Patterico's Pontifications

2/17/2017

Punching Back: Student Suspended For Filming Professor’s Anti-Trump Rant Threatens Lawsuit

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:30 am

A California college student was suspended for revealing his professor’s ridiculous bias. Now, he’s punching back.

Yesterday, Andrea Ruth covered the story of a student at Orange Coast College, Caleb O’Neil, who was suspended for filming his professor’s anti-Trump rant:

The professor, Professor Olga Perez Stable Cox, calls Trump a “white supremacist.” She calls Mike Pence “one of the most anti-gay humans in this country.” She calls Trump’s election an “act of terrorism.” She assumes all her students agree with her and says “we are the majority.” She says she will go over “coping skills.”

One of those coping skills includes adding 2-3 more words to her name. “From now on, instead of Professor Olga Perez Stable Cox, I will be called Professor Olga Perez Stable Suarez Humbert-Gillers Cox.” Nah, I made that last part up.

For publishing this rant, Mr. O’Neil was praised for revealing an issue with the faculty suspended for a semester and ordered to write an essay about why he was such a bad boy.

Guess what? Now he’s not only appealing the suspension, but threatening a lawsuit:

19-year-old Caleb O’Neil will appeal.

The Orange Coast College freshman said Wednesday that he [will] file a lawsuit in federal court if his appeal is rejected.

“We think this is a clear example of unconstitutional viewpoint discrimination that targets conservatives and we’re going to challenge it,” O’Neil’s attorney, Bill Becker, said at a news conference in Costa Mesa, according to CBS Los Angeles.

Becker told the Orange County Register that the suspension “is an attack by leftists in academia to protect the expressive rights of their radical instructors.”

These people need to market themselves better. Set up a fund. I’d donate.

To be fair, I’m not quite sure what the fella expected when he signed up for a “human sexuality class” taught by a Professor Olga Perez Farias-Smith Williams Gutierrez Walker Unstable Cox, or whatever her name is.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

334 Responses to “Punching Back: Student Suspended For Filming Professor’s Anti-Trump Rant Threatens Lawsuit”

  1. Nice post, Patterico. You got your mojo back.

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  2. If it was southern Florida, I’d probably expect some easy-on-the-eyes mild freakiness in a human sexuality course from a professor named as such. How about Olga Perez Stabilizes Cocks?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  3. social justice is a very very very malleable concept

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  4. Interesting. I can’t tell whether or not OCC is a state institution, but it looks like it is. Either way, shame on the institution for retaliating so harshly against a student for daring to record a professor giving such a lecture. It’s not a “rant,” really, but it’s certainly extremely biased.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  5. As a professor, or anyone engaged in public speech: if you’re not comfortable having it recorded by members of your intended audience, maybe you should rethink it.

    Of course, the school is saying that the real problem was posting it to the Internet. That raises additional interesting questions, but such posting would still seem to fall firmly within the parameters of speech.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  6. Greetings:

    Me, I’m thinking old Caleb might just have been looking forward to the semester project.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  7. Clear viewpoint discrimination and targeting anyone in the class that supported Trump, Prop 8, or anything that’s not far left.

    That the school went after him gives everyone at the institution the understanding that conservatives, Republicans and moderates are not welcome and they will be targeted if they dare to speak up.

    NJRob (7d79d6)

  8. My polo sci professor escaped certain death when he began his predictable April 30 1992 rant with both a slide stating that 70 percent of the LAPD lived in Simi Valley and that he dated a girl from Simi whose dad was a sergeant. Students actually appluded him, only for the fact he actually at one time had a girlfriend.

    urbanleftbehind (447ee5)

  9. College should be a safe space. Like at my old hometown community college a professor’s son drove cross country and murdered him during class with a crossbow.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  10. To be fair, I’m not quite sure what the fella expected when he signed up for a “human sexuality class” taught by a Professor Olga Gonzalez Perez Arrivaderci Martinez Tonto Pendejo Gallardo Chingate-Jones…

    Word.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  11. Of course, the school is saying that the real problem was posting it to the Internet. That raises additional interesting questions, but such posting would still seem to fall firmly within the parameters of speech.

    I teach at a public university in California, here is the relevant policy. It may or may not apply to the community college in question, but generally public universities in the state have similar policies.

    Except as provided herein, no business, association, agency, or individual, including a student, shall give, sell, or otherwise distribute to others or publish any recording made during any course presentation without the written consent of the instructor/presenter and the Chancellor. This policy is applicable to any recording in any medium, including handwritten or typed notes.

    There are reasonable exceptions, including one which allows students to directly exchange notes with other students taking the same course, for purposes of review, and for students with disabilities who use note-takers, etc.

    As a professor, I think there are good reasons, having nothing to do with any political controversy, for such a rule. Commercial outfits have, in the past, paid students to tape lectures or provide notes, which they then sell at a profit without consent of the university or professor whose intellectual property and work product is involved. Instructors have copyright to all instructional materials, including lectures, that they create.

    I don’t think political diatribes have any place in the classroom, but there are also good reasons why professors and teachers in general should not be subject to censorship. For starters, conservative viewpoints would be at much greater risk than progressive ones under any censorship regime. It’s not clear that the professor actually violated any rules, even though what she did was unprofessional in the extreme. The student should have complained to the professor, the professor’s chair or dean, or someone even further up the food chain.

    So we have a situation where the professor (probably) did not violate any rules, and the student did. The student should have been reminded of the rules about distributing course recordings and (assuming this was his first violation) warned not to do it again. Suspension seems entirely disproportionate and unreasonable under the circumstances.

    Dave (711345)

  12. “To be fair, I’m not quite sure what the fella expected when he signed up for a “human sexuality class” taught by a Professor Olga Perez Farias-Smith Williams Gutierrez Walker Unstable Cox………”

    This is said only half in jest because public education in my home state is now a joke but it wouldn’t surprise me if this swill was a required general ed course.

    I would be happy to donate to this cause.

    Also, a great instance to remind folks to read the excellent column by Stephen Miller about fighting back against the radicals at Santa Monica HS:

    http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=17409

    Harkin (00236c)

  13. Maybe the problem with California is that there are so many people and colleges that there’s an actual demand for these ridiculous courses and degree programs.

    For some reason, thinking about my old hometown, I thought of the last time I saw senator Craig Thomas. He was taking his boots off in front of me at the airport.

    The last time I saw senator John Borrasso he was pumping gas next to me at Mini Mart. He actually reattatched a ligament in my thumb that I banged up skiing.

    It’s just a totally different world between CA and NY. Mostly.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  14. Welcome back from double secret, Colonel! That is one archetype in the gold plate state, now they’ve replicated Loretta Sanchez as well, with Lorena Gonzalez Fletcher of AD80 (married to former white guy Republican office holder)

    urbanleftbehind (447ee5)

  15. Maybe the problem with California is that there are so many people and colleges that there’s an actual demand for these ridiculous courses and degree programs.

    University of Wyoming Women’s and Gender Studies Program

    Dave (711345)

  16. I was just trying to do some casual research about this journalism professor y’all may have heard of, Alann Steen. Apparently when he came back from his safe space in Lebanon he didn’t engage in any riots so I’m just going off memory. He came to the University of Wyoming and Casper College and kept a low profile. The last time he was filmed he was holding up a newspaper for proof of life.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  17. Urbanleftbehind

    You should look up what “polo” means in Polynesian. Right on point.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  18. Dave

    Let’s see if “Trump is a terrorist” is in the syllabus.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  19. Wyoming transgals gotta go somewhere Dave.

    My aunt, who is now a doctor, told my dad she was thinking of going to school in California. He said,”you mean the land of fruits and nuts?”. She said,” Yeah, and dates!”

    She ended up marrying a Jewish radiologist and converting. My dad said at the wedding, in deference to our family, they stomped on a beer can.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  20. If the professor was any kind of a writer she could follow up on Shelley’s hyperbolic poem. “The Rape of a Professor by Nonconsensual Recording and Distribution.”

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  21. I don’t think political diatribes have any place in the classroom, but there are also good reasons why professors and teachers in general should not be subject to censorship. For starters, conservative viewpoints would be at much greater risk than progressive ones under any censorship regime.

    There is nothing here that suggests a one-sided censorship regime is not in place. Suppose this had been a tape of a professor explaining is doubts about global warming. Or [perhaps] worse, the Holocaust. Do you think someone who recorded and post that would be similarly treated?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  22. Except as provided herein, no business, association, agency, or individual, including a student, shall give, sell, or otherwise distribute to others or publish any recording made during any course presentation without the written consent of the instructor/presenter and the Chancellor. This policy is applicable to any recording in any medium, including handwritten or typed notes.

    Well, Dave they can take that policy and shove it. I don’t care what their “policy” is my policy is if I’m paying for the course I’ll record anything I want. Plus, if I feel anything is not kosher to the course subject, such as a diatribe about Trump, God or American history I will publish it anywhere I choose. That’s my policy. If I tape a teacher sexually assaulting a student or badmouthing white people I will let the world know and in todays world my video can go viral before lunch.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  23. I read a different article yesterday or the day before — linked on Drudge I think — that had a bit more context than this one.

    O’Neil was an avowed Trump supporter during the campaign, wearing Trump hats and shirts around campus, and passing out campaign stuff to other students.

    The teacher in question knew he was a Trump supporter and there was some generally civil discussion of politics in class leading up to the election.

    After the election, O’Neil began to feel like comments in class on politics were aimed at him, and he felt like the diatribe that he videotaped was aimed at him.

    He claimed he took the video so he would have it as evidence of her political biases against him if she gave him a failing grade.

    But he admitted she gave him an A.

    I’m not sure why or how he released the video, but it went viral with nearly 500,000 views on YouTube, and I think he has opted to not teach the second semester as a result of the controversy.

    So, echoing Dave’s comment above, I suspect the basis for his suspension is not the “politics” of the dispute, but rather his violation of a pretty clear school policy of not recording professors in class. Maybe professors should be more careful about how they talk, but if a student breaks a rule — even with a good reason — you still pay the price for having broken the rule.

    The school is going to have to show that other students have been similarly disciplined for the same kind of violation — and I’m guessing they will. If so, then the suspension is content neutral.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  24. The policy prohibiting students from distributing notes or recordings of classroom activities, except to other students also taking the class, is entirely appropriate given what goes on in those rooms. A lot of otherwise unemployable people rely on our universities for their livelihood. If it was widely known what they did to earn their overly generous compensation and ironclad job security, public support for the colleges, and even a college education, would collapse. It is far better to consign two or three generations to ignorance, chasing the false promises of a college education paid for with enormous student loans. And if there was a downside to the secrecy imposed on the inner workings of our colleges, we can be sure that the graduates from these colleges would have trouble finding jobs. And eventually change would come. We all just want to live peaceful lives.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  25. Loretta Sanchez, ULB… teh shame of my high school alma mater. Teh same school that produced Congressman Ed Royce, who was a classmate.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  26. LOL Bob — I get you point. Just because the policy hides incompetence from public view doesn’t make it less of a policy.

    As an aside, I remember in college that the university ran a for-pay note-taking service. You could buy lecture notes for classes though the student store, which came in handy when you had a morning class that you missed or suffered thru while hungover.

    IIRC, the professor had to approve of the class being subject to the service, and for all I know the professor might have gotten a cut. Upperclassmen in the major were paid to sit in classes and take notes, and the notes were then transcribed into type written pages — this is long before laptops became standard on campus.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  27. If so, then the suspension is content neutral.

    A very insightful decision, Justice shipwreckedcrew. But as I said, apparently Caleb O’Neil has a “policy” also and since he’s the customer he is the boss.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  28. A speech stifling policy could protect proprietary speech, which is what a legitimate college rule might be – no spreading our education in competition with us!

    But posting evidence of teacher misconduct has to be protected by the first amendment.

    Hiding misconduct is not “content neutral.”

    Steven Malynn (d29fc3)

  29. Same response Rev — you are free to break their policy. They can’t stop you. But they don’t have to accept your money for the next semester and allow you to take classes.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  30. Posting it isn’t the problem.

    Recording it in violation of the school’s content neutral policy is the problem.

    If the policy is that there is no recording of Professors teaching engineering or biology, and that same policy applies to Professors teaching Human Sexuality, then turning on your phone to record is a violation of a content neutral policy, and subjects you to discipline as provided in the policy.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  31. #4 Leviticus, how is it remotely ambiguous about whether or not OCC is part of the state community college system?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  32. How can you tell from the name, “Orange Coast College”, whether it is a community college?

    nk (dbc370)

  33. Rev Hoagie

    Wasn’t the guy who filmed Rodney King on a field trip?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  34. It’s even ambiguous whether it’s in California or Florida.

    nk (dbc370)

  35. SWC, I can’t recall how many times I got to watch a Professor derive the Navier-Stokes equations. Which we dutifully copied into our notebooks. They all started with the same assumptions, their coordinate system was usually the Cartesian (x,y,z), and even the fluid velocity components were u,v,w. I rather doubt any of them felt that this was proprietary. In fact, I suspect they were regurgitating notes they made as students. It never occurred to any of us that disseminating these lectures would be a threat to the livelihood of the professors. Of course, this was before the days of the Xerox machine, laptops, printers, etc. And simply having a book doesn’t make one “educated” or knowledgable, so it’s hard to imagine how the availability of copies of books is really an issue.

    I do believe that underlying motive for such policies is fear of being found out.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  36. This gal could follow the lead of University of Toronto’s Jordan Peterson but she won’t because she’s a hack.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  37. Caleb O’Neil could be seen in Catch a Predator entrapment light but the perfessor drove eighty miles in the middle of the night with a six pack of beer and a box of condoms.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  38. Well, Dave they can take that policy and shove it. I don’t care what their “policy” is my policy is if I’m paying for the course I’ll record anything I want. Plus, if I feel anything is not kosher to the course subject, such as a diatribe about Trump, God or American history I will publish it anywhere I choose. That’s my policy. If I tape a teacher sexually assaulting a student or badmouthing white people I will let the world know and in todays world my video can go viral before lunch.

    So your position is that you are entitled to commit theft. Good for you. Presumably you also feel entitled to post pirated recordings of copyrighted films, music, copies of books, etc. Since you seem like a consumer, rather than a producer, of intellectual property, I suppose this unethical and sociopathic attitude is understandable.

    When you enroll at a university, or attend a concert, or a film, you consent to the associated terms and conditions. If you find those restrictions unacceptable, or unduly burdensome, you are free to not enroll, or attend, etc. But if you do, you should not complain when you are held accountable for violating the binding agreement you freely entered into.

    And if there was a downside to the secrecy imposed on the inner workings of our colleges,

    Now you are just lying and making sh*t up. Way to prove your moral superiority. There is no secrecy.

    Dave (0f268e)

  39. I don’t know if a blanket restriction on audio recording class sessions or lectures would survive intermediate scrutiny, even though content-neutral. Maybe it already has, in certain cases? I don’t know, but it’s an interesting question.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  40. The OCC is a checkin’ on down the line…

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  41. If the concern is the unauthorized sale of lecture recordings by students to third parties, it seems that a more narrowly tailored rule would make it a violation of campus policy for students to sell lecture recordings to third parties.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  42. How can you tell from the name, “Orange Coast College”, whether it is a community college?

    You can’t, but I grew up not far from OCC, and I assure you it’s a community college in Orange County, California :)

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  43. @39 Dave

    If the perfesser copyrights “Trump is a Terrorist” I will kick her a few bucks. I guess you protested in front of your local ABC affiliate after the Food Lion fiasco right?

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  44. Just throwing this out re “intellectual property”.

    Isn’t that belonging to the college who is paying the perfessor?

    Like a programmer working for Apple who develops something at work.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  45. Here’s the website for the lawyer and his organization. I don’t immediately see where their funding comes from, or how to make a contribution.

    http://freedomxlaw.com/

    Nels (c7152d)

  46. One thing seems fairly clear to me: making and/or distributing a recording of a college lecture is not “censorship.”

    Leviticus (efada1)

  47. “We need to record the class so we can see what’s in it.”- Nancy Pelosi

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  48. There is nothing here that suggests a one-sided censorship regime is not in place. Suppose this had been a tape of a professor explaining is doubts about global warming. Or [perhaps] worse, the Holocaust. Do you think someone who recorded and post that would be similarly treated?

    Well, when it happens we can see, and react accordingly. But simply asserting that the treatment would be different doesn’t make it so.

    As SWC says, it is a very relevant question in this case whether similarly severe discipline has been enforced against other violations of the copyright/recording policy in a content-neutral way. If not, then singling out this student is outrageous, and there should be consequences for the university and any administrators who behaved unethically.

    Dave (0f268e)

  49. Funding comes from: Deep Pockets California and lame totebag sales.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  50. Even if other students have been similarly disciplined under the same rule, it seems to be an open question as to whether or not the recording restriction (even if content neutral) (1) is within the constitutional power of government, (2) furthers an important or substantial governmental interest, (3) is unrelated to the suppression of free expression, (4) is narrowly tailored – no greater than necessary, or (5) leaves open ample opportunities of communication.

    (2) and (4) seem particularly difficult, unless I’m missing something (a possibility that I acknowledge).

    Leviticus (efada1)

  51. #33 nk, they invented this cool Google thing which easily enables people to find out stuff like, “is it a private college?” “or is it a state college?”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  52. Just throwing this out re “intellectual property”.

    Isn’t that belonging to the college who is paying the perfessor?

    Not where I work. The only exception is if “extraordinary university resources” were used to create it (e.g. data from a major university research facility, maybe a concert or performance recorded in a university amphitheater, I dunno).

    Dave (0f268e)

  53. Pinandpuller — it all depends on what are the terms of the contract under which the professor is employed. It might be that in some circumstances the content of the curricula in a class is a subject upon which the professor has done a great deal of scholarly work that is copyrighted. The professor and the school can agree that the professor’s copyright isn’t being abandoned by agreeing to teach on the subject. He’s “licensing” the school for the materials to be used in the class, but not for the materials to be used beyond the needs of the class.

    As Bob pointed out, however, there are some classes where the subject matter is simply empirical factual information that doesn’t belong to the teacher. I think the case for giving the teacher “intellectual property” rights over that subject matter is thin, but you always have to deal with the question of whether teaching techniques and strategies — beyond simply the subject matter — belong to the instructor.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  54. I’m going to guess that OCC is one of the public community colleges in California.

    Says so right there in the alphabetical listing of all public community colleges on the home page of the California Community Colleges Chancellor’s Office, which is a state agency.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  55. I love how Trump Supporter can backpedal from this

    #4 Leviticus, how is it remotely ambiguous about whether or not OCC is part of the state community college system?

    Cruz Supporter

    All the way to this

    they invented this cool Google thing which easily enables people to find out stuff like, “is it a private college?” “or is it a state college?”

    Cruz Supporter

    While retaining the obnoxious troll know-it-all tone.

    Trump Supporters are the #1 reason I will enjoy voting against Trump again.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  56. I don’t know if a blanket restriction on audio recording class sessions or lectures would survive intermediate scrutiny, even though content-neutral. Maybe it already has, in certain cases? I don’t know, but it’s an interesting question.

    Leviticus

    Back when I was in college I had a professor tell me I needed her permission to record her class because it was her intellectual property. I asked her to email me that request so I could follow up on that. she never did, and I kept recording the class. I didn’t do it to catch her in some weird politics, which I didn’t mind at all (in fact I enjoyed the diversity of thought). But she surely made the comment to me because it was pretty clear I was very conservative (much more than I am now) and she was very very lefty.

    Recording classes is useful because I don’t believe in taking notes in class (I prefer to be as engaged as possible) and I can listen while I drive.

    When someone makes an absurd request at their workplace, ask them to email the request to you. It’s a very effective way to get them to reconsider their point of view.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  57. Trump Supporters are the #1 reason I will enjoy voting against Trump again.

    And you’re the #1 reason they’ll enjoy watching him win again. You guys just don’t get it. Talk about a know-it-all tone. Sheesh.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  58. It’s a very effective way to get them to reconsider their point of view.

    You got that one right. The old “put it in writing” gets them every time.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  59. You are not quite sure what the fella expected when he signed up for a “human sexuality class”?

    Based on what my sons (who recently attended colleges) experienced he expected he had to take a mandatory “diversity” class to get his stinkin’ degree, and this one seemed like a good fit on his schedule. What he did not expect was that the professor he probably drew at random was three-sigma high on the moon-bat scale being off her meds in a way that in a sane society (but we are talking about a modern institution of higher education in America — excuse me AmeriKKKa) would have been put under psychiatric evaluation.

    Sea Writer (3674f1)

  60. “Trump is Hitler” seems to fall under parallel thinking and I wouldn’t sue Amy Shumer for stealing it.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  61. Caleb, your in Cantafordya.wake tfu, dude.

    mg (31009b)

  62. Dave, I made an assumption that we all agreed that “Trump is a terrorist” is not a part of the syllabus of a human sexuality class.

    Ergo, the student who felt the diatribe was directed at him viewed this as a political, not educational event. I know I would.

    Blanket restrictions on protected activity are suspect.

    Steven Malynn (d29fc3)

  63. ugh just tried to get through to southern cal AAA

    not happening

    those people are in a pickle

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  64. Dave

    Here’s some free advice from IANAL:

    Record your lectures and email them to yourself. It’s what I call a “sore loser’s copyright.”

    You’ll thank me someday.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  65. It is (obviously) the instructor’s presentation of the material which is copyright, not the subject matter itself (except in cases where the instructor actually *is* the original creator of the subject matter, which is rare but not unheard of).

    Also, any “course description materials” a professor creates become property of the university – in other words, if I create a course, the university is free to continue to offer that course after I leave, or no longer teach it myself, etc.

    Even if other students have been similarly disciplined under the same rule, it seems to be an open question as to whether or not the recording restriction (even if content neutral) (1) is within the constitutional power of government, (2) furthers an important or substantial governmental interest, (3) is unrelated to the suppression of free expression, (4) is narrowly tailored – no greater than necessary, or (5) leaves open ample opportunities of communication.

    (2) and (4) seem particularly difficult, unless I’m missing something (a possibility that I acknowledge).

    When it comes to an audio or video recording of a lecture, or verbatim copying of course materials not created by the students, aren’t we really just talking about a copyright issue?

    I agree that it seems less clear to my non-lawyerly mind on what basis a student’s own contemporaneous written notes would be protected from copying a priori. Here I assume it is the student’s agreement to abide by the university’s policies as a condition of enrollment that would prevent copying and dissemination. Unless done for commercial gain at the university’s expense, I agree it seems hard to justify or enforce.

    Let’s take an example though, suppose you pay Donald Trump to attend a series of seminars on how to get rich in the real estate market. You attend, and take extremely detailed and accurate notes. If you then publish those notes on the internet, making the substance of the course publicly available to anyone (for free), have you not harmed poor Donald and interfered with his access to compensation for his seminar-giving business? Admittedly, he is a private party, and not a state institution, but state institutions still have an interest in receiving tuition to cover the expense of offering and developing courses, etc.

    Dave (0f268e)

  66. Good thing Bang Bros offers a study at home course.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  67. Has California got islamized bees yet?

    That’s usually where stuff like that starts.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  68. Back in the day, yes – now its usually Florida, Texas or Virginia.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  69. BTW, if anyone is not aware of FIRE (the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education), they are a great resource on these matters, and often provide legal support for students or professors challenging illegal speech codes, content discrimination and other university excesses. They also review and rate the relevant policies of every major university for compliance with the constitution.

    They have a good article up on this incident which points out that, even setting aside the suspension, OCC has certainly violated the student’s rights by requiring him to apologize. It also says that the constitutionality of the anti-recording law is uncertain.

    Dave (0f268e)

  70. So your position is that you are entitled to commit theft. Good for you. Presumably you also feel entitled to post pirated recordings of copyrighted films, music, copies of books, etc. Since you seem like a consumer, rather than a producer, of intellectual property, I suppose this unethical and sociopathic attitude is understandable.

    Well, if he was posting the entire lecture, you might have a point. But, he only posted a snippet. Before you start accusing people of theft, you might want to investigate the concept of “fair use”. It too is part of copyright law.

    Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83)

  71. Well, if he was posting the entire lecture, you might have a point.

    The statement I responded to was:

    I don’t care what their “policy” is my policy is if I’m paying for the course I’ll record anything I want.

    I don’t see any limiting principle there.

    Dave (0f268e)

  72. OT, I know, but I decided to watch Trump’s Presser on C-SPAN. My favorite part is where Trump says that it is the Ninth circuit court that is in chaos because of an 80% overturn rate. Of course, it was a long slog to get through. I find it all almost surreal. IN fact, I am still mulling it in my head what I even mean by “it all.” Still, we are living in interesting times. No movie about the Trump Presidency could beat what we are witnessing first-hand.

    felipe (023cc9)

  73. Being totally serious, Dave, I can’t say I envy your lot. Chances are you or many of your fellow perfessors are teaching remedial High School courses.

    I spent a number of years substitute teaching K-12 and it’s a wonder I didn’t record for my protection.

    K-6th kids without daddies in the home swarmed me. It’s not a good position to be in unless you are Jesus Christ himself.

    And in case you think I can’t spell I’m referencing the comic strip Shoe.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  74. I heard the student was suspended for 2 semesters. Heard it on the radio when talking about this story.

    Dejectedhead (0c7c2f)

  75. VAPID TWAT UPDATE

    canadian prime minister justin mcdimples remains a vapid twat

    Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said on Friday that international economic policymakers should place more focus on creating economic growth which benefits a wider range of global society.

    Economic policy should be more concentrated on helping the middle classes and those striving to join it, he said in a speech in the German port city of Hamburg during a dinner for civic and business leaders.

    Trudeau gave an indirect warning that economic policy focused on small parts of society creates inequality leading to anger, which could fuel extremism.

    “Whether you’re a business or a government, it’s time to realize that this anger and anxiety we see washing over the world is coming from a very real place,” Trudeau said. “And it’s not going away.”

    further updates as this situation develops

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  76. President zoolander, just Doesnt impress neither does this fellow:
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-nato-defence-eu-idUKKBN15V31O

    narciso (d1f714)

  77. nato lol

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  78. oh god yes that one’s a keeper Mr.narciso

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  79. oops i forgot a space

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  80. Tax-payers have no idea where the money goes.
    https://www.usaid.gov

    mg (31009b)

  81. for the love of god

    trump harder people

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  82. Oh well, they’re stuck using an orc/uruquai army, should they get testy.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  83. Happyfeet

    Fun fact: Chaucer thought that twats were part of a nun’s vestments. This was literally years before vagina hats and dictionaries.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  84. Using brie cannons I guess, I remember coming across her work in a college paper:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4234538/France-vows-retaliation-Russia-meddles-elections.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  85. The French will be armed with cat-o-nine tails taking on the Roooskies.

    mg (31009b)

  86. Correction it was some else with a similar last name.

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. nuns lol

    pope francis, justin mcdimples, and jean-claude juncker walk into a bar

    pope francis says hi everyone I’m an unholy twat!

    and the bartender hands him a draft beer

    thanks-a-mundo! chirps Pope Francis

    justin was thirsty and says hihihi I am also an unholy twat

    and the bartender hands him a cherry sprite

    thanks-a-mundo! chirps justin mcdimples

    not wanting to be left out jean-claude juncker says bonjour i am very twatty as well!

    and the bartender hands him very rare single malt scotch

    just the one? says jean-claude

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  88. ugh *a* very rare single malt scotch i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. How can you tell from the name, “Orange Coast College”, whether it is a community college?

    Because I used to go there, back in the day, to use their IBM 370/155 APL timeshare room.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  90. hoodlum

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  91. If he lived in the CC’s district, he or his parents probably paid a millage in their property taxes or if he rented through his landlords’ taxes. Not so much of a hoodlum, but just trying to recoup his investment.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  92. oh.

    well that seems ok

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  93. the daily mail is truly the last bastion of what we used to call journalism

    oh great now i’m wistful

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  94. Took a peak at PJM…and a second look at Alexander Acosta. OMFG he’s a love child of Ted Cruz…And Elliot Spitzer.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  95. Yes there is some similarity, but he’s a lightning rod on two issues of note

    narciso (d1f714)

  96. @88

    Neet!

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  97. Layin’ Ted?

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  98. Justvthrowing this out there:

    http://www.thomaswictor.com/leakers-beware

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. And before there was Bernie…http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2017/02/14/kucinich-pins-flynn-leak-on-intel-community-warns-another-cold-war.html,

    With their bench being so thin and all, not so far fetched they trot this guy out again.

    urbanleftbehind (9a1bf0)

  100. Well unlike doc Brown, Kucinich has been perceptive on issues like Libya and overbearing govt surveilance well more thsnsay Howard yeRgh dean

    narciso (af2f86)

  101. Hey lighten up. Everybody has to be somewhere. This box of rocks is in a classroom.

    Cross Lucas (57ef7b)

  102. What about this business of making the student write an “apology” essay? Is that part of the policy?

    O’neil attorney’s probably has something that potentially complicates the university’s position, possibly instances where student who committed similar violations were not suspended. I’m almost certain that there are videos of lectures from CA public colleges that are posted on Youtube without written permission from anyone.

    lee (55777a)

  103. I don’t think violations they aren’t aware of, or where the professor being taped doesn’t object, are relevant.

    Even if the suspension is atypical, the university might still have a colorable argument that it was appropriate in the specific circumstances of this incident.

    The university might justify the suspension on the basis that the posting was done with malice toward the professor, intending to intimidate or subject her to harassment, and/or recklessly placing her safety in danger (according to police, she did receive threats of various sorts as a result).

    Another angle could be that furtive recording in a class dealing with sexuality would have a chilling effect on students’ willingness to discuss sensitive personal matters and thereby interfere with some of the course’s learning objectives.

    Dave (711345)

  104. “Another angle could be that furtive recording in a class dealing with sexuality would have a chilling effect on students’ willingness to discuss sensitive personal matters and thereby interfere with some of the course’s learning objectives.”

    Sadomasochists, fetishists, onanists hardest hit.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  105. Dave, just stop.

    Your continued excusing of leftist intimidation and indoctrination is exhausting. We know the reason for the suspension. Pretending there is any legitimacy to it is just a fairy tale.

    Get a grip.

    NJRob (43d957)

  106. Actually, I understand Dave’s frustration. I feel kind of cheated by this post, too. I clicked on the video to check out the lady’s “bi ass” and saw nothing of the sort. No girl-boy-girl threesome, not even an upskirt Marilyn Monroe style over a sidewalk grate. Just some hectoring harridan. Oh, well.

    It is constitutional to forbid electronically recording someone without their permission. Even if they are in a public place. The First Amendment question is peripheral, and it only affects the remedy. In the Hulk Hogan case (I know, just go with it), it was an unconstitutional prior restraint to keep Gawker from showing the video, but it was constitutional for the jury to award him 150 gazillion simoleons.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. Nk,

    If we pretend schools accepting government financial aid means they must follow title IX and other government regulations, don’t try and pretend they can ignore the 1st Amendment.

    NJRob (a0a2c6)

  108. ^^^THAT^^^ is a great point, NJRob.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  109. Transpose “courtroom” for “classroom”, for just one example, and you’ll see what I’m talking about, if you’ve ever been to court. No cameras or tape recorders allowed at all. There is no First Amendment right to electronically record someone, audio or video. The First Amendment kicks in when you publish it.

    And this is a state institution, a governmental entity, so the First Amendment applies to it, Title IX or not. My argument is that it is not a violation of students’ First Amendment rights to forbid them to electronically record their classes. It may be a violation of their First Amendment rights to prevent them from, or punish them for, publishing it.

    nk (dbc370)

  110. why does a filthy 86-year-old anti-semite like James Baker continue to labor under the delusion that he’s somehow a respectable person

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  111. Maybe he’s a paid heel so that Trump Inc. flips him off and demonstrates his J bonafides.

    urbanleftbehind (5e48ab)

  112. wheels within wheels

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  113. R.I.H. blind sheik

    urbanleftbehind (5e48ab)

  114. At what age should old people just sit by the fireplace and gum their mush and let young people look after the world since they’re the ones that will be living in it?

    nk (dbc370)

  115. I wonder what the left wingers who are so opposed to taping college lectures would have to say about the taping of a California Highway Patrolman who might be engaged in an incident similar to the infamous Rodney King incident.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  116. Is there a rule against taping California Highway Patrolmen who might be engaged in an incident similar to the infamous Rodney King incident?

    nk (dbc370)

  117. By the way, The Washington Post‘s Joshua Prager (nephew of Dennis Prager) is reporting that Norma McCorvey has passed away at age 69.
    She was “Jane Roe” in Roe V Wade.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  118. #118 nk, I don’t know if there’s a “rule.”
    I’m just interested in what the left wingers who oppose taping a lecture at a state college would have to say about it, that’s all.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  119. Did I waste my Rot in He’ll too soon?

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  120. old people are good just not loathsome anti-semitic princeton filth like James Baker and Meghan’s deplorably cowardly (and stupid) daddy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  121. Are you talking about the Politico interview? That was like twelve days ago, dude. And he said that he voted for Trump.

    nk (dbc370)

  122. nonono not about that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  123. Don’t keep me in suspense.

    nk (dbc370)

  124. even low-energy elitist loser like Jeb shies away from James Baker and his rabid anti-jewish bigotry

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  125. even *a* low-energy elitist loser like Jeb i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  126. Norma McCorvey has passed away at age 69

    Reunited with her baby at last!

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  127. No, the baby was born. It was her third one. Thankfully, she turned lesbian after that and didn’t have any more.

    nk (dbc370)

  128. someone was gonna play the part of jane it just happened to be our now-dead friend Norma

    people forget all the evil and suffering the hideously fascist abortion ban did on america

    but Norma understood

    good ole Norma yes yes yes

    then she became a shameless lifeydoodle the end

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  129. Mootness in the courts does not mean what you think it means, if the black-robed junta wants to amend the Constitution.

    nk (dbc370)

  130. they’re very whimsical

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  131. Milo Yiannopoulos to deliver CPAC keynote

    and it will be so good

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  132. nk states that it is against the law to record anyone without their permission, at least that is what I thought he said, and if so, the fellow shouldn’t have recorded the professor

    On the other hand, while I understand the intellectual property issues recording class content, does the argument that what was being recorded was not class subject matter, but a partisan political opinion?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  133. was he getting his money’s worth while the deranged professor worked out her issues

    i think they owe him a refund

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  134. I believe McCovey became an outspoken critic of abortion and said that she didn’t really understand the part she played in it being legalized. idk

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  135. Willie McCovey? Now there was a hitter!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  136. I read her Wikipedia entry. She seems like the kind of person who would not understand a lot of things. Buck v. Bell could also have been about her.

    nk (dbc370)

  137. MD, I did not say that it is against the law to record someone without their permission. I said it can be, Constitutionally, against the law to record someone without their permission. Or without a warrant, eh? If such a law has been enacted.

    nk (dbc370)

  138. the sleazy hyper-expensive and deeply homosexual NSA records EVERYBODY without their permission then they use what they learn to undermine American democracy

    maybe that’s the exception that proves the rule

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  139. It is against the law in Cali, I think. But I don’t know if it only applies to a private conversation or not. I suspect it does and also think a “reasonable expectation of privacy” may apply.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  140. @117 Cruz Supporter

    Turns out most people support cops giving public lectures when they don’t use their fists and cop gear.

    If you want to spend a few hours watching videos check out subreddits r/amifreetogo and r/badcopnodonut.

    California has a couple of extra credit courses because they have agricultural checkpoints that some folks think is a 4th Am violation. They also have, or had, ICE or Homeland Security checkpoints as many as a hundred miles inland from the border.

    There are some people that outfit their cars like Google streetview and drive thru checkpoints without answering questions.

    A lot of people do 1st Am audits and film in front of police stations and federal buildings.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  141. I realize that taping a private conversation without the second party’s consent (especially over the telephone) is covered by statutes, but a college lecture at a state college to an audience of 30, 100, or 200 students is not exactly a “private” conversation even by the most elastic definitions.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  142. NK

    One of my perfessors thought I was nuts when I brought a court reporter and a sketch artist to class.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  143. norma mccovey was never ready for her close-up, mr de mille

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  144. #118 nk, I don’t know if there’s a “rule.”
    I’m just interested in what the left wingers who oppose taping a lecture at a state college would have to say about it, that’s all.

    California’s taping law does not apply in public places, or to government proceedings.

    California Penal Code Section 632:

    ( c ) The term “confidential communication” includes any communication carried on in circumstances as may reasonably indicate that any party to the communication desires it to be confined to the parties thereto, but excludes a communication made in a public gathering or in any legislative, judicial, executive or administrative proceeding open to the public, or in any other circumstance in which the parties to the communication may reasonably expect that the communication may be overheard or recorded.

    Courts apparently have their own set of rules.

    Dave (711345)

  145. A lot of states, like Tennessee, are looking at “free” tuition.

    I wonder what happens when a kid gets suspended for something like this. Can he enroll for “free” in another school while it gets sorted out?

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  146. This fellow who was recently dismissed from the nsc, probablybwS the source of the pena nieto leak.
    cisa.ndu.edu/About/Faculty-and-Staff/Article-View/Article/566868/craig-e-deare-phd

    Just like ragsdale the dismissed customs head was on the distribution of the ‘national guard’ memo.

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. I’m just going to call my friend during class and let him listen in. He lives in a one party state.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  148. Where was human sexuality 101 when Renquist was in school?

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  149. I’m just going to call my friend during class and let him listen in. He lives in a one party state.

    Unlawful if your class is in California (without instructor’s consent):


    CEC 78907

    The use by any person, including a student, of any electronic listening or recording device in any classroom without the prior consent of the instructor is prohibited, except as necessary to provide reasonable auxiliary aids and academic adjustments to disabled students.  Any person, other than a student, who willfully violates this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

    Any student violating this section shall be subject to appropriate disciplinary action.

    Dave (711345)

  150. Norma Jean McCovey gonna ‘bortion me.

    Makes for edgy Thanksgiving conversations.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  151. lol what kind of cheesedick sends his kid to college in failfornia

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  152. oopers *failifornia* i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  153. Filming people without their consent reminds me of that old joke.

    How do you tell the difference between a mushroom and a toadstool?

    Sneak a bite when nobody is looking.

    Filming you without permission is gonna hurt me more than it hurts you is what I’m saying.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  154. happyfeet is clearly a drop-out from Trump University…

    Dave (711345)

  155. Dave

    I’m gonna make friends with a diplomat’s kid. Or Julian Assange.

    Haven’t you ever watched Burn Notice?

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  156. But do you know who doesn’t mind being video-recorded while giving a lecture?

    I’ll give you a hint, his rally is starting now and you can watch it live on Youtube.

    Daryl Herbert (7be116)

  157. California should make the conservative kids wear red shirts like Star Trek so we would know which ones aren’t going to make it to the end of the course.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  158. dave is clearly a drop-out from humboldt state
    or was it berkeley
    i can’t remember
    and probably neither can he

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  159. happyfeet is clearly a drop-out from Trump University…

    am not take it back

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  160. But do you know who doesn’t mind being video-recorded while giving a lecture?

    I’ll give you a hint, his rally is starting now and you can watch it live on Youtube.

    Ah yes, a campaign rally 44 months before the election.

    Remember back in 2011, when it was a scandal for Obama to campaign 13 months before an election?

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/126660163775115265

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/128896258684354560

    Dave (711345)

  161. One recalls, in the 80s at dartmouth, when ingraham and dsouza were on the review. There was a premature sjw professor, willie Jones, who issued haranges rather than lectures in music which was the ostensible subject

    narciso (d1f714)

  162. Hey mom, can you remember what year I was born?

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  163. I never took music depreciation.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  164. Narciso

    How did we ever get to a point where the genders outnumber the key signatures or even the Modes?

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  165. dave, president mr donald is having a rally in florida in order to provoke you
    it worked

    winning

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  166. Don’t know I had a very learned lefty professor, who still imparted a fair bit of info, on subjects like con law, now this Olga person, a paisans unfortunately Doesnt have a clue and couldn’t find one.

    narciso (d1f714)

  167. You’ve got to admit, the man knows how to make an entrance.

    Daryl Herbert (7be116)

  168. dave, president mr donald is having a rally in florida in order to provoke you
    it worked

    winning

    Nuh uh.

    Dave (711345)

  169. Did Trump just throw up a black power salute?

    And then he lingered in front of the “Hillary for Prison” sign for no particular reason?

    He is the ultimate troll…

    Daryl Herbert (7be116)

  170. Skynst, matrix, ultron, blade runner, it never works out.

    narciso (d1f714)

  171. the blind sheikh died in prison
    love it

    since he’s blind he probably won’t be able to see how beautiful the 72 virgins are

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  172. Reuters: FBI conducting three separate probes into Russian intervention in the presidential election

    This counterintelligence inquiry includes but is not limited to examination of financial transactions by Russian individuals and companies who are believed to have links to Trump associates. The transactions under scrutiny involve investments by Russians in overseas entities that appear to have been undertaken through middlemen and front companies, two people briefed on the probe said.

    The people who spoke to Reuters also corroborated a Tuesday New York Times report that Americans with ties to Trump or his campaign had repeated contacts with current and former Russian intelligence officers before the November election. Those alleged contacts are among the topics of the FBI counterintelligence investigation.

    I’m sure they were just talking about sports. I hear Russian intelligence agents are huge sports fans.

    Dave (711345)

  173. I’m sure they were just talking about sports. I hear Russian intelligence agents are huge sports fans.

    They were inquiring as to whether or not the Russians would be “donating” as much to the Trump Foundation as they did to the Clinton Foundation and if the quid pro quo would remain the same as the Clintons. I guess when the Clintons and Obamas are out of the loop it becomes time to take it public. Thank god for the Forth Estate. Or are they a fifth column?

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  174. John McCain stands up for the free press

    “I hate the press,” the Arizona Republican sarcastically told NBC News’ Chuck Todd on “Meet the Press.” “I hate you especially. But the fact is we need you. We need a free press. We must have it. It’s vital.”
    But he continued, “If you want to preserve — I’m very serious now — if you want to preserve democracy as we know it, you have to have a free and many times adversarial press,” McCain said in the interview. “And without it, I am afraid that we would lose so much of our individual liberties over time. That’s how dictators get started.”

    Dave (711345)

  175. 177 — McCain really irks me sometimes. Remember that during the Bush Presidency, he was the press’ favorite Republican because he was always so willing to criticize the Administration. I’m not faulting him for that — I think its important when a member of the party in power is willing to speak out about things they find troubling about how the party in power is conducting business.

    But then he ran for Pres. in 2008, and the press simply buried him in crap in order to advance the left wing Valhalla of the First Black President.

    The press then ignores the anything that reflects poorly on the First Black President, and does everything it can to help elect the First Woman President.

    Now that they have failed, they are back to tearing down a GOP President again — same playbook as against Bush 43 — and McCain is back to being the press’s favorite Republican because he’s good for a quote knocking the occupant of the WH.

    He should stop for a moment to consider, given how he was treated by the press when he was a candidate, what he thinks the press would be doing to him right now if he was in the WH rather than Trump, and how he would react if a putative ally was to play along with the efforts of the press to destroy his administration.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  176. The wicked flee when no man pursueth: but the righteous are bold as a lion.

    He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

    Don’t look at me is one of the first orders recruits receive at boot camp. Are California campi seeking to indoctrinate an army? Why would they be doing that?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  177. meghan’s coward daddy knows two things:

    #1 be deferential to the press

    #2 watch the teeth

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  178. I like Bible verses in the King James version with confesseths and forsakeths.

    Just seems like you get more bang for your buck in the collection plate.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  179. The press also hung Hillary out to dry when she was running against Obama.

    Nobody is claiming the press is perfect, or close to it, or suggesting that the press shouldn’t, itself, be subject to honest criticism.

    Trump’s position, on the other hand, is that any and every criticism of him is – ipso facto – a malicious lie, incapable of containing even a shred of truth.

    Dave (711345)

  180. he needs to stick to his guns

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  181. 1937: paperhanger speech rallies.
    2017: planehanger speech rallies.

    History rhymes.

    “When der Fuehrer brags and lies and rants and raves; We go Heil! Heil! And work into our graves…” – Spike Jones ‘Der Fuehrer’s Face’ 1943

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  182. No, shipwrecked. They buried his runningmate. and he stood by like a basr
    Enghi. That reuters report seems like more like fake news

    narciso (d1f714)

  183. lol here’s a comment from over at the “ace of spades” web blog site on the internet

    290 @233 Spicer: Petraus is out.
    ——————
    Good. He screwed up when he let whatsername see classified stuff. The last thing we need right now is to give the Left another excuse to try and ignore Hillary’s problems with classified materials.
    Posted by: junior at February 18, 2017 06:43 PM (nsZ+m)

    Yup…screw him. He needs to go away and figure out how he can get more fruit salad on the back of his dress uniform since he ran out of room on the front.

    Maybe he can get a ribbon for “meritorious service while under his underling while giving away Army classified information” or some such.

    Posted by: Hairyback Guy at February 18, 2017 06:51 PM (5VlCp)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  184. Every one of what passes for late night talk show hosts feature lengthy segments on President Trump’s press conference.

    Jimmy Kimmel. Trevor Noah. Seth Meyers. Steve Colbert. Bill Mahr.

    Any of these sons of [edit]s ever have Obama as the target of their little jokes and funnies?
    All on the same day? Ever?

    President Trump – resetting the funny bones on the entire stable of network frauds and hypocrites in one operation. DJT should send them a bill for the surgery.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  185. The press gave Obama an 8 year tongue bath, dave, who the fuq do you think you’re kidding? The media has lost their sh*t for the last several months, and can’t control their emotions. They have lost even the last gossamer thread of credibility.

    Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e)

  186. Narciso

    Even the radicals realize you have to know the rules before you can overthrow them.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  187. In my mind I can’t feature a class of young adults signing up for the sex class meshing with an expectation of privacy.

    Because they’re so shy of their private life and such, they volunteer to discuss it with 30 or 40 strangers?

    Nope.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  188. I’ve always wondered how sex education will lead to less babies but gun education will lead to more shootings.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  189. It’s like ever since they brought sex ed into schools and got rid of God and guns (ROTC rifle range, gun racks in trucks) pregnancies and shootings have gone up.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  190. Colonel Haiku

    It’s like the press has been enjoying their eight year cruise and suddenly they hit an iceberg.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  191. Or how Joe Camel beer cozies will lead to more children smoking, but “[Edit] the Police” rap music won’t lead to more childhood suicide by cop.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  192. I don’t know how it’s going in Southern California, but up here in Jefferson the ARKstorm hasn’t lived up to billing.

    Sunshine and billowing clouds.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  193. Caleb’s gofundme page

    https://www.gofundme.com/standwithcaleb?mc_cid=2fef655f01&mc_eid=0fc693c56b

    Scott Peotter (81f636) — 2/18/2017 @ 4:29 pm

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  194. Its a shame, he would otherwise have been a good choice:
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/opinion/article132895649.html

    narciso (d1f714)

  195. hiring all these ex-military weirdos never ends well

    *especially* for republican presidents

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  196. The main difference between sex and guns is if I accidentally kill my girlfriend a doctor won’t help me dispose of the body.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  197. What’s striking is none of those folk, tiger, could come up with a genuinely funny movement.

    narciso (d1f714)

  198. Or how not repairing dams won’t lead to more floods.

    Too soon?

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  199. He’s a central figure in former Senate Armed Services Committee Chair Carl Levin’s request for a Department of Defense inspector general’s investigation into what role the U.S. Southern Command’s William Perry Center for Hemispheric Defense Studies played in the 2009 military coup in Honduras. The allegation was that senior staff at the center had conspired to cover up the center’s support in Washington for the 2009 coup, which saw the Honduran military literally remove President Manuel Zelaya from power and fly him in his pajamas to Panama. CIA officers who discovered the center’s support for the coup plotters were said to be furious.

    Deare and I were both professors at the center, and Deare was present for at least one of the meetings where the cover-up was discussed. More than once, I had been ordered to leave the meetings when the discussions began. Deare previously had been a deputy commander of the Defense Intelligence Agency’s Joint Counterintelligence Operations Element in Honduras.

    Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/opinion/article132895649.html#storylink=cpy

    Isn’t that the guy who wanted to rewrite the constitution so he could legally be President for life in Honduras?
    Then the Supreme Court ordered his arrest, causing Obama (literally Zelaya’s only fan outside of socialist dictators) to get nervous the same type of direct justice might happen to him?

    Yeah. It’s that guy.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  200. I don’t need a dead girlfriend right now. I’m going to college. I’m going to be somebody.

    Pinandpuller (943099)

  201. good good

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  202. Yes he would have been a good choice, but then like the blonde patina who had to express her feelings for Jason miller, so to speak, he talked himself outvof a job.

    narciso (d1f714)

  203. The dam was fine. Even the emergency spillway they thought might break up (it was the cause of all the evacuations) is just a huge chunk of concrete, way more than enough to hold a wading pool depth (5 feet deep behind the spillway) finger of lake back.

    The sheriff panicked. That’s his job. He panicked but with a good hearted reason behind it.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  204. The good thing about it is California gained like six millions new armchair experts in dam hydrology

    Six or seven. Six at least. Only took two weeks.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  205. Don’t look at me. I can’t even spell hydraulics.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  206. Yes but have they repaired the spillway for the next time, the lake overflows, just like the levees on ponchartrain

    narciso (d1f714)

  207. narciso, the broken part is the reason why the lake and levees didn’t overflow.

    It’s kind of like a leak in your garden hose. Just cut off the broken end and keep watering the flowers. Still reaches.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  208. You can’t say they overreacted on the emergency spillway if they’ve been pouring tons of boulders and concrete on it since the evacuation last Sunday.

    They still are plenty nervous, and for good reason.

    Harkin (00236c)

  209. You missed the part where I became an honorary expert in hydraulics.

    Say what’s the legal ruling on expectations of privacy of my whacked out blog comments?

    Do I have a case counselor?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  210. they did a lot of cnn anderson cooper fake news about the dam huh

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  211. Well they had to cover the Emmy first, pikachu, this last episode of the expanse waactoo hard to follow, and in the magicians, they killed off Alice (you bastards)

    narciso (d1f714)

  212. ikes spoilers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  213. Pinandpuller (943099) — 2/18/2017 @ 4:29 pm

    Yes, P&P. Yes, indeed.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  214. That happened in the previous episode, she was the only sympathetic character, even though she went all willow, in the final scene.

    narciso (d1f714)

  215. i’m behind on everything

    haven’t been feeling very viewy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  216. The FBI has just discovered that Omar Mateen is a Muslim!

    Can we really count on them to drop all of their serious investigations into the Clinton Foundation so they can find out if the very Russians who were unimpressed with Secretary of State Hillary’s reset button were actually cheering for The Mr Donald to defeat her?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  217. Expectation of privacy has nothing to do with it. What are the terms of your license with Patterico to be here?

    nk (dbc370)

  218. Omar Mateen — who was born in Queens, a few miles away from Donald Trump’s childhood home – fake news propaganda slut Jon Schwarz

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  219. That’s like saying El shukrijumah was from Trinidad, yes but that not nearly the entire story, his father from the kingdom worked forvthe late sheikh, while auditing courses in my fmr neck of the woods, he was hanging out with the likes of atta and Jose padilla (aka abdullah muhajir)

    narciso (d1f714)

  220. Submitted:

    1. 75% of college students do not belong in college — they are a waste of space.
    2. 75% of college professors should find productive jobs.
    3. All schools, including colleges and universities, act in loco parentis, within the scope of their traditional responsibilities, and are entitled to the same privileges and immunities vis a vis their students as the students’ parents.
    4. The American educational system sucks monkey turds and it’s not a new thing but goes back to at least the 1970s.

    nk (dbc370)

  221. What are the terms of your license with Patterico to be here?

    nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2017 @ 6:22 pm

    He likes me, but doesn’t find me very persuasive.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  222. Kind of a virtual handshake really.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  223. 222.
    Trump’s EO would have done nothing to inconvenience Mateen sr or jr, Padilla, Atta, the Boston bombers, or the San Bernardino couple.

    Which is my objection to it. It’s mostly Kabuki. Sound and fury, signifying nothing. Nada. Nichts. If you want to make a grand gesture, at least do one that matches some sort of reality.

    kishnevi (10c258)

  224. anything what keeps a bunch of unacculturated don’t-wanna-work welfare cases with terrorist/rapist tendencies out of the country is pretty goshdarn spiffy i think

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  225. What? He’s barring the Australians, now?

    nk (dbc370)

  226. Mr Feets, as a refugee from a dysfunctional political entity, I would think you would have more sympathy for their plight

    kishnevi (10c258)

  227. Of course you did land in another dysfunctional political entity.

    kishnevi (10c258)

  228. i did once before but I no longer have the sympathetic feelings

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  229. i’m not angry just disappointed

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  230. Really she’s pulling the battered wife syndrome excuse now, for cereal?

    narciso (d1f714)

  231. Expectation of privacy has nothing to do with it.

    nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2017 @ 6:22 pm

    We’re really close to the same position on this topic, I have a feeling.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  232. Oh come on now!

    ttps://mobile.twitter.com/alimhaider/status/833139772956737536/photo/1

    narciso (d1f714)

  233. #223 nk, you’re absolutely right that a majority of college students don’t belong in college. It takes all kinds to make the world go ’round, and we need tradesmen.

    Welders make a good living. So do electricians and plumbers. They make a helluva lot more than English majors. Plus, they don’t ever have to memorize a Shakespeare soliloquy! (Not that colleges teach Shakespeare anymore, mind you.)

    There’s just been this push over past decades (especially with affirmative action) to send every kid to college whether or not he/she is academically inclined.

    Ten years from now, who the heck are we going to call when our toilet is stopped up?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  234. The tag Kline, was norma mcccorcey help bring about abortion, but her pastor made her repent.

    narciso (d1f714)

  235. I’m going to be somebody.
    Pinandpuller (943099) — 2/18/2017 @ 5:17 pm

    If somebody you aren’t now, comment now how do you? Education not make you great, the wisdom to use it wisely does!

    Yoda jr (310909)

  236. Ten years from now, who the heck are we going to call when our toilet is stopped up?
    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 2/18/2017 @ 7:26 pm

    Who you gonna call? TURDBUSTERS!

    Yoda jr (310909)

  237. if the bowl is full, and it don’t smell good,

    who you gonna call?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  238. Heeheeheeheeheee, love the sign on the trailer I do! “Poo Poo Guru”

    Yoda jr (310909)

  239. Dang it, somebody beat me to the name!

    Yoda jr (310909)

  240. Milo’s the first one to call them every morning, thinking it’s about his chute. I heard CPAC is thinking of reneging their offer on keynote.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  241. Wow, who let the junior high students into the room? (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  242. in my defense, YODA made me do it!

    papertiger (c8116c)

  243. Strikingly every country in the region are (reacted) so I think dome reciprocity is due.

    babalublog.com/2017/02/18/cubans-the-migrants-that-liberals-love-to-deport/#comments

    narciso (d1f714)

  244. He’s very persuasive.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  245. But for a President who weekends in WPB, don’t you think he should take the party to the ocean side of A1A, sign an EO of reinstatement and greet a raft full of exiles?

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  246. Nordstrom found a product line to fill the shelves in wake of pulling the Ivanka Trump stuff.

    Hillary’s new perfume . [YouTube]

    papertiger (c8116c)

  247. Rip, michael novak

    narciso (d1f714)

  248. Gene Huber – “Deplorable Man of the Year”

    mg (31009b)

  249. 251 – papertiger
    rofl, dogs think I lost it.

    mg (31009b)

  250. Smells like pee, I heard.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  251. yet another squirrelly military dude flames out

    what’s wrong with these people

    this one apparently came with a lot of red flags

    A self-described expert on Mexico, Deare comes to the post with a checkered record of support for and involvement with some of the Western Hemisphere’s most notorious human-rights abusers.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  252. Michael Novak was the bomb.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  253. Thank God she’s not a Rooooski!

    mg (31009b)

  254. Yes but he wasn’t crazy about Chavez his Tommy boy successor Maduro, like Castro fanboi Ben Rhodes, so he tupolev’d* himself out of some future coup gigs
    * named after the sub captain in red october who torpedoed his own boat, while ursuing ramius.

    narciso (be3ad8)

  255. She could be a pre-SSR breakup spawn from when they had agents all over.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  256. When is full Narciso glossary being published?

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  257. dave, i think it’s safe to say that president mr donald owns your free time

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  258. It would be a long list indeed.

    narciso (be3ad8)

  259. nk, thank you for correcting me

    What was that about a military coup in Honduras?? I thought Honduras had a successful defense of their constitution by the combination of the judiciary,legislature, and military
    Or am I confused about something, once again

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  260. Martin Andersen, snorfle, now Mexico is no slouch when it comes to killing their dissident population, the chds is the successor to the school of the Americas (boo)

    narciso (be3ad8)

  261. When lefties don’t get their way, they call it a coup, md, soft or hard coup, btw Obama got back at plucky little honduras with thecfast and furious,spinoff, castaway

    narciso (be3ad8)

  262. Firmenich w famous for directing the kidnapping of magnate jorge born, which turned out better than his counterpart Hans schleyer some years later.

    narciso (be3ad8)

  263. papertiger

    Because of panic Great White and The Who killed more people than all of my guns.

    Too soon?

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  264. papertiger

    Didn’t the Ninth Circuit rule that the dam had no right to retain Lake Oroville?

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  265. Shirley (i’ m serious This time) leaves out the execution of fmrgeneral and president aramburu.

    narciso (be3ad8)

  266. I can see Omar Mateen from my slumlord millionaire kingdom!

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  267. Most kids don’t belong in college and most Syrian refugees don’t belong in Idaho etc.

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  268. rubber rooms for snow-flakes will be the new norm

    mg (31009b)

  269. You’re killing it Pin.

    Special mention for #272.

    Wish I’d said it.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  270. They should have had Michael Novak go on Crossfire and argue with himself.

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  271. @264 urbanleftbehind

    You and Kitty Kelly can do an unauthorized glossary.

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  272. The montoneros were like the weatherman on mate, the local argentine drink, the military down there like many countriescinn Latin America and Asia does practice torture, that s how they roll

    narciso (9d05f0)

  273. #278 Pinandpuller, now CNN will just have to find a guy named “Bob Kinsley”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  274. No tucker’s been slicing like a Hindu knife, he doesn’t need an equal.

    narciso (9d05f0)

  275. Maybe O’Neil should have said he considers himself to have a learning difficulty and that’s why he recorded the class.

    Peter B (cda406)

  276. Maybe O’Neil should have said he considers himself to have a learning difficulty and that’s why he recorded the class.

    Dumb idea. Lying and attempting to falsely claim a disability would likely get him suspended for another term, or expelled outright.

    In any event, the University has a Disabilities Office that certifies and handles accommodations for disabilities. He would have needed to file paperwork, including a doctor’s letter, ahead of time.

    Oh, and his excuse for posting it online would be…?

    Dave (711345)

  277. I didn’t record the class, my service dog did lol.

    So I looked at the picture of the guy hugging Trump and it didn’t look nearly as bad as the picture of John McCain trying to pass W’s guard.

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  278. @277 papertiger

    Fair use if you like. I’ve had a lot of time on my hands since they closed the rhinestone mines (credit Dennis Miller).

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  279. Dave

    I used to know this guy who had a “so-called” slip and fall at a LOF shop he worked at. Naturally he got some hot workman’s comp action. Somehow he managed to convince a doctor to give him, at about age 27, a 5% disability. It was enough to get him a handicap placard to hang from his mirror.

    What’s funny about that is that after workman’s comp ran out he got a job at an oil repackaging warehouse. His job was to climb up on train tankers and pump the oil out. It was really inspiring watching him overcome his disability like that.

    God blessed him later with a baby. Well, I mean God blessed his wife. You see, this guy had a vasectomy. God’s funny that way.

    Pinandpuller (4ab6ee)

  280. Pinandpuller-
    standing ovation, sir.
    laughing is good for me.

    mg (31009b)

  281. I was going to chime in on this thread with a defense of the no-recording policy, but Dave has (very ably) beaten me to it.

    I would like to add something to what shipwreckedcrew said at #54:

    there are some classes where the subject matter is simply empirical factual information that doesn’t belong to the teacher. I think the case for giving the teacher “intellectual property” rights over that subject matter is thin, but you always have to deal with the question of whether teaching techniques and strategies — beyond simply the subject matter — belong to the instructor.

    I taught such a class — several such classes, actually — at an undergraduate level at a university. The teacher does have intellectual property rights, but usually not over the subject matter — unless it’s original research. If I’m teaching a university class on Jane Austen, obviously, all her books are in the public domain, and anyone who wanted to could read them for free on Project Gutenberg. Or if anyone wanted to read commentaries on Austen’s work that I cited in the course of my lectures, they are free to buy copies of those books for themselves, or check them out from a library. I would have no rights over any of that.

    What I would have an intellectual property right over was my presentation of said material. If I wrote a book on Austen’s bibliography (to continue the example), and did nothing but cite and comment in the most literal way on Austen’s works and the variety of commentaries that you could find — in other words, if I contributed not even one original thought anywhere in the text — my efforts would still be copyrightable, because no one else has ever presented that material in quite the same way as I did. I was the one who picked the style of organizing the text, I was the one who chose which quotes to put in and which to leave out, etc. A professor who teaches a general survey course has the same intellectual property rights over their presentation as I would over mine, and for the same reason. The fact that the format is oral lectures instead of printed text makes no difference.

    It does not surprise me that there are people out there so ill-versed in the principles of law undergirding academic activities that they think it is their right to record anything they please as long as they’ve paid for it. By the same token, I should be able to record a movie in the theater, I suppose — since I paid to see it. Or maybe I should be able to take the recipe of any dish I like when I go out to eat. I paid for the meal, after all. Sigh.

    None of this, of course, is a defense of the professor. And this is my major problem with academia…the reason, in fact, why I left. Far too many of them no longer follow where the evidence leads, but let their own personal biases drag them as they will. Too many of those don’t even know that they’re doing it — they actually think they’re being impartial and objective. But when cornered, they hide behind centuries-old academic privileges. Like too many Americans of all political stripes, they trumpet their rights without giving a thought to their responsibilities. My prime example is always David Guth, that moron professor at U. Kansas who tweeted out nasty crap in the wake of a mass shooting about how he wished next time it would be the kids of NRA members who got killed. That would get me fired from my job. It merely got him placed on leave, on the grounds of “disruption” — and even then, there was a howl of outrage about his protected speech rights being violated.

    His case, and this one, and so many others, are going to get the American public to revisit the relationship between academia and the First Amendment if they continue. None of us, after all, have the right to wish harm on others’ children or go on political rants during work hours — and still keep our jobs. Why should they? It’ll be a tragedy when it happens, for those academics who are still committed to the pursuit of truth. But there we’ll be.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  282. Well they had to cover the Emmy first, pikachu, this last episode of the expanse waactoo hard to follow, and in the magicians, they killed off Alice (you bastards)

    narciso (d1f714) — 2/18/2017 @ 6:02 pm

    You’re fired. I haven’t started season 2 yet.

    NJRob (43d957)

  283. Simply put, this kid is a whistleblower. The teacher was trying to directly intimidate him and others like him because he was a known Trump supporter.

    Nothing he released had anything to do with class subject matter. The University and Dave and others like him are just trying to cover up for yet another fanatical leftist “professor” that would rather indoctrinated our young than educated.

    Just like when California went after David Daleiden and Sandra Merritt for exposing Planned Parenthood selling baby parts, the government school went after this young man.

    Exact same game. Exact same excuses.

    NJRob (43d957)

  284. indoctrinate than educate*

    NJRob (43d957)

  285. I taught such a class — several such classes, actually — at an undergraduate level at a university. The teacher does have intellectual property rights, but usually not over the subject matter — unless it’s original research. If I’m teaching a university class on Jane Austen, obviously, all her books are in the public domain, and anyone who wanted to could read them for free on Project Gutenberg. Or if anyone wanted to read commentaries on Austen’s work that I cited in the course of my lectures, they are free to buy copies of those books for themselves, or check them out from a library. I would have no rights over any of that.

    What I would have an intellectual property right over was my presentation of said material. If I wrote a book on Austen’s bibliography (to continue the example), and did nothing but cite and comment in the most literal way on Austen’s works and the variety of commentaries that you could find — in other words, if I contributed not even one original thought anywhere in the text — my efforts would still be copyrightable, because no one else has ever presented that material in quite the same way as I did. I was the one who picked the style of organizing the text, I was the one who chose which quotes to put in and which to leave out, etc. A professor who teaches a general survey course has the same intellectual property rights over their presentation as I would over mine, and for the same reason. The fact that the format is oral lectures instead of printed text makes no difference.

    It does not surprise me that there are people out there so ill-versed in the principles of law undergirding academic activities that they think it is their right to record anything they please as long as they’ve paid for it. By the same token, I should be able to record a movie in the theater, I suppose — since I paid to see it. Or maybe I should be able to take the recipe of any dish I like when I go out to eat. I paid for the meal, after all. Sigh.

    None of this, of course, is a defense of the professor. And this is my major problem with academia…the reason, in fact, why I left. Far too many of them no longer follow where the evidence leads, but let their own personal biases drag them as they will. Too many of those don’t even know that they’re doing it — they actually think they’re being impartial and objective. But when cornered, they hide behind centuries-old academic privileges. Like too many Americans of all political stripes, they trumpet their rights without giving a thought to their responsibilities. My prime example is always David Guth, that moron professor at U. Kansas who tweeted out nasty crap in the wake of a mass shooting about how he wished next time it would be the kids of NRA members who got killed. That would get me fired from my job. It merely got him placed on leave, on the grounds of “disruption” — and even then, there was a howl of outrage about his protected speech rights being violated.

    His case, and this one, and so many others, are going to get the American public to revisit the relationship between academia and the First Amendment if they continue. None of us, after all, have the right to wish harm on others’ children or go on political rants during work hours — and still keep our jobs. Why should they? It’ll be a tragedy when it happens, for those academics who are still committed to the pursuit of truth. But there we’ll be.

    Demosthenes (09f714) — 2/19/2017 @ 5:42 am

    Non sequitur.

    There was nothing being taught in this disgusting rant and none of the “professor’s” intellectual property rights were violated.

    NJRob (43d957)

  286. NJRob, maybe read the comment before dismissing it. Just a thought.

    Demosthenes, I think you nailed it. Professors might have some notional IP rights to their work, yet that’s not a shield from accountability for how they do their jobs.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  287. Dustin,

    I only read the 1st half. You are right I should’ve finished.

    That said, the IP argument is a non sequitur. Nothing in the “professor’s” rant is part of their teaching method or if it is she should’ve been fired years ago.

    NJRob (43d957)

  288. I was responding to what I thought was a good, but incomplete, statement by shipwreckedcrew about the nature of an academic’s rights regarding his or her work. I wanted to be very clear that it’s not the information being protected, but the presentation of it, which is a creative expression borne of professional expertise and thus completely protectable under IP law. The reason I started my response by addressing that is because of a comment by Rev. Hoagie which basically said, “F*** the rules, I’ll record what I want.” I even referenced the comment, though not by the commenter’s name. All of that should have been easy enough to catch.

    However, the IP argument is not a non-sequitur. This kid broke a rule. Now, I’m very much inclined to be on the kid’s side, because the professor was breaking a bigger one. (Note the lack of use of air quotes, by the way — someone doesn’t stop holding a job just because they stop doing it, and I have two former bosses that are excellent examples of that.) In my opinion, once you stop teaching and start propagandizing, you have violated the standards of professional conduct, and you should be able to be held accountable. But what holds true for the professor also holds true for the kid…when you agree to conditions and then violate them, you can’t cry foul if there are consequences for your actions. Black people went to jail in this country for such “heinous,” “society-threatening” crimes as sitting at all-white lunch counters and riding in the front of city buses. Were the laws unjust? Of course. But anyone who expects a one-to-one corollary between justice and the law had better hope there’s a heaven, because that’s the only place they’ll ever find it.

    I hope Mr. O’Neil comes out on top, whether he gets his win via the court system or via a settlement check and an apology. But here’s the bottom line: just because someone breaks one rule doesn’t mean you’re free of consequences if you break another one to expose them. The minute we cast that aside, we admit the law doesn’t matter, and we’re all just living in the aristocracy of pull.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  289. does this deranged pig still get to go into classrooms and spew her mental disease all over these kids

    i’m super curious

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  290. Let me just head the two “motive” arguments off at the pass. One of them I’ve already addressed. You know, the one that says, “Well, he may have broken a rule, but he did it for the right reasons.” The rule is still the rule, and the standard is still the standard. A good motive may be a mitigating factor, and in context it may even entirely excuse the action. But that’s still a case that has to be made.

    The other motive argument, which I’ve left dangling until now, is the motive of the people suspending him. If they’re anything like other California-based academic administrators that I’ve met, I’m quite sure they had no problem with it — some may even have had a good chuckle over what their policies allowed them to do. And yes, if it were a leftist student recording the political propaganda rants of a conservative professor*, they might well have found some excuse to ignore the whole situation. See, but the problem is not just in the hypocrisy of double standards. It’s also in the fact that one of those standards is wrong. That universities are wrong to excuse leftist students when they break rules does not excuse conservative students who break the rules. It means that universities are committing two sins instead of one.

    This example isn’t entirely analogous, but I’ve felt professionally obligated to give F’s to some students of mine that I liked very much, who were good people, but who just couldn’t handle my course and finished with a 56 or 57 average. I failed them on the grounds that if I passed them, I would be setting a standard that would apply to any other student in their situation, and I couldn’t justify that. On the other hand, there have been a couple kids who finished with a 58 that I failed with positive glee, because they were arrogant, obnoxious, and generally festering pustules on the face of humanity. But I didn’t let my personal dislike for someone stop me from passing them, sometimes with a very high grade, if they earned it on their own merits.

    * (Yes, despite the rumors, there still are a few…though sightings of them in the wild are now only slightly more common than those of unicorns.)

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  291. NJRob,

    I think Trump partisans aren’t that different from Obama partisans in that once they have determined if something is on their Dear Leader’s side, it must be good, and if it’s not on their Dear Leader’s side, it must be wrong.

    There’s got to be about 25% of the American voting public that will defend Trump if he murders someone in the street, and 25% who will criticize Trump (and defend Team D) if Trump leaps to take a bullet for an orphan.

    That’s half the population, at least, that just isn’t honestly thinking about the issues. They are cheering their team. Trump is the penalty the democrats have paid for their refusal to reason, and what comes after Trump will be the GOP’s penalty (or prize, should he turn this sinking disaster around). I used to be pretty partisan myself, assuming that the democrat was automatically, 100% of the time, worse than the republican. This is what has ruined our form of government.

    Unfortunately you can already see democrats insist that Trump represents all conservative thought. This teacher is a perfect example of anti-Trump hysteria. I think Trump is polarizing us further instead of the great lesson being learned. In fact, I don’t see any way out of the problem other than perhaps a return to some form of federalism or even a Brexit of Texas and a few other states.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  292. Dustin, when I start my own little Galt’s Gulch, you’ll have a place there if you want it.

    Of course, you’ll be paying for your own house. :)

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  293. what’s amazon turdlord jeffy bezos’s nomadic fake news propaganda slut Avi Selk and his sleazy fake news colleague Peter Holley trying to get at here?

    “We’re really back to being in a civil war,” the psychology professor said as O’Neil and others listened from their desks.

    She didn’t mean a real war, but rather a divided country in which “we are the majority. More of us voted to not have that kind of leadership.”

    The professor said “we” – but O’Neil thought otherwise. He recorded the speech and showed it to a campus Republican group, who complained to administrators that Cox was abusing the power of her grade book.

    wtf does it matter if she said we or i

    it doesn’t!

    this is just wapo fake news flimflammery

    and what proof do the wapo propaganda sluts have that Caleb O’Neil thought the deranged professor did *not* say “we”

    ???

    they have no proof!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  294. But here’s the bottom line: just because someone breaks one rule doesn’t mean you’re free of consequences if you break another one to expose them. The minute we cast that aside, we admit the law doesn’t matter, and we’re all just living in the aristocracy of pull.

    Demosthenes (09f714) — 2/19/2017 @ 9:06 am

    Something you’re saying whistle blower laws are illegal and whistle blowers should be prosecuted?

    NJRob (a0a2c6)

  295. So you’re *

    NJRob (a0a2c6)

  296. the fake news wapo propaganda sluts don’t report this part of the unbalanced professor’s rant:

    One of the most frightening things for me and most people in my life is that the people creating the assault are among us.

    This deranged fascist is clearly trying to ostracize the students what did not vote do do hillary stinkypig clinton all up in it.

    And there’s more than a whiff of incitement here as well [full transcript].

    I have a problem with that.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  297. ugh *to* do hillary stinkypig clinton all up in it i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  298. All from Dustin @300

    “Unfortunately you can already see democrats insist that Trump represents all conservative thought.”

    During his month in office, Trump has done a remarkable job of implementing a traditional conservative agenda, demonstrating that he is, in fact, the conservative he sold himself as.

    “This teacher is a perfect example of anti-Trump hysteria.”

    This teacher is a perfect example of mainstream behavior emanating from the Left, the GOPe, and elsewhere, which is intended to overturn our most fundamental democratic institution: the vote. To those who value our freedom, this is a frightening and repulsive coalition. I would suggest that is is where China and Russia are currently working to undermine our great nation.

    “I think Trump is polarizing us further instead of the great lesson being learned.”

    Trump has pushed ahead with the agenda he promised voters he would bring to the office, despite pushback from largely anti-conservative forces (and, I might add anti-democratic forces) on both the right and left. The suggestion that an elected official honoring his campaign promises constitutes polarizing behavior is an extraordinary claim – should I say laughable? Okay, laughable claim. It is difficult to imagine that Ted Cruz would have received much different treatment if he had been elected. You don’t reason with a mob because a mob doesn’t reason with you. My biggest concern is the remarkable number of what Lenin called “useful idiots” who seem eager to join the mob.

    “In fact, I don’t see any way out of the problem other than perhaps a return to some form of federalism or even a Brexit of Texas and a few other states.”

    The way out of this problem would never come from backing down to his anti-democratic critics. That would only reward and encourage them. Staying the course is the only thing that might work.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  299. @288 mg

    Thanks. ADD deserves some of the credit.

    That actually reminds me of a guy I used to work with who got a handicap placard for carpal tunnel in his wrists, which makes no sense.

    I recently caught up with a friend I hadn’t seen in years. He was working under a PI going around documenting insurance fraud.

    Most of his cases involve filming people who are severely injured and disabled washing their car, throwing horseshoes etc.

    I don’t know if he would go as far as enroll in a class, but his academic future wouldn’t exactly be on the line.

    I could see young Caleb taking a totally new career path. ROTC OTC Army Intelligence CIA. He’s already served us behind enemy lines.

    Pinandpuller (7a3e75)

  300. Dave

    You’d make a lot more on your lectures if you sold overpriced soda, popcorn and candy.

    “Jane Austen is a terrorist.” Copyright 2017.

    Pinandpuller (7a3e75)

  301. It would be funny if the perfessor had to write an apology to young master O’Neil.

    Or “I will not rant in class” a hundred times on a dry erase board.

    Any of you lawyers out there want to help me sue my old school over clapping out erasers? I think I have the white lung.

    Pinandpuller (7a3e75)

  302. Say is there any truth to the rumor that John McCain is doing a European tour with the Dixie Chick’s?

    Pinandpuller (7a3e75)

  303. Senator Paul went on the tv and told Meghan’s cowardly butthurt daddy how the cow ate the cabbage

    “Everything that he says about the president is colored by his own personal dispute he’s got running with President Trump, and it should be taken with a grain of salt, because John McCain’s the guy who’s advocated for war everywhere,”
    Paul said on ABC’s “This Week.”

    “He would bankrupt the nation. We’re very lucky John McCain’s not in charge, because I think we’d be in perpetual war,” Paul added.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  304. We can be honestly critical of some policies, say the border equalization tax.

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/02/contender-for-education-dept-civil-rights-office-could-skewer-sjw-campus-agenda

    narciso (d1f714)

  305. Well there is a limited capacutynof us to engage in multiple fronts in one theater of operations, much lees on multiple ones

    narciso (d1f714)

  306. Concerning the idea that the suspended student at OCC is a “whistleblower”:

    Believe it or not, universities have procedures for investigating dealing with allegations of faculty misconduct. This student availed himself of none of them.

    At this point the tough-guy right chorus will no doubt chime in with “Oh, but the system is rigged, they’re all liberals.” I can’t say for sure whether the student would have gotten a fair hearing if he’d complained through the proper channels. But I *can* say for sure that he won’t get a fair hearing if he doesn’t try.

    The idea that you can violate the law just because you’re convinced the system won’t give you a fair shake, and that it is then supposedly unjust system’s fault when you suffer the consequences, is the same madness pushed by BLM that excuses young black men who resist arrest, with predictable and tragic results.

    Or to take another example, closer to home; suppose I am a conservative blogger who gets SWATted. The authorities show no real interest in bringing the person who put my life in danger to justice. But I know damn well who it is. Should I have immunity from the law if I go out and, say, break the perpetrator’s legs, or burn down his house, etc?

    That kind of thinking leads straight to chaos and the end of law and order.

    Dave (711345)

  307. Everything that he says about the president is colored by his own personal dispute he’s got running with President Trump

    Senator “Wacko Bird” Paul’s statements on McCain, however, are IN NO WAY colored by HIS personal dispute…

    Dave (711345)

  308. “wacko bird” was meghan’s coward daddy’s safe word back in the nam

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  309. Dave, where do you stand on Jane Austen?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  310. Dave,

    Actually you should. That’s how vigantilism begins… when the government refuses to enforce the law equally and plays favoritea. It’s no surprise you’re a staunch defender of the rigged university system. You depend upon it for your livelyhood.

    NJRob (a0a2c6)

  311. i wish elissa would come back

    This is what I wish: that elissa would come back.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  312. In the case of the OCC student, it is simply a lie to claim “the government refuses to enforce the law equally”. The student did not even attempt to pursue any of the available, legal avenues for a complaint.

    Are you a member of BLM? Your argument says that it’s OK for any black man who believes the police might be biased against him to resist arrest, and that if he’s shot or otherwise harmed, it’s the police’s fault.

    Dave (711345)

  313. this professor’s a pig and it’s not this legal crap that should worry you

    it’s that no student had the courage to stand up and tell this deranged pig to shut her hateful ignorant fascist mouf

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  314. False equivalence Dave. That the best you got?

    NJRob (a0a2c6)

  315. False equivalence Dave. That the best you got?

    What’s false about it?

    You said that since the student believed they wouldn’t be treated fairly (in the absence of any evidence, since they didn’t even try pursuing remedies within the law), they were justified in breaking the law, and should be immune to the consequences of doing so.

    How is that any different from a black person who believes the police won’t treat them fairly resisting arrest, and then blaming the police when it turns out badly?

    Dave (711345)

  316. yes yes this was just like a black student resisting arrest then blaming the popo for how it turned out

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  317. Caleb O’Neil = arrest-resisting black student

    and it ended badly why?

    cause of the popo

    there should be an update to the original post

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  318. @ NJRob, #303:

    You do understand that whistleblower laws are…well…the law, right? So your analogy doesn’t even come close to holding?

    @ Cruz Supporter, #319:

    You know, I’ve had a good beef-and-bacon lunch, three fine beers, and a nice afternoon watching the local soccer team with a friend. So I’m willing to let you be a jack@$$ on your own time.

    But no gulch for you. You get left outside with the rest of the Trumptards, which is still better than you deserve.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  319. Dave and Dustin are making sense.

    Cruz Supporter and NJRob have gone full happyfeet. Everybody knows you never go full happyfeet.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  320. that is so not even accurate what you said

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  321. Don’t be so snooty, booty. I’m speaking plain penguin here.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  322. It would be funny if the perfessor had to write an apology to young master O’Neil.

    Or “I will not rant in class” a hundred times on a dry erase board.

    Imagine the umbrage she would take. She would storm Umbrage like it were a battlefield objective. Like it were real estate.

    “Call the Captain of the guard. We are taking Umbrage. Mobilize the storm troopers. Put the artillery on that ridge. Have the cavalry flank from the left.”

    papertiger (c8116c)

  323. The most wonderful thing about papertiggers is he’s the only one!

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  324. Demo…

    But anyone who expects a one-to-one corollary between justice and the law had better hope there’s a heaven, because that’s the only place they’ll ever find it.

    You can have all the justice in Heaven that you want, I will pass on that! I’ll take Mercy instead, if I get justice, it won’t be Heaven where I’ll be going!

    Yoda jr (310909)


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