Patterico's Pontifications

2/10/2017

UH-OH: Looks Like Michael Flynn Talked to Russia About Sanctions After All

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:00 am



Not good:

National security adviser Michael Flynn privately discussed U.S. sanctions against Russia with that country’s ambassador to the United States during the month before President Trump took office, contrary to public assertions by Trump officials, current and former U.S. officials said.

Flynn’s communications with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak were interpreted by some senior U.S. officials as an inappropriate and potentially illegal signal to the Kremlin that it could expect a reprieve from sanctions that were being imposed by the Obama administration in late December to punish Russia for its alleged interference in the 2016 election.

Flynn on Wednesday denied that he had discussed sanctions with Kislyak. Asked in an interview whether he had ever done so, he twice said, “No.”

On Thursday, Flynn, through his spokesman, backed away from the denial. The spokesman said Flynn “indicated that while he had no recollection of discussing sanctions, he couldn’t be certain that the topic never came up.”

There’s one reason and one reason only that you back away from a denial like that: you’ve been caught. Flynn’s previous statements hung Mike Pence out to dry:

“They did not discuss anything having to do with the United States’ decision to expel diplomats or impose censure against Russia,” Pence said in an interview with CBS News last month, noting that he had spoken with Flynn about the matter. Pence also made a more sweeping assertion, saying there had been no contact between members of Trump’s team and Russia during the campaign. To suggest otherwise, he said, “is to give credence to some of these bizarre rumors that have swirled around the candidacy.”

Now a lot of people are “suggesting otherwise”:

Neither of those assertions is consistent with the fuller account of Flynn’s contacts with Kislyak provided by officials who had access to reports from U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies that routinely monitor the communications of Russian diplomats. Nine current and former officials, who were in senior positions at multiple agencies at the time of the calls, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

All of those officials said ­Flynn’s references to the election-related sanctions were explicit. Two of those officials went further, saying that Flynn urged Russia not to overreact to the penalties being imposed by President Barack Obama, making clear that the two sides would be in position to review the matter after Trump was sworn in as president.

. . . .

An administration official stressed that Pence made his comments based on his conversation with Flynn. The sanctions in question have so far remained in place.

So far it appears to be unnamed officials pushing this story, but the fact that Flynn’s spokeshole is backtracking leads me to believe they’re on to something. It’s perhaps worth noting that, in what could be a coordinated effort on the part of the sources, the New York Times is reporting the story as well as the Washington Post (the source linked above). The Times there is a transcript of the phone conversation in question. The communications are described as “unambiguous and highly inappropriate” by the anonymous officials quoted in the Times.

I don’t think this issue is going away.

[Cross-posted at RedState and The Jury Talks Back.]

112 Responses to “UH-OH: Looks Like Michael Flynn Talked to Russia About Sanctions After All”

  1. this sounds like fake news to me because it’s coming from the new york times lol and amazon turdlord jeffy bezos’s propaganda sluts at the Washington Post

    but this is just what you get when you appoint sleazy military people from the defense department to civilian jobs

    the pentagon culture is very corrupt and they don’t have any integrity so it’s a big shift when you move into a position where there’s more accountability

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. i don’t get the bid deal though if they discussed food stamp’s silly sanctions cause those sanctions were all about working with CNN anderson cooper fake news to create a sense of drama to delegitimize President Trump, who is 100% the most legitimate one

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  3. This is the same carp they went after scooter Libby for, you really want to go there.

    narciso (d1f714)

  4. I’m laughing out loud.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. oops *big* deal i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. Did Flynn tell the Russian that Trump would be more flexible after the election and some yoga sessions but to have Putin bring the Ben-Gay in any case?

    nk (dbc370)

  7. it’s not funny this is very serious cause of if the lil military boy discussed the wrong stuff with the russian man it could have big important ramifications for all the different consequences that are implicated by this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. “Nine current and former officials, who were in senior positions at multiple agencies at the time of the calls, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.”

    TREASON!! TRAITORS!! TREASONOUS TRAITORS!!! HOW DARE THEY REVEAL THIS!!??

    Leviticus (efada1)

  9. they probably all want just free sex changes like bradley cooper

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  10. ugh *just want* i mean

    i think i’m still a lil tuckered out from all the magical adventures

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. It was known beforehand that the firm Flynn worked for after he left the Army was dirty with the Russians — one of the partners was convicted of spying for the KGB. But don’t tell anybody — they’ll call you Tail-gunner.

    nk (dbc370)

  12. As posed to bolshakov, the gru gobetween to rfk, on tuuny as teddy’s to andropov

    narciso (d1f714)

  13. I don’t believe the IC likes Flynn very much. The President ignored the initial warnings so the IC is pursuing a sidewalk chalk with stick figures approach as a teaching tool.

    Rick Ballard (5e8a41)

  14. remember General Petraeus and his chippy what he gave all the secrets to

    these general dudes in particular are some really sketchy guys with severe entitlement issues

    but Mr. Trump wanted him so we have to support him wholeheartedly

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. this one time at band camp General Flynn gave a lil soldier boy his whole dinner and went hungry

    so that was very nice

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. Now as regards the three brothers with top secret clearance, who rxfiltrated data to an offside server.

    narciso (d1f714)

  17. Three [muslim] brothers who managed office information technology for members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence and other lawmakers were abruptly relieved of their duties on suspicion that they accessed congressional computers without permission.*

    us federal government lol

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. ¿De qué color son esas ardillas, narciso?

    nk (dbc370)

  19. One has to wonder why a given piece of info, why a certain template is being pushed?

    narciso (d1f714)

  20. Seeing as the last administration, let,all their secrets go out the door, let the exchanges be hacked and did practically nothing, in part because of the Iran deal.

    narciso (8b1d12)

  21. It may be harmless error but, as DRJ points out at the Jury, one of the selling points for Trump was that he would be under scrutiny and constantly held accountable. (She also points out, as though it were needed, that his supporters won’t care.)

    nk (dbc370)

  22. narciso,

    An IC intent upon correcting Obama Maladministration errors might have chosen to go the pour encourager les autres route to achieve the objective. Or they decided President Motormouth needed a good wallop with a frozen flounder. I doubt one will be enough.

    Rick Ballard (5e8a41)

  23. There is one thing that Mike Flynn somehow forgot, or didn’t know, or thought nobody who knew he was lying would be able to divulge anything because it’s classified, and/or it wouldn’t matter because Donald Trump would become the president soon:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/us/flynn-is-said-to-have-talked-to-russians-about-sanctions-before-trump-took-office.html

    Federal officials who have read the transcript of the call were surprised by Mr. Flynn’s comments, since he would have known that American eavesdroppers closely monitor such calls.

    Now you can’t necessarly that he did bad. He’s reported to have stopped Russia frm retaliating and never made any promises.

    Sammy Finkelman (96f386)

  24. he’s a retired general though Mr. F so you can’t just give him the benefit of the doubt

    God only knows what’s going on here he probably sold out America for a handful of magic beans

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  25. this reminds me how sleazy CIA poofter John Brennan told a whole bunch of lies under oath with absolutely no consequences

    but he was only lying to some turds in Congress and the American people

    General Flynn lied to a bunch of propaganda sluts

    and now he has to pay the price

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  26. I’m struck by the following two quotes:

    There’s a transcript of the phone conversation …

    and
    … from U.S. intelligence and law enforcement agencies that routinely monitor the communications of Russian diplomats …

    And the sources describing the content of the transcripts are said to include “former officials”, which I presume to mean high level Obama appointees, now looking to embarrass Trump.

    Was the intercepted call between Flynn and a Russian diplomat, in which case this may involve nothing more than recording a cell phone call, which probably is “routine”. Certainly the Democrats showed they had a pretty good east coast net when they intercepted Newt’s call in the 1990s, and DC must be much more closely monitored today, legalities aside. However, if this involves the interception of a call between the embassy and Moscow, say a report of a meeting between Flynn and an embassy official, then one would expect the Russians to routinely encrypt the call. It would be surprising that we would tell the Russians that decrypting their communications is also “routine”.

    If the latter is the case, then we have a much more serious transgression than anything Flynn might have done. But I am reminded that such lapses, politically motivated disclosures of classified information, were rather common place, even routine, in the previous administration.

    BobStewartatHome (71c904)

  27. Who said they gave a farthing about that, rick, just like podesta was onnthe board of the sanctioned sherbank, and there were ties to that other Franco Russian firm, joule, the solon’s pothead son ended up on a Ukrainian oil company tied to voldya’s gang.

    narciso (d1f714)

  28. This is the same ic who let Al raymi slip through for monthes on end, not impressed at all

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. It’s curious that we seem to take it for granted that have a transcript of a Russian embassy official’s communications, while at the same time, we also take it for granted that a previous Secretary of State would “lose” 30,000 emails during her tenure.

    BobStewartatHome (71c904)

  30. Now as regards the three brothers with top secret clearance, who rxfiltrated data to an offside server.

    narciso (d1f714) — 2/10/2017 @ 9:17 am

    Shhhhhhhhh!!! Not a big deal!

    Colonel Haiku (d8affe)

  31. We have – not transcripts – Hillary didn’t have her calls to and from foreign officials recorded or transcribed – but we have notes taken of the calls she made to foreign leaders from the inside the State Department. And those are among the very few records of what Hillary Clinton as Secretary of sate that she kept.

    We have notes on the call she had with the president of Egypt on Sept, 2012, for instance (in which she described the attack in Benghazi as terrorism.)

    She didn’t “lose” 30,000 e-mails – she deleted them – after turning over what she said was all possible work related e-mails, by which she meant those to or from a state.gov or whitehouse.gov address, plus those turned up by a few text searches of the main message, not any attachments.

    She converted them all to paper printouts before turning them over, probably to frustrate searching, but the State Department scanned them all (and by 2015, scanning worked better tha it used to) She also tried to pretend this was part of some more general collecting of records, and aht she had complied immediately.

    Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c)

  32. And the Libyan assembly speaker, a good guy all told, that’s why she threw him under the bus, leading to the hail Mary strike over sirte

    narciso (d1f714)

  33. The call was between Michael T. Flynn and Sergey I. Kislyak, the Russian ambassador to the United States. But there was actually more than one call.

    The one with Kislyak, or one particular one with Kislyak that beame known, and that Flynn talked about and explained as being an informal chat that began with Flynn extending Christmas wishes, and that never went into a discusson of possible sanctions, was presumably the most important.

    Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c)

  34. Now that the cabinet is filling up I think there will be some momentum for the idea that Flynn is morectrouble than he is worth, and there are better candidates for that job. I’m guessing that Flynn is in Bannons circle of power, and the pressure to remove Flynn is going to come from elsewhere, maybe Mattis.

    But it might be Kushner who actually has the juice to push him out, much like what happened to Obamas first Nat Sec advisor, Jim jones, who lasted only 18 months and was largely frozen out for a while before stepping down.

    Shipwreckedcrew (5b5bb8)

  35. the little general man has his work cut out for him if he wants to be as sleazy corrupt and dishonest as the chick he’s replacing

    but he seems to have a can-do attitude

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  36. Mire to the point, this is the carp that Richard Allen wee subjected to, his successors were not as adept

    narciso (d1f714)

  37. If the latter is the case, then we have a much more serious transgression than anything Flynn might have done.

    Doubtful. If I were a Russian diplomat in DC, or in Beijing, or several other places including Moscow–just as if I were an American diplomat in Moscow or Beijing–I think I would assume the host country was monitoring my communications, and that at the very least any phone calls I made or took which were unencrypted (such as those by Flynn) were being listened to by the host government.

    What would be piquant is if Flynn, on assuming his job, discovered he was the target of a FISA warrant by the Obama security apparatus and that the phone being monitored was his own. I doubt, if that happened, Flynn would mention it to anyone.

    kishnevi (870883)

  38. Sammy, I think you will find that intercepting phone calls, particularly those from mobile phones, is very much like intercepting emails, with the major difference being that emails are much smaller, in the sense of the number of bytes involved, the information is much denser and more readily categorized, and the identity of the parties involved much more readily determined. But I’m glad you can keep these two things in your brain (Russian communications are routinely transcribed while a SoS’s communications are not,) without wondering why this is so. Let alone whether this is even plausible. It certainly is convenient if you are a supporter of the cartel in DC.

    BobStewartatHome (71c904)

  39. kisnevi, I think I made it clear that I thought intercepting ordinary cell phone calls was “routine”. But it is not clear to me that the transcript that this mentioned in regards to the sanctions conversation involves Flynn except as the subject of the communication.

    If this outgoing administration was able to target incoming administration officials with FISA warrants the judiciary is hopelessly compromised. And I think the Trump administration would be well advised to blow the lid on such a conspiracy. If not, they might be looking forward to returning the favor in the future, and we are in big trouble.

    BobStewartatHome (71c904)

  40. mostly this just underscores how silly it is to let a lame duck sit in office so long after a new president has been elected

    especially an incompetent malevolent harvardtrash one like food stamp

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  41. Seeing as the basis for the sanctions was the crowdstrike report, General Flynn might had a wry laugh at such incompetent predicate

    narciso (d51633)

  42. Reagan’s people had discussions with Tehran prior to his inauguration, and guess what, the hostages were on a plane and out of Iranian airspace before he took the oath.

    Coincidence? I think not.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  43. BobStewartatHome (71c904) — 2/10/2017 @ 11:11 am

    If this outgoing administration was able to target incoming administration officials with FISA warrants the judiciary is hopelessly compromised.

    Since the New York Times says that Mike Flynn would (or should) have known that American eavesdroppers closely monitor “such” calls, we’re talking about a FUSA warrant on the Russian Ambassador and other diplomats.

    Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c)

  44. desuetude probably applies on this silly Logan Act anyways

    it’s like when that other ex-military loser Tom Cotton wrote his goofball letter to Iran (which if you recall was signed even by Meghan’s disgracefully cowardly daddy)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  45. If the Trump cabinet or inner circle ends up with people who are the wrong people and untrustworthy people then they should and must be sent off. (Remember that Flynn’s son was already found to be an embarrassment and fired.) Bad fits in high level appointed positions have occurred in every administration within memory and many were in fact rectified in due course. But WAPO with their daily parade of “leaks” and their eternal stable of unnamed sources is getting old, and their constant drumbeat of criticism about anything and everything from the most petty to the more important just serves to haze over and take focus away from what does or who do need to be most urgently addressed.

    elissa (35b739)

  46. This is scandalous and only partisan people would not agree.

    Colonel Haiku (d8affe)

  47. Takeaway:

    1. Flynn talked to Russians before Trump took office.

    2. Opponents assert that Flynn talked about sanctions, without any proof. (“interpreted by some senior U.S. officials” is the kind of thing Patterico used to pillory as a journalistic blank check.)

    3. SCANDAL!!!!

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  48. Shirley you can’t be cereal kevin

    narciso (d51633)

  49. the scandal is that Russia did NOT retaliate on failmerica for food stamp’s sanctions

    it was a big disappointment for a lot of people

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  50. I continue to struggle to understand what is deemed important, relevant, significant, of concern around here lately. But that’s my cross to bear.

    Colonel Haiku (d8affe)

  51. Nine current and former officials, who were in senior positions at multiple agencies at the time of the calls, spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

    So, nine senior Obama administration officials are leaking what they purport is top secret information to attack the new national security advisor. This is an organized conspiracy to disclose classified information to unauthorized people.

    You want a scandal? Look here!

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  52. BobStewartatHome (71c904) — 2/10/2017 @ 11:02 am

    (Russian communications are routinely transcribed while a communications are not,) without wondering why this is so.

    It;s obvious why:

    Russian communications are recorded, and later transcribed, because this is done by an intelligence agency and they need to be able to give exact details to an analyst who isn’t listening live..

    While a Secretary of State may not want to leave too detailed a record, or something susceptible to a FOIA request or release in the future, so the calls were not recorded, and also transcribing live is difficult and requires a skilled court reporter.

    Let alone whether this is even plausible.

    It’s very plausible.

    Probably actually recording got stopped a few presidents ago. For the same reason the last president to record a conversation was Nixon. Reagan kept a little diary, but he didnt record aany conversations. Not even with foreign leaders, I think.

    What goes for a president probably also goes for a Secretary of State, particularly one named Clinton.

    Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c)

  53. Slack is cut for everyone but the new administration. Or so it seems to me. The day I find the NYT or WaPo to be honest or credible about politics will be the day they can put two pills behind my right ear, as I am officially useless.

    Colonel Haiku (d8affe)

  54. they’re being led by failmerica’s nauseatingly corrupt and achingly butthurt CIA/NSA intelligence agencies

    Schumer promised they would retaliate

    so here you go

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. 51, happyfeet (28a91b) — 2/10/2017 @ 11:33 am

    51.the scandal is that Russia did NOT retaliate on failmerica for food stamp’s sanctions

    No, it was that he stopped it by telling Russia maybe the Trump admnistration would lift any sanctions that were going to be imposed. Why not wait and see?

    Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c)

  56. leviticus at #8 is being sarcastic, but this evident conspiracy is an extremely serious crime. MUCH more serious than whatever Flynn may have done during the transition.

    Releasing information from (or even admitting that there are) phone conversations of Russian officials is the kind of thing Chelsea Manning went to prison for. For NINE senior officials (presumably still with access to this data) to do so in a coordinated manner is conspiracy to commit a serious federal felony for political reasons.

    They should all go to jail forever.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  57. isn’t it kind of a check and balances thing though Mr. F

    if you have a malevolent harvardtrash turd like obama in office doing everything he can to sabotage america’s foreign relations on his way out the door

    don’t we want/need some kind of check on that?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  58. elissa (35b739) — 2/10/2017 @ 11:30 am

    (Remember that Flynn’s son was already found to be an embarrassment and fired.) He wasn’t finished causing trouble.

    When Trump put in the EO, he tweeted about it using he hashtag #Muslimban, and then deleted teh tweet and then his whole account.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/316794-son-of-national-security-adviser-deletes-account-after-muslim-ban-tweets

    Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c)

  59. I would expect that the FBI has been told to find these people and arrest them.

    Then again, the administration isn’t always on top of things, so maybe not.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  60. I don’t think these 9 officials seriously harmed U.S. intelligence. (except maybe that they alerted Russia their protection against eavesdropping wasn’t as good as they thought it was. But maybe Kislyak knew the conversation wasn’t secure.)

    Sammy Finkelman (ebf45c)

  61. elissa, Trump will rise or fall based on his appointments. As a businessman, with many disparate interests, I am hopeful that he has some skills in such matters. Based on the comments made on this blog before we knew his Supreme Court nomination, he did a good job selecting the right man. The other appointees are mixed, but they appear to be qualified, despite the Democrat’s lockstep opposition.

    This stuff with Flynn is similar to the preposterous charge that the Russians someone interfered with our election. Unnamed sources, secret communications or at least secret means of accessing communications that are likely secured, and so on. Remember, they claimed that Putin himself was involved in the hacking in the made up drama following Hillary!’s surprising loss. The whole thing seemed like one of the “action flicks” that Hollywood has been producing for the last decade. Lots of special effects unconnected with reality. Even gravity is ignored.

    It’s hard to give credence to so much of this. I suspect the waste water processed through the DC’s sewage treatment plant remains fairly psychoactive even after using the best available technology.

    BobStewartatHome (71c904)

  62. There appears to be a concerted Democrat campaign of constant and total warfare against this administration. Every elected Democrat, every client group, and everyone ever hoping for a favor from the Dems is coming out of the woodwork in a concerted set of attacks.

    Nothing needs to be proved. The drumbeat will be enough and people will tire of this “scandal-plagued” administration. That Trump is who he is, and his people are who he chooses, will make this easier because their response will be like the bull to the toreador.

    The Dems say that they want Trump to succeed. HAH!

    Unless Trump 1) STFU, and 2) puts competent people in charge, this is going to be a long 4 years.

    I despise these scurrilous attacks, but eventually I will tire of fighting on the side of Trump and his minions if they won’t stop playing pinata.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  63. I don’t think these 9 officials seriously harmed U.S. intelligence.

    WHO THE F CARES? Top Secret isn’t a subjective thing. And these folks, more than anyone, know that.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  64. This— is The WashingtonPost (said in James Earl Jones’ voice)

    http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2017/02/10/hahahaha.-washington-posts-fact-checker-punked-fake-campaign-ads/

    elissa (35b739)

  65. The reporters and their editors should be held for contempt until one of them reveals their wources. This is not laughing matter, and if the NSA(or whomever) can release politicians phone conversations for political ends, there is going to be little left of the Republic when they are done. It will be a police state like J Edgar never dreamed of.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  66. Since these are former officials, who presumably have no access to these transcripts any longer, you just have to ask “What else did they squirrel away?” The NSA records nearly anything said on a phone in DC. This could be only the tiniest tip of the iceberg.

    I find this absolutely chilling.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  67. someone somehow interfered …

    Remember the Clinton advisor who smuggled documents from the National Archives in his underwear in order to destroy them? What is considered the “best and the brightest” is really a measure of the journalists who make such judgements and the media institutions that employ these silly people.

    BobStewartatHome (71c904)

  68. if the NSA (or whomever) can release politicians phone conversations for political ends

    Seattle’s Jim McDermott did exactly this, and ended up only owing Boehner about a million dollars in attorney’s fees. I think he paid with donations from Democrats. No jail time, not even a criminal charge. Just a civil slap on the wrist after a decade of lawfare. Not surprisingly, McDermott had been Chairman of the House Ethics Committee just prior to his transgression. McDermott decided not to run for reelection last year, thank goodness. He retired as a multimillionaire, as befits one of the most outrageous socialists in Congress, who valued partisanship and personal advancement above all else.

    BobStewartatHome (71c904)

  69. 67. Kevin M (25bbee) — 2/10/2017 @ 12:01 pm

    The reporters and their editors should be held for contempt until one of them reveals their sources.

    Hillary woild have gone after leakers if someone had leaked anything bad about her or any person she favored, and the Democrats would have said the leaking is important, and ignore what was leaked.

    And they were preparing to investigate the FBI for telling anything about the investigation. That h got stopped by her failing to win the election.

    I don’t think that kind of thing is good.

    This was relevant and not really private information.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  70. Somehow the many violations of law and policy by these anonymous officials used to attack Flynn are unimportant.

    Thanks to Obama finding the nine is a lot easier than it used to be. The transcripts contain the evidence of Flynn’s guilt or innocence. Leaking partial contents by the gang of nine indicates there’s not enough evidence of guilt so trial by innuendo is required.

    crazy (d3b449)

  71. This was relevant and not really private information.

    Don’t ever ask me to support your request for a security clearance, Sammy.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  72. The previous administration was all helped up on reaching out to the Sepah whose operatives had murdered the largest number of Americans till 9/11 And brought the butcher’s bill to Buenos Aires

    They did get ubl it was a stationery target in the poshest suburb of Islamabad, and they got awlaki because they had an asset mortem storm in their organization

    narciso (d48183)

  73. Is there a statute of limitations on this crime? I’m thinking John Kerry and Jane Fonda get to go to jail first. Maybe Jesse Jackson? Anyone in the DNC who co-ordinated anything with Mexico or Canada, or who met with the PLO… Enough with the pettiness. We had a traitor in the white house, and his minions are MAD.

    Smarty (0bab40)

  74. How DID Reagan get those hostages on a plane before he took the oath?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  75. My favorite story is the bogus Gary Sick account of sending GHWB, I think it was, in the back seat of an SR-71 and back to negotiate it!

    crazy (d3b449)

  76. The round trip flight from the Midwest to Paris and back, plus the negotiations, being packed into a six hour (if memory serves) period in between public appearances by said GHWB. And this ran for weeks with little push back. Fake news has been a staple of leftie politics for my entire life. It is refreshing that we’re willing to discuss it. At the very least, we’re beginning to understand that this is not only possible, but probable.

    BobStewartatHome (71c904)

  77. “Prominent Americans in and out of government are so frequently in communication with foreign officials that singling out one individual — particularly one poised for a top White House job — would invite charges of political persecution. Former U.S. officials also said aggressive enforcement would probably discourage appropriate contact. Michael McFaul, who served as U.S. ambassador to Russia during the Obama administration, said that he was in Moscow meeting with officials in the weeks leading up to Obama’s 2008 election win.”

    “Political persecution” about sums it up I would say.

    Also not quoted from the article:

    Several officials emphasized that while sanctions were discussed, they did not see evidence that Flynn had an intent to convey an explicit promise to take action after the inauguration.

    Likely those “discussions” about sanctions were an agreement to not talk about them at that time, prompting Flynn to state sanctions weren’t discussed, while his political enemies can anonymously claim they discussed sanctions.

    Anyway, this is walking and quacking like another BS demoncrat strategy of de-legitimizing Trumps presidency with Russian skullduggery conspiracy claims.

    Those that want to believe it will gleefully swallow hook, line, and sinker, those of us with common sense will shrug and wonder at people’s capacity to strain a gnat and swallow a camel.

    Leon (1bee31)

  78. That’s right guys. You carry that water.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  79. Flynn on Wednesday denied that he had discussed sanctions with Kislyak. Asked in an interview whether he had ever done so, he twice said, “No.”

    On Thursday, Flynn, through his spokesman, backed away from the denial. The spokesman said Flynn “indicated that while he had no recollection of discussing sanctions, he couldn’t be certain that the topic never came up.”

    Alferd Packer ate several people, so how come you’re not criticizing him, you big hypocrite?

    (Our host doesn’t like the ‘But what about Obama?’ defense of Dear Leader, so we really ought to mix it up occasionally just to keep him happy. I’m doing my part.)

    Jerryskids (3308c1)

  80. “multiple current and former US law enforcement and intelligence officials” strike again. Just an interesting and timely coincidence, I’m sure. Same anonymous sources as the nine accusing Flynn? The more they gossip about code word secrets the easier they’re going to be to unmask.

    crazy (d3b449)

  81. “spokeshole” srsly?

    General Flynn’s a big time you’re-soaking-in-it military dork but for reals he doesn’t seem like the type to have a spokeshole

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  82. Dustin are you old enough to remember the hostages who were miraculously released the very day Reagan was inaugurated? How do you think that might have happened? This was discussed at some length upthread in case you’ve jumped in mid-discussion.

    elissa (35b739)

  83. elissa,

    I’m pretty sure it was because the Iranians had decided to release the hostages but waited a little while to spite the out going Carter. Did you have a more partisan theory?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  84. But to answer the other question, I was very young when that happened and I wasn’t there either so no, I don’t directly remember.

    I do remember when conservatives had a political party though.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  85. Its like the carp over Nixon and the chennault affair, the fact that our ally was not thrown under the bus initially, although they were in 1972.

    The streetwise prof noted how ridiculous the non salacious part of the dossier were, sechin has been trying to pawn off rosneft for years now.

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. Dustin, what’s your theory as to why the Iranians would agree with the Carter Administration to release the hostages, yet still want to spite them?
    If they wanted to spite Carter, don’t you think it would have made better optics for them to do so in a way that Reagan would be the beneficiary of the credit?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  87. poor addled Reagan couldn’t stand up to his first wife and traded her in for the dumb obsequious Nancy

    the idea that he stood down either iran or the soviet union is a sick joke and a gross misunderstanding of the man

    he had good people end of story

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  88. good people backing him i mean to say

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. Because carter was a massive tool, how much so Andrew Scott’s fall of heaven demonstrates, if might have been possible to suppress the khomeini movemt as late so the spring of 78, somewhat like asisi has done.

    narciso (d1f714)

  90. mr happyfeet, what do you mean that he couldn’t stand up to jane wyman?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  91. jane intimidated him

    he needed a weak pliable girl who made him feel manly

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  92. ==Did you have a more partisan theory==

    Dustin I don’t have a partisan theory. I do have an arc of history theory, though, that runs through my comments on a variety of topics and is a perspective that you seem to lack or misunderstand sometimes. I was trying to be nice by giving you an out that you were young then when Reagan got them to free the hostages and arranged to get them safely on a plane home on the very hour and day of his inauguration. It was dramatic and beautiful and not a soul who was watching them come home saw it as anything other than a result and arrangement of Reagan’s election and transition team. Read some history, please. It will give you some additional insights. I mean that sincerely.

    elissa (35b739)

  93. You talking about Trump, I think. And I don’t think the purpose his bought and paid for “models” is to make him “feel” manly but to make him look manly.

    nk (dbc370)

  94. Now back then, there were certainly official like ace Lyons who realized Iran wagged the hezbollah tale, through the sepah, it took a number of years to realize that even for the likes of Robert bar.

    narciso (d1f714)

  95. nancy makes melania look like what you get when you cross marie curie with buffy the vampire slayer

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  96. if this story had legs

    we’d know by now right?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. Mcfaul is a tin plated idiot, who as sleep when they were covering pushkin and termontov,

    narciso (d1f714)

  98. You know what ticked me off, is how colonel townley was summarily blocked from a security clearance out of spite, again general flynn

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. Elisa, thanks for giving me an ‘out’ for a topic I hadn’t been discussing when you brought it up. You didn’t seem to answer me directly, as usual. This partisan stuff is very personal to you and it must be frustrating to be a republican, so I forgive your attitude.

    Dustin (f76cf2)

  100. at least spell her name right

    if you wanna be all saucy

    #spellhernameright

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  101. Mladen Sekulovich changed his name to Karl Malden so that movie fans would be able to remember it. Also, so theatres wouldn’t run out of consonants to put up on the marquee.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  102. Yo considero alegaciones de traicion, I consider treason allegAtions quite seriously, Gary sick was all wet like a Costa Rican rain forest. Reputations were seriously damaged with this trash,

    narciso (d1f714)

  103. ==This partisan stuff is very personal to you and it must be frustrating to be a republican, so I forgive your attitude.==

    You’re a doll, Dustin.

    elissa (ad3907)

  104. 77. crazy (d3b449) — 2/10/2017 @ 1:30 pm

    My favorite story is the bogus Gary Sick account of sending GHWB, I think it was, in the back seat of an SR-71 and back to negotiate it!

    I think it was supposed to be George Bush (the Elder) plus someone else. Gary Sick had worked for Jimmy Carter. Jimmy Carter personally edited that book.

    That was the third claim. First it had been made by Barbara Honneger who was supposedly originally a Republican – she did work on Reagan campaign — and had written something about Debategate earlier, in which the Reagan campaign obtained what were supposed to be briefing materials for the presidential debate. Itbecame public in 1983, afetr a book was published, and Jody Powell and Patrick Caddell were instrumental in pushing it.

    I think, just by logic, they must have been fake debate briefing materials – they were on;y position papers anyway – especially created by the Carter campaign to be leaked, or maybe stuff from Reagm . The “Rendezvous With Destiny: Ronald Reagan and the Campaign That Changed America,” by Craig Shirley, says it was democrat Paul Corbin who turned it over. In 204 to 2005, for a while Jimmy Carter tried to accuse George will of stealing it because he had been one of the people who saw it. Jimmy Carter later

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debategate

    Anyway, Barbara Honnegger produced a book was full of citations – to unimportant matters. The second iteration was by Yippie and radical Abbie Hoffman (whom Jimmy Carter met through his daughter, Amy Carter)

    Jimmy Carter was responsible for these stories. Jimmy Carter was a big liar.

    Sammy Finkelman (a90e7e)

  105. The hostages were released on the same day Reagan was inagurated because he Iranians thought they would get the best deal from Carter, but they still didn’t want Carter to get credit. Jimmy Carter gave them a lot of money (some of the frozen money from the Shah’s government) I saw a political cartoon of Ayatollah Khomeini bowing down toa large statue of a dollar sign and saing Our God says we can elease the hostages or words to that effect.

    Sammy Finkelman (a90e7e)

  106. Oh, look! If the news is negative for Trump, Patrick writes about it!
    Shocker.

    School Marm (5999c1)

  107. If you type Patterico now withut one of the 2 “T”‘s, it now goes to a Russian language web site,
    (which is blocked by filters

    This category is filtered: Sex.

    It used to be somebody’s design company page.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  108. A Russian source for the Donald Trump dossier compiled has been murdered:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/27/mystery-death-ex-kgb-chief-linked-mi6-spys-dossier-donald-trump

    An ex-KGB chief suspected of helping the former MI6 spy Christopher Steele to compile his dossier on Donald Trump may have been murdered by the Kremlin and his death covered up. it has been claimed.

    Oleg Erovinkin, a former general in the KGB and its successor the FSB, was found dead in the back of his car in Moscow on Boxing Day in mysterious circumstances.

    Erovinkin was a key aide to Igor Sechin, a former deputy prime minister and now head of Rosneft, the state-owned oil company, who is repeatedly named in the dossier.

    That would prevent him being questioned.

    Others, who may have been involved in the hacking have been arrested.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/europe/russia-hacking-us-election.html?_r=0

    Two Russian intelligence officers who worked on cyberoperations and a Russian computer security expert have been arrested and charged with treason for providing information to the United States, according to multiple Russian news reports…

    …Russian media reports link the charges to the disclosure of the Russian role in attacking state election boards, including the scanning of voter rolls in Arizona and Illinois, and do not mention the parallel attacks on the D.N.C. and the email of John Podesta, Mrs. Clinton’s campaign chairman.

    But one current and one former United States official, speaking about the classified recruitments on condition of anonymity, confirmed that human sources in Russia did play a crucial role in proving who was responsible for the hacking.

    This happened or became known the week after Donald Trump was inaugurated.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  109. Putin is reported considering sending Edward Snowden to the United SAtates as a “goodwill gesture”
    to Donald Trump.

    http://heavy.com/news/2017/02/edward-snowden-gift-to-trump-russia-hand-handing-over-give-back-execution-twitter-girlfriend-putin/

    The news was broken by NBC, which wrote that “a Snowden handover is one of various ploys to ‘curry favor’ with Trump” that the Russian government is supposedly considering.

    NBC reported that U.S. intelligence had collected information pointing to the possibility of a Snowden handover.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  110. Even the clean parts of the dossier, stink:
    streetwiseprofessor.com/?p=10349

    narciso (d1f714)


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