How Police Have Materially Harmed The Hate Crimes Case In Chicago
Yesterday we learned that hate crime charges have been filed against the four degenerates who tortured a Trump supporter while yelling: “F**k Donald Trump! F**k white people!” I previously discussed this incident here and here.
Here are photos of the thugs (click the link if it does not show in the embed):
CPD Arrested and Charged all four offenders with Hate Crime, as well as other charges, from West Side kidnapping and attack. Presser@2:15 pic.twitter.com/EoYnluf573
— Chicago Police (@Chicago_Police) January 5, 2017
To me, the main takeaway from these charges is that the police should not have shot off their mouths publicly about their personal opinions regarding a criminal case.
The Illinois hate crimes statute applies when an assault or other listed crimes are committed “by reason of the actual or perceived race, color, creed, religion, ancestry, gender, sexual orientation, physical or mental disability” of the victim. And yet, despite one of the attackers clearly saying: “F**k white people!” as he, a black man, attacked a white man, the police were very concerned to undercut any argument that race played a role:
Chicago police say they don’t believe a man beaten in an assault broadcast live on Facebook was targeted because he was white.
Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said Thursday morning that charges are expected soon against four black suspects. Guglielmi says the suspects made “terrible racist statements” during the attack, but that investigators believe the victim was targeted because he has special needs, not because of his race.
These ill-advised statements weaken an argument that prosecutors would almost certainly want to use at the trial: that race (perhaps in addition to mental disability) was a motivating factor, based on the defendants’ own statements. It’s obvious that in a case like this, the video will serve as one of the most crucial pieces of evidence. When the mental state of the defendants is a key issue, the things they say on the video will count among the most powerful evidence of that mental state. I have not watched the entire video and probably will not, but at no point did I hear the suspects yell “F**k the mentally disabled!” or anything to that effect.
But they did yell “F**k white people!”
Now, when a prosecutor tries to argue the significance of that statement at trial, defense attorneys will find a way to bring up the public comments by the police spokesmen saying race is not what prompted the attack. Those comments are probably legally inadmissible. But the defense attorneys will find some way to get those comments before the jurors, properly or improperly — provided that the jurors have not already heard the comments on TV, or read them in the papers.
If I were the prosecutor on that case (and obviously I am not, and obviously I am speaking in my personal capacity here), I would be dressing down these cops. Fortunately for me, I have never worked with cops that would do something this dumb.
The Chicago cops do not appear to have learned their lesson, though.
Despite the comments about the president-elect, which prompted some online to refer to it as footage of a Trump supporter being attacked, police say there are no indications the attack was motivated by anything involving Trump.
“We have no evidence to suggest that the escalation of the attack was prompted by the President-elect or how the victim voted,” Anthony Guglielmi, a police spokesman, said in an email Thursday. “It certainly was part of the reprehensible comments but not what prompted the assault.”
How this guy can be so damned sure, I have no idea. But these comments further undercut the notion that the statements on the video are solid evidence of the defendants’ state of mind, and thus serve to further sabotage an argument that the crimes were motivated by race.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. And totally unnecessary.
[Cross-posted at RedState.]
In urban America of 2017 you don’t rise through the ranks in the public bureaucracy unless you sing loudly from the SJW hymnbook.
JVW (6e49ce) — 1/6/2017 @ 9:18 amPerhaps an edit?
If I were the prosecutor on that case (and obviously I am not, and obviously I am NOT speaking in my personal capacity here)
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/6/2017 @ 9:23 amI suspect that the cops are saying what they were told to say by management, which wants to be able to later say that a jury found no hate crime.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/6/2017 @ 9:25 amWhich comes down to the entire problem with “hate” crimes. Base statute on objectively stated actions, not the guess of what mindset was present. But at the moment it is about making the SJWs follow their own rules.
Loren (66de82) — 1/6/2017 @ 9:33 amThis is what happens when you try to build a consequence free society.
J Cass (5a4596) — 1/6/2017 @ 9:37 amThis whole affair has the potential of turning into another OJ trial. If the victim had not been able to break free and seek help, he would probably be dead by now. But already defense attorneys are commenting that we shouldn’t jump to conclusions, this was just a “play fight” gone wrong. I can see the words of the police would help promote this theory, as would the broadcast of the video by the perps. Just some good ghetto fun, Chicago style.
BobStewartatHome (c24491) — 1/6/2017 @ 9:43 amMore like teginald Denny, damian in that instance didn’t bring his own camera.
narciso (d1f714) — 1/6/2017 @ 9:49 am“This whole affair has the potential of turning into another OJ trial.”
BobStewartatHome,
I really doubt it. These feral felons have committed a sacrilege contra narrative on camera. The black community in Chicago is losing two people per day to savages and I find it difficult to believe a jury allow this group to return to the community quite so easily.
I can easily believe prosecutors would cut a deal to avoid trial and the Class X felony charge certainly gives them the ammunition necessary to exact a suitable penalty without trial.
Rick Ballard (bc0399) — 1/6/2017 @ 10:13 amNBC News: 9 shot, 1 dead at Ft. Lauderdale-Hollywood Airport.
Happy frigging New Year, USA.
Serenity now…
DCSCA (797bc0) — 1/6/2017 @ 10:30 amPolitical, political, political. And absolutely in character.
Do you really believe they fail to understand the consequences of their comments?
It’s who the cops, the FBI, the CIA, etc. have become.
It’s not that they’re stupid; it’s that they are not on your (or our) side.
ThOR (c9324e) — 1/6/2017 @ 10:41 amchicago piggies gonna do whatever the eff they want
it’s how they roll
the poor kid what escaped? He was found in the exact same neighborhood the piggies kept their secret prison
happyfeet (28a91b) — 1/6/2017 @ 10:51 amthe girl black lives matter torturers both have the same hairstyle and the boy black lives matter torturers both also have the same hairstyle
is this a thing now
happyfeet (28a91b) — 1/6/2017 @ 11:15 amI’ll defer to the lawyers who know more about this than I do, but my assumption is that the kidnapping charge is the most serious and the one that would add the most to a criminal sentence. That’s probably why the defense is trying to push the idea of the victim tagging along willingly with Hill and why they are claiming that all of this came about when a “play fight” got out of hand. It’s a ploy to try to get prosecution to drop the kidnapping charge in return for a plea to the other charges.
JVW (6e49ce) — 1/6/2017 @ 11:31 amRB, I hope you are right, but evidence can be mishandled and disallowed; and the perps will clean up nicely and may pass as misunderstood teenagers, as long as they can control themselves in front of the jury.
And don’t forget the need for proportional enforcement, a fundamental tenet of Social Justice. If all four are convicted, Chicago will have to find 30 or 40 white thugs guilty of similar crimes. The very size of the gang may pressure the prosecutors to be lenient.
BobStewartatHome (c24491) — 1/6/2017 @ 11:31 amSize of the gang who did it or size of the Gang nation they are a part of? If anything (HF), this dude needs to be leaned on hard to see how much (i.e. other criminals, other crimes) he can sing about:
http://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20170106/rogers-park/torture-video-facebook-young-pappy-pbg-gang-tesfaye-cooper
Its just as likely he gets offed by other gangbangers in fear of that happening.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 1/6/2017 @ 11:38 amExactly. The cops were practically acting as defense attorneys for the accused. And it’s happened in other black on white crimes.
Plenty of (at least some) members of the Community will have total sympathy for the perps. They were “just funnin.”
DN (21cace) — 1/6/2017 @ 11:41 ami definitely feel safer with Mr. Tesfaye off the streets
so maybe there’s a silver lining in all of this
happyfeet (28a91b) — 1/6/2017 @ 11:49 amIt was the victim who described it as starting from a “play fight” Of course when they enticed into this “play fight” the intention probably was to have him “lose” badly and tie him up..
Apparently at this stage they do not actually know who was in contact with the parents via text message (they can’t pin it on any of the four – or were there any more people there during the time the beating, clothes cutting, humiliating, scalping and semi-torturing was taking place?)
It is reported whoever it was said he was being held hostage, but nobody apparently had (yet) asked for ransom.
The video was taken off Facebook because it violates their term of service. Since Facebook started lve streaming in April, about 30 crimes have been live streamed if I understood what I read right.
Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd) — 1/6/2017 @ 11:53 amBy my estimation the beat cops at least did a good job. Clearly they noticed a distressed and injured white guy walking in a black neighborhood with no coat, knew something was wrong, got out of their squad car and did something about it. They called it a “field interview”. Then they connected him with a suburban department’s missing person report.
The rank and file of the Chicago police are not happy about the murder rate, about their reputations being besmirched by a few admittedly bad apples, and their hands being tied to fight crime via the BLM insanity. I think life will not be pleasant for these 4 perps no matter what their defense attorneys and certain pundits try to say about the circumstances. The streaming videos are the difference. The world has seen them. They show and carry the sounds of horrible egregious torture being documented. That doesn’t get nullified easily.
elissa (72ca79) — 1/6/2017 @ 11:54 amhappyfeet (28a91b) — 1/6/2017 @ 10:51 am
A possible purpose for such a secret off the books detention place is to enable informers or people who bribe some high ranking policemen to be let go without there being any record that they were ever arrested.
Sammy Finkelman (6c2cdd) — 1/6/2017 @ 12:07 pmBobStewartatHome,
I don’t disagree with anything in your 11:31 comment. My comment was solely directed at the OJ aspect of jury nullification. There is a slight possibility a jury might vote to return the savages to the community, if they did so, I would wish them the complete personal enjoyment of the return.
____________
I don’t know what “go easy” would entail on the part of the prosecutor. The Class X felony carries a mandatory minimum of six years – would trading for a guilty plea with a four year sentence be “going easy”? Is four years sufficient to convince the savages to modify their behavior? Is twenty?
The Obamason family problems won’t be going away any time soon. He’s going to dedicate the rest of his race hustling life to making sure they continue.
Rick Ballard (bc0399) — 1/6/2017 @ 12:10 pmThe eternal but fading in influence Rev. Jesse Jackson even said it right yesterday. And he still carries weight in the black community in Chicago.
elissa (72ca79) — 1/6/2017 @ 12:21 pmThat last bit at the end is where you lose me, when you express your disappointment and disbelief that the cops could be so stupid as to sabotage the prosecutor’s case. I mean, we’re all on the same side, aren’t we? The cops, the prosecutor, the judge, the jury, we all want to make sure the perp pays for his crime, right? Oh, sure, there’s that nonsense about presumption of innocence and all that, but we all know the defendant is guilty – why else would the cops have arrested him if he weren’t guilty? And sure, the prosecutor is an officer of the court with a duty to see that justice is done rather than a duty to see that every person accused of a crime is convicted. But we know the guy’s guilty and “fairness” is the prosecutor does his best to get a conviction and the defense does their best to get an acquittal – neither one of them has “following the rules” as a top priority. So the prosecutor maybe doesn’t question too closely whether the cops followed the rules in making the bust and gathering the evidence and the cops know this so maybe they don’t bother trying too hard to follow the rules. What’s a little bending of the rules if it’s for a good cause?
It’s this open presumption that the cops and the prosecutors are on the same side, when the prosecutor is supposed to be acting as a check on the abuse of authority by the cops. If the cops didn’t make a good bust, the prosecutor is supposed to check them on that rather than covering up for them, isn’t he? Add to that the fact that most judges come from the prosecution side and/or require the support of the cops and prosecutors to get elected and the judges who are supposed to be acting as a check on both the cops and the prosecutors are a wee bit biased the same way. You wind up with a system where results matter more than the process and the rules don’t really matter as long as you win.
At some point when the deplorables see the elites failing to follow the rules over and over and over and getting away with it, they might just get the idea that if the rules don’t apply to everybody then they don’t apply to anybody and it’s every man for himself. And then where will we be?
Jerryskids (3308c1) — 1/6/2017 @ 12:41 pmhttp://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/05/gregg-jarrett-chicago-torture-video-represents-two-distinct-kinds-hate-crimes-and-that-means-double-trouble-for-accused.html
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-facebook-live-attack-video-20170105-story.html
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 1/6/2017 @ 12:53 pmNO BAIL
A Cook County judge ordered no bail Friday for four people accused of broadcasting a live Facebook video of their alleged attack on a mentally disabled teen.
“I’m looking at each of you and wondering where was the sense of decency that each of you should have had?” Judge Maria Kuriakos Ciesil said. “I don’t see it.”
elissa (72ca79) — 1/6/2017 @ 1:02 pmOh, and here’s another tid bit or two. I don’t think what all happened with the neigbor following the attack on the kid is going to play well in the community either.
Jordan Hill, (the victim’s predator acquaintance) also demanded $300 from the victim’s mother after she contacted him over Facebook trying to find out her son’s whereabouts, prosecutors said.
Police believe the victim was tied up for four or five hours. He said the attackers became distracted after a downstairs neighbor complained about the noise and threatened to call 911, prompting a confrontation.
According a police report, the female neighbor went to the sisters’ apartment to ask them to keep the noise down, but an unknown woman who answered the door threw a punch at her but missed.
As the neighbor returned to her apartment, she heard someone say to go get a gun, the police report said. Moments later, the Covington sisters and Cooper kicked down the neighbor’s door, pulling it from its hinge, the report alleged.
The neighbor and her roommate fled out a back door and called 911. The Covingtons and Cooper gave chase down an alley but were spotted by police, according to the report.
elissa (72ca79) — 1/6/2017 @ 1:11 pm“What I like about the 0bama years is all the racial healing.”
Colonel Haiku (e3be5c) — 1/6/2017 @ 1:16 pmsound like the black lives matter torture unit got worked up into a racist anti-trump rage and got sloppy
happyfeet (28a91b) — 1/6/2017 @ 1:23 pmelissa, this gang was really off the rails. Chasing the neighbors down the alley after kicking in their door! Perhaps this is what we should expect when you mix an educational system that combines low accomplishment with artificially enhanced self-esteem, and proceeds to cap that experience with a sense of entitlement based on class membership. Then employ the products of this system in a black market based on illegal drugs. A potent mixture. And not as unusual as we might hope.
BobStewartatHome (c24491) — 1/6/2017 @ 2:25 pmPatterico– to the meat of your post—I am neither a lawyer nor play one on TV. I rarely opine on legal matters for that reason. I have mixed feelings in general about the need/concept of “hate crimes” because they seem so arbitrary. But if they are on the books then this crime surely seems to fit the bill. Earlier this afternoon the situation with these perps and the hate crime charge was described in the following way to me by an IL lawyer and it makes sense to me.
These people were charged by the State’s Attorney with multiple felonies which include aggravated kidnapping. The aggravated kidnapping is a class X felony, the most serious in Illinois. The hate crime is a class 3 felony. Adding the hate crime to the aggravated kidnapping (which she did) is like adding an unlawful use of firearm count to a murder charge. If they’re convicted of the aggravated kidnapping charge, the hate crime would be insignificant at sentencing.
It seems fair to say, then, that the “hate crime” charge adds emotional texture and paints a picture of reality about the criminal’s mind without changing what the crime itself was or how punishment will ultimately be meted out. It might affect a judge’s decision about bail though, I suppose. Is this the way you see it as well? And if so, I am curious why the cop’s statement rankled you so? Did you feel the cop’s statement might unduly influence the State’s Attorney with respect to deciding what charges to file? (You already stated that using the cop statement would be inadmissible in court. ) If I am missing something I am sure you will tell me!
elissa (6b7e67) — 1/6/2017 @ 3:19 pmThe police officers who testify about any statements the defendants made can be cross-examined about the entirety of the interrogation/conservation including whether the defendants said why they did it. What would be inadmissible would be the statements of the police spokespersons who had no contact with the defendants and “knew” only what they had been told by officers on the scene.
The hate crime is important because it goes to motive. For the aggravated kidnapping. As opposed, for example, to ransom or thrill crime.
The prosecution is not required to show motive, but it is very helpful in obtaining a conviction. Juries like motive. Something like this:
— Dindunuffin, why did you tie up and torture that boy?
— Answer 1. I hate white people.
— Answer 2. Oh man, I dindunuffin, we was just fooling around, you know? We din mean to hurt him none.
Hmm?
nk (dbc370) — 1/6/2017 @ 3:46 pmJust a note to defense attorneys: get your clients to not sneer at the camera. It would help them a lot.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/6/2017 @ 4:52 pmGive him an Obama haircut and buy him a blue suit with white shirt and tie from JC Penney for the trial.
nk (dbc370) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:04 pmThe tie would need to be a clip on, I’m sure.
nk (dbc370) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:05 pmi disdain these hateful blm sadists
happyfeet (28a91b) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:13 pmIt was the frails. It’s a safe bet that for every crook or a bit of dirty work that some cheap dame is at the bottom of it. The French guy who said “cherchez la femme” knew his onions. And I bet that’s the case here.
nemmy kaution (dbc370) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:21 pm??
I mean as opposed to official.
Patterico (115b1f) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:24 pmAnd I misread that as “professional”
?!
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:36 pmGotta sneer if you’ll soon be featured in the Smoking Gat.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:39 pm==Police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi ==
==What would be inadmissible would be the statements of the police spokespersons who had no contact with the defendants ==
Guglielmi apparently is the chief CPD spokesman. He is the Director of Communications & News Affairs at Chicago Police Department.
elissa (6b7e67) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:45 pmHe is the “PR spokesman” (media trained crisis go-to guy on TV who gets thrown out there to face yammering reporters while the case is unfolding) not the investigating cop or detective. You may think he’s bad at his job, or that he said too much, too soon–I can’t judge that, but as you said, nk, it’s the investigating cop who gets grilled on the stand not the spokesman.
In other police related news:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/01/06/gop-congressman-takes-down-colleagues-sponsored-art-depicting-police-as-pigs.html
elissa (6b7e67) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:56 pmoh i thought he said pumpernickel
happyfeet (28a91b) — 1/6/2017 @ 5:58 pmDoes a police spokesman generally carry a badge in a large city like Chicago, or are they civilians?
JVW (6e49ce) — 1/6/2017 @ 6:06 pmHow we get Trump, Part XLV:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CALIFORNIA_PRISONS_SEX_REASSIGNMENT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2017-01-06-14-46-34
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/6/2017 @ 6:31 pmOoops, that last was off topic. To the best of my knowledge none of the above are trans.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/6/2017 @ 6:35 pmYes, JVW, he would be a sworn officer. Civilians are relegated to low-level support services and often merely to supplement cops on desk duty. Except for Superintendent and the occasional and rare Deputy Superintendent, they all came up from patrolman by way of the police academy, too.
nk (dbc370) — 1/6/2017 @ 6:36 pmTo show you how far it goes, the nurse at the police academy who took my temperature, blood pressure and drew my blood was a cop; as was the guy who gave me my hearing test; and the blood technician who called me back for more tests. I don’t know about the MD and the dentist who examined me but my guess is that they were civilians under contract.
nk (dbc370) — 1/6/2017 @ 6:47 pmTo show you how far it goes, the nurse at the police academy who took my temperature, blood pressure and drew my blood was a cop; as was the guy who gave me my hearing test; and the blood technician who called me back for more tests.
Jeeze. Are the nurses required to carry a firearm while on duty? That would be pretty awesome, especially if it is in her garter belt under her short and tight nurse’s uniform (or have I been watching too much late night Cinemax?).
JVW (6e49ce) — 1/6/2017 @ 7:10 pmS&W Model 36, on her right hip in an inside the pants holster. Still very popular with Chicago cops for plainclothes and off-duty carry and as a backup. Ever watch Law and Order? What Lennie Briscoe carried.
nk (dbc370) — 1/6/2017 @ 7:38 pmAnd I don’t know what you watch on Cinemax, but even though she was wearing slacks, when she took my blood pressure it went from my usual 110/70 to 120/80.
nk (dbc370) — 1/6/2017 @ 7:45 pmHere’s a guy on his visit to The Windy City. Had fun, made new friends.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-42gIu_Gj5Nk/WG_NAmWXkuI/AAAAAAABEjA/inf6YrcpJTQtubJZAuE5rguCUph0VZ0rgCLcB/s640/ninetymilesr2H5qI1r54qfqo1_500.jpg
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 1/7/2017 @ 12:13 pmOh JVW, lol.
Patricia (5fc097) — 1/7/2017 @ 12:18 pm“If I were the prosecutor on that case (and obviously I am not, and obviously I am speaking in my personal capacity here), I would be dressing down these cops. Fortunately for me, I have never worked with cops that would do something this dumb.”
What – I thought you worked in LA
Joe (debac0) — 1/7/2017 @ 12:45 pmLenny Briscoe, that’s one cat deserving of the Governor Tarkin treatment. If L&O skipped the Italian era of the mid 2000s and rebooted in 2008, the Sisto/Anderson pairing might still be going strong. Though I gotta say Dick Wolf is not exactly bringing the reality with his Chicago “________” series.
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 1/7/2017 @ 1:09 pm