U.S. Abstains From U.N. Vote, Or As Jonah Goldberg Puts It: Obama’s One Last Flip Of The Bird To Israel
[guest post by Dana]
In an unprecedented diplomatic rebuke of Israel, the United States abstained Friday on a United Nations Security Council resolution demanding an end to Israeli settlements, allowing the highly charged measure to pass.
The resolution was approved 14-0 with the one abstention. The vote was greeted with loud applause in the packed Security Council chamber.
The measure demands Israel “immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem.” It declares the establishment of settlements by Israel has “no legal validity and constitutes a flagrant violation under international law.”
Samantha Power, ambassador to the U.N., (ironically) attempted to reassure Israel of continued support of the U.S. support:
“The U.S. has been sending the message that the settlements must stop, privately and publicly, for five decades,” Power said.
Settlement activity, she added, “harms the viability of a negotiated two-state outcome and erodes prospects for peace and stability in the region.”
At the same time, she said, “Our vote does not in any way diminish our steadfast and unparalleled commitment to the security of Israel.” Israel, she noted, “faces very serious threats in a very tough neighborhood.”
President-elect Trump, who had publicly pressured President Obama to veto the resolution, took to Twitter in response to the vote:
Finally, Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu vowed to remain fiercely defiant in the face of resolution:
Oh, and unbelievably, today President Obama marked the start of Hanukkah tomorrow, offering his good wishes to all who celebrate:
As night falls over each of the next eight days, Jews in the United States, Israel and around the world will gather to light their Hanukkah menorahs, display them proudly in the window and recall the miracles of both ancient times and the present day.
For more than two millennia, the story of Hanukkah has reminded the world of the Jewish people’s perseverance and the persistence of faith, even against daunting odds.
–Dana
One tiny little country against the world.
Dana (d17a61) — 12/23/2016 @ 3:19 pmObama gave his good wishes in Arabic.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 12/23/2016 @ 3:26 pmJust posted this on the DNC thread. But it belongs here. Many many unhappy Democrats are speaking up.
http://www.businessinsider.com/un-israel-vote-obama-democrats-2016-12
elissa (a0c7f2) — 12/23/2016 @ 3:39 pmGiven the attempts to get Trumpian input on this yesterday, the bird flipping may have been in the direction of Donald as much as in the direction of Bibi.
Criticise Obama, but note that all the other members of the SC voted in favor, including the UK and France, and New Zealand, Spain and Japan.
Kishnevi (4490a8) — 12/23/2016 @ 3:42 pmBTW, Chanukah starts tomorrow night, Christmas Eve.
Kishnevi (4490a8) — 12/23/2016 @ 3:45 pmYes it does, Kishnevi. I guess my wording could be a little clearer. BRB.
Dana (d17a61) — 12/23/2016 @ 3:52 pmBetter?
Dana (d17a61) — 12/23/2016 @ 3:54 pmWhen the chinese give up xinjiang, and the Russians the caucasus,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/23/2016 @ 3:56 pmClearer than the WH version (“the next eight days”).
Kishnevi (4490a8) — 12/23/2016 @ 4:00 pm8. Of course, the Palestinians would tell you “occupied territories” covers everything from Rosh Hanikra to Eilat.
Kishnevi (4490a8) — 12/23/2016 @ 4:02 pmBarack’s a nasty man.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/23/2016 @ 4:17 pmKishnevi, you’re a smart guy. Haven’t you figured out that anyone who supports Democrats doesn’t give a gnat what is actually done. It’s all about posturing and promising utopia. So all the prominent Democrats come forward to express their dismay over this ridiculous vote. If you are a conservative, you say “So what? Where’s the beef!” If you are Democrat you say “Right on Bro!” and try to figure out whether you want to feed the dog another marijuana-laced dog biscuit.
Your list of supporters of this resolution, the UK and France, and New Zealand, Spain and Japan is predictable. It is just another reminder that when the U. S. is seen as the instrument of a feckless, self-absorbed, man-child, operating with no adult supervision, the rest of the world goes about its business as usual. Which, despite all the elite agonizing about the intellectual distance between the U. S. and Europe, means mass slaughter is in the offing.
BobStewartatHome (c24491) — 12/23/2016 @ 4:38 pmEventually Europeans will be regarded as occupiers in their own country, now Japan’s part is a little bewildering.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/23/2016 @ 4:44 pmWhy can’t we just be done with it and admit that every acre of land on the planet belongs to Mohammedians?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/23/2016 @ 4:50 pmI noted the mauler dud not pretend to concern himself with aleppo, like the one in ankara
narciso (d1f714) — 12/23/2016 @ 4:56 pmJapan’s trying to keep the “diversity” wolves from their door. So far the worlds leftists only see predominantly white countries as needing diversity. The Japs want to keep it that way. The last thing they want is 4 million (fill in the blank of non-Asians) being shipped in and being told if they don’t like it they’re racist, xenophobic, yellow supremacists.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:21 pmWell they need oil from the gulf, and the north Korean basilisk is at their door
narciso (d1f714) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:25 pmLots of Jews voted for Obama twice already. Lots more voted for Hillary too. And given the chance most of them would do it all over again, even after today’s betrayal…
Now how in the hell can that be rationally explained?
ropelight (78afaa) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:30 pmHeh, from the Squids. (from: aherdofturtles.com) A Christmas song.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:32 pmhttps://youtu.be/SYNGK8VVpDY
Forgot the link.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:33 pmnarciso, Japan’s part is a little bewildering … It’s going to take them five or six years to rebuild a credible military. But I think they will succeed, and this is just some window dressing to keep the Kerrys and Merkels of this world anesthetized. Israel has probably figured out it is on its own, but then this has been the case since 1948. If Japan, Taiwan and South Korea could find a way to cooperate, they might even avoid being consumed by the Chinese, given time and nothing to interrupt their rearmament needs. And then there’s the Philippines puzzle.
Obama’s legacy.
BobStewartatHome (c24491) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:36 pmHoagie, you’re one up on Steve57!
Does Obama know what “his” military has been up to?
BobStewartatHome (c24491) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:42 pmIt can’t be although I once listened for two hours while Dennis Prager made a valiant attempt to do so. However, in the end even he was not persuasive. My first wife was a Jew and her entire family were educated, professionals and/or businesspeople and each and every one was a democrat and voted accordingly. When I asked them why they responded the democrats were for what they were for. I would laugh at them and respond: Funny, you don’t live like socialists. They just didn’t care.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:43 pm#18 ropelight, as Dennis Prager often says, the religion for left wing progressive Jews is not Judaism, rather, it’s progressivism.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:43 pmIf in doubt, one can almost always gauge which side of an issue is the right side to be on by taking the one that’s opposite of that taken by the 0bama administration.
Colonel Haiku (3bf827) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:43 pmIts called the constanza principle, and Steve would agree with you on the particulars.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:45 pmHa, ha, Rev Hoagie, you and I were both writing about Dennis Prager at the very same moment. I think Dennis explains it very nicely and I think your anecdote about your first wife’s family supports Dennis’ thesis.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:45 pmAs I’ve said before, BobStewartatHome, our country is big and we have big hearts. We can accept many, many different ethnicities as long as they want to be Americans. Once the ethnic diversity becomes “cultural” diversity it becomes anti American sedition. Come here, join us, be one with us, but don’t try to make us you. If you are offended because America was founded by straight, white, Christian men then I suggest you immigrate elsewhere. Nobody has a right to come into America except an American. And right now, just like 2,000 years or so ago, there is no room at the inn.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 12/23/2016 @ 5:54 pmCruz Supporter, my first wife was a Jew but somewhere along the line she was baptized and became a born again Christian. She also became a Republican. Coincidence? I think not.
I’ll tell you one thing. She died of brain cancer at 40 and had absolutely zero fear. I held her hand as she died and it’s the only time in my adult life I cried.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:00 pmRopelight, Rev H, CS, your question is valid, but the answer is multipart.
In part, it’s an inheritance. I’m the first person in my family (I think: my cousin in NH makes interesting comments on FB that suggest she may be a budding Republican) to not vote straight ticket Democrat. That includes my parents, sunts, uncles, and grandparents, and goes back in time to at WWII, when my grandmother became a citizen for the sole purpose of voting for FDR (she had already been here for thirty or forty years: my grandparents were married in Boston in 1911–on July 4). Republicans were rich people and big business who wanted to stomp on the little guy.
And even I remain a registered Democrat for pragmatic purposes, and have cast more votes for Libertarian candidates than Republican ones.
And in Europe, especially in Russia, it was the anarchosocialist left which was most Jew friendly. Not only in Russia. In France the Dreyfus Affair ended up as a struggle between the proDreyfus Left and the anti Dreyfus Right, which was strongly proArmy, proChurch, anti-Semitic.
That lingered on in this country.
And then there’s the religious part. To put it in plain words, Jewish culture often premised the subordination of the individual to the community– in part because the way things were organized in Europe and earlier (going back to Talmudic times). But also because it’s far easier to read a Progressive program into the Torah than it is capitalism. Scripture is heavy on regulation, limits to competition and property rights (like the idea that all agricultural land in effect reverts to the original owner’s heirs every Jubilee) and other ideas central to capitalism– such as interest on loans. And these things were greatly expanded on in rabbinic law.
So there’s not an inherent distaste for the Left, only the issue of Israel. Which is why one’s feelings for Israel are a good indication of how one feels about Obama. And even then, local causes can still affect local candidates. The Leftist who primaried Wasserman Schultz could credibly claim to be at least as proIsrael as she was, since he is the offspring of a mixed Jewish-Italian marriage, and his platform statement was vigorously, if not very specific,proIsrael.
And finally, the Israeli and American Right have over time become allies. So a lot of Jews who don’t like Bibi gravitate to the opponent of his American ally.
(Sorry for the long comment)
Kishnevi (86e9bc) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:31 pmA lame duck president whose party just lost is a caretaker. He is supposed to keep things running, and maybe tries to pack a few courts, but major policy initiatives are quite unexpected. This would like Bush Jr recognizing Taiwan on his way out the door.
Shameful, never mind the issue.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:34 pmAt least Obama had Israel’s back in the Iran not-treaty negotiations.
BTW, we need a constitutional amendment specifying that any international agreement lasting more than 4 years is a treaty.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:37 pmAnd even I remain a registered Democrat for pragmatic purposes, and have cast more votes for Libertarian candidates than Republican ones.
Mr. Trump still loves you and wants you to be happy
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:37 pmGreetings:
More like a thumb in the eye than a flip of the bird. President Obama seems to have acquired layers and layers of hate.
11B40 (6abb5c) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:38 pmtrash will out Mr. 40
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:40 pmBTW, Carrie Fisher is in hospital after full cardiac arrest on an airplane, 15 minutes before landing at LAX.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:40 pmI truly hope that Trump asks the Secret Service boss who his worst fukups are and assigns them to Obama.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:42 pmNow how in the hell can that be rationally explained?
And these are the same people who will go on about how working men shouldn’t vote for Republicans.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:43 pmThen there’s rocket surgeon, till stiffen, of hamburg, the one city you should think would be more selfaware.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/23/2016 @ 6:54 pmO
For eight years, Obama has been trying to stop the spread of the settlements and Israel has been flipping him the bird. Remember Jeanne Kirkpatrick? She was Reagan’s ambassador to the UN. She believed that there should be consequences, even on friends and allies, when they oppose the United States. This is a very minor slap. It’s not like Obama imposed sanctions on Israel.
BTW, I think that Trump also wants Israel to stop the settlements because he sees them as an obstacle to a two-state solution which he views as the best solution. He just doesn’t want the UN to be the one telling Israel what to do.
nk (dbc370) — 12/23/2016 @ 7:40 pm#40 nk, this is actually a big deal because America has a veto on the Security Council, and we intentionally did not utilize that tool.
Israel doesn’t require Barack’s permission to build settlements in Israel.
For eight years, Barack has ignored federal laws protecting sovereignty of his own nation’s borders, so it’s absurd for him to lecture Israel about their borders.
China is violating all sorts of “international” laws in the China South Seas, particularly in regards to establishing islands. China has also been pulling all sorts of crap with Taiwan and Tibet. North Korea has been pulling all sorts of crap with South Korea.
Syria is literally on fire.
Russia just had its Ambassador murdered in an art gallery in Ankara.
There are all sorts of wars going on in Africa.
Yet which “crisis” does Barack and his international buddies at the U.N. place a bull’s eye on?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/23/2016 @ 7:59 pmIsrael.
I’d make it work for me.
As usual, over egged show biz frauds and cowards have lined up for a spot on their soap box to thump their chest about not performing at the Trump inauguration.
For every reluctant performer, who would rather play Dubai than the inaugural, would rather back bus bombers than Israel, I think the money which would ahve otherwise lined their pocket would be better spent having that fact pointed out vigorously, perhaps on the cover of the National Enquirer next to every check out aisle in America.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/23/2016 @ 8:03 pmHow is it possible that the handmaiden of the Neo-Nazi alt-Right, our President-elect, is standing up for Israel? Unbelievable! (In the same “unbelieveable” sense used in the Princess Bride).
How’s that cognitive dissonance going?
ThOR (c9324e) — 12/23/2016 @ 8:40 pmI think we know who the Jew-haters are and are not.
ThOR (c9324e) — 12/23/2016 @ 8:41 pmAnyone recall the most famous abstention at the UNSC? The USSR refused to take part in UN activity. The Korean police action came up for consideration. Oopsie. The USA got it through and the Reds were thwarted.
Gonna be very interesting as DJT sets up our embassy in Jerusalem. Do y’all really think he will tell Israel to withdraw from, and not make any new, settlements? I sure don’t. He’s spoken forcefully on many occasions as to how land for peace is a fantasy.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/23/2016 @ 9:36 pmHugh Hewitt tweeted earlier that now’s a good time for the Los Angeles Times to finally release the videotape of Barack toasting Rashid Khalidi.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/23/2016 @ 10:11 pmHow is it possible that the handmaiden of the Neo-Nazi alt-Right, our President-elect, is standing up for Israel?
Only idiots would consider Trump antisemitic. But that does not exclude alt.here_doggie_here_doggie. They think they’ve found their Grosse Weisse Hoffnung.
nk (dbc370) — 12/24/2016 @ 3:38 amThe little exposed part of this whole story is the fact that this resolution was introduced by Egypt, but it was engineered and pushed by the US.
When they were prepared to vote on it Thursday, Trump made a call to the Egyptian President, and after that Egypt withdrew the resolution.
How is it then that the resolution is re-introduced on Friday, for the sole purpose of the Obama Admin. having the chance to “Abstain” for the first time.
If Obama had any real political guts he would have instructed Powers to vote in favor of the resolution — that’s what he really thinks.
So, not only is it a “backstab”, its a cowardly backstab too.
He can’t exit fast enough. For a guy who rode into office on the belief and expectation that he was going to be a transformative figure who was going to lead a Progressive evolution in US politics, I really think he’s going to be found by history to have been not just ineffective, but really one of the worst Presidents in history.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 12/24/2016 @ 7:28 amthis shows a lot how food stamp will piss away any goodwill he has in his post-presidency
he’s a petty little harvardtrash mattress girl inside all up in him where his dignity and integrity is supposed to be
a virulently anti-semitic harvardtrash mattress girl
ho ho ho who wouldn’t go
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/24/2016 @ 7:33 amshipwreckedcrew, he did “lead a progressive evolution in US politics” that’s how he became “one of the worst Presidents in history”. He tried to do to America what the progressives have done to Chicago. It’s what they do.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 12/24/2016 @ 7:50 amWe always knew that Barack hates Israel.
His close associations with Israel-hating moonbats was always too coincidental for someone who is always making allegations of “guilt by association” about his opponents. There’s a reason the Los Angeles Times locked up that video footage of Barack toasting Rashid Khalidi way back in the day.
And Barack foreshadowed this day in his June 2009 speech in Cairo.
He’s such passive-aggressive harvardlawtrash.
As shipwreckedcrew points out, voting to abstain does exactly the same to block the resolution as voting ‘yes’ (in other words, an abstention still enables the resolution to pass the Security Council) but Barack isn’t man enough to stand behind a “yes” vote.
He had 7 years + 11 months to do this. He knew he couldn’t do this before the 2010 midterms, before the 2012 re-election bid, before the 2014 midterms, or before the 2016 elections because it would risk angering voters. He waited until he was the lamest of ducks with no immediate electoral consequences for him or his party.
Barack and his Left wing punk friends promote a “sky is falling!” hysteria to nearly every issue whether it’s climate “change” or fair-trade coffee imports or this war or that war — the Left always takes a side.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/24/2016 @ 8:40 amBut there’s one issue where they use the language of saying we need to be “even-handed,” and “not take sides.”
And that’s the question of Israel VS its blood-thirsty neighbors who say they want the Jewish state wiped off the map.
46… yes, it would be. Now that Obama has nothing to gain from donning a yarmulke and touching the Wall, i.e., appearing to support Israel, it’s past time to let it all hang out.
Colonel Haiku (3bf827) — 12/24/2016 @ 9:10 am#30, kishnevi, thanks for the thoughtful response, it helps to understand the apparently inexplicable.
ropelight (78afaa) — 12/24/2016 @ 9:38 amIt’s not even Christmas yet; they’ll still be playing “Hail to the Chief” for Obama for another month yet. Obama can read the calendar, and his timing, if not always sublime, is certainly sure to be adequate: There are pardons, “irrevocable” executive orders, and other such nonsense yet to come. Expect Obama to take full and hyper-aggressive advantage of the powers of the presidency every day between now and Trump taking the oath. And he’s no longer worried about blow-back or political collateral damage/friendly fire.
Therefore the biggest (and most offensive) surprises are yet to come.
Beldar (fa637a) — 12/24/2016 @ 10:10 amWill he commute Blago’s sentence?
elissa (ac088c) — 12/24/2016 @ 10:23 amInconceivable!
https://youtu.be/OHVjs4aobqs
Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83) — 12/24/2016 @ 10:24 amIt was Omaba’s FBI that investigated Blagojevich for trying to horn in on the sale of Obama’s Senate seat. Obama’s DOJ that prosecuted him. Obama’s DOJ that fought Blagojevich’s appeals and successfully prevented him from getting a sentence reduction.
I predict no pardon for Blago.
Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83) — 12/24/2016 @ 10:28 amI wonder what you mean by this. There’s no such thing, but your use of quotes suggest you are getting at something else.
Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83) — 12/24/2016 @ 10:34 am#58 Anon Y. Mous, I think Beldar’s implying that the Left always sees a Democrat President’s executive orders as inherent settled law which can never be rescinded by a future President, whereas on the other hand the Left will say President Trump has exceeded his executive powers if he gives permission to keep the White House tennis court lights on after 9PM.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/24/2016 @ 10:56 amthis is what he means i think Mr. Mous
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/24/2016 @ 10:58 amYes and he has social animus for the 49th state.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/24/2016 @ 11:11 amhave you watched the travelers thing on the netflix
so far is not too bad
it has Mr. Willengrace in it i think he produced it
for some reason though they didn’t cast anyone particularly attractive in any of the roles
maybe they’re saving the cute people for season 2
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/24/2016 @ 11:21 amOf course, agency regulations are not EO’s, so it is true that Trump won’t be able to overturn a non-EO with an EO. But, it is also true there are other ways to deal with agency rules. The agency itself can promulgate new rules, and Congress itself has its own mechanism to deal with these abuses.
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/11/trump-and-next-congress-could-quickly-erase-scores-major-regulations
Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83) — 12/24/2016 @ 11:27 amDon’t get Netflix anymore so settle for timeless and legends of tomorrow.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/24/2016 @ 11:28 ami tried legends then they had – i think it was that chick with the fish mouth preach at me about climate change
DONE
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/24/2016 @ 11:32 ammy prime is lapsing end of Jan i should go see if there’s anything i need to finish
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/24/2016 @ 11:34 amI’m in the middle of a Smallville binge.
Please excuse the Super references in the next few days.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/24/2016 @ 12:31 pmThat might have been another corner if the arrowverse.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/24/2016 @ 2:16 pmBobStewartatHome (c24491) — 12/23/2016 @ 4:38 pm
That same day, the security Council refused to pass (theer was no veto, just insufficient votes for) a U.S. sponsored resolution about South Sudan.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/full-text-of-us-envoy-samantha-powers-speech-after-abstention-on-anti-settlement-vote/
But this should not have been surprising to Samantha Power. The United Nations is on the side of the murderers and the torturers, poverty and war. They voted to make war and terrorism easier to justify, despite the disclaimer, despite the fact that she says it “addressed counterproductive actions by Palestinians,” which it did not, and which is far more than merely counterproductive.
It condemned “all acts of violence against civilians, including acts of terror, as well as all acts of provocation, incitement and destruction.” It didn’t say Arabs were doing it, and the people doing it honored and paid by the Palestinian government in Ramallah. It called for “both parties” to refrain from provocative actions, incitement and inflammatory rhetoric” and didn’t describe what that was, or who was doing more of it, if not all of it. It called for two democratic States, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace within secure and recognized borders, and called for ” credible negotiations on all final status issues in the Middle East peace process and within the time frame specified by the Quartet in its statement of 21 September 2010″ – and somehow didn’t notice that Hamas rules Gaza.
This resolution has no purpose except to blame Israel for the lack of a final settlement, and to help guarantee that nothing happens to make that closer.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/24/2016 @ 7:53 pmWhat happened here was that Obama Administration bought the excuses for lack of co-operation witn the United States in other matters (supposedly what is called the Israel-Palestine issue) and wwell as the excuse for lack of progress (expansion of settlements, which isn’t really happening.)
This resolution boldly LIES.
It is simply a lie to claim that anything now is making a territorial compromise less likely because nothing is changing much and nothing has in years. There was, that is, no cause related to events on the ground for this resolution to be passed now.
But that lie is not any kind of international law.
Now the resolution can be interpreted as basically saying nothing, or nothing that hasn’t been said before. And it should be treated that way. There are just a few points where it may go beyond that. But it is kind of vague.
The settlements are not an obstacle to peace, even if you can say they once were.
Opposition to the settlements on anything other than practical grounds, and including East Jerusalem as a settlement, is an obstacle to peace.
Yes, Israeli settlement activities dangerously imperil the viability of the two-State solution based on the 1967 lines. But that kind of settlement has long not been viable. It never was, not ever, not even from the day when East Jerusalem was captured by Israel because Israel was never going to give that back to be desecrated – with the caveat that possibly there was a half year window when that might have been remotely possible – and Security Council Resoluton 242 was written with that in mind.
Of course the U.S. understands “based on” as meaning it can deviate from the 1967 lines. In another place the resolution “Underlines that it will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the parties through negotiations”
“Other than” means it recognizes that as a possibility and nobody ever thought you could have a recognized boundary without mutual agreement.
Here this may be intended to rule out annexation.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/24/2016 @ 8:21 pmOddly they ignore that china is backing salva kiar of south Sudan, why does Ms power leave out that reality?
narciso (d1f714) — 12/24/2016 @ 8:22 pmSamantha Power said that if every settlement were to disappear, “peace still would not be attainable without both sides acknowledging uncomfortable truths and making difficult choices.”
She wasn’t willing to state what those uncomfortable truths might be. If the United States can’t say it, can any Arab?
Now by both sides she means the Arab side. And the fact that she cannot plainly say that, is part of the problem. Attempting to split the difference is also part of the problem.
Some of the uncomfortable truths are that they tell a great deal of lies about Israel, and nobody can freely and safely dispute any of them; and that the Arab side, and not Israel is solely responsible for the continuation of the conflict, and that the greater the connection with Israel an area has with Israel, the greater the security from tyranny in that place. Of course since the UN is in favor of tyrants and run by tyrants or people who want to get along with them, they are against that.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/24/2016 @ 8:25 pmSammeh you are as maddening as that k 250 droid, not long ago, fatal entertained a coalition with hamas
narciso (d1f714) — 12/24/2016 @ 8:29 pmThey are really two separate entities.
Yes, all this talk of negotitions ignores what Fatah really is.
The best that can be said of it is that it is corrupt, and a puppet of various Arab states, who demand a permanent settlement while at the same time acting to make it impossible.
Abbas has said he cannot do anything against the Arab League but the arab League is not supposed to be the entity Israel is supposed to negotiate with.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/24/2016 @ 8:34 pmFatah was founded by the soviet’s with arafat being a guru (sakharovsky) per pacepa, his deputy abbas was kgb
narciso (d1f714) — 12/24/2016 @ 8:39 pmThat Fatah-Hamas unity government was just a pretence, so that some governments could pretend that portions of the West Bank and Gaza are ruled by a single entity. I didn’t even consider that unity government when I was writing. It was a nullity.
Meanwhile, neither is democratic, and if it wasn’t for Israel, Hamas might very well have taken over the area Fatah rules. Samantha Power said: “Israelis are rightfully concerned about making sure there is not a new terrorist haven next door.” But she hasn’t said how that’s supposed to prevented without Israeli interference in internal Arab affairs. Israel, in a peace treaty, could guarantee the nature of an Arab government, but I am not sure anybody criticizing Israel is looking for that.
Here is the resolution:
Samantha Powers imagines it to be saying things it doesn’t say.
Just where is this:
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.761030
Maybe someone can point out to me just where this is crystal clear.
You know, I think there is a possibility that Samantha Powers didn’t really want to vote for this thing. She even says:
But elsewhere she says this is designed to prevent the possibility of permanently destroying the hope of a two-state solution. If that’s the case, why would anybody think the United States is giving up on it?
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/24/2016 @ 9:12 pmThe whole thing was started about what – 1964? I thought it was under the sponsorship of Nasser of Egypt – but Nasser at that time was under strong Soviet influence – I mean his ntelligence director eas Soviet agent, I think. Nasser was one of the 3 founders of the “non-aligned” movement -the others were Tito of Yugoslavia and Nehru of India. But that whole idea was a lie.
They earlier pushed out the Mufti of Jerusalem.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/24/2016 @ 9:16 pmYes that’s about the size if it, arafat sent German educated son of mufti aide salameh to organize black September, the wasfi tal hit strikingly similar to that of ambassador karkov.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/24/2016 @ 9:19 pmThe most serious part of the resolution maybe is where it calls upon all nations to distinguish between goods made in Israel and goods made in territories occupied since 1967, a very live controversy right now. It says “in their relevant dealings” but that’s what it is talking about.
But it doesn’t demand that.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/24/2016 @ 9:19 pmThe Turkish government is blaming the Gulen organization for killing the Russian Ambassador to Turkey, but it doesn’t have to be connected to anybody. The killer used to be connected maybe. he had books on both Gulen and al Qaeda at home.
Nobody would be pushing for a permanent settlement involving Israel any time soon, except that some people either want to accomodate Arab governments or believe their lies about what’s keeping them from a stronger alliance with the United States against terrorism or something like that.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/24/2016 @ 9:26 pmObama is more like Carter every day (but still worse): didn’t Carter announce establishing diplomatic relations with China and revoking recognition of Taiwan on the day Congress left for Christmas recess? Now Obama does the same thing in the timing of this UN vote.
Ken in Camarillo (17aa36) — 12/25/2016 @ 12:15 amKen in Camarillo (17aa36) — 12/25/2016 @ 12:15 am
I didn’t remember the time, except that it was at the beginning of 1979, which was in he middle of hiis term.
This web site https://history.state.gov/milestones/1977-1980/china-policy says that Carter announced that on December 15, 1978, but it was effective January 1, 1079. Carter also tore up the 1954 Mutual Defense Treaty (from which I learned that presdients can annul treaties) which was even more serious, but he replaced it with something else. Beijing, of course, is trying to undermine it.
I’m not sure what the relevance was of Congress being outof session. Congress couldn’t do anything anyway.
This was 8 years after Nixon made the first agreement with the government of Red China in which he first replaced Taiwan at the United Nations with Peking (it wasn’t yet spelled Beijing) George Bush (the Elder) was the ambassador to the United Nations at the time, and I thought he was a fool the way he talked, and nothing in the subsequent years changed my mind. Nixon also sent a liason office to Peking, which was first headed by George Bush. Carter switched that around in 1979, for no good purpose.
Nixon felt he owed George Bush because he had persuaded George Bush to give up a House seat and run for he senate in Texas in 1970, and he lost. ALl of the House members, Nixon recruited lost except Bill Brock in Tennessee. President Ford later, in the fall of 1975, as part of the “Halloween Massacre” made his fellow-former Conggressman Director of the CIA. Bush kept on rising and rising well above his level of incompetence. He didn’t stop when he reached it.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/25/2016 @ 7:15 amAnother important lie in the resolution is the declaration, offered wiithout any reasoning or proof, that the status quo is not sustainable. Well, everyone had better hope that thw stats quo is sustainable because the only realistic alternatives are worse for everyone.
The resolution offers as an alternative the idea of two democratic States, Israel and Palestine, live side by side in peace within secure and recognized borders, , but every informed person knows that is not in the cards. The chief alternative to the status quo is war ands terrorism.
The resoluton not only claims that the status quo is not sustainable but that urgent steps are needed to stabilize the situation and to reverse negative trends on the ground and create the conditios for final stats negotiations. It’s a lie that anything of this sort would make final status negotiations easier. It’s a lie that final status negotiations are at all possible now.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/25/2016 @ 9:50 amBlog post saying this resolution doesn’t really amount to anything.
http://www.deprogramprogram.com/those-pesky-un-resolutions
It does call settlements illegal, (using a very problematic interpretation of Fourth Geneva Convention, but the Security Council has no judicial authority. Even calling them illegal, it doesn’t demand their immediate dismantlement, and doesn’t even say tat their acceptance can’t be negotiated. It also calls on nations to treat the area outside of the 1967 borders differently, but this is not binding in any way.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/25/2016 @ 12:58 pmOne of those who lobbied for that original resolution. Was adnan pachachi, Iraq’s envoy, who state saw as a viable figurehead 36 years later.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 1:02 pmMy friend in the beltway has some thoughts.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 1:03 pmhttp://lidblog.com/no-such-thing-pre-1967-borders
Notes that there was never was any intention on the part of the United Nations Security Council, back in 1967, for Israel to move back to he 1967 borders, which excluded the important and historical parts of Jerusalem, in a final settlement.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/25/2016 @ 1:05 pmAnyone who uses the phrase “two-state solution” is talking about an alteration from the 1967 borders.
Sammy Finkelman (55138d) — 12/25/2016 @ 1:08 pmR.I.P. George Michael
Icy (354ab8) — 12/25/2016 @ 3:10 pmAnd behind no 2, lurch may be planning a further ambush in Paris.8
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 4:30 pmLurking the city in a Robin Hood costume.
If I were Kent, I’d so cap on Oliver.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/25/2016 @ 5:40 pmYes star city and gotham and metropolis is are all troubled burgs.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 5:54 pmMen in tights. Well, whatever turns you on.
The original Bat and Spider of the pulps dressed in black overcoats and fedoras with a mask over their face (like the TV Green Hornet). I want to say that Superman was the first but there had already been Douglas Fairbanks and Errol Flynn swashing their buckles.
nk (dbc370) — 12/25/2016 @ 6:04 pmOne can take them as noir, the green hornet is supposed to be the urban version of the ranger, a descendant.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 6:07 pmI liked Cato.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/25/2016 @ 6:14 pmWell, yeah, he was Bruce Lee! 😉
It was years after the show went off the air that I learned about the original Roman Catos. I thought Kato was a made-up Oriental name like Mako and Moto.
nk (dbc370) — 12/25/2016 @ 6:18 pmIn the modern incarnation, wuurn is somewhat of a special operative, dealing with ttiafs and bratva. Not to mention one crazed herculran ex asis man
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 6:27 pmWe need to hire somebody to translate narciso.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/25/2016 @ 7:13 pmSorry Oliver queen, the green arrow, created two years after bob kane.
Walter Russell mead notes a paradox.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 7:16 pmI would say a seeming paradox.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 7:20 pmTriads, autocorrect is good for nothing.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 7:26 pmIs that clearer, ledeen suggests we are in serious danger till the 20th
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 7:32 pmSooooooo, seasoned crooks doubled over with laughter being just another arrow in the quiver?
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/25/2016 @ 8:13 pmIts psychology as with batman, plus info was his strongest tool, like the shadow he picked knowledge and insight in the east,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/25/2016 @ 8:56 pm