Report: Tillerson Skeptical of Bolton
The revelation comes in a New York Times piece about Republican opposition to Bolton. After discussing the misgivings of Senator Bob Corker, and the outright opposition of Rand Paul, the article tells us:
Mr. Bolton, a State Department official under Mr. Bush who also served for a short time as United Nations ambassador, is also facing stiff resistance from some of the Republican Party’s best-known leaders in world affairs — some of them veterans of the Bush White House who often found themselves at odds with him during that period.
They include Condoleezza Rice, the former secretary of state and national security adviser, who clashed with Mr. Cheney; Robert M. Gates, a former secretary of defense; and Stephen J. Hadley, also a former national security adviser, according to two people with knowledge of their thinking who asked not to be identified.
Another impediment is that Mr. Tillerson has expressed misgivings about having Mr. Bolton as his deputy, according to a person who has spoken with Mr. Trump in recent days. But Mr. Bolton remains under consideration for the job.
The story comes from the New York Times and is co-authored by Maggie Haberman, the reporter considered reliable by the Hillary crowd. The detail about Tillerson is based on a single anonymous source. However, it’s corroborated by the opposition of Rice, Gates, and Hadley — all people who vocally supported Tillerson for the State post.
Why Tillerson dislikes Bolton is unclear. One wonders if Bolton’s hawkish stance on Russia is the problem for Tillerson, the recipient of an Order of Friendship medal from Putin. But that very hostility to Putin and Russia would be comforting to folks who are worried that the selection of Tillerson signals a willingness to roll over and let Uncle Vlad rub America’s belly.
It will be interesting to see how Trump handles this.
[Cross-posted at RedState.]
Well, John Bolton has not been officially named yet. On the other hand, there’s a reason for Bolton – Trump was considering an outsider like Romney or Tillerson in part because he would have an knowledgale and experienced deputy.
The real problem they probably have with him is probably him having a different opinion about Syria – and other matters, but it comes to a head immediately with Syria – although Bolton probaby indicated he is and was willing to defer so long as he wasn’t tasked with any negotiating.
Tillerson was brought in to negotiate – not because of his big experience, although he has some famiiarity with various governments – not so much the nuts and bolts of things and the peculiar things only the State Department deals with.
Bolton was actually originally under consideration for Secretary of State, not Undersecretary, and he evidently declined the top job because of some reservations about policy, which is something most of the people Trump talked to also had.
The problem is that Trump wants stabiliy, not only in the sense of avoiding a fresh war – actually, nobody wants to overthrow governments by use of military force, as a rule — they didn’t get rid of Communism that way, but they did help get rid of it – Voice of America, military strength and so on, till something changed in the Soviet Union. They also supported rebels and resistance once a war had broken out.
Trump seems to want stability not merely in the sense of avoiding military conflict but in the sense of making deals with tyrannical regimes (and winding up being complicit with them, and/or trusting them – except maybe Iran.)
Sammy Finkelman (dfe091) — 12/15/2016 @ 11:11 amsmells like too good to check fake news
happyfeet (d5eec6) — 12/15/2016 @ 11:11 amHawkish stance on Russia? Bolton seens to have a hawkish stance on everything–which may well bother a lot of people, including Trump.
Kishnevi (092167) — 12/15/2016 @ 11:19 amWhy Tillerson dislikes Bolton is unclear.
It’s quite clear.
Tillerson is a pragmatist. Like Trump. Revoltin’ Bolton is an ideologue.
His chance for the gig has been deep-sixed. Thank God.
“Torpedo Los!” – ‘Action In The North Atlantic’ 1943
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/15/2016 @ 11:32 amI’m skeptical of The New York Times.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/15/2016 @ 11:36 amthere is no such thing as torpedo los
happyfeet (a037ad) — 12/15/2016 @ 11:58 amThat the Tillerson crowd would dislike Bolton and vice versa would seem to be self-evident. It’s a feature, not a bug. Haven’t we had enough of a Washington mono-culture? To think, most Presidents elect seek to surround themselves with single minded, yes men. I was expecting no different from Trump and probably worse.
I like the good cop/bad cop aspect of the Tillerson/Bolton nominations. I’m sure others do too. This is just one more example of the clever strategy insights of whoever is in charge of selecting candidates. Pence, maybe?
I wasn’t sure what to expect from Trump, but I sure wasn’t expecting to be so impressed with appointee selection process. Trump’s off to a good start.
ThOR (c9324e) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:22 pmThe NYT and/or WashPo are not sources that I, personally, find to be credible.
Colonel Haiku (97db13) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:28 pmI like Mr John Bolton.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:33 pmHe can watch the movie and determine who the bad guys are.
“Alright, people, all this stuff keeps making us look bad in the news. How can we convince the chumpkins to ignore news we don’t like?”
…
…
“Well… what if we call it ‘fake news'”?
…
…
“My God. That’s brilliant.”
Leviticus (efada1) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:44 pmAnn Althouse provides a top-notch example of how to be skeptical of fake news stories in the new york times
i love how smart she is
happyfeet (a037ad) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:46 pm@Leviticus: After all the lies and exaggerations the media related for partisan advantage this year, I think some critical thinking is in order.
Remember how every media outlet independently and totally didn’t coordinate on calling Trump’s primary speech “dark”?
That’s just one example. Journolist is alive and well, and operating out in the open.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:47 pmTillerson was probably fine with Bolton until the Bushies whispered in his ear.
crazy (d3b449) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:51 pm“NeverTrump Radio Host Announces He’s Stepping Down Because He Doesn’t Believe in the Conservative Movement Any Longer, In the New York Times, Naturally.”
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/367382.php
Colonel Haiku (97db13) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:59 pm10… PT Barnum’s old adage in action…
Colonel Haiku (97db13) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:01 pm@Col. :“NeverTrump Radio Host Announces He’s Stepping Down Because He Doesn’t Believe in the Conservative Movement Any Longer, In the New York Times, Naturally.”
There’s a lot of money in the Strange New Respect niche. People like Andrew Sullivan and David Brock have done well out of it.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:05 pm9.I like Mr John Bolton.
Only when he’s yucking it up on ‘Red Eye’ or messing it up skateboarding on ‘Fox & Friends.’ Next to Rick Perry, he is Neocon comedy gold.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:31 pmDCSCA, Mr Bolton’s not a neocon.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:37 pmBolton was not a neocon, his roots go back to goldwater, as arms control chief, he was skeptical of enemy nation claims like n Korea and Cuba.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:38 pmGeneral Kellogg and Monica crowley’s selection are inspired.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:42 pmWith tillerson, as with scowcroft his ties to major powers like Russia and the kingdom, makes them adverse to criticize them.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:46 pmNarciso, could you decrypt that last phrase. Who is adverse to criticize whom?
Kishnevi (70c5bd) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:49 pmTilletson like Hadley is likely to take these declaration at face value, ignoring subrosa agendas of svr or general intelligence.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:54 pm@18. Except he is. And funny, too.
But in the spirit of the holidays, let’s agree to disagree.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:57 pmRemembering the riff about ‘diplomacy about going abroad and lying for your country’
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 1:58 pm@13.
Tillerson likely dines on Broiled Bolton in the Exxon-Mobil executive dining room.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/15/2016 @ 2:00 pmFog horn corker is example of one, who accepts others profession, like that of the Syrian rebels or the sepah
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 2:01 pmDCSCA, how is Mr Bolton a “neocon”?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/15/2016 @ 2:09 pmWell he’s not Jewish, and he’s less totally focused on regime chime, via a vis say Elliott abrams
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 2:26 pmPence is going to lose this power struggle against Reince and the outside squishes and congress critters.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2016 @ 2:26 pmCould Tillerson be “opposed” because he doesn’t want a powerful deputy? Is that all?
Sammy Finkelman (dfe091) — 12/15/2016 @ 2:27 pm==totally didn’t coordinate on calling Trump’s primary speech “dark”?
That’s just one example. Journolist is alive and well, and operating out in the open.==
Ah yes, and don’t forget the “muscular” speech Hillary gave to the Council on Foreign Relations.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/02/09/journalists-described-hillary-clintons-s
elissa (256225) — 12/15/2016 @ 3:01 pm@19. Except he is. And as far as this gig goes, Saturday’s Denny’s Christmas special:
DCSCA (797bc0) — 12/15/2016 @ 5:35 pmToast. With a side order of toast.
Define neocon in terms not provided by jeet heer or shadia drury.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 5:37 pmBolton would make an excellent Deputy SecState, and would then be perfectly positioned to srep into the top spot when Tillerson”s ready to return to the private sector.
ropelight (78afaa) — 12/15/2016 @ 5:57 pmI was just thinking about “Compassionate Conservatism” and how much I detest Karl Rove.
That bit of moralistic idiocy seems like a distant memory now. What a poser.
Even if Trump turns into a squish, at least he’s not insulting me with the claim that I am morally deficient because I try to be principled.
Has Trump done any moral posturing? What a nice break from the soon-to-be unemployed poser-supreme.
ThOR (c9324e) — 12/15/2016 @ 6:00 pm==how much I detest Karl Rove.==
Yeah, I’ll buy a ticket on that train too. There needs to be a whole new crop of go to “Republicans” for the talk show and interview circuit.
elissa (256225) — 12/15/2016 @ 6:05 pmi don’t value Karl Rove’s opinion
There needs to be a whole new crop of go to “Republicans” for the talk show and interview circuit.
we’ll get literally hundreds of generalists and specialists out of the Trump Administration that will be suitable for this
this is one of the things the nevertrumps wanted to piss away
it’s so weird how they are
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/15/2016 @ 6:08 pmI remember Ace saying he was going to start voting Democrat in general.
I remember Ace saying he would vote for Hillary over Rubio.
There is an awful lot of “LOOK AT ME I AM TEH CONSERVATIVE” breast-beating in that post, for a guy who said all those things about voting for Hillary and becoming a Democrat. Things I never said, even once.
He’s being a dick, and I would say that to his face. I won’t lay into him further than that, but I won’t pretend he didn’t say these things, and I won’t pretend his current triumphalist position is admirable.
Patterico (472d53) — 12/15/2016 @ 7:03 pmThere’s more money in the “I just realized Trump is awesome after blasting him for months” niche. Take it from someone who is hardly cashing in on the “I will continue to criticize Trump when he does wrong and praise him when he does right” niche.
There is not a lot of money in that niche but I am not in this for the money. Or the positive feedback from long-time commenters. I’m in it for…I’m not quite sure.
After over 13 years, saying what I actually think is apparently something of a habit. An unpopular habit in the Age of Shitbag Trump. But a hard habit to break. Cue that bad ’80s band.
Patterico (472d53) — 12/15/2016 @ 7:09 pmYes the ewok was all burnt fur, before the election, but sykes now at MSNBC, is trudging the strange new respect path of Kevin Phillips.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 7:11 pmTillerson’s pick is troublesome not just because of Russia, but its more in the Marshall/forrestal vein that sacrifices small powers like Israel to its larger neighbors.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 7:14 pmNow Carlos slims is all too selling to throw Israel under the bus,like its counterpart haaretz. In fact bibi derangement is cousin to the varieties seen in the states.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 7:19 pm@Patterico:There’s more money in the “I just realized Trump is awesome after blasting him for months” niche
Yeah? Who’s getting a book deal for that?
Gabriel Hanna (14083c) — 12/15/2016 @ 7:20 pmAn up ed in the times, a gig on MSNBC, an appearance on scary Larry any or all are cries for help.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 7:52 pm“4. Revoltin’ Bolton is an ideologue.
His chance for the gig has been deep-sixed.”
I wish I had a nickel for every time I was assured that Trump deep-sixed himself with whatever he just said that day. And when I was assured that he’d be making stupid picks, get rolled by the GOPe, etc.
People’s prognostications on Trump have been notoriously WRONG, epsecially when made by anti-Trumpers. And, really? People are still believing whatever the NYT says? How dumb is that?
“13. Tillerson was probably fine with Bolton until the Bushies whispered in his ear.”
Right. As if Tillerson has much say in the matter. Last time I looked, Trump thinks he is the boss and that what he says goes.
“35. Bolton would make an excellent Deputy SecState, and would then be perfectly positioned to srep into the top spot when Tillerson”s ready to return to the private sector.”
All along, I figured that Bolton would be given a shovel and a broom and told that his job is to clean out the State Dept stable. Lord knows that has been needed for a long time.
Bush screwed up bigtime by not requiring Powell to clean it out.
Y’know, I’m not troubled by the thought that Tillerson doesn’t work out. If there is one thing that we have seen, Trump doesn’t hesitate to fire anybody that screws up.
fred-2 (ce04f3) — 12/15/2016 @ 7:58 pmNow there are snart objection to Bolton, and stupid ones like those floated by mark Leon Goldberg at UN dispatch.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/15/2016 @ 8:26 pmI liked the New York Values comment because I’ve met a lot of caustic, “truth-telling” New Yorkers. They act like Howard Stern is their role model. It’s not just the content of their words that makes my skin crawl, it is also the nasal, rapid fire delivery. They make a horrible first – as well as second and third – impression. I couldn’t wait for the election, just to get this piece of work out of my face.
Trump wound up so far down in my opinion, he had nowhere to go but up. But it’s better than that, though. His cabinet appointments seem generally stellar and the rest are at least interesting. Not what I was expecting, at all. More importantly, every politician I have ever liked has, on occasion, done things that really gripe me, Reagan, included. So the man doesn’t have to be perfect to be a winner, relatively speaking.
All of this is not to say I have relinquished my doubts. He raised too many red flags for that. And I still can’t bear to listen to him talk. But I’ve calmed down.
ThOR (c9324e) — 12/15/2016 @ 10:01 pmAce is probably doing fine in the traffic department.
Of course, never blasting Trump was a much better financial move.
If you have the idea that my position is making me money, somehow, think again. That’s not why I do what I do.
Patterico (115b1f) — 12/15/2016 @ 10:08 pmOh, it’s Chicago.
Not fair to call it an 80s band.
Patterico (115b1f) — 12/15/2016 @ 10:11 pmAce has been banning people like crazy (me, among them) so I don’t know what he’s up to, recreating his blog into…? Puzzling.
Patricia (5fc097) — 12/15/2016 @ 10:36 pmhttp://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=366088
Patterico (115b1f) — 12/15/2016 @ 10:41 pmBut now he seems gung-ho Trump…but idk I don’t read everything over there.
Patricia (5fc097) — 12/15/2016 @ 11:07 pmI was a regular reader when Andrew Sullivan flipped – I still miss the old Andrew.
Not long after that, I was a Charles Johnson reader when he flipped. I like to think I was one of the first that he banned. I don’t miss Charles, bit I thank him for providing a link to Captain Beefheart’s Ice Cream For Crow. I love that video.
It happens.
ThOR (c9324e) — 12/16/2016 @ 12:09 amAnd, of course, for bringing down Dan Rather.
ThOR (c9324e) — 12/16/2016 @ 12:16 amyou are quoting the nyt and redstate????? good greif, why even read this?
sd Harms (c7dded) — 12/16/2016 @ 3:54 am@Patterico:If you have the idea that my position is making me money, somehow, think again.
I never mentioned you or said anything that could plausibly be interpreted as meaning you. I mentioned two names, neither of which were yours.
If I had characterized a comment of yours as falsely as you did mine, you’d not be responding to me for 24 hours.
There is money to be made by conservatives who publicly renounce conservative candidates and causes. You don’t think you’ve done that, and neither do it.
Gabriel Hanna (14083c) — 12/16/2016 @ 5:02 amneither do I.
And the person we were discussing in my comment was not you either.
Gabriel Hanna (14083c) — 12/16/2016 @ 5:05 am@Patterico: I keep forgetting to mention it. Your series on Murphy’s “Choice” has got me reading “Human Action”. Thanks.
I think there are some of us here who’d enjoy seeing you present the rest of the book.
Gabriel Hanna (14083c) — 12/16/2016 @ 5:13 amHillary Clinton Will Never Be President Of The USA!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/16/2016 @ 5:24 amNot sure you are reading Ace’s column correctly on leaving the GOP.
It was the “NeverTrump” movement, which he viewed as party-suicide leading to permanent minority status, which was driving him from the party. It was based on the presumption that Trump would lose, and his loss would be attributable to the failure of the GOP establishment to support him after he won the nomination fair and square over a stable of establishment candidates.
His threat to “join” the Democrats had nothing to do with an alignment of his political views with their views, only that if the “Betters” in each party were going to deal with the “lessers” in a paternalistic manner and lie to them in order to keep them in line, he might as well be in a position of not having to apologize for being a member of the GOP in social settings.
I think you realize it was 90% written in sarcasm, but the point he was making — and I think it was directed at the Bush wing of the party — was perfectly valid given the arc of the general election campaign and where it was at in Sept.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 12/16/2016 @ 6:01 amit’s funny to see the words “Bush wing of the party”
Mr. Trump oh my goodness
he’s already changed the whole world
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/16/2016 @ 6:04 amThor@54
Sullivan flipped completely over the issue of gay marriage. He turned around this entire world view on the issue of which party would support his desire to marry another man. He was fine remaining with conservatives while Bill Clinton was signing the Defense of Marriage Act, and he was all in on Bush 43 in 2000. But once Kennedy began to give cover to the march of the LGBT agenda in Lawrence v. Texas, Sullivan was all-in.
I think he actually fell in love with Obama when he gave the Key Note speech at the 2004 Dem convention. And he just grandstanded the whole “water boarding is torture” issue to establish his bona fides with his new found friends.
Ariana Huffington blazed the trail that he followed. Got him invited to better cocktail parties in Manhattan.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 12/16/2016 @ 6:12 amOT, but this is the active thread, I have a thought out of my league, but one I think others would be interested in,
Have the upward movement in the stock market over the last many years been a matter of nothing more than at most maintaining their “real value” because of QE, while most of us are losing wealth and buying power???
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/16/2016 @ 6:20 amnailed it
100% nailed it
that’s really remarkable
everyone knows how perverted craven stupid failmerica’s anderson cooper propaganda sluts are
they can’t cover the sun with one finger anymore
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/16/2016 @ 6:26 amHave the upward movement in the stock market over the last many years been a matter of nothing more than at most maintaining their “real value” because of QE, while most of us are losing wealth and buying power???
I think so, MD. The official loss of buying power of the dollar, in the last ten years, is at around 20% but the actual reality is that what cost $10.00 in 2010 costs $15.00 now. At the same time, real wages have dropped by about 15%.
nk (dbc370) — 12/16/2016 @ 6:45 amSo wrong way suprun, well there’s less than meets the eye,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/16/2016 @ 7:03 amThe expectation is a severe “correction” sooner than later.
Colonel Haiku (73c0b6) — 12/16/2016 @ 7:18 amI wasn’t saying you were saying that about me. But I wondered if there was an implication, and I was addressing that possible implication.
I am thrilled beyond words that you are reading “Human Action.” So am I. It’s long. It’s well written but long.
Patterico (115b1f) — 12/16/2016 @ 7:29 am