Patterico's Pontifications

12/14/2016

NBC: Putin Personally Behind Hacking of DNC

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:00 pm



NBC News:

U.S. intelligence officials now believe with “a high level of confidence” that Russian President Vladimir Putin became personally involved in the covert Russian campaign to interfere in the U.S. presidential election, senior U.S. intelligence officials told NBC News.

Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

Putin’s objectives were multifaceted, a high-level intelligence source told NBC News. What began as a “vendetta” against Hillary Clinton morphed into an effort to show corruption in American politics and to “split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn’t depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore,” the official said.

Ultimately, the CIA has assessed, the Russian government wanted to elect Donald Trump. The FBI and other agencies don’t fully endorse that view, but few officials would dispute that the Russian operation was intended to harm Clinton’s candidacy by leaking embarrassing emails about Democrats.

. . . .

Now the U.S has solid information tying Putin to the operation, the intelligence officials say. Their use of the term “high confidence” implies that the intelligence is nearly incontrovertible.

Meanwhile, Putin’s popularity is on the rise with Republicans . . . and bigly. Republicans’ net favorability towards Putin was -66% in July 2014. In December 2016, it is now . . . -10%.

That’s a 56-point gain amongst Republicans. Meanwhile, Putin has maintained about the same (un)favorable rating from Democrats: -54% in July 2014, compared to -62% today.

What explains this? Partisan politics. I can hardly improve on what Allahpundit at Hot Air had to say about the poll results:

Republican opinion on Putin seems to have moved not because Trump is pro-Russia or because there’s suddenly an opportunity for better relations with Moscow. It moved because Russia interfered in the election to the Democrats’ detriment, whether that was the core motive or not. That’s the point we’ve reached in partisan polarization, apparently. Want better relations with the U.S.? Then do what you can, legal or not, to make the eventual winning party’s path to electoral victory easier.

To put that another way, the surge in favorability among Republicans for a Russian fascist and kleptocrat who’s used anti-American propaganda relentlessly to consolidate power at home may be a more or less straightforward byproduct of partisan politics.

Americans’ assessment: Vladimir Putin may have imprisoned and even murdered political opponents, punished and even killed journalists, and invaded Crimea . . . but at least he helped elect Donald Trump. Two big thumbs up!

[Cross-posted at RedState.]

165 Responses to “NBC: Putin Personally Behind Hacking of DNC”

  1. Well that’s one variable, events southeast of Russia, as well as southwest might have had something more to do with it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  2. The jayvees and bataclan, malbeek, San Bernardino, etc.

    narciso (d1f714)

  3. Megyn Kelly interviewing Rep. Peter King. He is asking why “someone” in CIA talking to WAPO NYT and NBC but not Congress. This is strange stuff going on.

    https://youtu.be/JebHe3049aA

    elissa (c709c7)

  4. Always trust NBC content. They’ve no dog in this hunt.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  5. Where would president asisi and perhaps future president hafter
    get such notions.

    narciso (d1f714)

  6. Now clapper woyldnt go on a limb, then again they never tell him anything I recall one such deputy was fingar of the 2007 nie on Iran.

    narciso (d1f714)

  7. Uneffingbelievable… three of the least credible “news” sources with absolutely no axe to grind, refusal to share findings with members of Congress. Line the birdcage stuff.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  8. It’s obvious to me that Trump is a Manchurian Candidate. A long-term sleeper. Ivana, his first wife, a Soviet Russian, was his first handler. She lost control of him, or the KGB lost control of her, when the Soviet Union collapsed. Then with the restrengthening of Russia, Putin reestablished control with Melania, also a long term asset from Communist former Yugoslavia.

    It’s really very clear if you do the analysis.

    nk (dbc370)

  9. These are the same pollsters that had Clinton winning Michigan by 6%. The polls could be right, but I’m just curious about the questions asked to get these results.

    Xmas (3a75bb)

  10. No honestly coronello, we will get to kick the football this time. If this so who gets the Morrell gig at NBC next time.

    narciso (d1f714)

  11. It’s just mind-boggling that foreign spies might be spying.
    The Democrats have been standing up for Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs for 60 years. And now they’re finally upset that the Kremlin might have gotten its hands on some b*tchy emails written by DNC staffers? After all, President Barack had earlier said that there really wasn’t anything interesting about those emails! (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  12. Same people cared less than little that paid Democrat operatives fomented and perpetrated violence against people for their simple participation in political rallies.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  13. arkin the one that slimed general boykin because he was a practicing Christian, dilenian want there something about him in those emails

    narciso (d1f714)

  14. The 80s are calling, the want Obama and the rest of these humps to wear their sunglasses at night.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  15. Is this the line for people who hate NBC?

    Wouldn’t want to get in the CBS line by mistake.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  16. Donald J. Trump, President of the Federated Russian Republic of the United States of America.

    nk (dbc370)

  17. -40 in Chicago, brains are going to sleep.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  18. Let’s not forget that Trump was a “good buddy” of Roy Cohn who framed the Rosenbergs to protect the real Soviet spy ring who stole not only the atomic bomb but also the rocket technology that put the Soviets first into space.

    nk (dbc370)

  19. arkin revealed every codeword program in one book, and practically evrru node of our entire intelligence archipelago in the next one

    narciso (d1f714)

  20. I smell a whole lot of maybe.

    It’s got a distinctive odor. Smells like stinking badgers, otters, polecats, weasels and wolverines

    papertiger (c8116c)

  21. It should surprise no one that the Russians would like to sow chaos in our elections. How to do it though? Hack the DNC, leak the contents, then sit back and laugh their asses off while the Democrats, after losing, do the job for them.

    The only flaw in that theory is that the Democrats would have to be monumentally stupid to fall for it. Oh, wait…

    Arizona CJ (191c8a)

  22. How many of these reporters published every one of snowfen’s slides

    narciso (d1f714)

  23. Like captain tupolev, they fired too soon and the torpedoes locked on the konavelov.

    narciso (d1f714)

  24. Just more fake news from the usual sources

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. Can a lame duck get any lamer?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  26. It thrashes around like Spiderman’s black alien costume under the church bells.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  27. We have met the enemy, and it is not the Russians or Vladimir Putin, I am told. It is our intelligence agencies, apparently. Trump sides with the former over the latter.

    Fuck partisan politics. I have never been so happy to be free of it.

    Patterico (5f0ab0)

  28. That film was terrible, it nearly killed the franchise like Batman and robin and superman 4

    narciso (d1f714)

  29. The ones that wrote the Benghazi points or the ones that silenced Phil haney.

    narciso (d1f714)

  30. Obama’s attempted interference in Israeli elections conspicuously not mentioned.

    No mention of Teddy “Chappaquiddick” Kennedy and his request for the Soviets to topple Reagan in ’84.

    NJRob (43d957)

  31. How about this,

    The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

    more foreigners. Nameless foreigners at three steps remove, interfering in an American election.

    At least three layers of cowardice, incognitoe.

    Papertiger for comparison only needs one.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  32. And brexit and pressure on colombia, now palmyra is the first
    reverse domino, but the jayvees are on the run.

    narciso (d1f714)

  33. And it was the ghost of Andrew Breitbart directing zombie Putin.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  34. overlooking the fact that if even one of the Democrats were an honorable human being working for the good of America instead of lying scum running an obvious con game, none of it would have made a tinkers damn bit of difference.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  35. Patterico,

    Again this is where we are at. Between the DNC and its followers inability to accept some or all of the blame for the poor ground game (the recent revelations that they spent money on sure bets instead of going for the hard to get areas and that probably turned diehard DNC voters into Trump voters) to their blame casting on everything from Comey’s letter to the Wikileaks to just sexist behavior. The blatant media in kind contributions to her election campaign, there is just no way that this couldn’t have gone her way. That the revelations that a foreign entity hacked our elections means nothing to most folks. Not after the IRS events, The Wisconsin John Doe raids, the abuse of government power on the common folks who feel like the “forgotten folks” by Clinton and her crowd. It has as you noted all boiled down to a giant FOX UNIFORM to Clinton, the DNC, the Government and it is strictly a partisan “enemy of my enemy is my friend” sort of results for this poll. I would also wonder how many of these folks that identify as GOP voters have been GOP voters for longer than this election and how many are brand new.

    Let alone the fact that in the last three years the media has basically called in a 300 Megaton nuclear strike on their own positions with going on fake stories from rape hoaxes to bigotry hoaxes to piss-poor polling that you have ripped apart when it was done by the LAT. There is a reason why most folks aren’t treating this like a serious threat, that is because if the media is calling it the end of the world; then most folks now want to have infinite number of monkeys to confirm that it is a serious threat. Congratulations to any professional J-schoolers who are reading this blog and its comments. You colleagues have burned any and all capital with the average American Citizen about truth telling and there is probably no way to earn it back. All the crowing about fake news won’t help you and may actually be harming you.

    Oh and when you add in that it also appears the US Government was involved with some election hacking, http://tinyurl.com/DHS-Hacks-GA-Votes, it makes you wonder again how much influence that the Russians had on the election and how much of it was because of sloppy work by the government to “rig” it the “right” way that allowed outside entities the access they needed

    PS to this hacking the elections story. If you have read up on any serious study of US Intelligence Agency actions from the mid 60s until the Church Hearings the attempts and actual results of influence via public opinion operations and outright support for “demonstrators” to help influence elections of nations like Chile, Portugal, Greece, various African states and even Korea would be eye opening. Not all hands are clean and the not trying to morally justify the event if it happened on a broad scale. Just that we have done similar tricks to shape the spheres of influence.

    PPS to this hacking the elections story. Remember when Obama tried to make sure that the British stayed in the EU? http://tinyurl.com/Obama-and-Brexit. Oh and then there was the Department of State spending $ to influence the Israeli Elections, maybe illegally? http://tinyurl.com/Obama-Israeli-Elections, http://tinyurl.com/Obam-Israeli-elections-Illegal

    So again the DNC played with fire and got burned by other entities that took a page from their playbook. Again it appears the American population is tired of the established parties and is in revolt and with respect to the DNC (and to the established GOP K-streeters) whom they feel has bent them over a table too many times with sandpaper as protection and nothing but pretty words in the ears as the voters screamed about the hurt. So that is why most people don’t care or they laugh because the abusers are getting abused.

    Charles (24e862)

  36. I don’t see the value in that poll after observing the reaction to the death of Fidel Castro who was clearly the most beloved leader of the Democrats/reporters cabal.

    AZ Bob (f7a491)

  37. R.I.P. Bernard Fox, British character actor best known for his many tv guest appearances as Dr. Bombay on Bewitched and Colonel Crittendon on Hogan’s Heroes.

    Icy (706752)

  38. The Pakistani import who wants California to break away from the United States to form a country was just on with Tucker Carlson tonight.

    I can’t remember his name but the dude said one of the first acts of the new California Republic would be to build a wall on the Mexican border.

    Tucker nearly fell out of his chair laughing. Then broke to commercial.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  39. “Fuck partisan politics. I have never been so happy to be free of it.”
    Me too, Patrick. It’s liberating. The comments here have become incoherent in defense of an ex-KGB dictator and zero-substance president-elect.

    WarrenPeese (2f359e)

  40. I can just see this. Putin and Chloe racing to see who can decode the most info. I didn’t even know he could type.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  41. What I don’t get is why no one does a document dump on Putin and his crowd. Although I bet he doesn’t keep his info on a server in someone’s bathroom.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  42. Fukk partisan politics. I have never been so happy to be free of it.

    And now you understand why Trump won. Enough people wanted to blow up the system that had D vs R at each other’s throats while Rome burned. Trump IS that FU.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  43. OTOH, it’s sad to see so many American news institutions enthusiastically degenerate into mass hysteria, subvert the most fundamental principles of the profession, betray their constitutional mandate, and behave like spoiled brats throwing tantrums in public confident their parents will knuckle under rather than spank their naked rear ends.

    OTOH, now the hauty pack of self-appointed scolds is getting a heaping helping of the bitter broth they’ve laddled out to captive audiences for decades. It’s better than they deserve, and long overdue.

    ropelight (78afaa)

  44. Empty carbs for Americans to chew on, courtesy of the National Biscuit Company.

    “Well, boys, I reckon this is it — nuclear combat toe to toe with the Roosskies.” – Maj. T.J. ‘King’ Kong [Slim Pickens] ‘Dr. Strangelove’ 1964

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  45. Keep in mind that these poll results are what people have told the pollsters. Which is, more and more often, a flat-out lie, concealing what they really think. Hence why Trump’s victory blindsided everyone: because so many people lied to the pollsters, causing them to overestimate Clinton’s support.

    Doesn’t mean there aren’t a lot of people being blinded by partisan politics, of course. What is does mean is that we have no reliable evidence one way or the other. Polls soliciting people’s opinion should no longer be considered reliable, given recent history and how many people have become willing to lie to pollsters.

    Robin Munn (81dd9f)

  46. So I am to believe leaks by this administration and “reported” on by the MSM? Sorry. I’m not starting now, no matter how much I dislike Trump.

    Ask yourself: do the leakers and their scribes have motive and opportunity to mislead? It is the question prosecutors are supposed to ask, isn’t it?

    ThOR (c9324e)

  47. To be fair, Putin had a much better year than the Democrats.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  48. Hot Air lol

    clickbait trash

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  49. How did Democrats rate with Republicans in that poll? Need it for the baseline.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  50. “We have met the enemy, and it is not the Russians or Vladimir Putin, I am told. It is our intelligence agencies, apparently. Trump sides with the former over the latter.”

    Patterico, which intelligence agencies? I’m asking that for a reason; so far, we have ONE intel agency, Brennan’s CIA (the same guys who went along with making it look like Obama was winning against ISIS – remember that?) which has stated Putin’s intent. No others, and we have 16 (not 17 like so many are saying). As for CIA, the fish rots from the head down… and *unless* CIA has a source inside Putin’s inner circle, they can’t actually know intent, so what you have is opinion claimed as fact. Obama weaponized the IRS, and has done so to CIA in the past (those false reports regarding how well he was doing against ISIS) so I think it unwise to take that one agency’s opinion as fact.

    So, where we really sit is Putin MAY have hacked the DNC and Podesta, and if so MAY have leaked the data to Wikileaks, and MAY have done so to either sow chaos or help Trump. That’s a heck of a lot of maybes. I agree with Trump on this much; it’s probably baloney, and also is clearly part of an orchestrated political smear by the Democrats.

    I am, however in favor of an investigation – one done by someone other than Obama’s people.

    As for that poll… *if* it’s real, I’m disgusted. Putin is a menace, and those who underestimate him are fools.

    Arizona CJ (191c8a)

  51. When did kicking John Podesta’s a$$ become evidence that it has to be Putin or Russians.

    Beating up John Podesta isn’t hard. I’ve been doing it for years (via ClimateProgress).

    And when you send a Nigerian businessman email to get Podesta to volunteer his password, that’s not called hacking. That’s called phishing. Only complete morons would fall for it.

    Fortunately for the country complete morons abound in the Demo party. It’s almost a requirement.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  52. If I hadn’t already left the GOP last June, after 35 years, I would do it now.

    This won’t end well.

    Dave (711345)

  53. This election and the last 8 years have shown that Hillary, Obama, the Democrats and the media don’t care about cybersecurity or the Russians, so it’s hard to take their current protestations seriously. What they care about is that someone — the Russians, unknown hackers/leakers, whoever — has manipulated the American electorate better than they do.

    Apparently some Trump supporters aren’t that concerned either. Could it be because it helped their guy win?

    DRJ (15874d)

  54. More proof that a lot of Trump supporters are short sighted and possess poor judgement.

    NC Mountain Girl (7dbfb8)

  55. Kevin,

    There was a document dump on Putin and his inner circle two years ago. It was that Panamanian law firm record dump about the money laundering shell companies. It was very embarrassing for Putin and some US security agency was likely behind it.

    Xmas (3a75bb)

  56. Fu*k partisan politics. I have never been so happy to be free of it.

    Patterico (5f0ab0) — 12/14/2016 @ 10:33 pm

    Chances are, you will have to line up with someone. Will it be the forces who have been lying to the American people for decades, who continue to manipulate them as they lose their grip? Your choice.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  57. Can anyone point to where more about the poll that is referenced above (via tweet) has been published or can be located? I need to leave soon for an appointment but will come back later to check. What I am looking for is the polling firm, the questions that were asked, the methodology, how the respondents were selected and how many there were, and most importantly the cross tabulation tables (crosstabs). Or maybe somebody else can run with this in the meantime. See short link below for why these details are important to know and why anyone who publishes, republishes, or trusts the veracity of any poll results on literally any subject without knowing such inputs is a fool.

    http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/support/polling-fundamentals-understanding-tables/

    On a separate but related issue, I agree with everyone who says Putin is a dangerous man and that his background in the KGB should tell the world we are not dealing with a normal politician. Too many people, especially the people in charge of our government for the last 8 years (as DRJ correctly points out) have not taken him seriously enough, IMO and he has taken advantage of several situations. All that being said, the way this obvious campaign to de-legitimize the recent American election is being handled through the press with respect to slow leaking alleged “details” of Russian interference in the election– gradually moving up from “no evidence” to “high confidence” in the space of about a week is patently partisan. This is not the way a self-respecting or professional “intelligence community” conducts its business and should give any reasonable person reason to question who these “high level officials” are who are happy to talk anonymously to WAPO etc. about what our spies have found out but not have time to talk officially with the House Intelligence Committee. This all stinks to high heaven.

    elissa (256225)

  58. Putin is manipulative. In other news, water is wet. There is much work to be done to strengthen our cyber security. But don’t be confused about what these people who have weaponized government bureaucracies are up to.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  59. i think it’s this one elissa

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  60. Why all this and – more specifically – why now? If the answer isn’t obvious, you have no business breathing air.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  61. the CIA is way sleazier than gay pedophile Vladimir Putin

    it took a lot of work and dedication but they done it

    good job sleazy CIA poofterboys!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  62. Al: Invisible messages from invisible sources, or what some people think of as progress.
    Dan: Ain’t the heathens used smoke signals all through recorded history?
    Al: How’s that a recommendation?
    Dan: Well, it seems to me like, you know, letters posted one person to another is just a slower version of the same idea.
    Al: When’s the last time you got a letter from a stranger?
    Dan: Bad news about Pa.
    Al: Bad news! Or tries against our interests is our sole communications from strangers, so by all means, let’s plant poles all across the country, festoon the corksucker with wires to hurry the sorry word and blinker our judgments of motive, huh?
    Dan: You’ve given it more thought than me.
    Al: Ain’t the state of things cloudy enough? Don’t we face enough imponderables?
    Dan: Well, by God, you give the word, Al, and them poles will be kindling.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  63. #52, DRJ, no, it’s because Trump’s supporters would rather laugh at fake news than be suckered into discussions about the political equivalent of crop circles.

    ropelight (78afaa)

  64. One look at Sevastopol with google earth and you know why Putin exerted the minimal amount of force to ensure the Crimea remained in Russian control. This is the port city for the Russian fleet that doesn’t freeze over in the Winter. Moreover the Crimea has been the home of the Russian Navy since before there was such a place as America.

    I don’t pretend to know how it ended up in Ukrainian territory, or what sort of deal they signed for that to happen, but I’m willing to bet without knowing that there was a clause something along the line of if the Ukrainians ever got notions of electing a hardliner who would threaten Russian access to Sevastopol that their lease on the property would be revoked.

    Let’s not pretend that Putin overplayed or made a rash action invoking that clause.

    But still that’s neither here nor there. Podesta is an idiot who gave his password out to someone he didn’t know.

    That’s all there was to it. End of story.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  65. This election is almost as much fun as a 1969 Django movie with Italian dialogue and Greek subtitles.

    nk (dbc370)

  66. There is a Third Way! https://m.shutterstock.com/images/2966252

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  67. I don’t think you know what “remain” means, papertiger, given your acknowledgment that Crimea was part of Ukraine.

    Or you’re just shamelessly carrying Trump’s water, as usual.

    Leviticus (da990e)

  68. Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used. The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

    That would have to mean that Russian diplomats, or maybe even Putin himself, told diplomats from, say, Saudi Arabia, and maybe two or three countries, that Putin was hoping that Trump got elected, and would give him a free hand in Syria, or lift the sanctions imposed after the annexation of Crimea.

    Or it could be let’s say, he told, let’s say, President Sisi of Egypt, that Hillary is against both your government and mine, and it would be good for both of us if Trump was elected. (except that that could be said because he thought it wasn’t going to happen)

    The Saudis, or whoever, or some high ranking or some high ranking official in Country X, wouldn’t have had to tell the U.S. anything about Putin or Russia said, but they could have told Bahrain, for instance, and then someone in Bahrain passed it along – maybe not even to the United States, but to France – and now someone paid attention to that report from say, back in August.

    It could also be maybe that Putin didn’t say that that he was looking forward to or hoping that Trump got elected, or that it would be good for him, but instead, he or his diplomats, in course of a lengthy conversation, told some of them to pay attention to the web sites publishing the leaks, or to something specific that Wikileaks or dcleaks had published, or used the leak in some useful way to make a point, or praised them.

    Or maybe even told them in advance of at least one thing that dcleaks or Wikileaks was going to publish.

    That’s enough for someone to claim he was directing the leaking.

    But we don’t know what, if any, of these things happened.

    But the thing is, the fact that it happened at all, and the rather sudden decision to begin the leaking, and the fact that nobody has been fired, indicates that Putin was behind it, without any of these clues derived from what foreign diplomats may have said.

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  69. papertiger (c8116c) — 12/15/2016 @ 6:28 am

    I don’t pretend to know how it ended up in Ukrainian territory,

    In 1954, Nikita Khrushchev transferred the Crimea from Russia to the Ukraine. At that time it didn’t matter. Why he did it, I don’t know. Maybe to make some official in Ukraine happy or to punish some official in Russia.

    When the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, by having all of its separate republics secede, leaving Mikhail Gorbachev without a job, Crimea wound up as part of an independent Ukraine. Later, in 1994, the United States and some otehr countries signed an agreement with Boris Yeltsin inn which he agreed that Crimea would stay part of Ukraine (and also their fleet could remain)

    I think maybe Putin also agreed to this. Whatever, it was an international agreement. Then, when Ukraine threatened (not officially, but organically) to eventually join the European Union, and even NATO, he arranged this secession and annexation.

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  70. I think the leaks are orchestrated by Putin, Trump and their moles in the CIA … for Trump’s protection.

    Just do the analysis.

    The CIA was bound to find out, probably sooner than later, that Trump is a Manchurian Putin puppet. Now, they will hesitate to do what they need to do because they will be the first ones suspected. Well-played, Donald Fredovich!

    nk (dbc370)

  71. Russia will give up the Crimea when we give Manhattan back to the Indians.

    nk (dbc370)

  72. There are 2 &1/2 times as many people over 60 working in IT cyber security for the federal government as people under the age of 30. Time for a change.

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  73. We should feel blessed that Clinton – who may as well have set her servers up in a local Starbucks – was not elected.

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  74. they need to be fired like the sleazy federal employee lifer trash they are

    merry christmas

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  75. Mr. Trump Mr. Trump I heard a rumor you gonna be president!

    Hah yes happy I heard that too – must be something to it!

    Well I hope they do president on you soon Mr. Trump – this poor little country needs you in the worst way. Omg what a mess!

    There should be an inauguration soon happy – I haven’t gotten an outlook invitation yet on that but when I do I’ll forward it along so you stay in the loop.

    Thanks Mr. Trump! And a merry christmas to you and your family!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  76. yeah i’m going in at lunch to grab some stuff from the office and maybe pick up some sammins and booze

    then working at home tomorrow

    the office is literally empty today everyone said fts

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  77. 40% more votes than voters in Detroit precincts. But there is no voter fraud per Democrats.

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  78. So far as I can determine, unknown “intelligence officials”, presumably from the CIA, have told the media that Russia “hacked” the DNC in order to influence the election in favor of Trump. We now have story that says Putin himself directed the operation.

    Does anyone suppose that if this were known prior to the election that it would not have leaked?? Look how it has leaked in the aftermath of the election, in a clear effort to undermine the legitimacy of Trump’s win.

    And its inaccurate to say that what happened to Podesta’s emails was a “hack”. Hacking involves using technology to overcome internal security measures of a computer network. Podesta fell prey to a phishing attack, where he turned over a key to the network to a stranger — basically he opened the front door to his house and hung a sign on it which said “Come in, look around, and take what you want.” That’s not hacking.

    But the CIA has failed to provide any briefing to Congress on its evidence of Russia’s specific motivations that its so willingly leaking to the Press. And its only after other components of the intelligence community failed to come on board that it upped the stakes with NBC by making the claim that Putin was personally directing the effort.

    I know people who work closely with the CIA, both on the analytical and operational level. Just like any federal bureaucracy, it has its political divisions. But what it does more than any other agency I’ve had contact with is mislead — that’s part of its charter.

    By design and training, CIA officials are fundamentally dishonest, and their dishonesty serves their own needs. Sometimes it the only way they stay in alive.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  79. “Donald Trump’s surprise election has made the Electoral College a thing again. Sad Democrats and progressives, still looking for anyone and anything to blame besides their feckless candidate and the inept, celebrity-obsessed campaign she ran, are repeating their stages of grief from 2000, when Al Gore won the popular vote but lost the White House to George W. Bush. In both cases, the Dems could fixate on the Electoral College, that awful holdover from the country’s slave-owning past. But despite high-profile attempts to bend the rules before the Electoral College votes on December 19, there’s no way in hell that Trump is not going to be the next president. Whatever you think of either him or Clinton, that’s not a bad thing. It’s the way the rules are supposed to work, and for good reasons.”

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/12/14/hamilton-electors-electoral-college

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  80. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevastopol#Sevastopol_as_part_of_Ukrainian_SSR

    Ah look. Just as I thought. The Ukrainians threatened to raise the rent on the Ruskies, then had a parlement fight over renegging on the treaty altogether. Sevastapol had always and forever been a Russian Federated city with a special status recognized even by the United Nations.

    Dam you Levi for making me look that up.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  81. Greetings:

    I saw the “Charlie Rosie” interview show on the local Progressive (née Public) Broadcasting System channel last evening. One of the guests was one Mike Morrell who supposedly, as he put it, “ran” things at the CIA back then and there and failed to notice even a scintilla (look it up ignoramuses) of political bias which helps me understand why President Putin and the Chicoms and the Muslims are having their ways with the world. I must have bailed a bit early because I don’t recall Mr. Morrell mentioning for whom he, or any of the confreres he “ran”, campaigned, donated, or voted for. Probably will be covered in his next appearance.

    Funny thing though, with the perfection of his couture and that perfectly straight part in his hair, he reminded me of a suck-up kid back at St. Margaret Mary’s Grammar School in the Bronx. Really smart kid, but he seemed to spend an inordinate amount of time in his dentist’s office.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  82. “40% more votes than voters in Detroit precincts. But there is no voter fraud per Democrats.”

    – Colonel Haiku

    Got a link? You’re usually big on links.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  83. #53 NC Mountain Girl, did you say, “poor“?
    I think your Ma just rang the dinner bell!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  84. Republicans have never been +0% positive since 2011… Democrats have been. And Democrats have been mostly more “net positive” than Republicans except for last data point.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czpy5fiWgAAJ_CP.jpg
    (From this tweet series: https://twitter.com/williamjordann/status/809067195082883076)

    Heck, I am not even a Republican–But to take a once shot number (about Russia: Friend of Foe) to complain about partisan politics after a PBS highlighted Yougov.com survey of some sort?

    And the only confirmed attempt at “hacking” (unsuccessful, possibly a mistakenly configured computer???) the election so far has been the one by the US Government against Georgia:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-close-solving-mystery-alleged-hacking-georgia-44098667

    BfC (5517e8)

  85. Sevastapol had always and forever been a Russian Federated city with a special status recognized even by the United Nations.

    papertiger, the same Wiki notes that Sevastopol is de jure part of Ukraine. It couldn’t have been a Russian federal territory and yet within Ukraine’s borders.

    Since Moscow is having a laugh, though, let’s join in the fun and start calling Kaliningrad by its proper name, maybe with a view to posting a few little grey men there… On a temporary basis, of course, and with the generous understanding that it be restored to its previous administrators ASAP.

    JP (f1742c)

  86. Regarding 40% Detroit number–Not votes, but Precincts:

    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/12/12/records-many-votes-detroits-precincts/95363314/

    Records: Too many votes in 37% of Detroit’s precincts

    Detroit’s mismatched votes

    Here is a breakdown of the irregularities in Detroit’s 662 precincts:

    ■236 precincts in balance — equal numbers of voters counted by workers and machines

    ■248 precincts with too many votes and no explanation (77 were 1 over; 62 were 2 over, 37 were 3 over, 20 were 4 over, 52 were 5 or more over).

    ■144 precincts with too few votes and no explanation (81 were 1 under, 29 were 2 under; 19 were 3 under; 7 were 4 under; 8 were 5 or more under)

    ■34 precincts out of balance but with an explanation

    Source: Wayne County Clerk’s Office

    The above precints are not “re-countable” because of various “errors” (broken seals, physical counts vs recorded counts do not match without reason, etc.).

    Only one precinct (that I have read about) that listed 306 votes and ~60 physical ballots.

    Actually, not near as bad as I have always heard stories about Detroit/heavy Democratic districts… Maybe they were better at fraud (or not)…

    BfC (5517e8)

  87. More evidence-free assertions from anonymous sources who are not authorized to leak it.

    It’s such a big deal about whether Putin was involved and what is motives may have been, but for some MYSTERIOUS REASON that is not at all a concern for who in government is leaking this to the media.

    Buncha patriots acting from purely patriotic motives of patriotism. I’m sure.

    Bored with the fake news covering for Clinton.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  88. CIA patriots lol

    that was funny

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. Their use of the term “high confidence” implies that the intelligence is nearly incontrovertible.

    Did the leakers say “slam dunk”?

    Yes, media, I will believe whatever you tell me about what was said to you by government officials you don’t identify, who didn’t show you their evidence because they’re not allowed to.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  90. Anonymous sources are telling me that Putin personally suborned the government officials who leaked to NBC, because he wants to destroy confidence in the 2016 election. They used the words “high confidence” meaning that they have intelligence gold. But they can’t show it to me. That would be wrong, to spill secretes like that.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  91. So now you are trusting NBC, anonymous sources, Josh Earnest and a public opinion poll?

    You know, many people voted for Trump with a heavy heart. Sometimes I think you hate his voters more than you hate him.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  92. Ed Klein said comey told him, ‘it want the russians’

    narciso (d1f714)

  93. Unless these anonymous officials were holding the evidence in their hands I’m not sure we can give their unsupported statements more than like 99% credence.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  94. Much as was evidenced back in the mid-80s when the city of San Francisco… aka Beijing-by-the-Bay… aka People’s Republic of the Bay Area gave the Soviets the highest elevated point in the city to open their “News Service” facility… a spot that looked right down into the FBI office, national security matters to Democrats until it doesn’t… clown nose on, clown nose off.

    Nations have been sneaking around trying to get their hands on the secrets of their enemies since the time of the Caesars. Ain’t nothing new here. So don’t buy into it.

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  95. #53 NC Mountain Girl, did you say, “poor“?
    I think your Ma just rang the dinner bell!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/15/2016 @ 8:26 am

    HowDEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  96. Patterico writes blog posts because he wants to reach out to people, not because he hates people. Who are the haters here, Patterico or the people who drop in every day to berate him?

    I used to think resentful, bitter people were rare figments of Obama’s imagination, but now I don’t.

    DRJ (15874d)

  97. This analysis is true regarding the effect of partisan politics. But I want to interject that I don’t think that it’s an accident that the Republicans are the ones displaying the most virulent form of this partisan politics. They’ve spent the past several decades trying to completely de-legitimize the Democratic Party, the press and government as a whole, and their constituents now don’t believe in any of our democratic (small d) institutions.

    I honestly believe that the Republican Party as it is currently constituted is dangerously radical in a manner that can become essentially traitorous.

    Just to pre-empt a couple items of likely push-back:

    I’m not saying that some Democrats and liberals/leftists wouldn’t have similar partisan blinders, but I am saying that the vast majority of the Democratic establishment wouldn’t be looking the other way, as most of the Republicans are.

    Second, I’m also not saying that the democratic institutions like the press or government are perfect. There are many, many problems with them, but the answer is to improve them, not to burn them down, and the Republicans are trying to burn them down.

    Jonny Scrum-half (e19a3e)

  98. Unverified sources, a byline by someone who should have faced a firing squad years ago.

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. A poll analysis that doesn’t consider alternate variables.

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. NC Mountain Girl,

    To say that Trumpkins are short-sighted and possess poor judgment is like saying that Dracula has bad table manners.

    nk (dbc370)

  101. Greetings, Colonel Haiku: ( @95 (97db13) — 12/15/2016 @ 9:53 am )

    And at the risk of beating a dead horse, in the mid-80s, the San Francisco Bay area pinkos were doing their best to drive out Navy out of one of the world’s best harbors.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  102. Not that it matters, but this is same “intelligence” services that falsely claimed North Korea hacked Sony.

    SPQR (78cecf)

  103. Putin is scum. He’s a murder. A criminal. A dictator.

    He also didn’t rig our election.

    Wiki leaks

    NJRob (ad1937)

  104. And I would be more impressed, barely, if the CIA hadn’t just refused to brief Congress on its claims.

    SPQR (78cecf)

  105. Wikileaks released documents that showed what Democrats and the media think of the public and how they collude to manipulate the masses.

    Tough.

    NJRob (ad1937)

  106. But the thing is, the fact that it happened at all, and the rather sudden decision to begin the leaking, and the fact that nobody has been fired, indicates that Putin was behind it, without any of these clues derived from what foreign diplomats may have said.

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

    Sammy,

    The alleged leaker in the DNC was found dead of a mugging where nothing was stolen.

    NJRob (ad1937)

  107. “This analysis is true regarding the effect of partisan politics. But I want to interject that I don’t think that it’s an accident that the Republicans are the ones displaying the most virulent form of this partisan politics. They’ve spent the past several decades trying to completely de-legitimize the Democratic Party, the press and government as a whole, and their constituents now don’t believe in any of our democratic (small d) institutions.

    I honestly believe that the Republican Party as it is currently constituted is dangerously radical in a manner that can become essentially traitorous.”

    Scrote-tastic!!!

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  108. Dracula had exquisite table manners, at least according to Bram Stoker.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  109. Not really a Trump fan. Why is any claim to be taken at face value coming from Pro-Hillary/Democrat Party propaganda networks that Trump and GOP supporters are now huge fans of an ex-KGB Commie strong man? Especially when the “news” is so obviously designed to support the “Putin hacked Trump to Victory” bullshit coming from the kook-left and the media.

    What credibility do any of these “news” operations have again? I must have missed that rehabilitation somehow.

    SGT Ted (d1ab06)

  110. “This analysis is true regarding the effect of partisan politics. But I want to interject that I don’t think that it’s an accident that the Republicans are the ones displaying the most virulent form of this partisan politics. They’ve spent the past several decades trying to completely de-legitimize the Democratic Party, the press and government as a whole, and their constituents now don’t believe in any of our democratic (small d) institutions.

    I honestly believe that the Republican Party as it is currently constituted is dangerously radical in a manner that can become essentially traitorous.”

    You are a crackpot. NEXT!

    SGT Ted (d1ab06)

  111. We’ve seen how the conventional works… how it has enriched the power players and divide the nation using tribalism, special interests, media manipulation, mendacity, etc. This last election was a vote for the unconventional, a vote to give that a try. A vote for Change. Not all of which is going to be good. But it is what it is and it will not be wished or tsk-tskd away.

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  112. 110… lol… the Left weaponizes the federal – and in blue state instances, state – bureaucracies and then cries foul and throws tantrums when they realize who and what they’ve energized.

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  113. If the CIA, or the intelligence agency of any other foreign country, had agents in place who actually knew what Putin was actively pursuing, who knew what was on Putin’s mind as is suggested by this NBC report, then those assets would be so valuable that they would never be spoken of outside a tiny group of people. Information gained from them would be so irreplaceable that using it for any purpose would involve the creation of a plausible source of information from an unrelated source. Is it plausible that another country would even tell the CIA that it had such a highly placed source? Would it then compound its folly by disclosing to the CIA what that source had learned, which would be a clue to his identity? Or course not. This is not the sort of “cover story” that would be created to hide such a source.

    We have a man-child in the White House, an idiot posing as a Secretary of State, and now we have simpletons in the CIA making up these improbable stories. If there was any truth to the story, then one of Putin’s confidants is about to disappear, for ever. But to get that close to Putin would require someone who knew how to keep a secret and whom to trust. Getting such a person to betray Putin would be impossible given the cast of characters who have held high office in the western world for the past decade. The list of Republicans who have fallen for this fantastic tale, silly men like Lindsay Graham, is yet another confirmation that GOPe is rotten to the core.

    In fact, this story is doing more to undermine the United States right now than the release of the emails by Assange. Those emails simply confirmed that the Clinton campaign, the DNC, and major figures in the media were corrupt and stooped to levels not imagined by Nixon. Which most of us suspected for decades. Now we’re supposed to think that Trump is a Manchurian Candidate. Fantastic!

    BobStewartatHome (822f64)

  114. That info is as reliable and trustworthy as a Greek accountant.

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  115. Johnny Scrum-half, we don’t need to try to de-legitimize the Democrats or the MSM. They’ve done just fine doing so without our help.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  116. 102… heh, forgot about that, 11B40

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  117. Still no link, huh?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  118. @Leviticus:Still no link, huh?

    There’s a lot of unsupported assertions by anonymous government officials not authorized to leak to the media, and aren’t willing to share what they know with Congress.

    So no, no link as such.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  119. 113. BobStewartatHome (822f64) — 12/15/2016 @ 10:37 am

    If the CIA, or the intelligence agency of any other foreign country, had agents in place who actually knew Putin was actively pursuing, who knew what was on Putin’s mind as is suggested by this NBC report, then those assets would be so valuable that they would never be spoken of outside a tiny group of people. Information gained from them would be so irreplaceable that using it for any purpose would involve the creation of a plausible source of information from an unrelated source…Is it plausible that another country would even tell the CIA that it had such a highly placed source? Would it then compound its folly by disclosing to the CIA what that source had learned, which would be a clue to his identity? Or course not. This is not the sort of “cover story” that would be created to hide such a source.

    So, either

    1) This is itself a cover story giiving a plausible source of information from an unrelated source, maybe for a different kind of intelligence, or

    2) It’s made up and there is no such intelligence, or

    3) It’s not exactly a cover story, and thee is something there, except it’s something carefully worded to sound like one thing when it really is another. And it’s only rated so highly because there’s other kinds of information. Like eavesdropping, or penetration of Russian computers and discovery of some kind of e-mail mentioning Putin. That’s close to choice 1.

    By sound like one thing but really mean another thing I mean it could be like what I said at #68: Putin or some Russian diplomats told some foreign country or countries something that’s very consistent with the idea that Putin was publicizing information with the idea of helping Trump, *

    It could be that Putin showed advance knowledge of something that was going to appear in Wikileaks or dcleaks. It could be he was calling attention to something. Or it could be merely expressing a wish that Trump get elected. (which might not reflect his real opinion, anyway)

    Since we have no idea what this is based on, we can’t say very much, except that the circumstantial evidence, taken as a whole, points to the conclusion that Putin was tying to help Trump.

    * at least when you start with the prior conclusion that Russia did a lot of leaking of hacks, so the remaining question is only: What did Putin know and when did he know it, and if he did authorize leaks, why did he authorize it, to sow division, to weaken future President Hillary Clinton, or to actually try to elect Trump?

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  120. DrJ, I don’t drop by here to berate him!

    Patricia (5fc097)

  121. Seventy years after the beginning of the Cold War, and the Left is finally angry at Russia.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  122. Republicans’ net favorability towards Putin was -66% in July 2014. In December 2016, it is now . . . -10%.

    The problem this plays up is the usual misunderstanding of what such a poll question means.

    I’m not sure what exactly they asked, but people probably answered it with respect to recent events that they knew about.

    In 2014, it was answered with regard to the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 and his opposition to the new Ukrainian government, support of rebels, and the annexation of the Crimea, as and also his giving asylum to Edward Snowden.

    Amd in 2016 it was answered mainly with regard to his supposed opposition to Islamic terrorism (to Syrian refugees also, because some people knew Putin was pushing that) and his nearly open support of Donald Trump – Republicans liked that and Democrats did not.

    Not too many peole were thinking of Syria, and if they did, Republicans may have thought (partially becaise of Trump) that he’s doing a good thing and Democrats probably did not).

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  123. Sammy, the circumstantial evidence suggests this whole thing was made up by some rather simple-minded fools who had an axe to grind. Their knowledge of the world is about as deep and well founded as Hollywood’s latest action adventure. Tom Clancy and Ian Fleming (in his early days) would never have stooped to such a story line. It says a lot about our media and the leadership of the CIA that they buy into this stuff. Blowing up pickup trucks with dynamite to make the viewer think there’s a design flaw in the fuel system is old-school media. They, at least, knew you had to invest some time and effort in hiding the deception.

    BobStewartatHome (822f64)

  124. So much more scary than “more freedom after election” Obama.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-nuclear-summit-obama-medvedev-idUSBRE82P0JI20120326

    President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have “more flexibility” to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.

    Obama, during talks in Seoul, urged Moscow to give him “space” until after the November ballot, and Medvedev said he would relay the message to incoming Russian president Vladimir Putin.

    The unusually frank exchange came as Obama and Medvedev huddled together on the eve of a global nuclear security summit in the South Korean capital, unaware their words were being picked up by microphones as reporters were led into the room.

    Or “pay for play” of Clinton Inc:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0

    Beyond mines in Kazakhstan that are among the most lucrative in the world, the sale gave the Russians control of one-fifth of all uranium production capacity in the United States. Since uranium is considered a strategic asset, with implications for national security, the deal had to be approved by a committee composed of representatives from a number of United States government agencies. Among the agencies that eventually signed off was the State Department, then headed by Mr. Clinton’s wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    As the Russians gradually assumed control of Uranium One in three separate transactions from 2009 to 2013, Canadian records show, a flow of cash made its way to the Clinton Foundation. Uranium One’s chairman used his family foundation to make four donations totaling $2.35 million. Those contributions were not publicly disclosed by the Clintons, despite an agreement Mrs. Clinton had struck with the Obama White House to publicly identify all donors. Other people with ties to the company made donations as well.

    And shortly after the Russians announced their intention to acquire a majority stake in Uranium One, Mr. Clinton received $500,000 for a Moscow speech from a Russian investment bank with links to the Kremlin that was promoting Uranium One stock.
    ….
    Whether the donations played any role in the approval of the uranium deal is unknown. But the episode underscores the special ethical challenges presented by the Clinton Foundation, headed by a former president who relied heavily on foreign cash to accumulate $250 million in assets even as his wife helped steer American foreign policy as secretary of state, presiding over decisions with the potential to benefit the foundation’s donors.

    If the Russians helped to get information about corrupt Obama and Clinton out before the campaign (or just kept quiet and did not defend them)–I don’t know–But this all happened under Obama’s and Clinton’s (first four years) watch…

    Pssst… Trump is still not president yet.

    BfC (5517e8)

  125. Putin s still at minus 10 among Republicans. At least a lot of people who identified themselves as Republicans still remembered bad things Putin had done, or they didn’t think it was a good thing he hacked the Democrats, and supported Trump – his helping didn’t make him good.

    Besides which, he hadn’t released the deleted Hillary Clinton e-mails, which many people probably thought he had because the FBI has been trying to hint that maybe he did. But he only got into state.gov, the Democratic National Committee, and some Gmail accounts, like those of John Podesta and Colin Powell, but not clintonemail.com.

    Instead of repeating that Hillary’s server was not secure, because it didn’t have all the latest in security software, people should be asking themselves:

    Why was it never penetrated?

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  126. As the Russians gradually assumed control of Uranium One in three separate transactions from 2009 to 2013, Canadian records show,

    That’s why I say attributing Putin’s hostility to Hillary Clinton to something that happened in 2011, or in fact to anything that happened while she was still Secretary of State, is wrong.

    It dates from 2014, when Victoria Nuland who was instrumental in the Euromaidan Revolution – Революція гідності – and Vladimir Putin assumed that Victoria Nuland acted on her own and without presidential authorization (which may be correct) following secret instructions from her former boss, Hillary Clinton, and Hillary Clinton didn’t do anything to disabuse him of that notion because she didn’t want him to understand her better.

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  127. The NBC story is all smoke.

    You have to parse the language used to write the story — they descriptions are intentional, because the authors want the ability to back away if it blows up. So consider:

    U.S. intelligence officials now believe with “a high level of confidence” that Russian President Vladimir Putin became personally involved…”

    We know already that there was a division in October between the CIA and other intelligence agencies. This language doesn’t address whether that division still exists, or if its once again the CIA striking out into territory that others are not willing to follow.

    Two senior officials with direct access to the information say new intelligence shows that Putin personally directed how hacked material from Democrats was leaked and otherwise used.

    The descriptions vary slightly — the first sentence says “intelligence officials”, and the second says “senior officials with direct access” — are those senior “intelligence officials” or not? And isn’t “direct access to the information” an odd characterization? It is when you consider this:

    The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

    So “diplomatic” sources, and spies of foreign intelligence services have REPORTED this info.

    Does anyone ever stop to consider that these foreign actors may have their own agendas?

    The US media, long hostile to GOP candidates in general, but overtly hostile to Trump in particular, are reporting that US intelligence, getting information from foreign diplomats and foreign intelligence, about what spies for that foreign intelligence say was happening, with Putin’s involvement, blah, blah, blah.

    Thanks, but I think I’ll wait for more before forming an opinion.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  128. 124. BobStewartatHome (822f64) — 12/15/2016 @ 11:56 am

    Sammy, the circumstantial evidence suggests this whole thing was made up by some rather simple-minded fools who had an axe to grind. Their knowledge of the world is about as deep and well founded as Hollywood’s latest action adventure. Tom Clancy and Ian Fleming (in his early days) would never have stooped to such a story line.

    They would, I mean the British XX people did. The most common thing is to attribute to a spy what came from interception of communications.

    In this case, they probably didn’t invent a spy. I think they are taking some true fact – Putin or some Russian officials told some diplomats or officisals from other countries something – and using to interpret knowledge and motive. You just have to read that NBC story carefully;

    The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.

    This means a U.S. ally spied on a not-so-close ally which had been told something by Russia that can be claimed to be revelatory as to Putin’s intentions. That’s what this will turn out to be.

    They didn’t say the spies working for U.s. alles were spying on Russia, now did they?

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  129. Thank you to Happyfeet for linking the you gov poll data I wanted to see. I did not find the method of selecting respondents there, the declines, nor did I see how /if people could be verified as to their registration, income, how they voted, etc. I found many of the cross tabs for individual questions (the ones that I had time to look at) to be quite interesting and useful, though. As usual there is a general imbalance in respondents who say they lean left or right. Of course, quite a few of the questions are absolutely terrible as formatted.

    For instance: Q. 26 “Do you consider the countries listed below (Russia) to be a friend or an enemy of the United States?” That’s the choice? Friend or enemy??? No nuance, no middle ground?? I would refuse to answer that question. How many of you can or would answer that question?

    Q.28.”Do you have a favorable or unfavorable opinion of Vladimir Putin?” Of “Trump voters” 51% said they had an somewhat or very unfavorable opinion of Putin. Then…

    Here’s Q 29: Would you say Vladimir Putin is a strong or a weak leader? A huge percentage (92%) of people who said they voted for Trump say Putin is a strong leader. Not a good leader or a trustworthy leader or an admired leader–but a strong leader. Very telling.

    I realize that not everyone is interested in delving into the innards of polls but it really is worth doing that at least once in a while as a reminder of how cherry picked and basically meaningless the “results” are that get published to burnish or refute some position in the media. Differences in responses in age groups are often particularly interesting

    The cross tabs for the entire survey can be accessed below. For anybody who digs this stuff you might find the #23 “was the election rigged” and the #32 “confidence in CIA” and the #34 “From what you have heard, do you believe the Russian government was responsible for hacking into the DNC computers and leaking the emails?” crosstabs to be worthwhile to peruse and consider.

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ro9rimrce9/econTabReport.pdf

    elissa (256225)

  130. 128. U.S. intelligence officials and Two senior officials with direct access to the information are two different descriptions of the same people.

    This is a familiar type of news writing. They do that all the time. The second decription just expands on the first one. It’s the well known inverted pyramid style of newspaper writing.

    The CIA is mentioned later, in the fourth paragraph, so the unnamed agency is probably the CIA, except that they didn’t directly link their sources to the CIA as part of their agreement with them.

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  131. shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 12/15/2016 @ 12:16 pm

    We know already that there was a division in October between the CIA and other intelligence agencies. This language doesn’t address whether that division still exists, or if its once again the CIA striking out into territory that others are not willing to follow.

    The division still exists, on whether the Russian government eventually wanted to elect Donald Trump – all agree the spying didn’t start out with that motive.

    Paragraph 3 of the article says:

    Ultimately,

    the CIA has assessed, the Russian government wanted to elect Donald Trump. The FBI and other agencies don’t fully endorse that view, but few officials would dispute that the Russian operation was intended to harm Clinton’s candidacy by leaking embarrassing emails about Democrats.

    This is either the CIA officials describing or admitting what other agencies say, or what NBC’s own contacts at the FBI say, or what members of Congress say the FBI says.

    There seems to be more or less agreement on the idea taht Putin was trying to damage Hillary but maybe only the CIA says they were tryng to damage her to elect Trump. Others say they were trying to damage her to hurt U.S. foreign relations.

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  132. “The story is about the idiocy of falling for phishing! How is that ‘hard to see coming’? And what’s the point of tracing it? Just never fall for it and the problem is solved, wherever the hell it came from. The Russians don’t deserve special credit for devious genius. The Clinton campaign deserves to be lambasted for its shocking stupidity.”

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-unbelievable-typo-story-about-how.html

    Colonel Haiku (97db13)

  133. “The intelligence came from diplomatic sources and spies working for U.S. allies, the officials said.”

    Some of the intelligence. The part that is “new” that’s what the word “the” on the phrase “the intelligence” refers to.

    You should also understand the “new” information they are citing – which is anyway only new to the CIA or to its analysts – is not really new. Because new means just new to them, or newly incorporated in the analysis.

    It says here that the original purpose was to “split off key American allies by creating the image that [other countries] couldn’t depend on the U.S. to be a credible global leader anymore.” That would come from the diplomatic sources. And the spies were not spying on Russia, but on the countries that were told something by Putin, and probably are spies from within those country or countries. They were probably employees of that government. The spies verify that what the diplomatic sources reported was correct.

    Sammy Finkelman (dfe091)

  134. Oh my! Even John Kerry is expressing doubts re. the reporting!

    On Thursday, Secretary of State John Kerry appeared before reporters to deliver a statement on the crisis in Syria. After giving his statement, a reporter asked Kerry if he had any comment on reports that Vladimir Putin ordered the Russian hacks that might have influenced the presidential election.

    “Well, let me – look, I am not going to start making comments at this point. I haven’t commented on this publicly because of the job I do,” Kerry told the reporter.

    “I’m not going to comment on anonymous reports from intelligence officials that are not identified that have quotes around the concept of intelligence officials,” Kerry went on to say, putting “intelligence officials” in air quotes.

    elissa (256225)

  135. If John Forbes Kerry or John Brennan or even Barack thought this was a “slam dunk,” then they’d say so publicly.
    I suspect they know this is just a partisan game intended to persuade electors to turncoat against Trump, and so they’re not willing to stake their name behind it.
    Especially since after Trump becomes President, he’s going to be in position to demand to see evidence. (Which doesn’t exist!)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  136. He’s also going to be in position to suppress (via security classification) any evidence that shows the story is true.

    To prove I am not entirely snarky about Trump, I will say his cabinet picks have impressed me. Either he is relying heavily on Pence or he intends to run an anti-progressive administration. The quality of the picks is relatively high, most are either military or from outside the Beltway, and picking people who would prefer to abolish the agencies they will head is certainly a novel route.

    Kishnevi (70c5bd)

  137. I wonder how many people polled even knew who Putin was at the time.

    Darren M. (a4eb00)

  138. Sammy — I understand all the comments you make, but I’m not convinced its exactly as you suggest.

    I’m not sure “intelligence officials” and “senior officials with direct access to the information” are the same thing. The second description could mean Dems in Congress who have been briefed by “intelligence officials” and were shown the text of whatever was passed along from the allied intelligence agencies.

    But even if they were the same, that doesn’t get beyond the idea that the information which is supposedly almost “irrefutable” is at least twice removed from a first hand source, and is therefore subject to mischaracterization by the original foreign agency and/or the allied agency passing it along to the US. Then you have the CIA filter, which they’ve already exposed.

    shipwreckedcrew (56b591)

  139. One thing’s for sure, NBC’s behind this fake news.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  140. Sammy, let’s not forget that Hillary’s housekeeper had access to documents, so who knows who among the Barack Administration has “direct access to information.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  141. I don’t get their endgame. I get the politics however stupid and desperate it is, but I don’t get the professional objective(s) of those involved. The more the gosssipy senior officials push this the more they paint Obama into a corner. Obama seems to recognize this by ordering a full review that won’t be completed until a day or two before he steps down dumping this mess on 45’s desk for action.

    Bluster aside, none of these guys are going to do anything to Russia or Putin and his baby bears so what are they really up to? Are we being set up for a bipartisan takeover of the internet in order to “protect” us from future threats to our republic? Nothing else makes sense.

    crazy (d3b449)

  142. Well that’s part of it, remember they were contemplating retaliatory strikes against volodya, and that could get messy.

    narciso (d1f714)

  143. That’s my point. Game it out. Putin and others certainly have. The pushers of this are either destroying their own credibility or lighting the match on a fire they can’t control so they have to be after something else. A push for a national firewall seems the most likely explanation.

    crazy (d3b449)

  144. I am also old enough to remember when anyomous FBI AGENTS said that any day now a POTUS candidate would be doing the perp walk. Patterico, that is also why this story had its leg walked at the knees and two rounds put in its kneecaps for sure.

    Charles (a7b9c9)

  145. 141 Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 12/15/2016 @ 3:21 pm

    .Sammy, let’s not forget that Hillary’s housekeeper had access to documents,

    Classified faxes. I mean really classified and marked classified. A secure room for receiving such faxes was set up in her home in Washington. The Phillipina maid often printed them out and took them to her. She did not have a security clearance. But no doubt Hillary trusted her with even more important secrets than U.S. government classified information.

    so who knows who among the Barack Administration has “direct access to information.”

    Well this is Two senior [CIA] officials

    What they have goes to the question of whetehe or not Putin was personally involved and whetehr he directed the leaking. There is a wealth of information that the hack came from Russia. And this does not go to Putin’s motives, which anyway they say changed as time went along.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  146. Obama will hold a press conference tomorrow shortly after 2 pm.

    Where this is headed?

    Maybe getting people used to the idea and accepting of faithless electors in the year 2020.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  147. shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 12/15/2016 @ 3:13 pm

    But even if they were the same, that doesn’t get beyond the idea that the information which is supposedly almost “irrefutable” is at least twice removed from a first hand source, and is therefore subject to mischaracterization by the original foreign agency and/or the allied agency passing it along to the US. Then you have the CIA filter, which they’ve already exposed.

    It’s almost certainly only a logical deduction. They may be several bits of corroboration that Putin, or Russian diplomats, were saying something.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  148. Tucker takes on fake news purveyor eichenwald,

    narciso (d1f714)

  149. @149- Shades of his ‘Crossfire‘ days. That was definitely eyebrow-raising television.

    A classic example of more heat than light.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  150. Brlmonts latest ignores the fact that putin did not create the new global landscape, but he is best able to exploit it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  151. “Americans’ assessment: Vladimir Putin may have imprisoned and even murdered political opponents, punished and even killed journalists, and invaded Crimea . . . but at least he helped elect Donald Trump.”

    1) It’s not that. Most Americans aren’t familiar with Putin’s tyrannical record of political murder, because most Americans pay almost no attention to events overseas that don’t directly involve the United States.

    2) “May have”? No one with any common sense who follows events in Russia has any doubt that people in Russia get killed for opposing Putin.

    David Pittelli (0a4463)

  152. Nemtsov and politskayaka were done through Chechen cutouts, litvinenko was perhaps the most direct link.

    narciso (d1f714)

  153. 149… I watched that, narciso. That was epic and one of strangest bits of TV I’ve watched in a long time. The fellow seemed like he needs some hospitalization, he was not rational.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  154. Its something to behold, they should have had the nets on standby.

    narciso (d1f714)

  155. O.M.G. LOL, can’t make this up!

    “JOURNALISM: Kurt Eichenwald frantically deletes post-Tucker Carlson interview meltdown tweets.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/251994/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  156. Tucker has a very nice smile that serves him well in these situations I think.

    elissa (b4eb31)

  157. Tucker Carlson 2024!
    Which sacrifical Democrat dares to step onto a debate stage with him!?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  158. sacrificial, that is

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  159. Kremlin calls NBC Report Putin Directed Hack Laughable Nonsense

    Maria Zakharova, a spokeswoman for the Russian Foreign Ministry, accused “Western media” of being a “shill” and a “mouthpiece of various power groups.”

    “It’s not the general public who’s being manipulated,” Zakharova said. “The general public nowadays can distinguish the truth. It’s the mass media that is manipulating themselves.”

    papertiger (c8116c)

  160. “Barack Obama has spent the last eight years resisting the idea that Russia is an adversary of the United States. First we had the “reset”; next the cancellation of the Eastern European missile shield; then we had Obama assuring President Medvedev that he would be able to give away the store, but the Russians would need to wait for his second term; and then the presidential debate where Obama mocked Mitt Romney’s statement that Russia is our number one geopolitical rival by saying that the 1980s called, and they want their foreign policy back. In between, we had a foreign policy that was supine in the face of Russian aggression in Crimea and Ukraine.

    Now, in a typically head-snapping 180-degree turnabout, Obama and his fellow Democrats portray Republicans as soft on Communism Russia. It’s a throwback to the 1970s, but with the parties’ roles reversed. . . .

    This is what I don’t understand: in October 2014, the Russian government hacked into both the White House’s and the State Department’s computer systems. For an unknown period of time, weeks if not months, the Russians were reading White House and State Department emails–a far more significant security breach than the accounts of Debbie Wasserman Schultz and John Podesta. The Obama administration never did discover that its communications had been compromised, but an ally (I suspect it was Israel) alerted the administration to the Russian intrusion. The White House’s computer system was down for weeks while experts tried to deal with the Russian hack and improve security.

    What was President Obama’s reaction to this hack, which could reasonably be seen as an act of war? There was none, apparently. The administration downplayed the significance of the intrusion. The Russian government had been reading White House and State Department emails? No big deal! The liberal press followed suit. The newspapers that are now hysterical about the alleged Russian hacking of Wasserman Schultz’s email account dutifully kept quiet about what happened in the White House and the State Department. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that Democratic Party newspapers like the Washington Post and the New York Times remained silent because the midterm election was just a few weeks away, and the story reflected badly on the Obama administration.”

    — John Hinderaker

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/12/obama-to-putin-cut-it-out.php

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  161. Like the two minute hate, which Orwell observed in stalin ‘s time, its not supposed to make sense, coronello,

    narciso (d1f714)

  162. True that, narciso.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)


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