Patterico's Pontifications

12/3/2016

San Bernardino Terror Attack One Year Later: Blame The Christmas Party

Filed under: General — Dana @ 11:46 pm



[guest post by Dana]

It was reported this week that last year’s terror attack in San Bernardino may have been the result of… Christmas trees and other symbols of holiday cheer:

Authorities believe the terrorist attack on Dec. 2, 2015, in San Bernardino may have been triggered by a mandatory employee training session and lunch replete with holiday decorations, including a Christmas tree, that shooter Syed Farook was forced to attend.

Emails discovered by the FBI and police reveal Farook’s wife, Pakistani native Tashfeen Malik, objected to the Christmas setting and was upset her husband had to go.

“She had essentially made the statement in an online account that she didn’t think that a Muslim should have to participate in a non-Muslim holiday or event,” said San Bernardino Police Chief Jarrod Burguan in an exclusive interview with ABC News that aired on ABC News’ “Nightline.”

“That really is one of the very, very few pieces of potential evidence that we have that we can truly point to and say, ‘That probably is a motive in this case,’” he said.

As a reminder, Syed Farook left the Inland Regional Center that fateful day as the department was transitioning from a training session to a holiday party for employees. Farook was gone for approximately 30 minutes, only to return with his wife and open fire. If, as the report claims, it was the holiday party that was so upsetting to Farook, why even return to the venue? Why not just stay home? After all, he had already participated in the training portion that morning.

During an appearance on Capitol Hill just a week after the attack, FBI director James Comey had testified that Farook and his wife “were radicalized for quite a long time before their attack” and that they were “inspired by foreign terrorist organizations.” Further, since 2013, the couple had been talking to each other about jihad and martyrdom. And according to investigators at the time, “[T]he couple had been adherents of a radical strain of Islam long before the massacre.” But with this latest discovery of a motive, maybe we should just discard Comey’s silly talk.

Let this be a lesson to us all: Never underestimate the power of jingle bells and Christmas trees to inspire the most evil of acts.

–Dana

63 Responses to “San Bernardino Terror Attack One Year Later: Blame The Christmas Party”

  1. Dear God.

    Dana (d17a61)

  2. They were arming an preparing for this for months. The only part about the Christmas party that had anything to do with the attack was that they were sure there would be lots of non-Muslims in a shooting gallery for them to up the body count.

    Brian Epps (d5cd81)

  3. We may never know the motivation.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  4. So, let’s see. Can authorities, even “authorities” be this stupid? Yes. OTOH, is it likely they’re this stupid in this case? Unlikely. So the odds are they’re lying like rugs to protect the reputation of Islam and give Christianity another black eye.
    But “authorities” are really stupid if they think, 1. anybody believes them, 2, this protects the reputation of Islam, 3, this gives Christianity a black eye, and, 4, they’re not idiots.

    Richard Aubrey (472a6f)

  5. The lesson here is there’s no limit to the belly crawling self-abasement leftists will inflict on themselves in an effort to evade responsibility for the consequences of their insanely destructive kneejerk anti-Americanism.

    ropelight (93e7ce)

  6. ugh this makes me think sleazy piggy pigs like Jarrod Burguan aren’t just ignorant and stupid they’re also vile

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  7. This analysis by the “authorities” will only ensure that the next muslim couple to shoot up a group of people will leave an email on their computer wherein the female will complain about the disrespectful clothing worn by the lady victims. Not a single hijab! A year later, the target of terrorists will be lone females driving cars. Each outrage will point to a simple action that the authorities can take to “reduce the threat of terrorism” … no Christmas parties, wear “appropriate” clothing, females to be accompanied by male relatives outside the house, etc. But paradoxically, these will actually encourage further escalation of the violence.

    What passes for government in the U. S. is focused on controlling what they can control … easily. With the unstated constraint that if a large enough group refuses violently to be controlled, they get a pass. A large group of Native Americans protesting a pipeline on Federal property in North Dakota are coddled and encouraged to think that their demands will be considered. Ditto Black Panthers with baseball bats patrolling the entrance to voting sites in Philadelphia. Then there are those long stretches of desert on our border with Mexico, impossible to control. But a dozen cowboys in Oregon occupying a bird sanctuary in the winter when it is closed are ambushed and gunned down on a remote highway after the FBI infiltrates their protest with about two dozen agents. This is the weakness in our system that “community organizers” exploit. The real legacy of Obama.

    And with it all, the left and the Paul Ryan branch of the GOPe are puzzled by Trump’s success.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  8. Bob, you nailed it.

    ropelight (93e7ce)

  9. There’s been a shooting in Finland. The unnamed culprit is in custody. Three women, unknown to the shooter, emerged from a restaurant around midnight. The shooter, in a parked car nearby, opened fire with a rifle and killed all three. The shooter then waited quietly in in his car until police arrived whereupon he surrendered “peacefully”. The shooter is said to be 23 years old.

    These are the facts that have been released. But no name, despite the fact that they have him in custody. And there is no “motive” released by the police. Nor have the authorities mentioned whether the women were attending a Christmas party. Anyone want to speculate on his name, motive, and place of origin? Such a mystery.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  10. “PRESIDENT ASH CARTER SAYS U.S. AND ALLIES NEED TO REMAIN IN IRAQ AFTER ISIS DEFEAT: Semi-retired president Barack Obama was unavailable for comment. (Carter’s video interview with Bret Baier is worth the look.)”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/president-ash-carter-says-us-and-allies-need-to-remain-in-iraq-after-isis-defeat-semi-retired-presi/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  11. if we’re gonna stay in that nasty little country idiot loser george bush was so determined to destabilize we should have a proper military base I think

    that’s not a big ask really

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  12. I wonder who brainwashed the San Berdoo police chief. At the time of the attack he seemed like a sensible man. This is how we lose our freedoms, bit by bit.

    Is this all pushback against Trump and his promise that we can say “Merry” Christmas again?

    Patricia (5fc097)

  13. 14 Reasons Muslims Don’t Respect Issa Like You’ve Been Told.

    Pinandpuller (b58f5f)

  14. Re: Ash Carter: Isn’t it remarkable how Democrats can achieve such insights just moments before they turn the management of a war over to Republicans? I don’t recall Carter holding such views when he was confirmed. Holding office is quite an educational experience, apparently. And then there is the opposite lesson learned, as exemplified by McNamara, where he suddenly discover humility after five years of waging a war of attrition that cost us 58,000 killed not to mention all the wounded. He presumed that simply having a kill ratio of ten- or twenty to one would lead to success. He was so certain of his genius that he ignored the need for strategic victory. Again, the office was a marvelous educational experience. And McNamara was supposed to be one of the bright ones, a person who’d analyzed the war with Japan.

    Sort of like McGovern discovering the folly of his legacy legislation, but only after he failed at managing a Bed and Breakfast.

    Trump and his crew will spend many months hauling trash like ObamaCare or DoddFrank to dump. And the Fed is going to have to figure out how to recover from all those doses of QE. These were done in the light of day, and we were supposed to be embarked on utopia in each case. Obama’s legacy!

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  15. If Christmas trees and jingle bells are like kryptonite to Muslims, then in the best interest of their mental health and holistic well-being they should consider not coming here.
    Saudi Arabia might be more to their liking — Christmas is outlawed there!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  16. Patricia,

    Brainwashed is close, but it really doesn’t get to the meat of the matter. I’d go with lobotomized. Perhaps he’s positioning himself for a run at high public office in California. Between Boxer and Pelosi, there’s a clear path to incumbency, and it must involve some fairly serious neurological interventions.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  17. And what a legacy it is, Bob. One that America and the world will be digging out from under for years and years.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  18. So I hear that Nakoula Basseley is planning a remake of the 1986 film Crossroads.

    Expect a twist during the cutting heads finale.

    Pinandpuller (b58f5f)

  19. Dovetails nicely with the Taiwan call. We can’t make the Chinese mad, no telling what those crazy guys will do, so let’s pretend a democratic country doesn’t exist for forty years. And if someone does treat Taiwan like a real country and China loses their s–t, hey we should have known better.

    Pat Buchanan thinks the same thing about expanding NATO. Can’t blame Putin for being mad about the small countries bordering Russia that were occupied and oppressed for forty years, by the people he worked for, oh no, that’s OUR fault for making him mad about it.

    We can’t make the Muslims mad, better not put up Christmas trees, no telling what those crazy guys will do. Everyone has to give the bullies what they want.

    The corollary to not giving in to the bullies, of course, is being credibly prepared to fight them; if the bullies understand that they are very unlikely to make trouble. Either knuckle under every time, or never do it. In a transitional period however, the bullies may be a page behind, like with Chamberlain and Munich. Hitler didn’t think that this time the West really meant it, well he got that wrong.

    Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a)

  20. A crowd source question on a related topic
    (if ya’ll think i am abusing the space with such questions, let me know, and I will stop)

    It is often said that “the Nazi’s were Christians” or “the Nazi’s claimed to be Christians”

    Now, I know that what Hitler and the Nazis believed was anything but “real Christianity”,
    and that many Christians such as Bonhoeffer and the ten Boon family and probably thousands and thousands whose names we will never know knew Hitler nd the Nazis were evil and never agreed with them for a moment.
    And I guess there was a large part of the “state church” that was co-opted at least early on to not oppose the Nazis

    Anybody know where to find a reasonable condensed historical perspective of what really happened?

    thanks

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  21. @Md in Philly:Anybody know where to find a reasonable condensed historical perspective of what really happened?

    Michael Burleigh, “The Third Reich: A New History”.

    When you say “the Nazis” who do you mean? The very top ones, you can actually find out what they believed in many cases. But the rank-and-file who actually carried out most of the atrocities, were for the most part German Christians, very ordinary people.

    Burleigh has a horrifying passage where German career officers try to figure out what to do with an orphanage where the children have no food or water and are continually screaming. In the end they made a drunk Ukranian to go in the building and shoot all the children. These guys were not “Nazis”, but career army officers.

    The line between good and evil divides every human heart.

    Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a)

  22. MD in Philly,

    This Confessing Church wiki offers a decent synopsis.

    Rick Ballard (d17095)

  23. MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/4/2016 @ 10:28 am

    Now, I know that what Hitler and the Nazis believed was anything but “real Christianity”,

    they even produced a revised Bible, copies of which survived for many years only in Lutheran churches in East Germany. I am not sure of what changes they made. They probably did not outright remove “Thou shalt not Kill” but I don’t know.

    Oh I see, They just got rid of the Hebrew Bible altogether and cut the Chrisian Bible by about 60% – and it wasn’t actually called a Bible, and it didn’ quote ahve official backing.

    http://creation.com/hitler-bible

    Jewish references were retained only where they were deemed negative to Judaism. Omitted were the genealogies of Jesus linking him to the OT patriarchs. The baby Jesus was brought to the temple to bring him to God, but was merely given a name, not circumcized. In the Sermon on the Mount, there was no blessing for the merciful. The Sabbath became ‘holiday’.

    Earlier, there was an attempt to revise it:

    http://www.jta.org/1936/02/12/archive/nazi-educators-demand-ban-on-bible

    The Daily Mail says they did re-write the 10 commandments (and not to kill and steal was gone) although maybe that was a different list of new commandments in the forward of the book:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-399470/Jewish-references-erased-newly-Nazi-Bible.html

    Sammy Finkelman (eb0eea)

  24. The Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich, by William L. Shirer, is probably still the best synoptic history of Hitler’s Germany.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a) — 12/4/2016 @ 10:35 am

    These guys were not “Nazis”, but career army officers.

    Career German army officers, who believed in keeping religion (and morality) separate from politics.

    Sammy Finkelman (eb0eea)

  26. A lot of the Nazis called themselves “Gottgloibers”

    Sammy Finkelman (eb0eea)

  27. Doc, I have one anecdote that tells much about about Christianity in Nazi Germany. After the British bombed Peenemunde, there was a huge burial service for the workers who had been killed in the raid. They were generally Christian, and I presume many had lived in the workers quarters on base. These quarters, in fact all of Peenemunde, had been prepared as a worker’s paradise according to the socialist dogma that was at the heart of Nazi belief. The local Bishop asked to attend the services and he was turned down by the Gauleiter who controlled civilian society in that area. Presumably the workers had already experienced the socialist version of heaven? I’m trying to find the reference, it was a book about the V2 program, but I’m pretty sure I’ve got the facts straight.

    And Rick’s link is also an eye-opener. Modern day tyrannies are far more intrusive than anything that preceded them in human history.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  28. ok here for you is an imbibement for to enjoy on a snowy sunday afternoon

    now featuring american-made ingredients!

    get out your trusty shaker

    2 oz gin (i’m using aviation gin from portland but as you can see we’re going to torture it a bit to where a less refined gun would surely serve – I like new amsterdam for that sort of thing – it’s a modestly priced but serviceable gin from E&J Gallo of California, which is in America)

    .5 oz of rhubarb bitters (i’m using fee bros)

    .5 tsp of sugar (or simple to taste)

    i shake all the ingredients first so the sugar dissolves a bit (you’ll still have granule sediment so if that bugs you then you have to make the simple syrup) – then shake again to chill

    use whatever glasses you like – this is much more about taste than aroma i think unless you get fancy and add maybe a lil sprig of rosemary, but I think that’s a bit too fussy for this – the gin and bitters have all the botanicals you could really want, and we’re trying to keep the lil fella from tipping over into being cloying

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  29. Those damn Christians, parading all their religious symbols like Santa Claus, reindeer and fir trees!

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  30. All true, but much of the slander propagated by hochhuth and furthered BBC cornwell and Carroll, was misinterpreting the spy ring Riesling discovered run by pope pius

    narciso (d1f714)

  31. Thanks all,
    maybe you are correct, nk,
    but…

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  32. MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/4/2016 @ 10:28 am

    Hitler was actually into mysticism. Here is a link that provides quotes from his infamous “table talks” which were his ramblings that would last for two hours during dinner.

    “We’ll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. We shall continue to preach the doctrine of National Socialism, and the young will no longer be taught anything but the truth.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 62

    Another quote: “But, even so, it’s impossible eternally to hold humanity in bondage with lies. After all, it was only between the sixth and eighth centuries that Christianity was imposed on our peoples by princes who had an alliance of interests with the shavelings. Our peoples had previously succeeded in living all right without this religion. I have six divisions of SS composed of men absolutely indifferent in matters of religion. It doesn’t prevent them from going to their deaths with serenity in their souls.” –Hitler’s Table Talk, pg 143

    peedoffamerican (310909)

  33. Phillip Kerr’s Bernard gunther series, illustrated the violence demonstrated by Ukrainian nationalists in an earlier tome, and savagery in Croatia under the ustachi

    narciso (d1f714)

  34. Riebling, his previous work was about the FBI\impasse before the gorelick wall,

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. Around November 10th or so, I pushed the wrong button and my radio was scanning through the AM stations. It landed on a station that had been converted to 24 HRS of Christmas music.
    So after muttering some non-celebratory words I changed the station.
    I like to think that if my radio had landed on a 24 HRS of Islam prayer calls and songs, that instead of gassing up the AR and shooting up a mosque , I would simply push the button that skips quickly past the station.

    I know that this poor guy had to endure tinsel trees with garish ornaments, cubicles festooned with snowflakes and cards from friends, relatives and vendors for a couple weeks and was looking to have to slog through another 30 days or so of it before all the crap was stowed away for another year. But even the atheists can celebrate a paid day off.

    In years past, the more curmudgeonly could have hung Santa, some elves, and maybe a reindeer or two from the ceiling, but now I think anything knotted besides a shoe is a micro-aggression, and anything hung is probably a felony so that option is off the table. Maybe it would be OK to hang. as long as it was a Trump piñata with a Santa suit, filled with charcoal. Buy a manger scene in a bottle, fill it with a yellow liquid and call it pee.

    See. There you go. Two simple solutions that don’t involve shooting up the co-workers.

    Also want to call foul on anyone in media spin who says the holiday party was mandatory.
    I doubt “mandatory” because for civil servant union workers there isn’t much that can be done if you no show (particularly if you are from a protected class).

    steveg (5508fb)

  36. The issue of practical concern is,
    what to say when someone says “Christians supported the Nazis, it is a matter of historical fact”?

    Does one concede the premise, and apologize?

    Does one say, “Actually, many pastors and members opposed the nazi takeover of the church, and eventually it was clear the nazis hated Christianity as it was historically known and tried to coopt it into some hybrid with germanic paganism? And those who opposed the Nazis confessed to not doing enough to stop them?

    does one make the point of a difference between “cultural Christians” and believing or confessing Christians?
    (Rick, that was a helpful concise summary)

    I am sure there will be different points of view, looking for something that accurately captures the issue, difficult, I know, perhaps impossible, some things aren’t clear cut.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  37. Some did certainly, but they were betraying their stated , part of the problem lay with nationalists like the oUN and the ystaci, in nominally Catholic countries, some defected to south America or Australia after the war, not to mention the states

    narciso (d1f714)

  38. @Kevin M:Those damn Christians, parading all their religious symbols like Santa Claus, reindeer and fir trees!

    Well, to be fair, during the Crusades the Christian occupiers used to ride through the snow-covered streets of Jerusalem and Antioch, in their reindeer-drawn sleighs, hurling blazing Yule logs at the Muslims and Christians.

    Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a)

  39. @Md in Philly:does one make the point of a difference between “cultural Christians” and believing or confessing Christians?

    If you do too much of that, you’re in “true Scotsman” territory; you’re just defining “true Christians” as those who opposed the Nazis, and defining professing Christians who supported the Nazis as “not true Christians”.

    Christians, through history, have perpetrated plenty of crimes in Christ’s name. There’s times when Christians have done right and times when they’ve done wrong, and often the very same individuals were involved.

    Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a)

  40. Well I wish that I was on ole’ Dar al Harb

    Down in the Tennessee hills

    Ain’t no philactery folks on Dar al Harb

    No more moonshine stills

    Once I had four brides on Dar al Harb

    Two child the other two goat

    Wild as Aaliyah but sweet as Umm Salama

    Thank Allah they never will vote

    Dar al Harb you’ll always Be Salaam sweet Salaam to me

    Good old Dar al Harb, Dar al Harb Tennessee

    Once two Mormons biked up Dar al Harb

    Looking for some souls to save

    Mormons ain’t come down from Dar al Harb

    Start your search in a cave

    Baptists won’t eat at all on Dar al Harb

    Kabob’s too spicy by far

    That’s why all the Baptists ’round Dar al Harb

    Get their kabob from Qatar

    Now I’ve had years of cramped up Gitmo life

    Caught like a snake in a trap

    All I want from life is Shariah Law from Knoxville to Cumberland Gap

    Dar al Harb you’ll always be Salaam sweet Salaam to me

    Good old Dar al Harb

    Dar al Harb Tennessee
    Dar al Harb Tennessee

    Pinandpuller (b58f5f)

  41. Perhaps but it want in keeping with the Christian message.

    narciso (d1f714)

  42. Doc, ordinary Christians who openly challenged the Nazis disappeared. You will not find any evidence of their defiance, and very little evidence of their existence. Perhaps a diary kept by a young girl living in an attic if some very long odds pay off. The same was true of Ukrainian peasants under Stalin in 1932. They simply disappeared. There is nothing to say they ever existed except for copies of birth or marriage certificates stored in other countries, or the memories of relatives who managed to flee before the lid to the pressure cooker was locked closed. The next iteration of these forms of tyranny will be even more comprehensive and intrusive thanks to modern technology and the centralization of production and distribution systems.

    BobStewartatHome (c24491)

  43. Hi Dana
    The article you quoted says the mandatory training and highly decorated lunch may have triggered the attack. This is far different than the meaning you seem to have taken away that the implication is the festivities inspired the attacks. Of course they did not inspire the attacks. There is no link between jingle bells and shooting people. But as a trigger – the straw that broke the camels back – yes it is.

    The shooting was linked to ISIS, and from ISIS’s own magazine Dabiq Issue 15 article “Why We Hate You” we can get a look into their motivations.

    We hate you, first and foremost, because you are disbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah – whether you realize it or not – by making partners for Him in worship, you blaspheme against Him, claiming that He has a son, you fabricate lies against His prophets and messengers, and you indulge in all manner of devilish practices. It is for this reason that we were commanded to openly declare our hatred for you and our enmity towards you…..Furthermore, just as your disbelief is the primary reason we hate you, your disbelief is the primary reason we fight you, as we have been commanded to fight the disbelievers until they submit to the authority of Islam…..

    Given this ridiculous line of thinking and belief, it is quite reasonable that the mandatory holiday training and then lunch was what made the attackers decide “Thats it! Ive had it with these infidel scum. Today is the day.” This is the big problem. Many people actually believe this, and their beliefs inform their actions. Why do you take issue with that conclusion? I feel like it may be an early beginning to the overly sensitive “They are attacking my Christmas” season.

    Gil (0bf8a1)

  44. I should clarify,

    When asking “Why do you take issue with that conclusion” in 43, I do not mean you take issue with the conclusion that beliefs inform actions. Rather the conclusion that the training and luncheon triggered the attack.

    Gil (0bf8a1)

  45. They are not going that far, they refuse to understand that Islam tegatds the son of god as blasphemy,

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. streets of Jerusalem and Antioch, in their reindeer-drawn sleighs

    Getting those reindeer down for the event was a story in itself.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  47. 36.The issue of practical concern is,
    what to say when someone says “Christians supported the Nazis, it is a matter of historical fact”?

    And Christians also commit murder and adultery and abortion and all manner of mans abominations. You do realize there were Jews who supported the Nazi’s in the beginning also. It was not the teaching of any Christian church, even in Germany, to support the Nazi’s. So it is more correctly stated that “Some Christians supported the Nazi’s, but Christianity did not”. You also might add that Islam did, and still does.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  48. But Gil, the “holiday” party was pointedly secular. And the two killers had obviously planned their attack extensively, so it was not a situation where they just snapped.

    And the police chief said it was the clearest thing to a motive not a trigger.

    So it’s all kind of nitpicking but the chief should not have mentioned at all IMO. Just my two cents.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  49. Well, to be fair, during the Crusades the Christian occupiers used to ride through the snow-covered streets of Jerusalem and Antioch, in their reindeer-drawn sleighs, hurling blazing Yule logs at the Muslims and Christians.
    Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a) — 12/4/2016 @ 1:30 pm

    I cry BullSH!T on your phony story! Unless the Crusades happened in the 1800’s, NO Crusaders or Christian occupiers would have been using reindeer or a sleigh to ride around in the desert! You are either sadly misinformed, deliberately falsifying, or too ignorant to know better! You choose which one applies!

    “The first known written account of reindeer in association with the legend of Santa Claus occurred in 1821. That year, New York printer William Gilley published a sixteen page booklet titled A New Year’s Present, to the Little Ones from Five to Twelve Number III : The Children’s Friend by an anonymous author. In the book, reindeer are introduced into the Santa Claus narrative:
    Old Santeclaus with much delight
    His reindeer drives this frosty night.
    O’er chimneytops, and tracks of snow,
    To bring his yearly gifts to you.
    During an 1822 interview, New York’s Troy Sentinel editor Orville L. Holley questioned Mr. Gilley regarding the booklet’s author and the topic of reindeer. Though he did not identify the author, Mr. Gilley responded:
    “Dear Sir, the idea of Santeclaus was not mine nor was the idea of a reindeer. The author of the tale but submitted the piece, with little added information. However, it should be noted that he did mention the reindeer in a subsequent correspondence. He stated that far in the north near the Arctic lands a series of animals exist, these hooven and antlered animals resemble the reindeer and are feared and honored by those around, as you see he claims to have heard they could fly from his mother. His mother being an Indian of the area.”
    In 1823, the Troy Sentinel published the poem A Visit From St. Nicholas, commonly known as The Night Before Christmas. The poem features eight flying reindeer pulling Santa’s sleigh and, for the first time, they are identified by name:
    When what to my wondering eyes should appear,
    But a miniature sleigh and eight tiny reindeer,
    With a little old driver, so lively and quick
    I knew in a moment it must be St. Nick.

    peedoffamerican (310909)

  50. @Gil:Given this ridiculous line of thinking and belief, it is quite reasonable that the mandatory holiday training and then lunch was what made the attackers decide “Thats it! Ive had it with these infidel scum. Today is the day.” This is the big problem. Many people actually believe this, and their beliefs inform their actions. Why do you take issue with that conclusion?

    Suppose the mandatory inclusiveness training had been about LGBT issues, and the triggering decoration had been a rainbow flag.

    The mandatory inclusiveness training was, in my experience, extremely likely to have mentioned multiple faith traditions, including Kwanzaa and Diwali and Hanukah, and that would have been far more “triggering” to a Muslim of his sensitivities than a Christmas-focused training would have been.

    Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a)

  51. Well,
    I do not know who would be the final judge of being a true Scotsman,
    But I do know who is the final judge of a follower of Jesus,
    But, yes, in the meantime it is a difficulty.

    What was the responsibility to resist “openly” or not?
    There were those who did not oppose German soldiers to their face,
    But did hide Jews
    I imagine there were some who went to work in the factories but tried to do as little as possible to help the “war machine”,

    Should people at some point stood in the city square and said “no”?
    IDK, and if I did it wouldn’t be fair for me to say unless I had to actually face it myself.

    Perhaps to have a sword at your throat and be asked to deny Jesus is a simpler thing,
    Than to say no to a government that may ask you eventually to do something your conscience will not let you do,
    Maybe, someday
    But choose to die today
    idk

    That seems to be why most who think abortion is murder do not agree with violence,
    “Future self defense” is not seen as a valid concept,
    At least not in the hands of an individual.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  52. Let’s be clear: The “Christmas-focused training” would be non-religious, secular and all-embracing. It would not be distinctly Christian. Your clue: The center is in Southern California, and it’s 2016.

    Dana (d17a61)

  53. Are some Muslims brittle and fragile and incapable of handling diversity in a pluralistic society? If that’s the case, maybe they should go live in a Muslim country.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  54. The Italian referendum has put Renzi out of office – next stop Italexit.

    Rick Ballard (d17095)

  55. Even if the sole focus had been Christmas, which I find UNLIKELY IN EXTREME, here’s the thing:

    Atheists in this country do not lose their s–t and start killing people over Christmas. They might sue.

    Buddhists in this country do not lose their s–t and start killing people over Christmas. They might sue.

    Hindus in this country do not lose their s–t and start killing people over Christmas. They might sue.

    Jehovah’s Witnesses in this country do not lose their s–t and start killing people over Christmas. They might sue.

    There is one group here who is not like the others.

    Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a)

  56. @Gil: I’ll tell you my favorite Muslim-at-a-holiday party story:

    It was a Fourth of July barbecue and I offered a Muslim guest his choice of meet from the grill, or anything else he needed. He declined any of the meat, on account of its being haram, but that he would like one of the beers I had in the cooler.

    It’s not even all Muslims who lose their s–t, just a vastly disproportionate percentage of them. A tiny minority of a tiny minority should not have a terrorist veto over harmless celebrations.

    Gabriel Hanna (9b1f4a)

  57. So we are now to believe that all Muslim immigrants keep a small arsenal with thousands of rounds of ammo and have a bomb-making factory in their apartment just in case they have to go to a Christmas party or gay bar or college?

    Is that what they are telling is? This is a cultural thing like Mexicans and sombreros or Germans and sausages? Is that where they really want to go?

    WarEagle82 (641089)

  58. I lived abroad for many years. In one place, a major ethnic group was ostensibly Muslim and were reasserting their cultural identity after many years of Soviet imposed “Russification.”

    I had more than one of them invite me to their homes so they could explain how they were Muslims over beer and pork barbecue.

    The irony seemed to be utterly lost on them….

    WarEagle82 (641089)

  59. Renzi probably won’t quit after all. (did h lose? The various Evening News’ didn’t have any results as of 6-7 PM EST (3-4 PST)

    Sammy Finkelman (eb0eea)

  60. 57. WarEagle82 (641089) — 12/4/2016 @ 4:35 pm

    So we are now to believe that all Muslim immigrants keep a small arsenal with thousands of rounds of ammo and have a bomb-making factory in their apartment just in case they have to go to a Christmas party or gay bar or college?

    Is that what they are telling us? …

    No, authorities are telling us they are a bunch of fools, or somebody somewhere somewhat in charge is. They want to find a personal motive and leave it at that.

    The man had actually planned a terrorst attack, two different ones, wth a friend, and gave up on it. The wife was a terrorist from the start. I would even suspect the complaint in the online account about the Christmas party was just a way to look normal and make it look like nothing was being planned. She wanted to say he was going there, and then added a “normal” – for her – reaction.

    And the student in Ohio State who also, I think, was sent from Pakistan already loyal to terrorism?

    I read there’s some question about his age, according to the New York Times, which also noted the college had his age as 18. The New York Times did not report what was the question about his age, but I would suspect it was maybe that he was older than he claimed to be.

    The Wall Street Journal found some people who knew him in Pakistan. The Somali community in Pakistan is pretty small. His family lived in Lahore and in Islamabad. No word on anything but he probably led a double life. He spoke English very well with only a slight accent and did very well in school. Nothing strange about the family, which arrived in the U.S. all together, except that they always parked their car in a parking space that other people always conveniently left vacant for them: next to a fire hydrant. They had first been placed in Dallas. Many refugees are places in Dallas but move, sometimes to rural meat packing plants. Colummbus, Ohio has the second largest concentration of somalis in the United states next to Minneapolis.

    The contents of the Facebook page that was taken down have not been released but there were some leaks to reporters.

    Sammy Finkelman (eb0eea)

  61. @52

    It does not matter that the training was all inclusive. As long as the message is not that Islam is the one true religion, it is enough to incense a member of ISIS.

    @Gabriel

    At my last job, I worked and was friends with several muslims who each had his/her own degree that they took Islam. One ate pork and drank, another wouldnt eat meat that was haram and took breaks to pray during his shift etc. I agree no terrorist action (or threat) should dictate activities whether it be publishing images of a supposed prophet or celebrating a different religious holiday. I did not intend for the takeaway from my comment to be that these events should not happen so that terrorist attacks would be avoided. That would be folly.

    I completely agree with you on 55. Islam is producing terrorists at such a high percentage that you might as well call it exclusive. But the other faiths have nothing to say to convince Muslims that they are wrong that doesnt boil down to “No, you misunderstand the will of the creator of the universe”. Instead I think skepticism, science, and reality need to be given a chance to hammer away at the muslims the same way they hammered away at Christians. Sadly I dont know that we have the time to wait for that to happen.

    Gil (0bf8a1)

  62. But Gil, the “holiday” party was pointedly secular. And the two killers had obviously planned their attack extensively, so it was not a situation where they just snapped.

    A secular party is just as bad to someone who thinks Islam is the one true religion and that hates infidels and believes that they are commanded to fight them. Of course they were planning it and stockpiled weapons etc. But it could have happened at any time. Was it a coincidence then that it happened on the same day as something blasphemous in their eyes? They could have chosen literally any other day. Again let me restate, I do not fault the holiday party or the trainings. I simply draw a straight line between ISIS’s stated motivations and the fact that this happened on this specific day.

    Gil (0bf8a1)

  63. Gil (0bf8a1) — 12/4/2016 @ 6:33 pm

    Was it a coincidence then that it happened on the same day as something blasphemous in their eyes?

    You could argue that they needed that to oovercome their conscience, but that’s not really what happened here.

    They could have chosen literally any other day.

    No, they needed a lot of people together.

    Maybe they needed them all to be U.S. government employees, and so, “legitimate” targets, and maybe also they needed people taht they did not know personally, for the most part.

    Sammy Finkelman (eb0eea)


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