Trump 2015: Burning the American Flag Is Free Speech
I’m not sure if you heard, but Donald Trump tweeted out something about burning the flag recently. It’s true. He did:
Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag – if they do, there must be consequences – perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 29, 2016
Oh and also he brought it up again tonight, in one of his victory lap rallies, because that’s good demagoguery.
Do you agree with my stance? That, if people burn the American flag, there should be consequence, right?
The only thing is . . . does he really believe it?
The Washington Post reports today that Trump had a different opinion in 2015 while on David Letterman’s show.
LETTERMAN: Here’s the example that I’m always proud of as an American. People, to demonstrate, they think, we’re really gonna stick it to the United States. ‘We’re going to set fire to the flag.
TRUMP: Yeah, right.
LETTERMAN: And people get — “Oh my God!” Well, no. If that’s how you feel, go ahead and burn the flag.
TRUMP: Yeah.
LETTERMAN: Because this country is far greater than that symbol, and that symbol is standing for freedom of expression.
TRUMP: Sure. It’s true. It’s happened. It’s true. You’re 100 percent right. Hey, he’s really into it tonight! I’ll tell you what. No, but I understand where you’re coming from, and it’s terrific.
I think Donald Trump should be stripped of his citizenship for agreeing with David Letterman. If you don’t agree, then you don’t love America like I do.
[Cross-posted at RedState.]
There should be consequences.
Patterico (115b1f) — 12/1/2016 @ 8:50 pmNow you’re just trying to hard to troll.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 12/1/2016 @ 8:58 pmtoo hard
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 12/1/2016 @ 8:58 pmwell hanging around letterman makes everyone dumber, that’s why Obama went there so many times,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/1/2016 @ 9:01 pm“WALTER RUSSELL MEAD: Trump’s Path To Mt. Rushmore: Smart energy policy could give the next President his best prospect for spurring growth in manufacturing jobs—and thus delivering on the promises his voters think matter most…”
https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/250660/
Colonel Haiku (fa3dba) — 12/1/2016 @ 9:01 pmyou know my feeling about the gap toothed weatherman from Muncie, camelbert was another nasty swamp to troll through, and john oliver getting all out of sorts was worth the price of admission,
narciso (d1f714) — 12/1/2016 @ 9:10 pmTrump always speaks in extremes when he is trying to control the conversation.
It is all negotiation-speak> He is one of those guys that knows that the first person to mention a number loses… except if you toss out an outrageously high number.
He doesn’t care that you can’t revoke citizenship for this and deport for that. All he cares about is moving the dial into his favor.
This stuff is also like a weather vane… he tosses out some crazy ultimatum and the sees how it plays.
He’d be annoying to give a price to. I’d have to figure out my costs, add in profit and overhead and then double it, or just walk away and go work for someone else.
He’d also be annoying to try to buy a building from him.
How much? 1.5 Billion
$1.5B? the building next door is larger, better views, newer, has more parking and it is going for $900M I’ll give you $700M
OK I disagree with everything you say because my building is fabulous, built by the best, yak yak yak but will let you have it for 1.3B
he’d drive me crazy and I would not deal with him… but the world has to deal with him now because we are still a huge economy and a huge world power and a lot of leaders know they hold weak hands and have already begun to blink 50 days out from inauguration
steveg (5508fb) — 12/1/2016 @ 10:47 pmTrump threw down on Mexico
Look how vulnerable they are to a tax on the outflow of remittances
“Remittances sent home by Mexicans working outside the country surpassed petroleum revenues in 2015 for the first time. There was a 4.75% increase in money sent from abroad, most of which comes from the U.S., to total US $24.8 billion last year, up from $23.6 billion in 2014, said the Bank of México.
steveg (5508fb) — 12/1/2016 @ 10:53 pmThe bank said it was the first time remittances had totaled more than petroleum revenues since it began tracking them in 1995. Oil revenues last year totaled $23.4 billion.”
http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/remittances-totaled-oil-income/
It’s worse than that. Some people drive a hard bargain, and negotiate a price that’s lower than you wanted, but OK, that’s business. Trump will agree to your price, and then when you’ve done the work he’ll stiff you. He’ll offer you what he wants to pay and tell you to take it or leave it. If the difference is less than the cost of litigation, you’ve got no choice but to take it. And he’s proud of it; he thinks that’s how business is done.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 12/1/2016 @ 10:59 pmIt should worry everyone that he thinks it’s possible to cancel someone’s citizenship.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 12/1/2016 @ 11:00 pmHere’s an excellent explanation of why this is important.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 12/1/2016 @ 11:01 pmIt should worry everyone that he thinks it’s possible to cancel someone’s citizenship.
You can revoke an immigrant’s citizenship under certain circumstances, but not a native-born person’s, like Trump or Cruz.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/1/2016 @ 11:58 pmSo what you’re saying is, provided one was well enough armed to repulse a prophylactic assault by Dave or Dave’s hired security, it’s perfectly okay to burn an American flag on David Letterman’s porch, perhaps as a note of descent against Letterman going full gorebot.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 1:24 amthat’s why I said I would double my price… I’d also adjust my billing so the final payment is a number I could walk away from and still make money
this was learned by having some tough deals with the sisters of the Shah of Iran.
they could not believe that our way of doing business with wealthy people here in my town is to figure cost of materials, equipment and labor plus profit an overhead. competition keeps the prices fair and we all would rather have a 12% profit of a million and years of business and referrals than 25% in a one off deal.
The Persians assumed that no sane person ever would put out a price that wasn’t at least doubled and their opening gambit was to try to cut the price in half and then they’d close by never ever paying their last bill because it seemed to be a crime against allah to pay a final bill.
I don’t work for people like that anymore. The constant haggling is a day killer and I’m not wired to constantly look for weaknesses and overcharging for what they want but don’t know how much the wanted item costs.
I help my clients with what they don’t know and charge them the same percentage mark up.
But with the Persians it was: they screwed me out of a 1000 so next time they want something extra I’d ding them for my costs plus an extra $2500. I had to constantly look for weakness and advantage.
Its bad for the soul.
That said, I hope Trump chisels the Iranians and Chinese half to death.
steveg (5508fb) — 12/2/2016 @ 1:30 amNo, you can’t. Once someone has been validly naturalized, it’s permanent unless the person voluntarily renounces it. Hence the Rasmea Odeh saga, where the government has to prove that she was never naturalized in the first place.
Cruz is not native-born; his citizenship comes not from the 14th amendment but from a statute, which congress could change retroactively if it wanted to. His citizenship is revokable, but only by revoking it for all people born abroad to US citizens, since at least the date he was born.
Milhouse (40ca7b) — 12/2/2016 @ 5:22 amOh, Milhouse. Please don’t start this again.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:10 amCruz is not native-born; his citizenship comes not from the 14th amendment but from a statute, which congress could change retroactively if it wanted to. His citizenship is revokable, but only by revoking it for all people born abroad to US citizens, since at least the date he was born.
Yes, yes, yes. And we could retroactively change all the statutes of inheritance and title to property, too, and everything would revert to the original owners or excheat to the state. Not only that, Congress could retroactively grant diplomatic status to all the parents of the children of immigrants, legal and illegal, and they would fall under one of the recognized exceptions to Fourteenth Amendment citizenship.
Ex post facto? That cain’t be American law! It ain’t even writ in American!
nk (dbc370) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:16 amCrush videos are political speech, that seems even more ludictoud
narciso (d1f714) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:35 amYou’re going to be a PITA for the next 4 or 8 years, aren’t you? That’s alright. I still prefer having you kvetching about Trump, rather than me ragging on your butt about Hillary as I threatened, pre-election.
To tout my own prescience, look at the pushback he’s already received on this. He’ll get more, on every every proposal, and only the most popular will come to fruition. Do you honestly think that any “law” will be proposed? Of course not. Now, lets go back to your fake Hillary tweet about 100% tax rates – if she were in, would tax increases be aimed at anything she didn’t like, and would serious legislation to accomplish conficatory (if not 100%) rates? Yep.
I think the WC Fields quote, “All in all, I’d rather be in Philadelphia” to be appropriate. It’s not good, but better than the alternative.
BTW, I agree that there should be consequences for flag-burning, just not ones created by the gov’t.
bud (df4605) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:57 amIsn’t that how lawyers do business every day? They seem pretty proud of it.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 12/2/2016 @ 7:14 amSo basically you’re saying Trump will say or do anything to be popular with the people he thinks are important to his success whether he intends to follow through on it or not unlike other politicians.
crazy (d3b449) — 12/2/2016 @ 7:19 amAnd you thought that waking up to a brand new world every morning was a trait of Democrat politicians?
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 12/2/2016 @ 8:26 amI hope Trump succeeds as President, and that he doesn’t confuse himself as much as he confuses everyone else.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/2/2016 @ 8:55 amDavid Letterman threatens to burn the flag like some kind of bearded jihadi fresh from the tent, but the headline is Trump will let him.
It’s not that confusing.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 9:42 amSay – wasn’t David Letterman the guy actually using his fame to grab women’s crotches?
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 9:45 amWhy are you pointing at David Letterman as stand-in for virtue?
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 9:50 amThere is no virtue in this story.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/2/2016 @ 9:52 amThe flag is a common symbol of our civic religion, David upham explained, how did third rate jesters like Maher and camelbert become savantd
narciso (d1f714) — 12/2/2016 @ 9:52 amLiterally no one on this thread is doing that, papersquirrel. They’re pointing out that Donald Trump is a human windsock, beyond just being orange.
Leviticus (efada1) — 12/2/2016 @ 9:53 amSpeaking of virtue, the world has no idea how many unpaid interns lost their virtue on David Letterman’s casting couch.
But if he keeps pushing global warming as if it were real
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 9:56 amThe point among the feckless weasels like letterman, its considered unfashionable to defend the flag, for reason i described earlier.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/2/2016 @ 10:08 amYou know who else uses his limited celebrity status to grab married women’s crotches, robbing them of their virtue?
That guy from the play Hamilton.
He was bragging about it on twitter back before anyone thought to notice.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 10:15 amYou should hear what lewandowski said of dean banquet.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/2/2016 @ 10:16 amIt’s good that we have Levi here to explain.
Because otherwise we might be confused.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 10:17 amWouldn’t that be funny if a stand it for a nationalist thug like Aaron Burr were out burning the national ensign.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 10:27 amit seems like there’s a correlation between those in favor of burning the flag, and those in favor of grabbing strange women by the crotch
.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 10:30 am> a nationalist thug like Aaron Burr
Aaron Burr, a nationalist? Nonsense. He was involved in a scheme to detach the Louisiana territory and make it a seperate country. He was tried for treason and, while he was acquitted, it was generally believed that he got off on a technicality and that he had, in fact, been involved in a conspiracy against the US.
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/aaron-burr-arrested-for-treason
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 12/2/2016 @ 3:10 pm1. Pointing out the hypocrisy of the person selected as our leader is never “trolling.”
2. Even if it was “trolling,” this isn’t hard. Remember, Trump has been a nationally-known celebrity for almost four decades. It’s isn’t difficult at all to find him tripping all over his past remarks.
L.N. Smithee (b84cf6) — 12/2/2016 @ 3:43 pmGood to know. Remind me not to vote for that guy, either.
L.N. Smithee (b84cf6) — 12/2/2016 @ 3:44 pmI love how noble and kind President Trump is so far.
His loving and generous spirit has renewed the hope of so so many people who’d forgotten hope entire.
It’s so good.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/2/2016 @ 4:25 pmWhen he wasn’t handing out gov jobs to his friends, murdering his political enemies, and in between open rebellions, Aaron Burr (the real one) was quite the whore monger.
It’s amazing how many of the stories from his contemporaries seeking to rehabilitate the man with tales of his generosity always end with the target of that generosity being a young widow with children to feed, down on her luck, willing to come to some arrangement.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 5:23 pmWhen he wasn’t handing out gov jobs to his friends, murdering his political enemies, and in between open rebellions, Aaron Burr (the real one) was quite the crotch monger.
It’s amazing how many of the stories from his contemporaries seeking to rehabilitate the man with tales of his generosity always end with the target of that generosity being a young widow with children to feed, down on her luck, willing to come to some arrangement.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 5:26 pmAaron Burr, the first Texian? I’m sure those slightly less crazy then their countrymen los regios would have liked that a lot.
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 12/2/2016 @ 5:42 pmHamilton was quite a ladysman himself, but it was more discreet.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/2/2016 @ 5:47 pmpapertiger, you’re the only one who thinks that Aaron Burr enjoyed a good reputation before the minstrel show “outed” him. Everybody who knew anything always knew that he was an absolute asshole. In fact a murderer. He challenged Hamilton to a duel and Hamilton fired to miss, obvious to everyone there including Burr. Burr, instead of also firing to miss and “honor deemed satisfied” took careful aim and killed him. This is not something that just became news.
nk (dbc370) — 12/2/2016 @ 5:51 pmAaron Burr founder of Tammany Hall.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:00 pmEven when he was in the stockade on trial for treason cuckolded the magistrate’s daughter, the jailer’s wife.
cuckolded the magistrate’s daughter, the jailer’s wife.
He had sex with her husband? Are you sure that’s not just gay agenda “everybody does it” propaganda?
nk (dbc370) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:09 pmIn fact, until this year downgraded him to third place, Burr was the most corrupt and openly immoral person to have a chance at being President in US History.
Kishnevi (480bf9) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:14 pmBurr’s contemporaries, to their credit, wrote an amendment specifically to prevent another Aaron Burr from happening to the country, if in some latter day we collectively fell asleep at the wheel.
Burr was the Oakland Raiders of politics. Only he and FDR have this distinction, an amendment to make sure their type of shenanigans never happen again.
Both self serving Democrats. One before Democrat as a party of had even been well defined.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:32 pmRepublicans strive to be included on Mount Rushmore.
Democrats strive to have their crimes prohibited by constitutional amendment.
Funny.
papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:36 pmAnd born in Jersey, to link to that other thread about New Jersey’s utility.
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:39 pmI think there’s a conjunction in there.
narciso (d1f714) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:57 pm49. papertiger (c8116c) — 12/2/2016 @ 6:32 pm
Interesting thought. Two people who causd an amendent to the U.S. constitution. I think the 11th amendment was also caused by something specific.
In FDR’s case it wasn’t shenanigans, just something that had mostly never happened before. Truman said the Republicans outsmarted themselves (not those words, but that idea) because Eisenhower couldn’t run for a third term. But he probably wouldn’t have anyway, and also Reagan, because of age.
But three presidents since then have definitely been affected by the 22nd amendment: Clinton, Bush II and Obama. Nixon also would have been but he got into an impeachmnent process first. Truman was specifically exempted from it, and Johnson was still eligible for another term in 1968. Theodoore Roosevekt didn’t run in 1908 because of tradition, but then tried again in 1912, and might also have in 1920, and won, had he lived, and Coolidge also just did not run in 1928. Anyway al the time till FDr the United states never had a president serve as third term. Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe and probably Andrew Jackson stoped on purpose at two terms. Then we went through a period when they were saying a president should serve only one term. The last president to deliberately limit himself to one term was Hayes.
Sammy Finkelman (eb0eea) — 12/4/2016 @ 6:01 pm