Patterico's Pontifications

11/9/2016

Spending a Trillion Dollars for “Infrastructure”: A Top Trump Priority

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:37 pm



The new President comes into office after having been voted in by an enthusiastic group of supporters that critics call a “cult of personality.” His empty and vague promises of hope and change seem vapid to many, but his voters swoon over them. The previous president from the opposing party spent like a drunken sailor over the course of eight years, and doubled the national debt to a figure so staggering, encompassing so many trillion dollars, that fiscally responsible people cannot imagine running any more deficits.

And yet, the new president says, we must spend a trillion dollars on a stimulus program that will give money for shovel-ready infrastructure projects. Democrats in Congress say the new president is really on to something.

Barack Obama? Or Donald Trump?

Can anyone here tell me the difference?

In a triumphant victory speech early Wednesday, President-elect Donald J. Trump cited the issue as a top priority for his administration.

“We are going to fix our inner cities and rebuild our highways, bridges, tunnels, airports, schools, hospitals,” Mr. Trump said. “We’re going to rebuild our infrastructure, which will become, by the way, second to none.”

. . . .

During the presidential campaign, Mr. Trump pledged to spend nearly $1 trillion on infrastructure, seeking to outshine Hillary Clinton on an issue that is a growing concern for many Americans.

Nancy Pelosi says it sounds great to her:

Pelosi, who was speaker of the House during Obama’s first two years in office and helped drive the passage of Obamacare, suggested there may even be a few points of agreement on legislative priorities.

“As President-elect Trump indicated last night, investing in infrastructure is an important priority of his,” she said. “We can work together to quickly pass a robust infrastructure jobs bill.”

Whenever you repeat an idea of Barack Obama’s, which helped him double the national debt, and Nancy Pelosi gives you the thumbs up . . . well, I think you have a real winner there.

[Cross-posted at RedState.]

105 Responses to “Spending a Trillion Dollars for “Infrastructure”: A Top Trump Priority”

  1. Jeez.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. The correct response is, “Gee, we already spent all that money in the stimulus package to repair the nation’s infrastructure. Until we have a full audit of where it went and what good it did, we won’t allocate one penny more.”

    JVW (6e49ce)

  3. Seriously though, this is one of the major problems of electing a businessman, especially one who is a builder. He will want some sort of monument to his Presidency, and new highways and tunnels and bridges will sound to him like a splendid idea.

    JVW (6e49ce)

  4. Might actually go to the infrastructure this time instead of to favored constituents pockets. Graft, it’s what’s for dinner.

    Rather cut from other areas first. How about closing the dept of education for starters.

    NJRob (a07d2e)

  5. His kids and grandkids won’t have to pay for it. Just like he didn’t have to. They’ll only have to pay their tax lawyers.

    nk (dbc370)

  6. Might actually go to the infrastructure this time instead of to favored constituents pockets. Graft, it’s what’s for dinner.

    This is the trap that the Bushes fell into: that we can somehow make Big Government work if we apply business principles to it. I don’t think the President-elect is going to do any better than his predecessors at enforcing fiscal responsibility in larded up spending programs.

    JVW (6e49ce)

  7. This is the DJT version of W’s Medicaid expansion: Sincerely believe this is a need and try to make points with the Dems, or at least stifle their cries of “monster!”

    “Marketing” costs just got a whole lot bigger for corporate America.

    Reince and the boys are so gonna play DJT.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  8. Well, LA could use some subways. Sepulveda from Mission Hills to LAX, Wilshire to Santa Monica, and while we’re at it, Venice Blvd and La Brea could use some lines. MNaybe across Nordoff.

    Oh, yeah, also a tunnel through Little Tujunga to run a line from Downtown to Palmdale Airport, maybe past Chavez Ravine.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  9. “Dibs!”

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  10. Let’s let Tommy Carcetti explain it for us:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjmFRMERwC4

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  11. I suspect that on every inhabited planet in the universe, road building is a cesspool of corruption.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  12. Infrastructure projects can be anything from “Let’s make some bike lanes” to “Extend Interstate 40 to Santa Barbara”. But an infrastructure bill is not a jobs bill. You engage in a project because of what will happen after the project is done, not because of how many people you can pay along the way.

    Nick M. (d6362a)

  13. Shocking that a New York Liberal Democrat would want to spend a ton of money.

    But his supporters will say its okay because we won. Sure, won what? More big government?

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (2ab6f6)

  14. pervy Mitt Romney’s slicked-up boy toy Paul Ryan pissed away the spending argument for Team R many many moons ago

    that ship has sailed

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. His first quest for mandate. Will non metros simply ask for their cut or will they insist on the wall before anything?

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  16. Well, we do need the infrastructure improvements. But more than we need those, we need to start digging ourselves out of debt.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  17. I predicted that he would build a ton of HUD housing and give the contracts to his companies run by his kids, and somebody here snarked “You don’t know what he’s going to do”. I guess I didn’t. I was thinking of millions in graft, not billions. The same guy asked, about Hillary, why someone would spend millions to get a $400,000/year job. Trump spent $60 million. Here’s the answer why he did.

    nk (dbc370)

  18. Mister, we could use a man
    Like Herbert Hoover again.

    Herbert Hoover was the last Republican President to have a Republican House and Senate, in 1929, and you know what happened then. I’m looking forward to the next FDR in 2020.

    On the bright side, there might be a resurgence of pulp fiction.

    nk (dbc370)

  19. I kinda wondered what Mr. Feet would be vulgar about if HRC lost.

    So I guess we are back to calling decent people people pervy and such. I guess it’s not enough to say you disagree with someone’s policy. You have to be a jackass in this new reality.

    All pervey all the time, instead of all pig up in it all the time.

    Now that’s value added, Patterico!

    Simon Jester (c63397)

  20. nonono pickle-poo you are miss the point

    pervy Mitt Romney’s slicked-up boy toy Paul Ryan could have done the fiscal responsibility well before Mr. Trump came along but he chose not to

    now he has no ground to defend no hill on which to plant such a flag

    cause he’s a phony

    a phony baloney

    Mr. Trump is taking office at a time when fiscal responibility simply is not a thing in failmerica’s capitol

    and this is not his fault

    the president does not hold the purse strings

    mitt’s naughty boy ryan does

    though they’re apt to slip through his lubed-up fingers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  21. fiscal *responsibility* simply is not a thing i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. but just you wait til idiot harvardtrash janet’s inflation fire starts raging

    lol

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  23. Shocking that a New York Liberal Democrat would want to spend a ton of money.

    But his supporters will say its okay because we won. Sure, won what? More big government?

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (2ab6f6) — 11/10/2016 @ 3:51 am

    Eh, we’re only 18T in the hole. What’s another T?

    Bill H (971e5f)

  24. nk, maybe you are talking about incoming Presidents. W had a GOP Congress for tw years. He used it to pass a prescription drug benefit.

    Patterico (6ff3a1)

  25. Was I meant to understand comment 20, happy? Are you for spending a trillion dollars on infrastructure or against it? Could you please give me another wall of incomprehensible text that insults Paul Ryan and defends Donald Trump while failing to address how you are supposedly in favor of fiscal responsibility while your new orange Jesus is proposing spending a trillion dollars we don’t have? Thanks in advance!

    Patterico (6ff3a1)

  26. Well,
    if it really went to infrastructure it would be an improvement

    what kind of infrastructure?

    Is EMP rally a threat, by attack or solar flare?
    if so that would be a nice thing to start,
    more firewalls to isolate regions from each other in sabotage
    the US population would not do well all of a sudden returning to 1900 without the knowledge and self-reliant resources of 1900

    if infrastructure includes the border

    but, yeah, everything is suspect until evidence is seen

    I don’t think he is incarnate evil,
    but his public behavior and talk does work against him being a virtuous man

    Praying that he would have a road to Damascus experience, and all of a sudden become polite and respectful and humble
    that would through people off

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  27. nk, maybe you are talking about incoming Presidents. W had a GOP Congress for tw years. He used it to pass a prescription drug benefit.

    Thank you, Patterico. That’s what I get for getting my information from television election night coverage.

    nk (dbc370)

  28. Yea, let’s keep complaining about how bad the country’s roads and bridges are and just enjoy the detours and traffic jams instead talking about how to fix it. If you can’t find the money to repair and maintain national infrastructure in the budget it’s only because you’re not looking. Solyndra? Treadmill for shrimp? Obama phones? Boob jobs and hormones for warriors? A million here, a million there pretty soon you’ve found the money.

    crazy (d3b449)

  29. Nailed Col H. Amen

    crazy (d3b449)

  30. Most of this is not a federal responsibility. It does not take a trillion dollars to fix potholes on the interstates. Pork pork porkity pork. #pleaseclap

    Patterico (6ff3a1)

  31. He ought to talk to Obama first. Obama already fixed the infrastructure, didn’t he?

    Kevin, I see you’re a fan too! The Wire pretty much explains everything in our country right now. How can David Simon be a Democrat though, as he portrays a city slowly strangled to death by their one-party rule?

    Patricia (5fc097)

  32. The guide should be to “Do the right things and Do the right things, right.” I completely agree that spending solely to shovel money to favored groups is the problem, not the solution. Fixing the I-5 mess ahead of schedule and below budget after the Northridge quake is an example of good use of taxpayer dollars on infrastructure.

    crazy (d3b449)

  33. Q. Why is no one praising Kellyanne Conway? She became the first woman to run a successful Presidential campaign.
    A. That would steal some of Trump’s media space. There is only one sun in the sky and only one person who matters when talking about Trump. Trump.

    nk (dbc370)

  34. Re The Wire, then Martin O’Malley (inspiration for Carcetti, as was Nancy P’s dad) was the real Luke Skywalker for them?

    urbanleftbehind (c8adc7)

  35. Funny thing: all of these people pining for Trump to “run the country like a business” seem to have (conveniently) forgotten that the driving force of “business” is personal profit motive. Which Trump understands well, and will undoubtedly pursue.

    And these are the same people who thought (as far as they “thought” at all) that Clinton was unfit for office because of “corruption.”

    Leviticus (efada1)

  36. Good luck on getting that answer, Patterico.

    Pervy happyfeet (and what is with all the sicko stuff, dude—go get your ashes hauled or something) writes:

    ….cause he’s a phony….

    Well, someone is, certainly.

    Like I have written before, he is just pooping all over your website. And he doesn’t have to. He could, and has, contributed useful and readable stuff.

    Interesting that he doesn’t.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  37. On another note, I want to explicitly thank Leviticus for giving me much to think about during this awful campaign season. Well done.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  38. I’m wondering how much a Clinton speech goes for these days.

    crazy (d3b449)

  39. Yeah. HRC will make quite a bit of money. So will Bill.

    But BHO will make a TON of cash. And I fully expect to see him as SG of the UN.

    That’s the job he was born for.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  40. The best infrastructure investment we could make would be to widen K Street in D. C. Turn it into a freeway with eight lanes in each direction, no need for on ramps or off ramps. And then dig a giant tunnel underneath it just because.

    BobStewartatHome (a52abe)

  41. Leviticus @36. They want Trump to run it like a business but not a sole proprietorship. That’s what Kliiary was doing. We all know government isn’t a business but that doesn’t mean the basic principles can’t work for efficiency’s sake. I do know we’ve had a sh!t load of lawyers who have created what we now have. Thanks.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  42. Are you for spending a trillion dollars on infrastructure or against it? Could you please give me another wall of incomprehensible text that insults Paul Ryan and defends Donald Trump while failing to address how you are supposedly in favor of fiscal responsibility while your new orange Jesus is proposing spending a trillion dollars we don’t have?

    the failmerican government doesn’t have a good record of spending money wisely

    but as ever the devil’s in the details about the infrastructure spending

    infrastructure is an asset – quite a different thing than how feckless incompetent george w. bush spended uncounted monies slaughtering and maiming civilians and our own soldiers with absolutely nothing to show for it at the end of the day 🙁

    and not just the details

    there’s also the broader context of President Trump’s agenda to consider

    i’m a wait and see

    e.g. infrastructure paired with substantive deregulation and tax reform might be fun to see

    and honest to pickles

    just having something to show for all the brutal tax rape and profligacy would be refreshing

    and yeah sleazy Mitt Romney and his snotty slicked-up little boy Paul do not add value

    you can tell because of how they have not added any value

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  43. “On another note, I want to explicitly thank Leviticus for giving me much to think about during this awful campaign season. Well done.”

    – Simon Jester

    If nothing else positive comes of it, I think this election cycle has been a strong reminder to the importance of good faith dialogue.

    Primarily exemplified by the absolute lack of good faith dialogue at every level in this election cycle, and the resulting trainwrecks. But good faith dialogue did survive on this site (not unscathed, of course), and I appreciate your part in that as well, Simon.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  44. Oh, I get mad at all kinds of things. I hate all the nastiness and stupid names. It’s a failing of mine, I’m sure.

    But I learned a lot. Some of it from you, and I wanted to be clear about that.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  45. I do know we’ve had a sh!t load of lawyers who have created what we now have. Thanks.

    There are overzealous and arrogant attorneys in government and private practice, just as there are in every occupation. However, helping people right wrongs and defend themselves is not a negative. In addition, crafting laws and rules to help us all live in a society where we solve problems in courts instead of with violence is a positive.

    All of us, including lawyers, have played a role in letting our government get out of control. But at this website and many others, notice that it is mostly lawyers who are arguing for a return to limited government through conservative and Constitutional protections. I hope Trump is a great leader but ultimately the answer isn’t a savior strongman. Limited government comes from the rule of law, where laws apply to everyone.

    People who supported Trump because they feared Hillary should know that better than anyone.

    DRJ (15874d)

  46. I could really rather live without happyfeet’s obsession with all things mansex.

    Pretty please?

    Eric in Hollywood (6e8226)

  47. i have to sing my truth Mr. Hollywood

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  48. On a pure disciple-of-Bastiat-and-Smith basis, I am against government spending on infrastructure in principle.

    I’m against government building roads, I’m against government building hospitals, I’m against government building schools, I’m against government using eminent domain to seize land and give to railroads, you name it.

    There is pretty much no one except maybe Patterico and a few others who believe this, and no chance of such a wise government in my lifetime.

    That being said, if Trump is bound and determined to build a trillion dollars worth of stuff we would already have built if we wanted it bad enough, I suggest he build 50 nuclear power plants and some new dams with reservoirs. YUGE ones. He can put gold-plated Ts on them.

    We can do a lot with cheap energy. Is it an economic distortion? You bet it is.

    But the last trillion went to social workers, teachers, and state budgets, and having been spent its gone.

    Cheap energy would allow us to do a lot of things more cheaply.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  49. Your truth is on a billboard in West Hollywood, for all the credibility you give it.

    I don’t know who it was that told you you’re amusing wordsmith with a definite creative voice, but I can assure you, they were gravely mistaken.

    Whatever valid points you may have to make, you immediately destroy.

    My stars, you’re a born Trumpkin.

    Never mind, then. Carry on.

    Eric in Hollywood (6e8226)

  50. And you know what? Dams and nuclear plants don’t have to be built again every year. Teachers and social workers and nurses continue to need their salaries and in the end their pensions, dams and nuclear plants actually produce something for many decades after they are built.

    France has done this, overbuilt nuclear power and also built waste reprocessing–they do sometimes have to pay the Netherlands and Germany to take their extra power. Harry Reid is going out so he won’t be able to block the use of Yucca Mountain, which he was happy to have the government build.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  51. ouch

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  52. Anyway, just saying, what’s the least hurtful thing you could do with a terabuck burning a hole in your pocket, and lowering the cost of energy in a non-polluting way that actually would provide reliable baseload power is the least hurtful.

    But I would prefer this were never done at all.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  53. A trillion on nuclear plants would certainly restructure thinking regarding oil dependency. It could be done by bond guarantee as well, allowing recapture of the expense. Trump could pitch it as a SkyDragon defense move as well. The SkyDragon doesn’t exist but that’s no reason not to gull the CO2 fantasists.

    Rick Ballard (bca473)

  54. @Rick Ballard: And since there is tons of red tape on them, imposed by FedGov, FedGov is the only body that could actually do it.

    There will be lawsuits too. Money for lawyers! Everyone wins! Right? Right?

    In reality we will probably never earn the money back on building too many nuclear plants. But we’ll never earn it back on ANY form of stimulus.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  55. I do hope someone is whispering “Hoover Dam” in his ear right now.

    Hoover Dam was commissioned and paid for by the government, but built by private contractors who delivered it early and under budget. Not like the bridge over it they just built, which took twice as long and cost 5 times as much.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  56. Nuclear energy is fine with me but why should government be picking and choosing between energy sources? I hope Trump will pay down our debt and post a giant golden T for every Trillion in debt he pays down.

    DRJ (15874d)

  57. the failmerican government doesn’t have a good record of spending money wisely

    Yah, OK, but isn’t that going to change with Trump?

    Bill H (971e5f)

  58. Re The Wire, then Martin O’Malley (inspiration for Carcetti, as was Nancy P’s dad) was the real Luke Skywalker for them?

    I don’t know really. Don’t know enough about the city.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  59. I’d even let him put those giant golden T’s on government buildings and monuments, if he wants.

    DRJ (15874d)

  60. DRJ’s comment is spot on. Let the market decide.

    Patterico (6ff3a1)

  61. we have to wait and see

    i’m not optimistic it will change Mr. H

    but i know Mr. Trump is very very keen to cultivate an image of himself as a shrewd deal-maker

    and that introduces a new variable that’s been long missing

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  62. @DRJ:Nuclear energy is fine with me but why should government be picking and choosing between energy sources?

    Ideally they wouldn’t. But they already do. No new nuclear plant has been built because the government has put a big fat thumb on the side of the scale not letting them do that. Only government can lift that fat thumb. Only government can get out of the lawsuits.

    This is not the ideal case, it’s a least-of-evils case. New coal plants increase carbon dioxide and other pollution, new nuclear plants and dams don’t. Dams are extraordinarily cheap power and also can be used for balancing wind loads and storing all that excess from the new nuclear plants.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  63. @Patterico: Let the market decide.

    Ideally, of course, he’d be spending $0 on stimulus and instead giving out EPA waivers to anyone who wants to build new energy capacity. That would be a free-market-ish solution.

    I like DRJs idea of building him a giant gold T for every trillion of the debt he pays down. He could spend a billion on each and we’d all be better off for it.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  64. And you know what? Dams and nuclear plants don’t have to be built again every year. Teachers and social workers and nurses continue to need their salaries and in the end their pensions, dams and nuclear plants actually produce something for many decades after they are built.

    Gabriel, when was the last time we built a dam or a nuclear power plant in this country? Just because Trump was elected President doesn’t mean the resistance will be overcome. The ghost of Three Mike Island is strong with the ignorant in this country.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  65. So who built the bridge The Federal Bridge Administration? The federal government doesn’t build things. They supply the money, the graft, the corruption, the payoffs and oh yeah, the location for the bridge to be built.

    DRJ,I once read a lawyer is a person who helps you legally steal something that belongs to someone else while keeping a big chunk for himself for designing the theft. Unfortunately, that applies more often than it should.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  66. “Let the market decide.”

    As Gariel noted, get Uncle Sugar’s thumb off the scale and it would decide. A bond guarantee is insurance against progs reapplying the thumb too easily when (if?) they next hold power.

    Rick Ballard (bca473)

  67. @Bill H:Gabriel, when was the last time we built a dam or a nuclear power plant in this country? Just because Trump was elected President doesn’t mean the resistance will be overcome.

    Like the current President he has a pen and a phone. That pen and phone was used to grant all sorts of regulation waivers to all sorts of favored interests.

    Let Trump do the same for nuclear plants or dams, and even MSNBC will be clamoring for smaller government.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  68. “Example is the school of mankind, and they will learn at no other.” If you want the power of the Federal government limited, you have to get the Left to buy in. They only way they will buy in, is if the power that THEY used for what THEY wanted is now used by us for things we want.

    And since the party of limited-ish government holds Congress, if the Left allies with small-government conservatives to check Federal power, then it can actually happen, and not be so easily undone when the pendulum swings again, as it eventually will.

    In the meantime we’ll have the dams and nuclear plants.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  69. “DRJ,I once read a lawyer is a person who helps you legally steal something that belongs to someone else while keeping a big chunk for himself for designing the theft. Unfortunately, that applies more often than it should.”

    – DRJ

    A lawyer is a person who protects you from the power of the state. You’d do well to remember that for the next four, eight, 12, however many years, given that you’ve just helped elevate a nascent dictator to the most powerful executive office in human history.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  70. What’s the Left going to do? Sue? Protest? Riot in the streets? Kill cops? They’re doing that NOW.

    They already shot that bolt.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  71. The problem with this is that the highway network probably DOES need a trillion dollars worth of work. That’s what made Obumble’s promise work, politically. Then he did what politicians in both parties have been doing with highway funds for decades; piss it away on pet projects and marginally connected hobby-horses.

    IF Trump actually spends money on fixing the goddamned roads, great.

    Don’t expect he will, though.

    C. S. P. Schofield (99bd37)

  72. @Leviticus:A lawyer is a person who protects you from the power of the state.

    Leviticus, meet US Attorney Preet Bharara, who subpoenaed the identities of online commenters and slapped a gag order on the blog preventing them from telling anyone that had happened.

    U.S. Attorney Preet Bharara subpoenaed all of the identifying information we had about the authors of such comments as, “Its (sic) judges like these that should be taken out back and shot.” And, “Why waste ammunition? Wood chippers get the message across clearly. Especially if you feed them in feet first.” This last comment is a well-known Internet reference to the Coen brothers’ movie Fargo.

    Lawyers are a necessary evil, but they are economic rent. They are guns for hire, like the champions of old when there was trial by combat. Like fire, they are useful servants and terrible masters. Let’s not put a halo on them. Lawyering, like anything else, can be done honestly or dishonestly.

    In general I think it is a terrible thing for society that you need a professional to understand the law and participate in the court process. It’s a sign that our laws are too complicated to be compatible with liberty. A lawyer, these days, cannot even guarantee that you know are in compliance.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  73. Like I said between the lines above,
    I’m not thinking infrastructure like roads, either.

    What are the things with utilities, etc., that need upgrading in light of the current world situation.
    Do we want to continue to have a plethora of soft terrorist targets?
    Asymmetric warfare by a foreign government targets?
    How do we use computerization without enabling “doomsday” scenarios?

    Maybe I watched too many “24” episodes or have too active an imagination,
    or read Shapiro’s book.

    I would hate to be in any big city in a regional blackout with BLM anarchists about stirring things up, for example.

    In other words, where are the water supplies coming under the city walls that could be diverted in the middle of the night and allow the invaders’ entrance?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  74. We’ve needed lawyers to protect US from all the laws they helped write to protect US. Now we need them more than ever to free US from the lilliputian entanglements they helped create.

    crazy (d3b449)

  75. I voted for Trump because under Obama the lawyers for the state were in cahoots with Clinton to subvert the rule of law at the very highest levels of government.

    I don’t get why I see things differently from some others,
    what is more dangerous than the FBI and DOJ being corrupt and being a partisan tool,
    with the IRS, EPA, and every other federal agency under their domination?

    I don’t Trust trump a bit until he does something as an elected official that I can evaluate,
    but I did “trust” Clinton to be more of the same, selling out the US and segments of the US for her own political gain and empire,
    and that was untenable to me.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  76. you done good Mr. Dr.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  77. “Lawyers are a necessary evil, but they are economic rent. They are guns for hire, like the champions of old when there was trial by combat.”

    – Gabriel Hanna

    Do you want the State, or do you want the State of Nature? You don’t get to have it both ways. How is it that you claim “[you’re] against government building roads, [you’re] against government building hospitals, [you’re] against government building schools, [you’re] against government using eminent domain to seize land and give to railroads, you name it,” but you’re also against the hired guns that negotiate disputes in the absence of government?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  78. Let me back up: you’re not saying you’re “against” lawyers as guns for hire. I overstated that. You see them as such, and I’m fine with that and pretty much tend to agree.

    What I don’t appreciate is the double-standard applied to lawyers, when it’s perfectly socially acceptable to be a “gun for hire” when it comes to building a house or managing an investment portfolio.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  79. So I guess what I’m asking is, what did you do over the course of your career, Hoagie? I’m sure you worked your tail off, and as a proud capitalist I’m sure you were a hired gun as well.

    Lawyers do society’s dirty-work, and not just the aggressive combative stuff – the counseling of deeply traumatized, deeply confused people lost in an inscrutable system as well. Everybody likes to talk sh*t about lawyers until they need one. It’s a sin-eater concept.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  80. We have a couple of partially completed power plants up here in Washington … WPPS!!

    The union labor for these plants were paid as though they were hired every morning at the Tacoma union hall and had to be transported to the work site on the project’s clock. This meant the actual work quickly became overtime and then double time. The Democrats got this sweet deal for the unionized labor in return for quashing the Green opposition. The Art of the Deal.

    BobStewartatHome (a52abe)

  81. I have personally known good lawyers,
    and I have seen innocent people suffer for years under immoral lawfare, even to the point of losing a house.

    I have seen lawyers purposefully mislead a jury in a criminal case and get away with it.

    Yes, lawyers are people too, some good, some bad.
    One doesn’t always have a choice to simply stay away from bad lawyers, sometimes they come after you,
    and if whoever hired them has more money than you,
    you’re in trouble.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  82. In Nancy Pelosi’s district of San Francisco, in the most intensely partisan one party state, one of those Democrats who grifted his way to independent wealth decided to “protest” the election of Donald Trump by flying the Nazi swastika flag on the flagpole in front of his house.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/san-francisco-homeowner%E2%80%99s-nazi-flag-protest-of-trump-backfires/ar-AAk6IMj?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

    I don’t think “backfire” is correct. Only two complaints from neighbors who “outed themselves” as children of concentration camp survivors.

    It’s not some trophy hidden away in a box by grandpa as a memento.

    This is a brand new crisp Nazi flag, with bright garish colors.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  83. Reminds me of the Klu Klux Klan marches the Democrats organized to protest Warren Harding.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnI8SUQPB4k

    papertiger (c8116c)

  84. THe presstitutes are making a to do about city democrats protesting the election of Trump.

    Don’t buy it. These are the professional astroturfers flailing between assignments.
    Some few incidents of broken window or such, that’s due to the Clinton machine sloppiness, not putting a stop payment on the checks.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  85. @Leviticus: the counseling of deeply traumatized, deeply confused people lost in an inscrutable system as well.

    The inscrutable system that was built by and is maintained by lawyers. Which is why I characterized them as economic rent. So are police, if it come to that. A necessary evil which ideally we would structure our society to minimize the need for.

    If the law was simple enough that people could understand it there would be a lot less need for lawyers. If some doctors went around actively infecting people while other doctors made them better, medicine would be more like law.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  86. @82- Yes, lawyers are people too, some good, some bad.

    Two in my family.

    One in the private sector. The other in government. Guess which one depends most on the benefits and salary of the other?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. an infrastructure bill is not a jobs bill. You engage in a project because of what will happen after the project is done, not because of how many people you can pay along the way.

    Bwahahahaha. Which planet are you describing?

    Milhouse (40ca7b)

  88. Well, LA could use some subways.

    LA, or at least the parts of it I’ve visited, has what seems to be a perfectly good bus system, it’s just that white people seem to be blind to it. Every time I visit I get around by public transport, and I’m often the only white face on the bus. I ask people why they don’t take the bus and I get blank looks, as if they’ve never heard of the concept.

    Milhouse (40ca7b)

  89. So is this bill a bowl of honey he is using to buy off the Dems?

    Patricia (5fc097)

  90. I’m wondering how much a Clinton speech goes for these days.

    A lot less than it did last year.

    Yeah. HRC will make quite a bit of money. So will Bill.

    Why? What’s in it for the people paying all that money, now that neither of them will ever again be in a position to supply a quo for the quid? Even considering payment for past favours, by those honest enough to honor such debts, that well has surely dried up by now.

    But BHO will make a TON of cash. And I fully expect to see him as SG of the UN.

    He can’t be. Not if he wants to keep his US citizenship and the lifetime perks that come with it.

    Milhouse (40ca7b)

  91. 87. If you are referring to the private one depending on the public one’s bennies, it got me to think of this one relative of my ex-wife who held out against a school district seeking to buy his land for a parking lot. Not only did he hold out and get a higher price, his wife got a job there as a lunch lady which may seem odd, but considering he was an independent contractor made perfect sense as she was the health insurance ticket.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  92. 90. but will he get to empty the jails of (_____) and then refill with (_____) in return?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  93. We can do a lot with cheap energy. Is it an economic distortion? You bet it is.

    But the last trillion went to social workers, teachers, and state budgets, and having been spent its gone.

    Cheap energy would allow us to do a lot of things more cheaply.

    Yes. All government spending that isn’t on protecting people from crime and violence is bad, but some is worse than others. If we can get something out of it, then it’s objectively better than if we don’t. And sometimes we can even come out ahead, if you don’t count the opportunity cost of that money not having been available for something even more profitable. I suspect that would be the case with your proposal. Also more funding for basic science; again, ideally it shouldn’t be funded by government at all, but of all government spending it provides the best return so it’s the least wasteful.

    Milhouse (40ca7b)

  94. Gabriel, when was the last time we built a dam or a nuclear power plant in this country? Just because Trump was elected President doesn’t mean the resistance will be overcome. The ghost of Three Mike Island is strong with the ignorant in this country.

    I think that’s the point. With a determined president and congress the opposition won’t matter. Just build them anyway. If there’s a legal challenge, don’t even bother defending it, just preemptively amend the statute being cited, whatever it is; poof goes the lawsuit.

    Milhouse (40ca7b)

  95. Me: “So who are the stickers in this confidence game?”

    Every Trumping: *jumps up* “Me!!Me!!Me!!”

    SPQR (996e10)

  96. Stickers=suckers

    SPQR (996e10)

  97. @Milhouse:f there’s a legal challenge, don’t even bother defending it, just preemptively amend the statute being cited, whatever it is; poof goes the lawsuit.

    No better way to teach the lesson: limit the power of government in case you get someone in you don’t like.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  98. LA, or at least the parts of it I’ve visited, has what seems to be a perfectly good bus system, it’s just that white people seem to be blind to it. Every time I visit I get around by public transport, and I’m often the only white face on the bus. I ask people why they don’t take the bus and I get blank looks, as if they’ve never heard of the concept.

    Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/10/2016 @ 11:15 am

    When you live in Pasadena and work in Whittier, that bus becomes a nightmare. Being white on that bus has nothing to do with it. Travel times of 2-3 hours one way on top of an 8-10 or 12 hour day, not counting any errands you may need to complete, do. When escape is possible, you do it. A basic car in Los Angeles is expensive, and traffic can be horrendous, but it is still better in many cases than the bus or the LA Metro system, which only goes to fixed destinations.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  99. Kevin, I see you’re a fan too!

    Patricia–

    The wife and I just watched it all over again in 1080p. It was even better! Amazon Prime.

    Kevin M (c133f6)

  100. A trillion on nuclear plants would certainly restructure thinking regarding oil dependency.

    And perhaps make desalinization possible.

    Kevin M (c133f6)

  101. LA, or at least the parts of it I’ve visited, has what seems to be a perfectly good bus system, it’s just that white people seem to be blind to it. Every time I visit I get around by public transport, and I’m often the only white face on the bus. I ask people why they don’t take the bus and I get blank looks, as if they’ve never heard of the concept.

    My experience is that the bus system is WAY too complicated to use casually. Further, buses are caught in the same traffic. Rail, and particularly subways, is complementary rather than competing. Cars, in a city you know, are generally better than busses. Rail, though. if it serves enough areas, can get people out of cars.

    I had to go to downtown LA yesterday. Driving there I would have had to park my car for hour$ and fight traffic both ways. Instead I took the train, parking at a station a few miles from my house (for free).

    Kevin M (c133f6)

  102. London has a good subway system and uses buses largely to complement it, to to compete. Centered on every station (or a set of local stations) are local circulating buses to deal with the last mile.

    Kevin M (c133f6)

  103. *NOT to compete

    Kevin M (c133f6)

  104. Toyota got its “in” into this country on being the basic car for many in SoCal from the 60s onward, buoyed by the oil crises of 73 and 79. Not at all uncommon to see 25-30 year old Toyota Corollas still doing duty.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)


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