Patterico's Pontifications

There is no excuse. You said you would do it.

Do it.

Patterico (115b1f) — 11/9/2016 @ 12:20 am

It’s time to hold Donald Trump to every promise he made.

Let’s start with this one.

Repeal ObamaCare.

Patterico (115b1f) — 11/9/2016 @ 12:21 am

Go to bed, buddy. 🙂

Things could have been way worse than they were, and tomorrow’s work is waiting. 🙂

Gabriel Hanna (c791b9) — 11/9/2016 @ 12:26 am

That’s the difference: the part of America that has more important work than politics, can’t stay up all night talking politics, that’s who beat Hillary.

You got four years to hold his feet to the fire.

Gabriel Hanna (c791b9) — 11/9/2016 @ 12:28 am

And replace it with a genuinely free market.

There will be rules, there are always rules.

John McCain’s plan of a national market with ONE pool. No employer plans, no government plans, no exclusions, no mandatory coverages. Like everyone worked of a company that offered all the plans.

Companies could subsidize, or not. Government might subsidize the poor in some way. But the plans would be offered by the free market, within some basic rules.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/9/2016 @ 12:34 am

As for Trump, I will give him “one free grope.” Maybe he’ll become a better man than he seems.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/9/2016 @ 12:35 am

Pffft. We all have more important work than this, Gabriel. You do. I assume you know I do.

I see the fire and I see the feet. With those tiny little toes. Here comes the fire, Donny. Get ready, buddy.

Good night! Pleasant dreams, con artist!

Patterico (115b1f) — 11/9/2016 @ 12:36 am

Maybe he’ll become a better man than he seems.

Every 70-year-old has some growing to do.

Patterico (115b1f) — 11/9/2016 @ 12:37 am

Does he have to repeal the ACA before the inauguration? Might be a bit difficult.

Estarcarus (9f79f5) — 11/9/2016 @ 1:09 am

I’d also like to see a national law protecting the RKBA, a civil right that some states deny their citizens or put such cramped restrictions on as to make it meaningless.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/9/2016 @ 1:21 am

Patterico, for a man who said he didn’t care who won, you seem to care who won.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/9/2016 @ 1:23 am

“Hold Trump to his promises”. What a laugh. You took Hillary’s side in this, he owes your side of this contest not one goddam thing. The people who voted for him will decide what he owes us or doesn’t.

Mr Black (7c41e5) — 11/9/2016 @ 1:23 am

As with Supreme Court justices, the key is to get his supporters to press him.

Here, however, the President can’t just repeal the ACA. But Congress has consistently passed bills to this effect (at least in the House). And, of course, no Republicans voted for the bill when it first came up, only Dems.

SO, ideally, one can imagine the GOP Congress (House and Senate) voting to repeal, only this time, it doesn’t need to be a veto-proof majority, just a majority. (Getting it past cloture’s a separate issue, but there are a LOT of Dems who are probably worried now, and 2018 runs against them.) At that point, the pressure should be on Trump to sign said repeal.

Lurking Observer (61cd22) — 11/9/2016 @ 1:43 am

poor food stamp his legacy just went poof

loser.

happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/9/2016 @ 4:23 am

The republicans only voted to repeal the aca because they knew they had no chance of getting it through. You watch now they will not do it.

Gil (0bf8a1) — 11/9/2016 @ 5:00 am

Do It Now!

Patricia (5fc097) — 11/9/2016 @ 5:22 am

“Hold Trump to his promises”. What a laugh. You took Hillary’s side in this, he owes your side of this contest not one goddam thing. The people who voted for him will decide what he owes us or doesn’t.

I’m sure that’s how he feels, because he’s a con man. And by expressing that view yourself you expose yourself as equally dishonest, a person after his heart.

He owes the entire country, regardless of who voted for him, to keep those of his promises that are good for it, and to break those that aren’t.

Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/9/2016 @ 5:22 am

“Hold Trump to his promises”. What a laugh. You took Hillary’s side in this, he owes your side of this contest not one goddam thing. The people who voted for him will decide what he owes us or doesn’t.

Mr Black (7c41e5) — 11/9/2016 @ 1:23 am

So you’ve now replaced those you hated, the elite and political class, with yourselves? You’re now our betters? Do you not realize how tone deaf you appear right now? Do you not realize that this attitude is one of the reasons people were #NeverTrump in the first place? Of course not. As our current President once expressed, you won. I’m willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt and work with him as long as he works towards supporting Liberty and Individualism, but if he heads down your path of authoritative rule and allows his follows to embrace their own Night of the Long Knives then I’ll oppose him and you with every breath I have.

The election didn’t disprove the #NeverTrump movement, only Trump can do that, and I pray each day that he does.

Sean (41ed1e) — 11/9/2016 @ 6:26 am

Ideally Ryan should be hard at work on a bill to pass once Obamacare gets repealed, right?

Pinandpuller (dd360c) — 11/9/2016 @ 6:35 am

I can’t find where I made the comment, but yesterday I had very little to say except “An upset would be nice. I’ll do my bit.” Always trust inchoate wishes from SarahW. 🙂

I have no expectations of Trump, and never did, it may seem glib for the circumstance, but I will have fun with it as far as possible and enjoy the fact that Hilary can’t get her mitts on the first amendment. Also I will enjoy the rediscovery of the importance of limits on executive power.

SarahW (3164f0) — 11/9/2016 @ 6:41 am

Repealing 0bamacare is a lot more complicated than it was originally. You can’t just repeal it and be done, and expect things to go back to how they used to be, because the system that existed before 0bamacare no longer exists. 0bamacare broke it, and it’s not coming back. (Not that it was a good system, but it was something.) So any repeal has to include a replacement which needs to be worked out, so it can’t be done immediately.

But there are things that Trump can do at 12:01 on 20-Jan, in his inauguration speech. Such as, “Before I get on with the fancy rhetoric, a few announcements: All DACA and DAPA cards are now canceled; the programs no longer exist, and all federal employees are instructed to treat card holders exactly the same as any other person here illegally. If you can’t do that, you’re fired.

To all schools and universities that have received strange “guidance” from the Education Department on Title 9, forget it. Those “Dear Colleague” letters are no longer operative, and Title 9 means exactly what it says. “Sex” means biological sex, not gender identity, and students accused of serious offenses are entitled to natural justice. To anyone in DOE who doesn’t get that message, you’re fired.

And to the staff at the US consulate in Western Jerusalem, congratulations, you’re now the embassy; to the staff at the embassy in Tel Aviv, you’re now a consulate. Have fun.”

Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/9/2016 @ 6:46 am

Ideally Ryan should be hard at work on a bill to pass once Obamacare gets repealed, right?

What do you mean by “once it gets repealed”? The replacement has to be in the same bill that repeals it. You can’t just repeal it and replace it with nothing, because there’s nothing to go back to.

Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/9/2016 @ 6:48 am

“And replace it with a genuinely free market.” I said it before, I’ll say it again: there are no “free-market” solutions to healthcare costs. Health care is NOT a commodity. It has price-inelasticity of demand. A sick person will pay everything he has to get well. You get hit by a bus, you don’t tell the ambulance driver to take you to the cheapest hospital in town. “Solutions” like insurance and subsidies and prevention only drive up the costs faster. Preventive medicine makes you live longer, therefore you incur MORE costs over a longer life.

This is the human condition. Some problems are insoluble. Go ahead and repeal Ocare, but don’t expect anything better.

gp (0c542c) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:01 am

“And replace it with a genuinely free market.” I said it before, I’ll say it again: there are no “free-market” solutions to healthcare costs. Health care is NOT a commodity. It has price-inelasticity of demand. A sick person will pay everything he has to get well. You get hit by a bus, you don’t tell the ambulance driver to take you to the cheapest hospital in town. “Solutions” like insurance and subsidies and prevention only drive up the costs faster. Preventive medicine makes you live longer, therefore you incur MORE costs over a longer life.

This is the human condition. Some problems are insoluble. Go ahead and repeal Ocare, but don’t expect anything better.

gp (0c542c) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:01 am

On the economics you’re correct, but your sentiment that there can’t be a better solution you’re way off base. Like you said, has price0inelasticity, however the supply of individuals in any insurance pool drives down the overall cost due to lower risk to the policy. Obamacare tried to mandate enrollment to artificially create a large pool, but at the same time required ridiculous standards in coverages for all which negated and in most cases destroyed any cost saving measures of high enrollment. We need to get back to allowing insurance markets freely compete across all 50 states for customers while removing burdens and ridiculous coverage standards so companies can create flexible plans that better suit consumer’s needs. That would be a far better starting point than Obamacare and what we had previously.

Sean (41ed1e) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:09 am

So it’s back to paying for ER visits anyway, cherry picking, and being refused coverage for being sick – “pre-existing conditions”. Whoohoo! Let’s party!

Tillman (a95660) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:28 am

13… He made those promises to YOU as well.
Don’t you intend to hold him to them?

Evan3457 (f518ce) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:29 am

While it’s true that the market for medical care is less price elastic than many others, that doesn’t mean it’s inelastic. On the contrary, when people have to pay for their own medical care, whether through lack of insurance or high deductibles, they do in fact show considerable price sensitivity, sometimes even to a degree that is lamentable. The biggest factor in the inflation of medical prices has been the fact that governments have long been paying for most of it.

Further, even if it were completely inelastic, that would be no reason not to have a free market. Free markets are not only generally beneficial, they’re morally right even in those rare occasions when there is true market failure. (Also bear in mind that while market failure is a real thing that sometimes happens, government failure happens several orders of magnitude more often, so proposing regulation as a solution to market failure is a really stupid idea.)

But above all you seem to have forgotten that health insurance is not medical care. It’s a financial product that people use to help ease the burden of medical care, and the market for it is almost as elastic as any other market.

Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:32 am

Tillman, would you expect a fire insurance company to insure a house after it’s caught fire?

Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:32 am

So it’s back to paying for ER visits anyway, cherry picking, and being refused coverage for being sick – “pre-existing conditions”. Whoohoo! Let’s party!

Tillman (a95660) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:28 am

Having to pay for services rendered, oh the humanity! As far as cherry picking goes, the government Death Panels are a far worse option than working with a hospital on a payment schedule. I paid for both of our kid’s deliveries by working with the hospital since I was self employed at the time. It’s amazing what you can accomplish if you don’t start with the premise that somebody else needs to pay for your care.

Sean (41ed1e) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:33 am

So it’s back to paying for ER visits anyway, cherry picking, and being refused coverage for being sick – “pre-existing conditions”. Whoohoo! Let’s party!

I actually have to deal with the fallout from ObamaCare, having lost and having to replace our insurance every year since it started. Guess what? People with pre-existing conditions are still being penalized. They’ve just found new ways to deny us.

DRJ (15874d) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:37 am

#28 So, just let folks die in the street Milhouse? How humane.

Tillman (a95660) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:39 am

Emergency health services were available before and continue to be available for all, and it’s still all that some have because government healthcare is so horrible. Have you had experience with Medicaid? It specializes in telling people No.

DRJ (15874d) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:44 am

Tillman, if you’re concerned with people dying in the streets, help them. Out of your pocket, and the pockets of those who share your concern. If the choice is between letting folk die in the streets and robbing passersby to prevent it, then yes, let folk die in the streets. Let them die by the dozens and the hundreds, until passersby can’t stand it any longer and voluntarily donate what is necessary to prevent it. That is the only moral answer.

But thankfully that is not the choice we face, because we are not Sodom, we have never allowed people to die in the streets if we were able to prevent it, and we’re not likely to start now. The truly needy have always been taken care of, and will continue to be, regardless of what the government does.

Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:46 am

You’re partying has made you sick, Tillman.

Colonel Haiku (a7e08c) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:50 am

No.

#1. Crush ISIS.

#2. Appoint a Special Prosecutor to hound that b-tch into the dog house.

#3. Lunch.

#4. Obamacare.

DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:51 am

31.#28 So, just let folks die in the street Milhouse? How humane.

How about we send them to Tillman’s house?

Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 11/9/2016 @ 7:51 am

DCSCA, #5 drop a ton of cinder block into the Sonoran Desert, the closer to Flake and McCain the better.

urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 11/9/2016 @ 8:01 am

Milhouse, I’ve noticed many times how people like Tillman who are proponents of government controlled and allocated health insurance always start with the “people dying in the streets” phony argument. Like the ONLY choice is full out government control of the industry or death. There is no in between, no compromise, no other solution.

Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 11/9/2016 @ 8:36 am

Hoagie, you’ve got a point. Tillman makes his argument in this fashion out of necessity. The only thing worse than his plan is dying in the streets, and so he employs that as the alternative. He probably thinks ObamaCare is a big success.

Last night demonstrated the wisdom of that old saying that you can only fool all of the people some of the time. After eight years of being fooled, Americans decided it was time for a change. Tillman, alas, appears to be in that subcategory who can be fooled all of the time.

BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 11/9/2016 @ 8:57 am

The “no one shops when hit by a bus” is a fallacy because you can buy insurance for that eventuality, and since it is rare it will be cheap.

For contingent emergencies that no one can forsee, that’s what insurance is FOR. It’s not for having someone else pay your forseeable expenses. That’s when it gets expensive, when it’s a third-party payment system in disguise.

As for pre-existing conditions, the free-market solution for that would be to buy insurance against that contingency when you are healthy. If your house burns down you can’t buy a policy that will replace it. You have to buy it before it burns down.

If some people struggle with that I guess you could have the government buy the contingency insurance for them.

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/9/2016 @ 9:08 am

“We need to get back to allowing insurance markets freely compete across all 50 states for customers” When did medical insurance companies ever “compete” for customers? They turn away many of their potential customers because of pre-existing conditions. How can overall costs be lower when healthcare dollars have to pay both insurance middlemen and doctors?

Doctors, treating insured patients, simply increase their fees to absorb the extra boon, and slam their doors in the faces of the uninsured. Call a doctors office for an appt, the very first question they ask is “are you insured?” If you say no, they laugh and hang-up on you.

This is especially critical in this era of the “gig economy,” where most jobs provide neither insurance nor stability.

gp (0c542c) — 11/9/2016 @ 9:53 am

@gp:How can overall costs be lower when healthcare dollars have to pay both insurance middlemen and doctors?

Because the middlemen negotiate lower prices. Same way Costco and Wal-Mart save people money. Why is this hard?

Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/9/2016 @ 10:55 am

Same mentality that thinks retailers are useless parasites who add to the cost of groceries.

Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/9/2016 @ 11:06 am

As for pre-existing conditions, the free-market solution for that would be to buy insurance against that contingency when you are healthy. If your house burns down you can’t buy a policy that will replace it. You have to buy it before it burns down.

The thing is that there are always people who don’t insure their homes, preferring to save the premium and gambling that there won’t be a fire this year. Every so often one of them loses their home. That’s the equivalent of “dying in the street”. and the government response to such an occurrence should be “welcome to the homeless; you chose not to buy insurance when you could, now you will suffer the consequences, including at least the theoretical possibility of freezing to death”.

Of course since none of us want the person to actually freeze to death, or die in the street, we (as individuals) will set up private institutions to rescue people from that fate, making it clear that this is charity for which they should be grateful, not something they are owed.

Milhouse (40ca7b) — 11/9/2016 @ 11:16 am

“Put an elephant in a refrigerator.”

That’s easy for a general to say. But, you are the sergeant who has to break that command down into something the soldiers assigned to him for this project can understand and do. For example, he has to find an elephant, get measurements, build a working refrigerator large enough for the elephant, test it, bring the elephant to the refrigerator so it can be installed. But each of those steps has many steps inherent to its simple statement.

So let’s appoint you as the sergeant in charge of making it happen for “Repeal Obamacare”. The goal is to do this without inciting a revolution. Lots of little niggles need to be solved. One of the first things needed is convincing half the county that its mere existence does not give it a right to the sweat of my brow and the contents of my pocketbook. Another is “when does the law become effective?” That is to say, “How does it affect the insurance contracts between millions of clients and a lamentable few insurance companies?” One might ask whether any compensation is needed anywhere for the losses on the part of the insured and the insurance companies.

I would be a LOT more impressed if I saw you trying to map out a solution. The more people who try and succeed gaining an ear in Washington, DC (92.8 Hillary) the more likely we shall see a satisfactory transition back to sanity.

I really REALLY want to see Obamacare gone. But, I am not uncaring or reckless enough to not give a damn about collateral damage despite being sick to the death of other people’s hands delving into my purse. This is simply the criticism an engineer feeds to overly glib lawyers. So take it as you will. It’d be classy of you to work at implementing the solution.

{^_^}

JDow (144a11) — 11/9/2016 @ 8:40 pm

11/9/2016

Repeal ObamaCare

45 Responses to “Repeal ObamaCare”

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