Patterico's Pontifications

10/12/2016

TrumpenGropeGate: Four Women Say Trump Groped or Inappropriately Touched Them

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:05 pm



Jessica Leeds and Rachel Crooks.

According to Ms. Leeds, Mr. Trump grabbed her breasts and tried to put his hand up her skirt.

“He was like an octopus,” she said. “His hands were everywhere.”

She fled to the back of the plane. “It was an assault,” she said.

Ms. Leeds has told the story to at least four people close to her, who also spoke with The New York Times.

. . . .

They shook hands, but Mr. Trump would not let go, [Crooks] said. Instead, he began kissing her cheeks. Then, she said, he “kissed me directly on the mouth.”

It didn’t feel like an accident, she said. It felt like a violation.

Cassandra Searles.

“He probably doesn’t want me telling the story about that time he continually grabbed my ass and invited me to his hotel room.”

Mindy McGillvray.

“‘Donald just grabbed my ass!’ . . . This was a pretty good nudge. More of a grab. . It was pretty close to the center of my butt.”

I’m sure that’s the end of it. (That would be sarcasm.) If you lived through the California recall election and remember Ahh-nold and Gropegate, this may sound familiar.

Get to work calling them liars, Trumpers.

Also, make sure to remind us that Bill Clinton sexually assaulted women — and called them liars.

350 Responses to “TrumpenGropeGate: Four Women Say Trump Groped or Inappropriately Touched Them”

  1. If you believe the Clinton accusers you have to take the longevity and consistency of their charges under consideration. The Trump accusers are new on the scene, and at first glance seem like their accusations are politically expedient. If they continue to tell the same story over the next 16 to 24 years, then maybe, unlike a Democrat, I’ll start to believe them.

    steveg (5508fb)

  2. Some have been telling the same story to confidantes for quite some time.

    But let’s not pretend the facts or evidence matter to either partisan side. it’s insulting to the intelligence of all of us.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  3. Also, make sure to remind us that Bill Clinton sexually assaulted women — and called them liars.

    =yawn= Don’t have to. Jefferson banged the slaves he owned.

    “Jefferson, kindly introduce me to your wife… She is your wife, isn’t she?” John Adams [Wiilliam Daniels] ‘1776’ – 1972

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  4. Buzzericotastic!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  5. that’s actually not true, man of mystery, but why not indulge william callender’s slanders,

    narciso (d1f714)

  6. I remember in the 90s, when all sorts of Democrats and women’s organizations rallied behind Bill Clinton when he was accused of groping Kathleen Willey and raping Juanita Broadrrick. I shook my head, thinking they had sold their souls just to retain power. And a lot of Republicans excoriated them for it. Now I’m seeing Republicans do the very same thing.

    Power and politics are more important than ethics and character.

    Chuck Bartowski (211c17)

  7. this what the #never emmer’s wrought,

    http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/10/12/gov-dayton-affordable-care-act/

    narciso (d1f714)

  8. BARACK OBAMA WAGGLED HIS ERECT SOCIAL JUSTICE PENIS IN MY FACE AND I WAS TRIGGERED TO MAKE UNWISE PURCHASES ON AMAZON PRIME

    is that wrong?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. You know, I’m starting to believe the Epstein girl who’s suing Trump. http://www.snopes.com/2016/06/23/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit/

    And I may owe Leviticus an apple-gy.

    nk (dbc370)

  10. @5.Except it is.

    Damn that DNA.

    “Mustang Sally” – Wilson Pickett, 1967

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  11. “he kissed me directly on the mouth”

    this is a tell-tale of a phony social justice skank what just wants to do the pig all up in it, when they make a bizarre distinction between “kissing me” and “kissing me directly on the mouth”

    not so much worried about Mr. Trump but a lot of y’all are naive and delicate

    i can help you

    call me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  12. I’m not selling my soul,for a grab ass. I’m saying Hillary won’t have the same checks on her power and will use it to shut you up, among other things.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  13. update from earlier,

    https://twitter.com/AmichaiStein1/status/786307456175603712

    why does that town sound familiar,

    narciso (d1f714)

  14. ikes!

    why did these nasty sluts leave their safe places to begin with? (puppies and play-doh :))

    was it cause of zombies?

    that would be excusable

    but why didn’t they wear their burkas?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. ah this was why,

    During World War II, Chemnitz contained factories that produced military hardware and a Flossenbürg forced labor subcamp (500 female inmates) for Astra-Werke AG.[2] The oil refinery was a target for bombers during the Oil Campaign of World War II, and Operation Thunderclap attacks included the following raids:

    and twitter has locked out #okeefe, and placed a adult advisory on prager university,

    narciso (d1f714)

  16. Patterico, I suggest you place quotes of these fools’ reactions to the movie director beside their reactions to the trust fund baby running for President. ‘Twould be interesting to see how their views change based on their idolatry status.

    John Hitchcock (d19b78)

  17. 12.”I’m not selling my soul, for a grab ass.”

    What Fiddie/Faddle. But it has a good ring to it. Sort of like ‘Ask not, what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country.’

    “Happy BIRTHday, tooooooo you… ” – ‘the late Marilyn Monroe’ singing to JFK, 1962

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  18. Buzzericotastic!

    None of these pieces is from Buzzfeed. They are from the New York Times, Palm Beach Post, and Yahoo.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  19. All a smokescreen to obscure the fact that most of the Democrats With Bylines – aka news media – will continue to refuse to report on the plethora of damaging factual information – not speculation, mind you – on Hillary Clinton. I’ll give a flip when I start reading , watching, hearing fair, even-handed and equitable news coverage.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. You miss my point.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  21. triple crown of credibility there

    i need to think on this

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  22. Where are you reading this plethora of damaging factual information? Can you toss a brother a couple of links?

    Patterico (bcf524)

  23. You miss my point.

    OK, what is your point?

    Patterico (bcf524)

  24. And what a trio of even-handed, fair-minded purveyors of teh news!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  25. Also I’m not a women’s rights organization charged with upholding safer spaces or what not for women. I’m a citizen charged with acting to avoid governmental tyranny and blocking the abuse of powers of office.

    Trump is awful, no joke. But she’s worse. He’s a vulgar man and a wolf. But he isn’t evil, unless they are saving “put some ice on it” for last.

    One more reminder, she wants control of speech on the internet. She wants control of political speech in particular.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  26. mike barbaro of the luxurious speedboat, yahoo who’s political director is david chelian, need I revisit his case, and palm beach post, gives gator’s skin rash,

    https://twitter.com/mtracey/status/786217317881507841

    narciso (d1f714)

  27. If your point is that I’m not working overtime to play the partisan against Hillary Clinton, you’re right. I feel no motivation to do that.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  28. And what a trio of even-handed, fair-minded purveyors of teh news!

    I think you should disregard everything they say, Colonel. Everything.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  29. One more reminder, Trump wants control of speech on the internet. Trump wants control of political speech in particular.

    Truth.

    John Hitchcock (d19b78)

  30. Well, mg, one is a lawsuit filed in court under some kind of oath or affirmation, and the other is ….?

    nk (dbc370)

  31. I’ve already posted links. I find them in a lot of other places.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  32. … meanwhile, back at the ranch, the descendants of Saul Alinsky are laughing.
    Are so are the top brass of ISIS.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  33. I find them about as credible as you find the LAT.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  34. about terrorists, who can issue fatwas and plan operations 24/7 whereas the twitter block committee say hohum,

    narciso (d1f714)

  35. “Trump is awful, no joke. But she’s worse. He’s a vulgar man and a wolf. But he isn’t evil, unless they are saving “put some ice on it” for last.

    One more reminder, she wants control of speech on the internet. She wants control of political speech in particular.”

    Well said. Please help me understand what normally lucid don’t understand about that.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. Evan McMullin, to throw the race to the House. The vote is by state delegation, not per member.

    nk (dbc370)

  37. Normally lucid people

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. was the times ever sanctioned for their eiseman slander against maverick,?

    narciso (d1f714)

  39. Every second a new story appears. And Bill has a black son. What a country. Cheers.

    mg (31009b)

  40. mcguffin, reminds me one of bill buckley’s lines back in the 50s, ‘it had all the hallmarks of a cia operation, they missed the target, and all the perpetrators were killed’

    narciso (d1f714)

  41. Black lives matter
    IRS audits
    Iran
    Treatment of Netanyahu and other friends and allies
    Sanctuary cities
    Obamacare road to single payer
    Open borders
    Etc, etc,

    Now let’s hear some more about boorish behavior.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  42. Alex Jones has been probed by aliens too many times.

    nk (dbc370)

  43. occasionally it did work against trujillo, and lumumba, but mostly because of the contractors,

    http://www.newsbusters.org/people-organizations/michael-barbaro

    narciso (d1f714)

  44. I’ve already posted links. I find them in a lot of other places.

    What places, specifically?

    Patterico (4d2a8d)

  45. I noted even al ghuardian saw that lubow was a dodgy character,

    narciso (d1f714)

  46. “And so the Democrats decided that they’d manipulate the national conversation toward sex, because they knew that the puritanical Republicans would abandon conversations about ISIS, Obamacare, Syrian refugees, Iran, Russia, and China if only they had an excuse to do so. And now they have one.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  47. “Trump is awful, no joke. But she’s worse. He’s a vulgar man and a wolf. But he isn’t evil, unless they are saving “put some ice on it” for last.

    One more reminder, she wants control of speech on the internet. She wants control of political speech in particular.”

    Well said. Please help me understand [why] normally lucid [people] don’t understand about that.

    You’re willing to put up with an “awful”, “vulgar” “wolf” in order to stop your enemy. How much do we need to support you so that you won’t call us enemies?
    We’re actually losing the assurance that Hillary will persecute us more than Trump.

    CayleyGraph (353727)

  48. The last link you posted on this blog, Colonel, was from CBS News. Home of Rathergate. So I can safely ignore the content of it and just scream Rathergate over and over. Mmmm that’s good arguin’.

    Patterico (4d2a8d)

  49. Records show that Mcgillvray has been convicted of two felonies: has had numerous drug and alcohol incidents and was charged with child endangerment

    Allison (03e7d2)

  50. AoS, instapundit, powerline, American digest, drudge, American Spectator, the American Interest…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  51. Black lives matter
    IRS audits
    Iran
    Treatment of Netanyahu and other friends and allies
    Sanctuary cities
    Obamacare road to single payer
    Open borders
    Etc, etc,

    Trump will bring us single payer faster than Hillary. IRS audits? We’ll get that from both of them. On the other stuff? I don’t believe what he says about anything. A-ny-thing. I do know that if we can hold onto Congres they’ll fight her more than him.

    Patterico (4d2a8d)

  52. The last one… To their credit, they did. Hey, it’s your blog. And it’s my opinion.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  53. You know best, chief. I hope your dreams all comes true for you.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  54. Clinton’s defenders defended his actions, called Ken Starr all kinds of names and trashed his victims.
    Trump’s defenders say….or there’s Hillary.
    And some folks recall how conveeeeenient it was that Anita Hill showed up, just in time.

    Richard Aubrey (472a6f)

  55. AoS, instapundit, powerline, American digest, drudge, American Spectator, the American Interest…

    That’s why I’d like to see the links. If I trace what they are discussing back to its source, will I find Ace interviewing top officials and reporting his findings directly? Will I find Instapundit on site with original reporting? Or will I find them discussing things they saw in the news media? If I had the links in front of me, I could see.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  56. And my work here are dun, lol.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  57. Buh buh buh Aceofspades said he was just talkin’ dirty. He didn’t really grope women sexually without permission because he thought he was rich enough to get away with it, right? Oh wait, I guess that’s what he was saying he did so it makes sense now.

    Remember, no matter how awful Trump is, some cannot compute that it’s possible to be worse than Hillary, because they are Republicans and she is the democrat nominee for president. Automatically, this is the most important election ever, every year, and the democrat will end the world instantly if she is elected. Therefore Trump is better as a law of nature, even if he sexually assaulted people. Hillary’s husband was accused of sexual assault, so that’s worse than Trump bragging about sexual assault and we should vote Trump.

    And for all that partisanship, Trump hates you republicans more than anything. He actually loves the Clinton family and is close to them. The Cruz family gets smeared and Bush was the worst president in American history according to Trump. Trump bashes the GOP leadership and many of her voters, but he will always have a warm spot in his heart for the Clinton family.

    Everyone commenting here is smart enough to not be a sucker about Trump. It’s time to think outside the box and the GOP needs to ditch Trump.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  58. You know best, chief. I hope your dreams all comes true for you.

    You know, it’s funny, “chief” — I’m not the one who acts like he knows best. The one going around criticizing people for his point of view here seems to be you, not me. Think about it.

    I simply give my opinion, day after day, and day after day you tell me I’m wrong and doing the wrong thing and steering us into disaster.

    Who knows best? Who pretends to know best?

    “Chief”?

    Patterico (bcf524)

  59. And my work here are dun, lol.

    You might be happier if you took a breather until after the election on November 28.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  60. I hope your dreams all comes true for you.

    There are no dreams for someone like me in this scenario. It’s Nightmare A or Nightmare B.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  61. I guess that’s a key difference. You seem to believe these MSM sources. I’ve found them to lack an inclination, much less an interest, in reporting news without a spin or obvious slant.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  62. It’s time to think outside the box and the GOP needs to ditch Trump.

    Ain’t happening. The least worst outcome is probably Clinton with GOP in charge of both houses, but Trump is making the latter seem less likely every day. I shudder to think what leftist shit the GOP will pass if Trump wins.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  63. You want more of the same, well, you’ll get it… Guaranteed. For 8 more years. You’re good with that? Best wishes.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  64. Here’s the thing:

    Hillary gets 270+: guaranteed Hillary administration

    Hillary gets 270 or less: possibly thrown into the House, which gets to choose among those who had the most votes, not necessarily Trump.

    If #NeverTrump really is #NeverHillary to the same extent, they would start doing the work the media won’t do, and start talking about Hillary Clinton instead of doing the work the media wants them to do on Trump.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  65. I guess that’s a key difference. You seem to believe these MSM sources.

    I wrote a different post here than at RedState, because here I am covering all three groping stories and there I had to split the duties with two other people. But here is from my post there on the Palm Beach woman:

    I won’t immediately assume the stories are true or false. Let’s see how they shake out.

    But I know this: the Trumpers will immediately call them all liars out of one side of their mouths, without looking at any of the evidence — while, out of the other side of their mouths, they will continually bring up how Bill Clinton assaulted women . . . and called them liars.

    Don’t look for consistency or morality in their defenses. Absolute Trumpism corrupts absolutely.

    For Trumpers, failure to reflexively attack anything that hurts Trump = belief in that thing.

    But that’s not what I have said.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  66. The place I have enjoyed coming to for years is not what it once was. But that’s my issue to deal with.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  67. “Hillary gets 270 or less”

    should be “less than 270”

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  68. don’t know gabriel, they seem to be steering toward the rocks,

    http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/5minute_arguments/3_thoughts_in_3_pictures.php

    narciso (d1f714)

  69. You want more of the same, well, you’ll get it… Guaranteed. For 8 more years. You’re good with that? Best wishes.

    I’m good with that?

    Since I have never said that, you go GET that strawman. GET IT! RIP IT UP!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  70. Ain’t happening. The least worst outcome is probably Clinton with GOP in charge of both houses, but Trump is making the latter seem less likely every day. I shudder to think what leftist shit the GOP will pass if Trump wins.

    Patterico

    Of course the GOP won’t ditch him, but they should.

    You’re damn right that the GOP run by Trump leads to a much more left wing America than Hillary vs a GOP with a purpose. Trump is a power grabber, with a government program for every issue and no party to fight him because not only would they be working for the man, but Trump has made it very clear that he would purge the GOP of his naysayers. Trump’s muse is Putin.

    The status quo sucks, and that’s represented by Hillary, but there are worse things this country could go through.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  71. The place I have enjoyed coming to for years is not what it once was. But that’s my issue to deal with.

    Funny. I support the same things I always did. Maybe you have changed. Maybe supporting a shit candidate has changed you. I don’t know. You’re certainly as uncharitable as I have ever seen you, twisting my words because you WANT me to love love love Hillary because it allows you to more easily justify flouncing.

    You want to flounce, FLOUNCE. But don’t malign me to make yourself feel better about it.

    I’m the same person I always was.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  72. “THINK OF TWITTER AS A DEMOCRATIC PARTY PROPAGANDA SHOP AND YOU WON’T GO FAR WRONG: James O’Keefe Blocked From His Twitter Account for Videos About Electoral Corruption.

    The entire apparat is jettisoning even the pretense of standards to drag Hillary across the finish line. But as President Obama said, don’t think we aren’t keeping score, bro.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/246222/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  73. @Patterico: 270+, guaranteed Hillary. < 270, not necessarily Trump. It's not true that the two choices are a matter of indifference.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  74. because it didn’t matter that effendi khan, was a salafi apology, that alicia machado is an ungrateful gal, they are meant to be used and disposed off,

    narciso (d1f714)

  75. No, Megyn Kelly did not call Juanita Broaddrick a liar. The American Thinker headline clickbait is the liar. Megyn Kelly questioned Kellyanne Conway about the affidavit Juanita Broaddrick signed (and she did sign it) denying Bill Clinton raped her.

    You know … you guys sneer at Patterico’s MSM sources and then you come with Alex Jones, Drudge, Gateway Pundit and American Thinker.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. I used to come here for stories like that.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  77. If you truly can’t deal with someone who despises Trump, this really isn’t the place for you, Haiku.

    I’d be happy to have you stay and make your points, and I can even deal with the criticism. It’s the twisting of my words that pisses me off.

    I HATE HILLARY CLINTON. Stop pretending I don’t. You’re making that up, to feel better about yourself and about the way you treat me.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  78. Just like Hillary has Warren Buffet on her side and Trump has Putin’s crony threatening nuclear war if we don’t elect Trump. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-russian-trump-idUSKCN12C28Q?il=0

    nk (dbc370)

  79. @Patterico:I HATE HILLARY CLINTON.

    Excellent! You can help prevent her getting the 270+ she needs, throwing the election into the House, which has a chance of not choosing Trump.

    You are free to do the work the media won’t do and doesn’t want done.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  80. That’s a good story, Haiku. Thing is, I’m not a full-time blogger and there’s only so much time in the day. Whether Donald Trump lying on national TV in front of millions about groping women is a bigger deal than James O’Keefe being banned from Twitter, and if the GOP didn’t have a shit candidate making news by fucking up every single day, I could focus on stuff like that.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  81. Excellent! You can help prevent her getting the 270+ she needs, throwing the election into the House, which has a chance of not choosing Trump.

    No, there is no chance they would not choose Trump. The presidency is lost, no matter who wins it.

    I care only about Congress at this point.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  82. I’m the same person I always was.

    The hallmark of a true conservative: resistance to change.

    “Resistance is futile.” – Star Trek: First Contact, 1989

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  83. What is it with Billy Bush? Why must the fate of humanity rest on Billy Bush’s timing? I despair. ☹️

    Andrew (207d6f)

  84. really nk, where was the lie, re dorothy rabinowitz, who uncovered the amirault witchhunt

    As Jane Doe No. 5, Mrs. Broaddrick had filed an affidavit denying that Mr. Clinton had subjected her to–as the delicately phrased document put it–“unwelcome sexual advances.” Interviewed by the independent counsel’s office, she said that affidavit was false, and that she had been assaulted–an account essential to understanding the second presidential impeachment in U.S. history.

    narciso (d1f714)

  85. @Patterico:by fucking up every single day,

    Actually they’re dredging up everything they have over two decades.

    You could, by focusing on Hillary’s misdeeds, which plenty of your commenters have no trouble finding, help deny Hilary 270+ and give a non-Trump a shot at the Presidency.

    You could do the work the media won’t do, and does not want to see done, hence the 20 year old squirrels.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  86. @Patterico: 270+, guaranteed Hillary. < 270, not necessarily Trump. It's not true that the two choices are a matter of indifference.

    I offer to bet you $1000 at five-to-one odds that the election will not go to the House and result in someone besides Trump.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  87. @Patterico:by f*cking up every single day,

    Actually they’re dredging up everything they have over two decades.

    You could, by focusing on Hillary’s misdeeds, which plenty of your commenters have no trouble finding, help deny Hilary 270+ and give a non-Trump a shot at the Presidency.

    You could do the work the media won’t do, and does not want to see done, hence the 20 year old squirrels and the push polls.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  88. @Patterico:I offer to bet you $1000 at five-to-one odds that the election will not go to the House

    If Hillary does not get 270, it goes in the House, that’s the Constitution.

    If Hillary was getting the same kind of coverage that you’ere helping give Trump at the media’s behest, you would not need to offer 5-to-1. A few weeks ago it was almost even.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  89. “THE NEW YORK TIMES: WORSE THAN YOU THOUGHT
    The Nieman Journalism Lab scores an interview with Dean Baquet, executive editor of the New York Times. If you think the Times has gotten even worse in the last year or two, Baquet is the man to blame.

    Nieman records, enthusiastically, that the Times has veered even more sharply to the left during the present election season:

    Consider that the Times employed 18 of its journalists as realtime fact-checkers during the first presidential debate. Consider Baquet’s own public clarity about calling out Trump lies. Just a couple of weeks ago, the Times featured on its homepage a review of a new Hitler biography by book critic Michiko Kakutani, whose Trumpian analogy may have remained inexplicit, but nonetheless spoke loud volumes about a newfound Times confidence in squarely taking on the issues and fears that consume its readers’ minds.

    Or, more accurately, a newfound confidence in coming out as an agent of the Democratic Party. Which the Times has been for a long time.

    All that, of course, has turned out to be prologue for the Times’ recent publication of just three pages of Donald Trump’s 1995 federal tax return — and its 2,000-word-plus interpretation of it.

    This is wrong. The Times published one page from each of three 1995 state tax returns, nothing from Trump’s federal return. I wrote about the Times hit piece here…”

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/10/the-new-york-times-worse-than-you-thought.php

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  90. You could do the work the media won’t do, and does not want to see done, hence the 20 year old squirrels and the push polls.

    He lied about this just this past weekend. His lies are not 20 years old.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  91. And yes, they’re lies. The four women today come on top of other women previously. They are not ALL lying. And he is a liar. So yes, I believe he is lying about this.

    I don’t know the extent of his lying, and I don’t know if all these stories are true, but I believe him to be lying.

    And again: the House picking someone else is a pipe dream. My money bet remains open.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  92. None of us here wants either Trump or illary to become President. (Okay, there may be a few exceptions!)
    But an election is usually not about who we want to become President, rather, it’s about who we see as doing less damage.

    I can reduce it to a number of single issues.
    But how about this one; who will facilitate better relations with Israel on national security issues; Trump or illary?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  93. I’m not going to play “Was she lying in the affidavit or is she lying now?”. It’s not necessary. Megyn Kelly questioning Kallyanne Conway about the affidavit, which is a fair question, is not the same as calling Juanita Broaddrick a liar, which the clickbait claims.

    nk (dbc370)

  94. @Patterico:His lies are not 20 years old.

    How old are Hillary’s lies? She’s still lying about the servers. Any number of things she’s lying about.

    If Hillary has 270+, no chance of avoiding Hillary. If Hillary has less than 270, there is a chance of avoiding Trump.

    You know this as well as I do. You could start doing the work the media won’t do, and does not want to see done.

    Or not.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  95. yes, coronello, I was just getting to that,

    narciso (d1f714)

  96. Dean Baquet … wasn’t that little amoeba once the editor at the Dog Trainer, like ten years ago or something?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  97. Some of them no doubt ARE liars. But, unlike Bill Clinton’s case, probably not all or even most of them.

    That would also be sarcasm.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  98. no, windy city counselor, was rabinowitz lying, has megyn picked up juan william’s researcher,

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. #2

    Not sure how “confidantes” turn into actionable evidence. Linda Tripp never seemed to be listened to be the Clintons or the media.
    For the Clinton accusers, it has been decades… maybe that is due to the quality of the evidence, or the quality of the denial machine. I think it is the machine. Is Trump maybe capable of these accusations? Well, the machine wants him to be… but the more the machine pushes him as perpetrator, the more I want more than “he said, she said”

    steveg (5508fb)

  100. How old are Hillary’s lies? She’s still lying about the servers. Any number of things she’s lying about.

    Yay. We have two liars. So?

    If Hillary has 270+, no chance of avoiding Hillary. If Hillary has less than 270, there is a chance of avoiding Trump.

    You know this as well as I do.

    You keep repeating that and I’ll keep repeating my offer of a wager. Let’s each repeat our things and talk past each other for, oh, say, a dozen more comments or so? Seems like time well spent to me.

    Who do you think you’re trying to convince here?

    Patterico (bcf524)

  101. And you know that I’m no champion of Barbie Batlash, and that I also defended Trump against Leviticus over the Epstein rape lawsuit.

    nk (dbc370)

  102. But I dunno.
    You are the guy who prosecutes for a living

    steveg (5508fb)

  103. Clinton is currently at 340 with 26 days left and media still pumping from the top of the Trump cesspool (or the cesspool which is Trump). This election isn’t going to the House.

    I’m rather curious as to whether there will be an actual October surprise at all. So far, everything has just been regurgitation of Trump vomit left in plain sight in the media gutters for the past thirty years.

    Rick Ballard (b9de6e)

  104. If Hillary has less than 270, there is a chance of avoiding Trump.

    Which is why I want Romney to make a play for the electoral votes. Not STUCK on Romney, but I can’t think of anyone else who has the gravitas to make the case.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  105. I’ve had it with partisanship. Some of you haven’t. That’s great. I won’t be upset at you. If you feel the need to be upset at me, do us both a favor and be upset at me somewhere else. It’s a request, not an order.

    If you can express your opinions without endless criticism of me, I’d love to keep you around. Any of you. But I’m tired of people bitching and bitching and bitching at me because I hate Donald Trump. It’s not changing. It will never change. Nothing you say will make it change.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  106. 92.And yes, they’re lies. The four women today come on top of other women previously. They are not ALL lying. And he is a liar. So yes, I believe he is lying about this. I don’t know the extent of his lying, and I don’t know if all these stories are true, but I believe him to be lying.

    Conclusion: Cosby is guilty.

    “You’re going to believe a man that age?” – Cliff Huxtable [Bill Cosby] ‘The Cosby Show, NBC TV

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  107. seriously, kevin the fellow in the crazy glue commercial is less stuck to the construction beam.

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. Conclusion: Cosby is guilty.

    Yes, he is.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  109. I don’t understand why Patterico thinks a Republican Congress would resist Clinton more than Trump,
    they haven’t done a good job of opposing Obama over fear of the media the media would have their back for resisting Trump and attack them for resisting Clinton.

    How many deaths, how much corruption, how many lost secrets, how much destroying the Constitution and the rule of law would Trump have to do
    in order to match Clinton?
    That’s the rub.

    Twitter is putting warnings on Prager U?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  110. Gabriel suggests you use your blog/influence to attack Hillary 24/7, even though Trump doesn’t bother to that aND it’s his campaign.

    Of course, some bloggers do try to push an agenda — even if they don’t really agree. I’d rather read a blog where the owner isn’t trying to spin me.

    DRJ (15874d)

  111. @Patterico: Why is it so far-fetched that the House would choose someone not Trump, when they abandoned Trump already and he’s been attacking them?

    Who do you think you’re trying to convince here?

    You.

    and I’ll keep repeating my offer of a wager.

    Offering a wager doesn’t prove anything. Blowhards in bars do that all the time, after all.

    You want to bet $2 to my $100 that the media is hiding something about Hillary that would materially affect this race, if the media gave it the kind of publicity they’re giving Trump?

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  112. Even if it goes to the House, they have to pick one of the candidates who ran, on the first three
    (five?) votes.

    nk (dbc370)

  113. it was youtube, but the same crimethink obtains, safe spaces have to be hermetical,

    http://legalinsurrection.com/2016/10/youtube-puts-prager-university-videos-in-restricted-mode/

    narciso (d1f714)

  114. @nk:Even if it goes to the House, they have to pick one of the candidates who ran, on the first three
    (five?) votes.

    Yeah. Johnson’s been taking votes from Hillary in some places. A party of non-stupids might have tried to exploit that…

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  115. I’d rather read a blog where the owner isn’t trying to spin me.
    DRJ (15874d) — 10/12/2016 @ 7:40 pm

    Absolutely right!

    felipe (023cc9)

  116. If it were to go to the House, the House can only choose from the top 3 finishers in the electoral college. They can’t just choose who they want.

    My half-baked notion is to accept that the GOP is split, and have GOP electoral slates publicly commit, BEFORE the election, to vote for Mitt Romney should the state go GOP. This is particularly important (and perhaps possible) in blue or purple states where Trump is despised. The idea is that IF Hillary does not get 270, no one does, and the GOP House gets to choose between Trump and Romney (with the House Dems having a say).

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  117. You know this as well as I do. You could start doing the work the media won’t do, and does not want to see done.

    Or not.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc) — 10/12/2016 @ 7:32 pm

    Someone needs to get their own blog and start writing, instead of telling other bloggers what to say.

    DRJ (15874d)

  118. @Patterico:tired of people bitching and bitching and bitching at me because I hate Donald Trump.

    I hate Trump. Not asking you to stop hating Trump. Wouldn’t want you to.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  119. I don’t understand why Patterico thinks a Republican Congress would resist Clinton more than Trump,

    OK.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  120. McMullin is 22% to Johnson’s 4% in Utah.

    nk (dbc370)

  121. @Kevin M: You got the idea. But it has no chance at all if Hillary gets 270.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  122. @Patterico:His lies are not 20 years old.

    How old are Hillary’s lies?

    Tu quoque.

    Trump is an evil, lying Leftist Democrat conman. It doesn’t matter who he’s running against, he’s still an evil, lying Leftist Democrat conman. And you are mindlessly following him with all your heart and might and soul. Because that particular Democrat has an R after his name — today.

    John Hitchcock (d19b78)

  123. I am not criticizing you or sticking with Republicans,
    I just don’t see any Congress growing a spine or testicles to resist Clinton.
    Past behavior is the best clue to future behavior.
    I could see Clinton appoint Obama or Bill Ayers to SCOTUS and a Republican senate approving.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  124. @nk: Ok, McMullin then. Whatever, as long as it’s not Hillary and not Trump. If one state goes for neither, and Hillary doesn’t get 270, then that’s the only way we have any chance of avoiding Trump or Hillary.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  125. But we can agree to disagree,
    Too bad we can’t avoid them both.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  126. well ayers is a little long in the tooth, but wellington yueh, a dune reference, for the california progressive is a fair bet,

    narciso (d1f714)

  127. @John Hitchcock:And you are mindlessly following him with all your heart and might and soul.

    I must be standing in front of the person you were addressing, pardon me.

    If you are interested in who I actually support, instead of making words up and putting them in my mouth, and you had paid any attention to the numerous times I said it, you would now that I have never voted for Trump. And in the general, I will vote for the person, of whatever party, most likely to deny Hillary Clinton the electoral votes of my state. My state is very blue, so I could be voting for Revenant Mao for real.

    So no, not a Trump supporter. I’m #NeverHillary.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  128. But we can agree to disagree,
    Too bad we can’t avoid them both.

    I like that attitude, MD in Philly, and wish I’d see a little more of it around here.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  129. @Md Philly:Too bad we can’t avoid them both.

    We can. Deny Hillary her 270 and get one non-Trump state.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  130. Whose pubic hair was on the Coke can? or maybe there wasn’t one at all…

    steveg (5508fb)

  131. The only thing that hasn’t happened yet is an appearance by everyone’s favorite CA lawyer. Gloria Allred in all her bat stroking manners. You would think she would have been all over these women and had them in front of TV cameras doing her normal October Surprise right before the elections. I guess she was told to take a seat on the bench and let the unforced errors happen.

    Charles (3cf0f0)

  132. they engineer a rampaging mob, even with some of the elements available, re the crutcher case, the crump connection should have been a clue,

    narciso (d1f714)

  133. beetlejuice, beetlejuice, beetlejuice, that would toad the wet sprocket,

    narciso (d1f714)

  134. @106–I hate Donald Trump.

    Or maybe it’s you just hate New York. But I truly admire your disgust. These two candidates totally suck. [And vidio of same may yet get one or both of them into more trouble.]

    And having worked in the media for over three decades, it has shamed itself to a point where a high school newspaper would be a better source of news and information today than what passes for same in the print and electronic press.

    Vox Populi, Sybil the Soothsayer… Howard Beale… ‘Network‘ is our world today. And it’s horrifying.

    “We no longer live in a world of nations and ideologies, Mr. Beale. The world is a college of corporations, inexorably determined by the immutable bylaws of business. The world is a business, Mr. Beale.” – Arthur Jensen [Ned Betty] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  135. #130 Gabriel Hanna, John’s usually angry like that.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  136. MD in Philly,

    Charles C.W. Cooke said it well on May 6:

    The more I speak to supporters of Donald Trump, the more convinced I become that a significant portion of the man’s apologists are blissfully unaware of what is actually at stake in 2016. Time and time again, I’m told blithely that it doesn’t really matter if Trump loses in 2016, because a loss could not possibly be worse than the status quo. Trump, I am informed, is a “Hail Mary.” And if the Senate and the House go down, too? Well that’s just the price of trying to shake things up.

    This, I’m afraid, is flat-out wrong. Disastrously wrong. Apocalyptically wrong. The Republican party is an imperfect vehicle and it has, of course, made mistakes. But the idea that it hasn’t effectively and consistently opposed President Obama’s agenda is little more than a dangerous and ignorant fiction. Had the GOP not been standing in the way — both from 2008, when it was in the minority everywhere, and from 2010, when it regained the House — the United States would look dramatically different than it does today. Without the GOP manning the barricades, Obamacare could well have been single payer, and, at the very least, the law would have included a “public option.” Without the GOP manning the barricades, we’d have seen a carbon tax or cap-and-trade — or both. Without the GOP manning the barricades, we’d have got union card check, and possibly an amendment to Taft-Hartley that removed from the states their power to pass “right to work” exemptions. Without the GOP standing in the way, we’d now have an “assault weapons” ban, magazine limits, background checks on all private sales, and a de facto national gun registry. And without the GOP standing in the way in the House, we’d have got the very amnesty that the Trump people so fear (it’s fine to oppose Marco Rubio for his support for the “Gang of 8″ bill, but it’s not fine to pretend that it didn’t matter that the Republicans ran the House when the reform bill left the Senate; it did).

    The exxcessive cynicism over the GOP has helped enable Trump. And you’re talking to someone who has (I think with justification) been very cynical about them. But please don’t argue they didn’t oppose Obama at all.

    Remember when commenters here all told me the GOP would cave and nominate Merrick Garland? And I said they wouldn’t? And everyone laughed at me?

    It’s October 12. Hasn’t happened.

    Now Donald Trump and Ace of Spades want Paul Ryan gone. Trump likes the ObamaCare mandate. He wants government to take care of everyone’s health care and the taxpayers pay for it. And nobody in Congress, even Ted Cruz, dares openly oppose the man.

    This seems pretty obvious to me. That’s why I just said “OK” — because I despaired at trying to explain it. Luckily I remembered Cooke’s piece, and he helped me.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  137. @134.The only thing that hasn’t happened yet is an appearance by everyone’s favorite CA lawyer. Gloria Allred in all her bat stroking manners.

    She flapped into a TV studio last week when the tape broke.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  138. We can. Deny Hillary her 270 and get one non-Trump state.

    Members of Congress won’t even say they’d oppose Trump if he said he loved rape. Jeff Sessions won’t call grabbing a woman’s privates without her consent sexual assault. And I’m supposed to expect politicians like this would vote for someone other than Trump.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  139. there are not one, but two productions re christine chubbuck, the one who inspired network,

    narciso (d1f714)

  140. “Too bad we can’t avoid them both.”

    Yes, it is too bad. And yet, there it is. With Trump, I think there’s at least a chance of someone exposing the corruption and lies of the embedded political elite, the left and their media protectors. Without that happening, the American Dream as we know it, is in the rearview mirror.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  141. Just looked at James O’Keefe’s Twitter account, by the way. Seems operative to me.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  142. @Patterico:Members of Congress won’t even say they’d oppose Trump if he said he loved rape.

    It’s like the weekend never happened…

    And I’m supposed to expect politicians like this would vote for someone other than Trump.

    There’s A chance if Hillary doesn’t get her 270, and NO chance if she does.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  143. With Trump, I think there’s at least a chance of someone exposing the corruption and lies of the embedded political elite, the left and their media protectors.

    As MD in Philly says, let’s agree to disagree. It’s a nice thought. But personally, I don’t think it’s realistic. Donald Trump to me is the essence of lies, as Hillary Clinton is the essence of corruption.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  144. Yes, P, I remember seeing that argument,
    But the list of things enabled and allowed is quite long and deplorable as well

    Thanks, narciso, for that info.
    The daughter thinks I am over the top on some things,
    But I think she will take notice of PragerU being punished.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  145. Yeah, no mention of Justice Clarence Thomas other than in the context of Anita Hill, who has her own exhibit, at the new black American museum at the Smithsonian.

    Goddamned Orwellian.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  146. well md, in order to create a compliant population, you need emotional response, which prager tries as much to avoid,

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. I have never had any confidence about Trump,
    Still don’t,
    But I am confident of how bad Clinton is

    As I said before,
    Clinton would never be impeached
    If trump was president already, I think he would be under impeachment now.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  148. Yeah, no mention of Justice Clarence Thomas other than in the context of Anita Hill, who has her own exhibit, at the new black American museum at the Smithsonian.

    Goddamned Orwellian.

    I saw a headline about that. It’s awful. He’s a great man. I got to shake his hand. I read his book. He’s my favorite Justice. He was even when Scalia was alive.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  149. Kevin M: You got the idea. But it has no chance at all if Hillary gets 270.

    Well, since I was arguing this to you yesterday or the day before — and you were calling me crazy — yeah, I probably do.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  150. I have never had any confidence about Trump,
    Still don’t,
    But I am confident of how bad Clinton is

    I dunno. I think people have sort of worked themselves up into a lather about her. Sure, I hate her: she’s dishonest and corrupt and all that. And she’s a Democrat, and Democrats suck as a rule. But I have always said that I like my Democrats unprincipled, because (as her hubby did) they will sacrifice their principles to save their political hide. Bill could have done worse. And I think we’ll survive her. The Court will be really bad. She may get us into a stupid war — probably, even. She’ll continue running us towards a financial disaster. But the GOP will resist her on the worst of it — if Trumpers allow them to retain Congress.

    ALSO SHE’S A GODDAMN DEMON AAAAAAAAAUUGHHH

    Patterico (bcf524)

  151. I think a little wolfsbane will do the trick

    narciso (d1f714)

  152. Patterico,

    There is this about throwing the election into the House: if it got there the election would be between Trump and X, and presumably X is sane. The Democrats, while they would prefer Hillary, still get to vote in their state delegations. Presumably they would NOT choose Trump (let’s assume X isn’t Cruz), and could ally with a minority of anti-Trump Republicans for X.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  153. @141
    Which is surprising considering how every political season, she has always shown up in front of the TV cameras to sink a CA Republican. Her kill rate has been pretty good and she usually gets at least 30secs of play on the TV/Radio and at least a couple of news links from the news aggregators (Google or Bing). Now she is totally quiet.

    Charles (3cf0f0)

  154. @Kevin M:Well, since I was arguing this to you yesterday or the day before — and you were calling me crazy

    I reviewed that thread. What I was saying was crazy was trying to deny Trump a spot on state ballots through the RNC or some other means. But getting one non-Trump, one non-Hillary state is not the same thing, and not crazy.

    Deny Hillary 270 and there is a shot to stop Trump and Hillary. Do not deny Hillary, and there is no shot.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  155. — Enough of this fence straddling. If somebody held a gun to your head and said “Choose Trump or Hillary”, which would you choose?
    — The bullet.

    nk (dbc370)

  156. @nk:“Choose Trump or Hillary”

    There is a third way, but it would involve trying to keep Hillary under 270.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  157. “THOMAS SOWELL: Hillary Clinton’s Actions Are Worse Than Donald Trump’s Words.

    Funny, Green Party candidate Jill Stein said the same thing.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/246230/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  158. While it is possible that whassisname will take Utah from Trump, it’s nearly worthless. Better would be to take states like Massachusetts from Hillary. Or, dreaming the dream, California. If voters thought they were choosing there between Hillary and ROMNEY rather than Trump (who will lose by 40% in California and Massachusetts), the electoral college thing might work. And no one could accuse Romney of stealing states Trump might have won.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  159. There is a third way, but it would involve trying to keep Hillary under 270.

    There’s other ways, too.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  160. massachussetts is blue enough to be ultraviolet, of course after the amnesty even texas will be that way,

    narciso (d1f714)

  161. @kevin M:While it is possible that whassisname will take Utah from Trump

    He’s on the ballot in more than just Utah. He’s not named Trump.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  162. @Kevin M:There’s other ways, too.

    Are you one of those Second Amendment people?

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  163. The think about democracy is that it’s orderly, said the Supreme Court. And that orderliness now says that whoever was not on the ballot, or registered as a write-in, by the deadline, does not get any votes cast for him counted.

    nk (dbc370)

  164. I love Thomas Sowell’s books, but I don’t always like his columns, and my response to his “her actions are worse than his words” was:

    “My cousin Eddie threatens rape a lot, but he has never voted to approve an Obama judge and Mike Lee has!”

    Get it? Mike Lee’s actions in approving Obama judges — and I’m sure he has — are worse than cousin Eddie’s mere words. Except no.

    It’s not a perfect analogy, but this notion that we can always judge a politician to be worse than any non-politician because the non-politician has not taken official actions that are bad or hurtful — no matter how manifestly unfit the non-politician is — strikes me a stupid argument unworthy of Sowell.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  165. well we’re smack dab in the civil war on the peninsula, if only we had been nice to the pasdaran,

    https://www.rt.com/usa/362582-yemen-radar-sites-airstrikes/

    they are working off reuters,

    narciso (d1f714)

  166. @nk:whoever was not on the ballot, or registered as a write-in, by the deadline, does not get any votes cast for him counted.

    Fantastic. There’s non-Trump Republicans on the ballots in plenty of states. Let’s get working on denying Hillary 270.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  167. McMullin is on the ballot in 11 states and registered as a write-in in 23 more. I was thinking of writing in Kasich, but he’s not registered in Cook County. I know it would only be a protest vote, but I’m looking at McMullen right now, unless I find out that he’s a weirdo, since he is registered in Cook County.

    nk (dbc370)

  168. I better watch the spelling too. It’s got to be exact.

    nk (dbc370)

  169. If we all just pray hard enough, then neither Trump nor illary will become President.
    But if we don’t pray hard enough, one of the two will still become President.
    I don’t want Trump to become President, but I prefer him to illary.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  170. naw we saw in alaska, that’s a flexible guideline, even though the family had been in charge for 30 years,

    narciso (d1f714)

  171. @Cruz Supporter:But if we don’t pray hard enough, one of the two will still become President.

    Not at all. Deny Hillary 270 and get one state to go for an alternative.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  172. the point of the story, is to put it out there, and have it a subject of the debate, raddatz and vanderbilt, didn’t do their job, so wallace has to clean up,

    narciso (d1f714)

  173. Gabriel Hanna,

    illary will get well over 300 electoral votes.
    Let’s be realistic!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  174. Let Gabriel dream, CS. I had a dream, or maybe I dreamed that I had a dream, that Trump pointed his finger at me and shouted, “You are the reason I lost the Presidency, Nevertrumper”, assuring my footnote in history.

    nk (dbc370)

  175. cut back on the bad chinese takeout,

    narciso (d1f714)

  176. Trump grabbed him some ass huh? Okay, noted.

    Jcurtis (ad2808)

  177. I got slapped once because I made an unwelcome ass grab. Does that mean I can’t be president now? Even Ted Williams struck out sometimes for crisakes.

    Jcurtis (ad2808)

  178. It’s not any Chinese takeout, it’s you guys who say #nevertrump will be the reason Trump loses, and to which I say “I wish”.

    nk (dbc370)

  179. Re this from our host (#):

    … And I think we’ll survive [Hillary Clinton]. The Court will be really bad. She may get us into a stupid war — probably, even. She’ll continue running us towards a financial disaster. But the GOP will resist her on the worst of it — if Trumpers allow them to retain Congress.

    Yes, even one chamber, which I’m hoping is still a possibility. If I were helping the survivors strategize on long-term goals for the clean-up, I’d say that they need to use every constitutional lever available to them, which, with respect to the Court, may include amending the Judiciary Act to change the size of the Court. It hasn’t ever been done for political reasons, but it is indeed constitutionally available and legitimate. If the GOP can manage to hold on to both chambers, then I think it’s also time to admit that the Democrats have killed the comity which was always the only basis for the filibuster, and rewrite Senate Rule XXII on cloture accordingly (going to straight-up majority rule, as per the Constitution).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  180. According to Ms. Leeds, Mr. Trump

    “Ms.” Leeeds. “Mr.” Trump. Say what you want about the NYT, you can still a recognize that a piece is from it by the writing style.

    nk (dbc370)

  181. @ Gabriel Hanna:

    Yes, yes, Clinton, Trump, 270, no chance, a chance. We get it.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  182. Yes, even one chamber, which I’m hoping is still a possibility. If I were helping the survivors strategize on long-term goals for the clean-up, I’d say that they need to use every constitutional lever available to them, which, with respect to the Court, may include amending the Judiciary Act to change the size of the Court. It hasn’t ever been done for political reasons, but it is indeed constitutionally available and legitimate. If the GOP can manage to hold on to both chambers, then I think it’s also time to admit that the Democrats have killed the comity which was always the only basis for the filibuster, and rewrite Senate Rule XXII on cloture accordingly (going to straight-up majority rule, as per the Constitution).

    They could also refuse to confirm any Justice not in the mold of Scalia. They would never have the balls, of course, but like you, Beldar, I’m good and done with the comity stuff. At this point it’s all about willingness to flex the muscles you have. I’d be fine with refusing to confirm a Hlilary nominee for four years if that’s what it takes.

    Again, though, they’ll roll over on that. I can dream but I recognize it’s just that: a dream.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  183. I am not criticizing you or sticking with Republicans,
    I just don’t see any Congress growing a spine or testicles to resist Clinton.
    Past behavior is the best clue to future behavior.

    MD, here is where I respectfully disagree: I think that Obama, who despite his horrible policies and obvious incompetence managed to always remain personally popular, was very very hard to deal with for the GOP. Obviously because he’s African-American, but I think too that the GOP worried that Obama continually remained popular with the young crowd because he was (vaguely) culturally hip and had all of the right Hollywood types fawning over him.

    Hillary isn’t like that. She is by and large personally unpopular and if she is elected President she will probably start out as the single most unpopular person to ever be inaugurated. Because of that, I think the GOP will not have nearly as much of a challenge opposing her as they did in opposing Obama. Also, she comes ready-made with private scandals, including the as of yet largely unexplored connection between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation. I know that it is super popular these days to accuse the GOP Congress of all kinds of gutlessness and perfidy, and Lord knows I have also taken them to task from time to time, but I don’t see Clinton as the political force that Obama was and I expect that if they can hold the majority they can hem her in and make some strong inroads in the 2018 midterms.

    JVW (6e49ce)

  184. You are onto something, JVW.

    Maybe we can start by supporting future candidate who isn’t a dumpster fire of a human being.

    Good Lord. And the tweetstorms are just beginning from the guy.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  185. @147 Patterico

    What happens when an Irresistible Lie meets an Immovable Corruption?

    Pinandpuller (78ea44)

  186. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/business/balance-fairness-and-a-proudly-provocative-presidential-candidate.html?_r=0

    The NY Times has publicly stated they will do anything to stop Trump. They have consorted with communists against America and continue to push it domestically. But you will gladly trust them and defend them because they attack Trump.

    Trump is a very bad man. Clinton is worse. Trump has a chance of being impeached if he over steps the office. Clinton is untouchable.

    Why would you ever rather Clinton? Does illegal immigration matter that much to you?

    NJRob (8dee2a)

  187. You choose not to vote for either one of them. The election becomes of little value. It’s already been settled that a great deal of damage was done when the corrupt lying Democrat was chosen to run against the corrupt lying Democrat.

    John Hitchcock (d19b78)

  188. Ace: “She-man”.

    DNF (755a85)

  189. I hope Cliven Bundy updated his will and has a paid up funeral.

    Pinandpuller (78ea44)

  190. 196. Mr. ‘little value’ opines same.

    DNF (755a85)

  191. 193. The persistent virtue-signalling is but a distraction for AFSME membership.

    Lying litters the CV.

    DNF (755a85)

  192. This is starting to look like the finale of Seinfeld.

    They’re real, and they’re spectacular!- Jacky Chiles

    Pinandpuller (78ea44)

  193. The best time to catch Hillary’s lies is when she moves them to a larger facility.

    Pinandpuller (78ea44)

  194. #nevertrump is united in desiring the hog-slop continue on Americas’ back.

    No price is too dear for the upper-lower class to pay.

    DNF (755a85)

  195. Regurgitating MSM agitprop is the best Rico can do.

    A dog returns to his vomit.

    DNF (755a85)

  196. 180. My what grandiose dreams.

    DNF (755a85)

  197. My local republican congressman is not voting for Trump, so we all got together and melted his plastic signs. Could be the first time I vote for a democrat.

    mg (31009b)

  198. 187. “… And I think we’ll survive [Hillary Clinton]. The Court will be really bad. She may get us into a stupid war — probably, even. She’ll continue running us towards a financial disaster. But the GOP will resist her on the worst of it — if Trumpers allow them to retain Congress.”

    A ship of fools. Like ‘the War’ is an indifferent matter. Check out an SS-18’s 1000′ air burst kill zone.

    DNF (755a85)

  199. 206. I expect to make one vote only on my walker and 1 week on a new hip.

    DNF (755a85)

  200. Anyone see General Milley’s warning to the Russians? Anyone see HSBC’s warning on the market?

    Anyone see Deutsche Bank selling $4.5 Billion in junk paying 4.91% with all maturities of Bunds zero or below?

    Anyone see working-age unemployed at 94.7 million?

    No, idiots perk up at Juanita Hill, but nothing substantive. Loozers just lose, EOS.

    DNF (755a85)

  201. If not Trump give them the democrats on a silver platter, because team rino has tarnished themselves into oblivion.

    mg (31009b)

  202. #204: are you serious? Do you not see that reacting to Patterico’s opinion like you are an insulting creep doesn’t help your own cause? It makes you look like an extremist…which is something you say you don’t care for when people are extreme in opinions that differ from yours.

    Take a chill pill, especially when insulting the fellow who pays to keep this site up.

    It’s like you want to battle with other people, instead of winning elections.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  203. Today’s Podesta spill notes his conspiring for a “‘Catholic Spring’ in open revolt against the Medieval dictatorship” of anti-abortion Roman Catholicism.

    #nevertrump: It’s probably nothing.

    DNF (755a85)

  204. 211. Use your education or surrender. Sanctimony is the idle-workshop of self=abusers.

    DNF (755a85)

  205. 211. “Winning”. Again 20% of 25% of 50%, the absolute high-water mark of #nevertrump is 02.5%.

    Making azzes of prisses like yourself is hardly kicking against the goads, rather it is reassuring trailer trash academia is bankrupt.

    DNF (755a85)

  206. The lumpen proletariat is done with PC proscriptions of the SJW.

    #nevertrump has gone over to the enemy and merits only ridicule.

    DNF (755a85)

  207. DNF, do you have any idea how silly you look? Sigh.

    Just read some of your posts out loud.

    Look: you have a right to vote however you wish. I’m not calling your over the top insulting names.

    You should consider extending that courtesy to others.

    But I did enjoy the string of bizarre late night posts.

    Sort of like Trump and twitter.

    Again, your actions do not help the cause you say you care about; you should be about changing minds instead of flinging insults. Particularly on someone else’s dime.

    Best wishes.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  208. Kevin M (25bbee) — 10/12/2016 @ 8:20 pm

    There is this about throwing the election into the House: if it got there the election would be between Trump and X, and presumably X is sane.

    Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, and X, with something like 57% of the House needed on the first ballot to elect, because states can be divided, and not vote, but are still needed for a majority.

    The Democrats, while they would prefer Hillary, still get to vote in their state delegations. Presumably they would NOT choose Trump (let’s assume X isn’t Cruz), and could ally with a minority of anti-Trump Republicans for X.

    A lot of Republicans would vote for X – and, I’m not sure how a state’s vote is decided, but if a plurality carried the day some who supported X would vote in such a way so as to divide the delegation, so more states than you think would still be divided. Maybe the House would first need to settle on rules as to how to cast a state’s vote.

    In both previous elections when the election was thrown into the House of Represenatives the House had only two people to choose from so an individual member of the House could only vote for A or B or not vote.

    The possibly prior Senate selection of the vice president is also a factor that wasn’t present in the two previous occasions when the election was thrown into the House of Representatives. In the election of 1800, there was no separate vote for vice president, and Jefferson and Burr were the only ones who had more than a majority (each Elector cast two votes) and were tied. And the runner up for president became vice president automatically.

    And in the election of 1824, the prominent John C. Calhoun ran for vice president and was elected outright, and one of the 3 choices for president, William H. Crawford, was completely unviable because he’d had a stroke, only much of the country hadn’t known it, so he got Electoral more votes than Henry Clay, so it was between Andrew Jackson and John Quncy Adams.

    The 12th amendment had limited the choices down to 3 – otherwise Henry Clay might very well have been chosen by the House. That limitiation to the top 3 finishers is a defect in the U.S. Constitution.

    So anyway, some Republicans would defect to X, or even to Hillary. Tthe Democrats would stick much more strongly for Hillary and, if the new Senate, where there are only two choices and members vote as individuals, if it had had a Democratic majority or was tied, and would have voted Tim Kaine for vice president, would use the argument that the president and the vice president should be of the same party, and Hillary Clinton would be preparing to exercise power informally if the House did not choose anyone. The Democrats therefore wouldn’t feel a need to have the House choose, and would charge the Republicans with failing to have the government work. It would take some determination to stand up to that and not have enough Republicans break so as to select Hillary.

    Only if it was clear that no president could be selected (and maybe that could happen only if the Senate made no decision or picked Pence) could we get to X, but that is not beyond the bounds of possibility. What is almost beyond the bounds of possibility is Trump getting chosen because no Democrats would switch to him and many Republicans would defect.

    More detail about Election of 1824: In the election of 1824, there were 261 Electoral votes, so 132 constituted a majority, and Jackson got 99, and John Quincy Adams got 84, Crawford got 41 and Henry Clay got 37. In the race for vice president, John C. Calhoun got 182, well over a majority, and Nathan Sanford got 30, Nathaniel Macon 24, Andrew Jackson 13, Martin Van Buren 9, and Henry Clay 2, with 1 Elector not casting a vote for vice president. In 1824, John C. Calhoun was not yet a big defender of slavery, or even of nullification.

    I just discovered and didn’t know before that in 1824 Andrew Jackson got some votes for vice president (that he probably hadn’t looked for) and also Martin Van Buren was already a potential national figure.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  209. @106–I hate Donald Trump.

    What’s not to like:

    He’s wealthy.
    He’s successful.
    He’s Presbyterian.
    He’s white.
    He has a pretty wife.
    He has lovely ex-wives.
    He has attractive children.
    He has lots of property.
    He has several smartphones.
    He has expensive suits.
    He has more expensive lawsuits.
    He has a big airplane.
    He has a cool helicopter.
    He has money in the bank.
    He has plastic in his pocket.
    He has an entrepreneurial spirit.
    He has a very smart tax accountant.
    He has his way with the ladies.
    He has hotels around the globe to stay in.
    He has golf courses around the world to play on.
    He likes to eat pizza with a fork.
    He likes to tweet.
    He likes to kiss.
    He likes to use Tic-Tacs.
    He likes to sniff.
    He likes to bluster.
    He likes to wheel and deal.
    He likes to win.

    And he lives in a magnificent, golden tower in that ‘shining city on hill’ with a lifestyle and attitude nostalgic Reaganites and most-driven Americans enviously dream, swoon and aspire to. What’s not to like?… 😉

    “Oh right- New York…” – Steve Martin, SNL monologue

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  210. 210. “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.”

    #nevertrump postures that it demands ‘Constitutional government’ or it rolls over and plays dead before Shiva, the Destroyer.

    And they demand respect for this?

    DNF (755a85)

  211. 216. A mind is a terrible thing to waste. Have an idea.

    DNF (755a85)

  212. In 1824, John C. Calhoun was not yet a big defender of slavery, or even of nullification.

    IIRC, Calhoun ended up serving as Adams’ VP, then as Jackson’s VP 4 years later, the only VP to have served a president and the man who defeated him for re-election.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  213. How about we put Trump and three accusers against Bill and three accusers on The Family Feud?

    Hosted by Bill Cosby.

    Pinandpuller (78ea44)

  214. You are kind of funny, DNF. Like Mr. Feet, you have forgotten the first rule of holes.

    Stop digging.

    Again: acting like you do does not change minds. One would think you would want more people to think the way you do. Insulting people is a non-optimal path.

    Me? I suspect you just like to fight. That seems to be your approach to posting on Patterico’s site.

    I wish you well.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  215. There’s no hard evidence that President Obama was captured sporting an erection in front of female reporters in a 2008 video.

    Oh Snopes, you slay me.

    So that was the crease in his pants that sent thrills up legs.

    Pinandpuller (78ea44)

  216. I thought that the first rule of holes is that they are like opinions.

    Pinandpuller (78ea44)

  217. nk (dbc370) — 10/12/2016 @ 7:40 pm

    Even if it goes to the House, they have to pick one of the candidates who ran, on the first three (five?) votes.

    Three. It was five in the original constitution, when there was no separate vote for vice president.

    In both previous House elections, there was only a choice between two people, at least de facto, and the vice presidency was not an issue. The dynamics would be different this time.

    A Republican House of Represenatives could very well choose Hillary Clinton. If the Senate has at least 50 non-Republicans, it will choose Tim Kaine as Vice President (the choice is between only the top two finishers for vice president – which is why some billionaire, like David Koch should have run on a third party ticket for vice president – with different candidates in different states for president, because he could self finance, and at the same time, there would be no risk pf him having to take office.)

    If a Democratic vice president has already been selected, there will be a strong effort to push the House Republicans to select Hillary Clinton, because if no decision is reached, she will be de facto president anyway come January 20, and it will be much harder for any Democrats to defect, even to X.

    They could make a deal on the Supreme Court: e.g. She won’t pull the nomination of Merrick Garland, who at least is not committed against Citizens United. (backing out after being inaugurated would result in a political uproar and likely defeat of her nominee.)

    nk (dbc370) — 10/12/2016 @ 8:33 pm

    whoever was not on the ballot, or registered as a write-in, by the deadline, does not get any votes cast for him counted.

    People are voting for Electors. I think you could write in names of Electors. A write-in for a person for president, unless maybe an off-the-ballot candidate can be pre-registered, may not even be tabulated, but may be recorded simply as a spoiled ballot, or an undervote, or, possibly, if the circumstances are right, as a vote for someone as an Elector. (For instance, a vote for Ted Cruz in Texas. But in that case, you should write in 28 other names of Texas residents as well.)

    State law probably says exactly what counts as what, and so far I don’t know if any publication is explaining what the choices are. It’s definitely something of interest to voters. It may require extensive research. Maybe it’s been published in some obscure place, at least for certain states. Otherwise, some news organizations should be contacting election lawyers all across the country, and several in each state, but probably nobody’s doing it, or they’ll publish it the day after the election. Maybe somebody has researched it, and put the information up for sale for $90 or even $900, or maybe it gets included with a $3,000 a year subscription to some publication. (Election lawtyers have to learn the law from somewhere)

    The Electors can vote for anybody without legal penalty (although in some states that may not be clear) and maybe 5 to 20 Republian Electors elected pledged to Trump can be expected to vote for someone besides Trump, if it matters. But to get into the House of Representatives, Hillary Clinton has to fall below 270 electoral votes, which means some Democratic leaning states have to be carried by somebody else.

    Minnesota may be the best possibility, if there is a campaign. Jesse Ventura got elected Governor as a third party candidate. That would be 10 Electoral votes. No-Trump may probably need more to pull Hillary below 270. Votes cast in other states matter, because the House will pay attention to the popular vote.

    I can’t say what would be the best thing to do in some close states. To get into the House there has to be massive shift away from Hillary and toward third party candidates. The combined nationwide major party vote for president probably has to fall below 78% or maybe 75%. We seem to be now in the mid to the high 80s. As it drops, the votes will be taken disproportinately from Hillary Clinton.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc) — 10/12/2016 @ 7:32 pm

    If Hillary has 270+, no chance of avoiding Hillary. If Hillary has less than 270, there is a chance of avoiding Trump.

    That really should be:

    If Hillary has less than 270, there is a chance of avoiding Hillary

    Trump won’t get chosen, because the votes of some Democrats will be needed.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  218. Kevin M (25bbee) — 10/13/2016 @ 12:20 am

    IIRC, Calhoun ended up serving as Adams’ VP, then as Jackson’s VP 4 years later, the only VP to have served a president and the man who defeated him for re-election.

    Right. He resigned in 1832, in order to accept a more powerful position as United States Senator from South Carolina, where the legislature had just chosen him, and because he’d started the nullification dispute with President Andrew Jackson. (the two things may not be unrelated)

    There was another person who served as vice president under two different presidents. George Clinton, long-time Governor of New York State. He was vice president during the second term of Thomas Jefferson. (In Thomas Jefferson’s first term, the vice president was Aaron Burr. He was still vice president when he was indicted for murder in New Jersey.) And he was also vice president during most of the first term of James Madison. He died in office in 1812. James Madison’s second vice president, Elbridge Gerry (yes, that Elbridge Gerry) also died in office, in 1814.

    One person was once nominated for vice president by a major party, under two different presidential candidates: Adlai Stevenson (the 1952 and 1956 presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson’s grandfather)
    He ran with Grover Cleveland in 1892, and was elected, and with William Jennings Bryan (the second time he ran) in the year 1900, and lost.

    Another person nearly got the vice presidential nomination from two different political parties! And only eight years apart.

    Joe Lieberman ran with Democrat Al Gore in the year 2000, and also almost was selected by John McCain in 2008, except that John McCain was warned the Republican convention might reject him, and chose Sarah Palin instead.

    Of course any number of people were nominated for vice president and later on got the nomination for president. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the Democratic vice presidential nominee in 1920 (because Democrats hoped he might be mistaken for someone close to Theodore Roosevelt – his wife Eleanor was closer, being his niece) and president in 1932, and three times after; and Bob Dole was the Republican nominee for vice president in 1976, and for president in 1996.

    I actually can’t think of or find any other names of people, who were not elected vice president, who were nominated for vice president and later were nominated for president, although any number of losing vice presidential candidates have tried since Sargent Shriver in the 1976 election.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  219. Americans: at least 2016 couldn’t get any weirder.

    God: send in teh clowns.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  220. Time for the weird to turn pro.

    mg (31009b)

  221. it’s gonna be a better day the day President Trump begins the serious and painstaking task of making America great again

    and we’ll all have our special role to play on that coming better day

    there’s a sign-up sheet in the kitchen you guys

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  222. Is that the place where you vote?

    Oh, wait.

    Simon Jester (eb75fd)

  223. i’ll put you down for sugar cookies

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  224. Bob Dylan got the Nobel Prize in Literature. Good to know that there is one thing that has been degraded even more than the U.S. Presidency has. Or is it? The whole world is going to hell in a handbasket.

    Putin/Merkel 2016! Make Earth Great Again!

    nk (dbc370)

  225. I hope everyone is realizing that this is total media assassination of Trump. Trump said the words, yes, but they pulled out what he was responding to. The GOP knew the tape was coming so they put out the word that Trump was quitting before the tape came out, telling other GOPer’s to remove their support so it did not look like they had done that due to the tape. The woman on the airplane, Jessica Leeds, if you noticed in her tape didn’t seem to be much upset so long as her aledged encounter with Trump was above the waist but she said “when he touched her skirt” THAT is as far as she said he went, touched her skirt, that was when she got upset. Now imagine if you will, 30 years ago when we were a much more prudish society…anyone carrying on like that on an airplane would NEVER happen. We did not like public displays of affection in those days. Plus the face that arm rests were cumbersome AFFIXED things in those days so in essence this woman is full of crap oh and did I fail to mention….her phone number is the same as one of the Clinton Initative’s phone numbers. So if you were for Trump, hang in there…he is still far better than Hillary!!

    Boudica (efb7ff)

  226. “A CAMPAIGN BUILT ON HATRED AND DISDAIN: Clinton campaign mocks Catholics, Southerners, ‘needy Latinos’ in emails.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/246263/

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  227. All these losers, and Hillary has her share along with Trump, looking for a President who will trickle down on them and float them up on a warm, safe and cozy, yellow sea of prosperity.

    nk (dbc370)

  228. JVW, that’s exactly what I’m yhinking, though I shudder to think who her true consigliere will be (Kaine was nothing more than a mis-cast pander to white yuppie Never Trump, Warner would have got that bill better).

    urbanleftbehind (71b374)

  229. “WHAT IT TAKES TO GET THE WASHINGTON POST TO FACT-CHECK A RAPE VICTIM’S STORY:

    Washington Post fact-checker Glenn Kessler took the time to sift through the 41-year-old case of Kathy Shelton, who said she was raped when she was 12 years old by a then-41-year-old man.

    Ordinarily, I’d expect the Post to take Shelton’s claims at face value (and to be fair, Kessler does call her a rape victim, as her attacker, Thomas Taylor, agreed to a plea bargain). The Post would be accused of “victim-blaming” if it dared point out an accuser’s changing story, even if it ultimately seemed sympathetic to her.

    But Shelton is different because she has told the press that Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton “took me through hell” and has appeared with GOP nominee Donald Trump.

    This earns Shelton extra scrutiny. Kessler points out that she didn’t know until 2007 that Clinton was the defense attorney in her case, that she may or may not have been misquoted about harboring no ill will toward Clinton and that she said she had a psychiatric exam but court records say she didn’t.

    These aren’t the “smoking gun” contradictions I would usually consider evidence of an untruthful accuser (and again, Kessler is not saying she is untruthful). Shelton could have hated a random, unnamed defense attorney until she found out it was Clinton, who by that point had become a household name. That would have been pretty devastating for a victim, to find out that a former first lady, U.S. senator and, at the time, presidential candidate was responsible for allowing your rapist to walk free.

    In 2007, Shelton apparently told Glenn Thrush, who was then a reporter for Newsday, that she felt Clinton “was just doing her job” by representing Taylor. Seven years later, in 2014, she told the Daily Beast she was misquoted and that “Hillary Clinton took me through hell.” She could have been upset with an unnamed defense attorney, as I wrote above. Or she could have never thought about the other people involved in the case until she was shown an affidavit from Clinton claiming Shelton “is emotionally unstable with a tendency to seek out older men and to engage in fantasizing” and “has in the past made false accusations about persons, claiming they had attacked her body.”

    Clinton merely said in the affidavit that she had “been informed” of these things about Shelton, but offered no source or proof. Shelton told Thrush in 2007 that she was shocked by the affidavit because “it’s not true” and she had “never said anybody attacked my body before, never in my life.”

    It’s always “believe the women” until they threaten the career of a Clinton. Then it’s “a little bit nutty, a little bit slutty” and “look what you get when you drag a $100 bill through a trailer park.” And the press plays right along because, well, think of them as Democratic operatives with bylines and you won’t go far wrong.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/246185/

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  230. #NeverTrump #They’reWithHer

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  231. Haiku, Patterico said he’s not a Hillary supporter. Why do you keep lying and saying he is?

    John Hitchcock (d19b78)

  232. Does he represent all of #NeverTrump, Hitchcock?

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  233. @John Hitchcock:Patterico said he’s not a Hillary supporter. Why do you keep lying and saying he is?

    I agree that Patterico is not a “Hillary supporter”. His 8:12 statement makes his position quite clear: he thinks that Hillary is survivable and that the danger to the republic that she represents is overblown.

    I have not come to the same calculation he has, but neither of us has complete information and both of us are working in good faith.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  234. I’ve seen you effectively lump all the folks who will reluctantly cast a vote for Trump in with those who supported him from the get-go. So please excuse me if I disregard your views.

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  235. My calculation has been, if Hillary gets 269 or less there is a possibility to avoid Trump AND Hillary, but if she gets 270 or more there is no chance of avoiding Hillary.

    The #NeverTrump calculation is, if Hillary gets 270 or more there is no possibility of having Trump but if she gets 269 or less there is a good chance we will get Trump.

    Same information, but different importance given to the outcomes. That’s what makes a horse race.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  236. I’ve seen you effectively lump all the folks who will reluctantly cast a vote for Trump in with those who supported him from the get-go. So please excuse me if I disregard your views.

    Colonel Haiku

    You do the same thing.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  237. Hilary is not “survivable.”

    SarahW (3164f0)

  238. Colonel Haiku (f00165) — 10/13/2016 @ 6:09 am

    But Shelton is different because she has told the press that Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton “took me through hell”

    The attack on the witness was of a type that later got outlawed in rape cases. But it’s even worse than that.

    Hillary Clinton was a dishonest lawyer and if she did what somebody just accused her of on the Sean Hannity radio show, she should have been disbarred. She’s been a dishonest lawyer since the day she started practiing law, because it also goes back to the impeachment hearings.

    This was later, about 1977.

    The way Hillary Clinton told the story, when she asked for the underwear so she could independently do a blood test (not DNA, because this was before DNA, but probably still something that narrowed it down quote a bit – you could test for a dozen blood test types maybe)

    She says when they gave to her with the part containing the evidence cut out – that is, they had cut it all out when they did their test, so she was able to dispute the evidence, and pleas bargainind the whole thing down.

    On Monday, I think, I heard someone being interviewd in the Sean Hannity radio show. He had on Kathy Shelton and some other educated sounding woman. I only caught a piece of this interview so I don’t know who this other person wass. It sounded like she was some sort of an advocate for Kathy Shelton.

    She said Hillary Clinton pulled a dirty trick.

    It was Hillary Clinton, who removed the part of the underwear containing the evidence!

    That makes a lot more sense but I suspect there was a lot more to this. The fanmily of the accused was probably politically connected, and even if Hillary was working for very little, to help out Bill Clinton or to build a little reputation, and was being paid by the state of Arkansas, still therw were all kinds of experts consulted, so somebody had to be spending a lot of money on the rapists defense.

    So I suspect Hillary Clinton didn’t cut out the part of the underwear herself. She either arranged for it herself, or the family of the defendant did, maybe by paying off someone in teh DA;s office but it all had to be co-ordinated.

    I don’t think Hillary Clinton ever complained when she got the underwear that there was something missing. She just reported back there was nothnng that could be detected.

    It is quite plausible that she never knew the name of the defense attorney until 2007, or that she would not have recognized and remembered the name till the mid-1980s. It is also very logical that she would not have been told (by someone who rcontacted her) that the attorney in her case was nonse other than Hillary Rodham Clinton and that would not have hapepned until 2007.

    that she said she had a psychiatric exam but court records say she didn’t.

    If it couldn’t be used to discredit her, it might not have been entered into evidence. Hillary Rodham the lawyer wouldn’t want to give the court, and the district attorney something that would add to the credibility of the witness against her client. Maybe the psychologist reported back he wasn’t able to do the exam.

    In 2007, Shelton apparently told Glenn Thrush, who was then a reporter for Newsday, that she felt Clinton “was just doing her job” by representing Taylor. Seven years later, in 2014, she told the Daily Beast she was misquoted and that “Hillary Clinton took me through hell.” </blockquote. She could have felt both things, and by 2014 she had seen the old interview with Hillary Rodham Clinton about the case and learned some more about what she did.

    Clinton merely said in the affidavit that she had “been informed” of these things about Shelton, but offered no source or proof. Shelton told Thrush in 2007 that she was shocked by the affidavit because “it’s not true” and she had “never said anybody attacked my body before, never in my life.”

    Informed means there was somebody she could cite, who, whoever, was not willing to swear out an affidavit.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  239. @SarahW: Hillary is not “survivable.”

    I agree, and hope to be proven wrong. If Patterico is right about that then it will be a better world.

    But I don’t think both his job and his blog can survive a Clinton administration. The person who demands he shut it down will not be highly placed; it will be a low level functionary seeking to please one slightly higher up.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  240. My #nevertrump calculation is that the American people had 24 years to laugh Hillary out of political life and they did not. She is not inevitable but neither is she an aberration.

    Trump is an aberration. A snake-oil salesman, a buffoon, something dredged up from the sewers of Manhattan. It would be a far worse thing for the institution of the Presidency to put him in the White House than it would be to put Hillary in the White House.

    Of course, the best thing would be to put them both on a rocket ship to Mars ….

    nk (dbc370)

  241. Yes, with a few exceptions, I do, Dustin. But I don’t claim otherwise.

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  242. Hey Rasmussen has Trump ahead. Must be an outlier.

    The full results from Sunday night’s debate are in, and Donald Trump has come from behind to take the lead over Hillary Clinton.

    The latest Rasmussen Reports White House Watch national telephone and online survey shows Trump with 43% support among Likely U.S. Voters to Clinton’s 41%. Yesterday, Clinton still held a four-point 43% to 39% lead over Trump, but that was down from five points on Tuesday and her biggest lead ever of seven points on Monday.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  243. There’s a lot of stuff they know about Hillary too. The media is aware of its role in the election, is aware of the power it has, and intends to use it on behalf of only one side.

    NBC sources told TMZ that executives knew about the bombshell 2005 tape long before they say they did, but they elected to hold off leaking it because they did not want it to come too early in the race. The tape was reported first by the Washington Post on Oct. 7, two days before Hillary Clinton and Trump’s town hall debate, and it dominated the news cycle through the weekend.

    According to TMZ, some at NBC feared that Hurricane Matthew coverage would crowd out reaction to the tape and wanted to hold it until the day after the debate, but others did not like waiting, so it was leaked to the Washington Post.

    Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc)

  244. Gabriel Hanna (4b5ebc) — 10/13/2016 @ 6:43 am

    My calculation has been, if Hillary gets 269 or less there is a possibility to avoid Trump AND Hillary, but if she gets 270 or more there is no chance of avoiding Hillary.

    That’s correct. And I’ll add, that if both she and Trump get less than 270, we almost certainly will avoid Trump, but might not avoid Hillary.

    The #NeverTrump calculation is, if Hillary gets 270 or more there is no possibility of having Trump but if she gets 269 or less there is a good chance we will get Trump.

    Almost no chance at all, unless Trump gets at least 280 to 290. (between 270 and 280 or so, enough Trump Electors will defect to Johnson or McMullin to pull Trump below 270. Don’t expect any Democratic electors to defect. At most, one will, which has been the rule in past elections.)

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  245. Evan McMullin is likely to carry Utah, when all is said and done…

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/441012/evan-mcmullin-gains-ground-utah-polls

    …but that’s taking 6 Electoral votes away from the Republican base. It doesn’t help pull Hillary Clinton below 270.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  246. Trump is for people who give belladonna to babies.

    Oh, you want to know what belladonna is. Maybe you know it better as Deadly Nightshade.

    nk (dbc370)

  247. Both baby boomer candidates are pigs. One pig has been feeding at the public trough for decades plotting and planning to takeover the barnyard with the help of all the other animals that have grown to depend on the access and scraps she’s fed them. The other pig has been gorging himself without regard for anyone else until realizing the barnyard would never be the same unless somebody took a stand. Our choice is what kind of barnyard do we want to live in.

    crazy (d3b449)

  248. Trump has been on TV for a decade. Trump’s been running for a year. He has been the candidate for months. NOW we hear this? The timing is strange.

    Besides, using the Democrat’s previously stated rules, it’s just sex. Or you drag a dollar…. or something.

    I don’t like Trump, but I abhor Hillary.

    Loren (66de82)

  249. > Or, dreaming the dream, California. If voters thought they were choosing there between Hillary and ROMNEY rather than Trump (who will lose by 40% in California and Massachusetts), the electoral college thing might work.

    In theory, maybe, but given how strongly Romney was blown out here in 2012, I think it’s really unlikely that he draws enough support away from Hillary to come out on top.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  250. 233. nk (dbc370) — 10/13/2016 @ 5:49 am

    Bob Dylan got the Nobel Prize in Literature. Good to know that there is one thing that has been degraded even more than the U.S. Presidency has. Or is it?

    It really was Bob Dylan!

    I think the Nobel Peace Prize is worse. It went to the person who made a peace agreement with the FARC, an agreement that wa s(Obarely) rejected by the voters in Colombia.

    Usually, the “good people” tend to support human rights and be against impunity.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  251. 254. Johnson should have ran a blatantly NM-centric campaign, promised la naca gorda Secy of State, and gotten that 5 to somewhat cancel out McMull’s 6. Him and McMullin could have rendered the interior west and AK possibly into a crazy patchwork quilt that would have denied both Clinton and Trump 270.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  252. I would probably agree if it had been for poetry.

    “There must be some kind of way out of here,”
    Said the joker to the thief,
    “There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief.
    Businessmen – they drink my wine
    Plowmen dig my earth
    None will level on the line
    Nobody of it is worth.”

    A verse that surpasses

    The farting horse will never tire;
    The farting man the man’s to hire.

    nk (dbc370)

  253. http://lawnewz.com/video/the-truth-about-clintons-handling-of-kathy-shelton-rape-case/

    Before the case went to trial, state investigators lost crucial evidence, including portions of the defendant’s underwear that contained blood stains and semen

    I heard an allegation n the radio on the sean Hannity show by an associate of Kathy Shelton (her lawyer?) that state investigators didn’t “lose” it – when it was turned over to her Hillary Rodham Clinton destroyed it. I don’t know any more.

    I think the truth may be somewhere in between. That is, somebody associated with defendant either destroyed the evidence or arranged for it to be destroyed, possibly by bribery, but I would doubt Hillary Rodham took a scissors to it herself and cut it out with her own hands. Even if she wasn’t all that iimportant a dramatis personae at the time.

    This website also saysd:

    Clinton also found an expert witness in New York state that was willing to provide testimony that would cast doubt on the remaining blood and semen evidence available in the case.

    An expert like that probably didn’t come cheap, or would it for free only if someone could call on him for aery very big favor.

    This is like the O. J. Simpson case already.

    There has to be a lot more to this case, than just some ordinary lawyer starting out, and Hillary Rodham wasn’t picked at random. It must have been deeply tied into Arkansas politics.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  254. The New York Daily News front headline tried to make Donad Trump into something of pedophile, but if you read it closely, you see that is not the case.

    The video in question was not an outtake captured by ahot mike but was broadcast in 1992.

    “Entertainment Tonight” did a Christmas special that year in the Trump Tower. Donald Trump, aged 46, makes a cameo appearance and asks a group of 10-year old girls if they are going to take the escalator.

    One girl says “Yes!”

    Donald Trump then says: “I’m going to be dating her in 10 years. Can you believe it?”

    The Daily News article by Graham Rayman then described that as sickening.

    In 1992, Donald Trump was in his greatest womanizing period.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  255. sammy,

    please do not talk about Hillary’s underwear. Haven’t we been through enough?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  256. what are the sanctions for this type of false accusation,

    https://mobile.twitter.com/laissez_claire/status/786495428325801985

    narciso (d1f714)

  257. In theory, maybe, but given how strongly Romney was blown out here in 2012, I think it’s really unlikely that he draws enough support away from Hillary to come out on top.

    aphrael (3f0569)

    Romney lost largely because of a failed GOTV operation, and his was far better than Trump’s will be. And Romney was polling much better too. That’s what folks should understand. Hillary is going to outperform her polling because the democrats have their act together when it comes to ground operations, and they have advantages from their associations with Google and the media. Fair or not (and it’s not) the GOP would need to be winning handily to break even.

    Gabriel is talking about a 269 electoral vote strategy as though Hillary isn’t headed for a crushing victory in every swing state.

    Focus on the house. Donate and volunteer to your local Republican congressman. Almost everyone interested in politics has someone they can help, and that’s what could make the difference. The GOP may not be able to literally dump Trump off the ticket, but they can dump Trump by focusing everything on the race that still matters.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  258. hermione wasn’t fooling many,

    https://twitter.com/diana_west_/status/786572942364676096

    narciso (d1f714)

  259. narciso,

    That tweet does not make the accusation false. Hands like an octopus is a comment I’ve heard a few times and it’s not that unusual for a groping victim to say.

    Trump bragged about doing this TO NBC, and then ran for president as a Republican. He had to know this would happen. If he really is being framed, he sure helped it happen and must be the most idiotic tactician in world history. But come on, the guy is a fiend when it comes to women and we all know it. He can’t even keep his hands off his own daughter. This is a sick man. I’m running out of forks to stick in the guy.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  260. compared to client no 9, or john ensign, who paid off his mistress’s family, or mark sanford, who exactly is the nadir,

    narciso (d1f714)

  261. “Like an octopus”; “hands everywhere”; “I can’t believe you only have two hands”; are very common expressions for groping.

    nk (dbc370)

  262. who exactly is the nadir

    I’ll take that lady whose house was demolished to make a parking lot for limos after she was paid one fifth of its value by Trump and his crooked casino politician buddies, Alex.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  263. @Dustin:Gabriel is talking about a 269 electoral vote strategy as though Hillary isn’t headed for a crushing victory in every swing state.

    Would you like to avoid that crushing victory Dustin? Then you need to help America focus on what’s wrong with Hillary, because the media won’t do that and doesn’t want it done.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  264. No, he never managed to take it, the loser. Or build his casino. Cause he’s a loser that gets beaten by old ladies.

    nk (dbc370)

  265. @Dustin:I’ll take that lady whose house was demolished to make a parking lot for limos after she was paid one fifth of its value by Trump and his crooked casino politician buddies, Alex.

    Yep, it’s the government that does that, thanks to the leftist judges on the Supreme Court who were just fine and dandy with it in Kelo.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  266. @nk:No, he never managed to take it, the loser.

    Her heirs sold it for less, in the end, than she’d have got from Trump. But that’s not the point. The point is she didn’t want to sell, and it was wrong for Atlantic City to try to force her.

    But the left faction of the Supreme Court agrees that Atlantic City has the right to do things like that.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  267. Dustin (ba94b2) — 10/13/2016 @ 8:18 am

    please do not talk about Hillary’s underwear.

    The male defendant’s underwear, which had been turned over to her for independent testing.

    Someone now associated with Kathy Shelton said on the Sean Hannity radio show, and it didn’t sound it was the first time she was saying it, because she was very brief about it, said it was Hillary Rodham who cut out the parts that had the evidence, and not state investigators.

    I don’t know what her evidence is, but the idea makes a lot of sense, except it probably would have been somebody else, and not Hillary Rodham personally, who cut it out before sending it to be tested. The question is: How likely is it that the state investigators made a bad mistake unintentionally and discarded that evidence?

    That actually probably wasn’t all the forensic evidence, so there’s more to this story than just getting rid of the worst evidence.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  268. Dragging things out of the gutter…
    Everyone is focused on the lewdness, that very little has been said about other things.

    For instance about how Trump in the last debate said he would replace Obamacare with a hugely expanded Medicaid program via block grants to the states to cover middle class people who can’t afford insurance on their own. In other words, making a key part of Obamacare even bigger.

    Kishnevi (86e9bc)

  269. @Kishnevi:In other words, making a key part of Obamacare even bigger.

    We can count on Hillary for the same.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  270. Kishnevi (86e9bc) — 10/13/2016 @ 8:42 am

    Trump in the last debate said he would replace Obamacare with a hugely expanded Medicaid program via block grants to the states to cover middle class people who can’t afford insurance on their own.

    Democrats oppose block grants. One good argument they could have is hat block grant might be too small.

    And means testing is a horrible thing. Donald Trump has no understanding of that, and his only specific proposal is competition across state lines. He has no ideas. He claims that would make plans very great. No thoughts at all about how market works, or about what’s wrong.

    He said he wants to replace bamacare with “something absolutely much less expensive and something that works, where yur plan can actually be tailored….You will have the finest health care plan there is.”

    He doesn’t realize you need competition, not between insurance companies, but at the point of sale. And getting something like that to work right requries the kind of brilliance of those who drafted the U.S. constituution.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  271. well a block grant doesn’t impose a mandate,

    narciso (d1f714)

  272. Mr. Trump way way back in the day (many many moons ago when russian philosopher Mikhail Bakhtin yet walked this earth) yes yes yes he liked the nightlife he liked to boogie

    but with age comes wisdom as they say, and today on any given evening you’re much more likely to find Mr. Trump with his nose in a book than getting busy on the dance floor

    that’s the way uh-huh uh-huh he likes it

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  273. Would you like to avoid that crushing victory Dustin? Then you need to help America focus on what’s wrong with Hillary, because the media won’t do that and doesn’t want it done.

    Gabriel Hanna

    There are many things I would like to avoid that I know I can’t, and that realism allows me to focus on the things I can change.

    But more importantly, internet discussion threads are not political activism and it’s a little tedious how folks take these comments so seriously, as though we’re soldiers fighting some sort of war with our arguing about politics. This is entertainment. Most of us spend plenty of time doing this, and it sure beats watching TV, but it doesn’t change things in the real world. The time to stop Hillary was in the GOP primary, and it didn’t happen. Trump’s fans wanted more than anything to crush the conservatives, and they got what they wanted.

    We can’t rub our hands together and plot an electoral college change, but if the GOP wanted to preserve something it should focus on the House, which is what Paul Ryan is indeed doing.

    It seems you’re not understanding the true nature of things on a number of levels, both Hillary’s situation and ours as commenters on the internet.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  274. Mr. Trump way way back in the day (many many moons ago when russian philosopher Mikhail Bakhtin yet walked this earth) yes yes yes he liked the nightlife he liked to boogie

    but with age comes wisdom as they say, and today on any given evening you’re much more likely to find Mr. Trump with his nose in a book than getting busy on the dance floor

    that’s the way uh-huh uh-huh he likes it

    happyfeet

    Ah yes, those youthful indiscretions when Trump was in his 60s and on his third wife and palled around with human traffickers, bragging about grabbing women because he was so rich they would be scared of saying no. He learned a lot about life and then settled down.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  275. omg you’re so relentlessly negative

    this is why bakeries

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  276. Carbs are bad.

    🙂

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  277. yeah this is true

    but i got up early and baked sammins for lunch

    (i am On The Ball is why)

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  278. That sounds good. The wife is out of town and I’m eating what I damn well please. Which does involve carbs.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  279. #Pussywhipped #Whiletehcatsaway

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  280. More weird ideas:

    Let’s say that the election goes Trump 271 Clinton 267. On the morning of the vote, six GOP electors announce that they will be voting for Romney. What, if anything, does Hillary instruct her electors to do?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  281. #DomesticatedMan

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  282. #Pussywhipped #Whiletehcatsaway

    Colonel Haiku

    Hahaha. I’m a realist and I know what side of the delicious bread the delicious butter is on.

    You have been grumpier than ever lately. You don’t happen to be made of green felt and live in a garbage can, do you?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  283. 290
    Find three Trump electors to bribe or blackmail.
    Trump will looking for six Clinton electors he can bribe or blackmail while threatening to sue the the Traitors.

    Kishnevi (86e9bc)

  284. recall abbott was kept out of australia, to make room for gilliard, exactly in that type of motion,

    narciso (d1f714)

  285. parliament, that would be a solon level error, like saying hezbollah was kicked out of lebanon,

    narciso (d1f714)

  286. Kevin, it’s so hard for me accept that premise that the election is close. Trump is as close to pervert Hitler as we’ve ever come, and America is getting ready to reject him and everyone who actually likes him.

    But supposing Hillary was tied with Trump because of a few defecting Trump fans, she would probably try to encourage just a couple more to defect, sue for recounts wherever she can, and use the dirt she has on congressmen to seal the deal if it actually goes to the house.

    But it’s not going to come to that. If Hillary loses every toss-up and swing state she would have close to 267 electoral votes. She’s going to win all those states and be ahead by over 80 electors.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  287. narciso, let’s interpret that video correctly: Feingold is overpromising results to a left wing audience while neatly passing the buck for his promises to Hillary. The recording doesn’t actually prove anything about Hillary’s plans. Both Hillary and Trump favor more gun control, but it’s a political loser and Hillary is going to be cautious about third rail issues because she really doesn’t care about political change. She just wants the power. She’s not Obama and won’t take a lot of risks.

    O’Keefe’s videos are great because they show a lot of folks on the left are happy to steal votes or actually ban things that are our rights, but they aren’t exactly recordings of smoke filled power broker conference rooms.

    The headlines get donations, but they aren’t accurate.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  288. actually it confirms what she has said before about the australian and british solutions, keep chasing squirrels, and you’ll end up with a confiscation order,

    narciso (d1f714)

  289. I want a Maserati with Scarlet Johansen in the passenger seat. If Obama could not do it, Hillary will not be able to do it.

    nk (dbc370)

  290. #HighMaintenance

    Colonel Haiku (f00165)

  291. I was groped. – Jessica Leeds – 35 years ago.
    I was groped on my 100th birthday! – Statue of Liberty, 1986
    I was groped in my dreams. – Hillary Rodham, nightly.
    I am Spartacus. – Tony Curtis.

    “Can I get ya anything? Coffee? Tea? Me?” – Cynthia [Joan Cusack] ‘Working Girl’ 1988

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  292. JVW-
    You have a good point,
    But as long as a politician is a D,
    The media and culture will protect and destroy opposition as possible,
    So even if popularity is low,
    You will never know it by looking at the media,
    And the R’s will know that and fear that,

    At least that is my expectation and why I think Clinton is unthinkable,
    Trump has women to rape and obstruct justice, nations to plunge into war, national security to compromise, and US diplomats to get killed before he is as bad as Clinton.
    That is how I see it.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  293. happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/13/2016 @ 9:12 am

    but with age comes wisdom as they say, and today on any given evening you’re much more likely to find Mr. Trump with his nose in a book than getting busy on the dance floor

    I don’t think a book. He still doesn’t read them, apparently.

    A magazine article, perhaps, or watching a TV show, or talking to someone. He can’t do more.

    But you are right. This thing seems to have stopped. All these stories seem to be from before 2005.

    Only he wouldn’t say when it stopped, when asked. Trump had said or somebody (Giuliani I think) had said for him that the campaign changed him – meaning really when he began his campaign. Anyway, so “Jeff from Ohio” asked him when. Like as if maybe it wasn’t in June when he announced, but maybe in September or October of last year hat he stopped with all that. But he wouldn’t say anything about when this “locker room talk” had stopped. He didn’t really want to admit it had gone on.

    Actually it probably stopped much earlier than 2015, (what does Giuliani know?) and his acting out even earlier, but he didn’t really want to admit how long and how much he had been doing it. It probably got really intense around 1985 or 1986 when Ivana was reaching her expiration date for him, and continued at least through the early part of his relationship with Melania. It also went one maybe befgore his marriage to Ivana.

    In the 2005 tape, he doesn’t touch a woman and he says about what he does do:

    Melania says this is OK

    So anything beyond that was over by 2005.

    His twitter habit, on the other hand, continues in full force.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  294. Dustin (ba94b2) — 10/13/2016 @ 9:23 am

    Ah yes, those youthful indiscretions when Trump was in his 60s and on his third wife and palled around with human traffickers, bragging about grabbing women because he was so rich they would be scared of saying no. He learned a lot about life and then settled down.

    Look what he actually did in 2005. He was speaking about the past – and quite possibly lying, too. You can see what little he actually did then, saying

    Melania says this is OK

    We don’t seem to have anything from after 2005, but there’s plenty before. But there should actually more preserved video from after 2005 than before, and it would be fresher in people’s memories. So he maybe he really did settle down.

    Now maybe he said “Melania says this is OK” because being out in public it might come to her attention, but in private he would still do things likehe discussed, but it does seem to be over.

    When he had affairs while he was married to Ivana and Marla Maples, ot became known. But now we have nothing. Nothing from the last ten years. The Howard Stern show went off terresterial radio in December, 2005.

    Of course Melania might now also be said to be reaching her expiration date, but he’s older now.

    Look at this report:

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/timeline-of-trumps-creepiness-while-he-owned-miss-universe-w444634

    It’s all really up to 2005.

    In 2009, he wants women to rate each other for beauty. Maybe he’s still rating women in a beauty contest for how attractive they are to him, but he does seem to want to pay attention to other people’s opinions, because this is a business.

    In 2010 he speaks about what he did years before to make the women look more desirable.

    In 2013, it’s about they way they speak.

    So it’s definitely over by 2010.

    In 2015 – the only news is, he had made that comment about people Mexico allegedly was “sending” and all the people involved in his besuty pageant dropped out.

    Sammy Finkelman (e3cf91)

  295. @20-All a smokescreen to obscure the fact that most of the Democrats With Bylines – aka news media – will continue to refuse to report on the plethora of damaging factual information – not speculation, mind you – on Hillary Clinton. I’ll give a flip when I start reading , watching, hearing fair, even-handed and equitable news coverage.

    They’ll call you Flipper. ‘No one you see, is smarter than he.’

    “You know, those rumors about you and lady friends… they won’t do you a bit of harm.” – President Art Hockstader [Lee Tracy] ‘The Best Man’ 1964

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  296. So it’s definitely over by 2010.

    Sammy, this is one of those times you think you’ve proven something that is mere opinion or theory. Not that I think it really matters. What matters isn’t the sex. What matters is the ethics. Trump sees power as a way to exploit others, and he takes great joy and pride in this because he is a cruel person. I don’t think Hillary will be ethical either, of course, but is she idiotically cruel? Not really. Hillary doesn’t get inspired watching Kim Jung Il.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  297. http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2016/10/so-you-want-to-play-varsity-football.html

    Last week, the varsity team took the field;

    Three U.S. warships are operating off the coast Yemen following a guided missile attack against a UAE operated ship by Houthi rebels, two U.S. defense officials confirmed to USNI News on Tuesday.

    The ships – guided-missile destroyers USS Nitze (DDG-94), USS Mason (DDG-87) and the afloat forward staging base USS Ponce (AFSB(I)-15) – are on station off Yemen near the Bab Al Mandeb strait that links the Red Sea to the Gulf of Aden…

    Every fiber of my being operating as if this were a normal circumsance tells me to vote for the short fingered vulgarian over Satan inarnate. Yet the short fingered vulgarian makes it as hard as possible. nBeelzebub should be finding it rough going by now, but according to the polls she’s at least breaking even. Thanks to public shooling, where you can’t find Libya on a globe. H3ll, you don’t know such things as globes exist.

    I blame in large part the Republican primary candidates. They had the same oppo research. But they refused to use it. Because they wanted your votes, Trumptards. So moreover I blame the voters. Now Hillary! who could give a s**t is going to win because of your stupidity, Trumptards.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  298. Mr. Trump’s got a heart as big as Texas and a hug for anyone who’s had a bad day or a troubled feeling

    and that’s partly why i love him a lot

    the other part is cause he has a dream of a better tomorrow

    i wanna share that dream

    and I want all of you to share it too

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  299. As you all know I was originally for Scott Walker, but he faded away. Then I was for Carly Fiorina, but she faded away. Then I was for Tom Cruz but he lost to Trump. Now I’m for Trump because he’s no longer running against a conservative Republican but a leftist democrat. I’m also for Trump because he’s not the only Republican running. There are senators, states senators, Congressmen and local positions up for election and if we don’t give people a reason to vote for president they will stay home and the democrats will sweep the ballots in all 57 (ha,ha) states. So before these virtuous guys get on their high horse they need to take responsibility for the democrats taking TOTAL control of the body politic for the discernible future. Perhaps longer. That’s a one party system, like North Korea. Is that what patriotic Americans want?

    Every time they bad mouth Trump they inadvertently are bad mouthing the entire down ballot by association and unless they want the Republican turn-out for a presidential race to be the same as an off year race for dog catcher they had best get a change of attitude or be ready for that fundamental change in America. Permanently.

    They all run around saying “If the Republicans loose we blame Trump and the people who supported him”. Riiiight! Blame yourself for undermining your own candidate and your own ballot because you didn’t like the outcome of the primary. If Hillary wins every single person who did not vote for Trump helped her win. Period. Candidates win by votes, not blame.

    Trump is a vulgar, disgusting blowhard who if elected will have no friends in Congress and nothing but enemies in the news media. We used to think that was good. Hillary is a radical left neo-communist with a pathological need to lie and for power who will get whatever she wants from a compliant Congress and have a fawning media provide cover for everything she does. We used to think that was bad. Who do you think will protect our Constitutional rights? Who do you think will put a stop to importing terrorists as “refugees”? Who do you think will at least make an effort to close our borders, roll back welfare, appoint good SC justices and other judges, rebuild the military and attempt to control spending? If you don’t vote for Trump you are voting for Hillary to discard our 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th amendment rights. For Hillary to appoint three Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s and dozens of lesser leftist jurors. For Hillary to dump Israel and import moslems.

    That’s what voting is about not talking about pussy ten years ago or crassly mocking a handicapped person. This isn’t about bad manners or hurt feelings as the leftists and their willing accomplices in the media would have us think. It’s about the Idea that is America and if that Idea and the Freedom it provides stays or goes.

    There are two ways Hillary wins: if she gets enough people to vote (and steal votes) for her, or if enough people don’t vote for Trump.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  300. Oh, by the way. This is the month to commemorate the Battle off Samar.

    http://destroyerhistory.org/actions/index.asp?pid=4583

    On the morning of 23 October 1944, American submarines detected and attacked units of the Japanese fleet coming in from the South China Sea toward the precarious Leyte beachhead. A battleship-cruiser-destroyer Southern Force was decimated as it attempted to enter Leyte Gulf via Surigao Strait on the night of 24–25 October 1944. A more powerful battleship-cruiser-destroyer Center Force had been pounded by Admiral Halsey’s attack carrier planes and presumably turned back from San Bernardino Straits. Admiral Halsey then raced north with his attack carriers and heavy battleships to engage a Japanese carrier-battleship task force off Cape Engaño. This Taffy 3 as lonely sentinels east of Samar and southeast of San Bernadino Strait, on the route to Leyte Gulf.

    As enemy ships fled the Battle of Surigao Strait at daybreak on 25 October 1944, the powerful Japanese Center Force slipped through San Bernadino Strait. It steamed along the coast of Samar directly for the American invasion beachhead at Leyte, hoping to destroy amphibious shipping and American troops on shore…

    Robert Copeland, skipper of the Samuel B. Roberts, told an Admiral he’d only allow his torpedoes to be removed over his dead body. This wasn’t wrong advice; the Admiral at Pearl was suggesting an extra 40mm gun mount for escort duties. Copeland was suggesting the unthinkable. That a destroyer escort might engage a ship of the line. Because one day his admiral would forget destroyer escorts are not destroyers. And he wanted his little little boy to remain capable of doing a man’s job.

    How right he was

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  301. @Hoagie:There are two ways Hillary wins

    There’s only one way: she gets 270 electoral college votes. If that happens, zero percent chance of a Trump presidency. #NeverTrump can then rest easy; the threat from Hillary is totally overblown and Democrats always sell out their own principles to stay in power anyway, and Donald Trump will never be president and that’s the most important outcome.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  302. @311, it may be to your satisfaction, Beldar, Patterico, that Copeland was a lawyer in civilian life, as a reservist. One of the finest naval officers who ever served.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  303. http://www.samuelbroberts.org/history/

    Our ship was named after Samuel Booker Roberts Jr. who was born in San Francisco, California on May 12, 1921. He enlisted in the United States Naval Reserve on April 13, 1939 at Portland, Oregon and advanced to the rank of Coxswain. Mr. Roberts served continuously until his death on September 28, 1942. He was posthumously awarded the Navy Cross for extraordinary heroism while serving on the crew of a landing craft that, despite receiving intense enemy fire, rescued numerous stranded marines from Guadalcanal.

    The citation for the Navy Cross reads as follows:…

    As they say, read the whole thing.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  304. hf,

    It appears Trump has a big heart for the right kind of people.

    DRJ (15874d)

  305. I can’t imagine going through AOCS in this tired old 54 y.o. body.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  306. You were supporting Ted Cruz, Hoagie. Not Tom.

    DRJ (15874d)

  307. So if I vote for Evan McMullin or Gary Johnson, is that a vote for Hillary?

    DRJ (15874d)

  308. Blame yourself for undermining your own candidate

    I laugh at this. The Republican party has nominated the least favored person to ever run for President, but if the Republicans lose, it’s the fault of everyone but him.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  309. 317.You were supporting Ted Cruz, Hoagie. Not Tom.

    See how fast one is forgotten in politics.

    it’s the fault of everyone but him.

    You can laugh all you want Chuck, but he was nominated by the Republican Party as you pointed out. That means you and I were out voted by our fellow Republicans. Now you can cry like a little baby and let the Kommie Klepto Klinton win or you can gather yourself up like an adult and beat the crap out of her.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  310. You can laugh all you want Chuck, but he was nominated by the Republican Party as you pointed out. That means you and I were out voted by our fellow Republicans. Now you can cry like a little baby and let the Kommie Klepto Klinton win or you can gather yourself up like an adult and beat the crap out of her.

    Me? I’m not crying. I’m not even a Republican, I’m registered to the Libertarian party. I tend to vote Republican, though.

    I’ve asked this question many times, and haven’t noticed an answer (maybe someone did, and I didn’t notice it, I don’t read all the responses): what would Trump have to do in order for you to not vote for him? What line would he have to cross? What if the allegations of him groping women are true? Would you still vote for him? What if he really did rape a woman? Would you still vote for him? Where is the line? Murder? Child molestation? Is there anything he could that would make you not vote for him, other than not run as a Republican?

    I’m not voting for Hillary, there’s no way I would do that. But with each new revelation about Trump’s behavior and attitude, I am becoming more convinced that he is just as evil as Hillary. So, instead of voting for the lesser of two evils, I’m presented with two identical evils to choose from. I choose neither.

    Your guiding principle seems to be to elect Republicans at all costs. Fair enough. I disagree with that: I’m not going to vote for Satan just because he has an R after his name (not saying Trump is Satan, don’t jump on me for that). There is a minimum acceptable behavior for anyone who wants my vote, and Trump has sunk well below that. Apparently, he hasn’t sunk below your minimum level, wherever that happens to be.

    But that’s just at the Presidential level. I’m ok with voting Republican down-ticket. However, I will not accept the blame for Republicans up and down the ticket losing, when a minority of the Republican party nominated an utter slime ball to represent the party. That act has made the party look like a joke to the rest of the country, and THAT is what will cost down-ticket Republicans their seats.

    Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71)

  311. So if I vote for Evan McMullin or Gary Johnson, is that a vote for Hillary?

    DRJ (15874d) — 10/13/2016 @ 1:57 pm

    Yean, that’s about the size of it.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  312. TrumpenGropeGate: Four Women Say Trump Groped or Inappropriately Touched Them

    Cue Babs…

    “He touched me, he put his hand near mine
    And then he touched me
    I felt a sudden tingle when he touched me
    A sparkle, a glow

    He knew it, it wasn’t accidental
    No, he knew it
    He smiled and seem to tell me so all through it
    He knew it, I know

    He’s real, and the world is alive and shining
    I feel such a wonderful drive t’wards valentining

    He touched me
    I simply have to face the fact
    He touched me
    Control myself and try to act
    As if I remember my name

    But he touched me, he touched me
    And suddenly nothing is the same
    ‘Cause he touched me, he touched me
    And suddenly nothing, nothing, nothing is the same.” – Barbra Streisand ‘He Touched Me’ – 1966

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  313. @3223, did anyone not know this was lined up? And we’ll learn in February 2017 that none of it is true?

    Thank you, Trumptards!

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  314. You can laugh all you want Chuck, but he was nominated by the Republican Party as you pointed out. That means you and I were out voted by our fellow Republicans. Now you can cry like a little baby and let the Kommie Klepto Klinton win or you can gather yourself up like an adult and beat the crap out of her.

    Rev. Hoagie

    This is a fair enough point. But a lot of Trump’s voters were democrats trying to pick the most ridiculous guy ever. And a majority of the party definitely didn’t want Trump to be the nominee. Because he’s a democrat and all.

    Just because I participated in the GOP primary doesn’t mean I owe allegiance to the horrible outcome. Doesn’t mean I’m a little baby or a beta male or whatever else we’ll see in this thread, and the fact those kinds of arguments are employed shows just how little Trump actually offers conservatives. Other than Not Hillary, what does Trump offer me that I can believe in? I definitely don’t need a political party that insults me every five seconds.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  315. The Anderson Cooper ‘tell’: “For the record…. for the record….. for the record.” That’s peculiar language for a debate that’s already on the record.

    He knew the press had other shoes ready to drop

    Conclusion: collusion.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  316. the mcguffin, the one who just said ‘the problem with the republican party is too much racism’

    narciso (d1f714)

  317. Leads and McGillivray have already been discredited.

    Meanwhile, FWIW, Anonymous is teasing a video of BJ raping Epstein’s 13-year old. The Won is on video displaying an erection to the ladies in flight, W. when asked what he and Pere talk about reports “Pussy”, etc.

    Changing minds supposes minds to be changed.

    DNF (755a85)

  318. The Won is on video displaying an erection to the ladies in flight,

    That is one accusation Trump is absolutely safe from:
    1. He can’t get one.
    2. Even if he did, it wouldn’t show.

    nk (dbc370)

  319. food stamp got a chubby on the airplane and was like look at meeee i’m rick james

    and everyone was like no you’re just a stunted harvardtrash pothead we find useful and for your information that erection you’re waggling about is michelle’s only job now cause she left her phony hospital one

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  320. 330. Likely. Another reason to work out daily. Twenty two minutes of aerobic exercise daily is a minimum but the health benefits are still rising rapidly with 2 hours of strenuous exercise daily.

    DNF (755a85)

  321. Dustin you’ve made your point and I’ve made mine. At this late date nobody’s changing anybody’s mind. Honestly, I didn’t expect to. It’s just that during the primary a couple guys here really thought I was for Trump. I don’t know if they were kidding with me or seriously trying to bust my stones but once all that was left was Trump I finally and reluctantly coalesced.

    My argument had nothing to do with “beta males” or emasculating anybody for not voting Trump. My argument, in case you missed it, is that by bad mouthing Trump you are in effect running off voters who we need to win the down ballots. Experience should tell you that turn out in non-presidential elections is low so if you convince people not to vote for Trump it becomes a non-presidential election for people de facto. Therefore, we can’t help but loose voters which will impact other races. That is my point.

    So I believe if Trump looses you can blame Trump, his supporters, the GOP or global warming for all I care but when nobody shows up to vote for team Republican who do you blame? Who talked them out of voting by making it a non-presidential contest? At this point I’m not sure I’ll even bother voting. As Dana has pointed out Pennsylvania is a dem state so my vote means nothing. It’s like voting in Philly, who cares. Besides, I’m trying to buy a 1956 Desoto Firedome convertible and we are real close on price. By election I may have a new toy to occupy my time. With any luck, new lungs to go with her.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  322. nonononono

    hearts and minds Mr. Hoagie

    that’s all it ever is

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  323. exactly, hoagie who are the most motivated voters, the ones for trump,

    narciso (d1f714)

  324. Hoagie,

    This country’s left has a voice and there’s no fair system where that isn’t the case. This country’s right has been conned into voting for the ‘lesser of two evils’ by a pack of con men who will crash the party into a wall by nominating Trump before they permit a guy like Cruz to have any real power that might upset the apple cart.

    That car sounds like a fun hobby and I wish you the very best with your health. Many people across time have had awesome lives despite living with broken political systems. We are ultimately very fortunate compared to most of those people.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  325. when piggy and herpes bill drag a dollar through a trailer park

    watch the eff out

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  326. Gatewaypundit has a track record of weak reporting.

    And their link is hilarious. One accuser after another, page after page, all of them crazy. This from the same guys crying for Clinton’s accusers being called crazy. Trump has led so many down such a dark path. You guys do not know what happened but act like you do. What we do know is that Trump bragged about doing this stuff. It’s hard to imagine what he could say or do at this point to change a single vote. Those who care left a while ago, and those who haven’t will not even if videos emerge of this stuff. And don’t be surprised if some do in a week or two.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  327. because there was two interviews with juanita broderick, 17 years ago, she might as well have been an unperson, starr in retrospect, was as faithless as comey, as we discovered taking up epstein’s torch, the dems burn the house down, and scatter the ashes and get promoted for their efforts, in anchorage, in dc, in madison, yes they shut down the investigation,

    narciso (d1f714)

  328. Trump was convincingly accused of forcible rape many years ago and his lawyer’s basically conceded that the act itself occurred but was lawful due to marriage.

    so it’s not like this is an out of the blue accusation.

    And Trump confessed.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  329. Gateway Pundit is hilarious. Not Henny Youngman hillarious. Not even Pee Wee Herman hilarious. Ridiculously hilarious.

    — Dindunuffin, what could we appeal on?
    — The cop lied.
    — What did he lie about?
    — He said I was wearing an Indians baseball cap when he saw me selling that heroin.
    — And?
    — It was a Cardinals cap.

    nk (dbc370)

  330. can we established on a particular date, otherwise we’re in uva territory, you do remember uva,

    narciso (d1f714)

  331. — Dindunuffin, what could we appeal on?
    — The cop lied.
    — What did he lie about?
    — He said I was wearing an Indians baseball cap when he saw me selling that heroin.
    — And?
    — It was a Cardinals cap.

    nk

    That’s exactly what the problem is! they are whining that she got the year Trump and Melania engaged off by one, as though this means Trump didn’t confess to grabbing women and we have a bunch of women saying he grabbed them.

    This election is going to be over soon, thank goodness, and everyone who supported Trump to the end will be laughing stocks because it will be clear it wasn’t ever close and it wasn’t worth the compromises many are making.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  332. Preach it, Rev! Cyber-stroll amongst teh reprobates and help them rid themselves of mental pestilence and help them increase their level of testosterone.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  333. Many people across time have had awesome lives despite living with broken political systems. We are ultimately very fortunate compared to most of those people.

    Dustin, like the Chinese saying goes: May you live in interesting times.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  334. epleb nista, these people are trying to destroy the only system that’s been worth a tinkers, in just under 240 years, through media, education, look around, the nature of the world has been nasty brutish and short, we have been the exception, because we believed in an idea,

    narciso (d1f714)

  335. A lot of people will get screwed if illary becomes President.
    And much of it will have the “law” behind it.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)


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