Patterico's Pontifications

10/2/2016

Does Character Matter At All In This Election?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:34 pm



[guest post by Dana]

At the risk of sounding the “It’s a binary choice, stupid!” gong, I want to direct your attention to a thoughtful piece by Jeff Jacoby, who has concluded that due to the obvious lack of moral character in either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton, he cannot cast his vote for either of the candidates. It’s not simply due to his own personal sensibilities being offended. It’s far more than that.

He begins his op-ed by pointing out the obvious importance of moral character in matters of everyday life, and then asking whether we shouldn’t expect our elected officials to hold themselves to a similar standard, in both their personal and public lives. Especially those who would hold the highest office in our nation:

WOULD YOU HIRE a babysitter who lied with impunity? Would you choose a therapist who was a compulsive braggart? Would you want as your accountant or financial adviser someone who trailed the reek of corruption and bottomless avarice? Would you list your home with a real estate agent who routinely played fast and loose with rules that others must abide by? Would you attend the church of a pastor who spewed insults and threats and trafficked in delusional conspiracy theories?

If so, you’ll have no trouble supporting Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton for president.

But if you wouldn’t entrust your personal affairs to someone manifestly devoid of ethics and good character, how can you think of entrusting the nation’s highest office to either of the major-party candidates?

Clearly Jacoby sees this election as a different sort of binary choice.

I think all of us would agree that both candidates lack any discernible measure of moral clarity or integrity. Over the years both have demonstrated that they are more than willing to sink to any level necessary to promote themselves, even if it involves debasing others. And interestingly, it is women who have borne the brunt of their collective amorality.

Consider how the self-proclaimed champion of women intimidated, and threatened to destroy the lives and reputations of a long list of women who made abuse accusations against her husband. And consider the blistering bottom-line of Hillary Clinton: If given the opportunity, she said of one particular woman, she would crucify her. Yet, if anything, this election cycle has revealed these women are now more than willing to push back against Hillary Clinton the candidate. No longer are they willing to fade quietly and fearfully into the night:

untitled

Or consider Kathy Shelton, a 12-year old rape victim whose attacker Hillary Clinton chose to defend, and who not only suggested the child rape victim had romantic motives of her own, but also ended up negotiating a deal for her attacker to serve only one year in county jail for fondling a minor instead of a charge of child rape. While Clinton later laughed about the situation, Shelton, who had to have stitches “down there” as a result of the brutal attack and was rendered unable to have children, has done anything but laugh:

“Every time I see [Clinton] on TV I just want to reach in there and grab her, but I can’t do that,” she continued.

“I don’t think [Clinton’s] for women or girls. I think she’s lying, I think she said anything she can to get in the campaign and win,” Shelton said. “If she was [an advocate for women and children], she wouldn’t have done that to me at 12 years old.”

Trump also lacks a functioning moral compass or code of ethics. How else to explain a husband willingly pimping out his wife to pose nude for a men’s magazine? Even going so far as to negotiate the price for his unwilling wife to bare it all:

untitled

Jacoby makes it clear that he is voting on moral character this go-round, and not on the issues. He also points out that our nation’s foundation may face bigger and more long-term, damaging consequences as a result of the candidates that have been foisted upon us:

Of course it is, and if this were a typical election I’d be voting for the candidate whose political outlook came closest to my own.

Unfortunately, this election isn’t typical. The major parties have coughed up nominees so tainted that to vote for either one would amount to a betrayal. Our generation inherited a democratic republic that, despite all its flaws and weaknesses, was grounded in the conviction that a basic level of civic virtue is indispensable to the survival of American freedom. A vote for a candidate as dishonorable as Trump or Clinton is a vote to trash that inheritance. I can’t bring myself to do that.

The founders of the American system warned at every turn that without moral and civic virtues to navigate by, no democracy can endure. The character of government, they stressed, is inseparable from human character. “As there is a degree of depravity in mankind which requires a certain degree of circumspection and distrust, so there are other qualities in human nature which justify a certain portion of esteem and confidence,” wrote James Madison at the very end of Federalist No. 55. “Republican government presupposes the existence of these qualities in a higher degree than any other form.” In short, once good character and integrity no longer matter, government of the people is doomed.

Free elections are a uniquely, invaluable part of the American experience. They can also be ugly matters when greed, deception, corruption and vanity solely drive the bus. We are not naive children, we know this to be true. And if we believe it is true that American freedom and success depends upon a degree of moral integrity upon which to stand and draw from, how is a nation facing our current political predicament impacted by electing an individual wholly lacking any measurable degree of moral fiber? By electing either of these charlatans, do we condemn ourselves to something more far-reaching and destructive than seeing the appointment of say, activist judges?

As Jacoby points out, both Clinton and Trump “are practically defined by their cupidity, deceit, and self-righteousness,” and a host of other unenviable qualities. As such, choosing them to lead our nation might invite perhaps a more damaging set of consequences than imagined:

For Americans to elevate anyone so reprehensible to the presidency would be to humiliate themselves before the world. It would also be a sign that the great American experiment in republican self-government may have run its course.

–Dana

364 Responses to “Does Character Matter At All In This Election?”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (995455)

  2. Well there isn’t much choice. And I’m “electing” so far as in my one-vote power allows, a different sort of treatment by the press.

    Trump won’t enjoy water carriers, guardians, and volunteer advocates in the press as Hillary will. So if I have to pick, I go that way.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  3. mr. trump’s biggest sin is he’s from the wrong social class

    happyfeet (be47b7)

  4. @SarahW:Trump won’t enjoy water carriers, guardians, and volunteer advocates in the press as Hillary will. So if I have to pick, I go that way.

    Seconding this and adding that the weaponized bureaucracy will not be available to Trump either. I have no desire to see literal one-party rule ala PRI.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  5. Re: does character matter to this modern electorate?

    Recall that Democrats have imported a new electorate since 1965.
    Recall Cruz Supporter’s argument from the previous thread:

    I think each election does become the most important of our lifetime, simply because we continue to incrementally move down the wrong path.
    So in 2008 it was true, as it was in 2012, and now in 2016.
    If illary wins next month, the 2020 election will become the most important.
    Ultimately, however, there may be a tipping point when it could become next to impossible to thwart the Left at the ballot box in a presidential election due to the increased number of voters who take a check from the government, as well as due to the floodgates of immigrants who tend to become Democrat voters.

    Also, we can’t foresee events that might occur during the next 4 years.
    That’s why I entirely reject the notion that we can just concede the next 4 years to the perceived status quo administration of illary.
    There’ve been too many times in history when we “slept.”
    That’s how 9/11 came to fruition; we (that’s the Royal ‘we’) let down our guard following the devolution of the Soviet Union.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  6. Would you hire a babysitter who lied with impunity?
    ‘Don’t Tell Mom The Babysitter’s Dead’-1991

    Would you choose a therapist who was a compulsive braggart?
    ‘Analyze This’-1999

    Would you want as your accountant or financial adviser someone who trailed the reek of corruption and bottomless avarice?
    ‘The Producers’-1968

    Would you list your home with a real estate agent who routinely played fast and loose with rules that others must abide by?
    ‘Glengarry Glen Ross’-1992

    Would you attend the church of a pastor who spewed insults and threats and trafficked in delusional conspiracy theories?
    ‘Jonestown’-2013

    If so, you’ll have no trouble supporting Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton for president…

    Yep.

    Because Americans don’t want to be governed. They wish to be entertained.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. Weird that white people would both overwhelmingly dominate Hollywood and the media, and also produce these movies indoctrinating them into disregarding character while opening the doors to masses of immigrants from all cultures around the world.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  8. “Trump won’t enjoy water carriers, guardians, and volunteer advocates in the press as Hillary will.”

    Mainly because the press is an utter clown show and deserves its coming destruction.

    “Seconding this and adding that the weaponized bureaucracy will not be available to Trump either.”

    Hopefully because he fires them en masse and starts installing his supporters.

    “Because Americans don’t want to be governed. They wish to be entertained.”

    If the pursuit and exercise of real power isn’t at least periodically entertaining then you’re probably being lied to regularly.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  9. I think all of us would agree that both candidates lack any discernible measure of moral clarity or integrity. …

    I would not agree. As far as I know neither one is a convicted felon. A low bar to be sure but one that indicates some ability to conform to society’s rules.

    James B. Shearer (0dbf28)

  10. For Americans to elevate anyone so reprehensible to the presidency would be to humiliate themselves before the world. …

    That ship has sailed.

    Btw how would you compare the current candidates to say Lyndon Johnson in terms of moral character?

    James B. Shearer (0dbf28)

  11. Americans haven’t cared about character in a President since they elected BJ. The Dems proved they didn’t care when they supported him.

    J. Palmer Cass (5a4596)

  12. Off-topic: Colombian voters have rejected a peace deal with FARC rebels, a surprise outcome that risks prolonging a 52-year-old armed conflict, and in doing so tossed the peace process into chaos.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  13. I appreciate all the thought put in by the writer.

    Despite that, it doesn’t matter what you say:

    We will be left with one of the two as President. It’s irrefutable.

    Trump is better than Clinton.

    When Clinton does things down the road that you don’t agree with, remember your vote may have mattered.

    So lets stop all this nonsense and pretend that not voting because of your conscience or convictions is somehow a great thing.

    It’s not.

    Joe (59140e)

  14. I think all of us would agree that both candidates lack any discernible measure of moral clarity or integrity.

    I would not agree. As far as I know neither one is a convicted felon. A low bar to be sure but one that indicates some ability to conform to society’s rules.

    Oh, James B. Shearer, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

    Dana (995455)

  15. Character would matter if there was any semblance of character in either candidate.

    What we have is a socialist kleptocrat vs a narcissistic sociopath. You go find character in that, I can’t.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  16. there is no peace process as we’ve discovered with the palestine authority, the guatemalan, salvadoran, argentine, chilean guerilla groups, who have won out in the end, and those that pursued the long war, have been purged, except in the case of honduras.

    narciso (d1f714)

  17. Only one candidate wants to use the presidency to outlaw most of what’s left of the moral values Mr Jacoby finds so lacking in our binary choice.

    crazy (d3b449)

  18. I don’t think there has ever been an election with such unqualified candidates. Neither would get a security clearance on their merits, for example. One is power-mad, the other is ego-mad. BOth should be immediate disqualifiers.

    Imagine instead a contest between, say, Biden and Rubio or Walker or Romney or Ryan or Fiorina. It would be about issues and directions and ideas, not about digging up dirt and who said what.

    I will not be voting for any name currently on the ballot. To do so would be to waste my vote and cause them to think that I liked my sh1t sandwich.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  19. Our binary choice:

    Double-sh1t sandwich versus triple-sh1t sandwich.

    “The only way to win is not to play”

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  20. If our enemies had conspired to destroy American’s confidence in their institutions and elections, they could not have come up with a better plan than “Trump vs Clinton.”

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  21. a fatuous notion by john badham, previously the director on saturday night fever, who became more paranoid with blue thunder, and then point of no return,

    narciso (d1f714)

  22. “Does character matter at all in this election?”

    No

    It is a vote on the evils of two lesser.

    steveg (5508fb)

  23. “The only way to win is not to play”

    That’s the definition of “quitting” not “winning”, Kevin M. Americans aren’t quitters.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  24. like maverick, he showed the way in ‘throwing the match’ and stabbing the knife in his running mate, a suspicion furthered by the jones memo,

    narciso (d1f714)

  25. The country loses if we don’t pick least evil.
    What I hear from a good number of people (and a number of good people) is a lot about putting their personal standards above the need of the nation to have the best possible leadership given the current circumstances we have.

    SarahW makes good points.
    The inside the beltway elites will fight Trump if he wins. Congress will fight him, the Press will fight him.
    Hillary wins and no one fights her.
    Every evil idea that comes to her mind will sail right through. Trump will find it hard to appoint a new WH chef without a fight

    steveg (5508fb)

  26. maverick was a mark, he got there by pushing soros projects like mccain feingold, the collaboration with the levick group re gitmo, etc etc, jacoby is usually more astute,

    narciso (d1f714)

  27. 7.Weird that white people would both overwhelmingly dominate Hollywood and the media, and also produce these movies indoctrinating them into disregarding character while opening the doors to masses of immigrants from all cultures around the world.
    Denver Guy (4750ec) — 10/2/2016 @ 3:20 pm

    White, liberal Americans are the most self destructive and self hating people in the world. Not only do they hate themselves and other white people they also hate black Americans, Christians, Jews, straights, rich people, successful people, businessmen, the military and conservatives. So quite frankly they hate the very type of people who founded and built America. The only conclusion could be they must really hate America. Hence the so-called “fundamental change”. So why the hell don’t they leave already?

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  28. A new Government Accountability Office report showed that one in five big companies don’t pay any income taxes, according to CNN Money.
    CNN Money reported that the GAO’s analysis found that before 2012, 24 percent of profitable large corporations owed no income tax in 2011, 22 percent owed nothing in 2010 and 21 percent owed nothing in 2009.

    The analysis said that many of the reasons corporations owed no income tax were because of tax deductions for losses in previous years, depreciating assets that they were able to write off, and offshore profits that haven’t been brought back to the United States.

    Of the large corporations that did have to pay income taxes that year, they owed a total of $268 billion.

    In the years between 2008-2012, large corporations paid only 22 percent of their income in U.S. corporate income taxes after foreign, state, local taxes were included, a figure well below the 35 percent top corporate income tax rate.

    Just in the past year, 27 companies on the Standard & Poor’s 500 paid nothing in income taxes, USA Today reported.

    Some of these companies included Level 3 Communications, United Continental Airlines, and General Motors.

    Character isn’t an American strength.

    DNF (ffe548)

  29. 19. #nevertrump asks more of others than of themselves.

    DNF (ffe548)

  30. President Obama did not personally respond to Benghazi on the night of the attack until more than six hours after the White House convened an emergency conference call, according to little-noticed State Department records reviewed by Breitbart News.
    Obama’s six-hour absence, during which the United States military did not have presidential orders to enter Libyan airspace to potentially save Americans, was apparently not interrupted by Hillary Clinton.

    A State Department Operations Center Watch Log noted that the White House convened a “NOIWON” at 1621 Military Time, or 4:21 PM Eastern Time, on September 11, 2012 to respond to the developing “attack” on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya.

    “1621 The White House Situation Room convened a NOIWON, on behalf of the Watch, in which INR also participated, to report on an attack on the Diplomatic Mission in Benghazi,” according to the records.

    “NOIWON” stands for “National Operational Intelligence Watch Officer’s Network.” A historycommons.org article on the 9/11 attacks defines NOIWON:

    A National Operations and Intelligence Watch Officer Network (NOIWON) conference call is established to allow government agencies in the Washington, DC, area to quickly share information regarding the ongoing events.

    But despite the White House acknowledging the emergency, Obama is nowhere to be found in the Watch records.

    The “ExecSec,” or Executive Secretary in the office of the Secretary of Defense, “visited the Watch” at 1635, or 4:35 PM.

    The Watch sent out three targeted alerts to various government agencies within the first hour.

    Finally, at 2227, or 10:27 PM, President Obama shows up in the Watch Log records.

    “2227 The Watch patched President Obama to the Secretary,” according to the records. The “Secretary” refers to Hillary Clinton.

    The secret records were obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request by attorney Mark Zaid on behalf of the group Veterans For a Strong America.

    “This is the watch log created by the State Department. The State Department has an operations center, and they maintain a log of all actions and communications that take place. This is the watch log, the record of communication, going in and out of the operations center,” Joel Arends, chairman of Vets For a Strong America, told Breitbart News.

    “For the president of the United States to have not interjected himself sooner in this process is a tragedy,” Arends said, noting that only President Obama could have obtained permission from the Libyan transitional government to use their airspace to send in the U.S. military.

    “Why did it never happen? Where was the president during this time?…He should have known that we had to request a formal order from the Libyan government to enter into their airspace,” Arends said.

    Arends thinks that Hillary Clinton should have intervened to find Obama.

    “Let’s ask the same questions of the Secretary herself. She’s a lawyer. Why wasn’t she pushing the president to fly Why did she never request presidential permission for our forces to fly into Libyan airspace?” Arends asked.

    DNF (ffe548)

  31. Oops, problems with cut and paste.

    DNF (ffe548)

  32. The founders of the American system warned at every turn that without moral and civic virtues to navigate by, no democracy can endure.

    It’s 2016. And which 1776 ‘Founding Philanderer’ would that be: Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson, to name just two.

    ‘Mustang Sally’ – Wilson Pickett, 1967

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. Well this is a little awkward. With the leaked 1995 Trump tax returns ‘scandal’ focused on the billionaire’s yuuge “net operating loss” and how it might have ‘legally’ enabled him to pay no taxes for years, we now discover none other than Hillary Rodham Clinton utilized a $700,000 “loss” to avoid paying some taxes in 2015.

    DNF (ffe548)

  34. Pensioners around the world should take note of the controversial new legislation being considered by the UK Parliament’s Work and Pensions Select Committee that would allow private businesses to cut pension costs by suspending contractual inflation-linked benefit increases. Of course, this could be just a crucial first step in the long journey toward cutting pension benefits and finally admitting that many defined benefit pension plans around the globe are nothing more than insolvent, ponzi schemes.

    Committee Chairman Frank Field told the Financial Times that the goal of the proposed legislation is to simply create an environment that helps insure the “survival” of defined benefit pension plans for now “which gives you flexibility in the longer run.”

    “We should make clear our aim, with any policy changes, is the primary goal of safeguarding, in the best possible form, DB pension schemes,” Mr Field said ahead of the launch of the inquiry into defined benefit schemes.

    “The aim is survival now, which gives you flexibility in the longer run,” he said.

    Mr Field said his committee would look at what is required to “help create a climate of opinion so scheme trustees would naturally think about introducing flexibility on benefits”, primarily on inflation-matching increases.

    The veteran Labour MP said that while it might be difficult for trustees to negotiate flexibility, they should insist they have the right to reverse any agreement on reducing inflation rises “if and when better times come”.

    “That might be the price for survival now,” said Mr Field.

    DNF (ffe548)

  35. “Brexit means Brexit”, and now we know that it also means March 2017, according to a much anticipated Article 50 timetable revealed today by the UK’s new prime minister.

    After weeks of speculation on the UK’s timetable for invoking Article 50, and eventually exiting the EU, Prime Minister Theresa May today announced she’ll begin the U.K.’s withdrawal from the European Union in the first quarter of 2017, ending speculation about the start of the 2-year Brexit process.

    During the Conservative Party’s annual conference in Birmingham, May told delegates that she’ll invoke Article 50 of the EU’s Lisbon Treaty, the formal trigger for two years of talks, before the end of March. The premier also said she’ll introduce a bill next year to convert all existing EU laws into U.K. legislation on the day that Brexit is completed to provide certainty for business and investors, Bloomberg reported.

    “We should not let things drag on too long; having voted to leave, I know that the public will soon expect to see, on the horizon, the point at which Britain does formally leave the European Union,” May said cited by the BBC. “There will be no unnecessary delays in invoking Article 50. We will invoke it when we are ready. And we will be ready soon. We will invoke Article 50 no later than the end of March next year.”

    DNF (ffe548)

  36. Those who say “it’s a binary choice” are spreading falsehoods. It is never a binary choice when it comes to voting. The outcome may be binary, but the choice never is.

    “For whom much is given, much is demanded.” — a very wise one

    Not only must the moral character of the “leader of the Free World” be at least as good as that of the babysitter, it must be higher than that of practically every other secular office-holder. Anything less is abominable.

    John Hitchcock (2dbce8)

  37. And someone needs to curtail DNF’s Great Walls Of Text.
    Seriously.

    John Hitchcock (2dbce8)

  38. Please, grace us with more scattershot copypasta, DNF.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  39. yes, I don’t trust theresa particularly, she stowed away late in the game,

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-02/brexit-means-march-theresa-may-will-invoke-article-50-first-quarter-2017

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. it has been more than four years, and the dss operations center tape is as scarce as the city of el dorado,

    narciso (d1f714)

  41. Seconding this and adding that the weaponized bureaucracy will not be available to Trump either. I have no desire to see literal one-party rule ala PRI.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a) — 10/2/2016 @ 3:04 pm

    LOL WUT. Of course they will be! They’ll be happy to implement all the liberal things that he and Clinton agree on, and even on things they don’t, because the bureaucracy loves its power. And Trump will be happy to oblige.

    Hopefully because he fires them en masse and starts installing his supporters.

    Dystopia Max (76803a) — 10/2/2016 @ 3:32 pm

    LOL WUT. He CAN’T. Its illegal.

    I can superficially buy the argument that Trump would be better than Clinton. I disagree of course, I believe they will be worse, just in different ways. Honestly I can’t say for sure which would be worse overall after 4 years.

    But what I can’t buy is the idea that Trump will be good in any sense, or that we should shill for him. Its funny on the outside to watch people argue for a liberal Democrat, because he says “tough” things and has an “R” after his name.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (dd9551)

  42. find, I don’t take up the case, for trump, just against red queen and her minions, who will infest this entire government like a facehugger colony,

    narciso (d1f714)

  43. Mr. Trump make you feel beautiful and loved

    but piggy make you feel so damn unpretty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  44. It’s actually a good thing that Mr. Feet doesn’t vote.

    It gives his commentary the value it merits.

    Character does matter. Unfortunately, name calling and vulgarity seems to be rewarded.

    Simon Jester (485863)

  45. Clarice recounting the Fluke affair:

    This year’s appeal to such dimwits and overweight women voters — through the Machado fandango — is that Trump “fat shamed” the gal — another un-PC act in media circles where half-dressed sylphs in revealing cleavage and plenty of leg read the news and heavily made up slender 13-year-old girls in bikinis grace magazine covers.

    Unfortunately, few outside the Internet know the story is 100% false, and there’s plenty of contemporaneous evidence to prove that — even if one assumes this takes precedence over Hillary’s and Obama’s failures in substantive matters. (I really do think journalism students should be required to take a course called “How to Google”.) The New York Times, by way of example, ran this headline “Shocked and Angry: Alicia Machado, a Miss Universe Mocked by Donald Trump”.

    DNF (ffe548)

  46. 38. Not mine, apart from a fat finger here and there, but excerpts from people demonstrating reasoning from facts.

    #nevertrump expects simple opinion to persuade, not inform, not induce cogitation, just bludgeon with repetition of inanities persuing catharsis.

    DNF (ffe548)

  47. the great American experiment in republican self-government may have run its course.

    It did that about 7 1/2 years ago when the voters elected a man with no credentials except those he hid, like Bill Ayres, Reverend Wright and his college transcripts.

    Now the question is whether to let Hillary dance on its grave.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  48. Getting back to the point, I saw this over at Ace’s place. It’s from CNN in 1995.

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4351026/clinton-1995-immigration-sotu

    I would like the press to ask Secretary Clinton her thoughts on the person saying those things. In addition, I would like to know if any of the applauding people are still in Congress. Perhaps they should be asked their opinions.

    Character matters.

    Simon Jester (485863)

  49. 45. What good is an education?

    DNF (ffe548)

  50. exactly this jacobin mentality, which the founding generation luckily didn’t have to deal with,is the real threat, if you can’t get that from the last eight years,

    narciso (d1f714)

  51. Patterico is getting tiring. Yes, we get that you viscerally hate Trump.

    Well, I don’t like him either. But, I’m voting for him as the only thing I can do to help.

    Yes, it is a binary election. Not voting does not improve things.

    #NeverTrumpers seem to be engaged in the same sort of virtue signalling we keep seeing on the left. I can find no other explanation for their failure to appreciate that it *is* a binary election, at least for anyone who cares about the consequences.

    John Moore (508b53)

  52. 52. Nice distillation, esp. “virtue signalling”.

    DNF (ffe548)

  53. Bourgeois pretension.

    DNF (ffe548)

  54. 38. Actually I thought DNF was writing an updated version of Billy Joel’s We Didn’t Start the Fire.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  55. well the new right, the tea party, and now this fusionist movement, seems to bewilder the conventional wisdom,

    narciso (d1f714)

  56. #NeverTrumpers seem to be engaged in the same sort of virtue signalling we keep seeing on the left. I can find no other explanation for their failure…

    95% of Jewish donors support Hillary Clinton. Maybe there is another explanation here than principled conservatism. I’m not suggesting corruption; I’m suggesting some psychological variable. Maybe they’re viscerally frightened by Trump because he comes across as a strong man, one with German background (and proud of it, no less).

    So they’re going to put a known national security felon into the White House, who wants to flood the country with Islamic refugees. This is, ironically, what is turning both Europe and America to the far right as an answer to this.

    Perhaps America’s Jews should rethink their emotional reaction here, and support those who would keep America and Europe American and European, and thus not give the far right fertile ground.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  57. #37 John Hitchcock,

    You hit it on the head.
    It’s a binary outcome.

    And the outcome is what ultimately affects our lives, right?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  58. #nevertrump has subsumed the Progressive kerygma, that social darwinism marches onward from strength to strength.

    If Congress is not passing new legislation, taking over more of the economy and ordering the lives of we deplorables, the universe is out of joint.

    There only issue with the Progs is this can be accomplished Constitutionally through incremental amelioration.

    DNF (ffe548)

  59. one cannot help think that persecution of christians in the latter days, will be inevitable, and we see why because those more likely to support the former, will be outvoted by those who support the salafi,

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/214621/one-last-interview

    take this fellow, sort of their version of carter, till his dying day, he doesn’t understand the world we find ourselves,

    narciso (d1f714)

  60. John Moore @ 52,

    If you read the post, you would see that I wrote the post, not Patterico. Also, I find it tiring that people like you believe that voting Trump will actually improve things. But there you go. You don’t provide any Data to support this claim, but I am supposed to buy it. Sort of like vote for the bill so you can know what’s in it …

    Dana (995455)

  61. 61. “I find it tiring that people like you believe that voting Trump will actually improve things. ”

    #nevertrump cannot help but put words in others mouths, being incapable of parrying and thrusting.

    DNF (ffe548)

  62. Look, folks, Patterico doesn’t need the likes of me to speak up for him. He has dealt with far worse than I ever have. But when I needed someone to stand up for me, he did. It didn’t benefit him one iota. So agree or disagree with Patterico, I will always treat him with respect.

    He has earned it, and I think you all know it.

    But repeatedly, I see people insult him on his own website. The one that he pays for. And allows people acting like juvenile jackwagons to post on.

    If Patterico’s point of view upsets you so much, find somewhere else to vent your spleen.

    Insulting your host is rude behavior.

    Now, of course, will come the faux-macho protestations that no one was insulting Patterico, that one needs to stand up, etc.

    Again: being polite is not weakness, and being a jackass is not strength.

    Simon Jester (485863)

  63. you may be right, the rot is deep in the soil, and the phalanxes of the left, will probably redouble their efforts, for they have mined the ground over the last forty years, stealing the minds of the next generation, so there is only a pavlovian response, I thought drury and mccarry had overstated their case, but in truth it was an understatement,

    narciso (d1f714)

  64. Simon Jester,

    It would be helpful to correctly identify the writer of the post before launching an attack. I would like to claim my rightful impact of being tiresome to others!

    Dana (995455)

  65. DNF @ 62,

    Read his comment again.

    Dana (995455)

  66. boris johnson, made up stories early on, and had an affair with a fellow reporter, yet until the more genteel gove stabbed him in the back, he was the vanguard of brexit, now the whole enterprise is in the hands of a time server,

    narciso (d1f714)

  67. Dana, there are lots of people who have been insulting to Patterico. You, too.

    It’s part of the effect of this coarse season. And the effects will be, sadly, long lasting.

    Simon Jester (485863)

  68. real issues get lost in this soccer scrum,

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/02/majority-of-paris-attackers-used-migration-routes-to-enter-europ/

    the result of what the parliament papers revealed about libya, and the second run in syria,

    narciso (d1f714)

  69. 60. Better than Carter:

    Look, for hundreds of years, we made our living from the land. Now land is something tangible. Even mechanical. You want more land? Fight. There is no land without blood. You have to defend your borders. For there’s no land without borders. And for that reason, our history is a history of war. War was the major factor in keeping our land.

    I am asking myself, again, and I don’t know the answer: Are we going to war because we are aggressive by nature, as you said? Or are we aggressive because we have to go to war? Are we going to war because we didn’t have an alternative until science came?

    But science doesn’t take sides. And I believe that science without morality is the greatest danger in the world. Because science is neutral: It can fall into the hands of good people and bad people. It can fall into the hands of terrorists or the hands of innocent people.

    DNF (ffe548)

  70. does peres read his own book, from the phillistines, to the amalekites, to the babylonian to the assyrians, even the sabeans, who ravaged job’s homestead, it’s a tough neighborhood,

    narciso (d1f714)

  71. 66. I have, and ‘Patterico’ I take to be the blog.

    DNF (755a85)

  72. 66. Those you address as shills for Trump are not voting hoping for ‘improvements'; rather for breaks in our denouement.

    DNF (755a85)

  73. “Not only must the moral character of the “leader of the Free World” be at least as good as that of the babysitter, it must be higher than that of practically every other secular office-holder. Anything less is abominable.”

    “Ought” vs. “Is” is a helluva drug, ain’t it?

    “But repeatedly, I see people insult him on his own website. The one that he pays for. And allows people acting like juvenile jackwagons to post on.”

    Obviously the juvenile jackwagons give him and his readers more and more interesting content to consume, often more than the original post. He’s set up a perfect content generation system and YOU’RE trying to ruin it with policing!

    “If Patterico’s point of view upsets you so much, find somewhere else to vent your spleen.”

    ‘If someone offends you, go beat your wife or another unrelated party till you feel better!’ Sorry, but we’re through with THAT rape culture defense, thank you very much!

    “Insulting your host is rude behavior.”

    Rude behavior sells and generates butthurt, which draws eyeballs and clicks.

    “Now, of course, will come the faux-macho protestations that no one was insulting Patterico, that one needs to stand up, etc.”

    It was Dana but I’ll insult him for running an transparently anti-Trump operation for unspecified donor money (as the alternative, that he really was PERSONALLY too offended to support the man who, alone among many, actually fought back directly against the Inner Party, is too silly to contemplate. Idealism dies early. Greed is sustainable even when it produces low-quality work.)

    “Again: being polite is not weakness, and being a jackass is not strength.”

    Nope. Both are if the US is moving to blatantly tribal politics and you’re still stuck in ideological mode. It is, in fact, the height of weakness to be polite when jackassery may yet bully at least one of Pat or his readers toward sensible actions to Make America Great Again, or at least save themselves through the proper action or inaction.

    Bullying is the real altruism. Disengagement is the real apathy.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  74. I think Simon Jester meant people have been insulting *to* Dana too.

    Patterico (aa3be1)

  75. why do rhetorical questions like that,

    http://www.newsweek.com/why-are-terrorists-openly-recruiting-pakistan-503558?rx=us

    as if mawdudi, who adapted qutb to the northwestern frontier, was not the answer,

    narciso (d1f714)

  76. I think we’re being very naive, as mark steyn has put it, culture outpaces mere politics,

    narciso (d1f714)

  77. aren’t at least two of those example, wright and rezko, obama, how is it he’s like the cheshire cat in this,

    narciso (d1f714)

  78. #nevertrump failed to read the times, that the lumpen proletariat was concerned most about jobs, immigration, their rising debt and falling standard of living and were especially incensed at a condescending, unaccountable governing class.

    Very many of #nevertrump are beholden to the nanny state. It is not unreasonable to perceive this stubborn inflexibility regarding the will of the, yes, majority stated herein as one of “character” is in fact, recalcitrance.

    DNF (755a85)

  79. Sigh. That’s correct, Dana and Patterico.

    Simon Jester (485863)

  80. I find it tiring that people like you believe that voting Trump will actually improve things. But there you go. You don’t provide any Data to support this claim, but I am supposed to buy it. Sort of like vote for the bill so you can know what’s in it …

    Dana (995455) — 10/2/2016 @ 6:21 pm

    I’m thinking more along the lines of not appointing people to his administration and the courts who are increasingly using the power of government literally to intimidate and silence conservatives or others who don’t tow their line.

    Which of the Republican candidates this year met your requirement of having “data” that enables you to conclude they would actually improve things?

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  81. well one would like to be idealistic, but consider even in capra’s mr smith, the oligarchs nearly crush him, and in wonderful life, it takes a supernatural intervention to save george bailey,

    narciso (d1f714)

  82. 74. What goes around comes around, if in new clothes.

    DNF (755a85)

  83. madison, anchorage, austin, if you want to add trenton, to the list, the casualties of lawfare are long and painful, it doesn’t matter that one prevails, as we discovered in the first case,
    chisholm dumped his files into al ghuardian,

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. All of the harm willfully visited on America by the Lord of the Flies, cannot be expunged.

    But some of it certainly will be, countermanding EO’s and Memos, firing heads of Departments and Bureaus, etc.

    Improvements are out of the hands of our generations.

    DNF (755a85)

  85. 81. And escaping the whirlwind perhaps a remnant can rebuild.

    But #nevertrump is just laying down to die.

    DNF (ffe548)

  86. General Flynn, Dr. Gorka, Steve Moore, on average their imput will be taken into account, Huma Sid Vicious, the Mook will be everpresent,

    narciso (d1f714)

  87. Parents have more than two babysitters to choose from. We voters have a choice between two very flawed presidential candidates only. Not voting or voting for a 3rd party candidate is is avoiding this binary choice.

    Elmer Stoup (6effee)

  88. but one candidate still prevails, vote for bluntman, he may remember to make a concession speech,

    narciso (d1f714)

  89. 86. And the soup lines. In town here, a little metro of 125K, I count a dozen thrift stores and I’m an indifferent shopper.

    There are half as many half-way houses.

    DNF (ffe548)

  90. 41 But what I can’t buy is the idea that Trump will be good in any sense, or that we should shill for him. Its funny on the outside to watch people argue for a liberal Democrat, because he says “tough” things and has an “R” after his name.

    Trump obviously isn’t a liberal Democrat. He isn’t a conservative Republican either but those aren’t the only two possibilities.

    James B. Shearer (0dbf28)

  91. I actually read her memoir

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/clay-waters/2016/10/02/new-york-times-again-rolls-out-red-carpet-communist-castro-supporter

    it qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment,

    narciso (d1f714)

  92. 90. “those aren’t the only two possibilities.”

    Indeed, the old order vigorously resists change when they are best positioned to make changes.

    In my town we’re seeing a last flurry of construction, but with the national turn down three months and cratering I hope people are saving their wages and commissions for winter.

    New Cap spending is falling quickly.

    DNF (ffe548)

  93. the short answer, is there is a cohort who views character as a microagression, feelings over facts,

    narciso (d1f714)

  94. one’s got to win, in 1860, the dems splintered and that gave lincoln the advantage, 16 years earlier, birnie drew enough from clay to elect polk, and the rest was history,

    narciso (d1f714)

  95. I think if character mattered, neither of these people would be a candidate,
    If character mattered, the Republicans and the public would not have allowed the ongoing corruption of the executive branch these last several years,
    If character mattered, the Democratic party would have ceased to exist around 1998.

    This election shows that for the majority of the public, and the vast majority of the media and the DC elite, character does not matter.

    If one is concerned about character, the best thing to do is fast and pray (sackcloth and ashes optional),
    writing columns has been inadequate for many years now.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  96. Simon Jester,

    A couple times a week, you lecture us all that Patterico doesn’t need you to stand up for him.
    …and then you proceed to lecture us again.

    There’s some give-and-take regarding politics, but that’s politics.
    Let’s chill out about all the calls for banning this guy and that guy.

    Harry Truman said something about being able to stand the heat in the kitchen.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  97. 93. Stockman’s illustration:

    http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Capture28.png

    Four more years!

    DNF (ffe548)

  98. “The only way to win is to not play”

    What in the name of Allen do you hope to win by not playing?

    I swear, this place has taken on the stench of Eric Erickson. Every post is a vicious, slander against Trump, with the occasional Hillary too thrown in for cover. Ya’ll ain’t fooling anybody, you’re democrat schills pulling for Hillary.

    I’ve had enough. The rest of you can wade chest deep in the BS being grunted out by self righteous, traitorous, virtue signalling, intellectual lightweights if you like the abuse, but I can’t stand it no more.

    LBascom (2f3828)

  99. 96. Thank you.

    DNF (ffe548)

  100. there will come a time, sooner rather than later, when it will be freedom to worship not of religion, how this is left out of the picture is a mystery,

    narciso (d1f714)

  101. Abortion is murder so I can’t vote for any candidate who has ever supported it in any way, even if voting for one of them will possibly result in greater restrictions. So basically I never vote in any election, and that makes me morally superior to EVERYBODY ON EARTH!!!!!!

    ProLifer (ea6c4f)

  102. lol

    i remember when abortion was a “serious issue”

    the masks have fallen away

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  103. yes, that was the birnie profile, he set back the peaceful course of abolition by a generation,

    narciso (d1f714)

  104. “ProLifer” is not a pro-lifer but a Moby. And, in fact, based on what he wrote, he is morally inferior to at least half the planet. Definitely morally inferior to my daughter.

    John Hitchcock (2dbce8)

  105. You have multiple choices for babysitters, financial advisors, etc. You only have don’t have two choices for this election. One of these two people will be the next president, and you may as well vote for the one that is less reprehensible than the other, in my case Trump.

    Cap'n Eddie Ricketyback (ee29a7)

  106. I don’t think that there are Democratic shills for Clinton here,
    Just people reacting to those who think Trump is a good choice.
    P has said he understands and is fine with people who think that Trump is the less terrible of two terrible candidates, if I remember correctly.

    I don’t read as much here anymore, both because of many of the posts and the comments.
    I know Trump is a terrible candidate and there is no reason to trust what he says than with any other politician who promises one thing then does another when they get to DC,
    And Clinton is worse

    Ad infinitum is not helpful, imo.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  107. and who has not behaved like a moby, as in a competition between chamberlain and churchill, the former had quite a pedigree, no negative personal habits, no ideological predilictions like india, who came through in the end,

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. 99. Oh, that’s only Mr. M., pay no attention.

    DNF (ffe548)

  109. not my cup of oolong but I was outvoted, at this point it’s enemy action,

    narciso (d1f714)

  110. it’s probably perry, or dimwit,

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. 108. “Just people reacting to those who think Trump is a good choice.”

    Even that is a slight by overstatement. After the last competitor crashed and burned in the deep South, Trump was the choice.

    DNF (ffe548)

  112. I’m a moby? For simply restating Dana’s precise position?

    ProLifer (ea6c4f)

  113. Except, for Dana, lying and hypocrisy are worse character flaws than murder.

    ProLifer (ea6c4f)

  114. And John Hitchcock, on the abortion issue you’re probably a “devout Catholic” compared to me. Except you’re of the Nancy Pelosi variety.

    ProLifer (ea6c4f)

  115. Voting for pres this year seems like playing Russian roulette by yourself. The binary choice is between using Clinton’s gun and Trump’s gun. You MUST choose one!

    felipe (023cc9)

  116. I haven’t been posting lately because I am so disgusted by this current political predicament. I have been praying a lot about it, and contemplating an avenue of action. Jeff Jacoby’s piece compelled me to think further upon matters because as a believer, I have an acute need to understand the Christians’s obligation, if any, in this election cycle. I find that I have no moral obligation to vote, but have every obligation to maintain as best. I can a clear conscience.

    I understand fully commenters who will vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils.

    What I won’t do is lie for Trump and pretend that he is s conservative, principled man, or man of his word. Or even the lesser of two evils.

    God is certainly judging His people by giving us these two buffoons. And as such, the proper response to the judgement is repentance. Because for you, for me, and other believers here, there is even something greater than an election at stake.

    Take care.

    Dana (995455)

  117. I haven’t been posting lately because I am so disgusted by this current political predicament. I have been praying a lot about it, and contemplating an avenue of action. Jeff Jacoby’s piece compelled me to think further upon matters because as a believer, I have an acute need to understand the Christians’s obligation, if any, in this election cycle. I find that I have no moral obligation to vote, but have every obligation to maintain as best. I can a clear conscience.

    I understand fully commenters who will vote for Trump as the lesser of two evils.

    What I won’t do is lie for Trump and pretend that he is s conservative, principled man, or man of his word. Or even the lesser of two evils.

    God is certainly judging His people by giving us these two buffoons. And as such, the proper response to the judgement is repentance. Because for you, for me, and other believers here, there is even something greater than an election at stake.

    Take care.

    Dana (995455) — 10/2/2016 @ 8:14 pm

    I don’t think he’s conservative. I don’t think he’s liberal. Nobody needs to lie and pretend he’s conservative in general. He is conservative on some things.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  118. if character mattered johnson or stein would be leading in the polls.

    polecat (c12b31)

  119. then endorse gary johnson and get on with it, he seems to have no strong opinions or even awareness besides st, snowden and pot, and not in that order,

    narciso (d1f714)

  120. Dana (995455) — 10/2/2016 @ 8:14 pm
    Dana, it would speak well of our country, to history, if the majority of votes cast were for neither candidate. If, in every state, people wrote in a candidate of their own choice to make clear that the two parties have come up short. It will deny any claim to a mandate.

    felipe (023cc9)

  121. … come up short, then it will deny…

    felipe (023cc9)

  122. no it will not, I showed two examples, the hinges of history, is he really ‘the man of perdition’ that is the starting point of all commentary, at every broadsheet, the emigre from the scottish play, must be given a chance, we are told, because ‘she is the kindest, smartest, most compassionate one in all of christendom,

    narciso (d1f714)

  123. To an average Christian, character and morality don’t matter.
    To a normal Christian, character and morality are paramount.

    John Hitchcock (2dbce8)

  124. say you guess, then obama says clearly this system is more dysfunctional than even I imagined, he already has a perch for the next year anyways, and decides to stay who will dislodge him,

    narciso (d1f714)

  125. Trump believes in big government authoritarianism.

    To those who believe in limited government, he is as bad as Clinton.

    The only argument to vote for Trump is that he will staff the Executive branch with people who are not Marxist culture warriors.

    Which is why I will probably vote for him. I live in the swingiest state of all, Florida, so I don’t have the same context that people like Patterico, who lives in the bluest of blue states, and DRJ, who lives in one of the reddest of red states, have.

    But if Trump and his altright cesspool of support keep reminding me of why I am disgusted by him, I may go back to leaving my ballot blank.

    Kishnevi (d097a6)

  126. this is the x factor we haven’t counted on, they have laid the foundation for 50 years, thereabouts, and they don’t want to give up ‘the commanding heights’ they have purged the military of any dissenting officers probably above lt. colonel,

    narciso (d1f714)

  127. ah the alt right, I’ll take them with a grain of salt, thank you very much, as oren cemri points out up thread,

    narciso (d1f714)

  128. BTW, tonight being the start of the New Year….

    I know I was at various points this last year an arrogant offensive ass. I apologize ( and ask forgiveness) to all and any of you I treated unfairly.

    Kishnevi (d097a6)

  129. If we just praayyy harrrrd enuff, then there won’t be a winner in the presidential election.
    OMG. (LOL)

    There’s gonna be a winner — and it ain’t gonna be Ted Cruz, so get over it.

    It’ll be Trump or illary.
    You choose.
    Or more importantly, for the holierthanthou crowd who insists they don’t have to choose, either Trump or illary will still become your President even if you don’t choose. (DAMMMMMNNNN! WUTTTT??!!)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  130. Narciso, I would like to think you are right, but given the evidence provided by Mr. Dystopia and Mr. Bascom*, I am not sanguine. If Trump wins, the Stormfront element gets a boost. If Clinton wins, the Hamasniks get a boost.

    *That may seem unfair, but only if you did not read some of the comments and linkage loops of links he provided.

    Kishnevi (d097a6)

  131. Cruz supporter,

    Not all of us can be as insightful as you. Just try to tolerate simpletons like me as best you can. God does, so you’ll be in good company.

    Dana (995455)

  132. L’Shana Tova, Kishnevi.

    nk (dbc370)

  133. When you mock prayer (which is mocking Christianity and, thus, The Almighty), I am not as forgiving as Dana is.

    John Hitchcock (2dbce8)

  134. “What I won’t do is lie for Trump and pretend that he is s conservative, principled man,”

    *nods reluctantly*

    “or man of his word.”

    *cocks head to the side, eventually nods noncomittally*

    “Or even the lesser of two evils.”

    Nah he’s definitely the lesser by orders of magnitude. You need him to counterbalance PAUL RYAN if anyone.

    “God is certainly judging His people by giving us these two buffoons. And as such, the proper response to the judgement is repentance. Because for you, for me, and other believers here, there is even something greater than an election at stake.

    Take care.”

    A noble effort, but Vos Day seems to have done you one better:

    The USA is collapsing because it is not the United States of America anymore. Its human and military capital have been considerably drawn down. The people who are the posterity of the Founders have been invaded and overrun, the various propositions and creeds that made their culture exceptional have been rejected by nationals, citizens, and invaders alike, and the remnants of their religion is a watered-down, treasonous, pharisaical Judeo-Churchianity that is a pale shadow of the unadulterated Christianity that once fearlessly proclaimed “No King but Jesus” to the English Crown.

    Now they are afraid to call abomination and adultery sin. Instead, they preach against masculinity and nationalism.

    So, what else would you expect? I mean, seriously, what other outcome could there possibly be?

    Do you not see that the pace of the financial rapine has increased as well? That’s the elite, desperately attempting to make hay while the setting sun still shines.

    Generalized ‘repentance’ is generally not a good strategy if you never identify what you repented for. REPENT, FOR YOU HAVE REJECTED YOUR FAMILIES AND COUNTRYMEN IN FAVOR OF FOREIGNERS FOR A FINANCIAL PITTANCE!!! is a little more to my taste.

    Attention to detail, Dana. Always necessary.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  135. Cruz supporter: but if they don’t vote for either, they will remain (1) ideological pure, and (2) pursuant to the Constitution, completely immune to the effects of the policies of the elected candidate, and not required to obey any of the laws passed by the winner’s administration.

    ProLifer (ea6c4f)

  136. I don’t know max, but I recall bascom from goldstein’s site, and he was level headed there, we’re talking about mass organizations, duke well he hasn’t seen anything other than skulking around tehran for the better part of a decade, why feed his image as a rebel, politico looks askance at j street and the plowshares project, and now is chicken little,

    narciso (d1f714)

  137. god is much more important then politics, and his message is much more clear, yet 2000 years later, it’s still misunderstood, take 2 thessalonians, in conjunction with ezekiel and isiah and daniel, hard rain’s gonna fall,

    narciso (d1f714)

  138. Dystopia Max is Christoph. If Patterico has decided to unban him, it’s fine with me. He’s a lonely flake, and it’s just as likely that next week he’ll be rooting for Jill Stein. And all the Trumpkins confirm what I have always said — that Patterico’s comment threads are the best on the web.

    nk (dbc370)

  139. well I find that approach flawed, not to say counterproductive, this is the world jesse jackson set out some 28 years ago, when he decided ‘western culture has got to go’ well then what remains like chesterton says, is anything else,

    narciso (d1f714)

  140. Dear Cruz Supporter:

    Let us be clear with one another. I think you have a right to your own opinion, as I am sure you feel I have a right to mine.

    What I object to are people posting insulting crap here that slops over onto decent people.

    The best you have ever come up with was someone was rude to you, and where was I?

    Saying what I am saying now: it’s wrong to be a jackass to others. It’s not strong. It’s not righteous. It convinces no one. It’s schoolyard nonsense.

    And deciding that it is somehow speaking truth to power to insult the people who PAY for your soapbox is the pinnacle of jackassery. More and more, I see people posting insults and nastiness, instead of debating. Patterico puts up with it. I don’t see how.

    So I am sorry that you feel it is tiresome that this bothers me. The consistent drumbeat of juvenile nonsense bothers me. So we are even.

    But it isn’t my site. Nor is it yours. And neither of us pay for it.

    So how awful is it to suggest that, just maybe, folks should tone down the crap? Or get their own site to fulminate on. Lots of great folks no longer post here. I wonder why.

    Simon Jester (485863)

  141. yes, we would have hoped another candidate had prevailed, but it wasn’t it to be, I hoped a similar thing had happened in 2012, and 2008, both were dissapointing experiences, the way another candidates was chopped up like in an inquest, based on little but shadows and enemy action six years ago, makes we wonder how wrong can a group be, it’s perhaps because I’ve learned so much from all of you in 8-10 years, that I find this course of action, mistaken,

    narciso (d1f714)

  142. it would seem to be one candidate really does follow trasymachus ‘rule of the strong’ whether directly through rampaging mobs that have torched how many cities at this point, or through bureaucratic force majeure,

    narciso (d1f714)

  143. Simon Jester,

    Patterico pays for a site where people can have DIFFERENT points of view.
    However, all I ever hear you say that is that people with different points of view are jerks(!) and therefore need to be banned.

    If “different points of view” are too controversial for your blood pressure, then maybe there are other blogs that will suit your needs.
    I don’t know — I’m just making polite suggestions.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  144. BLM, like Occupy and DU, are George Soros agitprop, borrowing from Comintern’s playbook dating back to the 1950s which involved local useful idiots and imported paid thugs. Soros probably thinks of himself as some kind of Blofeld (or Dr. Evil 😛 ), but he too shall soon pass.

    nk (dbc370)

  145. into the black power organization, (they can’t come up with any original material) sorry about that, they’ve kept a low profile for now, that won’t endure,

    the results from colombia are reassuring, santos a once honorable man, tried to sell a ‘pig in a poke’ and the people didn’t buy it,

    narciso (d1f714)

  146. just a misunderstanding,

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3818232/Saudi-princess-fled-Paris-instructing-bodyguard-kill-decorator-named-hitman-arrested.html

    which sort of explains the ground from which salafism rises,

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. I don’t really care what concerns she has, except to say, they are not wellmeaning,

    https://twitter.com/thehill/status/782748514996592640

    narciso (d1f714)

  148. You got it all wrong. The media’s problem with Trump is that he has the bull by the horns, when their special and really only skill is in dragging people down.

    Since they couldn’t cut him any other way, use to be their go to question with Trump.
    You have all the answers, they would coyly ask, “so why don’t you run for President?”

    The goal wasn’t that they wanted him to run. THe liberal media conglomerate’s goal was to knock him down a peg. it didn’t work
    Feed him a little humbled pie. But because the media is filled with well connected mediocrities, jealous of real talent and ability, and because they couldn’t ding him any other way {he’s just that good} pretty soon every interview ended with the negging question, “So why don’t you run for president if you’re so smart”?

    Notice – every one of these digs at Trump – by you self professed deep thinkers – they’re never accompanied by a reason.

    It’s always feelz, and the main over-riding feelz is jealousy.

    Don’t stick us with a psychotic like Hillary as president, over something as petty as envy.

    papertiger (82d7e8)

  149. Put another way, Trump is far smarter than Patterico and the vast majority of his naysayers.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  150. I’ll say this, though. Reading Trumpkin comments, like the preceding two, from Denver Guy and papertiger, is a waste of brain synapses. May God have mercy on their souls.

    nk (dbc370)

  151. BTW, tonight being the start of the New Year….

    I know I was at various points this last year an arrogant offensive ass. I apologize ( and ask forgiveness) to all and any of you I treated unfairly.

    Kishnevi (d097a6) — 10/2/2016 @ 8:37 pm,

    No worries. Far as I go it’s all good. I know I’m not the gentlest of posters, either.

    I’ll steal nk’s greeting to you (I don’t know any Hebrew!) and say L’Shana Tova, Kishnevi. Or is “L’chaim” appropriate?

    Bill H (971e5f)

  152. what could possibly go wrong,

    http://thehill.com/policy/defense/298800-four-military-options-for-obama-in-syria

    besides an islamic state on israel northeast corner,

    narciso (d1f714)

  153. l’shana tova, kish,

    narciso (d1f714)

  154. If Trump wins, the Stormfront element gets a boost.

    DYK The National Council of La Raza (http://www.nclr.org/) is celebrating National Hispanic Heritage Month (http://hispanicheritagemonth.gov/) dot gov.

    Some institutionalized racism is more equal than others.

    And m
    all of them are more equal than mine.

    Like I said envy, jealousy.

    Don’t stick us with Hillary on account of your bigotry.

    papertiger (82d7e8)

  155. That’s the definition of “quitting” not “winning”, Kevin M. Americans aren’t quitters.

    Hoagie, to participate in a sham is to acquiesce to it. You go cast your little vote saying “I like Trump” and you will get more Trumps.

    The way NOT to quit is to boycott the Presidential part of the ballot. Vote NOTA by not voting for any of the above. In my dreams there are about 70 million ballots cast, down from the 130 million one would expect, leaving whoever wins utterly crippled politically.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  156. But of course, that won’t happen as all the little drones are out there voting for the lesser of TWO TERRIBLE EVILS.

    Goering or Himmler.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  157. It seems that if the choice were actually Goering vs Himmler, a lot of people here would be concerned about which one was the Republican and finding some solace in that.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  158. Tell us how you feelz Kevin.

    Don’t hold back.

    Emote!

    papertiger (82d7e8)

  159. Try this one.
    Google “was lincoln gay?”

    So tell me how I’m off the mark. nk

    papertiger (82d7e8)

  160. Anybody who does not vote for either Trump or Clinton is just being childish.
    Face reality, this is the choice you have. Pick which one you think will do the country best. Sitting out, voting third party, or writing in is not going to accomplish anything.

    Rationalizing to yourself about the moral high ground you’re taking by not making this choice is pathetic.

    Gil (0bf8a1)

  161. ZAKARIA: Do you think you could imagine a similar Trump surprise?

    FARAGE: I think there were two phenomenons here. I think the first is that on telephone polls, particularly, people are nervous to come across as being too conservative, too socially conservative. So, you know, we’ve seen in the last few years in Britain opinion polls getting it wrong because people aren’t quite telling the truth on the telephone.But there’s another phenomenon here. And frankly, the polling industry in Europe — I mean, frankly, it’s almost bankrupt in terms of its reputation. And I wonder whether we’re seeing the same phenomenon in America. What I’m talking about is the polling companies find it really hard to find people who are outside of politics and who are now coming into politics. And that’s why the opinion polls over Brexit were wrong, although I do admit I suffered myself from a bout of eleventh-hour nerves.

    DNF (ffe548)

  162. 160. Perfect example of ‘swimming upstream’, ‘kicking against the goads’, etc.

    Here we have some tens of millions choosing for the first time to vote against the ‘sham’ and Mr. M. is withdrawing because he is a contrarian.

    Unexpectedly!

    DNF (ffe548)

  163. Sunday on NBC’s “Meet The Press,” while discussing the popularity of Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump liberal filmmaker Michael Moore said angry voters “see Donald Trump as their human Molotov cocktail, that they get to go into the voting booth on November 8th and throw him into a political system.”

    Blind squirrel, nut.

    DNF (ffe548)

  164. Mr. Trump has the best character and it’s very important

    he’s a doer and a builder and a gitter things doner

    he won’t do stinky pig juices all up in the constitution (appreciate this about him)

    he’ll save the wiggle giggles he’ll save the jobs he’ll save the christmas he’ll save the best for last

    contrast that with what that diseased stinkypig will do all up in it i dare you

    oh yes pickle-poos

    character matters

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  165. When we first heard the news that the US DOJ had slapped Deutsche Bank with a $14 billion settlement on September 15, a number that looked oddly similar to the $14 billion fine the EU slapped on Apple, we determined that this was likely nothing more than “blowback” on behalf of the US, saying “just a few weeks after the EU slapped Apple with a $14 billion bill for “back taxes,” the U.S. has apparently responded with a $14 billion fine of their own to Deutsche Bank to settle an outstanding probe into the company’s trading of mortgage-backed securities during the financial crisis.”

    Today, after three weeks of unprecedented volatility in the stock price of the German lender which sent its shares to all time lows as recently as Friday, Germany has latched on to this line of attack as German politicians accused the US of waging economic war against ­Germany as, in the words of the FT, “concern continues to rise among its political and corporate elite over the future of Deutsche Bank.”

    DNF (ffe548)

  166. Having traded in a narrow range for 3 months, Swiss stocks tumbled last week amid contagion concerns over Deutsche Bank. With valuations at their highest realtive to Euro peers since 2008, it appears investors are hedging aggressively. Bearish Swiss stock option positions out-number bullish by the most since Lehman (after which SMI fell by 50%).

    “probably nothing”

    DNF (ffe548)

  167. failmerica’s just a slovenly gangsta thugstate anymore Mr. DNF and even the blinkered perverted eurotrash know it

    say what you want about president food stamp

    he brought a lot of clarity

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  168. The only argument to vote for Trump is that he will staff the Executive branch with people who are not Marxist culture warriors.

    Which is why I will probably vote for him. I live in the swingiest state of all, Florida, so I don’t have the same context that people like Patterico, who lives in the bluest of blue states, and DRJ, who lives in one of the reddest of red states, have.

    Kishnevi (d097a6) — 10/2/2016 @ 8:32 pm

    I don’t believe the people he would staff his administration with is the only argument for Trump, but it is an argument that, virtually without exception, the NeverTrumps don’t acknowledge. Mostly it’s just how awful he is personally, combined with vague assertions of some kind (“He’ll be a disaster!”) or the absurd claim that he’s as leftist as Clinton.

    The alt righters are detestable but I’ve argued repeatedly you don’t vote based on what some of the candidates supporters are like. I’ve also argued repeatedly that some of the NeverTrumps are doing just that.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  169. in order to know which one to vote for you have to be able to make moral distinctions Mr. A

    republican elitists (think trashy ben sasse), they’ve allowed this skill atrophy

    they have no star by which to steer

    morally adrift, they snuffle that pig for solace

    they dream of growing fat on the drippings

    they murmur and burble languidly through the fat bubbles on their greasy lips

    i’m so ugly but that’s okay cause so are you they sing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  170. Hoagie, to participate in a sham is to acquiesce to it. You go cast your little vote saying “I like Trump” and you will get more Trumps.

    Kevin M, when you say “your little vote” is that an attempt of devalue or minimize my vote thereby justifying you throwing your away? Seems it. Voting for Trump will not get us “more Trumps” it will hopefully get us zero Klintons. And when we patriots who want to make America great again cast our “little votes” we are not saying “I like Trump” we are saving the Republic from people too dumb to care what Killary does to it.

    The way NOT to quit is to boycott the Presidential part of the ballot.

    So the Newspeak way NOT to quit, is to quit? How droll. That stupid idea rises to the level of fooling oneself.

    In my dreams there are about 70 million ballots cast, down from the 130 million one would expect, leaving whoever wins utterly crippled politically.

    Your dreams are all wet (pun intended). Nothing will politically cripple Hildebeast politically if she’s elected. If she wins by one vote the dems, the media, academia, and the political class will declare a MANDATE and sweep leftist policies through for years.

    Not voting is not the moral high ground you think it is. Rather, it’s moral cowardice.

    Right now from sea to shining sea there are thousands of Klinton operatives signing up illegals to vote, digging up the dead, registering in ten locations, faking ID’s and writing in thousands of phony absentee ballots in an attempt to marginalize my “little vote”. Apparently the enemy values and fears my little vote more than you and that’s pathetic.

    “Little vote”, indeed. Wow, talk about condescending.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  171. they’ve allowed this skill *to* atrophy i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  172. 168. A vote is a vote is a vote….so what if its in frustration versus affirmation.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  173. They are obtuse to a remarkable degree.

    narciso (d1f714)

  174. Wikileaks to release info on Clinton

    Assange was supposed to release it today from the balcony of London’s Ecuadorian Embassy but will do it tomorrow over video because he claims to have concerns for his personal safety.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  175. Agree with Dana,
    this is evidence of God’s judgment of the most terrible kind,
    giving us up to the consequences of our rebellion

    Thanks, narciso,
    I haven’t looked at two Thessalonians in a long time.
    Strong delusion indeed,
    perhaps that is giving us over to our Tower of Babel desire,
    to become great and get a name for ourselves, to rival God

    Lot of that making a name for themselves going on, with every vile practice flowing out of an abundance of selfish ambition

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  176. My two millennial sons want someone neither Dem nor Repub,
    And at least one thinks that the public is not smart enough/knows enough to make a worthwhile vote, that manipulation by sound bites is all that elections are anymore, and it is not working.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  177. I’m not saying don’t vote, though,
    I’m just saying that the problem goes way beyond that.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  178. Excellent article analyzing the “arguments” of RINO NeverTrumper Michael Gerson, who is now indistinguishable from loony libs.

    Hence his next move is to play the race card, the ground for which he prepares via his denunciation of “the nostalgia of conservative white men.” From his photo, Gerson looks like a white man and he calls himself a “conservative” (though I wouldn’t). He must then exempt himself from this charge by not being “nostalgic.”

    The RINO segment of NeverTrump at least seems to understand (sort of) why they’re a NeverTrump. Gerson doesn’t want the border closed etc.

    The “conservative” segment of NeverTrump who think Trump’s indistinguishable from Clinton and the RINO NeverTrumps can’t both be right. The RINOs are right about Trump, i.e., he is way different from Clinton. The out in space “conservatives” have a childish, and maybe nutty, impulse to punish Trumpers who prevented their guy from getting nominated, along with some other weird things going on.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  179. “The alt righters are detestable but I’ve argued repeatedly you don’t vote based on what some of the candidates supporters are like. I’ve also argued repeatedly that some of the NeverTrumps are doing just that.”

    Despite the long record of failure and compromises of Republican representatives, and the long record of open traitorousness and duplicity of Republican consultants now in the #NeverTrump camp, the alt-right is still prepared to endorse Donald J. Trump, a Republican.

    If it fails, well, let’s just say the only other people celebrating a Hillary win will be right-wing extremists.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  180. I reject the notion frequently and repeatedly offered that “conservative nevertrumpers” are motivated primarily out of spite and sour apples.
    You make such claims as if you have certainty about reading minds.
    Isn’t it possible that some people really think that Trump is that bad, just in a different way than Clinton?
    You can disagree with that, but you cannot deny people having that conviction.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  181. A guy I once knew dropped a pair of tweezers into the toilet. He could not bear to reach in to pull it out. He tried to flush it down, clogged the toilet, and had to call a plumber. And this was a grown man.

    That’s how I feel about checking the box next to Trump’s name. It’s a toilet I do not want to put my hand in.

    nk (dbc370)

  182. Gerson helped sink w on Katrina and the middleast, missed the tea party entirely perhaps as an errand boy for Prince takal.

    narciso (48ecae)

  183. But wait, there’s more. If anybody outside my family and friends was going to persuade me to vote for Trump, it would have been Ted Cruz, a politician for whom I have nothing but respect. He did not and therefore no Trumpkin will either. I call it the Cruz Paradox.

    nk (dbc370)

  184. it’s no fun when you end up getting pigged on

    it’s no fun when you can’t escape the stench

    it’s no fun when she spreads her pig diseases

    it’s no fun when that pig is all up in it

    it’s no fun and it’s the kids what suffer most

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  185. I reject the notion frequently and repeatedly offered that “conservative nevertrumpers” are motivated primarily out of spite and sour apples.
    You make such claims as if you have certainty about reading minds.
    Isn’t it possible that some people really think that Trump is that bad, just in a different way than Clinton?
    You can disagree with that, but you cannot deny people having that conviction.

    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/3/2016 @ 7:06 am

    I’ve addressed the “reading minds” claim before. First of all some, like Kevin M, have said Trump’s supporters are at least one reason why he is reluctant to vote for Trump.

    Aside from that, I logically infer that is their motive, because the reasons they are giving don’t make any sense (Trump indistinguishable from Clinton).

    Now when we read what the RINOs like Gerson are saying, they think he’ll enact the very things his supporters are hoping for, and that’s why they oppose him.

    It is possible that some people really think that Trump is that bad, just in a different way than Clinton, but what exactly that way is remains totally vague or, stupid (he’ll start a war with Russia).

    Maybe it’s not that conservative NeverTrumps want to punish Trumpers etc., but the reasons they keep throwing out are not believable to me or don’t seem to amount to anything at all, so I infer there’s some other reason. My theory is one plausible explanation.

    Some people have just settled on hating him so much that they don’t need any other reason. A few people seem to be in that category. I’m not sure that’s significantly different than sour grapes/spite.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  186. That’s how I feel about checking the box next to Trump’s name. It’s a toilet I do not want to put my hand in.

    That’s okay, sweetcheeks, there are plenty of real men who can pull your tweezers out of the toilet because we know we can wash our hands when we’re done. We’ll even sterilize them for you so you can pluck your brows.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  187. Snap:

    latest poll in New Mexico shows Hillary Clinton leading Donald Trump by just four points in that state.
    The survey, from the Albuquerque Journal, shows Clinton leading Trump 35 percent to 31 percent, with the state’s former governor Libertarian Gary Johnson pulling 24 percent and two percent for Green Party candidate Dr. Jill Stein just over a month from election day.

    The poll of 501 likely New Mexico voters, conducted from Sept. 27 to Sept. 29, has a margin of error of 4.4 percent.

    DNF (ffe548)

  188. 191. “reading minds”

    Isn’t this the sum of #nevertrump’s forward looking argument against the Great White Satan? That statements made 20 years ago in Donk owned state are predictive beyond dispute?

    QED, “the reasons they are giving don’t make any sense”. Ockham’s razor.

    DNF (ffe548)

  189. But wait, there really is more. Nobody cares who you vote for except you. Nobody care who I vote for either. Screw’em nk, vote for whoever you like. That’s what I’ll do.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  190. 187. Flawed metaphor, we are all in that toilet, some want out.

    DNF (ffe548)

  191. i’m so sad for the kids who’ll get diseases

    for the kids what will die fighting pig wars

    i’m so sad for all them wiggle giggles dying

    it’s no fun and it’s the kids what suffer most

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  192. Washington D.C. is full of people with no character. What’s one more!

    mg (31009b)

  193. 193. Not that it might matter in terms of margin by roughly 10:00pm -11:00pm ET on election night (for either of the binary sides), but what if GJ could pull in the 5 NM electoral votes? That would be something. I still say their stereotypical M-A grandmother (I can say this) of a governor should endorse Johnson and get her machine to fall in line.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  194. Hillary posed nude?

    Smitty (3ab3f9)

  195. See 1844, and be careful what you wish for.

    narciso (d1f714)

  196. the story about Mr. Trump and playboy isn’t any better sourced than that enquirer story about harvardtrash ted making sexy with a bunch of not-heidis

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  197. Well, NM is part of the booty that 1844 set the stage for, Nars – you might be right on that one. NM would come out of Hillary’s hide in this go-round so maybe some would welcome the cushion.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  198. The man hf calls harvard trash did have a Captain Caveman thing going.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  199. what does that even mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  200. You make such claims as if you have certainty about reading minds

    Who needs to read minds when we have the internet?

    Unless you interpret. nk says up front he has no legitimate reason.

    I
    A vote for Trump makes him feel icky, like he’s reaching in the toilet.

    Nothing more than feelings [YouTube]

    papertiger (82d7e8)

  201. Anyway. The Chicago Tribune has endorsed Gary Johnson.

    How has our country fallen so inescapably into political and policy gridlock? How did pandering to aggrieved niche groups and seducing blocs of angry voters replace working toward solutions as the coin of our governing class? How could the Democratic and Republican parties stagger so far from this nation’s political mainstream?

    And the most pressing question: What should tens of millions of voters who yearn for answers do with two major-party candidates they disdain? Polls show an unprecedented number of people saying they wish they had another choice.

    We reject the cliche that a citizen who chooses a principled third-party candidate is squandering his or her vote.

    Like they say, read the whole thing.

    nk (dbc370)

  202. How else to explain a husband willingly pimping out his wife to pose nude for a men’s magazine? Even going so far as to negotiate the price for his unwilling wife to bare it all…

    this is such a disgusting and baseless assertion to make given the utter lack of evidence that this happened

    what are the facts

    first of all, at the time this anecodote is alleged to have occurred, Marla was *not* Mr. Trump’s wife

    let that sink in and think of how dishonest it is to assert that Mr. Trump wanted “his unwilling wife to bare it all”

    (since this is a patent lie)

    What you have is an anonymous playboy editor supposedly saying that Trump negotiated the fee for Marla to pose nude

    and i believe that probably happened

    but there’s not proof at all, as this sleazy pig-sniffing article asserts, that Mr. Trump was “insistent” that she accept the offer

    poor “pimped out” Marla certainly never alleged as much

    most likely – and I think if you’ve read much about Mr. Trump you’ll find this to be a credible supposition – Mr. Trump just wanted Marla to be able to say she’d been offered a million dollars to do a centerfold

    (Mr. Trump knows a thing or two about marketing)

    and looky here what do we find in a glowing NYT puff piece about Marla from 2012?

    Ms. Maples has always been a romantic figure to me. I believe that for all Mr. Trump’s wealth, she married for love, and it always seemed that she was in love. She never cashed in all that much: there have been no Playboy centerfolds (she was offered $1 million), no tell-all, no reality shows. “Who needed that, when my life used to be a reality show?” she said.

    re-read that paragraph

    yup – that lil fillip was a gift Mr. Trump gave her that she was enjoying long after the divorce

    The takeaway here is that Mr. Trump, he’s a good guy.

    Savvy, too.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  203. There’s also a rumor that MM is also the source of the IRS leak.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  204. Thank youse for your direct responses
    Here are my reasons why I would never vote for Trump,
    though I will check his name as an anti-Clinton vote:
    1) He has no, zero, zilch track record of following through on any of his campaign promises.
    The closest thing to that is whether or not he has a track record in following through on his business commitments. Not one or two but four bankruptcies and multiple other failed business ventures if used as a proxy are worrisome, even if it means he is an honest man who bites off more than he can chew.
    2) Lousy character and is a fool.
    Not only has he broken his vows several times, but is boastful and vulgar about it, disrespecting his current wife and children.
    He claims to have faith in God but has never done anything for which he needs to ask God’s forgiveness. I can understand not asking for God’s forgiveness if you don’t believe in Him, but to say you believe but don’t need it, even if for a “I could love my children better”, well…
    3) Dishonesty. As I said before, I thought it was despicable when Reid lied about Romney and was proud of the outcome,
    I think the same way about Trump.
    4) Petty and spiteful megalomaniac narcissist, like Obama (or Clinton). Not being a leftist is certainly a big plus, but still.

    With those things being said, I don’t care what he says about issues, I have no reason to believe him.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  205. Whatever. I repeat that anyone who chooses evil is choosing evil. Saying it is “not quite so much evil” is just a rationalization. You’re still choosing evil.

    In the past there has usually been a choice with more good than bad. McCain. W. His father. Maybe even Dole, although I couldn’t see it. On rare occasion there has been an outstanding choice. Reagan. Romney (yes! Romney).

    This election we have a man who should never have any elective office vs a woman who has disgraced every office she has had.

    I refuse to pick evil. You can go on all you want about how Clinton won’t start a war, or how Trump will appoint better judges, but … it’s still evil at the root.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  206. What other people say, I don’t even know, let alone care. It is nearly impossible anymore to know what is an honest opinion and what is a calculated dialogue meant not just to inform or persuade, but to undermine or manipulate.
    I don’t care what most of the talking heads say.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  207. I refuse to pick evil.

    Kevin M (25bbee) — 10/3/2016 @ 10:01 am

    I don’t know why Trump’s evil. But that is, conveniently, a fact-free reason not subject to any analysis.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  208. I refuse to pick a sh*t candidate. Go practice your apologetics on that.

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  209. please?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  210. The rest of you folks can subject me to one if you want. That’s on you. Or vote for a good candidate, alternatively (which doesn’t include Trump or Clinton).

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  211. Trump is hardly evil. He’s a lot of things but that adjective is best applied to Crooked Hillary. As I said Kevin M, you don’t need to justify anything to anybody, similarly you have no right to ask anyone else do it either.

    The very first coin minted by the ne United States stated on it “Mind Your Business”. Ahhh, the good old days.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  212. Hahaha this just in: NY attorney general orders Trump Foundation to stop soliciting donations in NY.

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  213. he’s a pooper

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  214. Trump’s a pooper.

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  215. he’s not everybody’s cup of tea to be sure

    but a pooper?

    i don’t see it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  216. Rev.
    I wouldn’t want him to marry my sister, if I had one.
    I don’t think he is as calculatingly evil as Clinton is by any means,
    but he is not good.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  217. he’s better than Mitt Romney, who’s actively scheming to do the pig all up in it

    to say nothing of those filthy bushes

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  218. I listed above why I thought Trump came down on the evil side of the ledger.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  219. I listed above why I thought Trump came down on the evil side of the ledger.

    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 10/3/2016 @ 11:03 am

    In my mind evil would have to exceed the things you listed MD. They show he is lacking in character, which is bad, but not evil.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  220. he’s not lacking in character though jesus christ america

    he just happens to be a regular normal american not some faggy prissy snooty ivy league trash snowflake like george w. bush or mitt romney or barack obama or stinkypig

    and you know what that’s 100% ok

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  221. Donald Trump: Regular Normal American

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  222. I understand how low your opinion of regular normal America is, feets, but I still think the comparison’s a bit harsh.

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  223. for reals Mr. Levi

    this homogeneous ivy league trash hyper-acculturation, it is no good

    it is politburo, and it is no good

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  224. did you see this picture on drudge of bush’s daughter trying so hard to use her limited skills and talents to do the pig all up in it?

    wanna know what’s creepy?

    all the hoochies in the pic have the exact same freaking hair

    this is who they are

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  225. reach out touch faith

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  226. Does Character Matter At All In This Election?

    No.

    Caricatures do.

    “It’s pronounced Chi-nah!” – Donald Trump [Alec Baldwin] ‘SNL,’10/1/16 NBC TV

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  227. I will grant you that Trump’s hairstyle differentiates him from the “hoochies” in that photo. Nothing else does. Entitled scion’s of elite scion’s coasting on family name alone? That’s the attempted differentiation?

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  228. *scions

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  229. that is too reductionist

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  230. ‘I reject the notion frequently and repeatedly offered that “conservative nevertrumpers” are motivated primarily out of spite and sour apples.
    You make such claims as if you have certainty about reading minds.”

    We and the rest of the alt-rightists didn’t get banned from polite society for reading minds.

    We got banned for recognizing inconvenient patterns.

    “Isn’t it possible that some people really think that Trump is that bad, just in a different way than Clinton?”

    It’s possible, but I’ve seen very few genuine cases that weren’t somehow beholden to lawyer/consultancy/Washington welfare.

    “You can disagree with that, but you cannot deny people having that conviction.”

    Your convictions will not be held pertinent without material evidence.

    “I refuse to pick a sh*t candidate. Go practice your apologetics on that.”

    I refuse to reply to a dumpster fire who’s letting me live rent-free in his head, so much so that he’s calling me a poster I’ve never heard of.

    “I don’t care what he says about issues, I have no reason to believe him.”

    You don’t have any qualifications to pronounce one way or the other about the issues that matter. Philly’s perma-decrepitude is job security for doctors. I can promise you unreservedly that places like that will have much less demand for your services in the future. Maybe you’re just motivated by the same thing the lawyers and consultants are: a secure, reliable market of born fools and taught schlubs if the crappier candidate wins. (THINK OF THE POOR ER DOCTORS WITH NOTHING TO DO IN A CRIME-FREE CHICAGO!!!) After all, Crooked Hillary and the rest of the State Department knows that distress created jobs for them and their ilk, and the best way to solve problems for yourself is to enlarge them!

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  231. “I refuse to reply to a dumpster fire who’s letting me live rent-free in his head, so much so that he’s calling me a poster I’ve never heard of.”

    – hunson maxedeer

    I’d imagine that living rent-free is pretty important for a person in your circumstances. And my head is better furnished than your mom’s basement, to boot. You’re welcome.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  232. i have a kitchen table i’m getting rid of

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  233. at the end of the day it’s stinkypig clinton what stands with the corrupt sleazy fbi

    Mr. Trump does not

    that’s all you need to know about character in this latter-day failed slutstate called failmerica

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  234. Don’t confuse sitting on the sidelines with the honorable position.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82)

  235. Perhaps Trump isn’t evil if he’s insane, but somehow that doesn’t work for me either.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  236. that is hyperbole and you are hyperbolulic

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  237. Don’t confuse sitting on the sidelines with the honorable position.

    Don’t confuse accepting a choice of evils as an honorable position.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  238. that is hyperbole and you are hyperbolulic

    oh, feets, you have such a knack for irony.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  239. nevertheless

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  240. @Kevin M:Don’t confuse accepting a choice of evils as an honorable position.

    So those guys who jumped from the towers on 9/11 to avoid the fire, were they dishonorable?

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  241. @Kevin M:How about, you have your drone all ready to kill bin Ladin but he’s got a five-year-old niece on his lap. You can take the shot, or not. Choice of evils. Dishonorable?

    Trapped in a life raft with the corpse of one other survivor. Starve to death, or cannibalism? Dishonorable to choose between evils?

    Seriously, buddy, you are not thinking this through. Life sometimes only ever gives you a choice of evils, regardless of how you feel about it.

    The next President will either be one of those two people, barring some unforeseen event. Voting for the pro-choice, carbon-taxing, gun-grabbing politicians posing as libertarians will not affect that outcome.

    One of those two evils will happen and you must decide how you will order your life around it.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  242. why do cannibals hate clowns

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  243. Kevin M,

    Let’s reserve the characterization of “evil” for ISIS and Chairman Mao, and Hitler, and people like that, eh?
    Trump’s a bit of a con-artist, and a jerk, but he’s not evil.

    Our current President strangely sympathizes with people who want to destroy the Jewish state, and who cut people’s heads off. He’s closer to evil than Trump is.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  244. Trump’s evil. And someone who mocks prayer has no stock in defining evil.

    John Hitchcock (2dbce8)

  245. The funny thing is Mr. Trump isn’t evil at all he’s actual a deeply good person who wants to help America (and for sure not do piggy stench all up in it)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  246. Everyone who voted for Trump in the primaries has already voted once for Hillary.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  247. Way to beg the question, Gabriel. No one’s forcing me to choose between Trump or Clinton. I can vote for somebody better. And I can (and will) blame Trump/Clinton supporters for whichever piece of sh*t president they foist upon me.

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  248. CS,

    Anyone who would put himself forward to lead a nation when he is so MANIFESTLY unsuited to the task, risking the ruin of all so that he can prove to everyone he’s not stupid like his daddy said, that person is either evil or so crazy as there not to be any difference.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  249. Mr. Trump is in your kitchen baking you a casserole

    gonna put it in you mouth

    gonna make you taste it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  250. they either gonna do the pig or the punkin-head all up in us, feets. I for one blame the voters.

    this is obvious to anyone willing to do the analysis

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  251. they’re silly monkeys for sure

    but i think they’re ready for something new not four more years of poop poop poop

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  252. you have a punitive disposition

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  253. Kevin M,

    Trump’s a narcissist — that’s why he chose to ran for President.
    He’s a con-artist, a jerk, a showboat, a big mouth, and a punk, but he’s not evil.
    ‘Evil’ is Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Bin Laden, ISIS, et al.

    Most (but not all) people who run for President — especially in this media age — do so because they have an ego.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  254. you like lock stock and barrel to Mr. The Donald’s oogie boogie

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  255. ‘the beatings will continue till morale improves,’ and they’ve microagressed the first amendment, amended the second, and probably deleted the third, (you never know with these folk) well then the economy will go voom,

    narciso (d1f714)

  256. i just wanna have a president that’s nice

    this is my one thing i’m asking that’s why it would be really appreciated if you would help beat that piggy

    then if Mr. Trump does anything after that when he’s doing president that you don’t like I’ll help you abjure it

    that’s a more than fair deal i think

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  257. well nice don’t enter into it, w allowed ted kennedy to screen thirteen days, and write the nclb bill, how did that work out,

    narciso (d1f714)

  258. I pre-abjure it.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  259. a coin toss in new mexico saved us from president manbearpig, we had a margin of 536, when you winnowed the absentee veterans out of the count,

    narciso (d1f714)

  260. narciso, do they even have coins in New Mexico? (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  261. Either Trump or Hillary (or their appointed successors should God be merciful to America and take them to His bosom) will be President.

    The thing to focus on is a Congress to maybe keep them in check. Will it be a GOP Congress? No, such a suggestion is to laugh at. The GOP Congress is the reason we got Trump. The GOP caves. It is the Democrats who fight. With either Trump or Hillary, a GOP Congress will be like having no Congress at all except that we will be paying the drones.

    No, the best choice is to elect a Democrat Congress. A Democrat Congress will fight Trump (in the very remote possibility that America’s insanity progresses). With Hillary as President, individual Democrat congresscritters, mindful of their re-election, will not give her all she wants. She is not popular or likable or even a people person and she will not have many friends willing to stick their political necks out for her.

    No matter how you vote for President, vote Democrat for House and Senate.

    nk the strategical (dbc370)

  262. I do recall that anecdote, of course tapper and co, were focusing the microscope on south florida, at the time, they ignored that hillsborough allowed ineligible voters an opportunity,

    right nk, what do they call the fancy liquor common to the peninsula,

    narciso (d1f714)

  263. knee slapper, nk!!!

    mg (31009b)

  264. metaxa, I remember that from james hougan, who apprised me of other things like the democratic version of gemstone, fidelifacts,

    narciso (d1f714)

  265. Maxwell House.

    Even in my drinking days, I did not drink Metaxa. Most Greeks of my acquaintance don’t, except at funerals, wakes, and memorial services. It is considered a drink for sad events. Or were you thinking of ouzo? That is a binge liquor.

    nk the strategical (dbc370)

  266. nk the strategical,

    I think Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi share the same strategy as you.
    Only they admit they want Democrats to win.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  267. well I thought it was a more sophisticated concoction, really a red queen/schumer/norma desmond is like crossing the streams,

    narciso (d1f714)

  268. “Only they”? I just admitted that I want Democrats to win.

    I said it when the primary season started. Here. More than a year ago. “If Trump is the nominee, the GOP should die. Just lie down and die. Or just plain die.”

    nk the consistent (dbc370)

  269. I was slightly off with senator harrison,* apparently only mr. latoya jackson, (gordon) had the gumption to go after him, I wonder if nate heller will venture that far into the future,

    * the reid character in casino,

    narciso (d1f714)

  270. it plays possum often enough, this is why I paraphrase warren starr ‘what are they good for,’

    narciso (d1f714)

  271. A Democrat Congress will fight Trump (in the very remote possibility that America’s insanity progresses).

    nk the strategical (dbc370) — 10/3/2016 @ 5:02 pm

    What are some things the Democrat Congress will fight Trump on?

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  272. the wall, the tax cut, defense increase,

    narciso (d1f714)

  273. I just read a Nate Heller short story in an anthology edited by Mickey Spillane. The only other stuff I’ve read from Max Allan Collins were the Quarry novels a long time ago. He’s not from Chicago, he’s from somewhere downstate, a place called Iowa.

    nk the consistent (dbc370)

  274. the wall, the tax cut, defense increase,

    narciso (d1f714) — 10/3/2016 @ 5:34 pm

    I want to know what nk wants the Democrats to fight him on.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  275. yes, muscatine, but he’s done a lot of research on the subject, his last concerned the cia, joe mccarthy and the rosenbergs,

    narciso (d1f714)

  276. Replacing the Lincoln Memorial with a nude statue of Melania. Declaring war on Denmark. Making Swedish the official language of the United States. Lowering the age of consent to six. Things like that.

    nk (dbc370)

  277. Speaking of Max Allan Collins, illary’s going to take us down the road to perdition.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  278. if one considers the parallel with justinian, that won’t really be major priorities,

    narciso (d1f714)

  279. I don’t know what Trump will do that will need to be opposed, and neither does anybody else including Trump himself.

    nk (dbc370)

  280. The Road To Perdition was good. That was a very accurate portrayal of Frank Nitti, BTW, unlike the way The Untouchables (TV and movie) showed him.

    nk (dbc370)

  281. I don’t know what Trump will do that will need to be opposed, and neither does anybody else including Trump himself.

    nk (dbc370) — 10/3/2016 @ 5:42 pm

    What are some possible things you imagine him doing that the Democrats would likely oppose him on and that the Republicans wouldn’t?

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  282. you approve kevin,

    Why would I approve that?

    Not all evil people are Hitler. Hillary isn’t Hitler. Huey Long wasn’t Hitler. Stalin wasn’t Hitler. OK, maybe Pol Pot was Hitler. but he’s a special case.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  283. true, but billie drago, plays crazy psycho to a tee, besides how else would ness get his revenge if malone isn’t killed by him,

    narciso (d1f714)

  284. ‘Evil’ is Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Bin Laden, ISIS, et al.

    Tell me, was Madoff evil? Or just a con man? He didn’t kill anyone directly, just ruined countless lives.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  285. No matter how you vote for President, vote Democrat for House and Senate.

    That this might make any kind of sense tells you just how perverted this election year is.

    Here’s a better plan. Everyone stays home. We tell them that they all suck by refusing to choose between two parties that both deserve to die. 16% turnout.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  286. I believe nk wants the Republicans to lose the House and Senate just to be able to say Trump was a total disaster and ha ha on you stupid Trumpers. I’m not being facetious.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  287. doesn’t work that way, kevin, he did take exception with the 86 tax ‘reform’ because it pulled the chenga bloc out of the s & l pyramid scheme, a similar thing happened with the reset teaser rates on commercial real estate, honestly I think of alan greenspan as evil,

    narciso (d1f714)

  288. Kevin M,

    Percentage of turnout doesn’t mean a hill of beans.
    If only 2% of the electorate votes, the results still stand.
    See, you want to win an argument on paper, and what we’re telling you is that there are real consequences to an election. It’s not academic — it’s reality.

    Bill Clinton won two terms without ever winning 50% of the vote.
    Yet Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer still sit on the Supreme Court, huh?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  289. The examples I gave in my 5:39 pm comment are as good as any. Trump is a demented loony who himself does not know his own mind.

    I believe nk wants the Republicans to lose the House and Senate just to be able to say Trump was a total disaster and ha ha on you stupid Trumpers.

    Not quite. I want *the drones of the Republican Party* to lose their House and Senate seats and committee chairs because they have been betraying *the Republican constituency* for a good many years up to and including, but not limited to, allowing Trump to get the nomination, and there’s no reason to believe that they will be any better in the text term.

    nk (dbc370)

  290. that happens in the primary, unless you want her to rule unopposed,

    narciso (d1f714)

  291. The game is rigged, narciso. There I agree with Trump. For no one more than the incumbent and nowhere more than in the primaries. From the election laws to the political machines built with patronage, cronyism and graft.

    nk (dbc370)

  292. Ironic, eh? The one dam’ time when they could have put their corrupt system to a good purpose ….

    nk (dbc370)

  293. remember who had the majority of endorsements, and they served little use, the plan was to bury trump with an ad blitz like they did to newt and santorum, although murphy has a skill not only to shoot his own foot, but the trigger hand as well.

    narciso (d1f714)

  294. Would you say that Trump is a media triumph? That they genuinely influenced, in a very significant way, the Republican primary elections?

    nk (dbc370)

  295. to the degree that he was willing to engage on all platforms,

    http://observer.com/2016/10/nypd-says-chelsea-bombers-choice-of-location-likely-random/

    but his message was more important than the medium, is this a vaudeville act?

    narciso (d1f714)

  296. @Cruz Supporter, Kevin M: I was reading the Constitution today, and I could find no reference in it to “mandate” or % of popular vote restricting the office of the Presidency in any way.

    Probably because in 1789 not very many adult men could vote, and the President is elected by the Electoral College anyway.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  297. There should be a Mount Rushless
    Juan,Mittens,Boosh and Soros

    mg (31009b)

  298. #306 Gabriel Hanna,

    Right, the NeverTrumpers are merely looking for victories on paper. They think if he wins albeit via a depressed turnout, it somehow will marginalize or even de-legitimize his election.
    As if that would have any effect upon his legal authority to govern.
    A “mandate” is largely an academic exercise that only talking heads talk about over a bowl of clam chowder at McCormick & Schick’s in DC.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  299. Being evil comes naturally,
    in little things here and there at first,
    but it does not take effort.
    Being good, anti-evil takes effort and work.

    Selfish ambition alone leads to evil, and the more narcissistic the greater the evil in less time.

    Trump is not a good man, I would not trust him with anything,
    that he is likely better than Clinton doesn’t mean much.
    Yes, he is better than Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Charles Manson, and a whole bunch of other people.

    Was Pilate not evil because he wanted to let Jesus go?
    Were the people in the crowd not evil because they didn’t actually do the crucifixion?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  300. no, because he extinguished the lives of samaritans, zealots and other threats to the empire, he just didn’t want to cause a ruckus if need be,

    narciso (d1f714)

  301. I don’t have enough money to hire a lawyer I could trust in signing a contract with Trump, why should I trust him with the presidency?

    This is getting off of the main point, you are arguing trees and ignoring what forest we’re in.

    It is pathetic that this is our choice, it is a condemning statement on our nation.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  302. Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 10/3/2016 @ 7:05 pm

    True. But it will help instill vertebrae in politicians, so are more inclined to oppose the attempts at executive expansion.

    At the moment we have to depend on private individuals getting in front of sympathetic judges.

    Kishnevi (c62fd3)

  303. @Kishnevi:But it will help instill vertebrae in politicians,

    When did that happen? Was George W. Bush more effective in 2004 with his 50.7% of the popular vote than Bill Clinton with his 49.2% in 1996?

    Is Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s vote on the Court prorated by Bill Clinton’s share of the popular vote?

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  304. Kishnevi,

    You guys are always talking about this mythical “stand” against Democrat executive overreach.
    It’s like listening to Charlie Brown fantasize about how the next baseball season, they’re really going to win some games. We keep hearing all this strategery about how if illary becomes President, then that will finally force! the GOP Congress to take a stand. (LOL)
    Yet you guys are the ones who’ve told us that McConnell and Ryan (and Boehner before him) are not worth a damn.

    illary’s going to be President. And she’s going to steamroll everyone and anyone who gets in her way. At least if Trump is President, he’ll probably have Kellyanne Conway whispering in his ear rather than Huma Abedin.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  305. As Artie Johnson used to say, veeery interesting.

    In Defense of the LA Times poll

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  306. “It is pathetic that this is our choice, it is a condemning statement on our nation.”

    MD in Philly

    Yeah. Bingo. So why ratify it by putting either name on YOUR ballot?

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  307. You are pathetic, Elephant Stone.

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  308. “Being evil comes naturally,
    in little things here and there at first,
    but it does not take effort.

    Sure it does. It merely requires effort in a bad cause. Lazy people won’t do much for the cause of good or evil.

    “Being good, anti-evil takes effort and work.”

    Against yourself, or against the world? And how do you know when which is more necessary to resist?

    “Selfish ambition alone leads to evil,”

    Hahahaha…NO. Ideological ambition and religious purity spiraling leads to great evil far more reliably than good old-fashioned selfish ambitions, which is often circumscribed by personal satiation or the realities of running an empire:

    Having destroyed the educated, Chang set about murdering the merchants, then the women, then the officials. Finally he gave orders that his own soldiers should slaughter each other. He ordered the feet of his officer’s wives to be cut off and to make a mound of them. On top of the pile he placed the feet of his favoured concubine. He tallied the ears and feet which his bodyguard hacked from the bodies of villagers from the remote districts, and he stated his reasons for annihilation on a stone tablet which he caused to be erected in his memory:

    Heaven brought forth innumerable things to support man.
    Man has not brought forth one thing to recompense heaven.
    Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill! Kill!

    “and the more narcissistic the greater the evil in less time.”

    Nah. Narcissists have nothing on moral busybodies.

    “Trump is not a good man, I would not trust him with anything,
    that he is likely better than Clinton doesn’t mean much.”

    That’s because you’re more personally offended by narcissists than busybodies, because you’re a doctor. That you don’t acknowledge this is evidence of your personal lack of people to challenge you, so us Internet trolls have to do it.

    “Yes, he is better than Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Charles Manson, and a whole bunch of other people.”

    Clinton, Obama, Paul Ryan, the second Bush, Clinton the cismale, maybe not Pat Buchanan…

    “Was Pilate not evil because he wanted to let Jesus go?”

    No, he was just fundamentally cowardly when push came to shove, much like many of our own GOPers.

    “Were the people in the crowd not evil because they didn’t actually do the crucifixion?”

    No less than the protestors who cover for the crimes of various criminals among their own by their presence and implied threat. Are you SURE the Biblical angle is the one you want to attack me from?

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  309. I was aware of the Taiping rebellion but this was a new thing to me, much as Ivan prefigured Czar Koba,

    narciso (d1f714)

  310. If character mattered, then Kasich would be the nominee and then hands down winner… just ask him

    steveg (5508fb)

  311. @Leviticus:You are pathetic, Elephant Stone.

    Never figured out why some of the regulars are always accusing commenters of being other people.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  312. Because they are other people. Never figured out why regulars felt the need to change up their handles.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  313. Simon Jester was writing the other day about all the bile coming from the Trump side here, when the host has derogative names for people he disagrees with (trumpkins, shills etc) and while some of those names are earned, in most cases the use of those names smears everyone, not just the idealogues.
    Its his blog and he pays for the bandwidth, but its not like he always takes the highest road… overall, he does real well, but everyone here slips into negativity.
    Today I read a lot about drones from someone droning about drones.

    Everyone here is so into their own glass house around here (including me) that they seriously go into a post and call names about people calling names.

    Well at least we all still have passion

    steveg (5508fb)

  314. My guess? They embarrassed themselves under prior handles, and want to start anew. American! except that it discounts the value of personal integrity.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  315. @Leviticus:Because they are other people.

    Erm, you have some evidence?

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  316. Dystopia Max has (inadvertently, stupidly) admitted to being “hunson abedeer” on another threat, Gerald A. Why is it hard to believe that people switch up their handles for some (stupid, transparent) effect?

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  317. @Leviticus:n another threat, Gerald A.

    Maybe you think people are using other names because you don’t keep track of them really well? I’m not Gerald A.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  318. Lack of people to challenge me…
    Because I am a doctor….

    That’s a new one…

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  319. Whoops. Sorry. Weird mental association on my part.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  320. Dystopia Max is Christoph. And hunson abedeer and itcamefromthenightosphere and random and that’s all I care to remember. Christoph is a long-term recurrent furunculosis on this blog. His present infestation is Nazism. Others have included anti-circumcision, assisted suicide and recreational spanking. His new trick is to use two two socks under two different proxy IPs for strategic redundancy and deniability — if he gets out in one he can deny being the other.

    nk (dbc370)

  321. *gets outed*

    nk (dbc370)

  322. Here is at least one example of a thread in which dumbass hunstopia maxedeer outed itself as a thing using multiple handles.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  323. @nk:His new trick is to use two two socks under two different proxy IPs for strategic redundancy and deniability — if he gets out in one he can deny being the other.

    Pretty slick, but it looks like you figured him out. He’d better get 7 proxies.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  324. @Leviticus: So who’s Elephant Stone and what’s your evidence for that?

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  325. Do you want to address the link that I just provided, Gabriel? What with the 7 proxies bit? Or are you shocked – shocked! – to think that there’s sock-puppeting on this site?

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  326. Elephant Stone is also an old commenter who got banned. He was here for a long time — long enough for his commenting style to be learned. More than one person, other than Leviticus, have noticed that Cruz Supporter has that same commenting style.

    nk (dbc370)

  327. Or are you just trying to distract from your support of a sh*t candidate?

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  328. Dustin and narciso were two of the others that nk is mentioning.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  329. I’ve been here for 10 years, now. Part of my childhood, and all of my adult life. You know how many times I butted heads with JD? More times than I can count. I respect JD. I miss JD.

    The Trump folks don’t want to talk about ideas, because they don’t have any. Caveman sh*t. Sticking their hands in a fire and wondering why they get burned.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  330. @Leviticus: I saw people accusing him, but didn’t see anything I understood to be evidence.

    Or are you shocked – shocked! – to think that there’s sock-puppeting on this site?

    I know that happens. For all I know all the commenters here are the same person. Doesn’t affect the statements they make, what handle they use.

    Or are you just trying to distract from your support of a sh*t candidate?

    Is this at me? Yeah, I don’t think conservatives who care about conservatism should try to undermine the only person with a realistic chance of defeating Hillary Clinton, and if that makes me a “supporter” then I suppose I am. But only in the Buckley sense of “the most conservative electable candidate”.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  331. Comment 343. Ok. Better for the thread to devolve into talking about other commenters than to talking about you-know-who.

    nk (dbc370)

  332. Yeah. Good point. Goodnight, y’all.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  333. I’ve been here for 10 years, now. Part of my childhood, and all of my adult life.

    Ah, little Leviticus. I remember him! It really does affect me to think that this site may have played some small role in your intellectual development. Did you ever read the Thomas Sowell book on Economics? If not, it’s always there. It will turn your life upside down if and when you get around to it.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  334. And goodnight!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  335. I read about half of it before exams got the better of me and I lost momentum. One of my dogs chewed it up, but it’s still intact and readable. I’ll finish it someday, but I think I know what Sowell is saying, and I don’t disagree with it.

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  336. Receiving the book itself was an eye-opener on its own.

    Leviticus (9d0fa2)

  337. If you read half of it, you got a very, very good idea of the fact that resources are scarce and that allocating them is the function of the economy.

    Receiving the book itself was an eye-opener on its own.

    Awwwww. It was nuthin’.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  338. narciso,

    I saw that story. Is that insane or what? Between that and the “let’s drone Assange” story, I’m starting to think this Hillary woman may not be the wonderful person I was told she was.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  339. inspector dreyfus to the rescue, maybe I should call him renault, as in the vichy officer in casablanca,

    narciso (d1f714)

  340. I thought we were going to drone Snowden.
    This Obama guy has trouble pulling the trigger

    steveg (5508fb)

  341. well that was a fairly popular notion in 2010, at the time though, they really hadn’t breached her server yet,

    narciso (d1f714)

  342. Who will charge the FBI for destruction of evidence,
    That’s what I want to know.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  343. I’ll go with Snopes on the Assange story, especially since the other outlet pushing it is Russia Today.

    nk (dbc370)

  344. Wikileaks is like alt.hundemeister in trying to make itself more important than it is.

    nk (dbc370)

  345. Dystopia Max has (inadvertently, stupidly) admitted to being “hunson abedeer” on another threat, Gerald A. Why is it hard to believe that people switch up their handles for some (stupid, transparent) effect?

    Leviticus (03bf59) — 10/3/2016 @ 8:09 pm

    Huh?

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  346. Philippine leader Rodrigo Duterte on Tuesday told U.S. President Barack Obama to “go to hell” and said the United States had refused to sell some weapons to his country but he did not care because Russia and China were willing suppliers.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  347. After almost eight years, there are still people who cannot stand the thought of a black man in the White House. Duterte would never have said that to a white President.

    nk (dbc370)

  348. i never supported the now defunct filipino restaurant down the block cause of they used those mail order food-picture posters in the windows

    which is good cause of the lesbian foodie place going in there looks like it has a lot more to offer anyway

    i’m very excited

    they named it after one of their moms btw i don’t think they’re trying to do arcane lesbian humor on you

    but they can be terribly clever, these foodie lesbians

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  349. Lesbian food is more fattening than other food. It’s a scientific fact established by multi-million dollar government-funded studies.

    nk (dbc370)

  350. i’ll have to be super-careful

    i had to stop ordering from this place

    so so amazingly good and they really feed you well for not a lot of money but everything’s cream and butter – or at least the seafood entrees i kept going back to are

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  351. Sorry, Gerald A – that was for Gabriel Hanna, not you.

    Leviticus (efada1)


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