Patterico's Pontifications

9/26/2016

Presidential Debate Open Thread: Ready or Not

Filed under: General — Dana @ 4:35 pm



[guest post by Dana]

My main thought right about now is, please God, let it end quickly.

What an extraordinarily low bar of expectation for tonight: Trump has to avoid saying “blood” and “women,” and Hillary just has to remain upright.

With increasingly tight polls reflecting the candidates in a dead heat in spite of Big Media’s efforts to push one crappy candidate over the other, both obviously go into this debate with an equal opportunity to win.

And just to mix it up, while Mark Cuban will be sitting front and center trolling Trump, Trump will also have a few special guests in the audience. Expect Benghazi to come up, and expect Hillary to have a coincidentally-timed coughing spasm as a result…

So, if you are willing to sacrifice a few hours and watch, have your adult beverage of choice ready. You’ll need it.

If you’re not going to watch, have it ready anyway because one of these two people is going to become our next president.

–Dana

UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Hey guys. I am in the house.

559 Responses to “Presidential Debate Open Thread: Ready or Not”

  1. I didn’t list who’s airing the debate, but here’s a list: ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, CNBC, Fox, Fox News, MSNBC, and PBS NewsHour, Telemundo, and Univision.

    Dana (995455)

  2. @1. You forgot the best: C-SPAN.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  3. <– predicts JR will Trump Maudie by mentioning thr passing of Arnold Palmer– which would be par for the course.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  4. Oh, shoot, you’re right. Thanks DCSCA.

    Dana (995455)

  5. hillary could has a blood clots all up in anywhere at anytime

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. Story goes JFK had a woman before his first debate w/The Big Dick 56 years ago tonight.

    Will Hillary?

    ‘A woman is only a woman but a good cigar’s a smoke.’ WC Fields

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  7. leave it to the pig not to understand that everyone but her thinks Mark Cuban is an obnoxious smarmy unattractive douchebag

    she’d be better off co-branding with a pantsless lena dunham

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. http://www.headlineoftheday.com/

    A Tale of Two Lester Holt Interviews

    Click on headline to view tonight’s moderator interview both Hillary and Trump

    Read more: http://www.headlineoftheday.com/#ixzz4LPOfFpyI

    Separate interviews.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  9. Hillary will be appropriately drugged up to peak at the right time; catheterized, so she can pee anytime; and with her new hairstyle covering her earpiece. She’ll do fine physically.

    But she’s still a crappy candidate who lost to Obama and would have lost to Sanders without the corruption.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  10. Fur ball or cuckquean?
    priapic vulgarian
    will not go away

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  11. Mark Cuban will be sitting front and center trolling Trump

    Cuban is a crutch. Another signal of weakness.

    Those battleground state polls have Maudie’s people rattled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  12. hey stinkypig looky here

    what’s that remind you of piggy?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  13. not a big fan but
    I hope the amusing goof
    mops the floor with her

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  14. 1. Practically everybody. And it will be on the radio, too. It will also be live streamed across the web in ways that weren’t possible even just four years ago. Facebook and Twitter will carry the debate live.

    It is projected to have an audience greater than any Superbowl (except that Superbowls are undercounted because of all the people watching in out of anyone’s home locations.)

    The most-viewed debate according to Nielsen, was the single Ronald Reagan-Jimmy Carter debate in 1980.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  15. I would have the parents and other family members of the Benghazi heroes sitting front and center.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  16. Debate prep:

    Maudie– risk stilettos or go with the flats?

    JR– my red Chinese power tie or my green Arnold Palmer Masters tie?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  17. here are numerous choices for to click and see Mr. Trump debate with the pig

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  18. repeating what I wrote in the last “Trump” thread:

    There’s an easy way to tell when Hillary is lying and when she might be telling the truth:

    If she cites a source, or an authority for a statement of fact or opinion, including “people tell me” or “I read” or anything that attributes the thought or the claim to other people:

    It’s a LIE.

    If she just says something on her own say so, and it is totally unsourced and she gives absolutely no authority for it and does not try to back it up:

    It’s the TRUTH,
    Or at least the conventional wisdom.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  19. Wheel of Fortune is still a thing? And when did Monday Night Football move from ABC to ESPN? Or is it only for tonight?

    nk (dbc370)

  20. rasping geezer queen
    yes your time is gonna come
    justice will be served

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  21. Medical alert: Chris Matthews- “Arnold Palmer hasn’t been in a tournament in 50 years…. and they love the guy.’

    Digest your snacks and dinner properly– don’t watch this jerk.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. My main thought right about now is, please God, let it end quickly.

    This is the most fun political season ever.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  23. be prepared Matthews
    he will get jolt up his leg
    he will wet himself

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  24. Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/26/2016 @ 4:54 pm

    I would have the parents and other family members of the Benghazi heroes sitting front and center.

    Well, he will have “Oz” (his radio call sign) there – the oldest member of the annex security team at Benghazi, ex-Marine and ex-police chief of his Colorado town, Mark Geist, 46 years old at the time of the attack.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  25. this is the basket from where the moderators are picked,

    http://freebeacon.com/politics/former-clinton-press-secretary-ensures-blackout-of-book/

    narciso (d1f714)

  26. Ann Allthouse’s prposed drinking game:

    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/09/an-althouse-blog-first-since-i-dont-see.html

    Trump saying “Believe me” is not in here? But she does have “We have to do it” and “We have no choice.”

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  27. Wanna hear that piggy squeal?

    Ask “Alexa, play CNN on TuneIn” to listen to the debates.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  28. if lester crowley doesn’t ask what they gonna do about the scary clown horde then for goddamn sure you know the government’s in on it

    i’ve said this all along

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  29. Maudie has more crutches on air and in the audience than in the ER at Bellevue.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  30. @24- A mother should stand up and shout ‘you killed my son!’

    Hubub will ensure, both candidates will feign outrage then JR will take the points on the board.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  31. hey stinkypig i got your trigger right here

    pull my finger

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  32. Hey guys. Here to watch the two clowns clown it up.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  33. hush now gather close

    while The People are distracted with their breads and circus we turn our gimlet eye to the high-minded happenings in an enchanted land of myth fable and high adventure

    For the Right, Evan McMullin Might Be the Last Valid Candidate Running for President

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  34. What’s probably going to botehr me the most are some half of the questions.

    But the most informative or revealing things will be some of the things that the candidates aay. There’ll be things to remember.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  35. happyfeet @39. Well that’s true, although narciso calls him McGuffin. He’s probably not quite up to the job, but he’s betetr, well, than either of the vice-presidential candidates probably.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  36. I guess that the Talking Heads are appropriate to this awful evening.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuoiRr6hLjg

    Simon Jester (3dbc42)

  37. Hillary Clinton will probably cite this lead front page story in today’s New Yor Times:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/26/business/economy/millions-in-us-climb-out-of-poverty-at-long-last.html

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  38. and that pedigree

    mormon cia harvardtrash sacky

    oh my goodness

    i’m a little aroused

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  39. Let The Clown Show begin!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  40. I’m counting on all y’all. I won’t be watching it.

    I’m sorry, but I won’t be reporting on the game. I found that the National Felons League disgusts me as much as the Depends Duo. Tonight, the spandex-butts were holding hands during the National Anthem.

    nk (dbc370)

  41. Trump should come out, politely thank everyone for hosting the debate, blah, blah, and politely greet Hillary with:

    Good evening, Mrs. Clinton, I hope you’re feeling well, and I look forward to a robust debate.

    And then simply nod, and look away with a benign look on his mug.

    Dana (995455)

  42. In the printed newspaper the headline went:

    WITH PAY RISING
    MILLIONS CLIMB
    OUT OF POVERTY
    ————————-
    ECONOMIC TIPPING POINT
    ——————–
    More and Better Jobs —
    Blacks and Hispanics
    Gain the Most

    This has to been planted by the Clinton campaign in some way.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  43. maybe if they used shock collars they would get on the ball, so to speak?

    narciso (d1f714)

  44. Here we go.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  45. the nfl is overpaid thugtrash

    not unlike the US Senate really

    except the Senate has air conditioning

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  46. The audience was told this is not the primary debates. They will have to hold their applause and their cheers till the end.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  47. non-profit i believe

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  48. Oh, God.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  49. He has won.

    He’s taller.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  50. It’s them. I was somehow hoping it would be someone else

    Patterico (bcf524)

  51. Mark Cuban

    sat silently

    as Mr. Trump spoke

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  52. Apparently, one of the memes-of-the-moment is for conservatives to attack the NFL . . . .
    Whatthef*ckever — football is football, and football is cool.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  53. ugh mr. crowley’s doing gameshow host voice

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  54. Lester, you DOLT, ask the most important question: WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE PRESIDENT?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  55. Don’t look at her eyes. Seriously, don’t.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  56. she sounds like a pompous diseased lazy sickpig what wants to boss real actual working people around

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  57. She blinks slowly and meaningfully as a way to emphasize what she is saying. It’s not a good look.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  58. ‘Laying it?” Behind her head? =shrinkage=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  59. “I’d like to see more companies do profit sharing.”
    — This is a policy position?

    Icy (1dd25d)

  60. right here you can already tell the pig was slipped the questions ahead of time

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  61. Oh God she’s awful

    Patterico (bcf524)

  62. lester just couldn’t keep it in his pants

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  63. Her hair and makeup are spot on, so she’s got that going for her.

    Dana (995455)

  64. 6 years of job growth says Lester.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  65. She looks like a librarian. And old.

    He speaks like an authority.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. lol piggy bank

    my dog is running around like crazy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  67. men and their wives

    one of these poopers seems to be able to speak to them

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  68. Man… is she looped?

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  69. I wasn’t going to drink but look at them, for God’s sake.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  70. “i think that trade is an important issue”

    thank you marcia pig-ass brady

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  71. She is blinking slowly…. is she medicated??

    Dana (995455)

  72. Trump: “We must STOP our companies from leaving the United States.”
    — The federal government will stop this?

    Icy (1dd25d)

  73. She can’t deliver oneliners. Trips on them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. Snippy. She’s being SNIPPY.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  75. Maudie is already in the weeds. The meatloaf is burning, dear.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. oh god the pig what invited mark lucky clover cuban is whining about Mr. Trump’s prosperity?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  77. A VERY SMALL LOAN

    Patterico (bcf524)

  78. He has this won already.

    He’s a salesman. She’s a librarian.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  79. Enjoy it folks. I won’t watch.
    But I do have an adult beverage close at hand.

    Kishnevi (c2a547)

  80. @83- In the big city, it was.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  81. i LOVE that

    “our country’s in deep trouble”

    if pervy mitt romney had been able to say that tonight would be a very very different night

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  82. like captain pike,

    narciso (d1f714)

  83. SNIFF

    SNIFF

    SNIFF

    Patterico (bcf524)

  84. The look of absolute disgust on her face is hilarious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  85. Listening to Hillary reminds me of something I’ve forgotten. Democrats talk to me like they think I’m a stupid child. They speak in slogans about helping the Middle Class.

    I will give her half a point for her banal point that we have to trade with the other 95% of the world. Basic stuff, but probably lost on a lot of Americans.

    All that red comes across as a desperate measure to make her look alive.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  86. ‘laying it…’ which aide let that occur.

    He’s loaded for bear.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. She doesn’t understand capitalism.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  88. i don’t think the pig understands what “a perfect storm” means

    but she rhymed abyss and precipice

    so there’s that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. “STOP them from leaving.”
    — I guess ‘create a businees-friendly environment’ doesn’t sound aggressive enough.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  90. Throttle down JR.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  91. Sweet Jesus, it’s bad enough I have to watch this. Do I have to read babytalk pottymouth lunacy here, too?

    I swear to God, we deserve all this crap.

    Simon Jester (3dbc42)

  92. she’s regurgitating mama bird vomit

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  93. Surprise here: On a personal level, they’re both very friendly toward each other. She calls him Donald, he calls her Secretary Clinton. It sounds likes an abstruse discussion on economics which Trump is getting the better of probably. Trump’s harshness though still comes through.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  94. oh my god she grabs on tight to a platitude like it was her favorite vibrator

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  95. NAFTA.

    Dana (995455)

  96. yes yes omaha somewhere in middle america getting right to the heart of matters

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. “If we’re actually gonna be honest”
    — SNIPPY Hillary!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  98. 83. Patterico (bcf524) — 9/26/2016 @ 6:13 pm

    A 83. A VERY SMALL LOAN

    Trump did not repeat his $1 million claim (whih was a gift) He may be agreeing with the $14 million figure.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  99. dukakis in a bra

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  100. Body language. She has turned away from him.

    He’s right about NAFTA. It’s not an opinion.

    Home run, Donald.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. I’m with you, Simon. I can gloss over happyfeet but with the international man of hystery, too, it’s too much. I think I’ll go read I, The Jury.

    nk (dbc370)

  102. oh she’s pitiful

    she’s the absolute quintessence of everything everyone hates about american women

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  103. “Donald, I know that you live in your own reality”
    — SNIIIIIIIIIIPPPYYY!!!!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  104. Trump’sd claim about NAFTA is that Mexico has a VAT, and things sold in Mexico get a 16% tax, while anything exported from Mexico is not taxed.

    Now they’re arguiong and contradicting each other but still not really raising their voices/

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  105. She’s rattled.

    Now we know how the Germans felt on D-Day at Normandy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. if you just listen to the audio she sounds like a nun

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  107. Just goad her into going into that strident, hectoring, lecturing, shrieking voice she has

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  108. Thank the Good Lord above for bourbon.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  109. Trump is talking over her like a child. It’s very disrespectful (not to her, but to the American people who deserve to hear her asinine BS so they can make up their minds).

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  110. oh my goodness

    i kinda wish lester crowley would step in

    that can’t be right

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  111. Hillary: People who have looked at….

    Trump manages to make a reasonable sounding argument.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  112. BIGLY ALL UP IN IT

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  113. Hillary says her home page has been turned into a fact checker.

    Trump says he has a tax cut she has a tax increase. She says she will cut debt by raising taxes on wealthy.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  114. A democrat cut regulations? Perhaps in another universe, far far away.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  115. Trump diggresses into ISIS. Claims Hillary having a plan gives it all away.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  116. This is like watching an old crotchety married couple.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  117. He needs to reign in the aggressive counter-punching just a tad. She will win ‘sympathy votes'; he will not.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  118. She is totally rattled by him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  119. Trump is talking details.. but he has this jobs leaving, like theer are only so many jobs in the world or something.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  120. @123– The Bickersons.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. the pig’s grating voice is mercilessly raking the chalkboard of america

    she actually called out loud for help from “the fact-checkers”

    yes that actually was a thing that she said

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  122. Surrender, Dorothy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  123. He’s verging on looking like a bully.

    Dana (995455)

  124. This is like watching an old crotchety married couple.
    Patterico (bcf524) — 9/26/2016 @ 6:26 pm
    — James Carville and Mary Matalin

    Icy (1dd25d)

  125. She will win ‘sympathy votes’

    lol

    the night is young

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  126. Putin will eat her lunch.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. !Hillary really has the pancake makeup heavily trowelled on tonight!

    champ (56cd04)

  128. And he needs to stop interrupting.

    Dana (995455)

  129. let us start the clock again lester snorted the pig

    charlotte in her web turned her back in disgust

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  130. He can’t shut up for 30 seconds straight.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  131. The oneliners aren’t working for her.

    This is too easy for him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  132. He’s right.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  133. hillary talking about trickling down is just gross to where you want a moist towelette handy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  134. She’s swooning. Her blood pressure must be through the roof!

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  135. Trump doesn’t understand optics.

    Dana (995455)

  136. lester is beyond useless

    poor man

    watch for him to over-correct

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  137. “Believe me”
    — Sorry, but that’s used-car-salesman language that won’t sway the undecideds.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  138. Mr. Trump is keeping the energy and beat at a very high level

    piggy needs a line of coke

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  139. ASK HIM TO PROVE HE IS BEING AUDITED BY SHOWING A LETTER FROM IRS

    Patterico (bcf524)

  140. Boom. He has won this hand down.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. @146– Nobody cares about tax returns.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  142. Congratulations that you’re a serial fraud who always gets audited.

    Unfortunately I cannot talk about Trump because Hillary’s teeth are disgusting and I can’t think anymore.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  143. She’s been chased into the weeds.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  144. he sounded so sincere and authentic when he said he was constantly audited

    and this is in an age when the IRS is a sick and festering john koskinen festival of corruption and rot

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  145. “That makes me smart”

    Patterico (bcf524)

  146. She is destroying him on this tax stuff

    Patterico (bcf524)

  147. Lipstick isn’t hew forte. The tomalie look isn’t her.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  148. lol the pig is invoking “investigative reporting”

    she sounds like a catty hoo looking for a sweet divorce settlement

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  149. the night is young
    — In this scenario, only Trump can be perceived as being a bully; although, she could (which she is doing as I type this) be perceived as being a JERK.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  150. Isn’t the FACT that she destroyed all of those emails after ordered not to known as spoiliation of evidence?

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  151. ASK HIM TO PROVE HE IS BEING AUDITED BY SHOWING A LETTER FROM IRS
    Patterico (bcf524) — 9/26/2016 @ 6:33 pm
    — HEAR HEAR times a kajillion!!!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  152. Trump is killing Killary!!

    The Emperor (e8c4c1)

  153. I don’t know, I’m asking. And if it is, why is she not under indictment right now?!?

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  154. He has won this already.

    She is totally on the defensive.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  155. please to remember that hillary’s biggest fan is unethical wells fargo slut warren buffett

    yikes

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  156. She biffed the tax return attack. His excuses are lame, but her attack — channeling Harry Reid — was (forgive me) BITCHY.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  157. She’s in the weeds.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  158. I’m starting to feel like I don’t care much for either one of them.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  159. She goes to the crutches in the audience.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  160. maybe the third whirl skeeze-pope can saint her before the election?

    def time for a hail mary

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  161. She doesnt want to acknowledge the rules of capitalism.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  162. 165… Starting? Ha!

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  163. SNIFF

    Patterico (bcf524)

  164. when she speaks out loud she nevernot reminds me of a chortling animal farm pig

    two legs muy bueno

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  165. Trump is panicking the entire time. Totally reactive. Hillary looks more calm and closer to a leader. Trump sounds like a con man explaining his various excuses for this and that. I can hear America shaking its head at his BS.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  166. Oh thank God they’re finally going to talk about race.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  167. yes yes government employees are clueless when they try to interact with the market

    Mr. Trump is right

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  168. Race “determines where people live”? REALLY???

    Icy (1dd25d)

  169. omg i’m so totally triggered right now i think i just looted a convenience store

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  170. He sure likes to talk about himself and his stuff.

    Rich (ddc02c)

  171. Her eyes look tired.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  172. Law and order is a winner for me.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  173. she sounds like a clotty brochure what you quicken your step when you walk past

    we have to tackle the plague

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  174. Luntz says he’s doing better with undecideds even than with the leaners… http://ace.mu.nu/archives/366034.php

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  175. Clinton is trying to conflate bankruptcy chapter 11 with “stiffing the little guy”

    Bob23

    Justifiably. Trump never keeps his promises. If you make a deal with him, he’s going to screw you. He doesn’t pay up and then says that’s just business. Integrity isn’t important to him.

    Same as with his various wives, some of his kids, his political promises to the left and then the right. Voting for him because of his promises is an incredibly foolish thing to do. That’s Hillary’s ultimate point, though she can’t explain it because of her simplistic manner of speech and she probably thinks Americans are too stupid to understand.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  176. @173- Put down the bong. Maudie looks like a hare being chased through the brush by a hunter on horseback.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  177. rump said it was his lawyers told him not to release his tax returns Hillary gave awhole bunch of reasons Trump possibly might not want to do it, none of which sound like what alawyer might say.

    They got into e-mails and Trump’s business career, and the federal government squandering money – Trump intejected taht if he’d oasid more taxes it would have a quandered too and Trump stiffing people.

    Trump a few times said it was business (hoping housing prices carashed) or he was smart (in not payingtaxes)

    It didn’t gee resolved.

    And now the topic is race relations.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  178. Trump said it was his lawyers told him not to release his tax returns Hillary gave awhole bunch of reasons Trump possibly might not want to do it, none of which sound like what alawyer might say.

    They got into e-mails and Trump’s business career, and the federal government squandering money – Trump intejected taht if he’d oasid more taxes it would have a quandered too and Trump stiffing people.

    Trump a few times said it was business (hoping housing prices carashed) or he was smart (in not paying taxes)

    It didn’t gee resolved.

    And now the topic is race relations.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  179. Hillary will always have nit-witted backers. That’s just a fact.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  180. Lester the Fact Checker!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  181. He’s right.

    Lester should just ask why they want to be president.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  182. Trump has a good argument about stop and frisk.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  183. Sammy, it was funnier when you called him “rump”.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  184. nonono they’ve told Lester Crowley he’s not allowed to let this evening become Mr. Trump vs. the media

    he has his orders

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  185. We’re halfway through this.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  186. “Help me obiwanfactcheckers, you’re my only hope!”

    — Princess Liyah

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  187. @196- roflmao

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  188. Oooooooooooo. She’s going into Maudie mode! Preach at me, Maude. Lecture me.

    The meatloaf is burning.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  189. Trump very good argument about crime, because it’s a good argument anyone can use.

    Hillary wants to say black communities aren’t so bad – churches, busnessess.

    Crime half of what it was in 1991. Acknowledges we don’t want to creep up.

    Not true that byoung black man more likely to be incarcerated. Exactly the opposite of the truth.

    Talking about guns.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  190. chappaqua pig is down wit da struggle

    lovin it and lovin that gun safety

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  191. too dangerous to fly too dangerous to buy

    so say we all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  192. “Common-sense gun safety measures”
    “Prohibition of people on the terrorist watch list”
    — Swing to the LEFT!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  193. WHY AM I FEELING THIS WAY

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  194. #115

    Are you drinking Texas Bourbon?

    steveg (5508fb)

  195. He AGREES with her about prohibiting people on the ‘no-fly list’ from purchasing guns?!?!?!?!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  196. Ooooooooo. There’s her head nod!!!!

    Like a plastic dog in the back window of Uncle Moe’s 1974 Cadillac.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  197. He AGREES with her about prohibiting people on the ‘no-fly list’ from purchasing guns?!?!?!?!

    he’s picking his battles

    that’s so refreshing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  198. She looks terrible.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  199. Trump says Hillasry forst used term super-predator.

    Trump attributes all murder reduction to stop and frisk.

    Hillary says murders have continued to drop. Trump says she is wrong. Here’s one where the fact checkers may give one to Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  200. oh god she’s clearly running out of essential fluids

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  201. Is Rev Bacon in the front row tonight?

    Pinandpuller (969d18)

  202. 30 years of Preparation H.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  203. I love how dedicated Mr. Trump is to the well-being of average americans

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  204. Quesrion about birtherism.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  205. Birtherism is such sucker bait.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  206. birther the giver the satisfy the ISIS the JOBS HELL YEAH

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  207. His she-started-it ‘defense’ on the birther issue is perhaps the most tired-sounding thing that he tries to float out there. MOVE ALONG, Donald!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  208. food stamp is skeevy

    i wonder where he was born i wanna send flowers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  209. the pig is being very meta is this a pink floyd concert

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  210. Gee, Maudie. Your husband said he was the first black president.

    Racial healing. WTF. Lester, have you looked in the mirror? You’re black and the NBC News anchor.

    A black president for 8 years… and he went high alright. Was it coke or crack back in the day?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  211. Yeah, holt is a democrat, he won’t mention Clinton’s surrogates doing her dirty work re: birther stuff. Republican my arse.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  212. his voice is so mellifluous

    i really like it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  213. Question on cybersecurity – optimum time for the Russians to email a package of Hillary’s files to every news media out there.

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  214. I challenge anyone on this blog to say if you’ve learned why Maudie wants to be president tonight beyond the belief it is ‘her turn.’ At least JR has a definitive reason you can take away from this.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  215. The major purpose of this debate is if Trump can hold his ground and seem presidential. I think that argument has been won. Advantage Trump!

    The Emperor (e8c4c1)

  216. Holt allows Clinton to call Trump a racist and doesn’t ask her to speak to the charge of her calling young black males “super predators”, which is on videotape.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  217. Wife and daughter say Trump is a jerk and can’t help but interrupt.
    They cannot see how anyone could vote for Trump.
    My wife is pro-life registered Republican, but she can’t see voting for Trump.

    I watched long enough for Trump to say he will be living on Pennsylvania Ave one way or another, his project is under budget and ahead of schedule and he has a great company…

    Very sad 😢

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  218. Hillary Clinton : hacking expert.

    Fangbeer (b4a2f7)

  219. Putin hack invite claim. Lame. Even for a former SoS. He may have already hacked her emails.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  220. Endorsed “by ICE”???

    Patterico (bcf524)

  221. the russians are not understanding the things they’re supposed to understand in their tiny alcoholic russian babyheads

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  222. bernie sanders got hosed

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  223. This is awful.

    mg (31009b)

  224. when Mr. Trump speaks i feel safe

    why is that?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  225. Uh oh.

    Barron Trump is to cybersecurity as Amy Carter was to nuclear disbarment talks??

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  226. I don’t know why, feets. Some people felt safe when Mohammad Atta spoke. “Dear, that nice man won’t let them hurt us.”

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  227. lester crowley’s like that little boy what got drained by baron harkonnen

    luckless

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  228. My cyber secuity plan involves placing all of our nations secrets in a third floor apartment bathroom closet.

    Fangbeer (b4a2f7)

  229. disarmament

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. Cos Trump’s yo daddy, happyfeet?

    nk (dbc370)

  231. he’s picking his battles

    that’s so refreshing

    And O’Brien smiles and sees that Happyfeet really DOES love Big Brother.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  232. lester does gameshow voice about serious things

    it’s creepy clown

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  233. Cyber security and he doesn’t hit her on how important it is to keep our secrets secret, and thats why we have protocols. Protocols she bypassed. Security that she compromised.

    Is he throwing this debate?

    Rich (ddc02c)

  234. Maybe they would accept her invitation to go out if she was 65 years younger.

    Fangbeer (b4a2f7)

  235. She’s full of crap.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  236. Mr. Trump is my deliverance from food stamps and obamacare

    not the pig

    she’s nasty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  237. Trump is doing a better job of making his points in a way that the average person can understand…other than where Clinton called him a racist which was setup for Clinton.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  238. Hillary the Hawk! Talking about “taking out the leadership” of ISIS . . . the same line fed to us every day by the current administration: “We took out an ISIL(sic) LEADER!” She cites this as being ‘critical’, when the reality is that “leader” was replaced by another ‘leader’ TEN SECONDS after the drone fragged him.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  239. disneytwitter to this day is suppressing an abc movie about how bill herpes clinton let 911 happen

    for allah’s sake just shut your pig mouth

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  240. She’s getting louder and shoutier as the night goes on, especially on this Isis and Libya question.

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  241. Hillary Clinton is not up tp speed on ISIS! Donald trump made all kinds of mistatements and she most calls on her fact checkers to work. She only hits him on supporting the war in Iraq and the intervention in Libya himself.

    Trump claims ISIS fofrmed in a vaccum. It formed in Syria. It later conquered part of Iraq.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  242. Luckily the newspapers and TV stations will fact check Hillary to death on all of her BS. Right? Anyone? RIGHT!?!?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  243. Hillary also seems to answer certain questions ‘too fast’.. like reciting from a script, like she was already given the question and has been practicing the response for a few days.

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  244. Yeah, Bob, really liked the gun grabbing by secret memo and the clever way he avoided talking about all her skanky aides getting immunity and instead talked more about his taxes.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  245. Icy (1dd25d) — 9/26/2016 @ 7:17 pm

    She cites this as being ‘critical’, when the reality is that “leader” was replaced by another ‘leader’ TEN SECONDS after the drone fragged him.

    She talks like it was a choice not to go afetr Baghdadi.

    The US killed all the leaders who stood higher than him in the hierachy – probably based on information supplied by Baghdadi.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  246. did you notice none of the nevertrumpers are out here defending their beloved pig

    poor pig

    poor sad friendless pig

    oh it hurts my heart

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  247. Endorsed “by ICE”???
    Patterico (bcf524) — 9/26/2016 @ 7:10 pm
    — The union representing ICE employees has endorsed him. In his usual klutz-ass way, he makes it sound like the agency itself endorsed him; but, whatever.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  248. HAHAHAHAHA the Sean Hannity defense. Love it

    Hilar

    Patterico (bcf524)

  249. Lester Crowley?!?!

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  250. His opinion on the Iraq war as a private citizen didn’t get anybody killed or coast a dime.

    Her vote as a U.S. Senator for it did — and cost billions.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  251. Trump followed Hillary’s lead on the birther thing. Once again he’s not a leader. He kept it up far after its sell by date, and most reasonable think it was OK to ask the question. So Trump’s just making excuses. Once again he’s a total weasel.

    Now he’s lying about his Iraq position. Not man enough to say “I was wrong”. Leaders learn from their mistakes and own up, but Trump always has an excuse. Bankruptcy, tax evasion, racism, gun control, employing illegals, birther, Iraq… he doesn’t see how his constant mistakes and his constant refusal to admit error are related. But Trump doesn’t learn. He might as well be 15 years old standing up there, talking over everyone.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  252. Trump ssid he spoke to Sean Hannity – before the war. Trump says nobody wants to call him. Trump calls 2004 shortly afetr the war.

    He said he used to have arguments about thewar.

    Well, somebody should check.

    Trump says he has better judgment and temperament. He has a winning temperament.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  253. Oh, not a sigh. Just a ‘whooo?!’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  254. Hillary doing the shimmy. There are some things that can’t be unseen.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  255. oh my god she just went full pig

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  256. “I have a much better temperament than she does.”
    — He has the best temperament EVER; believe him!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  257. she sounds worse than a skeevy lying pig she sounds like an ex-senator

    poor piggy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  258. Who’s this Kos Kid that has started commenting here?

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  259. Oh goodie, Maudie is preaching again. Go, Maude. Lecture me.

    Your cookies are burning.

    For JR, a tie is a win.
    A win ends it.
    And a loss keeps it a race.

    This is shaping up to be a tie.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  260. National police force, what?

    SarahW (3164f0)

  261. she’s just nasty sticky and stupid

    america has to ask why

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  262. Yeah, no thanks, lady.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  263. I want a Vine of WOOH OK Hillary shaking her shoulders

    Patterico (bcf524)

  264. “We should have taken the oil.”
    — Aye matey, we be PIRATES now!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  265. Hillary’s smirking and smiling because she knows that while she didn’t win the debate, Trump lost it. You can see the relief in her eyes. She’s probably just happy she managed to stand this long, but still, she coasted through and let Trump be Trump. Good tactic. She was looking tired ten minutes ago, but she looks like she’s almost excited.

    Also, I would like to see Trump take a drug test. He has an impulsive, impatient jitter about him, and there’s something up with his nose.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  266. NOT global warming

    like you think, poor deranged sad pig-thing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  267. I do notice that Trump is using his low-grade-level vocabulary and style more than his high-grade-level one. Probably smart, in that he’s speaking to such a wide variety of people.

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  268. dustin give it up

    i wANT TO HELP YOU

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  269. Gawd, yes JR. Let’s end this.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  270. Hahaha the “endorsed by ICE” one was surprising indeed. I didn’t know that federal agencies endorsed presidential candidates.

    Leviticus (43f828)

  271. yes their union did, the ones who actually are on the front lines, like with the cops, who she allowed to be jeered at the convention,

    narciso (d1f714)

  272. Ah, a Hillary thin-lipped grimace-twitch as Trump talks about the ransom payments to Iran.

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  273. WTF, who is she to speak for the United States tonight?????????????????????????

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  274. Maudie’s power grabbing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  275. “bibi is not a happy camper”

    god yes Mr. nk he’s my daddy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  276. obama’s worked very hard to do genocide on israel

    and he woulda got away with it if it warn’t for them meddling trump kids

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  277. Despite his reliance on regurgitating some of his weaker (he said, charitably) talking points, Trump’s overall performance should probably be judged as Exceeding Expectations.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  278. Hillary’s values… Strong as the latest phone poll of likjeky voters

    Fangbeer (b4a2f7)

  279. oh bless yer hearts nevertrump piglovers

    this was just an off night

    she’ll do better next time

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  280. So back in the ’90s, Abu bin Waleyed is staying at Trump Casino when there’s a knock on his door. He opens the door and sees Melania Trump in a see-through nightie and six-inch boudoir slippers. She says, “I’m your order from room service, sir”. And he says, “No, no, no. I asked for a hookah. A h-o-o-k-a-h.”

    nk (dbc370)

  281. Oh goodie, Maudie is preaching again. Go, Maude. Lecture me.

    Your cookies are burning.

    For JR, a tie is a win.
    A win ends it.
    And a loss keeps it a race.

    This is shaping up to be a tie.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/26/2016 @ 7:25 pm

    That’s always the big question: Who does a tie help. These things usually are ties. And several of Holt’s questions were aimed at Trump. He’ll be able to point that out later.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  282. Bet you Trump wins the Drudge poll.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  283. Did holt go after Clinton at all for misstatements. Did he ask her backers in the audience to follow the rules once? No.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  284. Wait what kind of experience?

    Fangbeer (b4a2f7)

  285. @ 287: There are no Hillary defenders here. There are people who hate both candidates, and then there are the other people who need their heads examined.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  286. “Hillary has experience, but it’s BAD experience.”
    — That’s a good line.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  287. he had already bought the park plaza from him, for a song,

    narciso (d1f714)

  288. You learn something new every day, Leviticus. Ain’t life grand!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  289. so weird

    tonight was new… the media lost by losing

    i bet lester crowley gets plaudits tomorrow

    for his noble unpresentness

    but the pig had nothing but triggering pig-speak

    they used to call it cant

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  290. Hillary: “Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but I always cheat.”

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  291. if he didn’t hear on oliver, or trevor or maher, it didn’t happen.

    narciso (d1f714)

  292. Trump has a much better answer to the last question – he uses it as his answer of why.

    Ingot (1de9ec)

  293. just think of pervy weak-ass mitt romney or meghan’s coward daddy being on that stage right now

    we done good

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  294. 85 minute tie. Holt asked weak questions. Nobody has asked why either of them want to be president.

    Last few minutes of power grab lecture by Maudie tips this to JR IMO. She has absolutely no right or authority to speak for the United States tonight on national- nay global television.

    Playing the girl card… another crutch. I give the win to JR based on the last five minutes.

    “Aide: Sir! Patton’s taken Palermo! Monty: Damn!” Patton, 1970

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  295. Please.

    “He has an impulsive, impatient jitter about him, and there’s something up with his nose.”

    Try not to write posts while looking in the mirror

    steveg (5508fb)

  296. lol

    cnn says the pig won

    her pig-teats are inflamed with victory!

    if you are an american tonight you will scorn sleep

    the food stamp era is over

    we are become pig-scrunchers you and i, my american friend

    scrunch it scrunch it oil it richly

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  297. I was right! Trump is smashing Hillary on Drudge. The election is OVER man!

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  298. I once had a pet mouse that seemed to me to have a face that looked like Trump’s. Then I realized that he had rubbed the hair off his butt and was walking backwards.

    nk (dbc370)

  299. D-bag, you are one smarmy asshole. Be proud, ya prick.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  300. Hillary defenders are quiet tonight…. Patterico… Dustin?

    How’s your gal doing?

    Bob23

    Um, perhaps your screen is broken as I’ve commented multiple times.

    How many names have you commented here under?

    I just call them like I see them and have contempt for Hillary that I’ve expressed hundreds of times for over ten years on this blog, including many times in this thread before your comment lying about me.

    That you think the truth is biased against Trump says quite a lot about your support for him.

    But just to recap, Hillary did nothing impressive and coasted along. I think she looked tired for a bit but then caught her second wind as she watched Trump look like an idiot, which he definitely did for the last 2/3rd of the debate. Trump was slimy and evasive throughout, but my favorite part was the last question where America watched Trump refuse to give a straight answer to a yes or no question.

    Hillary didn’t win so much as Trump lost the debate. Will Trump even show up to the next one? He has chickened out of debates before, you know, because he’s not good at them.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  301. Oh

    Seems d****** is a closet Howard Dean co-conspirator on the “Trump is on drugs theme”

    steveg (5508fb)

  302. Maddow is looking very butch tonight.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  303. @ the Colonel, #319: That’s a very rude thing to say about DCSCA. I thought you two were on the same side, anyway.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  304. I will say that finally watching Hillary for an hour and a half makes it next to impossible for me to actually vote for her, even though I sincerely believe Trump is much more dangerous to our country. She offers folks like me nothing. She talks to me like I’m stupid.

    But next to impossible beats impossible and I can no more vote for Trump than I could vote for his favorite communist dictators.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  305. cnn is very clear

    food stamp-besotted america is spreading its jaunty fat pig thighs saying pig – please to do it all up in me

    (think anderson cooper)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  306. I refuse to believe you ever had a pet mouse, but if you did, stop looking at its ass. There are better things to do with your time

    steveg (5508fb)

  307. Well, that didn’t live up to the hype. It was like going to see a heavyweight boxing prize match and getting a a middleweight sparring exercise instead.

    Or, to put it another way, it was like reading the comments of your average Patterico post. Same old crap, different day…

    LBascom (c230be)

  308. CNN is dwelling on the birther question — the LEAST important question in the debate. Sheesh!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  309. Maddow– ‘He was like a jumping bean….’ He lost his stamina…. C-SPAN seems serene compared to our media landscape these days. ‘ran out of gas…???’ OFGS MSNBC is babbling Trump numbers will be collapsing.

    These talking heads live in a bubble.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  310. “because he’s not good at them.”

    A very good gauge of how abysmally bad he is was the section on cyber security. He walked by a perfect set up without even noticing.

    Rick Ballard (67b11b)

  311. She was able to stand up for 90 minutes and didn’t cough once. She’ll take it as a win, now where’s her medicine…

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  312. Seems d****** is a closet Howard Dean co-conspirator on the “Trump is on drugs theme”

    steveg

    Hmm, my name starts with D and I suspect Trump is using drugs, but I’m not sure how Howard Dean fits into this. I think Dean was probably using the same drugs Trump was. They both have a very jittery and out of control temperament, no self awareness, and try to talk over the other argument instead of responding to it, like they are really afraid they can’t win the argument. Surely we’ve all have a conversation with someone who tries to filibuster over us instead of hear us out. It’s not a sign of strength.

    But Dean is also a doctor so if he thinks Trump is on drugs I’m interested in which drugs and why. The American people deserve to know Trump’s medical situation just as much as they deserve to know Hillary’s.

    Not surprising if this is getting a reaction from Trump’s supporters. It’s a pretty glaring weakness. My apologies if you weren’t responding to me, but I don’t know who d***** is.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  313. Birtherism… such sucker bait.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  314. Rick Ballard,

    He was too busy being on the defensive and taking everything personally. It was all about him.

    Dana (995455)

  315. I refuse to believe you ever had a pet mouse, but if you did, stop looking at its ass. There are better things to do with your time

    steveg (5508fb) — 9/26/2016 @ 7:51 pm

    Don’t be so sure… and don’t judge him harshly. Whatever blows his skirts up…

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  316. Lester Hold chose biased questions. He also gave Hillary the questions. I wish nothing but bad things, the worst things possible, to happen to Lester Holt.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  317. She was able to stand up for 90 minutes and didn’t cough once. She’ll take it as a win, now where’s her medicine…

    Colonel Haiku

    This is actually true though. America was watching and expecting a coughing fit or for her to fall over. As soon as Trump started chanting Stamina! STAMINA! STA MI NA! Hillary took an obviously rehearsed pose and smiled using four seconds in and out breathing.

    Trump’s side oversold the whole ‘Hillary is a walking corpse’ thing, and America saw she isn’t. She still is far too frail to be an effective president, in my opinion, but I doubt the viewers see it that way at all.

    I wonder how much money went to whoever figured out how to keep her from coughing. Probably more than I earn in a year!

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  318. failmerica must deal with lester’s birtherism issues

    and i think in the coming days we will

    and then we can finally moveon.org

    how is that a bad thing?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  319. Curling is a better show.

    mg (31009b)

  320. All right, whoever is forcing LBascom to read these comments threads should stop it right now. Should I call the police for you, LBascom? Will you need an ambulance, too?

    nk (dbc370)

  321. @ Dustin, #320, wrt Bob23, #334:

    Bob is actually in the right here, Dustin. It’s not as though he normally cares enough to check and see that what he’s saying is or isn’t true, if he even has a shred of doubt; he just plows ahead and says what he wants. I doubt you’re important enough to him to merit a change in strategy of “blurt now, deny later.”

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  322. Maudie had absolutely no right or authority to speak for the United States tonight as she did toward the end of this pie fight.

    For that power grab alone IMO– advantage JR.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  323. gang of eight
    loaded gun
    rubio

    mg (31009b)

  324. Why would you possibly think you’re important enough for me to intentionally lie about?

    Bob23

    Apparently I’m very important to you, as you keep talking about me, and yeah, you lied about me not commenting about the debate for some reason. You could have simply replied to me and expressed your disagreement, but it’s not about the issues to you Trump fanboys. It’s about attacking the people who disagree with you. This is why you have nothing to say about my actual comments, and only stuff to say about me. In your head I’m a big deal indeed, not that I get any validation out of it.

    You dodged my question, and I’ve seen others ask you the same thing. How many other names have you used here?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  325. Several questions were directed at him (big surprise!). There was no way to “win” those. Trump probably did about as well as he could on those. But they probably helped Clinton.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  326. Mr. Lee is welcome here i think

    he’s a friendly face

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  327. There were no questions on immigration—the biggest issue in the entire election.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  328. Dustin, Haiku has two shticks. Copypasta from Ace and Instapundit, and playground insults and nonsense rhymes. No capacity for anything of substance.

    nk (dbc370)

  329. she has enough cocktails in her for a medium size university dispensary, giving her the benefit of the doubt, with the most ridiculous arguments,

    narciso (d1f714)

  330. Trump is publicly congratulating himself for not bringing up Pervy Bill in public.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  331. I doubt you’re important enough to him to merit a change in strategy of “blurt now, deny later.”

    Demosthenes

    Sure, Bob probably didn’t realize that both Patterico and I had already commented on the debate many times in this thread when he said we were silent on the topic.

    But when I pointed it out, he could have just said “my bad” and had a discussion about the debate. That’s not really the Trump fanboy way, though. Fascinating to see these guys spin themselves up like a top.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  332. Trump basically said that the ads Hillary Clinton was running against him were counterproductive – which might be true.

    They only appeared in swing states so they wouldn’t have been seen by the people in tghe nmedia except those based in Washington, D.C. because Virginia is a swing sate.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  333. Mr. Denver Guy wins a hearty slice of perspicacious pie

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  334. (sp?)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  335. 131- No no, I wasn’t slamming the comments here, I was saying the debate offered nothing one couldn’t get by reading the comment section here. It was actually a compliment, sit down and take it like a man.

    LBascom (c230be)

  336. There were no questions on immigration—the biggest issue in the entire election.

    Denver Guy (4750ec) — 9/26/2016 @ 8:01 pm

    There were no questions on a bunch of things. Clinton’s plan to let tens of thousands of Syrians into the country, Benghazi etc. Anybody who’s not a total airhead can figure out what was going on.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  337. 341 I mean…

    LBascom (c230be)

  338. @ Dustin, #352:

    He could have, but he wouldn’t have. And he didn’t. As I said, and as you seem to agree, that’s just not his way.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  339. 348. Denver Guy (4750ec) — 9/26/2016 @ 8:01 pm

    .There were no questions on immigration—the biggest issue in the entire election.

    No questions, but there were some answers, at least on the part of Trump, who claimed to have been endorsed by a government agency, which wold be a clear violation of the Hatch Act.

    Trump also threw in abit about immigration in a discussion of crime.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  340. Holt had to keep his job. Which is better than smooching a fast moving vehicle.

    mg (31009b)

  341. Just my opinion. Hillary did well by standing up the whole time. Trump missed a lot of opportunities. The media will say Hillary won. Lester Holt did OK. My ultimate takeaway, though, is do we want another four or eight years of Obama policies or something new? I think a lot of people will say, well, maybe Obama isn’t so bad. Let’s give Hillary the chance to do better. Trump will have to up his game.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  342. (sp?)
    happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/26/2016 @ 8:03 pm
    — “slice” … nailed it!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  343. seems like the teddy croozers found much else other than mere democracy to be of amoozement this fine fall evening

    i do wish they would drop this veil of mystery and let us all partake

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  344. Dustin, Haiku has two shticks. Copypasta from Ace and Instapundit, and playground insults and nonsense rhymes. No capacity for anything of substance.

    nk

    If he would just stop that first part I wouldn’t care much. I have no moral high ground on insults, nor should anyone care about that. But ten pages of copypasta is so irritating when you’re interested in what everyone is actually saying and trying to follow the conversation. Sammy knocked it off and I appreciate it.

    Several questions were directed at him (big surprise!). There was no way to “win” those. Trump probably did about as well as he could on those. But they probably helped Clinton.

    Gerald A

    I agree that many of the questions were intended to attack Trump. The one about accepting the results of the election was clearly so as it even referenced Trump planting seeds of doubt.

    Gingrich or Cruz would have knocked those out of the park by identifying the bias and answering with some semblance of principle. Trump lacks that capacity partly because he is mentally all over the place and probably changed his mind on the issues mid-debate.

    But this wasn’t a debate either could really win. It was about who makes a bigger fool of themselves. Trump’s strategy seemed to be to show Hillary is weak by walking all over her and wearing her out. Hillary’s was to chill and talk to us like we are ten years old, and hope Trump shows poor temperament. The debate made it harder for me to stomach voting for Hillary, but I probably still will. Trump’s inability to just relax for thirty seconds is alarming. This isn’t a person who should be anywhere near power.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  345. it’s not too late to nominate Jeb

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  346. just do it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  347. u know u wanna

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  348. 343. DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/26/2016 @ 7:59 pm

    Maudie had absolutely no right or authority to speak for the United States tonight as she did toward the end of this pie fight.

    Well, Donald Trump could have contradicted her and said the United States would not necessarily stand by its treaty commitments, if he became president.

    This did carry a air of trying to get people to think: “Well, she better be elected.”

    Precisely because she wasn’t, in reality (yet, anyway) speaking for the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  349. Ugh! Now FOX is dwelling on the birther nonsense. ENOUGH!

    Icy (1dd25d)

  350. at the end o’ the night she looked like a bloody tampon

    i’m no marketer, but … not a good look you axe me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  351. Even the Time poll has Trump the winner, 52/48

    Harkin (de797c)

  352. JR does the spin room; Maudie runs away- staggers to her SUV and scoots.

    Sends out surrogates instead.

    She doesn’t have he stamina for the gig.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  353. Hard-hitting, poignant commentary from the usual suspects. It’s just another day.

    The very flawed candidate going up against the Comcast/NBC corporate Dem-shills and the Dem candidate. Clinton’s problems have never stemmed from a lack of knowledge, it’s her horrible lack of judgement and the fact that she’s a lying crook.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  354. Icy (1dd25d) — 9/26/2016 @ 7:21 pm

    — The union representing ICE employees has endorsed him. In his usual klutz-ass way, he makes it sound like the agency itself endorsed him; but, whatever.

    That was probably on purpose, but it is very problematic in any case. I suspect maybe it’s because they think he will help them make money. And help the union, by tripling its members.

    Trump, you might say, regards the employees as the agency. But no agency is an indendent arm of government, responsible to no one.

    Hillary, by the way, doesn’t have any kind of an answer to that.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  355. It can be hard to judge how these debates affect the middle of the road types. Trump managed to get some very good points in, e.g. ‘I didn’t hear two words from her, “law” and “order”‘. If you exclude the ones which were aimed at Trump I think he clearly won. Of course you can’t exclude those but he could go on the attack over that.

    Early in the next debate Trump should begin by saying “In the last debate we spend a lot of time on things I don’t think most Americans care about. I hope we get some questions tonight on Benghazi, importing thousands of Syrians which includes ISIS sympathizers, a slow growth economy” etc.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  356. Steve Bannon has done a marvelous job repackaging Shorty. Sadly, there ain’t nothing he can do to make the real deal less cringeworthy. The stereotype has always been that we are the stupid party. Tonight provided confirmation.

    He even admitted to cramming for the “Truther” question, but he botched it anyway. Unbelievable.

    As the polls begin their inevitable swing back to Hillary, the wisdom of Cruz’ endorsement will become more apparent – can’t blame Lyin Ted for Shorty’s failing.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  357. u know u wanna

    I would nominate effing Biden rather than this turd, but no, Jeb! was never on anyone’s lips but the Trumpies. Still flogging the same strawman a year later? Just shows how pathetic you people are.

    But here is a list of folks who would have destroyed Hillary tonight, in no particular order:

    Walker, Cruz, Jeb!, Kasich, Christie, Fiorina, Rubio, Romney, Cotton, Perry and Ryan.

    But Trump? He’s ALWAYS been here to lose. Hollywood central casting Rethuglican.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  358. right that’s why murphy managed 150 million in contributions, before the charade ended seriously,

    narciso (d1f714)

  359. Again, the GOP’s best hope is that one of Governor Brown’s illegal alien aides shoots Trump.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  360. But here is a list of folks who would have destroyed Hillary tonight, in no particular order:

    Walker, Cruz, Jeb!, Kasich, Christie, Fiorina, Rubio, Romney, Cotton, Perry and Ryan.

    But Trump? He’s ALWAYS been here to lose. Hollywood central casting Rethuglican.

    Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/26/2016 @ 8:28 pm

    Romney and Ryan would have destroyed Clinton. Another remarkable statement by Kevin M.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  361. He even admitted to cramming for the “Truther” question, but he botched it anyway. Unbelievable.

    ThOR (c9324e) — 9/26/2016 @ 8:28 pm

    What should he have said?

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  362. right that’s why murphy managed 150 million in contributions, before the charade ended seriously,

    And I guess all those contributors HAD to vote for him, because no one else did. The fact that Jeb! ran a great scam, worthy of Bialystock & Bloom, does not mean that he was a serious candidate, jsut that he was the candidate of fools with money.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  363. oh good gravy, they are in her corner, for the love of pete, they were weak feckless reasons why the party establishment needed to be thrashed,

    narciso (d1f714)

  364. most of the commentariat was for him, name any five pundits, and they kept him in the trapper keeper,

    narciso (d1f714)

  365. Seen on a FB thread.
    Not watching. Know what they’re like. He is a reality TV star. She is like Madame deFarge without the charm.

    Kishnevi (c2a547)

  366. Jeb! tried to scare everyone out of the campaign in the spring of 2015, and Romney said eff that and said he’d get in if no one else did. That made the money people back of long enough to make a contest of it. As it stands, it’s truly a pity we don’t have Mitt instead of dickbrain.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  367. I say again, he had the best of it on the questions that weren’t directed at him.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  368. Romney and Ryan would have destroyed Clinton. Another remarkable statement by Kevin M.

    You maybe think that Trump did OK? You gonna point us at the Drudge poll? The truth is that he tanked. He looked liked to MIDDLE AMERICA — the only people who matter here — as the stupidest and rudest man ever to run for the office. He could not have done worse if he’d mooned them.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  369. I think Trump was fairly effective at making Hillary the poster child of the mess we are in, while Hillary was able to dispell any doubts among the faithful about her health. There was no clear winner, and I doubt this debate will influence many voters.

    Hopefully the next debate will have more substance and focus the two on actual concerns of the country instead of where Obama was born and tax returns. Seems the whole night was about putting Trump on the defensive and trying to get him to lose it, which he didn’t, so there’s that. All in all it was just a big waste of time as far as I’m concerned.

    LBascom (c230be)

  370. she’s a nasty clotty pig

    i won’t let her do president on you

    i’m your friend

    god help me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  371. But I guess the folks who listen to talk radio 24/7 and hear Trump mention their secret shorthand thing, BOY HE TOLD THEM, when in fact he came off as a bozo in the lst half of the show. His best hope is that nobody was watching.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  372. *think

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  373. what is this radio of which you speak

    tell me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  374. In the whole discussion of the economy, the growth rate of the past 7 years wasn’t brought up, except in passing by Donald Trump.

    In several places Trump said they agreed.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  375. Romney and Ryan would have destroyed Clinton. Another remarkable statement by Kevin M.

    You maybe think that Trump did OK? You gonna point us at the Drudge poll? The truth is that he tanked. He looked liked to MIDDLE AMERICA — the only people who matter here — as the stupidest and rudest man ever to run for the office. He could not have done worse if he’d mooned them.

    Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/26/2016 @ 8:40 pm

    You’re entitled to your opinion of how Trump did but I don’t know how anyone could picture Romney or Ryan destroying Clinton.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  376. “Early in the next debate Trump should begin by saying “In the last debate we spend a lot of time on things I don’t think most Americans care about. I hope we get some questions tonight on Benghazi, importing thousands of Syrians which includes ISIS sympathizers, a slow growth economy” etc.”

    – Gerald A

    And let’s not forget The Supreme Court ™, the issue so important that it single-handedly convinced Gerald to do a complete 180 on his utter contempt for Trump, Trump’s dishonestly, Trump’s complete lack of qualifications, etc., etc…

    That one’s important too.

    I’ll go out on a limb and guess that Trump’s Supreme Court ™ involves some combination of Law&Order, Mexico, and Winning.

    Leviticus (03bf59)

  377. Nutless mittens would still be allowed in the tranny latrine.

    mg (31009b)

  378. Kevin M, methinks you see only what you want to see.

    LBascom (c230be)

  379. Trump interrupted a lot but the interruptions were short. And you want them. At least I do. I want to hear responses. The big problem was that factual questions remained unresolved. What exactly did happen with that beauty contest contestant? Did the architect do a bad job, or at least something that Trump didn’t like, and didn’t use, and what did the contract say? Do tapes exist of whatever he said to Sean Hannity – was that on the air?

    When Trump interjected some defense, she mostly didn’t swerve from what she wasn’t going to say.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  380. Bob23 (ce7fc3) — 9/26/2016 @ 8:50 pm

    Hillary, OTOH, is smooth, professional, and can talk somewhat convincingly while saying nothing.

    When Trump was stuck with the question about what to do about cyber attacks, he went all over the place.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  381. he won

    pig lost

    lil pink houses for u n me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  382. I’ll go out on a limb and guess that Trump’s Supreme Court ™ involves some combination of Law&Order, Mexico, and Winning.

    Leviticus (03bf59) — 9/26/2016 @ 8:48 pm

    I’ll try to figure what that means. I can’t do it right now. Maybe after I’ve had some coffee in the morning.

    Gerald A (5cdf2b)

  383. Maybe a good job by Lester to be unfair to Trump.
    Americans are sick of the msfm and the clintons.

    mg (31009b)

  384. We doan need no steenkin’ Supreme Court. Trump’s sister will just sign a bill.

    nk (dbc370)

  385. Spot on. Impressive.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  386. it’s something camelbert would say, has no relation to reality,

    narciso (d1f714)

  387. “Hillary did well by standing up the whole time. Trump missed a lot of opportunities. The media will say Hillary won.” Agreed. HRC looked healthy and competent to me. I’d add that HRC was far better prepared; she knew how to get him ranting and then stand back and watch. I’m disappointed DJT was so poorly prepared, and so easily baited.

    My vote for DJT doesn’t help him because IL is a lock for HRC, so I have the luxury of voting a write-in. Jeff Sessions tops my list.

    gp (0c542c)

  388. “When Hillary and company were peddling Truther back in 2008, I made the mistake of believing her. I won’t make that mistake again. In my own defense, I was new to politics back then and didn’t understand how dishonestly the Clintons play it. I know now.”

    Let me add in Trump’s defense, at least half the Republican field would have fared no better. I believe they call that damning with faint praise.

    Romney or Ryan? Keep dreaming.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  389. “I’ll try to figure what that means. I can’t do it right now. Maybe after I’ve had some coffee in the morning.”

    – Gerald A

    Don’t strain yourself. It’s not like he meant for us to know.

    Leviticus (43f828)

  390. Let’s imagine a little role reversal. If Cruz had bested Trump, would there have been an endorsement of Lyin Ted? Who would Shorty be voting for in the general election? I think we all know the answer to those questions.

    Now, it’s time for payback. I’m voting Hill.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  391. When Trump was stuck with the question about what to do about cyber attacks, he went all over the place.
    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0) —9/26/2016 @ 8:52 pm
    — Well, just remember, up until last week he thought that a “cyber attack” referred to attempts by ISIS to recruit new followers on Facebook, so there’s a learning curve thing going on.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  392. @417 “He didn’t dignify her answer,” Actually, didn’t he reply that he was justified because the pig was Rosie O’Donnell? That was my biggest laugh of the night. Alas, quite inappropriate for a presidential debate.

    If he really means it that PRC should invade DPRK, I think that’s an innovative and maybe good idea.

    He clearly does not know what “first use” means, and it was embarrassing watching him try to bull his way thru an answer.

    gp (0c542c)

  393. I barely noticed the moderator. It was all about Trump the whole time, even when Hillary was trying to talk and Trump wouldn’t shut up. That Trump fans are complaining this much is an admission their guy did not do well tonight.

    I haven’t seen a single campaign ad as I don’t have cable or broadcast TV. I think a lot of Americans took this contest seriously for the first time tonight, and tonight was effectively a free 90 minute ad about how rude and slippery Trump is.

    Polls are coming in and it’s looking like Trump should sit out the next two debates. It’s not a good He should research what kinds of stunts he can pull during the next debates. Fundraiser for vets where he keeps the money until forced to give it up has been done to death.

    Maybe a Top Trumpkin Quisling Apprentice show, co-hosted with Omarosa? Who has what it takes to lick the boots of the most powerful man in the universe? They could see who would eat the grossest bugs for the chance to be ‘the best’.

    He could get Joe Biden to show him how to get hair implants that look decent? I’d chip in a few dollars to that phone-a-thon. Between Hillary’s jibbs and Trump’s scalp, these guys had a debate meant for radio.

    Or Trump could spin a wheel to decide how he feels about gun control? So much suspense!

    Any of those would be better than facing off against Hillary again. It’s too late now, but we gave this thing away when we didn’t rally behind Rubio, Cruz, or Walker. Thanks Palin!

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  394. Trump is not a professional politician. He does not give smooth, tailored answers. He doesn’t know how to talk over the heads of voters with vaguely convincing wonkiness.

    All this is why he beat the 17 other Republicans.

    Actually, the sane Republicans were split badly by one of the best benches the GOP has ever had, and the racists and democrats all voted for Trump, largely because they wanted to see the GOP house burn down. A media that was all too happy to assist in burning the GOP did so with enthusiasm. Trump’s empty podium preempted the speeches of his competitors. The GOP primary has picked losers for a long time now, and as the polls are showing Hillary crushed Trump tonight I’d say the GOP picked its biggest loser ever.

    Even today, pit Trump against Rubio, Cruz, or Walkerm one on one, 50 state contest, and you’d see that a majority of Republicans do not want Trump to be the nominee. Primaries don’t work that way though. Instead, the GOP nominated the guy who said “hillary clinton will be a great president” in 2008.

    We need to have a runoff 2 candidate primary, and it should be a 50 state contest. And it should be a closed contest. The two candidates can make their speeches on the first night of the primary, and the party can vote for the next 24 hours. If not that, then the delegates should indeed be free to vote their conscience, something Trump was desperate to avoid this year.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  395. the party never wants to close the primaries, they are knaves that way, they were perfectly willing to have jeb blast all the candidates with the ad blitz, the way romney prevailed last time, but that was the old play,

    narciso (d1f714)

  396. You’ve got it backwards, Dustin. Romney, Jeb! and the GOPe are the cause; Trump, like Palin, is an effect.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  397. As is Cruz.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  398. Howard Who, SteveG? http://youtu.be/fsar9CV9kLI

    Disclaimer: the management is not responsible for any subsequent acts by titillated pipples of Greek descent…

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  399. They’ll want to close the primaries now.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  400. Keep talkin’ ’em down, you’ll get another 8 years of the sort of foul, divisive, wretchedness you don’t apparently fully comprehend.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  401. “Polls are coming in and it’s looking like Trump should sit out the next two debates”

    Yeah, keep sucking that thumb and telling yourself stories dusty.

    http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/09/26/schieffer-presidential-debate/

    Trump 71%, Hillary 29%.

    LBascom (c230be)

  402. I’ll bet they don’t, the base is too downscale for their interest, too full of bitter clingers, that’s why you need to elect another populace more to their liking,

    narciso (d1f714)

  403. The down side for JR from this is he probably didn’t change any minds or win any new support.

    The down side for Maudie is she really looked shell-shocked a number of times in this pie fight. And for me, personally, her lecturing viewers around the world as if she was speaking as an authorized spokesperson for United States policy commitments was a pure power grab– and just wrong. She is a private citizen.

    But the problems JR addressed are the problems facing the American people.

    Nobody cares about his taxes, or birtherism … or Miss Piggy. Only the talking heads on press panels need that for chatter fodder. I score this a marginal win at best and tie at worst for JR.

    But it certainly wasn’t ‘a shutout’ as Chris Matthews tried to label it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  404. In a nutshell… http://americandigest.org/ahillonstairs.jpg

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  405. The Trumpkins will sockpuppet the online polls the way the Ronulans did (many of them being former Ronulans). Normal Americans will go to work in the morning.

    nk (dbc370)

  406. Time poll:

    http://time.com/4506217/presidential-debate-clinton-trump-survey/

    Trump 60%, Hillary 40%

    LBascom (c230be)

  407. In Chicago, they trip over the dead bodies on their way…

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  408. well 93 million are out of the work force, and most ronulans are now with bluntman, they really didn’t cotton to laup fils,

    narciso (d1f714)

  409. you can fool the duntzes in pennsylvania, they can’t make up their mind after the entire alexandria library,

    narciso (d1f714)

  410. @441– Bbbbbbbbbbbbbut CNN and MSNBC keep telling me she won this.

    Oh my. Who do I believe?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  411. Battleground states Pennsylvania and Colorado are in play. Tonight wont change that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  412. Trumpkins… so pathetic. Trump fans organize to rush the Time poll.

    And why fake a poll if you can’t cite that poll as evidence?

    Time poll:

    http://time.com/4506217/presidential-debate-clinton-trump-survey/

    Trump 60%, Hillary 40%

    LBascom

    See? These guys think this is clever.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  413. Funniest part is how in the thread where they call on eachother to fake the Time poll, they are lamenting how poorly Trump did.

    Bbbbbbbbbbbbbut CNN and MSNBC keep telling me she won this.

    Oh my. Who do I believe?

    DCSCA

    If you watched the debate you know who won. Everyone citing dumb online polls knows. Everyone faking online polls knows. And everyone rolling their eyes at Trump fans knows. He blew it.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  414. and they’ll cook up another batch of borscht like the nbc poll, unless you do something like the irs’s crushing the neck of the tea party, you won’t have a redux of 2012,

    narciso (d1f714)

  415. Watch the state polls, good night.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  416. Dustin, Truely you have a dizzying intellect.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PX-tX92O8xM

    LBascom (c230be)

  417. In Chicago, they trip over the dead bodies on their way…
    Colonel Haiku (d0a528) — 9/26/2016 @ 9:56 pm
    — But if those bodies get in their way (or their face) on the sidewalk, then they hit them!
    Or sue them . . . or hit them and then sue them . . . or something.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  418. I was wrong. Trump, at a minimum, held serve. Let’s see what the media machine does to the original favorable reactions of the folks in fly-over land.

    One major not from me…Luntz’ group was NOT undecided. There was a clear HRC bias. Check out the earlier questions about law & order…HRC moved the dials and DJT did not! In what universe was that segment not a slam dunk for DJT? The bias of the group came out in glowing neon signage.

    Yeah, they went 16-6 for HRC. Duh.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  419. Dustin, Truely you have a dizzying intellect.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PX-tX92O8xM

    LBascom

    You claimed a poll was evidence that Trump did well. I proved that hundreds of Trump fans were engaged in skewing this poll. I also observed that online polls are dumb evidence because they aren’t scientific, and it’s become tiresome how Trump fans follow every damn debate with the same crap ‘look at this poll’ argument.

    This isn’t a sign of my vast intellect because it’s common sense. But it’s a sign you think we are stupid that you would make that argument. But yes, you guys do seem to be really hostile to the concept of being smart.

    We all watched the debate. No one really thinks Trump helped himself. No one.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  420. Dustin

    This is all a mistake.
    You see your name Dustin starts with a capital D and ends with an n.
    Deans name starts with a capital D and ends with n

    Some search engine must have decided you must be fellow travelers

    steveg (5508fb)

  421. Nothing either could say could make me judge either of them worth voting for. So please: Trumpkins, if my conclusion below surprises you, or even if you agree with it in whole or part, please don’t presume that I’m “coming around” or “changing my position” or in any other way.

    Scored on the kind of debating points they used when Ted Cruz won the national college debating championship while at Princeton, she won by a knockout. No one but Hillary fans much cares about that.

    Scored on the scale of tactical advantages seized and lost, she won. That’s what the press is focused on right now, even Fox News. That’s not unimportant. But:

    Scored strategically in terms of its likely and potential effects on the election, I nevertheless think he won, specifically because this is the first of three debates, and he didn’t literally set himself on fire or take out his penis onstage.

    Of the two, he’s the one more likely to get better for debates two and three. She isn’t; she’ll be hard-pressed to match tonight’s performance, in fact.

    And he didn’t blow up. He was no more or less presidential than the Trumpian average over the course of the GOP debates, except he was indeed in better self-control most of the time. The most obvious thing he did wrong — dropping into a defensive posture and repeating himself — won’t be hard for his advisers to coach him into fixing.

    “Not blowing up” was the bar he had to jump over. He managed, and strategically, I count that a win.

    But only if he does improve, because the bar will indeed be higher next time.

    ***

    A nit — shades of the “nuclear triad,” on which subject Hugh Hewitt caught Trump wholly ignorant not once but, inexcusably, twice: The question about “no first nuclear strike” was the kind of fastball on the inside corner at the nipples (by which I mean, predictably nasty and intended to catch you unprepared and floundering) that someone should have prepared Trump on, or that he should have listened to if the staffers tried and he ignored them. Trump and the Trumpkins will insist that when he said he wouldn’t take anything off the table (was he sniffing the trap as he floundered around in it?), he really meant that yes, he’ll reserve that option just like every president since Truman, even Obama. Those who actually believe him and them will, of course, believe anything. But it’s peanuts in the strategic big picture.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  422. Steve,

    I still don’t really understand what Howard Dean has to do with it.

    I guess you’re saying Howard Dean was on one of the networks and he made a remark about Trump and drugs, but you’re not being very clear. Does this mean I must be wrong? I agree with Howard Dean on other things too. He was a fiscally conservative governor with balanced budgets. On some things he wasn’t bad.

    I do think he lacked the temperament to be president, and this is why he lost. Same reason Trump lost the presidency tonight, though it’s not like he was winning yesterday.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  423. Good comment, Beldar, even if I disagree on the bar Trump had to clear for one basic reason:

    I think a lot of people watched this debate that didn’t pay close attention to the primaries. While most of the folks who followed the GOP primary know who they are voting for, a lot of people who watched this debate are actually trying to make their decision between two candidates that popular culture has told us are both terrible.

    And while Hillary did nothing to impress most of us, Trump was defensive, talked over everybody, and didn’t answer straight questions. He was utterly unlike the kinds of people who have been at general election debates in modern history. To someone who really is undecided, Trump bullying Hillary isn’t impressive. Trump bragging isn’t impressive. The people who find that appealing are already in his camp.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  424. I’m only hostile to the concept of a (#nevertrumper) being smarter than me just because of my gauche choice of candidate vs their highbrow nevertrumper attitude. Similarly I am hostile toward the concept of some people being my intellectual betters simply because they snuggle up to and then post the blog party line.
    Sometimes I am reminded about seeing people reprimanded here for being tough on Obama in 2008
    “He’s a good man” (insert scold here)
    Obama did not turn out to be a good man, and really never was one and if possible is an even more colossal liar than Hillary and Donald combined. Obama ends a lot of his lies with some line about being the most transparent administration in an attempt to validate a lie with another lie.
    But lots of people got scolded by their more evolved conservative brethren for being stubborn about saying Obama being a lying POS, when he was and is.

    steveg (5508fb)

  425. Steve, you’re fighting an argument that is nearly a decade old. This isn’t about whether someone was sufficiently nasty to president-elect Obama to their children.

    And no one is telling you they are smarter than you. I don’t know why Trump fans are always blurting about that topic, but I see it everywhere.

    Relax, man. You’re angry for no reason. Both of these candidates are jackasses. It will be great that one will lose and sad that one will win. We have a unique opportunity to reevaluate the importance of politics in our lives. These politicians are not worth a single grey hair on your head. Not Cruz, not Trump, not George Washington.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  426. D
    I was being very clear. Your questions reveal you know exactly what I am saying
    I’d seen Dean smeared Trump with the “uses illegal street drugs” and you were fostering a similar line.
    Seemed unlikely to be coincidental.
    I left a link to something you seemed to have already seen so as to refresh your memory.

    No it doesn’t mean you might be wrong, as long as you don’t think that smearing someone with the totally made up charge of using illegal drugs is wrong, then by all means proceed with the good company of Howard Dean. Clearly you “agree with Howard Dean on other things too” like on fabrication of a smear

    I see you more as hf’s evil twin.

    steveg (5508fb)

  427. I’d seen Dean smeared Trump with the “uses illegal street drugs” and you were fostering a similar line.
    Seemed unlikely to be coincidental.

    Well it actually is coincidental, and no I didn’t see Dean say this. I do not even know what network Dean was on. But Dean is a doctor so I am interested in what drugs he thinks Trump is using. Why are you talking in circles about this, anyway?

    you don’t think that smearing someone with the totally made up charge of using illegal drugs is wrong,

    All I said was that I’d like Trump to take a drug test. He is jittery. About 1/3rd of the way into the debate he lost all his steam. Something was up with his nose. I think we should see the medical records and drug test results of both Hillary and Trump. I bet we would learn a whole lot about them both. You have a problem with this. We’ll just have to disagree then.

    I see you more as hf’s evil twin.

    Well that was random.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  428. Anderson Cooper concluded spin that JR doesn’t have stamina because he drank water and Maudie didn’t.

    WTF. We know why Maudie avoids =cough= water…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  429. When will somebody ask John Podesta why HE is speaking for Maudie instead of Maudie speaking for herself after these events.

    Apparently she doesn’t have the stamina.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  430. “You claimed a poll was evidence that Trump did well. I proved that hundreds of Trump fans were engaged in skewing this poll. I also observed that online polls are dumb evidence because they aren’t scientific, and it’s become tiresome how Trump fans follow every damn debate with the same crap ‘look at this poll’ argument.”

    Dude, I was replying to you #424. YOU brought up polls, not me. I just corrected you on what the polls were showing.

    Here’s another for you:

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=Bing+presidential+debate+poll

    I don’t know, maybe Trump supporters are skewing ALL the polls, and you are right and this will be what loses the election for Trump. After all, it’s not like nevertrumpers have ever made that claim before…

    LBascom (c230be)

  431. The question about “no first nuclear strike” was the kind of fastball on the inside corner at the nipples (by which I mean, predictably nasty and intended to catch you unprepared and floundering) that someone should have prepared Trump on, or that he should have listened to if the staffers tried and he ignored them.

    True. Maintaining a nuclear strike first option, not just for major strategic nuclear adversaries, but for hardened targets and conventional military formations, is a must. Indeed, they may be needed to deal with enemy demographic advantages from time to time, or to strike at or threaten to strike at psychologically significant targets in intercivilizational war.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  432. I don’t know, maybe Trump supporters are skewing ALL the polls

    It isn’t that, it’s that the Trump side has a savvy online presence, especially the alt-right “S-lord” sort. Also, more enthusiasm. So, more are available filling out polls.

    Hillary voters aren’t enthusiastic about her as an individual, but they’ll pull the lever for her because they live and breath leftist politics.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  433. Anderson Cooper concluded spin that JR doesn’t have stamina because he drank water and Maudie didn’t.

    WTF. We know why Maudie avoids =cough= water…

    DCSCA

    I think you’re right that Hillary avoided water the entire time simply because that has something to do with her cough. It was kinda weird that she went that long without a sip.

    On the other hand, Trump really did have less stamina than her, getting tired a third of the way through, breaking a sweat he had to wipe away, and that thing with his nose. Whereas Hillary looked unchanged by the end of the 90 minutes.

    No doubt Hillary collapsed into a heap of old to recuperate, but at least on TV she kept her crap together pretty well. Trump was trying to pressure her all night, leading to an apparently planned attack at the end about stamina that Hillary answered by beaming a smile. He failed. There were times when Hillary just looked at the camera, while Trump flailed and flailed, and smiled, as if to say to the audience “LOL He’s losing”.

    Trump’s fans are reciting a chorus about how he’s not a real polished politician and that’s why he debated like this. But yesterday they were saying he’s the debate Babe Ruth. Trump’s expectations were a lot higher than his performance.

    I don’t know, maybe Trump supporters are skewing ALL the polls, and you are right and this will be what loses the election for Trump. After all, it’s not like nevertrumpers have ever made that claim before…

    LBascom

    Dude, we both know that they are in fact engaging in that pathetic practice. I didn’t bother posting more links but you can easily go to that subreddit and check for yourself. Trump fans are identifying every poll you’re citing and encouraging eachother to skew it, and then they cite the skewed poll as proof of… something. No one thought these polls proved anything, and you insult our intelligence every time you cite one.

    He’s just a politician, man. He’s not worth this kind of worship. Lighten up, Francis. You’re going to blow an O-Ring on election day if you keep this up.

    Trump lost the debates in the primary to the extent that he even chickened out of one. That he won anyway is quite an indictment on your political party.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  434. Trump lost the debates in the primary to the extent that he even chickened out of one. That he won anyway is quite an indictment on your political party.

    You are dishonest through and through.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  435. It isn’t that, it’s that the Trump side has a savvy online presence, especially the alt-right “S-lord” sort. Also, more enthusiasm. So, more are available filling out polls.

    Hillary voters aren’t enthusiastic about her as an individual, but they’ll pull the lever for her because they live and breath leftist politics.

    Denver Gu

    It’s not really savvy that Stormfronters seek out polls on websites they don’t actually visit and then start flooding threads with links to the BS results as though they mean something. It’s just worship.

    I definitely agree that Hillary’s voters aren’t enthusiastic. It’s Hillary Clinton, one of the most corrupt politicians even in the democrat party. Meanwhile Trump brags he could murder someone in the streets and his fans would still support him. He would lead like he faces no consequences. He is dangerous.

    We do not want leaders that are worshiped. I’m not pulling the lever for Hillary because I am leftist. I’m pulling the lever for Hillary because while she will be a terrible president, Trump would be destructive. And besides, Trump is more leftist than Hillary if you examine his long term record. Dude thinks Hillary would be a great president and W was the worst president in American history. Why would any conservative vote for Code Pink?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  436. You are dishonest through and through.

    Denver Guy

    Actually, that was mostly an opinion. The only ‘facts’ in there are that Trump dodged one of the primary debates, which is true, and that he nevertheless was nominated, which is also true.

    You Trump Defense Force guys don’t understand that a lot of Americans do not agree with your opinions, and they are being totally honest about this. You won’t get it in November when your guy is crushed like he was on TV last night either. You will insist there’s something ‘dishonest’ about democracy.

    I would suggest decaf.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  437. Lbascom, you should chime in on this thread as you’re very interested in this topic.

    Trump fans keep second to second updates on the performance of that Time poll Lbascom posted as proof Trump won the debate. Unfortunately it looks like Time adjusted the results (removed the duplicate IP votes?) and Trump isn’t doing as well, which is an outrage to many in the thread.

    Fascinating to watch these people put so much energy into being dishonest. One man makes an impassioned plea about how people might change their minds based on who wins the poll, as we all want to follow the herd of opinion.

    Not one person says ‘hey, maybe we shouldn’t skew the poll in the first place’. I bet if you said that you’d be banned. I’ve never actually commented in that the Trump subreddit, but I was already banned, which is really interesting as it means they go around banning every dissenter they can before they even show up.

    “[–]TurboThoughts[S] 1 point 10 minutes ago
    :-) we f**ked up these online polls and may have saved us from a ‘bad’ news night.”

    Yes, Labscom, I believe my lying eyes. These losers really are doing this, and anyone Trumpkin citing an online poll is likely engaging in it and certainly aware of it.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  438. The link to the thread I reference in my previous comment.

    Hilarious.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  439. No nuclear first strike against non-nuclear nations is part of the Non-Proliferation Treaty to which the United States is a signatory. It’s a totally different animal from no nuclear first strike against nuclear powers. That second is what we have never agreed to. But Trumpkins are as ignorant about the NPT as the OSP (orange-skinned pansy) is.

    nk (dbc370)

  440. gp (0c542c) — 9/26/2016 @ 9:05 pm

    I’d add that HRC was far better prepared; she knew how to get him ranting and then stand back and watch. I’m disappointed DJT was so poorly prepared, and so easily baited.

    She was prepared for responses taht he didn’t make, but could have made, and proteted against them in advance. She really lost on he “stop and frisk” issue, which Trump knew a little bit. If you think he did well on the crime and racial relations issu(s) you don’t know what a good response would be.

    Hillary was basically stuck to her wrong position on that issue, and debunking it or criticizing it was extremely easy, the way Romney was able to get the better of Barack Obama in the first debate in 2012 because the debate was about the economy not that Romney was so right in his positions in my opinion, but because Obama was simply wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  441. One thing: Does Donald Trump realize that “Stop and frisk” is dependent on New York State’s Sullivan law – that it would be not be possible if the National Rifle Association had its way and possession of a gun, and especially concealed carry, was not illegal for just about everyone?

    Well, that’s a zinger a liberal couldn’t say, because that would put them in favor of what’s loosely called “stop and frisk.” Or maybe it’s that they just can’t think of it.

    I’ll have to gather my thoughts maybe to explain why that zinger is never used. Partly it’s because the argument against “stop and frisk” is plagiarized and they only know how to repeat things.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  442. The consensus is that Trump had a very uneven performance, which I agree with. He had several bad answers. But those bad answers were largely when he personally was the topic.

    However, as I said earlier, on topics not about himself, I thought Trump bested her. Those questions he did better on just happen to be what regular people care about. And he also did a good job of hammering home about Hillary being part of the status quo etc. Some folks in a bar seem to confirm my theory.

    I think that, once again, people may be misunderstanding how Trump connects to people.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  443. Interesting: Trump indicated he prepared for the debate, because he said he watched old Hillary-Obama debates. And he also reviewed his financial statements.

    Although he didn’t engage in a mock debate. But he did have Giuliani (and others?) peppering him with possible questions. There must not have been one about cyber-attacks.

    In mock debates, the person playing the opponent might not be at all like the real person.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  444. Debates have to be scored on the basis of whether what the person says makes sense, to a not previously well-informed person. A lot was inconclusive. I think Hillary was put into a wrong position more often. A lot of good points, by both sides, probably were missed by most of the audience. They needed to be repeated.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  445. 462. Don’t call her Maudie, call her Tracey Flick, if you like.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0)

  446. Debates have to be scored on the basis of whether what the person says makes sense, to a not previously well-informed person.

    Sammy Finkelman (3915d0) — 9/27/2016 @ 6:26 am

    That and also whether the person even cares about what they’re talking about.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  447. Does Donald Trump realize that “Stop and frisk” is dependent on New York State’s Sullivan law – that it would be not be possible if the National Rifle Association had its way and possession of a gun, and especially concealed carry, was not illegal for just about everyone?

    Good point, Sammy! Trumpkins do not understand that “stop and frisk” and the Second Amendment* are not compatible**. That if there is constitutional carry, there is no basis for “stop and frisk”. Their sugar-daddy spews out pablum and they lick it up.

    *Not the Fourth Amendment, either, but freedom has already won on that one so I won’t beat a dead badger.
    **Some might — more than a few here would rather be “safe” than free — and still prefer increased police authority over the right to keep and bear arms.

    nk (dbc370)

  448. We’re talking about public safety that scheindlin and mayor bane don’t give a farthing about.

    narciso (d1f714)

  449. One thing: Does Donald Trump realize that “Stop and frisk” is dependent on New York State’s Sullivan law – that it would be not be possible if the National Rifle Association had its way and possession of a gun, and especially concealed carry, was not illegal for just about everyone?

    Good point, Sammy! Trumpkins do not understand that “stop and frisk” and the Second Amendment* are not compatible**. That if there is constitutional carry, there is no basis for “stop and frisk”. Their sugar-daddy spews out pablum and they lick it up.

    nk (dbc370) — 9/27/2016 @ 6:32 am

    First of all, stop and frisk is not just looking for guns.

    Second the gun still has to be legally registered, as opposed to stolen. Which is likely the case in neighborhoods where they would do a lot of stop and frisk. Under legal concealed carry, if they frisk someone who’s carrying a legally owned gun, they just have to give it back.

    Stop and frisk does have serious fourth amendment problems, but it has no logical connection whatsoever to gun rights that I can see.

    Try again.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  450. The irony is she allowed an assassination of someone she said was a friend and made it seem like it was a mugging.

    narciso (d1f714)

  451. Magic eightball is they always let the innocent perish, black white or brown, see Haiti nigeria, Libya.

    narciso (d1f714)

  452. You mean it’s also about knives and other weapons? Yes, yes, it is. But even under the most relaxed standard for stopping a person on the street and patting him down, “stop and frisk”, it is only a pat down for weapons. Weapons! W-e-a-p-o-n-s!

    nk (dbc370)

  453. I guess in Chicago it’s stop and shakedown, am I wrong?

    narciso (d1f714)

  454. Second the gun still has to be legally registered, as opposed to stolen.

    Very few places have “legally registered” guns. Chicago did, but no longer does after MacDonald. DC did but it was struck down in Heller and it’s fighting to reinstate it. I suppose New York City still does?

    When people say “legally registered gun”, it means they don’t know what they’re talking about and have gotten their information about guns and gun laws from TV shows.

    nk (dbc370)

  455. Want to address the point — that stop and frisk under the most lax standard, Terry v. Ohio, is for weapons, or make noise?

    nk (dbc370)

  456. Actually, this deserves its own post. The NRA has egg on its face.

    nk (dbc370)

  457. Yes it’s too weed out the lawbreakers from the law abiding.

    narciso (d1f714)

  458. So is a KGB raid on your house at 3:00 a.m. to look for a copy of The Gulag Archipelago. If carrying a gun on the street is not illegal, then you are law-abiding and there is no basis for stop and frisk. Stop and frisk is not compatible with the right to keep and bear arms. BTW, have you heard of something called open carry?

    nk (dbc370)

  459. The argument wasn’t about lawful possession but racist police,

    narciso (d1f714)

  460. And the counselor has goat spunk on his…

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  461. Howard Dean assumes the role last played by scrawny scrapper Harry Reid in 2012.

    Dean… Reid… some asshole from Austin… I think I see a pattern here…

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  462. Second the gun still has to be legally registered, as opposed to stolen.

    Very few places have “legally registered” guns. Chicago did, but no longer does after MacDonald. DC did but it was struck down in Heller and it’s fighting to reinstate it. I suppose New York City still does?

    When people say “legally registered gun”, it means they don’t know what they’re talking about and have gotten their information about guns and gun laws from TV shows.

    nk (dbc370) — 9/27/2016 @ 6:57 am

    Actually it’s not just the gun but whether they have a permit to be able to legally own a gun at all. The bottom line is, under stop and frisk, they can’t take away someone’s gun if they have a legal right to carry it. Gun registration would apply in those places where it’s required as well.

    Under stop and frisk they can’t charge someone with a crime for having a gun they were legally entitled to have any more than they can charge them for carrying a ball point pen. There is no connection between stop and frisk and gun rights.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  463. You would think he’d be campaigning to her did of the law,not ignoring Heller. btw Scott had a stolen piece.

    narciso (d1f714)

  464. And, as usual, Haiku contributes nothing but noise.

    nk (dbc370)

  465. And sharing his sexual fantasies.

    nk (dbc370)

  466. Its not a primary debate, it’s about what appeals to most people, sheesh.

    narciso (d1f714)

  467. So CNN who had her ahead from the getgo, like the duntz lost ground and ppp, Shirley you,,,

    narciso (d1f714)

  468. You think too highly of yourself, counselor. Your ex-wife complained that every time she’d admonish you about remembering the “G-spot”, you’d stop what you were doing to rush outside and blow a goat.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  469. Tmi, red queen pretends I work here is done and Russia definitely hacked the dnc, neither is clear.

    narciso (d1f714)

  470. And I’d wager the twenty-odd countries you’d be allowed to live exist in either have no sanctions against bestiality or it’s “no harm – no fowl”…

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  471. Let’s remember Patterico’s request to refrain from personal attacks.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  472. Yup, happyfeet has the same trick. Somebody makes a good point on the thread and he kills with noise after noise after noise.

    nk (dbc370)

  473. Actually coronello brings a data point and you go squirrel, it was a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing told by a ridham

    narciso (d1f714)

  474. Start reading your own posts, counselor, and then speak of “good points” and “noise”.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  475. Dreck.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  476. Haiku, you got up on the wrong side of the bed! Lighten up!

    If it makes you feel better I think Hillary would also have a fascinating toxicology report.

    BTW Nk is very much right about our rights. Terry stops are intended for specific articulable suspicions. You can’t specifically suspect everybody. That’s a Papers Please world where the peasants live under the thumb of the powerful.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  477. Speak to Teh Hand, Hillary voter.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  478. Actually coronello brings a data point and you go squirrel, it was a whole lot of sound and fury signifying nothing told by a ridham

    1. What was the data point?
    2. What was the squirrel?

    nk (dbc370)

  479. Dustin, Trumpkins, have nothing more than Trump has. The stuff you find in a cow pasture.

    nk (dbc370)

  480. Speak to Teh Hand, Hillary voter.

    Colonel Haiku

    Hey, Haiku’s hand, please grab some decaf if you can stop shaking in fury.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  481. Heh… Laying down looking at the placid Pacific Ocean out my sliding door as I goof on the mooks… I am so furious.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  482. This Powerline post doesn’t surprise me.

    TRUMP WINS MOST IMMEDIATE POLLS

    By any conventional way of analyzing debates Trump had a pretty rocky performance. But, he did manage to get some excellent points in as well, on the things people actually care about. And most of his not so hot parts were on topics that regular people just don’t care about.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  483. Yeah, Haiku, you really do seem more upset than even your normal irritable self. If you’re just ‘goofing on us mooks’ that’s good to hear but I don’t believe you. Maybe take a break from politics for a while. It’s going to be stressful watching Hillary win. Stressful for me too… she’s going to be a terrible president, but at least I don’t care about the ruined, Trump dominated GOP. They deserve what’s coming.

    It’s like Trump being ugly to others. He doesn’t do that because he’s the happy person he tells everyone he is. He’s lying about that, defensively. You can tell how happy someone is by how ugly they are to others.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  484. “Oh, come on, man, I was just kidding, can’t you take a joke?”, he whined piteously as he was about to get his lights punched out.

    nk (dbc370)

  485. I heard Hillary say something. I thought I missed something.

    I just checked the trascript and I see I didn’t miss anything.

    What Hillary said here….

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/us/politics/transcript-debate.html?_r=0

    CLINTON: I think — I think — I think Donald just criticized me for preparing for this debate. And, yes, I did. And you know what else I prepared for? I prepared to be president. And I think that’s a good thing.

    (APPLAUSE)

    …. was a prepared soundbite.

    The only problem is, Donald Trump didn’t say anything to prompt it.

    They probably expected Donald Trump to contrast his lack of preparation with her preparation, and to say they are canned responses, because they knew he wasn’t going through any mock debates and had refused two Republicans, one of them I think maybe Joni Ernst, who had volunteered to play Hillary.

    Now this is the kind of thing that lawyers may often encounter in court. A witness may get asked did you prepare your testimony. And lawyers caution witnesees NOT to say no, because they did, and it would be a lie. They can give reasons why that does not pervert their testimony.

    So Hillary had her prepared answer, but Donald did not make the charge!

    That’s maybe why Hillary said: I think — I think — I think

    Three times before she finally decided to go ahead and say it.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  486. Gerald, sincere question:

    Are the polls Powerline is discussing in any way scientific?

    CNN/ORC’s snap poll, gave Clinton the win with 62 per cent to Trump’s 27.

    It was the biggest, and fastest, exercise conducted by an opinion polling firm.

    The poll of 521 registered voters who watched the debate was a sample which the network warned leaned more Democratic than the average – starting the night with Clinton ahead 26 per cent among the sample.

    And while it handed the victory overwhelmingly to Clinton, it was more mixed on whether the debate will make a difference, with 47 per cent saying it would not affect their vote, 34 per cent saying it moved them towards Clinton – and 18 per cent towards Trump.

    Online polls carried out afterwards gave a different outcome – handing the title to Trump.

    Such polls are self-selecting, and more likely to pick up the views of those who vote, although CNN’s study also reflected a similar bias.

    The Drudge Report’s poll showed Trump fared better with 81.5 per cent of the vote to Clinton’s 18.5 while others, including Time, CBS New York and the Washington Times, also saw Trump win the vote.

    That’s from the link in Powerline’s post. Yeah, Trump, like Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders, won all the polls where you go to a website and vote 150 times in a row, impotently.

    The article and Powerline aren’t doing a very good job distinguishing scientific polling, where the pollster calls a bunch of people, from polls where respondents seek the pollster.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  487. Those call-in numbers can still tell us something. Trump got 13.4 million votes in the primaries. Did 13.4 million people call in to say he won the debate? I bet not. I bet he’s lost a lot of support.

    LOL

    nk (dbc370)

  488. At #18 I wrote:

    If she cites a source, or an authority for a statement of fact or opinion, including “people tell me” or “I read” or anything that attributes the thought or the claim to other people:
    It’s a LIE.

    She actually didn’t do much of that.

    But she didn’t avoid it entirely:

    CLINTON: …. Independent experts have looked at what I’ve proposed and …. looked at …. what Donald’s proposed, and basically they’ve said this, that if his tax plan, which would blow up the debt by over $5 trillion and would in some instances disadvantage middle-class families compared to the wealthy, were to go into effect, we would lose 3.5 million jobs and maybe have another recession.

    They’ve looked at my plans and they’ve said, OK, if we can do this, and I intend to get it done, we will have 10 million more new jobs, because we will be making investments where we can grow the economy.

    END of what the “experts” said probably.

    The truth?

    Nobody can make such predictions, and every economist knows it, and the prediction they made was probably deliberately manipulated to come up with such a result, and the experts aren’t independent.

    And it’s highly unlikely to pass Congress. I mean the Republicans are probably still going to maintain control of the House of Represenatatives in all probability. And very few members of Congress, even Democrats, are likely to vote for such a huge increase in the estate tax.

    She raises it very high in order to at least partially “pay for” things with taxes on the wealthy.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  489. C’mon, nk, you can barely get up out of your chair. Don’t tire yourself out, save your energy for crabbing at the attendant who spoon feeds you.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  490. Now, that’s true about you, it’s my guess, lardbutt. It’s Trump/Trumpkin tactics to project.

    nk (dbc370)

  491. She repeats looked at a little bit further along in the debate:

    CLINTON: …. And people have looked at both of our plans, have concluded that mine would create 10 million jobs and yours would lose us 3.5 million jobs, and explode the debt which would have a recession.

    At this point Donald Trump stumbled and first said “tax cut” when he meant “tax increase”

    Hillary mentions the fact checking on her website at this point. (to explain the economic analysis.)

    Later on, maybe she says they are not independent experta, because she says:

    HOLT: This is — this is Secretary Clinton’s two minutes, please.

    TRUMP: Yes.

    CLINTON: Yeah, well, let’s start the clock again, Lester. We’ve looked at your tax proposals.

    Who looked at it? You mean the Clinton campaign? I thought it was the independent experts, or “people”

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  492. No, I’m fairly fit. No surgeries, hip or knee replacements, canes or wheel chairs for me, knock on wood. Just enjoying life with my happy wife of 40 years and enjoying seeing our children live productive lives, enjoying our grandchild and anticipating the birth of a grandson in early November.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  493. Happy wife, happy life is a true axiom.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  494. I was going to mock Haiku for boasting about himself like the Donald, but 40 years of marriage is awesome. Props for that. Decaf still advised.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  495. Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/27/2016 @ 8:37 am

    Are the polls Powerline is discussing in any way scientific?

    They’re about as scientific as the Literary Digest poll in 1936.

    RESPONSE BIAS.

    The poll consists of volunteered responses.

    Now in that election, after the first results came in, bias was suspected and people didn’t answer.

    It was later claimed (by George Gallup) that the Literary Digest used lists of people with telephone numbers and a lot of people didn’t have telephones during the Great Depression – and from before – but ballots had been distributed in post offices and all over.

    The straw poll had worked in 1928 and 1932 (however far back they did it)

    This time the ballot was being stuffed by pro-Landon people, and pro-Rossevelt began to doubt the poll and didn’t answer it.

    So this poll is no good. One possible check is to ask other questions, and then adjust them by the answers, assuming people will tell the truth about the other answers and that the answers correlate, like as if you surveyed just Texas and adjusted the numbers to predict the presidential election for the country as a whole.

    You could do a big poll maybe about TV watching or sports attending, or movies or detergents or banks and append the election questions at the end. That might help.

    Such polls are self-selecting, and more likely to pick up the views of those who vote,

    but they could also exaggerate enthusiasm, or be packed in some way.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  496. Sumatra blend… CAFFEINATED!

    Never discount the enthusiasm of the voters. He seems to have them. She… Not so much.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  497. Yeah, I can’t imagine anyone actually enjoying voting for Hillary, but these days you have to also count on the enthusiasm of voting against someone too.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  498. They’re about as scientific as the Literary Digest poll in 1936.

    Hey man, I’m not going to pretend to be something I’m not. I have no idea what this means.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  499. Liberal fascism needs something to focus its hate on and Trump voters, if they weren’t already aware, will soon learn that they’ve been tagged.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  500. Sammy, I apologize. You made your point clear and I misread your comment at 9:08 am badly.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  501. @Dustin Well, you need my explanation of the 1936 Literary Digest poll to understand what I said it, and I sid not write it all that clearly, or maybe it wasn’t clear I was going to explain what i meant.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  502. Donald Trump was right in saying that China had enormous power over North Korea – but Iran also??

    If he says something that is true, he has to add something that is not true? By virtue of what would Iran have such power – buying weapons? he’s really pverrating trade here. If it isn’t just a lie.

    Now you could say the two atomic bomb projects needed to be linked.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  503. Among the shenanigans Clinton resorted to was alleged fat shaming by Trump. Hillary’s! Fat Ass is a thing and 3 closets full of pantsuits won’t hide it. Here’s some of what the Fat Ass was referring to, from 20 years ago…

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/366041.php

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  504. Good moment near the end for Donald Trump:

    CLINTON: …The other day, I saw Donald saying that there were some Iranian sailors on a ship in the waters off of Iran, and they were taunting American sailors who were on a nearby ship. He said, you know, if they taunted our sailors, I’d blow them out of the water and start another war. That’s not good judgment.

    TRUMP: That would not start a war.

    And for Hillary Clinton:

    CLINTON: … But it’s like his plan to defeat ISIS. He says it’s a secret plan, but the only secret is that he has no plan.

    This was a real zinger by Donald trump, which most people may not realize is the truth:

    TRUMP: … I agree with her on one thing. The single greatest problem the world has is nuclear armament, nuclear weapons, not global warming, like you think and your — your president thinks.

    Bill Clinton actually started saying that with regard to China. That that was the greatest threat to thew United States from China.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  505. Zito’s insta pol.

    narciso (d1f714)

  506. Good point, Sammy! Trumpkins do not understand that “stop and frisk” and the Second Amendment* are not compatible**. That if there is constitutional carry, there is no basis for “stop and frisk”. Their sugar-daddy spews out pablum and they lick it up.

    That’s one mighty big “if”.

    Agree to the premise, but it’s a phoney premise in the big cities where stop and frisk would be effective at reducing murder.

    Sure, it would be great if the second amendment was not infringed.When ALL the people can carry a gun in Chicago, you might have an argument. As is you are being too clever by half.

    LBascom (c230be)

  507. Good point, Sammy! Trumpkins do not understand that “stop and frisk” and the Second Amendment* are not compatible**. That if there is constitutional carry, there is no basis for “stop and frisk”. Their sugar-daddy spews out pablum and they lick it up.

    That’s one mighty big “if”.

    Agree to the premise, but it’s a phoney premise in the big cities where stop and frisk would be effective at reducing murder.

    Sure, it would be great if the second amendment was not infringed.When ALL the people can carry a gun in Chicago, you might have an argument. As is you are being too clever by half.

    LBascom (c230be) — 9/27/2016 @ 10:07 am

    The second amendment is not infringed by stop and frisk unless the cops confiscate guns that people that they are legally entitled to own or somehow charge them with a crime when they legally own the gun (where concealed carry is permitted). Stop and frisk doesn’t entitle them to do either of those things. A judge should have no trouble putting a stop to such a practice – without even bringing the second amendment into the decision.

    There’s nothing in the constitution about the right to possess a pen. Does that mean they can charge someone with possessing a pen?

    I think the main thing they’re looking for in stop and frisks is illegal drugs. Because illegal drugs are, you know, illegal. Undoubtedly, if concealed carry is allowed, illegal guns (where they don’t have a permit or whatever) are another item they’re interested in.

    Stop and frisk does have fourth amendment problems.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  508. You’re entitled to your opinion of how Trump did but I don’t know how anyone could picture Romney or Ryan destroying Clinton.

    Patterico could have destroyed Hillary. I could have done better than Trump. Anyone who could 1) marshal facts; 2) speak coherently; and 3) stay on point could have done better than Trump. Good God, he had a free opportunity to talk about her aides all getting immunity deals and instead he went off-topic to ramble about his TAXES.

    Own goal after own goal. OF COURSE Romney or Ryan could have done better, you bloody idiot.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  509. You’re entitled to your opinion of how Trump did…

    And you sound like Hillary.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  510. Trump is not a professional politician. He does not give smooth, tailored answers. He doesn’t know how to talk over the heads of voters with vaguely convincing wonkiness.

    All this is why he beat the 17 other Republicans.

    No, he won because he had a lock on the low-information-voters and the weird-information-voters while the others were splitting the sane people and the GOP had idiotic primary rules which favored pluralities.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  511. NBC tries to claim that Donald Trump was wrong about stop and frisk redcing murder. The basis for that is that stop and frisk began declining in 2011 but crime continued to decline. And there’s claim it atarted to decline again this year in New York City.

    Now the truth is, it as not “stop and frisk” but rather a “virtuous cycle” where the average length of time someone could commit crimes rguarly and stay out of jail went down. It’s not all “stop-and-frisk.”

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  512. We need to have a runoff 2 candidate primary, and it should be a 50 state contest. And it should be a closed contest. The two candidates can make their speeches on the first night of the primary, and the party can vote for the next 24 hours. If not that, then the delegates should indeed be free to vote their conscience, something Trump was desperate to avoid this year.

    This.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  513. You missed my point Gerald. I’m saying IF the second amendment wasn’t being infringed, stop and frisk wouldn’t make sense. But, in the big cities where the honest are not allowed guns and are vulnerable to the armed criminal, stop and frisk is an effective tool for the police to protect the non criminals.

    Yes, it probably is a violation of the fourth amendment if you believe profiling is a violation, but then that’s the problem with unconstitutionally infringing the right to bear arms, it opens the other amendments up to infringement.

    LBascom (c230be)

  514. “TRUMP WINS MOST IMMEDIATE POLLS: “The newspaper collected screen shots of 19 ‘snap’ polls conducted immediately after the debate, and in 17 of them, most respondents said Trump won the debate, often by a wide margin. It isn’t just Drudge and Breitbart; Trump also got more votes than Clinton in instant polls at Time, Slate, Variety and other liberal outlets. I can’t explain it, other than to say that perhaps it tells us more about how people view Hillary Clinton than about how Donald Trump actually performed.”

    Well, certainly one explanation is a repeat of the “Ron Paul Revolution” days of early 2008 – but as with Paul’s quixotic presidential bid, having a large enough group of dedicated zealots to tilt Internet polls does not necessarily translate into sufficient votes at the ballot box where it counts.

    It seems safe to say that Trump’s core followers are much more passionate than Hillary’s. We’ll know soon enough if there are a majority of them.”

    — Ed Driscoll, Instapundit

    Colonel Haiku (f22a59)

  515. Patterico could have destroyed Hillary. I could have done better than Trump. Anyone who could 1) marshal facts; 2) speak coherently; and 3) stay on point could have done better than Trump.

    Good God, he had a free opportunity to talk about her aides all getting immunity deals and instead he went off-topic to ramble about his TAXES.

    Own goal after own goal. OF COURSE Romney or Ryan could have done better, you bloody idiot.

    Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/27/2016 @ 10:25 am

    He talked about his taxes since Holt brought it up. What is wrong with you?

    HOLT: Mr. Trump, we’re talking about the burden that Americans have to pay, yet you have not released your tax returns. And the reason nominees have released their returns for decades is so that voters will know if their potential president owes money to — who he owes it to and any business conflicts. Don’t Americans have a right to know if there are any conflicts of interest?

    TRUMP: I don’t mind releasing — I’m under a routine audit. And it’ll be released. And — as soon as the audit’s finished, it will be released.

    But you will learn more about Donald Trump by going down to the federal elections, where I filed a 104-page essentially financial statement of sorts, the forms that they have. It shows income — in fact, the income — I just looked today — the income is filed at $694 million for this past year, $694 million. If you would have told me I was going to make that 15 or 20 years ago, I would have been very surprised.

    But that’s the kind of thinking that our country needs. When we have a country that’s doing so badly, that’s being ripped off by every single country in the world, it’s the kind of thinking that our country needs, because everybody — Lester, we have a trade deficit with all of the countries that we do business with, of almost $800 billion a year. You know what that is? That means, who’s negotiating these trade deals?

    We have people that are political hacks negotiating our trade deals.

    HOLT: The IRS says an audit…

    TRUMP: Excuse me.

    HOLT: … of your taxes — you’re perfectly free to release your taxes during an audit. And so the question, does the public’s right to know outweigh your personal…

    TRUMP: Well, I told you, I will release them as soon as the audit. Look, I’ve been under audit almost for 15 years. I know a lot of wealthy people that have never been audited. I said, do you get audited? I get audited almost every year.

    And in a way, I should be complaining. I’m not even complaining. I don’t mind it. It’s almost become a way of life. I get audited by the IRS. But other people don’t.

    I will say this. We have a situation in this country that has to be taken care of. I will release my tax returns — against my lawyer’s wishes — when she releases her 33,000 e-mails that have been deleted. As soon as she releases them, I will release.

    (APPLAUSE)

    I will release my tax returns. And that’s against — my lawyers, they say, “Don’t do it.” I will tell you this. No — in fact, watching shows, they’re reading the papers. Almost every lawyer says, you don’t release your returns until the audit’s complete. When the audit’s complete, I’ll do it. But I would go against them if she releases her e-mails.

    HOLT: So it’s negotiable?

    TRUMP: It’s not negotiable, no. Let her release the e-mails. Why did she delete 33,000…

    In any case, once again you’re going on about not liking his answers. You’ve still said nothing that convinces me that Romney or Ryan would have destroyed Clinton.

    In the Romney-Obama debate, Romney somehow allowed Benghazi to be turned against him by Obama. In the Biden-Ryan debate, Ryan let Biden claim that Obamacare wasn’t forcing religious institutions to fund abortions. He mainly seemed to be trying to come across as nice. Biden’s weird facial expressions hurt him but nothing Ryan said did. I’m supposed to believe they would have destroyed Hillary?

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  516. @466. Dude.

    There’s something wrong with her. So JR was animated. He expended energy. He even waked the spin room.

    Maudie showed up, walked to a down-sized podium ( in pumps, not flats) clung to it for 90 minutes, drank no water, walked a few feet to the edge of the stage, shook some hands and had to be helped up a step by Bubba, then held up by him as she was whisked off stage… staggered to her SUV and left. No rope line chatter with the press for her.

    Dude. Use your common sense. There’s something wrong with her. And the thing is, nobody would likely hold it against her– it might even draw sympathy and a rally for courage– but keeping it a secret– deceiving the American people– is unforgivable.

    These habits run in their family. Her husband lied to us. He was impeached.

    She has no stamina. There’s something wrong with her.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  517. At Crystal Cove beach, where every often, the shore real is so fierce it sounds like thunderclaps…

    Colonel Haiku (f22a59)

  518. Never trust a guy who brags about his high IQ.

    Colonel Haiku (f22a59)

  519. New Y\ork Times reporter Robert Draper on Twitter:

    Robert Draper
    ✔ ‎@DraperRobert

    I actually talked to Sean Hannity about Iraq. He said no transcripts or audio to confirm Trump’s claim.

    10:22 PM – 26 Sep 2016 · East Garden City, NY, United States

    Next question: How far back does the claim go?

    Can the fact of the conversations at least be verified?

    Also, if true, was he aying something different in private than in public?

    1,390 1,390 Retweets

    1,454 1,454 likes

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  520. DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/27/2016 @ 10:56 am

    There’s something wrong with her. And the thing is, nobody would likely hold it against her– it might even draw sympathy and a rally for courage–

    Not just that. Some people might vote for her because of poor health and stamina.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  521. This thing was passed over very quickly last night without comment, yet it’s important.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/27/us/politics/transcript-debate.html?_r=1

    TRUMP:
    …Now, look, we have the worst revival of an economy since the Great Depression. And believe me: We’re in a bubble right now. And the only thing that looks good is the stock market, but if you raise interest rates even a little bit, that’s going to come crashing down.

    We are in a big, fat, ugly bubble. And we better be awfully careful. And we have a Fed that’s doing political things. This Janet Yellen of the Fed. The Fed is doing political — by keeping the interest rates at this level. And believe me: The day Obama goes off, and he leaves, and goes out to the golf course for the rest of his life to play golf, when they raise interest rates, you’re going to see some very bad things happen, because the Fed is not doing their job. The Fed is being more political than Secretary Clinton.

    He’s saying the recovery will end soon after Obama stops being president because interest rates will go up.

    Well, is he for it or against it?

    I’m not sure what Donald Trump’s position is on interest rates. Does he think they inevitably have to go up and the Fed can only postpone it? Does he think, or at least adopt the thinking for now, that tax cuts will compensate for a rise in interest rates?

    Does he have any thoughts at all?

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  522. CLINTON: Do the thousands of people that you have stiffed over the course of your business not deserve some kind of apology from someone who has taken their labor, taken the goods that they produced, and then refused to pay them?

    I can only say that I’m certainly relieved that my late father never did business with you. He provided a good middle-class life for us, but the people he worked for, he expected the bargain to be kept on both sides.

    And when we talk about your business, you’ve taken business bankruptcy six times. There are a lot of great businesspeople that have never taken bankruptcy once. You call yourself the King of Debt. You talk about leverage. You even at one time suggested that you would try to negotiate down the national debt of the United States.

    TRUMP: Wrong. Wrong.

    He did actually. Or came close to it. Hillary was pretty, pretty careful here. She said Donald Trump at one time suggested he would try to renegotiate the debt down. At first the accusation was repudiate.

    It could be called an amatuer’s mistake and would be OK.

    By the way, Clinton’s campaigns have many time stiffed vendors, but Trump doesn’t know that so he can’t say that. (or maybe that’s no answer anyway.)

    Jeb Bush ended his campaign a bit early because he didn’t want to owe anybody money.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  523. Mother Jones’s compilation of trump statements about Iraq 2000-2007:

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/every-position-donald-trump-iraq

    ◾”I’m no warmonger. But the fact is, if we decide a strike against Iraq is necessary, it is madness not to carry the mission to its conclusion. When we don’t, we have the worst of all worlds: Iraq remains a threat, and now has more incentive than ever to attack us.” (Trump’s 2000 book, The America We Deserve)

    ◾”Yeah, I guess so; I wish the first time it was done correctly.” (Interview with Howard Stern, 2002)

    ◾”Either you attack or you don’t attack.” (Interview with Neil Cavuto, 2003)

    ◾”Well, he has either got to do something or not do something, perhaps, because perhaps shouldn’t be doing it yet and perhaps we should be waiting for the United Nations, you know. He’s under a lot of pressure. He’s—I think he’s doing a very good job.” (Same interview)

    [Trump says he had numerous phone conversations with Sean Hannity – in early 2003? – in which they argued, as Sean Hannity tried to get Donald Trump to be more pro-war. Presumably, he didn’t satisfy Sean Hannity and Sean Hannity didn’t put him on the air or is it he didn’t ask him about Iraq on the air, because Donald Trump wouldn’t say whatever it was that Sean Hannity wanted him to say about war with Iraq.]

    ◾”I think Wall Street’s waiting to see what happens but even before the fact they’re obviously taking it a little bit for granted and it looks like a tremendous success from a military standpoint and I think this is really nothing compared to what you’re gonna see after the war is over.” (Fox News, one day into the 2003 invasion)

    ◾”Look at the war in Iraq and the mess that we’re in. I would never have handled it that way. Does anybody really believe that Iraq is going to be a wonderful democracy where people are going to run down to the voting box and gently put in their ballot and the winner is happily going to step up to lead the county? C’mon. Two minutes after we leave, there’s going to be a revolution, and the meanest, toughest, smartest, most vicious guy will take over. And he’ll have weapons of mass destruction, which Saddam didn’t have.” (Esquire, 2004)

    ◾”How do they get out? You know how they get out? They get out. That’s how they get out. Declare victory and leave. Because I’ll tell you, this country is just going to get further bogged down. They’re in a civil war over there, Wolf. There’s nothing that we’re going to be able to do with a civil war. They are in a major civil war.” (CNN, 2007)

    That last sounds Senator George Aiken’s (R-Vt.) formula for ending the war in Vietnam. Or what the formula is supposed to be, only it’s not true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Aiken

    Aiken is widely quoted as saying that the U.S. should declare victory and bring the troops home.[20] His actual statement was:
    “The United States could well declare unilaterally … that we have ‘won’ in the sense that our armed forces are in control of most of the field and no potential enemy is in a position to establish its authority over South Vietnam,” and that such a declaration “would herald the resumption of political warfare as the dominant theme in Vietnam.”

    He added: “It may be a far-fetched proposal, but nothing else has worked.”[21]

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  524. The contortions Trumpkins go through. They bend over so much to suck Trump’s dick that they stick their heads up their own butts.

    nk (dbc370)

  525. beg your pardon

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  526. @554- – but keeping it a secret– deceiving the American people– is unforgivable.

    Sammy. Be like the late, great Arnold Palmer: follow-through on your swing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  527. 558… Awesome!

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  528. According to some people, the stock market’s gain today was due to Hillary’s perceived debate win.

    I find it hard to believe that would actually move the market up for several reasons, but that website qualifies as mainstream media. If it did it do that then the debate helped my portfolio for at least one day.

    Those who follow the markets will likely recall that the market was doing very well heading into the Brexit vote, based on the belief that Remain would win. The possible similarity between that and the POTUS race is obvious. I’ve previously quoted top money manager Jeffrey Gundlach who sees a parallel between Trump and the Brexit vote. He’s been predicting Trump will win since early this year I believe. This interview was done when Trump was behind by double digits. He was unfazed by that and reiterated his Trump victory prediction.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  529. Never trust a guy who brags about his high IQ.

    But his wealth is OK? Or his hand size?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  530. I find it hard to believe that would actually move the market up for several reasons, but that website qualifies as mainstream media. If it did it do that then the debate helped my portfolio for at least one day.

    Here I have to agree with Gerald. Markets move for their own reasons. Rarely do these have to do with marginal events like who won a debate. If Hillary had collapsed, or Trump had thrown his podium at her, THAT *might* have moved the market. Then again there’s two sides to the reaction….

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  531. 560. Not quoted from DCSCA @554- – but keeping it a secret– deceiving the American people– is unforgivable.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/27/2016 @ 1:05 pm

    Sammy. Be like the late, great Arnold Palmer: follow-through on your swing.

    If someone already doesn’t want her to be president, poor health is a plus factor. Being dishonest about it only enables people to think her health is worse than she says – even more of a plus.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  532. Donald Trump did not, but Hillary Clinton promised to appoint a special prosecutor:

    CLINTON: ….. I’m going to have a special prosecutor. We’re going to enforce the trade deals we have, and we’re going to hold people accountable.

    Special prosecutors nowadays are not independent.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  533. My prediction… the people who bite the bullet and cast – however reluctantly – their vote for Trump and against the status quo/Hillary Clinton will be bathing in a warm bath of #NeverTrumper tears come November.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  534. John Althouse Cohen said that there was bias by the moderator. While he asked both candidate eight generic questions, and some were hard for Clinton and somewere hard for Trump, he asked four questions just to Trump and one just to Hillary, and all ofthse were negative questions,at least the ones to Trump. (I think he did askan e-mail question to Hillary, prompted by soemthing Trump said. He wanted the a candidate to address things the other candidate brought up andwould ask it himself, maybe to give time.)

    And he says that the only candidate whose statements he disputed was Trump. Lester Holt did try to stop Clinton from talking (and also Trump)

    https://www.facebook.com/jaltcoh/posts/10103339705315575

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  535. 563- I guess it’s OK, but I wouldn’t…

    LBascom (c230be)

  536. 563… if these “attributes” aren’t recognized just through the course of every day behavior or personal observation, what good is it to mention them? People who are wealthy normally don’t openly talk about their wealth. Hand size doesn’t normally come up in every day interaction. People who brag about their extraordinary intellect are insecure at heart.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  537. yes, and they came back at him with the hughes loan to his brother, that’s the opening fraud clifford irving, used to pitch his phony hughes bio

    narciso (d1f714)

  538. @510 Dustin

    Driving into California it’s “Papayas Please!”

    Pinandpuller (ad5928)

  539. My prediction… the people who bite the bullet and cast – however reluctantly – their vote for Trump and against the status quo/Hillary Clinton will be bathing in a warm bath of #NeverTrumper tears come November.

    Colonel Haiku

    Well maybe. But if it’s the lamentations of the nevertrumpers you seek, you will surely have it no matter who wins. I’ll be sad to see Hillary win and simply sadder to see Trump win. Nevertrumpers are realists in a depressing reality, and their only way out is to care less about politics.

    Sammy, I think the moderator should have challenged Hillary with questions about Benghazi. Where was Obama as it unfolded. How and why was the decision to leave our people behind made? Beyond that, what should he have challenged Hillary on that he didn’t? It’s not his fault that Trump is richer with extreme scandals.

    Even though Hillary’s been in politics for a very very long time, since Watergate, she hasn’t really done that much. The 1994 healthcare reform effort, then a very meh Senate term, then Secretary of State with three main lines of criticism (Benghazi, the email deception, and our diplomatic weakness with our foes). Hillary was challenged on the latter two in the debate.

    I think Holt did a pretty good job and was barely noticeable in the debate.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  540. @540 LBascom

    FL’s concealed carry law used to be extremely strict. If your gun showed outside your clothes or even printed on the fabric you could be stopped or arrested (IIRC). IL could do something similar.

    People who are serious about obeying the law are going to do whatever they can to not display their weapons. People who are illegally carrying will probably not be so careful and will likely be doing other things to get stopped.

    Just anecdotally, I’ve heard of a lot of legal gun carriers being disarmed during a stop while the cops go and run the serial number of the gun. No RaS that the gun is stolen. So much for white privilege.

    Pinandpuller (ad5928)

  541. that’s not what he’s there for, but as with open primaries, it’s something the party won’t concern herself with,

    narciso (d1f714)

  542. The contortions Trumpkins go through. They bend over so much to suck Trump’s dick that they stick their heads up their own butts.
    nk (dbc370) — 9/27/2016 @ 12:13 pm

    — This comment is quite rude; it is also 100% correct, especially in the case of self-professed ‘conservative’ Trump supporters . . . at this point Sean Hannity could probably lick the back of his own tongue.

    Icy (1dd25d)

  543. actually I see some serious chiropractic paroxysms to ignore red queen’s dangers, just saying

    meanwhile back at the ranch

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/09/27/while-media-focused-on-debates-epa-quietly-passed-two-global-warming-regs/

    narciso (d1f714)

  544. The “professional” people who know what they are talking about seem – for the most part – to think Lester Holt missed a golden opportunity to play it down the middle. He did not.

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  545. they know nothing, or they are playing dumb, all the networks even fox to some degree are against trump, if not openly for red queen, well perhaps not animal planet,

    narciso (d1f714)

  546. It is estimated about 84 million people saw the debate on the networks that were rated (C-Span and PBS were not)

    This is with the Monday night Atlanta Falcons football game, which about 8 million people watched and a baseball game that memorilized Jose Fernandez. The football gae was the lowest rated Monday night football ever.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  547. Here’s a ridiculous thing Hillary Clinton said in he debate, where she tried to make it politically incorrect to say there were any problems in the “ghettos”

    CLINTON: Well, I’ve heard — I’ve heard Donald say this at his rallies, and it’s really unfortunate that he paints such a dire negative picture of black communities in our country.

    TRUMP: Ugh.

    CLINTON: You know, the vibrancy of the black church, the black businesses that employ so many people, the opportunities that so many families are working to provide for their kids. There’s a lot that we should be proud of and we should be supporting and lifting up.

    Sammy Finkelman (fbd892)

  548. Tim Kaine repeated this idea of including Trump saying people in black communities are living in hell as one of a litany of alleged racist sentiments held by Trump. More than once. It must be this could be a very effective political issue, especially if he actully proposed to do something about it. Including this doesn’t help make Trump out to be more of a bigot – it’s aimed at getting people not to repeat this statement.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)

  549. The point about “stop and frisk” is that in many places owning a gun is illegal for almost everyone.

    Guns are in a special 4th amendment category. The Supreme Court has rued that police have arigh to protect themselves and can check for guns. And they then can check to see if the gun was legal. And that can be the basis of aprosecution if there was some other reason to stop someone, like someone holding a marijuana cigarette.

    In Chicago, there are not any too strong consequences from being caught with anillegal gun, beyond losing the gun. In New York there is more jaol time.

    Sammy Finkelman (57e37d)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 1.5639 secs.