Patterico's Pontifications

9/10/2016

Video: Cyclist Harangues Driver

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:31 am



Via reader Jim D. comes this video of a cyclist, on a road I travel on all the time, being passed by a motorist and then taking offense:

from Robert Efthimos on Vimeo.

As I say: I drive that road often. My daughter is driving on it this morning as she goes to take the ACT. On Saturday mornings P.V. Drive East is flooded with cyclists, and she will no doubt have to contend with quite a few on her way. Notice that 1) the motorist was going 40 mph per the statement of the cyclist; 2) 40 mph is the posted speed limit; and 3) the motorist blew past the cyclist, who was driving almost in the middle of the road far below the speed limit but made no effort whatsoever to get out of the motorist’s way. This happens to me all the time as a motorist, and it drives me crazy.

The motorist was not one foot away. It’s difficult to tell for sure, but after watching it four times, I think he was three feet away, which is what the law requires. And he had to cross the double yellow line to do so. Meanwhile, the cyclist had 2-3 feet to his right that he easily could have used to move over further.

The cyclist’s position appears to be that he has no obligation to move over, and that the car had to go completely into the opposite lane to give him more room. This appears to be the attitude of many cyclists: I will go way, way below the posted speed limit, yet I will position my bike near the center of the lane and do nothing to allow you to pass. This means sometimes on curvy portions of the road, where I can’t easily pass in the opposing lane of traffic, I get stuck going 20-25 mph for a quarter of a mile or more, on a 40 mph road. I shouldn’t have to do that.

If cyclists are going nowhere near the posted speed limit, they should not act like they’re just another vehicle that owns the road. They are, in essence, an obstruction that has to be navigated around. And motorists need to make sure not to come too close to them, because a mistake could be catastrophic. This motorist might have been strictly outside the recently passed three-foot buffer zone, but that’s cutting it a little close when the cyclist has no container of steel encircling him, as the motorist has. I give cyclists more than three feet, and if I can’t, I just stay behind them. (And get irritated.)

As with many things in life, a little courtesy on both sides goes a long way.

157 Responses to “Video: Cyclist Harangues Driver”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  2. Looks like Hillary and Patterico agree on something.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-basket-of-deplorables/index.html

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  3. And not just to target Patterico but the gang of layabout “intellectual” lawyers on the site who go along with the smearing of the Voters they would had loved if they voted Ted Cruz. But since they voted Trump they are waysussss…. and irredeemable and deplorable too.

    Guns and religion by another form. Hillary Patterico Obama …. hating the Republican base with smears only a Lefty could luv.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  4. Why don’t you go post your idiotic comment on the thread where I prove that what you just said is false, rather than on this totally unrelated thread?

    Note: my post was published before your stupid comment.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  5. I’ll accept your apology there.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  6. Patterico,

    She is simply echoing what you and many on this site say. Alt-Right and all that blather.

    Be proud, you helped mainstream it in your own small way.

    Anyway, on to College Football!!!!

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  7. Apology for what?

    You have promoted the very thing Hillary was pushing last night.

    I simply congratulated you.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  8. Hillary: “x”

    Patterico: “Not x. Saying x is stupid.”

    RKS: “Looks like Patterico and Hillary agree on x!”

    Patterico: “You’re wrong. See my previous comment.”

    RKS: *Doubles down because that’s what Trumpers do*

    Patterico: *learns RKS is not just mistaken but lying*

    Patterico (bcf524)

  9. You have promoted the very thing Hillary was pushing last night.

    Your next published comment will either provide proof that I have said half of Trump supporters are racists, or apologize for saying something false.

    If your next comment does neither, it will not be published.

    And so on.

    I do not like people lying about what I have said.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  10. ugh social media attracts weirdos like bill’s herpes sores attract unwanted opportunistic infections

    there’s a lot of trashies like Colin Kaepernick out there what think every moment of every day is all about them and their feewings

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  11. i’m talking about the post

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  12. I’m a cyclist and I think the driver did absolutely nothing wrong.

    For some reason, cyclists behave like total pr1cks on the road. If that rider doesn’t like mixing it up with cars, he should find a bike path (where he can menace the pedestrians).

    ThOR (c9324e)

  13. Pro-tip: if you want to get banned, put words in my mouth I never said, and then when it’s pointed out you’re wrong, double down.

    Note: I am not banning RKS. I am requiring that he observe basic standards of decency. He may attack me, but he must do so truthfully. If he lies about what I have said, as he has done here, I will challenge him to provide proof, or apologize for saying the false thing.

    If he does neither — and let’s face it, he’s a Trumper, so he’ll do neither; we all know this — then his comments don’t get published.

    He holds the keys to moderation jail. Simple as that.

    Anyone else want to try me in a similar fashion?

    Patterico (bcf524)

  14. What generally happens in these situations is a bunch of angry doubling down in moderation. That sort of thing amuses me. Please amuse me, RKS. Don’t surprise me by providing proof or apologizing. I need my amusement.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  15. What do these comments about deplorables have to do with the post?

    Bike riders also hog the road on paths I walk down the coast. Only once have I heard a courteous “on your left” as bikes whiz by me at full speed.

    Why is it they are so self-righteous? Is cycling now some sort of virtue-signalling?

    I also agree that he was hogging the road, riding smack in the middle of the lane, and the car did nothing wrong. He was trying to pass without killing the cyclist or heading into oncoming traffic.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  16. I forget the details, it might have been a road sign for a specific area, but I thought I saw a message that bikes were entitled to the entire lane ( this was downtown Philly).

    I road a bike or walked everywhere in college and medical school, but I don’t think it is a good idea for a bicyclist to try to fit between parked cars and moving cars on a busy street, but I don’t think giving the bicyclist the entire lane and blocking traffic is a good answer.

    I did provoke a driver once when I rode into the left hand only turn lane (a safe distance in front of him.) I always thought that is what you were supposed to do, obey traffic laws like other vehicles.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  17. Yes, Patricia, it is virtue signaling,
    and if a city has one of those bike share set ups, it is a virtuous city.
    So I was once informed in no uncertain terms.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  18. If we are going to be forced to share the road with bikes, they should make bicyclists be licenced, insured, and pay a road use tax. There should also be a carbon footprint ticket if they are caught obstructing traffic with a long line of cars behind them.

    Bicyclists are a menace. Self righteous ones like this need to be banned from the road for a year.

    LBascom (7b6094)

  19. What do these comments about deplorables have to do with the post?

    I guess RKS decided his lie would be too easily seen as a lie if he were to leave his “Patterico and Hillary agree about the deplorables!!!1!” comment on the relevant post . . . where I disagree with Hillary about that exact topic.

    Easier to maintain the lie by leaving the comment on an unrelated post.

    Unless the host notices the lie and points it out. As I have done.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  20. We were driving in the car pool lane a few months ago and apparently angered two motorcycle riders when we entered the lane ahead of them. It looked safe to me but they were far over the speed limit and I guess I slowed them down although I am usually a fast driver.

    Anyway, they got in front of me and slowed down to about 50 right on my front bumper. I was tempted to inch up so that the bumper was right on their rear wheel but resisted. They kept this up for several miles. They were about 10 feet in front of me.

    It is no coincidence that motorcycles are involved in about a quarter of all freeway accidents.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  21. Interesting mob encounter

    Reminds me a bit of Troll Beldar lying last night saying that Trump went to reform school with the implication that he had done “time” of sorts.

    Later the obnoxious troll morphed this into Trump needed “reforming”.

    Particularly self serving Troll Beldar must’ve spent an hour doing research and straining credulity in a Hillaryesque attempt to “prove” what he’d said was accurate and representative of the truth.

    HA! Troll Beldar like the biker gang leader cycling with his ilk to prove the motorist was a Traffic Trumpkin.

    It depends on what the meaning of “is” is…. right Troll Beldar?

    LOL

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  22. Why do all the newly crimaleins ride their two wheelers on the wrong side of the road. Unlike runners, I honk when they reach the passenger side mirror. Idiots.

    mg (31009b)

  23. newby

    mg (31009b)

  24. Cyclists get so self righteous I hate it. I’m sorry but there is no reason they should be able to take up the entirely lane.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (dd9551)

  25. Patterico, I really don’t understand people doing that kind of weird threadjack thing. You see it everywhere. As you suggest, it’s kind of a troll move to avoid responsibility for, um, over the top statements.

    Anyway, bicyclists and motorcyclists run the gamut. Some of careful and polite, others have sprained their shoulders patting themselves on the back for being ecofriendly or rebel-cool.

    My late father, a firefighter, used to call the vehicles ridden by the latter as “donorcycles.” My brother simply reminds me that “Newton wins.”

    Cycling is great, with or without a motor attached. But it’s not safe around thousand pound and up rolling pieces of metal. And the jerks give careful and polite cyclists a bad name.

    Good luck to your daughter on the ACT!

    Simon Jester (cff76b)

  26. And Cyclists wonder why motorists can’t stand them. How many laws himself did he break in that video? I saw at least twice he crossed a solid white line, then there is the impeding traffic and blocking a crosswalk by sitting in front of the car that passed him. I love his self-righteous comment on his Vimeo page “what are the cops going to do about it?” Well buddy, I’d say they cite you a few tickets and go about their day are more pressing issues than catering to your smug attitude.

    Sean (41ed1e)

  27. You shouldn’t be driving, you warmer!

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  28. PTS says Beldar’s comments contain misinformation about Trump so now he’s calling Beldar a troll.

    Here is a link to Beldar’s comments. You be the judge.

    DRJ (15874d)

  29. Start here and keep reading.

    DRJ (15874d)

  30. I see no misinformation, PTS. I’ll allow debate, but if you’re going to accuse a valued commenter like Beldar of writing misinformation, I want chapter and verse, or an apology for your false accusation. I’m in a feisty mood this morning, so I’ll offer you the same deal I offered RKS. Back up your accusation or apologize, or remain forever in moderation.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  31. I want to be very careful not to even seem to be purging opposing viewpoints. If PTS comes up with an argument, even if it’s not necessarily credible to me, I’ll de-moderate him and allow the argument to be seen. BUT IT MUST CONTAIN SPECIFICS given his very specific accusation of dishonesty by Beldar. Generalized hand-waving won’t make it out of moderation.

    Frankly, I don’t think PTS has it in him.

    The site feels cleaner already!

    More? I’m still in that mood.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  32. These self-important, chip-on-shoulder cyclists are often a problem when one’s driving in the SF Bay Area.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. Whenever I watch a bike race I get the same feeling when watching a car race. Road Rash is exciting.

    mg (31009b)

  34. What do you call a vegan cyclist riding across the Whole Foods parking lot?

    A target.

    Anchovy (4a1728)

  35. The cyclist should have been paying attention and moved over when the car approached. It was rude, not to mention dangerous, to hog the lane when cars are following.

    That being said, based on my experience, it appears that the bike was not going “far below the speed limit,” but probably closer to 30-35mph, and the car was probably going about 50mph when he passed the rider.

    Also, the driver had to cross the double yellow line in order to pass, which, in some states, is illegal.

    tom (1e059e)

  36. Patterico, there is a huge difference between arguing “opposing points of view” on some topic, and assaults on a person for holding such views. I seem to recall you being called a quisling the other day. How does this argue for a point of view that you don’t hold? It doesn’t. It is a dodge. If an argument had been put forward that someone holding a point of view like yours was logically a quisling, then there wouldn’t have been a need for attacking you specifically. If the shoe fit, and all that. But that wasn’t the point. The point was to smear you without bothering to support the assault with facts. The word “quisling” was just another derogatory term to add a little variety in those that were getting a bit shop worn. I have no idea how many such terms exist, my brain doesn’t work like that, but I’m sure in the course of time they will be all be dredged up and used with no context or factual support if we continue down this road.

    We should be mature enough to accept the fact that even for those things we believe in passionately, those who don’t agree with us must be treated with respect. If we don’t like what they believe in, then it is appropriate to discuss those beliefs. But even with a great logical argument, realistically, we shouldn’t expect and philosophical conversions. At most we might create a bit of doubt.

    So, bottom line, please do ban these individuals. You aren’t preventing the discussion of different points of view. You will be making it possible.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  37. I live just west of Austin, and we see this kind of stuff from entitled cyclists on highways (65mph) around here all the time. Worst is when you get a gaggle of >8 cyclists who want to believe that it’s the Tour de France, and they can form a peloton that’s 3-4 abreast and take up two lanes of traffic.

    LKB (c1fa68)

  38. That being said, based on my experience, it appears that the bike was not going “far below the speed limit,” but probably closer to 30-35mph, and the car was probably going about 50mph when he passed the rider.

    That could be. I was basing my opinion on what the cyclist said.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  39. “Since I accord zero credibility to him, I give zero credibility to his promises, and that leaves me with nothing but hopes and imaginary fantasies in which he somehow metamorphosizes into something completely the opposite of the Donald Trump he’s been since his daddy had to send him to reform school.”

    A flat out lie.

    Trump attended New York Military Academy as a young man. In the 50’s and 60’s it was quite normal for kids to go to military schools, since they were considered excellent choices for discipline, academics and so forth.

    An image of Trump as a cadet

    https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+military+school&rlz=1CASMAI_enUS702US702&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=631&tbm=isch&imgil=KGIRHa607wd5zM%253A%253BRxGk142ix8SooM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fpopularmilitary.com%25252Fdonald-trump-says-going-to-military-academy-is-like-serving-in-the-military%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=KGIRHa607wd5zM%253A%252CRxGk142ix8SooM%252C_&usg=__Vb6IbN2ycPYipunTr6bpdPBV_zM%3D&dpr=1&ved=0ahUKEwj5tuzvvoXPAhVGeT4KHQfZAA8QyjcILg&ei=MVnUV7naHMby-QGHsoN4#imgrc=KGIRHa607wd5zM%3A

    Beldar is lying… if you value the truth then he should be called on it. It is obvious from his remarks he has little integrity and lied about the facts to fit his bias.

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  40. I disagree. If they want to peddle the same old diatribes, the least they can do is change up the diction. A little vocabulary building never hurts.

    “Quisling,” huh? Gotta look that one up.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  41. Let’s ban Hillary from getting the keys to the Oval Office.
    She’s an actual Quisling.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  42. “Quisling,” huh? Gotta look that one up.

    ThOR (c9324e) — 9/10/2016 @ 12:15 pm

    It comes from the name of Vidkun Quisling, the Norwegian head of state under the Nazis. It was PTS’ cutesy way of calling Patrick a traitor.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  43. A number of (but certainly not all) cyclists and motorcycle riders want to have it both ways; they want to cite the rules of the road when it suits them, but then they want to ignore their obligations to the rules of the road when they don’t feel like abiding by them.
    As has been pointed out by others, this cyclist in the video appears to have violated a few rules, yet he wants to turn around and yell about the three foot rule.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  44. 42

    She surely is a traitor in a number of ways, although she and her minions would argue there’s no proof.

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  45. BobStewartAtHome speaks for a lot of us, Patterico. I really like the way he made his point.

    Some of us may not care for the way a commenter expresses himself, or dislike a description of a politician. Annoying but part of discourse, maybe (though I suspect there is a “broken window” aspect to it).

    But when a commenter actively lies about what the owner of the blog has stated, or goes after someone as thoughtful and careful as Beldar, well, that brings value of this site down far more than any e.e. cummings on acid verbiage or reliance on very odd websites for all of their support.

    So thank you.

    Simon Jester (cff76b)

  46. It was PTS’ cutesy way of calling Patrick a traitor

    And that’s all it was. It has no place on this board. Nor would calling PTS a traitor. However, one can argue that anyone behaves as PTS did does deserve to be banned, since the issue the behavior not PTS’ beliefs.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  47. When I was in graduate school, one of my labmates came in on a Saturday steaming. I asked him what was up.

    He raged about the police. He has been bicycling to lab across campus, ran a stop sign, and got a ticket.

    I asked him what the problem was.

    He replied that there was no one in sight.

    I asked him if he would have done that in a car.

    No, he replied instantly.

    I just shook my head. I told him he needed to own his decisions. He was welcome to think a law or rule was silly, but when he knowingly broke that law or real, he had to take responsibility.

    The dude grumbled all day.

    Again, not all cyclists are like that. The ones that are make the others look bad, sadly.

    Simon Jester (cff76b)

  48. “Again, not all cyclists are like that. ”

    In the Bay Area a lot of them are. They blocked the Golden Gate Bridge last year.

    On the other hand, a friend of mine used to ride his bike to his office every day. He is a cardiologist and kind of a fitness freak. He told me he was riding one day when a car next to him opened his door to knock him down.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  49. #45 BobStewart,

    Did you happen to catch Yoda’s rant last night in the “reader poll” thread?
    See comments #256 & #258.
    In fact, PTS was called a bunch of names (as was I).
    I’m not complaining about it — insults usually roll off my back — but I’m just pointing out that nobody threw a penalty flag about it. Nor did we appeal for a flag to be thrown.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  50. The way the cyclists surrounded the car reminds me of the bikers in New York City who accosted a family in a Range Rover on the Henry Hudson Parkway. Fortunately this incident didn’t involve any contact, violence or injuries the way that one did.

    DRJ (15874d)

  51. The guy’s vimeo page also has a video entitled “Get Out of My Way.” Okay then.

    Not to get all meta/intellectual here, but more and more I’m thinking this way…the bad apples of these extreme athletic guys (and gals) dress up in uniforms, they push themselves to physical extremes, court risk and danger, and challenge anyone who gets in their way. IOW they ape the conventions of at least competitive sport and IMO the actual military. But the military exists for a national purpose. There is loyalty, patriotism and issues larger than oneself involved. And sport is inseparable from sportsmanship, winning against our peers within tradition and the rules.

    So these obnoxious people, bikers or cliff jumpers or whatever, don’t seem to be engaging in sport for love of it, or for the love of country. Absent any connection to larger values, then, their aggression becomes simply sport porn, I would call it.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  52. The bicyclists are jerks, but I think the car’s driver would do well to take a minute or two and smell the roses. The bikes were going down a decent slope as you can see from the landscaping on the houses across the road. So they were going 25 to 35 mph. I don’t know the condition of the road, but debris like gravel can be a threat to a bicyclist. Usually, the shoulder is not a good place to go fast because of the accumulation of junk. So bicyclists at speed will prefer to ride in a well traveled, well swept car lane just for safety.

    That being the case, the driver could have just relaxed a bit, and followed them at a decent distance. In this case, as we can see, it wouldn’t have cost him any time at all since he was stopped at the left turn light when the bikes arrived at the intersection.

    My point is really to put things in perspective. For most us, spending an extra 15 seconds being curtious to someone else will not change the ebb and flow of our day, and we can even laugh a bit at the their expense if we think they’re being silly. One morning going to work, we came upon a bicyclist that had been run over in a intersection and he was in bad shape. We did what we could until the ambulance came. No one would want to be responsible for something like that.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  53. @49 A Schwinn ain’t a Harley.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. Hmmmm

    Still on moderation?

    I offered proof of Beldar’s lying, but I’ll add the further argument of credibility, even if you don’t agree.

    Reform school was/is a punishment decided by a court in lieu of harsher prison confinement.
    For this to happen there would have to be a run in with the law.

    A stay in “reform school” would therefore require proof of adjudication.

    Require Beldar to show such proof. I’ve shown proof that Trump went to Military School.

    Where is Beldar’s proof of reform school?

    I think he owes ME the apology.

    What say you?

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  55. I’m not complaining about it — insults usually roll off my back — but I’m just pointing out that nobody threw a penalty flag about it. Nor did we appeal for a flag to be thrown.

    It’s your time, and if that is how you want to spend it, fine. I’d rather discuss issues than trade insults. There’s some chance I’ll learn something with the former. I really don’t care who slings the first insult. It needs to stop.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  56. CS,

    Maybe you don’t mind being called names but I mind seeing Beldar called a liar.

    DRJ (15874d)

  57. PTS,

    I have published your comments, because you made an argument, but you will refrain from calling Beldar a liar or you will be banned. Find another way to make your argument. Say his assertions are false if you like. Do not say they are knowingly false or that he is lying or anything like that.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  58. And that’s all it was. It has no place on this board. Nor would calling PTS a traitor. However, one can argue that anyone behaves as PTS did does deserve to be banned, since the issue the behavior not PTS’ beliefs.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/10/2016 @ 12:38 pm

    “Traitor” is a rather serious accusation. I personally cannot call anyone I disagree or argue with here- not even PTS- that. That’s why I feel I have to agree with you, Bob. It’s the choice of words, over and over attempting to give rise to a lie. This isn’t a political argument. It’s a smear campaign.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  59. BobStewart,

    What I’m gently getting at is that you were angry over the “Quisling” insult, yet when we point out that Yoda was calling us “Nazi bastards” and dropping the F-bomb and calling us “P.O.S.,” there seems to be not much more than a reaction of shrugging of the shoulders.

    Ironically, Quisling was merely a Nazi collaborator, whereas we were being called actual Nazis. And not just Nazis — but Nazi bastards.(LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  60. Patterico- Mild observation.

    Amusing watching the rush of aid around Beldar. Has he been coughing a lot lately, too? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  61. #57 DRJ,

    I haven’t yet read the Beldar/PTS exchanges in that thread closely enough to see what the context of “liar” pertained to, but Beldar’s always been cordial with me, and he tends to be very precise with citations and definitions, so naturally I do not support people calling him a “liar.”
    My defense of PTS pertained to when Yoda was flipping out on him with “Nazi this” and “Nazi that.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  62. CS, when I saw that Yoda had commented last night, I clicked on the link and read what he said. It was disappointing and I lost interest in the rest of the remarks. Today, Patterico seems to be trying to right his foundering ship. I’m simply lending my support for upgrading what has been a pretty awful run of insults (both ways) over the last two months.

    But I’m an old geezer, and perhaps the world has moved on. Maybe this is the shape of things to come. Certainly the current administration has been undermining almost everything that I hold dear. And Congress seems just fine with that.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  63. Military school is military school.
    Some go for the challenge and rigor
    Some go because they need a firm hand.

    One doesn’t need a legal action to go/be put in such a school as a disciplinary measure.

    Pictures? Pictures while in military school are evidence he attended, and nothing more,
    Unless it is a picture of him graduating, which shows he not only attended but graduated (at some point).

    Fwiw, P does tolerate more bs aimed at himself than others, he is more protective of friends, to his credit.

    Yes, calling Beldar a liar and a troll is extreme.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  64. Yoda was in a bad mood, he just lost one of his best friends. I think he warrants some space, he rarely, if ever, did that before.

    Language started getting worse in the mid-90’s, if not earlier. Youth would often use language in mixed company that I rarely, if ever, used in college among only guys in the dorm.

    It was Obama’s friend’s fault, Gates, when he defended gangsta rap as an art form instead of labeling it obscenity,
    At least the part about Gates I remember reading somewhere.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  65. My defense of PTS pertained to when Yoda was flipping out on him with “Nazi this” and “Nazi that.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/10/2016 @ 1:41 pm

    Fair enough. I get tired of various people- Trump included- being called or compared to “a Nazi”. I full well know who they were. I don’t think anyone here is a Nazi, either. The epithet has worn out it’s shock value, and requires a certain set of values nobody here holds, or at least keeps in check.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  66. Yoda was in a bad mood, he just lost one of his best friends. I think he warrants some space, he rarely, if ever, did that before.

    I get the bad mood. I lost my dad Thursday morn, after putting him in hospice Tuesday.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  67. Greetings:

    I’m still serving my deportation to the San Francisco Bay area and over the last handful of years three pedestrians have been killed dead by bicyclists resulting is n some criminal charges.

    The weekends are the worst when they come out in packs and droves.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  68. Sorry for your loss, Bill H.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  69. @21 Mike K

    I have heard that some bikers carry rocks or pennies to drop so that they bounce up and hit cars that are following too close.

    Pinandpuller (f55ea5)

  70. Tire to Tire, it looks like the car gave him 4 feet. Shoulder to mirror may be 3. Didn’t seem like a close pass to me.

    Dejectedhead (26df9b)

  71. Cruz Supporter

    Don’t forget that Trump voters are “quasi humans”.

    The closest I come to threadjacking is to ask if Corey Lewandowski can account for his whereabouts during this incident.

    Pinandpuller (f55ea5)

  72. is “tries to take me out” libelous given that sweetcheeks can clearly see in the video that he was in no danger at all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  73. On topic: I live in rural Central Coast Calif and we have these bicyclists every long weekend and holidays. They come in groups and ride 4-6 abreast on all the roads, even though most roads have bike lanes. Many are pushy and arrogant and will make false reports to the police when local drivers get upset that they take up the whole road, etc. Problem is, with no proof the cops will take the word of a bicyclist over a driver. Thus, car cams are a popular accessory to add to your vehicle. I’ve grown to despise bicyclists, even though in my college days I was one of them

    Angelo (3d3ad9)

  74. Bill H, I lost my father a few months ago. So you have my condolences and understanding. It’s a sad process.

    I do wish civility was more a part of our culture.

    It seems as if social media (and the insulation from direct consequences and personal identity) continues to induce people to confuse crudeness with bravery, kindness with weakness, and tactlessness with honesty.

    Simon Jester (cff76b)

  75. I’m sorry, Bill H.

    DRJ (15874d)

  76. My condolences, Bill H. Best to you and your family.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  77. On topic, re cycling:

    I’m a moderately serious cyclist, having ridden regularly for 3-1/2 years now, mostly on country roads chosen for their extremely light traffic, average ride somewhere between 30-40 miles. I and every one of the cyclists with whom I regularly ride behave responsibly in traffic, which the cyclist in this video wasn’t. My friends and I have ridden in the last several BP MS150 charity rides, 150-miles in two days from Houston to Austin, as part of riding clubs that are very nearly fanatical in their insistence on road courtesy and communication. We can and do name and shame when we see other riders misbehaving. For large rides and events, we work directly with local law enforcement authorities, and most of our events allocate a portion of our entry fees to pay overtime for volunteer law enforcement officers to do point control, directing traffic for both cyclists and motorists.

    So I don’t resent this post, despite being a cyclist, and indeed I agree that it’s a useful example and reminder, fairly presented.

    However: I hear both cyclists and motorists — whose Venn diagram circles almost completely overlap, by the way — complaining about the other constantly, usually with recent and vivid anecdotal justification, because there are indeed many incidents of cyclists abusing motorists’ rights and vice versa.

    And in fact, drivers also complain about other drivers constantly, but when they do so, they’re at least conscious of belonging to the group they’re complaining about.

    When I read someone like Patricia write that she’s been closely passed on a mixed-use trail but only one cyclist has ever warned “On your left!” while approaching, I think back to my last ride on such a trail here in Houston, in which I and every single cyclist in my group gave a warning to every single runner or group of runners we passed during an hour-and-a-half ride, usually exchanging friendly waves and smiles; so I wonder if she lives somewhere very different than I do, or if her experience is atypical, or if she’s just selectively filtering her experience to remember the incidents (which I suspect is most likely, it’s what most of us naturally do).

    The one thing which is invariable, however, is the physics: Whoever was in the right and whoever was in the wrong, in a collision at speed between a 3000-plus pound automobile and a 180-pound cyclist, the automobile always wins, and a collision that scratches the auto’s paint may kill the cyclist. Please keep that in mind. The cyclist in this video, for example, is a genuine Darwin Award candidate, but that doesn’t make it right to just kill him.

    Off topic, re decorum and truth in these comments:

    A photograph of Trump in his cadet’s uniform — like the photographs in each and every one of the media sources I liked — proves absolutely nothing. The Trumpkin shill’s quibble appears to be with my use of the phrase “reform school” to describe a military academy where misbehaving teens are sent by parents for discipline.

    In my original offhand remark — literally one phrase of a long substantive post that the Trumpkin in question otherwise entirely ignored — I did not assert that Trump had been sentenced to a juvenile detention institution. To the contrary, I specifically referenced Trump’s father sending him there. Trump’s father is not a judge; I neither said nor implied that Trump had been accused or found guilty of any crime.

    Of course, if he had been accused of anything criminal while he was under age, we’d never know. Hypothetically, if there were criminal charges against him — something more substantive, perhaps, than an eight-year-old punching his music teacher (shades of Corey Lewandowski) — that were dismissed based on his father’s agreement to send him to a military academy known for disciplinary reform, then those records would automatically have been sealed based on Donnie’s age. It would not surprise me if there were indeed some specific incident that triggered the decision to pack him off upstate for dawn “Reville” every day, because lesser incidents than that usually get bought off and covered up by rich parents, and they don’t actually go to the reform school alternative until they have no other choice. But I can’t prove any of that about Trump, and I’ve never alleged it as a fact.

    Despite offering rewards for whistleblowers who’d release Obama’s still-hidden grades, test scores, and transcripts, Trump hasn’t released anything like that about himself. But we do know that even after his relative success at NYMA, he still only attended Fordham — a second- or even third-tier school in the Bronx — until he could transfer two years later into the undergraduate business program at Penn. (No, he doesn’t have a Wharton MBA, he only has a BBA.) Contrast that to his sister the federal judge’s academics: she followed the normal path for rich kids from families like this in New York, via one of the “seven sisters,” Holyoak. My inference is that the detour through the military academy, and the stigma associated with attending it, kept Trump out of any of the Ivies. But Trump’s “enroll at the backup and transfer up later”-strategy is a very, very common one for rich parents trying to rehabilitate kids who’ve constantly been in trouble, as well as for upwardly-mobile outsiders. It’s probably how Obama got from Occidental to Columbia, in fact.

    Trump himself, of course, claims to have learned military history and strategy at NYMA. He lists this as one of his few resume credentials on military and foreign affairs, in fact. It’s on the basis of this deep and profound military wisdom that he may or may not pay attention to the 30-day plan to utterly defeat ISIS that he’s going to demand from whatever new generals he appoints. Trumpkins see him as the second coming of MacArthur, which is one of the funniest bits of black humor in this entire election.

    Anyway, to recap: The Trumpkin in question took my words, ignored the context, put a different meaning on the phrase “reform school” than I did, and then accused me of being a “liar” based on his own confused misinterpretation. But on the substantive question — was Trump sent to military academy (instead of a nice prep school, where all the rich kids who aren’t having major disciplinary problems go instead)? — the Trumpkin in question now seemingly alternates between conceding (as Trump himself does) that he was was sent there by his parents because he was disciplinary problem in need of reform (as I originally stated and have stated throughout), and accusing me of lying about that.

    I’m perfectly content to have every reader of these comments come to his own conclusion about my credibility, but I thank those (including our host) who’ve said some nice things on my behalf or in rebuttal to this Trumpkin shill’s personal accusations.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  78. Hang in there, Bill H. My dad passed Dec-2012, and I think about him every day. It’s the good memories, guidance, advice and love that remain with you forever.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  79. nobody ever questions my credibility when i sat we gotta beat that pig

    i’ve built up a lot of it over the years is why (surfeit)

    brick by brick stone by stone

    be patient Mr. Beldar

    you’ll get there

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  80. oops when i *say* we gotta beat that pig

    i had to get a new keyboard and this is a cheapie radioshacker one i’m still getting used to

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  81. it was fun to shop there right after watching Stranger Thingers

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  82. As a competitive cyclists – I will add a few points in response:

    1) First, the cyclists I ride with try to our best avoid roads with traffic, or to use roads with multiple lanes so as to not impede traffic. Our speeds are typically in the 25-30 mile range which is much faster than the typical cyclists but it still impedes traffic.

    2) contrary to conventional wisdom, it is actually much safer for a cyclist to ride in the middle of the lane instead of close to the curb. The most dangerous situation for a cyclist is having a car pass the cyclist when there is oncoming traffic. A cyclist riding close to the curb will allow the driver to attempt to pass the cycist when there is oncoming traffic – not a good idea.

    joe (debac0)

  83. 80. I think we all know the reason behind bicyclists being polite to motorists in greater Houston. In suburban Chicago it tends to be the Tour de France types who don’t usually aim for confrontation, but in the City its the more hard core anti-car cyclists causing mayhem. In a native of the South side – you learn not have a bike lying around to be stolen. That said bicycle was the primary mode of transport at u of I and Ohio state. Upon my return to chicago, I left the bike unlocked at a Target in Columbus.

    urbanleftbehind (3538cb)

  84. i like cyclists i think they’re very earnest and sweet but doing videos where you act like a buttface on someone and posting it to the sleazy websites is just tacky sjw ugly fat college girl behavior

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  85. i like failmerica’s cyclists much better than failmerica’s tatted up illiterate football trash that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  86. Condolences, Bill.
    And you as well, Yoda.

    mg (31009b)

  87. #74 –

    On topic: I live in rural Central Coast Calif and we have these bicyclists every long weekend and holidays. They come in groups and ride 4-6 abreast on all the roads, even though most roads have bike lanes.

    Angelo (3d3ad9) — 9/10/2016 @ 2:32 pm

    In many cases, unless the bike lane is at least 4 feet wide, the bike lanes will actually be more dangerous than not having a bike lane. See my comment at 83.
    This is especially true in urban settings where a car in the right lane is turning right and a cyclist is in the bike lane (to the right of the right lane) and is going straight.

    joe (debac0)

  88. Around here, bicyclists are blowing through stop signs where their paths cross busy roads. Eventually, there will be an accident as the riders blow through the stop signs into the busy road assuming that everybody else is going to yield to them. And it is going to end badly for the riders.

    I have been hit while riding and I know it is no fun, but when you insist on doing stupid, illegal stuff and not obeying traffic signs SPECIFICALLY for bikes and pedestrians, BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN!

    This rider was inconsiderate and stupid and put himself in danger by not doing the logical, safe thing. Show your footage to the cops and they will probably laugh at you. It shows the rider caused the problem.

    Stupid is as stupid does….

    WarEagle82 (5bf75f)

  89. Regarding cyclists: I have a friend who is an Emergency Room nurse and they use a little code for cyclists and especially motor cyclists who’ve been in traffic accidents.

    OD’s…. Organ Donors.

    The bicyclists are bad here in Colorado too. Nothing worse than to be on a two lane secondary high way with a guy peddling 10 mph with all his worldly possessions saddle bagged over his back fender.

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  90. 1) Condolences to Bill and Yoda. Today happens to be the fourth anniversary of my mother’s passing, so the chord it plucked in me was fairly somber.
    2) I have to deal with packs of cyclists taking up the road almost every weekend. The experience does not make me sympathetic to them.

    kishnevi (4490a8)

  91. On the other hand, a friend of mine used to ride his bike to his office every day. He is a cardiologist and kind of a fitness freak. He told me he was riding one day when a car next to him opened his door to knock him down.

    Mike K (90dfdc) — 9/10/2016 @ 12:49 pm

    How did he know that the person who opened his car door had a malicious intent?

    Most cyclists I’ve seen have shared the road with cars. There are some like this jerk and his friends make it difficult for everyone, bicyclists and automobile drivers alike. I went around a sharp corner on Mulholland and found 2 cyclists standing in the middle of the road. I got behind a group riding 4 abreast also down Mulholland who wouldn’t let anyone by. I had a bicycle rider flip me off when I was on the far side of the road and he was going the wrong way on a one way road on the wrong side. It’s cyclists like this who give the others a bad name.

    This is the message I left on the video site.

    You were being a jerk. It wasn’t wide open. You and your friends were riding in the middle of the road. It’s people like you who make other bicyclists look bad. I looked at your video and the driver gave you at least 3 feet. Traffic law says that slower traffic has to move to the right. You were in the wrong and owe the driver an apology.

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  92. condolences and prayers for bill h and yoda,

    the cyclists seem to operate under a misunderstanding, we show them courtesy, and they pretend not to be jackalopes,

    narciso (d1f714)

  93. When I worked in Santa Monica the millennial cyclists were the worst. The rode on the sidewalk and went through red lights and stop signs all the time. One cyclist knocked me down when I was walking on a sidewalk in the middle of the block. He didn’t even stop to see if I was okay. It’s bad enough to knock down a well person, but I’m disabled.

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  94. Beldar, your credibility was not in question, and I understood what you said.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  95. I think wayne barrett or david johnston, would have turned it up, meanwhile red queen, when she was first starting out, defended a rapist of a 12 year old, and laughed about it afterward,

    narciso (d1f714)

  96. As someone who is a cyclist and a driver, I have sometimes been:

    * a driver inconvenienced by a rude or unaware driver;
    * a driver who has been inconvenienced by a rude or unaware cyclist;
    * a driver who has been momentarily unaware, who has himself thereby inconvenienced another driver;
    * a driver who has been momentarily unaware, who has himself thereby inconvenienced another cyclist;
    * the mirror image of each of the above, but with me as the cyclist; and finally
    * a person who is subject to confirmation bias, meaning I pay the most attention to data points that stand out for some reason, and then I best remember those particular data points which fit the theorem I’ve been pondering lately.

    I encounter rude and unaware drivers constantly, many times per hour, when I’m driving. I see so many that I just lump them altogether in a category of faceless people I’ve muttered about. But that guy in the spandex, who I had to brake for because he wasn’t paying attention?!? All cyclists are evil!

    The first key is general situational awareness — hey, there’s a [bike/car]!

    The next key is eye contact: If you both know the other sees you, then you can presume and make instant decisions based on the optimistic assumption that neither of you is trying to get the other one killed (or annoyed or whatever).

    Otherwise, this is all just a subset of the larger category of “rules of the road,” which include both traffic laws and customs over time.

    Now I’m going to go post a nasty Yelp review of that farmer whose hay-bailer slowed me down for a good 45 seconds before I got to my red light, and then I’ll tell those kids to get off my lawn with their damned bikes.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  97. @ MD in Philly, re #94: I didn’t think otherwise of you, my friend, but thanks. 😉

    Beldar (fa637a)

  98. #69,75.76,77,79,87,90,92:

    Thanks to all of you. Just proves we fight like cats and dogs and we’re still family.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  99. Hmmm

    Still in moderation after obeying the rules?

    Didn’t call Beldar a liar or say he knowingly said falsehoods.

    Ah, well, I guess the rules are different depending on who you are.

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  100. @67. Deep condolences, Bill H.

    No matter how many years you privately prepare for that time in your mind, when it arrives, it is difficult to endure. But you will.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  101. Oh — I also remember hearing this same debate, with most of the same arguments, but it was skiers versus snowboarders.

    @ joe: If you cycle competitively, you probably do a fair amount of pace-line riding, probably with friends or a club. And at those average speeds, you and similar swift riders will very rapidly outpace someone like me and my friends, who average 16-17 on a good day. I ride a recumbent, which is slower to accelerate than a diamond-frame, so I usually ride tail-end charlie in my group. Whoever’s leading our pace line (which rotates through everyone else) habitually will shout, when approaching and overtaking slower cyclists, “Riders approaching!” And then upon drawing even, the line leader (or person just behind, if he’s straining) will say something to the cyclists they’re passing like, “On your left, first of eight.” Then when I pass, I say, “On your left, last of eight and thank you!”

    This stuff is basic to our cycling credo, and we take it pretty seriously, actually. We teach it to new cyclists and preach it to offenders.

    Is this comparable or dissimilar to your experience?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  102. @ Bill H. Condolences on your and your family’s loss. I hope your father’s passing was peaceful.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  103. Where I live, there are a lot of cyclists, and a lot of cycling clubs. Thus at any given time, there are cyclists in groups of anywhere from 4 – 15 riding in big clumps on both the busier 4-lane roads. Also, the packs ride the narrow 2-lane canyon road where there is literally no shoulder or bike lane. From knowing a number of riders, the big motivating factor in serious riding is being able to exercise outdoors in a place with an enviable year-round climate (and well as taking advantage of our optimal-hilly expanses of area in which to ride). However, in places less suburban and more inside big city limits, the attitude seems to have more to do with being environmentally aware, going green, and not leaving any carbon-footprint, which is fine, except that there seems to be a pervasive arrogance attached to that sort of thinking. They seem to feel righteously inclined to convince others about how good they (cyclists) are, and how bad the car owners are. We’re big walkers and cyclists here, to be sure, but because we’re also a quirky throwback of a community which values good manners even more, I haven’t heard of any ugly confrontations.

    Dana (995455)

  104. Mike K

    I have heard that some bikers carry rocks or pennies to drop so that they bounce up and hit cars that are following too close.

    The motorcyclists were slowing down to force me to slow down. It was bizarre and extremely dangerous for them.

    I haven’t seen that before but it was something that seemed very unwise. They eventually decided that I had been taught a lesson and roared off again well over 80 mph.

    When I ran a trauma center, we considered all motorcycles “donorcycles.” Helmet law changed that a lot.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  105. @78.Since you’ve repeatedly indicated you’re ‘not voting,’ it’s a ‘protest’ w/a hollow POV.

    Haven’t seen that much outgassing since Voyager swung past Io.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  106. Beldar,

    As one who frequently drives on the road less traveled I most always come across cyclists. While most are semi-aware, I have come across the occasional cyclist who is riding in the middle of the road and despite only honking at them when there is plenty of room to get over they refuse to let me by. You can’t say that rider was unaware. Someone said it takes 20 good deeds to make up for one bad deed.

    It’s like Prius drivers. I’m sure that there are a few good Prius drivers, but invariably when you get to the front of slow traffic you’ll find a Prius. Or like drivers who get on the freeway and in one fell swoop blocking traffic as they go, move across 4 lanes to get in the fast lane and go slower than the rest of traffic. Or how about the lady in the large SUV who decided to move into the lane I was in when I was right next to her. She flipped me off when I honked when I had nowhere to move to. Or the driver going slow refusing to use turn outs despite 11 cars following them.

    We all make mistakes, it’s how we respond to them that makes a difference. It seems like there are a lot of entitled people out there.

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  107. We should all just be happy that the Spandex Pimpernels with the Styrofoam hats let us use their roads at all.

    Dave (in MA) (b4cd2c)

  108. @ DCSCA (#104): I’ve never said, and it is not true, that I will be “not voting.”

    I’ve said, and it is true, that I will not be voting for either Clinton or Trump.

    But I will indeed be voting for someone in every race on the ballot; indeed, it will be a straight-ticket GOP ballot given where I live and the local races this year, except that I will de-select Trump and write in a someone’s name, likely Ted Cruz’. Yes, it is a “protest vote.”

    Again, I’m content for others to judge whether my point of view is or isn’t hollow. Likewise, I’m content for everyone here to judge your credibility. This latest misrepresentation is just another data point in your remarkably consistent pattern. But please stick around, every circus needs a first-rate ass-clown.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  109. Dave (in MA), I confess to being a MAMIL … “middle-age male in Lycra.” We’re not all of us pretty. 😀

    Beldar (fa637a)

  110. “Traffic planners,” who are really nothing more than social engineers and political activists got the idea that by narrowing roadways, adding “traffic furniture,” eliminating shoulders and making other anti-car modifications to our road system they could force us out of our cars. All hail the good and great gaia!

    I see those changes as completely ineffective, and they are also endangering cyclists and leading to increased car-bike conflicts. The great irony of this is that in most cities cycling is the number one green alternative to driving. What I think these regulation happy pr1cks really have in mind is forcing us into publicly owned mass transit and not really saving the planet.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  111. @107 Tedtoo is not on the ballot for president this cycle.

    But if a write-in ‘vote’ for an ideologue is your protest pleasure, go for it. But it is quite retro and out of step with the changing times. Ideologues are out. Pragmatists are in.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  112. The Beldar-PTS discussion has been enlightening. In the past, comments like Beldar’s might have led to a discussion that I would have joined, like this:

    Commenter: Beldar, why did you talk about Trump going to reform school? He went to military school and did well. He should be completed for that, not criticized.

    DRJ: I won’t speak for Beldar but from my experience, young men who attended military schools in that era fell into two groups — those whose families had a connection to that school or the military, and those who were given the chance to attend a military school in lieu of criminal law problems, i.e. who went to military school instead of reform school. Usually it was well-to-do families who had the connections and money to shield their sons that way.

    The discussion might have continued from there, such as whether Trump was one of these kids, whether his family had connections to the school or the military, whether he had problems and put them behind him (to his credit), or whether he continues to manifest the behaviors that might have sent him there.

    Instead, the discussion went like this: Reform school? Liar!

    How very Trumpian, but instead of Lyin’ Ted we get Lyin’ Beldar. It’s so much easier that way, isn’t it? Forget debate, discussion, intellectual curiosity, and learning from others and skip straight to the insults. It’s the art of the deal, according to Trump.

    DRJ (15874d)

  113. “Ideologues are out. Pragmatists are in.”

    So you’re a follower of fashion? That’s so . . . youthful! Good for you! My favorite European designers are Armani and Chanel. And yours?

    ThOR (c9324e)

  114. 111. Rahm Emanuel has pushed cycling to get rid of buses not serving the CBD. There’s some merit in that you are spending a lot of money to move people on short trips when they should be walking or side-street cycling. Remember they need enough drivers still driving to pony up for the forthcoming (only Pence could save us from) congestion fees and in-city tolls. That’s failure of everybody switched to transit.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  115. Maybe bicyclists need a saying along the lines of “You can beat the rap but you can’t beat the ride.”

    You can be right but you won’t like the ride(to the hospital).

    Pinandpuller (b82342)

  116. #101

    This stuff is basic to our cycling credo, and we take it pretty seriously, actually. We teach it to new cyclists and preach it to offenders.

    Is this comparable or dissimilar to your experience?

    Beldar (fa637a) — 9/10/2016 @ 5:28 pm

    not even close to being comparable – I WOULD NEVER RIDE A RECUMBANT!
    Surprisingly – pacelining is a strange creature – some rides there is a lot of pacelining (usually when fighting a stiff wind) then some rides virtually no pacelining.
    When passing slower riders, we will announce that we are coming by, The last rider generally doesnt say anything since he is usually fighting to hang on.
    We also try to swing out far enough – even into the next lane to give plenty of room. (though on one ride with lance, he decided to go up the middle of a group of slower riders, he spooked a couple of them who then took about 5 or 6 of our group down. he didnt bother to stop after he caused the crash (yes it was that lance)

    joe (debac0)

  117. @112- Sinclair of Saville Row fame, ‘Q’.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  118. #111- DRJ, you put trump supporters in the Hillary basket, this is why your “how very Trumpian”, for instance, puts the hollowness in your pointing fingers at lack of respect. And Beldar, in the same vein, says crap like “Trumpkins see him as the second coming of MacArthur, which is one of the funniest bits of black humor in this entire election” which is condescending, insulting, and a lie.

    Patterico is rife with such comments, such as #9, “RKS: *Doubles down because that’s what Trumpers do”, and #14, “I will challenge him to provide proof, or apologize for saying the false thing.

    If he does neither — and let’s face it, he’s a Trumper, so he’ll do neither”, are just examples of the kinda passive aggressive abuse heaped on Trump supporters non stop by the halo wearers around here

    Ya’ll need to check out the lumber in your own eyes, especially on a day when Hillary is criticized here for doing what you do all the time.

    LBascom (7b6094)

  119. @117. Indeed.

    But you’re jousting retro ideologues with present day pragmatism.

    They’ve shown they cannot lead and defiantly will not follow. And some have that so Tedtooed on their buttocks they won’t get out of the way. So the fall this Fall will be painful.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  120. Trump calls people liars, which is why I called that a Trumpian thing to do.

    However, I certainly don’t blame you for being sensitive about that aspect of his behavior. It is juvenile and bullying, and reflects poorly on Trump and everyone who emulates him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  121. @119– ‘Trump calls people liars….’

    Which is an honest, straightforward and very Noo Yawk retort. You know, like ‘you-know-who’ calling Soviet Russia an ‘Evil Empire.’ Honest and direct.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. DRJ, you miss the point, which I guess is what ALL never Trumpets do…

    LBascom (7b6094)

  123. well everyone’s entitled do their opinion, but really is this most productive avenue to pursue?

    narciso (d1f714)

  124. From what I’ve experienced a good quarter of bike enthusiasts came to the sport after a series of DUI’s. Their judgement and temperament are somewhat suspect from the get go.

    Pinandpuller (b82342)

  125. How did this thread get to a Trump topic ? I thought Patrick was unhappy with thread jacking ?

    Bye,

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  126. Also, you didn’t say that’s what Trump does, you said it was a trumping thing to do, implying that is what ALL Trump supporters do.

    Again, you would do well examining the lumber in your own eye before condemning others.

    LBascom (7b6094)

  127. Trumpian thing to do.

    LBascom (7b6094)

  128. Mr. Trump is always kind to cyclists

    he offers them the understanding they need

    he’s always very patient with them and he instilled these values in his own children

    i will be proud to call him my president

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  129. @124– Election cycle, maybe? Okay, it’s a stretch.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  130. Calling Beldar a liar is a Trumpian thing to do because Trump calls people liars. How does that have anything to do with Hillary, and how does it “put trump supporters in the Hillary basket”? I don’t understand that. Help me understand what you are saying.

    DRJ (15874d)

  131. #123

    From what I’ve experienced a good quarter of bike enthusiasts came to the sport after a series of DUI’s. Their judgement and temperament are somewhat suspect from the get go.

    Pinandpuller (b82342) — 9/10/2016 @ 6:52 pm

    FWIW – While a lot of cyclists drink, absolutely no one with any hint of alcohol is allowed to ride with us. Its way too dangerous with our group – we often hit speeds of 32-35+ (without a tailwind) with less than foot between bikes.

    joe (debac0)

  132. @124.- Back-peddling candidates, perhaps? Nah. That’s a stretch, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  133. Nor did I imply that all Trump supporters do that, but I guess most here approve of it because I’m the only person that objected.

    DRJ (15874d)

  134. Mike K,

    PTS #22 changed the topic to Trump and Beldar by bringing a discussion from another thread over here. He is a Trump supporter so you irritation should be directed at him.

    It is a shame that discussion and people who want to discuss ideas are no longer welcome here. I blame Trump for making intellectualism and conservatism dirty words.

    DRJ (15874d)

  135. 129- Try re-reading 117, I gave three other examples besides yours. If you still can’t get it I can’t help you, the problem is on your side.

    LBascom (7b6094)

  136. I reread your comment and I believe you feel I am not showing appropriate respect for Trump supporters. Isn’t it true that Trump has called people liars? How is it disrespectful to say that PTS was acting like Trump when he called Beldar a liar?

    DRJ (15874d)

  137. I suspect you were insulted by my pity for Trump the bully, and for any supporters who act like bullies. Is that right?

    DRJ (15874d)

  138. there’s two kinds of people what enjoy tasty homemade waffles

    thems what wanna beat that pig and thems what wanna do the pig all up in it

    myself i count among the former

    i’ve always been pig-averse, even as a young pikachu

    but enough about me

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  139. Picking up from comments by Beldar and Tanny about bad drivers….
    My most common annoyance on the road is the type of driver who zooms, zigs, and zags in and out of traffic to get ahead, but the only real benefit is sitting at the red light for two extra minutes. I particularly like pulling up next to such a driver in the right turn lane, waving hello, and making my turn while they wait for the light to turn green for them.

    kishnevi (4490a8)

  140. Joe

    A good policy. Drinking is best left for the end of almost any sport, even golf.

    The guys I’m talking about have baskets on the handlebars of their bikes to hold their brown paper bags. They are fit but not healthy in a Frank Gallagher kind of way.

    Pinandpuller (b82342)

  141. Even after taking MSHA training and driving a four ton truck with a 20′ whippet flag around coal mines the thought of riding a recumbent bike makes me feel like Elisabeth Shue sitting on the shower floor in Leaving Las Vegas.

    Pinandpuller (b82342)

  142. Nope, Beldar, I have hiked the mixed use trail twice now, and only one bike person had the courtesy to warn me. Also, only one other couple said hello as we passed, which is very different from our suburban trail etiquette. So, it’s just a different culture, and not a real friendly one.

    And when I’m driving a car, I get shocked and angry when all the sudden I see one cyclist pop into my view. One is almost worse than a gaggle. I feel like I just narrowly escaped killing a guy!

    Patricia (5fc097)

  143. Bill H 9/10/2016 @ 1:59 pm –

    My deepest sympathies on the passing of your father. (Mere words aren’t sufficient, I know.)

    Doo-Dah, Doo-Dah (71e08a)

  144. Also, notice that the camera has a wide angle or slightly fisheye lens. The lens makes it look as if things are closer together than they are.

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  145. I assume the law in the state says something along the lines of a “bicycle is a motor vehicle”? If so that would certainly imply that the cyclist is to obey the same traffic laws as a car. Lots of states also say that a cyclist is supposed to ride as far to the right as is “practicable”, not possible; a working definition is “as far to the right as but staying safe” (if there is no shoulder and the right half of the road is physically dangerous to ride in, don’t ride there).

    That said (and from the POV of someone who has done some road racing), cyclists can be assholes. Typically a group dynamic: enough people and they seem to do everything possible to piss off cars. Like forgetting that the car weighs more than the group.

    The 3ft rule: is it 3 ft from the centerline of the bike or 3 ft from the outermost component? That’s at least 1ft difference right there.

    Around my neck of the country, lots of farm equipment on the road at certain times of the year. Getting stuck behind one is like getting stuck behind a bicycle, but at least the farm equipment moves over when it can safely do so and lets you pass. If cyclists did that, there’d be fewer problems.

    mer (4a50ec)

  146. @ Tanny O’Haley, who wrote (#105):

    ….

    We all make mistakes, it’s how we respond to them that makes a difference. It seems like there are a lot of entitled people out there.

    Bingo.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  147. @ mer (#145): Laws governing cyclists are a crazy quilt of state traffic codes and sometimes local regulations, ordinances, and civil tort remedies. They are also in flux, as pro- and anti-cyclists lobby their respective state and local governments. This website illustrates some of the variability. You can see, for example, that a handful of states have deviated from the majority rule: most states still have “far-to-right” laws. Some states (including CA) preempt local regulation, but others (including TX & most other high-population states) permit it.

    The National Conference of State Legislatures purports to show which states have a law regarding safe passing distance from cyclists.

    So to answer your eminently reasonable question regarding measuring from the left-most edge or the center-line: I don’t know, and to get an answer you’d pretty much have to also know “Where and when are we talking about?”

    If the parameters are “now” and “California,” then the NCSL website points us to Cal Veh. Code § 21760, which is pretty new and very specific (boldface & italics mine):

    (a) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Three Feet for Safety Act.

    (b) The driver of a motor vehicle overtaking and passing a bicycle that is proceeding in the same direction on a highway shall pass in compliance with the requirements of this article applicable to overtaking and passing a vehicle, and shall do so at a safe distance that does not interfere with the safe operation of the overtaken bicycle, having due regard for the size and speed of the motor vehicle and the bicycle, traffic conditions, weather, visibility, and the surface and width of the highway.

    (c ) A driver of a motor vehicle shall not overtake or pass a bicycle proceeding in the same direction on a highway at a distance of less than three feet between any part of the motor vehicle and any part of the bicycle or its operator.

    (d) If the driver of a motor vehicle is unable to comply with subdivision (c ), due to traffic or roadway conditions, the driver shall slow to a speed that is reasonable and prudent, and may pass only when doing so would not endanger the safety of the operator of the bicycle, taking into account the size and speed of the motor vehicle and bicycle, traffic conditions, weather, visibility, and surface and width of the highway.

    (e) (1) A violation of subdivision (b), (c ), or (d) is an infraction punishable by a fine of thirty-five dollars ($35).

    (2) If a collision occurs between a motor vehicle and a bicycle causing bodily injury to the operator of the bicycle, and the driver of the motor vehicle is found to be in violation of subdivision (b), (c ), or (d), a two-hundred-twenty-dollar ($220) fine shall be imposed on that driver.

    (f) This section shall become operative on September 16, 2014.

    That’s a lot more certainty about the applicable legal standards than if the same sequence of events had occurred where I live, for instance.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  148. 23. mg (31009b) — 9/10/2016 @ 9:40 am

    Why do all the newly crimaleins ride their two wheelers on the wrong side of the road.

    That’s the way everybody was told to ride their bicycles (if they went on the road and not the sidewalk or there was no sidewalk) maybe 50 years ago. Ride against the traffic so the cars can see you. Don’t ride with the traffic..

    The cyclist’s position appears to be that he has no obligation to move over,

    He doesn’t. He won’t get a ticket for not doing it. Nor is there any such thing as a minimum speed.

    they should not act like they’re just another vehicle that owns the road.

    The law says they are. They may not be, but the law says they are.

    Of course, there may be some very practical reasons for driving in the middle of the road that way, if the bicyclist intends to proceed as fast as his vehicle will go.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/10/2016 @ 1:05 pm

    For most us, spending an extra 15 seconds being courteous to someone else will not change the ebb and flow of our day,

    The problem is, it goes against human nature. Not to be courteous, but the toleration of boredom.

    Where would you rather shop? A store that is close, but you have to stand in line, or a store that takes longer to get to and back, but you don’t have to stand in line? Most people would choose the store where you don’t have to stand in line, even if the total time spent is longer, unless the price dfferential is important.

    Where would you rather go if you had to go to the DMV? A further away location where you get out quickly, or a closer one where you wait?

    What gasoline station gets more business – the one before a red light, or the one after a red light?

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  149. Greetings:

    With all the recent safety requirements for bicycle operators, helmets, reflectors, spandex shorts, whatever happened to those divine little tinkle-bells that used to be used to alert pedestrians and suchs.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  150. Patricia (5fc097) — 9/10/2016 @ 9:09 am

    Is cycling now some sort of virtue-signalling?

    I also agree that he was hogging the road, riding smack in the middle of the lane, and the car did nothing wrong. He was trying to pass without killing the cyclist or heading into oncoming traffic.

    I guess it is virtuous, and pro-biking, for a bicyclist not to make any concessions to cars beyond what the law requires, but rather, the evil, polluting, hazardous cars, which in an ideal world would not exist, except on tracks, should make concessions to bicycles.

    And one day, in the not too distant future, all the cars will be self-driving and bicyclists and people walking will not need to pay any attention to them.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  151. Deep condolences, Bill H.

    No matter how many years you privately prepare for that time in your mind, when it arrives, it is difficult to endure. But you will.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/10/2016 @ 5:26 pm

    @ Bill H. Condolences on your and your family’s loss. I hope your father’s passing was peaceful.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 9/10/2016 @ 5:29 pm
    Bill H 9/10/2016 @ 1:59 pm –

    My deepest sympathies on the passing of your father. (Mere words aren’t sufficient, I know.)

    Doo-Dah, Doo-Dah (71e08a) — 9/10/2016 @ 10:15 pm

    Again, thanks to you all. My brother and I were fortunate in a few ways. Dad had this fairly well thought out, there’s more than enough money to cover expenses, and once he went to hospice, he went quick. We knew this was happening (dad had been in and out of hospitals for the last 8 or so months), we just weren’t sure of when until last Tuesday.

    OK- everybody- back to our regularly scheduled bickering!

    Bill H (971e5f)

  152. @beldar (#147), thanks.

    mer (7df320)

  153. Hmmm

    Still in moderation after obeying the rules?

    Didn’t call Beldar a liar or say he knowingly said falsehoods.

    Ah, well, I guess the rules are different depending on who you are.

    The downside of behaving in a way that gets you put in moderation is that, when the host is busy at work, getting you of moderation may not be his top priority.

    Don’t insult Beldar or you’ll go back in. You seem to be doing better.

    Patterico (bcf524)


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