Patterico's Pontifications

9/6/2016

Jeff Goldstein: The Alt-Right Philosophy Is At Odds with America’s Fundamental Principles

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:33 am



An excellent piece at The Federalist. I agree with virtually every word. Some excerpts to whet your appetite:

American exceptionalism, which neither Barack Obama nor Donald Trump understand or can articulate, was born of our founding. This exceptionalism is found not in its genetic makeup (after all, we fought other white Europeans for our independence) but in a collage of Enlightenment ideas our Founders pulled together to create what became our national portrait.

To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution. We need to re-embrace American exceptionalism and reject the kind of toxic identitarianism the Left uses to divide us, manage us, and place us into needy voter blocs they then collect to win elections, and through which an institutionalized progressive cancer spreads to eat away its bones.

. . . .

Vox Day claims “The Alt Right is an ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream conservative movement in the USA.” In this he lumps together all who have described themselves as conservatives and writes them off as only nominally so. Elsewhere you’ll see alt-righters refer to “Conservative Inc.,” which is shorthand for this claim. But this, too, is nonsense. Again, one is “conservative” or not based on what he believes and how he governs — and, importantly, based on the way the label is currently understood.

Simply adopting the label as it suits you doesn’t make you something you aren’t, much like calling your hamburger a carrot doesn’t make you a vegetarian. It is about a set of principles that, once they’ve become too commingled with self-serving pragmatism or “realism,” devolve into a mash of weak progressivism.

. . . .

According to Vox Day, “The Alt Right believes in victory through persistence and remaining in harmony with science, reality, cultural tradition, and the lessons of history.” Yet that same alt-right simultaneously misunderstands history, embraces tribalism, eschews American exceptionalism, and relies on the legitimate science of population genetics to draw pseudo-scientific racialist conclusions that glut the burgeoning field of white nationalist sociology.

This country was born out of clashes within the very homogeneous and unadulterated tribe he pines for.

Similarly, it speaks of a “cultural tradition” it can’t possibly define. Cultures are amalgams. To distill them down to that mythical moment of original purity is to pick a particular point in time to declare the culture the culture. It is an act of will, and a self-serving one at that. Making Vox Day’s support of a nationalism “homogeneous and unadulterated by foreign invasion and immigration” just another instance of rank tribalism — one that forgets this country was born out of clashes within the very homogeneous and unadulterated tribe he pines for.

Calling themselves anti-globalist, the alt-right defines itself against free-market capitalism. As Vox Day puts it, “The Alt Right rejects international free trade and the free movement of peoples that free trade requires. The benefits of intranational free trade is not evidence for the benefits of international free trade.” He does so shortly after declaring that the alt-right is “scientodific” — it “presumptively accepts the current conclusions of the scientific method (scientody).” Yet it rejects any evidence free trade has been a net positive for the United States in terms of living standards for citizens, wealth accumulation, and so on.

Read it all.

P.S. His avatar at the link is pretty funny.

342 Responses to “Jeff Goldstein: The Alt-Right Philosophy Is At Odds with America’s Fundamental Principles”

  1. i’m all up for a ton of navel gazing think pieces

    *after* we beat that pig

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. I’ve never seen Jeff drink a ’79 Cabernet.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  3. Isn’t a better question which better comports with reality and gives better results?

    Are America’s founding principles even sustainable?

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  4. Is Vox Day anything but a David Duke like strawman? I never heard of him/them and I wonder why we’re even talking about them. The only useful service such a movement might provide is as a convenient whipping boy for demagogues like Obama. I can see that such a movement might also be useful for the GOPe (aka Washington Generals) since they would look relatively responsible in comparison.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  5. I still haven’t figured out what a “neo-con” is,
    and now a new term,
    probably invented to be a tool in disparaging some people who other people disagree with.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  6. Here is a new label,
    “Common Sensers”
    You read things and have questions answered before you sign them.
    You don’t continue to spend money you don’t have.
    The rule of law is important, no, very important, and no one, including the president, should be so big that they are above the law.
    Speaking of the rule of law, the Constitution included a framework to change it that did not include the Supreme Court saying so. They were wrong in Dred Scott, they have been wrong in other things as well, fix it
    There are bad people in the world who will do bad things if we let them. Sometimes it takes deadly force to make bad things stop, and sometimes a little force now prevents the need for lots of force later. The wisdom of when, where, why, what, and how needs serious discussion, not John Lennon wannabes.
    Things that have been true in virtually all cultures at virtually all times, like separate bathrooms for males and females, should be discarded only with due deliberation by society, not imposed by at best a majority of 5 out of 9.
    Freedom of thought and religion is not limited to one’s private life, but includes one’s actions in all of life.

    I am a common senser.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  7. Vox Day is a leader of the alt-Right the same way every slave is Spartacus.

    Ingot (64d566)

  8. If everyone else has a racial pressure group, shouldn’t whites have one too? Even if just in self defense?

    Ingot (64d566)

  9. (And by the by, Vox Day is of English, Irish, Mexican, and Native American descent. )

    Ingot (64d566)

  10. And,
    The legislature is to make laws, not give unelected bureaucrats the power to.
    If something is too complicated for Congress to make a law about it, then it is too complicated to leave it in the hands of some unelected unknown.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  11. if Mr. Day would like to help us do a beatdown on that pig then that is scrumdillyumptious i think

    her defeat is a good cultural tradition

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  12. Goldstein’s very first sentence is not true. Vox Day does NOT claim to be a conservative.

    LBascom (a53154)

  13. MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/6/2016 @ 9:21 am

    The rule of law is important, no, very important, and no one, including the president, should be so big that they are above the law.

    Does that apply also to people smuggling in prescription medicines from Canada because of the price? Or are you talking only of when someone is not prosecuted because of who they are?

    Things that have been true in virtually all cultures at virtually all times, like separate bathrooms for males and females, should be discarded only with due deliberation by society, not imposed by at best a majority of 5 out of 9.

    In France they don’t have separate bathrooms, but they do have more privacy for individuals.

    What’s going on now in the United States with the bathrooms is:

    1) Local laws in some localities in North Carolina, mainly or maybe only in Charlotte.

    2) A state law overruling local laws.

    3) Nationwide boycott movements, joined in by the Governor of the state of New York, to punish other states for passing laws about bathrooms, just like states were punished for passing laws giving religious exemptions with regard to some kinds of discrimination against homosexuals.

    4) Federal regulation, or threatened federal regulation, in the form of guidance as to what not discriminating in education according to sex means.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  14. “The only useful service such a movement might provide is as a convenient whipping boy for demagogues like Obama. I can see that such a movement might also be useful for the GOPe (aka Washington Generals) since they would look relatively responsible in comparison.”

    You just described the pre-Trump Repubican party and platform to a T.

    The alt-right is everything the left ACTUALLY FEARS and ACTUALLY ATTACKS CONSERVATIVES AS BEING, because the alt-right calls for the forms of social organization under which the left cannot survive.

    Feminist? We support patriarchy unironically. Its thousand-year track record of success in both open and covert practice is miles ahead of anything else tried.

    Racist? We support segregation unironically. Its thousand-year track record of success in both open and covert practice is miles ahead of anything else tried.

    Fascist? We support harsh law enforcement unironically. Its thousand-year track record of success in both open and covert practice is miles ahead of anything else tried.

    Christian? Well, you should probably get the drift of the argument and the strategy by now.

    Just like ‘limited government’, it has to be reiterated here:

    THE CONSTITUTION WAS MADE FOR MAN, NOT MAN FOR THE CONSTITUTION. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE FOR THE GOVERNMENT OF DEGENERATE MAN, AND MAN MUST BE REGENERATED BY FORCES OTHER THAN THE CONSTITUTION IF HE IS TO BE ABLE TO LIVE UNDER IT. TOCQUEVILLE UNDERSTOOD THIS. YOU DO NOT, DESPITE DAILY EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. WHAT’S STOPPING YOU?

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  15. Oh, I see Bob already had the usefulness in disparaging others out there.
    I type even slower than I think.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  16. “This country was born out of clashes within the very homogeneous and unadulterated tribe he pines for.”

    The First Amendment is a rather clear indication of the complete absence of homogeneity extant at the time of its adoption. Color may indicate homogeneity in milk but humans in Virginia and Massachusetts were quite unwilling to accept the concept wrt to cultures which were homogeneous in language and little else. The alt-right fantasy of a homogeneous culture at any time in American history requires willful ignorance regarding the rationales for the establishment of the various colonies and the wide diversity of cultural practices among the various voluntary associations of people who emigrated to a wilderness in order live as they saw fit.

    The Establishment Clause within the First Amendment is a very good example of the type of political compromise required to achieve the minimum level of cohesion required to achieve the original union. There’s not much ‘my way or the highway’ involved.

    Rick Ballard (3ff5f2)

  17. Oh, so the idea is give up on being virtuous and just go totalitarian,
    just give us our version of totalitarianism,
    not yours.
    Well, that sounds like trouble.
    That there is Bill Ayers-like,
    just 25 million or so dead and everything will come out fine.

    I don’t like that plan.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  18. “The First Amendment is a rather clear indication of the complete absence of homogeneity extant at the time of its adoption. Color may indicate homogeneity in milk but humans in Virginia and Massachusetts were quite unwilling to accept the concept wrt to cultures which were homogeneous in language and little else.”

    Yes, absolutely nothing homogeneous about two cultures descended from two British classes who accepted roughly the same immigrants. Are you dense or just lying wilfully?

    “The alt-right fantasy of a homogeneous culture at any time in American history requires willful ignorance regarding the rationales for the establishment of the various colonies and the wide diversity of cultural practices among the various voluntary associations of people who emigrated to a wilderness in order live as they saw fit.”

    The Puritans and their Protestant work ethic would like to have a word with you on that one. The causes for most of the conflict in American history were economic, not religious (most anti-slavery societies were in the South when the North profited off the trade, then in the South once the cotton gin made it hyper-profitable, the general racial makeup and Christian culture was not essentially different.)

    “The Establishment Clause within the First Amendment is a very good example of the type of political compromise required to achieve the minimum level of cohesion required to achieve the original union. There’s not much ‘my way or the highway’ involved.”

    And yet once enough money, lands, and local culture and soverignty issues became established, it seemed to pop right back up irrespective of the Constitution that both sides claimed for their own, didn’t it?

    Don’t be Constitupid. There are more things in America than are dreamt of in your narrow #NeverTrump religion.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  19. “That there is Bill Ayers-like,
    just 25 million or so dead and everything will come out fine.

    I don’t like that plan.”

    You should have thought of that before you kicked the racists out of all respectable discourse.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  20. Elements of Vox Day’s commentary, along with that of some of the other alt-right writers, is in the Pat Buchanan tradition. Day is one of many voices on the alt-right; the alt-right is anything but monolithic. Given the man’s ego issues (as documented by our host), it seems unsurprising that Day wants his view to be accepted as the core of the alt-right, just as it would be unsurprising if Buchanan wanted his view to be accepted as the core of the Republican Party. Buchanan has been called a racist, too. If Buchanan frightens you, so should Vox Day. Otherwise, probably not.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  21. The Alt Right

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  22. If one concedes that the independent voter will decide the election then the victor will likely be Donald Trump.

    At this time, Trump leads Clinton with independents by 20 points.

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  23. I’d use the term “founding principles”, rather than “fundamental principles.” When I look around the current political landscape, the fundamental principles on display seem to have little in common with our founding principles. And why is it that the checks and balances written in to the founding documents seem to be failing us? How far we’ve drifted. I’m worried.

    According to Goldstein, the fix is an easy one: “To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution.” So how’s that going for us? Not so well, huh? We are a long way down this path. Will we ever get back to that fork in the road? Does Goldstein’s facile dictum help?

    We live in a world in which the Jim Crow mindset is embraced by everyone except heterosexual White males. The great cultural victory of twentieth century America was the abandonment of tribalism by Whites. We’ve seen that victory pared down as feminists/women, gays, and other White subgroups go looking for their piece of separate but equal. But “we need only reclaim the Constitution.” Yeah, that will work. It seems that there are some like Day who think a better route follows the lines of “what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.” It is, at minimum, an understandable logic.

    Don’t misunderstand, I want Goldstein to be right. I am simply unconvinced and I see where the current path is leading. To paraphrase Trotsky, “You may not be interested in re-segregation, but re-segregation is interested in you.”

    ThOR (c9324e)

  24. Everyone on the Right is called a racist now, ThOR.

    You’re a racist, I’m a racist, she’s a racist, we’re all racists, wouldn’t you like to be a racist too?

    luagha (e5bf64)

  25. i concede that the independent voter will decide the election

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  26. Nate Silver still doesn’t understand how bad it is for Clinton, because he doesn’t understand why it is bad for her, but he’s certainly right about the numbers.

    He leaves out the “Brexit Effect” where people don’t want to admit to supporting a candidate where announcing such support can get you targeted for recrimination, so, like Brexit, Trump does better in online phones than in phone polls.

    But Hillary’s campaign stinks, yes—not for the first time!

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  27. *online polls

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  28. I will fix your otherwise excellent comment, ThOR:

    The great cultural victory defeat of twentieth century America was the abandonment of tribalism by Whites.

    There! Now better.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  29. There may be a handful of vocal racists on the right these days, which is inevitable considering the proliferation of media such as YouTube, twitter, Instagram, etc available to even the most fringiest of the fringe splinter groups.

    Naturally, we conservatives embrace a merit and character based society rather than one predicated upon skin color.

    But the nutjobs on our side of the spectrum pale spectacularly to the haters on the left.
    Barack has numerous friends who’ve called for the demise of the only Jewish state on the planet.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  30. Help is always appreciated.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  31. I take issue with your “tribalism” post, Thor. Teh Fugawi tribe remains staunchly clueless to this day.

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  32. To progressives, every single person who comments here is indistinguishable from the alt-right and is described as such in the media that they dominate, from Presidential candidates on down to precinct captains, and the only “good” conservatives are dead, or accepting their electoral defeats gracefully.

    Something to think about before taking a hostile characterization at face value.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  33. In an age in which political correctness has gummed up the works of honest political discussion, we owe much to nut jobs and trolls.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  34. Hanna’s correct.

    We are the alt-right.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  35. “Yes, absolutely nothing homogeneous about two cultures descended from two British classes who accepted roughly the same immigrants.”

    The American Revolution is a decent example of the homogeneity achieved by descendants of two British classes. Some might find the Civil War a better example, others might choose the Irish Rebellion and subsequent activities in Northern Ireland as being closer to ‘home’ and more illustrative of the level of homogeneity achieved in Britain itself.

    Rick Ballard (3ff5f2)

  36. The alt right considers itself the conservative or “right” alternative to conservatives it believes are progressives. It rejects Conservative Inc and tries to replace it. That’s what alternative means.

    Thus, it is vying for a place on the spectrum where conservatism sits in the US. Which I explain in the piece. People like LBascom really should read past the first sentence, or if they do, try extra hard to understand what it is they are reading.

    As many of you here know, I believe that Constitution is viable — that it hasn’t failed, but rather we’ve failed it. I also believe the importation of alien philosophies, not the importation of humans capable of agreeing to our social compact, is the cause of our woes. Thus, the importation of Fabianism that led to progressivism along with the thinking of Gramsci, Marcuse, Said, et al., are far more culpable for our current predicament than a given DNA marker.

    It’s thru language that progressivism is transferred and institutionalized. I’ve argued for years that if we accept certain institutionalized ideas about how language works we’d end, inevitably and inextricably, with competing identity politics. Which is all about removing individual autonomy.

    And here we are.

    Jeff G (c85dd4)

  37. DNA is extremely important, Jeff.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  38. @Jeff G: I also believe the importation of alien philosophies, not the importation of humans capable of agreeing to our social compact

    On a short enough time scale there is no difference.

    If every American living in America today were replaced tomorrow by a Chinese of the same age, gender, and profession, the propositional United States would cease to exist. It would be an arbitrary border drawn around some Chinese people. The soil of the United States is not magic.

    If the transition happened over many years, a fraction of a percent per year, the propositional United States could very well continue to exist, if the social conformity were there. (Which it might not be, but that’s a different issue).

    It’s not that foreigners are genetically incapable of living in a constitutional republic, that’s not the argument and it never was, though it’s a convenient straw man for those who would prefer not to address the argument. The argument is, how many people growing up under a different system, bringing their experiences and attitudes with them, can be assimilated in a few years.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  39. This year there will be 50 million kids in school from K-12 and another 35 million college students. All 85 million of these young minds full of mush are being propagandized each year of their young lives with far left policies and ideas by employees of a democrat voting block, the teachers unions, using our money. There is never one single word taught in schools regarding American Exceptionalism because that would be racist. There is not one lesson taught about Go or religion because since the government took over the schools they can’t teach religion. There will be no lessons on the white, Christian men who founded this country again it would be racist. They will however, teach that you can become another “gender” by strength of will and nobody can call you crazy because that’s homophobia. There is not one class taught on morality, ethics or logic. Neither will they study the Founding Fathers nor the Declaration or Constitution. But they will learn how white people killed “native American” to steal their land. How whites had slaves and apparently after 150 years nobody can get past that. And how whites now don’t like immigrants because racist. They will also be taught subliminally or overtly that liberals are good and compassionate and conservatives are cheap and racist.

    Exactly where do you guys expect anybody to learn about conservatativism?

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  40. No, Gabriel Hanna. Genetics is a factor: intelligence, etc.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  41. Exactly where do you guys expect anybody to learn about conservatativism?

    Although the cultural programming/propaganda is yuge.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  42. Genetics is not a factor. That loudmouth economist who writes for the New Jerk Slimes is rather intelligent, yet is wrong about just about everything. And if intelligence were a key in your voting, you wouldn’t have piled up behind the moron Democrat Donald Trump, voting instead for an intelligent person.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  43. Genetics is not a factor.

    Presented without comment.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  44. If we have failed the Constitution, then only a civil war can return us to it.
    The alt-Right are an attempt to do that without resorting to the shooting.

    luagha (e5bf64)

  45. The alt-Right are an attempt to do that without resorting to the shooting.

    Nope.

    The alt right is an attempt to save the founding stock of America and their relatives, in and out of America. It’s about people, not ideology.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  46.  It’s about people, not ideology.

    Which is why it is like Democratic progressivism. It is about interest groups — about tribes — not ideology, let alone civilization.

    Instead of being about who has the best ideas, it’s about who has the biggest tribe.

    DRJ (15874d)

  47. There is no such thing as American Exceptionalism.
    Ask a Roman. A Greek. An Egyptian or a Briton.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  48. if the all trite helps to beat that pig then they done more to help do freedom and constitution than the butthurt pouty pouty nevertrumpies

    man they’re effing useless

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  49. It is really really hard to discuss the “alt-right” argument without running afoul of Godwin.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  50. If everyone else has a racial pressure group, shouldn’t whites have one too? Even if just in self defense?

    No. That is capitulation, and worse; setting yourself off as “The Other.” It is the trap they have laid, for the people they mark as the evil overlords to start identifying as evil overlords.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  51. Dystopia Max (76803a) — 9/6/2016 @ 9:39 am

    Really really REALLY hard.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  52. It is all a fundamental question of the nature of Man and God:
    http://mosaicmagazine.com/essay/2016/09/nationalism-and-the-future-of-western-freedom/

    MD in Philly (7412ee)

  53. I find it really funny that Trumpies still call everyone a cuckold, given Governor Pence’s marital history. They wouldn’t know irony if it rammed itself up their ass.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  54. And there is this:
    https://ricochet.com/broken-political-radar/
    Everyone does want their own facts.

    Too bad that there are no longer any Democrats like Moynihan around.

    MD in Philly (7412ee)

  55. Of course, we could actually give these folks the form of government thy want, but I doubt they would like it, since any elected eliminationist government would have the racists first into the camps.

    Wannabe totalitarians always think THEY will be on top.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  56. #54 Kevin M,

    Oh great, now you guys are trolling into the marital history of candidates you don’t like.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  57. Something to think about before taking a hostile characterization at face value.

    And so we nominate a man who enters as a walking, talking, spitting-image of the Left’s stereotype. If you HAD to create the Ugly Republican of the Left’s fevered imagination you could not do better than Donald Trump.

    Rich, racist, sexist, boorish, anti-social and crude with a thin skin, frequent rants about trivial matters. A man who is unreflective, manifestly ignorant, and gets his information from television. He is pompous, vain, self-centered to the extreme and not only does not feel your pain, he doesn’t give a crap. It’s all about him.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  58. There’s not much the Left could do by way of character assassination.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  59. “There will be no lessons on the white, Christian men who founded this country again it would be racist.”

    – Rev. Hoagie

    You don’t know what you’re talking about. There are plenty of lessons on the white, Christian men who founded this country. You would just prefer that the lessons emphasized that they were white, rather than emphasizing their ideas.

    Leviticus (088bb3)

  60. i like Mr. Trump he can take a sunrise and sprinkle it with dew

    so stick that in your sad nevertrumpie pipe and smoke it

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  61. The soil of the United States is not magic.

    Yes it is.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  62. Yellowstone, maybe.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  63. Maureen Dowd had a column a week agho about Donald Trump and the alt right which wasn’t very clear to me:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/opinion/sunday/the-alt-right-is-all-wrong.html

    But I think she was saying that it had latched on to Trump’s campaign, staging an Occupy Truump movement, and maybe that Breitbart, and Alex Jones and David Duke were part of it. Donald trump had said that “nobody even knows what it is” after Hillary Clinton had accused him of encouraging it in a speech in Reno, Nevada.

    There was a clearer accusation, or definition in a New York Times editorial today:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/06/opinion/donald-trumps-alt-right-brain.html

    This one says that the term was coined in 2008 by Richard Spencer, who was a white supremacist who runs something called the National Policy Institute.

    The New York Times said it was only one thing: immigration.

    quick scan shows that immigration is not only their most important issue, it’s pretty much their only issue.

    “Immigration is a kind of proxy war — and maybe a last stand — for White Americans, who are undergoing a painful recognition that, unless dramatic action is taken, their grandchildren will live in a country that is alien and hostile,” Mr. Spencer wrote in a National Policy Institute column.

    The editorial added that Alex Jones’ Infowars (whom maybe you thoiught was the radio commentator/conspiracy theorist) website put immigration front and center. Alex Jones, says was the source of the claim that thousands of New Jersey Muslims celebrated 9/11.

    Trump, it says:

    has enthusiastically retweeted bogus crime statistics and incendiary imagery from these websites and hired one of their biggest lights, Stephen Bannon of Breitbart News, to manage his campaign.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  64. So Kevin M says that everyone else gets to have a racial pressure group but whites? Because it’s a trap?

    I guess firearms were also a trap – didn’t work too well for countries that turned away from them.

    Nuclear weapons – those are a trap. It’s okay for your enemies to have nuclear weapons but not for you.

    luagha (e5bf64)

  65. 54. Is being cucked in its pre-Trump context a requirement to hold the governorship in Indy? (Daniels had his wife run out on him for 3 years with another guy).

    urbanleftbehind (eb592c)

  66. (Sorry, the ‘luagha’ postings above are mine – used an old browser with the wrong credentials.)

    Ingot9455 (e5bf64)

  67. I don’t understand why people from other countries come to such a bad country such as America.
    In a million years, I would never choose to move to Iran or North Korea!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  68. Home guard didn’t work out too badly.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  69. Trump gets it. I can’t help it if Sammy Finkelman doesn’t, but thinks he does.

    FYI, Alex Jones is not alt right, even if he claims to be. He’s pro supplement sales. And is correct about certain things also, but rejects core tenets of the alt right.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  70. You don’t know what you’re talking about. There are plenty of lessons on the white, Christian men who founded this country. You would just prefer that the lessons emphasized that they were white, rather than emphasizing their ideas.
    Leviticus (088bb3) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:15 pm

    It’s you who don’t know what you’re talking about. I said exactly what I meant and you’re trying to say I meant something else. You racist.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  71. @62- Magic is mere slight of hand; trickery. And hardly an endearing endorsement of dirt.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/08/sirius-sledge-patrol-dogsleds-greenland_n_1191694.htm

    Sirius Sledge Patrol, Denmark Navy Dogsled Team, Patrols Greenland Wilderness (PHOTOS)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCTw6WNx_-4

    The Sirius Patrol Denmark) Recruitment

    Steve57 (747e61)

  73. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gslYChaeVOY

    Pirate Hunt 1/6 Danish Counter-Piracy Documentary (English Subtitles)

    We could have done a lot better then the the LCS, the Little Crappy Ship. For less money.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  74. Oh, I see where Lee got that “Vox Day says the alt-right is conservative” bit. I didn’t write that. That’s something that was added by editors. It’s a bit more nuanced than that, which is addressed in the piece proper.

    Jeff G (c85dd4)

  75. The former KKK grand wizard and holocaust denier David Duke, who describes himself as advocating for European-Americans, filed to run for an open Senate seat in Louisiana just one day after the Republican National Convention.

    In an interview with Morning Edition, Duke criticized the Republicans who have recently declared that they don’t support Trump.

    “I think that those Republicans, or those so-called conservatives, they are betraying the principles of the Republican Party and certainly conservatism,” Duke said. “Donald Trump is not a racist. And the truth is in this country if you simply defend the heritage of European American people then you’re automatically a racist.

    Duke thinks we’re stupid. Trump thinks we’re stupid too. They think that words from politicians are powerful enough to erase the past.

    Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s conference questioning the Holocaust came to an end Tuesday, but not before hearing former KKK Imperial Wizard David Duke say that gas chambers were not used to kill Jews.

    “The Zionists have used the Holocaust as a weapon to deny the rights of the Palestinians and cover up the crimes of Israel,” Duke told a gathering of nearly 70 “researchers” in Tehran at Ahmadinejad’s invitation.

    “This conference has an incredible impact on Holocaust studies all over the world,” said Duke, a former state representative in Louisiana who twice ran for president.

    “The Holocaust is the device used as the pillar of Zionist imperialism, Zionist aggression, Zionist terror and Zionist murder,” Trump for president endorser Duke told The Associated Press.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  76. If every American living in America today were replaced tomorrow by a Chinese of the same age, gender, and profession, the propositional United States would cease to exist. It would be an arbitrary border drawn around some Chinese people. The soil of the United States is not magic.

    No one thinks it is, and no one believes in replacing all Americans with Chinese in a day will make the US anything more than a nominal US.

    So you’re battling straw people, whose DNA content I can’t properly speak to.

    Jeff G (c85dd4)

  77. Because, the USN would be better served.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iver_Huitfeldt-class_frigate

    Steve57 (747e61)

  78. re: David Duke

    What David Duke and others see in Donald Trump is not racism, but cruelty and indifference to otehr human beings – spiritually it is the same thing, and that’s enough for some of them, because they are not true racists, they are just haters. They want people to do bad and cruel things to other people.

    Donald Trump has not said anything against blacks, and certainly not against Jews but you do find that KKK people and anti-semites like him. That’s because he’s got the spirit of hate, and that’s what’s important to such people.

    There was a screed yesterday by a New York Times Op-ed cxolumnist about Donald Trump in which he called Donald Trump a bigot – and yet not one of the things he accused him of (pretty accurately maybe) was racism.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/05/opinion/donald-trump-does-detroit.html?_r=0

    You have proudly brandished your abrasiveness, and now you want to whine and moan about your own abrasions. Not this day. Not the next day. Not ever. You will never shake the essence of yourself. Your soul is dark, your character corrupt. You are a reprobate and a charlatan who has ridden a wave of intolerance to its crest.

    You were a chief birther against President Obama. You have maligned Mexicans and slandered Muslims. You have treated women with disdain. You have mocked the handicapped. You have displayed a staggering lack of basic knowledge about governance. You have applauded dictators. You have encouraged the assault of protesters at your rallies.

    You are a prime example of the worst of humanity. You are what happens when incuriosity meets intolerance.

    Quite accurate, but…

    I don’t see the racism here.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  79. And what this New York York Times columnist tries to call anti-black later is laughable:

    The speech was feather-light on policy, but what was there was just repackaged Republican claptrap that reinforced negative perceptions about liberalism and blackness.

    Trump said, “I believe we need a civil rights agenda of our time, one that ensures the rights to a great education and the right to live in safety and in peace and to have a really, really great job, a good-paying job, and one that you love to go to every morning.”

    Translation: I want to further weaken public education through more charters and vouchers. I want to flood your neighborhoods with more police because you can’t control yourselves. I want you to stop freeloading, get off welfare, and get a job.

    Really? This was not about welfare but about no jobs available. And he really thinks “public education” is soemthing worth preserving??

    Safety is not an matter of concern?

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  80. @Jeff G:No one thinks it is, and no one believes in replacing all Americans with Chinese in a day will make the US anything more than a nominal US.

    Excellent, common ground! So, since we agree on what happens to the US when you replace 300 million Americans with foreign-born Chinese, how high can that number be before we’ve made the US anything more than nominal? Can we get agreement there?

    I mean, clearly it’s not 299, 999, 999 million in a year, right?

    But is it a maximum of 50 million in a year, and we still have the propositional America?

    Is it 15 million a year? Can you tell me what number you think it is, and why?

    So you’re battling straw people

    Not a bit. I’m clarifying an extreme case where we all agree.

    Everyone agrees, 100% replacement in a short time results in no America. I think we all agree that 0% replacement in that same short time means America stays a how it is. Now that we agree, let’s talk about where the line might be. Do you think America can stay America if the replacement is closer to 0%, or closer to 100%, and why?

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  81. “I think that those Republicans, or those so-called conservatives, they are betraying the principles of the Republican Party and certainly conservatism . . . Donald Trump is not a racist. And the truth is in this country if you simply defend the heritage of European American people then you’re automatically a racist.”

    Any one of a number of regular commenters on this site – individuals I like and respect – could have written these words. Moreover, Klansmen have, in the past, made successful transitions to both of the major parties. Don’t you imagine that Duke would have endorsed any Republican nominee? He is a Republican, after all.

    “Duke thinks we’re stupid. Trump thinks we’re stupid too. They think that words from politicians are powerful enough to erase the past.”

    In the political realm, these are hardly distinguishing characteristics. Let’s try this: “(Boehner) thinks we’re stupid. (McConnell) thinks we’re stupid too. They think that words from politicians are powerful enough to erase the past.” Seems to fit.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  82. Article arguing that the campus left and tghe alt-right are really similar:

    http://www.the-american-interest.com/2016/09/01/the-campus-left-and-the-alt-right-are-natural-allies/

    After all, neither the alt-right nor the campus left are nationalists in the proper sense: The alt-right sees globalized ethnic groups, rather than states, as the proper unit of solidarity and cohesion. And the far-left considers it bigoted to prioritize the well-being of one’s fellow countrymen over those who live outside of arbitrarily constructed borders.

    One more example: The campus left has been arguing for years that the United States Constitution, the Western canon, and other “dead white male” materials are shot through with misogyny and white supremacy, and are largely irrelevant to the experiences of oppressed minorities. Mainstream conservatives have historically fought this tendency, arguing for the continued relevance of Western intellectual traditions despite America’s social revolutions and demographic upheavals. The approach of the alt-right is to effectively concede the issue to the campus leftists, and then some: “Yes, you’re right, our political and cultural institutions were not built to accommodate people like you.” ..

    …The PC left and the alt-right exist symbiotically with one another: Working together to exacerbate tribal loyalties, to undermine the legitimacy of the state as a political unit, to question the idea that Western institutions can really treat groups of people with equal respect—in other words, to draw out and hijack the inherent weaknesses and contradictions in the Enlightenment liberal tradition. It’s unlikely that either movement has the cultural power or breadth of appeal to succeed on its own. But taken together, they make a fearsome foe.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  83. http://destroyerhistory.org/benson-gleavesclass/index.asp?pid=43608

    …Aboard the Monssen came Lt. Col. “Chesty” Puller, his first lieutenant aide and two signalmen. Puller was then a battalion commander. He went up to the bridge and informed Capt. Smoot that Marines were to be landed behind the Japanese lines in an effort to encircle them and force a crossing of the Matanikau River. Four boats carrying Marines (about 200) came out and followed the Monssen to Point Cruz, a projection of beach about a mile west of the Matanikau. The Monssen shelled the jungle behind the beach with 5-inch gunfire, and the Marines landed without opposition and disappeared into the jungle.

    Before Puller could establish contact with the Marines ashore….

    I guess I have to explain why this is important.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  84. Perhaps a lot of people don’t think America should stay America. The left doesn’t seem all that happy with it.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  85. If the Chinese were Christians in the underground church, with values reflecting the Bible,
    the US could do a lot worse.

    Not that Western Europe or the US was ever anything like a perfect expression of Biblical teaching, but the problems of the West were from not living up to it, like allowing slavery in the first place.

    MD in Philly (7412ee)

  86. let’s just beat the pig that’s the biggest number one thing

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  87. nasty diseased stenchpig

    she’s flinging sputum everywhere

    the honorable thing to do is to beat her

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  88. If you care about the planet, you MUST vote for Hillary!!!

    When Trump throws bodies to sink in the wet concrete foundations of the buildings he’s constructing… he doesn’t give a DAMN about Gaia!!!

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  89. What’s happening today to America was described rather nicely in Thucydides. Unlike our elite today, our Founding Fathers knew the dangers of a democracy and constructed a regime that had some chance of avoiding the fatal flaws that were known so well to them. This knowledge and not DNA is the basis for American exceptionalism. What’s been said today suggests to me that Alt-Righters are nothing more than a western hemisphere revival of the Aryan myth with the one tweak that their “philosophy” is nothing except a mirror image of progressive myths. And yes, progressives were and are racists. This proclivity is innate and the Rule of Law was supposed to protect us. Instead what passes for the Rule of Law is now nothing more than grease on the progressive skids.

    DNA indeed. Read Thomas Sowell. He explains a lot these things in commonsense terms that even an Alt-Righter could understand. People must learn to be responsible for themselves if individualism as it has been practiced in America is to survive. We were a great country because of our ideas, and this was despite the entropic drift that leads to Progressive and Alt-Right myths in the absence of a strong and determined opposition.

    We are making way too much of this Alt-Right fringe.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  90. Concerning Alt Right

    I’d advise

    CTRL ALT DELETE

    More squirrel bait and shiny left wing objects

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  91. ThOR,

    You are right that Duke would have supported most republicans over the democrat, but Duke did like Trump in particular and has often explained that Trump’s nomination is a sign that the political environment is much better for him today.

    I’ll double grant you that you are right that Boehner and McConnell also think we are stupid. If you listen to Hillary she always talks down to the audience. Few politicians (though some) respect the intelligence of the electorate. But Trump’s complete flip flop strikes me as particularly insulting. The only thing is that he was right enough that he was nominated.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  92. duke duke duke let’s talk about duke baby

    let’s talk about vox baby

    let’s talk about all the ugly random fringe stuff that may be

    then we can rub the constitution in all the newly-made-moist places

    we can do this to the glory of harvardtrash ted

    to the everlasting glory of his sacky!

    it’s fetishes all the way down

    (don’t look down)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  93. I would adore hearing Mr. Goldstein share his blog experiences with Mr. Feet.

    Simon Jester (2d8959)

  94. i’m a good commenter you just a pooper

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  95. Don’t forget that the KKK is the first bastard Child of the Democrat Party.

    They still have the same ambitions to keep blacks doing their bidding.

    But they’ve wised up and today use them for the servitude of their votes.

    “I’ll have those nig*ers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.”

    Lyndon Banes Johnson

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  96. Don’t forget that the KKK is the first bastard Child of the Democrat Party.

    Was. Up to the moment the GOP nominated Trump. Just ask them who they are voting for.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  97. Another Conservative happy to keep losing battles in hope of one day winning the war.

    #boring

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  98. Many Ted Cruz Conservatives have fetishized conservatism.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  99. And the volume of false strawmen in these argument are a fire hazard.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  100. RKS, fetishized?

    Sounds like a really bizarre idea. Can you elaborate?

    I just think America is great in spite of government, not because of it. We only need government out of our way, except where government really is necessary, and then at the lowest levels possible so it’s accountable to the people. This prevents the kind of corruption we saw between Trump and Hillary for so many years, but it also is more effective in many ways.

    This is a fetish? I think you just wanted to toss out a sleazy word or something.

    Trump, a die hard, foaming at the mouth, left winger, represents no war I wish to win. But it’s not me who is fighting here. It’s Trump fighting Hillary, and it’s up to Trump to win, not up to me to save him. I’m not running for anything. I’m just one of the millions of voters who are voting against your guy, as is our right no matter how ugly you wish to be about it.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  101. I also find funny the clowns who like to argue that America was exceptional b/c its founding principles of individual rights direct from God etc yet vilify people as racist for expressing their right to be so. So funny!

    What is left of Conservatism in its Intellectual Form is quite pathetic. Ya’ll would have strung Goldwater up from a lamp post as Alt-Right.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  102. Dustin,

    Yes, fetishized. You worship an idea (Conservative Principles) for having some magical powers yet when forced to make choices between Hillary and Trump you can’t discern between the Leftist and a Populist.

    Trump will get more Conservative Idea passed than Hillary ever will and dare I say if POPULAR he might actually be able to use the bully pulpit to do things Ted Cruz, et al could never do.

    Will he be universally conservatives? No. But sufficiently more than Hillary.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  103. And by discern, discern who is best to deliver on your fetish…..

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  104. nicely said Mr. Spirit

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  105. Harry Reid, Alan Grayson, Nancy Pelosi, Barack, and Bill Ayers are probably all voting their conscience for Hillary.

    … as well as the entire editorial board of the New York Times. (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  106. Thank you!

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  107. There are some kooky people who might vote for Trump, so let’s not vote for Trump, but instead let’s vote for Hillary.
    Because there aren’t any kooky people who might be supporting Hillary!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  108. i think a few little debbies would alleviate mrs clinton’s cough

    newrouter (94f0ce)

  109. i like to think of mr trump: as the dutchman who would put his finger in the leaking dyke.

    newrouter (94f0ce)

  110. Mr. newrouter!

    nice to see you

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  111. Anyone who thinks we need a “white people first” group is unwelcome in my house, in my yard, around my family, or at any dinner table where I am eating. Furthermore, anyone who thinks we need a “white people first” group is the enemy. Not just a foe, but the enemy.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  112. Hillary needs a funeral director added to her campaign staff.

    mg (31009b)

  113. @MD in Philly: If the Chinese were Christians in the underground church, with values reflecting the Bible, the US could do a lot worse.

    Obviously. But the vast majority of Chinese, being people who grew up in China and did Chinese things and believed Chinese things, are not people with values reflecting the Bible or anything else Western. Which is fine, in China. China can be Chinese and should be Chinese if it’s what Chinese people want.

    But the same can be said of any non-Western nationality. Our immigration policy makes no attempt to distinguish between people who would be a good fit with Western institutions and people who would not be. That would be racist, according to our betters in the media.

    Jeff G didn’t have anything to say when I asked him again: how many millions of people do we admit from non-Western backgrounds, who don’t believe in what makes Western nations work, can we admit in a year before we acknowledge that they would transform America into something not American? He acknowledge 300 million would do it, but when I invited him to estimate the lower bound of that number, well he hasn’t yet.

    Gabriel Hanna (a90637)

  114. RKS, fetishized?

    .

    I really can’t believe this s***.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  115. Anyway the real point is the alt-right.

    So my question for everyone here is: how has the denunciation-and-repudiation game been working out for Republicans?

    How did repudiating Pat Buchanan and David Duke and Todd Akin and Strom Thurmond and every other figure Republicans have been called upon to denounce and repudiate work out for Republicans?

    Because once they repudiate-and-denounce it’s over right, no one ever compares them to that person again right or accuses all Republicans of believing, perhaps secretly, what the denounced-and-repudiated believes?

    Right?

    So repudiating and denouncing the alt-right–even assuming they are what they are portrayed as–that’s going to work THIS time right?

    “Stupid party” is right. Lucy and the football.

    The only winning move is not to play. Repudiate-and-denounce simply cements the original accusation, however baseless, into place. There’s only two words appropriate as a response for media figures who demand you repudiate-and-denounce: and those two words are not “repudiate” or “denounce”.

    Gabriel Hanna (a90637)

  116. Alt Right, Schmalt Right… It’s all about deflecting attention away from the Clinton Crime Family. And there’s no shortage of dupes out there who will choke down copious quantities of media bullsh!t meant to distract them. Just when one thinks they’ve had their fill, they come back for seconds and then thirds.

    They come in three classes:
    1. Knob
    2. Hoser
    3. Yohan

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  117. You know, if you’re repudiating because someone else wants you to repudiate, you’re doing it wrong. If you’re repudiating because someone else has values or positions that are evil, then you’re doing it for the right reason. And a “white people first” thinker is evil.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  118. Alt-right sounds like another term dreamed up during a cocaine binge at the Law Library at Harvard. The idea is to use another confusing term that means nothing to keep the Republicans and more importantly the conservatives guessing what they’re taking about. I don’t think I’ll be using the term. Alt-phuk them.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  119. If you actually think or care that some think you’re stupid, stop rising to the boob-bait and proving them right.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  120. “Anyone who thinks we need a “white people first” group is unwelcome in my house, in my yard, around my family, or at any dinner table where I am eating. Furthermore, anyone who thinks we need a “white people first” group is the enemy. Not just a foe, but the enemy.”

    Glad to be your enemy. You’re a man who won’t, all things being equal, put your family first, assuming you are white.

    Your race is your extended family, mental midget.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  121. @John Hitchcock:And a “white people first” thinker is evil.

    As evil as someone who proposes an economic system that’s killed 100 million people?

    What about people who put their own, non-white, ethnicity first, are they as evil as the “white people first” thinkers?

    And instead of calling on Hillary to repudiate and denounce THOSE people, who are her base, then you are doing… what?

    Gabriel Hanna (a90637)

  122. John Hitchcock… a genuine racist… knew we’d spot one sooner or later!

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  123. And a “white people first” thinker is evil.

    You’ve made yourself quite clear on this point, Mr. Hitchcock. Now does this noble philosophy extend to all racists of all races or just white racists?

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  124. You were successfully indoctrinated by cultural Marxists, John Hitchcock. Congratulations! You should feel so proud.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  125. P.S. You can put your family first, and still like and help others where appropriate.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  126. It’s the Balkanization of the USA and it is by design. Throw the goddamned hook, flounders!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  127. The 1965 Immigration Act is the Balkanization of the USA, by design. Recognizes that different groups are different and have different interests is simply reality.

    The Alt Right is a return to the 1924 Immigration Act.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  128. “How did repudiating Pat Buchanan and David Duke and Todd Akin and Strom Thurmond and every other figure Republicans have been called upon to denounce and repudiate work out for Republicans?”

    Not bad at all. There are currently 31 Republican governors, 67 of the 98 partisan state legislative chambers have Republican majorities as does the House of Representatives and the Senate and there are more Republican elective office holders today than at any time in modern history.

    It’s true there isn’t much red meat for the howlers and growlers but they really aren’t the core of the party wrt anything aside from strutting and fretting.

    Rick Ballard (3ff5f2)

  129. @Rick Ballard:It’s true there isn’t much red meat for the howlers and growlers

    Yeah, that’s why they nominated Jeb Bush this year instead of that awful Ted Cruz.

    Gabriel Hanna (a90637)

  130. I think Mr. Hitchcock has members of non-white race in his family by marriage.
    Affinity of culture and values is one thing,
    According to skin color is something else.

    I do believe I have more in common with a Chinese Christian than with a British leftist atheist.

    How that translates into immigration policy, idk.

    The problem is probably the degree to which the culture at large no longer thinks it is something that warrants a desire to come and join.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  131. Speaking of by design…

    Clinton Email Scandal:

    May 22, 2015 Memorial Day weekend
    — first batch of 296 Clinton emails released

    December 31, 2015 New Year’s Eve
    — Eighth batch of 3,079 Clinton emails released

    July 2, 2016 July 4th Weekend
    — Clinton questioned by the FBI about her email setup

    September 2, 2016 Labor Day Weekend
    — FBI documents on the investigation into Clinton’s email setup released indicate servers wiped clean, Blackberries smashed, laptops lost in the mail

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  132. According to skin color is something else.

    Race is more than skin color.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  133. My link at #53.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  134. Hoagie, you should know better than to even ask. I have denounced Sharpton, Wright, Jackson, the BM crowd as all being racist. And yes, it is evil. You even read my article “Raise Up A Child” at least once, where I wrote about teaching my daughter there is only one race.

    And Denver Guy with his “cultural Marxist indoctrination” garbage directed at me, while he proudly proclaims himself a “white people first” piece of garbage… he’s evil.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  135. @MD in Philly:I think Mr. Hitchcock has members of non-white race in his family by marriage.

    As do I. These relatives-by-marriage do put their own ethnicity first, and I don’t think it is evil for them to do so–or evil for whites but not for them.

    I do believe I have more in common with a Chinese Christian than with a British leftist atheist.

    Both are minorities in their countries, the Chinese Christian vanishingly so. If you are allowing people to immigrate, and you think Christians are a good thing, then it’s much easier to find Christians among British than among Chinese.

    Gabriel Hanna (a90637)

  136. @MD in Philly:How that translates into immigration policy, idk.

    Yeah, you know. It’s very simple: keep numbers very small, small enough that cultural assimilation has time to work and small enough that ethnic groups can’t set up ethnic spoils systems.

    Gabriel Hanna (a90637)

  137. Mr Hitchcock, remember Mr Dystopian Max called the teaching inherent in Genesis 1:27 disgusting and unchristian. We can guess what he thinks of Colossians 3:11.

    kishnevi (4cae8a)

  138. MD in Philly, I’m part Indian (feather), which is non-white. My daughter is more Indian (feather) than me. And my grandson is half black. My South American heritage may or may not be non-white. So, that non-white is by blood.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  139. Your pockets picked clean, your descendants futures mortgaged, politicians flout and live above the law and you wring your hands and rend your garments about the alt-right… Ain’t nobody got time for dat!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  140. MD in Philly, I’m part Indian (feather), which is non-white. My daughter is more Indian (feather) than me. And my grandson is half black. My South American heritage may or may not be non-white. So, that non-white is by blood.

    Then go tell Indians they can’t prioritize their people because if they do they are evil and your enemy.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  141. 140

    But that is what they’ve been trained to do… Bread and Circuses with Flaming Straw Men

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  142. I’m full-blooded Fugawi, as in “where the…?” Have we become so jaded or cynical that we’ll allow the America we’ve known and loved all our lives to be left in a smoldering ruin? Forget the squirrels… Eyes. On. The. Prize.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  143. I don’t believe the point is to leave other families in a smoldering ruin.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  144. Denver Guy,
    Not all Indians prioritize by heritage. Just like not all whites prioritize by heritage. Just like not all blacks prioritize by heritage. Just like not all Asians prioritize by heritage. Those who do, do so in violation of the Almighty’s Divine Will. That makes it evil.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  145. Haiku,
    This Primary season was the most important Primary season of the last 160 years. The results of this Primary season:
    This General election is the least important General election in 300 years.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  146. 131.I think Mr. Hitchcock has members of non-white race in his family by marriage.

    And my wife is South Korean but what has that to do with it?

    Affinity of culture and values is one thing,
    According to skin color is something else.

    You don’t think culture and values has any relation to skin color? Then you believe all cultures are equal? Our culture is equal to that of Angola? Our values the same a Yemen?

    I do believe I have more in common with a Chinese Christian than with a British leftist atheist.

    You are probably right since nobody likes Brits, leftists or atheists.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  147. Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 9/6/2016 @ 5:57 pm
    Well said. Same here.

    felipe (023cc9)

  148. 146… Not only are you wrong, John, you’ve thrown in the towel, to boot.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  149. I know culture and values has no relation to skin color.
    All cultures are most definitely not equal.

    Point one of your questions does not lead to point two of your questions. Thus, your question three and your question four are frivolous.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  150. Those who voted Trump threw the US into the garbage heap of history.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  151. “It’s a binary decision. Either you vote for the Global Socialist or you vote for the National Socialist.”

    No, I will not vote for either one.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  152. I know culture and values has no relation to skin color.

    You are wrong. Massively wrong. Groups ranging from 3 to 50 average IQ points differences do NOT produce the same cultures, technologies, etc.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  153. donald trump will win the election because debolt machines that leave no paper trail will be hacked. many states have these voting machines that leave no paper trail. this will lead to chaos and through the election to congress where each state gets one vote. trump will be elected.

    hack the vote (51bfba)

  154. Well, we’ve certainly peeled all the layers off this onion. Wouldn’t it be simpler to observe that the people who are enthusiastically imposing tyranny on this country come from many races and both sexes, just as the defenders of liberty come from many races and more than a few are female. It’s what you know that counts, and this is not predicted by race. For what its worth, my neighbors have views that range from Denver Guy to John Hitchcock, and I try to get along with all of them. I don’t count many as friends, that’s all.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  155. Those who kowtow to the powers that be at this moment in time have sold their futures to the highest bidder.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  156. We’re ALL God’s children, Denver Guy… sheesh.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  157. Denver Guy is a eugenicist. That’s not a good thing to be.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  158. Even happyfeet.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  159. 137

    All that is needed* to get rid of multiculturalism as an official doctrine and return to the approach of c 1900, with English only in the schools and making clear how important “Americanism” is to American culture.

    All my grandparents were born in the Pale of Settlement, subjects of the Autocrat of all the Russias. One came here as a child, one as an older teenager, the two as adults (actually already married in Russia). The pair who married here chose July 4 as their wedding date back in 1911. My mother had two siblings, my father three who survived to adulthood (two died in infancy). Of these 7 children, only one knew Yiddish well enough to speak it: the oldest, an aunt who was born in 1915. The other six were raised in an English speaking household, and never learned any other language. I actually knew more Yiddish than my mother.

    They were typical: that’s how things worked then. And an official policy of monoculture did not preclude a society that actually thrived on the practice of polyculturalism

    *All that is needed: yes, I realize that would be no small effort to achieve.

    kishnevi (4cae8a)

  160. Denver Guy,
    Don’t obey those traffic lights. They were invented by a non-white.
    Don’t ever get a blood transfusion. A non-white was involved in its origination. And that non-white died because he was in need of urgent care and the hospital only took whites.

    John Hitchcock (ae4062)

  161. Denver Guy is a eugenicist.

    Do you even know what the word means? Could you, for example, point to anywhere here where I’ve advocated or even mentioned eugenics?

    I’m talking about differences between groups of people brought about by evolutionary and, for that matter, cultural forces.

    Second: evolution happened. Peoples are different. You’re denying reality in an absurd and, yes, religious way.

    Your virtue signalling is self-serving. It has nothing to do with the truth.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  162. so you want to wrestle power away from a bunch of elitist snobs? take their “money” aka:> an art V conv. of the states topic: the federal debt limit can be raised above $25,000,000,000,000 by 3/4 of state legislatures approving <

    power struggles ain't fun for the losing crowd.

    newrouter (94f0ce)

  163. Don’t obey those traffic lights. They were invented by a non-white.

    You’re getting more lunatic by the second. Anyone can invent whatever they want and can. I am cool with it.

    You are losing it.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  164. I didn’t read all the comments. I am in Alaska with better things to do.

    If anyone is interested, I have some thoughts about “alt-right.”

    You might also be interested in these thoughts about the election. They are not mine but from the Claremont Review of Books.

    Mike K (71d37f)

  165. However, biology matters when it comes to what one can invent. For example, lifespan.

    A people who enter menopause at 24 and age more rapidly are not going to invent as much as one who lives long like the Japanese do—over and above any differences in their brains (which are profound).

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  166. 150. No necessary connection, is not no relation. You are a bit crippled for a lack of education.

    DNF (755a85)

  167. I think it’s time we took thought for the straw men and the terrible holocaust being perpetrated on them in these comments. Hillary laughs.

    Gabriel Hanna (a90637)

  168. this rumination is interesting, i’m perhaps the only latino on this board, like sisyphus pushing a rock up a cliff,

    https://twitter.com/ChuckRossDC/status/773280500966232064

    narciso (d1f714)

  169. I didn’t read all the comments. I am in Alaska with better things to do.

    If anyone is interested, I have some thoughts about “alt-right.”

    You might also be interested in these thoughts about the election. They are not mine but from the Claremont Review of Books.

    Mike K,

    The links are the same. They are both to the Claremont piece. I would like to read your thoughts.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  170. Mike K., please check your first link.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  171. Patterico

    As a quisling in Alaska, look hard enough and you may be able to see Russia.

    Why would we want to read anything that justifies treason?

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  172. “To reclaim our birthright, we need only reclaim the Constitution. ”

    What a deplorable understatement of the road to be traveled. Constitutional conservatives will be long dead to a man before liberty again takes root and as Jefferson said the tree will be watered with the blood of very many patriots.

    We are well and thoroughly hosed and lightweights like Goldstein only adumbrate the process.

    DNF (755a85)

  173. the problem with thucydides, is he is not an impartial source of the pelopenessian war, as kagan pointed out in his one of a kind story, he was a military man allied to the pericles factions in athens, and they were like kennedy in southeast asia, they entered an engagement they had little understanding about,

    narciso (d1f714)

  174. I think your first link is wrong, Mike K.

    Actually, the underground Christian church is thriving in China. Persecution is not fun, but it does tend to make one own what they say they believe.

    Outlawing of expression of Christian faith in the U.S. will actually be good for the Church,
    it is the rest of society that will ultimately suffer the most.

    Belief and conviction about the fundamentals of human existence is what is important, not genetics.
    That some people of a certain genetics embraced the Judeo-Christian world view historically before others is I think more happenstance and culture rather than genetics.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  175. that’s unhelpful, I understand some of the counselor’s concerns, as I pointed out, I didn’t vote for the nominee, but it nearing time for the rotund contralto to announce,

    http://observer.com/2016/09/emailgate-and-the-mystery-of-the-missing-gamma/#.V89QRoul270.twitter

    oddly evidence doesn’t faze the #willing for hillary,

    narciso (d1f714)

  176. The hillarybots, quislings, and those of the “hive” mind are only fed propaganda and therefore are suspicious of actual facts, since they have no concept of this in their world.

    Information is either effective or not in advancing the cause, and the “factual reality” of it does not matter since ALL information is perception.

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  177. one does wonder, those of us who believe are almost guaranteed persecution, till the blessed event comes to pass, and clearly the rapture will be as public event as possible,

    narciso (d1f714)

  178. I think on that day the gaping, flaming maw of Hell will open and suck down liberals

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  179. @210 newrouter

    More like Huma, and she’s not Dutch.

    Pinandpuller (1050de)

  180. I have lost track of what is happening here,
    Are we being punked?
    People arguing for race based tribal loyalty???
    Yes, nation rising against nation, but let the Obamas, black panthers, Farrakhan, and Hitler and such play those cards.

    The father of lies is enjoying this.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  181. The point of referencing Thucydides is that the Athenian democracy had a few moments of glory under Pericles, but after his death the next round of demagogues had neither his judgment nor his ability to convince the mob to do the right thing. Any number of foolish adventures were pursued by Athens, and each ended badly, as in everyone killed. You are free to question the messenger, but do go the trouble to learn from the message. The war with Syracuse was a disaster whether we learn of it from notes made by the janitor in the Parthenon, or from someone else. The failure of the French Revolution was just one more example of the need to impose some structure and internal friction on the mob. Our Founding Fathers, and pretty much everyone else who was considered an educated person at that time, had the opportunity to read these works and learn from them. And DG is dreaming. We have not evolved significantly in the 2400 years since Thucydides, so the knowledge of human frailty and folly described is just as useful in learning about human nature as any recent history. And it is much more useful than the therapeutic myths bought and paid for by our taxes in the form of “social science” studies in our universities that drive our progressive utopians.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  182. Are we being punked?
    People arguing for race based tribal loyalty???

    No, it’s the future, man. Also the past.

    And the present. I mean, look at Jews. You can’t even travel to Israel and marry a Jew there. Etc. God’s chosen people and all.

    And I’m not knocking them for it as such. I’m just saying that this is, and has long been, a huge part of human nature, expressed or inexpressed. The fact that radical cultural Marxists such as Franz Boas and Ashley Montagu took ahold of academia and culture and indoctrinated you into believing fatuous nonsense does not mean everyone was going to believe this nonsense forever.

    Particularly when it is leading whites to self-destruct. Not everyone is into the self-destruction of our ancestors’ blood lines, those ancestors who built an amazing civilization, series of technologies, and even legal and ethical systems.

    What do you think is happening in Europe now? The old right is rising, here called the alt right.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  183. ah david duke, is a punk conman who fancied himself the next dc stevenson, the mindwestern clan leader in the 20s, he glommed on to a few issues like affirmative action, busing, welfare all the limousine liberal semaphores, he’s been chased out of at least one continent, europe, and even the sepah find him a burden,

    narciso (d1f714)

  184. Much of what David Duke pushed for was later adopted as mainstream planks in the Republican platform.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  185. it nearing time for the rotund contralto to announce
    Actually, most operas that end with the lady singing show the soprano in a mad scene or death scene.

    Like Brunhilde riding her horse into Siegfried’s funeral pyre at the end of Gotterdammerung
    Or the mad scene in Lucia di Lammermoor, where the heroine both goes insane and dies, although that’s not the end of the opera, since the last scene is devoted to the tenor committing suicide.

    I will leave it to others to determine how relevant Gotterdammerung is to current affairs.

    kishnevi (4cae8a)

  186. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5JCrSXkJY

    Judeo-Christian culture, yes, to live and die for, but not to kill for
    White European supremacy nonsense,
    Just that, nonsense and garbage

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  187. Duke should do for descendants of northeast Asians (Japan, Korea, China) what he did for white Catholics in 1974. That would be a game changer; the infamous Dylan Roof proferred this idea. And you’re not as lonely as you think, Narciso.

    urbanleftbehind (857e0e)

  188. the good reverend puts his finger on the crux of the matter, it isn’t possible to teach western civilization in the template of constructivism, which the medicis foisted on us, through no child left behind, hence class and race and gender perspectives fill the gap, consider that the pied piper of ‘some lives matter’ is a school administrator,

    narciso (d1f714)

  189. White European supremacy nonsense

    What does supremacy have to do with differences, man of religion not science?

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  190. You can’t even travel to Israel and marry a Jew there.

    Israel is actually a good example of what happens when church and state are not kept apart.

    kishnevi (4cae8a)

  191. Put on your thinking cap for a second, doctor (dust it off).

    A person claims men and women are not the same. Next, you say that person is (must be) a supremacist. Now, tell me what kind?

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  192. @ 53- That is a fantastic article. I highly recommend everyone read it, even though it’s quite long.

    LBascom (09d352)

  193. I was paraphrasing, herein lies the problem, if all that is offered is transnational progressive that accomodates salafism, then the backlash will be that much stronger,

    narciso (d1f714)

  194. 165. Having only scanned it I agree with your first link and found nothing with which to object outright.

    178. I missed the salience of this response to that link. Yes there are 200 Million believers in China but the vast majority have no access to the NT let alone Christendom.

    The Spirit is moving is what we may say.

    DNF (755a85)

  195. which is a tragic reality, the satellite churches from my former berg, in the celestial kingdom, and in pharoah’s land are indeed vibrant,

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/in-tajikistan-u-s-trained-commander-turns-to-islamic-state-1451870368

    the same cannot be said in the former soviet states, whether tajikistan or kyrgistan,

    narciso (d1f714)

  196. 190. A century and a half of often Lutheran scholarship is worth killing for, if you ask me. Start with Rawlinson and end with Aland and I’ll gladly part company, Doc.

    DNF (ffe548)

  197. Exactly, narciso,
    What I have said for some time,
    If appropriate and measured responses to threats are not put in place,
    Eventually an overreaction follows.
    I don’t know who is foolish enough to not see this,
    and who is betting on it,
    figuring they will strike in the midst of the chaos.
    About as crazy as Charlie Manson,
    that is.

    Is “Denver Guy” a handle for someone who has been banned???

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  198. the reality is alt right is more a pose, a fighting stance against the stultifying mind arson, so a gay tech scribe would be among the first to sound the alarm, as would a resident in scandinavia who noticed the similar scam,

    narciso (d1f714)

  199. DNF-
    Kill to impose in aggression,
    or willing to die to defend?

    And I wouldn’t do it for Luther or Wesley or Wycliffe or Calvin or the Pope.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  200. so it’s not so surprising that wehner and kristol and boot, who totally misread the climate abroad six years ago, fail to ascertain the temperature now, in this country,

    narciso (d1f714)

  201. I’m more familiar with my episcopalian friends say about their faith (henry tudor would have stayed on hunting parties, if he knew what would come to pass) same for wesley, and wycliffe,
    how much substance is still in lutheranism now a days

    narciso (d1f714)

  202. Somebody must have gotten to the U.S. water supply or something.

    The problem is simple
    The answer is simple

    As a culture we have thrown out God,
    And thinking we are wise and can create utopia,
    We became fools.

    Time to wake up and repent,
    But they will not hear of it,
    No,
    They are wrong in how they want to perfect the world,
    Perfect the world my way instead.

    I called, but you would not answer…

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  203. 203, 205. Please, “scholarship”. what you know of the kerygma of faith, did not spring from your minds fully formed. Catholic scholarship, even that of the Jesuits has been very weak beer, but if that heritage we gained from Rawlinson thru Kurt Aland were in jeopardy then killing would be just. The history cannot be recreated, the evidence is being destroyed, we are unable to teach another generation without the books generated during that period.

    DNF (755a85)

  204. yes, that is the most obvious answer, but putting the djinn in the bottle is a trickier thing, this is even more readily true across the pond, if there is no acceptable british or french cultural identity, that what holds a nation together,

    narciso (d1f714)

  205. In other news, Mark Levin awakens to reality, and returns to his senses.
    Good, Mark. Good.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/294735-radio-host-levin-reverses-course-im-gonna-vote-for-donald

    School Marm (f96753)

  206. which is why, one must go back to the original texts, ‘there is nothing new on heaven and earth, in your philosophy, horatio,’ what passes for popular scholarship like candida moss of notre dame, ‘sound and fury signifying nothing told by an idiot,’

    narciso (d1f714)

  207. taylor caldwell points out how saul, the most resolute propagator of the faith, had agitated every faction at one time or other, sadduccees, his own pharisees, gentiles and everyone in between,

    narciso (d1f714)

  208. Great article by Jeff.

    If it weren’t for the internet, the situation in the country would be truly hopeless. There is simply no outlet other than the internet for thoughtful discussion of conservative ideas.

    I do admire people like Jeff G. and our host here for sticking it out all these many years.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  209. the great upheaval, a tome I highly recommend shows the three paths that were taken by three contemporary powers, the colonies adopted locke and montesquieu, and they prevailed, the bourbon’s subjects, drank of the ale of rousseau and apres le deluge, came the terror and bonapartism, catherine chose to prevent any enlightenment, as saw the consequences in a century and half,

    narciso (d1f714)

  210. The Scriptures say that the best apologetic is a fellowship of changed lives.
    There were real Christians around before Luther or Calvin.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  211. 210. And that is the fulcrum. Tens of millions of Chinese believers have neither read from the NT nor had it read to them.

    Many of the stories passed by word of mouth have no clear scriptural origin.

    If you are telling me that this learning is “white, European culture” and does not need to be defended then I have no part in you.

    DNF (755a85)

  212. of course there were, I think one of the larger problems, was beginning with constantine and trending into the middle ages, the Church took up the place of State, in Europe, with all that entailed,

    narciso (d1f714)

  213. this last piece did not incorporate the clarement column,

    http://abriefhistory.org/?p=6185#more-6185

    narciso (d1f714)

  214. I have no idea what you are talking about, DNF.

    Of course the availability of the Scriptures in the language of the people is crucial.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  215. clearly they don’t lack the Word,

    narciso (d1f714)

  216. i’ve some literature in translation, one interesting example was bely’s petersburg, about czarism at the edge of their close call in 1905, when the anarchist, the sr’s were laying siege, and they had little defense,

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3777080/Hillary-Clinton-says-dinner-Vladimir-Putin-Donald-Trump-quirky-orange-rolling-game-press.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    narciso (d1f714)

  217. the recommender makes me very dubious he would be anything but a scourge to the judiciary,

    http://www.weaselzippers.us/293682-obama-names-first-muslim-to-federal-bench/

    narciso (d1f714)

  218. https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/bqtt1IEGiI2BCC3XwckPwA–/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NDAwO3E9OTU7dz0zMDkle-/https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/8c/a2/8e/8ca28e6f761a11b758c47628aba04ee3.jpg

    I know how to make the cuts right to left, and left to right, and down.

    I’m not particularly strong on the cross cut. Also, it’s not shown, but there’s an uppercut. Which is vicious.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  219. Yes, let’s focus on something else, Forget what is coming down the tracks to crush us. Well we can sit on our hands and then feel justified for Trump losing because we didn’t vote against him, and the fault all lies with the ignorant tribal rubes who just can’t grasp the meaning of freedom guaranteed by the constitution. Forget the fact that Trump won the nomination. Forget the fact that we have already lost many freedoms while the Obama/Bush administrations have been in office We are so pure that we could not sully ourselves to back him. Trump will lead us to perdition. And of course we can recover our constitutional freedoms by electing Hillary. Huh?
    For an opposite viewpoint from the many comments that are here:

    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/09/nevertrumps_and_the_end_of_america_as_we_know_it.html

    aProvider (83f3a2)

  220. I own a Cutlass. Not the Oldsmobile kind, although that is not to be despised. And you know what? I could round up a cavalry horse.

    http://edwinpriceramsey.com/

    Which wouldn’t shame him.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  221. “CHARGE!” Philippine Scouts and the Last Horse Cavalry Charge of the U.S. Army

    http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/%E2%80%9Ccharge%E2%80%9D-philippine-scouts-and-the-last-horse-cavalry-charge-of-the-u-s-army/

    Because.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  222. R.I.P. Jack Riley, played “Mr. Carlin” on The Bob Newhart show

    Icy (1dd25d)

  223. “What David Duke and others see in Donald Trump is not racism, but cruelty and indifference to otehr human beings – spiritually it is the same thing, and that’s enough for some of them, because they are not true racists, they are just haters. They want people to do bad and cruel things to other people.”

    “Donald Trump has not said anything against blacks, and certainly not against Jews but you do find that KKK people and anti-semites like him. That’s because he’s got the spirit of hate, and that’s what’s important to such people.”

    Sammy Finkelman wrote these words and I’ve been thinking about them all day. One of the many reasons I keep coming back to Patterico is because of insights like these. Thank you Sammy!

    ThOR (c9324e)

  224. John Hitchcock- May I suggest a seconal drip.

    mg (31009b)

  225. Sammy Finkelman has written abject nonsense. I would hate to be inside his mind.

    Denver Guy (4750ec)

  226. When does the republican led congress start the trials on these hacks? The evidence is all over the place. The FBI needs to be aborted.
    Crickets from team republican and the constitutionalist toddlers.

    mg (31009b)

  227. if you mix the blue constitution all up in the yellow constitution it makes green then you can make a hoppyfrog and a racecar (green racecar)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  228. The thing about your establishment conservative principles is that the stabbies will almost never come out and admit those principles. Their main economic principle is to destroy the middle-class and globally equalize wages with an elite class of utilizers above them. It’s exactly the same as the Obama-Democrats’ guiding economic principle as well as the Trotskyites.

    The only difference between them is that they have drastically different ideas regarding who should be the elite overseers in the equalized one world. And once equalization has occurred, the Republicans would be inclined to let a world-citizen earn what he can on the world market whereas the Democrats

    Jcurtis (510410)

  229. …whereas the Democrats and other forms of communists require equal outcomes. But the current focus is to get to the one-world market.

    Admit it, stabbies.

    Jcurtis (510410)

  230. There is only one aspect of slavery that would be a sticking point with today’s Republican establishment and that is the capturing and making them work against their will under the threat of a whip.

    There were many other aspects of slavery that the original Republicans were opposed to. For instance, if I can bring a million willing poverty-stricken laborers to the US to work on my 200 acre work compound for room and board, “room and board” will be the going-wage in the region immediately. The establishment Republican cannot communicate a principled opposition against this scenario. Any opposition to this plan would be anti free market.

    Jcurtis (510410)

  231. well the republican party was founded on free labor, that’s why they were opposed to slavery and unionism,

    narciso (d1f714)

  232. Dustin,

    Yes, fetishized. You worship an idea (Conservative Principles) for having some magical powers yet when forced to make choices between Hillary and Trump you can’t discern between the Leftist and a Populist.

    Trump will get more Conservative Idea passed than Hillary ever will and dare I say if POPULAR he might actually be able to use the bully pulpit to do things Ted Cruz, et al could never do.

    Will he be universally conservatives? No. But sufficiently more than Hillary.

    Rodney King’s Spirit

    I think this answer only makes you come across as even more confused.

    So your argument is that Trump is more conservative than Hillary, and I love conservatism so much that I do not support this clearly more conservative candidate.

    And you figured this out not by reading what I actually say, but by reading my mind.

    Because what I actually say, and provide a ton of evidence for, is that Trump is the most leftist candidate in the race. He’s the guy who tried to get the votes of socialists. He’s saying 9/11 is Bush’s fault, Bush is the worst president in American history, and Trump is disappointed in supporting Pelosi when she doesn’t impeach Bush. Then Trump says how hillary will make a great president, how Planned Parenthood is wonderful, how he supports extending waiting periods for buying guns and ban some guns, he’s paying fines for employing illegals, and he loves the communist dictator of North Korea. Trump is a con man, and I do not buy the bridge he is selling that he’s going to anything I want. His convention speech was a list of huge government programs he wants.

    You suggest I have an irrational worship of conservatism because I explain why I agree with limited government. Simply because in your head, anyone who doesn’t support Trump must be crazy. You are unwilling to consider the possibility that there is a valid opinion other than your own. Everyone who differs with you is just crazy. That’s not a sign of a strong mind.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  233. lifeydoodles say planned parenthood is terrible

    then they wanna do partial birth stinkypig judges all up in the supreme court!

    it’s cause of they’re so principled is why

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  234. There were many other aspects of slavery that the

    original Republicans were opposed to. For instance, if I can bring a million willing poverty-stricken laborers to the US to work on my 200 acre work compound for room and board, “room and board” will be the going-wage in the region immediately. The establishment Republican cannot communicate a principled opposition against this scenario. Any opposition to this plan would be anti free market.

    Jcurtis

    I don’t think you understand what slavery is. If someone agrees to work for room and board, that’s not slavery. If a person is no longer considered a person and becomes property of another, that’s slavery. Hell, if a person agrees to work for nothing, he’s an intern, not a slave. If a person agrees to work and pay his boss, he’s a student, not a slave.

    If slave owners were resurrected and got to vote, I bet they would vote 99%+ for Trump and make all kinds of ridiculous explanations of how what they are doing is just like something else that completely misses the point. “Hey, Cletus owns a John Deere Combine, how is that different from slavery, hyuk hyuk?”

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  235. My new term for some folks here is Fetish Conservatives

    No doubt Conservative but incapable to getting any momentum behind issues much like a man looking for the perfect women ends up alone and vice versa. They toss out possible mates cuz they wear brown shoes or something and we all know CONSERVATIVES DON’T WEAR BROWN SHOES!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Even Mark Levin gave up. Wonder when the crazy Mormons wake up …

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  236. OT: Still waiting for West Africans to offer reparations to their fellow DNA ancestors African Americans for selling them to the white devil. Or for that matter for African Muslim to pay Southern Europeans for their slave raids which netted them some 10 million souls.

    … and waiting

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  237. lifeydoodles say planned parenthood is terrible

    then they wanna do partial birth stinkypig judges all up in the supreme court!

    it’s cause of they’re so principled is why

    happyfeet

    No, I think Hillary’s judges will be bad.

    Unfortunately, Trump praised Maryanne Barry, a partial birth abortion supporting extremist, as a “phenomenal” choice for the Supreme Court, and there’s no question Trump’s picks would be influenced by Barry. So you’re just wrong.

    Happyfeet, you’ve mentioned abortion as the biggest issue in this election. You mention abortion in almost every thread where Trump is discussed as a huge reason ‘lifeydoodles’ should support Trump. But you are not a ‘lifeydoodle’ and apparently think we are nuts worthy of ridicule. Why should we follow your advice if you are so clearly opposed to our interests?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  238. I remember Reagan when the Republican Elites said they would not vote for him either.

    All those Graduate Degree Holders feeding in DC sitting around ringing their hands someone with a commensurate Graduate Degree might run the place! Plus he acted with a monkey!!!!!!

    Fetish Republicans are funny.

    Heaven forbid the people actually choose, then they are labeled waysusssssss and part of some conspiracy Alt-Right.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  239. RKS appears to be really angry at conservatives and at black people. I wonder if he thinks he’s helping Trump win. Personally I’ve never been more sure I’ll vote against him, and I bet for every vocal commenter there are hundreds of folks who aren’t commenting.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  240. someone with = without

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  241. RKS, Trump isn’t Reagan. Ronald Reagan was a fundamentally decent man. Reagan opposed the very communist dictators Trump has praised. Reagan never would have treated the mother of his kids the way Trump treated his.

    Trump was endorsed by Jimmy Carter, remember? Donald Trump gave the maximum amount allowed by law to Walter Mondale and Jimmy Carter.

    You’re the guy worshiping a false idol, not me. I just have a clear understanding of why conservatism works. Reagan never had this fundamental shift in views that Trump pretends to have had right in time for the GOP primaries.

    Why is it that you’re so zealous to defend a politician? Perhaps you’re the one with the problem. You certainly will be in November.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  242. LOL Dustin.

    Yes I hate black people. Smart retort!!!!!!!!!!

    Dustin, do you even know black people? In that little law cubicle of yours, how many do you share a drink with or break bread with or invite to your home or have your kids play with? And if you do, how many are actually like poor and grew rough in rough families or didn’t finish high school? Or speak broken english?

    I ask because the black people I “get along” with all grew up in the Hood with me. We speak a different language. We move different. We act different. … I am a long way away from those days but suffice it to say drop me in the Chicago South Side or Detroit and I will be a’ight with a minor costume change.

    You and Fetish Conservatives claiming to not be wayyssusususussss would be hospitalized or dead, especially the brown ones with Ivy Degrees who grew up in their protected little enclaves and pretend they “get it.”

    Glad to rep my bonadfies with race hustlers like you. I know the hustle when I see it.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  243. Dustin,

    And Rick Perry loved AL Gore. And Reagan too was a Democrat. And we can go on.

    Trump gave b/c Trump is rich and wants influence.

    Bloomberg another example.

    Please.

    No perfect candidate but this one might have a chance to roll back stuff people like Bush made worse. Emphasis CHANCE.

    Ted Cruz was never going to get things done with his personality.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  244. General George B. McClellan was a great organizer, smart dude, but not a man to win a war. General George B. McClellan = Fetish Conservatives

    Grant, a brawling, merciless, corrupt drunk. General Ulysses S Grant = Conservative

    You tell me who was more effective ….. and that is why I support Trump AT THIS TIME.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  245. “If appropriate and measured responses to threats are not put in place,
    Eventually an overreaction follows.”

    ‘Over’ reaction? Fraud is a form of force! Force is perfectly justified against fraud, once discovered! If that force has to be direct rather than implied, so much the worse for the fraudsters!

    “I don’t know who is foolish enough to not see this,
    and who is betting on it,
    figuring they will strike in the midst of the chaos.
    About as crazy as Charlie Manson,
    that is.”

    @outsideness and other nrxers were once proponents of ‘accelerationism’ or ‘worse is better’, on the theory that it would be easier for smart people (them) to take over once the revolution came.

    Good thing the alt-right conquered them first.

    Is “Denver Guy” a handle for someone who has been banned???

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  246. And Rick Perry loved AL Gore. And Reagan too was a Democrat. And we can go on.

    No, RKS, these examples are terrible ones.

    Reagan was always conservative, but the democrat party devolved away from his views. That’s not what happened with Trump. Ron Paul’s claims about Perry have been debunked. Perry is on record having supported George HW Bush in 1988.

    Trump, on the other hand, doesn’t have some isolated, long ago support of a conservative democrat. He supported Walter Mondale and Jimmy Carter to the max against Ronald Reagan. He supported Hillary. He wanted Bush impeached and blamed Bush for 9/11 a few months ago.

    Your continued need to bash Ted Cruz shows you could care less about it. You don’t support the conservative cause and consider it a fetish rather than a valid point of view. But Ted Cruz has in fact gotten quite a few things done and has a great career history. But Cruz isn’t running against Trump. Try to keep up.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  247. RKS?

    You are relying on Trump’s personality?

    Cruz promised to use the Presidential veto and issue ObamaCare waivers and use the Presidential veto tO accomplish his goals. Trump promises to ask Congress to give him what he wants — a Congress that may have a Democratic Senate and if it is is Republican, will only be that way by the narrowest margins.

    What specific things do you think Trump can accomplish because of his personality, and why?

    DRJ (15874d)

  248. I honestly think that Hillary Clinton will be a worse president than George W. Bush – and I was raised in a household where George W. Bush was perceived as an embarrassment to the office.

    When I raised this point with my dad over a beer last night, he grimaced and nodded.

    And the alternative is Donald F*cking Trump.

    That’s how bad this election is.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  249. TTT Dustin, who works in low-status shitlaw, continues to demonstrate that ‘reply’ is not the same as ‘response’.

    “Reagan opposed the very communist dictators Trump has praised.”

    Reagan opposed the USSR. Russia is not the USSR. Many federal agencies and the individuals who run them are rather indistinguishable from the USSA at the moment, though. You can kill commies with either a mob or a monarch, it’s just looking like the latter is the most sensible solution at the moment.

    “Trump was endorsed by Jimmy Carter, remember? Donald Trump gave the maximum amount allowed by law to Walter Mondale and Jimmy Carter.”

    And then turned around and gave to Reagan after that. You thick or something? Eat paint chips as a kid? That why you’ve forgotten the 80s?

    “Happyfeet, you’ve mentioned abortion as the biggest issue in this election. You mention abortion in almost every thread where Trump is discussed as a huge reason ‘lifeydoodles’ should support Trump. But you are not a ‘lifeydoodle’ and apparently think we are nuts worthy of ridicule.”

    You are worthy of ridicule. When Trump took the sane and principled position that there SHOULD be punishment for women who act as accessories in the murder of their children, no one hollered louder than the pro-life activists, at which point he went along with what they said and changed a position that he didn’t care about and would rather leave to judges.

    “I don’t think you understand what slavery is. If someone agrees to work for room and board, that’s not slavery. If a person is no longer considered a person and becomes property of another, that’s slavery.”

    What if I bribe outside communications in the town my guy works in to say nothing about the fact that he can make room and board plus 4K a month working in the next town over?

    “Hell, if a person agrees to work for nothing, he’s an intern, not a slave. If a person agrees to work and pay his boss, he’s a student, not a slave.”

    Legal scholar appears to have no concept of the fact of taking advantage of a low-information counterparty, natural monopolies, or the interests of parents and other posterity over employers.

    “If slave owners were resurrected and got to vote, I bet they would vote 99%+ for Trump and make all kinds of ridiculous explanations of how what they are doing is just like something else that completely misses the point.”

    Given that the loudest Trump haters are the ones who profit most obscenely from importing labor under extremely slave-like conditions, this seems pretty counterfactual. Read Vdare lately, or at all?

    ““Hey, Cletus owns a John Deere Combine, how is that different from slavery, hyuk hyuk?””

    Reflexive and unoriginal anti-redneckisms like this are NOT going to look good when your posting career is reviewed on the Day Of The Rope.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  250. Dustin, the fact is that if you had given slaves the choice to remain slaves or be sent back to Africa, many would choose to remain as slaves. You’d have the same national economic situation as my scenario. The going wage in the south would be room and board and the North wouldn’t be able to compete with the south on trade and whites in the south wouldn’t have jobs so they would need to set up their own plantations/work compounds that utilize room and board workers and would be desperately importing these willing room and board laborers. The north would also have to start importing willing room and board laborers to compete with the south.

    Republicans used to be able to see a few steps ahead and avoid policies that would lead to disaster.

    Jcurtis (510410)

  251. Grant, a brawling, merciless, corrupt drunk.
    And one of the least capable Presidents in history, who spent the last months of his life writing his memoirs so his family was not left penniless after his death.

    kishnevi (410e69)

  252. Dustin, the fact is that if you had given slaves the choice to remain slaves or be sent back to Africa, many would choose to remain as slaves.

    The fact is that if they had that choice, they wouldn’t be property. They would be free people, and not slaves. Having the choice matters because of human rights. That some Trump supporting slave owner would feed their slaves their favorite flavor of gruel doesn’t mean their sin in taking human freedom isn’t absolute.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  253. I don’t support Trump. I’ll probably vote for him, though. As a very intelligent person of my acquantance put it, Trump’s victory won’t be my victory. But his defeat will be my defeat. I’m not going to get over it, like the Trumpkins keep lecturing me. Like Donald Trump said.

    “And you know what? There’s a point at which let’s get to be a little establishment,” Trump said. “We gotta get things done folks, OK? Believe me, don’t worry, we’re gonna make such great deals.”

    What am I supposed to get over? Being a free speech absolutist? Donald Trump would ration speech. Differently than Hillary! but he’d still ration it.

    “One of the things I’m going to do if I win, and I hope we do and we’re certainly leading. I’m going to open up our libel laws so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money. We’re going to open up those libel laws. So when The New York Times writes a hit piece which is a total disgrace or when The Washington Post, which is there for other reasons, writes a hit piece, we can sue them and win money instead of having no chance of winning because they’re totally protected,”

    Barack Obama went before the UN and declared the future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. Slander according to Sharia includes speaking a truth that the someone does not want known. Salman Rushdie was exactly correct, dozens of early Muslim sources will confirm the tale of the Satanic verses. That didn’t stop the Ayatollahs from putting a fatwa on his head. I know for a fact that things known to be true constitute hate speech, according to the proponents of hate speech law. The moronic convergence; leftist hate speech proponents and Islamic blasphemy condemners want the same thing. Is Trump all that different? No, he’ll sue you for writing anything “purposely negative” and “horrible” about him no matter how true it is.

    Am I supposed to get over speaking things I believe to be true? I might be wrong, but I have the right to be wrong. Even about Donald Trump.

    Either way, I’m going to get a President who doesn’t think I have the right to speak my mind. Goldstein is right. The alt right is at odds with America’s founding principles. But then so are those who want to fundamentally transform America. I’ll just leave it at that. It sucks no matter how you look at it.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  254. Truth is the new hate speech. You can know this because, if the “hate” was false, it could be disproven. Because it can’t it has to be outlawed.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  255. What did Abe Lincoln have to say about Grant, kishnevi?

    Colonel Haiku (59ae41)

  256. nono Mr. Dustin

    Mr. Trump gave us a list of his judges he wants to do all up in the courts

    his judges will help save the wiggle giggles!

    we can’t let stinkypig steal their one chance at happiness

    we have to support Mr. Trump for so the principles of LIFE won’t be ignored

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  257. Lincoln being dead by then had no comment about President Grant.

    But if you praise a candidate for POTUS as being like Grant, best remember Grant was a lousy president.

    And his one real difference from the other generals was his willingness to accept huge casualties as the price of victory.

    kishnevi (410e69)

  258. Denver Guy (4750ec) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:42 pm

    Trump gets it. I can’t help it if Sammy Finkelman doesn’t, but thinks he does.

    Trump said he didn’t know what the alt-right is. A

    What I am getting from the New York T

    FYI, Alex Jones is not alt right, even if he claims to be. He’s pro supplement sales. And is correct about certain things also, but rejects core tenets of the alt right.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  259. Alex Jones would be too much of a “National Leaguer” given his go-to status in the hip-hop community, for true alt-right status.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  260. And his one real difference from the other generals was his willingness to accept huge casualties as the price of victory.

    kishnevi (410e69) — 9/7/2016 @ 8:37 am

    But casualties are the price of victory. I wish it were some other way, but there’s not. It’s what made Rome a world power. They were willing to accept ecasualties their enemies weren’t. I give you King Pyyrhus of Epirus. I give you Hannibal. By their standards they had won the war. But the Romans wouldn’t admit defeat. I give you the Naval battles of Guadalcanal. Particularly those of Scott and Callaghan, which were fought stupidly, I’ll admit. But they had to be fought, and at the time, stupid was the only way to fight them. At the time the USN didn’t know how badly they were outclassed in night fighting. We didn’t know until after WWII. But Henderson Field had to be held at all costs. All costs means, there are more dead Sailors off Guadalcanal then their are dead Marines and Soldiers on Guadalcanal.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  261. Accidently sent something too early.

    I read something somewhere that people have used the term Alt-right to mean a number of different things.

    What I am getting from the New York Times, which sounds like it could be right, was that the term alt-right was coined by Richard Spencer in 2008.

    And that while he characterized himself (or was characterized by others) as a white supremacist, it was all a cover for one thing: opposition to immigration. His National Policy Institute was concerned only about one thing: immigration.

    FYI, Alex Jones is not alt right, even if he claims to be. He’s pro supplement sales. And is correct about certain things also, but rejects core tenets of the alt right.

    I didn’t say he was part of the alt-right. It was the New York Times and others, including himself, who said that.

    Alex Jones is a little bit bigger than that.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  262. I think he’s talking about what Lincoln said about Grant as a general. Grants was crriticized for getting too many soldiers killed.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  263. Jcurtis (510410) — 9/7/2016 @ 7:40 am

    , the fact is that if you had given slaves the choice to remain slaves or be sent back to Africa, many would choose to remain as slaves.

    It would be an interesting question to investigate if any did get that choice, and if some made the choice to stay where they are and not to go to Liberia.

    By that time very few slaves had been born in Africa, and besides Liberia was not where they caame from, and they had ties here.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  264. How many more soldiers would he have gotten killed if he had took his time? We’ll never know. Like I said, I wish there was another way. But every battle is a series of mistakes. And whoever out-stupids his opponent, loses.

    We have a huge inventory of “Lessons Learned.” And they’re not really ever learned. But we have them because we could have done better. This isn’t to say we don’t have individual commanders who can’t use their heads. Off the the top of my head I think of Moosbrugger, Burke, Spruance, and Fletcher (Yes, Marines, Fletcher). One guy who deserves honorable mention is the skipper of the USS Smith.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Santa_Cruz_Islands

    …On fire, the fourth damaged aircraft purposely crashed into the destroyer Smith, setting the ship on fire and killing 57 of her crew. To make matters worse, the torpedo carried by this aircraft somehow survived the initial impact but detonated shortly afterward, causing even more damage. The fires initially seemed out of control until Smith’s commanding officer ordered the destroyer to steer into the large spraying wake of the battleship USS South Dakota, which helped put out the fires. Smith then resumed her station, firing her remaining anti-aircraft guns at the still attacking torpedo planes.

    That’s seamanship. If he were alive, I’d shake this CO’s hand and buy him a drink.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  265. Attempting to identify who is and who is not alt-right seems a fools errand. Might as well try to list those who are part of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.

    The other day I tried reading “Politically Incorrect” over at 4chan.org – a hotbed of the alt-right – and was surprised by how much they sound like us, though considerably more childish (most of them are kids, after all). I also tried to read Random, but it was a bit too racy for my blood.

    The one thing to remember about the alt-right and the millennials who are the primary followers is that millennials have endured a lifetime of Multi-Culti indoctrination and stultifying political correctness – something almost none of us have experience with. The alt-right constitutes their reaction to it.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  266. i’m not alt nothing i just wanna beat that pig

    why am i so lonely

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  267. BS. I’m going on 54, and I have plenty of experience with the multi-culti nonsense. Not exactly unrelated, I went through Tailhook. That was, what, twenty years ago? Going on a quarter century by my calendar.

    This is not a new thing unique to millennials.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  268. Maybe I was on the cutting edge of crimethink. Ahead of the curve.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  269. But was it a part of your K-12 experience? Those are the formative years. I have 5 years on you and it didn’t play any part of mine.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  270. Yes. I attended Catholic school.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  271. so did I, jesuit in fact, I guess that explains my inquiring nature,

    narciso (d1f714)

  272. I’ve been mostly associated with the Franciscans and Dominicans.

    Steve57 (747e61)

  273. i’m not alt nothing i just wanna beat that pig

    why am i so lonely

    You’re not.

    Senior Editor Jay Nordinger of NRO acknowledges this.

    Denver Guy (3ef9a0)

  274. Thor @271: My k-12 education was full of the BS that kisnevi believes to be the truth (e.g., see his profoundly ignorant comment on Grant.) The science and math were much better than anything since, but the propagandists were hard at in the 50s and 60s, driving a stake into capitalism and American history. Fortunately, you can buy books that set the record straight. Unfortunately, this takes time, opportunity, and desire. And cognitive dissonance is a malady too many lefties are immune to, and absent some indication of need, they surely lack the desire to see how the world actually works.

    The notion that the Alt-Right is formed mainly of youngsters who are rebelling at their indoctrination is compelling. Since they have no knowledge of history, they are logically constructing their new philosophy on the same basis as that which they have been taught … class warfare, envy, hatred, a celebration of ignorance, mythical tribal values, and so on.

    BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5)

  275. Bob,

    That’s only half of it. Yes, they rebel against their indoctrination, but they haven’t completely cast it aside. They still see the world through the multi-culti prism. They have simply rejected the White guilt aspect – what do they have to feel guilty about, anyway?

    Does it make you a White supremacist is you deny White guilt? That is the formulation used by many critics of the alt-right.

    Also, rebelling millennials, no doubt, see traditional constitutional conservatives as ineffectual.

    You know, I sure feel ineffectual.

    ThOR (c9324e)

  276. “PETER THIEL: Trump has taught us this year’s most important political lesson. “The establishment doesn’t want to admit it, but Trump’s heretical denial of Republican dogma about government incapacity is exactly what we need to move the party — and the country — in a new direction.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/243299/

    Colonel Haiku (61b436)

  277. I think that’s the larger aspect of it, thor, yes, grant chose some poor advisors, that became involved in the credit mobilier scandal, which encompassed other office holders like blaine with garfield being a rare exception, but a number of these legendary scandala like tea pot dome, were really less than meets the eye,

    narciso (d1f714)

  278. If slave owners were resurrected and got to vote, I bet they would vote 99%+ for Trump and make all kinds of ridiculous explanations of how what they are doing is just like something else that completely misses the point.

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/7/2016 @ 6:40 am

    The slave owners don’t need to be resurrected they’re alive in every ghetto in every large city in America. And surprise, Dustin, They’re still 100% damn democrats.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  279. And what is our fallback if we fail to “reclaim the Constitution?”

    Do we condemn ourselves to perpetual underclass status?

    ThOR (c9324e)

  280. and as d’nesh pointed out, most of the diehard segregationists like hollings, fulbright et al, stayed democrats.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/09/07/two-police-stabbed-molenbeek/

    narciso (d1f714)

  281. the omega glory position, e pleb nista

    narciso (d1f714)

  282. Kishnevi knows what I asked, Sammeh. What did Abe Lincoln think of Grant?

    Here’s some good info…

    http://www.mrlincolnandfriends.org/the-officers/ulysses-grant/

    Colonel Haiku (61b436)

  283. Re: Perry and Gore and dishonest attempts to whitewash Perry’s support… from 2011:

    “ABC News’ Michael Falcone reports:

    As he has risen to the top of national Republican presidential polls over the last few weeks, Rick Perry has been forced to confront his past — including the years he spent as a Democrat.

    In particular, Perry has been fielding uncomfortable questions about his support for Al Gore in the 1988 presidential race. Perry, who did not switch to the Republican Party until 1989, served as a high-profile Texas supporter of Gore’s presidential bid.

    More than two-decades later, as the front-runner for the GOP presidential nomination, Perry frequently cites Gore’s support of the Strategic Defense Initiative, a Ronald Reagan-era anti-ballistic missile proposal that later came to be known as Star Wars.

    “I was a Democrat in my days in the Legislature in the 80’s and I was under the false idea that somehow or another that conservative Democrats could save the Democrat Party. They couldn’t,” Perry said in an interview with conservative talk show host Sean Hannity on Tuesday. “Al Gore appeared to be the most conservative — a strong Strategic Defense Initiative guy — and frankly we thought that he would be the most conservative Democrat. You, know, we were wrong.”

    Last weekend, at a campaign appearance in Ottumwa, Iowa, Perry called Gore a “strong Strategic Defense Initiative proponent.”

    But Gore’s support for the Strategic Defense Initiative while he was running for president in the late 1980’s was not nearly as enthusiastic as Perry implies.

    In fact, just weeks before Gore launched his presidential bid in the summer of 1987, he dismissed the defense proposal as “an electronic Astrodome over the United States” in an interview with the Associated Press.

    In a January 1988 interview with Florida’s St. Petersburg Times, Gore was asked whether he would support increasing research funds for the initiative. His response: no way.

    “I oppose absolutely any plan for development or deployment of the Strategic Defense Initiative system,” Gore said. “Research on SDI should be confined to a strict interpretation of the ABM treaty. The focus of this research should be to assure that we have a state-of-the-art understanding of the basic science and technology that could be relevant to defense.”

    And a few months later, in April 1988, Gore was quoted in the Washington Post as saying that the Strategic Defense Initiative was wrong-headed.

    “‘I’m sure that President Reagan sincerely believes he is acting with the best of purposes in looking to SDI as a way to permanently end the threat of mutual nuclear annihilation,” Gore said. “But he is wrong — wrong because SDI is not feasible, wrong because it would entail exorbitant costs and, most important, wrong because it would make the possibility of a nuclear first-strike more likely.”

    In the years since, and particularly now that he is a presidential candidate, Perry has taken pains to disavow his past support for Gore, saying that he did not know about the future vice president’s views on the environment. But Perry has continued to use the Strategic Defense Initiative as justification for his endorsement more than 20 years ago.

    The Perry campaign declined to comment.”

    Colonel Haiku (61b436)

  284. Well, Perry may not have been aware, even yeasr later, where Gore stood on Star Wars. Gore still was more conservative.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  285. Yes, and up is down, Sammeh…

    Colonel Haiku (61b436)

  286. It’s these questionable assertions, like Perry’s admitted support for Al Gore, made with such unabashed confidence that calls this particular bloviator’s character and perspective into question.

    Colonel Haiku (61b436)

  287. Perry’s admitted support being shown to be a false contention…

    Colonel Haiku (61b436)

  288. Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/7/2016 @ 6:35 am

    he’s paying fines for employing illegals,

    That’s not actually correct, although Marco Rubio (and also Ted Cruz) said so.

    As Trump said in response, quite accurately here, the laws were totally different then (it wasn’t illegal for him to do so) and it was a totally different world. This happened in 1980.

    Trump didn’t explain it exactly but what he was guilty of was not paying the minimum wage, and conspiring with a union official to violate its contract by not paying into its fund for benefits.

    He was sued in two separate lawsuits, and settled many, many, years later, in 1998, in preparation for his first actual presidential campaign, for the nomination of the Reform Party, (which he abandoned rather early though)

    and he loves the communist dictator of North Korea.

    Also Putin in Russia, and Erdogan in Turkey after the failed coup attempt.

    James Kirchick wrote in the current (September) issue of Commmentary magazine

    Trump’s observations about international affairs often sound like the commentary of excited play-by-play sportscaster, utterly detached from any sort of moral or analytical reflection.

    That’s putting the best possible light on this.

    https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/how-putin-plays-trump-like-a-piano/

    Trump is a con man, and I do not buy the bridge he is selling that he’s going to anything I want. His convention speech was a list of huge government programs he wants.

    You suggest I have an irrational worship of conservatism because I explain why I agree with limited government. Simply because in your head, anyone who doesn’t support Trump must be crazy. You are unwilling to consider the possibility that there is a valid opinion other than your own. Everyone who differs with you is just crazy. That’s not a sign of a strong mind.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  289. Dustin:

    Trump is a con man, and I do not buy the bridge he is selling that he’s going to anything I want.

    Trump has made a few promises that he would be embarassed to totally back down on, but that’s all.

    You suggest I have an irrational worship of conservatism because I explain why I agree with limited government. Simply because in your head, anyone who doesn’t support Trump must be crazy.

    The person you are arguing with says he is not a conservative and doesn’t believe in limited government, because, he says, limited government would allow the ethnic composition of the United States to change. (and in so doing, he also admits that enforcing immigration laws is a form of fascism, which he is also for)

    To quote him:

    Fascist? We support harsh law enforcement unironically. Its thousand-year track record of success in both open and covert practice is miles ahead of anything else tried.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  290. 277. so did I, jesuit in fact, I guess that explains my inquiring nature,

    narciso (d1f714)

    I remember my Jesuit teachers in high school reminiscing about their days in Central America. The religion department was all ex-seminarians who would take sick days to go to protests. One rich white clown in that department would always tell his students that he attended an all black church and called J.C. Watts an “Uncle Tom”. Today your son can get all the social justice they want for only $22,000 per year for tuition.

    Jack Klompus (f1f212)

  291. “doesn’t believe in limited government, because, he says, limited government would allow the ethnic composition of the United States to change.”

    Unlimited government has also caused the ethnic composition of the United States to change. This sentence conveys no information except, perhaps, a (((signal))).

    “(and in so doing, he also admits that enforcing immigration laws is a form of fascism, which he is also for)”

    And not enforcing them is a form of lawlessness, which I must shamefacedly “admit” I am also against.

    Keep trying, Finkleman, you might accidentally make an argument somehow!

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  292. “That some Trump supporting slave owner would feed their slaves their favorite flavor of gruel doesn’t mean their sin in taking human freedom isn’t absolute.”

    “Trump supporting slave owner”, like “pro-life Hillary enthusiast”, is definitely one of the more interesting counterfactuals you’ve come up with.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  293. I apologize if it was said already but Hillary’s attack on the Alt-Right is pretty much what has been said about Republicans for a long time.

    DN (55212d)

  294. Yeah, still having a hard time hating Russia. I blame Reagan, he told me the cold war was over.

    My current concern is Islam, and the fact the democrat candidate is literally in bed with them.

    Meanwhile, half the nevertrumpers tell me Trump is too cozy with Russia, and the other half say he’ll declare war on them.

    Mostly, nevertrumpers are full of horse biscuits.

    LBascom (09d352)

  295. BobStewartatHome “Is Vox Day anything but a David Duke like strawman?”

    Do you know who David Duke is? I remember seeing him give speeches as a student at LSU. He was nothing more than attention whore. Much like Jessie Jackson he’s did all for money.

    One question needs to be asked is who is funding Duke’s current campaign for Senate. It surely isn’t the alt-right (whatever that’s supposed to be) or any conservatives.

    Roux (f5b497)

  296. Meanwhile, half the nevertrumpers tell me Trump is too cozy with Russia, and the other half say he’ll declare war on them.

    Umm. Yeah. Heard the first (and believe it), but never heard the second. If I’ve heard anything about going to war with Russia, it’s from Trumpers saying that’s what Hillary will do.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  297. Well Dystopia, it was a joke, but if you were a slave owner, would you vote for Trump or Hillary? We both know the answer.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  298. Dustin,

    You probably know more about this history stuff than I do, but weren’t the slave owners generally Democrats around the time of 1860?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  299. You probably know more about this history stuff than I do, but weren’t the slave owners generally Democrats around the time of 1860?

    Wasn’t Trump a Democrat last election?

    JP (7d4540)

  300. well considering how al husseini, and abu mazen were honored guests in razorback’s tenure,

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog-september-7-2016/

    the records that stroilov compiled are of note,

    narciso (d1f714)

  301. #305 JP,

    Trump supported Romney in 2012.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  302. LBascom (09d352) — 9/7/2016 @ 12:34 pm

    Meanwhile, half the nevertrumpers tell me Trump is too cozy with Russia, and the other half say he’ll declare war on them.

    No contradiction. It could be first he’ll be too cozy with them, and then he’ll have a war with them, after Putin miscalculates.

    Right now, he’s set to destroy NATO:

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/campaign/294817-transcript-of-donald-trumps-speech-on-national-security-in

    Early in my term, I will also be requesting that all NATO nations promptly pay their bills, which many are not doing right now. Only 5 NATO countries, including the United States, are currently meeting the minimum requirement to spend 2% of GDP on defense.

    Of course they won’t do it. This kind of “taxation” didn’t work with the Articles of Confederation, and it won’t work here. And certainly not suddenly. (it did sort of work with the Delian League but Athens I think sent an army to collect the taxes)

    Additionally, I will be respectfully asking countries such as Germany, Japan, South Korea and Saudi Arabia to pay more for the tremendous security we provide them.

    And what happens if they don’t cough up the money? But don’t think that Trump will necessarily totally get along with Putin:

    Russia has defied this Administration at every turn. Putin has no respect for President Obama or Hillary Clinton.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  303. nevertrumpies don’t make no sense

    they suck at pig-beating

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  304. Trump should expose Matt L. for the being a clinton foundation rump swab.

    mg (31009b)

  305. Well Dystopia, it was a joke, but if you were a slave owner, would you vote for Trump or Hillary? We both know the answer.

    Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/7/2016 @ 3:01 pm
    ==============================================

    If you agree, I will bankroll you taking your “Flying Monkeys Out of Dustin’s Derrière” circus act on teh road.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  306. I think Jesus would vote Trump. Moses too.

    …. Soon Fetish Republicans with call them misogynist.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  307. Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world. If that was an attempt at a a serious comment, RKS, how do you figure?

    Steve57 (747e61)

  308. 307.#305 JP,

    Trump supported Romney in 2012.

    True, and more importantly, he apparently returned to the Republican fold in April 2012… After leaving the party in 2011, and before that he was a Democrat from 2001-2009.

    It’s hard to keep track.

    JP (bd5dd9)

  309. True, and more importantly, he apparently returned to the Republican fold in April 2012… After leaving the party in 2011, and before that he was a Democrat from 2001-2009.

    It’s hard to keep track.

    He disenrolled – saying he ddin’t want to be in anypolitical party in December, 2011,and re-enmrolled as a Republican in April, 2012.

    The record obtained by the Smokinng Gun doesn’t go back before 1987.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/donald-trump/donald-trump-voter-history-567920

    * JULY 1987: Trump registers for the first time from his Fifth Avenue penthouse. The real estate developer, 41 at the time, reports having previously been registered from his boyhood home in Queens (though his prior party affiliation is unclear). Trump enrolls as a REPUBLICAN.

    [This seems to be his first choice. He also wanted to be vice president. – SF.]

    * OCTOBER 1999: Trump dumps the GOP and enrolls as a member of the INDEPENDENCE PARTY.

    [Note: This could be a mistake, as he might have meant to be an Independent. Unless the INDEPENDENCE PARTY was affiliated with Ross Perot’s REFORM party. Trump was planning to run for the nomination of the Reform Party at the time. There is no registration in New York State for any parties besides permanent ones, which are parties that got at least 50,000 votes in the last Gubernatorial election. – SF]

    * AUGUST 2001: Trump enrolls as a DEMOCRAT.

    [Note: The president of the United States at the time was a Republican – SF]

    * SEPTEMBER 2009: After eight years as a Democrat, Trump returns to the REPUBLICAN PARTY.

    [The President was now a Democrat – and not a Democrat he had any acquaintance with – SF]

    * DECEMBER 2011: Trump lasts two years before he again abandons the party of Ronald Reagan. He eschews the GOP in favor of siding with no party. On his registration form, “The Apprentice” star checks off the box marked “I DO NOT WISH TO ENROLL IN A PARTY.”

    * APRIL 2012: Trump registers as a REPUBLICAN.

    [Around this time, Trump begins to limit his political contributions almost exclusively to Republicans]

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  310. The Governor of New York State was also a Republican (Pataki) from the 1994 election to the 2006 election, and had previously been a Democrat since the election of 1974. (Hugh Carey and Mario Cuomo)

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  311. Rodney King’s Spirit (d28741) — 9/7/2016 @ 7:51 pm

    Moses too. </blockquote. How so, when not enforcing the law was the principal point of distinction that the gentiles would recognize that he drew between the Torah and the laws of the nations (Code of Hammurabi)

    I'll explain later.

    But it has to do with freeing slaves who escaped, but only those slaves who escaped. And going to great lengths to do so.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  312. Trump’s claim to have opposed the second Iraq war:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/21/donald-trumps-baseless-claim-that-the-bush-white-house-tried-to-silence-his-iraq-war-opposition-in-2003/?tid=a_inl

    (BTW, only the New York Post maybe debunked Bill Clinton’s claim in 1992 to have supported the Gulf war and his bobbing and weaving on that got very little attention)

    Trump got something right:

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/07/13/trump-correctly-uses-new-statistic-that-there-are-20-veteran-suicides-a-day/?tid=a_inl

    Although he was back to using the wrong statistic last night. It is 20 veteransaday committing suicide not 22. Most are older veteraans from other wars.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  313. Mr. Trump’s a dab hand with the statistics that’s one of the areas where the lying stinkypig can’t even compete with him

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  314. Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/7/2016 @ 3:28 pm

    but weren’t the slave owners generally Democrats around the time of 1860?

    The ones who were for secession definitely were. Actually, I don’t think theer was any oher party in the south. Maybe different varietes of Democrats.

    And they were all Democrats after the Civil War, too. Only the freed slaves, southern Unionists, and northern carpetbaggers were Republicans. Places in the south that sides with the union, like certinc ounties in Kentucky, were Republican. Things remained that way until at least the 1950s.

    Sammy Finkelman (337057)

  315. 324, That tended to be a Appalachian thing in re West Virginia’s split from Virginia mid-war. East Tennessee also tended toward pre-southern strategy Republicanism.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  316. I come here now to this site for shits and giggles
    .
    .
    .
    .
    And to hear my own call me a wayssisisissssssss minority cuz I think Trump is better than Hillary.

    My how times have changed.

    When I was voting Cruz they said I was a good Americun.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  317. I come here now to this site for shaaatttss and giggles
    .
    .
    .
    .
    And to hear my own call me a wayssisisissssssss minority cuz I think Trump is better than Hillary.

    My how times have changed.

    When I was voting Cruz they said I was a good Americun.

    Rodney King's Spirit (d28741)

  318. 324.325. Also parts of North Carolina, and maybe Virginia and one county in Alabama.

    But the percentages were highest in Kentucky and Tennessee.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  319. Transcript of the NBC Commander-in-Chief Forum, live from the Carrier Intrepid, hosted by Matt Lauer:

    http://time.com/4483355/commander-chief-forum-clinton-trump-intrepid/

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  320. Hillary Clinton wants, as much as possible, to run an issueless campaign when addressing the general public.

    Matt Lauer asked about judgment, but Hillary Clinton only wanted to talk about steadfastedness and temperament. These two things are independent of positions on policy issues.

    When Matt Lauer continued talking about judgment, she defined “judgment” as Donald trump not willing to admit he had taken a “wrong” position on going to war with Iraq.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  321. Donald Trump describing how good a negotiator he is:

    …And if you look at what happened, look at the aftermath today where the people that arranged the trip in Mexico have been forced out of government. That’s how well we did.

    LAUER: Back in August─

    TRUMP: And that’s how well we’re going to have to do, Matt.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  322. Trump:

    …as an example, you look at Iraq, what happened, how
    badly that was handled. And then when President Obama took over,
    likewise, it was a disaster. It was actually somewhat stable. I don’t
    think could ever be very stable to where we should have never gone into
    in the first place.

    But he came in. He said when we go out ── and he took everybody out. And really, ISIS was formed. This was a terrible decision…

    ISIS was formed in Syria.

    Al Qaeda in Iraq which became the Islamic State of Iraq was chased out of Iraq, but found sanctuary in Syria, especially after the revolt started in 2011. Then they went back into Iraq.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  323. , but if we’re going to get out, take the oil.

    Surely the Starship Enterprise has a method of taking all the oil out of Iraq and beaming it to the United States into underground caverns in the west.

    I mean does this make any sense at all?

    It would sound like he was proposing to extract all the pil Iraq was going to extract in the next ten years before we left. Like it’s in storage.

    http://energyindustryphotos.com/largest_oil_storage_facility_in.htm

    And furthermore, ISIS was selling oil in Syria. It never occupied much of the Iraqi oil fields. It’s just that trump wants to give credence to the war for oil slander.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  324. LAUER: How were we going to take the oil? How were we going to do that?

    TRUMP: Just we would leave a certain group behind and you would take various sections where they have the oil. They have ── people don’t know this about Iraq, but they have among the largest oil reserves in the world, in the entire world.

    But in that case, you wouldn’t be entirely out of Iraq.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  325. Wednesday night Romney tweets suggestion to consider Johnson. Thursday morning Johnson has his Alleppo slippo.

    Oops. Who let the dogs out, Willard.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  326. Romney is trying to take the easy path – teh least disturbance in the political status quo. Not even McMillun.

    But he always was inadequate.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  327. trump:

    Russia wants to defeat ISIS as badly as we do. If we had a relationship with Russia, wouldn¡¯t it be wonderful if we could work on it together and knock the hell out of ISIS? Wouldn’t that be a wonderful thing?

    NO!!!

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/07/middleeast/syria-aleppo-chlorine-attack/index.html

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/25/assad-regime-isis-chemical-attacks-syria-un-investigators

    But that’s certainly the angle Putin wants us to take.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  328. India got democracy because of years of being colonised by Europeans. In return for European advantages they gave some economic advantages by exclusive trade with the Empire. I always hoped the US would colonise Iraq, and then use it as a base to spread influence in the ME. Either go all the way or stay at home, fiddling does little. And take the oil, you would have earned it. Where you really need to colonise is Saudi Arabia, enough of letting these creeps spread their evil. Take charge of Mecca and make Muslims pay to visit. Show them who’s boss. “Good Muslims” we’re always hearing about should be happy, the rest are our deadly enemies.

    brit (347793)

  329. 298: “doesn’t believe in limited government, because, he says, limited government would allow the ethnic composition of the United States to change.”

    Unlimited government has also caused the ethnic composition of the United States to change. This sentence conveys no information except, perhaps, a (((signal))).

    Dystopia Max (76803a) — 9/7/2016 @ 12:22 pm

    A lot of different things can happen without limited government. You want a particular thing to happen or not happen. But you’re not for limited government because it’s an obstacle. The point is you are against limited government.

    Same thing, let’s say if someone wanted to abolish the practice of a certain religion in acertain country. You couldn’t do that with the U.S. first amendment. If you could do that though, something quite different from what you wanted to happen could also happen. In China and Russia it can.

    “(and in so doing, he also admits that enforcing immigration laws is a form of fascism, which he is also for)”

    And not enforcing them is a form of lawlessness, which I must shamefacedly “admit” I am also against.

    not even Mark Krikorian, who heads this big anti-immigration group, the Center for Immigration Studies, http://www.cis.org, is in favor of enforcing the law, or ending lawlessness, as you put it.

    He recently wrote:

    http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/mark-krikorian-trump-tripped-immigration-article-1.2767404

    Trump’s comments suggest he’s fallen for the belief that the only alternative to mass deportation is mass amnesty of all but hardened criminals. This is a false choice.

    What’s the thrid choice? Continuation of the status quo, more or less. Just causing the illegal-alien problem to shrink over time. What Mitt Romney at one point called self-deportation till he took it back.

    He says enforcing the law is not on Donald Trump’s website:

    As haphazard and even comical as this is, it’s driven by a problem of Trump’s creation: He has said that he wants a “deportation force” to quickly remove all 11 million-plus illegal aliens. This is not present in the immigration platform on his website. No immigration-control thinker has ever suggested it. He just made it up because it sounded good at the time.

    The problem is that, unlike his other, sound, immigration proposals — better border enforcement, ending sanctuary cities, reducting Middle Eastern refugee resettlement — deporting 12 million people is neither practical nor politically sustainable.

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)

  330. Trump goes wild when his daughter and son-in-law take a day off:

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/217573

    Sammy Finkelman (643dcd)


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