Persuaded to Vote Trump?
Someone finally made an argument that convinced me to vote for Donald Trump.
They pointed out that we face a binary choice. That if I criticize Donald Trump, I’m really helping Hillary Clinton. That a failure to vote for Trump is really a vote for Hillary Clinton.
Sure, I have heard this argument before, about 15,000 times. But the 15,001st time is the one that really sank in. In this version, I was persuaded by the argument that apparently I am a pinko jerk, that I really love Hillary Clinton, and that I want her to get elected. That I am a leftist who loves to see leftism win. And that it’s people like me who will be to blame if Hillary wins.
And I was finally persuaded.
No, wait, none of that is true. Turns out I still have the same opinion. That a Trump victory will taint the GOP long-term and render the idea of limited government dead. That neither of these candidates deserves my vote, and that I will work for limited government and the free market in other ways, since neither candidate will promote those principles. This is still my opinion, even after the 15,001st iteration of the “binary choice” argument. Weird.
You know, Drew McCoy might really be onto something here:
Theory: Conservatives have made their personal decision on Trump v. Clinton. Yelling at each other isn't changing minds.
— Drew McCoy (@_Drew_McCoy_) September 5, 2016
even paranoids have enemies,
https://twitter.com/alimhaider/status/772781266898788353
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:10 amFor what it’s worth, I am not trying to persuade people to vote Hillary. I don’t think people should vote Hillary. Or Trump.
(Please, please, do explain to me that they are my only choices. Try to be as condescending in your tone as possible. Pretend you are talking to a slow child. Mmm, that’s persuasive!)
Like Drew, I think people have made up their mind. I think that we should discuss other things we have in common, and ways we can promote our ideas in ways other than through the presidential election.
It would be nice to not have comment sections be endless repetitions of the “binary argument” “but this is reality and I guess you don’t realize it yet” condescension.
Of course, the notion that the comment sections will avoid this is as utopian as hoping everyone will follow my example in writing in Ted Cruz.
All I can do is express my opinion and then watch everyone behave the way they want to behave anyway. I’m a realist. I don’t plan to get too upset about it. Do me the courtesy of not getting upset at me for my own position, which — trust me — I have arrived at after much thought and consideration. Your screaming is not going to change it. It’s really OK to stop trying.
Many of us (not the white nationalists, but the rest of us) are pulling for the same goals. Let’s discuss what else we can do to get there.
Patterico (bcf524) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:10 amCue happyfeet saying he really really likes Mr. The Donald and he will Make America Great Again by defeating the stinkypig even though happyfeet can’t be bothered to vote for Trump in 3…2…1…
Patterico (bcf524) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:11 amso which faction is likely to take this into account,
https://www.lawfareblog.com/popular-support-suicide-terrorism-bangladesh-worse-you-think
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:16 amMy three reasons for voting Trump
kishnevi (7bc26d) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:28 am1.) I live in one of the true swing states: Florida. This differentiates me from people like Patrick in California and Steve in Texas.
2.) Hillary will keep the government staffed by leftists and Democrats…and increasingly the Democrats are merely a branch of the Left, which they were not even as little as a dozen years ago.
3.) Trump is currently keeping his mouth shut most of the time, meaning I can notice how bad Hillary is without being constantly reminded how bad he is.
Continued relevance of this last factor is of course subject to how well Trump can sustain the act of putting a muzzle on his mouth.
But, you quit the GOP. How does that square with you worried about it becoming (more) tainted? If you were really concerned about the future image of the GOP, shouldn’t you still be a member, fighting to maintain the brand?
Something like:
The GOP has become so tainted by the Trump-loving leadership, that I can no longer associate myself with it. Now I must redouble my efforts to preserve its image with the electorate by fighting against it; throwing bombs at its leader at every opportunity. That will restore its brand.
That doesn’t really work, does it?
Anon Y. Mous (9e4c83) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:31 amPatterico,
We need to put the country ahead of the GOP.
Maybe a President Trump won’t be good for the GOP long term, but in the short term, he’ll be better for the country than Hillary.
Hillary’s going to appoint left wing thugs to head the various federal agencies and bureaucracies.
Barack’s Bureau of Land Management, Department of the Interior, and EPA have all been overreaching in order to harass ranchers and business owners in the western states.
And these ranchers and business owners nearly go bankrupt having to pay lawyers to fight against the federal fascism.
We can’t afford four more years of this crap.
Sadly, if there wasn’t a huge uprising to defeat Barack in 2012, and there’s not a huge uprising to defeat Hillary in 2016, why would anyone think that the nation will experience an epiphany in 2020?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:32 amNonetheless, we can’t wait for 2020 — we need to stem the tide of the left in 2016.
Trump’s no conservative, but he’ll stem the tide of the left a little better than a President Hillary will.
I am using my real name and email address because I think this is so important.
I disagree with your analysis because there is not one political office but thousands (and hundreds in Congress). Moreover, the chance of Trump saving SCOTUS–everything else is secondary.
Steven Rosenberg (be9ee4) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:33 amStill. Either Trump of Clinton will be sworn in as President.
cedarhill (7dda4a) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:42 amWith a Hillary Presidency will see the new ABA code of conduct which will end this blog.
a counter to the untergang, overwhelming doom,
http://www.weeklystandard.com/yes-donald-trump-has-a-path-to-270-electoral-votes/article/2004099/
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:43 amIf you keep attacking the one man who could defeat her, you’re responsible for every atrocity of Jill Stein’s presidency.
CayleyGraph (353727) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:59 am#9 cedarhill,
The #NeverTrumpers don’t seem to care who the next President is.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:02 amThat’s what’s so ironic about the whole thing.
90% of life is showing up.
Conservatives have a long history of going all sulky and not showing up.
Liberals always, always, always show up.
Fred Z (b0a041) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:02 amLike I tell my kids, decisions have consequences.
otto (c0cd17) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:07 amThere is a path for Trump, but Trump needs more dominoes to fall into place than Hillary does.
kishnevi (7bc26d) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:14 amRefer to the RCP map.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map.html
Assume that all the states listed solid/likely/ leaning vote for Trump and Clinton as the map does, with 155 EVs listed as tossups. Trump would need to get 116 of those, but Hillary only 41. Meaning she lose all the tossups except Florida and Virginia or Ohio or Pennsylvania— or lose Florida but get Ohio and Pennsylvania and one other state— and still win. Trump has a much smaller cushion.
Nope. I’m out until this craze blows over.
Patterico (bcf524) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:29 amI have never used the #NeverTrump hashtag, but that describes me to a T.
Do. Not. Care.
Patterico (bcf524) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:30 amIs it?
Is whether we go to war secondary?
Is a ballooning debt that is certain to result in a ruinous depression secondary?
Is an ever-increasing movement towards the powers of an emperor secondary?
I could go on.
Patterico (bcf524) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:32 amPlus, y’all need to understand.
I live in California.
California will go for Hillary. Period.
Period.
And I am not encouraging anyone to vote any particular way. Do what you like.
So why on God’s Green Earth would you get so twisted up about a vote (mine) that literally doesn’t matter, in a state whose outcome is predetermined, cast by someone who is not encouraging anyone to vote any particular way?
Patterico (bcf524) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:34 amIt’s pure irrationality.
Patterico (bcf524) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:34 amI want to see Trump fire every uniparty employee of the govt. that he can.
mg (31009b) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:44 am“A Trump victory will taint the GOP….”
So what? You don’t think a Clinton victory will taint anything? Why not just pick the viable candidate who will do the least bad job, and the least damage, and the least tainting? ’tain’t difficult.
Andrew (698d28) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:48 amHere’s something I came up with (partially for purposes of illustration) based on the fact that as more votes are cast for third party candidates, the margin Hillary Clinton has gets less.
That is, she’s got fewer people who actually might want her than does Donald Trump.
The election results may depend on the percentage of the vote that are cast for 1 of the two major party candidates for president.
It might work out like this:
Percentage of the popular vote cast for one of the two major party candidates:
>> 74% – Hillary Clinton wins.
71-74% – Possibility of the election being thrown into the House of Representatives.
56% – 71% – Donald Trump wins.
53% – 56% – Election thrown into the House of Represenatives – more than one third party candidate gets some Electoral votes – only one, of course, is among the 3 candidates the House can vote for.
51% – 53% – Election thrown into the House but Hillary Clinton is not a choice.
< 51% – A third party candidate wins.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:49 amA Trump loss will also taint the GOP, maybe more than a victory, unless he’s vomited out.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:50 amA Trump nomination hurts the GOP long term. Don’t fool yourself Patterico. Remember Todd Akins? He didn’t get elected. He was roundly denounced by ALL Republicans. He’s STILL brought up as the prime example of what a Republican stands for.
Truth is, the damage to the GOP was done long ago through years and years of messaging. A Trump election will do no more harm to the GOP brand than has already occurred.
I don’t think I’ll vote for Trump either, but I can accept the reality of the situation.
Dejectedhead (c21a67) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:56 amSame sh!t, different day. The election of Mrs. Bill Clinton is the inevitable result, and apparently, that’s acceptable to some.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:14 amO.K., I fainted! Now that I have recovered, I want to entertain myself, before reading any further, with the question; “what could have been said, and who said it?” I now take pause to think.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:18 amI’m in that boat with you, Patrick, just 130 or so miles south.
I know why Trumpers get their tighty whities twisted into a knot. They don’t give a damn about your voting situation. All they care about is whether or not that you join their band wagon, or else you’re a traitor. Like I’ve said before, the normal Trumper isn’t looking for a President, they’re looking for revenge.
Bill H (576c5e) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:19 amO.k., it was easy to shield my eyes after my comment. I cannot think of a single argument. So either this unknown person is extremely original, or P is, once again, displaying his dry sense of humor – I have seen that before!
And yep, I guess that was an easy call for the regulars, but prolly a lucky one for me. Whew.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:28 ami’m more comfortable with Mr. Trump than I am with stinkypig cause of how nasty she is
plus Mr. Trump will do more better policies
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:29 amThe Clinton’s have taken enough from America. Show me another way to stop the corruption and lawlessness the Clinton’s and Obama have infected our government with.
crazy (d3b449) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:32 amWhile I do not disagree with you, Ted Cruz does, indeed, disagree with you.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:32 amP, the example part, not the utopian part.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:34 amWay OT, can you guys believe that I turned down a ticket from my sister to attend last night’s UT/ND game? I did. I deserved to miss such a thrilling game.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:37 amNot to sound insensitive, but it seems to me that we are facing a choice similar to that of someone who has a very aggressively-metastazing form of cancer, and the binary folks are insisting that we have one of two options:
[Dem candidate] Face a very harrowing and debilitating form of radiation treatment in the hopes that we survive it, the cancer goes away, and we can start on the mend, knowing full well that we might die from the treatment along the way.
[GOP candidate] Try some unproven mixture of herbal medicine and faith healing that has some very passionate advocates but appears on the surface to be just a bunch of cleverly-marketed bunkum. There’s an outside chance it might work, but the flip side is that we might be wasting time in which we can truly treat the disease and by the time we realize that we have been suckered it will be too late to do anything about it other than plan the memorial service.
JVW (f97acd) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:47 amAccording to Trump supporters, politics is always a BINARY CHOICE.
We know the GOP primary came down to a race between Trump and Cruz, with the establishment Republicans deciding to support Trump in order to stop Cruz. Thus, if politics really is a binary choice, then voting for anyone but Cruz in the primaries was a vote for Trump – and everyone here should accept that and own it because politics is always a BINARY CHOICE.
In other words, according to Trump logic, if you did not vote for Cruz then you are solely and eternally responsible for Trump. There can be no other explanation for not voting for Cruz because politics is always a BINARY CHOICE.
Further, Trump is the easiest opponent for Hillary. If you voted for Trump in the primaries, then you are responsible for Hillary getting elected. Because politics is a BINARY CHOICE.
DRJ (15874d) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:50 amThis election should not be seen as Clinton v. Trump, it should be viewed as a racial and demographics issue.
I won’t get into the specifics, or certain heads around here might explode.
But like a dead white male once said, “Circumspice”.
I like this remark (paraphrased), given a while back in the California State Legislature…
LEFTIST MEXICAN LEGISLATOR (to White Conservative Legislator): The thing it boils down to is, if I win, I get to take your money. If you win, you get to keep your money. There doesn’t exist an outcome where if you win, you get to take MY money.
hunson abedeer (80144e) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:51 amI know someone who paid $1300 for 2 tickets to that game, felipe.
DRJ (15874d) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:52 amConservatives have a long history of going all sulky and not showing up.
Liberals always, always, always show up.
Fred Z (b0a041) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:02 am
Ain’t this the truth. It also backs P’s argument about his vote in Ca. Even if every single R in Ca votes for Trump, the State still goes to her lowness. This ain’t Thermopylae, the Alamo, etc. No one is going to remember you (there) as a hero. Each man’s duty is the king’s, but each man’s soul is his own. How much less is his duty to a party that left him? How much more important to him, his soul?
felipe (023cc9) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:52 amDRJ, good to hear you making your common sense.
Steve57 (747e61) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:54 amThey certainly got their monies worth, DRJ!
felipe (023cc9) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:55 amharvardtrash ted can still pull this out cause of he can get it to where everyone just have to do voture conshuns on Mr. Trump but he’s not raising enough money to get his message out he’s more worried about hanging on to his senate seat
this is why I think Mr. Trump is the best choice for beating that pig
thoughts?
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:04 pmShocker: Cristoph thinks it’s really a racial issue.
Leviticus (088bb3) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:17 pmIt’s called the Republican Party. Not the Conservative Party.
Conservatives have never worked and played well with others.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:29 pmExhibit A: Tedtoo of Fantasy Island, Texas.
Bigger shocker: The post I made was a critique of Patterico’s bad ideas rather than race this time, but Leviticus is being a pissy mod and won’t let you read it.
Dystopia Max (76803a) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:31 pmNope. I’m out until this craze blows over.
You have it backwards.
The ideology craze is over. Pragmatism is in.
Shout “Reagan” this cycle and watch voters yawn. Tedtoo learned that the hard way. It doesn’t work anymore. He’s dead. And so is the modern conservative movement: born, 1964: died, 2016.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:42 pmAn official write-in campaign by a nationally known and credible GOP candidate might give Patterico another choice. Might even win in California as Hillary’s “support” is largely anti-Trump.
Any state that comes out of Hillary’s column is a win.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:45 pma Trump victory will taint the GOP long-term and render the idea of limited government dead
this is too linear the real whirl does not work like this
plus it’s very pessimism
let’s not think this way
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:45 pmIf I stay home, is it a vote for Hillary or a vote for Trump?
I live in California, in Maxine Water’s district, and a Democrat will win every partisan race on my ballot.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:47 pmIt’s called the Republican Party. Not the Conservative Party.
Well, it’s gone from the Stupid Party to the Imperial Moron’s Party.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:48 pmMy last two posts on this disappeared, let’s see if removing the url disables auto-mod:
Dystopia Max (76803a) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:52 pmAha, looks like it did. Go search for M. Moldbug’s ‘Unqualified Reservations’ for the blog post, note that he saw, analyzed, and UTTERLY DESTROYED the ‘limited government’ fungal idea long before it had the time to take over his brain. Pat’s skull is already half fungal matter, but you can save yourselves!
Dystopia Max (76803a) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:54 pmKevin M (25bbee) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:45 pm
That’s pretty hard. California has real Democrats.
First, support for Trump would have to collapse in California, so that he’d be coming in third or lower in the polls in California. Then you could say:
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:13 pmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCj8JhrDCB8&feature=youtu.be
mg (31009b) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:17 pmNot voting for Trump – you S-U-C-K
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/5/2016 @ 12:47 pm
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:20 pmThe real limitations on our government presume a legislature that is willing to confront the executive. But the GOPe has foresworn any attempt at disciplining the executive. Continuing resolutions and omnibus bills are a form of unilateral disarmament by the legislature when the executive is willing to veto everything, and the legislature is unwilling to “shut down” the government in response. Our freedoms were thrown away by the GOPe over the last four years. It didn’t even amount to a whimper. The whole thing was done right before our eyes.
Trump is the result.
The hope that the judiciary can protect us is obviously foolish. Particularly if there is no real pushback from the legislative branch.
We have become the laughing stock of the world as Obama prances around pretending he’s accomplished something. But Obama was too strong by any measure for the weaklings we elected to the Congress.
BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:26 pmGoldwater didn’t taint the GOP, but it helped that a lot of Republicans rejected him during the 1964 election, and that his people really didn’t dominate the GOP.
Much later, in 1980, people didn’t really associate Reagan with Goldwater – still Reagan had something to overcome. It was possible because he wasn’t that extreme, or extreme at all.
The Republican Party also, more or less rejected Nixon after he was president. I mean, nothing was a continuation of Nixon.
Their last two presidential nominees were Ford and Eisenhower in a way.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:29 pm“. . . we face a binary choice.”
No. The choice is not binary. One can vote for any candidate or even write one in.
The result, however, will be binary.
T (86f9b8) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:30 pmLiberals aand minorities run democrat party. Populists now run republican party. Conservatives run their mouths! Nixons southern strategy was to get social conservative populists votes that the wealthy and conservatives could control. you no longer can control. Vote trump or you will never win the white house again.
not lying ted (5ce0bd) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:32 pmBobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:26 pm
We have continuing resolutions and omnibus bills beause we have an annual federal budget. Get rid of the federal budget. Tie every appropriation to a source of money, which may include borrowing, and make apprpriations for varying lengths of time.
The only thing the constitution requires is that a military appropriation cannot be made for a longer term than two years.
The federal (and state) budget(s) were a terrible innovation of the progressives in the first part of the Twentieth Century. I don’t beleive they do any good. They stop necessary spending, and they cause wasting of money.
.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:36 pmYou don’t need to vote, you need to move.
Rev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:43 pm#37 DRJ,
You continue to re-litigate the primaries even though they’re over.
But the choice now is Trump VS Hillary.
There isn’t a realistic third box you can check on the ballot if you’re a Cruz supporter who wishes that someone not named Trump were the nominee.
In other words, the notion that it’s not officially a binary choice simply because Joe Six Pack of the Constipation Party will be on your ballot isn’t really in the spirit of things.
In reality, either Trump or Hillary will become the next President.
Ironically, you guys in Texas have the most to lose because over time the left wing war on federalism will eventually erode Texas.
And eventually one day Texas will be spelled T-e-x-a-c-h-u-s-e-t-t-s.
Ultimately, when you’re voting for President, you’re voting for the “direction” of the entire federal apparatus.
So people in Texas can say, “All that federal stufff is just in Warshington Deeee Ceeee.”
Of course it is, … but only until the long arm of federal powers finally reaches into your backyard.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:49 pmSammy, the use of all-encompassing omnibus budgets and continuing resolutions remove all hope of disciplining the executive. Which, of course, is the whole point. Obama presents the GOPe with a binary choice, either give him everything he wants, or nothing, meaning the government is shut down. How about a budget that cuts the DoJ by 60% with an understanding that they might get a few more pennies next year if they find it within themselves to prosecute administration officials who necessarily take the 5th when testifying before Congress. Or prosecute DoJ operatives who arrange for Mexican drug cartels to get automatic weapons. The linkages between these distant field operatives and the White House might be much closer than we imagine, but we won’t know until a few of these crooks are facing some hard time and begin to consider their options.
BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:52 pmRev. Hoagie® (785e38) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:43 pm
The gerrymanderers could chase after him, and put him back into Maxine Waters’ district in 2022. All urban black disticts lose population – they have to expand territory to survive, because people vote with their feet, although they won’t vote for a Republican.
And if they don’t lose population, because conditions get better, because there was a Republican mayor or a dissident Democrat or a Governor or something, then we have the plague of “gentrification” – at least it’s a plague to the politicians. It is a problem, but a much betterproblem to have than the alternative and it could be alleviated by changes in zoning. I mean, more affluent neighborhoods need more commercial retail space. As for housing – people may manage to hang on.
The next redistricting is maybe too far to look ahead anyway. She’s getting on in years – she might retire by then, and be succeeded by somebody, well, worse.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:57 pmYou can’t taint stupid.
gbear (defc54) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:11 pmBobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/5/2016 @ 1:52 pm
What it does is it means everything gets decided behind closed doors, and all power flows to the floor leaders of the parties and the Speaker. You don’t want omnibus bills.
Or for 60% of the year. They did that too. It’s called a continuing resolution that goes onto until a date a month or two or three ahead and every one of them has riders. Harry Reid liked them and he liked budget crisis, and s did Bill Clinton actually.
It wasn’t just, or mainly, Obama who presented Republican leaders with binary choices – it was Democrats in Congress. And some Republicans wouldn’t compromise, and so they had to compromise with the Democrats, and it was much harder to peel off a few Democratic votes. Trying to pass things with a majority of the Republican caucusa voting for it actually didn’t work. They could sometimes pass things in the House, but things which never passed the Senate. And some of these were just bills nobody ever seriously wanted to become law, nor did they think it had the remotest possibility of becoming law in that Congress, like a repeal of Obamacare with nothing to replace it.
Anyway if you want to put pressure on a president cut off money from soemthing he wants, and you don’t or don’t care much about, not from something you both want or that you want more than he does.
They started to get on the right track with the last budget shutdown, voting special bills for something to do with the military and for the parks.
But anyway, there’s no reason that the thing where money is cut off has to be related to the issue at hand. What it should NOT be, is out of proportion to the goal.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:13 pmgbear (defc54) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:11 pm
the Republican party is getting in danger of getting tainted in the eyes of a higher percentage of the voting public than it already is. It can be avoided by a discernable rejection of Donald Trump.
What would suitthe Democrats most is a Republican Party that can never get less than 20% or even 30% of the vote but never get more than 50%.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:16 pmI live in Massachusetts so wtf do I care?
mg (31009b) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:20 pmI am proud that I do care.
@51. Well, it’s gone from the Stupid Party to the Imperial Moron’s Party.
It’s just gone. Period.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:35 pmMr. Trump needs to win the binary choice for so that pig doesn’t get to do her partial birth judges all up in the court
if it helps i can make a flow chart with visio
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:37 pmCruz Supporter
Texas should secede while there is still time
steveg (5508fb) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:40 pmRead this and you suddenly realize none of it matters
http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf
Bald01 (25839a) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:43 pmTrump won’t win Illinois either. But I will vote for him. Why? The only chance we have for a conservative to be appointed to the SC is if Trump wins. If Hillary wins expect a combination of Angel Davis-Bill Ayres-Mumia Abu Jamal as your next SC justice. There is no guarantee that Trump will do the right thing but he is our only chance. I don’t like Trump either but that is my throught process.
Ipso Fatso (7e1c8e) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:44 pmI think California should secede as well, not to save itself, but for the good of the rest of the nation
steveg (5508fb) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:47 pmMuch later, in 1980, people didn’t really associate Reagan with Goldwater
Except they did. And his team certainly did. Goldwater scared people. So did Reagan until the debates. And he had the benefit of good timing from a bad era. Reagan sold conservatism with the superficial smile, not the Tedtoo scowl. Reagan drew people into his big tent while Tedtoo repelled them from his revival tent.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:48 pm@72- Texas should secede while there is still time
Indeed. Become America’s Poland.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:49 pmi’m having a really hard time separating Mel Gibson the man from his art
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:49 pmoh. ok i figured it out it was really easy actually
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/5/2016 @ 2:49 pm“the Republican party is getting in danger of getting tainted in the eyes of a higher percentage of the voting public than it already is. It can be avoided by a discernable rejection of Donald Trump.”
I reject that premise.
I believe there are more “silent majority” voters that have been ignored, or worse taken advantage of by the GOP apparatus, eg: the Tea Party. That apparatus has “tainted” the party to the point that Trump is the candidate.
‘
gbear (defc54) — 9/5/2016 @ 3:13 pmThe only reason the GOP will last longer than this November is because Trump was the nominee. They were slated for Whigdom this election and Trump had to come along and ruin it. It should be apparent to anyone with a triple digit iq that a nationalist third party candidate was gonna get more votes than Jeb or whatever Merkel-con you nominated.
So there’s the fallacy in your “Trump cause long term GOP damage”. There was no long term GOP and probably still isn’t a long term GOP. Trump bought you a few more years of GOP decline before the merciful end.
Jcurtis (fb3269) — 9/5/2016 @ 3:20 pmjeb lol
happyfeet (28a91b) — 9/5/2016 @ 3:27 pmImagine granny grifter choking on her lies… what will the no trumpers do?
mg (31009b) — 9/5/2016 @ 3:34 pm“Bigger shocker: The post I [hunson abedeer] made was a critique of Patterico’s bad ideas rather than race this time, but Leviticus is being a pissy mod and won’t let you read it.”
– Dystopia Max/hunson abedeer/Christoph
Could you at least try to stick to one handle per thread? I mean, everyone knows it’s you, but it’s pretty embarrassing the way you switch it up like you’re some kinda spy or something.
Leviticus (611108) — 9/5/2016 @ 3:48 pm“Plus, y’all need to understand.
I live in California.
California will go for Hillary. Period.
Period.”
This is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Also, you might ponder the reasons for your statement, and understand that a Hillary presidency will make the whole country like California, Her immigration plan will turn every state blue, and the Republican party will never win another election.
What you are doing is putting the Republican party before the country in an empty act of martyrdom for a vision of America that died 50 years ago. Saint Ronald Reagan, 35 years ago with a landslide mandate was unable to cut so much as the Department of Education, which 35 years later has its own SWAT team. And yet you think if only teddy bear Cruz had been nominated, the seas of government would subside and the land would be restored. And that somehow, even after another term of fundamental transformation, the anointed one can still return and bring America back to its former glory.
You’re living in a fantasy world, every bit as blind to reality as the most die hard progressive dreaming their way to utopia.
As someone up thread said, you don’t have a binary choice, but the reality is there is a binary result of this election. Either a man who loves America will be president, that will do what he thinks will restore her even if it isn’t 100% what YOU think is the best way to do it, or you will get a worn out woman that wants to continue down the path of transforming America into a borderless, globalist, progressive paradise with no common culture, national pride, cohesive foreign policy vision, rational economic plan, leaving us with NO hope of preserving any part of the founding philosophy for our posterity.
Still, I suppose that is an acceptable outcome to avoid any possibility of getting any Trump taint on your snow white robe.
God help us.
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 3:57 pmIn short, you can help elect a president that will at least have the hope of stopping the bleeding and the possibility of restoring some national pride, or you can keep bashing Trump, publicly declaring voting for him is beneath any principled person, and look forward to becoming Venezuela.
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 4:15 pm85
California’s immigration policies are already infecting the mainland USA.
The last several years, something like 5 million Californians (many natives) have left the state due to taxes, overly restrictive business regulations, impossible EPA regulations, political correctness, etc., and have immigrated to Texas.
Please stop sending your rejects here! Also, please stop sending your businesses here. We don’t need them. Texas is doing great, thank you very much, and we don’t need any more CaliCrazies here.
I understand its almost impossible to make a living in California unless you work for the Gubment or unless you’re a movie star or something other than normal working person.
But instead of leaving, why don’t you people vote out the liberals and put in a Gubment that works?
PTS (ce7fc3) — 9/5/2016 @ 4:25 pmIs Maudie’s new rental jet truly dubbed “The Liar Flyer”?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 4:31 pmPTS,
Once Texas finally apologizes for LBJ, then we can talk. (LOL)
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:01 pmbut that press will keep her honest:
https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/772896809001693184
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:04 pmPatterico:
So, you’re more concerned with “tainting the GOP” than saving our country? The GOP is already tainted, almost beyond salvaging. There is no way we survive a Hillary presidency after 8 years of Obama. Voting for Trump is a tactical decision that saves us to fight another day. He does not control the media and the levers of government like the Clinton Cartel does. He will be much easier to keep in the box. Pull your head out, brother!
PaddyO' (a8e631) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:10 pmPat believes he can accurately gauge some long term impact on the GOP of a Trump victory AND that it outweighs the long term impact on the country of Hillary locking in a liberal federal judiciary, making typical lunatic appointments to EPA, State, Justice etc., allowing Iran to continue unabated toward nuclear tipped ICBM’s with no reinstatement of sanctions etc. Two extremely dubious propositions. But that’s his story and he’s sticking to it. And for that matter, he also has to believe he can accurately gauge the impact of a Trump loss, i.e., why won’t the GOP turn to a Bush/Kasich type in 2020 (or maybe he hasn’t thought about that).
I would just like the Never Trumpers to stop ridiculously trying to convince me that the minute Trump takes office, he will gleefully appoint another Sotomayor to SCOTUS, announce we have to keep Obama’s executive order legalizing millions of illegals, unveil anti-fracking regulations, start pressuring local school districts around the country to allow males in the girls bathrooms, put another lunatic in at Justice who will continue the war on the nation’s police etc.
Gerald A (76f251) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:13 pmDue to our primary system here in CA (thanks Arnold!) we have two Democrats running for one Senate seat.
I predict our host will come around in 2020 and vote for Trump.
steveg (5508fb) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:18 pmIt’d be better if any of my previous predictions had ever come true, but look at this as one of those stock market crash newsletters where the guy predicts a crash every year and is right at some point every 3-7 years
The Little Old Lady From PasadenaThe Lyin’ Old Lady From ArkansasThe Lyin’ Old Lady From Arkansas
(Go Granny, go, Granny, go, Granny, go)
She’s been gettin’ away with murder, she’s above the law
(Go Granny, go, Granny, go, Granny, go)
The Feebs are lame and so’s that AG Lynch
She had an “R” by her name she’d be in teh pinch
And ev’rybody’s sayin’ just apply the law to
The Lyin’ Old Lady From Arkansas
She lies real bad, she’s a crook, it’s true
She don’t belong on Pennsylvania Avenue
It’s The Lyin’ Old Lady From Arkansas
You can spot her on the street, just look for cankles
(Go Granny, go, Granny, go, Granny, go)
She gets elected better grab your ankles
(Go Granny, go, Granny, go, Granny, go)
She’s gonna get caught now, sooner or later,
I’m hopin’ it’s down South so they can feed the ‘gators
And ev’rybody’s sayin’ just apply the law
The Lyin’ Old Lady From Arkansas
She lies real bad, she’s a crook, it’s true
She don’t belong on Pennsylvania Avenue
It’s The Lyin’ Old Lady From Arkansas!!
You’ll see her all the time, just lookin’ bug-eyed
(Go Granny, go, Granny, go, Granny, go)
With her sidekick Huma standin’ there by her side
(Go Granny, go, Granny, go, Granny, go)
They share the same bed, no time for coolin’ their jets
they bumpin’ them uglies, give as good as they get
And ev’rybody’s sayin’ just apply the law to
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:24 pmThe Lyin’ Old Lady From Arkansas
She lies real bad, she’s a crook, it’s true
She don’t belong on Pennsylvania Avenue
It’s The Lyin’ Old Lady From Arkansas!
@ Gerald A (#92), who wrote:
That’s not my argument. I would agree with you, in fact, that it’s unlikely that Trump would do those particular things.
But that doesn’t end the discussion. It doesn’t mean I’ll vote for Trump.
No one has a clue what Trump would do in office, certainly including Trump. Nothing he promises now has any predictive value based on his integrity and credibility, because he has none in my evaluation.
But if I ignore what he says, and if I instead look at what he’s done throughout his career, and what he said before he somehow decided he was a Republican, his actions suggest that he would be another crony capitalist, as corrupt as the Clintons, and a statist just like her.
I also have to consider that Trump poses risks which Hillary doesn’t, at least not to the same degree. Yes, Hillary is likely to continue Obama’s feckless foreign policies, so yes, Iran will of course get its bomb, and American prestige, credibility, and military readiness will continue to erode badly. But I’m not worried that she’ll plunge us into a shooting war with the Russians or the Chinese over a perceived insult. I’m not worried that she’ll start a global trade and tariffs war that will plunge us into a worldwide depression.
See, Gerald A, even granting everything you say — and I have zero confidence in it, but even pretending I did — I still wouldn’t vote for Trump. That doesn’t mean I’m voting for Hillary, or supporting Hillary, or that I have a desire to see her win.
And while I know some who oppose Trump use hyperbolic rhetoric, I don’t think Trump is likely to gleefully nominate another Sotomayor. However, I do think he’d cave to the Dems and appoint another David Souter. It gets you to the same place in the end, in my opinion. I don’t expect to convince you to abandon yours, and you certainly have the power of positive thinking going for you.
Beldar (fa637a) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:34 pm@ T (#59): Pithy & accurate.
Beldar (fa637a) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:39 pm@ felipe & DRJ, off topic: Wasn’t that an amazing game? Astonishingly good entertainment, and not a single political intrusion into the entire thing! I felt rejuvenated when I joined the Longhorn Band, Coach Strong, and about 100,000 at DKR in standing to sing “The Eyes.” I was in LHB in 1977 and marched at the 1978 Cotton Bowl Classic, in which, alas, Heisman Trophy winner Earl Campbell was unable to keep Texas’ #1 ranking against that wiley Joe Montana and his Irish. That loss stung, and while last night didn’t make up for it, it was pretty darn sweet standing on its own. And my household, with its three UH grads and one UH current student, was also pretty jazzed about the Cougars beating Oklahoma.
I also never thought I’d choke up reading the phrase, “Fresno State declined the penalty.” But I did, last night.
Beldar (fa637a) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:46 pmwe’ll get more of this,
http://www.weaselzippers.us/293395-white-house-sends-military-vets-a-sign-of-how-much-they-are-valued/#disqus_thread
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:53 pmTwo classy coaches at the Nebraska-Fresno State game in an era where classy isn’t what typically comes to mind when we talk about football.
DRJ (15874d) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:53 pmHouston should be in the Big 12. I don’t want it to win the Big 12 but it should be in it.
DRJ (15874d) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:55 pmI would also like the Houston coach at Austin.
DRJ (15874d) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:56 pm“But I’m not worried that she’ll plunge us into a shooting war with the Russians or the Chinese over a perceived insult. ”
This is delusional. Trump is the non-interventionist, Hillary is the one rattling her saber st Russia.
Plus Hillary is planning to let a million and a half Syrian refugees into the country. You won’t have to wait for war with Russia, she’s planning on ordering in!
It’s crazy how some will strain a gnat and swallow a camel…
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:39 pmI do not know what the future holds,
But I am inclined to think arguing about Clinton vs. Trump
Is a little bit missing the forest for the trees.
Counting Obama, there have been 3 presidential candidates in a row who should never have been in serious contention to even be a nominee, let alone president.
That suggests the state of the republic is quite ill.
And I see no reason for it to get better short of Divine intervention.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:42 pmRIP Phyllis Schlafly, 92.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:42 pmActually Russia is rattling its sabres in several directions, not Clinton.
kishnevi (aef29b) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:44 pmAnd Trump wants a trade war with China.
you include head razorback in that list,
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-vekselberg-bribes-idUSKCN11B1AB
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:47 pm104.
kishnevi (aef29b) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:47 pmAnother honest woman claimed by time.
Meanwhile a bit of humor.
kishnevi (aef29b) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:48 pmA noted columnist complains the paper for which he writes is biased.
http://bipartisanreport.com/2016/09/05/paul-krugman-shreds-new-york-times-for-constant-hillary-bashing-goes-viral-fast-tweets/
what was that phrase, mene teke uparsin (sic), that comes to mind,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:52 pmTake a look at:
There’s No Such Thing As A Protest Vote
Joe (dd9c6c) — 9/5/2016 @ 6:56 pmMene mene tekel upharsin
kishnevi (aef29b) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:01 pm@ 105- you sure about that? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=k4aIIpCDsLU
And you do know a trademark isn’t really a shooting war, right? It’s kinda like the war on poverty like that…
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:03 pmSo they’re the same there. So that cancels out, leaving the other things which, you seem to agree, he probably wouldn’t do.
This is really out there, and reminds me of claims that Reagan would start the missiles flying. Also I’m not sure how to put that together with the idea that he’d be too anxious to be buddies with Putin and the Chinese – another criticism of him.
If the Dems have at least 52 Senators that’s possible (although the same scenario would be even more likely if Kasich or Bush were in there), but it’s not certain that they will. With 51 I think Trump could get someone through because of Manchin. If the GOP retains the Senate then they should do away with the Judicial filibuster. I could see Trump lobbying for that. I do not picture Bush or Kasich lobbying to end judicial filibusters.
Getting back Pat’s objection to Trump, he’s pretty much like a typical RINO, in that he’s not committed to smaller government. On spending he’d be indistinguishable from a RINO. But, leaving aside rhetorical style, there are (possibly) four major differences with the typical RINO: The border, Muslim immigration, free trade. The fourth difference is he doesn’t have any clear foreign policy as far as I can tell.
The first two differences are positives. The third is not. Finally, on foreign policy, it would probably end up being shaped largely by whoever advises him. John Bolton has been mentioned there, which is very positive.
So the question is, if Kasich were the nominee, would all these folks be Never Kasichers? I don’t think so.
Gerald A (76f251) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:03 pmTradewar, not trademark, you miserable spell check Nazi…
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:05 pmI also never thought I’d choke up reading the phrase, “Fresno State declined the penalty.” But I did, last night.
Beldar (fa637a) — 9/5/2016 @ 5:46 pm
That brought a tear to my eye. Pure class.
felipe (023cc9) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:07 pm114.
kishnevi (aef29b) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:12 pmNo no, Christoph is the only Nazi here.
jude wanniski following milton friedman’s work, concluded that the very suggestion of the smoot hawley tariff, tanked the markets, the problem is china already has a high tariff wall, which the tpp is supposed to be an answer, but would it be?
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:14 pmYou don’t know my spellchecker. It’s just itching to invade pole dancer…
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:21 pmSmooth-Hawley debunked. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2178473/posts
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:22 pmautocorrect is dark magic, I have rarely seen any good use for it,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:22 pmThe binary choice argument has always been the GOPe’s go to rationale. I take considerable delight in the role reversal, though I am not convinced.
It is the shortsightedness of the binary model that created this mess in the first place. We shouldn’t have bought into it when it was pedaled by the party elite; we shouldn’t buy into it now. It is a self-defeating reflex that has given rise to the devolution of our constitutional democracy.
To reward Shorty and the Trumphillic with my vote reinforces behavior I find repulsive. It will encourage more of it. I don’t want to see more of it. To the contrary. I see cults of personality as deeply disturbing and, I might add, fundamentally anti-American (That is the core of the “New York Values” critique, though it could just as fairly be termed “Hollywood Values.”) What I want is to see fundamental reform along Constitutional lines and I will do what I think is necessary to get it. That includes voting for the detestable stinkypig if I believe it creates a long-run strategic advantage for the constitutionally conservative wing of my party, the Republican Party.
Despite the provenance of the critique, the comments above about our judiciary granting itself sovereign power is a legitimate and troubling one.
ThOR (c9324e) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:23 pmEverything Schlafly said the ERA would lead to has happened. It just took longer for judges to write it into the Constitution’s margins.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:25 pmSmooth-Hawley debunked.
Can’t wait until Trump rebunks it.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:26 pmMore on tariffs: http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/06/26/american-presidents-washington-lincoln-agree-donald-trump-trade/
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:27 pmIt’s pretty amazing reading Gerald, Haiku, and this ‘Cruz’ Supporter tell everyone they disagree with what we really are thinking. It probably isn’t possible to be less convincing.
As usual, the die hard republicans pound their fists and show us what losing looks like. What are you guys offering conservatives? Nothing. Just insults and demands for loyalty. You can’t sneer your way to cooperation, and you can’t rebuild the bridge the RINOs have burned down so many times over.
I don’t trust you guys. It’s really sad that the GOP can’t put forward a better candidate than Hillary, but watching Haiku pee himself in fear of Hillary while playing ‘hear no evil’ about Trump is exactly how tyrants have come into power throughout modern history.
Have a baseline. If someone isn’t better than baseline, refuse to support them. Otherwise, it’s a race to the bottom. When, not if, Trump loses, blame the partisans who have been so obsessed with hating the other party that they refused to have any standards for their own. That is the sole reason either Hillary or Trump were nominated.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:31 pmwell we’re back over macho grande, with the difference that many think an official who took a political proscription all the way to the supreme court, who framed a innocent man, for a terrorist assassination, the first in more than 30 years, is a trustworthy figure,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:35 pmI know hf has taken some flack for the ongoing “peed pantsuit” series of posts, but listening to those two coughing fits today made me think he may be onto something… I know if I coughed solid for two minutes I might just void my bladder out of sympathetic response… or maybe just let a lung biscuit fly..
If this was the old days, I’d wonder if she was freebasing, or more recently smoking crack, or cooking oxy. Maybe she is coughing out of solidarity with the 83,000 people who have been put out of business in the coal mining regions… regions with no other jobs to be had
steveg (5508fb) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:38 pmwell mike castle, who until recently was lobbying for al jazeera, had a circumspect view of the first amendment, and was as dubious on a few others,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:39 pmWhat are you guys offering conservatives?
The opportunity to stop being the party parasites.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:43 pmRIP Hugh O’Brian. 91. Pittsburgh born.
TV’s Wyatt Earp.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:44 pmWhat a delightful logical inversion: advocates of small government are the “parasites.”
It’s Obamaesque!
At least I have the consolation of sharing my world view with the parasitic President Reagan and Speaker Gingrich. What a pair of leaches!
Of course, I prefer to think we are the Party’s conscience.
ThOR (c9324e) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:54 pmHow about that! Mister Fung
steveg (5508fb) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:56 pmSee what I mean? Losers proud to lose as hard as they can.
Trump has one field office in Florida. Hillary has more than fifty. Trump doesn’t want to win, and his defense force are going to go down in history as fools. He had the weakest nomination win of any Republican in modern history, unable to win until very late, and then destroying any chance at party unification because he wants Cruz to be his quisling instead of his partner. Trump’s convention performance was that of a weak man, not a leader.
Trump’s moderate Republican defense force are exactly what he wants: quislings. And they look at those of us who aren’t his quislings with anger because they are jealous. They wish they have willpower and standards, but they don’t. They are too afraid.
Trump is too great a threat to our country and I really do want him to lose in November. He would do terrible things with our courts, as Gerald A used to say before he flip flopped. Trump would use power against dissent. He would incite riots. He would be bribed. He would lead us to wars. What do you offer me that could make me vote for Trump? That Hillary will be half as bad as Trump? That Trump demands the GOP kneel and if they don’t he will fund PACs to destroy conservatives with principles?
Trump is the political opponent of every right thinking American, period.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 7:57 pm“if I instead look at what he’s done throughout his career, and what he said before he somehow decided he was a Republican, his actions suggest that he would be another crony capitalist, as corrupt as the Clintons, and a statist just like her.”
bro…
All Trump had to do to be a successful crony capitalist was not rock the boat and maintain his current business relationships according to best practices in the fie-oh god it’s so insipid.
He chose to run for President while denouncing the same crony capitalists he had worked with before, causing real economic damage to his own net worth in the process by defying the Big Corporate Names who can and have denounced him.
Have some imagination beyond your crappy time-diddling career for once in your life.
“It’s pretty amazing reading Gerald, Haiku, and this ‘Cruz’ Supporter tell everyone they disagree with what we really are thinking. It probably isn’t possible to be less convincing.
As usual, the die hard republicans pound their fists and show us what losing looks like. What are you guys offering conservatives? Nothing. Just insults and demands for loyalty. You can’t sneer your way to cooperation, and you can’t rebuild the bridge the RINOs have burned down so many times over.”
What if we, hypothetically speaking, just insulted all the major RINOs to their faces, so badly that their influence waned to almost nothing, like John McCain, Lindsey Graham, Paul Ryan, and Mitch McConnell?
“I don’t trust you guys. It’s really sad that the GOP can’t put forward a better candidate than Hillary, but watching Haiku pee himself in fear of Hillary while playing ‘hear no evil’ about Trump is exactly how tyrants have come into power throughout modern history.”
‘Tyranny’ is now the standard expected operating procedure of the US executive branch, the Congress being too unwieldy and too easily misled/corrupted to be worth bothering with outside of a few major players like Gingrich, Huckabee, Sessions, and maybe Gowdy if he ever gets his act together. Rolling back tasty, tasty executive power is a nice idea, but failing that, if you’re getting a dictator either way, best to get one that’s on your side.
“Have a baseline. If someone isn’t better than baseline, refuse to support them. Otherwise, it’s a race to the bottom. When, not if, Trump loses, blame the partisans who have been so obsessed with hating the other party that they refused to have any standards for their own. That is the sole reason either Hillary or Trump were nominated.”
Let me put this to you as gently as possible:
WE LIVE, WORK, AND VOTE IN A DEMOCRACY, MOTHERFUCKER! THE PARTY WAS MADE FOR THE PEOPLE, NOT THE PEOPLE FOR THE PARTY! IF YOUR CRAPPY LITTLE MORALIZING PARTY PLATFORM CAN’T APPEAL TO ENOUGH AMERICAN VOTERS OR AMERICAN CANDIDATES TO DEFEAT OPEN CORRUPTION IN THE OPPOSITION PARTY OR AMONG ITS OWN MEMBERS, THEN SO MUCH THE WORSE FOR THE PLATFORM!
GO LIVE IN AN AMISH COMMUNITY IF YOU DON’T WANT TO OPERATE ON THE SAME MORAL ASSUMPTIONS THAT THE REST OF AMERICA DOES, OR BETTER YET, GET THE HELL OUT AND SEE IF ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HUMORS YOUR MORAL PRINCIPLES WITH THE BAREST OUNCE OF SOCIAL RESPECT!
Dystopia Max (76803a) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:01 pm@91. The shift from idealism to pragmatism is gaseous.
It’s like passing a bad Mexican meal — for four decades. Purging the party of conservative ideologues will take time– and time keeps taking more and more of them lately. They’ve been feeding deep on the host party since 1964. Trouble is, there’s not enough of them to start their own glee club but just enough to infest and fever the body-politik. So the temperature rises every few cycles. If they truly had the courage of their convictions, they’d start their own party.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:01 pmthe reality is the evidence of conservative success has been week over the last 20 years, welfare reform, blanc mange supreme court nominees have betrayed practically all our liberties, the so called libertarian candidate is almost as cavalier with the first and second, and perhaps third amendments, I haven’t checked,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:05 pmR.I.P. Phyllis Schlafly
Icy (1dd25d) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:08 pmthe latter has enabled the fundamental transformation, in education, they permitted the constructivist termites to plant memes in the curriculum,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:08 pm@133. You don’t get it.
It’s a win/win. Neither are conservatives. You see Americans do not want to be governed, they wish to be entertained.
It is a Dallas Vs. Maude election.
So the question you have to ask yourself is, which would you prefer to endure for four years: Hagman haggling as Tilton, Gray and Principal jiggled across your living room on a 40 inch screen or a pantsuited Bea Arthur, wagging a finger at you like your first wife from 1975, nagging you to take out the trash in the middle of the 4th quarter of Monday Night Football?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:08 pm“Trump doesn’t want to win”
Well, I hope he’s not too disappointed…
The latest Reuters-Ipsos polling shows Republican Donald Trump up or tied with Hillary Clinton in several blue states.
** Iowa – Trump 44% – Clinton 41%
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:08 pm** Maine – Trump 42% – Clinton 42%
** Michigan – Trump 42% – Clinton 41%
** New Hampshire – Trump 45% – Clinton 44%
** Ohio – Trump 46% – Clinton 43%
** Wisconsin – Trump 38% – Clinton 38%
some of the frustrations are noted here,
http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/#.V81-TGBriL4.facebook
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:09 pm“Nope. I’m out until this craze blows over.”
Good. Maybe now you can switch back to non-election posts? That’s what a number of the #neverTrump blogs did after Trump won the nomination.
I recall a saying “You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in you.”
That applies here, too. You may want to be out of the Presidential race, but the race will take place whether you want it to or not, and you’ll be effected whether you want to be or not.
“So why on God’s Green Earth would you get so twisted up about a vote (mine) that literally doesn’t matter, ”
So then why do you keep writing anti-Trump stuff? There are 49 other states, and your readers live in them.
“24. Sammy: Possibility of the election being thrown into the House of Representatives.”
There is 0% of the election being thrown into the House. That is a fantasy.
“37 & 121. According to Trump supporters, politics is always a BINARY CHOICE.”
No, not at all.
But the way the COnstitution is written, the person who gets the majority of Electoral votes is president. The consequences of that force the Presidential race to be binary.
==================
fred-2 (ce04f3) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:12 pmThis thread has the best comments I’ve seen anywhere for a long time. Darn little chest-thumping and a lot of well-reasoned position statements.
Trump is too great a threat to our country and I really do want him to lose in November
Yeah, a pragmatic, successful, free and fair market New York City capitalist is a YUGE threat to America. I do believe Miss Liberty has caught the vapors! Come save us, Lindsey Graham!
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:13 pm@133- What do you offer me that could make me vote for Trump?
The opportunity to stop being a party parasite.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:18 pmAll of the pretend Conservatives are clowns. If you are a Conservative, and I AM, the choice is easy. RODHAM is a total fuxup, a dishonest cash grabbing liar, a miserable LOSER, and clearly does not have the U.S. interests at heart. She is a dangerous loser. Trump has never displayed such tendancies. He has in fact been successful. Rodham has NEVER been successful at ANYTHING, and she is evil.
GUS (30b6bd) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:18 pmGus, what specific tendency of Hillary’s has Trump never displayed?
He’s praised our nation’s mortal enemies for their tyranny. He’s praised Hillary becoming president, even! They are of the same clique and have the same values, only Hillary is a tired, worn out, and desperate to please, while Trump is insecure and mentally ill.
Do you really believe that stuff? I guess I’m psychic then because it’s not going to be close. It’s obviously going to be a landslide. Within six months, a lot of Trump’s defenders will be pretending they never supported him.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:30 pm“133. Trump has one field office in Florida. Hillary has more than fifty. He had the weakest nomination win of any Republican in modern history, unable to win until very late …”
And yet .. and yet .. there are a few things that must be reconciled.
1) He won the primary against 16 other people, many of them strong, well-regarded candidates. He won with (we were told) no ground game and no field offices. And he spent a fraction of what the others spent. So maybe flooding a state with field offices isn’t as important as everybody thought.
2) The crowds at his speeches and rallies. How is he getting those huge crowds if nobody likes him? It seems rather unlikely that thousands of people are standing in lines for hours in the hot sun to hear somebody that they hate. And he says the same damn thing every time and they are all on youtube — so you don’t even need to go, you can just watch one on youtube. So why are they going in person?
As Rand said, “Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises.”
fred-2 (ce04f3) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:33 pmContradiction: Trump won with no ground game. Yet a ground game is neccessary to win.
Contradiction: Trump is unpopular and hated. Yet huge numbers of people go to his rallies.
I think after the baby boomers die off, that will be about about it for what many of us call the USA. (of course, since I’m one of them, “what, me worry?”)
Gone will be the links and lineage to most of the 20th Century when the USA truly was a force for good in the world, having defeated Japan Imperialism and significantly aided in the defeat of Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and so forth. The so called “greatest generation” and their descendants whose collective memories including their grandparents stretched back to the Great Depression will all be gone. Gone will be the hard work, truly tough times and values virtually embedded in the DNA of those generations.
This will be replaced by more recent memory of the USA as an interloper in countries forcing or values on them, showing our true colors as greedy capitalists and empire builders.
With this backdrop of self hatred “Millenials” face the evils of a world power run amok; Global Warming,homelessness, intolerance of the poor and needy, unfair speech, unfair pay, micro aggressions, and seemingly overwhelming evidence of racism, sexism, religious intolerance, and other slights magnified in their consciousness by exploiting politicians and media with no life perspective at all.
This will surely take permanent root and accelerate when Hillary takes office.
Another one of those “watch for what you ask” moments by allowing Hillary to have the presidency.
PTS (ce7fc3) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:35 pmOh, sorry — too long?
More concise, like happyfeet:
vote for trump he’s better than stinkypig coughalung
fred-2 (ce04f3) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:35 pmthe clinton’s have garnered more recognition than they have deserved, the question of the tikriti gang is a little more complicated, they were not hounds guarding the people from the salafi wolves, in many cases they were the wolves, same as with muammar, who wrought death and destruction in northern ireland, in israel, some say in munich, 44 years ago, but were against
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:36 pmthe likes of bin laden,
That only makes sense if you are naive about how terrible Trump would be. I don’t think Hillary could be as bad if she tried, but she actually will be trying to win reelection. She isn’t the kind of person to fundamentally transform anything. She just wants the power.
Trump is the kind of leader who rolls tanks out at his protesters. He’s the worst we could do.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:38 pmwell iraq and afghanistan, were well intentioned attempts, the latter was in part because we relied on the kingdom and pakistani agencies to determine who were our proxies, libya doesn’t fall in that category, many of these same scorpions were employed there, as in syria,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:40 pm#140- that was a great article. It’s exactly everything I’ve been writing for months now…only if I was a much better writer. He even used my Russian Roulette with a semi-auto analogy!
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:41 pmPolls showing Hillary’s numbers trending down.
The email debacle appears to be a giant black hole in her candidacy — no matter what way she tries to pivot, no matter what other topic she tries to discuss, the deadly gravity of the email black hole sucks it into oblivion so there is NOTHING BUT EMAIL.
Meanwhile, The Donald is out giving news conferences, answering questions, visiting Mexico, black churches, Hispanic communities…
Just sayin’
PTS (ce7fc3) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:42 pmIraq worked. That’s what a lot of people don’t understand. It was a success. It was a good idea except for one thing: after Bush v Gore everything is so partisan that anything a Republican was successful at must be ruined by a democrat.
Afghanistan has been a mess, but I’m not sure what success in Afghanistan is supposed to look like.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:44 pmbut it wasn’t nearly about democrats and republicans, there is a whole political and administrative class wed to the notion of the baathist mirage of secularism, pillar, the late mr. drumheller and murray, who as extensions of the old european cronyism, were unwilling to part company, of course then you have the charles freeman/joe wilson wing of wahhabi sympathizers,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:48 pm150
You miss the point. The country is already headed in that direction firmly on track toward oblivion thanks to the current moron in the White House. Obama is a disaster in all respects, and now Hillary will take over and make Obama look like a novice if she gets the chance.
If this cycle is not interrupted, then I think it will be bye bye conservatism.
PTS (ce7fc3) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:48 pm“145. Within six months, a lot of Trump’s defenders will be pretending they never supported him.”
Nope. Not at all.
We tried a nail-puller (tea party). That didn’t work.
Now we’re trying a crowbar (Trump).
If that doesn’t work, next comes the sledgehammer.
If that doesn’t work, we ask the French for tumbrel advice.
You guys don’t get it. We don’t care about Trump the man. We care about the policies and positions he states. Maybe he’s lying and he isn’t going to do those policies. If so, we’ll discard him and get somebody who will.
Trump is our TOOL, not our savior.
Heck, if JEB! has espoused those polcies & positions, we’d have gladly given him the nomination.
It’s only the #neverTrumpers who talk about cheeto Jesus and Orange Savior and worshipping Trump — making it about Trump-the-man. No Trump supporter talks that way.
fred-2 (ce04f3) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:49 pmshe wants to topple bashir, but who is likely to be in the wings, whether it’s al nusra, jund al aqsa or islamic state, they will be bad news, and she wants a quantum increase in immigration from that region, we’ve seen in paris, and molenbeek and anspach and wurzberg what that entails,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:54 pmYou mean you’re just repeating. This is the talking point that the same guys are all saying in unison, so you repeat it as though it’s wisdom.
Look at these polls. If the election were just about polls, Hillary has this in the bag.
But it’s about turnout. It’s about ground game. When Trump’s campaign operation is in the news it’s because they replaced the guy running it again. Trump has failed to win over the support of folks like the Koch brothers. Trump has failed to establish the kind of ground operation that past GOP candidates had. On election day, Trump will claim he has a 50 state operation because the only trick in his book is to get attention on national media (often by being shocking). He won’t have the organization, and the downticket guys will be saving themselves, often by distancing themselves from Trump.
All the wailing about Hillary misses this. She won the election the moment Cruz lost the primary. Trump acts like he doesn’t mind if Hillary wins. He has to win swing states that the GOP has lost the last two elections, and he’s not building an operation in any of them. Trump has said Hillary would make a great president, and he acts like he wants her to win. If it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck…
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:55 pmUm, fred-2? You aren’t reading comments here, and many other places, when you say that no Trump supporter supports “Trump the man.”
Have a nice evening.
Simon Jester (cff76b) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:55 pmAnd I forgot to mention another point. Hillary isn’t out there, just as PTS says. She’s not giving press conferences or meeting with foreign leaders. I think her health is badly deteriorated and she is saving what she has left for the debates.
And she’s still beating the snot out of Trump. Trump’s fans see he’s in the margin of error on a couple of suspicious polls and insist it’s not over, and by all means I guess they might as well cling to that. But we all know who is going to win. That’s the real reason Trump isn’t investing in his own victory. He knows.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 8:57 pmno she’s not, but there is a whole industry of media, banking, insurance, name any segment outside of firearms and energy, that are committed to her, and not just in this country,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:00 pmPresident Reagan and Speaker Gingrich. What a pair of leaches!
Indeed.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:01 pmlike le chiffre, they are all in, they can’t pull back now, it’s life and death, and not in a metaphorical sense,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:01 pmnewt is an interesting character, like boris johnson across the pond, he has flaws, but he has great gifts as well, like newt he was stabbed in the back, like guiliani, he was slandered by some of the same parties that have and continue to go after trump,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:04 pm“That only makes sense if you are naive about how terrible Trump would be. I don’t think Hillary could be as bad if she tried, but she actually will be trying to win reelection. She isn’t the kind of person to fundamentally transform anything. She just wants the power.”
“Trump is the kind of leader who rolls tanks out at his protesters. He’s the worst we could do.”
– Dustin
This is the other reason to vote for Clinton – and very well stated. A protest vote for Johnson or Cruz isn’t enough.
ThOR (c9324e) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:06 pm@165. “Newt Gingrich, Moon President…”
Thank you, Saturday Night Live, 2012
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:08 pmright, she watched while neda sultan was gunned down in the streets and said nothing, in fact that was a sign to proceed,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:09 pmon her part, they think the sepah are a proper trading partner, as it is with the magnates of the gulf,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:11 pmnarciso @140, Publius of Claremont.org makes some good points. I particularly like his use of the Washington Generals to characterize our GOPe majorities. Paid to lose and loving it. I don’t agree that all of us only pretend to be concerned about the rapid decline of our country. I certainly don’t see it that way, nor did Harold Rood (Kingdoms of the Blind) who once was a stalwart at Claremont. Nor does Martin van Creveld (Pussycats) in his short little book. Anyone who can look out on the world and not be concerned about the present state of affairs is probably singing “You’ve Got a Friend” at a mass grave somewhere in France. Duterte freely insults Obama, and I can only smile as it looks like not all of those who used to be our allies are going to dive in the ditch with us. I’m hopeful that Japan will be able to rearm quickly enough to protect herself, and better yet that Taiwan, South Korea and Japan can form a new alliance that will fill the void that is our military.
My only problem is that I had open heart surgery ten days ago, and it will be some time before I can operate my 1911 1A without tearing my chest apart. And strangely enough, I have been pleased with Trump’s recent efforts. His ten point plan for immigration is substantive and realistic. So I will allow myself to hope that there is an alternative and perhaps a brighter future. Certainly modern medical practices are beyond miracles.
BobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:11 pmUm Simon, YOU aren’t reading comments, you’re projecting. No Trump supporters are promoting the charactor of Trump, unless maybe supporting his anti PC style, or defending him against slanderous untruthful poo flinging. We talk about his policies. 98% of the comments are Trumpers talking about what he will do and nevertrumpers saying no he won’t, he’s lying about doing that stuff. If anyone has reverence for their man, its the Cruzers that believe he is the anointed one.
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:12 pmseriously this is so much feltercarp, a substitution from an old sci fi show, much better than the revamp, which was mostly morally indistinguishable carp,
narciso (732bc0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:13 pmDustin, I think Trump terrifies you so much only because you have become so feminised a real, confident man frightens and confuses you. You like Hillary because she is a kindred spirit; a dishonest old woman.
LBascom (09d352) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:25 pmOh good Lord above.
Simon Jester (cff76b) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:27 pm“Each day it becomes easier to know what we ought to despise: what modern man admires and journalism praises.”
— Nicolas Gomez Davila
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:38 pmBest wishes, Bob Stewart!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:39 pmHillary Clinton puts the hack in political hack!
http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/driveby/just_another_political_ha.php
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:43 pmThanks Colonel! I had hoped that we had moved on past the Trump topic, particularly since patient entertainment is nothing but CNN and MSNBC … etc. … and even on mute the media comes across as buffoons of the lowest order. Did you notice that 540,000 40′ containers full of cargo are stranded in the Hanjin bankruptcy? The Black Swans are struggling into the air.
(Not taking Nitro now, but is was effective in the moments after the heart attack. Support your paramedics!)
NitroBobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/5/2016 @ 9:50 pm@ BobStewartatHome (#170): Prayers in route for your recovery.
Beldar (fa637a) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:22 pmWhat the Col.said, Bob StewartatHome.
mg (31009b) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:23 pmDustin/Simon/2016
mg (31009b) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:24 pm@ LBascom (#171), who wrote:
No, actually, you talk about things and people that you hate and blame, and that he tells you he hates and blames too, and when he tells you he will make everything great again, you accept that at face value. The average Trump voter knows and cares almost nothing about policy, as best I can tell from reading Trump supporters’ comments on the internet. But they do have a lot of passion about the things and people whom they hate.
The thing is, there are indeed important policy matters implicated by some (not all) of the things and people Trump and the Trumpkins rail against.
But he believes in nothing — has no policy but Trump, no value but Trump, no loyalty but to Trump. To impute policies to Donald Trump is to credit him width depth that he not only lacks, but that he — and most Trumpkins — regularly ridicule.
Beldar (fa637a) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:27 pmBob Stewart, hang in there. And there is a brighter future. America is a special, great place. We are this way because we’re an independent people, not because of anything from our government. We have had it a lot worse than what we have today and come out fine, and we’re going to do it again and then probably again and again.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:29 pmIt’s really interesting that this is what you came up with. Please carry on rallying around your big strong man who is going to save you via his big strong government.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:33 pmThanks Beldar, mg and Dustin.
NitroBobStewartatHome (f2b3a5) — 9/5/2016 @ 10:55 pmBob: best wishes and speedy recovery.
Internet nonsense is one thing. People are quite another.
When I hear about commenters with genuine troubles, all the differences go away. Prayers and hopeful thoughts remain.
Simon Jester (cff76b) — 9/5/2016 @ 11:26 pmYou don’t need to vote, you need to move.
It’s Maxine’s district due to gerrymander. But there’s not a lot of difference anywhere near here. And I like the climate, I like the people (mostly) and I like the many many things available without going far. The things that REALLY bother me (e.g. NIMBYs, the self-righteous, yap dogs …) are everywhere.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/6/2016 @ 12:28 amWhen I hear about commenters with genuine troubles, all the differences go away. Prayers and hopeful thoughts remain.
mg (31009b) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:43 amTruer words have never been spoken, Simon.
@ LBascom, 171 and 173:
What you mean to say, I think, is “talking about what you think he will do.” Or better yet, “talking about what you hope he will do.” Because you don’t know, and you have no reasonable basis on which to form a supposition. He has no office-holding history to enlighten us on how well he lives up to his word once elected, and what political history he does have (as a contributor, for example) would seem to suggest that he will be inconsistent at best, and fashionably liberal at worst. If you are so disgusted with/outraged by Clinton that you want to take a gamble on Trump, on the theory that he can’t possibly be worse — well, I won’t join the gamble, but I understand the reasoning. But let’s be precise with our words here. A gamble is what it is, and all that it is. You — don’t — know.
Oh, dear. I appear to have got the wrong comment. I thought I was addressing LBascom, not Ezekiel Bulver.
Demosthenes (09f714) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:48 amOn the contrary, I have always understood that to be true of most Trump voters. My primary counterargument has consistently been that his history (and more recently, his flip-floppery on the campaign trail) gives you no reason for hoping he’s serious about his policies. Well, that, and also that — because he can’t win — you’ll never have a chance to find out anyway.
That’s funny. No doubt he thinks the same thing about you.
Then perhaps you shouldn’t be so easy to pigeonhole. “Donald Trump is the only one even talking about this!” is not a far cry from “Donald Trump is the only one who can, or will, do something about this!” Which is the attitude that Never-Trumpers are mocking. And don’t fool yourself that you aren’t voting for “Trump-the-man.” You are. Every vain, shallow, ignorant, bullying, cronyist cell of his body. Not just his policies, but HIM, and the sad example of “man” he has proven to be. And yes, that should matter. Character still matters.
Which is also the best argument for not voting for Clinton, who is a liar and a fake and a fraud and a felon (albeit one who will never be convicted at this point, I’m sad to say).
Demosthenes (09f714) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:03 amDustin:
This is still my greatest fear, that the Republican electorate has somehow been manipulated by Clinton and her media allies into nominating the one man Clinton most wanted them to nominate — because he’s got a deal in place to lose. We are talking here about a woman who has no fears of manipulating her own party’s nomination process, basically in the open…and a woman whose pay-for-play scandals are blindingly obvious to everyone but (apparently) law enforcement. It’s not like you have to stretch your imagination to conceive that she might be capable of such criminal chicanery.
And Trump certainly has a long history of making shady deals with politicians if there’s something in it for him. Being able to use the Republican nomination as a personal enrichment service, by using his own companies to do everything for his campaign at above-market costs…and then being able to call himself “presidential nominee Donald Trump” for the rest of his life, which could lead to who knows what opportunities…well, if I were in his position with his (lack of) scruples, that’s an offer I don’t think I could refuse.
Demosthenes (09f714) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:15 amAfter clinton wins I can’t wait to read all the intellectual words to be written by kristol, goldberg, will and Patterico. If clinton wins will Patterico be proud to tell his kids you will never see another republican president in your lifetime? You no Trumpers are open border freaks with a pension to please the protected classes. I will most definitely blame the likes of you people.
mg (31009b) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:34 amGood for you, mg! I always admire people who decide to overcome their lifelong difficulties and enter an adult literacy program. You won’t believe what vistas of knowledge await you.
Demosthenes (09f714) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:49 amI am pretty sure that this has been pointed out before,
Clinton will have her cadre of enablers,
Trump will be as successful as a cat herder to get support from the likes of self-interested McConnell and the like.
The Friday FBI doc dump has more condemning statements be Clinton, that she didn’t remember all of the security protocols because of memory problems from her “brain injury”.
From the FBI we have learned that, at best, being as uncritical as one can,
She is an incompetent and brain injured person with memory problems.
And near half of American voters and the majority of media and celebrity want to make her president?
Houston, and the rest of America, we have a very big problem.
Romans 1, sorry to be repetitive, thinking to be wise, they became fools.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/6/2016 @ 5:20 am184- interesting how you changed “real and confident” to “big and strong”.
LBascom (09d352) — 9/6/2016 @ 5:32 amOT: Beldar, DRJ, my brother used the ticket I turned down. He sent me this short clip he recorded of the end of game celebrations. It appears that his seat (season tix) is beneath a certain celebrity.
Crappy camera work, but his excuse is that he did not want to appear to be what he actually was, a Papparazzo.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/6/2016 @ 5:34 amThat’s why I’m voting Trump. Democrats will fight tooth and nail against anything Trump does and will try to block every single one of his appointments. On a great majority of issues, they’ll find allies among Republican Senate/House members.
I’d say there’s about a 90% chance of impeachment. And with Trump having shown no loyalty to Senate Leadership, why should they bail his a** out?
Which means you’re not REALLY voting for Trump, you’re voting for a delayed Mike Pence. Not optimal, but better than Hillary.
SaveFarris (3c0029) — 9/6/2016 @ 6:03 amMD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/6/2016 @ 5:20 am
No, no. She’s only claiming a brain injury for approximately the December 2012-June 2013 period. It’s easy to miss details like that because the media reports are not all that exhaustive.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/6/2016 @ 6:48 amDemosthenes (09f714) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:15 am
Bill Clinton wouldn’t trust Donald Trump to keep such a deal, nor would he dare to offer it. And he’s the strategist. (Rush Limbaugh had the idea once that maybe he’s trying to sabotage his wife, but I don’t think so.)
He’d make the deal with Roger Stone, instead. And other people Trump might use as advisers.
I think the word you are looking for is willingness.
But you need more than willingness – you need capability, and only maybe Bill Clinton has that.
He created Super Tuesday in 1988 to help his run for president (only he couldn’t run taht year, probably because of Al Gore)
That’s the sort of thing maybe that happens in Russia, where the opposition candidates to Putin don’t want to win.
No, I think Trump wants to win, but that may not be true for all of his advisers, who anyway hold out little hope, and Trump may not be such a political talent that he knows the difference between when somebody is trying to help him and when somebody is trying to hurt him.
He’s probably got both kinds of people working for him. Some may have been promised things by Clinton.
I mean this happened in 1992 – I mean Ed Rollins signing on to help Perot.
Sammy Finkelman (337057) — 9/6/2016 @ 7:34 amAt least in fairness to our friend Dustin, he’s actually admitted that he’s voting for Hillary.
He thinks he’s busting our balls by accusing us of voting for Hillary if she were a Republican.
Irony must not be his strong suit since he’s actually voting for Hillary when she’s a DEMOCRAT.
Oops.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/6/2016 @ 8:55 amWhatevs!
Hey now, Dustin has dozens of insightful comments, witty, perhaps even humorous, to offer on this particular subject. However, he just had his yearly full physical this morning and he can’t handle any more ‘thumbs up’. So be gentle.
Colonel Haiku (59ae41) — 9/6/2016 @ 9:01 amIn other news today… http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/mutant-pig-human-face-penis-8775850
Colonel Haiku (59ae41) — 9/6/2016 @ 9:04 amBill Kristol’s latest:
http://view.info.mediadc.com/?qs=26b0701d37014fa67346421abc6d4756e4ff5b5cd0fe9f63f605741ab6a79cd5f22986345527b03ae6fc50ae51c4d957874ef3d78da8cdc2ec1475f928e2aca0
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/6/2016 @ 11:42 amhttp://www.270towin.com/maps/jyrEr
Map I created, illusrating a possible way the election could be thrown into the House of Represenatives.
The badge here is not tossup but McMullin. I have him carrying Minnesota and Utah.
This assumoption is taht the 2-party vote averages a total of around 72% for both Trump and Clinton combined. So hewre we have Trump getting 260 Electoral votes and Hillary 262, because so many people do not vote for Hillary Clinton.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/6/2016 @ 11:52 amThis is such self-serving drivel, the kind usually emanating from the mouth of a snarky leftist.
I don’t care about your vote, and you have delusions of grandeur if you think anyone does. You are a government employed lawyer from CA. You know what side your bread it buttered on, and no one can blame you for acting in your own self-interest. But you do much more than simply go in the booth in November and vote your conscience. Your blog has devoted the the last 9 months (at least) trashing Trump with every MSM meme that you could latch on to, and denigrating, insulting, and generally being an a** towards anyone who did not share your political views. And when Ted Cruz got CRUSHED at the ballot box (not so much in the smokey back rooms of the caucuses), your blog fantasized about changing the rules so your boy could win. So you have done far more that simply “vote”, and you have certainly been encouraging (or haranguing) people on how they should vote. Own it, and stop with the sophomoric attempts to deny what you and your compatriots have written and advocated for here.
But this is not the first election where “true” conservatives have loudly stated their intention to not vote for anyone, because they have PRINCIPLES!!!! They usually don’t make a lick of difference. So why should this time be different? The difference this time is that Trump (unlike McCain, Romney, Dole, and Bush(both) before him) truly represents an existential threat to the livelihood of both entrenched parties, and the media is only too happy to amplify the fringe voices of “Republicans” who detest Trump, since it furthers their agenda. Thus, for the first time, these useful idiots are giving the propaganda arm of those who see power over others as their ordained right all the ammunition they need, and then some.
So if you are taking a principled stand, the do so in the voting booth. But if you continue to do the work of the DNC and MSNBC, own it and recognize the consequences of your actions.
prowlerguy (fa36d8) — 9/6/2016 @ 12:44 pmI heard this same hoary old chestnut during the primary. And since primaries all all about GOTV (because so few vote in primaries compared to generals), it would seem that he was able to put together a ground operations that smashed 5-7 well-funded establishment career politicians. So again, your track record at guessing the future is not so swift.
prowlerguy (fa36d8) — 9/6/2016 @ 12:56 pmYou know, of all the idiotic things that have been spewed by #nevertrumpers, this takes the cake.
You truly believe that he would resort to violence on a grand scale? One does not simply, at the age of 70, suddenly become a violent person. Can you point me towards anything, rumor or innuendo, that ties Trump in any way to any sort of physical violence? I mean, the fact he bought property owned by a mobster and employed construction companies with union/organized crime ties in NJ was enough to postulate that he had an actual relationship with the mob, right? So surely there most be a tall tale somewhere of Trump ordering a few goons to go rough up a reluctant seller or alderman who wasn’t going to vote for his rezoning request, right? Or certainly someone “disappearing” under mysterious circumstances, right?
Or do you think, after spending 50 years in the real estate development business without even a hint of the use of physical violence to achieve his goals, that all of sudden he will resort to mass murder? Based on what?
prowlerguy (fa36d8) — 9/6/2016 @ 1:05 pmProwlerguy, Trump had the media at his side throughout the primary, and still he was the weakest winner in modern GOP history, taking things to the latest point we’ve ever seen. States that never had a say before had a say because Trump couldn’t seal the deal. You point to the primary as a sign of Trump’s strength, but the fact is Trump has not run his campaign effectively. Right now, the democrats have assembled a ground operation that will turn out the vote, and Trump has not. Period.
My first reaction to your comment is that Trump changed all of his political views in the last couple of years from die hard lefty democrat, donating a fortune to Hillary and Pelosi, to what he is today. Most republicans do not buy the flip flop. That’s why the majority of Republicans did not want Trump to be the nominee.
My second reaction is that you’re being dishonest. I’ve already spoken to you about Trump’s praise of violence. Here’s Trump’s own words:
Trump says that if China hadn’t been so firm, hadn’t rolled out tanks when students protested for human rights, they would have blown it. Trump condemned Gorbachev for being too peaceful compared to the dictators before him. Trump has praised Kim Jong Un, the brutal North Korean dictator as well.
Trump also promised riots if he wasn’t the nominee. Violence in the United States. When Trump’s fans sucker punched protestors, Trump loved it. When his senior staff assaulted a reporter, not only did Trump defend it, his fans did too.
But you know all that.
Your defense is a bunch of hand waving and some story about how Trump is linked to the mob. I don’t think you really had a point beyond calling me an idiot. I expect that from Trump’s defense force. You guys really hate free speech.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/6/2016 @ 1:37 pmDemosthenes, great comment. It’s bewildering that Trump’s fans are so paranoid about everything except that Trump loved Hillary for many years, donated to her, said she should be president, met with her right before running in our primary, and now is running the GOP into the ground to Hillary’s advantage.
At the very least, it’s obvious Trump doesn’t actually mind that much if she wins. Nor should he. Trump knows better than any of us how terrifying the prospect of him being president is. I don’t think he wants that to happen.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/6/2016 @ 1:41 pmDustin,
You’ve admitted you’re intending to vote for Hillary, yet you sit here and lecture people about how they’re jerks for supporting Democrats.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 9/6/2016 @ 1:51 pmThat doesn’t even pass the smell test in Texachusetts. (LOL)
Greetings, my friends. We are all interested in the future, for that is where you and I are going to spend the rest of our lives. And remember my friends, future events such as these will affect us in the future. You are interested in the unknown, the mysterious, the unexplainable, the 2016 presidential campaign, the Election Day. That is why you are here. And now, for the first time, young Dustin is bringing you the full story of what will happen on that fateful day. He is bringing you all the evidence, based only on information and conjecture that he, alone, possesses. The incidents, the places, the motivations, the shame. My friends, he cannot keep this a secret any longer. Let him punish the guilty. Let him reward the innocent. My friends, can your heart s withstand the shocking facts about the Trump candidacy?
Colonel Haiku (59ae41) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:11 pmWhy the race is getting closer: (something fairly obvious)
https://www.commentarymagazine.com/politics-ideas/campaigns-elections/the-fbi-and-clintons-poll-numbers/
That is the explanation.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:43 pmDonald Trump in 1990:
This isn’t Trump praising violence.
This is Trump, while attempting to be an impartial pundit, showing an absence of aversion to a government that murdered people. As with a lot of thinbgs, he backtracks a bit and gives some weight to a negative view – “they were horrible” – but he finds the main thing to observe about Tiananmen Square is that the Chinese government showed it was strong.
More recently, he had an observation about North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un:
His main reaction (paraphrased) : Incredible! What a bold leader! What a great tactical player in power politics! It’s like he’s discussing Civil War generals. Or Patton vs Rommel. Or chess or football players.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:52 pmAs usual, your main line of attack is to change what I said so that it’s absurd. Much like your use of the name “cruz supporter”, you rely on bad faith.
Trump’s political history includes support for communist dictators and the worst of the democrat party. He didn’t just vote for them as a last resort against some monster, but he rallied for them, raised money for them, went to events for them, and went on many national programs to tell us, among other things, how Hillary would be a ‘great’ president and was a great secretary of state. He did these things very recently. Prowlerguy says people do not change their minds when they are as old as Trump, and it’s interesting that Trump has pretended that he did exactly that.
I disagree with Trump and do not think Hillary will be a great president. I think she will be terrible. I also think Trump would be worse than terrible. If I have to pick between terrible and worse than terrible, I guess I’ll go with terrible. This is not at all like Trump saying Hillary will be a great president, or like donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to her.
You have repeatedly said I think one thing after I’ve corrected you, because you are a troll. Also because you confuse internet discussions with campaigning. You really think these comments have anything to do with who wins in November. So you get desperate to be a good foot soldier.
That’s not what I’m doing. I’m just having an enjoyable conversation about why Trump will lose. If you really wanted to beat Hillary you would have supported Cruz in the primaries.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:54 pmSammy, it’s interesting that you do not notice the part of the quote where Trump said that if the Chinese had not rolled out tanks at protestors that they would have blown it the way Gorbachev did by permitting protests.
But yes, of course Trump praised the Tienanmen Square massacre. This is what he thinks strength looks like. He is deeply insecure and unstable, and he would use nuclear weapons if he gained access to them. It would be a horrible mistake to elect him, and mankind would forever be asking how America made such a mistake. Fortunately, America is better than that and Trump is going to lose in a landslide. Yes, he will lose to a very bad candidate, but we’re going to be ok.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/6/2016 @ 2:57 pmA very probably dishonest Op-ed piece on the New York Tiomes today saying conservatives should vote for Hillary Clinton:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/06/opinion/save-the-republican-party-vote-for-clinton.html?_r=0
I don’t know who or what this Glassman really is – hes described as the under secretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs in the George W. Bush administration (and also an advisre to http://www.r4c16.org/ (Republicans for Clinton) but his spiel is dishonest.
r4c16.org is only mentioned online and you have to click on the link to find out what the acronym stands for.
He says he spent one and a half years looking for an indepednent candidate – starting even before Trump entered the race – that maybe roughly two-thirds of the Americans in the center would vote for , but gave up a month ago becaus eit is just too hard to get on the ballot.
You know what I say? He might have been working fro Clinton from the beginning.
You mean to tell me he knew nothinbg about the obstacles before – he was already looking for acandidate last year – and he could or did not find one? And then he goives uip after Trump is the nom inee.
And then his imaginary figures. He had said 2/3 – but then portrays a a small of only 200,000 voters in Ohio not liking but avoiding Clinton, and has as the mainstay of republican opposition to Hillary Clinton..that she was for higher taxes!
Is that an issue at all? Wouldn’t the Republican House stop that? What about her ethical or even criminal problems?
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:02 pmSammy, that’s a great link. You say you don’t know who Glassman is but that he must be engaged in a conspiracy with Clinton. You base this on nothing.
Meanwhile, Trump actually met with Hillary before announcing his run for president, donated to her many times, and is running the GOP into the ground, and you don’t see anything amiss.
Can you explain?
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:06 pm@214- If you really wanted to beat Hillary you would have supported Cruz in the primaries.
Sourdough.
Stale loaf.
Texas Toast.
Peddle fresh bread next cycle.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:15 pmDCSCA, I like Cruz well enough, but I do not have loyalty to any politician. Clearly the GOP nominated the wrong person. David Duke types do not agree, but most of Trump’s voters at this point certainly wish they had a candidate who might win.
Also it’s pretty normal for someone who came in second in a primary to become president later on. Hillary is doing it. Reagan and HW Bush both did it. In fact, I think after four years of Hillary, the time will be ripe for reform, exactly like in 1994-1998, when the conservatives were potent and the GOP actually did good things because of its opposition to President Clinton. On the other hand, after four years of Trump I cannot imagine the GOP being in good shape.
Some quotes:
Also
Trump was a big supporter and donor for Pelosi. Also the Clintons.
Later
Also
Hillary is awful but Trump is actually worse. The GOP nominated Cindy Sheehan. Trump went after the families of multiple opponents in his primary. Some of them are his quislings now. Those who are not are being threatened by Trump with PACs to run them out of office. Either we put Trump and party ahead of our family or Trump will drive us out. The GOP will be fine if Trump loses, but it will not be fine if he wins.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 9/6/2016 @ 3:50 pmHey Dustin, President Lincoln didn’t have tanks, but he crushed about a million of his fellow Americans to put down an uprising. Most Americans think he was a great president. What say you?
Also, as you well know, Trump was a businessman that donated to politicians on both sides of the isle. It wasn’t personal, it was business. And obviously he has a hard on for the Bush family. He liked Reagan, he liked Quail, he donated heavily to Romney’s presidential campaign, and he was a registered Republican during the Bill Clinton presidency.
To pretend Trump poses a threat of violence against the American people is pure BS. He and his supporters have been on the receiving end of intimidation and violence, not the practitioners of it. Not one Democrat event has had Trump supporting protesters doing any violence.
You are a lying, seditious, foolish little gamma boy filled with sanctimonious bile and pig ignorance. Go vote for Hillary, and enjoy every minute of her doing as she has always done, that being all the things you assert Trump will do in your fevered imagination. You condemn Trump for donating to her, yet you are going to VOTE for her. That you miss the irony of that just shows what a mental midget you are.
Now go ahead, entertain me more with your little girl squeals over the big strong man scaring you. This is a time for dark humor.
LBascom (09d352) — 9/6/2016 @ 8:56 pmAnother sign the #nevertrumpers are ignorant of history, among many other things. Ford went to the convention in 1976 without a majority of delegates. That sounds like a later point than Super Tuesday (when Trump made his lead insurmountable). And of course 2016 had the most candidates for the nomination of either party in history. Takes a while for that many losers to realize they are losers. Some never get the message, and smirk their way to political oblivion on national TV at the convention. And yes, the media was “at his side”, desperately trying to lodge the fatal knife in his back. Too bad every baseless attack only energized Republicans to support Trump.
Another lie. Giving money to politicians or mouthing meaningless platitudes when your business depends on those politicians not blocking your projects is not a reflection of your views. For instance, this interview from 1988 doesn’t exactly sound like a “die hard lefty”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZpMJeynBeg
That’s from YOUR OWN OUT-OF-CONTEXT cherry-picked quote. Doesn’t sound like praise to me.
Another lie from a #nevertrumper. What a surprise!! He never “promised” riots. He was asked what he thought would happen (not what he would cause to happen) if the Republican elite conspired with those who lost the primary and changed the rules so that they could simply bypass the voters and decree who won the nomination. He simply give his opinion that there might be a few million people feeling disenfranchised that might voice their disapproval in a more demonstrative way. And he was right. Blatant stealing of elections often lead to widespread unrest.
But you know all that.
More tellingly, you never addressed how a person who has no history of physical violence at all (even alleged by his enemies, who have tried to tie him to organized crime) would suddenly engage in it on a grand scale. As always, the questions you dodge show more about your “principles” than the thousands of words you type.
Speak all you want, Dustin, oh seer of the future. It is great fun to see how outlandish the #nevertrumpers are willing to be. !!!! TANKS IN THE STREETS!!!!! smh
But you should be a man and own what you say, instead of saying “Oh no, I don’t support Hillary in any way! Not me! I just sound like a talking head on MSNBC because I have CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES!!!” you should be honest and say “I think Hillary will make a much better president than Trump and I am willing to say or do anything in order to make that a reality.” Is such honesty too much to ask from a #nevertrumper?
prowlerguy (fa36d8) — 9/7/2016 @ 5:25 amObama has now reached his highest approval rate in years.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/7/2016 @ 1:52 pmSammy, the stock market has reached its highest level ever also. There is a common reason for both events.
LBascom (09d352) — 9/7/2016 @ 2:22 pmHey Pat, get over your ego and do the needful. Trump is not the best but he’s sure better than a corrupt, coughing. lying,thieving Hillary of a Clinton. When the desirable is not available then the available becomes the desirable. Trump2016.
The Emperor (a824d8) — 9/8/2016 @ 10:43 amhttps://eppc.org/publications/the-final-stretch/
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/8/2016 @ 2:14 pmSF: “Obama has now reached his highest approval rate in years.”
LBascom (09d352) — 9/7/2016 @ 2:22 pm
Low interest rates, you think?
The stock market very often reaches its highest level ever. That just means there is no recession. The reason might be taht the money has no place else to go.
Obama rreaching his highest approval rating in years is poprobably becasus epeople are comparing him to Trump and Hillary.
There are some people who would prefer Trump to Obama, but probably very few who would prefer Hillary Clinton to Obama.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/8/2016 @ 2:18 pmArticle by David French:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/439848/foreign-policy-donald-trump-hillary-clinton-unfit-be-commander-chief
Finds terrible faults with both Hillary Clinton’s and Donald Trump’s answers at the Matt Lauer “commander-in-Chief forum.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/8/2016 @ 2:32 pmI was actually thinking of quantitative easing, as in, artificially pumped up with something that isn’t real. The stock market is inflated by the treasury printing money at warp speed, and Obama is pumped up by the media printing stories about him that bare no resemblance to reality.
When was the last time the MSM had a negative story about Obama? Answer: never. Because that would be racist.
When was the last time the stock market reacted to true economic circumstances? Answer: the 2008 housing bubble crash, all Bush’s fault of course. Since then, the market has been totally divorced from reality
LBascom (09d352) — 9/8/2016 @ 2:40 pmLBascom (09d352) — 9/8/2016 @ 2:40 pm
It tends to have only a loose connection to economic events, but it does tend to correlate with it over a 5 or 10 year period.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/9/2016 @ 12:58 pm