Burkini Bans In France Cause Commotion
[guest post by Dana]
France, on defense after having been the target of recent radical Islamic terror attacks, has seen an increasing numbers of towns impose a ban on wearing burkinis on public beaches.
In Cannes, Mayor David Lisnard justified his city’s ordinance, noting that any “beach dress that ostentatiously shows a religious affiliation” was not acceptable given the Islamic State’s focus on France. Further, officials are saying that this is also in the interest of defending the secularism of France.
This week, the lower courts in Nice ruled that the ban on the burkini in the town of Villeneuve-Loubet “was ‘necessary, appropriate and proportionate’ to prevent public disorder.”
Ironically, the court also essentially decided that a Muslim woman adhering to her religion’s call for modesty by wearing a burkini, might actually offend the religious beliefs of others:
[T]he burkini was “liable to offend the religious convictions or [religious] non-convictions of other users of the beach” as well as “be felt as a defiance or a provocation exacerbating tensions felt by” the community.
There was, of course, no mention that wearing a burkini might be a political statement as much as a statement of modesty…
Earlier this week, it was reported that on the same beach where last month’s horrific terrorist attack took place during Bastille Day celebrations, four armed police officers confronted a middle-aged woman wearing a burkini, and demanded she remove the offending garment or face a fine:
(photo via the Guardian)
The woman complied.
Reactions to the burkini ban, and to this latest act of enforcement, varied:
The banning of the burkini in France, by the Administrative Tribunal in Nice, has been challenged by two human rights groups.
They argued that the ban on a garment that does not cover the face was petty, and designed to spread hatred against a small group of mainly Muslim mothers and grandmothers.…
[C]ritics point out that 30 Muslims died in the Nice attack, including women wearing traditional clothes, including headscarves.
They point out how the French authorities are meant to support free expression, including the right to offend and provoke, and say that the burkini ban is utterly hypocritical.
Echoing Olivier Dartigolles, spokesman of the French Communist Party, Sara Silvestri, a professor studying religion, claims the ban plays into the hands of terrorist groups:
“The effect of these laws is that Muslims feel marginalized and in turn, the feeling of being unwelcome impacts their ability and willingness to integrate into society, can cause withdrawal and lead to engagement with radical groups.”
The Guardian put it this way:
The burkini row may seem banal, and to some a surreal inversion of laws in Islamic countries, but it has become yet another flame in the murderous tinderbox of Islamism in France, invoking issues of control over the body, religious freedom, racism, provocation, terrorism, Islam and Islamophobia, republicanism and what the French call laïcité. Lïïcité is the hardest for people outside France to understand: our words “laity” and “secularism” fail to express the depth of allergy to all things theocratic, which is endemic to French societal fabric since the revolution.
However, the most outrageous reaction to the incident on the beach has to be the deputy mayor of Nice, Christian Estrosi’s threat to sue any citizens who post photos of police confrontations (like the one in the post) on social media:
Christian Estrosi … has published a press release by the city of Nice, to announce that he would file a complaint against those who would broadcast pictures of municipal police verbalize women guilty of exercising what they believed to be their freedom to dress from head to feet on the beaches.
“Photos showing municipal police of Nice in the exercise of their functions have been circulating this morning on social networks and raise defamation and threats against these agents ,” the statement said.
In light of ISIS, the increasing numbers of radicalized Muslims in France, and the barbaric acts of terror happening inside its borders, one can understand the country’s inclination to get out the ban hammer. Do something. Anything. Stop any kind of political statement or perceived visual endorsement of a religion directly linked to terrorism. But also, given that there are Muslim regions of the world whose governments force women to hide their offensive bodies under burkas and burkinis, it’s ironic that a country like France, which claims to pride itself on freedom, is also using the power of the state to tell women how to dress. And in some cases, those women are also French citizens.
–Dana
France rolled over so long ago, I don’t know that it can be salvaged.
Dana (995455) — 8/25/2016 @ 5:53 pmyes, it does seem to be closing barn door, after they burned down the barn, of course, steyn would point out the demographics are against them, part of their thanatos syndrome,
narciso (732bc0) — 8/25/2016 @ 5:57 pmI wanted to buy a burkini for my daughter when she sent me a picture from her Spring Break in her swimsuit with Bo Derek braids. Then when she wanted to go to Puerto Rico for Memorial Day because of the Zika (in the end they went to Florida instead).
Joking aside, this is so, so, so … French. Their response to terrorism is to go after women using a public beach and make them wear more revealing swimsuit? Degenerate cheese-eaters!
nk (dbc370) — 8/25/2016 @ 6:11 pmseems to me like the burkini cow done left the barn already
happyfeet (28a91b) — 8/25/2016 @ 6:18 pmhuma slutcakes stole my burkini
now i can’t go to the beach
happyfeet (28a91b) — 8/25/2016 @ 6:28 pmLet me know when you find one, nk.
I think an argument can be made against clothes that pose a security risk,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:05 pmbut the burkini seems pretty harmless if someone wants to wear one.
There have to be quite a few bigger problems to prioritize.
the outrage!!! is overwrought, where the australian woman killed recently well she’s an unperson, I was watching some old sleeper cell episodes, they had a character based on muriel degauge, the first european suicide bomber in iraq, and she wore regular clothes in los angeles,
narciso (732bc0) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:10 pmThe French enforce a secular public society, laïcité, by law, and have banned religious symbols for a decade from schools and government offices. So I don’t see why burkas or burkinis should be exempt from that. It’s not really that far fetched. And let’s be honest: it’s an attempt to Islamicize the West. I recently saw a half dozen women in a group, all wearing Islamic garb, all black from head to toe, at the pool. It was 103 degrees. If they don’t demand special Muslim days there within a year, I will eat my hat.
Patricia (5fc097) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:12 pmFrance is very committed to constitutional liberties! Why, that’s surely why they’ve had at least 16 constitutions, possibly more, just between 1789 and 1858, one of which was in force for 21 days. On average since 1789, France has changed its constitution every dozen years.
One doesn’t need a living, breathing constitution when kills off the old one every decade or so.
(The French are not to be taken seriously on such matters, although we’re still grateful for that Yorktown thing and the nice statue.)
Beldar (fa637a) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:19 pmthis was the example, I assume he’s north african,
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3755684/Woman-dead-man-fighting-life-French-tourist-went-stabbing-rampage-Queensland-backpackers-hostel.html
narciso (732bc0) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:22 pmGreetings:
So, I was talking to une Muslima francais about that “Burkini” ban controversy that le gouvernment has stirred up and, trying to be helpful, offered that none of the Muslimaniacs running around L’Europe slaughtering, in their many kuffarpohobic and infidelophobic ways, as many kuffars and infidels as they could, had been wearing burkinis so let’s not ban that prophet-approved couture rather lets make it mandatory for all Muslims, male, female, male-female, female-male, children of all ages, and especially those nine year old wives who are so ready to pop. I think that in no time at all, all those islamophobic kuffars and infidels would get back to their proper subdued selves.
She didn’t think that that was all that good of an idea so I guess the Islamic box-score will continue to follow the current trends.
11B40 (6abb5c) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:31 pmAmazon, MD. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aburkini&keywords=burkini&ie=UTF8&qid=1472178423
And I was serious about buying her one for protection against Zika. She, herself was looking at full body wetsuits. https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_1?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=wetsuit
I thought the burkini would be more comfortable out of the water.
nk (dbc370) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:32 pm“given that there are Muslim regions of the world whose governments force women to hide their offensive bodies under burkas and burkinis, it’s ironic that a country like France, which claims to pride itself on freedom, is also using the power of the state to tell women how to dress.”
It’s unhelpful that a pundit noting the return of proper civilizational attitude should consider this a strong closing sentence, rather than some variant of THEY HAVE TO GO BACK, DEPORT THEM ALL, or a similar group of words that may convey an immigration sentiment in line with all the concern trolling in the last few posts.
“And in some cases, those women are also French citizens.”
No they’re not.
‘Our forefathers, the Moors…’
Dystopia Max (76803a) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:37 pmYou’re the troll, here, Dyskoilia.
nk (dbc370) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:40 pmGo ask Vox Day if he’s assimilating to Finland. I take it that Mollysnot has already assimilated to Ireland?
nk (dbc370) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:41 pmnk is acting pretty high and mighty, like Hillary Clinton was scared enough of him to think he was worth denouncing today.
Dystopia Max (76803a) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:56 pmthe one with the other hawt wife,
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/25/burkini-must-be-banned-says-nicolas-sarkozy-as-he-launches-elect/
I think the merah attack was the last straw for his supporters, that last cycle,
narciso (732bc0) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:56 pm11. That statue was gifted to us to keep the paisans, bohunks, and wogs out of France.
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 8/25/2016 @ 7:57 pmYes, France did go a long way toward rolling over but this is still a positive step. It isn’t as if Muslim women cover up because they want to. It’s because of Surah 5:33.
Islam didn’t invent honor killing. Actually, Islam didn’t invent anything. But they preserved pre-Islamic practices alive and that includes honor killing. You won’t find a single passage in he Quran or in the Ahadith or even Sharia which authorizes the practice.
It simply isn’t in one spot. The theological bases authorizing the practice are scattered throughout the Muslim holy texts. When you add it all up, the fact that there is to be no retribution according to mainstream Sharia (you don’t get more mainstream in Sunni Islam than the Shafi’i, and the Shia have the same law) when a parent or grandparent kills their own child or grandchild, that what constitutes “spreading corruption” or fitna can include almost anything that someone can claim is not Islamic (hence Boko Haram!) such as in the case of girls wearing tight jeans or not covering their hair (thereby causing the boys, who no religious or cultural mandate to restrain themselves, to feel temptation), that men are in charge of women due to their moral and intellectual deficiency (which is why a woman’s testimony is worth half that of a man and why unless she has four male witnesses she wasn’t raped and needs to be be stoned to death as an adulterer)…
Surah 4:34 An-Nisa (The Women) – سورة النساء
That death is the prescribed punishment for all sorts of transgression we might consider minor, and that it is a duty of relatives to carry out the punishment or Allah will judge them to be just as deficient…
Sunan ibn Majah, The Book of Prescribed Punishments:
When you add it all up, Islam requires honor killings, almost always inflicted on girls and women. Boys and men almost never are killed except for apostasy. I’m sure it does happen but girls are far more likely to be killed for “dishonoring” the family. The Ayah I quoted concerns beating wives merely because their husband suspects they might get out of line (the words in brackets are inserted by they translator; it is not at all the case that the beating is to be a last resort, you can jump straight to it) but fathers, brothers, grandparents, uncles, are free to dole out the same punishment to all female relatives.
Actually, they have no choice. And if the father or brother doesn’t beat or kill the girl, as required by Sharia, the other male relatives are duty bound to do it as then girl and all her immediate relatives have shamed the family, and it’s up to the others to restore the lost honor.
This is why Muslim women cover up. As Stephen Crowder put it so well, you don’t go to Rio and play beach volleyball in a parka by choice. You do it because you’re in fear for your life. Some Muslim women will try to tell you that they wear the hijab or niqab or burka by choice but they are fullof s**t. They know what will happen if they don’t make the only “choice” they’re allowed to make.
And the reason this is a positive step is that non-Muslim women are given the same non-choice. Police in countries such as Austria, Germany, and Sweden are telling girls who are sexually assaulted by “refugees” that it’s their own stupid fault. They should know better than to be blonde (really; the cops tell them to dye their hair black) or walk around without a scarf covering their hair because that’s just too provocative. And that they can’t walk around after a certain time of night, without an escort. It’s disgusting.
At least the French aren’t that far gone. Good on ’em. And we need to take a lesson. It’s effin’ bizarre. The same people who will tell me I can’t dare legislate my Catholic morality and outlaw abortion are now telling me I have to respect “teh other” and diversity and all when Muslims demand Sharia. A legal code that is one entire whole. You can’t allow just Sharia finance or
family law because “Allah’s law” is one single thing. So you also get the wife beating and the notion a non-Muslim can not be in a position of authority over Muslims because non-Muslims of the “people of the book” are the worst of created beings. And a non-Muslim’s life is only worth one third of a Muslim’s life.
You have two choices. Accept none of it. Or accept all of it. They’re learning that in Britain. They have scores of Sharia courts now. They were sold to the British public as simply being something like rabbinical courts or Catholic cannon law tribunals. They would strictly concern themselves with religious matters like marriage, divorce, annulment. Now the Brits are finding out that the Sharia courts consider things like family violence religious matters. And the British government is letting them get away with it, like they did with the child sex rings in places like Rotherham.
MacArthur decreed when he wrote Japan’s constitution that no one would interfere with anyone’s personal Shinto. Anyone was free to practice it. But, Shinto would play no role in education or government. That was strictly forbidden. We need to do the same with Islam.
Steve57 (41f53d) — 8/25/2016 @ 8:06 pmGood for the French.
Don’t like French Values? Leave.
Rodney King's Spirit (a2db57) — 8/25/2016 @ 8:07 pmIf that’s true, it didn’t work very well.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/father-two-children-shot-dead-outside-jewish-school-in-france/2012/03/19/gIQAclfUMS_story.html
I’m sure everyone has noticed more recent reports out of France indicate the news isn’t getting better.
Steve57 (41f53d) — 8/25/2016 @ 8:10 pmJust google “Muslim kills Jew while shouting Allahu Akbar” and you’ll get plenty of stories about France. I bet right now they’d be willing to trade for the paisans.
Steve57 (41f53d) — 8/25/2016 @ 8:13 pmYeah, right. As though Muslims who wear religious garb are showing the slightest interest in “integrating” into the society of which they are a part.
Uh-huh.
Go on now, pull the other one…
IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d) — 8/25/2016 @ 11:21 pmSorry, don’t agree, given the Islamic penchant for violent reprisals. It’s obvious that, if you encourage pictures to be posted, then other Muslims are more likely to violently assault the officers at home and with their families.
IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d) — 8/25/2016 @ 11:24 pmTexas had Sharia law in 1915? Well, live and learn.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2016 @ 4:33 amlotsa jellyfish out that year
happyfeet (28a91b) — 8/26/2016 @ 4:38 am@26, you mean Jooooz. There were lots of Jooooz in the water that year.
Steve57 (41f53d) — 8/26/2016 @ 4:45 amFemale modesty is a crime only in pervy places full of cheese-eating surrender monkeys.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2016 @ 4:49 amall i know is tentacles were involved
happyfeet (28a91b) — 8/26/2016 @ 4:51 amWell,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:08 amWell
I guess in France if they by law make it a secular society with public expression of religious faith overtly discouraged if not illegal,
I guess it was consistent.
Zika, nk?
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:13 amThat wasn’t what I was thinking.
Islam makes the mistake of blaming women for being a temptation.
That is the wrong focus.
Good point, Steve. Orthodox Jewish women at the beach.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:18 amHeh, MD! Whatever works, eh?
O tempores, o mores. One time, I played a YouTube video of Blondie’s “Call Me” to show my daughter what was considered cutting edge sexy in my time. She said, about Debbie Harry, “She’s wearing a one-piece [swimsuit]!”
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:24 amShe’s got something that moves my soul
And she knows
I’d love to love her
But she lets me down every time
Can’t make her mine
She’s no one’s lover
Tonight with me she’ll be so inviting
I want her all for myself
Oh, temptation eyes
Looking through my, my, my soul
Temptation eyes
You’ve got to love me, got to love me tonight
Got to love me, baby, yeah, mmm
Her wild-eyed innocence is just a game
But just the same
My head is spinning
She’s got a way to keep me on her side
It’s just a ride
It’s never-ending
Tonight with me she’ll be so exciting
I want her all for myself
Oh, temptation eyes
Looking through my, my, my soul
Temptation eyes
You’ve got to love me, got to love me tonight
Do you feel it now?
Tonight with me she’ll be so exciting
I want her all for myself
Oh, temptation eyes
Looking through my, my, my soul
Temptation eyes
You’ve got to love me, got to love me tonight
Temptation eyes
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:29 amLooking through my, my, my soul
Temptation eyes
where she stood’s now a smoking hole
I’ll tell you what, though. I see these beautiful young girls walking around with tattoos up and down their arms and legs and I want them covered up. They don’t look immodest, they look disgusting.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:31 amyuck yes and the tatted up slag chicks just keep getting younger and younger and also older and older
so trashy
happyfeet (28a91b) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:33 amI read the stories about the Burkina ban to see the “surrounding scenery”. Judging by some of photos of the non-gallic women who don normal swimwear, they’re missing an opportunity. That’s some talent that with less gavage and more toning could be at the level of Brazil, Puerto Rico, and South Florida (hopefully with less mosquitos). Oh well, just trying to make something out of a bleak situation.
urbanleftbehind (7fdb00) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:49 amTats are disgusting on anybody. I used to use the Naval Regional Medical Center’s base pool when I was in high school and junior college. Because some of my personal heroes like Robert Copeland, skipper of the Sammy B. at Leyte, didn’t know how to swim. Their only deficiency.
There were quite a few WWII vets who also used the pool. And you’d look at them, or I would look at them, and think, “OK, I bet that tattoo seemed like a good idea back in 1942 when it was time to get, ‘Screwed, brewed, and tattooed’ on liberty. But for gawd’s sakes don’t march around in public like that anymore.”
I never could stomach getting a tattoo after sharing a locker room with those guys. And they were great guys. But tattoos just don’t look the same after 40 years.
Steve57 (41f53d) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:52 amTwo words. Daddy issues.
Steve57 (41f53d) — 8/26/2016 @ 5:54 amIf a tattoo ban at beaches ever was made law, it would be a shame that a tattoo ban wasn’t implemented along the shores of the Rio Grande.
urbanleftbehind (7fdb00) — 8/26/2016 @ 6:09 amEbonyC4 type Eyes by Bomb SquelchWell have you seen that girl in the burkha
I’d like to take her out of her chains
‘Cause if I had my way with you baby I would be changing your life today
Your eyes got me dreamin
Your eyes got me blind
Your eyes got me hopin
You won’t be blowin us up tonight
Your eyes got me dreamin
Your eyes got me blind
Your eyes got me hopin
You won’t be blowin us up tonight
She was the same as a million ladies
But when my eyes looked at her I yearned
But she was keepin a secret from me
And if I got real close I’d burn
So it looked like I had to move slowly
Feel her up for a bomb cautiously
‘Cause I was waiting for her to show me
Before I learned that her love wasn’t free
Your eyes got me dreamin
Your eyes got me blind
Your eyes got me hopin
You won’t be blowing us up tonight
Your eyes got me dreamin
Your eyes got me blind
Your eyes got me hopin
You won’t be blowing us up tonight
Ooo-oooo
Colonel Haiku (e5c973) — 8/26/2016 @ 6:10 amC4 type eyes, C4 type eyes
C4type eyes, C4 type eyes
Charge Weiner for the use of that song, Colonel!
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 8/26/2016 @ 7:14 amIn America, we have Slut Walks (and abortion rites). Keep women as objects, serviceable, and taxable.
In France, they have Burkini walks. Two liberal deviations from normal.
n.n (cd8e58) — 8/26/2016 @ 8:56 am