Patterico's Pontifications

8/21/2016

Is Trump Easing Up On Immigration?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:23 am



[guest post by Dana]

It would appear he is.

I don’t see how he can possibly change his position and not lose his base, especially as it was his strident “build the wall” stance that won supporters over in the first place. But, he is a master flip-flopper on any number of issues and is seriously trailing Clinton with the Hispanic vote. Certainly softening his stand on immigration might help mend the racist fences he’s built during the campaign as well as garner GOP support from the soft on immigration wing of the Republican party. But at this point in time, would it really make that much of a difference in votes, especially as Hillary Clinton has consistently pushed for comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to full and equal citizenship?

In a Saturday meeting with his newly announced Hispanic advisory council, Donald Trump suggested he is interested in figuring out a “humane and efficient” manner to deal with immigrants in the country illegally, according to three sources. Trump, however, stressed that any new announcements will still be in line with the border security-focused approach that has invited intense opposition from Latinos and immigrants since he launched his campaign.

“He said people who are here is the toughest part of the immigration debate, that it must be something that respects border security but deals with this in a humane and efficient manner,” said Jacob Monty, a Houston-based immigration lawyer who sat in Trump Tower with other Latino supporters and Trump.

“The idea is we’re not getting someone in front of the line, we’re doing it in a legal way, but he wants to hear ideas of how we deal with 11 million people that are here with no documents,” said Jose Fuentes, who was chair of Mitt Romney’s Hispanic advisory committee in 2012, and attended the meeting.

According to Univision News, this Thursday Trump will announce his immigration plan, which will “include finding a way to legalize millions of undocumented immigrants”:

Republican National Committee spokesperson Helen Aguirre was also present at the meeting and confirmed that the candidate is working on unveiling a plan. “Trump was very categorical in saying that he’s seeking a fair immigration reform,” Aguirre said. “He wants to listen to everyone and announce his conclusions in the coming days.”

Trump told the group of conservative Hispanic leaders he would announce a plan to grant legal status “that wouldn’t be citizenship but would allow them to be here without fear of deportation.” said [Jacob] Monty, a Texas immigration lawyer.

Further:

The Republican candidate said that his main priority was how to handle the 11 million undocumented immigrants who are now in the country, the sources said.

“Trump is aware that he cannot deport 11 million people,” says Lola Zinke, wife of Ryan Zinke, a Republican congressman from Montana, who is a former Navy Seal.

Zinke, the daughter of a Peruvian, is a San Diego lawyer familiar with illegal immigration issues, who says she believes deportation is not the solution. “It doesn’t make sense to force undocumented [immigrants] to go back to their countries to regularize their situation. Trump himself mentioned a possible solution: let them do it at the embassies or consulates of their countries,” she said.

A Trump campaign spokesman dismissed the story as “clickbait journalism,” saying:

Mr Trump said nothing today that he hasn’t said many times before … enforce our immigration laws, uphold the Constitution and be fair and humane while putting American workers first.

It indeed may have been “clickbait journalism,” given that the story was being pushed by BuzzFeed and Univision. Except there was this from earlier this morning:

Untitled

I guess we’ll find out on Thursday. But depending on the voters’ response to his announcement, it may change again on Friday. It’s really anybody’s guess.

–Dana

133 Responses to “Is Trump Easing Up On Immigration?”

  1. ohnoes

    he might could lose now and then stinkypig will get to appoint the planned parenthood judges

    is it too late to nominate sore loser harvardtrash ted?

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  2. It really infuriates me that for the very first time ever in the history of politics a candidate is flip-flopping and it had to be a Republican candidate. Very irritating.

    Rev. Hoagie® (0f4ef6)

  3. 3. Ted was just a much better at the backyard BBQ version of Foam Boy, particularly with this issue.

    urbanleftbehind (456f32)

  4. Hillary Clinton has consistently pushed for comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to full and equal citizenship

    In other words: Amnesty! New democrat voters, people to do the jobs Americas won’t do* and new welfare and subsidy recipients the middle class can support.

    So it’s come to bringing in millions of unassimilable people from South America and people who refuse to assimilate from the Middle East and who potentially pose a security threat. Why? Why? Exactly what Great Need does America have requiring the import of these people? Somebody needs to explain to me why we need any immigration at this time, much less a load of moslem “refugees”.

    *Americans won’t do those jobs because the pay for not doing them is greater than the pay for doing them.

    Rev. Hoagie® (0f4ef6)

  5. who lurvs him some amnesty is pervert mitt romney’s number one perv-son Paul Ryan

    they butter it up and go to town on that amnesty

    it’s something of a spectacle

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  6. Oh noes!! How are we going to prevent “the browning of America” if we just assign different euphemisms to “legalization”?! I want my deportations!

    Leviticus Channeling Trumpkins (09474f)

  7. browning also called the maillard reaction is what gives pumpernickel bread its distinctive colour, at least originally in old europe

    in failmerica we tend to add colourings and it’s really not the same thing, but it still makes a tasty sammich

    and at the end of the day we all enjoy a tasty sammich sometimes even if we tell other people oh no i never eat sammiches

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. Is cute anti American racist sarcasm the way you answer the question: “Exactly what Great Need does America have requiring the import of these people? Somebody needs to explain to me why we need any immigration at this time, much less a load of moslem ‘refugees’.”? Because that’s not an answer.

    Rev. Hoagie® (0f4ef6)

  9. Hoagie, the left needs immigrants as fast as their base aborts themselves. It’s the only way to replace the millions in humans sacrificed to the Prince of Liberalism.

    felipe (023cc9)

  10. His true-blue supporters know that he’s just lying to get over on the wetbacks. Just like Ivana knew that the promises he was making to Marla were just to get into her pants.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  11. Hoagie,

    I would take 10 Mexicans who all want to work and share a lot of our values, before I’d take most Muslims. The two issues should not be conflated.

    As far as Mexican immigration, though, we need some but not anything like what we have had. American citizens need to be able to find work without having to compete with people who think living in a hovel 6 to a room is acceptable.

    What we have now, though, is a system that actively prevents ANY legal entrance for workers but encourages benefit clients, such as the aged relatives of legal residents.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  12. “His true-blue supporters know that he’s just lying to get over on the wetbacks. Just like Ivana knew that the promises he was making to Marla were just to get into her pants.”

    An honest and helpful conservative who actually cared about immigration’s deleterious effects on our communities would have said something like: ‘lying just like the illegals lied about their social security numbers and other markers of legal status to get driver’s licenses and work permits.’

    There is no reason to be honest with people who are themselves fundamentally dishonest. Given your absolutely terrible opposition research on the Hispanic lobby, it’s not surprising that this truth escapes you.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  13. Given your absolutely terrible opposition research on the Hispanic lobby, it’s not surprising that this truth escapes you.

    I have no idea what this even means, so it’s hard to refute you. The rest of your comment is drivel, though.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  14. “I have no idea what this even means, so it’s hard to refute you. The rest of your comment is drivel, though.”

    I realize that a reading, researching, and social connection disorder is a terrible thing to have, but the proper response to being hit by an argument you don’t understand is to spend time reading vdare.com or, for a more exclusive immigration-law-enforcement focus, federaleagent86.blogspot.com. Their articles are profusely researched and you will not find a dull page in them.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  15. Ted probably uses a gas grill with lighter fluid.

    mg (31009b)

  16. The uproar about Trump on immigration is coming from the illegal lobby.

    Oh noes!! How are we going to prevent “the browning of America” if we just assign different euphemisms to “legalization”?! I want my deportations!

    Leviticus Channeling Trumpkins

    I am commenting once in a while here because I see some sense of reality returning. Maybe not Patrick but some of the rest.

    The “racism” slur is mostly by the left and by the immigration unlimited types like the Wall Street Journal.

    Legal Hispanics are being mislead but I think they are figuring out what he has been talking about all along.

    Democrats purposely confuse legal and illegal immigration. There are also valid issues about H1B visas which leave the recipients in an indentured servant class.

    These are serious issues and deserve serious discussion.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  17. Racial fences being built? WTF does that mean?

    Trump has more Hispanic (a category of Caucasian BTW) and black support than Romney did.

    Trump has never said he wants to close the border, he wants to control the border. The goal is to control the number of immigrants,and to be able to vet them.

    Of the undocumented already here, if they have been here for a significant number of years, have children born here, have gainful employment and paid taxes, and have committed no felonies, I see no reason not to issue them a green card on the condition they pay a fine for illegal entry or visa overstay, learn English, and pass a citizenship class. For the rest, make it illegal for anyone not a citizen to receive any type of government assistance, and they will self deport, or eventually be deported when they come to the attention of the authorities.

    Above all, strictly enforce existing immigration law, and give Border Control the means and authority to do it.

    It ain’t rocket science, it’s about having the will to do it. Which is what Trump has and the Republican elite only pretend to have…at least during election season.

    LBascom (b3f6be)

  18. stinkypig’s pet terrorist Huma will do so good on the racial healing

    (just don’t go out for ice creams)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  19. Have them take a number and get in line just like anybody else. These libs/#Hillary4Ever nitwits hit them with their soft bigotry of low expectations before they’ve even jumped the line.

    Any nation that doesn’t have sense enough to act in its own self-interest is not worth saving and does not deserve to be saved. Let the legal vultures pick over the bones, but only after they’ve been salted with rat poison.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. #NeverTrumpers and #Hillary!4Ever types auditioning for new leaders… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pOLVsGyI_8

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  21. What makes anyone buy what he’s selling this time? And, if come Thursday, he does do a flip-flop on immigration, will it sway you, or change your opinion of him?

    If your vote is simply to vote against Hillary, I understand that and respect it. However, if you genuinely think he is the best candidate out of a long list of them, how would a about change on immigration go over with you?

    Dana (995455)

  22. no foreign enemy, no terror group, no native criminal gang, suffers the daily beating that Trump does. The mad mullahs of Iran, who call America the Great Satan and vow to wipe Israel off the map, are treated gently by comparison.

    By torching its remaining credibility in service of Clinton, the mainstream media’s reputations will likely never recover, nor will the standards. No future producer, editor, reporter or anchor can be expected to meet a test of fairness when that standard has been trashed in such willful and blatant fashion.

    Liberal bias in journalism is often baked into the cake. The traditional ethos of comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable leads to demands that government solve every problem. Favoring big government, then, becomes routine among most journalists, especially young ones.</blockquote

    With all of the offal dumped on our Great White Satan, you'd be forgiven in thinking the illuminati
    have lost their audience now that the polls have evened out.

    In fact, the media have lost which ever way the wind doth blow from here on. People in government are known obligatory parasites.

    DNF (ffe548)

  23. 21. The best candidate is the one who has any chance at all of beating brain-eating amoeba.

    Facile is far to generous a term for your argument.

    DNF (ffe548)

  24. Who the H*ll does #nevertrump think they are cutting their rear quarters out of the crowd as true ‘conservatives’?

    WSJ’s Stephens defines Reaganites as globalists for Judas’ sake. Schlafly and Buchanan own the conservative label as much as anyone and they are on board whole hog.

    A pox on their house.

    DNF (755a85)

  25. Lookit… we all know that walls do not work!

    They simply don’t stop anyone!

    But fences…ahh… a different matter altogether.

    The White House has recently raised the perimeter fence by about the height of the average illegal Mexican alien (5 feet) and put sharper spikes on top. (In Mexico, they build walls and embed broken glass in the top… completely ineffective)

    Obama is also considering a moat near the wall but it will NOT have alligators. That would be ridiculous. Instead, a committee is working on the problem and has considered various water snakes, electric eels, and even specially trained beavers, which would be pleasing to tourists and especially children.

    Obama has cited a number of famous fences to insure his politically correct decision.

    Examples: The Great Fence of China, The Berlin Fence…

    Last but not least, Obama decided to honor Americans in heightening the White House Fence by citing its similarity to a great memorial due to his love and respect of our military and service men:

    The Vietnam Memorial Fence, engraved with the names of each and every fallen soldier. (Obama has memorized all 58,307 names out of respect)

    Trump really should get a clue!

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  26. #nevertrump perseverates in a locked-loop circuit, “but we need a better candidate”!!!

    Good Lord, that train left the station months ago. The convention ignored you because you are insignificant, feckless and without socially redeeming merit.

    Step in front of a bus already.

    DNF (ffe548)

  27. Dana, depends on the change. So far there hasnt been one. He has always said there would be a big gate in the fence, and illegals would get another chance if they went back and got in line. He wants to CONTROL the border, not close it.

    If Cruz came out tomorrow and confessed he’s an open borders globalist, would it change your mind about promoting a Hillary presidency?

    LBascom (b3f6be)

  28. 16. “These are serious issues and deserve serious discussion.”

    And instead we are treated to “Trump is a Leftist”, day in day out. We are never going to find out what has #nevertrump so existentially threatened because they will not level with the unwashed.

    They just want to have their way, screw the communication.

    DNF (ffe548)

  29. i think it’s plain old fashioned snobbery

    they’re like them old people on gilligan’s island

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  30. Hey #NeverTrumpers, I hear that Hillary’s easing up on immigration!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  31. they’re like them old people on gilligan’s island

    Closer to Jed Clampett’s neighbors.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  32. oh my goodness that’s even worse

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  33. I like the nevertrumpers that say they want Trump crushed to teach the trumpers a lesson before they run them out if the party. When Trump got more votes than Romney. And that not voting for Trump doesn’t help HIllary.

    I don’t think they really understand how elections work.

    LBascom (b3f6be)

  34. I don’t think they really understand how elections work.

    No, I think they know but they think they will be able to do deals with Hillary and most of them don’t care about guns and immigration. They live in New York City or San Francisco and have had assurances that Hillary will see to their cares once she is in office and the check clears.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  35. St. Louis Spare ribs- dry rub overnight-225 smoke- finish with a Breckenridge Bourbon Glaze.
    Any bourbon drinker would love the finish.

    mg (31009b)

  36. well look how ineffectual white house security, has been in the last two years, seriously they don’t take their own safety seriously.

    narciso (732bc0)

  37. Nope. Au contraire. Das stimmt nicht. We don’t find any particular need for anyone to see to our, and were we ever to look to hire one, it would not be Trump.

    nk (dbc370)

  38. to see to our *needs*

    nk (dbc370)

  39. Or Hillary.

    nk (dbc370)

  40. Or Gary Johnson.

    nk (dbc370)

  41. Or Steve Sailer.

    nk (dbc370)

  42. We need someone to secure our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Hillary don’t care about none of that. Trump at least believes in the rule of law, and national borders. That’s a foundation on rock, compared to Hillary’s beach.

    LBascom (b3f6be)

  43. LBascom @43.

    Q. Who is it, who has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, according to the Declaration of Indepedence?

    Sammy Finkelman (44f942)

  44. we do, because they are inalienable

    narciso (732bc0)

  45. And where is the Rule of Law in America’s founding documents? Perhaps that was what the Boston Teas Party was about, or maybe the Second amendment.

    Sammy Finkelman (44f942)

  46. I imagine one would expedite transfers through consular means, for one,

    narciso (732bc0)

  47. All rulers believe in the rule of law. Believing in the rule of law is not enough of a qualification for a person you are electing to make laws. You might not like the laws he makes to rule you with. You should look for other qualities, positive and negative.

    nk (dbc370)

  48. Mild aside: The writ of assistance, which was what the Boston Tea Party protested, is still alive and well, and a powerful federal prosecutorial tool, last seen in these pages with the FBI/Apple encryption dispute.

    nk (dbc370)

  49. Trump at least believes in the rule of law, and national borders. That’s a foundation on rock, compared to Hillary’s beach.

    You don’t have to believe much except that Hillary is a hazard.

    I don’t know what Trump is going to do. I know what Hillary will do.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  50. I thought this was so gracious of President Obama.

    He dedicated his final putt of his final summer vacation as President to the victims of the Louisiana flood.

    Though it took him three strokes to sink the 10 ft putt on the 18th hole, as the clean, white Titelist embossed with the blue Presidential Seal fell into the cup solidly, the President intoned to the press contingent: “We are Americans together, I don’t give up and neither do the people of Louisiana.”

    God Bless President Obama!

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  51. Even on the golf course, Barack’s a lefty! (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  52. @#44-humans.

    44- I would think the fact that they bothered to draft the constitution the way they did sorta implies they expected the country to follow the rule of law.

    48- Hillary doesn’t believe in the rule of law, she believes in the rule of rulers.

    LBascom (b3f6be)

  53. and at the end of the day we all enjoy a tasty sammich sometimes even if we tell other people oh no i never eat sammiches

    What kind of person never eats sammiches? That’s just…unnatural.

    Milhouse (ce9efb)

  54. btw did we ever find out where they got ‘friends of hamas’ from, one could read it generically as certainly arabian magnates like the recently departed effendi juffali, who was a contributor to red queen,

    http://spectator.org/the-smearing-of-steve-bannon/

    narciso (732bc0)

  55. What is this, the billionth time the MSM and #nevertrumpers have said “Ah ha! Trump just flip-flopped and reversed what he said that all his little Trumpkins fell for.”
    Only to see that it turns out that, no, he didn’t reverse anything at all, somebody made it up.

    And then the #nevertrumpers respond by saying: “{nothing}”.

    fred-2 (ce04f3)

  56. Mike K (90dfdc) — 8/21/2016 @ 5:01 pm

    I know what Hillary will do.

    Skillful corruption. The rest is really a guess, although anything being advocated by liberals on the basis of lies is a good guess.

    Sammy Finkelman (882d94)

  57. Who is it, who has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, according to the Declaration of Indepedence?

    Sammy Finkelman (44f942) — 8/21/2016 @ 4:41 pm

    45. narciso (732bc0) — 8/21/2016 @ 4:42 pm

    And so do all aliens, because as you indicated, these rights are unalienable.

    Sammy Finkelman (882d94)

  58. 28. LBascom (b3f6be) — 8/21/2016 @ 2:01 pm

    Dana, depends on the change. So far there hasnt been one. He has always said there would be a big gate in the fence, and illegals would get another chance if they went back and got in line.

    When did Trump ever say anything about a waiting period, or a “line?”

    He wants to CONTROL the border, not close it.

    That’s what he said. But some people are confused.

    Now what’s actually going to happen is that Trump probably won’t say very much. The qiestion will be, if three or four weeks later, when the polls don’t hange, he will picot further.

    What Trump needs is for Hillary to accuse him of being soft on immigration. If anybody can manage to make that happen, Trump can, although it might not happen till the debates.

    Sammy Finkelman (882d94)

  59. And that not voting for Trump doesn’t help HIllary.

    Just be happy we don’t VOTE for Hillary.

    And Trump only got more votes that Romney because the contested primaries went longer. Romney had it wrapped up a month earlier.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  60. here’s a crazy notion, lets wait and see what the plan is, then we can throw stones, umkay,

    narciso (732bc0)

  61. he was up against 16 candidates, not seven if memory serves, santorum gave the strongest challenge, somewhat like cruz, which isn’t surprising because at least one of his staffers,
    alice stewart came from that camp, but it also shows the limitation of that approach,

    narciso (732bc0)

  62. 48. Following that Socratic argument, “all men desire to be good”, try the Hemlock.

    DNF (755a85)

  63. 61. Stick to your day job, vegetating.

    DNF (ffe548)

  64. it’s more often like trasymychus

    tell me if you think he would have trump’s interest at any point,

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacobmonty

    narciso (732bc0)

  65. harsh, gary, the people’s republic is nearly at tommy boy maduro’s blacklisting stage, and it didn’t matter if one were a partisan of salas, capriles or maduro,

    narciso (732bc0)

  66. Schlafly and Buchanan own the conservative label as much as anyone

    Right. Why am I not surprised that DNF is a Buchananite. Both Buchanans left the party about 20 years ago, and good riddance to awful sh*t. No decent person wants them back. Anyone who does want them back is not a decent person.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  67. I don’t know how Hilary can get to the right, unless she warp speeds 180 degrees/ goes solomonic on the post 2012 border kids post haste. Trump is cunning that way.

    urbanleftbehind (f2b250)

  68. Trump at least believes in the rule of law, and national borders.

    Ha ha ha. If you believe that you’ll believe anything.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  69. “And Trump only got more votes that Romney because the contested primaries went longer. Romney had it wrapped up a month earlier.”

    Not exactly Trump’s fault that a bunch of your opportunistic fake candidates decided to self-sabotage for weeks because you couldn’t enforce basic party discipline early and often.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  70. Q. Who is it, who has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, according to the Declaration of Indepedence?

    Good point. A lot of people here seem to think that only certain people do.

    we do, because they are inalienable

    Yes, but which “we”? The Declaration says every human being, including Mexicans, Moslems, and even Frenchmen. Some people seem to agree with John Calhoun that’s “there is not a word of truth in it”.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  71. I wouldn’t call 13.6 milion a lot considering that over 125 million voted in the 2012 general election. Just what the cow dropped in the milk bucket.

    nk (dbc370)

  72. 73. Just the most ever in GOP primaries.

    Reason 149 DJT over HRC is no contest for the intellectually honest:

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/08/21/love-israel-trump-possible-choice/

    You are excused, abogado.

    DNF (ffe548)

  73. 68. Soggy cardboard has a firmer grasp of logic.

    Einstein was right, the sole advantage ‘the chosen’ has among the nations is the Chooser.

    DNF (ffe548)

  74. But nowhere near a majority. More people against him than for him. In the GOP primaries. Excuse from looking up previous nominees percentages.

    nk (dbc370)

  75. All rulers believe in the rule of law.

    Not really. The rule of law is as opposed to the rule of men. That means there is no real ruler, because he too is subject to the same laws. He can’t do whatever he wants; so long as people are obeying the law they can defy his wishes. People like Trump don’t even understand the concept of the rule of law, because they see everything in terms of the ruler’s will. That’s why he was astonished at the concept that the army would not obey his orders if they were illegal.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  76. 48- Hillary doesn’t believe in the rule of law, she believes in the rule of rulers.

    Exactly, and so does Trump.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  77. well as we’ve clearly seen, it depends on the institutions to form a safeguard, with obama, we’ve blown all the fuses, similar with hillary, so I my words are not clear, with trump, it will be like stalingrad from nov 5, onward,

    narciso (732bc0)

  78. 77. Case in point, ibn Dunham.

    76. A clear majority of Republicans support DJT at this juncture, roughly 80%. Fighting yesterday’s wars is typical of #nevertrump#butthurt relics and you could not do a new thing if your life depended on it.

    DNF (ffe548)

  79. 68. Soggy cardboard has a firmer grasp of logic.

    1. Fact: Both Buchanans are and have always been antisemites.

    2. Fact: DNF is a Buchananite.

    3. Conclusion: DNF is an antisemite.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  80. Both 0bama and Clinton understand the rule of law, they just don’t believe in it. I don’t think Trump even understands it.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  81. You lisp, Benjaminite.

    DNF (ffe548)

  82. Huh?

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  83. Too often the “rule of law” is a substitute for conscience or an excuse for its lack. To bring a little Thoreau into the conversation since we did Nietzsche last night. 😇

    nk (dbc370)

  84. that’s probably incorrect, buchanan did have a quixotic streak which was manifesting itself somewhat in the mid 80s, however he was fairly proisrael until around 1990, and he fell off the clift subsequently,

    narciso (732bc0)

  85. The trouble with conscience is that mine may differ from yours, and what are we to do then? We are more likely to agree on the law, even if we don’t like it, so it provides an objective standard which each person can measure against his conscience. If a person’s conscience requires him to break the law, at least he knows what he does, and can know when he is judged whether justice has been done to him.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  86. “I don’t know what Trump is going to do. I know what Hillary will do.”

    Mike K

    And better the devil you don’t know than the devil you do, as the saying goes.

    Leviticus (1bebeb)

  87. 85. Granted, but save your Socratic argument it does not.

    DNF (ffe548)

  88. He was always an antisemite, since his childhood. Political pragmatism sometimes required him to take positions that didn’t reflect that antisemitism.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  89. “you could not do a new thing if your life depended on it.”

    I am suffering fools civilly, if not gladly, tonight, and that’s no small thing.

    nk (dbc370)

  90. 86. But my point was the paleos have senority rights to the appellation ‘conservative’ if any are to be had at all.

    Milhouse is just too obtuse to acknowledge the point and hopes to make some small parry to dance like sugar plums in his little head tonight.

    DNF (ffe548)

  91. no, I don’t think so, they were a part of the coalition, more on social policy,

    narciso (732bc0)

  92. The paleos were driven out of the movement in the ’50s, thank goodness.

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  93. 91. You punch below your weight old man.

    DNF (ffe548)

  94. All people have inalienable rights, but not all people have the rights of American citizenship.

    And all these assertions about what Trump is going to do (every one being the opposite of what he says he will do) are just that, assertions. As in talking out your a$$. You know it, we know it, your pet dog knows it. But hey, whatever ya gotta do to “vote your conscience”…

    LBascom (b3f6be)

  95. well I’m a young squab amateur, admittedly, buchanan even in his bio, was still praises moises tsombe, of the renegade katanga region, as worthy of support, all a part of his view of anticommunism, which probably had a fair bit of influenced by james burnham,

    likewise, it’s important to understand how neocons came to their view of regime change, they found many of the regimes we had partnered with, in the great struggle, too fickle and brittle,

    narciso (732bc0)

  96. HRC is not going to catch her wind. The media, this tabula rasa included, are rabidly firing at will in an effort to prop up the zombie to somehow drag her tremor afflicted carcass across the finish.

    The Clinton Foundation will disgorge the worst news yet for the party of Jackson. Any remaining unity within the Borg will be undermined.

    DNF (ffe548)

  97. well never underestimate the captain tupolev wing of the stupid party, ‘I work here is done’ has been their boast in Minnesota, for reasons passing understanding,

    narciso (732bc0)

  98. Just like a lawyer, to make deals with the Devil.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  99. well I read turow, so I’m not surprised, as I’ve read lapidus, so stockholm doesn’t look as shiny, (he’s a lawyer for the independent entrepreneur, whose seem the role immigrants play in that trade)

    narciso (732bc0)

  100. 92. Schlafly is 92 nobody is older with the imprimatur of “conservative”. Picking at Buchanan’s lunacies simply evades the point, he also is old as dirt.

    John Birchers were the sort Buchanan hails from and when Goldwater crashed and burned, they were forced out the service entrance.

    #nevertrump has not done anything to establish their primacy on the Right, and no doubt will not rather than reveal they are at odds with the majority on make or break issues.

    This is the reason for the focus on personality, fundamental, congenital dishonesty, the very thing shared in common with the Clintons and JEF.

    DNF (ffe548)

  101. we know what to expect with red queen,

    http://libertyunyielding.com/2016/08/21/huma-abedin-worked-radical-muslim-journal-10-years/

    btw, shame on us, she made the same pledge on foreign donors at her confirmation hearing,

    narciso (732bc0)

  102. All people have inalienable rights, but not all people have the rights of American citizenship.

    This thread is about your statement that “We need someone to secure our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” Those are not rights of American citizenship. (Nor, for that matter, are any of the rights protected by the Bill of Rights linked to American citizenship.)

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  103. 103. Shame is for the little people.

    DNF (ffe548)

  104. DNF, you don’t understand the real divergence.
    One strand of conservative thought seeks to maintain the status quo, for which free markets and smaller government are the best means.
    The other wants free markets and smaller government, for which maintenance of the status quo is the best meanThe goal of each strand is the means of the other.
    Trumpers are one strand, neverTrumpers the other.
    Usually both strands can work together, but not thus time.
    And it is the neverTrumper strand which gave us the Revolution and Constitution. Which is why it has the primacy.

    kishnevi (0dce2b)

  105. we have been told the latter is true, but milton friedman told us the problem there, in addition there is michel’s rule of oligarchy that seems to obtain so they are going to need a better script.

    narciso (732bc0)

  106. a trip down memory lane, when he were all on the same page,

    https://patterico.com/2013/02/17/ted-cruzs-insinuation-that-hagel-took-money-from-questionable-groups/

    narciso (732bc0)

  107. 104- those are the rights the American President is charged with securing and protecting, for American citizens and those under American authority.

    LBascom (b3f6be)

  108. so I trust helen aguirre, who has taken considerable risk in just taking this post, over licensiado monty, who would appear to have a vested interest against trump.

    narciso (732bc0)

  109. Uh oh… Colin Powell is sick of “Hillary’s people trying to pin it [her email scandal} on me.
    The truth is she was using [her private email server] for a year before I told her what I did.”

    Powell indicated he did not instruct Clinton to use email, only conveyed to her his use of an AOL account for some of his non-classified communications.

    Vast right wing conspiracy just keeps growing.

    One other thing, since hubby Bill Clinton was — according to him — the “first black president”, will Hillary be the first black female president when she is elected? That would be doubly historic.

    Just sayin

    PTS (ce7fc3)

  110. I told you this was a story, that joe conason cooked up, because he though powell would go along as he did during benghazi, also he was also hacked by guccifer, early on, so the narrative would seem plausible,

    narciso (732bc0)

  111. I suggest that anyone planning to duplicate Hillary’s stunning success in cattle futures restrain themselves. Might want to give the commodities market a pass altogether as a matter of fact.

    http://www.barnhardt.biz/2016/08/19/toldya-zerohedge-reports-cattle-futures-market-disintegrating-delinking-from-cash/

    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

    LBascom (b3f6be)

  112. as the 9/11 commission this isn’t about native folk in central america,

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/21/fake-passports-for-isil-terrorists-found-in-greek-refugee-camps/

    narciso (732bc0)

  113. uh oh looks like smart money is saying there’s a real difference between doing stinkypig all up in it and electing Mr, Trump

    “The RIN market will cause a number of refinery bankruptcies… The domino effect of this will be that ‘big’ oil will sop up the bankrupt refineries, causing an oligopoly resulting in skyrocketing gasoline prices.” Icahn wrote in an Aug. 9 letter to Environmental Protection Agency administrators Gina McCarthy and Janet McCabe according to Bloomberg. Pointing out that independent refiners appear to be being penalized for something they cannot control, Icahn is holding out hope that Donald Trump will become President of the United States and stop the EPA regulations.

    oh my goodness look at how many jobs in texas gonna get nevertrumped so good

    principles lol

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  114. electing *Mr.* Trump i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  115. hey sore loser ted what did you do to stop stinkypig from raping the crap out of texas jobs

    mostly i sulked like a little girl while sponging off my grimacing harvardtrash sacky

    oh i see

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  116. 106. I’ll give you a chance to reformulate your contrast in a more lucid instantiation.

    I’m going to be interested to see a strain of conservatism traced back to the founders.

    DNF (ffe548)

  117. 106. A word of caution: The 2016 Zeitgeist is self-evidently one wherein the lumpen proletariat has measured the political class and found it thoroughly self-serving, focussed on tomorrow ignoring the day after.

    Government at all levels has failed and is the enemy of this people. Where you will find support for the status quo in all this I will be surprised.

    Please do not ignore Central Bank dynamics or ME adventurism with your answer.

    DNF (ffe548)

  118. I am quite content with a lumpen proletariat of roughly 9% of the last Presidential election’s participants which is what voted for Trump. Another 9% or less voted for Bernie. Both groups exist only because America is a compassionate nation.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. If something should cease to exist, it’s the Republican National Committee which allowed the chronic malcontents to become inflluential.

    nk (dbc370)

  120. 111. PTS (ce7fc3) — 8/21/2016 @ 9:28 pm

    Uh oh… Colin Powell is sick of “Hillary’s people trying to pin it [her email scandal} on me.

    The truth is she was using [her private email server] for a year before I told her what I did.”

    Powell indicated he did not instruct Clinton to use email, only conveyed to her his use of an AOL account for some of his non-classified communications.

    Powell has apparently now refreshed his memory and checked his records. At first he was uncertain.

    Latest news:

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/22/politics/colin-powell-rejects-clinton-email-defense/

    Powell made the comments at an event Saturday in East Hampton, New York on Saturday night, according to People magazine and the New York Post. He was responding to a New York Times report that revealed Clinton had told FBI investigators that Powell was the inspiration for her email set-up.

    Sammy Finkelman (882d94)

  121. 112.narciso (732bc0) — 8/21/2016 @ 9:51 pm

    joe conason cooked up, because he though powell would go along as he did during benghazi, also he was also hacked by guccifer, early on, so the narrative would seem plausible

    Yesterday, CBS Face the Nation I think it was attributed it to Joe Conason, but the New York Times reported in the Saturday edition that Hillary Clinton also told this to the FBI!!

    It seems like it was actually first reported online on Thursday, but it was not printed Friday, as would usually happen.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/19/us/politics/hillary-clinton-told-fbi-colin-powell-advised-her-to-use-private-email.html

    The headline in the printed paper (running across the middle of page A11) is:

    Clinton Told Investigators Powell Advised Her to Use Private Email, as He Did

    ————
    An account included
    in notes the F.B.I.
    gave to Congress

    ——————–

    Excerpts:

    Pressed by the F.B.I. about her email practices at the State Department, Hillary Clinton told investigators that former Secretary of State Colin L. Powell had advised her to use a personal email account.

    The account is included in the notes the Federal Bureau of Investigation handed over to Congress on Tuesday, relaying in detail the three-and-a-half-hour interview with Mrs. Clinton in early July that led to the decision by James B. Comey, the bureau’s director, not to pursue criminal charges against her.

    Separately, in a 2009 email exchange that also emerged during the F.B.I. questioning, Mrs. Clinton, who had already decided to use private email, asked Mr. Powell about his email practices when he was the nation’s top diplomat under George W. Bush, according to a person with direct knowledge of Mr. Powell’s appearance in the documents, who would not speak for attribution.

    The journalist Joe Conason first reported the conversation between Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Powell in his coming book about Bill Clinton’s postpresidency, “Man of the World: The Further Endeavors of Bill Clinton,” which The New York Times received an advanced copy of.

    Mr. Conason describes a conversation in the early months of Mrs. Clinton’s tenure at the State Department at a small dinner party hosted by Madeleine Albright, another former secretary of state, at her home in Washington. Henry Kissinger and Condoleezza Rice also attended.

    “Toward the end of the evening, over dessert, Albright asked all of the former secretaries to offer one salient bit of counsel to the nation’s next top diplomat,” Mr. Conason writes. “Powell told her to use her own email, as he had done, except for classified communications, which he had sent and received via a State Department computer.” …

    Mr. Powell’s office released a statement on Thursday night saying he had no recollection of the dinner conversation. He did write Mrs. Clinton an email memo, which may exist in the F.B.I. files, describing his use of his personal email account for unclassified messages “and how it vastly improved communications within the State Department,” the statement said.

    These FBI notes were given to Congress in the stgrictest confidence – if someone leaked to the New York Times, they violated an agreement, Congressional rules or ethics, and peobably the law.

    The New York Times, however, is sometimes the recipient of leaks – one reaosn they don’t like grand jury supoenas. Of course this should not have been given to members of Congress under these extremel;y retrictive rules.

    If this is true, they were quite right to leak it. If the Democrats gain control of the House of Represenatives, they’ll investigate the leak and try to punish the leakers.

    Sammy Finkelman (882d94)

  122. I did not expect Hillary Clinton tp do something like this. It’s not necessary for her – it’s icing on the cake. And it was not something she said in public, so she didn’t have to confirm it, although apparently she was already prepared to have this stiry appear in a book.

    But it was not necessary for her to say this to gain the respect of the people in the FBI.

    That measn she did lie to the FBI. It would be ery hard to prosecute – to prove that such a conversation with Colin Powell, where he volunteered something about his e-mail, did not take place, but if she told this lie, she may havew told other, more provable, ones.

    The solicited e-mail from Cllin Powellm with a description of what he did, did take place. Hillary Clinton was already planning to cover her tracks, long before anybody was around to raise an objection.

    This faking of events is not the first time the Clintons have done this. Bill Clinton and Sandy Burglar planend to get the 9/11 commission to say that he was responsible for some alert taht caused the Millenium bomber to be detected at the canadian border. The docuemnts that Sandy Berger qwas caught stealing from the National Archives (after people theer were already suspicious) was a copy, made for and destined for the 9/11 Commission, of teh Millenium After Action Report, which did contain any mention of any such thing. In taht case, he was removing evidence that something did NOT happen, but he could have removed otgher thinbgs befre, not to mention what might have been removed before he left the White House.

    Sammy Finkelman (882d94)

  123. Alexander Hamilton on immigration.

    http://founders.archives.gov/documents/Hamilton/01-25-02-0282

    “The opinion advanced in the Notes on Virginia2 is undoubtedly correct, that foreigners will generally be apt to bring with them attachments to the persons they have left behind; to the country of their nativity, and to its particular customs and manners. They will also entertain opinions on government congenial with those under which they have lived, or if they should be led hither from a preference to ours, how extremely unlikely is it that they will bring with them that temperate love of liberty, so essential to real republicanism? There may as to particular individuals, and at particular times, be occasional exceptions to these remarks, yet such is the general rule. The influx of foreigners must, therefore, tend to produce a heterogeneous compound; to change and corrupt the national spirit; to complicate and confound public opinion; to introduce foreign propensities. In the composition of society, the harmony of the ingredients is all important, and whatever tends to a discordant intermixture must have an injurious tendency.
    The United States have already felt the evils of incorporating a large number of foreigners into their national mass; it has served very much to divide the community and to distract our councils, by promoting in different classes different predilections in favor of particular foreign nations, and antipathies against others. It has been often likely to compromit the interests of our own country in favor of another. In times of great public danger there is always a numerous body of men, of whom there may be just grounds of distrust; the suspicion alone weakens the strength of the nation, but their force may be actually employed in assisting an invader.”

    LBascom (f8bfb8)

  124. Or even, you know, nominating a foreign born dude for president in the name of constitutionalism…

    LBascom (f8bfb8)

  125. I think we were discussing safeguards, to an unbridled executive earlier,

    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles//2016-08-22/obama-s-transgender-bathroom-policy-blocked-by-federal-judge

    narciso (732bc0)

  126. sometimes they really want to dissolve the people,

    What on earth are you on about? What conceivable objection could you have to this story? If this group is happy with its chairman and doesn’t want him to resign, how is that anyone else’s business? How does it show contempt for anyone, and even if it did, so what? Why shouldn’t they hold other people in contempt? What reason on earth do they have to respect whomever it is that you think they despise?

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  127. the people voted for brexit we can’t have that,

    narciso (732bc0)

  128. So what if the UK’s people voted for brexit? Why does that mean a European group can’t have a British chairman?

    Milhouse (5a188d)

  129. http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=365446

    Trump Pivoting to Eff Over His Voting Base on Deportation?

    Looks like.

    We are going to get Hillary Clintoon. One way or another.

    What I’m looking forward to is the Trumptards figuring out ways to describe how delightful it is to get reamed sideways with sandpaper.

    Steve57 (41f53d)

  130. It really infuriates me that for the very first time ever in the history of politics a candidate is flip-flopping and it had to be a Republican candidate. Very irritating.

    Rev. Hoagie® (0f4ef6) — 8/21/2016 @ 9:41 am

    I don’t lump you in with the others, Rev.

    Still, it’s not a matter of this being the first time a politician flip-flopping.

    The whole point, I was told, is that this isn’t a politician. He’s an outsider. A bold truth teller.

    Yeah, right.

    Steve57 (41f53d)


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