Patterico's Pontifications

7/28/2016

Guess Who Now Seems Serious and Non-Buffoonish? Joe Biden! Because Everything Is Relative

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:29 am

I am old enough to remember when the epitome of a clueless old white guy politician was Joe Biden. Now, Joe Biden stands on the floor of the Democrat convention and says things like this about another clueless old white guy politician:

“He [Donald Trump] has no clue about what makes America great,” Biden continued, adding, “Actually, he has no clue period.” At this point Biden’s speech was interrupted by enthusiastic delegates chanting, “Not a clue.”

Biden also talked about foreign policy saying, “No major party nominee in the history of this nation has ever known less or has been less prepared to deal with our national security.”

It’s remarkable that we have come to the point where we hear these things said by Joe Biden . . . and instead of saying: “You have got to be kidding me! You’re saying that about someone else?” our natural reaction is instead to shrug and say: “He’s not wrong.”

54 Responses to “Guess Who Now Seems Serious and Non-Buffoonish? Joe Biden! Because Everything Is Relative”

  1. It’s really not even close. Trump is the least informed presidential candidate in American history. By far. (OK, maybe Andrew Jackson came close. Maybe.)

    Patterico (bcf524)

  2. One thing’s for sure, Joe Biden is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  3. It’s remarkable that we have come to the point where we hear these things said by Joe Biden . . . and instead of saying: “You have got to be kidding me! You’re saying that about someone else?” our natural reaction is instead to shrug and say: “He’s not wrong.”

    I said months ago Biden would crush Trump had he chosen to run. He may be saddled with Obama’s mess, but he’s not a cold stone lawbreaker, as Hillary is. It’s why I couldn’t bear to watch Biden, nor Obama. I knew that regardless of the lies and distortions and horsehockey they spew on a regular basis, they potentially could say horrible things about the GOP nominee and not be dishonest.

    L.N. Smithee (397bcb)

  4. Ask yourself this: would you bet your life that Trump could find France on a map?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  5. #4 Kevin M,

    What the heck does finding France a map have to do with anything? Hillary can find France on a map — you want her as President? She can even reportedly find Benghazi on a map, too! But a lot of good that geographical knowledge did, huh?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  6. In what way can it be objectively determined that Trump is less informed than Obama was?

    Gerald A (945582)

  7. Greetings:

    Senator Joseph Biden (nom de Mafia, “Joey Plugs”) reminds me of a loudmouth guy that used to come into my father’s favorite bar, “Archer’s”. Once, when I was about seven, my father took me there on a Saturday afternoon to watch the then New York Giants’ baseball game on TV. I was sitting at the bar with my father, having my Coke with three cherries, when the loudmouth guy thought he saw an opportunity to insert himself into our afternoon. Over he comes, in his gladhanding way, and says way too loudly, “Well, Ted, are you going to introduce me to your boy-o?”


    Now, my father didn’t suffer, and had no intention of ever suffering, fools gladly. Taking a long pull on his Lucky Strike cigarette, and exhaling slowly, he answered, in that New York way, with a question, “What are you doing at this end of the bar?”

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  8. failmerica is a po-ass cowardly slutstate it has no business dealing with Europe and other similar countries all the way across the Great Water or the other Great Water

    this a lot cuts down on the amount of trivia a failmerican president needs to know

    as long as the next one understands how food stamps work, then he (or piggy) will have mastered all they need to know about economics, and if they hire some people what speak the spanish they’ll have pretty much nailed failmerica’s foreign relations

    let’s not over-complicate this dealio

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. #6, go refute #5.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  10. But to answer C.S. more directly,

    I cannot vote for Clinton for policy reasons. She’s terrible. But like most people who take care to be informed about the world, I have real trouble taking someone seriously who fails a test I would expect an average 5th grader to pass. Sure, he doesn’t need to know the Botswanan Minister of the Interior, or even find Botswana on a map (although I could), but not knowing where the major players are means your tactical judgement is worthless and your strategic judgement is suspect.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  11. Trump can’t find France on a map?

    Gerald A (945582)

  12. 7. At least your daddy took you to his bar. My grandfather was surprised to see that his 17 (or 18) year old son (my uncle) went to the same bar one night. Later that evening, my grandfather punched my uncle and told him never to go to his bar again.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  13. #10 Kevin M,

    It’s a benign hypothetical to assert that Trump can’t find France on a map. He’s probably traveled there more than anyone you or I know.
    Again, the flip side of your argument is that a politician who can find France on a map can facilitate good policy.
    Barack & Hillary ain’t done too good with all those places they can find on a map, right?
    And Hitler found France on a map — how’d that work out?

    A President Trump will have a ton of advisors regarding foreign policy.
    Anytime one of our diplomats goes overseas, the State Dept gives them a 50 page dossier on proper table manners, greetings, and everything under the sun to know about that country.

    There are writers who can’t spell or use proper punctuation to save their life. Hemingway could barely spell his own name correctly. But that doesn’t mean that the local spelling bee champ or grammar mistress is going to out-write him, wouldn’t you agree?
    Hemingway relied upon editors. Just as a President Trump will rely upon advisors to “edit” him.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  14. i thought my grandfather was a dick

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  15. oh. *is* a dick I mean… apparently he’s still alive

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  16. In what way can it be objectively determined that Trump is less informed than Obama was?

    Gerald A (945582) — 7/28/2016 @ 7:57 am

    Have you read anything he’s said or written?

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (ddead1)

  17. What the heck does finding France a map have to do with anything?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 7/28/2016 @ 7:55 am

    Because it demonstrates a base knowledge that we should require ANY presidential candidate to have. Does it mean that they automatically should be president, or would be a good one? No- its a minimum standard however.

    Its like saying we should make this guy a calculus professor but who cares if he knows algebra.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (ddead1)

  18. I am often surprised what people do not know. But I am generally not relying on them for my well-being, so it’s usually just their problem. But Trump appears to be fundamentally ignorant about the world. How can this NOT be a problem? Is it insurmountable? Now that this crappy choice has been forced on me, I have to deal with it and the alternative appears worse.

    Yes, I still hope that he is somehow replaced by a better candidate, or if elected, he is impeached for stupidity, but I guess I have to consider his aliteracy as less of an issue than Hillary’s terribleness.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  19. I expect that 10% of US adults cannot name the President.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  20. failmerica is a po-ass cowardly slutstate it has no business dealing with Europe and other similar countries all the way across the Great Water or the other Great Water

    this a lot cuts down on the amount of trivia a failmerican president needs to know

    as long as the next one understands how food stamps work, then he (or piggy) will have mastered all they need to know about economics, and if they hire some people what speak the spanish they’ll have pretty much nailed failmerica’s foreign relations

    let’s not over-complicate this dealio
    happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/28/2016 @ 8:01 am

    Yes yes!

    we don’t need our failamerican president to know much at all!

    as long as he gets those goldy sacks their money, that’s all the economics one needs

    we don’t need him to care about us

    just talk tough

    lies are a-ok too!

    making dumb great again

    sadfeet (93ad1b)

  21. In what way can it be objectively determined that Trump is less informed than Obama was?

    Gerald A (945582) — 7/28/2016 @ 7:57 am

    Have you read anything he’s said or written?

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (ddead1) — 7/28/2016 @ 8:29 am

    Yes. So give us a side by side comparison of his key statements with Obama’s. I remember Obama repeatedly saying Pak-ee-stan and Tal-ee-ban in 2008.

    Of course the single biggest problem with Democrats is that they “know” all kinds of stuff that’s not true, like climate change causes ISIS. Or the US being too strong causes all the world’s problems etc. Obama “knew” that stuff back in 2008, other than ISIS of course, though he kept most of the loonier stuff to himself.

    Gerald A (945582)

  22. In other news, Joe Biden cribbed a line in his speech from a Bill Clinton speech. How stunning.

    radar (14e3a6)

  23. #17 Patrick Henry,

    No, dude, we’re not electing someone President for their knowledge, rather, we’re electing them for their judgment and ideology.
    Again, Hitler found France on a map, but it was a disaster, huh?
    And Hillary (Yale Law!) and Barack (Harvard Law!) have been disasters in foreign policy.
    Barack lived several years in Indonesia and made that wonderful, swell speech in Cairo where he impressed everyone with his correct pronounciation of Pa-kee-stahn, among other things.
    It was a predicate to solving issues between the Muslim world and the West.
    How’s that working out?

    President Trump will delegate a lot of authority to people. His advisors will advise him on foreign policy.

    Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan were allegedly a couple of dummies. But they did alright in the foreign policy arena.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  24. Gerald A,

    I always keep in mind George Orwell’s famous line, “There are some ideas so absurd that only an intellectual could believe them.”
    Or how about William F Buckley’s line about preferring to be governed by the first 500 names in the telephone directory rather than the Harvard faculty.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  25. No, dude, we’re not electing someone President for their knowledge, rather, we’re electing them for their judgment and ideology.
    Again, Hitler found France on a map, but it was a disaster, huh?
    And Hillary (Yale Law!) and Barack (Harvard Law!) have been disasters in foreign policy.
    Barack lived several years in Indonesia and made that wonderful, swell speech in Cairo where he impressed everyone with his correct pronounciation of Pa-kee-stahn, among other things.
    It was a predicate to solving issues between the Muslim world and the West.
    How’s that working out?

    President Trump will delegate a lot of authority to people. His advisors will advise him on foreign policy.

    Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan were allegedly a couple of dummies. But they did alright in the foreign policy arena.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 7/28/2016 @ 10:32 am

    Except we ARE electing them for their knowledge. If they don’t know there isn’t an Article XII in the Constitution- you know the document they are sworn to uphold- their ideology and judgement is worthless because they do not have the knowledge to back it up.

    How can I trust someone who has no knowledge base to be able to pick some one to delegate to? How will they know if they are good or not? They won’t, because they have nothing to base their judgement on except feelings.

    Again, I’m not saying that having a knowledge base will guarantee a candidate will be good (which is the straw man you keep arguing), only that not having a knowledge base will guarantee they won’t be good.

    Nobody in their right mind would hire a CEO for Apple who doesn’t know what an iPhone is. But hiring someone who does know what an iPhone is doesn’t mean that CEO would be a great one.

    sadfeet (ddead1)

  26. No major party nominee in the history of this nation has ever known less or has been less prepared to deal with our national security.

    And Obama’s second banana knows just how well-prepared Hopenchange was for Messrs Putin, Khamenei and Assad.

    JP (66ce76)

  27. @14 Happyfeet

    God rest his soul.

    Pinandpuller (a12946)

  28. @15 Happyfeet

    Oops, God bless his soul.

    Pinandpuller (a12946)

  29. yes yes poor man

    blind and unloved at 97

    reap reap reap sow sow sow

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  30. #25 sadfeet,

    Knowledge does not equal good judgment.
    Each of the overly educated members of the Harvard faculty has great “knowledge.”
    But do you want them calling the shots?
    … neither did Bill Buckley.

    Thanks for playing!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  31. I take exception about the solon, he’s done enough things to warrant knave status, his endorsing an all out drone strategy over petraeus’s counterinsurgency, lost us afghanistan, he was a patron of the subprime cartel, aig to wachovia, his endorsement of a retreat from iraq, gave us islamic state, had agnew not broken the tie, his vote would have deprived of the alaskan pipeline, he pushed early for surveillance in electronic communication, he passed the violence against women act, that gave us kangaroo courts like uva and duke,

    narciso (732bc0)

  32. This could be trouble. Michelle Obama’s wiki says she went to Black Bigot high school. Graduated from Princeton as a sociology major with a minor in African American studies.

    Who would claim that if it wasn’t true?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  33. ‘I am old enough to remember when the epitome of a clueless old white guy politician was Joe Biden.’

    Ugh. I am old enough to remember the epitome of a clueless old white guy politician was Barry Goldwater. Followed closely by Spiro T. Agnew.

    The collectible Spiro Agnew watch literally ran backwards. The paperback titled ‘The Wit And Wisdom of Spiro T. Agnew’ was literally 150 blank pages. A well worn Joe Biden Amtrak rail pass might fetch $3 someday.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  34. #32 papertiger,

    Barack Obama’s wiki entry says he attended Columbia as a Poli Sci major, yet nobody can recall him being in their class.
    It’s so strange.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  35. It gets worse from there. Her career tragictory is the dogs breakfast of ping ponging from one special pleading black grievance shakedown to the next culminating in starting her own non profit after alienating the other grief mongers.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  36. what was agnew’s unforgivable son, some dairy producers ponied up some pin money, the bankers that crashed the global financial system had the solon and zaphod in their front pocket, the ones who wrote sutton dilliger, as i’ve dubbed the gosplan which did not to prevent mf global

    narciso (732bc0)

  37. I wasn’t aware that Neil Kinnock had an opinion about Trump.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  38. Sometime after 1991~92 Michelle discovered that it was easier just to point at a business, say “racism”, then mau mau money directly out of their pockets. So her law licence lapsed.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  39. She took a non/op registration on her law practice.

    What you have to renew it every year like car registration?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  40. well she got a sweet gig, funnelling chicago hospitals into other more overwhelmed facilities,

    narciso (732bc0)

  41. Her high school was built on the ruins left behind by the riots after the MLK assassination.

    Guess what her answer will be to which and whatever criticism?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  42. sadfeet (ddead1) — 7/28/2016 @ 11:19 am

    If they don’t know there isn’t an Article XII in the Constitution- you know the document they are sworn to uphold-

    There is an Article XII.

    But it’s not part of the Bill of Rights.

    http://www.americasfreedom.com/us-constitution/article12.html

    Sammy Finkelman (372aad)

  43. Of course, that website is missing parts of the constitution. (from the first Article IV tthriugh the first 3 of the Bill of the Rights)

    Sammy Finkelman (372aad)

  44. Trump doesn’t need to know where France is on the map. France needs to know where Trump is on the map.

    AZ Bob (1b9c4b)

  45. I have heard of Trump being asked to find France on a map and failing.
    The voter for the who started this should correct the record by saying that it was his own opinion Trump couldn’t find France on a map; because favorite Ted Cruz is a principled man.

    steveg (fed1c9)

  46. Knowledge does not equal good judgment.
    Each of the overly educated members of the Harvard faculty has great “knowledge.”
    But do you want them calling the shots?
    … neither did Bill Buckley.

    Thanks for playing!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 7/28/2016 @ 12:03 pm

    Again you are arguing a straw man. I’m not saying knowledge equals good judgment. I’m saying that you can only have good judgment if you have knowledge, and you can’t have good judgment if you don’t have knowledge.

    Just because someone has knowledge doesn’t automatically mean they will have good judgment, so I will have to use other means to select the best one. But I will eliminate those who don’t have knowledge.

    So Trump is eliminated because he has no knowledge. Clinton has knowledge, but she has bad judgment so she is eliminated. Same with Johnson.

    I’m guessing you don’t have the knowledge if logic which is why you keep arguing a straw man.

    So thanks for playing!

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (ddead1)

  47. Clinton has knowledge

    Here’s Hillary crowd surfing at the end of the DNC. (YouTube)

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  48. You all know that C-SPAN has video of all the major speeches from the RNC and DNC.

    Check this out. https://www.c-span.org/convention/?party=dnc

    They split them up by Day 1, Day 2, and so on, with a corresponding button.

    The only button that works is the “Day 1″ button.

    So if you wanted to review the President or Vice President’s speech (which were both chock full of bare faced lies, laughably easy to fisk),
    And you hadn’t already visited that site, so the reference is in your search history,

    you are S-O-L.

    Those buttons all functioned up until yesterday.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  49. Here is the Biden speech from the working ULR

    https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4611410/vice-president-joe-biden

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  50. Here’s Trump talking about Paris. (YouTube) Which is almost like knowing where France is.

    He has his own plane. He hired the pilot, and one of the first questions on the want ad, “Do you know where France is?”

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  51. papertiger (c2d6da) — 7/29/2016 @ 5:31 pm

    They are still accessible. Go all the way down past the featured videos to the daily schedule bar, pick the day you want, then scroll down through the list to reach the speech you want.

    kishnevi (bf220b)

  52. Oh good. Because I had missed Cecile Richard’s speech.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  53. Obama seems to think media bias will get him elected and he needs the realize this isn t 1992 and he isn t headed for a Clintonation and a crown. This isn’t a gaffe… in the context of a political campaign, I think it goes without saying that a “contest” involving “questions about, you know, who has been promulgating negative ads” would be won by the person who hasn’t been running the negative ads.

    Harold Terrien (da1da3)


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