Patterico's Pontifications

7/15/2016

Trump Selects Pence

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:48 am



[guest post by Dana]

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The official public announcement will be made tomorrow, reportedly in New Jersey.

–Dana

191 Responses to “Trump Selects Pence”

  1. No comment from Newt. Perhaps because he is busily writing up a detailed Facebook post attempting to clarify his “religious test” comments from last night which we all got wrong.

    And nothing from Chris Christie.

    Dana (995455)

  2. This is so good how he chose Mr. Governor Pence instead of Sarah Palin. I think this says good things about Mr. Trump’s judgment and wisdoms.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  3. Christie probably is glad someone else gets to do the Burger King run.

    kishnevi (86e9bc)

  4. the quality of Burger King food items is very slapdash and inconsistent

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  5. Now the serious comment…
    What sort of role does Pence think he will have in a Trump administration? What sort of role does Trump think Pence will have? (The two are not necessarily the same.). Is Pence merely window dressing aimed at suckering in conservatives or will he be given real powers and responsibilities?

    I realize that no real answer to that question can be given this early on.

    kishnevi (86e9bc)

  6. His role will be identical to that of Henry Tingle Wilde through November 8. Dunno what he will do afterwards.

    Rick Ballard (580868)

  7. Just don’t do it with the GW bridge in the background – Christie might cry or call for a favor from one particular judge friend.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  8. This is a lesser-of-two-evils election, and selecting Pence seems like a big step in reducing the evil on the GOP side, given that Pence is experienced in government and should appeal to folks like Cruz and Lee. I would love to be a fly on the wall as Cruz and Trump discuss how to deal with Trump’s stoking of conspiracy theories about Cruz’s father and Oswald; Trump would probably point out that Cruz spread withdrawal rumors about Ben Carson during the primaries, so all’s fair. Hopefully they can get past that stuff. If not, the Pence selection may be for naught, which would be quite tragic given the incompetence (never mind the lawlessness and arrogance) of Hillary Clinton.

    Andrew Hyman (b12b60)

  9. If I were Pence, I would demand a signed contract with a number of witnesses before I trusted that Trump’s decision was final.

    Dana (995455)

  10. Yeah, because we all know what a contract with Trump is worth, witnesses or not.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  11. A big, big mistake.

    Should have been Jeff Sessions or Michael Flynn. Instead, Trump chose a VP who vehemently opposes Trump’s most popular policies.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  12. “the quality of Burger King food items is very slapdash and inconsistent”

    You nailed it.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  13. Seems like it was only yesterday I was saying that Trump was improvising, stumbling, inept — blowing the stage management for his campaign’s most significant “reveal” between now and Election Day, his selection as Veep. In particular I mocked Trump for canceling today’s planned media roll-out of his selection on the dubious grounds that some terrorist whackjob in a truck in coastal France can, all by himself, disrupt the planned media roll-out of the GOP nominee-presumptive’s Veep choice. This is all showmanship, I was told — Trump is milking it, waiting to pick his shot.

    So, his surprise leaked and then upstaged by his own campaign, he announces his pick today anyway.

    On Twitter. Oh yes — grand showmanship and high drama — so long as it fits in 140 characters or less.

    Not merely sad. Beyond pathetic.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  14. The announcement today is fine and in good taste. He didn’t allow ISIS, to control the date of his announcement, but in deference to the casualties will have the news conference tomorrow.

    Of course, hundreds of civilians are routinely killed in Syria and Iraq but the Obama administration has conditioned the country to not much care. But the reverberations are inevitably felt, e.g. Germany unilaterally accepts hundreds of thousands of unscreened refugees who can then travel freely within the EU, and the U.K. responds with Brexit.

    Andrew Hyman (b12b60)

  15. Well Trump won’t have to tone Pence down. For one.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  16. P.S. I don’t tweet myself, but wouldn’t fault Trump for doing so. Verbosity is not a virtue, and keep in mind that Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations is full of wisdom condensed to 140 characters or less.

    Andrew Hyman (b12b60)

  17. “Instead, Trump chose a VP who vehemently opposes Trump’s most popular policies.”

    Those policies are old chump bait and the hook is already well set with initial suckers. New chump bait is obviously necessary if Trump is to get above 42. Pence is just chum – wait ’til you see the YUUUGE! new bait! Trump is going to employ every bit of the fantastic casino management skill he employed in New Jersey to make the rest of his campaign as big a success as the Taj Mahal!!!

    Rick Ballard (580868)

  18. @ kish (#5), for what they’re worth, below are my suggested answers to your questions. (I’ve broken them up into separate paragraphs and italicized your questions. My answers follow in brackets:

    What sort of role does Pence think he will have in a Trump administration? [It doesn’t matter what Pence thinks; accepting the nomination would be his last meaningful decision unless and until they’re elected and Trump vacates the presidency. Constitutionally the vice presidency really isn’t worth a warm bucket of p*ss, and no Veep has any power, or even semblance of power, that’s not entirely derivative of his POTUS and subject to revocation at said POTUS’ whim. Can we think of any potentially whimsical presidents? It doesn’t matter what the Veep nominee expects, nor even what he has been promised. Even JFK promised LBJ that LBJ have a big role as Veep, when he was twisting LBJ’s arm to accept at the 1960 Democratic National Convention. As majority leader of the Senate, Johnson was then arguably the second most powerful man in Washington already, behind only Ike. At one level LBJ actually bought into JFK’s promises that he would be JFK’s point man on Capitol Hill — a fantasy that didn’t survive the first week of the JFK Administration. The real reason LBJ took the nomination, or that any Veep has ever done so, is that it puts one a heartbeat from the presidency — an attribute that entirely theoretical, until it’s suddenly spectacularly and uniquely consequential.]

    What sort of role does Trump think Pence will have? [None, other than going to funerals and other public appearances, at all of which, including the funerals, he’ll be expected to sing Trump’s praises. Pence will make no waves, reassure some who need reassuring, genuinely smooth Trump’s convention path, and thereafter staying almost entirely out of the spotlight. Trump hogs every stage and always will.]

    Is Pence merely window dressing aimed at suckering in conservatives[?] Yes, and reassuring those like me who are concerned about presidential succession.]

    [O]r will he be given real powers and responsibilities? [If so, only on matters that Trump considers inconsequential; because Trump is whimsical, it’s conceivable that by accident, Trump might delegate something actually consequential that Trump doesn’t particularly care about].

    Beldar (fa637a)

  19. Trump is no fool, not wanting to be the heartbeat between Newt and the Presidency.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  20. New chump bait is obviously necessary

    Before this is over, the “wall” will be for keeping the illegals from leaving.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  21. the quality of Burger King food items is very slapdash and inconsistent

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 7/15/2016 @ 8:57 am

    One of those rare times I agree with you. Burger King has become just nasty.

    On a more serious subject, I was noticing over at Breitbart that there were several commenters agitating for someone else other than Pence, for various reasons. Heads must have asploded collectively as this announcement was made. I wonder what the Cult of Trump thinks of their Chosen One now? Trump needed someone like Pence to tone the tone the act down some, make him more palatable to the masses, and bring in some badly needed experience in running a government. I STILL ain’t voting for Trump, but Pence does make him a bit more rational.

    Bill H (971e5f)

  22. Trump continues to demonstrate that he has lost all ability to control the tempo of his campaign. Wrong footed again.

    SPQR (9e49e7)

  23. It’s pretty bad when you realize that John McCain would have been more exciting. Pence brings nothing AT ALL to the ticket. Not even Indiana. Beldar is right. Trump can’t stand another actor on stage.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  24. BK has been going downhill ever since they became one of the more enthusiastic adopters of the old 1990s Welfare-To-Work and MRDD personnel pipelines. They’ve gone back to a more McDonalds-like model, but I dont think they ever recovered. That and their ever changing menu is textbook Mission Creep.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  25. Their prices are too low. It’s weird. They should focus more on food quality (which is to say staff who know how to cook the food).

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  26. “Voodoo economics.”

    Pence is a good choice. Very good. From any perspective, except impeachment/assassination insurance. I wish he were at he top of the ticket.

    nk (dbc370)

  27. It may not matter…

    Colonel Haiku (0490b7)

  28. Basically, from Trump’s view, Mike Pence has just been handed the “Miss Congeniality” title. From Pence’s view, the ribbon actually reads “First Runner Up,” which is the reason he accepted.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  29. are they frying the chicken, coronello, because this has gone to eleventy,

    narciso (732bc0)

  30. Col. H, you’re certainly right: It may not matter.

    But compared to Jesse Ventura or Mark Cuban or some of the retired generals whose names have been floated, I think this selection will in fact shore up Trump’s GOP support at the margins. It will be just enough of an example of a non-crazy decision for some voters to gulp, hold their noses, scowl in Hillary’s general direction, and cast a vote for Trump.

    For that same reason and purpose, I think he should also devote the entire first night of the convention to a ceremony in which Trump signs a literal blood oath, using his own blood as the ink, by which he promises the GOP and the American public exactly whom, by name, he intends to nominate as Scalia’s successor, with a short list of other candidates among whom he promises to choose to fill the next three vacancies thereafter. He can have balloons and fake-breasted women in skimpy outfits or however he wants to hype it for maximum PR.

    It still couldn’t be legally binding or enforceable, of course, and I value Trump’s word at less than zero. But the one thing every con man is supposed to be good at is delivering the “You can trust me!” pitch, and he’s still got work to do, among RNC delegates no less than among the public at large.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  31. Hillary has already tweeted that Pence is “dangerous.”

    If only she would use such tough language when characterizing jihadists.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  32. That Cruz tweet is by far the least problematic one Pence has to disavow, his support for TPP and anti-Muslim ban comments far more problematic.

    Given that Pence is the master of halfhearted endorsements of Establishment policies, however, I predict that his disavowals of Cruz, TPP, and Muslims will be just the greatest disavowals you’ve ever seen, really, great, as they’ll spring from his own opinions rather than his need to maneuver.

    Dystopia Max (76803a)

  33. Yeah, because we all know what a contract with Trump is worth, witnesses or not.

    Leviticus (efada1) — 7/15/2016 @ 9:19 am

    I guess it would be accurate to say that when we’re talking about Trump, a contract, a verbal commitment, a public announcement and tweet are all suspect. Until an actual oath of office is administered, best that Pence keep his options open.

    Dana (995455)

  34. (apologies to Tom Lehrer)

    Whatever became of Cuddles?
    Has anyone heard a thing?
    Once he shone on his own,
    Now he sits home alone,
    And waits for the phone to ring.

    Once a boring centrist spirit,
    Ah, but now when he speaks he must clear it.
    Second fiddle’s a hard part, I know,
    When they don’t even give you a bow.

    “We must protest his treatment,” Cuddles,
    Says each #NeverTrump voter
    As someone remarked to muggles
    Trunp is a dementor

    (Sorry about that)

    Whatever became of Cuddles?
    We miss you, so tell us please.
    Are you sad? Are you cross? Are you gathering moss
    While you wait for the boss to sneeze?

    Does Donald, recalling when he was a lad,
    Say, “I’ll do unto you like my dear old dad?”
    Do you dream about staging a coup?
    Cuddles, what happened to you?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  35. Bad Cop for Prez… Good Cop for VP!

    Colonel Haiku (0490b7)

  36. I like Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn for his foreign policy insights and Sen. Jeff Sessions for being awesome.

    However, Gov. Michael Pence is a good public speaker, at least (better than Flynn in particular), and should help win the all-important rust belt. I don’t like him as President nearly as much, but I don’t think his selection, for political reasons, is irrational.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  37. Mr. Pence is for sure the best choice of all!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  38. Is Pence merely window dressing aimed at suckering in conservatives or will he be given real powers and responsibilities?

    There’s never been a Veep with real powers. I don’t see how that’s even possible. Occasionally they have some responsibilities, like Bush. Gore had his “reinventing government” thing which was small potatoes.

    Gerald A (945582)

  39. “Mr. Pence is for sure the best choice of all!”

    LOL, no.

    I just don’t want to start drinking this early.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  40. I guess a couple of months riding around on the Trump plane is better than losing reelection in Indiana.

    Ghost Rider (577e96)

  41. Someone already referenced “voodoo economics” as a reminder that whatever Trump’s flaws–and they are legion–it’s pretty ridiculous to mock him for choosing a VP who was clearly not in his corner all along: that’s pretty much the definition of normal in a presidential race.

    M. Scott Eiland (1edade)

  42. Pence or no Pence:


    Will Trump Win in a Blowout? (It’s the National Security, Stupid)

    by Roger L Simon

    The reason should be evident. This is going to be a national security election. I started writing this article before the horrifying news started coming in from Nice, but even then the situation couldn’t have been more obvious. As anyone paying the slightest attention knows, Islamic fundamentalism is at war with Western civilization. It’s not just ISIS, but unfortunately many continually metastasizing organizations based on the same ideology. (Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula recommended using a truck as was employed in the Nice attack in its magazine Inspire in an article titled “The Ultimate Mowing Machine.”)

    Texas Father and Son Among Dead in France Terror Attack

    Barack Obama’s response to our civilizational enemy has been a disaster….

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  43. Alice Roosevelt Longworth famously quipped of her father, Theodore (aka Teddy) Roosevelt, Jr.: “My father always wanted to be the corpse at every funeral, the bride at every wedding and the baby at every christening.”

    Trump has ten times Roosevelt’s ego with one one-thousandth the justification for it, so that pretty much explains the Pence Veep pick.

    I’m not complaining — as I’ve said, I feared he’d do much, much worse.

    But my dear lord, the Trumpkins are foolish and gullible folk, to be able to pretend that everything is unfolding according to Trump’s master plan.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  44. Trump’s master plan.

    Heh.

    Dana (e31ba5)

  45. “But my dear lord, the Trumpkins are foolish and gullible folk, to be able to pretend that everything is unfolding according to Trump’s master plan.”

    There has been strategy involved, obviously. That he lucked into the nomination and, probably, Presidency is a little hard to swallow.

    It helps that his opponent isn’t very good.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  46. @ Rick Ballard (#6): Very droll, definitely worth my time to google. Thanks. 😉

    Beldar (fa637a)

  47. @ Andrew Hyman (#16): I’d argue with you about Twitter — and you surely know better than to compare Trump’s tweets to Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations, for pete’s sake! sad! — but I need to go chase some kids off my lawn.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  48. This is McKinley-Roosevelt in reverse or switched up. Either Trump gets offed by bad guy du jour or he tires of office and goes to _______ athrust a tank or one of his polo steeds.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  49. I remember when Ronald Reagan tweeted:

    Mr. Gorbachev, tear down that wall! http://tinyurl.com/ozv9jfh #TearDown #MrSplotchyBirthmark

    Tears me up every time, to remember that. Sort of like when George Washington tweeted:

    Gentlemen, you will permit me to put on my spectacles, for I have not only grown gray but almost blind in the service of my country. http://tinyurl.com/3qr3o3n #FoundingFather #AllColonistsMatter

    Beldar (fa637a)

  50. Self-awareness Beldar. Brief comments in blog threads ridicule brief comments on Twitter? 😜

    Andrew Hyman (b12b60)

  51. Nobody forces you to use more than 140 characters on a blog. Concision is fine, if generally not my long suit.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  52. “I remember when Ronald Reagan tweeted”

    Ronald Reagan was a great communicator. Why wouldn’t he have used Twitter?

    P.S. I’m sure he would have seen the value in retweets.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  53. Denver Guy (21d3a4) — 7/15/2016 @ 2:59 pm

    Ronald Reagan was a great communicator. Why wouldn’t he have used Twitter?

    No chance for re-writing. Too spontaneous. Of course Hillary Clinton is not spontaneous at all, and Twitter can be done that way.

    Ronald Reagan did ad lib sports broadcasts when he was doing them, around 1935. He would, I think “re-create” them as he got news bulletins and used that to call the play-by-play.

    Sammy Finkelman (372aad)

  54. It’s one thing to “use Twitter.” All modern candidates use social media. Ted Cruz certainly did, and well.

    But it’s another thing entirely to build your entire campaign around it like Trump has done/continues to do/seems likely to do.

    And that whole ‘nuther thing is one of which I disapprove, as I’ve told those kids on my lawn repeatedly. Again, this was the single most consequential “reveal” any presidential candidate can ever stage manage. That’s been true since at least the early 19th Century, social media or quill pens.

    And Trump muffed this.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  55. Grain of Salt, but it’s the sane floors of Rockefeller Plaza:
    http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/15/trump-was-reportedly-calling-people-at-midnight-asking-if-he-could-change-vp-pick.html

    urbanleftbehind (9f5ab9)

  56. You want to talk about stage-managing your entire campaign effectively?

    Look at Eisenhower, 1952: “I shall go to Korea.” That guy had such incredible credentials, experience, and gravitas that merely with that simple assurance, the whole country instantly presumed: “Ike will fix this Korea thing. Not like Truman.”

    Beat that with Twitter.

    Showmanship and political stagecraft isn’t something Trump invented. He just exploiting the most sensational and crass version of it to good effect against a fragmented field.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  57. “But it’s another thing entirely to build your entire campaign around it like Trump has done/continues to do/seems likely to do.”

    Well, gee. Heaven forbid he should dominate an inexpensive, powerful new media.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  58. Anyway, Trump’s tweeting the Pence nomination makes sense because he’d postponed his press conference due to the Nice attack, but there was tremendous speculation among Trump’s supporters about whether he was going to go with someone else other than the signaled Mike Pence.

    By tweeting it out right away, at least his supporters don’t feel they were jerked around by Trump, even if they don’t agree with his call.

    I, for one, respect that. And I don’t agree with his call.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  59. 55. He was? Why didn’t he do it? Who’s the boss? He didn’t formally offer it, so who would he betray? It could be that Trump was actually being manipulated into this pick by the leak and by Pence.

    The CBS Evening News reported today that Trump was unhappy about the leak and wonderedif some eople on Penc’s staff had done it. Yes, but also people working for Trump who had told people connected with convention arrangemets. But Trump hadn’t told anyone to say anything. I think Trump maybe made this tweet at 11 am today because Pence told him that if he didn’t announce it publicly, he, Pence, was going to run for Governor and not Vice President. I wonder if we can get the full story.

    Pence, or some political aides to Trump?

    You better hurry ’cause it’s going fast!

    People hate doors that are closing, even in computer games.

    Sammy Finkelman (372aad)

  60. While we can certainly argue the merits of Twitter and/or the disintegration of thoughtful and expressive speech, I don’t think the vast majority of people care, or, for that matter, care about this bungle. We’re well past that, and right now, likely most, including Trumpers, are trying to find out just who Mike Pence is.

    Dana (995455)

  61. ? Who better? Only Kasich because OHIO! On the other hand, Pence has better conservative credentials and is more likely to be loyal to Trump. Both have good resumes as governors with Washington experience.

    The generals? That would have been a joke.

    nk (dbc370)

  62. @ Dana (#60): Yup, this is just one bungle in a jungle of bungles, today’s collision in the clown car campaign.

    The weekend should indeed be spent on getting the country better acquainted with him, I agree entirely.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  63. He needed Col. West. This man knows the enemy better than anyone. And the Koran.

    mg (31009b)

  64. “I think Trump maybe made this tweet at 11 am today because Pence told him that if he didn’t announce it publicly, he, Pence, was going to run for Governor and not Vice President.”

    Very likely. Pence’s main job will be calling major donors who have steadfastly refused to stain themselves through association with a loser. He needs an extraordinarily target to be successful.

    Rick Ballard (580868)

  65. …extraordinarily low target…

    Rick Ballard (580868)

  66. Re #58 above, which asserts: “Trump’s tweeting the Pence nomination makes sense because he’d postponed his press conference due to the Nice attack ….”

    That’s a complete non sequitur. The reason he supposedly postponed his press conference in New York today was because attention being paid to the Nice attack would have detracted from the media impact of this announcement, which was clearly originally intended to dominate the weekend news cycle.

    So either he should have withheld any formal announcement, or he should have gone ahead and had the press conference today, as originally planned, in full confidence that he could both do that and make political hay by using the Nice attack as another data point in the attack on Obama/Clinton foreign policy.

    And yeah, along with national TV facetime that would be replayed ceaselessly all weekend, along with live coverage on every network, he could have also put out a nice Tweet or two about Pence.

    Instead he dribbles this out like a little pischer, on Twitter.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  67. And Trump muffed this.

    He didn’t muff it. He got overriden by the atrocity in Nice, and now the coup in Turkey will knock out whatever he planned for tomorrow.

    And as others noted Gov. Pence had a very hard deadline today–12 noon–to decide which office to run for.

    The media can not multitask. Trump knows this as well as anyone and did the best he could in the circumstances.

    kishnevi (fb4c79)

  68. I will concede that a photo op would have been nice, but not that this is a big deal. Trump’s doing alright.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  69. Clearly Trump didn’t know what to do. Today is also the designated Day of Rage, where, all across America, Black Lives Matter groups and affiliates are protesting police brutality, etc. Unfortunately, thanks to Trump’s veep announcement blunder, the terror attack in France, and now the possible coup in Turkey, coverage of the event has been thwarted. I’m not seeing anything about it at the big three print media outlets.

    Trump can be useful. Even if it’s a result of his stumbles.

    Dana (995455)

  70. Kish, Ronald Reagan would have held the press conference, and used whatever world event had just hit the news to help him make his intended points even more effectively.

    You think no one was planning to show up at the press conference to reveal the GOP vice presidential nominee-presumptive for 2016? Seriously?

    In the information age, the media swarms. But it certainly also multitasks. A leader can use that. A leader shouldn’t have to stumble around waiting for a nice day to be on TV.

    Trump’s not a leader, he’s a self-promoter. I guess a self-promoter might wait for a nice day to be on TV, one in which all the Muslim terrorists around the world have taken the day off.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  71. Maybe Trump wanted Pence’s announcement to be anticlimactic since he knew it would disappoint much of his base, but the word would seep out to the Ted Cruz supporters.

    Or maybe it was a screw-up. Either way, he’s doing well.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  72. “the whole country instantly presumed: “Ike will fix this Korea thing. Not like Truman.”

    And then, with thousands of American lives wasted and ruined later, he didn’t actually um, fix it. At all. Nor did he ever need to. “Hi this is Fools’ Errand Central, can I please speak to General Ike?” Korea was not our problem, never was, never will be. [Except for animation executives and car salesmen.] Not a single American teenager’s blood (yeah, you heard me, teenagers, little boys, and blood) was worth doing anything to ‘fix this Korea thing.’

    Also, switching the subject, by picking Pence, Trump just lost the election. I thought he was smarter than this, but guess not.

    Have a fun civil war with Hitlery! Thanks for nothing, Donald!

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  73. Trump RCP Average

    May 15 41.6
    June 15 38.3
    July 15 40.4

    Clinton RCP Average

    May 15 47.3
    June 15 44.1
    July 15 43.1

    Clinton doing poorly ≠ Trump doing well.

    The Bag Lady fell in the only pile of Comey she will encounter before November 8. She is definitely stinking from it but the MFM has a tanker full of Febreeze on hand – plus a fog machine, a thousand yards of gauze and hundreds of vats of Vaseline to coat the lenses for closeups.

    Rick Ballard (580868)

  74. “Also, switching the subject, by picking Pence, Trump just lost the election. I thought he was smarter than this, but guess not.”

    I hope you’re wrong. I think events may carry Trump across the finish line, but I don’t think Pence was near his best choice.

    However, he seems popular here, so it remains to be seen come election day.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  75. Also, switching the subject, by picking Pence, Trump just lost the election.

    Huh?

    Gerald A (76f251)

  76. “Huh?”

    It’s a weak pick. Pence opposes Trump’s policies on a Muslim immigration ban, TPP, etc.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  77. “I hope you’re wrong.”

    Well, I hope I am, too. I don’t frankly know much about Pence, but that’s sort of the point, he’s kind of a nobody, which greatly diminishes Trump’s curb appeal, which is based largely on alpha charisma and a clear-eyed view of the nation’s issues. Choosing Pence shows VERY poor judgment.

    At least not Gingrich, which would have been an epic train wreck. (Also that’s an even worse logo, a MUCH worse logo, than Hitlery’s already ludicrously stupid FedEx ripoff one, which makes my heart sink because it shows such glaringly poor judgment. The Trump/Pence logo is one of the most visually illiterate things I’ve ever seen in my life. (Guys! I’m available! If you want to win, at least talk to somebody who isn’t a retard!) But here’s the subterranean point: in order to have even a trace of a chance of winning against the relentless crooked machinations of the Clinton/DNC machine, Trump will need a ferociously good ground game. I mean organized resistance on the most basic levels: security to prevent voter intimidation at the polling stations (which will happen on a mass scale), and polling supervisors to make sure pro-Trump votes don’t get shredded or sent directly to Antarctica, and mysterious millions of bags of Dem votes are suddenly discovered in car trunks and potato bins. Maybe Pence can deliver that ground game; if he’s the governor of a major swing state, then maybe he knows how the game of thrones is actually played. Right now Trump has major charismatic and substantive wind in his sails, but zero ground game. If he really thinks he wants to win this…. call me, dude.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  78. It’s a weak pick. Pence opposes Trump’s policies on a Muslim immigration ban, TPP, etc.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4) — 7/15/2016 @ 5:38 pm

    Who’s going to care about that, or even knows about it (that was planning to vote for Trump)?

    Gerald A (76f251)

  79. Well, Trump is running on national security and economic protectionism, so a lot of people, I assume.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  80. Jesus Christ could step down straight off the cross proclaiming the constitution as Holy Scripture, and Beldar would complain about His hair cut.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  81. Seriously. Trump just lost the election by selecting not Pence, but that hideous and incomprehensible logo. I really thought he knew better than that. Oh well.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  82. Trump doesn’t do much in the way of logos—just his name in capital letters. It’s worked so far.

    Now he’s adding PENCE.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  83. “Trump doesn’t do much in the way of logos — just his name in capital letters.” [ED. — As if that wasn’t a really smart, deliberate choice to begin with. Which it absolutely was.] “It’s worked so far.” [ED. — Proving my point.] “Now he’s adding PENCE.” No, that’s not what he’s doing. You can’t see what it is he’s doing, and why it’s awful.

    You’re blind, my friend. You don’t understand a damn thing about visual design, how it works, what it means, how it signifies.

    This is a train wreck. If he doesn’t switch course, it will cost him the election.

    I know what I’m talking about.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  84. Trump/Pence 16 – what?

    ‘oh look. PT supports TP ‘

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  85. Really. It is one of the worst visual designs I have ever seen in my life. And visual design, what it is, what it does, how it works, is a thing I unfortunately know rather a lot about.

    The man who made a hit show out of “The Apprentice” signed off on this idiocy?

    It’ll sink him. I’m stunned.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  86. Is there an upside for Pence? From Rich Lowry:

    So what is he thinking? It seems simple: He just went from having some significant chance of losing his governor’s race to having some significant chance of being the next Vice President. That’s a pretty big swing to the upside. He also must figure that even if Trump loses, he may be ahead of the game for 2020 as a former vice presidential candidate compared even to a sitting governor of Indiana. So it is all upside. This is where he is probably mistaken. Even assuming no debacle while he’s on the ticket, being the #2 on a losing presidential ticket is not a great career enhancer (see Joe Lieberman, for example) and

    Dana (995455)

  87. Well, Trump is running on national security and economic protectionism, so a lot of people, I assume.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4) — 7/15/2016 @ 5:46 pm

    Why does it follow that people who like Trump knows or care what Pence’s positions are? No one who is voting for Trump because of those things cares what Pence’s positions are even if they’re aware of them. The Vice President doesn’t do anything. What has Biden done? Any recollections? He picked Pence to shore up his support among social conservatives.

    Gerald A (76f251)

  88. I’m really happy about Trump selecting Pence for VP. It ensures my indifference to this election.

    TheNaBr (0c7c2f)

  89. http://theaccidentalmarketer.com/media/2016/03/Trump-logo-300×300.png

    Cut the “Donald”. Add a star. Then paste on “Pence”.

    Next question?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  90. Mike Pence made this speech (YouTube) when the Democrat had seized control of both Houses of Congress, threatening the nation with an Obama rubber stamp.

    There was a time when opposition to socialism was Joe the Plumber, the Tea Party Patriots, and Mike Pence.

    You Johnny Come Latelies would do well to remember that.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  91. “There was a time when opposition to socialism was Joe the Plumber, the Tea Party Patriots, and Mike Pence.”

    The weird thing though, of course, is that I heard of Joe the Plumber, and I heard of the Tea Party, but somehow I never heard of Mike Pence.

    Which doesn’t make him a bad guy. It’s just that I want to avoid a civil war.

    You’ve heard of General Sherman, presumably. But maybe you never heard of that other guy. I think his name was McClellan or something.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  92. Backing someone with no regard for the constitution is different than backing someone who knows little of the constitution.

    mg (31009b)

  93. Constitution, schmonstitution. Those days have been over for decades.

    Charlie don’t surf, man.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  94. Get stuffed, Christoph. Enough of your BS. Go eat something.

    nk (dbc370)

  95. “The Vice President doesn’t do anything.”

    Trump is 70 and there has already been at least one assassination attempt on him.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  96. I’d vote for Pence over Hillary. Pence is ready for office the first day.

    Let’s say infirmity and age catch up to President Trump and his Great Wall Of Mexico is some percentage less than done, Pence will carry it through to complete.

    This is an excellent pick by Trump, which gives a nod to mortality, and shows a care for the country’s continuity in the hereafter.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  97. I’m warming up to Pence.

    It helps, that I used to like him a lot.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  98. Nate Silver gives Donald Trump a less than 20% chance of winning the Republican nomination.

    Nate’s never wrong.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  99. He’s got computers and stuff.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  100. #83 hunson abedeer,

    How can we trust your proclamations about graphic design when you admit you didn’t even know who Mike Pence is?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  101. “How can we trust your proclamations…”

    First of all, you don’t have to. I’m just some guy running his mouth on the internet, right? (and btw, knowing how visual information works in a design sense, what it is that human beings see and perceive and how they process that perception, has nothing to do with knowing who some particular guy is who gets mentioned from time to time in US News and World Report. I didn’t know anything at all about Dan Quayle, but I took one look at him and drew correct conclusions.) You could completely ignore whatever I’m saying, and what difference would it make? Like the old joke goes, on the internet, nobody knows you’re actually a dog.

    My larger point though, if you care to consider it (and you certainly don’t have to if you judge not to), is that Trump MUST win this election. My consideration –and my reasons are too complex to discuss right now– is that if Hitlery Clinton wins this election, it spells the end of the Republic as we’ve previously understood it, and puts this nation on a diseased path which will likely end in civil war. That’s how serious I think this matter is.

    And I think Mr. Trump is facing a great many more challenges than are readily apparent (simply put, Hitlery and the Dems are among the biggest crooks this nation has ever seen.) It may be that Mike Pence will bring a sense of stability and competence, of ballast in the keel, to what is otherwise a charisma-driven and anger-fueled juggernaut. If that works, then God bless ’em. But I have my doubts, and I have complicated reasons for having my doubts. I’m just looking at this from the standpoint of somebody who analyzes chess positions, as it were, and I’m thinking, Oh crap, you just walked blindly into a trap, mate in three.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  102. Choosing Pence shows VERY poor judgment.…and similar, mostly from the #NEVERTRUMP crowd…this is what grinds about you political chatterers. You sit in a vacuum of responsibility, relative to the subject matter anyway, and make these rediculously pronouncements of moral, ethical, or strategic certainty. I see it every time a politician or such has to make a decision. A multitude of options are available, all with significant pluses and minuses, but a decision MUST be made. Then in come the chatterers with these definitive statements, jumping on the minuses without regard to the negatives of other options and totally oblivious to the numerous factors that the chatterers cannot possibly be aware of. You’re basically MFM wannabes with (slightly?) different politics.

    WTP (ed22f0)

  103. ?WTP? I’m a #NEVERTRUMP crowd and I heartily approve of Pence. I’d vote for him over everyone on the convention speaker list with the exception of Scott Walker (and understanding why it’s not Cruz).

    The “person” you’re quoting is an obese Canadian nutcase, Christoph, who trolls here under more than a dozen pseudonyms, and who ostensibly is pro-Trump, but I think that’s only because Adolf Hitler was not actually cloned.

    In my opinion, choosing Pence for VP is one the very best moves Trump could have made if he’s serious about winning.

    nk (dbc370)

  104. And only part of it is relief that he did not choose a YUUGE VP. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  105. #102 WTP,

    WTH?
    How is choosing Pence bad judgment?
    I think many of us were just praying Trump wasn’t going to choose another “pirate” who has a pro wrestling stage name.

    Pence is a serious thoughtful man with both legislative and executive experience, whom people can visualize as not just Vice President, but as President. He was also a radio talk show host prior to Congress, so we have someone one knows how to speak, and that’s not always been the case with our presidential ticket during the past 30 years.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  106. WTP was quoting Christoph at 77 in the italics, CS.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. I assume anyone who says picking Pence was bad judgement would have said that about anyone Trump picked.

    Gerald A (76f251)

  108. Pence was a very good choice. The roll stumble fall drag out with idiotic logo showed political skill equivalent to the management skill which made Trump Air what it is today.

    Rick Ballard (580868)

  109. #106 nk,
    Thanks for pointing that out to me about #102.
    I wish every commenter would use clear demarcations to indicate when they’re quoting someone else, that way everyone else can follow the thread without confusion.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  110. @ nk (#104): “Relief” is not the only reaction to the Pence announcement, but for many potential GOP voters — for many who held our noses to vote for McCain or Mittens, but are still actively gagging at the prospect of voting for Trump — relief is indeed the predominant and most significant reaction.

    If Pence had run during this cycle, he would have ranked somewhere in my top third. Trump was #17 of 17 on my list this year, and if Pence had run, he would have been #18 of 18. (If my crazy uncle Melvin had run this year, Trump would have dropped to #19, and so forth.) So of course I’m not disappointed to see this choice, even if it’s not the choice I would have made, nor likely the choice my favorite, Ted Cruz, would have made.

    Look, there are people in the business community who know Trump’s reputation and history — that is, who know without doubt that by getting into any kind of dealings with Trump, they’re guaranteeing that they’ll be subjected to a steady stream of overwhelming egotism, nasty complaints, childish insults, evasions of responsibility, renegotiations of agreed-upon and signed documents, frivolous lawsuits, and outright lies and deal-breakings. Depending on the nature of the deal and one’s other remedies and bargaining position, it’s still possible — despite all that — to sometimes find a profitable deal, so long as you’re not actually relying on Trump. That means you have to keep an abundantly over-secured position (via foreclosure or otherwise, with no gap or shortage of collateral), and you have to be willing to pull the plug to cut losses as soon as Trump wobbles or collapses. There are many, many examples during all of Trump’s restructurings and bankruptcies in which he’s been bested, badly, at the negotiating table, rather than swallowing a complete wipeout through outright foreclosure and liquidation.

    So if somehow this schmuck gets elected — which I continue to believe is highly improbable; he’s the only candidate whom I believe Hillary can not only beat, but wipe out nationwide, flipping every single purple state and quite a few red ones — then I’ll acknowledge it when he makes a decent decision, even if (as this one appears to have been) it’s been wrung out of him, reluctantly, by his aides who reside in our same plane of reality instead of living full-time in Trumpkin World.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  111. That was an awful speech by Trump.

    He gets marks for honesty, but not so much for reframing!

    I hear he was on the phone until midnight seeing if he could realistically get out of choosing Pence. He should have gone with his gut, not Manafort’s.

    Denver Guy (21d3a4)

  112. “there are people in the business community who know Trump’s reputation and history — that is, who know without doubt that by getting into any kind of dealings with Trump, they’re guaranteeing that they’ll be subjected to a steady stream of overwhelming egotism, nasty complaints, childish insults, evasions of responsibility, renegotiations of agreed-upon and signed documents, frivolous lawsuits, and outright lies and deal-breakings.”

    So let me see if I got this straight. There are all these people in the “business community” who “know” all these unpalatable things about Trump, and yet they still, mysteriously, inexplicably, knowingly have “dealings” with Trump, despite the fact that he has competitors, and they’re still seen as serious people in this ostensible “community”?

    Look, man, I have no illusions that Trump is a good guy. But what you talkin’ bout, Willis?

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  113. It comes down to this, realistically. “TRUMP / PENCE” doesn’t sound good. I mean literally, musically, phonically. It doesn’t trip off the tongue. The optics are terrible. That logo beggars belief, it’s so beneath professional standards, I’m simply dumbstruck that intelligent people could see it and not puke. (Hitlery’s is just as bad, but my utter contempt for her kind of alters my perspective.) I’m sure Pence is a competent guy, but this is presidential politics, and mere competence means a Cabinet post, not winning. Ask Jack Kemp about that, or that other guy, if you can find either of them somewhere. It sounds like “Ford/Dole” or “Dole/Forgotten Douchebag.” Think about how and why Obama beat Hitlery in 2008, and why the personal attacks on Sarah Palin were so feral and unforgivable.

    Hitlery is gonna wipe the floor with this guy unless he gets a clue, and very soon. Donald, I’m around.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  114. It may well be that Trump is the only one of the candidates that had a snowball’s chance of beating Hillary Clinton, that’s how low this country has fallen.

    He also appears to be the only one of them who consistently pushes back against the media’s attempts to demonize anybody who isn’t in lockstep with the leftoid party line. They need to be called out and told to put their horsesh*t where the sun does not shine and the more often it’s done, the better.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  115. And he’ll disregard unsolicited advice and counsel proffered by the Canadian Foreskin Party… that’s a plus too.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  116. “It comes down to this, realistically. “TRUMP / PENCE” doesn’t sound good. I mean literally, musically, phonically. It doesn’t trip off the tongue. ”

    Nonsense, you can sing it to the tune of “Feed the birds”

    Feed the herds,

    Trumpence a bag.

    Trumpence, Trumpence,

    Trumpence, a bag!

    It works.

    felipe (2457e9)

  117. “They need to be called out and told to put their horsesh*t where the sun does not shine”

    By who… you?

    Also, you seem rather personally irritated by my comments instead of genuinely intellectually so. Since you’re so theatrically annoyed, what exactly is it that I’ve said that rubs your brain cells (not your fur) the wrong way? Enquiring minds want to know.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  118. I like Pence’s cadence… like GHW Bush’s thing that Dana Carvey used to do and Luke Wilson did so well at the end of “Idiocracy”.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  119. I have a feeling that Pence will make mincemeat of his opponent in a debate.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  120. This is the least harm guy. In a large field primary would have been in my top tier. Col., I think this closes the door on the unabashed leftists and Castro/Becerra. You are probably going to get Kaine, Warner, a military guy (Stavridis?), maybe a throwback like Rendell or Bredesen as Clinton’s VP

    urbanleftbehind (924249)

  121. I still don’t like Trump as a person or as a candidate but I sure love watching him smack back at Crooked Hillary!, Fauxcahontas and the leftist media in his not-very-politically-correct way.

    Rev. Hoagie® (0f4ef6)

  122. Christoph… exposed…

    When a Man Loves a Woman His Foreskin

    When a man loves his foreskin
    Can’t keep his mind on nothin’ else,
    He’d make the male world keep ’em intact
    It has a head, but he can’t see it,
    On his shortie schlong
    Run his fool mouth on every blog
    When a man loves his foreskin
    He’ll spend his very last dime
    Tryin’ to maintain while spreading rants
    He’d let loose all his mud
    If they disagree
    If they said that’s the way
    It ought to be.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  123. Trump has two strong suits at the moment: 1) Hitlery is a quasi-criminal incompetent, who has never done anything right, or even properly, in her long, unnecessary, ridiculous career, and Trump has presented a well-made case for that; and 2) he’s channeling a sort of chthonic level of anger and frustration from a sector of the electorate which is traditionally not just ignored, but spat upon. Turnout and an aggressive ground game will be critical, otherwise the insanely crooked DNC will simply overwhelm him. Ground game, dood, it can’t be said too many times.

    Hitlery has her own strong suits, too: a demographic tidal wave which will always vote in mindless racist lockstep, an endless reservoir of imbecilic unthinking a-historical resentment, and a monopoly on a media/academic machine which also has an endless reservoir of imbecilic unthinking resentment.

    Who will win? See ya at Belmont.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  124. col haiku — next time, try a bit harder to be actually funny instead of tedious. Also, you answered my question with a tiresome parody of old song lyrics, instead of with an actual argument. Do you have an actual argument? It would be fun to hear; probably not interesting, but at least fun.

    Give it a go, lad. I’m sure you’ve got the stuff.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  125. Speaking of Fast Eddie Rendell
    http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/morning_roundup/2016/07/ed-rendell-praises-trump-trade-china-obeidallah.html

    “The interesting thing is, I talk about China and the fact that China took advantage of us in trade and cost Pennsylvania some significant jobs, and I quoted Donald Trump in the book,” Rendell acknowledged. “You know all that Donald Trump says isn’t wrong It’s the way he says it — and there are many things he does say that’s wrong. But he’s right about China. We have for some reason not stood up to China. We’ve allowed them to manipulate their currency, which gives their businesses tremendous advantage in selling to America. They came in here and tried to dump low-priced, subsidized steel pipe to get rid of the steel pipe industry in the U.S.”

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  126. @ felipe (#117): I salute you, sir! I just hope Hillary doesn’t play the part of Mary Poppins.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  127. I can’t quite describe whether “unctuous” or “oleaginous” best fits these Trumpkin shills. But they both sing to me in that particular usage.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  128. Here we go, hunson: now you can be happy.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  129. Speaking of Fast Eddie Rendell

    Rendell’s an idiot, and him agreeing with Trump on something is not a plus to me. As I pointed out more than once during the primaries, China does not keep their currency artificially low.

    Gerald A (76f251)

  130. I have two cans of poison Alpo dog food from China I keep on the shelf just for times like these, when some doofus tells me about our great trade deals with Communist China.

    The dog’s been dead for years, but I’m keeping those cans.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  131. @129: that’s an improvement, to be sure, but the too-wide spacing of the “Pence” letters is still a huge Chris Christie-size mistake. Don’t make me explain why, we’ll be here all day.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  132. that’s an improvement, to be sure, but the too-wide spacing of the “Pence” letters is still a huge Chris Christie-size mistake. Don’t make me explain why, we’ll be here all day.

    Trump is by far the main draw to the ticket. It works.

    But sure, we agree it’s an improvement.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  133. @131: Congratulations, funniest remark I’ve read on the internet for quite some time. Man, even xkcd isn’t funny anymore. Thanks. Whew, I almost thought the human race was dead.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  134. I have two cans of poison Alpo dog food from China I keep on the shelf just for times like these, when some doofus tells me about our great trade deals with Communist China.

    The dog’s been dead for years, but I’m keeping those cans.

    papertiger (c2d6da) — 7/16/2016 @ 11:58 am

    We don’t have any trade deals with Communist China.

    Gerald A (76f251)

  135. Trump isn’t the main draw to the ticket, Trump IS the ticket. Trump is anger and frustration incarnate. Pence is just, “Oh, and also a guy who isn’t f*cking crazy. Does that help you relax?” Which is why it’s such a relief he didn’t go with Gingrich, which would have been a double-atomic-bomb of unelectable old-white-guy crazy. I think Pence is a terrible idea from a marketing perspective (and remember, Trump is running against the Clinton Machine and the mudslide DNC, his near-insurmountable task is to WIN, which will from a practical point of view be nearly impossible), but in all honesty I can’t think of a reasonable alternative I would have liked.

    I wish we could have given Sarah Palin a brain transplant, maybe that woulda worked. Can you imagine a world where President Palin had about 30+ more IQ points and a proper education? Now that would be an America worth living in.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  136. The worst thing about Pence, who I’m sure is a fine guy in his own way, is he supports so many Clinton policies and has recently opposed so many Trump policies. So, Trump attacks Clinton’s policies and Clinton says, “You know who supports my policy (yet another one)? Mike Pence, that’s who.”

    I think Pence was a mistake, but he does seem liked by both the neocon and social conservative base, plus some tea partiers, so I hope for the best.

    Surely to goodness these people can be motivated to vote to stop Hillary Clinton (and loss of the Supreme Court).

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  137. I never that I’d see or hear it! The truth spoken by Hillary Clinton…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYrI9jS6JIk&index=9&list=PLWV40qQra1kpc2v_y3AVWqWKjqrdfkrvt

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  138. Yeah. You call that a “deal”?

    Someone get Walmart on the horn.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  139. Then there’s the time I was doing a cultural exchange type of thing with my French penpal.

    They sent me a package of French cookies I’d never heard of. On my end I’d send them some chotchke
    made in California.

    Ooops.

    Tell me the part where that went wrong? I know you can guess.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  140. I don’t know, a “more properly educated” more pleasant sounding Palin would have been nothing more than Mrs. Kevin Johnson, Corey Booker, Harold Ford, Shane Battier or Grant Hill. She was priming herself for ESPN and then went back home.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  141. Showmanship and political stagecraft isn’t something Trump invented.

    Compare Trump’s best 5 minutes of speaking to, say,

    this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEIqdcHbc8I
    or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Bx_zvCHYw
    or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxL3OU1dwmI

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  142. You know, there isn’t a single delegate who is required to vote for Pence. Maybe the majority of delegates who actually oppose Trump, bound as they are, will lash out and defeat whomever he names for VP. Because they can.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  143. Trump won because of strategy, not speaking ability. Sure, he had to speak to implement his strategy.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  144. Methodists tell God to bugger off… “METHODISTS ELECT 1ST OPENLY GAY BISHOP IN DEFIANCE OF BAN”

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_REL_METHODISTS_GAY_BISHOP?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-07-16-09-14-48

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. Pence is a jelly donut: powdered white on top, empty calories inside, red stuff in middle and two holes at each end.

    DCSCA (a343d5)

  146. Not to be outdone, the Presbyterians will scramble to elect the first openly Muslim bishop.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  147. However, Trump believes he has made a blunder, whether he has or not. Apparently, as I said, he was calling people up until midnight to see if he could realistically get out of Pence. Several people with sources in the Trump campaign are also saying Trump was not and is not happy with his Pence pick.

    I’m not sure who he wishes he chose. Sessions maybe. Hopefully not Michael Flynn. As much as I like the idea of the guy and honor his service, he went on TV the other day and demanded Khomeini (yes, the guy who has been dead for 15 years) denounce the Nice attack, and that Iran do so as well.

    Why? Well who the hell knows? Iran is Shia and are frequently attacked by Sunni terrorists, as the Shias are in Iraq almost every day. I would have hoped Flynn would know this.

    As DIA and a Lt. General, he probably did. Unfortunately, I suspect his memory is failing him, but I digress.

    So, Trump gave a lousy speech today, as I noted, because his heart isn’t in the Pence nod, and Trump thinks he’s made a mistake.

    He probably has. I hope he recovers. The national security criminal Hillary Clinton should not be President.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  148. all anonymous sourcing, honestly it’s like ground hog day, you buy the preconceived narrative,

    narciso (732bc0)

  149. Milo Yiannopoulos is saying this regarding his sources in the Trump campaign. I trust him.

    I’ve heard similar from others, among them, Dana Bash.

    Sure, they’re anonymous sources. But it matches his poor speech where he looked to be struggling much more than usual. It also has to be the case that he had doubts since so many of his supporters urged him to go for someone who has similar policies and instincts as him.

    Instead, he’s done the opposite, and now all the Clinton campaign has to do is say, “Well, your running mate agrees with us.”

    It’s also not very good assassination/impeachment insurance, and Trump probably needs this.

    I’ve nothing against Pence, except I think he was the wrong pick. It seems Trump does too.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  150. The theme music from the movie “Air Force One” blared over loudspeakers as a plane carrying Pence pulled up to a hangar at a suburban Indianapolis airport on Saturday evening, mirroring Trump’s trademark campaign rally entrance.

    Mike Pence got choked-up when he arrived home to a cheering crowd celebrating his addition to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.
    The Indiana governor turned presidential running mate returned in a private jet Saturday evening and told those assembled at a hangar that the last few days had been “pretty overwhelming.”
    Pence thanked individual members of his family during a short address and asked for prayers. The Republican vice presidential candidate told the crowd that Trump is a good man who will be a “great president.”
    Divisive social issues have been a hallmark of Pence’s tenure as governor. He told the crowd that he would take “Hoosier ideals to Washington” if elected.

    http://www.kolotv.com/content/news/Mike–Pence-accepts-Donald-Trumps-offer-to-join-GOP-ticket-387100411.html /\ source!

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  151. The theme music from the movie “Air Force One” blared over loudspeakers as a plane carrying Pence pulled up to a hangar at a suburban Indianapolis airport on Saturday evening, mirroring Trump’s trademark campaign rally entrance.

    Mike Pence got choked-up when he arrived home to a cheering crowd celebrating his addition to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.
    The Indiana governor turned presidential running mate returned in a private jet Saturday evening and told those assembled at a hangar that the last few days had been “pretty overwhelming.”
    Pence thanked individual members of his family during a short address and asked for prayers. The Republican vice presidential candidate told the crowd that Trump is a good man who will be a “great president.”
    Divisive social issues have been a hallmark of Pence’s tenure as governor. He told the crowd that he would take “Hoosier ideals to Washington” if elected.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  152. The theme music (YouTube) from the movie “Air Force One” blared over loudspeakers as a plane carrying Pence pulled up to a hangar at a suburban Indianapolis airport on Saturday evening, mirroring Trump’s trademark campaign rally entrance.

    Mike Pence got choked-up when he arrived home to a cheering crowd celebrating his addition to Donald Trump’s presidential campaign.

    http://www.kolotv.com/content/news/Mike–Pence-accepts-Donald-Trumps-offer-to-join-GOP-ticket-387100411.html /\ source!

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  153. Awesome, he got chocked up. That’s great.

    And the Clinton campaign can point to him and say, “Hey, your policies are a lot like ours, and a lot unlike Donald Trump’s.”

    Plus, if he has to step in, he undoes the important work Trump will do to lead the west against Islam, frankly.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  154. *choked

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  155. and red queen had to swallow some of doc brown’s marxist swill, any coalition, has to accomodate both wings,

    narciso (732bc0)

  156. No dude. That’s not the way it works at all. I have source.

    And the spam filter prevented my saying more.

    I work here is done.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  157. The way they phrase this: Divisive social issues have been a hallmark of Pence’s tenure as governor. He told the crowd that he would take “Hoosier ideals to Washington” if elected.

    Sounds a lot like the paper is A.) ready for Hil, and B.) not buying it that they’re the same thing.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  158. Pence is a really good public speaker. As Colonel Haiku points out, he has good cadence. That’s his talk radio background on display.

    Also, Pence began his speech by praising Trump and his family. He’s signaling to Big Dog on the Ticket that he knows who the Big Dog is. That’s wise, and it will hopefully inspire an egotistical President Trump to delegate important authority to his Vice President.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  159. Ann Coulter insists it isn’t too late for Trump to dump Pence.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  160. “Pence is a really good public speaker.”

    He’s decent at it. My problem is the substance.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  161. actually the sepah regime is blaming france for nice, for reasons passing understanding, read taheri, for examples, flynn is one of the best organizers of intelligence infrastructure, he was the brains behind petraeus campaign in afghanistan,

    narciso (732bc0)

  162. we have schools that don’t teach the basics thanks to constructivism, law enforcement that are not allowed to do their job,s trade deals that are sinecures for lobbyists, war’s we are procluded from properly identifying much less defeating the enemy,

    narciso (732bc0)

  163. I have no doubt that Flynn had a great strategic mind, and still does in many respects.

    But I did see him on television demanding Khomeini denounce the Nice attack, and that Iran do so as well. It was committed by Sunni Muslims. This left me scratching my head.

    Plus, he’s not a great public speaker and tends to go on inappropriately about what he’s interested in talking about, not picking up the social cues. I suspect that he has a recent cognitive impairment, affecting his memory and behavior.

    This isn’t to knock him. I’m simply saying what I saw and what it made me think. No doubt he is a great man, but he may not be quite the man he was for medical reasons.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  164. 90 votes and co-sponsorships during 12 years in Congress (2003-12), Indiana Gov. Mike Pence earned a Career B+ Grade from NumbersUSA.

    That means he usually voted against increases in immigration that would drive American wages down through a looser labor market and that would force more rapid population growth on local communities.

    He nearly always voted for extra controls to reduce illegal immigration.

    And he made several attempts to reduce overall legal immigration.

    Except for one category (H-1B visas), the record shows Pence was a stalwart in the battle for immigration policies that serve the interests of our national community.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  165. Well, that’s reassuring. Hopefully he will also learn the value of discriminating against Muslims because their ideology, and history, includes conquest by terrorism and deception.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  166. I think Trump was floating Flynn for a few days. I wonder if Flynn’s poor performance on TV, including demanding Khomeini speak out on the Nice attack, caused Trump to give it to Pence. It’s a possibility, anyway.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  167. just to keep them chasing the llamas, seriously the journolists have the attention span of a “ferret on double expression'” ht/dennis miller circa 1996,

    narciso (732bc0)

  168. I’ve never liked Ann Coulter. I think she’s a performer and her shtick is “right-wing nuttier than thou”. What’s she gonna do now? Vote for Hillary?

    nk (dbc370)

  169. I don’t think Trump’s going to dump Pence. Since the decision has been made, I’m wondering how he best uses Pence to defeat Hillary, defend the country, and protect the Supreme Court.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  170. what were the realistic options, stay pufts, like morbo gives me gas, general flynn better at nsc or cia, guiliani better at atty general,

    narciso (732bc0)

  171. The role of the running mate in a conventional campaign is to sharply attack the opponent. But Trump himself does that. Pence’s selection is to attract some conservatives that aren’t sold on Trump. The running mate never sets the theme or policy positions of the campaign. Pence is kind of boring. If that’s the worst that can be said about him then that’s a positive in my view.

    Gerald A (76f251)

  172. Trump/Webb would be a dream ticket, especially against a clearly corrupt Democrat nominee.

    Denver Guy (4734bc)

  173. Webb was my guy in a dream Webb v. Walker “if Im late to the polling station, Im not mad” scenario. But being such a loose cannon, I bet you Hill, Huma or the staffer who drew short straw is fellating him tonight or tomorrow morning.

    urbanleftbehind (847a06)

  174. “I think Trump maybe made this tweet at 11 am today because Pence told him that if he didn’t announce it publicly, he, Pence, was going to run for Governor and not Vice President.”

    I read some more things in Saturday’s papers (and elsewhere) that indicate a lot more signs of that.

    1. Gingrich wasn’t notified before the Twitter announcement that he was not picked. At about the same time Gingrich sent an e-mail saying he has not heard directly from the Trump campaign about the decision. (I don’t have the timeline)

    2. When Trump announced it on Twitter, he didn’t use Mike Pence’s twitter handle, which you might have expected on Twitter, and therefore, by itself, might be a sign of haste.

    3. Pence’s Twitter bio did not list him as the running mate for nearly an hour after the Twitter announcement Friday.

    4. Campaign e-mails, both to reporters and to people on the campaign’s mailing list were slow in getting out.

    5. Trump’s campaign web page was not updated so as to mention the vice presidential candidate well
    into the evening.

    6. The papers for Pence to withdraw from the Indiana Gubernatrorial race were not stamped until 11:05 am. (Most of Indiana is on eastern time, the same time as New York. The deadline was 12 noon.) Reporters and cameras were wating for soem time in the lobby of the Indiaana Secretary ofS State. A lawyer for Pence’s gubernatorial campaign either was waiting or didn’t arrive for some time.

    7. The previous night, Trump was outraged at the leaks, furious at reports that his campaiugn aides were informing people that Pence was the choice, bristled at the idea that he was locked in, and asked his top aides if Pence was really the right choice. Advisers and family members told him he was selecting a running mate to unite the Republican Party, not a new best friend. Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort claimed to the New York Times, though, that Trump had never wavered and that any questions about Pence as a politicall choice simply reflected Trump’s loose conversational style. Pence had been reassured all this time that he was the choice.

    It was actually mostly Christie whom Trump was considering as an alternative, not Gingrich.

    8. Christie made a last ditch appeal asking for the nomination sometime late Thursday. Allies of Christie thought he was still in contention on Friday morning.

    Sammy Finkelman (372aad)

  175. If there was one name in all of Republicandom that would convince me to jump onboard the Trump train, that name would be Pence.

    Yessir, I’m all hot and bothered for Donald Trump now. Because, Pence!

    Steve57 (193d96)

  176. One word: Brawndo.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  177. Brawndo? What does that mean?

    Sammy Finkelman (372aad)

  178. Looks like you’re running low on electrolytes, Sammeh. See: “Idiocracy”…

    Sonuvagun b*tch… 3 cops shot dead in Baton Rouge… http://www.wbrz.com/news/3-officers-dead-after-shooting-near-brpd-hq

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  179. Barack has actively fomented this hatred for the police. He’s such a charlatan — why do so many people refuse to acknowledge it?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  180. Barack has actively fomented this hatred for the police. He’s such a charlatan — why do so many people refuse to acknowledge it?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 7/17/2016 @ 9:19 am

    Way, way O/T, dude.

    But I’ll play as there’s a simple answer.

    They’re cowards and they share the hatred toward cops.

    We are talking about the same simpering, craven leftists who crave gun control. For the same reasons. They imagine they could bravely wage the revolution. If only it were safe to do so.

    Steve57 (193d96)

  181. Steve 57,

    What does “O/T” mean?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  182. Sorta O/T, but trying to bring it back.

    Any of you do this in the course of your day?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7pRfix_sNg

    US Navy Ship loses anchor and chain

    Well, you shouldn’t be doing exactly this. There’s a right way and a wrong way to do anything.

    A shot of chain is 90ft or 15 fathoms, BTW. That may help make sense of what you are hearing.

    That’s neither here nor there. I didn’t link to the video showing the crew of the Tarawa to make fun of them. Hardly. They’re doing the hard work. A ship just doesn’t pull into port and drop anchor. SOMEBODY works the sea and anchor detail. You only hear about it when it falls to s***. Maybe not even then.

    I don’t think either of our candidates appreciates the dwindling population willing to do the grunt work. Nor do their voters.

    Steve57 (193d96)

  183. O/T = Off Topic

    Steve57 (193d96)

  184. BTW = By The Way

    Steve57 (193d96)

  185. Except that it doesn’t “unite the Republican Party.” Pence is as exciting as stale bread. If unity was what he was after, Rubio would have been the pick. If an attack dog was it, then Gingrich (are we all agreed that Pence is not an attack dog?). He’s an empty suit, pretty much as a placeholder. It’s not even clear to me that the electors won’t be told to choose someone else.

    Why is this important? Because the race is NOT going to be just Trump vs Hildabeast. Besides Stein and Johnson there will be another player. Maybe Kasich as a write-in for the same ego-driven reason he stayed in the primary race.

    Of course, as things are going, Obama may unify the GOP behind Trump on a “kick the table over” platform. God knows status quo isn’t too appealing.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  186. Pence on 60 Minutes has that same, familiar Christie stare.

    Whenever he was asked a question, Trump answered it.

    DCSCA (a343d5)

  187. “Ann Coulter insists it isn’t too late for Trump to dump Pence.”

    You think maybe we could dump Pence and recruit Ann Coulter? I’d be on board for that.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  188. I think personally it would be hilarious, and beautifully, charmingly Trump-like, if after having made the big decision he were to turn around and say, You know what? I apologize, this is a wrong call, Pence is a loser, this logo is ridiculous and unpersuasive, this isn’t how a winner wins, you’re all fired, I’m getting new people.” I think America would award him a standing O, not for indecision, but for judgment and cojones.

    hunson abedeer (80144e)

  189. Ecmenoios are in dire straits, but I can count on this!

    Karson (313e4a)


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