Breaking: Violence Against Trump Supporters in San Jose
Trump supporter gets sucker punched. He later identified the man he believes punched him & police arrested the man https://t.co/NiL7GiwJ9R
— Sara Murray (@SaraMurray) June 3, 2016
I called 911 but no one answered. Donald trump protest in San Jose, CA pic.twitter.com/LwaWyeYZfq
— Marcus DiPaola (@marcusdipaola) June 3, 2016
Animals.
NOW: #Trump supporter attacked and left bleeding in San Jose pic.twitter.com/kC2GVz9JcZ
— Tim Pool (@Timcast) June 3, 2016
Note how the media people are hyper-focused on whether the guy “provoked” the attack. Similarly, we have this:
Protesters cornering Trump supporters as they leave. This woman taunted them. They cornered her & threw eggs at her pic.twitter.com/MiDGDBkKIo
— Sara Murray (@SaraMurray) June 3, 2016
The tweet from CNN reported Sara Murray says:
Protesters cornering Trump supporters as they leave. This woman taunted them. They cornered her & threw eggs at her
“This woman taunted them.” Is that so?
Define "taunted." https://t.co/ShHyXWbp7m
— Patterico (@Patterico) June 3, 2016
Because this fellow says they taunted her:
Woman who supports Trump surrounded by protesters, who taunt her, then throw eggs and bottles at her. pic.twitter.com/nHJ3cgYOfR
— Jacob Rascon (@Jacobnbc) June 3, 2016
[UPDATE: OK, “taunting” is not necessarily completely unfair, given this video — although obviously it does not justify egging the woman. Jan Crawford says it better: “I see a woman being defiant and holding her ground in the face of angry crowd screaming and threatening to overwhelm her.” Exactly.]
None of this will cause me to vote for Trump. But it’s about as effective an ad for voting Trump as I can imagine. It’s an emotional punch straight to the gut.
Ding.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/2/2016 @ 8:54 pmNote also the Mexican flag in one of the videos in the post.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:00 pmThese thugs have been encouraged by Barack for eight years. What a sick country we live in.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:02 pmTypical left-wing bastardry, but…this woman may as well get used to having egg on her face.
Hunkahillbilly (e8f5cb) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:11 pmSanders republicans and Clinton republicans are having a trumgasm.
mg (f81376) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:11 pmtrumpgasm
mg (f81376) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:12 pmAs has been said, one of the most enduring achievements of the Obama era is all the racial healing.
Leftwing PsOS
Colonel Haiku (1b4b83) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:15 pmhttp://www.breitbart.com/california/2016/06/02/donald-trump-america-never-great-f-trump-hate/
mg (f81376) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:17 pmLoiville Slugger time, I loved the Ernie Banks model – Narrow handle, big butt.
[UPDATE: OK, “taunting” is not necessarily completely unfair, given this video — although obviously it does not justify egging the woman. Jan Crawford says it better: “I see a woman being defiant and holding her ground in the face of angry crowd screaming and threatening to overwhelm her.” Exactly.]
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:18 pmHunkahillbilly, you find this amusing?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:18 pmThe flag on high! The ranks tightly closed!
nk (dbc370) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:26 pmThe Trump battalions march with quiet, steady step.
Comrades egged by the Reds and reactionaries
March in spirit within our ranks.
Comrades punched by the Reds and reactionaries
March in spirit within our ranks.
I wonder if we are headed for a race war in this country. Maybe old Charlie Manson was just ahead of the curve.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:29 pmWhen have I steered you wrong?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:43 pmNever!
Because when you try, you fail to persuade me.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:46 pmHeh.
I think you win.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:50 pmDid Manson expect a race war? Manson hoped the police would think the black panthers or black criminals of some kind did the Tate-Labianca killings. Manson planted a billfold from the Labianca house in a restaurant he thought was in a black area, hoping a black person would pick it up and use a credit card.
As it turned out. LA law enforcement never suspected black perpetrators.
The thugs attacking Trump supporters don’t think white people will ever fight back.
DN (1da183) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:52 pmyes, that was the whole thing about helter skelter, although yglesias pere will be sure to make it some kind of republican plot, when aquarius comes back in two weeks,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:59 pmHannibal is at the gates.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:07 pmWhen the Manson Gang showed up at Roman Polanski and Sharon Tate’s, they were actually expecting to find record producer Terry Melcher there. Melcher had rejected Manson’s audio tapes, and so Manson wanted to exact some revenge upon him. Turns out Melcher had sub-let the house to Polanski and Tate, but Manson didn’t know it.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:14 pmTerry Melcher was Doris Day’s son.
In other words, the Mansons were trying to kill Doris Day’s son.
This reminds me of that incident in
Bill H (971e5f) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:16 pmAmerica’s ArmpitNew Jersey. There, it was the case of a man flying a Trump flag on his flagpole in his yard. He was arrested and charged with some bullsh*t charge of displaying election signs too early. Trump/never Trump, doesn’t matter. That was a claar violation of the 1st. The presiding judge knew it, and dismissed the charge.didn’t know that part of the story,v similar to the story that jeffrey mcdonald told.
narciso (732bc0) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:21 pmThis is not being reported in the mainstream media because it will lead to more support for Trump, especially the anti-Trump side waiving Mexican flags.
AZ Bob (d6a3a9) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:22 pmI think I saw that (judge’s dismissal) at Ace’s. The original story was on Breitbart.
Bill H (971e5f) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:26 pmAt some point these people will realize that the police don’t protect us from them, they protect them from us.
Going to be ugly real soon if law enforcement doesn’t start doing something about the rioters.
Bradoplata (@bradoplata) (e7c6bf) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:29 pmGotta see this. Thousands in line for Trump’s Sacramento rally a few hours before scheduled start time. (Twitter video)
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:34 pmI can’t stand Trump and I know this story helps him, but this is news.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/2/2016 @ 10:44 pmThis SCHIT is so easy, it astounds me that PEEPS here and MASTER PATTERICO do NOT get it.
Why did these VICTIMS have EGGS with them????
Yeah, I know, it’s to obvious for DIMBULBS to understand. Eggs at the READY.
GUS (30b6bd) — 6/2/2016 @ 11:31 pmI don’t expect and intelligent answer, because this country has ceased to THINK. However, what kind of STOOOOOOPIT MORON, would see LEFTARDS throwing EGGS and yet somehow try to justify it as SELF EGG DEFENSE?? Seriously. Patterico, you’re a BEEEEG MEDIA DUDE. Care to explain???
GUS (30b6bd) — 6/2/2016 @ 11:35 pmThose people are assholes.
They’re also *stupid*.
And I wonder: to what degree is Trump playing a game where he deliberately baits people into responding emotionally in ways that hurt them and help him? It’s an asshole negotiation tactic, but it’s often a successful one.
aphrael (3f0569) — 6/2/2016 @ 11:38 pmI see the Intel CEO is being told to stop supporting Trump because diversity.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 6/2/2016 @ 11:49 pmGus: When you are Captain Ahab,the real existential threats to our Nation are always secondary to the ultimate quest,that of harpooning Mr. Trump.
mike191 (bf652f) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:17 amSulking about losing the nomination works well doesn’t it?
cedarhill (c1e1dc) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:48 amPlenty of Mexican flag holders on this site.
mg (f81376) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:58 amLatin Kings vs. Vice Lords.
Just stay out of the line of fire, and hose them off the streets when it’s over.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:07 amThat little woman was such a “threat” to a gang of tattooed thugs wearing bandanas, armed with more eggs than a short order cook at Denny’s. It was just a “spontaneous” act of self-defense. You know, the same way the attackers at Benghazi just happened to be coincidentally standing there armed with RPG’s and bazookas just in case they were to catch wind about some kooky YouTube video.
That’s someone’s sister/daughter/wife.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:27 amShe was assaulted on the street, and it’s morally upside-down to be talking about how it’s too bad this happened because it might help Trump in the eyes of undecided voters.
“She is a hero because she was
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:44 amcapturedegged? I like people who weren’tcapturedegged, OK?”These rioters don’t belong here. Never have. Never will.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:51 amThe rioters are bad enough but when the San Jose Mayor and Police watch and do nothing shows the hate for fellow hard working Americans. Pretty effing sad.
mg (f81376) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:58 amMicrogressors must be punished dontcha know?
narciso (732bc0) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:59 amGood one – though obviously not an exact equivalence with McCain. The focus is on the mob, not on her.
Gerald A (945582) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:00 amI don’t think the lady and the guy was punched are real Trump supporters. Trump supporters are tough. They fight. They’re not losers.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:07 amand you never did think that it ever would happen again
in america didja
happyfeet (ee52ad) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:08 amand you never did think that it ever would happen again
in america didja
happyfeet (ee52ad) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:08 amDeath to the Demoness Dowager Clinton, to Bernie Sanders, to Black Lives Matter, to rioting Mexican mutts and to the neocoms that support them!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:22 amThis is the way the Trump wins
t. s. eliotfeet (bfd5cd) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:27 amThis is the way the Trump wins
This is the way the Trump wins
Death to the Demoness Dowager Clinton, to Bernie Sanders, to Black Lives Matter, to rioting Mexican mutts and to the neocoms that support them!
Exactly! The Trumpkins go into their safe space, the rally, and eat up Trump’s tough-guy talk, start thinking of themselves as tough guys because they sucker-punch protesters in police custody, and then they come out of their safe space.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:28 amSomewhere someone is frantically translating Rules for Radicals into Spanish.
MD in Philly (6d89d7) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:42 amThis is so 1968 and doesn’t help the cause.
Attaboy, nk, let’s ridicule “The Trumpkins” for daring to support their Presidential candidate in the face of masked men waiving foreign flags and burning American flags.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:52 amHe Who Dares Whines?
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:55 amWhat is that nugget of $hit supposed to mean?
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:57 amSoros, Clinton, Sanders, Neocons and democrats enjoy seeing this country abused by illegals and illegal actions.
mg (f81376) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:09 amHere’s a man(?) after your own heart, nk:
The picture is worth a thousand words.
http://twitter.com/Bastille1791/status/738551211121479680/photo/1
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:10 amnk,
Haven’t you mentioned you have a teenage daughter? Suppose she went to a rock concert, and got assaulted. I don’t think you’d agree with someone who says, “Aw, the singer in that rock band happens to be a drugged out hedonistic jerk, and has all sorts of problems with the law. So who cares if one of his fans got assaulted! That’s the risk you take when you attend one of those concerts!“
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:14 amDeath to those who find common cause with the rioting mutt colonizers!
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:18 amThe Latino groups see this as their civil rights movement and some are willing to do anything to advance their cause, but there should be legal consequences for attacking people — including criminal charges and jail time. Just because they believe in their cause doesn’t excuse breaking the law.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:20 amApples and orange spray tans, CS.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:27 amAnd I would certainly hope that my daughter would not be posting s*** like “Death to …” on the internet, either.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:29 amOdd how some who go crazy when a female reporter, putting herself in the fray as her job requires for both men and women, gets man-handled at a Trump event yet when an innocent young woman is intimidated, terrorized and assaulted by a violent mob of Mexicans it’s no biggie. I guess when it’s illegal immigrants it’s okay but if it’s a damn white guy it’s a crime.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:36 amnk,
It’s not apples and oranges.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:39 amThat young lady who got egged was essentially attending a rock concert performed by someone you think is trash, so you’re not sympathetic to the fact she was assaulted.
You know what depresses me most about this whole election cycle?
Somehow, we learned to hate each other.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:40 amAfter decades of being exploited or ignored by a political system that uses us for fuel, Americans picked up their heads, looked around… and got really pissed off at their neighbors. When Trump recognized that convergence of hatred and stupidity, he knew his moment had come.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:43 amIt’s also odd how some get rightfully upset when a mob attacks a Trump supporter, but when a campaign manager — putting himself in the fray even though his candidate has Secret Sevice protection — decides to man-handle a female reporter, it’s no biggie.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:46 amTrying to shut down our democracy while waving a foreign flag? F those people sideways.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:48 amIf Michelle Fields had been the one egged following a Trump rally in San Jose, certain people here wouldn’t be able to control their moral outrage that a woman was assaulted.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:48 amDRJ, how is a non assimilating, pro separatist, anti American and anti white movement a “cause”? They want to make America, Mexico. That’s not a “cause” it’s an invasion or a hostile takeover.
These people are proving Trump correct. We don’t need them here they need to go. Anyone protesting who receives any government support should immediately have that support stopped. I’m not paying for people who should be at work to be out protesting.
Every time this happens thousands of undecided move to Trump. Viva la revolución!
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:48 amI agree with DRJ. Lewendowski has a lot in common with these thugs. The first amendment means nothing to them.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:49 amCS, the people who assaulted her think that she wants to have them, and their families, rounded up in the middle of the night, put on buses and deported; and the reason they think that is because of Trump “concerts” such as the one she just attended, as well as the Best of Trump “album” and his numerous “hit singles” which have reached platinum.
Now, you know and I know that Trump is a liar and that it ain’t gonna happen. But the reason he’s about to get the nomination is that a lot of morons think it’s going to happen. And he does not have the exclusive monopoly on morons. There are morons for him and morons against him.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:49 amAlso, Hoagie, most people here disagree with what this mob did, but that wasn’t true in the case of Lewandowski and Fields. Who is the hypocrite?
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:50 am“And I wonder: to what degree is Trump playing a game where he deliberately baits people”
aphrael,
California is a magnet for Mexican illegals and a state Trump has no chance of winning, yet he says it is part of his election “strategy” to campaign there. I believe he intends to swing through California every time his earned media drops in order to elicit a reaction by short sighted Hispanic thugs. I don’t expect the Democrat propaganda organs to embrace his tactic and reward him with the coverage he is seeking to the extent which will makes the behavior politically profitable.
The media organs have him right where they want him and he’s really just a one trick pony heading for the knacker’s yard.
Rick Ballard (7727d9) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:51 amHoagie,
Like Trump, who thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a conflict of interest, you seem to think disagreeing with something you find repulsive means it should not be allowed. That is not how free speech works. The Mob should not be allowed to break the law but advocating for a belief is not illegal.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:53 amI disagree with the views of this mob but we can’t ban them for their beliefs. That opens the door to the Obama’s and Trump’s of the world to eliminate any dissent.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:59 amAuto-correct thinks it should capitalize “mob” and use apostrophes for Obama and Trump. We need to talk, Auto-Correct.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:01 amWhen did Lewandowski chase people down like prey, sucker-punch people out, make people fear for their very lives? W.T.F.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:02 am“They want to make America, Mexico. That’s not a “cause” it’s an invasion or a hostile takeover.”
– Hoagie
No, they don’t – no more than the flag-wavers at a St. Patrick’s Day parade want to make America into Ireland. Apparently brown people are the only people required to be ashamed of their ancestry. A number of them reject that requirement, and wave a flag to show it. If you were to tell me that I needed to “assimilate” and adopt “West Coast values” after moving to California from New Mexico, I’d be waving the New Mexico flag til the cows came home.
F*ckin deal with it. This is still America, despite Trump’s bellowed dream of a lesser nation.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:04 amnk nails it at 67.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:04 amOut: Neocons
In: Neocoms
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:08 amHaiku,
Lewandowski assaulted Fields by gra bing her. One or more people in this mob assaulted this Trump supporter by hitting her with eggs. Those are both assaults and they are illegal acts.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:11 am“the people who assaulted her think that she wants to have them, and their families, rounded up in the middle of the night, put on buses and deported;”
At a minimum, the rioting, Mexican flag-waving mutts need to be rounded up and prosecuted to the full extent of applicable laws.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:12 amIMO people in the Mob may also have committed other illegal acts, such as disorderly conduct, and they should be charged if so. It was a much more dangerous and scary situation than the Lewandowski-Fields encounter, but that doesn’t change the fact that both involved assaults. Frankly, getting hit by eggs is arguably less dangerous than getting grabbed and bruised.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:13 amWhat have you got against mutts, Haiku?
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:15 am“Make California Mexico Again!” they chanted while waving Mexican flags.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:17 am77… You are honestly trying to compare that, DRJ? Moral relativism.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:19 amIt’s a civil rights violation, as well as felony battery since it happened on the public way. But then so were the two attacks by Trumpkins on protesters who were already in police custody when they were sucker-punched.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:19 amThat lady wasn’t the only person attacked. Several people were physically assaulted (punched in the face), chased by mutt mobs, police were attacked, etc. This must be nipped in the bud before the SHTF.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:23 amAny mutts on either side who riot or physically assault others need to be jailed.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:24 amMutts… H8 ’em!
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:27 am79. Not if there is some food borne illness within its contents, which might be why I might go full astronaut food during Trump term 1 (fear of revenge-minded field hands and soon to be replaced by robot fast food workers).
That said you need to grab one of these punks, go John Burge (ex-CPD interregator extraordinaire) and get who’s paying him to be Heel to Trump’s golden boy. It wouldn’t be out of line to think Soros has taken a finger to the wind, switched sides for November and is lending out the goons to seal the deal.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:28 amWhere did I say disagreeing with me anywhere should not be allowed? Point it out.
Levidicus, as you pointed out I stated “They want to make America, Mexico. That’s not a “cause” it’s an invasion or a hostile takeover.” Observe:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChPLo6eWgAAL9z4.jpg
That’s a Mexican holding a flag and a sign to make America Mexico again. So which are you, an idiot or a liar?
This statement: “No, they don’t – no more than the flag-wavers at a St. Patrick’s Day parade want to make America into Ireland.” points to you being too ignorant to know the difference between waiving a flag for a celebration like Patties Day or Cinco de Mayo and waiving one in a hostile defiance of our country.
You then slip into your racist mode with: “Apparently brown people are the only people required to be ashamed of their ancestry.” nonsense. Where did I say that? Making up $hit again? When we live in a time when white people are being told they have no right to free speech because of “White Privilege” you gotta have real balls to insinuate that “only brown people are required to be ashamed” of any damn thing. Where exactly does intimidating and assaulting young girls fall as far as Mexicans celebrating their ancestry?
And this priceless nugget: “If you were to tell me that I needed to “assimilate” and adopt “West Coast values” after moving to California from New Mexico, I’d be waving the New Mexico flag til the cows came home.” is such a stupid, pointless, childish comparison it requires no response other than: Whaaaat?
Now, I don’t really know what you mean by “F*ckin deal with it. This is still America, despite Trump’s bellowed dream of a lesser nation.” other than you have some form of psychosis since that’s the only explanation for finding Trump’s motto “MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN” to be a “bellowed dream” for anything but greatness and hardly a lesser nation. Well, that or a very poor understanding of the English language. I am still allowed to say “English language” aren’t I?
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:41 amNo, you don’t, you need to shut it down. I don’t understand why people ever deliberately choose to allow a machine to change their words without asking.
Milhouse (87c499) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:49 am“No, they don’t – no more than the flag-wavers at a St. Patrick’s Day parade want to make America into Ireland.”
You are mistaken. The St. Pat flag wavers (who have assimilated, TYVM)are proud of their Irish heritage and celebrate their Irish-American culture. In contrast, The Mexican flag wavers are clearly filled with hatred, hatred for those who do not embrace their Mexican culture.
“Apparently brown people are the only people required to be ashamed of their ancestry.”
Why should you, or anyone suppose that? I am not ashamed, and I deeply resent that you think it to be some kind of valid point -this is soft bigotry.
“If you were to tell me that I needed to “assimilate” and adopt “West Coast values” after moving to California from New Mexico, I’d be waving the New Mexico flag til the cows came home.”
Oh, was that the New Mexico flag? I thought that was the Mexican flag – (freezing smile) my mistake.
“F*ckin deal with it”
That is the attitude of the mob. Is that what your democracy looks like?
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 8:56 amHeh, Hoagie.
” I am still allowed to say “English language” aren’t I?”
Yes, and you get bonus point from the left for saying it in
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:05 amSpanishMexican.What Lewandowski did to Fields was actually battery — not assault.
What these scumbag thugs did to this woman was assault.
Both cases are wrong, although Lewandowski could make a (very weak) case that he was admittedly overreacting to protecting Trump, whereas these thugs descended upon the woman without aggravation, other than the fact they object to her attending a Trump rally.
Everyone must stand up against these Alinsky tactics. This is America — not Chicago.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:06 amThere can be no moral equivalency between mobs because there is no morality in mobs.
Trump raised one mob and another has been raised against him.
Democracy my fat aunt Fannie. Trump works up mobs to a fever pitch and it’s stupid to whine that he got a mob he didn’t want.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:08 amRev H., you are taking those signs at face value. It didn’t say volver a california México
and that means something important.
And Leviticus’s point is that, if you have no problem with Irish Americans being proud of being Irish origin, and Italian Americans being proud of their Italian origins, and Greeks being proud of Greek origin….etc….why do you have a problem with Mexicans being of Mexican origin.
And they have the historical memory that most of the American Southwest and all of California was part of the biggest (or one of the biggest, at least) land grabs by the US government in the aftermath of the Mexican War. Until 1845 and thereabouts, the American Southwest as what we call the Deep South, and what we call the Southwest was the Mexican Northwest.
kishnevi (870883) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:09 amHoagie, at 52:
it’s a very hard thing to find a way to acknowledge *both* that the assholes who did this are responsible for their behavior *and* that, if someone is knowingly baiting them into it, then that person is *also* responsible.
I don’t know that Trump is knowingly baiting people looking for this kind of response, so I cannot say he is responsible. I *suspect* it, though; it’s an effective and amoral strategy, which is what I would expect from him.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:12 amI think it’s time we took a passage from our Dear Leader:
Punch back twice as hard.
Steve_in_SoCal (58e1f9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:14 am“And Leviticus’s point is that, if you have no problem with Irish Americans being proud of being Irish origin, and Italian Americans being proud of their Italian origins, and Greeks being proud of Greek origin….etc….why do you have a problem with Mexicans being of Mexican origin.”
– kishnevi
Yep.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:14 amRev. Hoagie, at 65: would you have also said that any attendee of tea party protests who was on social security should have their government support stopped?
I strongly suspect the answer is ‘no’, and I wonder to what degree the double standard is rooted in the nature of the politics being protested.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:15 amKish, I love you like a younger brother, but…
“And Leviticus’s point is that, if you have no problem with Irish Americans being proud of being Irish origin, and Italian Americans being proud of their Italian origins, and Greeks being proud of Greek origin….etc….why do you have a problem with Mexicans being of Mexican origin.”
Do you see the disconnect in your words?
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:16 amThat was 170 years ago, let it go.
narciso (732bc0) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:17 amThese same people are waving Mexican flags, saying California belongs to them (Mexico), and are flashing plenty of gang signs. F them and their supporters. I’d tear gas them, then deport them in a New York minute.
njrob (1cda05) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:18 am“Kiss me, I’m Irish-American!” said no T-shirt ever.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:18 amSubstantive point relating to the actual incident that was the original subject of the post:
CNN showed a video of the event filmed from inside the building. The security guards inside (who seemed to be non police, and therefore presumably hired by Trump’s campaign) waited to let the woman inside for two or three minutes, almost as if they wanted her to be attacked.
I have been, btw, seen some significant differences between CNN’s coverage of this sort of thing and that of other networks. Last week, at his San Diego rally, a large group of protesters were in front of the building, yelling and screaming and taunting Trump supporters as they came out of the building. As a precaution, the police had people attending the rally leave via the back of the building. The Trump supporters who were being taunted had to walk around the entire building before meeting the protestors. MSNBC made it sound like the Trump supporters went out of their way to confront the antiTrump forces. CNN made sure to explain that the Trump supporters in fact had no choice but to go by the antiTrump forces because that was the only way they could get to their cars and go home.
kishnevi (870883) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:18 amLeviticus, at 60:
we’ve been learning to hate each other for decades; it’s just that the hate has finally broken through into the open. :{
I *really wish* I could say I was immune to it, and honestly compels me to admit that I’m not, and I hate that about myself and about the situation.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:19 amPreach it, felipe! My wife and I think and feel about this as you do. It most definitely is the soft bigotry of low expectations that are the lifeblood of the Left. Their effing tribalism and ism ism ism…
All I am saying, is eff ’em in their loud pie-holes.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:21 amAre you really that stupid or just blind? They were waving signs stating that very fact. There is a major group of La Raza with that very goal. Keep your virtue signaling and leftism to yourself where it belongs. Your stupidity on this issue reaches happyfeet levels.
You just refuse to acknowledge there are plenty of racists and hate America types on the left because you identify with them.
njrob (1cda05) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:22 amI know, aphrael. I say it with disappointment in myself as well. My comments about Trump and his supporters over the last few months have been crafted to be deliberately hurtful, in a way that my comments on this site have not been crafted since I was a teenager.
We find ourselves in a bad situation.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:23 amFelipe, thank you, but that was simply a typo.
Narciso, 170 years is not really that long. My great grand father, for whom I am named, was already alive then, although he was just a young kid and would not get to the US for another fifty years or so.
And don’t forget I’m Jewish. We reclaimed the land stolen from us by the Romans even though it took almost 1900 years to do it.
kishnevi (870883) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:23 amAt the same time, I can’t help but laugh: what weekly newsletter is so widely circulated, that so many people on this site begin simultaneously chirping about “virtue signaling”?
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:25 am2016: Vox editor: If Trump comes to your town, start a riot.
http://hotair.com/archives/2016/06/03/vox-editor-if-trump-comes-to-your-town-start-a-riot/
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:26 amLeviticus: “virtue signalling” is a favorite catch-phrase of the alt-right.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:26 amLeviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:18 am
Oh brother.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:26 amLeviticus, I see you accept all charges and then try and change the topic.
Pathetic.
njrob (1cda05) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:27 amAphrael,
Hate to break it to you, but it’s reached mainstream because it is accurate. You on the left don’t care about right or wrong, you just want to feel superior because your feelings matter more than being correct. Hence “virtue signaling. ”
Congrats on entering the mainstream.
njrob (1cda05) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:30 amNo comment, watch it and decide
https://social.newsinc.com/media/json/69017/30929140/singleVideoOG.html?videoId=30929140&type=VideoPlayer/16×9&widgetId=2&trackingGroup=69017
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:33 amI’m not gonna bicker with you, dude. Plenty of people on the left/right do/don’t care about right/wrong. Pick your permutation, they’re all accurate. You want the ability to assign people a label and a set of characteristics simultaneously and arbitrarily. It doesn’t work like that.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:33 amHeh, I better say it before Aphrael does: “Fake but accurate.”
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:33 amI’m familiar with the meaning of the phrase.
But you’re wrong that it’s reached the mainstream. It may do so in the near future, *and* it hasn’t done so yet.
For what it’s worth, I both think that (a) it’s a useful analytical concept, and (b) *currently* usage of the phrase is indicative of exposure to alt-right rhetoric.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:34 amI have never tried to conceal that I go out of my way to offend Trumpkins every chance I get because I don’t think that Tiny Donnie and his talking Slovenian sex toy are fit to even say “White House” let alone live in it. No matter who the other person is who might get in. And I blame Trumpkins for it.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:34 amaphrael,
Human history is actually a record of hate, discord, murder, plunder, and pillage. I promise you it didn’t start “decades ago” because of American politics. (LOL)
This is why the Judeo-Christian value system of loving your neighbor as yourself, and of living a life to impress God on Judgment Day is so integral to maintaining a civil society. Because otherwise, it’s just dog eat dog, and the triumph of the strongest horse.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:34 amIn order to preserve a civil society, men must restrain themselves rather than give in to their impulses for physical violence. And the prospect of “judgment” is a good starting point in deterring those impulses.
Don’t miss a salient point by overly focuing on the violence of illegal aliens, yes, they’re blatant criminals, thugs, and ungrateful parasites. They come here to sponge off our entitlement programs and predictably they react violently when a prominent politician starts talking about kicking their sorry illegal asses out of the country.
Ostensibly, Hillary’s Brownshirts, they’re actually a noisy but relatively minor segment of Bernie Sanders’ support. The Vermont socialist is tied with Hillary and has the momentum going into the California primary. And everyone paying attention knows if it wasn’t for Hillary’s Super Delegates, Sanders would be way out in front of The Butcher of Baghdad.
Truth is the majority of Sanders’ support comes from the #NeverHillary wing of the Democrat Party faithful. Honest Democrats are displaying their revulsion of Hillary by voting for Sanders.
It’s not just conservatives who are outraged at the possibility of another corrupt Clinton in the White House (been there, done that) most Democrat voters don’t want Hillary any more than Trump’s supporters do. She’s unfit for public office – all Americans know it, the voters know it and her record proves it.
ropelight (596f46) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:34 amLeviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:33 am
I completely agree.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:34 amI’m pretty sure she’s actually technically ineligible for the Presidency, because an originalist understanding of the phrase “natural born citizen” (in the context of the Presidency) restricts the office to males.
Right, ropelight?
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:36 amCruz Supporter – American politics went through an unusually civil period in the post-war era, and while I would posit that what we’re seeing now is actually a reversion to normal, for those of us who *grew up* in a civil era, it’s a very strange and unsettling change.
It’s particularly frustrating to me to notice the feeling of hate in myself and to see myself engaging in hateful behavior; while I’m not Christian, the value system of loving my neighbor is nonetheless important to me, and I am *angry* at myself when I fail to adhere to it.
That said, I also have to acknowledge that it’s *hard*; there is so much hate being vented that it’s a struggle, sometimes, to not respond in kind.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:37 am> And everyone paying attention knows if it wasn’t for Hillary’s Super Delegates, Sanders would be way out in front of The Butcher of Baghdad.
While I somewhat wish that this were true, it isn’t; Sen. Clinton has a lead among pledged delegates and has won a majority of the delegates elected in primaries.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:38 amFelipe, at 117: I have absolutely no idea what you’re trying to say here. Can you please elaborate?
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:39 amIllegals and Bernie’s coming
AZ Bob (7d2a2c) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:39 amTrump’s finally on his way
This summer I hear the drumming
Four thumped in San Jose
And, yeah, “virtue signalling” has become a shibboleth, as has “SJW”, for a certain group of people. It’s too bad about “SJW”, but “Tumblerina” is still a fair alternative.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:39 am“SJW” is an interesting case because it was actually progressive activists who started using the term to describe themselves; then the alt-right started using the term *more broadly* to characterize and deride certain groups of people they don’t like.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:42 amChicken sh*t, sucker-punching pendejos
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:45 amGood one, azBob!
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:46 am“Felipe, at 117: I have absolutely no idea what you’re trying to say here. Can you please elaborate?
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:39 am
I will be happy to explain my silliness. The “fake, but accurate” attack is a favorite addendum to allegations of truth-spinning. Usually (exclusively?) lodged by those on the Right. I thought it amusing to have it used against the Right, for once. As I confessed, silly.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:48 amAZ Bob (7d2a2c) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:39 am
Lol!
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:49 amThank you for the explanation, felipe. 🙂
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:50 amI third Colonel Haiku and felipe, AZ Bob: that’s a good satire. 🙂
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:50 amaphrael,
The post-war civility in America is largely an outlier compared to the rest of the world.
The post-war years may have been “calm,” but that’s because so many people grew up during the Depression and WW2 and were hungry for stability.
But their offspring rebelled against that stability in the 1960s.
Just look at the record of human history — it’s a record of hate and discord. You lefties exist in this storybook fantasy world. Left wing politics are predicated upon resentment, jealousy, anger, and an inherent rage against the machine.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:51 am136
kishnevi (870883) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:59 amTrue, but often enough it also applies to “right wing politics” as well.
“Left wing politics are predicated upon resentment, jealousy, anger, and an inherent rage against the machine”, felipe said, without a trace of irony that nk could detect.
What on Earth is Trump’s entire campaign predicated on besides “resentment, jealousy, anger, and an inherent rage against the machine”?
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:02 amkishnevi (870883) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:59 am
I was thinking the same thing. Also, Cruz Supporter, enough with the “you lefties.” This sentiment sullies our spirit and soils the soul.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:05 amSo many of you leftists really don’t get that you have created this atmosphere with your constant method of division by race, creed, sexuality, religion and sex. You wanted people to hate each other, especially hate white men because it was easier than actually appealing to people through a sense of fairness and justice.
Congrats on getting what you wanted. Enjoy the consequences.
njrob (1cda05) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:08 amnk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:02 am
LOL, I said it before, and I will say it again:
You, sir, are on fire!
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:08 amHe appears to be against the mind-numbing, soul-crushing, anti-common sense political correctness nonsense. That’s in the plus column in my ledger.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:10 amFelipe,
If the term “you lefties” when discussing lefties causes you anxiety, you can always skip over my comments. (LOL)
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:12 amHmmm…separated at birth?
“So many of you rightists really don’t get that you have created this atmosphere with your constant method of division by race, creed, sexuality, religion and sex. You wanted people to hate each other, especially hate white men because it was easier than actually appealing to people through a sense of fairness and justice.
Congrats on getting what you wanted. Enjoy the consequences.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:14 amPerry (fabaca) — 6/3/2011 @ 11:11 pm
I’d wager dollars to donuts that there’s a whole lot of middle ground between being a self-hating white straight male leftist who thinks white straight males are the worst thing in the world and being a white straight male who refuses to believe that white straight males have ever wronged anyone in their eons of history as a demographic.
Let’s strive to find middle ground, here.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:14 amIs alt-right some catchphrase like neocon has become?
JD (2e3880) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:15 amIt previously was limited to aztlan activist, but that sentiment has been mainstreamed.
narciso (732bc0) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:16 amI’m pretty sure you missed my point, but that’s ok. (LOL)
Oh, and I made up the last quote, but the smart among you knew that.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:16 am142.He appears to be against the mind-numbing, soul-crushing, anti-common sense political correctness nonsense. That’s in the plus column in my ledger.
It is a plus. Unfortunately, it’s the only plus in my opinion, and outweighed by all the minuses.
And given the sort of person Trump is, I have to wonder how much of that is an act performed for the purpose of building up enthusiasm among those of who are tired of leftist PC, and how much of that is something he actually believes in.
kishnevi (870883) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:17 amThey still don’t get this doesn’t help their cause.
narciso (732bc0) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:18 amFelipe,
Take a bow, you’re too smart for us. It’s all that East Texas pine, huh?
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:19 amI wouldn’t waste too much time trying to figure out what Trump actually believes in.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:20 amI think I’ll sit down, now, before I hurt myself.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:21 amLeviticus, we should also waste no time electing Trump President. Wait, whatdidIsay?
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:23 am146.Is alt-right some catchphrase like neocon has become?
Well on its way, at least, to mean “whites who don’t care if people know they are racists”–and SWJs will no doubt expand that to mean all conservatives, including those who, like the people here at Patterico, are definitely not racists. But as I understand it, it was originally a euphemism used by white supremacists to obscure the fact that they are white supremacists.
kishnevi (870883) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:24 amSorry, felipe, for attributing CS’s comment to you, and thank you.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:24 amLeviticus you have this template through which view everything that has no connection with reality. You’re in your own little world.
VIDEOS AND PHOTOS OF FASCIST VIOLENCE IN SAN JOSE
Here, a Trump supporter is viciously sucker-punched by a leftist. Note the Mexican flag; a common chant at anti-Trump riots in California is “make California Mexico again.”
Anti-Trump rioters burn a U.S. flag
Rioters burned American flags and waved Mexican flags. Are they trying to tell us something?
Gerald A (945582) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:25 amNo apology necessary, I knew what was what, I just ducked and it hit its mark. The guy never saw it coming. Y’know? I might just do the same, later on, just as an in-joke between us.
Trolls will be confused, or pleased, I do not pretend to know the minds of trolls.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:30 amI didn’t even know what alt-right was, and I have used the phrases SJW and virtue signaling for quite a while.
JD (2e3880) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:32 amDo you know the way to San Jose
I’ve been away so long
It may go wrong the leftwing way
Do you know the way to San Jose
I’m going back to hear Donald Trump in San Jose
The border is a great big freeway
The fence is down and you won’t need a car
In a week, maybe two, they’ll give you a card
Hope turns into tears
How quick they pass
And all the jobs that never were
Yer eatin’ beans and passin’ gas
You can start a riot in San Jose
They’ve got a lot of space
They’ll tell the cops to stay away
Punches thrown, Hell raised in San Jose
You’ll get yer behind kicked in San Jose
TV cameras are a magnet
It will pull them out from under rocks
Don’t watch out you’ll leave wearing only yer socks
You turn yer back, get sucker punched
And there you are without a friend
They’ll eat yer balls maybe for lunch
This is how it ends in San Jose
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:41 amCan we drop a nuke on San Jose?
Felipe,
Since Perry is a leftard who enjoys trolling this site, should I just replace your name with his from now on? I expect you two have much in common.
njrob (1cda05) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:41 am“You’re in your own little world.”
– Gerald A
Aren’t we all.
Leviticus (efada1) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:43 amNow that was just mean.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:44 amI was called a SJW at Instapundit for being less than complimentary to gamers; and again at Popehat for being either against the legalization of marijuana or against death threats to federal judges who sentence dug dealers or both. Racists!
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:51 amColonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:41 am
The Colonel, showing us how it’s done!
njrob (1cda05) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:41 am
Do as you please, sir. My comments speak for themselves. If you read them, you will find that Perry and I share a genealogy that extend as far back as Adam and Eve. And that is as close a relationship as I am willing to have with him!
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:54 amPatterico,
What’s your policy on false attribution and making up comments about others?
That’s two now (at least) from felipe.
njrob (1cda05) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:56 amThat right there, is funny!
Yeah, let’s not offend Perry, by all means.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:59 amI don’t agree that the baiter is responsible for the attack on him, but that doesn’t mean he deserves sympathy. I keep thinking back to the Battle of Cable Street. I condemn the communists without reservation, but shed no tears for their victims. They had no right to beat the sh*t out of those fascists, and they ought to have gone to prison for it, but it couldn’t have happened to nicer people.
Milhouse (87c499) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:04 amRush Limbaugh played some audio. They were shouting “America was never great”
The purpose of all of this is probably to build motivation among their suppoorters, and deter anyone from arguing with them.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:20 amAmericans of Irish heritage do that at St. Patrick’s Day parades in Leviticus’ world.
Gerald A (945582) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:25 amLeviticus, here you are so full of sh*t. The Irish on St. Paddy’s day don’t demand that no American flags be flown on the same day. The Irish don’t demand that every day be St. Paddy’s day, and no American flags be flown because it’s “offensive.” The Irish don’t believe in anything equivalent to Aztlan, or the reconquista, because the evil Anglos “stole” their land.
Only (certain) Mexicans compare themselves to the Palestinians, both of whom falsely claim to be victims of an illegal occupation.
http://www.nationalmecha.org/
And from their “philosophy” page:
When the Boston Irish start calling their city “occupied Eire” or “occupied Hibernia” and announce their intention to “seek to free our people from the exploitation of an oppressive society that occupies our land” then your analogy won’t be the stupidest comment you’ve ever made on this blog, and perhaps anywhere. But the Irish aren’t claiming anything like that an never have. They’re proud to be Americans, just like Italians who wave the Italian flag on Columbus Day and display the American flag every other day, and therefore your analogy is as full of airheaded, idiotic leftist bullsh*t and as historically and culturally illiterate as these moronic Latino groups who actually have convinced themselves they’re the “indigenous” people of some mythical place called Aztlan in the American southwest. Here’s a clue; if we “stole” Mexican land it’s only because they stole it first, and they didn’t steal it from the Aztecs as the Aztecs weren’t living there. Here’s another clue; Spanish is not an indigenous language. It comes from Europe just like English. “Chicano nationalists” like the founders and members of groups like MEChA are not proud to be Americans. The hate America. They are racists who hide their racism behind the word “nationalist,” and rabidly anti-American leftists.
You f**kin’ deal with it. The above is reality. What you’re dealing in is pure propaganda because you’re dishonestly leaving out all the ways they’re different from other ethnic groups like the Irish. Those thugs who attacked the Trump supporters weren’t waving the Mexican flag out of mere pride in their “heritage.” They were carrying the Mexican flag because they think that’s the only flag that should be flying over the “lost territories of Aztlan.” They’re nothing like the Irish on St. Paddy’s day.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:28 amI must admit that I feel like the bear in “The Last Battle”,
struck down without even knowing what is going on…
I still haven’t figured out what “neocon” is supposed to signify…
Here I thought having virtue was a good thing…
Felipe, I don’t get what you did with attributing that fake quote,
I thought the original point was valid, the L wants to divide and cause strife,
so don’t be surprised to see the fruit of it.
Stirring up any kind of anger, envy, resentment, hatred, and ultimately armed conflict and revolution takes one places that are no longer under control.
Yes, interesting point about relative domestic tranquility after WW II, the country was largely united to fight a common foe,
MD in Philly (6d89d7) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:30 amthat started unraveling in the 60’s and has only gotten worse,
will a brief respite after 9/11.
That’s precisely the point. Trump’s campaign has been typical of what we expect to see on the left. It’s odd seeing it elsewhere. Until this year, political violence in America was almost exclusively a phenomenon of the left. And that’s what will be Trump’s undoing, if he keeps up with violence as a tactic — they’re better at it, because they’ve had more practise.
Milhouse (87c499) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:31 amI think it’s something like the right-wing version of nutroots.
Milhouse (87c499) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:35 amActually, not only does Aztlan only exist in myth, legend, and the imagination of racist Latino nationalist/separatist leftists, so do the Aztecs themselves.
http://archaeology.about.com/od/mameterms/a/Mexica.htm
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:35 am“Felipe, I don’t get what you did with attributing that fake quote,
I thought the original point was valid, the L wants to divide and cause strife,
so don’t be surprised to see the fruit of it.”
Oh, I’m not surprised, nor am I undeserving of whatever public opinion has formed from it. I wanted to see “what if Perry gad said it” would look like to others. I did not set out to prove that the point had no validity – if I had thought it invalid I would have said so, and explained why, as I did with an earlier comment.
I felt that the comment, itself, was ironically unhelpful. Perhaps my patience has worn thin over the last 50 comments, or so, from reading so many “you leftist” type sentiments. I should strive to struggle against all the hatred, at least half as well, as Aphrael and Kishnevi do.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:48 amLeviticus “full of sh*t”?!?! Say it isn’t so!
In other news, 100 degrees F temp feels kinda warm…
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:56 amFelipe – those of us that have a history with you trust and respect you, and understood what you were trying to do.
JD (2e3880) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:57 amOh Felipe, if you want to engage a commenter straight on, do it straight on.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:00 pmBut the passive aggressive third party twice removed monologues are kind of cheesy.
Yes, you are right, Cruz Supporter. I’ve made that mistake before, I’ve got to stop.
Thank, for the king words, JD. I always appreciate reading kind words on this blog, to whomever they are addressed.
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:06 pmThere’s seems to be an attempt to confuse peoplle as to who sttarted this, or what happened. That’s coming only from some Democrats, not from the media.
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:06 pmCruz Supporter, at 136:
I’m confused by your remark, as I have a hard time understanding how these can both be simultaneously true:
> You lefties exist in this storybook fantasy world.
> Left wing politics are predicated upon resentment, jealousy, anger, and an inherent rage against the machine.
They seem to be incompatible to me.
I agree that the post-war civility in America was an outlier, and that’s why I think that what’s happening now is a reversion to normal. But the *intellectual* knowledge of that doesn’t make the *experience* of witnessing the transition any less disorienting or distressing.
———
NJRob, at 140:
> So many of you leftists really don’t get that you have created this atmosphere with your constant method of division by race, creed, sexuality, religion and sex.
How would you like (for example) a gay man to say “hey! I’ve been treated differently from other people, to my detriment, *because* of my sexuality, and I want it to stop!”
From what I can tell, *any* attempt to do that gets read by many as attempting to create division. And I would argue that the people creating the division are those who *treat people detrimentally because of these statuses*, not the people who say “this inequitable treatment has got to stop.”
I’m really baffled by this.
—-
Cruz Supporter, at 143:
I don’t like terms like ‘you [x]’ *in general* because they impute to an *individual* the characteristics of the *stereotype of a group* without considering whether that individual actually has those characteristics. As a debating tactic, it sets up a strawman and baits the other person to respond to the strawman.
So I don’t tend to use such terms. I’d prefer that nobody did, and *shrug* I don’t get to tell you how to debate. 🙂
—-
JD, at 146: alt-right is a term that a certain segment of conservatives use to describe themselves. Kishnevi’s comments in 155 notwithstanding, I hope it *doesn’t* get expanded to “all conservatives”; doing so deprives the word of its meaning and therefore of its analytical usefulness.
Both the use of “SJW” as a term of derision and the term “virtue signalling” first came to my attention through the alt-right, and the phrases feature prominently in alt-right conversations.
—-
Milhouse, at 168: there’s a really interesting philosophical discussion in here. If I do [x] knowing at an 80% level of certainty that you will respond to my doing [x] by doing [y], and [y] is harmful to someone, *I* think I have moral responsibility for the harm.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:12 pmThe mayor critized Trump for not abiding by the heckler’s veto.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Donald-Trump-Rally-in-San-Jose-Draws-Protesters-381728251.html
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:21 pmI am beginning to see a “Constitutional Vanguard” argument for electing Trump. It’s not that Trump is any better that Hillary, or any worse. It’s that all “right-thinking people” (which means left-thinking people) will oppose him.
As in “Only Nixon could
go to Chinaget impeached for Watergate.” If President Hubert Humphrey had bugged the election headquarters of that radical Ronald Reagan in 1972, do you really think Woodward and Bernstein and the WaPo would have gone to the mattresses to bring him down? I didn’t think so.But the result of Watergate was that excesses of prior presidents, such as LBJ, were tacitly acknowledged and outlawed, for a time, in order to get at Nixon. And the reforms lasted much longer than the damage to the GOP.
Both Hillary and Trump seem likely to continue and expand on Obama’s defacement of the Constitution. As we can see from these authorized riots (and BLM and etc) Hillary, the Dems and their footsoldiers in the press will turn a blind eye when the violence is directed at the Right. But let a single harsh word be directed at someone on the left, and it’s coast-to-coast headlines.
So, unless we want to see this continue ad nauseum, it’s important to elect Trump and then, should he step over the line, we can rely on allies in the press and the Dems to make an example of him.
We will never restore constitutional order by attacking Democrats, but a handy clueless “Republican” will do nicely.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:33 pmAnd that, at least where the harm is done to you, is what they call “blaming the victim”.
Really, what it is, is treating me as if I were an automaton, not responsible for my own actions. Now if [x] really does turns me temporarily into an automaton, i.e. the reaction you deliberately elicited from me came automatically, without my thinking about it, then yes, you are responsible, both morally and legally. If you hit my knee with a hammer, having positioned someone else’s face where you know my foot will end up, you have assaulted that person and I have not. Ditto if you rile up a crowd and turn them on someone. That is why incitement is a crime. But note the legal definition of incitement: “where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.” If I speak or act in a way that is merely likely to persuade you to do some wrong of your own volition then I am not responsible, at least in law.
Milhouse (87c499) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:37 pmMilhouse, I agree as to the law; I’m talking about ethics.
If I behave in a way that I know with reasonable certainty will create an emotional state in you such that you will then choose to do [x], am I not responsible for the outcome?
The more clear case is this: If I behave in a way that I know with reasonable certainty will create an emotional state in you such that you will then choose to do [x], and I behave in that way with the deliberate intent of bringing about [x], I am, I think *clearly*, responsible for [x].
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:44 pmCruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/2/2016 @ 9:18 pm
No. I find it ironic.
Hunkahillbilly (e8f5cb) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:50 pm(1) Walking around with visible valuables in a bad neighborhood
(2) A woman wearing provocative clothing (or lack thereof) and walking around in a bad neighborhood
Milhouse (87c499) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:57 pmYou seem to be fixated on the case where the person doing the inducing is also the person harmed, which is not the case I’m referring to; I’m referring to the case where the person doing the inducing is *knowingly intending harm to some third party*.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:00 pm“There’s a really interesting philosophical discussion in here. If I do [x] knowing at an 80% level of certainty that you will respond to my doing [x] by doing [y], and [y] is harmful to someone, *I* think I have moral responsibility for the harm.”
Absolving the perpetrators of violence unleashed in response to expressed opinion or speech is what this amounts to. This is only acceptable to moral and ethical degenerates.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:01 pmColonel Haiku: how does that absolve them?
*I* am responsible *and* they are responsible.
Responsibility need not attach to only one person.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:04 pmI say we offer the new land of Assland, which will encompass the far Southeastern corner (65 square miles) of California to all of these folks who believe human sacrifice was the height of civilization… the folks who sport tattoos or hang velvet paintings of romanticized Aztec warriors and princesses.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:14 pmThat’s one of those “chilling effects” on free speech, aphrael, and I don’t think there’d be enough safe spaces to protect the people who are only sharing their opinions. But you are welcome to blameshare…
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:18 pm“What miserable drones and traitors have I nourished and brought up in my household, who let their lord be treated with such shameful contempt by a low-born cleric?”
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:20 pmTRUMP SUPPORTERS TERRORIZED BY MOB…
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:20 pm‘NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN AMERICA’…
CAMPAIGNERS CHASED DOWN LIKE PREY…
DOZENS PUNCHED…
POLICE ASSAULTED…
SAN JOSE MAYOR JUSTIFIES VIOLENCE…
VIDEO: FEMALE PELTED WITH HUEVOS…
MEXICAN FLAGS RAISED AS AMERICAN FLAG BURNS…
188. A couple years ago, a young black woman did get kicked out of an Oakland area Planet Fitness by site’s managment for looking good in a sport bra and biker shorts get up – I felt this was just the example you brough up in #2 and not at all due to Planet Fitness’ flabby-uber-alles business model.
192. Just make sure that none of that touches Yuma or other parts of AZ.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:23 pmLeviticus,
I forgot to mention all the burning American flags and Trump hats while they were waving the Mexican flag.
They do that all the time at St. Patty’s Day parades, right?
NJRob (a07d2e) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:29 pm190.“There’s a really interesting philosophical discussion in here. If I do [x] knowing at an 80% level of certainty that you will respond to my doing [x] by doing [y], and [y] is harmful to someone, *I* think I have moral responsibility for the harm.”
Maybe, maybe not.
If the “you” is something that does not have control over its own actions, then yes I am responsible. For example, if I throw a stone, I am responsible for whatever damage it does.
But if the “you” does have control over its own actions, then I am not responsible for what it does. You are responsible for your own actions.
fred-2 (ce04f3) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:31 pm“Trump rally brings violence”
– aphrael
Violence caught the Caltrans 5:35PM bus at the corner of 2nd St. and California Ave. and mysteriously appeared at a peaceful Republican political rally…
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:31 pmThat’s not what happens and you know it. Unless you mean being treated differently is being blind to reality. A homosexual having a partner is not the same as a man and woman getting married and starting a family. That’s called truth, not discrimination. It’s no different than saying a man should not be in a ladies bathroom because he’s decided to identify as a woman. That’s a mental illness.
The emperor was naked. Didn’t you learn anything growing up?
Let me guess. I don’t know what I’m talking about because of my “white privilege” and now I’m “mansplaining.”
Do I have that right?
Should I go sit down quietly and allow my disenfranchised betters the time to talk so they don’t feel uncomfortable and need to retreat to their “safe space?”
NJRob (a07d2e) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:35 pmColonel Haiku – please do not take things I have not said, bracket them with quote marks, and attribute them to me.
I will reiterate what I said elsewhere:
* I *know* that there’s an amoral negotiation tactic which involves baiting the person you are negotiating with into an emotional response that will cause them to act against their own interest
* This is, from what I can tell, actually the business model of the Westboro Baptist Church: outrage people and bait them into violent responses and then sue them.
* Some of what Trump says and does strikes me as being similar; it looks like it’s intended to bait people into an emotional reaction.
* The people who are reacting to the bait by physically assaulting other people are violent criminals who should be prosecuted and imprisoned for their crimes
* AND at the same time, if I’m right that Trump is intending to bait people into this kind of behavior, then he has some moral responsibility for the outcome.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:36 pmSo the jurors were responsible for the Rodney King riots?
NJRob (a07d2e) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:38 pmaphrael,
It’s a little scary that you see civility as an exercise in intellectualism.
I actually see civility as an exercise in behavior.
Having a tizzy fit about me saying “you lefties,” versus, “lefties” is nothing more than verbal masturbation. It’s a Barack distraction from truth.
There’s a left wing, and there’s a right wing. And it’s not just “right wingers!!!!!” who make that distinction.
As a left winger, you demand more government control over people’s lives. Okay, but stand proudly behind that.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:41 pmDon’t patronize us with carefully crafted lawerly definitions — just put it out there. We all know how to delineate between left wing and right wing.
No issue with felipe doing this of others?
NJRob (a07d2e) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:42 pmNJ Rob – I would never tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about because of your ‘white privilege’, and I don’t think it’s possible for you (a man) to mansplain anything to me (a man), so no, you don’t have it right.
While I might conceivably ask you to stay out of a space which I had specifically constructed to be a ‘safe space’, I would be doing so as the proprietor of that space, and would be within my rights to do so; it would never occur to me to *attempt* to do that here, as you and I are both invited guests to Patterico’s space, and so attempting to do so would be the height of rudeness.
Besides which, that’s not what this space is *for*.
It’s quite clear from your comment at 200 that you’re not talking to me; you’re talking to your preconceived notion of me that is based in prejudice rather than in knowledge of me as a person.
That’s frustrating, because I have tried really hard to interact with everyone here as individuals rather than as avatars of conservatism who I assume adhere to my preconceived notions about what conservatives will think, and I would like to be treated the same way in response.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:45 pmNJRob, at 204 – I do not like felipe doing it to others, AND I am human enough to be more offended when it is done to me than when it is done to others.
I would feel compelled to upbraid felipe for it if I felt he were sufficiently part of my tribe that I had responsibility to regulate his behavior, if I felt that this space were sufficiently mine that I were responsible for policing it, or if I had a relationship with him such that it was within my rights, as his friend, to call him out for misbehaving. None of those things apply.
But I do feel like i’m within my rights to object to Colonel Haiku’s treatment *of me*.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:49 pm201… paraphrased, but, in essence, you said as much, aphrael. Don’t kid yourself.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 1:57 pmI wasn’t criticizing Felipe or his comment,
I didn’t get it
I am preoccupied today and not getting a lot of things
Until tomorrow
MD in Philly (6d89d7) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:03 pmaphrael,
You would make a great gymnast. Or you could sell pretzels!
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:15 pm“201… paraphrased, but, in essence, you said as much, aphrael. Don’t kid yourself.”
No, no he did not. Paraphrasing doesn’t require the use of quotes. I agree with aphrael about 5% of the time, but respect him 100% of the time. You guys are being dlcks.
JD (2e3880) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:23 pmThat’s, like, your opinion, man. And if being a dick was a crime, you’d be serving a 20 year stretch, chuckles.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:30 pmJust my $.02…
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:31 pmSafe spaces for sale… get yer safe space here…
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:36 pm> I actually see civility as an exercise in behavior.
Of course civility is an exercise in behavior!
My contention is this: it is uncivil to impute to someone ideas that you do not know them to hold, or behavior in which you have not seen them engage.
It’s a common incivility. It’s a hard incivility to be on guard against, and I am guilty of doing it on occasion even though I am usually *looking* for it and trying to avoid it.
And it’s an incivility nonetheless.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:38 pmJonah Goldberg 3:35 pm EDT:
http://link.nationalreview.com/view/547fa3563b35d0210c8be8f5433av.6jt5/a361a5f2
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:38 pmNJRob, at 202:
that’s an interesting philosophical question, thank you.
My first reaction was “the rioters were responsible”.
My second reaction was “and jurors have an ethical responsibility to abide by their oath and ignore the potential for things like this, anyhow, and that ethical responsibility would obviate whatever moral responsibility would otherwise attach”.
But I think there’s a lot to think about in the question, and I appreciate you offering it. 🙂
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:40 pmUsing your logic, aphrael, a woman wearing a short skirt while walking in a wooded park gets dragged behind bushes and gets sexually assaulted shares that responsibility, is also to blame for the assault. After all, men are incapable of not acting upon their baser instincts. That’s how I interpret what you’re saying.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:51 pmThat’s *not* what i’m saying, which is why I redirected earlier to injury to third parties.
What you are saying strikes me as being equivalent to saying that Henry II wasn’t, after all, responsible for the murder of Thomas Becket.
I’m sure there’s a middle ground. 🙂 Where and how we draw that middle ground is, I think, actually a pretty good indicator of whether we are of a more liberal, or more conservative bent, and I’d love to explore that.
That said, I have to run – I have things to do this evening and will likely not be online for several days due to life-business. I regret bowing out of a conversation like this, and yet I *need* to.
Til next time. 🙂
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 2:58 pm“When Violence Roams the Streets, Intellectuals Quaver in the Shadows.”
-Ace
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:02 pmSometimes there is more than 100% wrongdoing.
Just because one party is 100% responsible for their own evil action,
doesn’t mean another party is 100% innocent.
The attitude that says that I should be able to walk anywhere I dam* well please anytime I want is a foolish, unrealistic, and arrogant attitude,
no matter who thinks it.
Provocative dress and behavior ( though what falls under those categories is a matter for discussion) is inappropriate in itself.
Sin will happen, but woe to those by which it comes.
The rioters are 100% responsible for their own actions,
but if Trump willfully says and does things hoping to provoke violence,
he is not without his own guilt.
There is almost always a lot of blame to go around.
MD in Philly (6d89d7) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:11 pm“Nietzsche mentioned that in a decadent society, the decayed cultivate “luxurious concerns” — concerns as luxury goods and badges of rank.
Many of us think that on a day of open challenge to the rule of law and civil politics generally, perhaps these luxurious concerns could be put aside for one day — or at least a few hours — to talk about actual reality its ugly, brutish, but inescapable configurations.
And so it is I am re-examining my belief that intellectuals are vital and strong creatures, and falling back into my old bias against them as being decadent, weak, timorous, and frightened by reality.
Something ugly, dangerous, and thoroughly anti-American happened last night.
If you can’t summon the courage to your fingertips to comment upon it from a safe distance, then who the fuck needs you?
To Clarify: I don’t consider intellectuality a sign of weakness at all. These two things should not be associated with each other.
Ideally, the intellectual is in fact brave — or, at least, brave in the psychological, social, and mental ways of being brave. (Few intellectuals are physically brave; but then, few men are physically brave, period. You can’t hold it against an intellectual that he shies away from physical danger and even discomfort just like 98% of the male population.)
But if the intellectuals themselves choose this path, no one can shy from noticing.
I mean, at least show the bravery of denouncing something easily denounced.
Or would that help Trump too much…? Are we now gaming out which principles we should speak a word in favor of according to which candidate might indirectly benefit from our utterances…?”
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/363861.php
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:16 pm“Nietzsche mentioned that in a decadent society, the decayed cultivate “luxurious concerns” — concerns as luxury goods and badges of rank.
Many of us think that on a day of open challenge to the rule of law and civil politics generally, perhaps these luxurious concerns could be put aside for one day — or at least a few hours — to talk about actual reality its ugly, brutish, but inescapable configurations.
And so it is I am re-examining my belief that intellectuals are vital and strong creatures, and falling back into my old bias against them as being decadent, weak, timorous, and frightened by reality.
Something ugly, dangerous, and thoroughly anti-American happened last night.
If you can’t summon the courage to your fingertips to comment upon it from a safe distance, then who the f**k needs you?
To Clarify: I don’t consider intellectuality a sign of weakness at all. These two things should not be associated with each other.
Ideally, the intellectual is in fact brave — or, at least, brave in the psychological, social, and mental ways of being brave. (Few intellectuals are physically brave; but then, few men are physically brave, period. You can’t hold it against an intellectual that he shies away from physical danger and even discomfort just like 98% of the male population.)
But if the intellectuals themselves choose this path, no one can shy from noticing.
I mean, at least show the bravery of denouncing something easily denounced.
Or would that help Trump too much…? Are we now gaming out which principles we should speak a word in favor of according to which candidate might indirectly benefit from our utterances…?”
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/363861.php
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:18 pmYeah but if you walk alongside the road long enough anywhere in California, a Mexican will egg you.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:18 pmHoagie 88:
First, I didn’t say disagreeing with you isn’t allowed. I said you seem to think speech you find repulsive shouldn’t be allowed. For example, as I read the comments, you (and others) would deport Mexican flag-wavers and American flag-burners. My guess is you don’t think they are here legally but we don’t know that, so you would be deporting them for expressing their opinions.
I find their opinions distasteful, too, but the law considers that speech. (Again, I am talking about their signs, flags, etc., not their criminal behavior. I agree criminal behavior should be identified, charged, and punished.) But I don’t want to punish speech no matter how distasteful, because there are too many people who would use that as an excuse to punish conservatives when they don’t like our speech. To punish someone for speech is antithetical to our values, and one of the many things I don’t like about Trump is that he is fundamentally careless and clueless about those values.
Second, I bet you like to wave the American flag and you probably don’t care much for the Mexican flag. You might even be tempted to burn a Mexican flag to make a statement, right? That is speech and it’s legal and permissable, but it wouldn’t be if we follow the rule above.
PS to Milhouse – You are right about Auto-Correct but I often use tablets and Auto-Correct is useful wit tablet keyboards.
PSS to Cruz Supporter and others – Thank you for correcting my comments that confuse assault and battery. I have made that mistake for almost 40 years, despite the diligent efforts of my Crim Law professor.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:24 pm’bout the only safe space is the swap meet. Yep. Denio’s farmers market and auction, the only truly safe spot left in the State.
Which is strange because it’s full of Mexicans and they sell eggs.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:25 pmNo excuses for the physical aggression, it should not be allowed but prosecuted,
MD in Philly (6d89d7) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:27 pmif it is not, those in authority should expect it to escalate, bilaterally.
The attacks will increase,
and people will be prepared to defend themselves instead of fleeing.
It is what humans do.
Check out the chaos in the courtroom victim’s dad does the full Superman lunging for the killer.
Impressive for a man of that girth.
(YouTube)
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/3/2016 @ 3:33 pmaphrael (e0cdc9) — 6/3/2016 @ 12:12 pm
So Martin Luther King and his associates was really responsible for the people beaten at Selma, and for the people murdered by the Ku Klux Klan.
Sammy Finkelman (eb1481) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:01 pmSaying that you will enforce our laws is never an incitement to riot.
While Cruz’s handling of Colorado’s primaries struck my personal wedge and put me in Trump’s camp, the leftist lawbreaking and rioting have solidified my position.
Ingot (9fab2f) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:15 pmaphrael,
I don’t think speech is immoral, even if it results in harm, because the person causing harm has the free will to ignore what others say. Any harm done would be the actor’s choice. But if you don’t believe in free will, then you could view speech as immoral. Wouldn’t all speech have the potential to be immoral under that theory?
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:16 pmOf course, intentionally deceptive, manipulative or fraudulent speech would be immoral.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:18 pmI was thinking about nk’s appeal to St. Patricks Day parades as this being normal behavior for loyal Americans. Can’t remember ever seeing a tribe of Irish flag wavers. So that let to google.
Here’s the Irish Flag. (jpg)
No wonder. And what were all those Irishmen in San Jose pissed off about?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:19 pmour actions may be actual causes of other peoples’ actions, but our actions are rarely (if ever) the proximate causes of other peoples’ actions. We can acknowledge these things simultaneously, and with moral consistency.
Leviticus (4c32a3) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:22 pmI’m searching for a word, perturbed, that’s it. There is nothing I have said here or anywhere else that would indicate I believe any speech whether I personally find it repulsive or not should not be allowed. DRJ, are you trying to portray me as some knuckle dragging piece of trailer trash who has no regard for the First Amendment? If so why? I’m a conservative so by nature I love, respect and live by the word as well as the spirit of the Constitution and would never deny another American the very same rights I adore.
You opined “For example, as I read the comments, you (and others) would deport Mexican flag-wavers and American flag-burners. My guess is you don’t think they are here legally but we don’t know that, so you would be deporting them for expressing their opinions.”. Myself and others? Which others? Who among us has expressed a desire to deport Mexican flag wavers or/and American flag burners? Ever? But you are correct about one thing: I do not believe they’re here legally and yes, I don’t “know” that for sure. But assuming they are that would be the reason to deport them not having anything to do with any flag and certainly nothing to do with their opinions.
You never Trump guys have got to stop affixing the worst possible reasons or intentions to every action of those with whom you disagree. If a crowd of hostile German chiropractors intimidated and assaulted Trump supporters I’d feel the same way.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:23 pmSame people who blamed Sarah Palin’s endorsement literature for the Gabby Gifford shooting.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:27 pmPress 1 for English.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:35 pmPress 2 for Spanish.
Press 3 for Trumpkinese.
And Martin Luther King did it on purpose. He sicced Bukll Conner on the marchers, right? This was actually on purpose.
Of course most people were volunteers.
Sammy Finkelman (eb1481) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:35 pmFunny how you never see anyone Right of center bum-rushing Clinton or Sanders (or any other) political rallies or – like true cowards – sucker punching and physically assaulting attendees. NEVER. It’s telling that the Divider-in-Chief -another coward – hasn’t seen fit to weigh in on what happened last night. Why one might think he condones mindless violence in America.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:46 pmYou trying to tell us that Trump is like Martin Luther King, Sammy?
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:51 pmSoon to be:
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:52 pmPress 1 for English
Press 2 for Spanish
Press 3 for Farsi
Is that really how you read what Sammy wrote? Because there were full blown riots at King rallies so Trump still has a way to go.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:55 pmThe Brownshirts are on the march… http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/06/videos-and-photos-of-fascist-violence-in-san-jose.php
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:03 pmHoagie:
Your words in comment 65, Hoagie. You want them gone because they are protesting to Make America
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:09 pmGreatMexico. You want them gone because of their beliefs. I sympathize with your concerns. It isn’t good for America to have so many people who reject our values, but one of those values is free speech.I owe both aphrael and JD an apology. I should not have used quotation marks when I was paraphrasing what I had interpreted aphrael to be saying. And JD is not any more of a dick than the average Joe. I know I have my moments.
and on a lighter note, we just heard that our next (2nd) grandchild “will be a masculine child”, as Luca Brasi might say. Looks healthy so far, too. I am so thankful for both.
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:10 pmI am not attacking you, Hoagie, and I am not portraying you as anything. I am making a point about free speech, flag-burning, and flag-waving. I’m sorry this upset you.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:15 pmThe anti-Trump protesters are not Brownshirts. They’re Red Front. Trump wishes he had Brownshirts and a Horst Wessel to counter with, but he never will. Below is why in bolded:
In terms of demographics, Trump’s supporters are a bit older, less educated and earn less than the average Republican. Slightly over half are women. About half are between 45 and 64 years of age, with another 34 percent over 65 years old and less than 2 percent younger than 30. One half of his voters have a high school education or less, compared to 19 percent with a college or post-graduate degree. Slightly over a third of his supporters earn less than $50,000 per year, while 11 percent earn over $100,000 per year. Definitely not country club Republicans, but not terribly unusual either.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2015/09/09/who_are_trumps_supporters.html (Warning, tons of adware)
Not only has the Left been doing this for a lot longer and is better at it like Milhouse said, they are also much younger and tougher, less timid because they are younger, and can play hardball where Trump can only talk it.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:40 pmthe economist had a more up to date analysis, i’m not accepting your godwin law violation,
http://spectator.org/ho-chi-minhs-dupe/
narciso (732bc0) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:46 pmYeah, the left is so slick they’ll shoot themselves in both feet and bleed to death over the course of 4 years.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:48 pmThey are “Venezuela smart”…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:50 pmcongrats coronello,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:51 pmI’m trying to figure out why police have not been able to figure out that the thugs are attacking Trump supporters who are trying to leave the parking garages.
steveg (fed1c9) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:54 pmThe thugs have figured out that people have to walk or drive through them to get to their vehicles and then to drive out
Thank you very much, narciso. Our branch of the family name lives on!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/3/2016 @ 5:56 pmhttp://www.mercurynews.com/crime-reports
Maybe it’s all this other stuff the San Jose Police Department had to do first.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:02 pmI wouldn’t be surprised to see bikers and veteran’s groups start to show up at these Trump rallies to help provide some protection to participants, since the police apparently won’t. Of course, that’s when we’ll see the police become a little more active.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:13 pmIt isn’t good for America to have so many people who reject our values, but one of those values is free speech.
Advocating for the sovereignty of California to revert to Mexico is the same as advocating for the overthrow of the US government in California. That’s not free speech. It is, at best, sedition.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:55 pmCongratulations, Colonel! Ah, family!
felipe (429749) — 6/3/2016 @ 6:58 pmAs a matter of fact, looking at the definitions of sedition and how it has been used, when foreign nationals use violence to attack the constitutional order (e.g. election campaigning) it is pretty much the basic definition of “sedition.”
Kevin M (25bbee) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:02 pmI wouldn’t be surprised to see bikers and veteran’s groups start to show up at these Trump rallies to help provide some protection to participants
Yeah, what could go wrong with the Hell’s Angels providing security for a big event in Northern California?
Just sayin’
Kevin M (25bbee) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:05 pmGood way for the police to fill some outstanding warrants.
Or Trump could hire some professional security guards instead of actors to lead the cheering on cue.
nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:13 pmThanks, felipe!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:45 pmAnd conspiracy, Kevin M. They should be vigorously prosecuted if the facts support it.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:50 pmYeah, what could go wrong with the Hell’s Angels providing security for a big event in Northern California?
Just sayin’
Kevin M (25bbee) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:05 pm
============================================
Just get ’em jacked up on crank, acid and free beer and they’ll handle things just fine, thank you very much.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:51 pmHowever, I think sedition requires speech that incites people to rebel against the government. I’m not sure we’ve seen that.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:52 pmre the narrative,
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2016/04/daily-chart-14
narciso (732bc0) — 6/3/2016 @ 7:53 pmPowerlineblog discusses an AP article that tries to equate waving the Mexican flag with Irish or Italian Americans waving flags of their ancestral lands:
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:15 pmIt’s a very good point, Gus. I just don’t understand why you’re acting like I am on the side of the people who did the egging.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:51 pmIs that a reference to me, somehow? Because if it is, read the post again.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/3/2016 @ 9:51 pmThat is sad, but I think it’s great that you have been posting here since you were a teenager. You’re probably the only person who has posted here for years since you were a teenager. I think that’s pretty cool.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:20 pmI love it. “Don Corleone, I am honored and grateful that you have invited me to your home on the wedding day of your daughter. And may their first child be a masculine child.”
Congratulations.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:21 pmyes, it’s been dissapointing, my candidate didn’t win either, but this has gotten a little obsessive, perhaps not ahab, but wile e coyote,
narciso (732bc0) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:37 pmThis is an odd post on which to make the complaint. I am highlighting and criticizing violence by thuggish leftists against Trump supporters.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:49 pm269… Thank you very much!
Colonel Haiku (cdccbe) — 6/3/2016 @ 10:51 pm95 … knowingly baiting them …
And what’s your definition of “knowingly baiting”? Refusing to go along with some politically correct lie?
James B. Shearer (5c63dc) — 6/3/2016 @ 11:49 pmOh, then do you agree that soldiers in Great Britain and Australia shouldn’t wear their uniforms in public because they know or should know that will create an emotional state in Muslims that will make them choose to commit or attempt murder? After all, we must not offend. And there’s almost nothing that doesn’t offend Muslims. Maybe not all Muslims, but enough.
Actually if you recall, just the mere presence of British soldiers in London provoked Michael Adebolajo and his accomplices to run Drummer Rigby down and cut him up. He wasn’t wearing his uniform but he had just come out of a barracks in the Woolwich district of greater London. So I suppose Drummer Rigby shares the blame for his murder because he cshould have known with reasonable certainty that his presence in London would cause an “emotional state,” i.e. such offense in Muslims that they would resort to violence. How should he have known? For the same reason he wasn’t wearing his uniform in public. British soldiers had been told not to do so because of the threat of violence.
So I suppose those Trump supporters share the blame for getting what they got from that violent mob. Because they were wearing t-shirts with the US flag. And they should have known with reasonable certainty that would create an emotional state among the racist Latino nationalist/separatists who want to make the American southwest “Mexico again.” How dare they display the American flag on their “stolen and occupied” land!
And of course
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/4/2016 @ 12:25 amI actually hit the submit button. Or my laptop that has developed a will of its own did it for me.
The problem is aphrael there’s no end to the sort of capitulation you’re talking about as if it’s an ethical responsibility. Freedom of speech and freedom of expression is one of the pillars of Western civilization. And I know a lot of people will become emotionally disturbed when I say this but Western civilization is the most advanced civilization on earth precisely because we protect offensive speech. Inoffensive speech doesn’t require protection. We have a moral and ethical responsibility to offend people when we are speaking what we believe to be the truth. Truth is one of the most offensive things you can tell someone. But following the truth no matter who is offended has been the key to all of Western civilization’s advances, which have surpassed all other civilizations. And benefited the entire planet.
It is a fundamental principle that speech or expression is never an excuse for violence. The campus crybullies and indeed just the products of leftist public school education at all levels have been told that speech is the same thing as actual physical violence, that what we used to consider minor slights are now microaggressions, and therefore aggression, and therefore one can justifiably respond with actual “macroaggressions” such as we saw in San Jose, and that you’re simply not responsible for your actions if someone “triggers” them by using “trigger words.”
http://www.salemnews.com/news/local_news/philip-chism-told-police-trigger-word-made-him-angry-at/article_26693d1b-0987-581e-bae5-2cf6fc4447ea.html
Yes, of course. A “trigger word” caused him to beat his teacher, rape her twice, then kill her and dump her body in the woods. Fortunately the jury didn’t buy his insanity defense and he’s in prison. But the way things are going we’re not far from the day when a jury may well find such a defense entirely plausible.
People who won’t control themselves when someone speaks for expresses themselves in such a way (such as saying he’s going to build a border wall, or wearing t-shirt with an American flag, or a military uniform) that it creates “an emotional state in you such that you will then choose to do [x]” they belong in prison along with Philip Chism, currently serving a life sentence. Such people don’t belong walking around in civilized society. They don’t deserve
I’m not going to walk on eggshells around the perpetually, and in some cases the professionally, offended. I have a moral and ethical obligation to offend them by telling them what they don’t want to hear. Or what they don’t want others to know about them (such as quoting the Quran and the Hadith accurately to show that Islam does not mean peace but submission and while not all Muslims are terrorists, Muhammad certainly was).
The preservation of the First Amendment requires that we don’t worry about what someone’s emotional reaction will be, even if we know ahead with certainty. If they can’t handle the truth or a criticism someone believes to be the truth and they will fly into a rage in response and commit violence and mayhem and even murder they have not excuse. It is entirely on them and them alone. It is never, ever the speaker’s fault. And neither you nor I share any of the blame.
You are getting the concept of freedom of expression all wrong, aphrael.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/4/2016 @ 1:17 amSurah 3:151 Ali ‘Imran (Family of Imran)
Surah 8:12 Al-Anfal (The Spoils of War)
By the way, this is precisely what Adobelajo and his accomplices did to Drummer Rigby with their knives and meat cleavers after they ran over him with their car. They struck him on the neck and cut off his fingertips.
Apologists for Islam will tell you anyone can misinterpret anything and if I believe this permits terrorism I’m distorting the Quran just as badly as those people “hijacking” the “religion of peace” (salaam means peace but Islam, one more time, means submission).
But I’m not misinterpreting anything. The dirty little secret is that there is only one Muslim’s interpretation that matters; Muhammad’s.
Surah 4:65 An-Nisa (The Women)
Surah 33:36 Al-Ahzab (The Combined Forces)
Muslims have no choice once Muhammad, the supreme expositor of the Quran since he was “Allah’s messenger, has decided a matter. It settled for all time. Any Muslim who thinks Muhammad got it wrong and thinks he can have a different opinion is no longer a believer. Such a Muslim has in fact apostatized. This is a universal rule in all the madhabs of figh whether Sunni or Shia. And all the schools of Islamic jurisprudence, Shariah, agree. Apostates are to be killed. In fact, even the dhimmis, the Christians and Jews, can kill an apostate and no one can take retribution against such a dhimmi. That’s how low on the social order an apostate is.
So, what did Muhammad say on the matter of terror?
Sahih al Bukhari volume 56, “Book of Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad),” chapter 122 “I have been made victorious…”:
Muslims who resort to terror are following Muhammad’s example. As they must; as they are required to do.
Surah 33:21 Al-Ahzab (The Combined Forces)
The Arabic makes it clear; the portion of this Ayah that says “the Messenger of Allah [is] an excellent pattern for anyone whose hope is in Allah and the Last Day” means if a Muslim wants to get into paradise they must follow the example of Muhammad in all things. If a Muslim knows what Muhammad did and doesn’t follow his example he’s going to hell. And here is Muhammad telling Muslims that terror is the path to victory when fighting in the cause of Allah.
Anyone silly enough to say that terrorism while waging violent jihad “in the cause of Allah,” or holy war, against non-believers is “un-Islamic” ought to take their stupidity all the way and say that praying five times a day or fasting during Ramadan is un-Islamic. Because the same sources that commands Muslims that it is a religious imperative to do the latter two also commands Muslims that they have a religious obligation to do the first.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/4/2016 @ 2:05 amGoo morning, DRJ. (EDT 7:25am). Regarding @242, those people were chanting to make America Mexico. I don’t think that’s free speech. I think that’s sedition. No one should be denied free speech, people preaching sedition should be arrested. I will not argue the point any further. If you insist in believing I’m against free speech go ahead. There is nothing else I can say.
Rev. Hoagie© (734193) — 6/4/2016 @ 4:31 amSteve and Hoagie well said. I have nothing more to add.
njrob (288116) — 6/4/2016 @ 10:15 amHoagie, I know you don’t want to argue the point but they weren’t preaching sedition per the two statutes that pertain to seditious language or activity.
and
18 U.S. Code § 2384 – Seditious conspiracy
18 U.S. Code § 2385 – Advocating overthrow of Government
They weren’t part of a seditious conspiracy and they weren’t preaching sedition for a couple of related reasons. They haven’t conspired to overthrow the USG by force, violence, or assissination, nor did the ever mention doing so. And there’s a very good reason for that. They’ve achieved the overthrow of the USG through the ballot box. Make no mistake the Democratic party is very much anti-American and on their side.
This is true both on the state level especially in Kali and on the national level as demonstrated by the Obama administration. But he’s merely the symptom, not the cause.
I’ve been to city council meetings where, for instance, a Korean lady plaintively asked why they were passing resolutions to give Mexican illegal aliens all these special privileges when a large number of illegal aliens are OTMs (Other Than Mexicans). A large number of those OTMs are from Asia; Chinese, Korean, etc. Yet the city council was talking as if illegal alien = Mexican.
There answer was that “this is their land.” That attitude runs all the way to the top in Kali. They all reflexively agree that they are “illegally occupying” Mexican territory.
As far as the Democrats are concerned Hispanics in general and Mexicans in particular rank above other ethic groups coming in illegally. Eastern European and Russian illegal aliens, such as those Trump hired for one of his building projects, rank at the bottom.
Remember, #BlackLivesMatter. And to say all lives matter is racist. If you buy into the false Zimmerman and Darren Wilson narratives their major crime was not letting a black criminal kill them. Instead they exercised what are to the #BlackLivesMatter/Democrats/LHMFM archaic laws written by dead white males to maintain white, cisgendered, male, xtofascist supremacy still considers lawful self defense. Which ought to be a crime.
Doubt me? Here’s Rep. Luis Gutiérrez describing the murder of Kate Steinle as a “little thing” on Telemundo.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/latino/yuri-perez/2015/07/16/rep-luis-gutierrez-calls-murder-kate-steinle-little-thing
Note the deliberate conflation of illegal entry into this country with legal immigration.
It was a little thing to a Democrat. Sanctuary cities are the embodiment of the Democratic party’s conviction that the illegal alien who killed Kate Steinle belongs here while Kate Steinle and otehr Anglos are the interlopers. That’s the Democratic party’s hierarchy of privilege. Just like when Maj. Hassan killed 13 soldiers at Fort Hood, former Army COS Gen Casey’s immediate reaction was that it would be an even greater tragedy if their diversity outreach to Muslims became a casualty. Because he understood perfectly his political masters’ hierarchy of privilege.
Recall when Tiger Beat was running for reelection and, speaking to a group of Latino actiists, he pleaded to them to “Help me punish our enemies.”
That’s what happened in San Jose. The Democratic party, in the form of the San Jose city government, and racist Latino nationalists/separatists teamed up to “punish” their mutual enemies.
So those people couldn’t possibly be committing the crime of sedition when mayor Liccardo clearly told the police to stand down so the rioters could have, in the words of Baltimore mayor Rawlings-Blake, room to destroy. And no give me any B.S. that Democrats don’t do this. That’s precisely what Mayor Quan of Oakland did when the “Occupiers” turned violent. Because that’s where her heart was. Her whole family’s as evidenced by the fact that when the Occupiers shut down the port of Oakland her husband and daughter joined in with the other criminals.
The Democrats have chosen sides and they’re on the side of the hate America first crowd. Since the anti-American rioters know this, they can’t possibly be seditious. The last thing they want to do is overthrow the USG. What they want to do is keep their allies the Democrats in charge of the USG. It’s a mutual appreciation society.
But look on the bright side, Hoagie. Donald Trump couldn’t have written a better campaign ad if he wanted to. The Democrats haven’t met an anti-American hate group they didn’t love, and it’s glaringly obvious.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/4/2016 @ 3:05 pmBring up that quote every time the ahole brings up gun control.
njrob (bdb3d4) — 6/4/2016 @ 5:50 pmHere’s an excerpt from Katie McHugh, 6/4/16, at Breitbart (emphasis added)
ropelight (596f46) — 6/5/2016 @ 7:13 amMy last sentence above in #280 is mine and should not have been included in the quote. My mistake.
ropelight (596f46) — 6/5/2016 @ 7:15 amThe SJ Police Dept. think it was necessary to assault the Trump supporters to save them.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/5/2016 @ 9:07 amropeliar is a good little cultist modeling himself on his god on whom he has a mancrush. Insane and lying through his teeth. There is no such article at Redstate. Niel Stevens has written exactly two articles this month.
http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2016/06/02/heres-happens-vote-big-star-pals-around-democrats-nevertrump/
http://www.redstate.com/neil_stevens/2016/06/03/pga-really-leaving-trump-doral-mexico-city/
Both are good. Neither says a word about Trump supporters deserve to be beaten.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/5/2016 @ 10:48 amThere were exactly two articles on Redstate about the rioters attacking the Trump supporters in San Jose. Unfortunatley for the rabid, drooling, batsh*t crazy ropeliar, neither one says the Trump supporters deserve it.
http://www.redstate.com/streiff/2016/06/03/anti-trump-morons-trying-get-donald-trump-elected-video/
http://www.redstate.com/california_yankee/2016/06/03/trump-supporters-attacked-mexican-flag-carrying-provocateurs-video/
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/5/2016 @ 10:52 amGo see for yourself. You can always tell when ropeliar is lying. It’s when he doesn’t provide links.
http://www.redstate.com/
No, wait, that’s not quite right. It’s whenever he’s commenting.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/5/2016 @ 10:55 am238. nk (dbc370) — 6/3/2016 @ 4:51 pm
No, but that Martin Luther King did (for a strategically calculated reason) on purpose, what some people are saying Donald Trump did accidentally — do something to rile up some people who predictabley unjustifiably attacked people who didn’t deserve it.
Of course MLK was dealing with established law enforcement and DT was dealing with a gang, or maybe a television network.
Sammy Finkelman (eb1481) — 6/5/2016 @ 12:01 pmropelight’s comment 281 is from Breitbart, as he said, but without a link. It’s hard to see from his comment what Stevens was saying. His point was made in a series of tweets that shows how hypocritical Trump and his supporters are about speech and violence.
Please provide links, ropelight, unless you are trying to mislead people or you think they won’t agree with you if you do.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/15/2016 @ 9:36 amTrump and McConnell are both open to more gun control after the Orlando shooting. Who needs the 2nd Amendment, right Trump supporters?
Also, Trump won’t withhold press credentials if he is elected. I guess Trump is only tough when he campaigns. Or maybe, just maybe, he only cares about winning. Is there any promise he will keep?
DRJ (15874d) — 6/15/2016 @ 9:43 amCongressional Republican leaders are going to love Trump. He’s the establishment’s man now.
DRJ (15874d) — 6/15/2016 @ 9:44 amTrump is as establishment as you can get and always has been. Just because he never has been elected to any office doesn’t change that fact. It was always more profitable in his estimation to buy people who are elected then to get elected himself. Nominating an influence buying NYC leftist was never going to be the way to “stick it to the man.”
Regarding ropelights comment @281, the Breitbart people are simply lying when the write and publish this:
I have no idea who this Niel Stevens is, nor do I know what it means to be a contributing editor at Redstate. But I do know that anyone who registers at RedState can maintain a diary and comment there. Readers who are registered there can vote, and if someone’s post gets enough votes it can be promoted to the front page. As Erik Erikson used to know when he ran the site, anyone and everyone could participate.
I’ve never had a great deal of respect for Erikson’s opinions, and RedState was nowhere near a favorite site of mine. I visit occasionally. This guy Stevens’ posts don’t seem to get promoted to the front page very often, an since I don’t have an account I don’t know if he comments in his diary very often or if he does and it’s just not very good. I’m leaning toward “not very good” based solely on the fact he’s on Twitter, and it seems to me that people who are on Twitter are under the impression people can’t get enough of what they have to say.
Erikson sold RedState a couple of years ago to Salem Communications and departed from his position as Editor in Chief a year later. I don’t believe much has changed with how the site operates. And since anyone can register for an account and comment there the moderators don’t have the time or inclination to police everyone’s twitter account.
It’s just a flat lie to claim that just because some crackpot tweets something out that the editors/moderators agree with it or even know about it. If he had said something along the lines of what he is supposed to have said on Twitter on RedState, and it got promoted to the Front Page then that would indicate people, including the editors/moderators, agreed with it. But then if he had said what he supposedly said it would have been flagged and deleted because it would have violated RedState’s terms of use against promoting violence or illegal activity.
So if he was going to say something along the lines of how Trump supporters deserve to be beaten he would have had to say in on his personal twitter account because he couldn’t get away with it at RedState.
Steve57 (e33d44) — 6/15/2016 @ 11:01 am