Patterico's Pontifications

5/31/2016

Article: “Shady accounting underpins Trump’s wealth”

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:25 am

Ben White at Politico (cached link; no links for bullies):

Donald Trump claims a net worth of more than $10 billion and an income of $557 million. But he appears to get there only by overvaluing properties and ignoring his expenses.

POLITICO spoke with more than a dozen financial experts and Trump’s fellow multimillionaires about the presumptive Republican nominee’s financial statement. Their conclusion: The real estate magnate’s bottom line — what he actually puts in his own pocket — could be much lower than he suggests. Some financial analysts said this, and a very low tax rate, is why Trump won’t release his tax returns.

. . . .

The case against Trump’s accounting of his wealth: His businesses apparently generate a lot of revenue but may not put much cash in his pocket; he assigns himself a net worth that is impossible to verify and may be based in part on fantasy; and he is selling assets and increasing debt in ways that suggest a man scrambling for ready cash.

This, of course, will change no minds, nor is my posting of it an attempt to try. His supporters will ignore it, while we skeptics already assume that any word out of the man’s mouth is a self-serving lie. Anyway, we’re not his audience. It’s the boobs who are “persuaded” by interminable repetition of lies who are his target audience. Turns out there are a lot of them. Are there enough? Time will tell.

67 Responses to “Article: “Shady accounting underpins Trump’s wealth””

  1. “Trump has a tendency to value his brand at a very high amount, but these are usually intangible valuations just pulled out of thin air,” said Steve Stanganelli, a certified financial planner at Clear View Wealth Advisors. “And he appears to be reporting gross revenue. There is a huge difference between that and net income. What really matters is what you put in the bank.”

    I find all of this so very shocking!

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  2. i got all my trumptini ingredients this weekend at jewel

    happyfeet (831175)

  3. The real estate magnate’s bottom line — what he actually puts in his own pocket

    of course what he puts in his own pocket is minimized as much as possible duh this is how everybody does it

    why do you think failmerica’s potentially first incontinent female president launders all her monies through the Clinton Global Criminal Cartel

    happyfeet (831175)

  4. of course what he puts in his own pocket is minimized as much as possible duh this is how everybody does it

    Indeed. Everyone knows you try to maximize your expenses and minimize your net profit. I personally try to put as little money in the bank and into investments as possible, because oh wait no I don’t.

    Someone who says this is how everyone does it is saying: I am a Trump shill who will say literally anything to jump into the thread early and defend Trump no matter how directly counter to every person’s experience it is.

    hi i’m happyfeet i just like to practice saying obviously untrue things like the mr. donald on account of how it works for him so mebbe it will work for a little pikachu as well

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  5. “Shady accounting underpins Trump’s wealth”

    Like taking legal advice from a hobo. Politico? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Even the Accounting guys have no idea WTF they are talking about when it comes to the big picture accounting of a big corporation. Yeah it is that complicated and many of the accounting rules are pure BS treating near identical asset/liability differently because someone says so.

    This is pure 100% BS. A private corp? ….. that big? …. that borrows money from banks to do development??? Anyone taking this seriously is not well informed.

    Rodney King's Spirit (e2dd8e)

  6. Mr Stanganelli statement also borders on the idiotic. A first year Accounting Student can make that statement about any company and be correct.

    Please folks STFU about things we know nothing (like literally nothing) about.

    Like saying Bill Gates is worth 60 billions ……. uh well sure, so long as he actually doesn’t need 60 billion cuz if he did the MSFT stock price would crater. But we still take a simple model to view his wealth and that is fine cuz he is still really wealthy regardless of the pencil sharpening, navel gazing stupidity.

    Trump no different. Properties are assets and trying to quantify the value of Intangibles is guesswork for even the best with tons of assumptions — smart folks realise it is all guesswork in its false mathematical precision. How do you assign cash flow to intangible? How do you forecast the cash flow? How do you assign expenses to it? How do you discount it?

    Yeah, Politico and some flunky with a Hofstra Degree figured it out.

    Rodney King's Spirit (e2dd8e)

  7. no Mr. P you do nut understand

    they’re talking about his personal income tax returns

    Some financial analysts said this, and a very low tax rate, is why Trump won’t release his tax returns.

    the point is it’s best for purposes of building wealth to let cash sit within different ventures than to declare it as income

    this is the exact same reason why american companies keep so much cash overseas

    U.S. Companies Are Stashing $2.1 Trillion Overseas to Avoid Taxes

    happyfeet (831175)

  8. excuse me do *not* understand i mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  9. Properties are assets (which are difficult to value due to liquidity) and intangibles near impossible.

    Rodney King's Spirit (e2dd8e)

  10. This is akin to not knowing the difference between debt and deficit….

    My wife and I are close to 7 figure net worth, but if you asked us to come up with 100K without taking on debt, well, we’d be pretty hard pressed to do so quickly. More than half of our net worth is tied up in either our house ($250k, no mortgage) or retirement assets that we can’t touch without penalty. While we’re no means cash flow poor, we can’t go and live like ‘millionaires’. We try to grow our assets while avoiding Uncle Sam’s tax wrath.

    Me (c0371d)

  11. Happyfeet, perhaps you can give me some advice.

    Yesterday my local supermarket had yellow tomatoes on sale, so I had the idea of making a golden gazpacho, using them and yellow peppers, and avoiding anything red or green (except scallions, which was probably a mistake). I haven’t tasted it yet, because it’s still sitting in the fridge to let all the goodness blend together, but visually I didn’t get the golden color I was hoping for, more of a dull greenish yellow. I thought I could fix that by adding some turmeric, but it didn’t really help. Which surprised me, because turmeric turns everything a nice yellow (and it’s good for you). Maybe you can figure out where I went wrong here.

    (Ingredients: 2 lb yellow tomatoes, 0.6 lb each of yellow peppers, peeled cucumber, and vidalia onion, 2 scallions, 3 cloves garlic, 2 Indian green chiles (the little kind that pack a strong punch, that I buy when I pass through Little Bangladesh here in Brooklyn), the heel of a loaf of bread that was lying around, 3 fl oz olive oil, 1.5 fl oz balsamic vinegar, 1 tbs salt, 1/4 tsp pepper, 1/2 tsp cumin.)

    Milhouse (87c499)

  12. Trump’s assets are most likely tied into 50 or 100 or more individual corporations. He can leave profits in the corporation without taking any personal income, if that is beneficial from a tax standpoint. People owning businesses have more options than people collecting salaries.

    If Trump is able to grow his assets while keeping his tax bill low is that not preferrable to hillary getting bribes through the clinton crime foundation and living off laundered money?

    Jim (a9b7c7)

  13. you know what i would do Mr. Milhouse is stir in some baby food carrots to bring your color back to something more vibrant and fun

    i do this with my pumpkin dip i think it was a tip i got from this nice oklahoma woman at protein wisdom

    happyfeet (831175)

  14. yes yes

    of course he is worth less that’s why no tax returns

    but we don’t care about lies

    only walls and tough speech

    making lying great again

    sadfeet (e04f50)

  15. someone linked this turmeric study recently btw, probably Mr. Instapundit

    it helps forestall dementia or something

    happyfeet (831175)

  16. Apparently low salt is not all it’s cracked up to be, in the Lancet so caveat lector.

    narciso (732bc0)

  17. What you wanted was saffron, Milhouse. Turmeric is often substituted for saffron because it’s much cheaper and more readily available but it’s not the same in either color or flavor.

    nk (dbc370)

  18. Saffron doesn’t have the flavor, sorry.

    narciso (732bc0)

  19. So this as iron clad as poltico and the basilisk’s reporting on donations.

    narciso (732bc0)

  20. I’d like to see an equal amount of interest in an investigation into the Clinton Foundation.

    Colonel Haiku (b3205b)

  21. It’s the boobs who are “persuaded” by interminable repetition of lies who are his target audience. Turns out there are a lot of them. Are there enough? Time will tell.

    In life I have found only knuckle-draggers have guns, only fools believe in some invisible God, only white people can be racist, the smartest people are leftists, only homophobes don’t want their kids exposed to gays and only those damn boobs support Trump.

    20.I’d like to see an equal amount of interest in an investigation into the Clinton Foundation.

    You and me both, Colonel. Unfortunately the supporters of Hillary are the Elite and Enlightened, not those damn, dumbass boobs.

    Rev. Hoagie© (734193)

  22. I’d like to see an equal amount of interest in an investigation into the Clinton Foundation.
    Colonel Haiku (b3205b) — 5/31/2016 @ 10:37 am

    And I’d like for every Trump idolator to refuse to vote and refuse to go online for the next 75 years.

    John Hitchcock (dbb0d8)

  23. And Hoagie just accused, by inference, Patterico of being a Leftist. It was very dishonest and dishonorable (redundancy) of Hoagie to do what he just did.

    John Hitchcock (dbb0d8)

  24. 22… I’ll chalk that one up to “white line fever”, John H.

    Colonel Haiku (b3205b)

  25. Six feet of bull comin’ though this post is full
    It’s fallin’ in stilettos its effect is void and null
    His brain is numb from hangin’ on that steering wheel
    They’re frozen tight, hope his wind
    Don’t blow him off the road tonight

    Colonel Haiku (b3205b)

  26. Rev. Hoagie, whatever our past differences, I like the cut of your jib.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  27. TEN BILLION DOLLARS!!! just sounds a lot better when you’re out to con suckers out of their lives savings.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  28. I’ll have to do some timbering post-apocalypse.

    http://www.cattlerange.com/

    I’ll need some good draft animals.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  29. The New York Times, also from over the weekend: “Rise of Donald Trump Tracks Growing Debate Over Global Fascism.” There’s even a photo of Hitler and a photo of Mussolini in the New York Times article. They never call Trump a fascist. They just claim that Trump’s campaign and that Trump’s rise to popularity is a sign of a growing global fascism. Do you think that story would ever be written about Barack Obama and any other governing world leaders today?

    Sorry John what was it? Someone called Pat a Democrat? You don’t say.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  30. I’m reading poor Crooked Hillary can’t get the type of news coverage that Donald Trump gets because Hillary opens her mouth she hemorrhages voters.

    It’s the cackle factor. Combined with the cankles and the chairman of the party pantsuit.

    She’s the wrong stuff.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  31. she’s really a repugnant person all around it’s not just how she smells

    happyfeet (831175)

  32. You see this?

    http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/05/31/donald-trump-veteran-money-presser-ath.cnn/video/playlists/donald-trump/

    He covered a wide range. The New Mexico governor. The 5.6 million for charity. Wild Bill Krystol’s stalking horse. Someone even asked him his opinion about the gorilla.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  33. Great. I get to pick between horrible and more horrible.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  34. Tarla Makaeff sued Trump to get some of her $60k back.

    Trump counter sued to shut her up.

    The 9TH Circus found in her favor. He blatantly sued her to violate the Kali anti-SLAPP statute.

    Steve57 (e33d44)

  35. Schneidermann’s one plaintiff from the Trump University case turned out to be a terrible witness for the prosecutor, received good value from her education. Couldn’t hide it.

    So that’s why Schneidermann is trolling for new plaintiffs in the Times want ads.

    I thought Craigslist killed the newspaper want ads, but maybe with perpetual Democrat government the political lawfare racket, sniffing for cretins to sue on behalf of, makes enough difference to keep the lights on.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  36. Thank you, happyfeet, that perked it right up. Next time I do this I will use no scallions, and put a carrot into the mix.

    Yes, turmeric has long been known to be good for what ails ya’. I have a friend who’s a research cardiologist, and he claims it’s not just good for the heart, which he actually knows about, but also that “If I were ever stuck on a deserted island in the South Pacific and could take only ONE medication, I’d take turmeric, It affects everything from cancer to psoriasis to wound healing to Alzheimers to malaria.”

    Narciso, salt is a problem for those who are sensitive to it, which is determined by ones genes. Those who are not sensitive to it have no reason to cut down on it. This, too, has been known for decades, but the health nazis don’t want people to know.

    Saffron costs a bit more than I care to spend right now for such a trivial purpose, but I’ll keep it in mind. Of course culturally saffron and gazpacho go together perfectly; and although I think “cultural appropriation” is a null concept, and mixing-and-matching is authentically American, still when they do go together that’s great.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  37. BING news feed is asking the question.

    Were Cincinnati Zoo officials justified in killing Harambe the gorilla?

    Yes, he might have killed that little boy 55% VOTES

    No, it wasn’t necessary 30% VOTES

    I’m not sure 14% VOTES

    If the kid had slipped into the tiger exhibit, no one would have even asked.

    It’s primate centrism.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  38. It’s teh KoKo Syndrome…

    Colonel Haiku (b3205b)

  39. I’m just mad about Saffron…

    Colonel Haiku (b3205b)

  40. But he appears to get there only by overvaluing properties and ignoring his expenses.

    So it’s almost like he has experience in government?

    malclave (4ddf38)

  41. Saffron is wanted across the sector.

    Saffron wanted poster.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  42. Jack Hanna agrees ‘1000 percent’ they had to drop that gorilla like a side of beef.

    You know what you never see? A monk sitting with his arms around two gorillas.

    Wait a minute. Dianne Fossey pulled it off. What’s up with those Buddah monks that they don’t like gorillas??

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  43. Its true that Bill Gates could not realize the nominal value of his stock holdings, because any attempt to sell such massive amounts would depress the stock price.

    But nonetheless, he is holding stock that has a market price. You can look up his stock holdings, and today’s price.

    Trump’s “wealth” valuation is far more bullshit.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  44. @ 43 ~~~ It says that Judge Sullivan ordered Hillary’s deposition transcripts be made publicly available last week.

    But then on the other channel it says, ” http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2016/05/hillary-clinton-email-scandal-judge-blocks-release-of-deposition-video/ “.

    Cackle factor biting Crooked Hillary on the bum again.

    Strange though because setting aside guilt or politics, I honestly thought Heartless Hillary’s testimony before the Benghazi committee was her high water mark. She alternated being tongue bathed and griddled seemed like all weekend, with nary a cackle.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  45. There was a lot of foliage, bushes, overgrowing the hand rail on the gorilla cage. A three year old slipping in the crack between root balls, he’s in a different world, staring down a forest tunnel.

    Of course mom couldn’t find him. Of course he didn’t answer when she called. She was on a different planet as far as he was concerned.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  46. you know who’s all buddha buddha is Patrick Duffy from Dallas

    he’s in that rarefied club of people what have more than 500 tv episodes to their credit and that’s not counting his soap stint

    you just never know who’s a buddhist (except for Patrick Duffy but that’s just cause i told you)

    happyfeet (831175)

  47. I’d like to see an equal amount of interest in an investigation into the Clinton Foundation.
    Colonel Haiku (b3205b) — 5/31/2016 @ 10:37 am

    Been there, done that.

    Pay attention.

    L.N. Smithee (b84cf6)

  48. well the world magazine piece about how trouble in river city, lagos, was allowed to escalate,
    the whole circle that involves chagoury, who is part of the mark rich circle,

    narciso (732bc0)

  49. it has charts and everything,

    http://www.worldmag.com/2016/05/troubling_ties

    narciso (732bc0)

  50. he is selling assets and increasing debt in ways that suggest a man scrambling for ready cash.

    Anyone with two brain cells in RE knows this cycle …. called growing your business using leverage.

    Borrow, develop, rent, sell, take profits into next deal … Borrow 2, develop 2, rent, sell, take more profits …. Borrow 3, develop 3, rent, sell, take even more profits ……………

    Rodney King's Spirit (e2dd8e)

  51. Normally RE and Banks, a bad sign is the Assets base in imploding, not exploding.

    Rodney King's Spirit (e2dd8e)

  52. In life I have found only knuckle-draggers have guns, only fools believe in some invisible God, only white people can be racist, the smartest people are leftists, only homophobes don’t want their kids exposed to gays and only those damn boobs support Trump.

    That’s not what I am saying, Hoagie. Only boobs are persuaded by his con artist tricks. Other people, like you, see him for what he is (well, for the most part; I think you haven’t soaked in his awfulness sufficiently) but think Hillary is worse. I have contempt for people who actually fall for Trump’s act. I simply disagree with the lesser of two evils crowd in this instance.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  53. It’s the difference between imminent and immanent. Hillary will do bad things; Trump is a bad thing.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. Mr. Trump is good at heart deep down Mr. nk.

    He’s like that movie with that character where at first you don’t sympathize with them but by the end of the movie you learn that deep down they’re really good people at heart like in Harry Potter where at the end you realize that hey maybe this Harry kid is ok after all.

    happyfeet (831175)

  55. **spoiler alert**

    happyfeet (831175)

  56. 48… Read through to the end, LN Smithee…

    “Be prepared for the shock, but it seems that no mainstream media outlet has picked up on the Clinton Foundation pay gap story and Hillary!’s attendant hypocrisy. And the urban elite media axis wonders why we need an alternate media.”

    Colonel Haiku (b3205b)

  57. He flys around in his own Boeing 757. He owns a helicopter that has gold plated ashtrays. He own luxury buildings all over the world with his name emblazoned on them.

    Does it matter if he is worth $10B or “only” $5B? He is rich. Really really rich.

    Which, among other things, means he won’t feel a need to set up a phony foundation and sell the US government to line his pockets.

    fred-2 (ce04f3)

  58. 16. narciso (732bc0) — 5/31/2016 @ 9:13 am

    Apparently low salt is not all it’s cracked up to be, in the Lancet so caveat lector.

    It’s worse than high salt.

    The New York Times reported today, in one of the short articles in the Science section (page D4) that:

    1. Current guidelines recommend a daily maximum of 2.3 grams of sodium a day for older people or those with hypertension.

    2. For people without hypertension, those consuming less than 3 grams a day had a 26% increased risk of death or cardiovascular events like heart attacks or strokes, as compared with those who consumed 4 to 5 grams a day.

    3. And more than seven grams did not increase the risk.

    4. In people with high blood pressure, consuming more than 7 grams a day of salt increased the risk by 23%

    5. But consuming less than 3 grams a day (and remember the recommended maximum is 2.3) increased the risk by 34%.

    Both as compared with consuming 4 to 5 grams a day.

    There are probably some other factors in the diet.

    The lead author says low sodium does indeed reduce blood presssure, but low sodium intake may be harmful.

    (it’s a necessary nutrient.)

    Sammy Finkelman (eb1481)

  59. That was just one of a number of interesting artivles and editorials I read today. Also:

    1. The New York Times comes out against knife control laws. (for amending the laws)

    2. Big NYT headline on how President Obama is not on course to keep his goal of admitting 10,000 Syrian refugees – it’s too hard and takes too long to pass onerous and complex background checks – President Obama has resorted to lecturing his top advisers that they must not fall short, but election year politics make it impossible to remove any of the tough vetting procedures.

    3. Front page NYT article on how the new overtime rule may get in the way of people getting dream jobs.

    4. Page A11 NYT article on how IRS officials were given a secret document by people in the OMB which they could read but not take notes on that justified spending billions ofdollars on cost sharing reduction payments for Obamacare. This is what he House of Reopp is suing over.

    5. Bret Stephens column in the Wall Street Journal on Donald Trump contradictions and conflict with reality and itself

    We are no longer interested in what our political candidates say, but rather in what they mean to say. The plain reading of words has given way to esoteric interpretation of gestures, signals symbols and intent. When Mr. Trump says things that are, on their face, nonsensical [like leave Iraq but take their oil – SF] we do not say: “This makes no sense.” We say, “Let;”s try to make sense of it.”

    William McGurn column in the Wall Street Journal on Hillary’s crooked defense

    It runs like this: Anything that isn’t criminal is permissible — and therefore none of it should be disqualifying for the Oval Ofice.

    Sammy Finkelman (eb1481)

  60. Mr. Trump is good at heart deep down Mr. nk.

    He’s like that movie with that character where at first you don’t sympathize with them but by the end of the movie you learn that deep down they’re really good people at heart like in Harry Potter where at the end you realize that hey maybe this Harry kid is ok after all.
    happyfeet (831175) — 5/31/2016 @ 7:05 pm

    We’re still in the middle of “that movie,” dumbass.

    L.N. Smithee (b84cf6)

  61. > only homophobes don’t want their kids exposed to gays

    That’s the only one on your list that I actually agree with – because the only reason you would “not want [your] kids exposed to gays” is if you believe there’s some way that being exposed to gay people would *harm* your kids.

    Which is *precisely* the definition of homophobia.

    aphrael (3f0569)

  62. He flys around in his own Boeing 757. He owns a helicopter that has gold plated ashtrays. He own luxury buildings all over the world with his name emblazoned on them.

    Does it matter if he is worth $10B or “only” $5B? He is rich. Really really rich.

    Which, among other things, means he won’t feel a need to set up a phony foundation and sell the US government to line his pockets.

    fred-2 (ce04f3) — 5/31/2016 @ 8:32 pm

    You still don’t get it, do you?

    Trump is a con artist. He’s written a bestselling book about what a con artist he is, although he doesn’t put it that way. He’s given away his “secrets” (those to which he’ll admit to using) and is still talking about how everyone still falls for the con. And people like you still wanna believe that while the Clintons are fake Robin Hoods, Trump is a real one.

    Read carefully: That’s part of the con. You’re falling for it.

    Get. It. Through. Your. Thick. Head. Trump doesn’t know how to be anything but what he’s always been. What you see is what you’re voting for. Nothing more.

    L.N. Smithee (b84cf6)

  63. That’s the only one on your list that I actually agree with – because the only reason you would “not want [your] kids exposed to gays” is if you believe there’s some way that being exposed to gay people would *harm* your kids.

    Which is *precisely* the definition of homophobia.

    aphrael (3f0569) — 6/1/2016 @ 3:36 pm

    Two words: Jesse Dirkhising.

    L.N. Smithee (b84cf6)

  64. yes yes

    the plural of anecdote is data

    errybody know dat

    happyfeet (831175)


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