Patterico's Pontifications

3/31/2016

Lewandowski “Charged” By Police, Not Prosecutors

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:44 am

I should have known better than to believe Big Media. They never know what they are talking about.

STATEMENT BY STATE ATTORNEY DAVE ARONBERG

Some media outlets have reported that this office has brought charges against Corey Lewandowski, campaign manager for Donald Trump. These reports are false. Our office has taken no action against Mr. Lewandowski. The matter was investigated and charged by the Jupiter Police Department, not this office. We will await the file from the Jupiter Police Department and make a decision on how to proceed in this matter before Mr. Lewandowski’s May 4th arraignment.

Law enforcement charges on a probable cause standard. The State has to proceed on a legally higher standard of proof, which is beyond a reasonable doubt as well as whether there is a reasonable likelihood of a conviction. At this point, our office has not received the case.

We have never said here, that I can recall (and I could be wrong), that prosecutors charged Lewandowski — we just quoted reports he had been “charged” . . . which can describe the actions of police as well as prosecutors. But I believed that court charges had ben filed, because (as the statement says) numerous outlets had said they had. For goodness’s sake, Anderson Cooper told Trump that the State’s Attorney is a Democrat at the Milwaukee town hall. Anyway, it’s important to be clear about such things, and so I am doing so here.

I also would like to reproduce a response to an email I received yesterday, asking whether I thought it was right for Lewandowski to be charged:

I speak for myself, not my office.

I think it’s a very minor incident that should not lead to jail time. Perhaps community service and a fine. But you do not get to lay hands on someone and bruise them because they’re asking your boss a challenging question. The case is a slam dunk that he did that.

The real issue here is not the minor battery, but the smearing of Fields, the lies, and the new set of lies to cover up the old lies.

I documented that last paragraph thoroughly yesterday.

I should add that if prosecutors decide not to file charges — and they may so decide — the same people saying that the prosecutors should exercise discretion will take the non-filing as TOTAL VINDICATION OF LEWANDOWSKI and PROOF THAT THE WHORE WAS LYING!!!!!11!1!!!

But you can’t stop stupidity.

This should have ended with an apology. Instead, they went after her hammer and tongs, like Clinton went after Lewinsky. When your philosophy is 115% overreaction to every single slight, whether you’re in the wrong or not, this is what you get.

And by the way? That’s also how countries end up at war. So this stuff matters.

355 Responses to “Lewandowski “Charged” By Police, Not Prosecutors”

  1. Morning, Patterico:

    When you wrote: “…asking whether I thought it was right for Fields to be charged…

    I think you mean Lewandowski?

    Anyway, what a nightmare: the situation, the candidate, and the supporters who insist it is no big deal.

    Temperament matters.

    Simon Jester (2708f4)

  2. Patterico,

    The fact you (and many) say “it should have ended with an apology” is an admission this was not a crime.

    I accept that Trump and his type are boorish in many ways.

    I reject in the absolute the use of criminal law to punish these people.

    I find those encouraging said use of the law as boorish themselves.

    Let the politics flow but when the Po-Po or the AG use laws in such a vindictive way, I have a MAJOR PROBLEM with them.

    And if I were to speculate, the AG in Palm Bech encourage the Jupiter Police to proceed.

    The AG could then “at his discretion” proceed which is a way of say “whatever way the politics blow” he would proceed.

    That is about all on my end.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  3. Just to clarify …. “I reject in the absolute the use of criminal law to punish these people for what is on that video or similar. I find those encouraging said use of the law for trivialities as those on the video as boorish themselves.”

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  4. Rodney, you still don’t get it.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  5. this is really stupid

    this rampant criminalization of petty contretemps is very dangerous and sad

    keep the faith corey

    be strong my brother

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  6. Thanks Simon, yes, wrote post in hurry, hate it when I do that.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  7. Formal rules, also known as laws, are enacted when informal rules, also known as behaving decently, fail, Mr. happyfeet. It’s something I learned in Criminology.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. #4 Bull shit. You don’t.

    I stand my ground – fact everyone says he should have just said “sorry” and not attacked the reporter is an admission there was no criminal offense.

    An offense to common sense and decency is not a crime. Being boorish is not a crime.

    That is at the heart of totalitarian PC nonsense.

    Anyone who thinks a criminal matter should have been filed based on that video and her sworn statements is simply wrong and allowing their contempt for Trump cloud all logic and reason AND DECENCY.

    You don’t expose another person to criminal charges for what happened in this case.

    You want to argue OTHER POINTS — go right ahead. I could care less and would likely agree with many.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  9. Too bad a bunch of idiots are hoping to return to the State of Nature at the exact moment they hand Donald F*cking Trump the keys to the US military apparatus.

    Nice going, idiots.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  10. I don’t understand why this is so tough to understand.

    I don’t care whether or not Michelle Fields is credible. I don’t care if Lewandowski actually committed a crime in manhandling her or not.

    Neither of those people are running for President. Trump is. And the real issue is Trump’s actions. And those actions are to lie, double down, and slander someone over a trivial question of whether or not a physical altercation occurred.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  11. i love laws just not for innocuous downwards grabbing

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  12. I wish it were not the case, but.

    In this case an apology would seem like weakness.

    It was no longer a shove or pull. It was politicized. It would be levered into further concessions. It’s the same reason Nixon said, “Mistakes were made. ” Because if you admit a politicized mistake, every journalist will say, “Are you wrong about this just like you were wrong about X?”

    luagha (0ea55b)

  13. Red Rover

    Red Rover

    Send Corey Right Over!

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  14. The real issue here is not the minor battery, but the smearing of Fields, the lies, and the new set of lies to cover up the old lies.

    Fields herself fed this incident. She falsely represented the seriousness of what happened to her when she made it public. I think too many people rushed to her defense, believing it was as violent as she first claimed. I think had these videos been released before we heard the statement of either Fields or Lewandowski, we would have heard difference stories from both of them, and there would now be a different outcome. Everything would be a lot calmer.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  15. R.I.P. Ronnie Corbett, British tv comedian

    Icy (f87b76)

  16. Basically, Fields went looking for a public apology for something that didn’t really happen as she publicly described it. Yes, Trump and his people acted like absolute jerks and I’m not a Trump supporter at all.

    But…I haven’t heard Fields say, “Oh, now that I see it I can see I perhaps overreacted, too”
    Both sides are in their corner. It shouldn’t be a crime, and it also shouldn’t be the great hope for those of us who don’t want Trump to be President, that this will finally be the thing to take him down if we just dig into it *enough*.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  17. rip, adrienne cori, she was the victim in clockwork orange, a really vicious piece of work,

    narciso (732bc0)

  18. mayBee, so your answer to the point that the actual issue is Trump’s lies is to claim that Fields lied.

    So what.

    SPQR (a3a747)

  19. keep the faith corey

    be strong my brother

    Well he was pretty strong when he bruised Fields. But I forgot that hurting innocent women is okay in your book.

    Anyway, I think he should be charged and tried for what he did. It may not be the biggest deal in the world, but he physically injured an innocent woman, and continues to deny it and show a lack of remorse. He gets away with this, he will continue to do it, and next time a woman or even a man will fall and break an arm or have a concussion.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (ddead1)

  20. Basically, Fields went looking for a public apology for something that didn’t really happen as she publicly described it. Yes, Trump and his people acted like absolute jerks and I’m not a Trump supporter at all.

    Except the video shows it did happen as she publicly described it. She was pulled backwards and that could be feeling like almost falling. Her story hasn’t changed.

    Patrick Henry, the 2nd (ddead1)

  21. The case is a loser and won’t be filed, even if the prosecutor is a Hillary supporter.

    AZ Bob (d6a3a9)

  22. This is one case where its appropriate for the judge to give the defendant a slap on the wrist.

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  23. someone is being eminently sensible

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  24. @18 PH2nd

    If Corey goes to jail he’s going to come out much stronger and his next victim’s book tour might not be so lucky.

    pinandpuller (c16705)

  25. Except the video shows it did happen as she publicly described it. She was pulled backwards and that could be feeling like almost falling. Her story hasn’t changed.

    No her story hasn’t changed. It should because the video doesn’t show the violence she described.
    Maybe she felt like she was almost falling. But we can see nobody almost threw her to the ground. I can’t believe anyone who stood by her when she described what happened pictured something as benign as what actually happened.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  26. There is a limited remedy available in law for “malicious prosecution”.

    Michelle Fields should listen to the prosecutor if he advises nolle prossing the case. An acquittal of Lewandowski on the merits would leave her open to a suit for malicious prosecution; a voluntary nolle prosse should not.

    nk (dbc370)

  27. I will add that by standing up for his guy, Trump is sending a pretty obvious signal.

    If you’re his guy, he’ll stand up for you too.

    If you believe him when he says America is his guy, then you believe he’ll stand up for America too. Unlike a certain current president we could name.

    If he didn’t stand up for his guy, they’d be picked off in minor events like this until he was all alone.

    luagha (0ea55b)

  28. It’s a slam dunk that he knowingly touched her on the part of the body she claimed, with the force she claimed, and that he did so intentionally? As opposed to having brushed against her with the same non-existent force that she touched Trump’s sleeve, not even knowing or remembering whether he touched her or anybody?

    Sorry, you’ve lost all credibility with me, and I hate Trump.

    Average Joe (df82bb)

  29. Does anyone else remember reading “The Rape of a Lock” by Percy Bysshie Shelley?

    pinandpuller (a12946)

  30. Spoiler Alert!

    It has nothing to do with one woman’s neurotic journey from Jacksonville to Jupiter.

    pinandpuller (c16705)

  31. Here’s an excerpt from Charles C Johnson:

    Michelle Fields’s mother, Xiomara, is a Honduran-born activist who opposed Donald Trump long before her daughter’s alleged incident.

    The elder Fields runs a nonprofit for illegal immigrants in Los Angeles that receives a substantial portion of its funding from the U.S. and California tax payers.

    A 2014 posting on a forum for the Honduran consulate in Los Angeles accuses Fields’s mother of cheating illegal immigrants.

    We reached out to both Fields and will update this post when we hear something back.

    Michelle Fields clearly has a conflict of interest regarding Trump.

    ropelight (86a284)

  32. Why does that excuse Trump’s lies, ropelight?

    SPQR (8bad86)

  33. The old school sex scandal snare set for vulnerable men was called “the honey pot”.

    Michelle Fields’ newly baited style of “journalism” should be called “the glue trap”.

    She reminds me of the Korean on MASH who would jump in front of Jeeps.

    pinandpuller (c16705)

  34. Lies? what lies?

    ropelight (86a284)

  35. @30
    Ropelight

    Can’t remember if its been discussed but Fields accused CCJ of hacking her computer.

    pinandpuller (c16705)

  36. ropelight, that attitude of wilful blindness typifies Trump supporters.

    SPQR (8bad86)

  37. Ropelight

    I’d love to see MF jump out of the bushes and interview Kanye in her next iteration as a reporter for TMZ.

    pinandpuller (a12946)

  38. SPQR, what are the Trump lies you accuse me of willfully ignoring?

    ropelight (86a284)

  39. she did her profession a disservice with her snowflakey caterwaulings but she was goaded into some of this by the macaca press boy

    still though how she handled the situation was really a lot immature

    i hope she reflects on this and has a series of epiphanies to where she becomes a more better person

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  40. at the very least baby girl should have an epiphany or two ready in her back pocket at her next job interview

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  41. Michelle will climb to the top one handhold at a time, like Gollum

    She will throw her epiphanies in the air like Mary Tyler Moore.

    pinandpuller (0845e7)

  42. This post is mildly off topic but I don’t know where else to write it that would be more useful.

    My thinking is that we are possibly in the last few quiet weeks before all Hell breaks loose.

    The GOP convention will be in Cleveland July 18-21. It will be blistering hot and people in general will be in a bad mood. And no matter what happens inside the convention center there will be masses of angry maddened people.

    If Trump wins, if Cruz wins, if Kasich wins, if some knight in shining armor wins, it won’t matter. No one will be able to even pretend to “unite” the Republican Party. Too much bad blood, too many petty slams, too many scores to settle.

    Four days after the GOP Convention closes. the Democratic Convention opens in Philadelphia. I see no indication that that will be a love fest either with those Feeling the Bern loathe to support Hillary Clinton. If Hillary is unable to clinch the nomination ahead of time, an all out war over SuperDelegates may occur.

    I see powder kegs all around and just about anything will set them off. If, God forbid, a major terrorist attack takes place who knows what carnage may ensue.

    mark johnson (05e538)

  43. Our host wrote,

    I think it’s a very minor incident that should not lead to jail time. Perhaps community service and a fine. But you do not get to lay hands on someone and bruise them because they’re asking your boss a challenging question. The case is a slam dunk that he did that.

    The real issue here is not the minor battery, but the smearing of Fields, the lies, and the new set of lies to cover up the old lies.

    Succinct and spot on. Had there been even a whiff of an apology, the complaining witness almost certainly wouldn’t have filed her complaint, and indeed, even if the Trump camp had said nothing, she might very well have let this drop. So from a “cosmic justice standpoint,” I won’t be enraged, or even mildly perturbed, if the charge ends up being dismissed, or if Lewandowski ends up being acquitted. In courts of law, he’s entitled to his presumption of innocence, and that presumption may never end up being overcome.

    But in the court of public opinion, Lewandowski is guilty in the eyes of everyone who looks at the video & audio evidence, even without supporting sworn testimony from Fields and other witnesses. He’s guilty of a minor assault and a major lying campaign. And his employer, as his enabler and co-conspirator in the cover-up, lies, and smears, is likewise guilty in the court of public opinion.

    You Trumpkins can fume and fuss and smear and slur and wiggle. None of that changes a single frame of that video. None of that excuses Lewandowski’s and Trump’s lies. Outside the Trumpkin echo chamber, the rest of the country has already figured this out.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  44. What percentage of Trump supporters are disaffected Republicans, Independents, and Democrats who typically don’t vote? If there are many of them, will it really be hard to unify Republicans behind someone other than Trump?

    DRJ (15874d)

  45. “Lewandowski is guilty in the eyes of everyone who looks at the video & audio evidence”

    No he isn’t.

    mark johnson (06fe60)

  46. “Had there been even a whiff of an apology, the complaining witness almost certainly wouldn’t have filed her complaint, ”

    Absolutely not. An apology is an admission of guilt, and used as a lever for further demands.
    It’s the classic Social Justice Warrior tactic.

    luagha (e5bf64)

  47. @ DRJ (#43): I have a great deal more confidence that Cruz could unify the GOP — including independents and disaffected members of both parties — if he can indeed get the nomination, even after a bitter contest at the convention. As of now, far more potential Republican voters in November are opposed to Trump than affirmatively support Cruz. But when and if Cruz denies Trump the nomination, he will thereby instantly become the savior of the nation in the eyes of everyone who recognizes Trump as a dangerous con-man. Beating Trump for the nomination will create a very, very powerful narrative for Ted Cruz in the general, which is why I’ve always thought that Cruz could win a genuine mandate election that also buoys GOP numbers in Congress.

    The primary campaign, by definition, is the crucible out of which is formed the general election candidate. Hillary is going to be a heavily compromised candidate who’s actively resented by all of the Bernie fans because she’s going to win her nomination on the basis of superdelegate support by the Dem Party establishment. Not many Democrats are going to feel like Hillary has “saved” their party from Bernie (although rational arguments can be made that she’s doing exactly that). By contrast, when and if Cruz can knock Trump out, he will provoke genuine relief among everyone who’s been watching Trump’s progress with gritted teeth and frustrated disapproval.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  48. @ luagha (#45), who wrote, “An apology is an admission of guilt, and used as a lever for further demands.”

    You’re desperately confused. Ms. Fields worked for Breitbart.com, Trump’s favorite media outlet, and Trump himself was her second-favorite GOP candidate — i.e., she was a supporter. She’s not a social justice worker or some quisling Democrat trying to set up a civil lawsuit.

    An apology is something that decent people do. And everyone has some occasion to apologize. Accordingly, someone who never apologizes is, by definition, indecent.

    If you think it’s impossible to apologize without conceding some sort of major wrongdoing, you’re just dim-witted.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  49. Had there been even a whiff of an apology, the complaining witness almost certainly wouldn’t have filed her complaint, and indeed, even if the Trump camp had said nothing, she might very well have let this drop.

    On what basis do people keep saying this?
    She wrote about it publicly and in a really inflammatory manner before they said anything, didn’t she? She told the WaPo her version of the story and told him he could write about it that night.
    That’s fine, but the version she put out there was not what we see on the tape. Did she give them a chance to explain or apologize for what really did happen?
    I don’t know if she would have filed her complaint- her fiancé says she filed it within 48 hours of the incident.

    And I am very very far from a Trumpkin. Doesn’t saying what you said in that line indicate that this episode is all about taking sides, and not discussing what actually happened? That this episode in which nobody- Fields included- covered themselves in glory is being amplified in the hopes of getting other people to see Trump is a big fat liar?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  50. @ mayBee: No, you’ve got your facts and their sequence badly wrong. Do some homework and try again.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  51. We are so very seeing eye to eye, haps.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  52. Thanks for the respectful discussion, Beldar!

    mayBee (b709ed)

  53. DT: I am King of the Nas Ghouls. No journalist may kill my candidacy.

    MF: I am no journalist. And if those eagles think they’re going to grab my arm and move me to the top of Mt Doom they’ve got another thing coming.

    pinandpuller (a12946)

  54. @ mark johnson: Read the statute. Look at the video. Our host is exactly right: It’s a slam-dunk, because every element of the crime is established by the video. If you think otherwise, you either have not read the statute, or you haven’t looked at the video, or you’re just lying to yourself.

    Trumpkins keep insisting on re-writing the statute. They want there to be a “major bodily harm” requirement, or some other legal requirement that’s much higher than the statute actually contains, but which fits with their conception of why these cases aren’t brought every time the statutory definition of battery has been satisfied.

    That’s sloppy thinking. It’s wrong, even if it’s sincere.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  55. Maybee,

    Fields told Megyn Kelly that she wanted an apology and understood it would be forthciming, which is why she waited to file a complaint.

    Mother Jones posted a timeline. I can’t vouch for everything in it but maybe it will help.

    DRJ (15874d)

  56. @ mayBee, you’ve got so many facts wrong in your comment (#48) that I’m unwilling to take the time to correct them, or you. If that leaves you feeling disrespected, then again: Do some homework, either prove your assertions or (inevitably) amend them, and then we can talk.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  57. it’s one word, they are the hooded shreaking dragon riders from tolkien, the highest or lowest form of troll, ie: perry

    narciso (732bc0)

  58. If you think it’s impossible to apologize without conceding some sort of major wrongdoing, you’re just dim-witted.

    So laugha can’t just be wrong, he must be dim-witted, Beldar? Is this constant need to say something personally disparaging going to continue after the general election? Or is this only while Trump is running then we can go back to being civil to one another?

    Imam Hoagie ™ (e4fcd6)

  59. Fair enough, Hoagie. If one thinks it’s impossible to apologize without conceding some sort of major wrongdoing, then one is dimwitted.

    Better?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  60. Ok, I’ve done my homework Patterico

    What so many facts do I have wrong?
    As far as I can tell, she wrote about it publicly before the Trump camp said anything publicly

    am i wrong?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  61. SPQR writes … ” And the real issue is Trump’s actions. “

    Not for a Court of Law in a Criminal proceeding. Not for the Jupiter Police who should know better. Talk about missing the point. Sure, let us expose CL to criminal court b/c of what Trump said that was boorish. Or the fact CL lied about his contact with Fields. OK. Sounds like the PC Police has invaded the heart of a conservative (or so they say).

    Patterico writes … I think it’s a very minor incident that should not lead to jail time. Perhaps community service and a fine. But you do not get to lay hands on someone and bruise them because they’re asking your boss a challenging question. The case is a slam dunk that he did that.

    So minor an apology would do. So where is the crime? Grabbing someone for a split second is a crime? What about Fields touching Trump without his consent? Sounds criminal.

    Javert has nothing on you lawyer types. You have all lost your minds. You should take residence at 42nd and Seventh and arrest people pushing, grabbing and shoving to get off a Subway Car and in too. Who knew we would criminalize minor contact getting into, and out o,f crowded spaces.

    …but this is not criminalizing politics ……

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  62. If one said, “This event took placed in California,” then one would be wrong. mayBee, for example, thinks Michelle Fields went public on the night of the incident with her complaints. She’s wrong — merely wrong — in that assertion. (She’s sort of close, though, because a WaPo reporter observed the event himself, and he did indeed ask her seconds afterwards — as revealed by an audio recording — if he could report on it. Fields answering “yes” to that question isn’t the same as Fields making some sort of public complaint that night, which mayBee also seems to be confused about.

    This long after the event, I’ve little patience re-educating the confused and mistaken. But that doesn’t mean they’re dim-witted or arguing in bad faith.

    However: If one says, “Apologies are always inappropriate, because an apology is an admission of guilt, and is always used as a lever for further demands,” then one is both wrong and dim-witted. Also: very rude.

    Apologizing is hard to do well, I concede. But it’s something that grownups tend to manage on their own. Certainly when you’re a multi-billionaire with lawyers and PR flacks at your beck and call, you have plenty of talent to help you apologize well, but not in a way that confesses to or concedes anything beyond that which directly deserves apologizing for. In this case, that list includes the original contact, plus the lies told (“I’ve never even met you”) and insults made (“you’re delusional”) and smear (she has a pattern of doing this as an attention-seeker). The list gets longer every damned day as Lewandowski and his kennel-master, Trump, continue to double down.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  63. yes yes mb!

    i just can’t put myself in her shoes

    his either really but if as a society we’re not ever gonna use the phrase like water off a duck’s back why do we have it

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  64. A new theorem to test out for the Perpetually Outraged Trump Legal Eagles …..

    If a simple apology would do, it is not a criminal offense.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  65. R.I.P. Ronnie Corbett, British tv comedian

    Damn. When Barker died, Corbett continued as The One Ronnie. Someone ought to do a tribute act and call it The No Ronnies.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  66. Frappé coffee is a Greek foam-covered iced coffee drink made from instant coffee. Accidentally invented by a Nescafe representative in 1957 in the city of Thessaloniki, it is now the most popular coffee among Greek youth and foreign tourists.

    they have this at kanela breakfast club

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  67. RKS, that’s just BS. This was not a subway car. This was not elbows bumping into one another.

    This was a large man grabbing a much smaller woman by the harm while both were in motion, and then jerking her back and down hard enough to suddenly propel her in an altogether different direction, with a grip hard enough to leave bruises. I spent the summer of 1980 working at a job for which I had to take the NYC subway during rush hour from 116th and Riverside all the way down to Broad Street on the south tip of Manhattan, and then back again at night. Not once did another passenger bruise me, much less yanking me nearly off my feet and suddenly propelled me in a different direction than I’d been moving.

    I know you think this was too trivial for the law to pay attention to. If you were on Corey Lewandowski’s jury, you could certainly engage in jury nullification to try to make that point. But you’re wrong about the law.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  68. Not true, RKS. I was in a wreck where the other driver was at fault. He also committed a crime that was more than a traffic violation. I wanted an apology in lieu of prosecuting him because he was young and I didn’t want him to have a record, but he wouldn’t. He has a record now because he was arrogant.

    DRJ (15874d)

  69. A simple apology wouldn’t have retroactively eliminated Lewandowski’s battery. But it would have ended the affair, because it would have resulted in the complaining witness withholding (or even now, withdrawing) her criminal complaint.

    There’s no inconsistency here by the “legal eagles.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  70. a couple weeks ago this girl threw up on me on the train

    it was the worst thing that ever happened to me my whole life

    i saw her and i knew what she was gonna do but i just had nowhere to go

    it was goddamn horror show

    she was very sweet she said she was sorry and got off at the next stop and enthusiastically puked some more on the platform

    but it was so awful cause of it had a distinct odor

    i feel though like I’m safe now

    that this is not something that can ever happen to me again

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  71. *a* goddamn horror show i mean

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  72. thinks Michelle Fields went public on the night of the incident with her complaints. She’s wrong — merely wrong — in that assertion.

    No I don’t, and I didn’t say she did.
    I said that she told the WaPo writer he could go public that night, and she went public before they publicly said anything. Those are both true statements. I thought maybe I was wrong and that Lewandowski started denying it publicly on Wednesday before she wrote about it Thursday. But all I can find is he responded after her assertions.

    I didn’t say apologies are always inappropriate.
    But I would say you seem to have rude covered pretty well today.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  73. Is that one or two thessaloniki?

    Somebody shut that bloody bazuki up.

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  74. A train should be a safe space like a great white concert.

    pinandpuller (0845e7)

  75. I made it clear in my first post that this is a public, politicized issue.
    That is where apologies are dangerous/wrong.

    Had Michelle Fields contacted them privately to ask for a personal non-public apology, things might have been different. But I checked the Mother Jones timeline, and she did not. She posted publicly, through Breitbart and with the other reporter, with the statement about ‘almost being thrown to the ground.’

    Why does President Bush never apologize for going into Iraq after WMDs? Never admit he was wrong? (Aside from the fact that he wasn’t, as recent reporting on how the CIA was buying lots of chemical weapons to destroy on the sly and has been for a good long time.) Because it would have been used as a lever for further attacks. And so on. Again, I wish it wasn’t the case, I wish we lived in a different world. But in that different world Michelle Fields would have called Corey Lewandowski personally, said she got a bruise on her arm from the pull, and maybe things would have happened differently.

    luagha (e5bf64)

  76. Rodney, what a completely bizarre way to miss the point.

    SPQR (4ef6c9)

  77. DRJ- yes, that’s the timeline as I understand it.

    I say if she wanted an apology she should not have accused him of something he didn’t do (almost throw her to the ground). Now, I don’t know if they ever would have apologized because Trump is a blowhard and CL probably is too.
    But of course they were going to deny what she first accused them of, because as we can all see it didn’t happen that way.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  78. I say if she wanted an apology she should not have accused him of something he didn’t do (almost throw her to the ground).

    He did do it. She told the exact truth. If he’d apologised instead of denyin it and smearing her she wouldn’t have made a criminal complaint. But make no mistake, what he did was a crime, and he is clearly guilty. There is no question at all of that, and prosecution is absolutely warranted. Patterico may be right that jail time is not warranted, and perhaps it won’t be sought. But a criminal conviction is warranted, and Trump must fire him and apologise, the sooner the better.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  79. But in that different world Michelle Fields would have called Corey Lewandowski personally, said she got a bruise on her arm from the pull, and maybe things would have happened differently.

    Yes. This.

    If what you really want is an apology, what you recommend is what happens. She could even have written “As I approached Donald Trump to ask a question, his campaign manager pulled me away forcefully. It hurt, and it actually left a bruise. I am awaiting an explanation or an apology from the Trump campaign”
    If what you really want is a vortex of drama, you do what happened here.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  80. I seem to have trouble linking on mobile, but I invite readers to look up “The Siege of Frank Sinatra”.

    He was in Melbourne, AU and referred to female journalists as buck and a half hookers.

    All the union people in the country refused to wait on him untill he apologised. He was trapped in a hotel with no prospect of making it out of the country until demands were satisfied. Very interesting.

    pinandpuller (0845e7)

  81. @ laugha (#75): Get your facts straight. Fields did speak, very shortly after the event, with a Trump staffer who took Fields’ cellphone number and led Fields to believe that an apology was forthcoming.

    She didn’t write her own account of the incident on Breitbart.com until two days later. But the abuse and lies from Lewandowski started immediately, on that same night (March 8th), in response to tweets from the WaPo reporter who witnessed the event. Before Fields had even spoken publicly about the event, Lewandowski was already tweeting that Fields was “delusional” and Trump was denying that the event had ever happened.

    Regarding the “being thrown to the ground” canard, I’ve addressed that nonsense at length already in a comment on another post.

    Such strong opinions here today from the comprehensively uninformed!

    Beldar (fa637a)

  82. If a simple apology would do, it is not a criminal offense.

    That is a ridiculous proposition. So is the idea that if jail time isn’t warranted then it’s not a crime.

    Grabbing someone for a split second is a crime?

    Yes, it is.

    What about Fields touching Trump without his consent? Sounds criminal.

    Another Trump lie. Perhaps the worst, because he has personal knowledge that it’s a lie. He was there, and knows it didn’t happen, but he deliberately chose to smear her. That’s despicable.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  83. He tried to forcefully throw her to the ground? You see that in the tape, Millhouse?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  84. mayBee, read this about the “throw[ing] to the ground.” You’re mistaken — again.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  85. Mr. Milhouse let’s do the breathing exercises

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  86. Actually Lewandowski’s first response was to apologise. But for the wrong thing. He apologised for not recognising her, as if it was OK to do it to someone else. When he realised that he was just digging his hole deeper he switched to denying it ever happened, perhaps not realising there were recordings.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  87. Beldar- Neither Patterico’s post nor the timeline DRJ linked to mentions Lewandowski’s texts on Wednesday before she wrote.

    As I said, they may exists and I asked you for information about them earlier, but I’ve yet to see them linked.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  88. I don’t need to read your wall of text, Beldar. I’m reading Michelle Field’s own words that she wrote on Thursday morning.

    What do you think you are disputing?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  89. mayBee, Beldar has refuted your mistaken claim in detail; if you refuse to read it in order to inform yourself of your error then you are showing reckless indifference to the truth, which under the standard of NYT v Sullivan counts as “actual malice”.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  90. randy ted cruz is a pervert who likes trannys(black) d.c. madam’s lawyer says.

    teddy the perv (55f11c)

  91. What is my mistaken claim?

    I see Beldar trying to interpret what she said, but of course he has his opinion and is trying, like a good lawyer, to put his meaning onto her words.
    But without Beldar running interference, her words left a clear impression. Why in the world would she bring up that a campaign manager shouldn’t try to throw someone to the ground in the same column in which she claims she was practically thrown to the ground, unless she wants to leave the impression that he tried to throw her to the ground?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  92. It is a fact that he grabbed her in a manner that would have thrown her to the ground had she not managed to maintain her balance.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  93. #77 No SPQR, I completely get both sides.

    My only point is this is not an action which raises to the level of a crime.

    15 views and reviews of the video show nothing remarkable in any fashion.

    Happens on the NYC Subway about 100,000 times per day during rush hour.

    Again, if an apology would do …. no need for a criminal investigation or a po-po report.

    Frankly, only a lawyer could be so confused — that or an Advanced Graduate Degree in some other Liberal Art.

    No wonder this Country is failing, We seek conflict when none should exist on petty nonsense.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  94. It is a fact that he grabbed her in a manner that would have thrown her to the ground had she not managed to maintain her balance.

    But is it a fact that he grabbed her in a manner that disrupted her balance? Or attempted to disrupt her balance? Obviously, everyone falls if they can’t maintain their balance, whether someone touches them or not.

    Are people here honestly saying when they heard her description of what happened, they pictured what the video shows?
    That they didn’t picture a little more?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  95. randy ted cruz needs tranny sex to be nicer!

    teddy the perv (55f11c)

  96. #93 And if grandma had balls, she’d be grandpa. Plus what you call facts are not.

    How do you know the manner he grabbed her should have cause her to fall??????? Maybe she kept her balance b/c their was no reason for her to lose it? Also, how is it possible to suffer such a huge “blow” and with very high heels maintain her balance? If so violent, then how did that happen? Also, if the blow was so severe why did she not seek to extend her arms to catch her balance. Or jerk her arm with phone in hand towards her in some fashion? Did her head even move in any erratic way? Body? Did she flail in any way? We can’t even prove the bruise was from Lewandowski.

    Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  97. Lawyers parsing words is why this Country is sucking so bad. They torture the meaning until it has none.

    Folks, she never once came close to falling anywhere. She lied from the get go or is delusional.

    Fact CL and Trump are troglodytes notwithstanding …..

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  98. Is Teddy the Perv = Happyfeet fantasizing Cruz going bareback on him (again)?

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  99. that is unappropriate

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  100. When you admit you won’t read what I’ve written — after you’ve asked me for specifics, and I gave you a link — then you aren’t engaging in good-faith discussion, mayBee. This ends out conversation.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  101. *our conversation

    Beldar (fa637a)

  102. what is the conservative family values on tranny sex with a prostitute?

    teddy the perv (55f11c)

  103. #10 But true.

    Homosexuals with libertarian leanings struggle with religious people and frequently fantasize about them. As if “taking or having” them will somehow stop the Religion from condemning what they do in your bedroom or on those nasty parades in the Village or the Castro.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  104. RKS, she never claimed that she had fallen or been on the ground. You call it “torturing words.” I call it “reading them.”

    You haven’t, or won’t. That makes it a waste of time to argue with you.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  105. #100

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  106. Beldar, you are being mendacious. We all heard what she said and read what she wrote.

    Typical scum bag lawyer parsing of the words to take away meaning.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  107. Once again:
    784.03 Battery; felony battery.—
    (1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:
    1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
    2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.
    (b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    Lewandowski doesn’t have to pull her to the ground. He doesn’t have to cause her to lose her balance. He doesn’t have to cause grave physical harm, or even any physical harm.

    All he has to do is touch her against her will, and that is what makes it misdemeanor battery.
    And by an amazing coincidence, that’s the charge.

    It’s not much of a crime, I’ll concede, but all the Trump side had to do was apologize to make it go away. And they didn’t. No, they’re much too much winner alphas, much too smart for everyone else. So now, they’re going to fight it all the way, and grind Fields into the dust. And they will. And if they lose the nomination over it, that’ll be fine with them.

    Evan3457 (057459)

  108. Reading Beldar (who I guess is a lawyer) it comes as no surprise to me how our Constitution has been perverted to take on meaning it never had.

    Michele FIelds comments are a “living document” to be reinterpreted as the reader wishes to justify whatever he wants.

    but before he could answer I was jolted backwards. Someone had grabbed me tightly by the arm and yanked me down. I almost fell to the ground, but was able to maintain my balance.

    She was never jolted. She never almost fell. She barely moved.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  109. #108 As I said, if you take that definition, please start arresting commuters coming off Manhattan trains.

    Arrest all police who have touched someone.

    Takes a Lawyer to be this stupid. Or simple mendacity.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  110. And I certainly don’t continue conversations with someone who calls me a “scum bag lawyer,” RKS. This will be our last exchange.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  111. I read it,Beldar.
    I said I didn’t need it. It didn’t really add anything but your interpretation of her words.

    If you want to stop talking with me, great, because you’ve been tremendously insulting.
    But you have not yet given me links to the Trump camp making public statements before Michelle Fields went public.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  112. Sounds like a much more reasonable scenario
    Jupiter PD sending it up the ladder and Lewandowski keeping his hands to himself from now on.

    Its a fact that she maintained her balance. She needs to learn how to flop like this guy:
    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Arjen+Robben+Best+Dives&&view=detail&mid=9F33313F351535A780EC9F33313F351535A780EC&rvsmid=B9A786347FE7C945EA8BB9A786347FE7C945EA8B&FORM=VDQVAP&fsscr=0

    steveg (fed1c9)

  113. “All he has to do is touch her against her will, and that is what makes it misdemeanor battery.”

    No. He also has to do it “intentionally.” The video doesn’t show that. Brushing against someone in a crowd doesn’t count, sorry. But what the video DOES show (and other pictures) is that Fields intentionally touched Trump on the sleeve. Maybe to get his attention, but so what. The reason doesn’t matter. He did not give consent.

    Average Joe (df82bb)

  114. I’ll add Beldar you have been tremendously insulting while being wrong about what I’ve written.
    But still feel free to point me to the tweets from that Wednesday. On that, I actually did ask for your assistance.
    Maybe you can’t find them.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  115. Mr. B please to not put that “not in good faith” label on mayBee it is unappropriate number one number two she’s been a good faith commenter for many many moons – y’all just disagree on this is all

    and you know what it’s ok for people to disagree on stuff for example the minimum wage, mars colonies, and how thickly people should be doing the pork belly slices personally I think it should mostly just be for flavor i don’t need huge chunks

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  116. But is it a fact that he grabbed her in a manner that disrupted her balance?

    Yeah, you can see her stumble and then regain balance.

    Obviously, everyone falls if they can’t maintain their balance, whether someone touches them or not.

    And obviously if you grab a person who is walking so hard you stop their movement completely, your grip with both arms leaving a few bruises, and they think they are going to fall for a second, they don’t owe you much deference.

    Dustin (2a8be7)

  117. Happens on the NYC Subway about 100,000 times per day during rush hour.

    No, it doesn’t.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  118. Dustin- do you think he practically threw her to the ground?

    When you see the video, do you see what you expected to see, based on her description?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  119. Let me ask another question: Do you think he tried to throw her to the ground? Do you think he intended to throw her to the ground? Or do you think he grabbed her to pull her away, and grabbed her too hard?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  120. I don’t know how things work in the white collar world, but in blue collar land you report any accident or incident to your supervisor right away. Then you go to an urgent care for evaluation, treatment and documentation. Sometimes even a drug test.

    If you bump someone at a red light you take a bunch of pictures and try to get a cop to come out so damage doesn’t magically appear.

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  121. maybee ask all the questions you want.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  122. What is the timestamp on the tape where we see her stumble?

    mayBee (b709ed)

  123. In my comment above at #81, I wrote:

    But the abuse and lies from Lewandowski started immediately, on that same night (March 8th), in response to tweets from the WaPo reporter who witnessed the event. Before Fields had even spoken publicly about the event, Lewandowski was already tweeting that Fields was “delusional” and Trump was denying that the event had ever happened.

    I was writing in haste, from memory, and I erred in this particular in this comment. There was indeed a lot of discussion on twitter and in the blogosphere that had been prompted by the WaPo reporter’s tweet immediately after the incident on March 8th. But Lewandowski’s particular tweet in which he claimed that Fields was “delusional” and that he had never touched her was indeed published immediately after her Breitbart.com post on March 10th.

    But I don’t think my error matters: What I was mis-remembering was the series of conflicting stories that came out of the Trump campaign between the incident on March 8 and Michelle Field’s Breitbart.com post on March 10. That was the period during which she was still waiting, hoping, for an apology, but when she was under criticism for not having filed a police report. It was already clear — before Fields wrote on March 10th — that Lewandowski and Trump were lying and spinning and trying to destroy her career. Indeed, their pressure was causing Breitbart.com’s executives to waffle and hunker down. Lewandowski and the entire Trump campaign certainly knew, well before she wrote her Breitbart.com piece on March 10th, that they had something to apologize for, but they didn’t, and they still haven’t.

    Michelle Fields has never claimed or written that she was thrown to the ground. She has been utterly consistent every time she has described what happened to her. The one sentence in question — the sole basis for Trump, Trumpkins, and Trumpkin shills to claim that Fields claimed to have been thrown to the ground — was in a hypothetical description of what campaign managers should and shouldn’t do, not in a claim of what happened to her. The very same document shows what happened to her. And even if she had made inconsistent statements, it wouldn’t matter: We know from the video what happened. And what the video shows is entirely consistent with the way she has uniformly described what actually happened to her, from the recorded discussion with the WaPo reporter immediately after the event through today.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  124. good thing none of us ever do the hunker down like them breitbarts

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  125. Thanks Simon, yes, wrote post in hurry, hate it when I do that.
    Patterico (86c8ed) — 3/31/2016 @ 8:05 am

    I just wonder if you had more time to consider your written post than Mr. Lewandowski had to consider his actions and their consequences at the time. Clearly, you both made mistakes. Unfortunately, as you realize, few are so perfect that they always do the right thing in every spur of the moment.

    Steve (80dbfe)

  126. I have a huge contusion on my arm as we writing. Someone hit me while I was driving to the basket. I did not expect it nor was it warranted. I perfectly fine, but still, I want to file a police report. It hurts so much.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  127. Thank you, Beldar.

    But I don’t think my error matters:

    That’s where we disagree. I think it is very important- if we are to believe all she wanted was an apology- that she went out first with her inaccurate and over dramatic description of what happened. Now, I know we don’t like CL, but I think it’s perfectly fair that he did not recognize his own actions in her accounting. And he wasn’t going to apologize for what he considered to be a lie.

    Michelle Fields has never claimed or written that she was thrown to the ground
    If someone in this thread has said she wrote that, I haven’t seen it.

    The video is not consistent with what she described. It is much more tame. Which isn’t to say it was ok for him to grab her. But we all know people well enough to know that they sometimes don’t give the most fair description of what happened when they think they have been wronged.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  128. It almost knocked me over but I have superior balance. But I have a bruise to prove it. It hurts. They are not allowed to do that either.

    911?

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  129. My arm hurts. Someone hit it playing Basketball at the YMCA. It was lunch time ball. I have witnesses. I almost fell too! And no one apologized to me either. In fact, had I not called FOUL I would have let the crime go un-noticed.

    Can I call in the crime to the Po-Po? Will they take me seriously?

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  130. Can I twitter pic my bruise to compare to Michelle to see who has it worstisstssss?

    It so hurts. No one apologized. They saw it happen. I have witnesses.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  131. Former Breitbart News reporter Michelle Fields said Wednesday that she was forced to temporarily move out of her D.C.-area apartment after Fox News and BuzzFeed accidentally published her address online.

    Ms. Fields told The Blaze that she no longer felt safe staying at her apartment and had to move out for now.

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  132. I have seen Ron Artest and Andrew Bynum clothes-line two Dallas Mavericks at the Staples Center. Has anyone from LA County pressed charges? It was on National TV.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Sorry Ron is now Metta World Peace. A funny joke about radical islam is somewhere here …. somehow being labeled peace but being so violent. Or maybe it was not Bynum but the crack head, Lamar Odom.

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  133. mayBee wrote (#127): “I think it is very important- if we are to believe all she wanted was an apology- that she went out first with her inaccurate and over dramatic description of what happened.”

    For a snapshot of where the controversy stood, and who’s claimed what yet, after the event on March 8th, but before Fields’ March 10th statement in Breitbart.com, consider this from the Daily Beat on March 9th, which our host linked here that same day:

    “It’s obviously unacceptable that someone crossed a line and made physical contact with our reporter,” said the Breitbart statement, issued under the name of Larry Solov, the outlet’s CEO and president. “What Michelle has told us directly is that someone ‘grabbed her arm’ and while she did not see who it was, Ben Terris of The Washington Post told her that it was Corey Lewandowski. If that’s the case, Corey owes Michelle an immediate apology.”

    The statement was issued in the wee hours of Wednesday morning but remains Breitbart’s official comment on the matter, hours after sources said Lewandowski acknowledged to Breitbart’s Washington political editor, Matthew Boyle, that he did manhandle Fields.

    Lewandowski’s explanation to Boyle, said these sources, was that he and Fields had never met before and that he didn’t recognize her as a Breitbart reporter, instead mistaking her for an adversarial member of the mainstream media. Trump’s press secretary, Hope Hicks, didn’t respond to an email seeking comment. Nor did the usually responsive Boyle.

    The Breitbart statement struck sources within Breitbart and outside the company as strangely inadequate, given that it blames an unidentified “someone,” uses the conditional phrase “if that’s the case,” and leaves open the possibility that Lewandowski didn’t lay hands on Fields.

    An additional wrinkle is that Politico, for one, didn’t identify Terris as Fields’s witness, at his request, because the Washington Post reporter had arranged informally to meet with Lewandowski on Wednesday for a Style section story and planned to confront the campaign manager about Tuesday night’s incident.

    Hours after the Breitbart statement identified Terris, the Trump campaign informed him that his interview with Lewandowski would not take place, blaming a scheduling conflict—leaving several colleagues to believe that Breitbart had essentially given the Trump campaign manager a heads up on Terris’s intention.

    This was already a huge controversy before Fields reluctantly weighed in with her Breitbart.com statement on March 10th, which begins with the words: “I never sought to be part of the story.”

    So the notion that “she went out first with her inaccurate and over dramatic description of what happened” is silly. Before her own statement, this was already all over the media, and the Trump campaign had already begun to contradict itself. They had her phone number. Someone — surely either Trump himself or Lewandowski with Trump’s authority — made the conscious decision not to use it, but instead to destroy her career.

    I don’t see any comparability here. I don’t see any moral equivalence. I just see a lot of people trying — tenaciously, but ridiculously — to defend a thuggish campaign manager bruising up a woman reporter who was merely doing her job.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  134. What she says, and what she has consistently said is she was grabbed hard and dragged down.But she didn’t fall down. You just don’t do that do that to a lady.

    I am very sorry women. I have always treated a lady like a lady.

    If a woman wants to fight me with a pugil stick, I’m game.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  135. Write in haste

    Refute at leisure

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  136. Well, Beldar, two kinds of people write an article starting “I never sought to be part of the story”: Those who never sought to be part of the story, and those who sought to be part of the story. And she did go out before they went public, and she did tell her WaPo colleague he could write about it, and they both- as we can see with our own two eyes- we unreliable witnesses. They were amped up. They were upset. They created *even more* drama.

    I don’t see that she did anything to diminish the odds that she would be part of the story.
    I do not defend him, but I do think too many people- who I otherwise agree with- want this to have been bigger than it was because they want Trump to go down.
    I don’t think that’s ridiculous, but I do think we should have more integrity. We don’t need to sign on to the drama just because we think it is good for our side.
    In the end, it won’t be.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  137. No I write nothing in haste.

    Nor would I legislate in haste.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  138. Maybee, when you watch the video, do you think Corey never made contact with Fields? That was his version. His version was a total lie.

    Her version is that he grabbed her arm hard and she was able to maintain her balance, but it was so hard she almost fell. I can see how that could feel like someone pulling you down. I don’t know how you’re supposed to see an ‘almost threw me to the ground’. Trump’s fans have said ‘you don’t see her thrown to the ground’, but Fields gave us no reason to think we would see this.

    End of the day, Fields’s version is what the videos and witnesses back up. Corey’s version is the that he never touched her, a lie.

    RKS is trolling with this idea that someone deliberately roughing a woman up to shut her up is the same as getting hurt playing sports. Others say Fields just bruises easily so it’s OK to bruise her.

    But a great test of good faith is how people react to Corey and Trump lying about this event. What say you to that part?

    Dustin (2a8be7)

  139. Someone had grabbed me tightly by the arm and yanked me down. I almost fell to the ground, but was able to maintain my balance. Nonetheless, I was shaken.

    this is only the most preposterous thing anyone has ever said ever

    The Washington Post’s Ben Terris immediately remarked that it was Trump’s campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, who aggressively tried to pull me to the ground.

    let’s have some fun this beat is sick michelle might take you up on your pugil stick

    offer, Mr. 57

    i think it’s weird she doesn’t mention about the bruises don’t you

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  140. Maybee, when you watch the video, do you think Corey never made contact with Fields? That was his version. His version was a total lie.

    Yes, his version was a lie too.
    They both lied.

    Thus, the vortex of drama we have now.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  141. I wasn’t called upon to ask a question during the televised press conference, but afterwards Trump wandered around, stopping at every reporter to take their questions. When he approached me, I asked him about his view on an aspect of affirmative action.

    oh my goodness this is not even remotely something that actually happened in America

    baby girl Mr. Trump did NOT approach you – no way no how – it never happened

    i want to believe in you Michelle but you keep letting me down when you say stuff like this that’s not true

    i’m just

    i’m very disappointed in you

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  142. See, that’s just it, happyfeet.

    She was giving her story the flattering edit from the beginning. People do that for a reason.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  143. it reminders me of that golden ticket song from that musical about the golden ticket

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  144. Lies and the lying liars that report them.

    WTAE fires anchor Wendy Bell over controversial Facebook remarks. Bell had posted that the suspects in a March 9 massacre were likely ‘young black men … with multiple siblings from multiple fathers.’

    On March 21, Bell posted to her work Facebook page thoughts concerning still at-large shooters who killed five adults and an unborn baby at a Wilkinsburg cookout this month as well as her observations of a restaurant worker in the South Side.

    Many viewed her post as racist, and she received criticism and support online.

    Bell, who is white, later edited her post and apologized, saying she regretted “offending anyone” and that her post had been “insensitive and could be viewed as racist.”

    Her error was in admitting the post might offend. Once you do that it’s like ringing a dinner bell.
    If there weren’t any people complaining before there sure as shooting will be after. Maybe even the same people who did the drive by.

    Free speech for thee, but not for Whitie.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  145. They both lied.

    Thus, the vortex of drama we have now.

    mayBee (b709ed)

    You are right that the Trump campaign lied.

    I do not see how you’ve shown how Fields has lied. You’ve seen that basically everything she said did happen, but you don’t see her thrown towards the ground, which was the Trump strawman version of Fields’s story. In fact, even with that bit you note that Fields was an amped up victim of an assault and an unreliable witness. Why call her a liar if her story is almost entirely proven true?

    But at the end of the day, Trump is the one running for president. When he lies, and his campaign lies, and double down on those lies, and roll over their victims, that has great significance.

    You seem to be holding Fields to a much higher standard than Trump’s campaign, which makes absolutely no sense.

    Dustin (2a8be7)

  146. She’s probably forgotten Mr. feets,the ball peen hammer.

    Any prosecutors out there, I had nothing to do with the bruises on the legs you see at the state fair. Or Walmart.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  147. I have no idea how those bruises got there.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  148. mayBee, will you concede that at worst, viewed through your eyes (which don’t at all match what I see on this video), Fields might have exaggerated the extent of the physical contact? That’s what you’re referring to as her “lies,” right?

    Will you further concede the Lewandowski didn’t merely exaggerate, but deliberately lied through his teeth when he denied ever touching Fields?

    If you concede both, then tell us in what universe they’re morally equivalent.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  149. I don’t come around these parts much anymore and won’t be. Patterico’s place used to be an indispensable right- of- center every day stop for me for over a decade–until I gradually realized that my affinity for the site had waned. I guess I started to realize that many of the posts seemed sort of petty and just were not of great interest to me. And the comments seemed to have gradually morphed– from a place where intelligent people sought to share and gain insights from other intelligent people who came from different walks of life, different occupations, different educational backgrounds and different regions of the country– to a place that resembled a newspaper comment section free for all. Ethical advocacy seems to have given way to insults and hysterical and dishonest shilling from all sides. All that being said, observing this thread is so very sad. Seeing a long time and valued Patterico reader like MayBee being personally insulted here today is disgusting. The insults are utterly pointless and unnecessary.

    There is not one person here who knows the “facts” and the “truth” of what actually happened with Corey and Fields. Stop pretending you do. There is not one person on this site who knows for sure whether Ted Cruz has been faithful to his wife. You can hope he’s the next president for many reasons, but defending him on the martial faithfulness score is really, really stupid because you. don’t. know. There is not one person on this thread who knows what is going on with Trump’s tax returns or whether he’s sane or not, or whether he is more or less electable than Ted. But quite a few people have cast a ballot for him. I seriously doubt those millions of voters are all “loons and goons and racists and sheeple” as is regularly posited here. Just a suggestion, but maybe looking a little deeper into who is, and who is not supporting all the candidates both D and R, and why, would be more useful.

    This once important and essential political website is self-destructing– unfortunately with the assistance of its proprietor along with facilitation of many commenters and a couple of people with guest posting privileges who really should know better. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one smelling the putrid effects of decomposition here.

    elissa (800aa9)

  150. elissa you are hello!

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  151. Lewandowski’s battery of Fields pales in comparison to Trump’s violent physical assaults on his own wife. Enough f*cking around. I’m ready to hear what the Trumpkins have to say on *that* topic.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  152. This isn’t a drama. It’s a lynching.
    You are not a party, you are a mob.

    Your girl lied.

    My girl told the truth.

    Your girl is feted like a hero.

    My girl is unceremoniously fired.

    You all want to claim standards?

    Your standards are whatever can be gotten away with.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  153. WATCH: This is what we have to look forward to if TRUMP IS THE NOMINEE http://therightscoop.com/watch-this-is-what-we-have-to-look-forward-to-if-trump-is-the-nominee/

    Torcer (30905b)

  154. Also: still waiting for a Trump supporter to actually put forth an intelligent, non-bigoted defense of his or her support for Trump.

    Been waiting for months, now. Shocker.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  155. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3Nr-FoA9Ps

    Sophia Loren Mambo Italiano

    Steve57 (10097b)

  156. Off topic: Cruz on Kimmel last night. There are a couple of funny moments, but it’s actually a more serious political discussion than most “news” interviews, especially re “securing and patrolling” Muslim neighborhoods.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  157. Illegal use of the hands Offense, offset by, Illegal use of the hands Defense.
    Repeat 3rd down

    Always treat a lady like a lady only applies if you are in reputable profession and not involved in street violence like reporter scrums, or press gaggles.
    “I was only trying to protect Mr. Trump from being gaggled in the scrum”

    steveg (fed1c9)

  158. @78 millhouse

    I believe Florida is a state where you don’t have to disclose criminal convictions when applying for a job so Trump should fire CL and rehire him in the interest of rehabilitation so he doesn’t end up a neighborhood watchman like george can’t flim flam the zim zam.

    pinandpuller (c16705)

  159. @56 narciso

    I was actually playing off Nas the rapper who’s always getting beef with DMX and JayZee. Need to back off a few turns on the reference bolt.

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  160. There is not one person here who knows the “facts” and the “truth” of what actually happened with Corey and Fields.

    Untrue, Elissa.

    We know Corey lied about laying hands on her. Those are facts. We can’t really see clearly how hard he did this or which direction he yanked her if any. Fields claims down. Corey claims he never touched her and the videos prove he is a liar.

    There is not one person on this thread who knows what is going on with Trump’s tax returns or whether he’s sane or not, or whether he is more or less electable than Ted.

    We know that the tax returns are bad for Trump because he has been asked to disclose them and refuses. We know Trump is far less electable than Cruz because of polling that is consistent and dramatic on this issue.

    defending him on the martial faithfulness score is really, really stupid because you. don’t. know.

    It was a disgusting story with no basis. That is more than enough to point out it proves what kind of man Trump is. He has personally promoted this story and as it has fallen apart, every source denying it aside from one Trump aide, I think we can draw reasonable conclusions.

    Maybee is a great commenter and I’ve treated her with respect. Unfortunately a lot of discussions do get ugly.

    Trump is now the face of this party, and it is a very ugly face. He is the face of immigration reform and a border wall. These issues, Elissa, have new polling data showing support for a border wall and immigration reform have fallen dramatically as Trump has scandalized himself repeatedly.

    He is running for president and I get to criticize him if I want to.

    Dustin (2a8be7)

  161. Beldar,

    RE: the interview, Cruz is a very bright guy and I have always thought he was a legit conservative. But the more I see of him it becomes obvious how terrible of a candidate he is. The running over DT joke? He’s just painfully awkward and lacking in social awareness.

    I’m also curious how constitutional conservatives square the natural citizen issue. I’m sure you’ve covered this but it’s obvious it’s an open question and what little we know about the history of the clause suggests he would not be eligible. If Cruz is right that he’s a “natural born” citizen then so would Obama even if he was born in Kenyan. Nobody ever made that argument during the whole “birther” controversy, everybody assumed that had Obama been born in Kenya that he would not qualify. But now all too many conservatives happily look the other way.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  162. @57 Imam Hoagie

    Beldar is a lot like Beetoven: brilliant and passionate but he doesn’t hear the applause for his symphonies any more so it makes him kind of surly.

    BTW does anyone in your extended family have any tips on harvesting bamboo shoots?

    My understanding is species doesn’t really matter. I have a nice timber bamboo spreading and its finally shooting up what will be 1″ canes I hope. Eventually to be 2-3″ and 30′ tall.

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  163. elissa, I’m not going to reply in any detail to all of your scolding. If you choose to drop by and address other topics, I would, as always, read what you write with interest. But I reject the false equivalency you’re drawing between Trumpkin conspiracy theorists, and those who confront and rebut their nonsense. I also reject the suggestion that the latter group have been remotely as rude or nasty as the former, here or anywhere else on the internet. I’ll spare you the Wall-o’-Text that could rebut that thoroughly.

    Yes, as in the nation generally, the atmosphere in many blogs’ comment sections is quite roiled this cycle. I have a definite opinion about whose fault that is: It’s the Republican frontrunner, the Grand Champion Troll of the World. He sets the tone; Trumpkins, and especially the very most vocal Trumpkin shills, merely mimic his methods and means.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  164. This is a great article. Trump’s campaign, like Clinton’s, will lie and then ridicule those who tell the truth.

    ALL of Trump’s defenders in this thread and the last couple have admitted the Trump campaign lied about the Fields assault. They say it and then quickly move on and ignore it, and mock those who are making an issue of it. The campaign has been caught red handed, but they just keep trucking, without shame.

    Old Christoph,

    Courts have already resolved the issue. Cruz is eligible. Thanks for your concern.

    You’re right that if Cruz is eligible than so is Obama. This is something called “precedence”. Obama is the current president if you weren’t aware. I give you 2/10 for the troll.

    Dustin (2a8be7)

  165. Also: still waiting for a Trump supporter to actually put forth an intelligent, non-bigoted defense of his or her support for Trump.

    Been waiting for months, now. Shocker.
    Leviticus (efada1) — 3/31/2016 @ 2:49 pm

    Hmmmm Good Question!

    I for one would like to see that addressed as well…

    Torcer (30905b)

  166. “I’m also curious how constitutional conservatives square the natural citizen issue.”

    – Old Reader

    Sure you are. It’s a (non)issue that’s been rehashed a thousand times in a thousand different forums, and probably a few dozen times by Beldar himself (and a dozen other commenters) on this site in the past few months. I have a very hard time believing that you’ve missed all of that if you’re a regular reader of this site, as you claim to be. I find it much easier to believe that you are attempting to shift the discussion away from anything remotely meaningful – for example, the Trump campaign’s regular endorsements of physical violence against women.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  167. Fields reluctantly weighed in with her Breitbart.com statement

    If you think she “reluctantly weighed in” then you have no clue about her history of inserting herself into the story or making allegations only to go silent or back off when challenged. Apparently she accused police of assaulting her during an occupy protest. She certainly did not object to PJ media making a story out of a professor calling her a retard on twitter. She also apparently accused some little league blogger of hacking her computer and had to be told by her employer to back off; as well as accusing a Congressmen of groping her. She interviews RFK Jr., gets very close into his personal space, then labels his response of wagging his finger at her as “getting handsy.”

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  168. Corey Lewandowski is small potatoes – just a hopped-up little jackboot hired to distract.

    If we’re gonna talk about violence against women, let’s talk about how Donald Trump beat and raped his wife because her doctor didn’t stitch on Trump’s hairpiece painlessly enough.

    What a piece of sh*t.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  169. Leviticus, I haven’t followed blog in many years (hence my moniker). And Beldar is a bright guy so I was wondering what he thought is all. I do not think it’s obvious either way but I tend to think he is not a natural born citizen as the Framers used the term. Likely courts would treat it as a political question, particularly in close cases. And then there’s a standing problem. Cruz knows all this and rolled the dice.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  170. Uh huh. Must be hard to stay on top of developments here, what with being repeatedly banned and all.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  171. You guys are truly hacks if you think the natural born citizen issue is a conclusively decided non-issue. That’s just not the case. Do I think it’s likely a court will disqualify a nominee or even president because of the issue? Probably not and that’s why Cruz rolled the dice even though he knows he is probably not eligible.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  172. Don’t feed the troll, gang.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  173. I’m not happy about the circumstances but I’m very happy to see maybee and elissa, and I hope they are both well.

    DRJ (15874d)

  174. Trump lied when he didn’t have to, and folks were content to lie or avoid enough contact with facts to lie for him.

    I’ll just say I’ve had enough of that, since 1992 at least.

    I happen to agree Cruz is a weak candidate.

    Both can be true.

    I’m not sure what. people,want to save or dispose of, but it’s too late. There is no hope. There is no winning. There is no way out. It’s worse than “we have no party.” The people are gone, or too many of them.

    SarahW (67599f)

  175. elissa, I’m not going to reply in any detail to all of your scolding.

    Because she correctly called you out for immature, petty behavior. You’re very bright but just blinded with rage right now.

    I come here and comment a few times against the majority sentiment and am treated with contempt and accused of being some random troll. I’ve been a life long conservative and I used to read your blog and Patterico but somehow I’m some sock puppet of some internet troll, spreading lies and deceit.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  176. You don’t send me flowers!
    You don’t sing me love songs!
    You hardly write a post I like anymore!

    Stop playing in the middle of the street, you kids!

    nk (dbc370)

  177. RKS

    Two words:

    Denny Crane

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  178. I just came over to say how much I’m ignoring you!
    I just came over to say how much I don’t care!
    I just came over to say I’m not talking to you!

    You didn’t even notice I was gone!

    nk (dbc370)

  179. I’m not sure if this was mentioned above but Fields’ boyfriend was one of the first people to talk about this online. My impression is that Fields initially stayed quiet because she thought her employer could smooth things over, but it’s not unusual for friends and family to speak out anyway.

    DRJ (15874d)

  180. Denny Crane

    Trump’s first appointee to the Supreme Court, narrowly beating out Dan Fielding and Elsbeth Tascioni.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  181. Fields’ boyfriend was one of the first people to talk about this online.

    Probably couldn’t get near enough to Lewandowski to punch his lights out. Oddly, there are still some men in the world who dislike seeing women roughed up by other men. I wonder if there is a “domestic violence is OK” clause in Trump’s prenups.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  182. elissa did I have anything to do with your leaving?

    Steve57 (10097b)

  183. Elsbeth Tascioni Louis Canning.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  184. @149 elissa

    Welcome to The Daily Palaver

    pinandpuller (a12946)

  185. Apparently, Fox News and Buzzfeed published a document about Fields’ case, yet forgot to redact her address. So now she’s had to move out of her apartment.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  186. This is the kind of thing where I would hope there would be more agreement in general concept,
    but there apparently hasn’t been.

    A few thoughts that I think we should be able to agree on:
    1) From the various angles of the initial event that we have, it appears to me quite clear that at one moment Fields was walking and keeping pace with Trump, close enough to his side to try to talk to him. Then it is clear Lewandowski reaches out from behind, grabs her arm, and tugs on her with enough force to stop her immediately in her tracks. That is not the kind of jostling I’ve ever encountered on buses or subways in Philly. I would be quite startled if I was walking along and someone grabbed me from behind and pulled with enough force to stop me. In fact, if that happened out of nowhere I would turn with my heart racing and ready to decide if it was going to be “fight” or “flight”, expecting to get into an altercation of some type.
    2) It was not Fields’ first inclination to file a police report. She apparently herself did not think it was that big of a deal, but thought it was something and expected a “gentlemanly” response.
    3) Then it was claimed by Trump and Lewandowski to never have even happened, and the fact that she had not (yet) filed a police report was held up as evidence that it never happened.

    So the game of “chicken”/poker was on.

    Well, when Fields’ employer apparently turned on her, this little incident all of a sudden put her career and livelihood on the line.
    So, Fields can give up, crawl into her hole, and then come out to apply for a job part time at Walmart. (Which might be a very good job for some people in some situations, but it does not replace a career of a young person at a “professional” or “near-professional” level.
    Or
    she can refuse to quit, match their raise, and raise herself,
    which she did.

    Do I think this was some crime that deserves jail time? Not at all. (In fact, Fields apparently doesn’t think so either, or she would have filed a police report immediately.)
    Do I think Field’s was justified bringing the charge in the midst of this situation?
    Absolutely.
    She was basically told, “You’re bluffing, and we’re calling your bluff”.
    So she called their bluff.

    In one way, as has already been said, this is a bunch of really, really immature and stupid stuff,
    but the fact that someone running for president and his senior staff are happy to prolong it is immature and stupid on a serious level.

    And it was not long at all before another incident of Lewandowski grabbing someone from behind was caught on camera, and again Trump said Lewandowski didn’t do it, and again, close examination from at least one angle clearly shows the arm connected to the hand doing the grabbing matched the sport coat Lewandowski was wearing.

    In one way this is far less important than major policy issues,
    but on the other hand, it suggests these folks are not the kind you can trust to be in charge no matter how wonderful their positions are.

    This reminds me of a defining moment in my political awareness. When Bush and Gore were debating, Bush tried to compliment Gore for the federal response to a wild fire or something in Texas, and instead of a gracious “Thank you”, Gore confabulated being there in person and being part of the effort, which he wasn’t.

    MD soon back in Philly (b2164f)

  187. I don’t consider Trumps immigration policy platform towards Mexicans and Guatemala to be bigoted. *bleep* Vincent Fox and Jorge Ramos
    I don’t think his idea of temporarily stopping visas, refugee status etc from Middle Eastern Muslims is bigoted.
    I think Trump’s primary economic platform of just repeating: “I have $9B” is hilarious but he is right that the Chinese are manipulating the yuan
    Trump is correct that we’e made very bad deals lately. He has noted Bowe Berghdal, Iran, as smoking bad deals
    His spirited distaste for things PC is refreshing
    He wants vets to get better care
    He wants a yuge defense budget and the greatest military
    He will personally water board ISIS… well, not really. I’m sure he’ll give it to the CIA to outsource it to the Jordanians. (Obama has probably also outsourced the using of dark means in dark corners to those cultures who are a little less squeamish)

    steveg (fed1c9)

  188. You’re not alone Old Reader. Because I stood up against the constant vitriol and just plain nasty name calling of a few commenters here like papertiger and ropelight I was informed that I am “a knowingly lying piece of caca tuckfard”. Now bear in mind I AM for Cruz and have stated such here repeatedly. I send money to Cruz and if my damn committeeman decides to he’s supposed to put up lawn signs or Cruz. Lawn signs are a first for me. I’m about as conservative as one can get (and more so than many here) socially, culturally, economically, militarily and religiously but because I defended Trump supporters I became a liar and a “tuckfard”. That’s why when I read Sarah W’s coment: “I’m not sure what people, want to save or dispose of, but it’s too late. There is no hope. There is no winning. There is no way out. It’s worse than “we have no party.” The people are gone, or too many of them.” I agreed with her.

    Imam Hoagie ™ (e4fcd6)

  189. It takes a lot of energy to stop a 100+ lb woman who is walking briskly, perhaps 3MPH or more. She is also not paying a lot of attention to that as she questions the candidate. To have your arm firmly grabbed by a braced, stationary man and effectively YANKED backwards in a sudden jerk is NOT a trivial thing. All through a few square inches of fingerhold. Unexpectedly.

    It is amazing she did NOT fall down. That she did not change her expression immediately is probably because she was trying so very hard not to fall down and she really hadn’t grokked what had happened yet. To portray this as a trivial rebuke or a casual correction is asinine. Slapping her would have required less force.

    Would it have caused pain and a bruise? The energy exerted to stop her is a bit more than that of being hit in the arm by a Serena Williams tennis serve. So, I’d say yes.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  190. Ted showed up on J. Kimmel last night. His interview was ok.

    I was distracted by his ill fitting rumplesuit again. He has a hunch of fabric, too much shoulder pad in the wrong place He is too narrow on top and thick in the middle to wear off-the-rack, he needs a bespoke suit for the tailoring his sloping shoulders and long arms demand.

    And he shouldnt slop around trying to look at his ease. He shouldn’t wear a dressy suit (however cheap and ill fitting it might be) without a tie. If he was ts polished ease that’s a look for a sport coat and slacks. He just looks disheveled and gawky.

    http://youtu.be/OmI6JQz2M10

    SarahW (67599f)

  191. MD I salute you.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  192. @180 Kevin M

    Mormon Jesus doesn’t like vigilante justice or backup cameras with targeting reticles.

    Mormon Jesus is slow to anger and quick to prophesy Ted Cruz is harbinger of Last Days.

    Mormon Jesus says when he saw Michelle Fields’ pen he thought it was a bomb too.

    pinandpuller (928ad9)

  193. Everything steveg says appears to be true and is reason enough for people to be interested in supporting trump.

    My point has been that when you then look at Trump, you don’t see a successful businessman who has built and run major businesses,
    but
    you see someone who has managed to make a lot of headlines and real estate deals,
    and coming out in good personal shape while thousands of others are hurt in bankruptcy proceedings.

    That, and he has taken all kinds of non-conservative positions over the years,
    and the problem we are in is because people say all kinds of things and we believe them,
    we have no reason to believe Trump anymore than Boehner.

    and he has shown untrustworthy personal behavior.

    MD soon back in Philly (b2164f)

  194. It takes a lot of energy to stop a 100+ lb woman who is walking briskly, perhaps 3MPH or more. She is also not paying a lot of attention to that as she questions the candidate. To have your arm firmly grabbed by a braced, stationary man and effectively YANKED backwards in a sudden jerk is NOT a trivial thing. All through a few square inches of fingerhold. Unexpectedly.

    she could’ve died

    happyfeet (831175)

  195. steve–

    I agree with some of Trump’s positions, particularly that the elites of the two parties, for different reasons, have abandoned the middle class and the non-college worker. Between shipping manufacturing and back-office jobs overseas and importing Central American workers to do most of the construction and other physical labor jobs, they have squeezed many children of the middle class into the underclasses. AND THEY ARE RIGHTLY PISSED OFF.

    What I don’t agree with are 1) Trumps thoughtless, n3egative-sum solutions, that have always failed in the past and 2) Trump’s general qualifications for the job (I cannot begin to count the ways he does not measure up).

    Simply being able to rant a more or less correct rant does not make one the person to fix the problems. And in this case all he has is the rant.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  196. The bankruptcy proceedings are mostly or entirely from the casino businesses he operated, which indisputably fell on hard times. He used the bankruptcy protection to protect his interests in these businesses as much as he could. I have never seen it explained why these dealing were unethical. Creditors are adversaries, any good CEO will view them that way. Of course, Trump U doesn’t seem worth the money it charged and I hate sleazy companies like that. But I understand the he was mean to his creditors line of attack. These guys–large bondholders of major corporations–can take care of themselves and use the laws to their full advantage just the same as Trump did.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  197. Yes to what Kevin M. said,
    thank you Steve57.

    She couldn’t have died, hf, but I do know people who might have killed reflexively had someone grabbed them from behind that way. One of them was nicknamed “Ripper” as in “Jack the …”. grabbing someone from behind with enough force to bring them to a jolting stop is not like bumping into somebody.
    No, it is not felony assault, I’m not saying it is, but it is what it was.

    MD soon back in Philly (b2164f)

  198. Fields was supported on the arm of and comforted by someone who saw her yanked away from Trump. (WaPo guy?)That usually happens when people see your distress. You can believe it was very unexpected and startling.

    She didn’t ever exaggerate. Others did on her behalf, but she just laid out what happened. Why the lying? Why not not ” no harm meant , have some Trump steaks, not “Ididn’tdoitnobodysawmedoityoucan’tproveanything.”

    Because you know why and I hate my country.

    SarahW (67599f)

  199. happyfeet–

    and I say this with love and a lot of tolerance.

    Eff off. You are a hindrance. A thought bump. An impediment to any rational discussion. All you have is clown nose. You really need a time out.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  200. love you too hugs

    happyfeet (831175)

  201. Mormon Jesus

    Now we get to the underlying bigotry. Bet you didn’t like Romney either.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  202. I do know people who might have killed reflexively had someone grabbed them from behind that way.

    Just be glad it wasn’t Buffy!

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  203. It takes a lot of energy to stop a 100+ lb woman who is walking briskly, perhaps 3MPH or more.
    Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/31/2016 @ 4:29 pm

    Give me a break. Walking briskly?

    Steve57 (10097b)

  204. Dear Kevin:

    One of the problems with the internet is how easily people who are normally good and kind become braying jackasses on screen. There is something about the anonymity that brings out the worst in most people.

    I have always found Mr. Feet to be like the “broken window” in Rudy Guiliani’s view of urban crime. He isn’t serious, and is always lazy in his thinking. It’s all about the lulz with him, and his continual drumbeat of nonsense makes it tough to follow interesting posts.

    Every once in a while (well, more than once in a while) he will decide it is important to be particularly vulgar and thoughtless. And then he will just cut loose, and nothing (other than Patterico) can stop him.

    It’s usually something to do with women. Also religion in general. But most of all opposition to SSM or abortion. He just becomes a jerk.

    I know some people in real life who claim to know him, and insist he is a great guy.

    I’m not so sure, but then I have my detractors, too.

    I think what Mr. Feet wants is the right to crap in Patterico’s punch bowl whenever he wants. He thinks it is free speech. Other folks suggest just ignoring him (which goes back to the “broken windows in the Internet” metaphor). It’s tiring, but it is what it is. At least Patterico let him know what he thinks of his approach recently in the comments.

    Is it any wonder HF is a big Trump fan? They have a lot in common.

    Nothing to be done. I just hope that this kind of thing (and not just from HF) doesn’t drown out other posters who I read often and value a great deal.

    Kevin, I read this recently, and I think does a good job of explaining why many of us don’t care for Trump. Maybe worth a read?

    http://keithhennessey.com/2016/03/30/oppose-donald-trump/?utm_content=buffer5703a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

    I rather fear the following, by the way:

    http://observer.com/2016/03/what-the-gop-should-know-now-about-warren-g-hardings-presidential-win-in-1920/

    Thanks for your many contributions to Patterico’s site.

    Simon Jester (2708f4)

  205. I question the math.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  206. MD,

    That’s a good summary. What was Fields supposed to do after being defamed and slandered? Ben Terris, the WaPo journalist/eye witness, was also slandered by Lewandowki’s blatant and malicious lie and Trump’s vocal support of his Chief of Thugs. Should Fields/Terris have just assumed a supine position and let the Trump steam roller of lies destroy their careers when filing a police report could allow the actual facts to be ascertained, revealing Trump and Lewandowski willing to attempt to destroy journalist’s careers rather than accept responsibility for an irresponsible act?

    It’s not just Fields and Terris who should be justifiably concerned. Trump is notorious for trying to have journalists who paint unflattering portraits of the sniveling coward fired.

    Rick Ballard (edb5cf)

  207. I it to meantt takes a lot of energy to stop a 100+ lb woman who is walking briskly, perhaps 3MPH or more. She is also not paying a lot of attention to that as she questions the candidate. To have your arm firmly grabbed by a braced, stationary man and effectively YANKED backwards in a sudden jerk is NOT a trivial thing. All through a few square inches of fingerhold. Unexpectedly.

    It is amazing she did NOT fall down. That she did not change her expression immediately is probably because she was trying so very hard not to fall down and she really hadn’t grokked what had happened yet. To portray this as a trivial rebuke or a casual correction is asinine. Slapping her would have required less force.

    Would it have caused pain and a bruise? The energy exerted to stop her is a bit more than that of being hit in the arm by a Serena Williams tennis serve. So, I’d say yes.
    Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/31/2016 @ 4:29 pm she would be walking briskly at

    Steve57 (10097b)

  208. “All you have is clown nose. You really need a time out.”

    I can tolerate clowns. I can’t tolerate liars.

    “My point has been that when you then look at Trump, you don’t see a successful businessman who has built and run major businesses, but you see someone who has managed to make a lot of headlines and real estate deals, and coming out in good personal shape while thousands of others are hurt in bankruptcy proceedings.”

    What’s the general failure rate of start-up businesses, again? How many of the people ‘hurt in bankruptcy proceedings’ are blaming Trump specifically for the bankruptcy? Trump generally appears to take a shotgun approach to these businesses-trying several in the hopes that at least one makes it and becomes profitable. Not all that different from a Paul Graham.

    “it appears to me quite clear that at one moment Fields was walking and keeping pace with Trump, close enough to his side to try to talk to him. Then it is clear Lewandowski reaches out from behind, grabs her arm, and tugs on her with enough force to stop her immediately in her tracks.”

    It’s not “clear.”

    ” I would be quite startled if I was walking along and someone grabbed me from behind and pulled with enough force to stop me.”

    Do you normally walk near leading Presidential candidates after their prepared remarks in the middle of crowds, against the verbal and physical directions of Secret Service agents?

    “It was not Fields’ first inclination to file a police report. She apparently herself did not think it was that big of a deal, but thought it was something and expected a “gentlemanly” response.”

    Nope. She immediately recorded and redacted a conversation with Ben Terris afterward with extra-dramatic emphasis on Stuff That Didn’t Happen.

    “Well, when Fields’ employer apparently turned on her”

    She turned on them if anything, disregarding both Joel Pollak’s sage advice to keep quiet about this until all of the facts were in and getting another staffer fired when he suggested it wasn’t a big deal.

    She lied for her own benefit. She has a history of lying for her own benefit. She doesn’t care one bit about common respect for the lives and careers of others, especially if they adopt a live-and-let-live opinion. Breitbart’s and Trump’s attitudes toward this are the most credited and creditable response possible-stand by your good employees unless there’s incontrovertible evidence of wrongdoing. (Trump’s is better, at least he didn’t reflexively fire his guy for four days.)

    All women and men, but especially women, because they’re the ones most able and most tempted to take advantage of the toxic feminist employment environment by making mountains out of molehills like this, need to absolutely see that these tactics can backfire horribly and publicly, and that you do indeed deserve all the embarrassment and derision that anyone can muster if you try to get away with them in the future.

    Dystopia Max (644624)

  209. @ MD [in] Philly (#185), who wrote, as part of an excellent comment:

    From the various angles of the initial event that we have, it appears to me quite clear that at one moment Fields was walking and keeping pace with Trump, close enough to his side to try to talk to him. Then it is clear Lewandowski reaches out from behind, grabs her arm, and tugs on her with enough force to stop her immediately in her tracks.

    This is exactly what jumps out at me from watching the video — it’s her sudden vector change. I’m not equipped to do even back-of-the-envelope physics or to calculate the forces involved, but there are experts who can do exactly that from this kind of video. But one need not be a digital-video kinesthesiologist to see that this woman got yanked hard enough to stop and then reverse her forward momentum. She, or anyone in her position, would have felt that she’d been yanked off her footing because what they’d be sensing most acutely is the rapid deceleration from her previous direction of travel, turning into acceleration in a direction nearly opposite to her previous direction of travel.

    The severity of the sudden deceleration is masked by the fact that the video, slowed, doesn’t show continuous motion between the frames. You have to focus on the fact that the camera is fixed — track on a stationary item while watching the highlighted portions showing their positions in each successive frame — to appreciate just what a yank it was.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  210. it was so violent if i didn’t know it was for reals I’d swear it was a Tarantino movie

    happyfeet (831175)

  211. Mr Happyfeet, with the way that The Mr Donald talks, sometimes it is a Tarantino film.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  212. Inglorious Badgerheads?

    nk (dbc370)

  213. “If Cruz is right that he’s a “natural born” citizen then so would Obama even if he was born in Kenyan. Nobody ever made that argument during the whole “birther” controversy..”

    False. I did. Right here in 2008.

    SPQR (4ef6c9)

  214. So pudpuller is exceedingly lame, banal and a bigot. No surprise there.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  215. #149, elissa, they won’t listen, the herd mentality has firmly taken hold. The lemmings are convinced they’re saving the nation and the ends justify the means.

    mayBee, if you go back to before the election heated up and find a few of Beldar’s comments you’ll notice how polite and well-reasoned he was before TDS kinked his soul.

    ropelight (86a284)

  216. @201 Kevin M

    Are we supposed to like Mitt Romney? I voted for him in the general in 2012.

    I guess it was the Trump endorsement that did him in right?

    I honor Mormon Jesus in the name of Cruz’ BFF Glenn Beck and for Planet Beck on which it stands.

    pinandpuller (a12946)

  217. nk, I think the title is, Trump Unchained. I hear the name of the sequel, to be released this summer, is called The Hateful Candidate.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  218. nk, there’s another obvious Tarantino title to play on, but I don’t want the Secret Service knocking at my door.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  219. Reservoir Condoms?

    nk (dbc370)

  220. I’m not going to respond in much detail to Dystopia max, but I will respond to one thing that has been said m,ulitple times by others that seems quite ridiculous and I am surprised people would bother to repeat it:
    Do you normally walk near leading Presidential candidates after their prepared remarks in the middle of crowds, against the verbal and physical directions of Secret Service agents?

    If the secret service can not contain a 100 lb woman from getting into a space where they do not want her,
    then
    the secret service is more incompetent than anyone has given them credit for.

    The secret service really told her not once but twice to stay back and she didn’t, and sicne the Secret service could not perform their job Lewandowski had to step in?
    Really? Really?
    If I had 1/10’s of Trump’s money and was running for president, I could hire better security in less than 2 seconds.

    MD soon back in Philly (b2164f)

  221. #220 nk, ha, ha, no, it’s a riff on Kill Bill.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  222. “It’s scandalous,” he said, in the tones once used by Colonel Blimp, Britain’s best-loved bigot, who adorned the pages of the Evening Standard throughout the 1930s- Nicholas Fraser.

    PS y’all are about four short of The Hatefull Eight but that just means you will have to work twice as hard.

    pinandpuller (a12946)

  223. The one thing someone mentioned above,
    that readers here should have a particular dislike for,
    is lawfare.

    yes, a rich person can make almost anyone shut up by threatening a suit, no matter how ridiculous and unfounded,
    because if you can’t afford to match your opponents legal fees, you lose before the game even starts.
    That is one real good reason for her to bring this to a head through a criminal proceeding,

    and a particularly ugly characteristic of Trump.
    Do you really want someone in the WH who is used to getting their way by bullying? haven’t we had enough of that? Or do you think you’ll be safe because it is a bully that will protect you this time?

    MD soon back in Philly (b2164f)

  224. Djangoff?

    nk (dbc370)

  225. lawfare and astroturf, is how the democrats take people off the board, i’ve listed more examples then I can count, and yet there is still an assumption that things are on the up and up,

    narciso (732bc0)

  226. I’ve never been hit with a tennis racket or anything worth mentioning by Serena Williams. So I’ll give.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  227. Steve57 have you seen that Bill Whittle Afterburner about the USS Pasadena yet?

    Imam Hoagie ™ (e4fcd6)

  228. Simon–

    That article about Harding leaves out a rather important part — The Democrats in 1920 were far worse off. Sure, Harding was a compromise candidate after 10 ballots, but it took the Democrats 44 ballots to get their guy, who started off a weak third. The article neglects that point, and doesn’t even mention the Democrat candidate by name.

    The GOP had been planning to run Tdddy again, but he screwed them all up by dying suddenly in 1919. The Dems were being ratf***ed by Wilson, who was maneuvering to get a third term despite his obvious-to-everyone-else infirmities. So both parties went to the convention divided.

    As it turned out everyone in the country was WAY done with Wilson, but more importantly women had the vote thanks to the Republicans. There were 25 million votes cast in 1920, up from 18 million in 1916, and all those spanking new ladies votes went to the handsome REPUBLICAN Harding.

    Whatever the Trumpies are saying about that election, it has nothing to do with this one, especially as regards women’s votes.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  229. LOL … “The severity of the sudden deceleration”
    ….. WTH?

    RECALL PLEASE .. She was walking along following an over weight 69 year old who also was limited in his speed b/c of the traffic in front of him. She has on heels to boot.

    Uh, severity of sudden deceleration???? WTF? Her head never even moved. You make is sound like one of those Volvo crash dummy commercials.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    My arm hurts b/c of YMCA basketball violence. I need to file criminal charges!

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  230. I think they intended the parallel to be about kasich, but it doesn’t fly, the era was much more turbulent then now, the spanish flu had ravaged the country, we had an anarchist wave of terror, which was responded to with the palmer raids,

    narciso (732bc0)

  231. The simple way to understand the energy involved is this. She had some kinetic energy when walking: 1/2 * mass * velocity-squared. if 130 lbs and 3mph, that’s 1/2 * 60kg * (1.32m/s)^2 = 52 joules. When stopped, she has lost all of that, so AT LEAST that much energy needed to be applied to stop her motion. And that’s the energy of a 56g tennis ball going 96 mph. Which you would feel.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  232. who also was limited in his speed b/c of the traffic in front of him

    Trump. Limited.

    Does not compute. He was bulling his way forward and I sure didn’t see anyone in his way.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  233. Yes, she was not moving very quickly, which is why her head did not jerk. But the point is her arm was not just touched. Do the experiment, have someone walking by you and see how hard you have to grab and pull to make them come to an immediate stop.
    I’m not arguing that this was as felony assault, I’m not even arguing it should be a misdemeanor assault. I’m arguing that it obviously happened with a degree of force that makes L’s claim that he never touched her an obvious lie, and he and Trump upped the ante.
    Did she maybe use some hyperbole about “nearly pulled to the ground”? I think so.

    But if you want to compare her story to his, hers is closer to the truth,
    and if it takes a police report and expert testimony to demonstrate L and T are liars, so be it.

    MD soon back in Philly (b2164f)

  234. “If Cruz is right that he’s a “natural born” citizen then so would Obama even if he was born in Kenyan. Nobody ever made that argument during the whole “birther” controversy..”

    Me, too. But people can’t hear when they are yapping their mouths. The only time I would have a problem is if the mother was foreign, the birthplace was foreign, and there was no biological proof of paternity. Presumably a marriage prior to conception would legalize it in any event, but maybe not. But in all these cases the mother was a citizen, and the mother’s identity is usually clear.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  235. All this focus on the severity of the injury (or not) really misses the point. Trump didn’t perform the tug. But Trump’s campaign did all the dirty after the fact when they had to know they were in the wrong. Even if the wrong was the kind of thing that was ignored in the UW’s womens team win in the elite eight last week.

    The bigger thing is what this says about Trump. And it is irrefutable. Game, set, match.

    BobStewartatHome (7b7fb2)

  236. MD, look how far Trump moves in a few seconds. You have a timer, 20 or so views and should be able to get it fairly accurately. IN the stop-action film, he appears to be moving at 3-5 feet per second. 4 fps is 3 mph or 1.3m/s

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  237. No. He also has to do it “intentionally.” The video doesn’t show that. Brushing against someone in a crowd doesn’t count, sorry. But what the video DOES show (and other pictures) is that Fields intentionally touched Trump on the sleeve. Maybe to get his attention, but so what. The reason doesn’t matter. He did not give consent.

    This comment is a good example of why prosecutors need peremptory strikes. Some people are so biased that they look at black and see white, and look at white and see black. If you cannot remove people like that, you’ll never get 12 people to agree on anything.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  238. The bigger thing is what this says about Trump. And it is irrefutable. Game, set, match.

    Ross Douthat has it right: “Team Trump’s handling of the Fields incident is basically a blueprint for turning a minor airspace issue w/China into thermonuclear war.”

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  239. MD [in] Philly, in your practice, did you ever encounter patients who had sustained neck or back injuries — sometimes evidenced by ruptured intervertebral discs — from being jerked around in the manner you can view in these videos?

    Ms. Fields, fortunately, is young and appears to be in good general health. Do you think she was likely to have age-related arthritic changes, spurring, hardening of the discs, or other things that would have made her prone to real injury? What if instead of a twenty-something reporter of her approximate mass and build, this had been a fifty- or sixty-something reporter? Was Lewandowski just lucky that he chose to rough up someone young, flexible, and in good health?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  240. elissa,

    It’s nice to see you. I miss you. However, I don’t have the slightest regret over my opposition to Trump this primary season. I do have some regret over the anger it has caused me to feel, and the consequent rudeness I think I have undoubtedly engaged in as a result of that anger.

    MayBee,

    It’s also wonderful to see you commenting. I miss you as well. I understand your concern about the videos not fully reflecting the “pulled towards the ground” statement. However, I agree with Dustin that I think the way that Fields’s motion is suddenly arrested, together with the bruises on her arm, represent a fairly aggressive and (pace RKS) not incidental physical intrusion on Ms. Fields. If I were there and Lewandowski pulled that sort of thing with my wife or daughter, I’d likely pop him in the jaw.

    In any event, Ms. Fields is not running for the presidency. Donald Trump is. He is a disastrous candidate and I do not apologize for calling him out on his obsessive and compulsive lying. If that loses me readers, I am not concerned. My conscience is clear on that point.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  241. Let’s look at some of elissa’s criticisms of me, to the extent there are specifics:

    There is not one person here who knows the “facts” and the “truth” of what actually happened with Corey and Fields. Stop pretending you do.

    I don’t know; this seems like something where we have an awful lot of evidence. There’s audio with contemporaneous and seemingly spontaneous descriptions of what just occurred. There’s video from multiple angles. There’s eyewitness testimony. There’s clear lies from the suspect. There’s photographic evidence of bruising. My goodness, if I only had this much evidence in most of my cases!

    There is not one person on this site who knows for sure whether Ted Cruz has been faithful to his wife. You can hope he’s the next president for many reasons, but defending him on the martial faithfulness score is really, really stupid because you. don’t. know.

    Um, OK. Can we agree that attacking him on the faithfulness score is at least as stupid — given that the “evidence” of said unfaithfulness is clear bullshit, coming from people with an axe to grind and zero journalistic standards, supplemented by obsessive and conspiratorial combing of social media with the goal of yanking things from all fair context to triumphantly present them as “evidence” that cannot withstand the slightest scrutiny?

    There is not one person on this thread who knows what is going on with Trump’s tax returns

    I know that he told several stories about how many years he has been audited in the course of four debate minutes; that he has presented exactly zero audit letters; that he has produced a dubious letter from a law firm that speaks of “examinations” and not “audits”; that he is the most dishonest candidate for president in memory; that he claims to have raised money for veterans and last time I checked only half of it got to its destination…need I go on? OK.

    or whether he’s sane or not

    I didn’t realize his mental health was a serious issue, but he’s clearly the most erratic candidate in memory.

    or whether he is more or less electable than Ted.

    We have only the polling to show that. And Ted wins virtually every time.

    Do you support Trump, elissa?

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  242. You know, I regard aggressive stumping for Cruz and aggressive and repeated criticism of Trump as the best way to weed worthless people out of my life and bring better people into it.

    If you’re offended by that statement, you’re probably one of the people I don’t really care to interact with anyway. Have a nice life.

    If you’re pleased by that statement, hi there! Nice to see you here. Stay a while.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  243. Beldar-
    I will pass on how sever the injury could be, but an older person easily could have lost their balance and fallen with who knows what if they fell the “wrong” way.

    I am not going to discuss just how much force in specific calculation (my physics prof in college made disparaging comments about how little her MD understood about forces exerted across the fulcrum of the ankle…, even though I was not pre-med at the time, I thought it a little unfair and wondered how much biochemistry the physics prof knew…)

    And i don’t care if Fields grabbed Trump’s arm and ripped his shirt off, that has no bearing on what L did, and more importantly, said. in denying anything happened at all and that she was delusional.

    You say in public, magnified by all of the media, that someone was actually truly delusional in claiming something that happened that you claim did not happen is a pretty big and clear cut claim.
    Everything after that was just compounding the initial lie. They kept digging holes, then tried to dig other holes nearby and point to them.

    It’s simple. He grabbed her forcefully enough that he had to know it happened. It was not violent as things go, but it happened, it was a shock, and it could have gotten him into a swinging match on the subway or basketball court. And they lied and forced the issue instead of defusing it.

    MD soon back in Philly (b2164f)

  244. Indeed, MD soon back in Philly. Had it been a woman in my life he did that to, there would have likely been a swinging match. To compare that with incidental contact, as in you and I are walking the same direction and we barely bump each other, is the height of Trumpeter asshattery.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  245. As usual, reading Dustin’s comments in this thread, I find myself thinking: this guy writes comments I could have written myself. I agree with many other commenters here, but nobody else channels my own thinking in such an eerie fashion.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  246. Which raises the question…
    have Patterico and Dustin ever been seen together at the same place and time????

    MD soon back in Philly (b2164f)

  247. He is running for president and I get to criticize him if I want to.

    Indeed. We will criticize him. Then we will criticize him again. If he becomes president and our criticisms somehow get heard, and sting, he will use the power of the office to try to silence us. And still, we will criticize him.

    I think Dustin and I have shown that we are willing to criticize people even if evil people want to make us try to pay a price for it.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  248. Which raises the question…
    have Patterico and Dustin ever been seen together at the same place and time????

    Dustin is much better looking than I am, based on pictures I saw on a site trying to upend his life for criticizing an evil man.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  249. Because you know why and I hate my country.
    SarahW (67599f) — 3/31/2016 @ 4:42 pm

    I can appreciate this sentiment.

    The Valdez Fly In is May, by the way.

    http://www.valdezflyin.com/

    Steve57 (10097b)

  250. The premier bush flying event in Alaska!

    I thought peeps should know.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  251. elissa, if you’re reading:

    I think a defining moment for me, personally, in my relationship with Trump supporters who comment on this blog came during an open thread during the debate in which Trump solemnly threatened that if he were president, U.S. military forces certainly would obey his order to commit war crimes by targeting and murdering family members of terrorists. There’s a particularly vile, dishonest Trumpkin shill who regularly comments here — his name appears on this page — who jumped to Trump’s defense on that, mid-debate.

    I kept asking him: “When the military refuses, will you kill these children for Trump?” IIRC, first he evaded the question, then he told a joke, then he asserted that America would be justified in committing this war crime because the Palestinians blow up Israeli busses — and then he finally admitted that no, he personally would not be willing to do the beheadings or the lethal injections or the Hellfire missile strikes or whatever else Trump wanted done to kill these innocent children in the name of the United States of America.

    That’s not a one-off. There are many times when Trump’s walked back statements, leaving Trumpkin shills here dangling on the limb after Trump had already retreated and cut the limb off the tree. The same Trumpkin shill I just referenced, most recently, has insisted that yes, Trump was right — women who’ve had abortions ought to be punished!

    To which, I must ask: Ropelight, will you stone these women who’ve had abortions for Donald Trump?

    I don’t apologize for speaking in the harshest, nastiest tones I can summon up to express my utter contempt for this kind of amoral, sociopathic individual. I only regret that it took me so long to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  252. DRJ! So good to see you. And you, Elissa, and you Patterico! We disagree on this case- it is clear she overplayed her hand. That is not to say Trump is a good candidate.
    And I often disagree with happy feet, but he cracks me up.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  253. Now here you go again
    You say you want your blog
    Well, I for one won’t keep you down
    It’s only right that you should
    Write it the way you feel it
    If you can stand to hear the sound
    Of your commenters bitching endlessly

    Like a buzzsaw .. drives you mad
    Telling you what you should have written
    In your post …
    Have written …
    In your post

    Some will only comment when it’s raining
    Sailors will post about their sailing
    The women… they will come and they will go
    Mostly with a flounce so you’ll know, so you’ll know

    nk (dbc370)

  254. Patterico,

    RE: the targeting of family thing. Has Trump every said he wanted to kill innocent family members? That is often what people imply he meant but all he said, from what I gather, is that he wanted to “go after” family members or hold them to account. Assuming he meant innocent family members, that is obviously wrong, but not necessarily so if he meant go after–as in prosecute–complicit friends and family. Anyway, Israel used to (still does?) bulldoze the family homes of suicide bombers, and the neocons just about defend anything Israel does.

    But his response to that question during the debate–that the military will follow his orders because he’s a leader, apparently even if they’re illegal orders–was his worst moment this entire campaign. Somebody probably could have ended his campaign right there had they confronted him and he had not backed down.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  255. To which, I must ask: Ropelight, will you stone these women who’ve had abortions for Donald Trump?

    How can pro-lifers insist that abortion is murder but also insist contemplating punishing women seeking abortion is beyond the pale? I understand it’s a PR concession but it’s not exactly morally outrageous, given the premises of the pro-life movement. This feigned outrage is just astonishing to me.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  256. Hating Trump is fine. He is a dick. Pursuing criminal charges against any1 for that non event is an abuse of power for purpose of political gain. It is the very thing which should unite Conservatives. Why is this so hard?

    Smear, troll but do not use the criminal justice to destroy a man for that …. Mike Nifongish……

    Rodney King's Spirit (a089dc)

  257. it was the algerian manner of dealing with insurgencies, effective enough they could lecture the syrians with a straight face, it owes a lot to soviet theories of counterinsurgency, which are very scorched earth, these came into effect after the first airport bombing in 1992, in Algiers,

    narciso (732bc0)

  258. Extremely unsettling times and I hope and pray for the best outcome. I’ll support Cruz through engaging in discussions with family, friends, with money and with my vote. It’s a helluva note that this episode has come to dominate the discussion. This burning the village to save it stuff is insane. And so, apparently, is Donald Trump. But then Hillary Clinton is criminally insane and Bernie Sanders is a full-blown moron who adheres to a political ideology that has done more to decimate mankind than all the wars, disease and famine in the history of the world.

    Just my $.02…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  259. #256 Old Reader,

    Whenever someone uses the term “the neocons,” I always look to see if the word “Israel” pops up during the next couple of sentences. Congratulations!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  260. Cruz Supporter,

    Yes, just let ignore the fact that Israel routinely did what you call Trump a Nazi for…. But I said neocons and mentioned Israel so I guess responding to the facts is too much to ask.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  261. 253. …I don’t apologize for speaking in the harshest, nastiest tones I can summon up to express my utter contempt for this kind of amoral, sociopathic individual. I only regret that it took me so long to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 3/31/2016 @ 8:18 pm

    Welcome to the club, friend.

    It will keep you warm at night. Ultimately it will kill you. Don’t give in.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  262. the administration is burning the country down, through it’s lawfare, academic, and cultural affiliates ‘fundamentally transforming it’ and the top men say ‘meh’

    narciso (732bc0)

  263. Hating Trump is fine. He is a dick. Pursuing criminal charges against any1 for that non event is an abuse of power for purpose of political gain. It is the very thing which should unite Conservatives. Why is this so hard?

    Smear, troll but do not use the criminal justice to destroy a man for that …. Mike Nifongish……

    Yeah, I agree with this.

    And I realize people are saying, “I’d never let him do this to my wife!” But we shouldn’t look at women in the workplace as someone we are protective of as we are of the people we love.
    Lewandowski shouldn’t have done what he did, and I wouldn’t shed a tear if he were fired. But Michelle Fields embarrassed a lot of people who believed her over statement and I think they should be more willing to call her out for filing charges.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  264. Responding to ducks quacking on the village green is not too much to ask … it’s stupid.

    nk (dbc370)

  265. So now RKS compares Michelle Fields to Crystal Mangum.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  266. If Trump ripped off innocent people and they can prove it I have no problem with them pursuing any and all appropriate courses of action.

    What I do have a problem with is Hillary! being preezy.

    Steve57 (10097b)

  267. RKS, I don’t know you. I know you had a mother. I don’t know if you have (or have had) aunts, or grandmothers, or nieces, or sisters, or daughters. I have no idea what they might have meant to you.

    Whoever your most beloved woman is, though: Would you like her roughed up and bruised? And then compared — by you — to a perjurist crack-whores, for failing to accept that in simpering silent submission?

    Feel some shame, man. Be a human being. Stop with the smears — even if you think the victim is yelping too loudly, just have the simple human decency to shut up before you embarrass yourself further.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  268. Also, I am not pro-Trump but I have no problem with most Trump voters. But then, I’m married to an Obama voter and someone who will vote for Hillary (or Bernie). So I don’t have to agree with someone to respect them.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  269. I like seeing Patterico expressing his opinion on his own blog in the comments section. This is not the public square; it is a party that Patterico is putting on. We are lucky, any of us, to be welcomed here.

    Patterico is not very judgmental about who attends this salon, unlike many other internet sites.

    There are many things Patterico says with which I agree. There are some things I do not. But when I needed help, he was there, without really knowing me. Because it was the right thing to do.

    As for Trump, a recent essay struck a chord with me. The author wrote that Trump sounds like one of his undergraduate students trying to BS his way through an oral assignment without having read the material. And that is spot on.

    Simon Jester (72ec8b)

  270. Plus I have always enjoyed posts by elissa and mayBee. Best wishes to you both.

    Simon Jester (72ec8b)

  271. Hey, Simon Jester. Good to see you!

    mayBee (b709ed)

  272. #262 Old Reader,

    You’re lying. I never called Trump a Nazi.
    You’re just making it up.
    By the way, if I were to guess that you’re a former Ron Paul supporter, would I be right?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  273. @ mayBee (#270): We disagree very strongly over whether Ms. Fields has been truthful or overwrought. But I understand, and fully accept, and bless you for the fact that, you’re not “pro-Trump.” I’m trying now to distinguish between Trump supporters — mere “Trumpkins” — and Trump shills. I don’t put you in either category.

    I do have a problem with Trump voters — past and, potentially, future — because they’re voting for an unfit con-man who bears no resemblance to a conservative or a Republican, who is reflexively dishonest, and who’s perhaps one one-hundredth as competent as a businessman as he pretends to be, while in his real job as a reality TV star.

    I see holes in your logic. I see a battery on the video that you apparently think too trivial to be worth noting (regardless of the law). But I’m not hostile to you. I misunderstood you to have simply ignored (rather than to have left unread) what I had linked about the “thrown to the ground” red herring; so thank you for correcting my misimpression.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  274. Bah. Sorry, mangled that badly.

    I misunderstood you to have simply ignored (rather than to have been unpersuaded by) what I had linked about the “thrown to the ground” red herring ….”

    That was what I intended to write.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  275. “You’re lying. I never called Trump a Nazi.” I didn’t mean to say you actually called him a Nazi in this thread or otherwise and apologies if that is how it read. I suppose I should have said “Trump-haters” rather than “you.”

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  276. Ron Paul?

    I have always respected Ron Paul because I thought he was principled but I never supported him for president. I supported Bush when I was a young voter in 2000 and Romney in 2008 and 2012 (I hated McCain but held my nose and voted for him).

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  277. It’s not quite a red herring, Beldar, Fields claimed she was almost thrown to ground but managed to keep her balance, and that she was pulled to the ground, etc, and that she was “shaken” from the incident. But she never claimed she actually fell to the ground, but oddly that is how her buddy Terris words it on the audio recording, something like “dang, he just threw you down.” Her claims are obviously exaggerate what happened.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  278. Beldar,

    Way back when Trump first started his apprentice show, I sort of scuffed at it–I did not have a very high opinion of Trump’s business skill at the time and I recall the show marketing him as some sort of business wizard. But it’s clear he has made a lot of money, turned a million dollar loan into billions of dollars. He was a multi-billionaire before he ever inherited any significant wealth (that was the late 1990s when his father died and was probably 100 million or so). I think of true business genius as the great investors–the ones that understand what makes a good company and a bad company and where value is (Seth Klarman, Warren Buffet, etc). The best marketer of this generation is obviously Steve Jobs. Lots of kinds of business smarts. But Trump was obviously very good at making money in real estate, particularly in his early career. It’s nothing to scuff at. Of course, he presents an inflated view of himself, whether it’s genuine or not.

    Old Reader (08f24c)

  279. He just looks disheveled and gawky.

    I continue to believe the main reason Ted Cruz hasn’t grabbed the enthusiasm of more people — even though I think he’s easily the best candidate for the presidency — is due to his lack of external appeal, meaning his having a face and voice that, as the saying goes, only a mother could love.

    However, I don’t know why hideous Hillary has maintained so much traction through the years, since she is the opposite of viscerally pleasing or charismatic. Politicians, therefore, who also exploit their liberal, touchy-feely sentiments apparently brings comfort to quite a few people.

    If it weren’t for the horrible Clintons and the dynamics surrounding leftist politicians in general (eg, the current tenant of the White House is polling better in Gallup, etc, during his last year in office than his Republican predecessor did), I could say rather smugly that Trump is out of contention and needs to take his big ego and Nixonian qualities back to the boardroom. But the fact the US, at the same time, is well on its way to going through 12 solid years of corrosive, corrupting leftism from the Oval Office does make me want to hurl.

    Left-leaning bias as the default condition in a large portion of the public in the 21st century throughout the US and the Western World in general has to be faced and accepted—albeit like a person unshackling himself from denial and coming to grips with the fact that, yes, he has a case of cancer, so accept it and try not to suffer more than necessary.

    Mark (ec0588)

  280. If Cruz is right that he’s a “natural born” citizen then so would Obama even if he was born in Kenyan. Nobody ever made that argument during the whole “birther” controversy,

    Um, yes, they did. You either weren’t paying attention or you have a very short memory.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  281. By the way, if it makes anyone any happier: I would prefer it if I never hear of Fields or Lewandowski or the Jupiter Incident again.

    What we should be talking about is:

    What issues separate the candidates, what solutions do the candidates bring to those issues, and which candidates seem best prepared for the job.

    These are interconnected. A candidate who has a better grasp of what people want to change, but who has hopeless and unworkable solutions, or who is demonstrably unsuited to lead a party or a nation isn’t necessarily a better choice than a strong leader with good judgement who disagrees with me on some set of issues.

    But we aren’t even there. We are arguing about trivia and personalities. And it seems we are doing it because one of the candidates can’t really deal with anything other than that.

    Maybe that’s enough to go on then.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  282. Do the police there realize that Fields accused the NYPD of beating her with billy clubs? You’d have to believe Fields on that one too if you believe her on the Lewandowski thing. Which might mean you are anti-cop.

    Jcurtis (74fc02)

  283. This should never have gone to a criminal case. Trump and Lewandowski should have apologized.
    But they slammed the door on it, and doubled down with a “nuts and sluts” attack on Fields.

    Oh, well. Lewandowski will not suffer any serious damage from this, at least not legally. Fields will likely be crushed by the Trump machine.

    And all it may cost “good brain” is the nomination. Brilliant.

    Evan3457 (057459)

  284. Being anti-NYPD is not being anti-cop. Have you heard the expression “Set a thief to catch a thief”? It’s the NYPD’s recruitment policy.

    nk (dbc370)

  285. “I suppose I should have said “Trump-haters” rather than “you.””

    – Old Reader

    Didn’t Christoph pull this exact same stunt under his last handle? What was that handle, again?

    Leviticus (814157)

  286. RKS-

    I agree it should not have involved a criminal charge,

    I also think it should have been resolved with L saying something like:
    “The event was over, I wanted Mr. Trump to get on to his next responsibility, I’m sorry if my action came across as more forceful than intended.”

    But he didn’t. It was L and Trump who started the “I’ll destroy you for daring to get in our way” game. It was L. and Trump and their supporters who said Fields was lying since she had not filed a police report. There is no way for Fields to have any redress through civil means. Yes, the criminal court system should not be needed to enforce manners,
    but grown men shouldn’t need the criminal court system to tell them to be gentlemen and not brutes.

    MD soon back in Philly (d058fe)

  287. Hi elissa! I’ve missed your comments. I hope you’ll drop by on occasion.

    I disagree with several of your points above. The problem with the Corey-Fields thing was the Trump campaign response. If it was trivial, which I think it was, like the non-call in the UW elite eight victory, then the Trump campaign should have acknowledged a little tug and got on with life. But they didn’t. Knowing her story was true, they nevertheless attacked her, calling her a liar and a publicity hound. And the business with Cruz and the claims of infidelity occurred in the context of a series of threats by Trump to do just that, and it is baseless. To point this out to partisans who latch onto the lie and then broadcast it on this site is important. The only thing I regret is that they are allowed to repeat their obviously baseless views endlessly, as though repetition lent credence. Which leads to an equally endless rebuttal. Neither of which are interesting. But to fail to respond is to appear to acquiesce.

    This issue really isn’t the mindless partisan support of Trump, but Trump campaign’s response to these challenges. Attacking the victim, broadcasting lies, these are not the actions of someone who is prepared to be our president.

    BobStewartatHome (7b7fb2)

  288. I rather fear the following, by the way: What the GOP Should Know NOW About Warren G. Harding’s Presidential Win in 1920

    Why fear it? That worked out very well for both the GOP and the country. It unexpectedly gave us one of the best presidents the USA has ever had.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  289. Quote: “as though repetition lent credence.”

    Joseph Goebbels showed the world how well that works. You can see here the same sort of minions, using the same sort of tactics for the same sort of candidate.

    “It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”
    ― Joseph Goebbels

    Luke Stywalker (93ee9b)

  290. But to fail to respond is to appear to acquiesce.
    Very nice way of putting it.

    MD soon back in Philly (d058fe)

  291. this is me failing to respond

    do i look like i’m acquiescing to you

    no i do not in fact i am look very defiant you can see it by how i narrow my gaze and hold your eye contact until it makes you feel uncomfortable and you look away

    happyfeet (831175)

  292. this is such nakedly revolting, nakedly obnoxious pandering i don’t even know what to say to this

    it’s one of those things where you’re scared to make eye contact with anyone and you wonder why you didn’t just stay

    home

    happyfeet (831175) — 3/11/2016 @ 8:45 pm

    Luke Stywalker (93ee9b)

  293. “But to fail to respond is to appear to acquiesce.”

    Which is the rationale which explains Fields accepting the thug and liar Lewandowski’s, backed by Trump, challenge to file charges. Her employer, Breitbart, has been very busy licking Trump’s Guccis since day one and tossed her under the Trump defamation and slander steamroller without hesitation. The WaPo defended Ben Terris eyewitness account and had the pleasure of publishing the exoneration with a nice close.

    Trump stands by his man. “Mr. Lewandowski is absolutely innocent of this charge. He will enter a plea of not guilty and looks forward to his day in court,” campaign spokeswoman Hope Hicks said in a statement.

    “He is completely confident that he will be exonerated.”

    Of the crime. His guilt on the lie has already been established.

    Rick Ballard (edb5cf)

  294. MD, I love the irony of 291 vs. 293.

    Simon Jester (2708f4)

  295. Some of this may have been covered in one or several of the almost 300 preceding comments… but here goes:

    The press should never be trusted to accurately report on things related to science or law. Both topics involve too much detail for the reporters and editors to handle with their thin veneer of actual knowledge.

    Trump acts like a thug because he looks at the incumbent and sees how well it works… He has used similar tactics in some of his business activities, so he is familiar. Why would he abandon a working system?

    And the bonus is that this has given us another week of useless turmoil in which none of the candidates have been called upon to address actual issues, and tell us what thier plan might be for resolve problems, going forward.

    Gramps (39f97a)

  296. But Michelle Fields embarrassed a lot of people who believed her over statement and I think they should be more willing to call her out for filing charges.

    mayBee:

    Bruises.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  297. Already mostly healed? Self-inflicted? Applied by a boyfriend or a convenient WaPo accomplice?

    ropelight (5449bb)

  298. Do the police there realize that Fields accused the NYPD of beating her with billy clubs? You’d have to believe Fields on that one too if you believe her on the Lewandowski thing. Which might mean you are anti-cop.

    How do you know they didn’t? Why do you think they didn’t? Do you doubt that cops routinely commit such crimes and get away with it?

    Milhouse (87c499)

  299. I’d like to hear an explanation of how those bruises got there. I mean, we’ve all seen the video and it is clear that she was grasped on the upper arm. Or is there some dispute that it is an optical illusion or she has such short arms that they end 5 inches below her shoulder? So if she was bruised by this, shouldn’t those bruises be, say, on the upper arm where she was touched? How would the WaPo reporter (who is a buddy of her BF and just “happened” to be there) be able to see the bruises, as he claimed? She had on long sleeves and didn’t disrobe on the spot, did she?

    In a miracle of science though, when she finally got around to providing photographic “evidence” of her injury, those bruises are now on her LOWER arm, near her wrist. Perhaps she didn’t count on there being a video, where her crossed-legged stance on the bunched up carpet couldn’t possible explain why any touch whatsoever could have made her stumble. At any rate, her story, as presented, is a series of lies, based on a nugget of truth.

    http://gotnews.com/breaking-emails-breitbart-prove-no-michelle-fields-bruises-grabgate-standwithcorey/

    prowlerguy (fa36d8)

  300. Donald Trump’s Poll Numbers Collapse as General Election Looms

    The Post/ABC News survey found three-quarters of women held an unfavorable view of Trump — and that was before his campaign manager was charged with battery against a female reporter and Trump proposed “some form of punishment” for women who terminate a pregnancy should abortion be outlawed. An NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll the same month found 70 percent of women nationally held an unfavorable opinion of Trump.

    When the postmortems are written for the reality campaign, remember it wasn’t Fields or even the stupid Todd Akins style remarks which precipitated the crowing rooster’s slide down the dung hill. He was on the way down even before the #NeverTrump movement began. I would argue he was never actually “up” based upon the polling he used to love to crow about, just as I will argue media knowingly promoted him via free exposure with the certainty they would be able to help him self destruct after doing a fair amount of damage to the party which media, in general, opposes.

    Rick Ballard (edb5cf)

  301. and trump knows just where to touch you and he knows just what to prove

    he knows when to pull you closer and he knows when to let you loose

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 3/28/2016 @ 12:30 pm

    Luke Stywalker (93ee9b)

  302. On occasion Simon, he can make some quips that all one can do is smile, even if in spite of himself.

    You know, even if Fields faked the bruises, that simply adds wrongdoing to her, and does nothing to exonerate K.

    We know that maybe everybody can’t be right,
    but everybody can be wrong.
    K and Trump are wrong.

    MD soon back in Philly (d058fe)

  303. Anyway, Israel used to (still does?) bulldoze the family homes of suicide bombers,

    No, it did not. It destroys the terrorists’ own homes, on much the same legal basis as US authorities confiscate property used for a crime. If their families also happen to live there then they inevitably suffer from it, but there is no legal basis for punishing them in any way.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  304. Well, MD, repeating lies enough times creates a kind of truth. And the liars count on “honesty exhaustion,” when people just give up. If you think about it, that is precisely Trump’s overall strategy, but we see it in miniature here.

    After people give up, the liars continue to repeat the lies. They don’t stop.

    So we end up in the place, for example, where bruises on a reporter are (i) not considered a big deal and (ii) are seriously thought of as being self-inflicted.

    This is the danger of letting shills repeat their drumbeat propagandizing.

    The only solution? Force people to think of the situation “on the other foot” politically, and see if they feel as strongly. Because they don’t. Hold the shills responsible for their complete and utter hypocrisy.

    This is the “right of center” version of the Left’s usual self-delusion of hearts versus brains.

    Simon Jester (2708f4)

  305. That woman and her WaPo accomplice made a mountain out of a mole hill, and the anti-Trump media and their GOP fellow travelers rushed to spread the false narrative. It’s another attempt by the political elite to retain control over the candidate selection process and disenfranchise the American voters.

    Even a caveman could see it.

    ropelight (5449bb)

  306. Lies? what lies?
    ropelight (86a284) — 3/31/2016 @ 9:23 am

    Luke Stywalker (93ee9b)

  307. What lies Luke?

    ropelight (5449bb)

  308. Which is exactly the point.
    ropelight (1ae4d6) — 3/23/2016 @ 7:47 pm

    Luke Stywalker (93ee9b)

  309. Ah, even a caveman could see it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8YBuwmtzYE

    Simon Jester (2708f4)

  310. True, Simon.
    Many of us were raised to have a respect for truth, and to acknowledge it when we are exposed to it,
    we don’t get the idea of people pushing a lie until it is believed, long after most of us have given up.
    Hence Jesus talking about the children of this world being more shrewd than the children of light.

    The devil already has a pretty good idea who wins, but he will never give up until he is made to.
    Likewise his children on earth.

    MD soon back in Philly (d058fe)

  311. mayBee:

    Bruises.

    Patterico (86c8ed) — 4/1/2016 @ 7:39 am

    Yes, it was bad. I’m not defending Lewandoski. That still doesn’t mean she represented what really happened in her account. I wrote above what would have been a fair representation. He lied about not touching her, but he also knew he hadn’t thrown anybody practically to the ground that night.

    If you don’t want to be part of the story and all you want is an apology, you have to make room for the person you want to apologize to feel like they are only apologizing for what they actually did.
    You know how it is to be over-accused by someone other people are vouching for.

    mayBee (b709ed)

  312. Luke, I’m willing to read my previous comments and try to grasp the reason you note them, but you’re going to have to provide some better guidance as to their location – the identity of the thread would be helpful and a link would be even better.

    ropelight (5449bb)

  313. OCD?
    ropelight (d92a84) — 3/10/2016 @ 1:00 pm

    Luke Stywalker (93ee9b)

  314. Conspiracy theorists are so special. Breitbart and WaPo teaming up to concoct a story on the fly that is supported by the video evidence.

    MayBee and Elissa don’t deserve the condescending sneering, even if you don’t agree with them.

    JD (a6bc68)

  315. i think cupcake needs to suck it up

    she’s coming off as kind of a whiner

    happyfeet (831175) — 3/10/2016 @ 2:47 pm

    Luke Stywalker (93ee9b)

  316. No, JD, not Breitbart and the WaPo – Michelle Fields and Ben Terris. One lied and the other swore to it.

    ropelight (5449bb)

  317. …..
    No, you can’t use that boogeyman to frighten low info voters away from Trump. ….
    ropelight (d93310) — 3/17/2016 @ 4:59 am

    Luke Stywalker (93ee9b)

  318. ropelight, so you admitted that low info voters have flocked to Trump?
    Bet you’d like a do-over, eh? (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  319. 52% of white males view Trump negatively. That’s his best group.

    Yet his core of true believers will troop to the polls like the lemmings they are, insisting that the cliff is really a pathway to heaven and that there is no fall.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  320. The reporterette laid hands on Trump first, a man with Secret Service protection. Cory moved her away from a man that she should not have touched. Charge her.

    Smarty (372abe)

  321. JD, see what I mean about folks repeating Narrative.

    And they will keep doing it, even if the video and audio evidence doesn’t agree with them.

    Over and over again.

    Just like that lying braggart Trump.

    Simon Jester (2708f4)

  322. The reporterette laid hands on Trump first, a man with Secret Service protection. Cory moved her away from a man that she should not have touched. Charge her.

    Didn’t happen. Your man Trump is lying, as usual.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  323. The reporterette laid hands on Trump first, a man with Secret Service protection.

    Version number 5, never mind that the SS man right there did nothing. Maybe he asked Cory to do his job for him.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  324. Corey Saves Christmas! the headlines read

    and everyone agreed it was the finest Christmas they could remember

    there were puddings and dancing ponies and fizzy-pops and lovely ladies

    and the turkeys were moist and delicious, basted just perfectly

    and the kids laughed and laughed til they tuckered themselves out and fell down in the purloined guises of peaceful sleeping beautiful angels

    the world was at peace and love was in the hearts of all

    silent night

    holy night

    all is calm

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  325. 52% of white males view Trump negatively. That’s his best group.

    Yet his core of true believers will troop to the polls like the lemmings they are, insisting that the cliff is really a pathway to heaven and that there is no fall.

    But he’s only losing NOW because the establishment isn’t behind him. They’re working against him and they’re to blame.

    Yes, this is the same corrupt establishment that the Trump supporters want to toss into a live volcano. But apparently these establishment people are supposed to willingly go along with their destruction. AND they’re the same corrupt bastards that the Trump supporters want to help them win.

    Even though they’re corrupt and evil and awful.

    Being a Trump supporter means you never have to make a lick of sense. It’s one of the benefits you get. Trump approved.

    SteveMG (0f086c)

  326. “There used to be consequences to protesting. There are none anymore. These people are so bad for our country, you have no idea, folks.”

    Milhouse (87c499)

  327. Unless some protester assaults someone or damages public property or trespasses on or damages private property the only “consequence” should be being ignored. Protesting is not only not bad for the country it’s almost obligatory for an American. It’s in our blood, we started with protests against England after all.

    Imam Hoagie ™ (e4fcd6)

  328. Still waiting to hear how those bruises!!!! magically moved down her arm. I imagine this will be ignored, like everything else that does promote the “Cruz is honest, Trump is sleaze” narrative.

    And if unwanted touching is a crime, then lock that bitch up, because the same video shows her hold the arm of Trump. Sauce, goose, gander.

    prowlerguy (fa36d8)

  329. Sorry, Milhouse I just noticed your quotes. You were being snarky and I missed it. But what idiot were you quoting?

    Imam Hoagie ™ (e4fcd6)

  330. Hahahaha I’ll give you three guesses, and the first two don’t count.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  331. Kevin M – If he is view SOOOO negatively by EVERYONE, then why has be beaten the snot out of every single other candidate with actual voters?

    prowlerguy (fa36d8)

  332. So Imam, can you show me the leaders of the Occupy protests that were jailed or even arrested for trespassing? I don’t know of a single one that had the required permit to camp on public (and in some cases, private) land. We don’t even need to get into the rapes and other assorted crimes that were condoned and ignored by the police. Can you show me any arrests after illegally blocking major highways? For throwing red paint all over an auditorium and the other attendees? For the violence at BLM “protests”? For nonstop threats of violence if we don’t nominate a person of the left’s choosing? I haven’t but a smattering except those who physically resisted once the were being rousted (weeks later), and I am sick of having to worry about if I can get to work or safely go about my business because of some left wing mob that intends to disrupt my day for their own amusement (and paycheck from Soros).

    That’s what is being talked about, not simple protesting. We have reached a point where illegal actions, up to and including violence, is allowed as long as the “right” things are being protested. But go on and pretend you thought that Trump was saying that people carrying signs peacefully should be arrested. I’m sure it makes you feel better that way.

    prowlerguy (fa36d8)

  333. Primary voters are not the same as general election voters.

    Never have been. Two different animals.

    Especially less than 40% of primary voters.

    Of course, when Trump gets shellacked it’ll be the fault of the “establishment”. Not him.

    SteveMG (b8239e)

  334. Ron and Rand Paul supporters used to put me on edge. Now I dream of having those irrational libertarians instead of the venal trump supporters that crush most rational discussion.

    Steven Malynn (4bc33a)

  335. Ron and Rand Paul supporters used to put me on edge.

    Don’t you think some of those supporters are now supporting Trump? A bit of an overlap? The same anti-Washington/anti-establishment “burn it all down” type view?

    In any case, the hardcore supporters of any candidate (sports teams, hobby, whatever) tend to be insufferable. But the Trump legions are at the top of the list.

    With the libertarian types you could discuss policy to some degree. Philosophy, ideology, history. Something. With the Trump brigades it’s all Trump. There’s nothing to debate. A lot of nihilism among the Trump crowd.

    SteveMG (b8239e)

  336. “If he is view SOOOO negatively by EVERYONE, then why has be beaten the snot out of every single other candidate with actual voters?”

    – prowlerguy

    Because people are reluctant to self-report as “Morons” to pollsters, and because “Moron” cuts across all demographic categories.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  337. Because he hasn’t.
    It’s like vanilla being the most popular ice cream. Everyone you ask has their own favorite flavor, like “Orange Custard Chocolate Chip” was one at UW.
    But all of those zillions split the “not-vanilla” vote.

    When it gets down to vanilla vs chocolate moose tracks, and no other choices…

    MD soon back in Philly (d058fe)

  338. That is true, SteveMG, but we aren’t in the general election yet, are we? It is also true that people responding to pollsters don’t always end up voting, and those pollsters (much like weathermen) continue to get race after race after race wrong. But like a good soldier of the GOPe, you parrot them as if Ted Cruz had sterling ratings (Hint: He’s at 50-58% unfavorable depending on the poll) So you can believe that over half of all people hate Trump all you want, but your team has been insisting that Trump can’t get more that 30%. Then it was 35%. Now he is getting over 40% (37% for the entire primary season). But your team will continue to claim “Just one more state will sink him. One more made-up scandal will doom him. One more dishonest out-of-context quote will surely allow our anointed one, Ted, to ascend to the throne.” But time after time, when that doesn’t happen, there is cursing and name-calling from the Cruz supporters. Nonstop. Just like your masters at the RNC want. Cruz has no mathmatical chance of winning the nomination. He’s only staying in the hopes that he can scrape just enough votes out to force a contested convention. Where his masters will hand the nomination to Ryan. And Ted will get his reward for doing his duty to the party.

    Ahh, Leviticus. Lacking in any meaningful response, you choose to insult. Lack of credible argument noted, and I accept your surrender.

    prowlerguy (fa36d8)

  339. MD – In case you’ve missed it, we are down to two (like Kasich is going to get a single more delegate). And he is STILL winning. STILL expanding his lead in delegates. What’s your next excuse?

    prowlerguy (fa36d8)

  340. And guys, you’ve had plenty of time to go to the RNC and find out what the scripted response is to “How did her bruises move?” MD, you’re a doctor. Care to explain how minor trauma in the upper arm can produce perfect little finger shaped bruises by the wrist?

    prowlerguy (fa36d8)

  341. They only moved in the minds of Trumpalookas.
    They only had to travel a very short distance.
    In the very little minds of Trumpalulus.

    nk (dbc370)

  342. prowlerguypapertigerpinandpuller, who will you blame win Trump gets wiped out in November?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  343. (LOL) “when” not win

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  344. I already said I don’t care if Fields faked her bruises,
    two parties can both be wrong,
    what L. did and lied about and what Trump lied about is already clear,
    and doubling down on a lie may be the new norm for politicians, but not for one I will vote for.

    And we’ll see what happens at the next event in Wisconsin. If you would be fair, you would acknowledge that many candidates received early votes as if they were still in the race.

    If Trump can beat Cruz in WI, in spite of Walker’s endorsement of Cruz, then you will have something to brag about,

    but that will mean zero regarding how bad a president Trump will be if he gets there.

    MD soon back in Philly (d058fe)

  345. 233.The simple way to understand the energy involved is this. She had some kinetic energy when walking: 1/2 * mass * velocity-squared. if 130 lbs and 3mph, that’s 1/2 * 60kg * (1.32m/s)^2 = 52 joules. When stopped, she has lost all of that, so AT LEAST that much energy needed to be applied to stop her motion. And that’s the energy of a 56g tennis ball going 96 mph. Which you would feel.

    This computation is meaningless. Some of the energy is transferred to the other body. You should be looking at force.

    James B. Shearer (0f56fb)

  346. Physicists should also not forget to calculate the hot air emanating from Donnie’s mouth, as well as the wind resistance provided by his Orange Toupee.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  347. dear diary today i fakered up some bruises cause corey was mean i HATE him

    they look just like his fingers I’m gonna make him go to JAIL cause he tried to mess with me

    nobody messes with me especially not stupid Corey

    he’s just a whatever

    if he comes near me again I’ll SCREAM (been practicing)

    ooh and if he tries again to almost knock me down to the floor (like a dog) I’ll just fall down and then he’ll be SORRY and probably go to JAIL some more and I’ll be all hahaha bet you wish you could have some tasty tacos COREY but you can’t you have to eat stinky jail food

    god i hate him

    happyfeet (831175)

  348. Here be dat video re-leased by da Joo-peter poh-lees. http://patterico.com/2016/03/30/sniveling-coward-that-reporter-could-have-had-a-bomb/ Lewandowski grabbed her by da fore-arm. Dat’s like dat part of de arm dat’s by da rist. That “upper arm” horse-pucky was made up by the Trumpacuckoos.

    nk (dbc370)

  349. someday i hope someone grabs him by HIS stupid forearm see how he likes it

    he such a

    craphole

    happyfeet (831175)

  350. Oh, don’t be such a girl, Michelle.

    nk (dbc370)

  351. For all the #nevertrump acolytes, a subscription may be in order:

    http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/poor-me-mag-3-michelle-fields-i-ve-fallen-i-can-t-get-up-t17768.html

    xsssx (f03a4c)

  352. Which raises the question…
    have Patterico and Dustin ever been seen together at the same place and time????

    Dustin is much better looking than I am, based on pictures I saw on a site trying to upend his life for criticizing an evil man.

    Patterico (86c8ed) — 3/31/2016 @ 8:11 pm

    Ha, those idiots did a lot of things that upset my family, but picking flattering pictures from 2004 to dox me with, from when I was in good shape and younger, was amusing in a way.

    But no, I’m no Patterico. I don’t know how folks can keep up with a political blog in this dark age we live in without going crazy. Much easier to be in the peanut gallery!

    Dustin (2a8be7)


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