Would It Even Make A Difference To His Supporters If Trump’s Immigration Policy Was Just The Candidate Paying Lip Service To Get Elected?
[guest post by Dana]
I’m not convinced it would.
I heard Ted Cruz interviewed today and he referred to a story about Donald Trump having met with the NYT editorial board last month. The meeting apparently involved a portion of an interview that is off the record where Trump suggested that he doesn’t really believe in his immigration policy and the deportation of 11 million illegal immigrants, but is instead playing politics and saying what he needs to say in order to get elected.
“I will say there was a very disturbing story that broke today. That apparently there is a secret tape that The New York Times editorial board has of Donald Trump saying that he doesn’t believe what he’s saying on immigration,” Cruz said. “That all of his promises to secure the border are not real and if he’s president he doesn’t intend to do what he says.”
As a result, Cruz, and now Marco Rubio, are both asking Trump to give his permission for the NYT to release the tape. As it is off-the-record, the NYT would need his approval to release it.
“I call on Donald, ask The New York Times to release the tape. And do so today before the Super Tuesday primary,” Cruz told reporters. “There are one of two instances. It is either false. If Donald didn’t say that to The New York Times he deserves to have this cleared up. And releasing the tape can clear it up. The alternative is that it is true,” Cruz added. “He recently said he loves the poorly educated. Well, I hope it’s not the case that Donald Trump is telling The New York Times editorial board that he is deliberately misleading the voters and he has no intention of doing anything he’s saying right now.”
“The voters deserve to know if he says something different when he’s talking to The New York Times than he does when he’s talking to the voters and we deserve to know before Super Tuesday,” the Texas senator continued.
This weekend, NYT columnist Gail Collins offered this speculation about Trump:
The most optimistic analysis of Trump as a presidential candidate is that he just doesn’t believe in positions, except the ones you adopt for strategic purposes when you’re making a deal. So you obviously can’t explain how you’re going to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants, because it’s going to be the first bid in some future monster negotiation session.
Coincidentally, Collins happened to be present at the January 5 meeting with Trump and the editorial board.
And according to BuzzFeed Editor-in-Chief Ben Smith:
Sources familiar with the recording and transcript — which have reached near-mythical status at the Times — tell me that the second sentence is a bit more than speculation. It reflects, instead, something Trump said about the flexibility of his hardline anti-immigration stance.
Question: Would it even matter to Trump supporters if any of this were true? I’m inclined to think it wouldn’t. Not really. Why would this matter when so many other negative revelations about Trump haven’t caused him to lose any support? But, given that his hard-line immigration stance is the lifeblood of his campaign, without it, what does he really have?
Trump supporters have been unshakable and loyal to a fault, a really big fault, and if this story is true yet doesn’t make them scurry to another candidate, nothing will. Am I right??
–Dana
Can things get any crazier??
Dana (86e864) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:28 pmtrump’s signature policy is the wall not mass deportation
how many illegals is harvardtrash ted gonna deport lol
happyfeet (831175) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:31 pmOf course he also could have been lying to the NYT. But I’ve been convinced for some time now that he was never serious about mass deportations. His supporters have bonded to him in a very personal way and are literally incapable of believing he could be faking much of what attracted them to him in the first place.
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:33 pmhf, the wall is Cruz’s policy, which he was pushing years before Trump got interested in it.
Milhouse (87c499) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:33 pmNobody was attracted to him because of deportations? Really?
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:35 pmIf Donald Trump were to get on all the alphabet networks at the same time and declare there will be no wall and there will be no deportations, the Trumpsters would turn to us and call us liars, and would still follow Trump over a societal cliff.
John Hitchcock (f3ad73) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:36 pmjust like with all the fans of tapperslut at cnn what came out of the woodwork this morning
again you see the eagerness of harvardtrash republicans like ted cruz to ally themselves with harvardtrash media like the new york times to take down the Republican frontrunner
i see who you are
happyfeet (831175) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:37 pmWhen a civilization is dying the leader it wants is not the best diagnostician but the hospice doctor with the best palliatives and bedside manner.
nk (dbc370) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:41 pmSo far, the story is nothing but some vague claims by a source we often doubt, the NYT.
However, for the sake of argument, let’s assume it’s true. That begs the question of “why”? Why on earth would a candidate, even off the record, hand that kind of ammo to the NYT?
Of course, I’d be appalled if it’s true, but I’d be even more appalled at the sheer stupidity than the betrayal of a policy that I care deeply about.
I certainly second Cruz’s call for Trump to release it.
Arizona CJ (da673d) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:51 pmWe’ve this same conversation about Obamites.
Tell me lies, tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies
Remember?
nk (dbc370) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:53 pm#7
Strange that the harvardtrash media gives like 50% more time in these debates to Trump than Cruz.
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:54 pmthis post is no good Dana – is a pooper post!
oh my goodness you forgotted to quote the most importantest part
in your first link – where the whole story started – the one poor desperate harvardtrash ted seized on:
so in other words Mr. The Donald knows he has to negotiate with sleazy open borders sluts like greased-up stripper Marco Rubio and Meghan’s coward daddy, so he’s staking out a maximally extreme negotiating position now for so he can get the best deal for America
I applaud this, me personally
Mr. The Donald you ok in my book mister
here you can have half my pop tart
happyfeet (831175) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:54 pmArizona CJ,
Perhaps Trump said to reassure his NY friends that he’s still one of them at heart? Don’t worry, I haven’t lost my New York values. I just have to play like I have for the rubes. So do I have your vote??
Dana (86e864) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:54 pmhsppyfeet,
Believe what you want. I don’t trust the NYT and I don’t trust Donald Trump. They have both proven to be untrustworthy on any number of occasions. Of course this is all speculative. What I’m most interested in, however, is if you believe, if the story is true, that it will move the needle with regard to his supporters?
IOW, is there anything Trump could be found out to have done, short of hurting children, that would cause his supporters to abandon him?
Dana (86e864) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:58 pmThere was tons of evidence and truths hidden during BO’s campaign/tour….People don’t want the truth. Can’t handle the tough truth. They want the fantasy that America will be great… win win win…. The work that needs to be done to achieve reward is not be easy. Trump voters want the easy way out.
Only Ted Cruz is tough truth….. Tough truth is what this country needs but can’t understand.
jrt for Cruz (bc7456) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:02 pmDana if the people closest to the actual recordings are saying that Mr. Trump told the NYT that he understands that his positions are an opening negotiating position, then that’s important
(for one thing it undercuts any sleazy harvardtrash Benji Sasse-style insinuation that Mr. Trump is an authoritarian – authoritarians don’t negotiate)
but most importantly we should note that poor desperate harvardtrash ted is obviously leaving that part out so he can sleazily cast aspersions
after all, he read the same article i did
the one you linked
happyfeet (831175) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:03 pmNew York Times values.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:04 pmOf course you’re right.
The Trumpsters are voting for a made-for-TV character. They are voting for the Trump “brand,” on which all his frauds depend. In many respects like Obama voters were voting for a David Axelrod media creation. And voting to “Make America Great Again” is no different than voting for Hope and Change.
Trump was pro-amnesty, pro-illegal immigration until five minutes ago, when he had to change his tune to win the GOP nomination. But the reason he’s more acceptable to the GOP establishment than Cruz is that they know Cruz means it. Trump is just saying what he needs to say to move to the next stage. Which is exactly why Democrats prefer him as well; they know he has not principles.
How many times does Trump have to brag that he’s the ultimate establishment insider who can get along with anyone, like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, and the Clintons before the message sinks in. He can get along with anyone because he doesn’t believe in anything except Donald Trump and his bank account. He has liberal impulses his whole life, and they’re still on display. Trump’s impulses led him to proclaim the exact opposite of what he’s saying he believes now. So how hard is to understand that he’d go into an off-the-record NYT editorial board meeting and confide he doesn’t really believe it now. But he doesn’t have any principles that require him to hold to the truth if the truth is in the way between him and power and self-aggrandizement.
I’ve long thought this analysis by Ace is spot on:
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/361790.php
He probably also told the NYT editorial board that he really does despise David Duke and the KKK, but saying so would alienate his knuckle-dragging “conservative” base.
Because he doesn’t think any more highly of you then he thought of those people he ripped off on real estate and real estate investing school scams.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:13 pm
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:22 pmRIP George Kennedy, 91
If Donald Trump were to get on all the alphabet networks at the same time and declare there will be no wall and there will be no deportations, the Trumpsters would turn to us and call us liars, and would still follow Trump over a societal cliff.
John Hitchcock (f3ad73) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:36 pm
I don’t think so,
if they heard it out of Donald’s own lips.
People are fed up,including with the media telling them what to think and manipulating the narrative.
many people heard Trump say what they thought was obvious but that nobody else would say loudly,
control the border, fer cryin’ out loud.
In the aftermath of that there is “nothing but lots of bickering and arguing trying to just make things confusing, and I don’t care what more you have to say!”
So i think if Trump himself and back-tracked on the simple claims he originally made, I think people would abandon him.
If we want people to act with insight and clarity, that is what we need to be about. Unfortunately few have been interested in that for a long time. Politics has become much more about “branding” and “messaging”, trying to build a perception in the mind of people to get their vote.
At some point there is a saturation of the messaging, and one either ignores it, or grabs onto something that appears simple enough to keep hold of.
the culture has long preferred the appearance not the the reality, that’s what they voted for in Obama, and that is what some will vote for with Trump.
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:26 pmNegotiation with who? I believe that he theoretically would have the power from day one to set mass deportations into motion without anyone needing to ratify it.
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:28 pmbut he’s not stupid Mr. A
he knows the deportations are a bargaining chip he can use to secure the border
jeeze
everyone except maybe greased up stripper Marco Rubio knows that
happyfeet (831175) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:30 pmAh but what if the NEXT time he said anything about it he did ANOTHER 180 and once again declared he’d would do mass deportations? I know of some frequent posters whose brains would just decide he never really said anything different.
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:32 pmBargain with who?
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:34 pmThen if it’s as if you say, happyfeet, we can expect Trump to give his permission to release the tape post-haste, yes? After all, you’d think he’d want head off rampant speculation, and also want to reassure his supporters.
Dana (86e864) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:35 pmyes yes Dana yes yes
happyfeet (831175) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:39 pmArizona CJ,
Perhaps Trump said to reassure his NY friends that he’s still one of them at heart? Don’t worry, I haven’t lost my New York values. I just have to play like I have for the rubes. So do I have your vote??
Dana, if that’s true, then he’s completely off his rocker. It’s a massive story, and a massive weapon against him, in return for support he could not possibly get – the chances of the NYT even being neutral with a R candidate in the general are zero. So are the odds of them sitting on a bombshell like this is claimed to be, off the record or not. It’s also worth noting that Trump has long had an adversarial relationship with the NYT.
Arizona CJ (da673d) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:41 pmDana asked:
What I’m most interested in, however, is if you believe, if the story is true, that it will move the needle with regard to his supporters?
My guess; it’d hurt him, but with some supporters, not all.
Arizona CJ (da673d) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:45 pmIs there any evidence at all, of there even having been a meeting, they endorsed kasich if you forgot.
narciso (732bc0) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:51 pmTomorrow is when rubber meets road. If only we could literally hoist Trump up a flagpole to see if anybody salutes.
nk (dbc370) — 2/29/2016 @ 7:02 pmOne of the hardest things to do in a fraud investigation is to get the victims to come forward. No one likes admitting, even to themselves, that the have been had. This is why psychic readers and free energy scams work. Only a fraction of the victims ever raise a fuss, so it’s easier to pay them off, close down the company, and reopen with a new name.
Random Numbers (b62152) — 2/29/2016 @ 7:10 pmSo the answer is no, you trust one of the leading journolisters, there’s even a name for what he does.
narciso (732bc0) — 2/29/2016 @ 7:12 pmSadly, I think you’re right. Trump is to the Republicans what Obama was to the democRats. And what Bernie is becoming to his supporters.
We’re not electing leaders, anymore, we’re just holding competitions to see which outsized personality has the bigger cult.
arik (02de93) — 2/29/2016 @ 7:24 pmHere in VA the RCP average has Rubio leading Cruz by 5 points, though both are well behind Trump. It probably doesn’t matter how I vote tomorrow but on the chance the attacks on Trump are having an effect I’ll probably vote for Rubio.
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 7:27 pmIts called Ben smithing, the way he downplays obvious ruling party foibles.
narciso (732bc0) — 2/29/2016 @ 7:31 pmThe Christian Post, one of the most widely read Christian websites, has taken a position on a candidate for the first time:
Donald Trump Is a Scam. Evangelical Voters Should Back Away
Trump wouldn’t be in his position without the (seemingly) implausible support he has gotten from evangelicals.
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 7:32 pmDana:
He hurt his own sick infant nephew by cancelLing his family’s health insurance, so even hurting children won’t change some people’s willingness to support Trump.
DRJ (15874d) — 2/29/2016 @ 7:58 pmGerald A,
I understand your feeling, but isn’t it also true that the polls have not been that reliable?
DRJ (15874d) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:01 pmDoes anyone in their right mind believe that Trump only wants to be a one term president? His immigration stands aren’t even controversial anymore. None of the establishment is trying to beat him up for being too tough on immigration. Why would he want to get trumped on immigration in 2020? You’ll be that much closer to a permanent white minority in 2020. If you think they’re motivated now, just wait and see what 2020 brings. It will be all about reversing demographic change and looming civil war.
Jcurtis (9a271b) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:05 pmThat article seems helpful, Gerald A.
MD not exactly in Philly (deca84) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:11 pmJcurtis, the author of this article doesn’t qualify as white. She also doesn’t qualify as male. My own lineage disqualifies me for white sheets and dunce-caps. And I’m working on bringing someone into the country that doesn’t have a drop of caucasian blood in her.
John Hitchcock (f3ad73) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:22 pmSome of Trump’s supporters aren’t die-hards. They’ll continue to peel off, but they are a minority of his supporters. I hope, but have no reason to believe, that there are some such among the readers here even if they aren’t commenting. But that’s just hopeful thinking on my part, and probably my host’s, and probably on the part of the other Trump skeptics and opponents who comment here.
Most of his supporters just want to break something and hurt someone. I get that; I don’t condemn their anger, but I do contend their spectacular absence of self-insight or -control.
ropelight & papertiger, who comment here, are examples of that. They’re not stupid. They’re suckers, and they’re the kind of sucker who actively encourages other suckers to be suckered along with them, because the only internal defense they have — the realization that decent people find their candidate repulsive on every level, and the shame that they ought feel for supporting someone so repulsive — has been overwhelmed by their anger to the point of complete suppression.
They’re masters of cognitive dissonance — boss level, which is to say, identical to Hillary supporters in that.
I pity them, and I resent them, and I’ve given up on them.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:34 pmThey were accurate in Iowa and New Hampshire, and I believe South Carolina.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:39 pm@ random numbers (#31), who wrote:
That’s spot on, and consistent with my personal professional experience in mass fraud cases.
Maybe if papertiger had run up $35,000 in credit card debt to Trump U instead of whatever he contributed to Trump’s campaign — before he came here to say, falsely and knowingly, that Trump is “self-funding” — he might have reached the point of admitting to himself that he’s been suckered.
But that’s not going to happen. Instead he’s still trying to lure other suckers into the abyss, because misery loves company.
We’d all be miserable under President Trump, but not all of us are going to be equally to blame for that.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:39 pmThe polls so far have been off by consistently more than what they all claim to be their margins of error.
But they’ve predicted that Trump would win four states, and he has indeed won three of those.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:40 pmI think you’re wrong about this Dana. Trump has a lot of star-struck followers, but I think the majority of his supporters are people who think immigration is the single most important issue facing America today. They will forgive Trump anything else, but if he goes back on deportation, they will have no more reason to support him.
Cugel (785576) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:41 pmNot that the jackals here give a crap about the truth one way or the other, as long as Cruz looks good and comes out on top, but to answer your question Dana, yes it would matter. But you didn’t really want such input, since you are “inclined to think” otherwise.
prowlerguy (3af7ff) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:43 pm@ Gerald A: Consider this:
There is indeed a decent chance that Rubio’s attacks — involving humor and spectacle and vulgarity (although Rubio’s the Boy Scout cracking jokes at the cathouse, rather than a customer) — will hurt Trump.
That doesn’t necessarily mean those attacks will help Rubio to the same degree. In fact, they probably won’t.
Rubio may have — and I hope he has — shaken loose some of the relatively small number of Trump supporters who aren’t pathologically committed to him, but of those, the ones who are serious about examining alternatives may, and should, pick someone who’s even more the polar opposite of Trump than Rubio could ever claim to be. That is to say, if they’re serious about picking a real conservative after waking up to the fact that Trump ain’t one, they may — and I submit, should — go to Cruz as the alternative.
Not because Cruz is as good a stand-up comedian. But because Cruz has won one of the four states that have voted so far, and because he’s going to win his home state (Texas), and because Rubio still hasn’t won any state anywhere outright, and is way, way behind (far outside claimed margins of error) in his home state, which won’t get to vote anyway for another two weeks.
You might feel strategic if you vote for Rubio, but you’ll feel righteous is you vote for Cruz, and it’s more likely to turn out to have been strategic three weeks from now.
Regardless, please do vote for someone other than Trump, and God bless you.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:47 pm@ prowlerguy (#47): I confess that when it comes to opposing Trump, I don’t mind being called a jackal. I just wish I had a larger pack of jackals helping me, because he’s a helluva water buffalo and is proving hard to bring down. He’s huge and hugely evil.
(That’s a carefully chosen word, “evil,” and I won’t back down from it for a moment. Con-men on the scale of Trump are rare in history, and his intrinsic evil, when the consequences of his scam are weighted, is unique in history. Neither Hitler, Stalin, nor Mao actually ended up doing much damage to the American political system, for example, and tens of millions of murders can be laid at their feet. The consequences of a Trump presidency could include that, or worse, but that’s still conjectural; the damage he’s done to the country already, though, isn’t, although it is still reparable.)
I don’t believe I’m a jackal when it comes to supporting Cruz, though. I can see principled arguments for other GOP candidates — Rubio, even Kasich or Carson — and I won’t snap or bite at any fellow conservative who chooses to cast a vote for one of them.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:53 pm@ Cugel: We know you’re wrong, because Donald Trump has already made clear that he’s in favor of open borders and lax immigration standards — before he started his current (spectacularly dishonest) run for president in this cycle.
If Trump’s hard-core supporters were shakeable, they’d have been shaken already. He’s on every side of every important issue, and he couldn’t keep his story straight if his life depended on it.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:55 pmThanks Beldar. I was including the Democrats in my observation, but thanks for the info. I usually look at the RCP average and the odds at 538.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:56 pmThose are my blasts of rhetoric for tonight, I’m going to bed so I can wake at dawn to see how long the line is at 7:00 a.m. of Texas voters who are eager to vote for Ted Cruz and against the pestilent Donald Trump.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:56 pmThe RCP average has Texas is too close to call for Cruz at this point, but 538 gives him an 88% chance.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:59 pmnight!
carlitos (c24ed5) — 2/29/2016 @ 9:00 pm37
He hurt his own sick infant nephew by cancelLing his family’s health insurance, so even hurting children won’t change some people’s willingness to support Trump.
I was under the impression that no actual damage was done to the nephew. Is that wrong?
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 2/29/2016 @ 9:01 pm@ carlitos: RCP is the best available, I agree, but for tomorrow’s races even that average is severely hampered by the huge shortage of recent polls (since the Houston GOP debate or even the South Carolina primary) that they’re not terribly meaningful. You start looking at the state-by-states, and somewhere like Arkansas — where Cruz appears to be doing well — is awfully thinly sourced and not terribly recent. That is to say, the latest polls are likely to be less reliable than those earlier in this season.
And the best pollsters do their weighting by taking into account things like whether the respondent has in fact voted in previous recent primaries in determining likely GOP primary voters. Trump is driving record numbers of new voters, both for and against him, which in turn has to be screwing with their margins of error bigtime.
The only place I have enough history and presence to have an informed gut hunch is Texas, and I believe Cruz will repeat his Senate primary run-off over-performance versus the polls — and that one was a spectacular overperformance. I’m basing this on nothing more than vibes and hunches, and I freely acknowledge that I’m probably a victim of the Pauline Kael Syndrome (literally no one I know will admit, to my face anyway, to being a Trump supporter; that may be a comment about me, though, as well as Trump).
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 9:03 pmMr. Shearer (#55): Yes, it is wrong to terrorize members of your family by cutting of their insurance benefits, even if they don’t end up suffering a lack of medical care or other irremediable consequences as a proximately caused result.
Wrong.
Want to debate that some more? I’ll check in the morning. 😉
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 9:05 pm57.Mr. Shearer (#55): Yes, it is wrong to terrorize members of your family by cutting of their insurance benefits, even if they don’t end up suffering a lack of medical care or other irremediable consequences as a proximately caused result.
What exactly happened? Making someone pay for their own insurance isn’t exactly the same as cutting them off. Perhaps Trump did behave badly in this case (it is not exactly unheard of for people to behave badly in this sort of family squabble) but claiming he hurt his nephew seems like a gross overstatement.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 2/29/2016 @ 9:24 pmAs for the original post even if you believe the story what it amounts to is a politician shading his position depending on his audience. Like Rubio saying one thing in English and another thing in Spanish. Not exactly unheard of.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 2/29/2016 @ 9:30 pmIt was his grand nephew, Shearer, not his nephew. I’m not going to bother to look up the articles again. The grand nephew was born with a congenital disorder, I believe it was MS but I’m not sure I have that detail correct in my memory. Donald Trump promised to take care of the child’s medical bills. I do know they ran into the hundreds of thousands per year.
When the children of Donald’s brother Freddie found out they had been cut out of the senior Trump’s will they sued as a previous iteration included them.
And then Donald cut off the medical insurance. As you can see the medical care was expensive, and I don’t believe Freddie’s children were wealthy enough to afford it. After all, their father died in his forties of complications of alcoholism. Not a combination of circumstances likely to lead to a rich inheritance for his children.
Donald doesn’t dispute the essential facts. That he had promised to pay for the child’s medical care, or that the lack of that medical care was potentially life threatening. He simply says he acted as he did because he was angry because Freddie’s kids sued him.
So, yes, I’d put this in the category of behaving badly. He was essentially taking a hostage. He put a very young child in a potentially life threatening situation because he was mad at the child’s parents, his own nieces and nephews.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 2/29/2016 @ 9:44 pmAccording to the reports the meeting took place on 5 January; they didn’t endorse anyone until 30 January.
So nothing about the timeline makes this story questionable at all.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 2/29/2016 @ 10:00 pmDana, the bottom line is that Trump’s voters are not voting for what he is. They’re voting for what he is not. So learning bad things about what he is doesn’t matter. I wrote a post about this:
http://chizumatic.mee.nu/weird_world/republican_fainting_couches
Steven Den Beste (99cfa1) — 2/29/2016 @ 10:45 pmMr. Den Beste, hello! I read your linked piece. You’re working from several misconceptions. Among them is your reference to Trump having stockholders, to whom he owes a fiduciary duty.
He doesn’t — at least not in the sense I think you meant. His companies aren’t publicly traded. They mostly own each other, and they’re all ultimately owned by Trump or a family member or other close affiliate. Trump doesn’t do what he does to make other people rich. He does it to make Trump rich. What he does includes defrauding people out of millions of dollars, as alleged in the Trump U lawsuits, and leaving hundreds of millions of dollars in his companies’ unpaid debts wiped out in four waves of corporate bankruptcies.
You say people are voting for what he’s not. Well, I can name you three dozen genuinely successful businessmen who are also not Washington politicians or anyone’s establishment. And if you think Ted Cruz is “establishment,” you haven’t paid attention to his Senate career; 99 other senators would disagree with you.
I respect your opinions always, and you express them well. But I disagree with this one, and I don’t think your theory explains why Trump’s voters support him in particular. I have other theories — much darker and less flattering ones — which now, alas, do.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/29/2016 @ 11:31 pm@62, you missed the point.
They’re voting for Trump because of what he can fool people into believing he’s not. In reality Trump is as establishment as you can get. He’s only not part of the establishment in the sense that he hasn’t held elected office. But he’s just as much a part of the establishment as Hillary! or anyone else because Trump wants to feed at the public trough, and they’re happy as clams give him as much of the slops as he’s willing to buy.
And Trump likes to brag about how he’s willing to grease the palms of a lot of pols if it means more slops for him.
Right. He doesn’t talk like the establishment. And he knows what people want to hear. As they say in politics, sincerity is the key; if you can fake that you’ve got it made. If there’s one thing a reality TV star and con man knows how to do is fake that sincerity. That’s exactly why he’s the perfect fraud to play this role. And he’ll get to Washington and cozy up to all his friends whom he’s already paid for and forget all about that.
I understand exactly what people wanted. They wanted to to give the middle finger to the ruling class elites of both parties. What they’re getting is a guy who isn’t shy about giving people the middle finger but he’s as ruling class elite as anybody you can name. Including Jeb Bush.
I wanted government out of my life to the maximum extent possible and the unconstitutional “fourth branch” of government, the bloated and unaccountable federal bureaucracy, cut down to size. With Trump we’re all going to get lots more government. Using government as a blunt instrument as he paid to play is how he made his money.
Just because he didn’t make those rules doesn’t mean he doesn’t love those rules, because if he didn’t he wouldn’t have paid pols to make them. He loves the H1-B visa program; that’s why he talks like the NYC left winger he is, about “jobs Americans just won’t do.” Meanwhile, Trump’s manager refuse to hire Americans and legal residents who are perfectly willing to do those jobs. Since when are conservatives supposed to be cool with people who talk like leftist open-borders types about “jobs Americans just won’t do?” Yeah, maybe not as many under the legal regime people like Trump lobbied for, but enough. But Trump doesn’t want them because he can pay foreign workers a lot, lot less in both wages and benefits.
Because, again, that’s what a “businessman” like Trump pays the big bucks to get in return.
Trump loves government, particularly a government he can control. Sell off or transfer to the states all or some of that obscene amount of federal land mismanaged by the BLM and Forest Service in the West? No, Trump told an interviewer from Field and Stream at the S.H.O.T. show when he was in Vegas for the debate. We need to keep those lands “great.” And only an all powerful federal government can do that, apparently, because Trump was adamantly opposed to having the feds give up control of it.
Trump is the epitome of the big government establishment guy, and for some silly reason his supporters can’t see through his act.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 2/29/2016 @ 11:47 pm*He just doesn’t talk like the establishment.
As I went on to say, he likes the establishment just fine. That’s why he brags about how well he gets along with Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, and how close he is to Chuck Schumer.
But if people want him to fake that sincerity and act like he doesn’t like them, he can pull that performance off. We wouldn’t have Republicans endorsing Trump, and Democrats like Carter saying they can work with Trump, if they were fooled by the same performance, though.
Why would they believe Trump doesn’t like them? They’re the ones who have been going to his weddings, his parties, flying on his jets, and collecting lots of his campaign cash for decades.
You don’t see many of the “little guys” he’s currently pretending to like being thrown into those briar patches.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 2/29/2016 @ 11:57 pmThink about it, Happyfeet: a wall keeps people in just as readily as it keeps them out.
Bill H (dcdd7b) — 3/1/2016 @ 12:01 am64 Trump is the epitome of the big government establishment guy, and for some silly reason his supporters can’t see through his act.
Or maybe his supporters don’t care as much about small government as you do.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 3/1/2016 @ 12:08 amPerhaps they don’t at that, James Shearer.
But you can’t argue Trump is not part of the establishment. Or part of the ruling class elite.
And his supporters say they care about that. That they’re rejecting establishment, ruling class elite candidates. Which is why in New Hampshire a lot of voters were really torn between voting for Trump, or voting for Sanders.
So it appears that in the name of rejecting the establishment and giving the finger to the ruling class elite, they’re about to give the nom and perhaps the entire race to the most establishment, most elite candidate ever to run.
Not that this is the election season to ask people to think things through, but if they like big government then they better get used to the fact that they’re going to have to learn to like the establishment types. Because you can’t run big establishments without out them.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 3/1/2016 @ 12:22 amI tip my hat to both Steve and Beldar, who are expressing pretty much exactly what I am feeling. Thank you.
Simon Jester (071ec6) — 3/1/2016 @ 12:34 am…..
Vladimir Putin just negotiated a cease-fire in Syria. I guess that’s what the American PutinVoters want- Mr. T to be their very own Putin. “Make our country great again ….. “
Luke Stywalker (289564) — 3/1/2016 @ 2:57 amTrump voters are Black Lives Matter and Occupy without the guts. Without the guts and with half the work ethic. They like Trump to tell them that it’s the Mexicans and the Asians, and not their own shiftlessness, which are responsible for their economic insecurity; and the Muslims, and not their own cowardice, which are responsible for the loss of their freedoms and the militarized police state. They’re what Robert Byrd called them — white n-words. And they’re stupid, too.
nk (dbc370) — 3/1/2016 @ 3:24 amIs that you Doris Day singing
mg (31009b) — 3/1/2016 @ 4:11 amQue, sera sera to the republican party?
R.I.P. Team republican, you are finished.
Cruz/West
Simon,
Are we turning you into a Texan?
DRJ (15874d) — 3/1/2016 @ 4:25 am…..
I’m pretty sure it was Mrs. Palin singing “Don’t cry for me, Melania …..”
Luke Stywalker (618b5f) — 3/1/2016 @ 4:29 amomg it’s super tuesday
everybody wake up it’s super tuesday!
if that don’t put a spring in your step then by golly
you a pooper!
happyfeet (831175) — 3/1/2016 @ 5:28 amShuffle! Seriously, it’s an ice-skating rink out there. Be very careful, especially on the el platforms.
nk (dbc370) — 3/1/2016 @ 5:30 amnk, here in North Texas it’s still a bit chilly at 63dg under partly sunny skies. But the clouds should clear entirely in a few hours and we should get close to 70dg. We should be hitting the mid-seventies by the weekend.
I just wanted you to know I’m jealous. Damn, I really miss that brisk winter weather.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 3/1/2016 @ 5:46 amoh crap you’re right
i thought it felt like something was blowing in last night
it’s a work at home day for me and tomorrow i’m a go to los angeles – and drive back with a refugee from failifornia!
is my first refugees!
happyfeet (831175) — 3/1/2016 @ 5:48 amDRJ #73: Years ago, I did apply for two jobs in Texas. No interviews. I wasn’t good enough!
But I admire the heck out of the libertarian small government ethos.
Simon Jester (071ec6) — 3/1/2016 @ 5:58 amI was wondering, while we’re on the subject of what might matter to Trump fans.
Since Trump didn’t mention anything about tax audits until just this month, even though he’s been audited for 12 years or 5 years or the past 3 or 4 years or whatever, shouldn’t he at least release the IRS audit notification letters?
It would matter to me if my candidate just pulled something like that out of his large intestine on a debate stage because he had run out of excuses for dodging the tax return question.
Until he produces the letters, the operating assumption is that he’s lying about that, too.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:03 amBy this month, I meant February. We’re only 8 hours into March; force of habit.
I do recall in January Trump claimed to be working on releasing his tax returns.
Again, no mention of any audits in January.
Steve57 (5891a6) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:05 am71.Trump voters are Black Lives Matter and Occupy without the guts. Without the guts and with half the work ethic. They like Trump to tell them that it’s the Mexicans and the Asians, and not their own shiftlessness, which are responsible for their economic insecurity; and the Muslims, and not their own cowardice, which are responsible for the loss of their freedoms and the militarized police state. They’re what Robert Byrd called them — white n-words. And they’re stupid, too.
It’s just a total mystery why Trump voters aren’t responding to this sort of appeal.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:30 am80Until he produces the letters, the operating assumption is that he’s lying about that, too.
Prior to Trump saying anything about this my operating assumption was that a guy like Trump is audited every year. If he isn’t perhaps the IRS needs a bigger budget.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:34 amTrump is 0bama all over again, only this time as farce.
Milhouse (87c499) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:34 amhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qBmNFYicYI
Cruz was so calm in video from last night.
No other candidate knows how to be calm…
jrt for Cruz (bc7456) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:42 amYou get it and don’t get it at the same time, James. I guess that’s what’s called cognitive dissonance. Trump voters want to be petted and coddled and pandered to and and told what they want to hear. That’s what makes them Trump voters. The only thing to do with them, if you’re not Trump, is to marginalize them, demoralize them, and neuter them as a political force. You cannot get them on your side unless you want to descend in the same sewer as them, like Trump has, and what would be the point of that?
They’re not necessary to anything. We can get along just fine without them. In other elections, they vote for the fringe, loony parties or stay home, anyway. It’s the badgerhead that’s brought them out of the woodwork, and some light shining them will drive them back in.
nk (dbc370) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:43 amsome light shone on them
nk (dbc370) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:44 am84.Sadly, I think you’re right. Trump is to the Republicans what Obama was to the democRats.
I have to disagree. True republicans see right through Trump. Democrats have never had a candidate to vote for in this race. No one of worth is willing to stand with Killary or Sanders
jrt for Cruz (bc7456) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:47 amTrump is winning in states with open primaries. IF Trump wins the republican primary it will be with votes from moderate democrats….NOT republicans!!
Rubio and the rest are killing Cruz who is the only chance at a battle against moderate Trump
jrt for Cruz (bc7456) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:48 amLooking forward to what Beldar, DRJ, and other Texans have to say today.
MD not exactly in Philly (deca84) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:09 amEarly voting is double what it was in past elections, MD. I think Cruz will win but something is turning voters out, and it may be Trump.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:18 amI watched the John Oliver “last week tonight” a-hole ripping of Trump last night. Ouch.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:21 amAh oliver, the kind of punk who would cheer cirbyn, no thanks.
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:26 amSure looks like we have lots of people commenting here who don’t trust rank and file Republicans to select their own candidate. Too stupid, suckers, lemmings, evil doers, and on and on are just some of the dirty names the anointed here spit out as they look down their noses at anyone brash enough to say a kind word about the GOP frontrunner.
Trump is going to win this thing, maybe even today, or maybe next week, but win it he will if things keep going his way, and so far they have, in spades. Trump is a political phenomena the likes of which have rarely, if ever, been seen in American politics. Sure, there have been landslide winners before, but for Democrats usually the media was all-in behind them, and for Republicans the Democrat opponent made a fool of himself and the media couldn’t save him from self-destruction.
Trump is an unabashed American nationalist, the voters like what they see and hear, and they don’t give a tinker’s damn what talking heads or GOPe party leaders say about Trump. They’re turning out in record numbers to support the man they hope will put thing right again and restore the America we know and love.
No amount of bad mouthing Trump is going to change that.
ropelight (e7ed22) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:26 amcarlitos,
Re our poll discussion with Gerald A above, the issue is how the polls predicted the outcomes for Rubio and Cruz — because Gerald A is trying to pick between them. It reminded me of NH where the polls predicted Cruz and Rubio would tie but the actual results were very different. Rubio dramatically underperformed, coming in 5th.
Both Cruz and Rubio outperformed the polls in Iowa and South Carolina by about the same margins.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:33 amI’ll not be rude or ugly or all of the other things that Trump detractors are supposed to be,
But I will say that those who hope Trump will “make things right again” are going to be disappointed about as much as those who thought Obama was going to bring in a post-partisan and post-racial America.
My oldest son sent me a link to that clip of Oliver (who I had never heard of before).
My only comment was that I hope he gives equal treatment to Clinton and Sanders.
Well, didn’t Cruz inspire some pretty big turnout in his primary run-off?
MD not exactly in Philly (deca84) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:35 amWe have reason to hope.
“Trump is an unabashed American nationalist, the voters like what they see and hear, and they don’t give a tinker’s damn what talking heads or GOPe party leaders say about Trump. They’re turning out in record numbers to support the man they hope will put thing right again and restore the America we know and love.”
– ropelight
We’re just disappointed that so many Americans are enthusiastically succumbing to the lazy appeal of fascism.
Leviticus (efada1) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:38 amhe’s one of Stewart’s trained chimps, of course, he’s not going to, ‘speaking truth to power’ is a game, they employ on safe targets,
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:38 amGerald A,
I have a typical Texan stereotype of Virginia but I have to think Rubio would be a better bet in VA than Cruz. It surprises me that Cruz is doing as well as the polls show. There must be a few conservatives in Virginia. Maybe he will outperform again!
DRJ (15874d) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:39 amin the southern part of the state, where the naval bases are, the north is an annex of dc’s fiefdom,
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:41 amAs someone said earlier in the election cycle – nationalism and socialism, what could go wrong?
narciso – your references continue to elude me. John Oliver is a comedian.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:42 am#96, MD, it must be nice to see into the future with such clarity.
BTW, the rude and ugly things Trump detractors say are on permanent display upthread and in nearly all the posts here over the last month or so. However, I will grant that your comments have been among the least unkind.
ropelight (e7ed22) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:43 amCorbyn, the pro ira, islamist version of sanders, the one who would sees 1984 as ‘a cookbook’
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:44 amTrump cares about America as much as he cared about the small-time beer vendors at his casinos as he destroyed them in his bankruptcies.
John Hitchcock (f3ad73) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:45 amIn the battle for hearts and minds Trump’s army of insurgents knows he lies and screws people they just believe he’s going to screw their enemies at home and abroad and not them. The problem is that includes us and the structure of our constitutional republic.
crazy (cde091) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:47 am#12: HF, if you are correct and Trump was just giving the NYT an insider’s view of the process of negotiating a deal on the illegal immigrant problem, then I am even less impressed with Trump. The guys sitting on the other side of table in such a deal are going to have access to these “off the record” comments because they are comrades in arms with the NYT. As Trump should know by now. If Trump is running a big bluff on the whole thing, as you suggest, it has just been blown. He will get nothing in the negotiations. It would be far better if he’d kept his mouth shut if his goal was to halt, or just slow down, this invasion. He’s not a dumb guy, as you have pointed out, so he must have some other goal.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:49 amAcross the pond, cameron having routed the ukip, yet reluctantly acknowledging his issues, seeks to ‘dissolve the people’ re the tory membership, and elect another,
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:49 amJeremy Corbyn? I haven’t heard John Oliver say anything about him, other than one program where he made fun of the Labour Party “pink bus” campaign.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:49 amIf I’m wrong, it’s on me,
If I’m right, it’s being given grace to read the writing on the wall.
I was right with Obama.
No person can make happen what they want to happen,
We can at best have some control by God’s grace on how we approach things,
When we act in humility, honesty, and in respect of the law and God’s law,
We have a better possibility of seeing good result,
And if not, at least we did the right thing.
Trump, imo, is Obama without the leftist ideology, and probably less calculating.
Yes, I disagree with some of the vitriol directed against Trump supporters.
MD not exactly in Philly (deca84) — 3/1/2016 @ 7:52 am#104, Hitchcock, you know as little about casino operations as you know about fornication. There are no small-time beer vendors in casinos. Big time wholesale vendors service casinos. Maybe you’re thinking about the beer and hot dog vendors at ball parks, you know, the gougers who charge $6 to 8 bucks for a draft beer in a red plastic cup.
They’re the ones I’d like to see go belly up.
ropelight (e7ed22) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:02 amTrump has said Muslims should be banned because they are jihadists, Mexicans are rapists, criticized Fiorina’s face, and said Carson is a child molester and McCain is not a war hero because he was captured. Trump thrives on this rhetoric and his supporters defend it, so they can survive a few unkind words.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:03 amThis is why the primary is so unpleasant to me.
Simon Jester (2708f4) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:08 amArizona CJ (da673d) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:51 pm
It;s not ammo, because it is off the record, and he trusts the New York Times to keep what he said – only to them – secret. And he almost certainly didn’t say flat out that he would reverse his position, but rather, that everything is negotiable. And he said it to weaken the opposition of the New York Times. And it’s ammo, it is for when and if Donald Trump becomes president, to hold him to his word.
The interesting thing is that this was taped.
Sammy Finkelman (9775b0) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:08 amDRJ – thanks for the reply on the polling. It’s not a huge deal, but I have a comment stuck in moderation. Happy Voting!
ropelight – the “small-time vendors” affected by Trump in Atlantic City weren’t hot dog or beer vendors, they were contractors, people who sold stuff to the casino, suppliers, etc.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:09 amAnd beer vendors at ball parks don’t set the prices, therefore don’t “gouge” anyone. They buy and sell beer at a price dictated by the team and / or stadium.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:10 amBobStewartatHome,
Or maybe his desire to be liked by his hometown newspaper exceeds his desire to keep his campaign promises. Maybe it’s a New York version of what happens when politicians go to DC.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:12 amGood points, carlitos, and I will watch for your comment on polling.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:13 amAh, John, but I’ll bet you’re a wizard under a sheet 🙂 (h/t the one and only RAH)
Milhouse (87c499) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:13 amDana (86e864) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:58 pm
Bet $100 on Hillary Clinton winning the election at Ladbrokes.
No, that’s too little.
Bet with somebody that Hillary Clinton would win with a $1 or $2 billion payoff guaranteed in writing by Goldman Sachs. You couldn’t really do that, actually.
Sammy Finkelman (9775b0) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:14 am#108 at 7:49AM, asking narciso what he means about Jeremy Corbyn / John Oliver. Again, not super important. I can’t figure out what would have triggered the filter in that one.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:16 amcarlitos, tell it to Hitchcock, he’s the one who got it wrong, as usual.
ropelight (e7ed22) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:19 amautocorrect, like blogging filters are strange magic indeed, it is curious you know what Carlos Slim’s vanity project is all about, you know about the journolist, yet you insist on taking their narrative at face value,
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:21 amhappyfeet (831175) — 2/29/2016 @ 5:54 pm
Gerald A (7c7ffb) — 2/29/2016 @ 6:28 pm
Congress. This would cost money – plenty of money – especially since, under current law, every person could claim hardship or apply for asylum, and need to be given hearings to make their case, and can’t be kept locked up for years awaiting a hearing, and there are not enough immigration judges so taht any hearings can be held before the year 2020. And Congress has the power of the purse. That’s for starters.
Sammy Finkelman (9775b0) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:23 amThis is true. You, however, wished that service industry workers at baseball games, would “go belly up,” which is idiotic.
You also, with your “draft beer in a red plastic cup” comment seem unaware that most MLB stadiums sell in-seat beers in cans or aluminum bottles, and that craft beer, wine and mixed drinks are a huge part of the choice today. The average MLB park has 50 different beers to choose from. Beer vendors that schlep beer for 3 hours in the summer seem like a weird target for your ire.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:27 amCP. As far as I know, MS is never congenital.
Milhouse (87c499) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:30 amI wasn’t taking “a narrative at face value,” I was noting the fact that Mr. Trump tweeted something that he copied and pasted from a quote attributed to Benito Mussolini from an account called “ilduce2016.” Is that the action of a competent candidate? No. Could it be yet another pander to racists, real or imagined? Yes.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:36 amCasino bankruptcies hurt vendors because they are almost always unsecured creditors, who get pennies on the dollar for their claims (if they get anything). Trump likes to talk about sticking it to the banks but they are secured creditors who suffer losses, but nothing like the unsecured creditors suffer.
I think Beldar once commented that he looked at one of the Trump bankruptcy schedules on PACER and it had over 1900 pages of unsecured creditors, with 20-25 creditors per page. That’s 25,000 small vendors.
DRJ (15874d) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:37 am39. Jcurtis (9a271b) — 2/29/2016 @ 8:05 pm
Sammy Finkelman (9775b0) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:40 am“And beer vendors at ball parks don’t set the prices, therefore don’t “gouge” anyone. They buy and sell beer at a price dictated by the team and / or stadium.”
– carlitos
ropelight hates that kind of rank protectionism. Maybe we can petition the stadiums to let the market establish the price of beer, and let the market determine which vendors thrive.
Oh wait.
But then… ey tuk er jerbs, maybe?
Leviticus (efada1) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:42 amMy godson went to a Catholic school in Green Bay for a time and his school had the beer concession at Lambert Stadium*, with the parents volunteering as servers. If the Packers or Lambeau Field exercised any control over the price, it would have been what they demanded for granting the concession.
*2004 election reference
nk (dbc370) — 3/1/2016 @ 8:55 amnk, just a fine point,
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 3/1/2016 @ 9:00 amthe Green Bay Packers are the only NFL team owned by stockholders/the public
it could have policies unlike others
I could see a packer event being seen more as a community event
than a product for an owner to sell
but that may not be important, either
86. nk (dbc370) — 3/1/2016 @ 6:43 am
…is convince them that some of the things that Trump is saying, that they’ve heard go uncontradicted on talk radio for many years even, are actually wrong.
And that many of the criticisms of the “establishment” are wrongheaded.
Because now they think, there is no reason anyone would say the things Trump says unless they actually believed it, because nobody else does, so all the pressure must be the other way. And remember, they think that’s right and obvious as well, so everyone who says or does anything different from Trump must be at least a squidge. (Ted Cruz is faking not being a “squidge”, but he doesn’t compete well with Trump because Trump goes further than he does.)
Of course the reason nobody says anything like Trump, and certainly doesn’t and hasn’t attempted to to it, is because it’s wrong or based on misinformation and also quite impractical. But they are just too cowardly and inept to make cogent arguments for amnesty – amnesty not only for thsoe who have broken the law till now, but amnesty also for those who are yet to come. That is the only practical policy.
It can be mitigated by larger legal immigration. An immigration bill, whatever else is in it, should have no numbers, and certainly no fixed numbers, in the executible portion of the law (you could allow changes in eligibility from time to time.
Trump always endorses wrong positions which nobody knows how to argue are wrong, or people don’t generally know the defects of. It’s like high marginal tax rates before Laffer.
Churchill had a difficult time arguing against socialism in 1945, and lost the election, and the British people had to actually experience what the Labour government did until returning the Conservatives to power in 1950 and 1951 (the 1950 election resulted basically in a hung Parliament)
87.some light shone on them
Sammy Finkelman (9775b0) — 3/1/2016 @ 9:02 amYeah, nk – the World / tweeter / Midwest Bank Amptitheater does the same – they have volunteers work some of the concessions at each concert, raising money for their respective schools, charities or other organizations. The price cards are all pre-printed, and the costs to the vendor are all fixed by the venue.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 9:07 amdetails don’t really much matter to the dems, or the wurlitzers like camelbert and oliver,
http://www.dailypundit.com/?p=117386#comment-234990
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 9:38 amnarciso, what do French cheese and John Oliver being “wurlitzers” have to do with your link to a blog comment on an article about Steve Forbes maybe endorsing Donald Trump?
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/1/2016 @ 9:50 amWe conservatives-against-Trump keep waiting for that “the Emperor is naked!” moment that finally will break whatever spell he seems to have cast over once-solid conservatives.
Even Jeff Sessions. Cripes.
Mitch (341ca0) — 3/1/2016 @ 10:11 am@ ropelight: Among the comments I’ve left here in the past have been specific examples of some of the vendors and tradesmen whom Trump screwed over in his bankruptcies. You’re correct that it’s not small-time hot-dog vendors.
Rather, Trump screwed over wholesalers, suppliers, and service companies like the local Atlantic City Coca-Cola Bottling franchisee, or the company that laundered the hotel’s linens, or the company that provided their security guards, or the companies that sold them the food which they prepared and served in the restaurants.
Did Sysco have to go out of business because Trump stiffed them? No, they’re a big company that does business nationwide. So what do they do when they lose over a million dollars from trusting Donald Trump? They pass that cost along to you, me, and everyone who eats in a restaurant to which Sysco wholesales all over the United States.
Every one of Trump’s four waves of corporate bankruptcies has been paid for by hardworking Americans whom he cheated to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars. Some of the losses were eaten by the businesses whom he dealt with — and cheated — directly. But most of those hundreds of millions of dollars got passed along to the consuming public through higher prices.
Is there anyone in America, anyone who’s passed through one of its airports, who hasn’t eaten at a restaurant for whom Sysco is a supplier? I doubt it. Donald Trump’s already screwed over essentially everyone in America, and now he’s coming back for the Biggest Con Job Ever.
Beldar (fa637a) — 3/1/2016 @ 10:20 am#97, Liviticus wrote: We’re just disappointed that so many Americans are enthusiastically succumbing to the lazy appeal of fascism.
If you weren’t still wet behind the ears you’d know that’s exactly the same sort of ugly, narrow minded, ridiculous smear the GOPe used against Ronald Reagan. It didn’t work then and it won’t work now – but it does reveal the level of malevolence poisoning what’s left of your soul.
ropelight (e7ed22) — 3/1/2016 @ 11:15 amBeldar, you might as well quit pointing out (to me) what you see as Trump’s negatives. You’re wasting your time. As long as Trump is in the race, the GOPe is looking at getting exactly what the dirty back-stabbing bastards have coming, what they’ve earned dozens of times over and over again.
If Trump is the vehicle that destroys the GOPe’s corrupt cabal, I say Hooray! Hip, Hip, Hooray! Hooray for Uncle Sam, and Hooray for Donald Trump. And, let the Devil take the hindmost.
ropelight (e7ed22) — 3/1/2016 @ 11:27 amexhibits a-f:
http://www.nysun.com/national/fears-of-trump-as-fascist-echo-similar-warnings/89476/
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 11:30 am@ ropelight: I’ve no hope of curing your crazies.
I write to persuade others who aren’t crazy yet, or who might be cured if they are.
I’ll also continue to point out your distortions and evasions as part of that, because it demonstrates such a pattern among Trump supporters. I give you credit for being one of the most articulate and slippery of them. So while it’s not going to convince you of anything, I feel that the efforts I’m making may have entertainment or educational value for others. Dif’rent strokes, huh?
Beldar (fa637a) — 3/1/2016 @ 11:36 amIt’s also just fun to keep posting facts that you can’t dispute or refute or deal with in any kind of honest fashion, ropelight.
Beldar (fa637a) — 3/1/2016 @ 11:38 am“As long as Trump is in the race, the GOPe is looking at getting exactly what the dirty back-stabbing bastards have coming, what they’ve earned dozens of times over and over again.”
“Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
“As long as Trump is in the race,
Beldar (fa637a) — 3/1/2016 @ 11:43 amthe GOPeAmerican public is looking at getting exactly what the dirty back-stabbing bastards have coming, what they’ve earned dozens of times over and over and over again.”I wonder how long it will take before Ropelight starts cucking like a chicken. Trumpsters are heavily represented by cucking chickens.
John Hitchcock (f3ad73) — 3/1/2016 @ 11:49 amthe dems are burning the country down, and the gope has just provided the propane, most of the time,
narciso (732bc0) — 3/1/2016 @ 11:51 amJohn Hitchcock, I saw what you did there.
Milhouse (87c499) — 3/2/2016 @ 7:42 amWell, then, he shouldn’t have been so stupid as to publicly announce he was going to release his tax returns then. Several times.
Steve57 (1ace39) — 3/3/2016 @ 10:21 am