Patterico's Pontifications

2/23/2016

Cruz Told the Truth: Rubio Could Have Done More to Defund Planned Parenthood

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:55 am

This is another post debunking a Rubio fan-boi’s list of so-called “blatant lies” by Ted Cruz — “lies” that turn out to be true on closer inspection. Today’s “lie” that isn’t a lie illustrates something important about Ted Cruz’s character. Namely, he seeks accountability, and wants to eliminate show votes that make Senators look like they’re against things like funding Planned Parenthood, without expending any real capital to defeat them. Here is the alleged “lie” by Cruz:

6) Cruz claimed that Rubio did not want to use Congress’s “constitutional authority to defund Planned Parenthood,” thereby trying to suggest Rubio was weak on the issue.

In reality, Rubio has actually voted for and supported spending bills that defunded Planned Parenthood and standalone bills that defunded the organization. This was such a blatantly dishonest attack that the most prominent pro-life organization in the country, the National Right to Life, actually called out Cruz for his “inaccurate and misleading” attacks:

“Marco Rubio voted to defund Planned Parenthood before Ted Cruz ever got to the U.S. Senate. Since Ted Cruz joined the U.S. Senate, both he and Sen. Rubio have voted the same on every roll call that National Right to Life regards as pertinent to defunding Planned Parenthood”

This defense ignores the evidence that Rubio could have done much more. The Hill reports: “Rubio refused to back Cruz’s plan to shut down the government over Planned Parenthood funding during budget deliberations last year.” That, of course, is a tendentious and in fact ridiculous way of phrasing Cruz’s plan. The notion that Barack Obama would veto a spending bill that funded every aspect of government, but declined to give money to a private organization that conducts abortions and sells baby parts, is preposterous. And if that actually happened, the people of America would rise up against Obama.

But the truth is that, while such actions are fully within Congress’s authority, folks like Rubio are too a skeered to exercise their constitutional authority, lest the media portray them (as the Hill did in the link above) as wild-eyed maniacs looking to shut down the governments!!!!1!11!!! And so we got stories like this one from Politico (cached link; no links for bullies):

Rubio avoids Cruz’s Planned Parenthood-shutdown push

Many of the Republican candidates on the debate stage Wednesday night joined in a full-throated endorsement of Ted Cruz’s damn-the-torpedoes strategy to defund Planned Parenthood, even if it means shutting down the federal government.

But two candidates who’ll soon be casting votes on the matter were noticeably silent: Sens. Marco Rubio and Rand Paul.

“I think they’re just seeing the results of the last time we tried that,” Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the party’s nominee in 2008, said of a strategy similar to what Republicans tried with defunding Obamacare in 2013. “Last time was a disaster.

The issue was the difference between show votes and real votes. Exposing that difference is something Cruz has repeatedly done in his time in the Senate. The Senate has a way of conducting business where the vote that will actually determine whether something happens is procedural. Then, after voting the way leadership wants them to vote on procedure, a Senator is generally given a show vote that makes them look like they are against something that they could have stopped but didn’t. Politico explained the showdown that was coming, and the political difficulties inherent in that showdown for Rubio:

If the Senate takes up a spending bill this month that defunds Planned Parenthood as GOP leaders now plan, the three senators will go likely go on record in favor of it. Paul has held several Planned Parenthood events on the Capitol grounds and Rubio has unequivocally said he wants to gut the organization’s federal backing.

But there likely will be subsequent votes, right before the deadline, that will actually decide whether a shutdown happens. How Rubio and Paul vote then, and what they say in the lead-up to it, could make all the difference in whether or how they’d be associated with a federal closure that’s sure to play better with conservative activists than general election voters.

Rubio and Paul have kept their distance from Cruz so far. Even though both Rubio and Paul have typically opposed short-term spending bills in the past that funded Planned Parenthood, both men have refused to sign a letter from Cruz to Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) vowing to oppose any spending bill that funds the organization.

Last September, Mitch McConnell used his leadership prerogatives to try to shut down Cruz’s attempts to defund Planned Parenthood — and to shield Senators from accountability for their vote to allow the “clean” bill to go forward:

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX)97% is excoriating the Republican leadership in the House and Senate for failing to “lift a finger to defend life” by eliminating taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood. Cruz’s speech on the Senate floor comes as the lawmakers voted, 77-19, to advance a bill to authorize government spending that includes funding for Planned Parenthood.

The 2016 Republican contender attempted to submit an amendment that would “restrict the use of Federal funds for Planned Parenthood Federation of America” as well as those to “implement the nuclear agreement with Iran or for assessed contributions to the United Nations until the President submits the agreement and all related materials to Congress.”

Senate Majority Leader Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY)44%, however, “filled the tree” of amendments on this bill to fund the government, preventing any other senators from offering amendments to change the measure, a tactic used on numerous occasions by Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV)2% when he was the Majority Leader. The strategy would prevent any amendments to bills and keep Reid’s Democrat members from having to be on record for difficult votes.

Cruz’s motion on Monday night was to “table” the “filled amendment tree,” to set it aside in order to make room for his amendment that would both defund Planned Parenthood as well as the Iran deal.

Though normally the Senate would take a recorded vote on such a question, in this case McConnell prevented Cruz from getting enough senators to “second” his request and call for a recorded vote to set aside the amendment tree and make room for Cruz’s amendment. This tactic sets up a proxy vote in that anyone not seconding Cruz’s request is saying he or she does not want a recorded vote on the question of defunding Planned Parenthood and the Iran deal.

With no recorded vote, a voice vote was taken on the issue, and any senators who voiced “no” were also essentially voting against defunding Planned Parenthood and the Iran deal.

So how did Rubio deal with this difficult situation? Roll Call reported that Rubio managed to avoid voting on this:

Among [Senators voting against a “clean” contining resolution] them were presidential candidates Ted Cruz of Texas and Rand Paul of Kentucky, while Marco Rubio of Florida and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina did not vote.

Rubio could have full-throatedly supported Cruz at every step of the way, saying: “If Barack Obama wants to shut down this government because of his need to fund Planned Parenthood, an organization that sells baby parts, let him. I support Ted Cruz’s efforts on this issue 100%.”

Rubio didn’t say that. Instead, he skipped town when the rubber met the road.

Cruz is not a “liar” for pointing this out.

134 Responses to “Cruz Told the Truth: Rubio Could Have Done More to Defund Planned Parenthood”

  1. Did not tilt at windmill enough. OK. Is Rubio somehow not anti-abortion enough? Near as I can tell he’s more absolute than Cruz — a position that will hurt him in the general election should it come to that.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  2. Excellent, Patterico.

    jb (8a9f1d)

  3. Wow. This site has really gone full on attack on Rubio. I’m all for that, it’s just kind of strange is all.

    Drider (80d1fd)

  4. Here is where I think we differ on Cruz. Not on the issues, but on tactics and leadership.

    I do not see Cruz’s willingness to take on hopeless fights, merely for counting coup, as an endearing quality. That he cannot rally the troops and get them all moving behind him is not the troops fault, so much as his inability to lead. This is my major qualm about his candidacy.

    Not only do I worry about the potential for lackluster establishment support (and you cannot win without the party regulars and the ground game) but even if he wins he’ll be fighting his party half the time.

    Leadership is what separates the Reagans from the Goldwaters. I’ve not yet seen it from Cruz.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  5. Cruz got the troops in Texas to follow him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  6. Against a popular, incumbent Lt Gov and overwhelming odds.

    DRJ (15874d)

  7. America is not Texas. Perhaps you’ve noticed.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  8. Lt Gov’s are like Vice-Presidents – but worse! (Seriously, they’re largely derided for being do-nothings. David Dewnothinghurst.)

    Nobody could accuse Cruz of being a do-nothing, but that’s not a particularly high bar for leadership.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  9. Now, this doesn’t mean that Rubio can lead either — neither one of them seems to be able to beat Donald effing Trump — but it’s been Cruz out there on the white horse with damn few helpers. I’d hate to see his campaign end up like that.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  10. Kevin M-Did Cruz fail to rally the troops or was he simply unable to get past the roadblock put up by a corrupt Senate leader? If McConnell not played dirty would the troops have rallied to the cause? With Rubio’s help could he have done it? Just wondering.

    jd bryant (dd2116)

  11. Roobs does not pass muster.

    DNF (755a85)

  12. More suicide.

    Why is the pundit class commending Cruz, and slamming Rubio, over policy positions that have …. maybe 30% (but more likely 20%) popular support??

    Shutting down the government over Planned Parenthood funding. Wow. Is this really what being a true conservative has come to?

    Donald Trump is openly supporting Planned Parenthood, yet is still getting upwards of 40% of GOP primary support. Yet, we are now slamming Rubio because he didn’t support an absolutely suicidal strategy of shutting the government down over Planned Parenthood.

    Yesterday, Cruz came out on O’Reilly and used words that his own supporters interpreted to mean that Cruz was in favor of deporting 20M+ illegal aliens. This is … yet another … 20% support policy position. And yet the right wing pundit class is slamming Rubio over immigration.

    No GOP candidate is going to win a general election if he is supporting door-to-door round-ups of illegal alien families or shutting the government down over Planned Parenthood.

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  13. Seriously? Cruz is implying that Rubio is not pro-life enough with “this is how we dance on the head of a pin” Senate minutiae? Who is going to believe that smoke and mirrors? I know Rubio is pro-life, possibly more than Cruz, and not afraid to say it.

    nk (dbc370)

  14. This is not a race to become President of Conservative America. It’s a race to become President of the United States of America. Sometimes I wonder if some of our conservative friends have an objective of winning 90% of the vote in Wyoming.

    Meanwhile, back in Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Wisconsin, and Colorado…

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  15. This is not a race to become President of Conservative America. It’s a race to become President of the United States of America. Sometimes I wonder if some of our conservative friends have an objective of winning 90% of the vote in Wyoming.

    Meanwhile, back in Ohio, Virginia, Florida, Wisconsin, and Colorado…
    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 2/23/2016 @ 9:38 am

    This.

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  16. Just consider how much damage has been done to the conservative cause by the constant, unending harping on “amnesty.”

    Ted Cruz has gone from the principled guy who champions the constitution and will adhere strictly to the rule of law …. to the guy who won’t let you forget that he’s going to deport 20 million people — and is slamming Rubio because he hasn’t promised to start deporting Obama’s “Dreamers.” And the right wing pundit class is cheering this on, because Rubio committed some great act of betrayal.

    Meanwhile, in the real world, Obama has already implemented the great amnesty that we were looking to avoid — those folks are NEVER, EVER, EVER being deported — and border security hasn’t been enhanced at all.

    The phony fealty to loyalty on the amnesty issue above all else is a fringe, unpopular, minority issue (which is working for Trump, and Trump alone) … yet it seems to be the only thing the right wing pundit class cares about.

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  17. Meanwhile, in the real world, Obama has already implemented the great amnesty that we were looking to avoid — those folks are NEVER, EVER, EVER being deported — and border security hasn’t been enhanced at all.

    The phony fealty to loyalty on the amnesty issue above all else is a fringe, unpopular, minority issue (which is working for Trump, and Trump alone) … yet it seems to be the only thing the right wing pundit class cares about
    ………………………………….

    BO has governed by executive fiat. He has used his executive orders to shove every law he wanted down our throats….UNTIL HE LEAVES OFFICE AND THE NEXT PRESIDENT UNDOES HIS EXECUTIVE LAW… then we are where we are…..ONLY CRUZ will remove every executive order BECAUSE only Cruz hasn’t and wont cut deals with the DC establishment ……….Rubio already cut the deal when Jebito dropped ….and Trump will cut deals because he likes to.

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  18. No GOP candidate is going to win a general election if he is supporting door-to-door round-ups of illegal alien families or shutting the government down over Planned Parenthood.
    Amerigo Chattin

    At this point by the way the Republicans are ripping each other to sheds I don’t think they stand a chance of winning the general. As I’ve said, the democrats will vote for whoever is the nominee from Hillary! to Sanders to Adolph. The Republicans are too busy in a pi$$ing contest about who is conservative enough to concentrate on the enemy. Every argument, every slur, every lie, every threat the Republicans throw at each other will be in a democrat commercial next year.

    If it weren’t for the fact America is done for already I’d be incensed. And it isn’t the fact that an anti American, moslem-loving commie was elected President…. twice. It’s the fact that there were enough Americans to vote for an anti American, moslem-loving commie to elect him….twice.

    Rev. Hoagie™® (f4eb27)

  19. Thank you for the Rubio pieces.

    Somebody needed to do it.

    It helps.

    ThOR (a52560)

  20. I do think that jrt for Cruz is right. Only Cruz will remove every executive order of Obama’s but not because he won’t cut deals. It’s because Cruz is as much a conservative ideologue as Obama is a leftist ideologue. Which is also the reason Cruz won’t win a general. The left controls everything in case you haven’t noticed. From pre-K (as they love to call it) to Wall Street. From MSNBC to The New York Times. From Modern Family to Cheerio’s commercials.

    And if you think the left isn’t going to register every illegal to vote when they give them their driver license “so they can work and not drive illegally” you’re an idiot.

    Rev. Hoagie™® (f4eb27)

  21. Back when the GOPe’s Gang of 8 was pushing amnesty with fresh-faced token immigrant Marco Rubio leading the charge, conservatives reacted in horror and demanded border security before any discussion of a path to citizenship take place. Now, the GOPe is using Rubio again to front for their sell-out of Americans in order to keep their comfortable position as Washington Generals and designated losers to the Democrat’s Globe Trotters.

    Rubio is a 2 faced turncoat and should be rejected across the board. Otherwise Hillary wins.

    ropelight (e16666)

  22. This is the kind of thing that sane candidates and sane candidate campaign people should know how to differentiate their candidates in kinder terms.
    I don’t know “who started it”,
    but both Cruz and Rubio have points to make and areas of disagreement that could be defined with a minimum of name calling.

    Cruz can say he campaigned on doing “all that he could” on curtain issues, and he has done that.
    Rubio could say he is for some of the same things, but differed in his approach on how to address them.
    They could both be right and there would be less bad vibes that make people want to throw up their hands and say “just forget about it!!”

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  23. Many of you are missing the point. Cruz isn’t pointing out that Rubio isn’t pro-life, or insufficiently pro-life, but rather spineless. He’s a typical politician, and when votes on important issues matter he’s a no-show. That is a glaring problem with Rubio. Cruz, on the other hand, appears to not care one wit about re-election “perceptions” or his political “image” when it comes to hard votes on principled issues. Cruz fights, he’s leading a charge, but the rest of the Republican in the Senate are too scared of losing their job to follow. Instead of giggling at Cruz’s “failed leadership” perhaps we should be scorning those that fail to help hi pick up the flag of liberty and push the fight forward on principled issues.

    Sean (1d5074)

  24. I don’t begrudge elected officials having different perspectives on how to do something,
    I do mind when they seem to promise one thing and then do something else.
    So, it doesn’t bother me that much for Rubio to say, “I just don’t think the Cruz strategy is the way to go”, unless he promised that kind of stand in his campaign.
    I guess though that is what happened with illegal immigration, he promised a hard line in his campaign then thought that making compromises with the Dems with terms to their liking (of course) was the thing to do.

    Unless someone can persuade me otherwise.

    MD not exactly in Philly (deca84)

  25. Of course, we’re all for rescinding Obama’s unlawful executive orders. And we’re all for enforcing the border and not having 100 zillion new Democrat voters. But we don’t get to govern unless we FIRST win the election. And that’s a difficult task to achieve when you’re turning off millions of voters with crass insults and cartoonish behavior as Trump does. And it also is difficult to do when Cruz slips into his “shutting down the government” mode and slightly Goldwater-ish “Principle is no vice!” lectures.

    Obama was a brilliant campaigner because he used winks and nods to the Left base, yet mostly spoke in a gentler, less-threatening, uplifting aspirational tone specifically for the consumption of the millions of Americans who don’t really follow politics but who vote every 4 years for President.
    Honey works better than vinegar. That’s one of the big factors for why Goldwater lost, and Reagan won…it was tone and affability.

    The problem is that too many among the conservative base aren’t satisfied with winks and nods in public. They want John Brown to stand up there and invoke thunder and lightning.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  26. 18. And job #1 is to crush the political class.

    DNF (755a85)

  27. That’s one perspective, CS,
    another one would be that we are tired of getting only winks and nods at election time then nothing later, and we are looking for evidence that somebody means what they say.

    MD not exactly in Philly (deca84)

  28. Cruz does need to help people see the benefits of rule of law

    MD not exactly in Philly (deca84)

  29. Next leg down begins mid-week:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-23/demark-sees-risk-of-s-p-500-top-should-stocks-stumble-this-week

    Innaugauration a little less than a year away will be a very different scenario than today.

    DNF (755a85)

  30. Since both Cruz and Rubio are ineligible for the presidency it really doesn’t matter what they say or do to each other. If either one emerges as the GOP nominee the Democrats will disqualify him on the basis of failing to meet the Constitutional natural born citizen requirement.

    With the SCOTUS already conveniently reduced to a 4-4 split no definitive pronouncement is possible prior to the election, so the Dems propaganda wing will dominate the news cycle. Amnesty will become the central issue in the presidential election. Dems will push for voting rights for anyone who shows up at the polls, no ID, no previous registration, no restrictions.

    Americans lose their country to Democrat lies and illegal alien voting to preserve access to welfare, food stamps, and taxpayer funded health care.

    ropelight (e16666)

  31. The whole weird dynamic of the GOP race this year — dominated by a celebrity interloper who is veering uncomfortably close to a cult of personality — has queered the entire race. For the life of me I don’t know why we have devolved into the equivalent of searching stool samples to see who is the 99.44% conservative versus the 100% conservative, but I don’t think this is going to end well.

    JVW (9e3c77)

  32. 30. Since both Cruz and Rubio are ineligible for the presidency ….

    The mandatory daily dose from nutjob land. Quite illuminating regarding what kind of people actually believe the kind of things Mr. Trump proclaims.

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17)

  33. I think Patterico may have buried the lede here (from my POV anyway), so I’ll quote and bold:

    “he or she does not want a recorded vote on the question of defunding Planned Parenthood and the Iran deal.”

    Rubio’s Planned Parenthood non-vote rates about a 4 on my objection meter. His weaseling and evasion (not voting) rates about a 6. Doing this on the Iran deal, though, rates a freaking 11 all on its own.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  34. I had the good fortune to hear Cruz answer a pointed question on deportation from Bill O’Reilly last night. When O’Reilly shut his loud mouth long enough for an answer from Cruz, Cruz patiently described his approach… which was to uphold/use existing laws on the books, notification to ICE when people have overstayed their visas, basically use the tools that Obama has refused to use and then talked of the impact of wage suppression suffered by AMERICAN CITIZENS that results from the influx of millions of illegal immigrants. Use all the tools at our disposal and harden our borders

    Colonel Haiku (250e3e)

  35. Still waiting for that big hit piece (or, I hope, series of pieces) on Trump.

    Patrick, you’ve made it abundantly clear that Trump is the bigger concern. You’ve vowed that you would not vote for Trump even in November, against someone who will be the most leftist nominee ever — and have not made such a vow about Rubio.

    Yet how many hit- or hit-back pieces have you done on Rubio compared to those on Trump?

    Sounds like you either think Rubio is truly the bigger threat, or you’ve allowed a personal dislike for Rubio/ his supporters to cloud your better judgment.

    To be clear: each of these Rubio shots is perfectly fair game. You’re just emptying the magazine at him in fair shot after fair shot, sometimes three times a day, while not saying anything lately about Trump.

    Mitch (341ca0)

  36. Cruz was born in Canada to a Cuban father, he’s more eligible to contend for a leadership position in Cuba than for the presidency of the US. Hillary and the Dems are waiting for an opportunity to expose his ineligibility and win the White House by default.

    Refusal of Republicans and Conservatives to face up to the constitutional issue will doom the Stupid Party to self-destruction. Trump stands foursquare ready with near universal support from the American people to set America on the road to greatness again, and yet all so-called conservatives can do is look for way to denigrate Trump and drive him from the race.

    In a republic you get the government you deserve, and so-called conservatives deserve to reap the heartbreak their stupid divisions have foist on the nation.

    ropelight (e16666)

  37. 29. Cont. We have imminent avalanches of subordinated debt defaults multiple quarters: China, Japan, Italy, Deutsche Bank, et al.

    Loans amount to 4 times collateral.

    There is no cavalry and none on its way.

    DNF (755a85)

  38. so tired of these bickering poopers

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  39. 31. “has queered the entire race.”

    How is our current state more horrible than the last couple of primary seasons. That we burned through actual talent and will prove to have gained nothing?

    This is exactly the GOPe game plan, to prove you phuckwits are a disaster(see 25.).

    In the end they get their way and you get NOTHING!

    DNF (755a85)

  40. canada turd crud is now reaping what he has sown. The american people unlike crud suppository can now see this slimy crud for what he is SCUM! As lincoln sais you can only fool some of the people like crud suppository all of the time.

    trump for president (505407)

  41. Tactical. If Rubio voters were not vulnerable to Cruz pilfering, then Rubio wouldn’t have switched to a “day one” end to Obamagration in the English language version.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  42. There is one person running who is one record as being worse than Trump, Rubio, Cruz, Sanders and all others in the race combined, on every issue that I care about.

    I am voting for that person’s opponent, as all of us here should be.

    Maybe we can tone things down a bit so that opponent, who ever it is, is not so badly damaged that they can’t get through the general.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  43. Now the BS is Rubio and Cruz should hook up to stop Trump.

    Faust’s bargain.

    DNF (755a85)

  44. canada turd crud is now reaping what he has sown. The american people unlike crud suppository can now see this slimy crud for what he is SCUM! As lincoln sais you can only fool some of the people like crud suppository all of the time.

    It’s the eloquence of this guy’s supporters and their rational, well-structured arguments like the above that never cease to amaze me. Then again, they are an accurate reflection of their weird, narcissistic, petty and vulgar candidate.

    JVW (9e3c77)

  45. 42. We all ended in voting for Romany, an electoral beatdown.

    Try to keep up.

    DNF (755a85)

  46. 42. We all ended in voting for Romany, an electoral beatdown.

    Try to keep up.
    DNF (755a85) — 2/23/2016 @ 12:01 pm

    Speak for yourself. I didn’t.

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17)

  47. If Republican candidates and their supporters can’t take factual or emotional criticism, they need to find something else to do with their time.

    DRJ (15874d)

  48. 42. We all ended in voting for Romany, an electoral beatdown.

    Try to keep up.
    DNF (755a85) — 2/23/2016 @ 12:01 pm

    You mean the guy Romney who called for “self-deportation” of illegals and lost Hispanics by 50 points to Obama? That guy?

    If Romney is losing Hispanics by 50 points on calls for “self-deportation,” how badly is Cruz going to lose on calls for door-to-door searches and forced deportations??

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  49. If the same people voted in every election and the usdues/events never changed, then that might make sense.

    DRJ (15874d)

  50. Re: #48: This is a good example of the Through-The-Looking-Glass denial of the GOP-E. Is it more plausible that Romney lost because people thought he would really enforce American law and actually deport illegal aliens, or because all the ABR conservative voters knew he was a two-faced liar, and wouldn’t do any such thing?

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17)

  51. Last Presidential election, the right wing pundit class purists went after Romney because he wasn’t pure on health care — he signed a bill supported by 90% of his state’s legislature on so-called universe health care! (If Romney had vetoed the bill on principle — no doubt as a Ted Cruz would have — Massachusetts today would have an even more left-wing, statist-controlled health care system, which would have been implemented by veto override; but never mind that.)

    Because Romney has signed this bill, he was tainted. He wasn’t pure. So they refused to get fully behind him.

    Romney’s reaction was to adopt the most right wing position of any candidate on immigration. The result: Romney lost Hispanics by 50 points, resulting in losses in key swing States.

    The right wing pundit class then blamed Romney’s support of Romneycare in Massachusetts for “suppressing the white vote” — even though Romney had produced a record white vote in the key swing states of Florida, Virginia and Colorado — all of which he lost, because he was beaten to pulp with Hispanics. In the one losing swing state where Romney didn’t do great with whites (Ohio), Romney’s performance had everything to do with Obama’s “Kill Mitt” strategy. Indeed, the hugely popular GOP governor of Ohio has fully embraced Obamacare in a way Romney never would have.

    The point being is that we now have this highly influential right wing pundit class that is demanding ever more fealty to fringe, dogmatic positions on the Right — deporting 20M+ illegals, shutting down the government over PP, shutting down the government over the Iran deal, etc., etc. — which are highly unpopular with the electorate and would most likely make it impossible for the candidate to win in a General Election.

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  52. There is no cavalry and none on its way.

    DNF (755a85) — 2/23/2016 @ 11:45 am

    Could very well be true, but following this has been akin to watching continental drift…

    Colonel Haiku (cc8f3a)

  53. Re: #48: This is a good example of the Through-The-Looking-Glass denial of the GOP-E. Is it more plausible that Romney lost because people thought he would really enforce American law and actually deport illegal aliens, or because all the ABR conservative voters knew he was a two-faced liar, and wouldn’t do any such thing?
    Luke Stywalker (a31c17) — 2/23/2016 @ 12:27 pm

    Considering Romney produced record white turnout in Florida, Virginia and Colorado — and still manage to lose those key swing states …..

    yeah, it’s pretty easy to tell what is more “plausible.”

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  54. Even more hilarious: The case of W. Bush, who spent two terms pandering wholesale to “Hispanics” (if there is any such voting group). Polls indicated that the increase in the number of ‘Hispanics’ voting for him was something 1.2%, if memory serves. The subsequent effect on core Republican voters was blithely dismissed, swept under the rug by E analysts. That’s a real winning strategy, right there.

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17)

  55. Is it more plausible that Romney lost because people thought he would really enforce American law and actually deport illegal aliens, or because all the ABR conservative voters knew Romney was a two-faced liar, and wouldn’t do any such thing?
    Luke Stywalker (a31c17) — 2/23/2016 @ 12:27 pm

    By the way, what is your basis for claiming Romney is a two-faced liar?

    He never claimed he would “actually deport illegal aliens.” He called for enforcing the laws and for “self-deportation.” What possible basis do you have for claiming he was lying about this??

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  56. Even more hilarious: The case of W. Bush, who spent two terms pandering wholesale to “Hispanics” (if there is any such voting group). Polls indicated that the increase in the number of ‘Hispanics’ voting for him was something 1.2%, if memory serves. The subsequent effect on core Republican voters was blithely dismissed, swept under the rug by E analysts. That’s a real winning strategy, right there.
    Luke Stywalker (a31c17) — 2/23/2016 @ 12:36 pm

    So now we are just entering the realm of plain reality denial. Awesome.

    In 2004, Bush won 44% of the Hispanic vote.

    In 2012, Romney won 27% of the Hispanic vote.

    Now … what is the difference between these two. Oh, right! Bush was elected president. Romney lost.

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  57. “Trump stands foursquare ready with near universal support from the American people to set America on the road to greatness again, and yet all so-called conservatives can do is look for way to denigrate Trump and drive him from the race.”

    – ropelight

    Hahahahahahaha… that is the most fantastic piece of wishful thinking that I have seen in many a moon.

    Leviticus (efada1)

  58. Considering Romney produced record white turnout in Florida, Virginia and Colorado — and still manage to lose those key swing states …..

    Do you have a link for that?

    DRJ (15874d)

  59. From: http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/29/report-2004-turnout-numbers-would-have-elected-romney/

    Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney would have won the presidency if the white and black turnout rates had stayed at their 2004 levels, according to a new analysis of 2012 election.

    “The battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida and Colorado would have tipped in favor of Romney, handing him the presidency if the outcome of other states remained the same,” according to The Associated Press’s summary of research by William Frey, an expert at the Brookings Institution.

    Overall turnout declined from 62 percent in 2008 to 58 percent in 2012, Frey reported.

    The drop-off reduced the overall turnout by up to 5 million votes, despite a slight increase in the number of eligible white voters, said the AP report.

    In 2004, the national turnout was 60 percent, and black turnout was significantly below 2008 and 2012 levels.

    The 2012 drop-off was concentrated among GOP-leaning white voters.

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17)

  60. 20.I do think that jrt for Cruz is right. Only Cruz will remove every executive order of Obama’s but not because he won’t cut deals. It’s because Cruz is as much a conservative ideologue as Obama is a leftist ideologue. Which is also the reason Cruz won’t win a general. The left controls everything in case you haven’t noticed. From pre-K (as they love to call it) to Wall Street. From MSNBC to The New York Times. From Modern Family to Cheerio’s commercials.

    And if you think the left isn’t going to register every illegal to vote when they give them their driver license “so they can work and not drive illegally” you’re an idiot.
    Rev. Hoagie

    …………………………….

    If the voters weren’t so stupid they could easily see that Cruz wants to restore what BO has taken from the US. Trump wants to feed his ego. The Pop culture likes the Trump package, but most true conservatives can’t stomach the thought of Trump as president. But if Cruz can tap into Trumps base with Trumps support it would be a win win. Rubio is nothing more than a career politician.

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  61. Is it more plausible that Romney lost because people thought he would really enforce American law and actually deport illegal aliens, or because all the ABR conservative voters knew he was a two-faced liar, and wouldn’t do any such thing?

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17) — 2/23/2016 @ 12:27 pm

    Romney never said he would enact mass deportations. I’m confident he wouldn’t have legalized millions of illegals by executive order.

    Gerald A (7c7ffb)

  62. “U.S. Blues”

    Orange and white, squirrel-top hair
    I’m Donald Trump, what do I care
    I’m still alive, we’re down to five
    ain’t no luck, I don’t give a f*ck.
    Check my polls, it don’t change.
    Stay in the lead, come shine or rain.
    Wave the flag, bag on the hag
    rock the boat, cut yer throat

    Bald-faced lies, reach up touch the sky
    Come November, come and gone, my, oh, my.
    I’m Donald Trump, that’s who I am
    I’m gettin’ yuge, ropelight’s a fan
    Shake the hand that shook the hand
    of P.T. Barnum and that Madoff Man
    whip the Marco, tame the Cruz
    Can you use them ol’ U.S. Blues?

    Colonel Haiku (cc8f3a)

  63. Rubio is a 2 faced turncoat and should be rejected across the board. Otherwise Hillary wins
    ………………………………

    I agree ropelight, But Hillary has tons of blackmail on Trump as well as Rubio

    Cruz is the only man without skeletons for Hillary to drag out.

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  64. Is the difference between a Hispanic and a Latino the same as the difference between a democrat and a socialist?

    Rev. Hoagie™® (f4eb27)

  65. Teh Hispanic is white, teh Latino is teh person of teh color.

    Colonel Haiku (cc8f3a)

  66. By the way, what is your basis for claiming Romney is a two-faced liar?

    Goodness, I can’t imagine why anyone would think that.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOYQUpNVfC4

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17)

  67. Hillary Clinton is to “dragging skeletons” as a dog is to licking its own balls.

    Colonel Haiku (cc8f3a)

  68. @45 DNF:We all ended in voting for Romany, an electoral beatdown.

    Try to keep up.

    The guy who is currently handing Rubio and Cruz their heads, is the guy who is saying the opposite of what they are, and pulling the voters they don’t pull. Not seeing how electoral beatdown is avoided.

    Whatever the market for what Rubio’s selling, Cruz’s is quite a bit smaller.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  69. Hoagie,
    A friend of Puerto Rican descent once asked, “Where is Hispania? Where is Latinland?”

    There is no monolithic block.
    To say all “Hispanics” think the same thing is like saying all Americans speaking English think the same thing.

    MD not exactly in Philly (f76cf2)

  70. So Rubio fan boi’s are bad but Crux fan boi’s are good?

    Oh brother. This site needs to register as a Cruz PAC.

    Rodney King's Spirit (3adc86)

  71. “The point being is that we now have this highly influential right wing pundit class that is demanding ever more fealty to fringe, dogmatic positions on the Right — deporting 20M+ illegals, shutting down the government over PP, shutting down the government over the Iran deal, etc., etc. — which are highly unpopular with the electorate and would most likely make it impossible for the candidate to win in a General Election.”

    Yeah, it’s that whole Republican platform thing. It’s just a recipe for disaster. With principles like that, those guys can’t possibly convince Americans to vote for them. Why even bother.

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17)

  72. @jrt for Cruz:But if Cruz can tap into Trumps base with Trumps support it would be a win win. Rubio is nothing more than a career politician.

    Not going to happen. Trump doesn’t want to share, and Trump’s supporters aren’t going to vote for a real Republican anyway even if Trump asks them to.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  73. “Whatever the market for what Rubio’s selling, Cruz’s is quite a bit smaller.”

    You mean the number of voters who actually pay attention to what a candidate did, as opposed to one that makes warm friendly speeches telling them what he’s going to do? Yeah, you’re probably right, a small minority.

    Luke Stywalker (a31c17)

  74. @Luke Stywalker:Yeah, you’re probably right, a small minority.

    I’m not sure if you are agreeing with me ironically at this point–but I’m pretty pessimistic about this whole thing, assuming the worst, and trying to figure out what I can live with.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  75. 66.By the way, what is your basis for claiming Romney is a two-faced liar?

    Romney was a political hack

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  76. I voted for Newt. I didn’t like Romney.

    Newt was the best we had in 2012

    Now 2016….4 more years of BO destruction and we need much more conservative and better than Newt and that is what gave us Cruz. The need for better.

    Trump should back Cruz if he wants to be smart.

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  77. Marco the mythomaniac.

    mg (31009b)

  78. 70.So Rubio fan boi’s are bad but Crux fan boi’s are good?

    Oh brother. This site needs to register as a Cruz PAC.
    …………………………………………………………

    Ask anyone from Florida….Rubio used the tea party to get elected and then cut the deals in DC.

    Rubio CANT get reelected in Florida…He needs the presidency to survive.

    Ask anyone from Texas and they will and do support Cruz as he did what he was elected to do.

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  79. We already have a falsifier in chief no need for a collaborationist.

    mg (31009b)

  80. From: http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/29/report-2004-turnout-numbers-would-have-elected-romney/

    Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney would have won the presidency if the white and black turnout rates had stayed at their 2004 levels, according to a new analysis of 2012 election.

    “The battleground states of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, Florida and Colorado would have tipped in favor of Romney, handing him the presidency if the outcome of other states remained the same,” according to The Associated Press’s summary of research by William Frey, an expert at the Brookings Institution.

    Overall turnout declined from 62 percent in 2008 to 58 percent in 2012, Frey reported.

    The drop-off reduced the overall turnout by up to 5 million votes, despite a slight increase in the number of eligible white voters, said the AP report.

    In 2004, the national turnout was 60 percent, and black turnout was significantly below 2008 and 2012 levels.

    The 2012 drop-off was concentrated among GOP-leaning white voters.
    Luke Stywalker (a31c17) — 2/23/2016 @ 12:53 pm

    Yeah, this article has already been debunked.

    Here is Frey’s actual study.

    Here are Frey’s actual findings:

    #1 Even assuming a suppressed minority turnout rate and high national white turnout rate (mirroring 2004) — the popular vote is still a tossup:

    “I assumed that the national electorate had the size and racial and ethnic composition of the new 2010 Census survey and applied to it the more ‘Republican favorable’ turnout rates of 2004 for each racial and ethnic group. This of course resulted in more white voters and fewer minority voters than actually occurred in 2012. To these voter populations, I applied the actual 2012 voting margins. The result of this exercise was a small 2012 Romney win of 9,000 votes—a virtual tossup. Thus it might be said that the high minority and low white turnout rates of 2012 were responsible for Obama taking the national vote, irrespective of the changing demography of the electorate.”

    #2 The minority vote (blacks and Hispanics) ultimately put Obama over the top:

    “I then conducted the same exercise assuming the ‘low’ 2004 turnout rates for blacks, Hispanics and Asians, but with the actual 2012 white turnout rates. Under this scenario, the 2012 election is close with Obama ahead, but barely. So we might say that the high turnout of minorities, and blacks especially, did make a difference in the outcome of the 2012 election.’

    Contrary to the Daily Caller article, Frey did not do an independent analysis of the key swing states of Florida, Virginia and Colorado. But here are the actual results:

    Florida:

    2004: Bush received 3,964,522 total votes
    2008: McCain received 4,045,624 total votes
    2012: Romney received 4,163,447 actual votes

    In 2004, Bush won whites (70% of the vote) by 15 points and Hispanics (15% of the vote) by 12 points.

    In 2012, Romney won whites (67% of the vote) by 24 points and lost Hispanics by 21 points.

    Thus, despite getting 5% more raw vote in Florida in 2012 than Bush got in 2004, and despite winning whites by 9 points more than Bush won them in 2012 … Romney still lost Florida, even though he got close 430,000 more raw votes from whites than Bush did in 2004.

    And there can be no good faith argument why: Hispanics went from +12 GOP to +21 Dem.

    Virginia:

    2004: Bush received 1,716,959 total votes
    2008: McCain received 1,725,005 total votes
    2012: Romney received 1,822,522 actual votes

    In 2004, Bush won white voters (77% of the vote) by 17 points and lost Hispanic votes (8%) by 9 points.

    In 2012, Romney won white voters (70% of the vote) by 24 points and lost Hispanic votes (5%) by 31 points!

    Thus, despite increasing Bush’s raw vote by over 6% and despite a reduced Hispanic turnout, Romney still lost a State Bush won in 2004, even those he increased the raw white total by close to 220,000 raw votes.

    Ohio:

    2004: Bush received 2,859,768 total votes
    2008: McCain received 2,677,820 total votes
    2012: Romney received 2,661,433 actual votes

    (Keep in mind that Ohio is where Obama employed the “Kill Mitt” strategy; Ohio also was unique in having a very strong economy in 2012 as a result of fracking.)

    In 2004, Bush won white voters (86% of the vote) by 12 points, while getting 16% of the State’s black vote.

    In 2012, Romney won white voters (79% of the vote) by 16 points, while getting only 4% of the State’s black vote.

    Colorado:

    2004: Bush received 1,101,255 total votes
    2008: McCain received 1,073,629 total votes
    2012: Romney received 1,185,243 actual votes

    Romney actually got close to 38,000 more white votes than Bush did in 2004. The difference is that Romney lost the Hispanic vote by close to 190,000 votes in Colorado alone.

    Conclusion:

    Romney received significantly higher raw white votes in key swing States — Florida (+430K), Virginia (+220K), Colorado (+38K) — but still lost these key swing States because of margins with the Hispanic vote.

    Amerigo Chattin (ccd22a)

  81. Chuck Grassley is now referring to the “No hearing/vote on Supreme Court nominee during an election season” as The Biden Rules.

    I love it.

    Basically, the GOP just always say, “We agree with Joe Biden’s long-standing Senate rule of not having a Supreme Court hearing and vote corrupted by the election season.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  82. Sounds good, CS. They will be undone by their own tongues.

    Colonel Haiku (cc8f3a)

  83. Cruz Supporter,

    I think you’re wrong.

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  84. #83. A Patterico must read….article

    jrt for Cruz (bc7456)

  85. 48. And Roobs won’t win Hispanics either. As a group they are classic Democrats looking to government for workers rights, entitlements, urban, nominally religious, gregarious, ill-educated, yada, yada.

    The GOPe line is pure misdirection. Government funds the underclass, the underclass buys chit.

    Even the bartender waitress economy has peaked and is in decline.

    The sad fact is this model, fiscal plumping of GDP with debt created from thin air is crashing worldwide and within two years the bottom falls out.

    Guess who goes hungry.

    DNF (755a85)

  86. I’m sorry, but anyone who really believe Cruz’s has a legitimate shot at winning the Presidency in 2016 should be putting a mounting of cash on the guy in these prediction markets:

    His odds range from 33:1 (at betfair) to 66:1 (at bet365 and betfred): http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/us-politics/us-presidential-election-2016/winner

    Cruz’s odds are running at the same as Biden’s, and about twice as long as Bloomberg’s.

    At predictwise, he is at 0.8%: http://predictwise.com/politics/2016-president-winner — you could literally get a return of 125:1 by betting on him.

    So, if you really believe Cruz has a shot, you should be pouring money in on this.

    Alan Miller (bbfc4b)

  87. 76. “Trump should back Cruz if he wants to be smart.”

    But he’s not smart and Cruz will not unify(as things stand) those voting in the primaries.

    You’re just bent on throwing the only new elector blood out with populist chimera.

    No way you get what you’re after.

    DNF (755a85)

  88. 48. And Roobs won’t win Hispanics either. As a group they are classic Democrats looking to government for workers rights, entitlements, urban, nominally religious, gregarious, ill-educated, yada, yada.

    The GOPe line is pure misdirection. Government funds the underclass, the underclass buys chit.

    Even the bartender waitress economy has peaked and is in decline.

    The sad fact is this model, fiscal plumping of GDP with debt created from thin air is crashing worldwide and within two years the bottom falls out.

    Guess who goes hungry.

    DNF (755a85) — 2/23/2016 @ 2:42 pm

    There is a world’s worth of differencing between “winning” Hispanics and losing them by 50% in key swing States like Florida, Virginia and Colorado, as Romney did — costing him the election.

    If Rubio just kept the margin to 20%, and essentially repeated Romney’s performance among white, he’d almost certainly win those three States, plus Ohio (once the black vote returned to its usual amount).

    Alan Miller (bbfc4b)

  89. Did anyone notice that even Jar Jar got cheers when he called Cruz & Rubio on their Senate subcommittee motion drill-downs? Does anyone really think that this is good for ANYONE’S campaign (except possibly for Trump’s)? Anything that gets Kasich a LIKE has got to be a bad move.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  90. 65.Teh Hispanic is white, teh Latino is teh person of teh color.

    There is no monolithic block.
    To say all “Hispanics” think the same thing is like saying all Americans speaking English think the same thing.

    If Hispanics are white what is their ancestry? If Latinos are of color, what color and what’s their ancestry?
    If there is no monolithic block why do politicians, the media and advocacy groups call them by special names?
    What is La Raza and is it Hispanic or Latino?
    Who is this Ramos guy and who does he represent?
    Is Cruz Hispanic or Latino?
    Is Rubio Hispanic or Latino?
    Finally, how has the democrat party managed to slice and dice America into so many special interest groups one can hardly recognize a united country?

    Rev. Hoagie™® (f4eb27)

  91. Rubio will win “Hispanics” in Florida, since they are all Cubans. He will lose them in New York as they are all Puerto Rican. It is hard to say how it will play in the Southwest. There is an “only Nixon could go to China” aspect to this. Hillary would never accept any immigration bill the GOP Congress passed. Rubio would. It is also not clear how Mexican-American CITIZENS feel about the illegals. They may LIKE the idea that they have to pay big penalties and never get to vote. After all, most of them did things the hard way.

    The only thing that is clear is that you cannot use prior elections to predict this.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  92. well no there is a sizable puerto rican contingent in central florida, and smaller dominican and other subsets in south florida,

    narciso (732bc0)

  93. 91. Romany did like 11% better than McVain with indie swingers but lost that margin and more with the base, blue-collar whites for example. What a surprise.

    Now Romany the younger, Hispanic shape shifter, will do the same in attracting new Latino voters, guaranteed.

    Legals or illegals the Donks will be all over them, paying their way to vote early and often.

    ‘If he could’ the GOPe would have something for the $90 Million they’ve spent on Roobs already.

    Just yesterday it was reported 70% of Republicans big donors have tossed money Hillary’s way as well. How much to buy 5 Million illegals, $500 Million?

    DNF (755a85)

  94. 91. Romany did like 11% better than McVain with indie swingers but lost that margin and more with the base, blue-collar whites for example. What a surprise.

    DNF (755a85) — 2/23/2016 @ 3:07 pm

    This absolutely false for key swing States that he lost.

    For example, in Florida, Romney got 430,000 more white votes in 2012 than Bush got in 2004.

    The difference is that Bush actually won the Hispanic vote in Florida, whereas Romney lost it big.

    Alan Miller (bbfc4b)

  95. In 2012, Romney lost the Hispanic vote in Florida by 21 points.

    But 2 years earlier, Rubio won the Hispanic vote in Florida 55-25-20. He got the same percentage of Hispanic vote as he got of the white vote.

    Alan Miller (bbfc4b)

  96. liar liar
    boots on fire

    mg (31009b)

  97. 98. And guess who’s way out in front in FL?

    You have failed to make your point for, at minimum, the following reasons:

    1) Romany’s performance with indie swingers in FL.

    2) The party affliation, voting habits, etc., of these ‘whites’ Were they Democrats, non-voters in 2004? I’ll give you they were racist.

    DNF (755a85)

  98. He got the same percentage of Hispanic vote as he got of the white vote.

    I thought Hispanics are white?

    Rev. Hoagie™® (f4eb27)

  99. 101. Only if they don’t shoot bagmen.

    DNF (755a85)

  100. I thought Hispanics are white?

    Rev. Hoagie™® (f4eb27) — 2/23/2016 @ 3:29 pm

    Not according to people identifying themselves to exit pollsters.

    Alan Miller (bbfc4b)

  101. 102. Make that the otherway around.

    DNF (755a85)

  102. @ Alan Miller: What kind of idiot would bet on politics this year?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  103. 98. And guess who’s way out in front in FL?

    You have failed to make your point for, at minimum, the following reasons:

    1) Romany’s performance with indie swingers in FL.

    2) The party affliation, voting habits, etc., of these ‘whites’ Were they Democrats, non-voters in 2004? I’ll give you they were racist.

    DNF (755a85) — 2/23/2016 @ 3:28 pm

    This is just a version of filibustering.

    Romney killed it with white voters in Florida. A $430K improvement over Bush’s performance in 2004 … and a much better showing than Rubio in 2010.

    You simply can’t win the Presidency any longer by ceding the Hispanic vote in places like Florida and Colorado. It doesn’t matter how well you do with white voters.

    Ted Cruz has now come out for a policy which will be filtered through the MSM as door-to-door deportations. It doesn’t matter if that’s what Cruz was intending to say.

    But it really doesn’t matter anyway, since the math doesn’t make sense for him winning the GOP nomination — which is why he is at 25:1 (at best) in prediction markets.

    Cruz isn’t going to win. He simply hasn’t been able to crossover to blue collar Evangelicals, like he needed to.

    So Cruz supporters need to take a long look in the mirror. Are they going to continue to hammer the next best conservative candidate, who is eminently more electable in a general election, for refusing to drop fringe positions? Or are they going to suck it up and try to win an election?

    Alan Miller (bbfc4b)

  104. @ Alan Miller: What kind of idiot would bet on politics this year?

    Beldar (fa637a) — 2/23/2016 @ 3:40 pm

    People bet on politics all the time. These markets are much more arrange than polls.

    Alan Miller (bbfc4b)

  105. “Hispanic” or “Latino”,
    Afaik
    Refers in general to people who have Spanish as their primary language and a culture somewhat derived from a Spanish Catholic root, which also has echoes of Islam in it.
    (“fatalismo”=Allah’s will”)(unlike the Protestant Christian view that ascribes more to choice and the possibility to take action that will result in change).
    With varying degrees of indigenous peoples and African slave background in the mix.

    Some”Hispanics” are fair skinned even with freckles. Some are far darker than Obama.

    A well e

    MD not exactly in Philly (deca84)

  106. Alan Miller,

    Under your theory, if Rubio actually is more electable, it’s only because everyone “knows” he’s really in favor of amnesty and thus he can win as much or more Hispanic vote than Bush. That may be true but, if so, let him do it without my support. I’m not going to give the Democrats 11 million new voters just so Rubio can be President.

    DRJ (15874d)

  107. And Cruz was right that the votes are out there for someone who isn’t an establishment Republican — which, like it to not, is what Rubio is now. Unfortunately, Trump is getting those voters inoted of Cruz. Maybe Trump will ride them to the nomination. If so, it won’t be much consolation for Cruz people like me, but it helps a little.

    DRJ (15874d)

  108. Oops, hit send by accident

    LaRaza speaks for all Hispanics like NOW speaks for all women, or Jackson and Sharpton speak for all blacks

    When we studied Spanish in Costa Rica years ago, some of the people in the central area around San Jose looked down on Ticos on the other side of the mountain range.

    MD not exactly in Philly (deca84)

  109. MD in Philly,

    I think you hit it when you suggested that language is more the defining aspect of being classified as “Hispanic” or “Latino” than race.
    There’s lots of people of Italian and German descent in Argentina. They may grow up speaking Spanish, but they’re as “caucasian” as Ozzie and Harriet.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  110. Maybe Rubio is the one who should look in the mirror. If he is as strong as his supporters say, he can prove it by winning the SEC primary. Until then, he’s no more electable than Cruz … and arguably less.

    DRJ (15874d)

  111. Tonight will be the night the mainstream media tries very hard to pretend that there’s no Texas, nor any primary election there in a week.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  112. Alan – any tip on a political parlay would be appreciated.
    both nominees and v.p. picks with the overall winner
    Do you know the odds of Hilary going to jail, or coughing to death?

    Jimmy the Greek (31009b)

  113. @ Alan Miller: I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have formed that as a question. Here:

    People who bet on politics are idiots. The politics futures market is idiotic.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  114. DNF,

    I’m just curious, why do you always spell Romney’s name “Romany”? Is there an inside joke or word play that isn’t obvious to me?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  115. If Cruz loses in Texas is his campaign toast? Same question applies to a Rubio loss in Florida.

    JVW (9e3c77)

  116. Just kidding Beldar. I agree anyone wagering on this election seems excessive.

    mg (31009b)

  117. Mr. Miller,

    The late Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, for whom Ted Cruz served as a law clerk (after getting recommendations from both the most conservative and the most liberal members of the Harvard Law faculty), was a notorious compulsive better. Not a gambler, but a better. It was a distinction he made repeatedly to his clerks (as he took their money): Gamblers put at risk nontrivial amounts of money, typically in casinos or with bookies. Rehnquist’s bets were almost always $1, and were always with friends. But he’d bet on anything. He’d bet on his infamous tennis matches with his clerks (Cruz took lessons before starting his clerkship, to small avail). As Justice O’Connor recalled:

    “The chief was a betting man,” she told the lawmakers, judges, lawyers and family friends who filled the church yesterday. “He enjoyed making wagers about most things: the outcome of football or baseball games, elections, even the amount of snow that would fall in the courtyard at the court.”

    He also regularly bet with his fellow justices, clerks, and friends on elections. But he famously went to the trouble of cancelling all of his outstanding $1 bets on the 2000 presidential election when it became apparent that election was headed to a court fight.

    That’s because the Chief Justice was a serious man. Serious people don’t take bets on politics seriously. It’s a trivial passtime; an amusement. And serious people certainly don’t take the views of gamblers on politics seriously.

    I suggest you bet instead on the amounts of snow that fall, Mr. Miller.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  118. I think you hit it when you suggested that language is more the defining aspect of being classified as “Hispanic” or “Latino” than race.

    So someone from Madrid is a Hispanic cause he speaks Spanish? But what’s a Latino already?

    There’s lots of people of Italian and German descent in Argentina.

    Cruz Supporter, I believe they’re called “war criminals”.

    Rev. Hoagie™® (f4eb27)

  119. @ JVW (#118): Hugh Hewitt pressed Cruz on this point (whether Texas is must-win for him) yesterday:

    I was on “Meet the Press” yesterday when Chuck Todd asked you if you needed to win Texas and you said very amply, “I’m not going to tell you my campaign strategy,” but I’m curious Ted Cruz, can you really afford to lose Texas and still have a path to the nomination? Don’t you have to win Texas?
    TC: Texas is my home. We are very strong in Texas. We have tremendous support there. I am confident we are going to do well in Texas and I believe we are going to do well across Super Tuesday, but that ‘s going to be up to the voters, we’re taking nothing for granted. We are working to earn every vote. I will note, one, the dynamics we’re seeing, Hugh, coming out of South Carolina, that at this point, the race is effectively a three-man race between me, Donald Trump, and Marco Rubio. And only one campaign has a credible path to beating Donald Trump, and that’s us. If you look at history, no one has ever won the nomination in modern times without winning one fo the first three states: Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina. We’re the only campaign that has done so, along with Donald Trump. Donald has won two, I’ve won one, and beyond that, it was striking that on the Sunday shows, George Stephanopoulos asked Rubio when he was going to win a state. They said, “Look, you couldn’t win Iowa, you couldn’t win New Hampshire, you couldn’t South Carolina. When can you win a state?” And his answer was, “March 14th, the state of Florida.” That is all but conceiting, he’s going to lose Nevada, he’s going to lose every state across the country on Super Tuesday, he’s going to lose all the races on March 5th, all the races on March 8th, and his plan is to wait until 25 states have voted and roughly half of the delegates have been allocated and then finally win. That’s not a path to victory, and that’s why Hugh, we’re seeing so many conservatives uniting behind our campaign because ours is the only the campaign that can beat Donald Trump which is why Donald is attacking us non-stop, and I am also the only candidate remaining in this race as a proven conservative leading the fight against Obamacare, leading the fight for a flat tax, and to abolish the IRS, leading the fight against amnesty, and leading the fight for the Constitution and Bill of Rights. I think that’s why conservatives are coming so strongly behind our campaigns, why Libertarians are uniting behind us.

    HH: But in your home state, Senator, I’ll just press you because we got 30 seconds. Do you have to win Texas?

    TC: I believe we will do very well in Texas and we are fighting to earn every vote in the state of Texas and I hope and believe we will do well.

    HH: Alright, Senator Cruz, I will see you on the debate stage in Houston. Thanks for spending time on a busy day.

    I wish he’d just said, “Yes, I have to win Texas, and I will.”

    The more interesting question to me is whether Rubio could win Florida, and I think no one has a clue what the answer to that question is yet. If Rubio doesn’t win outright in at least one state, somewhere, during the SEC primaries on May 1, what’s his justification for staying in until March 15? And how does he avoid losing in his home state unless he’s demonstrated elsewhere that he’s a viable candidate? Will even Florideans who voted for him over Charlie Crist think they’re wasting a vote on him? It seems to me that there’s reasonable doubt on all of those issues.

    I have zero doubt that Cruz will win Texas, though, and by a commanding margin.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  120. With all the establishment hacks backing Rubio, he may never win a state.

    mg (31009b)

  121. Rev Hoagie, oh, I totally get the Nazi and Italian Fascist refuge in Argentina. I know the Mossad went down there and caught Adolph Eichmann.
    But well prior to that period of history, there was a lot of European migration to Argentina.

    That story about tracking down Eichmann is absolutely amazing. The TNT cable channel made a movie about it, starring Robert Duvall as Eichmann.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  122. JVW,

    Cruz has to win Texas, and he has to get over 50% and win it outright if Trump wins all the other SEC states. I don’t know if Cruz can get over 50% with so many candidates still in the race. I think he could if the race were just between Cruz and Trump, but it’s not. I also think Cruz might win one and posdibly two other SEC states.

    DRJ (15874d)

  123. Alan Miller,

    Under your theory, if Rubio actually is more electable, it’s only because everyone “knows” he’s really in favor of amnesty.

    DRJ (15874d) — 2/23/2016 @ 4:02 pm

    That’s not at all what I am saying.

    You’re looking for any reason possible to continue supporting Cruz, even though he has no chance.

    Alan Miller (bbfc4b)

  124. One day walking outside of San Jose (in San Francisco de Dos Rios) I crossed paths with someone who looked very Chinese…who spoke Spanish. Chines came across the ocean to the Americas south of California as well.

    And for some reason I do not know (except that Argentina has often had a terrible economy with rampant inflation), there was an exodus of Argentines to Sweden before the Muslims started pooring in.

    So someone from Madrid is a Hispanic cause he speaks Spanish? But what’s a Latino already?

    You didn’t pay close enough attention. Latinos are from Latinland, and Hispanics are from Hispania.
    And that is the most definitive answer you will ever get.

    I think people from Spain itself would call themselves Spanish or Spaniards.

    People from Texas and other places correct me…
    I think most educated people from various countries that speak Spanish would not refer to themselves as Hispanic of Latino, they would be Costa Ricans, Hondurans, Colombians etc.
    My guess is that “Hispanic” or “Latino” are phrases originally used by English speaking Americans to refer to people who spoke Spanish, who were often brown in skin tone from the mix of darker skinned Mediterranean folk and indigenous peoples,
    self-identification as Hispanic or Latino may have been secondary to political organizers telling people that is what they were to turn them into a political block.

    trying to describe what “latinos” are like is like trying to describe what someone from “England” is like, when you are referring to the Scots, Irish, or Welsh…

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  125. Which is why the Spanish vote in FL is not like the Spanish vote in NY is not like the Spanish vote in TX.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  126. I think if Rubio does not win FL and/or Cruz does not win in TX, it will be very hard for others to take them seriously.

    I think they will both be full court press forward until those two.
    If Kasich makes it to Ohio, if he does not win Ohio he likewise is out.

    I’m thinking Cruz has a good chance to win TX, I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t. If Rubio doesn’t win FL, so much for him being electable. Maybe Kasich hopes to win Ohio to make a case for being the VP candidate. IDK

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  127. Meanwhile Kasich and Carson will be stinking up the debate Thursday night. They should be in the undercard.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  128. 106. So Trump wins Latino(inclusive) vote over Roobs in NV.

    What you know isn’t worth the saying, now is it?

    DNF (755a85)

  129. 117. I don’t understand why partisans offer arguments to support their obvious self-interest.

    Everyone can see from the tick boxes those they hope to attract, why then blow the creation in the target counterpart’s mind that like them the loyalist is intelligent and possesses integrity?

    Why not just hide your stupidity and allow others to think you minimally wise? Eh, CS?

    DNF (755a85)


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