Patterico's Pontifications

1/23/2016

Donald Trump: My Voters Are Unreasonable Fanatics

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:17 pm



Trump voters, here is Donald Trump calling you unreasonable fanatics, right to your face:

I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue, and shoot somebody, and I wouldn’t lose any voters, OK? It’s like incredible.

For once I agree with Donald Trump!

By the way, as long as I am laying down markers, I’ll lay down another one: I think Cruz still wins Iowa.

There. I said it.

P.S. For non-Vine users: if you want sound, hover your cursor near the bottom of the video, and when you see the volume icon pop up on the bottom right, click on it. Then, when you get sick of hearing this narcissistic blowhard boast about how fanatically unreasonable his voters are, repeat.

UPDATE: Here’s me from November 22, 2015:

Trump supporters will of course be unfazed — just as they would be unfazed if Trump announced that he was going to sacrifice the first-born of every household to The Great God Clarence. Just as they would be unfazed if Trump knocked at their door and took a drunken swing at them for not buying local. “I deserved that,” Trump supporters would say, rubbing their sore jaw. “Honey, go get our firstborn.”

Now he’s saying it. Because he knows he can.

UPDATE: A Trump supporter on Twitter sent me the link to a longer clip with context:

He says it shows he was only talking about the media’s characterization of his supporters. Ehhhh . . . kinda sorta, but not really. My interpretation is it’s a little of both. Anyway, thought it would only be fair to provide what his supporters argue is context — and which may arguably be, to some small degree.

378 Responses to “Donald Trump: My Voters Are Unreasonable Fanatics”

  1. his tie matches the stripe in the flag

    my goodness the symbolism here is just gorgeous

    just gorgeous

    happyfeet (831175)

  2. Is cannabis legal in Chicago?

    mg (31009b)

  3. not nearly as legal as it was in los angeles

    happyfeet (831175)

  4. UPDATE: Here’s me from November 22, 2015:

    Trump supporters will of course be unfazed — just as they would be unfazed if Trump announced that he was going to sacrifice the first-born of every household to The Great God Clarence. Just as they would be unfazed if Trump knocked at their door and took a drunken swing at them for not buying local. “I deserved that,” Trump supporters would say, rubbing their sore jaw. “Honey, go get our firstborn.”

    Now he’s saying it. Because he knows he can.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  5. it’s so unfair how his voters really like him

    happyfeet (831175)

  6. Some people get off on abasement. What can you do?

    JVW (d60453)

  7. “I deserved that,” Trump supporters would say, rubbing their sore jaw. “Honey, go get our firstborn.”

    Not just that, but it appears they would also be saying, “Finally! Someone with the guts to do that! At long last somebody won’t kowtow to the whole P.C. ‘don’t go killing the firstborn’ crap.” We’re back to winning again.

    JVW (d60453)

  8. Donald Trump’s like the guy in high school running for student body president. He promises to make the high school great again. If you elect him, everything will be great.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  9. it’s so unfair creepy how his voters really like worship him

    happyfeet (831175) —1/23/2016 @ 1:56 pm

    FIFY

    Sean (221079)

  10. you did not fix it you made it suck

    happyfeet (831175)

  11. They must be if his followers swallow,“The Democrats are going to sue if he (Cruz) ever got the nomination within two days. There have already been two lawsuits filed, but they don’t have standing. I have standing to sue. Can you imagine if I did it? Should I do it just for fun?” Trump added that he believes that he will defeat Cruz without the need of a legal challenge to his candidacy, which is why he probably will not sue. “It’s probably why I want to save the legal fees,” he said of his confidence in winning the GOP nomination If I thought it was going to matter, maybe I would do it, maybe I wouldn’t.” – The Hill

    1. Trump recognizes a Constitutional quandary that he uniquely could clarify.
    2. Would do so only on a lark because of his wonderful sense of humor, to amuse and entertain his followers. Or, he is too cheap too act on our behalf.
    3. We are left to wonder what truly motivates him. Principle(s) that most US would recognize does not seem to be on the list.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  12. The truth sucks.

    Sean (221079)

  13. happyfeet, when did you become a dishonest troll?

    Patterico (5f0ab0)

  14. Our friend happyfeet is a true conservative. That’s why he’s supporting a candidate who supported Obama in 2008.
    It’s all due to conservatism, and the desire to makes things more conservative. (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  15. i am NOT a dishonest troll that’s a complete misnomer i’m ready to move forward past these dismal food stamp years and the git r done candidate for that would appear to be Mr. The Donald

    that’s just the math so far

    happyfeet (831175)

  16. Trump is brazenly mocking and belittling his supporters, and it won’t even matter. He knows what sort of power this represents. His supporters look like victims of a bizarrely quasi-political Stockholm Syndrome.

    Dana (86e864)

  17. Where there are many words, there is sin.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  18. Trump is brazenly mocking and belittling the impotence of the media i think.

    Love it.

    happyfeet (831175)

  19. cnn lol

    Trump’s comments come as the debate about gun violence in America has taken center stage in American political discourse amid several highly publicized mass shootings.

    Trump has repeatedly touted his strong support for the Second Amendment and slammed President Barack Obama’s recent use of executive orders to expand the reach of background checks needed to purchase a gun.

    The brash billionaire’s comments also come less than two months after two ISIS-inspired terrorists killed 14 people in San Bernardino, California, and ISIS-linked attacks killed 130 in Paris. In response, Trump has called for fewer gun restrictions and a harder stance on terrorism.

    Trump has joked about killing people before.

    happyfeet (831175)

  20. And the wages of sin is Death.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  21. Gun control has nothing to do with terrorism and to allow the left to conjoin the two is perilous to our Freedom.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  22. It’s getting a bit like O’Reilly and Teh Factor around here: All Trump, All The Time.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  23. You know, Hitler comparisons can be annoying when they seem to trivialize the awful deeds he committed.

    But…

    There is a flip side.

    After a century where tens of millions died because of nationalistic cults of personality, we’d be really, really stupid and reckless not to be on the lookout for danger signs of similar figures emerging.

    This is one of the danger signs.

    Patterico (5f0ab0)

  24. happyfeet, you’ve been seduced by the power of mass media.

    This time, his name is Donald, rather than Pepsi, Taco Bell, Macy’s, or Apple.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  25. Can we please, please, please talk about something other than Trump for a change. I thought Patterico wasn’t gonna do all this Trump stuff!?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  26. Rush nailed this a few days ago. Trump’s support isn’t derived from any conservative message or principled stance founded on conservative policies. The reason why so many want to fall at the feet of The Donald is because he came out first and said something brash and bold which resonated with so many disaffected individuals in this country looking for someone brash and bold that wasn’t part of the current system who seemed more than willing to tear it down to make us great again.

    He got their attention by stoking the fires of populism and not backing down from the initial barrage. And like mosquitos to a flame, his followers were captivated by his brash, take no prisoners tact. In the beginning it didn’t matter what he said or who he sacrificed on the alter of rhetoric as long as his message was pure.

    The problem now is the message is no longer pure. The minutia in Trump’s rhetoric, from which his fans could parse whatever meaning they desired, is gone. His words are plain, laid bare for all to see, and they are decidedly NOT conservative. So, instead of rationalizing their love for their princely Trump with principled values they instead turn to emotional pragmatism.

    Sean (221079)

  27. It’s getting a bit like O’Reilly and Teh Factor around here: All Trump, All The Time.

    As someone who would vote for him against Hillary, are you bothered by posts demonstrating that his policies are the same as hers, or posts that show he has contempt for you?

    Patterico (5f0ab0)

  28. But don’t worry. I am planning a series on inequality.

    Patterico (5f0ab0)

  29. Jonah Goldberg from today’s National Review -“Anti-establishment” is almost entirely devoid of any ideological content whatsoever. An ideological category that can include Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders, Occupy Wall Street, the tea parties, Ted Cruz, Mark Levin, Rush Limbaugh, and Ben Carson is not a particularly meaningful one. Some reply, oh no, it shows that the people are angry! I hear this all the time. And I agree. And I’m angry too. But you know what? Being angry is not a frick’n argument. I’m angry that Washington has drowned the country in debt. I’m angry that Obama has been a failure. I’m also angry that broccoli doesn’t taste like chicken and that Fox canceled Firefly. Being angry is probably a necessary condition for fixing a lot of problems, but it isn’t sufficient to the task. And it isn’t a particularly powerful defense of Donald Trump.

    “Being angry is not a frick’n argument.” Hilarious.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  30. I think I would still prefer a Trump presidency over ANY Democrat I can think of, Patterico, not just Hillary! Clinton. If it came down to it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  31. Mr. P these posts do a lot more to show that *you* have contempt for Mr. Trump’s supporters than they show that he does i think

    which, this is like 40% of Team R, these people

    and of the other 60% a huge majority of them are demonstrably not on board with the True Conservative in the race

    you have to remember these losers are just running to be president of failmerica – whoever wins is gonna be the head of a wretched cowardly miserably poor international laughingstock – it’s not like some big prize

    it just can’t be hillary cause of 4 more years of this dreary food stamp socialist crap would be intensely BORING

    whereas Mr. The Donald most definitely promises not to be boring

    advantage: Mr. The Donald

    happyfeet (831175)

  32. I also think that the majority of public employees in the state of California have a good deal of contempt for the people they were hired to serve, but they are still needed to get the job done… however slowly or little they work.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. Why is that “hilarious”? Angry is an emotion not an argument. Trump wants to build a wall across our southern border (just like Hillary since Patterico believes they have the same policies)and that is a policy. That is THE policy that made Trump a contender. So why don’t the “real” conservatives embrace this? Because they want to make people afraid of Trump and BTW, being afraid is not an argument either.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  34. it just can’t be hillary cause of 4 more years of this dreary food stamp socialist crap would be intensely BORING

    whereas Mr. The Donald most definitely promises not to be boring

    In other words, happyfeet, we should prefer the severe beatings to being neatly shot in the back of the head?

    JVW (d60453)

  35. Trump followers are not losers. Like all Americans of every stripe and ideological strain, possess value and voice worth respect. Unfortunately, most Trump adherents appear… unwilling to acknowledge a well documented questionable political-business-personal history, his apparent pathological narcissism, his willingness to insult/attack fellow Rs instead of Ds, and on and on.

    Pretty sure you have strong opinions of why the Progressives and Obama drive you up the wall. Some of see history repeating itself with the false hope of Trump. No insult meant to you and yours.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  36. nonono Mr. JVW whoever wins has to promise no hitting

    happyfeet (831175)

  37. Trump wants to build a wall across our southern border (just like Hillary since Patterico believes they have the same policies)and that is a policy. That is THE policy that made Trump a contender. So why don’t the “real” conservatives embrace this?

    The point I am trying to make above address this. Our options appear to be:

    Sanders – the fulfillment of childish socialist fantasies that have wrecked every other country (no, Scandinavia is not some kind of magical wonderland, it’s a decaying society whose original inhabitants are rapidly being replaced by Islamists)

    Clinton – the fulfillment of American identity-politics cynicism

    Old Whazzizname – the fulfillment of ego-driven politics backed by our insipid celebrity culture

    Cruz, Rubio, etc. – the chance (slight though it may be) to roll back some of the damage that has been done over the past 25 years

    I know a number of you take it on faith that Old Whazzisname will build a southern border wall and make other countries import from us and start calling it the “Christmas Tree” once again, but that’s frankly small potatoes when you look at the totality of the problems that we face. And he’s roughly as likely to get his fanciful agenda enacted as Sanders is.

    JVW (d60453)

  38. OK, which honestly impresses you more…standing up to a corrupt corporatist crony Senate or someone who lies to an angry desperate electorate about having the Mexican government build a border fence (45% tariff on Chinese goods, ban all Muslims, be a little establishment to get good deals with the Democrats, etc.)?

    Hollow rhetoric and obvious BS from a Democrat in sheep’s clothing.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  39. JVW, you’re being dismissive again. This entire kerfuffle started with the border wall because there is no benefit to more immigration at this point. They are coming illegally and they are being allowed to then supported by taxpayers when they get here. There is absolutely no need for moslemsto be brought in or allowed in for any reason. We the People know this. The politicians either don’t know this, don’t care about it or don’t care about us. Enter Trump.

    STOP IMMIGRATION IF YOU WANT TO STOP TRUMP!

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  40. Trump supporters, what evidence do you have the Trump will keep his promise to build a wall and deport all illegal immigrants? Furthermore, if Trump were to say he’s open to the idea of a limited amnesty would that be enough to change your mind, or would you just change your stance because he’s big and bold, and as happyfeet mentioned, would make for a interesting presidency?

    Sean (221079)

  41. piffle Mr. JVW

    Mr. The Donald is a repudiation of not just the dismal boi ryan meghan’s coward daddy establishment, but also of a fundamentally toxic and altogether dreary pc culture what imbues the media the academy and failmerica’s laughably corrupt legal and political institutions – a culture what never stops lecturing scolding whining like some kind of just-got-her-masters union slut child molesting public school teacher

    failmerica is being drowned in dogma and twaddle and guess what

    harvardtrash ideologue ted cruz only promises years and years of more droning prissy pseudo-moralizing – just in the name of trailer park jesus and the ghost of poor demented ronald reagan instead of alinsky and mao

    Mr. The Donald on the other hand, he speaks to a renewal of the american spirit much much more broadly – it’s kind of exciting really like a buffy reboot or a new flavor of oreos

    advantage: Mr. The Donald

    happyfeet (831175)

  42. Mr. P these posts do a lot more to show that *you* have contempt for Mr. Trump’s supporters

    How did you figure that out, Sherlock?

    I also think that the majority of public employees in the state of California have a good deal of contempt for the people they were hired to serve, but they are still needed to get the job done… however slowly or little they work.

    I know you’re not talking about me.

    Patterico (8e3674)

  43. 40.Trump supporters, what evidence do you have the Trump will keep his promise to build a wall and deport all illegal immigrants?

    Ahh, the old “when did you stop beating your wife” ploy. He has no power to do anything yet so whether he does or not is supposition. But it sure seems he’s adamant about them there illegals.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  44. I think I would still prefer a Trump presidency over ANY Democrat I can think of, Patterico, not just Hillary! Clinton. If it came down to it.

    Trump is a Democrat. Did you miss this?

    What you’re saying is that you will vote for a Democrat who puts an R after his name. And that would be worse, frankly, because the deal-makers in the Senate know that they could keep the status quo going by supporting his Democrat policies, and they would have cover because of that R.

    How anybody could watch that video and explain away, not just one leftist policy, or two, but a barrage of leftist positions, and still say that person is acceptable, is beyond me.

    Which leads me to conclude you didn’t watch the video.

    You didn’t, did you?

    Patterico (8e3674)

  45. well i sympathize with you Mr. P i just think you’re missing out on a really neat opportunity to be part of the zeitgeist

    you’re being like Susan in Narnia

    happyfeet (831175)

  46. Wow, you are on the very best of drugs. What else can explain, “harvardtrash ideologue ted cruz only promises years and years of more droning prissy pseudo-moralizing – just in the name of trailer park jesus and the ghost of poor demented ronald reagan instead of alinsky and mao”

    I am actually curious as to which principles you find non-negotiable. It appears the ones that guide you are Machiavellian and not shared by most folks I’ve heard comment on this site. Thank goodness.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  47. happyfeet, what exactly has Trump said he’ll do to renew the american spirit? Can you point to any specifics? Do you even know what Trump’s vision of American is other than blowing up people who want to kill us a building a wall? That’s great for starters, but what about policies within our borders? What sort of deals will Trump make, that the establishment are suddenly okay with, that will make america great? In what way, and for whom?

    Sean (221079)

  48. But it sure seems he’s adamant about them there illegals.

    You didn’t watch the video.

    Patterico (8e3674)

  49. well i sympathize with you Mr. P i just think you’re missing out on a really neat opportunity to be part of the zeitgeist

    you’re being like Susan in Narnia

    I feel more like Captain von Trapp, maxifeet.

    Patterico (8e3674)

  50. Mr. Sean if ever failmerica had nothing to lose by taking a flyer It’s 2016

    swing for the fences pickleheads

    happyfeet (831175)

  51. Ahh, the old “when did you stop beating your wife” ploy. He has no power to do anything yet so whether he does or not is supposition. But it sure seems he’s adamant about them there illegals.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) —1/23/2016 @ 3:22 pm

    I see. So, it’s okay for Trump supporters to make allegations about the allegiances and convictions of a Cruz Presidency but when asked for evidence that Trump will keep his word on what appears to be his biggest point of support it’s suddenly a question of domestic violence. Got it.

    Let’s try again. Based on Trump’s background and record of political support and criticism of politicians, what proof do you have that he won’t alter his stance on the wall? I mean, if we’re going to vote for this guy as the country’s only hope to survive we should have some assurances, something you can point to, that will prove he isn’t just selling us a bridge to nowhere. Or is that also too much to ask?

    Sean (221079)

  52. max didn’t even get to sing did he

    or maybe just not in the movie

    i can’t remember now

    happyfeet (831175)

  53. Perhaps I missed something…if the motivation is to Burn It All Down, I agree that Trump is appropriate course of action. If, on the other hand, there is hope that we can pull the country back from the brink Trump is definitely not the answer. Another Obama, abuser of executive office powers is not the solution.

    Do the right thing. For the children. (made myself snort just writing that)

    pieter (ec44a2)

  54. I’ve said I would vote for Trump if I could be confident he’d appoint conservative judges. I’m not confident he’d do that, but if campaigned on that in the general election I’d probably vote for him. But I will be very surprised if he does that. If he is the nominee, I expect him to be vague on the kinds of judges he’d appoint, once the nomination is decided; which will be fine with his true believers.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  55. Great point, Gerald.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  56. the GOP establishments attempts to derail Trump
    won’t work. In fact, I willing to bet Ted Cruz gets a backlash

    Need I remind you that Ronald Reagan was also a democrat/liberal
    for a number of years… before he become a republican

    Here’s why nobody trusts the GOP establishment who support cruz…
    1) They like him because he can be controlled by their elite
    an example of this: is that only recently they found out Ted Cruz took donations
    from Goldman Sachs (ted cruz also called them crony capitalists). so they obviously get special favors from Cruz…
    2) when the GOP was put in the majority in congress/Senate…
    and was a literally mandate for them to repeal 0bamacare.
    I have yet to see the GOP succeed at such…
    ….voters suspect the GOP establishment must like 0bamacare
    or want to keep it around or are playing a lil circus to pretend
    like they want to do anything about that.

    as expected most voters aren’t too happy with the GOP giving 0bama/dems
    essentially everything they want. so they turn to an outsider like Trump.

    btw… you can tell this to Cruz…
    If you want me and others to vote for Cruz, he’ll have to fulfill this lil task
    to prove to voters he is an actual conservative himself.

    the task is to repeal 0bamacare… before 0bama leaves office
    This will garner Ted Cruz the enough support he needs to win the nomination.

    People would like nothing more than to see 0bama’s disheartened face
    when a repeal of his healthcare law is FORCEFULLY RAMMED DOWN his throat.
    and he can’t stop it with a veto.

    If Ted Cruz does that, that will likely convince most people to vote/give him the nomination.
    This is what I suspect tho…. Ted Cruz won’t…. because the elite who he caters too…
    get money from 0bamacare, and they wouldn’t like to see that end, would they?

    the GOP establishment seems to think Ted Cruz is so great and so worthy of the nomination
    then he needs to show people he can accomplish… what none of the members of the GOP
    have accomplished so far: -a full repeal of 0bamacare.- Better tell Ted Cruz to hurry, cuz
    at this rate Trump is going to be the nominee soon, and very likely the president.

    and hopefully, after 0bama gets kicked out of office,
    they can banish him permanently from the USA.

    YourMaster (c7e392)

  57. Mr. Sean if ever failmerica had nothing to lose by taking a flyer It’s 2016

    swing for the fences pickleheads

    happyfeet (831175) —1/23/2016 @ 3:29 pm

    Trump isn’t a flyer.

    Sean (221079)

  58. Cruz tried, Trump supports universal health care. Who do you trust per their past efforts or stated views?

    Your Master stated, “People would like nothing more than to see 0bama’s disheartened face
    when a repeal of his healthcare law is FORCEFULLY RAMMED DOWN his throat.
    and he can’t stop it with a veto”

    Trump never lifted a finger, in fact he stated his emphatic support of that which you despise.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  59. max didn’t even get to sing did he

    or maybe just not in the movie

    i can’t remember now

    Nope. He just got to be the craven guy who wanted to avoid making waves while the dangerous cult-of-personality figure threatened to take over his country. That’s all he did, maxifeet.

    Patterico (8e3674)

  60. i coulda sworn i got to sing in the original

    now i have to google

    happyfeet (831175)

  61. yes yes!

    i had two numbers!

    one of them was called No Way to Stop It

    happyfeet (831175)

  62. If Trump is a born again Republican, steeped in the understanding of our founding principles, defender of Sovereign individual liberty, and enemy of all that is corrupt-corporatist-crony in our government…when exactly did this epiphany happen and why?

    pieter (ec44a2)

  63. I believe YourMaster has posted under several other identities. These new identities keep popping up in support of Trump and make virtually fact-free arguments for Trump and accusations against Cruz.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  64. Gerald, thanks. Fact free is putting it mildly. A vacuum better describes the absence.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  65. If Trump believes he will retain his supporters no matter what he does, that’s not a good thing for representative democracy.
    I mean, the whole point is that your actions and decisions are “checked” by voters.

    If you believe your voters will kick you to the curb for being corrupt, or incompetent—that’s a good incentive to behave yourself.

    …but if you believe you can gun someone down in the street, and there will be no consequences—well, that’s not good. That sounds like somebody will run an undisciplined campaign in the summer/fall. I want someone who believes he will be held accountable.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  66. GeraldA,

    Just like leftist trolls! Isn’t that weird??

    Patterico (5f0ab0)

  67. the knives are out, for both candidates,

    link

    narciso (732bc0)

  68. Rush Limbaugh is a Canadian.

    nk (dbc370)

  69. Y’know what’s weird? The appearance in Trump supporters of zero political principle, stunning disregard in the character displayed of their champion, wilful ignorance of his past, and all for the narrow succor of a border fence (which other candidates similarly desire) and that he “fights” (empirically proven to be only other Republicans).

    pieter (ec44a2)

  70. 51 Let’s try again. Based on Trump’s background and record of political support and criticism of politicians, what proof do you have that he won’t alter his stance on the wall? I mean, if we’re going to vote for this guy as the country’s only hope to survive we should have some assurances, something you can point to, that will prove he isn’t just selling us a bridge to nowhere. Or is that also too much to ask?

    I don’t know that Trump will do anything about immigration. I know the other candidates won’t. So Trump looks like my best bet. What do I need proof or assurances for? If Trump turns out to be just like the other candidates on immigration I haven’t lost anything.

    James B. Shearer (0f56fb)

  71. Read that earlier, those in power believe us too vapid to smell the BS.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  72. Mr. The Donald on the other hand, he speaks to a renewal of the american spirit much much more broadly – it’s kind of exciting really like a buffy reboot or a new flavor of oreos.

    Well, if Old Wazzizname tells us that he’s going to do all these great things then we should definitely believe him, shouldn’t we? I mean, it has been proven that this particular fella is so resolute in his political opinions from year to year day to day that he’s bound to govern exactly like he campaigns, right? And no one from his New York real estate and finance background has ever lied to a client/partner/voter in order to gain advantage, has he?

    But a patriotic guy like Old Wazzizname who has done so much as a private citizen to the renew the American spirit, such as — uh, let me think — um, just a second — wait, there has to be something, doesn’t there? — he’ll get right on that Morning in America thing, won’t he?

    JVW (d60453)

  73. How do you know this?

    “I know the other candidates won’t.”

    pieter (ec44a2)

  74. I had seen most of what was in the video already, Patterico. As I have also said, Cruz is my guy and I hope – I pray – that he will be the nominee. I have and will continue to donate to Cruz’s campaign.

    But… if he is not and Trump does end up being the nominee, I will not sit on my ass this November, I will vote for Trump, even if he often comes across as an unprincipled asshole. He will still be better than the alternative, IMHO.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  75. because they haven’t since the ’86 amnesty, because the big money players are set against it,

    narciso (732bc0)

  76. JVW, you are hilarious. Thank you, best sarc so far today.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  77. James B. Shearer,

    You may have confidence in Trump.
    But which Trump are you speaking of; the one in 2016? Or the one in 2009 who thought Obama was going to do great things?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  78. Rush Limbaugh is a Missourian. His father practiced Law in Cape Girardeau, MO till he reached an age that 90 percent of Americans never see.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  79. narciso, 86 was a failure to negotiate effectively…I agree it was complete “trust me” to pull out moment. Pretty sure everyone is tracking the lesson learned regardless of the candidate.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  80. Ronaldus Magnus and Bush sr, honestly believed this to be so, but the Dems understood this to be the linchpin of demographic transformation

    narciso (732bc0)

  81. True dat.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  82. There are two kinds of voters, those who want to feel pure in thought and those who want to see results. The former has held sway over the GOP in recent history and we’ve had terrible results. Now the latter is going to have a turn and the former can sit down and shut up. They’ve brought us to this place, they get no further say in how to fix the damage THEY have done.

    Mr Black (3efb66)

  83. #80 pieter, I think nk was just being tongue-in-cheek when stating that Limbaugh is Canadian. It’s probably just a play on ropelight’s insistence that Cruz would secretly be loyal to Ottawa instead of Washington DC.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  84. Mr Black, so you’re fine with tearing out the First Amendment to the Constitution? Typical Leftist. Just like your idol, Donald Trump.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  85. I don’t know that Trump will do anything about immigration. I know the other candidates won’t. So Trump looks like my best bet. What do I need proof or assurances for? If Trump turns out to be just like the other candidates on immigration I haven’t lost anything.

    Let’s say you are right. Once the new border fence is built up (with Mexico paying!) and once all the illegal immigrants are deported, and once we no longer have to worry that the Social Justice Warriors are going to send us to reeducation camps for saying something that angers them, will that somehow make our $19 trillion in debt disappear? Will that fix the situation in Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al.? Will the federal government suddenly run more efficiently and effectively? Will the long-term problems with Social Security, Medicare, and, now, ObamaCare suddenly go away? Will the massive regulatory apparatus that has been grafted on to our economy over the past 80 years just go away? Will the crony capitalists who have used their wealth and influence to purchase influence fold up their tents and go home? Will courts start adhering to the Constitution and will judges suddenly stop acting like legislators and start enacting their preferred political platforms from the bench?

    Illegal immigration is a problem because it stands in stark contrast to the notion that we are a nation of laws that we all must obey, but it is hardly the only — or for that matter even the most important — problem we face in this country. And your preferred candidate not only appears to have no real answers to these issues, he doesn’t even seem to care all that much about them.

    JVW (d60453)

  86. pieter, I apologize, I totally mistook your comments in #80, for those belonging to those of #79 John Hitchcock.

    Math and numbers was never my strong suit.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  87. Trump followers are not losers. Like all Americans of every stripe and ideological strain, possess value and voice worth respect. Unfortunately, most Trump adherents appear… unwilling to acknowledge a well documented questionable political-business-personal history, his apparent pathological narcissism, his willingness to insult/attack fellow Rs instead of Ds, and on and on.

    I’m glad it was pointed out that Trump followers are not losers. I have several well-educated, smart and self-made relatives who are backing him. They are anything but losers. What they are is angry at being ignored and frustrated at being lied to by the GOP. They no longer feel represented. They expected that treatment from the MSM and Dems, but not from their own party. I have spent time talking to them, pointing out Cruz’s stands for conservatism and his policy positions in light of Trump’s ever-changing stands. I believe progress has been made as they are now looking at Cruz. Never did I imply or act as though they were losers or morons or whatever because they supported him. Rather I understood exactly why they looked to him, especially at the beginning of his run. It made sense. Those fed up with Republican donor class calling the shots and ignoring one entire wing of the party, coupled with Obama’s march toward destruction of the nation, built up a frustration and anger that Trump met head on. Yes, he tapped into that emotion and perfectly played it to his advantage. But to dismiss those people drawn in as morons or losers is to forfeit the opportunity to talk to Trump supporters with patience and politeness and a genuine concern for the future of the country.

    Dana (86e864)

  88. Donald Trump is a Leftist Democrat. He doesn’t have a Conservative bone in his body. The last time he even saw a Conservative bone, he fired his sous chef for dropping the bone in his foie gras before prepping. And limited government? Trump declared he doesn’t trust the states to take proper care of all that land the Federal Government confiscated.

    Anyone who would vote for Trump — at all — is a fool. Trump is a Left-wing Democrat, plain and simple.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  89. 22- quit watching fox, Col.

    mg (31009b)

  90. Golly, Mr Black, sorry to point out the glaring hypocrisy and character flaws of your redeemer. Some have doubts as to your politically questionable, boorish, pseudo-republican “fighter”. Your adamancy with eyes closed will have consequences to all.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  91. Cruz Supporter, no worries.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  92. Dana, mine was not in response to yours. Simultaneous post.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  93. It’s beginning to look like we may have a replay of the end of A Face in the Crowd, the 1957 movie about a Huey-Long-style demagogue named ‘Lonesome’ Rhodes, played by Andy Griffith, who goes from alcoholic bum to millionaire and kingmaker, busy making a senator named Fuller president in return for a cabinet post. Here’s Wikipedia on the denouement:

    “At the end of one of Rhodes’ shows, the engineer cuts the microphone and leaves Jeffries [the woman who discovered him, loves him, and feels betrayed by him] alone in the control booth while the show’s credits roll. Millions of viewers watch (in what initially is silence) their hero Rhodes smiling and seeming to chat amiably with the rest of the cast. In truth, he is mocking Fuller, then going off on a vitriolic rant about the stupidity of his TV audience. In the broadcast booth, Jeffries reactivates his microphone, sending his words and laughter over the air live. A sequence of television viewers is shown to react to Rhodes’ description of them all as ‘idiots, morons, and guinea pigs’.

    “Still unaware that his words have gone out over the air waves (with thousands of angry calls to local stations and the network headquarters), he departs the penthouse studio in a jovial mood and prophetically tells the elevator operator that he is going ‘all the way down’. As the elevator numbers go down to 0, the show’s popularity is plummeting as well.”

    And so on. It’s a great movie.

    Granted that Trump is aiming higher than Rhodes, and is unlikely to fall so far so fast, he’s also apparently capable of doing the job himself, not even caring whether the mike is on when he calls his followers fools. Many who thought his campaign would implode months ago have been disappointed, but it may still do exactly that. As with his rise, so his (still hypothetical) fall: who’s going to stop him?

    Dr. Weevil (e35c01)

  94. this is what soros and company, have tried to do with mccain/feingold, all the while, their candidates scoop up all the spare cash under the cushions, including superpac monies,

    narciso (732bc0)

  95. Certainly could be better, but also a helluva lot worse.

    “It’s hard to believe that someone who indiscriminately insults people from Sen. John McCain to Fox anchor Megyn Kelly, among others, can be leading in the polls. But this is Trump’s position a year before the election, to the mystification of everyone except Trump.

    Why the gross behavior? Trump explains: “I learned a long time ago that if you’re not afraid to be outspoken, the media will write about you or beg you to come on their shows. … If you say outrageous things and fight back, they love you.” Rather than spend over $100,000 on a full-page ad in the New York Times, he says, he can get a story written about him for free.

    Trump blends mainstream Republican positions such as school choice and lower taxes with Democratic positions such as not fixing Social Security and expanding public infrastructure spending. Here are four good ideas and four bad ones from the 208-page “Crippled America.”

    First, the good ideas
    Education. “Competition is why I’m very much in favor of school choice. Let schools compete for kids,” Trump writes. “For two decades I’ve been urging politicians to open the schoolhouse doors and let parents decide which schools are best for their children.” As everyone knows, consigning children to failing schools is one of the main causes of inequality. Trump makes a strong case for eliminating the Department of Education and returning education policy, testing and all, to the states.

    Obamacare. Trump wants to replace the Affordable Care Act with a private insurance system that would allow people to buy insurance across state lines, abandoning his earlier support of single-payer health insurance. Insurance companies could market the plans that people want to buy, not the one-size-fits-all plans that are currently being sold. Competition would raise the quality of the service.

    Energy policy. Trump delivers a well-deserved critique of costly renewable energy. He wants to expand development of energy resources and correctly criticizes the development of expensive renewables, such as wind and solar. Trump has battled proposed windfarms near his resorts, and succeeded in derailing plans for wind turbines near his golf course in Scotland.

    Tax plan. Trump wants to simplify and lower individual and corporate rates. He proposes lowering individual tax rates to 10%, 20% and 25%, and getting rid of all deductions except those for charitable deductions and mortgage interest. He wants to eliminate the estate tax, the alternative minimum tax and the marriage penalty. On the corporate side, he supports lowering the tax rate to 15%. Trump’s plan loses more revenue than other Republican proposals, but proposals always get changed when they are put through the legislative wringer.

    The bad ideas
    Social Security. Trump writes: “We should not touch Social Security. It’s off the table.” He suggests asking wealthy people to voluntarily give up Social Security payments if they don’t need them, but admits that this is unlikely to have much effect. Social Security benefits are paid to 58 million people, over 1,000 times more than in 1937. The program costs $808 billion per year, nearly 40,000 times what it cost in 1937, adjusted for inflation. Social Security and Medicare accounted for almost 40% of federal spending in 2014. It is impossible to solve our $19 trillion debt problem without adjusting those programs.

    Infrastructure. Trump complains that America’s infrastructure “is crumbling, and we aren’t doing anything about it.” He suggests spending more money, even though “on the federal level, this is going to be an expensive investment, no question about that.” As a developer, he should be thinking of ways to get the government out of building infrastructure, and private companies in.

    With today’s toll technology, the Trumps of the world can repair and maintain infrastructure and charge fees for its use. The use of project labor agreements, which require higher-paid union labor for federally funded projects, increases the cost of federal projects. The Davis-Bacon law raises construction workers’ wages. Highway Trust Fund rules require about 15% of funds to be spent on mass transit, even in states where residents don’t use mass transit. Moving more infrastructure construction to the private sector would save billions of dollars.

    China. Trump writes that “we must stop certain countries from devaluing their currencies at the drop of a hat,” and accuses China of currency manipulation. Five years ago, China pegged its currency at a low level that gave it an advantage in importing to the United States. But today the yuan is overvalued, not undervalued. China’s trade surplus has declined to 3% of GDP, and exports are declining — not a sign of an undervalued currency, as AEI scholar Desmond Lachman has shown. China is keeping its currency high to prop up its tottering stock market. This helps, rather than hurts, the United States.

    Immigration. The chaos of migrants flooding Europe proves even to skeptics that we need to do more to enhance border security. Trump proposes a wall along certain sections of the southern border, paid for by fees from visas. This is not unreasonable. But sending back 11 million undocumented workers, and then inviting some to return, makes no sense. Instead, they should pay a fine and receive a work visa. Trump writes that “when people are playing on one of my golf courses, or staying at a hotel, we supply the service personnel who keep these businesses running.” He needs these workers too.

    Trump is a serious candidate, with field organizations in major states that rival those of other candidates. His lead in the polls is an indictment of the way government operates and reflects Americans’ dislike of politicians. So people should get the book, see what Trump says and judge for themselves. It’s an entertaining read.”

    http://www.marketwatch.com/story/donald-trumps-four-good-ideas-and-four-bad-ones-in-crippled-america-2015-11-12

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  96. stop helping, seriously,

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wow-glenn-beck-i-prefer-bernie-sanders-over-donald-trump/

    as long as we’re counting outbursts,

    narciso (732bc0)

  97. Humpty Trumpty sat on his wall. Humpty Trumty had a great fall.

    That’s the story I’m waiting for.

    crazy (cde091)

  98. 90… I don’t watch much, mg, but my wife does, although she’s being weaned off of it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  99. With the number of trump and sanders voters, it is a shame all the mental health hospitals were closed.

    mg (31009b)

  100. Doc, great question…who’s going to stop him? Millions, both low and high, wonder. Like you said, it comes down to the candidate gradually crossing a line or crashing in the most heinous inglorious manner. With his ego, it will be memorably spectacular.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  101. At least Sanders is honest about his hard-Left stance. Trump lies about his. And would bring down the whole structure to defend against his Leftist Central Government machinations.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  102. The GOP betrays us on virtually every issue we care about, they SAY they believe how we believe, but they don’t. You’re just stupid enough to want to be lied to again. Trump isn’t a principled conservative, you’re right. Who knows what he will do. But I’m done with being lied to and pissed on. I’d be happy to see the GOP burned to the ground. It’s what they deserve.

    Mr Black (3efb66)

  103. With Trump, it’s the United States of America and the US Constitution that will be burned into an unrecognizable crisp.

    And you have not examined Ted Cruz.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  104. 97- narciso
    I prefer mold over beck.

    mg (31009b)

  105. “But to dismiss those people drawn in as morons or losers is to forfeit the opportunity to talk to Trump supporters with patience and politeness and a genuine concern for the future of the country.”

    – Dana

    How can we even articulate a coherent concern for the future of the country, in light of the absurdity of Trump’s candidacy? What is the “future of the country” that people perceive, that they think Trump would correct in any way, shape, or form? A bunch of self-proclaimed fiscal conservatives want the guy with four corporate bankruptcies and a fundamentally engrained arrogance and opulence to be the voice of fiscal sanity for a country with $18 trillion dollars of debt?

    What we’re seeing is people who are so extremely pissed off by left-wing policies that they… are flocking in droves to the most left-wing candidate available to them?! It’s easily the strangest political response I’ve seen in my young life, and it’s terrifying. Trump is nothing, nothing whatsoever, but an empty vessel willing to harness intense, poisonous, factional hate (which republican government is meant to neutralize) and unleash it like a feral dog for his own patrician amusement.

    Leviticus (c3e73d)

  106. Mr Black, I wholeheartedly agree with your views and sentiment. I also have kids that will have difficulty adjusting to the rubble. Let’s just kill the GOP as we know it…support a real conservative, it’s what they fear and despise most.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  107. Greg Stillson really, perhaps, this overwrought reaction, rarely achieves it’s objection, as National Review should have learned by now,

    narciso (732bc0)

  108. if you’re catching flak, it indicates you are over the target,

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/ted-cruz-likes-being-hated-1453502513

    narciso (732bc0)

  109. No one who supports Trump can point to any reason why Trump himself is worth supporting. He is not intelligent; he is not principled; he has no vision; he has no plans; he doesn’t care about his supporters, or respect them; he is not kind; he is nothing. He is literally nothing but a blank screen onto which people are projecting long pent-up scenes of self-righteous vengeance. So what conversation are we supposed to have with people who support Trump? The way to fix a broken system is not to elect a man who represents its worst qualities.

    Leviticus (c3e73d)

  110. I want a glass of whatever Leviticus is drinking! Hear, hear and right on!

    pieter (ec44a2)

  111. Leviticus, what you said made a lot of sense. And I’m surprised I saw you say something I can agree with. Excuse me, while I right the imbalanced equilibrium in my brain…

    Leviticus, you’re a dork.

    There, all balanced again. Trump is, indeed a Leftist Democrat, further Left than Arlen Specter ever was. Further Left than Graham, Flip Flopney, McCain, Lieberman, Webb. How anyone in his or her right mind can even imagine voting for him after everything Obama and the Democrats have done is beyond me.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  112. trump is awesome cruz is flubbar

    happyfeet (831175)

  113. “The way to fix a broken system is not to elect a man who represents its worst qualities.”

    But it serves us well to virtually guarantee the election of a Democrat opponent, who would most likely be several times worse policy-wise? I don’t think so.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  114. happyfeet, Trump is awesome to those who enjoy being surprised by squirrels. Not sure if you’ve kidding or not, don’t know your sense of humor or past commentary.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  115. he’s a typical New York resident, he’s not stupid, and his supporters are not either. They have lost patience with a system that does not serve them, as mark steyn pointed out earlier,

    narciso (732bc0)

  116. We don’t have the luxury of sitting this one out.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  117. Abandonment by the TOP does require our abandonment of our good senses. What is the logic or purpose of supporting an apparent charlatan?

    pieter (ec44a2)

  118. We don’t have the luxury of electing a Trump.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  119. But this is exactly the counterproductive tact, that drives these new voters out of the system, there was a similar panic attack about Gingrich, who was a worthier opponent, despite his faults,

    narciso (732bc0)

  120. Damned Kindle, GOP not TOP.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  121. I’ve dubbed the establishment, the Top Men, as in raiders, or the Duke Bros, as in trading places,

    narciso (732bc0)

  122. squirrels are terrifying they lurk in dumpsters here and when you go throw away your trash they leap at you all teeth and fury like it’s your fault they got stuck in a dumpster

    stupid vicious creatures i like the black ones the best they’re super cute

    happyfeet (831175)

  123. I never expected to see so many John McCain fans on Patterico.

    It’s another Trump miracle.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  124. What we’re seeing is people who are so extremely pissed off by left-wing policies that they… are flocking in droves to the most left-wing candidate available to them?! It’s easily the strangest political response I’ve seen in my young life, and it’s terrifying.

    This is the problem: it’s not a “political” response you’re seeing – it’s an emotional response, reflexive and desperate. That’s the level of anger and resentment people have toward the GOP. That is what must be broken through by presenting a coherent and viable alternative. They aren’t looking at policies. I bet 90% of Trump supporters would not be able to articulate where he stands on any number of issues. And that’s fine with them. They are looking at the person who presents what they need to see: someone equally as powerful, wealthy and fearless as the enemy (GOP elites and Dems) and will stand in their stead against them. Trump doesn’t care about policies because he doesn’t have to. And that is because his supporters aren’t demanding that of him. I think people underestimate the level of frustration out there. Certainly the GOP donor class does. And I think a lot of us here do as well.

    Again, what will break through that anger and resentment to clear thinking and consideration is for candidates like Cruz, who has a very viable and solid platform of conservatism, is to keep doing what he is doing: presenting the rational alternative to the disoriented gaggle of “views” that Trump is presenting.

    I don’t think Trump supporters (at least the ones I’ve been in contact with) are unreachable. Far from it. Rather they want someone to understand their frustration, first, and then talk, second.

    Dana (86e864)

  125. narciso, agreed that the venomous back and forth is wrong. Poor tactic, poor communication, poor endstate.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  126. So, my learned friend, Mr. Hitchcock… what would you suggest if we find ourselves faced with a Trump candidacy and a Clinton, Sanders or Warren as an opponent?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  127. happy feet, truly jealous of the quality of drugs you enjoy. Cheers.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  128. the Rago interview, upthread, illuminates Cruz’s approach, as emotionally satisfying as it might be to attack his supporter, have we learned nothing these last nine months,

    narciso (732bc0)

  129. Trump need to file a suit in federal court for a declaratory judgment that his hair is a natural born citizen of the United States. He should not wait for Hillary to do it on the eve of the Electoral College.

    nk (dbc370)

  130. #88, Dana, the voice of reason speaks.

    ropelight (b80664)

  131. Does commenting on this site make you high? If so, I’m not doing it right…when does kick in?

    pieter (ec44a2)

  132. Dana (86e864) — 1/23/2016 @ 4:49 pm

    What Dana said,
    Why does this seem so simple to me and a few others of us,
    yet there is so much smoke and little light???

    Point #’s 1 to 36,946,894,787
    The base of support for Trump is a protest vote against everyone else,
    it has nothing to do with being a conservative or not,
    many people are sick of the Dems,
    and also sick of electing repubs who do the same things,
    not just the same policies, but the same behind closed doors deal making and bills with thousands of pages that nobody has read.

    Along comes a guy who says, “Look, everyone knows that if nothing else we need to close the border, I’ll close the border…”
    And a bunch of people think, “Hey, what have we got to lose, we know Clinton and the Dems are lying leftists, and the Repubs say stuff and then don’t do what they say,
    I REPEAT,
    “What have we got to lose!!!???”

    From day 1 I have said Trump is not the issue, don’t bother arguing with him or trying to take him down,
    understand the anger and protest,
    and show who is a better choice for those who feel that way.
    That is what Cruz has largely done, why he hasn’t turned on Trump until it is time to decide between the two.

    Now, I do not know what to think of people who claim Trump is a conservative or a new found conservative,
    I don’t trust what people say unless there is evidence from their behavior.
    Cruz has evidence of doing what he promises to do during his campaign.

    Sometimes it seems that people are saying that a person who will vote for Trump just because Hillary and Sanders are so atrocious is stupid and mislead and are deluded thinking Trump is a conservative.

    Trump is a phenomenon because the ruling class, dems and repubs, have so betrayed the public than some people are desperate.

    But you know,
    that too is perhaps an aim of the Alynskyites,
    it is chaos, and out of chaos comes evil (unless God intervenes)
    and the Repubs are just as guilty for not understanding.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  133. Colonel, I have said it many times. Patterico has said it of himself more than once.

    I will never, EVER, vote for the Leftist Democrat Donald Trump. Period.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  134. Okay then.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  135. Say hello to another 8 years of the same horseshi+…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  136. are flocking in droves to the most left-wing candidate available to them?! It’s easily the strangest political response I’ve seen in my young life, and it’s terrifying.

    This is the problem: it’s not a “political” response you’re seeing – it’s an emotional response, reflexive and desperate.

    As Dana said, people are flocking to a protest candidate who promises to do at least one fricken obvious thing that no one else will do,
    beyond that
    people don’t care
    because they have learned by experience that claimed “policies” of Repubs don’t matter their actions lie as much as the Dems words

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  137. So what conversation are we supposed to have with people who support Trump? The way to fix a broken system is not to elect a man who represents its worst qualities.

    Leviticus (c3e73d) — 1/23/2016 @ 5:12 pm

    True dat. We’re about to finish suffering 8 years of that, why in hell would we want more? Because the guy plastered a bright, shiny new “R” after his mane?

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  138. “This is the problem: it’s not a “political” response you’re seeing – it’s an emotional response, reflexive and desperate. That’s the level of anger and resentment people have toward the GOP. That is what must be broken through by presenting a coherent and viable alternative. They aren’t looking at policies.”

    – Dana

    You’re right. I know you are. The funny thing is, I absolutely understand the disaffection. I’ve struggled with it for years. But the reaction was different – I just stepped back and stayed out of it. To see so many people channeling their disaffection into active, mindless hate is terrifying. They gazed into the abyss, and the abyss gazed back into them.

    I lay a great deal of the blame for Trump’s candidacy at the feet of the counterproductive American mentality that we HAVE to vote, no matter how terrible the candidates are. That is a false premise from which a great deal of wrongheaded, faux-pragmatic arguments stem. You don’t like any of the candidates? Don’t vote. Your vote is a stamp of approval, and a sacred privilege – not a token of resigned acquiescence to be dropped into the receptacle that horrifies you the least. You’re not gonna stop the country from electing a monster if it wants to, but that doesn’t mean that you should participate in electing one yourself.

    Leviticus (c3e73d)

  139. squirrels are terrifying they lurk in dumpsters here and when you go throw away your trash they leap at you all teeth and fury like it’s your fault they got stuck in a dumpster

    stupid vicious creatures i like the black ones the best they’re super cute

    happyfeet (831175) — 1/23/2016 @ 5:29 pm

    Then you need to pay attention to the one mounted on Trump’s head.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  140. hah! yes

    it needs a name

    happyfeet (831175)

  141. Painted Jaguar: (drumming the claws of his R front paw on a turtle shell, with the most disgusting look on his visage that one would never wish to see)
    (in other words, he is ticked)

    Are all of you people really arguing over which candidate is so terrible that you would never vote for them?
    Really?
    Is that what it has come to???
    If that is really the pertinent question,
    you guys are in deep armadillo do-do,
    really deep.

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (deca84)

  142. dimmesdale,

    http://rightwingnews.com/isisisil/isis-says-they-will-take-over-this-european-state-that-used-to-be-controlled-by-muslims/

    rest assured they are just jayvees, oddly the GOP had to have seen this coming and didn’t have a response,

    narciso (732bc0)

  143. 86 Illegal immigration is a problem because it stands in stark contrast to the notion that we are a nation of laws that we all must obey, but it is hardly the only — or for that matter even the most important — problem we face in this country. And your preferred candidate not only appears to have no real answers to these issues, he doesn’t even seem to care all that much about them.

    Different people care about different things. I care about immigration. I don’t care about a lot of the other issues that excite conservatives. And to the extent that I do care I often don’t agree with the conservative position anyway.

    James B. Shearer (0f56fb)

  144. green eggs and ham, jaguar, sam I am,

    narciso (732bc0)

  145. “The base of support for Trump is a protest vote against everyone else,
    it has nothing to do with being a conservative or not.”

    – MD in Philly

    That’s exactly the mentality I’m talking about – the mentality that we have to support SOMEONE, regardless of how terrible that person is, because… [something]. I really don’t understand it.

    Write in a person you would actually like to lead. Talk that person up. If enough people agree with you, that person will get elected President, same as if you voted for a piece of sh*t like Donald Trump. And you will have given an account of yourself.

    Leviticus (c3e73d)

  146. Humans suffer inertia due poorly considered suppositions. I have faith that most Trump adherents will have enough and look elsewhere for a candidate that can stick it to the GOPe. I put with hysterical “angry” from wife all the time, been married since ’92. We are all angry and ready for a fight, thankfully some of us have less political estrogen.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  147. Different people care about different things. I care about immigration. I don’t care about a lot of the other issues that excite conservatives. And to the extent that I do care I often don’t agree with the conservative position anyway.

    James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/23/2016 @ 5:49 pm

    Would a shorter announcement be that you are a single-issue voter, and immigration is it? Immigration is important, yes, but not the only large-scale problem facing us.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  148. I am quietly trying to put some distance between me and one large cat with fangs in a really terrible mood,
    really terrible.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  149. Polonius Butterbrickle Bushybutt yawned softly and looked out at the audience with a bored and knowing eye. “Oh yes. We could indeed go on quite the shooting spree,” he thought.

    This epiphany, it cheered him, and he allowed the warm happiness of his imaginings to lull him back to happy dreamings atop the head of what many say is the pivotal man of his times.

    happyfeet (831175)

  150. crud lost his citizenship when his so called amerrican mom registered to vote in canada.

    xeke (b674d9)

  151. green eggs and ham, jaguar, sam I am,

    narciso (732bc0) — 1/23/2016 @ 5:50 pm

    I would not vote for him
    from near or far
    I could not vote for him
    from a car
    I should not vote for him
    from a bar

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  152. maybe get a dog, but that’s starts the escalation,

    narciso (732bc0)

  153. I’m voting for Tammy Duckworth over Mark Kirk in an election where my vote will count. Because there’s nothing about that lady that will make me want to wash my hands afterwards. I cannot say the same about Trump or Hillary. People who want to dip into those sewers, looking for the lesser of two offals, are welcome to.

    nk (dbc370)

  154. crud lost his citizenship when his so called amerrican mom registered to vote in canada.

    xeke (b674d9) — 1/23/2016 @ 5:55 pm

    You are going to have to go some to substantiate that here. Have any proof beyond other pundits saying so?

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  155. well no, leviticus, but the other side, ‘won’t allow you to be uninvolved’ you must support their candidate, and everything they stand for, or you are unenlightened, racist, sexist, et al

    narciso (732bc0)

  156. Oh, go suck a suppository, Perry.

    nk (dbc370)

  157. Almost anyone is electable from the vantage of several hours in a bar. You might have to cover one eye, crawl to the voting booth, vomit from remorse afterwards. But doable.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  158. Leviticus (c3e73d) — 1/23/2016 @ 5:51 pm

    I don’t understand what you find so hard to understand.

    Someone will get elected, whether you like it or not.

    You can choose to vote for somebody,
    or you can choose to vote against somebody,
    or you can choose to not vote for anybody.
    I don’t see any other choices.
    The basic reason to vote for Trump is to vote against the Dems and the Repub estab. at the same time.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  159. I see what you did there, Leviticus. Well played.

    JD (121b80)

  160. he really thinks it’s clever, but it’s the same old journolisted nutrootery,

    narciso (732bc0)

  161. well no, leviticus, but the other side, ‘won’t allow you to be uninvolved’ you must support their candidate, and everything they stand for, or you are unenlightened, racist, sexist, et al

    narciso (732bc0) — 1/23/2016 @ 5:58 pm

    I just tell people I’m a registered troglodyte. Gets that “racist, sexist, homophobe, unenlightened…” right out of the way.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  162. 155 her canadian voter registration has been shown many times on the news where it has been copied and shown, It is even on the internet.

    xeke (b674d9)

  163. “Say hello to another 8 years of the same horseshi+…
    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)”

    Same vapid BS argument you pushed on us 4 years ago. And 4 years before that.

    JD (121b80)

  164. Perry – that is a lie, and you are an effin mendoucheous liar.

    JD (121b80)

  165. You can choose to vote for somebody,
    or you can choose to vote against somebody,
    or you can choose to not vote for anybody.
    I don’t see any other choices.
    The basic reason to vote for Trump is to vote against the Dems and the Repub estab. at the same time.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/23/2016 @ 5:59 pm

    How’s that lyric go? Oh, yah:

    If you choose not to decide,
    you still have made a choice

    You’ve stated the only actual reason to vote Trump. Just, for me that by itself isn’t a very good reason. Of course, YMMV.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  166. Last I checked, we’re still in the primary phase of this election. As such, voting this Spring for Trump makes you appear to be a short-sighted, willfully ignorant, unprincipled, moonbat pseudo-asshole. Me, I’ll vote for Trump in general election if the other choice is Hillary.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  167. Any rafael cruz lovers google cruz mother on 1974 canadian voter registration list and read cruz lame excuse that that doesn’t matter because he doesn’t want it too!

    xeke (b674d9)

  168. I think Painted Jaguar had a good point,
    we are spending way too much time arguing over who is so bad we would never vote for them.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  169. her canadian voter registration has been shown many times on the news where it has been copied and shown, It is even on the internet.

    xeke (b674d9) — 1/23/2016 @ 6:02 pm

    I asked for proof, not say-so. You know full well just about anything can be made up by someone with Photoshop and a grudge. Tell ya wot: go back to your campus, and talk to the closest substitute you have for a Constitutional law professor, the get back to us, mmmkay?

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  170. Bill – perry doesn’t care that what he is espousing has been thoroughly fisked and debunked as being a steaming pile of Perry.

    JD (121b80)

  171. thats why I went dr. seuss,

    narciso (732bc0)

  172. I know two people named Amado. They are both very important to me. Neither of them is an American. Neither of them has ever stepped foot in the Western Hemisphere. Perry is as he always was: an arse.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  173. A big reason to vote for Trump is not that one has to vote for somebody,
    it is to shout it out that one is fed up being betrayed by repubs.

    Now, that may still not be a good enough reason to vote for Trump,
    or it may be only a good enough reason to vote for Trump at this point in time to send the message, and hope that it will be apparent that people can vote FOR a candidate who is worthy as well as being a protest to business as usual repubs,
    which would be Cruz.

    But again, I agree with PJ,
    we’re in deep armadillo do-do when we spend this much time arguing over who is too terrible to ever vote for.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  174. And Bill, Perry is a lilly-white octagenarian from Delaware whose parents moved out of their neighborhood when he was a child, just as it was “darkening up”. But he accuses us of having a hate on for anyone who isn’t as lilly-white as the Socialist from Lewes.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  175. Bill – perry doesn’t care that what he is espousing has been thoroughly fisked and debunked as being a steaming pile of Perry.

    JD (121b80) — 1/23/2016 @ 6:13 pm

    Aye. I’m done with it. He sure as hell has nothing to add, pro or con.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  176. But again, I agree with PJ,
    we’re in deep armadillo do-do when we spend this much time arguing over who is too terrible to ever vote for.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/23/2016 @ 6:15 pm

    Agreed. The earlies primaries haven’t even been held yet, much less the RNC (gawd, what a clusterf**k that’s going to be), and we are rapidly closing in on premature election.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  177. No, not a coherent argument.

    “A big reason to vote for Trump is not that one has to vote for somebody,
    it is to shout it out that one is fed up being betrayed by repubs.”

    Not a big reason at all, your succumbing to emotion rather than acquiring ability to reason is sad. Go find a high powered rifle and a bell tower if you’ve reached that point. Why do you insist on hurting those around you who have not left the battlefield?

    pieter (ec44a2)

  178. How can we even articulate a coherent concern for the future of the country, in light of the absurdity of Trump’s candidacy? What is the “future of the country” that people perceive, that they think Trump would correct in any way, shape, or form? A bunch of self-proclaimed fiscal conservatives want the guy with four corporate bankruptcies and a fundamentally engrained arrogance and opulence to be the voice of fiscal sanity for a country with $18 trillion dollars of debt?

    What we’re seeing is people who are so extremely pissed off by left-wing policies that they… are flocking in droves to the most left-wing candidate available to them?! It’s easily the strangest political response I’ve seen in my young life, and it’s terrifying. Trump is nothing, nothing whatsoever, but an empty vessel willing to harness intense, poisonous, factional hate (which republican government is meant to neutralize) and unleash it like a feral dog for his own patrician amusement.

    Leviticus is right.

    You’re right. I know you are. The funny thing is, I absolutely understand the disaffection. I’ve struggled with it for years. But the reaction was different – I just stepped back and stayed out of it. To see so many people channeling their disaffection into active, mindless hate is terrifying. They gazed into the abyss, and the abyss gazed back into them.

    I lay a great deal of the blame for Trump’s candidacy at the feet of the counterproductive American mentality that we HAVE to vote, no matter how terrible the candidates are. That is a false premise from which a great deal of wrongheaded, faux-pragmatic arguments stem. You don’t like any of the candidates? Don’t vote. Your vote is a stamp of approval, and a sacred privilege – not a token of resigned acquiescence to be dropped into the receptacle that horrifies you the least. You’re not gonna stop the country from electing a monster if it wants to, but that doesn’t mean that you should participate in electing one yourself.

    Leviticus is right, again.

    “The base of support for Trump is a protest vote against everyone else,
    it has nothing to do with being a conservative or not.”

    – MD in Philly

    That’s exactly the mentality I’m talking about – the mentality that we have to support SOMEONE, regardless of how terrible that person is, because… [something]. I really don’t understand it.

    Write in a person you would actually like to lead. Talk that person up. If enough people agree with you, that person will get elected President, same as if you voted for a piece of sh*t like Donald Trump. And you will have given an account of yourself.

    Leviticus is right, yet again!

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  179. You guys really need to back off the “you need to choose the lesser of two evils!” argument.

    Because if I go with that argument, I go with Hillary.

    I’ve explained this already, but I’ll explain it again. My calculus is this: Hillary is a Democrat who will offer up leftist policies. Trump is also a Democrat who will offer up leftist policies.

    The GOP will fight Hillary on her leftist policies.

    But the GOP will enact Trump’s leftist policies. And they will give them the Republican Stamp of Approval.

    Trump would be worse. And I believe he would grab for more executive power. And I believe there is a (very remote) outside chance that he could turn into a genuine totalitarian monster. The signs are there, and we would have to be idiots not to be on guard for them.

    So be thankful that I don’t vote the lesser of two evils. Be thankful that, emotionally, I could never vote for Hillary Clinton, even if I thought she was less dangerous than the opposing candidate.

    Or, more realistically, don’t be thankful. Don’t care about how I vote at all. Because my vote doesn’t matter.

    The sooner people figure this out, the sooner we can figure out what to do next.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  180. 62. pieter (ec44a2) — 1/23/2016 @ 3:53 pm

    If Trump is a born again Republican, steeped in the understanding of our founding principles, defender of Sovereign individual liberty, and enemy of all that is corrupt-corporatist-crony in our government…

    I don’t think he’s even claiming any of that. Those are not his issues. What he’s trying to do is to stand alone in whatever he proposes.

    He does seem to have reversed himself on many social issues, and seems to have rversed himself about “comprehensive immigration reform” but does admit to any kind of epiphany. He’s acting like every position he has, he always had.

    when exactly did this epiphany happen

    It would have to be approximately in May, 2015. But he’s not claiming any epiphany.

    and why?
    He decided to run for president as a Republican.

    Sammy Finkelman (dbec95)

  181. really how hard have they fought Obama, the reverse is true, and it would likely be true with Cruz,

    narciso (732bc0)

  182. Wow. Levidicus gets three big wet kisses and the rest of us just sit here holding our…….participation trophies.

    Fact is the Trump people are not being forced to vote for Trump. Are they? Just as Hillary! people aren’t forced to vote for her. And they are supporting “SOMEONE”, his name is Trump. They could very well support NO ONE.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  183. “Same vapid BS argument you pushed on us 4 years ago. And 4 years before that.”

    JD (121b8

    Well, hello, JD. So good to hear from you. I don’t remember pushing for McCain, but I do stand behind my support for teh Romney. It appears you’re good with what’s transpired these last 7 years, so I don’t expect to find any common ground with you.

    As I said, I support and donate to my candidate, Ted Cruz. As for the rest of all of this, put it in your pipe and light up.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  184. How many GOP votes for ObamaCare, narciso?

    I’m not saying they couldn’t have done more. Of course I’m not saying that!

    But people who say there is no difference between the parties are not entirely correct.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  185. Patterico, pretty sure everything that pisses people off now will piss them off even enacted under a Trump presidency with the full blessing of our BS Republican congress. Regret is a wonderful learning tool, hope the VP is worth their salt.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  186. Eff a bunch of Hillary Clinton, that is criminally insane.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  187. Patterico, pretty sure everything that pisses people off now will piss them off even enacted under a Trump presidency with the full blessing of our BS Republican congress.

    It will be interesting to see. I compare Trump to Arnold here in Kahleefornia, but there was no Arnold cult of personality like there is for Trump. I think he could pass anything, even amnesty, and his supporters would defend it.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  188. the courts will discover their oversight authority, the networks will be back to ‘speaking truth to power’, they’ll be such a ‘chill wind’ we will never hear the end of Tim Robbins,

    narciso (732bc0)

  189. “The GOP will fight Hillary on her leftist policies.”

    Evidence, please. Really haven’t seen much pushback on any of this.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  190. Trump is likely to implode, he has to be approaching critical douche-mass. Perhaps the question will be moot, folks will smell the coffee, …pigs won’t fly.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  191. Eff a bunch of Hillary Clinton

    We agree!

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  192. We are fickle electorate. Americans love squirrels.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  193. Evidence, please. Really haven’t seen much pushback on any of this.

    I’ll repeat the question I asked narciso:

    How many GOP votes were there for ObamaCare?

    I can’t believe I’m the one having to make this argument to you. It seems like it should be the reverse, no? Aren’t you the one who generally offers a realistic “at least x is better than y” approach?

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  194. Trump is likely to implode, he has to be approaching critical douche-mass. Perhaps the question will be moot, folks will smell the coffee, …pigs won’t fly.

    I already said I still think Cruz wins Iowa.

    But I do think I could be wrong and Trump could be the GOP nominee.

    President? No. I’ll lay down a marker and say: never gonna happen.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  195. Careful there, Patterico, you’re sounding more like me every week. Not that that’s a bad thing.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  196. UPDATE: A Trump supporter on Twitter sent me the link to a longer clip with context:

    He says it shows he was only talking about the media’s characterization of his supporters. Ehhhh . . . kinda sorta, but not really. My interpretation is it’s a little of both. Anyway, thought it would only be fair to provide what his supporters argue is context — and which may arguably be, to some small degree.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  197. Congress is like…a penis. It needs to be played with constantly by the right person. Lately, we have ignored it, let it visit K street strip clubs and prostitute itself for easy money. I blame myself for not taking the time to help rub one out. I am a sad example of a model citizen dedicated civic responsibility.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  198. Man, you guys hate the idea of Trump taking away your mexican slaves.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  199. I’m part Mexican, thank you very much.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  200. Lots of slave traders of the years bought and sold their own.

    The only reason establishment Republicans have a problem with Trump is because they are desperate to keep their mexican slave labor and drive down wages.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  201. Joe, when was the last time you voiced your opinion to your state and federal representatives? If never or you have no idea who they are, you’re way behind if you think a potential presidential candidate will cure what ills.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  202. Patterico said: I think (Trump) could pass anything, even amnesty, and his supporters would defend it.

    If that’s actually your considered opinion, rather than hyperbole, then think again. Trump’s supporters fully expect him to deliver on his campaign promises. Amnesty would bring down the hounds of hell on his head, non-stop as long as grass grows and rivers run to sea, the and he knows it too even if you have doubts.

    ropelight (b80664)

  203. I my congressman Steve Knight just this week. Thanks for asking.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  204. Joe, my apologies. Did he barf in your car coming back from the strip club?

    pieter (ec44a2)

  205. I get it. You are angry we are going to take away your mexican slaves.

    Try being a decent businessman and compete in the marketplace without mexican slaves.

    Joe (45c35f)

  206. Joe, whoa whoa whoa…we call them undocumented Hispanic workers now. Get with the program.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  207. Joe, are you getting paid a nickel for every mention of the phrase, “Mexican slaves”?

    By the way, why do Mexicans voluntarily leave Mexico in order to become slaves in the United States? Do they get paid better here?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  208. Stormfront never did provide anything of value. Not even when they were cheerleading for Laup Nor.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  209. The slave owners of yesteryear were no different than you guys.

    We had to destroy the confederacy to stop slavery and now we will destroy the establishment Republicans to end slavery.

    Enjoy your tantrum but we are going to take away your slaves and you simply cant drive down wages with slave labor anymore.

    Joe (45c35f)

  210. Be careful throwing around that word slave. It’s the wrong word and it has too many highly charged and divisive historical antecedents.

    ropelight (b80664)

  211. Slave is 100% correct. Establishment Republicans have been importing helpless slaves for profit and fun for years.

    Just look around Los Angeles. You built that. The vast majority of the slaves were imported by George W. Bush.

    As far as I’m concerned you are criminal slave traders and should hang for it once found guilty in a court of law.

    Joe (45c35f)

  212. Yesteryear, as in last year? Hey! Why didn’t I get a slave? I’m always at the wrong party…

    Jesus, Joe, we really are on the same team. Korea candidates want the immigration laws enforced, put up a real fence, deport the criminals, etc.

    Take a deep breath, drink heavily, don’t vote for Trump.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  213. Joe, you’re ignorant.
    Blacks who were slaves didn’t have legal rights. They didn’t get paid. And they were forced to work against their will.

    On the other hand, Mexicans who migrate to the United States for better economic opportunities are doing so by choice. We realize you’re angry, but please do not equate the two.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  214. “I blew my congressman Steve Knight just this week. Thanks for asking..”

    Joe (29bbdb) — 1/23/2016 @ 7:02 pm

    FIFY

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  215. Damned kindle, many not Korea.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  216. flint children have died of legionnaires disease you better hope trump wins. what is the conservative position on poisoning children with lead and infecting them with legionnaires disease?

    xeke (b674d9)

  217. Holy smokes, colonel, over the top funny.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  218. You had your chance. We are not on the same team. I voted Republican for 25 years and year after year after year there are more mexican slaves imported driving down wages for the working class.

    I’ve watched American kids become impoverished. LA now has the highest poverty rate in America. I was born and raised in Los Angeles.

    I’m going to do everything to destroy the establishment Republicans including vote for Hilary if Trump isn’t the candidate.

    You had your chance. Its time to destroy you and build something new.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  219. Joe,

    You would probably earn higher wages if you weren’t always smoking dope.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  220. Not a scumbag lawyer, but I do make over 300K.

    Thanks for clarifying that establishment Republicans don’t give a damn about the middle class construction workers that I grew up with that are now poor because of your mexican slaves.

    You don’t want their votes nor deserve it.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  221. Perry, concerning Flint. (How did that get into this thread?)
    Ask the Democrat mayor of Flint.
    Ask the Democrat city council of Flint.
    Democrats have run that city into the ground.
    Also ask Obama’s Democrat EPA, which chose to hide things instead of harming Democrat politicians.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  222. Joe, I am not a mental health clinician, but…we are on the same team (makes no sudden movements) and we will sort this out together (doesn’t make eye contact) and somehow we will make sure Mr Trump is your next president (signals to the nurse who has a big hypo of feelgood).

    Joe, sometimes you scare me.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  223. Joe, call the suicide hotline. You’re wrapped way too tight.

    ropelight (b80664)

  224. I suspect “Joe” is not long for this site.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  225. God forbid you hear an option you disagree with. Need a safe space?

    Joe (29bbdb)

  226. Joe,

    You’re giving us too much information…announcing your activities with your Congressman. Then you admit to smoking too much dope. And then you claim you make 300K as a coyote for a Mexican drug cartel.

    Maybe you should go to church tomorrow.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  227. I hope your pants are on while you fantasize about me. You one of those Hastert Republicans?

    Joe (29bbdb)

  228. I think Joe is providing us some insight into the type of person who fanatically supports Trump.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  229. Those who have given up all hope on the establishment slave owners.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  230. Joe, I kid. So you make six times more than this dumb E8 with 25 years…hmm, why are bitching, again? I bet if we compared disgruntled crazy, I’d win.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  231. And then you claim you make 300K as a coyote for a Mexican drug cartel.

    Joe actually smuggles in the Mexican slaves he claims to hate so much? Now that’s interesting.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  232. Joe, I am not a mental health clinician, but…we are on the same team (makes no sudden movements) and we will sort this out together (doesn’t make eye contact) and somehow we will make sure Mr Trump is your next president (signals to the nurse who has a big hypo of feelgood).

    Now that’s funny! Who is this pieter guy and why haven’t I seen him on the site before?

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  233. I think it says so much about you that you think slavery is something to laugh at.

    No one should ever vote establishment Republican again.

    Thanks for clarifying that.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  234. 222 you must be fox news zombie. Republican gov. snyder took over flint and installed his own manager who was ordered to pay back banks holding bonds(his contributors) by saving 140 dollars a day by not treating flint rivers polluted water democrat mayor objected but had no power left to stop it.

    xeke (b674d9)

  235. Joe, do you really hope my pants are on? You’ve already admitted to certain proclivities. But seriously, I bet you have a better chance of picking up a Saturday night date at The Daily Kos, than here.

    Then again, if you’re in the LA area, you may want to hit up that Little Green Footballs guy.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  236. Now you call your mexican slaves, “Little Green Guys”.

    Stay Classy.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  237. lol, clearly that region 5 director will be given a promotion, like the ones in charge in Colorado

    narciso (732bc0)

  238. I am the Groucho of periodic commenters, been kicked off most of th reputable sites that I respect. Happens. No blame, generally my fault.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  239. we’re speaking of carlhs jhonson, who used to speak sense on radical islam, but went to underverse and came back stranger,

    narciso (732bc0)

  240. He’s known as Joe the Huero in the biz…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  241. Joe,

    You’re the one spending his Saturday night at a conservative blog. I know what I’m looking for. But tell us, why are YOU here? (*wink wink*)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  242. it’s the python sketch with the erroneous hungarian phrasebook,

    narciso (732bc0)

  243. I think Joe went home with Perry.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  244. Listen, I’ve drunkenly trolled many a site…Joe may not be sober or properly medicated, but he needs us. Please hear his plea regarding the plight of Mexican slaves, for only 23 dollars a month you can help. If you decide to make a difference, a picture with a letter from one of the unfortunate illegal border crossers will be sent to you (music starts, picture of someone doing a bang-up job at Trump’ s golf course)…

    (drops mic)

    pieter (ec44a2)

  245. I would buy myself, but I priced myself out of the market, so I can’t afford myself.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  246. Pfffft. John, that there is funny.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  247. pieter,

    Patterico will be angry with me for incurring expensive licensing fees without his approval, but I think I just appropriated one of Sarah McLachalan’s songs to accompany your voiceover for the ninety second video documenting the plight of our friend Joe.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  248. Man, you guys hate the idea of Trump taking away your mexican slaves.

    Joe (29bbdb) — 1/23/2016 @ 6:56 pm

    Hey Joe, that’s an awful lot of cultural appropriation in one sentence.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  249. C S, you are a great credit to this American experiment. Sense of humor and mild retardation will get you through most adversity. Not sure which is your strong point, keep working on it.

    In seriousness, I think Patterico and most others on this site enjoy those survivor traits, it only scares us when shit stops being funny.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  250. When you think about it, Joe is only choosing the lesser of two evils.

    nk (dbc370)

  251. Listen, I’ve drunkenly trolled many a site…Joe may not be sober or properly medicated, but he needs us. Please hear his plea regarding the plight of Mexican slaves, for only 23 dollars a month you can help. If you decide to make a difference, a picture with a letter from one of the unfortunate illegal border crossers will be sent to you (music starts, picture of someone doing a bang-up job at Trump’ s golf course)…

    (drops mic)

    pieter (ec44a2) — 1/23/2016 @ 7:50 pm

    Sorry dude, but you are simply not as cute as Kaley Cuoco with a pixie haircut talking about baby seal hunts.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  252. Yeah, Hitchcock, you think you’ve got troubles? If my Mexican- American wife of 40 years (a/o 1/31, thank you) reads about this, I’m sunk. And if our three kids do? Fuhgedaboutit. All those years helping me with the yard work and washing our cars, they’d break me.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  253. Oh, I want to go on a baby seal hunt! They make great boots!

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  254. Besides, Greek slaves are the best.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  255. Bill, you obviously haven’t seen me in a push up bra. Two more operations and I’ll be a real…not sure what, actually. Kaley is very hot, something to shoot for…I love goals.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  256. Joe and Perry’s act is “special”

    JD (b3cb62)

  257. narciso (732bc0) — 1/23/2016 @ 7:41 pm

    “Threshhold, take us to the threshhold!’

    felipe (56556d)

  258. pieter,

    If you aspire to Kaley’s bra size, you’ll need to eat your Wheaties.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  259. The entire if you don’t for Team R nominee then you are supporting Team D nominee, Colonel Haiku, is what I was and am referring to. Neither side has earned my vote, and should they not earn it, I retain the right to show the folly of their ways. Both sides.

    JD (b3cb62)

  260. CS, love the Wheaties inference. I wish Americans would lighten up about folks cutting their dicks off. Bill Burr was hilarious talking about Jenner surprising us with his decision.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  261. JD, you seem really smart…can you send me text or something when you make up your mind so I know what to do? Thanks a bunch.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  262. Too many queers.

    ropelight (b80664)

  263. Pieter – I seek not to influence anyone. But I refuse to get guilted into voting for a POS candidate anymore. Someone can earn my vote.

    JD (b3cb62)

  264. Rope, can I call you Rope? Rope, when I was a young man fag was funny. The only thing I truly regret from LGBT movement is that was all taken away. One man’s “queer” is another man’s five bucks the hard way. So it goes.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  265. JD, just joshin’ with you. Sometimes it’s hard choosing the right POS. I’m with ya, buddy.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  266. I’m working on an “opt-out” clause, so that federal laws and tax codes do not apply to me unless I voted in a particular presidential election. My cousin Jimmy is a guinea pig test case. He only has 17 years left. But he’s eligible for parole in 2023!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  267. JD, on a serious note…what does “earn your vote” entail? We have election laws laws, y’know. Rumor has it, some of these elected officials will play flootsy with you in a public bathroom…not the best method for determining the next POTUS. Rope, are you paying attention?

    There is no earn your vote proposition. Only whether in your best guestimation they have the competence, character, and motivation to perform their sworn constitutional duties. Ask Yoda about the existence of “try”, there is none. The candidate will either meet your expectations or they won’t.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  268. Commenting while others are talking to you is hard, makes me repeat words. Yada yada your daughter’s pregnant, yada yada we haven’t eaten this week…fresh, can’t you see I’m commenting on Ace’ s site? Really tired of selfish people who don’t realize there is an important election coming up.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  269. Damned kindle, geeesh not fresh.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  270. Good luck with that, Goldilo… er, JD.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  271. And if they don’t, they won’t get my vote.

    JD (b3cb62)

  272. I don’t need luck, colonel.

    JD (b3cb62)

  273. pieter, and Colonel, you guys should see all the money I saved in federal income taxes as a result of abstaining from voting in the 2012 presidential election. The IRS sent me an inquiry as to why I haven’t filed since then, but when I told them, “Well, I abstained from voting in the 2012 presidential election,” they were like, “Oh, okay. No problem.”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  274. JD, you had me at “if they don’t”…you perv, what are we talking about?

    pieter (ec44a2)

  275. All those years helping me with the yard work and washing our cars, they’d break me.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/23/2016 @ 8:12 pm

    Just tell them you’ve been investing in a life-long career for them.

    Bill, you obviously haven’t seen me in a push up bra. Two more operations and I’ll be a real…not sure what, actually. Kaley is very hot, something to shoot for…I love goals.

    pieter (ec44a2) — 1/23/2016 @ 8:15 pm

    No. No I have not. You mentioned E-8? I love a man in a uniform.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  276. CS, I pay my taxes because…Jesus, why am I paying my taxes?!?

    (great, someone talk pieter off of the ledge. Who’s turn is it?)

    pieter (ec44a2)

  277. I like this pieter person. Though I’m fairly certain we will nastily disagree at some point, you are good folk. Like colonel. We tangle, but he’s my guy.

    JD (b3cb62)

  278. Ask Yoda about the existence of “try”, there is none.

    True this is! Do, or do not. There is no try. For in try, failure there is!

    Yoda (feee21)

  279. Commenting while others are talking to you is hard, makes me repeat words. Yada yada your daughter’s pregnant, yada yada we haven’t eaten this week…fresh, can’t you see I’m commenting on Ace’ s site? Really tired of selfish people who don’t realize there is an important election coming up.

    pieter (ec44a2) — 1/23/2016 @ 9:07 pm

    What’s your nic there? You on the ONT?

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  280. Bill, proudly a 1SG in the gayest branch of the Army, aviation. Not put it in your mouth gay but smart enough to know talking about it around others who get seriously uncomfortable is hilarious. Whatever makes the time go by.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  281. Twenty minutes and Elvis has to leave the building. Gotta take my daughter to work in the morning…love hearing her stories about how much of a challenge it is. Anybody else love hearing the revelations of what it means to sacrifice so much from someone born three decades ago? Where did they think the food, shelter and clothes came from? And folks wonder why I drink and comment.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  282. Bill, proudly a 1SG in the gayest branch of the Army, aviation. Not put it in your mouth gay but smart enough to know talking about it around others who get seriously uncomfortable is hilarious. Whatever makes the time go by.
    pieter (ec44a2) — 1/23/2016 @ 9:22 pm

    Heh! Now that’s funny sh!t.

    Pons Asinorum (49e2e8)

  283. 148Would a shorter announcement be that you are a single-issue voter, and immigration is it? Immigration is important, yes, but not the only large-scale problem facing us.

    So what are the top three things Cruz (or whoever) would accomplish?

    A President who wanted to move towards a more restrictive immigration policy could easily do so unilaterally. On other issues it is harder to get anything done even assuming I agree with what they want to get done.

    James B. Shearer (0f56fb)

  284. Seriously, is there anything funnier than terrible business people who cant compete without slave labor having a tantrum because Trump is going to deport their slaves?

    Joe (29bbdb)

  285. 275… Funny stuff, CS!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  286. 148? Why can’t you say Bill? You’re killin’ me, Smalls. Perhaps it is time to reconoiter the ONT.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  287. pieter, there’s nothing wrong with drinking and commenting. It’s people who you learn are actually totally sober when they write some of their comments—those are the people we should worry about! (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  288. Patterico would rape your children and murder your family if it meant he could keep his mexican slaves.

    Joe (29bbdb)

  289. 282… that is effing hilarious!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  290. Joe, I’m told patterico plays a mean game of squash, but he does draw the line at the appropriate time. Lighten up, Francis.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  291. Just pointing out how the Patterico types would do anything to keep their mexican slave labor.

    Total fanatics.

    Joe (45c35f)

  292. Elvis may be leaving the building, but Joe Stalin has entered it!

    #286 Joe, why do you suppose Barack Obama is allowing the enslavement of Mexicans to take place during his watch? He must benefit, huh? We already know about his Fast & Furious gun-running operation. Is there a name given to his Mexican slave running operation—I mean, besides, “Left Wing Douchebag Policy” ?

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  293. CS, look at Joe’s last comment (glance, don’t make it obvious…shot, shot he sees you looking, stare at your drink, pretend you’re laughing at something I said…is he still looking at you? Whew, that was close). Yes, some folks can be a little over the top.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  294. Psst, George Bush let more illegals in than Obozo.

    You freaks are the same as Democrats. You love owning slaves.

    Joe (45c35f)

  295. Damned kindle, why can’t I say shit without having to check?

    pieter (ec44a2)

  296. Joe has officially screwed teh pooch, with a reach around even.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  297. PONS !!!!!!

    JD (b3cb62)

  298. I hear you slave owners are into raping your property.

    Are you afraid Trump is going to deport the only women you can buy?

    Joe (29bbdb)

  299. Buh-bye Joe

    JD (b3cb62)

  300. So what are the top three things Cruz (or whoever) would accomplish?

    A President who wanted to move towards a more restrictive immigration policy could easily do so unilaterally. On other issues it is harder to get anything done even assuming I agree with what they want to get done.
    James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/23/2016 @ 9:37 pm

    Fight against illegal immigration
    Elimination of Obamacare
    Elimination of all of Obama’s executive orders that exceed the law
    Bring back warrior class
    Removal of any officer who defended Iran Nuclear deal
    Recognize Islamic terrorism and proceed to kill them
    Get feds out of education
    Establish a balanced budget (or even a budget, at this point)
    Put fear of the American People into:
    IRS
    EPA
    FBI
    etc
    Perp walk any official who violated the law:
    Fast and Furious
    Benghazi
    Not securing classified material
    Who persecuted American citizens for not voting for Obama

    …on day one, then we can get to the good stuff

    Pons Asinorum (49e2e8)

  301. So when you establishment Republicans rape your mexican slave property do you go for the kids too?

    Afraid Trump is going to deport the only women you can force?

    Joe (29bbdb)

  302. Not to be a dick, how is that I await moderation for using the word shit and Joe gets to be an uninterrupted nut?

    pieter (ec44a2)

  303. Hi JD!!

    Pons Asinorum (49e2e8)

  304. This just in… Breaking News! Joe has just been dismissed from the Trump campaign…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  305. PA, a good president would just enforce the existing laws. Crazy but I think there might be an oath to that effect. Who knew? Time to call it a night, tired of waiting for comments to get “moderated” while Joe gets his say unfiltered.

    pieter (ec44a2)

  306. Joe will be promoted in the Trump campaign for aggressive asshattery.

    JD (b3cb62)

  307. Hey Joe, wearing a bad comb-over like Trump only works if you’re 6’4″ and worth ten billion dollars. It might work if you were worth a few hundred million, but not with your beer gut and bad golf shirts! (LOL)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  308. 301

    That’s about 15 things.

    James B. Shearer (0f56fb)

  309. Mr. Pieter, Yep, step 1. Think everyone would agree to that… well, not Obama Dems obviously, but all the good eggs.

    Pons Asinorum (49e2e8)

  310. Sorry James, pick any three then.

    Pons Asinorum (49e2e8)

  311. Life is good. Pons is back.

    JD (b3cb62)

  312. Life is good JD, you are still on the job, still in the fight after all these years!

    Pons Asinorum (49e2e8)

  313. Joe’s mamma worked hard last night during the blizzard, in a truck stop. Jumping from rig to rig she was caught with mexican jumping beans and a pack of mules.

    mg (31009b)

  314. I would feel better about Ted if beck was eighty-sixed.
    Why would Ted use this turd?

    mg (31009b)

  315. 148? Why can’t you say Bill? You’re killin’ me, Smalls. Perhaps it is time to reconoiter the ONT.

    pieter (ec44a2) — 1/23/2016 @ 9:41 pm

    Me no speeka da Engles? I was just wondering what his entire point was.

    If I go over, I prolly just lurk. Same nic here as there. Unless I sock.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  316. Joe’s mamma worked hard last night during the blizzard, in a truck stop. Jumping from rig to rig she was caught with mexican jumping beans and a pack of mules.

    mg (31009b) — 1/23/2016 @ 10:41 pm

    Oh, OK. I geddit now. His momma was a slave.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  317. She trains mules…..

    mg (31009b)

  318. Time to go blow more snow.
    16 inches so far in my neck of Cape Cod.

    mg (31009b)

  319. Just keep in mind there really is a candidate in this race who could shoot a child on a playground and her supporters wouldn’t care.

    In fact, she has gotten people killed, and with new revelations about the content of her emails she has without a doubt endangered even more people’s lives, and for all we know those people may have been killed as well.

    All for her “convenience.” It would be inconvenient for Hillary! to comply with FOIA requests and Congressional oversight.

    Since I’m not going to sit on her jury or judge her case there’s not reason for me to maintain the fiction that I’m supposed to believe she’s innocent unless and until she’s proven guilty. It’s BS. Not everyone in a courtroom is supposed to believe a person on trial is innocent until they’re proven guilty. The police are supposed to believe a suspect isn’t innocent; they’re supposed to believe a suspect is guilty of the crime they intend to to ask the DA’s office to charge and they intend to testify about the person’s guilt. And prosecutors are supposed to believe the suspect is guilty as well. If they aren’t convinced of the suspect’s guilt, they are committing an ethical violation by charging and trying the suspect.

    And it certainly doesn’t apply to other witnesses who will testify to the suspect’s guilt, or the general public. As I said, since there’s no possible way I’ll be involved with a Hillary! trial I’m free to make up my own mind. And the evidence that she committed multiple, serious felonies and those felonies could have, may already have, cost people their lives is overwhelming. I’ve seen people get convicted for failing to safeguard classified information on less evidence that what we already know.

    But her supporters couldn’t care less. They’re proud of the fact she’s a skillful liar and a schemer who can prevent Republicans in Congress from getting to the truth. That’s why they’re voting for her. I recall some liberal writer (if memory serves it was Jonathon Chait, but I could easily be wrong) calling her home brew server “bad @$$.” Because she was sticking it to the Republicans by planning to deny them her emails. Who then cares about national security?

    If she does get indicted, and has to surrender her passport, make bail, and wear an ankle monitor while she awaits trial they’ll proudly and happily vote for her.

    I would say they’d vote for her if she has to run her campaign from her jail cell, but I figure the odds a judge won’t grant any bail she can’t afford pay are nil.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  320. I really don’t want President Eminent Domain (Cruz finally came out with an ad about that) but there could still be a bright side to a Trump presidency.

    http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2016/01/23/whoopi-goldberg-if-trump-wins-maybe-its-time-for-me-to-leave-america/

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  321. You know, not that I’m advocating this or anything, but if Trump were to get run over by a bus tomorrow, the future prospects of this country would improve markedly. Just sayin’

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  322. Sounds like Whoopi is coming out strong in favor of Cruz.
    She wants some Cruz control.
    The car is set on Cruz, and Ted is her pilot.

    Context? What… You mean Trump didn’t insult his entire constituency, and day dream out loud about committing murder, because the cherry picked tid bit making the rounds was a well played lie?

    Here’s my shocked face. ]^O^[

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  323. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdues; but once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.

    — Samuel Adams

    Interesting guy

    Pons Asinorum (49e2e8)

  324. YourMaster (1/23/2016 @ 3:36 pm)

    the GOP establishment who support cruz…

    WTH are you talking about? What drugs are you on?

    Ted Cruz took donations from Goldman Sachs (ted cruz also called them crony capitalists). so they obviously get special favors from Cruz…

    There is nothing at all obvious about this, except to a drooling moron who has no idea how politics works.

    when the GOP was put in the majority in congress/Senate… and was a literally mandate for them to repeal 0bamacare.

    Literally, huh? Do you have any idea what the word “mandate” means? Does it come with the power to do it?

    I have yet to see the GOP succeed at such…

    And how exactly do you suggest they could have done this? Only a drooling moron thinks a majority in Congress can do whatever it likes.

    btw… you can tell this to Cruz…
    If you want me and others to vote for Cruz, he’ll have to fulfill this lil task to prove to voters he is an actual conservative himself. the task is to repeal 0bamacare… before 0bama leaves office

    Wow, even more moronitude. Even if Congress could somehow do this, and it can’t, how exactly could Cruz do it on his own?

    Seriously, this is about the stupidest comment I have seen in a very long time. It takes a dedicated stupid machine to produce it. It should be put in a museum of stupidity. (1) Cruz does not control Congress; (2) A majority in Congress can block new laws it doesn’t like, but making new laws that the president objects to takes 2/3 in each house. Without that repealing 0bamacare is impossible.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  325. and hopefully, after 0bama gets kicked out of office,
    they can banish him permanently from the USA.

    I forgot this final bit of moronitude. US citizens cannot be banished from the USA no matter what they’ve done.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  326. narciso- thanks again for tuning me on to Clarice.
    http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2016/01/a_soft_civil_war.html

    mg (31009b)

  327. Joe’s mamma worked hard last night during the blizzard, in a truck stop. Jumping from rig to rig she was caught with mexican jumping beans and a pack of mules.

    i read somewheres this is dangerous cause of when it’s cold your blood vessels constrict and if you do too much exertions you can have a heart attack and fall down deader than david bowie

    happyfeet (831175)

  328. US citizens cannot be banished from the USA no matter what they’ve done.

    food stamp’s such a twerp though if you stand in front of him when he gets to customs he’s not gonna be able to get past you and sooner or later he’ll just give up and go away

    happyfeet (831175)

  329. 325. I forgot this final bit of moronitude. US citizens cannot be banished from the USA no matter what they’ve done.

    Milhouse (87c499) — 1/24/2016 @ 1:08 am

    Natural born citizens can’t be banished. But naturalized citizens can. They can be stripped of their citizenship for a variety of reasons. Such as concealing or lying about pertinent facts during your citizenship application. Such as lying about criminal convictions, using false names, etc.

    That’s the situation Palestinian terrorist Rasmieh Odeh has put herself in. If her conviction stands, she has lost her citizenship and will be deported from the US after she serves her sentence for perjury.

    Another example would be John Demjanjuk, the ex-concentration camp guard, who was stripped of his citizenship and deported to Germany for trial. He died there before his trial was completed.

    When someone has been denaturalized and deported, they’re never allowed to step foot back into the US again.

    If that’s not banishment then the word means nothing.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  330. her canadian voter registration has been shown many times

    You’re lying, as usual.
    1. The document published is not a voter registration.
    2. Even if it were, it wouldn’t prove that she renounced her US citizenship.
    3. Even if it did, it dates from 1974; Ted was born in 1971. At the time of his birth she hadn’t lived in Canada for 5 years, so she couldn’t have become Canadian even if she’d wanted to, which she didn’t.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  331. Any rafael cruz lovers google cruz mother on 1974 canadian voter registration list and read cruz lame excuse that that doesn’t matter because he doesn’t want it too!

    Question: in what year was Ted born? Even if that were a list of registered voters, which it wasn’t, how could such a list from 1974 be relevant?

    Milhouse (87c499)

  332. I asked for proof, not say-so. You know full well just about anything can be made up by someone with Photoshop and a grudge.

    It’s not a photoshop, it’s just irrelevant. It’s a list of who lived at each address, from which voter rolls could be prepared. It included all adult residents, whether they could vote or not, and certainly whether they were registered or not.

    But even if it had been an actual roll of registered voters, it would be irrelevant because it’s from 3 years after Ted’s birth, and because US citizenship is a constitutional right and can’t be lost unless you deliberately renounce it. Becoming a foreign citizen doesn’t do it.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  333. You take a quote from the lsm and use it the way they intended. Of course they lied. Read Don Surber’s blog to find out the truth.

    He said “they say I can….” Not, “I can….”

    http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2016/01/fifth-avenue-liars.html

    I would prefer Cruz rather than Trump, but, Trump rather than any other repub or dem.

    He fights back. He will not let the press or hillary paint him unfairly without fighting back. repubs have been losing the battle for years because they are afraid to counter punch.

    Jim (a9b7c7)

  334. Joe (29bbdb) — 1/23/2016 @ 7:18 pm

    You had your chance. We are not on the same team. I voted Republican for 25 years and year after year after year there are more mexican slaves imported driving down wages for the working class.

    This is simply not true. They do not drive down wages for anybody else. This works in practice, but, as the joke bout the Marxist economists goes, the question some people have is: How does it work in theory?

    It is possible they take new jobs that wouldn’t otherwise exist but if they had to get paid the regular rate. But it would their illegal status that would tend to contribuute to that)

    Sammy Finkelman (dbec95)

  335. Man, you guys hate the idea of Trump taking away your mexican slaves.

    There is no such thing as “mexican slaves”. Anyone who is free to leave his job whenever he finds a better one is not a slave.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  336. Try being a decent businessman and compete in the marketplace without mexican slaves.

    Republicans believe in free trade. If you believe in price supports for white labor then you’re no better than those Californian proto-nazis in the 1860s who fought against the “yellow peril”.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  337. Jesus, Joe, we really are on the same team.

    Speak for yourself, pieter. I am not on any team that includes this “Joe”. The nonsense concept of “wage slavery” is Marxist twaddle. And the most basic principle of liberal (i.e. conservative) economics is that the price of everything, including labor, should be as low as it will naturally go, because the consumer’s interest is the general interest and should be promoted over the special interest of producers.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  338. flint children have died of legionnaires disease you better hope trump wins. what is the conservative position on poisoning children with lead and infecting them with legionnaires disease?

    WTH has legionnaires disease got to do with lead? And WTH has the lead in Flint water got to do wit Republicans? It was a Democrat city council that decided to go with a cheaper water supplier in 2017, and a Democrat Detroit water board that decided to retaliate by cutting Flint off two years early. And a Democrat EPA sat on the news about the elevated lead levels and didn’t tell anyone for 8 months. And nobody in Flint is dying of lead poisoining anyway; I haven’t even heard of anyone showing symptoms. All the fuss is about an elevated risk, not anyone actually being harmed.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  339. Thanks for clarifying that establishment Republicans don’t give a damn about the middle class construction workers that I grew up with that are now poor because of your mexican slaves.

    Nobody is entitled to make more money than people are willing to pay them. Nobody is entitled to a middle-class living. No white person is entitled to make more than a Mexican doing the same work, just because he’s white. Or to be employed in preference to a Mexican just because he’s white. If you can’t make the kind of living you want in your current field, find something else to do, or else accept that you just aren’t worth that kind of money. Demanding that someone else be kept from competing with you so you can raise your prices is protectionism, no matter whether you’re a builder’s laborer or a sugar planter or a steel mill owner.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  340. Republican gov. snyder took over flint and installed his own manager who was ordered to pay back banks holding bonds(his contributors) by saving 140 dollars a day by not treating flint rivers polluted water democrat mayor objected but had no power left to stop it.

    Bulldust. The decision to switch water supplies was taken by the Democrat mayor and city council, not by the financial manager.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  341. The entire if you don’t for Team R nominee then you are supporting Team D nominee, Colonel Haiku, is what I was and am referring to.

    But it’s true, at least if you live in a swing state. That shouldn’t necessarily stop you from doing so. Sometimes the right thing to do is to support the D nominee, at least in this negative way, by withholding your vote from an undeserving R nominee. And if the D ends up winning by one vote it will be your responsibility, so be sure you could live with that. So long as you could, then do as your conscience dictates.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  342. Natural born citizens can’t be banished. But naturalized citizens can. They can be stripped of their citizenship for a variety of reasons.

    No, they cannot. Once someone is naturalized the constitution says they can never lose it without their consent.

    Such as concealing or lying about pertinent facts during your citizenship application. Such as lying about criminal convictions, using false names, etc.

    That’s different. That means they were never naturalized in the first place. It’s no different from proving that someone who claimed citizenship through having been born on the US side of the border was actually born on the Mexican side. Or from proving that someone’s naturalization papers are forged and they were never naturalized at all.

    If her conviction stands, she has lost her citizenship

    She hasn’t lost it, she never had it in the first place. And that remains true even if her conviction is overturned. Her defense on the perjury charge is that she didn’t intentionally lie, because her PTSD (which she doesn’t actually have) blocked her from understanding the question. If the appeals court buys that it gets her out of the prison sentence, but her naturalization remains invalid so she just gets deported earlier.

    When someone has been denaturalized and deported, they’re never allowed to step foot back into the US again.

    That sentence remains exactly as true without the words “denaturalized and”. Anyone deported can’t come back, at least for a while. But citizens, whether by birth or naturalized, can’t be deported.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  343. Principles are stronger than bullets. That used to be true. That changed with the State-establishment of pro-choice or selective principles as a quasi-religion based on a faith pulled out of the dark fringes of a penumbra.

    n.n (be9a43)

  344. It’s not a photoshop, it’s just irrelevant. It’s a list of who lived at each address, from which voter rolls could be prepared. It included all adult residents, whether they could vote or not, and certainly whether they were registered or not.

    But even if it had been an actual roll of registered voters, it would be irrelevant because it’s from 3 years after Ted’s birth, and because US citizenship is a constitutional right and can’t be lost unless you deliberately renounce it. Becoming a foreign citizen doesn’t do it.

    Milhouse (87c499) — 1/24/2016 @ 6:38 am

    Got it. Thank you, Milhouse.

    Bill H (dcdd7b)

  345. She trains mules…..
    mg (31009b) — 1/23/2016 @ 11:14 pm

    Pulls trains she does!

    FIFY

    Yoda (feee21)

  346. 338 Nobody is entitled to make more money than people are willing to pay them. Nobody is entitled to a middle-class living. No white person is entitled to make more than a Mexican doing the same work, just because he’s white. Or to be employed in preference to a Mexican just because he’s white. …

    Not because they are white but because they are Americans. I expect the American President to favor Americans over Mexicans (or any other foreigners). Immigration should only be allowed when it is good for current Americans.

    And letting market value be the only determinate of income is problematic. In 1920 there were 25 million horses and mules in the US, by 1960 there only 3 million because they were no longer worth the cost of their keep. You can just send horses off to the glue factory when they no longer pay their way but dealing with useless people is harder. In a pure free market system a large and growing fraction of the population has no economic value which will cause lots of social problems. If fudging the free market a little will preserve jobs and allow people to support themselves this seems like a reasonable tradeoff.

    James B. Shearer (0f56fb)

  347. No, they cannot. Once someone is naturalized the constitution says they can never lose it without their consent.

    Milhouse (87c499) — 1/24/2016 @ 1:48 pm

    Yes, they can.

    http://www.uscis.gov/policymanual/HTML/PolicyManual-Volume12-PartL-Chapter2.

    Volume 12 – Citizenship & Naturalization, Part L – Revocation of Naturalization

    Chapter 2 – Grounds for Revocation of Naturalization…

    When the government begins denaturalization procedures against a naturalized US citizen, they don’t go into court and argue that individual was never a US citizen. They argue that person should not be a US citizen, and they want to court to strip them of their citizenship.

    Unless you don’t know what the word revoke means. You can not revoke something a person never had.

    C. Other than Honorable Discharge before Five Years of Honorable Service after Naturalization​

    ​A person is subject to revocation of naturalization if:​

    ​•The person became a ​United States​ citizen through naturalization on the basis of honorable service in the ​U.S.​ armed forces;​ [8]

    •The person subsequently separates from the ​U.S.​ armed forces under other than honorable conditions; and​

    •The other than honorable discharge occurs before the person has served honorably for a period or periods aggregating at least five years.​ [9] ​

    ​I bolded/italicizedd certain parts to try and make it simple for you. The government admits the person is a United States citizen. This person became a United States citizen through naturalization. They aren’t going to argue that person’s naturalization was never valid. This person didn’t acquire their citizenship illegally or fraudulently. This person had accumulated sufficient honorable service to have valid grounds for naturalization. So this person was naturalized a US citizen.

    But then this person blew it, and the government believes perhaps this individual no longer should be a citizen.

    So the government may take this person to court to take their citizenship away. They don’t have to; they can let this person retain their perfectly valid US citizenship. So can the judge, if the judge finds that stripping this person of citizenship is excessive. But if the judge decides differently then that person will lose their citizenship without their consent. Obviously, if they had the individual’s consent they wouldn’t need to go to court.

    Once again, it appears if what it takes for you to be right is to have your own facts, Milhouse, then by God you’ll make up your own facts. Independently of the definition of words, if needs be.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  348. Upon the surrender of the Southern army at Appomattox, the conditions of the terms for that surrender allowed the Confederate soldier to return home after taking an oath not to take up arms against the United States. Many general officers and high-ranking officials were stripped of their citizenship, requiring them to sign an amnesty oath before a notary public.

    Robert E. Lee, had to wait five months before he could apply for his citizenship. Now serving as president of the Washington College in Lexington, Virginia, Lee would sign the amnesty oath on October 2, 1865. But Lee would die a man without a country, still awaiting word from Washington about his citizenship.

    One hundred years after Lee’s oath was sent to Washington, a clerk came across it while sorting through papers at the National Archives. By an act of Congress and with the endorsement of President Gerald Ford, Lee’s citizenship was restored on July 22, 1975. It is believed an employee may have purposely misplaced it in 1865, thinking Lee did not deserve to be an American

    Yoda (feee21)

  349. Seems even natural born citizens have had their citizenship revoked, HMMMMMM?

    Yoda (feee21)

  350. Revoked? I think if you start your own country, raise an army, and lead it against your old country under a new flag, getting 650,000 people killed in the process, it’s some evidence that you voluntarily and explicitly renounced your old citizenship.

    nk (dbc370)

  351. Lincoln didn’t seem to have thought so. His view was that they couldn’t legally leave the Union, and the whole purpose of the war was to “Preserve the Union”. Plus they had their citizenship revoked once the war was over. So yeah, their citizenship was actually revoked!

    Yoda (feee21)

  352. It could certainly be taken as prima facie evidence, creating a rebuttable presumption of voluntary renunciation. However if someone was able to show that they had no such intention then the revocation would have been invalid. And that’s even before the 14th amendment.

    Steve, neither a government policy manual nor the Immigration and Nationality Act can override the 14th amendment, which explicitly makes citizenship, once lawfully obtained, irrevocable. (This was so even before the 14A, as Marshall J wrote in 1824 in Osborn v. Bank of the United States, but the 14A made it explicit.) See Afroyim v Rusk. ​INA 328(f)​ and ​INA 329(c)​ are therefore void on their faces and not enforceable, unless they are interpreted as saying that the grants of naturalization in those sections are provisional, subject to not being dishonorably discharged.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  353. Plus they had their citizenship revoked once the war was over. So yeah, their citizenship was actually revoked!

    As the majority in Afroyim wrote, “Measures of this kind passed in those days of emotional stress and hostility are by no means the most reliable criteria for determining what the Constitution means.”

    Milhouse (87c499)

  354. So Lee should have been hanged for treason then? https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleiii

    nk (dbc370)

  355. Also, at that time in our history, most people thought of themselves as citizens of their sovereign state first, and then as an United States citizens second. Such was Robert E. Lee’s view and the reason he became a southern general. Lee himself did not believe in slavery, but placed his duty to his country (Virginia) first.

    “With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have therefore resigned my commission in the Army, and save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword…..” Lee in a letter to his sister, April 20, 1861

    Yoda (feee21)

  356. just goes to show you the respect the warren court showed for precedent, unless it was theirs, then it stare decisis,

    narciso (732bc0)

  357. Afroyim did not overturn any precedent. On the contrary, as it shows, the principle that citizenship is irrevocable was firmly established even before the 14th amendment made it explicit. There is no contrary precedent. In fact, as the decision points out, at the time the constitution was ratified it wasn’t even clear that citizenship could be voluntarily renounced. Many believed that it could not. By the War of 1812 it was generally accepted that it could be renounced voluntarily, but not revoked involuntarily.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  358. Also, at that time in our history, most people thought of themselves as citizens of their sovereign state first, and then as an United States citizens second.

    Most people may have thought that way, but that view is hard to reconcile with the US constitution’s supremacy clause.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  359. So Lee should have been hanged for treason then?
    nk (dbc370) — 1/24/2016 @ 8:42 pm

    Where in Article III does it designate hanging is the punishment for treason? I see where it gives Congress the power to set the punishment, and they had their citizenship revoked under the 14th amendment Section 3.

    Yoda (feee21)

  360. it repealed perez didn’t it, a law passed before the war came to be,

    narciso (732bc0)

  361. 14A §3 doesn’t revoke anyone’s citizenship. It’s merely disqualifies rebels from holding any government office. It’s a a bill of attainder, which is why it needed to be included in an amendment to the constitution, or it would have been unconstitutional.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  362. You’re right, it did overrule Perez, an ill-considered decision that was less than 10 years old.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  363. Bullshite Milhouse! The Constitution is a delegation of limited and enumerated powers granted to the federal government by the consent of the governed. Don’t forget that the 9th & 10th Amendments reserving rights not enumerated to the people and the States!

    Amendment IX

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    Amendment X

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

    Do you need to be reminded that the United States is not a single entity, but is an entity that is composed of 50 Sovereign States!

    Yoda (feee21)

  364. this is par for the course, institutions that have held fast for hundreds even thousands of years, are delegitimated in a moment’s notice,

    narciso (732bc0)

  365. a great deal of it, had to do with inept lawyering on the part of the traditional forces, listen to the argument re Miranda, to see how they were outgunned, but today’s decisions are based on ephemeral reasonings,

    narciso (732bc0)

  366. The Civil War was an illegitimate and unconstitutional war that was only made “legal” by force of arms! If Sovereign States can voluntarily enter into an agreement to form a federal government via a constitution with the consent of the governed, then they can voluntarily dissolve that agreement with the withdrawing of the consent of the government. If not, then the Declaration of Independence, is a bunch of Bullsh!t, and not worth the paper it is written upon, which is the original founding document of this country!

    When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

    Yoda (feee21)

  367. that’s reading the story, backwards, master yoda, the Confederacy was about suppressing consent,

    narciso (732bc0)

  368. Actually, no it is not.

    Yoda (feee21)

  369. and jim crow, was the proof of it, had the Union not intervened, there would have been a shameful interval. that might not have lasted 75 years, but all too long,

    narciso (732bc0)

  370. The Civil War was the result of an unstable compound, the so-called federal republic of the United States of America of 1789, decomposing and then detonating. Like an explosion in a fertilizer factory. It just was not made to last. We’re operating in a different chemical mix now; in the by-products of that detonation and other decompositions, detonations, and chemical reactions that followed.

    nk (dbc370)

  371. this is par for the course, institutions that have held fast for hundreds even thousands of years, are delegitimated in a moment’s notice,

    What institutions that have held fast? Perez was a recent and bad decision. Afroyim put things back the way they’d always been, and the way the 14A’s language made explicit.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  372. the transformative decisions of the last five years

    narciso (732bc0)

  373. Oh, I thought you were still talking about Afroyim.

    Milhouse (87c499)

  374. 352. INA 328(f)​ and ​INA 329(c)​ are therefore void on their faces and not enforceable, unless they are interpreted as saying that the grants of naturalization in those sections are provisional, subject to not being dishonorably discharged.

    Milhouse (87c499) — 1/24/2016 @ 8:37 pm

    I take it you didn’t read them.

    Since Congress, not the courts, have the power to “set a uniform rule for naturalization,” these are a component of that uniform rule. To become a naturalized citizen, the applicant must “demonstrate good moral character, attachment to the principles of the Constitution, and a favorable disposition to the good order and happiness of the United States.”

    If you want to use the word provisional, fine. But they’re fully valid grants of citizenship until within a certain time limit a naturalized citizen demonstrates they didn’t actually possess those qualities. That’s why a person who is naturalized on the basis of honorable service in the US military would have to be separated under other than honorable conditions within five years of naturalization. They could get court martialed for murder they committed five years and a week after they were naturalized, get dishonorably discharged, and sent to Leavenworth and the government can’t do anything about their citizenship status. If they ever get out of prison, they’re still citizens.

    But within a certain amount of time, on a variety of grounds, if a naturalized citizen commits certain acts and the government can argue that the individual didn’t actually meet the conditions for naturalization and therefore they were improperly naturalized.

    But the government isn’t going to argue these people weren’t citizens. In the meantime these people have not doubt legally voted as citizens, and maybe legally acquired a passport as citizens. They have to argue that their citizenship needs to be revoked.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  375. And the constitution says it can’ be. If it was valid for one second, it’s permanent. The only way to say someone isn’t a citizen now is to say he never was one, that when we called him one we were mistaken. John Demjanjuk or Rasmea Odeh were never citizens, and every time they voted they committed fraud. Their purported naturalization ceremony was meaningless, exactly as it would be if the person who conducted it was an imposter, or if they had never actually attended one but merely forged a certificate that said they had.

    The clauses about servicemen getting revokable citizenships seems to me to be invalid on its face, but maybe some clever judge can rescue it by reading it as if it said the person isn’t really a citizen until five years have passed, and until then he only has the privileges of citizenship without being an actual citizen. Kind of like a decree nisi under the old-fashioned divorce laws. That might work. I wonder whether these two clauses have actually been enforced in the 48 years since Afroyim, and whether anyone has challenged them.

    Milhouse (87c499)


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