TIME “News” Article: Cruz’s “New York Values” Statement a “Smear”
Check out this headline:
If you read the article, you’ll see Chris Christie did not call Cruz’s statement a “smear.” The headline writer did. I guess it’s the official position of TIME Magazine that Cruz’s claim was a “smear.”
Good to know where they stand. (That’s rhetorical indignance, of course; we already knew.)
P.S. The best defense I have seen of Cruz’s “New York values” statement is here, by Alex Griswold, who notes that Andrew Cuomo had this to say about Cruz’s comment:
Are they these extreme conservatives who are right-to-life, pro-assault-weapon, anti-gay? Is that who they are? Because if that’s who they are and if they are the extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York, because that’s not who New Yorkers are.
As Griswold says:
So even after being told by the freaking Governor of New York himself that conservatives aren’t welcome, it’s somehow below the belt to say they have different values.
It’s a good point.
Ding.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:17 pmafter (by my count) 8 years of obama it’s not hard to think that maybe people are sorta not super eager to have another extremely divisive and polarizing person in the white house
so maybe people are looking at this and saying hey this is kind of a red flag
happyfeet (831175) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:21 pmIf DJT and the media are so freakin proud of NY Values, they wouldn’t call what Cruz said a smear at all. The fact they’re so butthurt by it tells me they know exactly what he meant and why. And their angst over it makes me laaaaaaaugh. 🙂
BK in BR (c5605e) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:22 pmWhen did news merge with science fiction and fantasy?
Jim (4f7e88) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:25 pmBK in BR is right. If someone said to me “you have Patterico values” I wouldn’t think I was “smeared” I’d take it as a complement. Now if they said I have NY values then them’s fightin’ words. So if they feel smeared then they know NY values ain’t good, and they’ve got’em.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:36 pmWhat could be more fun than witnessing the “Streisand Effect” work its magic?
Over the last few months, when Trump would say something outrageous, the whole barrel of monkies would feign outrage and then scratch their heads when Trump’s polling numbers went up. Do any of us really expect a decline in Cruz’ numbers with all this attention being lavished on him? Especially with the likes of Christie arguing out of one side of his mouth about how outrageous the Cruz attack is and out of the other side of his mouth that Cruz is the ultimate GOPe insider?
Bravo, Mr. Cruz!
ThOR (a52560) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:44 pmFor the longest time, Cruz has been falsely accused of being a bomb thrower.
Well, he’s thrown one now.
ThOR (a52560) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:46 pmIt is from former buzzard feeler zeke miller, so caveat emptor.
narciso (732bc0) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:46 pmThere’s two different lenses through which this kerfuffle must be viewed. They produce different conclusions for Sen. Cruz, but I don’t know which outweighs the other.
The “con” lens: As our host, Patrick, maintains, Cruz is running to be president of the United States, not just the Red States, and he runs a risk of looking petty and regional and divisive by singling out even those states most consistently hostile to conservatives and the GOP and, arguably, to “American values” as intuited in red and purple states. His remark isn’t going to affect how Sen. Cruz is perceived in Texas or New York; neither is in play. But the potential diminution in stature and “presidential-ness” may cost him votes at the margins in some of those purple states.
Note well: For magical politicians like Barack Obama, who sends flunkies to call the PM of Israel “chickensh*t” and chews gum at summit conferences, their supporters are oblivious to “presidential-ness.” This may also be true of Trump’s supporters, since he’s arguably even more tasteless, rude, and self-obsessed than Obama. But I don’t think Sen. Cruz is banking on that sort of magic, and he doesn’t want to give away votes at the margin in purple states.
The “pro” lens: Democrats and progressives are vulnerable to attacks made by comparing places where traditional political and economic values are maintained (e.g., deep-red states like Sen. Cruz’ own Texas) and places where they’ve been trashed — because that’s almost uniformly been done, and continues to be done, under Democratic/progressive political leaders. Like our host, Patrick, who lives in California and who, as a public servant, reports ultimately to political bosses whose politics and policies he frequently does not share, New York conservatives (some of whom don’t particularly identify as Republicans; and many GOP Republicans are not particularly conservative) won’t take offense at Sen. Cruz’ indictment: They recognize it, correctly, as being targeted at other New Yorkers than themselves.
So that puts conservative candidates like Sen. Cruz on a tightrope. I agree with Patrick that this was a false step, but I don’t think it’s likely to be very consequential.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:48 pmHas christie quit beating his wife yet?
mg (31009b) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:52 pmjust wondering
Or, cranking the focus on the microscope, and switching between those same two lenses: Pretend (try hard) that Martin O’Malley is a credible Democratic candidate. Anyone running against him is going to have to point to O’Malley’s sorry results as mayor of Baltimore as well as his sorry results as governor of Maryland; the former, as the running sore of the state, is a much more impressive set of bad results, but saying that bluntly is likely to offend Baltimorians and especially Baltimorian conservatives (both or all three of them).
So one must indeed be willing to walk the tightrope, or else one forfeits many of one’s most persuasive arguments that may pick up additional votes at the margins in those blue states in the general election.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:53 pmDouble standards, no standards, etc etc.
scrubone (c3104f) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:55 pmHe walked the tightrope every time he argued before the Supreme Court; he walked the tightrope against Dewhurst; he’s good at walking the tightrope.
And I admire him for it.
ThOR (a52560) — 1/18/2016 @ 12:57 pmTed Cruz-Please don’t submit to the elite.
mg (31009b) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:00 pmI would not be surprised if your poll numbers increase after your truth telling of N.Y. liberals.
I wish, in his post-debate spin on the “New York values” issue, that Sen. Cruz had pointed out that as recently as 1984, New York State’s electoral votes went to a Republican — Ronald Reagan — against a candidate who very much resembles either Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. I wish he’d pointed out that as recently as 2006, New York State had a GOP governor — George Pataki, with whom Cruz shared several GOP presidential debate stages just last fall. I wish that he’d pointed out that as recently as 2001 (ignoring Bloomberg’s faux-GOP credentials from 2002-2007), New York City had a GOP mayor — Rudy Guiliani, also a serious GOP presidential candidate in recent years. He ought to have mentioned specific New Yorkers by name as exceptions, and to have commended them for their fortitude in maintaining traditional American values even at times like the present when New York is wholly controlled by Democratic progressives who definitely don’t share those values.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:03 pm@ThOr: Yes, Cruz is very good on the tightrope.
And if he already did point out the factoids I mentioned above (#15) and I missed it, then mea culpa.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:05 pmI stand ready to be mocked for writing the phrase “as recently as 1984.” It just seems recent to me; yes, I’m getting old.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:07 pmI’m interested to know how many people out there are themselves bothered by what Cruz said.
As BK in BR says, etc., how many thinking people between Maine and San Diego, Fairbanks and Miami, don’t know what was meant?
I find it hard to believe many people will be bothered by this until they are told to be bothered by this,
and those people are prone to be bothered by who knows how many other things they are told to be bothered by.
I gave up worrying about what Time thinks 25+ years ago.
If Cruz wants to win the election, stand for what he wants to stand for and don’t apologize.
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:09 pmI’ve always found it interesting: Libs spend all day/every day denigrating Conservatives as racists and homophobes and xenophobes and etc.
But let a Conservative level a COMPARATIVELY mild charge against Libs – Romney’s observation about the 47 percent, or Cruz’s reference to New York Values – and the Libs go absolutely bananas.
Faux outrage, anyone? Or simply a case of people who doth protest too much?
Deuce Frehley (73c323) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:12 pmI guess when the “progressives” (formerly known as “liberals”) establish their unfitness for public office, then they will start anew under some other label like “futurists” or “samaritans” or sonething like that. Nice piece about it:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/429804/liberal-political-language-conservatives
Andrew (d1d310) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:13 pmthis election isn’t about NY values though it’s just not
Mr. Ted is misreading the politics
this election is about american values
and Mr. Trump has those
have you seen his hat?
whereas Mr. Cruz has this weird phony harvardtrash/trailer park melange of values not actually found in nature
my goodness a goldy sacky wife and nanny at home definitely represents some values
but they’re the values of the failmerican park avenue elite what got us into this mess
advantage: Mr. The Donald
happyfeet (831175) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:14 pmI don’t think people think of Ralph Cramden anymore when they think of a New Yorker,
they don’t even think of Rudi Giuliani,
they think of a city that elected De Blasio as mayor,
they think of a city where Anthony Weiner was a serious candidate for mayor as well.
Most of America that would vote for Cruz is not offended by what he said.
When a jihadist complains of “American Values”, I know what they mean, the America portrayed on TV by those in Hollywood and NYC, by our music award shows, what is advertised as cutting edge TV, etc.
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:19 pmI don’t like most of those values either, it’s not how I raised my children.
(no, that is in no way saying I give a jihadist a break for having legit beliefs, no, not at all.)
“New York Values” are not the values of the NYC PD,
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:22 pm“New York Values” are those of De Blasio, who the rank and file turned their backs to.
I think people in the media are trying to play this up so it will get traction, not because it was a mistake that has traction.
Hopefully, as someone else said,
it will work for Cruz the way criticism of Trump has worked for him.
But I may be wrong.
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:29 pmCanadians are usually not as nasty or evil as ted cruz.
nat (1324da) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:41 pmthat’s a very good point what nat makes
maybe given Ted’s reputation for being a very nasty person – however deserved or undeserved it might be – it’s just not smart for him to “go negative” – maybe he can’t “go negative” without reinforcing people’s perceptions of him as a nasty mean arrogant person
it’s like one of those throwing sticks the aboriginals in australia use to hunt the platypuses
happyfeet (831175) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:45 pmWow,
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:49 pmwe had documentation that President Obama had a racist mentor and domestic terrorist buddy,
along with no accomplishments other than being a Chicago rabble-rouser,
and in the public sphere it didn’t make any difference,
and Cruz gets it because some people over the net say that he’s a meany.
it’s so unfair
happyfeet (831175) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:50 pmMD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:29 pm
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:50 pmMy last comment. Time for self-control.
The louder the left and the media squeal, the closer Cruz is to the truth. The audience that pays for labeling Cruz’s value statement a “smear”, buys the rag because it reinforces their sense of righteousness and entitlement. Entitlement to power, to other people’s taxes, to special consideration for their feelings when regulatory agencies seize another person’s property, to the feeling of intellectual superiority as they align with the dogma these rags preach, and to the mask of victimization as a means of ignoring personal responsibility for virtually everything, from imagined verbal slights to policies of appeasement that inevitably lead to war.
The intellectual split between the left and conservatives of Cruz’s persuasion is as profound as the split between the Democrats who supported slavery before the Civil War and the newly founded Republicans who sought to constrain the extent and power of the slave states. There is no middle ground. Just the idea of Charter Schools, which are publicly controlled entities freed from the institutional mechanisms that ensure teacher benefits at the expense of students, are intolerable to the left. No quarter is given or asked in this debate over the future of all our children, despite the obvious hypocrisy of well-to-do Democrats sending their children to private schools.
There’s no point in aiming to persuade lefties of the value of our arguments. They instinctively recognize the weakness of their intellectual foundation, hence their venom directed at Cruz. But they are emotionally invested in the concept of an all-knowing beneficent State that will take care of them and provide them with power over others. They will not change. If the decent people moved out of New York City it would collapse in a day, but the number of voters for Democrats wouldn’t decline an iota. Witness Detroit. So Cruz’s message simply states the obvious. We’d be better of if more people voted with their feet.
And the Electoral College doesn’t give a wit about the massive margins Democrats have bought and paid for in the blue states.
BobStewartatHome (a52abe) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:53 pmCanadians are usually not as nasty or evil as ted cruz.
nat (1324da) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:41 pm
nate… I see you’ve lost a letter and a few more of your ever-dwindling supply of brain cells.
Colonel Haiku (aacf41) — 1/18/2016 @ 2:18 pmwriting the phrase “as recently as 1984.” It just seems recent to me; yes, I’m getting old.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/18/2016 @ 1:07 pm
“They’ll split your pretty cranium and fill it full of air
Colonel Haiku (aacf41) — 1/18/2016 @ 2:23 pmAnd tell you that you’re 80, but brother you won’t care”
“if you’re explaining you’re losing”
happyfeet (831175) — 1/18/2016 @ 2:25 pm“Never apologize, never explain.”
– Hunter S. Thompson
Leviticus (efada1) — 1/18/2016 @ 2:34 pmsorry – yes yes i meant to use that quote instead of the one at 33
happyfeet (831175) — 1/18/2016 @ 2:36 pmI see that the RNC has fired NBC from the debates. The Feb 28th Houston debate will be televised by some other network.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/18/2016 @ 3:05 pmplus there’s gonna be more black people at the republican debate than at the oscars
happyfeet (831175) — 1/18/2016 @ 3:13 pm“plus there’s gonna be more black people at the republican debate than at the oscars” – happyfeet
LOL
ThOR (a52560) — 1/18/2016 @ 3:32 pmapplause, happy feet
mg (31009b) — 1/18/2016 @ 3:55 pmhappyfeet
mg (31009b) — 1/18/2016 @ 4:00 pmI have a hard time believing people don’t understand that Cruz was referring the liberal nanny-state politics of New York, rather than the resilience and courage displayed after September 11. Trump’s 9/11 defense was the same kind of six-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon sophistry that some liberals use to say that calling Obama “childish” is like calling him “boy”, which is a racial slur. Anyone who gives the line from Cruz a moment’s thought understands what he was saying. And the people in New York or other cities, those who are conservative or moderate and MIGHT vote for Cruz, understand this. I’m a “conservatarian” living in Austin, TX. If some conservative pol sneered at “Austin values”, I wouldn’t be offended one bit, because I would know he wasn’t referencing me. The only ones who WOULD be offended would be those who share the leftist politics that dominate the city.
Trump executed a nimble bit of verbal judo that helped him the night of the debate, but the more the “New York values” quote is mentioned, the more scrutiny it receives, the more it will become clear that Cruz was calling Trump a liberal.
cnh (1eae6e) — 1/18/2016 @ 4:27 pmIf some conservative pol sneered at “Austin values”, I wouldn’t be offended one bit, because I would know he wasn’t referencing me. The only ones who WOULD be offended would be those who share the leftist politics that dominate the city.
Exactly, except I emphasized Madison (WI) values.
MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 4:58 pmI knew a guy like that back in the 80’s. His wife blew his face off with a shotgun.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/18/2016 @ 5:34 pmI heard a caller on Diane Rehm’s NPR radio program assert that Cruz’ reference to “New York values” was code — that what he was really meant was “New York Jews.” One of Rehm’s guest panelists, a woman whose name I didn’t catch but who I believe was identified as some sort of editor from Politico.com, instantly and enthusiastically agreed; no one pointed out that this is a wild fantasy with no direct or indirect factual support, of course.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/18/2016 @ 6:26 pmWe are ill-served by what passes for media, Beldar. It verges on criminal neglect.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/18/2016 @ 6:35 pm34.“Never apologize, never explain.”
I knew a guy like that back in the 80’s. His wife blew his face off with a shotgun.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/18/2016 @ 5:34 pm
In an amazing coinkydink, the fellow who that quote is attributed to blew his own head off several years ago…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/18/2016 @ 6:37 pm“I won’t be wronged. I won’t be insulted. I won’t be laid a-hand on. I don’t do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.”
“Never apologize, mister, it’s a sign of weakness.”
John "Duke" Wayne (feee21) — 1/18/2016 @ 6:38 pm“Never apologize and never explain–it’s a sign of weakness.”
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon
John "Duke" Wayne (feee21) — 1/18/2016 @ 6:40 pmThompson came to speak at UCSB back in the mid ’70s. He was late, sullen, arrogant, and uninformative. A complete waste of time and ticket money.
ropelight (9e7c9d) — 1/18/2016 @ 6:59 pm… no one pointed out that this is a wild fantasy with no direct or indirect factual support, of course.
Well except for the fact that people do sometimes use “New York” as code words for “Jewish”. I doubt Cruz was doing this but this is just another reason he might better have chosen different words.
James B. Shearer (0f56fb) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:06 pmI believe not being man enough to apologize when one needs to is the real sign of weakness. If one is wrong or if one has wronged another an apology and an explanation are required. Failure to do so could end up with the crap being beat out of you. At the least. Or that shotgun at the most.
I also don’t believe in building ones life philosophy from a Hollywood movie be it She Wore A Yellow Ribbon or Beetlejuice. I noticed in NCIS Gibbs has used that line like it was God’s Word. It’s not. God’s Word is quite the opposite.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:11 pmThe Jewish angle must be the son-of-journalist message, I heard that Geraldo claimed that too.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:15 pmPro-Israel and pro-Jewish are not the same thing, I know,
But you know for sure Cruz is more pro-Israel than most Dems.
I doubt Cruz was doing this but this is just another reason he might better have chosen different words.
I’ve seen a lot of Trump supporters loudly doubting this.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:16 pmMy first wife was Jewish and I a around Jews all the time and I have never hear that “New York” was a code word for Jewish. Liberal, leftist, crazy, stupid, nasty, inconsiderate, uncaring and dirty, but not Jewish.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:16 pmDoes this mean that bashing Texas is code for being anti-Christian?
Kevin M (25bbee) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:17 pmSmile when you say that, Hoagie.
nk (dbc370) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:20 pmMD in Philly, these days Cruz is more pro-Israel than most Jews.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:52 pmKevin M, the leftists are masters of the arts of projection and deflection. They have to be since all their beliefs are unicorn farts. So if you bash NY values, it’s Jew bashing. Bash Los Angeles and you’re a homophobe. Bash Detroit and you’re a racist. See how it goes? One can’t be against the crap leftist policies of these places cause.. unicorn farts so one must be some sort of bigot.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 1/18/2016 @ 7:59 pmNPR’s left wingers intuit anti-Semitism by conservatives when there isn’t any, yet when Iran’s Mullahs promise to wipe Israel off the map—or publicly characterize Jews as the offspring of monkeys and pigs—those same NPR left wingers continue about their day as if the Mullahs had simply given the weather forecast.
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/18/2016 @ 8:03 pmTed Cruz is a neocon who loves Israel too much, and also hates him some Jews.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 1/18/2016 @ 8:25 pm30. Pretty good aim ya got there, Bob.
DNF (755a85) — 1/18/2016 @ 8:31 pm34. Words to live by. Excepting with the ladies.
DNF (755a85) — 1/18/2016 @ 8:34 pmI think Abraham Lincoln was the first president born outside the original 13 states.
Notify Donald Trump!
Alert Laurence Tribe!
Dig up Stephen Douglas and swear him into office immediately.
Tribe has now stopped saying that Cruz had to have been born in the United States (he previously wrote in the Boston Globe “the legal principles that prevailed in the 1780s and ’90s required that someone actually be born on US soil to be a ‘natural born’ citizen”). Instead, Tribe is now saying that Cruz’s U.S.-citizen parent had the wrong gender:
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/natural-born-issue-ted-cruz-not-settled-not-going-away-n499226
Andrew Hyman (b12b60) — 1/18/2016 @ 8:53 pmBeldar, I always appreciate your commentary. You and I see eye to eye on Donald Trump, and I think we mostly see eye to eye on Ted Cruz.
I’m glad you agree this was a false step. I hope you’re right that it won’t matter much, and I think there is some evidence to back up that rosy view.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 1/18/2016 @ 9:08 pmLaurence Tribe was born in Shanghai. Or as Trump would say, China, China, China, China, China, China, China, China, China, China, China, China, China, China. China. Who is he to say what makes a natural born American?
nk (dbc370) — 1/18/2016 @ 9:25 pmTrump is a transformational candidate. Not only has he flung open Overton Windows that had seemed nailed securely shut, he has also smashed right through the decorum window, refusing to apologize, back down, or even conceded an error when he breached long-standing pieties. Of all the changes Trump has brought, I believe it is the latter that is most important because it buttresses freedom of debate across the entire spectrum of issues. Self-censorship on the right is now over. Finally, we can speak our minds.
It’s a new world and, with the “New York values” attack, Cruz has bolted through the shattered opening right on Trump’s coattails. What’s to worry?
Politics will be view in terms of before and after Trump – and I don’t even like the man.
ThOR (a52560) — 1/18/2016 @ 9:32 pmThe point about Trump is not that he’s from New York per se. The point to be made is that his values, of whatever sources and origins, are wrong. He does not, for example, value keeping his word, and instead he brags about re-trading deals whenever it suits him. In the next breath, he’ll say he wouldn’t repudiate, on Day 1, Obama’s Iran deal, on the theory that somehow Obama has the power to bind his successor (without any input from either of the other two branches of government).
There’s a separate point to be made about how bad values are resulting in bad governance in blue states and cities, to the detriment of those blue-state voters who keep electing Democrats no matter what. But that’s a general election point.
Beldar (fa637a) — 1/19/2016 @ 12:45 amtrump is a pooper!
but he’s way better than obama or hillary and nobody likes Mr. Senator Ted Cruz, not if they really know him
advantage: Mr. The Donald
happyfeet (831175) — 1/19/2016 @ 4:27 amCruz is such an unlikable person, I don’t understand why so many people like him.
nauline kael (dbc370) — 1/19/2016 @ 4:36 ampheremones!
happyfeet (831175) — 1/19/2016 @ 4:40 amI see that Cruz’s campaign manager has now told Chris Matthews “I love New York”. Hopefully this whole thing will blow over. If not, then there are a lot of ex-New Yorkers living in Florida who would go out of their way to show that the love is not reciprocal.
Andrew (53e038) — 1/19/2016 @ 5:28 am“Ex-New Yorkers living in Florida” vote for Alan Grayson and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, not Republicans. With hanging chads.
nk (dbc370) — 1/19/2016 @ 5:48 amand they want nothing to do with intelligent people like Col. West.
mg (31009b) — 1/19/2016 @ 7:00 amThey often stay home unless they’re motivated to go to the polls by an intense dislike of the Republican opponent.
“‘If a Democrat does not have a robust turnout in southeast Florida in the Jewish community, and if they’re not carrying about 70 percent, there’s no way a Democrat is going to win statewide,’ said Robert Watson, a political scientist at Lynn University in Boca Raton and co-editor of the book, ‘Israel and the Legacy of Harry S. Truman.'”
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-10-16/news/fl-jewish-voters-florida-20121015_1_south-florida-jewish-voters-obama-or-romney-obama-romney-contest
Anyway, I’ll now do my bit to help this “New York values” thing to disappear, by saying no more about it. 🙂
Andrew (b12b60) — 1/19/2016 @ 7:45 am