Court Demands Catholic School Hire Married Gay Man
[guest post by JVW]
David French over at National Review Online has all the details.
As someone who supports same-sex civil marriage but fears that religious institutions are going to be browbeaten into compliance, I have two thoughts about this:
(1) Perhaps religious institutions are going to have to retrench and stop interacting with people from outside their faith. Catholic high schools, for example, would have to suddenly announce that they are letting go all non-Catholic teachers and staff, and will no longer accept students from non-Catholic families. This would place a burden on them to find enough students to fill up their classes, and some Catholic schools would no doubt close with the public schools systems likely being forced to pick up the slack. This would also undermine the Catholic Church’s belief in diversity and in ministering to people outside the faith, but perhaps there is no other way. This is not a desirable situation in any regard, but it may be the only way for an institution to protect themselves from this type of state bullying.
(2) This ruling was issued by a state court, so it likely will start to wind its way through the appellate process. Can we just short-circuit all that and ask Justice Anthony Kennedy for his ruling already?
– JVW
Muslims don’t seem to run private schools where non-Muslims are welcome, nor in this country do they have universities or hospitals or banquet halls open to the public. I guess they have sussed that outreach to the non-believers inevitably leads to knuckling under to the current fads and fashions of the progressive elite.
JVW (30a532) — 12/18/2015 @ 3:26 pmTwo things,
This is in Massachusetts, the first state to mandate that a 17 to biological male needs to be allowed to join the girls basketball team and use the same locker room,
So whatever the state does is no longer a surprise.
Second, perhaps it is not so much that an Islamic school doesn’t want non-Muslims, as no one who isn’t Muslim would want to go.
Just as well for the church to realize where they stand sooner than later,
But sad for all of those families trying to escape the public school system.
If elected, I would make an executive order that any federal elected official that votes against school choice must send their children to the local public school,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/18/2015 @ 4:18 pmI will have a phone and a pen, and if they don’t like it they can impeach me,
And lose their next election when I campaign against them.
A same sex teacher, not sure if married, was fired from a scoop north of Philly,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/18/2015 @ 4:26 pmThe local highest official (bishop?, archbishop?) was very unapologetic about it.
worst red cup season post ever
happyfeet (831175) — 12/18/2015 @ 4:30 pmit’s beautiful sight happy tonight
christmas cookies
happyfeet (831175) — 12/18/2015 @ 4:38 pmSan Francisco is a Johnny-come-lately to the gay scene. Massachusetts had Boston Marriages when Oscar Wilde was being sent to prison for “the love that dare not speak its name”.
nk (dbc370) — 12/18/2015 @ 4:55 pmThe Constitution should not be used as a bludgeon to suppress citizens’ constitutional rights. The only “antidiscrimination” mandate should be upon government actions.
David (099e1f) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:04 pmSaw something posted elsewhere recently to the effect that “They used to call it ‘the love that dare not speak its name’ but now you can’t get it to shut up.”
David (099e1f) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:06 pmIf the cafeteria does not hire gays, how else will those Catholic girls get chlamydia? You have to look at the big picture.
nk (dbc370) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:14 pmclammydiddleya is not the True Meaning Of Christmas charlie brown
snoopy dog pls to explain
happyfeet (831175) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:18 pmThere is a line of rulings that churches have utter control over their religious personnel, but operations outside their ministry are subject to state regulation.
It really isn’t an issue of whether they serve non-Catholics — you do not have to be Catholic to attend Mass, only to receive Communion — but whether their schools are part of their ministry, or are instead a secular endeavor.
And the answer may be mixed. They may have to hire a gay food service manager (so long as he does not attempt to proselytize), but perhaps not a gay Catechism instructor, even if the latter is not ordained.
I think the ruling will be upheld at every level.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:19 pmTougher question: Suppose this guy was an algebra teacher.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:22 pmhow do you solve a problem like a gay food service manager
how do you hold the moonbeans in your hand
happyfeet (831175) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:23 pmIt amuses me that no matter how bad America gets these idiots find new ways to make it worse. And remarkably they seem to find a new and clever way every week.
It’s odd that the phony “separation of church and state” disappears when the state wants to dictate to the church isn’t it? So why doesn’t the church say NO?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:36 pmi remember when people thought heavily-bearded cheesedoodle slut boy paul ryan was fiscally responsible
i remember with my own memories
light the corner of my mind
misty water coloured MEMreeeeees
christmas cookies b!thces
happyfeet (831175) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:36 pmI see your point Kevin, and as a non-lawyer I would say it sounds like what lawyers will make of it,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:41 pmBut teaching by example is powerful, and requiring the school to violate their religious beliefs in the running of the school is antithetical to freedom of association and religion,
Of course that doesn’t mean it won’t happen.
even Meghan’s coward daddy voted against heavily-bearded cheesedoodle slut boy paul ryan’s whorebudget
and it slopped the hell out of the pentagon piggy pigs
what does that tell you
happyfeet (831175) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:59 pmlinker
happyfeet (831175) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:59 pmwell personnel is policy, they know what exactly what they are doing.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/18/2015 @ 6:28 pmDemocrats are all gay communists something the american ppl are starting to see.
also the progressives/dems/left are terrified of Trump.
a good sign he should be the nominee. tho I have nothing against Cruz, even better would be a trump/cruz run.
when the dems are terrified of something it almost always means
what they are terrified of will be the best for america (american prosperity, and the USA economy)
because they hate the USA …in just about every factor of life and area that exists.
and now for a fun lil preview of a game.
YourMaster (c7e392) — 12/18/2015 @ 6:32 pmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0qHZG1-rEg
YourMaster (c7e392) — 12/18/2015 @ 6:32 pm
Hillary is praying she can run against Trump.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 12/18/2015 @ 6:39 pmlet’s not forget that catholics are the new commies
it’s sooooo awkward
happyfeet (831175) — 12/18/2015 @ 6:54 pmpatrick is the gift that keeps on giving, like poison sumac,
http://masslawyersweekly.com/judicial-profiles/wilkins-douglas-h/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/18/2015 @ 6:55 pmSo much for the separation between church and state. It always was a fiction, then it became farce, now it’s tragedy.
You do realize, do you not JVW, that it is the Left that is tyrannizing the definition of what it means to be a religious institution?
This court has no doubt been emboldened by the fact the Obama administration has arrogated unto itself the right and the authority to redefine what it means to be a religious institution. So, for instance, the Catholic church no longer has the authority to decide for itself what its own mission on earth is. It is subject instead to the dictates of these foul Marxists.
Who the hell gave these people that right?
Catholic religious orders have always interpreted it to be their duty to God to minister to people who are not Catholic. Think Mother Theresa and her Missionaries of Charity providing hospice care to the destitute of Calcutta. Do you realize how precious few destitute Catholics, or even Christians in general, you’ll find in the slums of Calcutta? The majority of the people she and the order she founded cared for were Hindu and Muslim. But God commanded her to minister to the poor and not merely the already Catholic.
Retrench? Are you serious, JVW? since when have the religious been so “entrenched” to begin with. Christian theology, at least, has required its adherents to be outward looking. And along comes Barack Obama and he decrees that, no, no, the religious have been doing it wrong. He overrules God and demands that to be considered a religious order these people must become inward looking. They must view themselves as he views them; a social club, that caters only to their own members.
Again, are you serious, JVW? Where in the Constitution does the tyrannical left divine the power to redefine what it means to be a religious institution?
Sorry, JVW, I hope you don’t take offense. But our Constitution gives this government no more power to do this than it does, say, to violate the Fifth Amendment in order to grant the government the power to violate the Second Amendment simply because Prom Queen can come up with an arbitrary list of people “too dangerous” to buy guns.
This is a wholesale slaughter of the Constitution. It isn’t like the religious were bringing the “Good News” to people not of their faith because Leviathan said it was OK. And it isn’t like they’ll stop because some overreaching court or administration arrogates unto itself the power to assume the role of supreme being.
And anyone who cackles mindlessly about “separation between church and state” whenever they see a Nativity Scene in a municipal park needs to do us all a favor and go shoot themselves in the head if they don’t see the obvious violation of “separation between church and state” if they approve of the state telling the church who they have to hire.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/18/2015 @ 7:15 pmexactly it subverts Jesus’s mandate ‘to go out into the world’ this is why I find Rod Dreher’s musings on the subject, particularly daft,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/18/2015 @ 7:18 pmChristians can understand the way the minds of unbelievers work,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/18/2015 @ 7:31 pmUnbelievers cannot understand the things of the Spirit.
That simple.
The number of people who think themselves wise who are fools grows large,
And with the internet their opinions abound.
Well, Steve57 seems we agree on my first sentence so can we answer the second? If the church says NO, just like a mosque would and went on the news and called all faithful Catholics to march on the court and demand the firing of the judge the church would win. No politician wants the church telling every Catholic they can’t vote for him. Just call a news conference with a cardinal and say the government is oppressing the church and we won’t abide.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/18/2015 @ 7:42 pmMy ears are burning.
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/18/2015 @ 7:47 pmSteve57,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/18/2015 @ 8:03 pmI wasn’t talking about you, not at all.
it is striking how we have insight into why they do what they do, yet they do not, that maybe that they operate in a bubble the size of a dyson sphere, yet we have no choice but to see what
narciso (732bc0) — 12/18/2015 @ 8:05 pmthey do,
This certainly muddies the waters:
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breaking-catholic-relief-services-slams-critics-of-gay-married-vp-as-he-res
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/18/2015 @ 8:11 pmSee also:
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1072154.html
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/18/2015 @ 8:17 pmO/T:
http://www.accfcb.org/safyre-terry/
The first few letters of ACCFCB stand for Albany County Correctional Facility. They are, according to the website, a group of correctional officers and volunteers who who work with children who are seriously disable or injured such as:
From what I read it was arson. Also from what I read, her father died saving her life. But he couldn’t save her entirely from the flames.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/19/nyregion/safyre-terry-has-430000-christmas-cards-but-arson-case-drags-on.html?_r=0
Sa’fyre Terry has 430,000 cards. And that’s all she wants for Christmas. I’ll be sending two as part of my miserable contribution. I’m such a rotten person I have only one friend to ghost write a Christmas card, and I had to bribe even her.
Here’s the address, should anyone be interested.
Safyre
Steve57 (50e6a1) — 12/18/2015 @ 9:28 pmP.O. Box 6126
Schenectady, NY 12306
USA
I’d like to see the judge who makes this type of ruling placed into a room with a bunch of Islamofascists.
Is it unkind of me to hope that both sides annihilate one another?
Mark (f713e4) — 12/18/2015 @ 9:29 pmWhat if I apply to be a NUN???? This feces has gone beyond absurd. The LIBT@ARD mask has come off, and the GOP is in need of CIALIS.
Gus (7cc192) — 12/18/2015 @ 10:36 pmFirst Amendment………”free exercise thereof”. …….down the memory hole/wayback machine.
Gus (7cc192) — 12/18/2015 @ 10:38 pmSoon the court will mandate that one’s sexuality must be gender neutral. Gotta scuk his cock ladies and gentlemen lest you violate the Tranny’s Right to be fellated.
.
.
.
The Courts are mentally ill. Our Legal System is too. Lawyers are a big problem.
.
.
.
So …. wanna know why Trump is winning? American is screaming out for a Dictator to eradicate these vile animals. A return to sanity b/c lord knows our Legal System is not protecting us.
This is why many don’t care about all the BS about legal or constitutional. How can people be concerned about a Constitution when both the POTUS and SCOTUS ignore it or reinterpret at a whim? The document is worthless.
Rodney King's Spirit (2b29eb) — 12/19/2015 @ 5:42 amTrump is the most gay-friendly of all the candidates, Republican and Democrat. Or have you forgotten his beauty contest, where his militant gay judge, Perez Hilton, took the Miss Plastic Tits title away from the leading contestant because she said marriage is between a man and a woman?
nk (dbc370) — 12/19/2015 @ 5:52 amA Cincinnatus comes along once only so many thousands of years, could be we’re overdue.
Another “Great Awakening” that is even greater is what is needed.
I have read the claim that it was the Wesley’s that indirectly prevented a revolution in England.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/19/2015 @ 5:52 amAmerican is screaming out for a Dictator to eradicate these vile animals.
Sieg Heil, y’all.
nk (dbc370) — 12/19/2015 @ 5:54 amwe needs a lil christmas right this very minits cause we got a fascist speaker and whorebudgets without limits
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 6:34 amI think it is said that if a people is not capable of self rule then they will be ruled by a tyrant.
It seems to me the idea of governance by the will of the people isn’t doing so well,
so the question is what kind of tyrant will we get, and will we have any say in the matter.
I saw some info somewhere that actually the highest percentage of Trump supporters are self-identified independents, that self-identified repubs are way less than 50%.
Sorry, don’t remember where or how reliable that was.
I think it is the media that wants to play “those Repubs want Trump” to paint repubs bad.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/19/2015 @ 6:35 amMD, it’s all memewarfare. Repeat the slogans and insults over and over and over again.
I don’t have a solution.
Simon Jester (890ea2) — 12/19/2015 @ 6:41 amhere’s some propaganda from the associated press about boy ryan’s greasy whorebudget what even Meghan’s coward pentagon piggy sloppin daddy couldn’t vote for
wowsers
associated press propaganda sluts aren’t even a lil curious about what happens to debt-bloated whorestates when interest rates rise
cause they do not want you to be
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 6:44 amI think it is the media that wants to play “those Repubs want Trump” to paint repubs bad.
Mr. Dr. there’s no small number of democrats what are head over heels in love with Mr. The Donald
failmerica’s propaganda sluts like the tapper and the bash
they’re tap dancing around like dicker van dyker to avoid telling *that* store
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 6:47 am*story* i mean
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 6:48 amhere’s where you can get an answer to the question about what happens to atlantic hurricane frequency and intensity during el ninos
spoiler: atlantic hurricanes are less frequent and less intense during el nino years
here’s an unsettling picture of a lexus in our nation’s capital what was damaged by Hurricane Irene
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 7:14 amI disagree that Americans are screaming for a dictator. I believe we are screaming to return to a Constitutional Republic not a nation governed by a “living document”, a pen and a phone or and interpretation of plain English so outlandish it’s not reality based. The problem with the law is the lawyers. They spend their entire careers trying to out maneuver each other to “win” and the result is no normal person can depend that the law will mean tomorrow what it meant yesterday and today. Plus the hypocrisy of lawyers and judges is legion. Either religion is or is not involved in government. If not then the government should be told to butt-out of any organization religious based. Including hospitals, charities, schools, colleges and the Little Sisters of the Poor. The Constitution plainly states: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof“. The lawyers, courts and legislatures seem to forget that last part. It means yes, a person can pray in school or anywhere he wants. Yet there is nothing I’ve ever seen stating a right to an abortion or freedom of choice or of privacy. That does not mean these are not implied but when the First Amendment specifically states something which is ignored don’t tell me about something that’s “implied”.
I can start by saying : I’m no lawyer….but. Seems to me lawyers have done a marvelous job of phuking up the law. For example, why is being a county building inspector who owns the largest construction company in the county a “conflict of interest” but being a lawyer serving in the legislature isn’t? The legislature makes the laws that lawyers make money off of so lawyers should be banned from feathering their own nests. The lawyers in the legislature pass laws for their friends and themselves to cash in on. We see it everywhere. Especially labor, EEOC, OSHA and other business related bull crap they call the “public good”.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/19/2015 @ 7:14 amAssociated Press propaganda slut “Christopher S. Rugaber” fap fap fapping about the deliciousness of boy ryan’s whorebudget
vs. journalism
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 8:09 amKevin M (25bbee) — 12/18/2015 @ 5:19 pm
I disagree, mainly because I have not given up hope that our Government may yet turn away from evil.
You may recall that, for the present, Catholic and other religious schools do not have to participate in obamacare (pay into the abortion superfund, that is) precisely because they hire and teach predominately Catholic people. Once the state begins to force these schools to hire “outsiders” then you can kiss that religious autonomy goodbye. This is where the battle will be fought.
Credit to George David Byers
felipe (56556d) — 12/19/2015 @ 8:09 amSorry felipe and George but if you wait for that you may win that battle but you’ll lose the war. The battles are fought one at a time, each and every time the government encroaches on the church. That’s why they don’t bother the moslems.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/19/2015 @ 8:37 amThis is curable through the legislative process. Either by amending the state’s anti-discrimination law or strengthening its religious freedom law. That’s how Hobby Lobby won, through the RFRA, not the First Amendment.
The Catholic Church in Massachusetts is very strong, both in the grass roots and in the establishment. (Or The Establishment.) It can bring a lot of pressure on the legislature. If it’s a battle the Cardinal wants to fight.
nk (dbc370) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:11 amThey will construct a congruence for selective inclusion (e.g. transgender/homosexual or crossover) and exclusion (e.g. elective abortion, politically incorrect orientations) under the quasi-religious pro-choice doctrine favored by liberal societies.
n.n (07b8f4) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:17 amThey will construct a congruence for selective inclusion (e.g. transgender/homosexual or crossover) and exclusion (e.g. elective abor.tion, politically incorrect orientations) under the quasi-religious pro-cho.ice doctrine favored by liberal societies.
n.n (07b8f4) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:18 amA Cincinnatus comes along once only so many thousands of years, could be we’re overdue.
Either that or someone into Mohamed’s Islamism and Sharia-ism, as is occurring in parts of Europe, and perhaps coming to a (American) theater near you.
I admit that when I see all the idiotic people of the left helping nurture these trends on both sides of the Atlantic, and all the squish-squishes who are a big reason that What’s-His-Name’s (at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave) opinion poll ratings aren’t as bad as his predecessor’s was (even though they certainly should have hit the low 30’s well before today), I do snicker and think “you broke it, now you fit it.”
Mark (f713e4) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:20 amI disagree that Americans are screaming for a dictator. I believe we are screaming to return to a Constitutional Republic not a nation governed by a “living document”, a pen and a phone or and interpretation of plain English so outlandish it’s not reality based. The problem with the law is the lawyers. They spend their entire careers trying to out maneuver each other to “win” and the result is no normal person can depend that the law will mean tomorrow what it meant yesterday and today.
Rev.,
It may be a matter of perspective, which is why I brought up Cincinnatus.
Some would say it will take essentially a dictator to restore the Constitutional Republic.
The elected class shows no interest in doing it,
the public doesn’t have enough alert, educated, involved people who seem to make a difference.
Catholic Church in Massachusetts is very strong
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:25 amPerhaps we’ll see how much Kennedy and how much Catholic are in Kennedy Catholics .
A light-hearted moment in honor of one of our contributors.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:28 amhttp://i0.wp.com/www.powerlineblog.com/ed-assets/2015/12/Yoda-Planned.png
Excellent, MD.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:42 amRev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/19/2015 @ 8:37 am
Yes sir, I agree. We should not wait.
felipe (56556d) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:57 amMD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:25 am
Well said, MD.
felipe (56556d) — 12/19/2015 @ 9:59 amIn charge of planning Yoda was NOT! Darth Lucas, the decision made!
😆
Yoda (feee21) — 12/19/2015 @ 10:03 amJust for comparison, I know someone who lost her job teaching in a Catholic school last June because she was planning to marry a divorced man in the fall. I’m pretty sure if she had waited until the new school year to tell them of her engagement, they would have fired her after school started, despite the much greater inconvenience to both parties of having to change teachers mid-year. So it’s not just gays who are fired for failing to uphold Catholic teachings in their lives, but those who are divorce and remarried or married to same.
Dr. Weevil (dafff2) — 12/19/2015 @ 11:16 amEven public-school contracts specify that teachers can be fired for moral turpitude, whatever exactly that comprises. Wasn’t there a case where a teacher was fired when students found porn videos on-line starring her?
Today moral turpitude is constituted by being a practicing Christian, Hassidic Jew, anti abortion, pro gun or any straight person.
I hoped you learned something.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/19/2015 @ 11:33 amThis is about politics, about aggression, not compassion or equality. I don’t think private behavior should be a bar to a job, but let’s say that an applicant held a second job at a legal pot dispensary. The school turns him down, and he sues. Would he win? If he applied at a Muslim school and was turned down and he sued, would he win?
And if no one has sued Muslim bakeries or Muslim schools yet, why not?
I don’t mean to denigrate married gay people, like our commenter here, but a movement is different from an individual, and I suspect these types of legal actions are carefully selected for a purpose: the left’s hatred of Christianity. It’s a point of resistance to the Leviathan and must be crushed so that the new world can appear.
Patricia (5fc097) — 12/19/2015 @ 11:57 amHelp me understand
Gay catholic priest pedophile scandal
Gay catholic school teacher – okay
Cant win for losing
joe (debac0) — 12/19/2015 @ 12:25 pmthis isn’t about a teacher it’s the guy what runs the kitchen for so the boys and girls can have tasty lunchings
they hired him and he quit his job and then they fired him cause of they found out he was married to a guy
they did this cause of Jesus
they’re emotionally stunted ree-ree momos if you ask me
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 12:41 pmprobably communists also or at least have flagrant sympathies
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 12:41 pmcatholic priests and 80s british pop stars share almost the same exact exceedingly puerile anti-capitalist pro-socialism values it’s SO weird
miss me
i know you miss me
i know you miss me buhLIIIIIIND
happyfeet (831175) — 12/19/2015 @ 1:11 pmThe acrid smell of sulphur hangs in the air, magma in the Yellowstone depths burgeons and what is going to avert Wrath? A few hoping the good hope for an awakening?
Remember not to turn to approvingly witness the coming judgement, keep your head down and flee.
DNF (755a85) — 12/20/2015 @ 10:32 am