GOP Debate Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
I’ve been listening to the undercard debate for about 45 minutes now, and the discussion has primarily focused on terrorism, foreign policy, and national security. The big question is whether it’s time to put American boots on the ground to fight and defeat ISIS.
The top-tier debate coverage starts at 8:30 p.m. ET on CNN. I think you can also go here to watch it online.
–Dana
UPDATE BY PATTERICO: Ben Carson seems to be fading fast. The folks to watch are Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio. Of course, there will be the usual other chumps, including but not limited to Jeb Bush, Carly Fiorina, Chris Christie, the ever-annoying John Kasich, and (barely making the cut) Rand Paul.
*winks at Dana*
CNN will probably try to make people fight again. The fools will fall for it. The wise will not.
Should be a good debate. I think it was Graham who repeatedly hit Cruz and Rand as “isolationists”.
Candidates at the earlier debate are all in for sending troops to the ME. Some disagreement about whether just Iraq, or Iraq and Syria…
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 4:40 pmFunny, Hillary (or Funny Hillary!) gave a speech today before the undercard debate, and instructed the GOP:
She then said that the GOP candidates should explain their insistence at supporting current gun laws.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 4:55 pmHow does she intend to prevent terrorists from getting guns? Maybe we need French gun control.
Any GOP candidate who supports gun rights should be able to crush that argument.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:00 pmI expect Kasich to agree with the gun grabbers. Christie wants to, but he knows better.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:05 pmWe could use some more “isolationism” — if the opposite of isolationism is “killing a bunch of innocent people (as well as guilty ones) to destabilize a region.”
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:15 pmTheir opening credits show Chump again and again.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:40 pmlong term military expeditions have been rare in the American experience, there was Phillipines, which was successful, and Haiti, which was not,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:44 pmCruz reaches inside his suit to put his hand on his heart.
That should be good for three hot-take think pieces tomorrow.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:46 pmOh my gosh, Dana Bash annoys me SO much.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:47 pmDr. Ben Carson’s a fruit loop but everyone else needs to start focusing on pinning down Mr. The Donald to where he’s committed to more conservative policies
that would be doing a service to America and I would say thank you very much you guys
not sure i’m up for a debate with so many squidgets in it though
happyfeet (831175) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:48 pmThose below the knee skirts will make any woman’s legs look stubby. I noticed that when my daughter had to wear one to visit a Catholic school and she is a slender, leggy girl. Above the knee, ladies, trust me. (Not some gay fashion designer).
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:48 pmNk,
I think she struck just the right note: she’s not an ingenue, length is conservative. She’s serious in red, but her suit has a nice balance of femininity and professionalism. I think she tried to soften up the look.. She took her cue from not enough smiling comments, etc.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:51 pmHow did I miss Chump talking about shutting down the Internet? I hadn’t heard about that until Rand Paul mentioned it.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:52 pmI guess Christie decided to use the school closure to talk about terrorism even though it was apparently a hoax.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:53 pmFiorina hits Trump right from the get-go.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:53 pmHey Dana did you like my update?
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:53 pmThese people are pathetic and they are all coming across as pathetic.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:54 pmHa! Just saw it.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:55 pmThey’re coming across weak, Patterico.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:55 pmI don’t care for Rubio but at least he is showing some energy.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:56 pmCruz, whom I love, is coming across wooden as well.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:56 pmAre they all tired or what?
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:57 pmThey seem timid, don’t want to stir the waters yet, I guess.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:57 pmActually, they seem to be moving at Carson’s usual pace…
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:58 pmthey’ll go voom any minute now,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:58 pmThe big discussion is opened up, Patterico!
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:00 pmCruz being inauthentic in presentation is death to his candidacy.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:01 pmRubio so far wins the intros. However, he’s a good talker and we’ve already had a good talker. Ben Carson wants a few seconds of silence for the San Berdo victims. That’s Pollyanna virtue signaling.
Now Trump is talking (glitch) sense, not attacking other candidates yet, but Wolfe Blitzer is attacking Trump and now asking Jeb to engage in a game of let’s you and Trump fight.
ropelight (b1d3d2) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:03 pmOh my gosh, Dana Bash annoys me SO much.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 5:47 pm
count your blessings, could’ve been Dana Priest.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:04 pmDidja notice Jeb! did not re-affirm his attack on the “unhinged” Trump? Trump just slaughtered him.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:05 pmHey, stop picking on Danas!
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:06 pm“It’s not a war on a faith.” Nice answer by Cruz. Well said.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:07 pmjohn kasich? get offa my lawn!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:08 pmCarly is wearing a crucifix. Good for her.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:09 pmCruz was very good. He also showed that no one needs to get in the mud if they disagree with their opponent. They can refuse to play the game the media wants. He kept the focus on the issue, not the person.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:10 pmso tired… tired of waiting… tired of waiting for Bluuuuue
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:10 pmKasich wants us to be Saudi Arabia’s armed forces?
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:12 pmFiortina would bring the house down if she grabbed that crucifix, turned to Trump and started chanting “the power of Christ compels you… the power of Christ compels you!”
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:13 pmBoth Hewitt and Bash decided to go after Cruz. Had he not become the leader in Iowa, neither would be bothering. Excellent.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:14 pmFight! Fight!
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:15 pmHUGE mistake by Cruz to not fight back after Rubio’s defense of his attack on Cruz. Worst mistake of all debates that Cruz has made.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:17 pmRand did it for him.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:18 pmUnder the rules he should have been allowed to, but that moron Dana Bash did not allow it.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:18 pmRand is against open borders? Ron must be disowning him.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:19 pmBut yeah, he could have tried harder. I’m guessing he’ll come back to it.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:19 pmChristie comes across strong here.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:20 pmLuntz says Cruz took a big hit in focus group by attacking Rubio. Ugh
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:21 pmI don’t like his approach, but the attitude is good and helped Cruz, I think, because it belittles Rubio.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:21 pmRubio is a complete hack embarrassment. Don’t expect I’d vote for Rand Paul, but he was completely correct.
Bugg (fa64ec) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:21 pmThey ask questions that pit people against each other and then allow them to go back and forth running their mouths, ping, pong.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:22 pmwolf shizzle
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:22 pmWas he the one who attacked?? Maybe I was not paying close enough attention.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:23 pmI like Carson’s suit.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:24 pmThey ask questions that pit people against each other and then allow them to go back and forth running their mouths, ping, pong.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:22 pm
Which will NEVER be allowed in any debate with Hillary!
Bugg (fa64ec) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:24 pmEvery parent is checking social media. Great line from Fiorina.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:25 pmGo, Carly!
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:26 pmMake the bad guys fear what we’ll do to them, their families and their friends
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:26 pmNo need to compel private companies. Just ask them. Who’d’ thunk! Fiorina was very good.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:27 pmShut up Kasich.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:30 pmPat – I am with you. Cruz did not attack Rubio. However, the dials went way south on Cruz when he asserted Rubio was a liar.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:31 pmMy daughter thinks Rubio has really big ears.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:33 pmWolf is beyond transparent – get Rubio to attack Cruz. We just had this same tactic by Bash three rounds ago.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:34 pmOK, Cruz HAS to get a chance to respond here.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:34 pmSounded like Rubio agreed with Cruz on ISIS.
Dejectedhead (81690d) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:34 pmI told you they would try to get people fighting.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:34 pmGoing on offense. Supporting Obama and Hillary! Boom!
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:35 pmThe dialers need shock collars, Cruz brought some facts they in the CNN audience, but we are aware.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:35 pmMiranda rights: non sequitur.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:35 pmWolf had a plan from the get-go.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:36 pmNo, Chump, you do not kill innocent people.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:37 pmRubio is winning 1 on 1 vs. Cruz. The audience is clearly not with Cruz. Cruz is notably lacking in specifics in this debate. The sooner this debate ends, the better for Ted.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:38 pmDeliberately. That is insane.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:38 pmSounds like Bush has one line for this debate “Lack of seriousness”
Dejectedhead (81690d) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:38 pmLuntz group LOVED Cruz’ plan to defeat/degrade ISIS. In the 90s!
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:41 pmTrump just ate Jeb’s lunch. Jeb showed his ass and Trump spanked him.
ropelight (b1d3d2) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:41 pmIs it necessary, Hugh, to bomb hundreds and thousands of innocent children??
Is this the “toughness” we need?
This country is going insane.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:41 pmYou have to bomb hundreds of thousands of innocent children Patterico because when the terrorist bomb hundreds of thousands of innocent children, the US gets blamed.
Dejectedhead (81690d) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:43 pmCarson handled that well, with a little help from the sane people in the audience.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:43 pmLadies and gentlemen: Your CNN contributing correspondent and Sunday Show quisling, Hugh Hewitt!
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:43 pmRand is right, we did create a Safe Space for ISIS.
That’s probably why Liberals support ISIS.
Dejectedhead (81690d) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:44 pmToldya. The stoners want their internet untouched — I thought Trump was sensible on the issue.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:45 pmI’m going to have to wait for the transcript to see if that’s what he really said. Surely I misheard it?
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:46 pmThey didn’t want it untouched when they cheered Net Neutrality.
You just have to lie to them about it.
Dejectedhead (81690d) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:46 pmYes, I was pleased that a large group of people sounded as appalled as I feel right now.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:47 pmPounce, Ted. This is Marco’s weak spot.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:48 pmI don’t know why servers serving Iraq and Syria have not already been compromised. By us, I mean, I’m not discounting the Russians, Chinese, or Anonymous.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:49 pmChristie attacking the sequester.
Oh, our military has been degraded by the HORRIBLE SEQUESTER!!!!
Puh. Leeze.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:50 pmThis is just a lot of freaking chest-beating to try to get cheap applause. This debate is making me sick.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:50 pmWolf Shizzle looked like someone had spoken ill of his mother, when Fiorina told him what was what re: bureaucratic incompetence and Obamacare
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:51 pmCarley just played the gender card and fell flat on her face. She hasn’t got the gravitas…
ropelight (b1d3d2) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:52 pmCarson has the surgeon’s attitude. He talks specifics, actual operations, and sounds credible.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:52 pmThis is a terrible debate.
Dejectedhead (81690d) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:53 pmI don’t like Rubio tonight.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:54 pmLuntz group is HEAVILY weighted for Trump. So far, not a single attack on Trump was affirmed by even half of them. Typically, it is 3-1 against any attack. If this group is a true representation, we are in BIG trouble as conservatives.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:55 pmTHIS IS CRUZ’S TOPIC. KILL RUBIO (FIGURATIVELY) NOW!
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:56 pmYes. Libya. And RUBIO SUPPORTED IT.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:56 pmCruz not attacking Rubio directly though, which may be the smart way to get him.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:57 pmEXACTLY.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:57 pmThe questions are terrible. Wadda? No, Wolf, it’s not “preserving” dictators vs. “promoting democracy”, you bearded sissy-boy. It’s knowing who your enemies are and which fronts to fight on.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:57 pmSee? Rubio does not get it. He’ll go around toppling dictators and creating terrorism zones everywhere.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:59 pmNobody’ feeling sorry for Qaddafi, Rubio. It’s the damage that our country incurred when we took him out.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:59 pmSHUT UP KASICH!
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:00 pmCruz did ok on this.
Bite me, Kasich.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:00 pmBINGO. Plus it was an illegal undeclared war.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:00 pmI don’t even have to watch the debates. All I have to do is come over here and read the yellow.
John Hitchcock (9578f0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:00 pmLeave it to wolf to dumb the room down, by his sheer physical presence.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:00 pmWhy is Kasich on the stage? Are they polling Democrats registered as Republicans?
Dejectedhead (81690d) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:01 pmI agree with Trump. GOOD ANSWER.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:01 pmExactly muammar worked with us, as with Mubarak.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:02 pmReading the posts, I am glad I have not watched one second of the cnn crap shoot.
mg (31009b) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:02 pmCarly? What did you say?
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:02 pmI like the oxygen analogy from Carson.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:04 pmCarson is speaking my language, too.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:04 pmCruz is ALWAYS better when he us unapologetic. His response to the dictator question was wonderful and it resonated deeply. Cruz finally wins a round tonight!
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:05 pmRand had something but could have said it better.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:06 pmCruz does not look good talking over Blitzer even though I’d rather hear Cruz talk than Blitzer. I think he’s rattled.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:07 pmI hate it when I like Trump.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:07 pmHewitt again casting the question in terms of the ugly reality that there are no perfect solutions. He is a tool and he will lose his radio show audience, as small as it already is.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:08 pmRand Paul, you are dead to me.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:08 pmHeh. Do like I do (thanks, JVW!) and call him Chump. If you must agree with him, at least you’ll feel better.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:08 pmRand talk good this time.
Muting Kasich from here on.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:10 pmWhy can’t Kasich put his karate hands down!! He’s already starting at a deficit.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:10 pmThere is a parallel with Kirkpatrick authoritarian vs totalitarian prism.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:10 pmIraq had been a long term threat, libya was neutralized for the most part.
Dana Bash is like a long-faced dog with a bone, she really thinks she had a hot point there.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:11 pmI saw the idiotic question Wolf Spritzer asked about killing all those babies and chilwinnnn during a war and went back to NBA TV.
I would have responded:
“America, if you don’t know what a gotcha question is, that is it. But I will answer it differently. My job as POTUS is protect you, not foreign citizens. If you are naive enough to think that in war only the guilty die then vote for the other guy. If I conduct War as your President my job is to finish it. That means unconditional surrender or annihilation of the enemy and, sadly, innocents always suffer in war. That is why ending it quickly and with massive force is the right choice for the the American People. Thanks”
Rodney King's Spirit (2b29eb) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:12 pmHillary Clinton and Barack Obama are responsible for the growth of ISIS. Yay, Carly!
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:13 pmAlmost all Medved tweets so far have been to minimize/attack Cruz. That’s two of Salem’s biggest personalities who have used this occasion to try to belittle/minimize Cruz. This is no coincidence.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:13 pmChristie is an idiot.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:13 pmChristie beats his chest and Paul knocks him as the World War III candidate. This may not be a popular viewpoint but I’m with Paul here.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:14 pmRand is right. What right do we have to impose a no-fly zone in Iraq and Syria against Russia who has been invited there by Iraq and Syria?
Christie is a thug and an idiot.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:15 pmEd from SV,
I feel disappointed in Hewitt.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:16 pmTrump is now objecting to everything being about him? Ok, then.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:17 pmShut up, Kasich.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:18 pmHair pull, hair pull!
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:18 pmTrump was actually making a good point there. Then he became Donald Chump again.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:19 pmThe Jeb/Chump brouhaha is making me nuts. Kasich is playing dad, Carly sounds like mom. Oh lord, Kasich is now lecturing on leadership with his karate hands.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:19 pmHugh likes Kasich. Clearly.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:20 pmWolf won a yooge meta goal – he got the debate to devolve into a neener neener neener free for all. Now, all the immense policy responses will be ignored. ALL sound bytes will be the fight.
Ultimate cover for HRC and BHO.
America just lost the debate.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:20 pmJess weakness shows every time he takes the bait from Chump.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:20 pmWax on wax off kasichson.
The expanse has good production values.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:21 pm*Jeb*
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:21 pmCan a surgeon be a general?
Good answer by Carson. “Political class”; “I don’t do a lot of talking, I do a lot of doing”.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:21 pmhewitt and medved
mg (31009b) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:22 pmdumb and double dumb
Rubio-daring to lie through his teeth. Nobody is “paying a fine and back taxes”.The lesson we’ve really learned is he is FULL OF SHIT! There again is a lot of happytalk AND NO ENFORCEMENT.
Bugg (fa64ec) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:23 pmRubio, I don’t want to hear your ideas about amnesty.
Even if you are right that there must be a path to citizenship — we cannot have a permanent immigrant underclass.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:24 pmCruz killing Rubio now.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:24 pmAnd I’ll get Donald Trump to pay for it — HAHAHA line of the night, even if he rehearsed it.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:25 pmCruz skewered Rubio. Just gutted him.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:25 pmPut a fork in Jeb, he’s done.
ropelight (b1d3d2) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:25 pmNice touch, make Trump pay for wall. That played well.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:25 pmShut up, Dana Bash!!
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:27 pmMy question: After this debate, will Cruz still be leading Chump in the Iowa polls? Or will Chump be leading again? Also, will anyone drop out?
John Hitchcock (9578f0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:27 pmWow. Too bad the Trump/Bush exchange will be the sound bite. Cruz shines brilliantly.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:27 pmOh, shut up Dana Bash.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:27 pmDamn it, Mr. Trump.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:28 pmDo you think this is the tone — SHUT UP, DANA BASH.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:28 pmAs Dana said: shut up, Dana!
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:29 pmJeb looks like W from a distance.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:30 pmThis Bash beyotch just intentionally added kerosene to the debate fire and goes to Bush decrying the tone?!!!!!!!!!!!! The ultimate hypocrisy. Best example I have ever witnessed.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:30 pmEXACTLY Ed from SFV. Totally premeditated.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:30 pmTerrorist malpractice!!! Awesome.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:32 pmLove the point Paul is making now, whacking Rubio’s bill.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:32 pmKasich should slink away while the spotlight is on Trump or Cruz, he’s more finished than Jeb or Rand Paul. BTW, what happened to the Jersey Pumpkin?
ropelight (b1d3d2) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:32 pmRand Paul sounds like Nicholas Cage if you don’t look at him when he’s talking…
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:33 pmRubio talks out both sides of his mouth on *everything* involving the border and immigration and it’s showing.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:34 pmSo… the world is on fire and wolf blitzer wants to know if it was a good idea to remove Saddam Hussein?!?! #Sh*tForBrains
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:35 pmCarla Hernandez vs. Christie. Mismatch. Christie by KO.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:36 pmKasich muted.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:36 pmTurrible decision by CNN to use THAT, of the thousands of Facebook video questions, given that we just had the thrashing out of this issue. Classic attempt to frame the election.
I am calling it now: The crying and wailing by innocent-looking folks against the meeeeeeeannnnn Republicans is the 2016 version of the War on Women.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:36 pmOn border security, New Jersey thug is good way to be.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:37 pmi need to ‘fess up, Ed, i totally ripped off yur 159…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:39 pmI am happily stunned that Wolf allowed cruz a THIRD unfettered bite at Rubio on the Gang of 8 discussion.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:40 pmColonel, I am honored.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:41 pmLike Ann Coulter said, Ted Kennedy has the only confirmed kill in the War on Women. I saw that somewhere today.
ropelight (b1d3d2) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:41 pmDrudge
mg (31009b) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:43 pmtrump 53
cruz 21
paul 9
So its been a day and Serrano hasn’t updated his twitter feed, much less the paper.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:47 pmBe forewarned: Rubio and the media have some evidence that Cruz once offered a legal path to citizenship. Medved has already retweeted such.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:48 pmBut robinabcarian has her pulse on the nation.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:49 pmI don’t think Trump knew what the nuclear triad is.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:49 pmOh, here we go.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:50 pmThe temperment thing.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:50 pmLuntz says Cruz won each 1 on 1 against Rubio in his focus group.
So…what’s the turnout gonna be – moderates or conservatives. That’s the primary, folks.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:50 pmTrump just destroyed Bash. I love him, sometimes.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:51 pmCarson did pretty good this round, as did rand on immigration and the Syrian Gordian knot.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:52 pmShut up, Dana!! No one wants to hear you!
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:52 pmShe does not lay a glove on Cruz.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:52 pmCruz is great! Shut up, Dana!!
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:53 pmThey were SO excited about that and it went nowhere.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:53 pmCruz: Dana, stop trying to distract us with stupid stuff!
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:53 pmHeh. Trump will say anything that needs to be said at the moment. I love the Republican Party… For now.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:54 pmChump rules out independent run.
For today.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:54 pmJINX YOU OWE ME A COKE
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:55 pmTrump commits to “remaining” a Republican.
Carson did not. I don’t know that I hold that against him. I don’t find much in the GOP to be loyal to these days, either.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:56 pmWell he uses that tactic as leverage, he sees no need to make that claim now.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:57 pmCommercial break…
Col Haiku, you made me laugh out loud at 38!
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:57 pmI writed a post, because this debate is stupid.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:58 pmNk,
Perhaps that’s because Carson wouldn’t be honest in saying that, and he appears to be, if anything, an honest man.
Trump, on the other hand…
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:59 pmCruz started nervously and inauthentically. When he finally let go, especially when finally being given a real chance to nail Rubio, he won Iowa.
The question is what the Trump-ets do in NH. Do they break to their customary “moderate” instincts and go to Rubio, or do they reward Cruz for having respected the Donald? I don’t see the yankee squishes voting Cruz. But, if they do? Cruz is the nominee.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 7:59 pmBye Jeb, you’re done.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:02 pmEd from SV,
I agree re Cruz being inauthentic and almost unsure of himself. It took a while for him to kick into gear. I wish he’d work on that. Too much rigidity makes him appear unsure. And if there is anyone more sure of his positions, it’s Criz.
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:03 pmErr, Cruz…
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:03 pmBye Jeb, you’re done.
Who??
Dana (86e864) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:04 pmEd- that all may pass. But why do we let 2 small states hold such power? Makes less sense than Bush, Christie, Rubio and way less than Kasich.
Bugg (fa64ec) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:05 pmRand — the debt!
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:06 pmKasich — on mute. What is it with the sign language; I thought Christie was the Italian?
Christie — remember 9/11.
Carly — beat Hillary!
Jeb — sigh.
Rubio — mucho nada. Very disappointing tonight.
Cruz — Obama sucks, Amrica rules, I will be another Reagan.
Carson — I like to be in America.
Trump — America is in bad shape; hope in me and I’ll change that.
It’s strange, Dana. Things I find annoying in Trump, I find tolerable, even endearing, in Carson.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:08 pmIs a deal in play between Paul and Cruz? Would Paul fit in a Cruz cabinet?
mg (31009b) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:11 pmChump in post-debate interview really seems convinced he has the nomination wrapped up.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:12 pmCarson exudes sincerity and judgement. This is why they attacked his primer on the constitution, along with the slanders against his integrity.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:13 pmPaul, Cruz and Lee are the wack-birds of the Senate, remember, mg? They agree on most things.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:16 pm*wacko-birds*
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:16 pmTrump’s answer to Hewitt’s question about defense spending made absolutely no sense. I literally had no idea what he was talking about. But I assume his backers thought it made a lot of sense. If I have time I’ll read it after the transcript’s up.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:18 pmKrauthammer denying Cruz his victory sets the tone for the Fox coverage. Stand by for the direct attacks on a Cruz flip-flop on immigrant legalization.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:19 pmPaul and his voters should be worth something.
mg (31009b) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:20 pmA czarship?
adios
mg (31009b) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:31 pmhttp://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/15/photo-jeb-bush-supporter-alone-empty-jeb-party-florida/
We had the Chinese, and later all Asians who looked like them, barred from naturalization until 1943. I don’t want to see a law like that again. Permanent residency should have the goal of citizenship or it should not exist at all. If they are not going to be loyal Americans eventually, we don’t need them here for any longer than we have a need for their services.
nk (dbc370) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:34 pmListening to O’Reilly I think he has the best answer to why Trump is winning …. he is emotionally connecting with Voters who are mostly angry about the Country’s direction. And all the policy discussions don’t mean much when folks are that angry.
Only once the house is razed can the builders reconstruct. Trump is razing it. Maybe Cruz and Company can reconstruct later.
Rodney King's Spirit (2b29eb) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:34 pmYes the Chinese exclusion act was stupid, this proposal, has a different purpose.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/15/2015 @ 8:37 pmToldja. Megyn Kelly and Hume at the top of the show, went after Cruz with a pre-produced segment on legalization.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 9:07 pmhe is emotionally connecting with Voters who are mostly angry about the Country’s direction. And all the policy discussions don’t mean much when folks are that angry.
This nation is in such a mess right now that a very visceral emotion fueled by disgust with political correctness gone berserk instead of what animated much of the electorate in 2008 — that being a love of touchy-feely and “we are the world,” and thinking George W Bush had destroyed that loveliness — is cropping up.
Republicans like Jeb Bush can’t figure that one out, Republicans like Kasich are appalled about the whole thing (while they stand around with their finger up their nose), Republicans like Rubio are uneasy and anxious to say “please don’t be so candid about demographics and socio-economic failings…that’s rude!,” and Republicans like Cruz and Carson must feel like they’re increasingly trapped between a rock and a hard place.
As for that other segment of the American public that has been and always will be the perfect enabler to Democrats like Hillary, that could be hog-tied and whipped by her ilk until they’re a bloody pulp, yet would still love such liberal loons no less, that runs home just how screwed up this country is in the 21st century.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/15/2015 @ 10:42 pmI already have a winning platform as you all know,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:43 amWhich candidate should I send it to,
or should I send it to them all, including Walker and Jindal, and see who will take the advice?
We could use some more “isolationism” — if the opposite of isolationism is “killing a bunch of innocent people (as well as guilty ones) to destabilize a region.”
I sense a lot of the public is (or should be) increasingly leaning in that direction.
My one major pet peeve about too much of the right is its tendency to be overly pro-military-state even when it comes to very complicated, murky socio-political situations, reminiscent of the way much of the left becomes overly pro-welfare-state when it comes to, again, complicated, murky socio-political situations.
One of the few international issues where I haven’t minded What’s-His-Name generally taking a hands-off approach to matters and shying away from going rah-rah about the US military, unlike the French and their combative approach to one portion of the Middle East, has been the quagmire of Syria, Bashar al-Assad, and all the rebels he and that country are facing.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/16/2015 @ 7:49 amUnder the rules he should have been allowed to, but that moron Dana Bash did not allow it.
There needs to be a limit on the 30-second responses. It’s been gamed in the past, where two candidates monopolize the debate by “arguing.”
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/16/2015 @ 9:53 amI see a Trump-Kasich ticket. This way:
* We get to see Kasich find new ways to suck up.
* They can both lose debates. Hillary could beat Trump without speaking.
* Trump has assassination insurance, at least on the Right.
* Anytime Trump seems annoying, he can always trot out Kasich for perspective.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/16/2015 @ 10:06 amAs Steven Green pointed out last night, Trump flubbed the Triad question a month ago, and hasn’t since taken the 2 minutes it would take to correct that ignorance.
Lazier than Obama.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/16/2015 @ 10:34 am94. Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 12/15/2015 @ 6:55 pm
Luntz group is HEAVILY weighted for Trump. So far, not a single attack on Trump was affirmed by even half of them.
If it is the same group he used before, that he mentioned on Face the Nation Sunday, it is. That group consisted of Trump supprters, and nothing could shake them, at least not quickly.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/face-the-nation-transcripts-december-13-2015-kerry-kasich-burr/
This one consisted of 27 Republican voters – I so far did not find an explanation of how they were picked.
They probably would have been about 40% Trump supporters, anyway. (10 or 11)
Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa) — 12/16/2015 @ 10:57 amMD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:43 am
Ben Carson, if you really think it is right. He is the only one likely to pay serious attention to it, if you can get it past the gatekeepers. Try church connections. You might have to meet him in person, which might mean a trip to New Hampshire, or giving it to someone in New Hampshire.
No reason not to send it to everyone, but don’t make it look that way too much. Send it to other outlets, too. You could try mailing it to 150 or 300 random voters in New Hampshire.
But where is it, if we all know it?
Sammy Finkelman (4d9cfa) — 12/16/2015 @ 11:13 amWhere is Beldar?
mg (31009b) — 12/16/2015 @ 2:17 pmMy platform:
1) a. Immediately by executive order do what I can to make all fed officials and employees obey the same laws as everyone else does, eg ObamaCare, SS etc.
b. I will never sign a law in the future that grants exceptions/exemptions.
c. I will ask Congress to reverse the things they need to do, shame them into doing it, and campaign for new candidates in primary against my own party incumbents to make this as broad as possible.
2) I will never sign an omnibus budget bill. Give it to me in separate spending authorization by category. If they won’t, when the fed govt. shuts down I will not close national parks and memorials just to spite the American people like President Obama did.
3) I will never sign anything until every member of Congress as well as myself and my own staff will swear before a notary that we have read it.
4) When a bill is available for officials to read, it will be posted for the public to read,
and I will keep this promise, not just make it like President Obama and too many elected republicans in Congress.
5) We will improve the budget situation or vote me out the next election. we cannot keep spending money we don’t have. no one else in America gets too.
6) Any vacations I take while in office will have the expenses for myself and my family (and any friends) taken out of my salary. The taxpayer will have to pay the security tab, but not mine. The same with our household (not official entertainment) grocery bill. Any guest performances in the WH will be put on Youtube for all to see, or they will not happen.
7) I will work to get rid of bureaucrats not responsive to the people. the administrative state must be reined in.
8) I do not believe the United States is responsible for the problems in the world. We have made mistakes and need to strive to make fewer ones, but we have been a force for freedom in the world and I will not condemn the American people to sit in the back seat of world events while others have hold of the steering wheel. I will also not commit American troops to measures which cannot be finished during my time in office. I will not commit our troops to lose blood simply to have their sacrifice spat upon by a new administration.
9) I lock my front door and back door at night, we should for the country as well. Border enforcement measures will be signed by executive order and bills presented to Congress before I get off the podium at the swearing in ceremony.
10) I will honor the memory and legacy of Martin Luther King, Jr. by filling all levels of the federal government as is possible under my direction with people judged by the content of their character.
That is my working platform as of 12/16/2015.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/16/2015 @ 2:53 pmNow tell me, what platform is in your wallet…
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/12/ominibus-bill-rewards-department-of-education-overreach.php
Never happen in my administration…
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/16/2015 @ 4:54 pmJust sayin’.
MD,
Your PowerLine link verifies why we were right to be leery of supporting Paul Ryan as Speaker. He is proving to be a disappointing establishment Republican whose agenda is focused on cronyism and DC politics.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:26 pmryan is same as boehnerfilth
greasy useless whorish and cowardly
happyfeet (831175) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:28 pmIt reportedly also repeal the Cadillac tax that unions hate. Whose side is Ryan on again?
DRJ (15874d) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:29 pmdo they bother to do any fact checking before embarassing themselves,
“Asked to respond to Burr’s comments, a Cruz campaign spokeswoman, Catherine Frazier, passed along news reports from the Washington Post and Wall Street Journal from 2014 that contained the 20 percent to 30 percent figures Cruz used, along with congressional testimony from an NSA official suggesting the USA Freedom Act could expand the universe of calls available to the agency to search. The material, Frazier noted, is “all publicly available.”
narciso (732bc0) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:30 pmhas trump said anything about the republicans and their greasy useless whorish and cowardly budget?
trumpytrump manhattanslut needs to speak up i think
happyfeet (831175) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:31 pmbut wait, I thought he said everyone was unhappy with the bill, what did we get out of it ‘a year’s worth of rice a roni, and a copy of the home game,’
narciso (732bc0) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:34 pmthe bill slops the holy hell out of the pentagon piggies
let’s go out on a limb and predict all this slop slop slop will be to no discernible effect whatsoever
unless maybe they put some of it toward a tattoo removal program
that would be nice
happyfeet (831175) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:40 pmbtw, they finally did convict phillip chism, how this wasn’t an open and shut case?
narciso (732bc0) — 12/16/2015 @ 5:57 pmwonder why they would be cagey,
https://twitter.com/RalstonReports/status/677260407053094912
because the tribune, the post, et al, have been hermetically sealed from acquisition by conservatives,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/16/2015 @ 6:33 pmcry havoc and let loose the dogs of war:
http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/16/guest-worker-program-expanded-fourfold-under-new-provision-in-spending-bill/#ixzz3uXdTt7JJ
narciso (732bc0) — 12/16/2015 @ 6:38 pmalso let loose the dogs of why is shopping for wine at amazon so hard
i can’t work like this
happyfeet (831175) — 12/16/2015 @ 6:48 pmOT: now i’m glad Ryan is not running for President.
seeRpea (52281f) — 12/16/2015 @ 6:50 pmsheesh. the warnings about Ryan being a sheep in wolf clothing were correct.
try the wines and more place, they advertise on the radio,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/16/2015 @ 6:50 pmtotal wines and more,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/16/2015 @ 6:57 pmtried – that one’s kinda tough too
I’m a wait and see on this one i think
it’s the last thing i have to buy
happyfeet (831175) — 12/16/2015 @ 7:06 pmafter reading more about the omnibus bill, i’ve changed my mind.
seeRpea (cf8aaf) — 12/17/2015 @ 7:05 ami so want Trump to win now.
not saying i’d vote for him, but dang…
They’re small people, all the professional politicians.
nk (dbc370) — 12/17/2015 @ 7:09 amsheesh. the warnings about Ryan being a sheep in wolf clothing were correct.
Squish-squish (or “centrism” or quasi-conservatism) in the context of 21st-century America is a killer, merely a slow-timer version of flat-out liberalism. But a lot of the blame for that has to fall at the feet of the millions of people in this country who in previous opinion polls, on the question of the federal budget being held up, have rated the Republicans/Tea Party more harshly and negatively than the Democrats/liberals. Much less that large part of the electorate that allowed the worst, most leftwing president in US history to be slotted into the White House not just once, but twice.
Ted Cruz is really the only Republican candidate out there who I have greater confidence in about not being corrupted by decades of squish-squish, whereas Donald Trump could easily be another Ryan. But even the shoddiest of the Republican candidates is not as bad and frightening as a scroungy character like Hillary.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/17/2015 @ 7:43 amI guess now we know the answer to Beldar’s question. Yes, Ryan is just as bad as Boehner.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/17/2015 @ 9:40 amworse cause he has cheesy douchebag facial hairs all over his face
happyfeet (831175) — 12/17/2015 @ 9:49 amcheesy douchebag facial hairs
this
happyfeet (831175) — 12/17/2015 @ 9:54 amWe got rid of Boehner and the worst part is that nothing can dislodge Ryan now. It must be nice to be the establishment and know that even if Cruz wins and they “lose” the Presidency, they still have Ryan to protect them.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/17/2015 @ 10:01 amnarciso@ 239: http://dailycaller.com/2015/12/16/guest-worker-program-expanded-fourfold-under-new-provision-in-spending-bill/#ixzz3uXdTt7JJ
It looks to me like that’s a lie (and on principle, anything coming from Senator Sessions should be distrusted.)
It doesn’t raise the cap at all!
What it does do is exclude from the cap any worker who has already received an H-2B visa in the last three years. So apparently Senator Sessions multiplied the cap by 4.
The only problem with that is, many current or previous workers, were already exempt from the cap. And obviously, it won’t be different workers every year.
Also, the way the cap works, it is actually 33,000 every half year. (applications cannot be made more than six months in advance of when a job is supposed to start) So maybe he should multiply the current number by 8?
The maximum duration of a H2-B visa is one year, so I guess that’s his excuse for using one year. But it can be extended up to 3 years total.
http://www.workpermit.com/us/employer_h-2b.htm
The system, as it works now, is, as they say, broken. (In fact it is this kind of thing that the word “broken” is properly applied to.)
It is not doing what it is supposedly doing. It becomes a game and a lottery, with employers having to carefully time their applications, and applications accepted after winning a lottery, and the successful applications going more and more to those who know how to game or work the system.
This results from the fact that the law qualifies certain people for such visas, but then sets a quota that is now far less than the number of people who qualify. The one thing you can say then is that the law is not doing what it is supposedly doing.
The 33,000 cap for employment beginning in the first half of the fiscal year 2015(October 1 – March 31) was reached on January 26, 2015, meaning employers who wanted or needed H-2B visas after January 26, 2015 but wanting the job to start before April 1 were out of luck. The cap for April 1- September 30 was reached on March 26, 2015.
If this was not to disrupt numerous businesses, something had to be done. So now all previously hired workers are excluded from the cap.
Sammy Finkelman (a69e24) — 12/17/2015 @ 10:27 am