Cruz Rejects Ritual Denunciation
There has been a recent absurd proposal to ban all Muslims from coming to this country — or even returning, as American citizens, from their trips abroad.
The media always plays a game when Republicans say stupid things like this. They run to other Republicans and expect them to issue ritual denunciations.
Ted Cruz says: homie don’t play that game.
I think it’s fine if you want to criticize a dumb proposal. But nobody is required to. And if I were running for President, and I were expected to issue a ceremonial condemnation, I think I’d pass — just as Cruz is doing.
Besides. Remember when Glenn Greenwald used to run around playing that game? I decided to just condemn everything. And on July 13, 2006, I did.
So, whenever you want me to condemn something, my answer to you is: I already did, years ago. What took you so long?
Racists
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/8/2015 @ 7:20 pmDenounced and condemned.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/8/2015 @ 7:20 pmI wish PETA would denounce Trump’s hair — it’s insensitive to badgers.
nk (dbc370) — 12/8/2015 @ 7:30 pmTrump with his vile intolerance damages the Republican brand. But vile intolerance IS the Democratic party brand.
One could argue that Trump is advocating trashing the Constitution, is anti-American, and is against every traditional American value. But then if that’s true the progs who demand we shred the First, Second, and Fifth Amendments to comply with the HHS abortifacient mandate, fight white privilege, and to undermine some fictional campus rape culture are ten times worse.
Steve57 (a13395) — 12/8/2015 @ 7:58 pmWell if the citizen is returning from their trip to Syria, might be worth a look.
Dr Dave (91dd9c) — 12/8/2015 @ 8:18 pmhttp://junkscience.com/2015/12/video-mark-steyn-talks-global-warming-at-senate-hearing/
narciso (732bc0) — 12/8/2015 @ 8:20 pmI don’t believe Trump advocated banning “all Muslims from coming to this country — or even returning, as American citizens, from their trips abroad.”
He’s calling for a temporary ban on Muslim immigration till we can consider the issue and decide how to handle it. No American citizens would be prevented from returning from overseas, that’s a smear job, same with denying Jordan’s King entry.
Remember when Republicans wanted to cut back on the funding for food stamps and the Democrats went crazy claiming the GOP wanted to take food out of the mouths of children? This is the same sort of dirty politics.
ropelight (42d4f7) — 12/8/2015 @ 8:24 pmI thought Steyn’s slaying the skydragon was worthy of note,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/8/2015 @ 8:32 pmThis cartoon is NOT anti-Trump. Honest. http://media.townhall.com/townhall/car/b/04-12_11Comb_Over_cl20110412012055.jpg
nk (dbc370) — 12/8/2015 @ 8:47 pmThe progressive left has forsworn political dialogue and now almost exclusively employs Alinsky’s Rule 5:
“Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions.
Roy Lofquist (6e7240) — 12/8/2015 @ 8:47 pmThank you for the gentle nudge narciso. It is indeed worthy of note and I recommend it without reservation. It isn’t long and Mark Steyn makes his points with accuracy and aplomb.
ropelight (42d4f7) — 12/8/2015 @ 8:48 pmKinda reminds me of a squashed squirrel, which is I refer to Trump as “Ol’ Squirreltop”.
Bill H (2a858c) — 12/8/2015 @ 9:02 pmI decided to just condemn everything. And on July 13, 2006, I did.
Unfortunately, around 3 years later, that didn’t include your characterizing the crud now in the Oval Office as a “good man.”
Mark (f713e4) — 12/8/2015 @ 9:11 pmI commend Cruz for the way he handled this. That guy is nobody’s fool.
My guess is Trump’s vagueness on the citizens issue is intentional; he wants to kick up a media storm, and of course he left himself room to wiggle out of it down the road (he can honestly say that he never said that, a spokeswoman did and got it “wring”). If so, I don’t like it; the rights of citizens (including citizens I don’t like, of course) should not be played politics with.
On the rest of his proposal, I applaud it. It needed saying. It also needs to be made sane at some point; it’s totally unworkable in practice to screen by religion (they’ll just lie)so in practice it’d require stopping all inflow from muslim majority countries, or better yet, all countries with significant jihadist infestations. And a president does have the power to do any or all of the above (it’s implied in the constitution, and made explicit in, amongst other places, the 1952 immigration act).
BTW, IMHO the white house wins the prize for dumbest response to Trump’s latest. By including an attack on his hair, they guaranteed that most headlines would focus on the “fake hair” bit and ignore the rest. They done shot themselves in the foot, as they often do (hey, no wonder they want to make guns disappear- they’re running out of toes!)
In other news, it looks like we were, surprise surprise, lied to about Benghazi regarding whether or not the military could get there and do something. Somebody should sent Hillary a thank-you card for that e-mail server of hers; it’s a gift that just keeps on giving.
Arizona CJ (331a26) — 12/8/2015 @ 9:26 pmThis is from the NYT:
nk (dbc370) — 12/8/2015 @ 9:55 pm“Responding to some of the blistering criticism on Tuesday, Mr. Trump, a Republican presidential candidate, steadfastly defended his proposal but said any ban would be temporary and would not apply to United States citizens.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/09/world/europe/donald-trumps-call-to-bar-muslims-reverberates-abroad.html
Cruz’s statement would pack more of a punch if he hadn’t spent months sucking up to Trump in the hopes of wooing his supporters. Given the recent Iowa poll, one hopes Trump will go on the attack against him just so Cruz will finally man up and verbally smack around the toupee-wearing RINO.
A “smear job” that his own campaign started, which makes Trump an even bigger idiot than was thought possible. I knew Trump had a knack for jumping into gullible moron traps, but evidently it’s a requirement for his staff, too.
tops116 (d094f8) — 12/8/2015 @ 9:58 pmAh, we’re well into backtrack mode now. By tomorrow, Trump’ll be blaming everyone else for the words that came out of his and his staffers’ mouths. “See, it was the media and Jeb that tricked me into it. I tried to stop them.”
tops116 (d094f8) — 12/8/2015 @ 10:02 pmMark,
That never gets old.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/8/2015 @ 10:33 pmhee haw, nk.
mg (31009b) — 12/8/2015 @ 11:05 pmThat never gets old.
Patterico, neither does all your angst and ire towards Donald Trump.
(BTW, I admit that I slag on Jeb Bush not much less frequently, albeit made much easier by his low rating in polls on Republican candidates either most or least favored).
Mark (f713e4) — 12/8/2015 @ 11:26 pmCruz’s statement would pack more of a punch if he hadn’t spent months sucking up to Trump in the hopes of wooing his supporters.
I hope Cruz is tactically smarter than that, due in part to his realizing that Republicans bickering amongst themselves strategically helps the Democrats — if only by allowing the glare of negative publicity to be momentarily directed away from Hillary — and, most crucially, that by attacking Trump not for his squishiness but for things that generally can be deemed conservative or rightwing, in turn, makes the right look bad.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/8/2015 @ 11:35 pmMy main concern about Trump is that the most charitable thing you can say about him is that he’s crazy.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:12 amtops116
Correct. A monster has been created and no one can stop him. Except a bigger monster, that will be Hillary.
We’re well past the point where men can claim they are playing three dimensional chess in an honest fashion. It’s over–Hillary has been given the victory. You have to hand it to the Clintons they know divide and conquer methodology well, and they also remember how Perot worked out for them last time. A huge vacuum for Hillary will be created and the effect might well hand her a Senate majority thus resulting in a decades long change to the Supreme Court and all the other federal court benches.
We’re on the road to socialism taking root in an irretrievable way and this primary of a narcissist and his fanner paved the way. There was a point where Cruz could have made a right turn and looked somewhat respectable but that moment has passed and he will be just another moth burned by the flame.
DRG (76b104) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:18 ambill’s wife has zero chance of a presidency. bill’s crack is over and done.
mg (31009b) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:27 amTrump or Cruz losers.
mg (31009b) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:27 amCruz/West
Speaker ryan says bring em all in cause that’s who we are. Eff you ryan I hope they go after your white family. pos loser who should be dangling from a cheese stick. America sucks more and more everyday because of republicans like ryan.
mg (31009b) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:49 amThe lengths to which some go to justify their candidate.
Cruz is not criticizing Trump for strategic reasons: he hopes to reap the bulk of his support when The Donald goes away. It’s as baldly politically calculated as his 180 on TPP.
Trump and Cruz both play the gullible rubes.
Estragon (ada867) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:56 amAmericans should stay home. Stop traveling over to countries that want us dead. Stay the hell out of europe as these dolts will soon die because of the muzzie population explosion. Ship these illegal ingrates back to their diseased infested countries. peace out.
mg (31009b) — 12/9/2015 @ 3:02 amMr. Trump started an interesting and on-point discussion someone should buy him a denver omelette
speaker boy looks like he’s got a mancrush on Scott Disick with that douchebag beard
happyfeet (831175) — 12/9/2015 @ 3:07 amspeaker cheese whiz is prepping for ramadan 2016.
mg (31009b) — 12/9/2015 @ 3:22 amcheese wiz proved himself to be a total pu**y by handing food stamp two years worth of whorebudgets
no wonder he’s afraid to leave his wife alone on the weekends
happyfeet (831175) — 12/9/2015 @ 4:36 amThat NYT article has a couple of 20-year old French girls wondering why Americans who elected Obama twice would ever elect Trump. Well, duh!
Look, doulcettes, if we elected Obama twice, we’re likely to elect anybody. Just practice saying “Twenty euros for half an hour, 200 for all night*” in German, m’kay?
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 6:15 am*Zwanzig Euro für eine halbe Stunde, zwehundert für die ganze Nacht.
Patterico called what Trump said “absurd”. Dana called it “ridiculous”. I hope they have an alternative plan because when (NOT IF) moslems strike again and the body count increases things could get ugly. What happens WHEN a moslem either home grown, imported or was here then visited some moslem country and returned detonates a dirty bomb or releases a toxin and kills thousands, or tens of thousands or more?
How many Americans need to be murdered guys, before you admit there is no reason for moslems to be in America? What s the magic number that drives home the fact that moslems are at war with us and want to kill us and it’s really, really not smart to let the enemy in your camp. You all certainly can’t believe the moslems are just going to stop killing , do you?
Here’s a little of Victor Davis Hanson:
You may think Trump ridiculous and absurd but when your family lies dead in a pool of blood in the street will it then be time to realize: there is no reason for moslems to be in America? They bring nothing to our culture we need and everything they see here they hate. Read Hanson’s article.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 6:46 amYeah, right. http://www.uchospitals.edu/physicians/issam-awad.html This is a guy who refuses to assimilate and pines for the old country.
I’m also told that Dr. Awad was Reagan’s emergency doctor during Reagan’s visits to Chicago.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:08 amCruz voted in favor of TPA (fast-tracking trade agreements) because he supports free trade, but he also specifically reserved the possibility that he might oppose the TPP. In fact, he did change his mind once the details were revealed and it was clear TPP is a corrupt, flawed agreement — not to mention the Ex-Im Bank side deal. Being in favor of free trade doesn’t mean Cruz has to be in favor of bad trade agreements.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:25 am^ That’s another reassuring aspect of Cruz.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:34 amPatterico called what Trump said “absurd”. Dana called it “ridiculous”.
That’s fine if they’ve also repeatedly singled and pointed out the situation in today’s US military (an entity that presumably — presumably — is not devoutly liberal like the ACLU, Act Up or the NAACP), in which a fanatic like Nidal Hasan, due to the corrupting nature of political correctness, was tolerated or ignored until it was too late.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:40 amLook, doulcettes, if we elected Obama twice, we’re likely to elect anybody.
To be fair to such people, they’re assuming (and correctly so, based on a liberal loon like Barry grabbing the brass ring in 2008 and 2012—much less the often fawning opinion poll results for Hillary) that we’re as mindlessly, blindly and idiotically liberal as many French are. IOW, Trump is controversial not because of his leftist or apolitical biases (which he has no shortage of), but because of his most highly publicized stances that generally and definitely can’t be characterized as liberal or stereotypically leftwing.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:46 amDonald Trump is offering leadership, he’s tellin’ it like it is, he isn’t pussyfooting around kowtowing to political correctness, or kissing up to media whores or following the GOPe’s Pollyanna agenda, and the polls clearly show the American people and especially GOP voters strongly approve.
Naysayers and guttersnipes have been using every underhanded trick in their Politics of Personal Destruction playbook to knock him down and nothing works, he just gets stronger and stronger. That’s because Americans know the nation is sick want the hard nosed brand of medicine he’s offering.
Maybe, just maybe, there’s something going on here they don’t understand or refuse to understand. Trump is a winner, he’s beating the socks off every other candidate in both parties, hell’s bells even Democrats, significant portions of them anyway, will vote for Trump. He’s the real thing, he’s even better than the real thing. And we’re lucky to have him emerge at exactly the right time and place to lead the nation back to greatness again.
I support Donald Trump openly and enthusiastically. Friends, put aside your irrational fears and your animosity, stick your toe in the water, and once reassured, come on in, the water’s fine.
ropelight (bd50c4) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:50 amI think Trump is a master persuader who is especially adept at capitalizing on events to capture the spotlight.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:52 amHe’s also very good at creating urgency and presenting himself as a truth-teller. He is a master salesman as well as persuader.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:55 amIt’s fun to watch Trump.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 7:55 amput aside your irrational fears and your animosity
What has Trump appealed to except irrational fears and animosity? What positive thing has he said? Where is his “America is too great to dream small dreams”? His “shining city on the hill”, even? All he’s been saying is be afraid of Mexicans, Muslims and China, China, China, China, China, China ….
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:00 amI keep asking in various places: What number of terrorists per ten thousand immigrants
Richard Aubrey (472a6f) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:02 amis acceptable? One? Three? Ten?
Well the French did reflect hollandaise, then expected a different result, it’s actually different than in the 50s, when the socialist were the more adventurists and the gaullist more conciliatory, a cautionary note, many of the pied noir opponents of degaulle two years earlier had been his supporters.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:02 amexcept irrational fears and animosity?
There’s nothing irrational about being astonished and appalled by a socio-political atmosphere that’s so corrupt and idiotic, that, again, even a loudmouth fanatic like Nidal Hasan — even within the context of the US military — could get away with what he did.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:09 amThat was really good nk, you found one guy (who BTW I think is a Christian) by which to impose 100,000 potential moslem killers on our families. Good job. If you’re working for them. Nobody is saying to “be afraid” of anybody, nk. We’re saying don’t be stupid.
I wonder why you value the lives of my wife, your family and ten thousand others less than the hurt feelings of some moslems. Or another 3,000 in the WTC. What does it take with you? If the WTC wasn’t enough I don’t know.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:30 amFirst, Rev. Hoagie sir,
some of us are very eager to admit there is a much bigger problem than many would acknowledge,
why are you unwilling to admit that there are some people who call themselves Muslim who are not a threat?
This is an interesting perspective, though I doubt Trump is doing it purposefully,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:34 amand I have no idea how it is going to play out.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/12/from-a-window-2.php
So stupid it’s surprising how many people, in the wake of revelations about how Tashfeen Malik got into this country, think it’s a good idea.
formwiz (6b3a5a) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:36 amGreetings:
And, and unfortunately predictably, the mainstream media finds no hint of divisiveness in all that Koranic “ummah” versus the “kuffars” stuff or that those lousy kuffars must feel themselves subdued. Those are just 7th Century A.D. team-buildling exercises.
Islam is the millstone. It is nothing more than the globalization of 7th Century A.D. predatory Arab tribal culture under a thin veneer of religion. ANd if you plan doesn’t included constraining, undermining, or eradicating Islam, you don’t have a plan. WHat you have is a hope.
11B40 (6abb5c) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:36 amWhere does hinderaker think the gun registry came from, the joyce foundation.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:39 amhmmm,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2015/12/08/house-visa-waiver-reforms-expected-to-draw-strong-bipartisan-support/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/12/08/visa-waiver-program-house-senate-europe/76978544/
seeRpea (e151be) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:52 amBecause MD in Philly, it has no value. I’m sure there are moslems who pose no threat, so what? How do we tell the difference? If you can guarantee each and every moslem they let in is not a threat then fine. But it can’t be done and I find it disgusting that Americans are willing to let their fellow Americans be murdered by people who could be easily stopped. Would you feel the same if they were bringing in the plague? No. You would not let 10,000 “refugees” come into your town if 130 had the plague. Well these two turds in SB lived in a townhouse, worked here, had a baby here, one was American the other an immigrant, they both went to Pakistan, they were both let back in, they had bombs, weapons and an ideology of murder and lived next to people with kids, wives, parents and you guys don’t seem to give a damn. Because they didn’t live next to you or murder your wife at a Christmas party. It pains me to say that but it seems if it’s not your loved ones murdered by the moslems it’s all okay, let’em in!
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 8:56 amLet’s consider a hypothetical situation.
One person is coming to your house and he plans to kill you. Do you let him in?
How about if two people are coming to your house and one plans to kill you but you don’t know which one. Do you let them in?
How about if three people are coming to your house and one plans to kill you but you don’t know which one. Do you let them in?
Let’s say we reach a point where you feel the odds are sufficient to let everyone enter your house, but, at this point 4% of the people coming want to kill you. Do you still let them in? What if the percentage was higher? Do you still let them in?
Now, if you are letting them in at any point how dumb are you? Trump’s proposal says until we figure out how to properly vet the “refugees” we stop letting in people who want to kill us. To me that seems reasonable. I don’t want to die to prove I am “tolerant.”
Look at what happened to the presidency, our country and the world when one candidate was not adequately vetted. Do you still want to take a chance?
Jim (a9b7c7) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:02 amI can understand Obama wanting to bring in moslems, terrorists or not. He is one. We don’t need to import the moslem war to Philly, South Beach and Disneyworld.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:06 amThat was really good nk, you found one guy
Perhaps in a similar vein, I do recall nk earlier this year stating that Africa today is a socio-economic mess because of — to paraphrase and as implied — the dastardly, greedy, imperialist, racist/bigoted white Europeans who entered that continent generations ago. Such a POV is intertwined with dippy-liberal sentiment, mainly due to much of Africa, well before and after the arrival (and, in turn, departure) of people of European descent never being in truly good shape, economically, socially and politically.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:08 amALL the Muslims I know are like that guy, Hoagie.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:14 amYou know which people have killed over four times more Americans than Muslims in living memory?
Who have nuclear weapons, and ballistic missiles that can reach the United States?
Who are still in a state of war against the United States subject only to a truce and a demilitarized zone?
Koreans!
Like that Athenian philosopher Plato, whose writings formed the basis of the Detroit city charter, never said: Bugger off, Mark.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:16 amMark, don’t get me started on what the communists under ANC and moslems did to South Africa. We have a close SA friend who lost almost her entire family to the anti apartheid leftist backed black SA’s. They have taken a once beautiful country and nearly made it Somalia. Few more years it will be. I was Skyping her family with her this past Sunday and they can’t get out. The U.S. isn’t taking white, Christian refugees from moslem/communist régimes it seems.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:18 am“Racists”?
I prefer to think of myself as a bigot.
ThOR (a52560) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:24 amDo you mean North Koreans nk? The communist Koreans, right? So whats your point? Did these Koreans shoot up a Christmas party or run a jet liner into the WTC? No! You have more sympathy for moslems trying to get in to America than you do for the dead woman and children they create.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:27 amBugger off, Mark.
nk, I also recall your becoming oddly indignant when I pointed out that Adolph Hitler — based on good research by reliable historians — was homosexual. That along with his also being into animal rights and a vegan diet. Not to mention Germany’s most infamous politician rallying around a political entity whose name contained “socialist.”
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:27 amI love that ThOR. The moslems murder people with religions they don’t like, or sexuality they don’t like or whatever but if you or I say “throw out the Moslems” we’re the bigots. So if you don’t want an invader in your country you’re a bigot but if you murder some guy cause he’s Lutheran you’re not?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:30 amthe left is always moving the window, Truman couldn’t get singlepayer through in 49, but they took steps that were unobjectionable, to get to the moment when they could finally impose Medicare in 65, and move the yardline through the HMO bill, and other steps to get to Roberts Care, similarly they started first with seemingly arcane regulations in Catholic Conneticut (Griswold) which built up the tent ‘penumbra’ in which you find the emanations, Roe, which started out with the first trimester, but has become a sacrament that Moloch would envy.
narciso (732bc0) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:33 amMark, don’t get me started on what the communists under ANC and moslems did to South Africa.
Hoagie, as each year goes by, I become more and more aware of just how crucial it is that any populace anywhere in the world — regardless of nationality, race, ethnicity, religion, gender, sexuality, shoe size, eye color, hair style — at least be good judges of the good and bad in their fellow humans (politicians and otherwise), and socio-economic situations, concepts and policies. So many people are surprisingly and pathetically lacking in that department, rooted in the reality that many humans start off early in life buying into the siren song of liberalism and then either moving rightward as they grow older and see the world (and reality) as it really is, or, sadly, remaining beholden to their left-leaning impulses (eg, 54-year-old Barack Obama).
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:34 amwell the ANC was much like the NAACP initially, it was the National Party’s move in 48, and the subsequent laws passed by them, to militancy under ‘the Spear of the Nation’, they might have gone there anyways,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:38 amHoagie, are you telling me there are different kinds of Koreans? Like wow, man, I didn’t know that.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:47 amhttps://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182
Title 8, Section 1182 of the U.S. Code
(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.
David Aitken (e0d788) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:50 amAnd what is your opinion of people who don’t believe you when you assert that Hitler was a homosexual, Mark? Or who don’t believe that the Earth is flat and that the Moon is made of green cheese?
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:52 amObama would and has.
What the hell is going on here? I’m gone for a minute and you all are claiming the government can’t regulate border security?
Talk about Trump Derangement syndrome.
Jimmy Carter banned all travel from Iran. Didn’t hiatus it. Banned it out right. Strictly enforced.
Was that illegal? Not a chance.
You want to erase the border, pay homage to the UN, make us all illegitimate orphans of the planet?
I’ll see you at the voting booth.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:02 amIn rare bipartisan vote, House passes visa-waiver bill to beef up travel restrictions
In the aftermath of terrorist attacks in San Bernardino and Paris, the House moved Tuesday to restrict travel to the U.S. by passing a bill that would end visa-free entry to those who have visited Syria, Iraq, Iran or Sudan.
The legislation, shaped in part by the White House, won widespread support from both parties despite objections by some that it is not tough enough, and by others that it will impose hardships on ordinary citizens of foreign allies.
I guess it’s only wrong absurd or stupid when Trump says it.
Actually doing it, with wide bipartisan support, that’s another story.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:21 ampapertiger, nobody objects to that. We can keep out any foreigner for any reason or for no reason.
It’s Trump’s overblown bluster, where he not only seemed to say but actually said, that he’ll keep all Muslims out including U.S. citizens who leave the country that sane people object to.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:29 amThe point that I am trying to make is one you repeatedly jump over to get to your preferred conclusion.
I am not arguing that because “not all Muslims are the same we should let them all in”,
I am saying that because “not all Muslims are the same” you should not treat every individual self-identified Muslim as a despicable mass murderer.
Now, if you disagree with that statement then there is nothing more to be said.
If you will acknowledge that but raise the question, ok, so how do we take that into account, then I agree with you that unless self-identified Muslims who are supportive of our freedoms are willing to forsake the idea of sharia supplanting US government are willing not just by word but by deed to stand up for that, then it is hard to give them access to our society
As to those already here,
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:30 amWell
I would like to have a legal way to deport the Bill Ayers of the world as well.
actually his campaign manager said that, it was overbroad in application, but it moves the overton window, Wilson’s mass detentions and deportations after WW 1, of anarchists including
narciso (732bc0) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:33 amtheir leader, Emma Goldman, also falls in that category,
So sane people want Tashfeen Malik and Syed Farook to enter and/or re-enter the country and just us crazy folks want to keep these killers away from our wives and children?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:35 amThe United States is not going to exclude U.S. citizens from living in the United States because of their religion any more than Trump is going to provide every middle-aged man with a Ferrari with one of Melania’s “sisters” in the passenger seat. It’s a fantasy.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:41 amwell lets take Cruz’s idea, how feasible is that, it’s a rather large category, not even limited to one country,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:47 amOkay, MD in Philly, one more time. You say “not all moslems are the same”. Then how do we tell the difference between a moslem who wants to come here and start a day care center from the moslem who wants to come here and blow up a day care center? You see MD, maybe all moslems aren’t the same, Steve57 thinks so. Maybe all Nazi’s or commies weren’t the same, I don’t know. But I’m not will to have other Americans die to find out when all we need do is keep them out. And the Nazi’s and the commies. You only think it’s so hard and so unjust because they have you believing their Theocratic State is a religion.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:54 amYou are absolutely correct, nk. Finally, we agree. That’s why the United States as entered the Third Stage of disintegration. Soon there will be no United States because if a nation is not willing to do whatever is necessary to preserve itself it will not be preserved.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 10:59 amAnd what is your opinion of people who don’t believe you when you assert that Hitler was a homosexual,
But, nk, why does that aspect of his life bother you or is something you don’t want to believe? Becoming resentful about any negative statement that can be applied to the infamous Adolph Hitler (and that’s based on a non-PC view that “GLBT” is nothing worth admiring) is a peculiar reaction.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 11:03 amWe routinely restrict rights (e.g. travel) to classes based on commonly held principles and allegiance. The most recent precedent for this was the “=” ruling that established constitutional and institutional exclusion of politically unfavored classes. And, of course, while looking into a penumbra, the excision of one party, Posterity, to The Constitution, as a rite under the pro-choice doctrine.
n.n (e7c48d) — 12/9/2015 @ 11:06 amIt’s Trump’s overblown bluster
But what other pushback has there been — from at least a major public figure — to all the liberal nonsense or idiocy out there that promotes the ethos of “let’s tolerate everything and everyone!!! xoxoxo!!!”
Again, we’re not living in the USA of “Ozzie and Harriet,” of “Father Knows Best,” of “I Love Lucy,” — of Eisenhower’s 1950s “Operation Wetback” — but in the USA of Barack Obama, etc, etc.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 11:08 amMark, whether Hitler slept with boys, girls or his German shepherd is your obsession not mine. It is your problem, not mine, if I don’t take you seriously when you spout off crap like that. Why do you want to believe that everybody is a secret homosexual, Mark?
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 11:25 amIt is your problem, not mine
nk, it’s your problem — not mine — that you’re responding in a way that would only make sense if the statement were similar to “der fuhrer was a humanitarian in private and secretly gave away millions to the Red Cross.”
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 11:38 amRev.
MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84) — 12/9/2015 @ 11:43 amI’m sorry you keep jumping over my point and assume things I never said or believe.
Your characterization of my opinion is not accurate.
But I have a few real time crises at the moment and am signing off .
He didn’t say that. The media extrapolated their own formulation to create another nothing burger anti Trump round of propaganda.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:32 pmI’m sorry too, MD. I don’t mean to miss or assume things. I can be dense at times I must be missing your point somehow. I am going out for dinner so we’ll go again later. Sorry again and I hoe your crises is fixable.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:42 pmI believe you, but don’t tell me that Trump doesn’t welcome and in fact revel in such “misunderstandings” because it keeps people talking about Him(!).
And since Mark brought up the little Austrian (who was not gay but could have been from Detroit), a lot of people back then, including Jews who actually supported him in his “struggle”, shrugged off the dwarf’s mouthings as mere rhetoric and political brinkmanship.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:44 pmNotice how there isn’t any citizen, non citizen, qualifier on that bill?
You’re busting Trump in the chops, and going along with the herd who suck up the democrat’s media pablum, for something the congress did wholeheartedly, restricting the movement of US citizens.
That’s beyond what Trump proposed.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:47 pmErr … that was for 38 countries whose citizens do not need a visa — only their passport — to visit the United States. There is no such thing as a U.S.-issued visa for U.S. citizens to enter the United States.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:55 pmDo citizens need visas to return home? I haven’t traveled abroad in years but I think only foreign travelers have to get visas to come to the US, although travelers from some countries (like the UK and France) can get visa waivers. It’s my understanding that the bill would also eliminate visa waivers and require that travelers from all foreign countries get visas.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:57 pmSorry. Cross-posted with nk.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 12:57 pmI guess it is Constitutional and Lawful.
#ohwell
Rodney King's Spirit (2b29eb) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:08 pmI only pretend to know everything. Sue me.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:09 pmLook if 20% of Mooslems are Sharia Lovers …… I get that 80% are not but ….
20% of 1,000 immigrants = 200
20% of 100,000 immigrants = 20,000
20% of 1,000,000 immigrants = 200,000
So I am 100% for denying 800,000 good muslim people entry if it means denying 200,000 muslim scum bags too.
Rodney King's Spirit (2b29eb) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:11 pmIt confuses me, too, papertiger. What I like is that Trump is pushing the discussion to the right the way Obama did to the left. It’s refreshing.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:17 pmI object to your use of facts in dismember my bluster.
No. That’s not quite right.
I strongly object to your use of facts in dismembering my bluster.
Yep.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:18 pmYou people who think you know everything really annoy the rest of us who do.
nk (dbc370) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:22 pmHeh. This is starting to remind me of The Three Stooges, and I include myself in that. I’ll be Curly.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:32 pmOr Larry. Which one had the curly hair?
DRJ (15874d) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:33 pmLarry.
felipe (56556d) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:36 pmNothing to do with the current topic thread but—
Re the 2006 “omnibus denouncing” by our host: I chased the link and in reading the comments there noticed that not a single “nom de guerre” appearing there appears in comments to posts today. Either there has been a full restaffing of the commenter brigade or everyone has taken on new identities.
I return you now to your scheduled programming…
Gramps (bc022b) — 12/9/2015 @ 1:41 pmPeanuts Carter in the 70’s banned all iranians to the U.S.A. except if they were helping the U.S.A.
mg (31009b) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:03 pm#104 When Democrats go to War it is OK.
So the corollary here is when Democrat ban immigrants it is OK too.
.
.
.
.
Now Trump or Bush — they are misogynist racist bigot homophobic war mongers.
Rodney King's Spirit (2b29eb) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:42 pmAnd since Mark brought up the little Austrian (who was not gay…
nk, yep. Germany’s most infamous public figure wasn’t gay (a slang word that doesn’t really predate the past several decades, certainly as long ago as the 1930s-40s). He was homosexual.
Not accepting that aspect of Hitler — based on fairly well-sourced material (there was an excellent lengthy documentary about the subject posted to Youtube earlier this year, but which has since been taken down, likely due to copyright issues) — is puzzling. It’s sort of like dealing with a person’s Rorschach test.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:45 pm#106 So Hitler liked dick? Do I get this right? Top or bottom?
Rodney King's Spirit (2b29eb) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:49 pmWhat I like is that Trump is pushing the discussion to the right the way Obama did to the left. It’s refreshing.
Exactly. I don’t mind people slagging on Trump for his liberal comments or reactions through the years, for his history of being philosophically far too similar to a typical New York “limousine liberal.” But to get all hot and bothered over his being, in essence, the flip side of a million tons of politically correct Nidal-Hasan-istic idiocy floating around out there is a whole different matter.
He does deserve a lashing, however, for stating after the 2012 election that Romney’s non-touchy-feely comments about illegal immigration weren’t helpful to the Republican Party. IOW, slam him for his liberal biases, not for anything that reflects glints of his right-leaning common sense.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 2:54 pmI like bluff and bluster. It’s gentility, in all its smarmy disingenuity, that rubs me wrong.
ThOR (a52560) — 12/9/2015 @ 3:16 pmI give the establishment republicans and their flock all the credit in the world for coming clean with their up front agreement with president petulant on allowing infidel killing thugs to enter our country.
mg (31009b) — 12/9/2015 @ 3:30 pm#107, guffaws aside, the documentary on Hitler contained, among other things, very detailed research on his romantic relationship with another male during Hitler’s college or post-college years. If that film weren’t so well done and thoroughly researched, I might have dismissed it as the work of National-Enquirer-type hucksters. Of course, what seals the deal even further was not just so much material like that, but the fact Hitler was so maniacally two-faced he could murder millions of Jews, and others, on one hand, and yet impose animal-rights legislation on the other.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/9/2015 @ 3:32 pmIf the White House can disqualify my guy over a party foul, then I’m due a mulligan.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/9/2015 @ 4:53 pmRepublicans suck.
mg (31009b) — 12/9/2015 @ 9:25 pmhttp://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/12/09/tripwire-alert-gope-signals-intent-to-use-mississippi-strategy-against-trump-after-trumps-primary-victory/#more-109571
Cruz/West
Republicans and democrats all wrapped for betrayal.
mg (31009b) — 12/10/2015 @ 3:16 amhttp://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/261074/whos-crazy-one-david-horowitz
Arriving any day. Stupid republicans.
mg (31009b) — 12/10/2015 @ 3:48 amhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal
Cool, hip, and rino – todays dummies.
mg (31009b) — 12/10/2015 @ 3:51 amJust a thought:
I’m having my morning coffee and watching FOX NEWS at 7:15a EST when Carly Fiorina was asked if she ‘would separate from the GOPe and run as a 3rd party candidate if you feel as though they aren’t behind you?’
She ducked the question and went immediately into spin mode.
I put on the mute, picked up my coffee and walked out on the lanai disgusted at Fiorina’s cowardice and disgusted at FOX’s friends for letting her get away with it. There should have been an immediate follow up along the lines of ‘yes, that’s all well and good, Ms Fiorina, but you failed to respond to the question you were asked. So, here it is again…
That didn’t happen. So, what can I do about it? The same thing I already did. When a candidate ducks a direct question I”ll mute or change channels. I’m not going to listen to mealy mouthed circumlocutions from people who want my vote. They can step up and answer reasonable questions or I won’t listen to a word they say.
ropelight (20fd51) — 12/10/2015 @ 4:37 am#106 So Hitler liked dick? Do I get this right? Top or bottom?
Hitler never talked to me about it, but Mark does all the time; it seems to be all he can think about.
nk (dbc370) — 12/10/2015 @ 5:30 amhitler is kinda old news i think
check out this Merkel babe though
she’s hoochie of the year kinda like how diesel volkswagens are the car of the year i think
happyfeet (831175) — 12/10/2015 @ 5:34 amBeside the Republicans (even here) having Trump Derangement Syndrome Obama is:
http://s3.legalinsurrection.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/O-Casino-600-LI-238×170.jpg
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 12/10/2015 @ 6:34 amHitler never talked to me about it, but Mark does all the time; it seems to be all he can think about.
nk, you still haven’t explained why you’re bothered by or peculiarly disbelieving of the evidence that Hitler was homosexual.
Republicans suck.
I’m guessing that plenty of such people are generally ideologically untethered, perhaps squish-squish-squishy, the type more likely to sputter (on the DC-NY-Boston cocktail circuit, for example), “shhh, please don’t talk about his/her political biases! That’s rude and far too personal!”
Mark (f713e4) — 12/10/2015 @ 7:31 amnk is not bothered by it at al. He has already made that clear. Get teh stupid out of your ears, you will “hear” mo’ better. You are becoming tiresome even to those who are disinterested in your comments.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 12/10/2015 @ 8:08 amSorry, felipe, but your take on the matter is goddamn wrong. nk has continued to say that Germany’s friendly butcher was not homosexual.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/10/2015 @ 10:04 amI will never believe even the lousiest of the major Republican candidates (including the truly crummy Jeb Bush) would ever be as bad as, or as scary as, or scarier than, Hillary.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/10/2015 @ 10:10 amDon’t believe a word of the media’s spin. Trump’s support is both wide and deep among Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. Attempts to claim otherwise are outright lies. And you can take that to the bank.
ropelight (20fd51) — 12/10/2015 @ 10:24 amI find the topic of Hitler’s sexual orientation roughly equal to watching youtube video of old people with their dentures out tongue kissing.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/10/2015 @ 4:04 pmI haven’t mentioned the man’s name in a post since Thanksgiving.
So calm down.
And if you don’t like what you read here, nobody is holding a gun to your head.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/10/2015 @ 10:05 pmPatterico, I originally thought your “good man” comments about Obama had been penned, for one thing, a good time (meaning at least around 2 to 3 months) after he had won the election. But most crucially, I wrongly recalled your comments about him having been far more limited in scope and context, meaning they did not go much beyond a brief “yea, he seems to be a good guy” and had been buried somewhere in the middle of a thread where I assumed (or vaguely remembered—incorrectly as it turns out) that the excoriation of Barry had gotten so out of hand that you felt the need to step in, if only out of pity towards the guy.
In turn, I’ve had this vague sense during the past few months that your comments about Trump have been perhaps more withering — more disdainful — than your comments were about Barry well before November 2008.
I see the following and the sound effect that keeps coming to mind is that of a vinyl record being loudly scratched.
^ I definitely don’t recall your ever using the word “patriot” to describe Jeremiah Wright’s buddy. That’s why I have to wonder that if you can lay it on too thick in that one direction, you may just as likely lay it on too thick in the opposite direction when it comes to Trump.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/10/2015 @ 11:22 pmThe thing that is going without remark is Hillary Clinton’s reaction to the whole thing. Is she painting herself as the Muslims of the world’s advocate now?
I remember Senator Clinton leading (or at least jumping out in front of) the push to bar Muslim operation of American ports with great enthusiasm.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/10/2015 @ 11:49 pmIt would be interesting juxtaposing Hillary’s position then versus now.
I for one am very tired of people bringing up P’s original thinking that the one was “a good man”.
At least he has had the good sense to long ago see that was a mistake,
unlike so many out there who should know better.
Now, in the context of saying he misjudged Obama, so perhaps he is misjudging Trump,
I guess it is a valid and pertinent point.
I have no idea how things are going to play out,
I do not trust Trump to be a good president,
though I think it is in his DNA to be pro-US, which is a welcome change
Whether Obama or Trump, we have a fast-talking salesman who says things some people like to hear without much evidence of substance behind it (but that seems to be what politics largely is);
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:07 amwhether a serious candidate with substance can articulate seriousness in a “winsome” way that can catch fire or not we will see.
I’m thinking Scott Adams has this whole thing sussed… http://blog.dilbert.com/post/134922324241/the-trump-immigration-surprise-the-trap-is
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:25 amMark, I have addressed this many, many, many times — far more than the significance of the original comment warrants. But I will briefly address it again.
First, let me repeat I have said many times since that based on his actions as President I believe Obama to be personally repellant as well as flawed in his viewpoint. I recommend this 2010 post to you as a start. The damning record he has as President, with his contempt for the separation of powers and the Constitution, together with his smarmy, hectoring attitude, has wholly transformed how I see him as a person. He has started wars and killed people without Congressional approval. He has usurped Americans’ liberty to a previously unknown extent. His record is that of a power-grabbing narcissist.
Now let’s go to what I actually said in 2008, the day after Obama was elected, and put it in context. Because I have seen people like you take the quote out of context and repeat it, literally hundreds and likely (without exaggeration) thousands of times, having the net effect for low-information readers of creating an image of Patterico as the guy who loved him some Obama.
I spent the 2008 election decrying the dangers of an Obama presidency, and breaking numerous original stories about him. I wrote about Rev. Wright, and Bill Ayers, and Obama’s lies. In the very post that you just quoted from, I acknowledged that Obama had engaged in bad behavior. I said it was clear that he would “damage this country with bad policies” and “do horrible things.”
And the original post that you and others have repeatedly ripped one line from and repeat again and again and again and again? It was titled “Lauren Learns About Politics.” Do you know who Lauren is? I bet you don’t, because you have never once acknowledged the context in which the comment was originally made. Lauren is my daughter. She was eight years old at the time. I described the manner in which I had taught her about politics, leaving her free to make up her own mind but educating her.
Now. I have obviously had seven years to reconsider my assessment of Obama based upon his behavior in office. I contend that the things he has done in office are far worse than anything he ever did as a candidate, and that his record justifies a full-scale condemnation, not just of his policies (which I have always condemned with all my heart and soul) but his personal character (which in 2008 I believed to be flawed but not much worse than any other ambitious cretin who runs for high office).
I know many will say they knew exactly what kind of a person Obama was because of Rev. Wright or some other bad conduct he engaged in before office. Now again: let’s recall the context. I criticized Obama for many things before he was elected: Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, and numerous lies. People who read my blog at the time remember that and know that any suggestion that I was some kind of Obama fan represents a serious rewriting of history. Yes, there are those who can proudly say today that they never gave Obama the benefit of the doubt regarding his character. Of course, virtually every one of these people, I guarantee you, will say the same thing about every Democrat candidate until the day they die. That doesn’t mean they’re wrong, and I obviously must concede that I have revised my opinion of the man’s character.
However, when I consider this issue I recall a phone conversation I had a year ago or so with a reasonably well-known right-wing pundit. He cheerfully conceded to me that his shtick was you’re not going to get to the right of him on ANYTHING. It’s not to say that he doesn’t necessarily believe what he says, I hasten to add, but when you read him you have to remember that he has a public persona and he will always stick with it. It’s a type, and you see that type throughout right-wing media. It attracts people like you, Mark, and brings eyeballs to those people’s blogs. Which, again, is not to question those people’s sincerity — but it does cause me to take what they say with a grain of salt when they tell you that THIS PARTICULAR DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE IS THE WORST PERSON EVER AND THE MOST DANGEROUS CANDIDATE EVER. They will always say that, every election cycle, as long as they live.
That’s not my “shtick.” My shtick is just saying what I think. And in 2008 I thought Obama had done a lot of bad stuff, but was pretty much your typical scumbag politician in that regard, and so, for the benefit of a lecture to my eight-year-old daughter, I was willing to concede (at the time) that his intentions were good and that what we should worry about instead were his destructive policies.
Oh my, what an Obama lover I was! *eye roll*
I’d like to close this fairly long comment with an observation about the extent to which someone’s character matters. My general feeling has always been that I am far more concerned with destructive policies than I am with the candidate’s bad character. I recognize most voters don’t share that mindset, and that it is far more fun to talk about personalities than the destruction that suffocating government overreach has on the public. But that is my basic general feeling.
What Trump has brought to the fore in my mind is that character is important when it comes to how candidates will implement what they say they will implement. I never thought this was very important for Obama. Was he a liar? Of course. Was he the WORST LIAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD or just a typical lying politician, albeit one who lied more than the average one? (This is essentially the big debate that you keep bringing up time and time again, because when I called him a “good man” it was caveated because I was basically saying yes, he’s a liar and he has hung out with unsavory people but that’s what politicians do.) I never much cared about this debate in the context of Obama because I knew he was telling the truth about wanting to carry out his horrible policies. And I was right. And he has.
But with Trump, character matters. Because he says some great stuff about what his attitude will be on things like immigration. But to me he is a carnival huckster. I don’t believe him for one second when he says these things. And so yes, character does matter to that extent.
This is really far more than the issue deserves, and a huge waste of my time. But I have said my piece — perhaps imperfectly, but fundamentally I have said what I wanted to say.
Again.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:49 amMark is a weird kid. A “There but for the Grace of God go I” weird kid. Criticism from him is an affirmation that you are a normal person.
nk (dbc370) — 12/11/2015 @ 8:05 amPat, at the time I recall commenting to the effect that we should not preemptively pronounce Barack Obama a good man. I was convinced he wasn’t. But I don’t keep bringing it up. What am I, your mother-in-law?
Everybody has the right to be wrong. I’m a free speech absolutist. When I profess my belief in free speech, I don’t qualify my statements with a single “but.” Everybody has the right to say things that I am convinced are absolutely wrong. And Lord knows I haven’t been right about everything. If I was right about everything I’d be living in idle luxury off the proceeds of the horses I was sure would be winners.
But getting back to Trump, and his voters, which I believe to be the subject of today and not who was right about Barack Obama and when, I think we’re playing with fire if we insult them. I understand why voters are attracted to him. I feel the pull myself. I don’t give into it. He doesn’t repel me, but like you I don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth. I’m all in for Cruz, and one of the things I like and respect about Cruz is that he won’t go in for the ritual denunciation because IMHO he recognizes that Trump voters aren’t bad people. They’re frustrated people who are sick and tired of electing phonies who aren’t who they said they were when they were running. They’re wrong about Trump, who is playing them, but these voters deserve to be treated with respect. Their concerns are valid.
Steve57 (a13395) — 12/11/2015 @ 9:21 amGet a grip, people. Patterico wasn’t wrong to tell his 8-year-old daughter not to worry because the newly elected President is a good man.
Do you tell your little kids or grandkids that they could be killed by a deadly disease or a car wreck at any time? Of course not, even though it’s true. Opinions are complicated but that doesn’t mean little kids need to hear the details.
DRJ (15874d) — 12/11/2015 @ 9:59 amDRJ, I think I have a pretty good grip. I don’t believe I made a huge deal out of it at the time. I know I haven’t made much of what I believed to be a throwaway comment since.
What I am arguing is that we should extend similar tolerance to Trump voters.
Steve57 (a13395) — 12/11/2015 @ 10:03 amI’m thinking of getting a tramp stamp of Trump on my rump. A Trump stamp?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 12/11/2015 @ 10:42 am(which in 2008 I believed to be flawed but not much worse than any other ambitious cretin who runs for high office).
Patterico, the ironic thing was I don’t recall being as annoyed by your characterization of Obama back in 2008 as some of the other posters to this site were. I just recall the “good man” comments but certainly don’t recall the use of the word “patriot.” Also, I don’t believe I even made an effort to write a rebuttal in the threads where this was being discussed 7 years ago. I sort of shrugged the whole thing off. Maybe even I wasn’t as disgusted by Obama at that time as I have since become.
After going to your link, I now do recall your blog entry about the “good man” comments being related to the remarks of your daughter, thinking yesterday that you had probably been responding to very cutting words aimed at Obama in these threads after the election.
You haven’t concealed your disdain of Trump over the past several months, and I admit to not recalling exactly how contemptuous you were towards Obama well before November 2008. I will say that if Trump enters the Oval Office in 2016, and your gut instinct when labeling him a “good man” and a “patriot” comes with fervor that is no less than what you gave Obama, I’ll have a better sense of how much of your reaction towards these two people is visceral instead of ideological, or visa versa.
Personally, I have never cared for any facet of Obama, whether it is his ideology, life history or supposed “winning smile.”
Mark (74fce8) — 12/11/2015 @ 1:09 pmI should add that I don’t agree with your “not much worse than…” comment because that is a form of ideological relativism or moral equivalency, if you will, in which an attempt is made to offset the truly cruddy, disreputable nature of a thing or person (in this case, Obama) when compared with something or someone else.
Mark (74fce8) — 12/11/2015 @ 1:15 pmMark,
I also meant to say this morning that the whole discussion of whether a candidate is a good guy or not, to me, feeds into this absurd cult of personality we have created around the President. A pack of reporters follows him around and tweets out his every remark and move. They write endless think pieces about his “legacy.” We are subjected to his summer reading lists, his culinary likes and dislikes, and even (God help us) his Final Four picks. We act quite a bit like a people that misses its monarchical British roots. We seem to need a secular Hero that we can worship.
And so, when a giant blowhard comes around beating his chest about how great he is, the cultists eagerly line up behind him. It’s not surprising given the increasingly sheeplike reverence the populace apparently feels for the Great Leader — at least when their guy is in office.
With this quasi-religious veneration bestowed upon a single man in government has, coincidentally (?) come a vast increase in his powers, to an extent that would have frightened the Founders. The President now can commit America to war without even so much as the pretense of consulting Congress. He fashions his own policies about who may enter our country, when statutory deadlines for a law affecting 1/7 of our economy will actually take effect, and (sooner or later) will decide on his or her own what firearms we may possess. The hysteria we hear every four years that THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION IN HISTORY is starting to have some truth, because it matters, far too much, whether the guy in the Oval Office is on your side or not. This means that people on your own side who are flawed must be deified and people on the other side who are not entirely bad must be portrayed as the very incarnation of Satan himself.
These are the kind of thoughts I had in mind in 2008. If anything, the main thing I have learned about Obama’s personality since then is that, contrary to what I thought at the time, he really is just in it for himself. I thought he was sincere in his beliefs and just very misguided, but I now believe he just wanted to be the center of attention and have an easy, wealthy life after office. The main change in my view is that I don’t really think he cares as much about policy as I thought he did; rather, he just cares about himself.
But really, who gives a f**k how sincere he is anyway? Well, you do, because the goodness of his character is something very, very, very important to you. To me, it’s just not.
Trump, likewise, is just in this for himself. He is far more transparent about that. He’s not for limited government. He’s not consistently for ANY principle except the principle of What Is Best for Donald Trump. He is a clown and a blowhard and does not deserve one iota of my respect, nor will he get it. Nor will he get my vote, under any circumstances. Nor will Hillary. If it’s the two of them, I will write in Ted Cruz and blog about limited government, but I will not advocate the man’s candidacy and I will continue to warn people about what they are getting themselves into.
I doubt it will come to that, though, frankly. I think most of his supporters — not all, but most — are just low-information voters who are fundamentally ignorant of the issues and even the candidates. They just want to support a winner. If Cruz wins Iowa, the herd will flock to him.
IMO. I could be wrong.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:23 pmOh, I know. You just heard “good man” repeated a few hundred times and you got brainwashed. Good man good man good man. You’re not alone, trust me. Frankly? I don’t blog for people like you.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:25 pmMark,
Here’s a 2008 post that you can read as an example of how I felt about Obama around then.
Now: if you say “if you thought he was a liar then how come you said he was a good man” then I may have to track you down and feed you into a woodchipper.* First, I will tie you down to a stake, and read aloud every word of every comment from this thread, and scream after every paragraph: “I’M READING IT TO YOU NOW BECAUSE YOU CLEARLY DIDN’T READ IT THE FIRST TIME.”
Then, the woodchipper.
But I know it won’t come to that, right? You’re better than that, right? So just click the link and rise above the brainwashing you have allowed yourself to be subjected to, and see what kinds of things I was saying about Obama in 2008.
*Note to U.S. Attorneys: this is a joke.
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:34 pmI respectfully suggest getting over yourselves.
Steve57 (a13395) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:35 pmyes those who ‘choose poorly’ re Obama, really don’t have an excuse, not a few, like Applebaum, MacDonald, Noonan, the Crittendens, were blinded by class and credentialism, some turned out to be rank crackpots like that Pepperdine dean who ended up in Malta,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:36 pmromney’s a good man but alas he is not mainstream he’s a weirdo
he looks like his breath smells like ivory soap
FREAK
happyfeet (831175) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:44 pmTo the extent that is directed at me, I not so respectfully suggest that you imagine what it is like to have a single comment of yours ripped from its context and used against you thousands of times, over the course of seven years and counting, to smear you and misrepresent your views.
I have long since given up fighting about it in other venues, but I will not have it done here without a response.
But surely that was not directed at me, right?
Patterico (86c8ed) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:45 pmit took nearly ten years to get rid of the Kirshner, the Venezuelans have made progress after 16 long years, results to be determined, the Populares were able to defeat Zapatero, and are in line to retain the prime minister, with the Ciudadadanos ‘tea party’ like, in second place,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:51 pmthe original comment had a certain whiff of ostentatiousness about it
ostentatious graciousness maybe?
I was there
it was a weird freaking moment in history
anyone remember that freaky-weird obamalust pseudo-ad monstrosity the Pepsifag Co begifted the commuters on the 405?
and I remember a sleazy piece of Los Angeles municipal parking cop trash deciding not to give a ticket to an unattended car in a loading zone when he saw the sticker what marker the driver as a devout obamaslut
there was a LOT of over the top nauseating stuff what attended food stamp’s coronation
my company booked an auditorium where we could all go watch the nasty p.o.s. get sworn in
no thank you I said I have a call
(i didn’t really have a call i lied)
but nobody back then imagined just what a dumpster c-word obama was, though some of us knew for certain he was a dirty socialist whore
yeah
you know who you are
happyfeet (831175) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:54 pmwhat *markered* the driver as a devout obamaslut i mean
happyfeet (831175) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:55 pmit always strikes me the obama followers driving SUV’s and Hummers, there is irony there that could open a singularity,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/11/2015 @ 5:56 pmRepublican presidential candidates decry what they call a “war on faith.” Religious conservatives say they face anti-Christian bigotry. But the rise of anti-Muslim sentiment reveals a double standard.
this is teasing a story on the front of the national soros radio website
this is teasing a story on the front of the national soros radio website RIGHT NOW
happyfeet (831175) — 12/11/2015 @ 6:08 pmsoros radio is like a radish cupcake, why even bother,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/11/2015 @ 6:10 pmThey only see the double standard on the Right? Not theirs?
I know, I know, silly question. The other day I stopped behind a Smart (car) at light. Lemon yellow. With a Coexist bumper sticker. Which was fine as far as it goes. But. It had a personalized license plate. The (I presume) owner’s name. Yup, that’s the left. They do the correct things and think the correct things, and they want you to notice that it’s them that’s doing it.
nk (dbc370) — 12/11/2015 @ 6:46 pmI know the irony is crunchy, there is one religion where it is ok, practically mandatory to be familiar with it’s proverbs, and customs, and one is entirely verboten from public expression,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/11/2015 @ 6:50 pm@146, to the degree you can drop it, no, I directed nothing your way.
Steve57 (a13395) — 12/11/2015 @ 6:53 pmclearly it was mmean for the fellow with gay hitler fixation, in detroit,
narciso (732bc0) — 12/11/2015 @ 6:54 pmLook, you win, OK? Mark loses.
Steve57 (a13395) — 12/11/2015 @ 6:56 pmI just lost a bet to a stripper in El Paso.
Steve57 (a13395) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:04 pmMy wife and I went to an open house tonight at the Islamic Center of Fredericksburg, VA. There is a controversy about a plan to build a new mosque which I assume is why they had it. We talked to some of the members. We handed out some flyers to several people about the Christmas concert our church is having Sunday night. One man I got into a conversation with said he’ll try to make it. He was an Eagle Scout and his son is in the Cub Scouts. His son’s Pinewood Derby car won their pack.
I definitely don’t get the feeling this is a radical mosque. There’s one in northern VA that does seem to fit that description.
Gerald A (949d7d) — 12/11/2015 @ 7:57 pmI thought he was sincere in his beliefs and just very misguided, but I now believe he just wanted to be the center of attention and have an easy, wealthy life after office. The main change in my view is that I don’t really think he cares as much about policy as I thought he did; rather, he just cares about himself.
Patterico, I guess I’m far more suspicious or disdainful of anyone who has the ultra-liberal predilections and life history that have hovered over Obama since he was a kid. Yea, I know that wonderful people can be very leftwing, but I’m nonetheless always leery of them. Leery of them in the same way I’m always suspicious of people whose judgment and sentiments are so twisted that, for example, they’re the ones who several years ago ran up to OJ Simpson (well after his infamous murder trial had been held), hug him and insist their photo be taken with him.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/11/2015 @ 10:12 pmHey Mark,
The best thing to do when someone starts coming around to your perspective is to mock them for starting out further away from your perspective than they were. It provides a stellar example of how magnanimous you are and makes them want to be more like you.
John Hitchcock (5e7b8a) — 12/11/2015 @ 10:16 pmI think most of his supporters — not all, but most — are just low-information voters who are fundamentally ignorant of the issues and even the candidates.
Studies have been done that have concluded a larger percentage of left-leaning or Democrat-registered people are more likely to be ignorant of issues and, in effect, fools about hard-core reality. Although a percentage of conservatives or Republicans are not immune to that, those same surveys have revealed that, by contrast, a larger number of right-leaning people are better informed about socio-political matters.
If you wave off a good portion of Trump supporters as being low-information-type people, then, in turn, you have to wave off a good portion of Hillary supporters as being borderline (and, yep, this word isn’t touchy-feely) retarded.
Mark (f713e4) — 12/11/2015 @ 10:25 pmPicked up on my phone in Houston
Everybody answered, everybody answered but they won’t say why
Then this dancer grabbed me down by the bus stop
And she said I’m takin’ you with me to the Texas Rose cafe
I got a fast car, it’s a jaguar, and I’ll get you to the plane on time
Drinkin’ Lone Star, play guitar, we’ll have a real good time
I said love to be found in Austin,
Love to be found in Austin town,
I replied that I would try, but you see my time is not my own
‘Cause when I was just a big time low ball fool
My friend Leroy came to me
He said look out your window
Does the first man you see look like me?
I’m sooooore displeased
Since that time I changed my mind
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/11/2015 @ 11:16 pmAbout the things I’m up to
Yet the things around me stay just the same
‘Cause outside my hotel window is a sign that turns from red to green
It says chop suey and join the U.S. Marines