Patterico's Pontifications

11/12/2015

Christian Workers Fired From Childcare Center

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:35 am



[guest post by Dana]

The inevitable continues to happen: two Christian women who worked at a childcare center in Texas were fired for refusing to address a 6 year old transgender student by her newly assigned name, as well as refusing to teach children about transgenderism. The student in question had attended the school for four months as a girl, went home on a Friday, and returned Monday morning as a boy. As a result, Madeline Kirksey and Akesha Bogany Wyatt have filed a discrimination suit against Children’s Lighthouse Learning Center in Katy, Texas.

According to Kirksey’s lawyer, Adam Taylor:

[T]he child’s hair had been cut into a masculine style, and the formerly female student had been given a more classically masculine name.

Teachers gave out leaflets on ‘how to handle transgender students’, encouraging staff to advocate for the child, to help educate other students about transgender issues, and to ‘defend their dignity’.

However, Kirksey and Wyatt refused to go along with the name change, and said they felt uncomfortable speaking to other young children about transgender issues.

Kirksey added that she feels the male parents of the student are forcing the issue of gender on to their child, which she disagrees with.

Speaking to Fox News, she added: ‘I don’t think we should be talking to other people’s children who are under the age of 18 about being transgender.’

Kirksey and Wyatt, who is thought to broadly agree with her point of view, were fired shortly afterwards.

Taylor also claims that his client’s Christian beliefs were violated and plans on filing a filing a lawsuit with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

Wyatt’s lawyer claims:

‘My client’s sincere religious beliefs have been violated because she took a stand to protect the girl from being harassed and discriminated against.

‘She is now out of work for defending her faith and standing up for the innocence of children, and for believing that it is the role of parents to decide whether children should be educated about transgender issues.’

Of note: Adam Taylor is responsible for getting the controversial ‘bathroom bill’ put before voters in Texas, which was soundly defeated a week ago.

–Dana

194 Responses to “Christian Workers Fired From Childcare Center”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. Well, no. These ladies are dead wrong and since they didn’t quit they should have been fired. It’s none of their business and the kid does not need the grief of being told one thing at home and another at the daycare. As for their Christian beliefs, that’s also 100% the parents’ prerogative and the babysitters should keep their religion, whatever it may be, away from other people’s kids.

    Which is an entirely matter from whether the “parents” are fit to have children in the first place.

    nk (dbc370)

  3. I forgot to thank DRJ for the link.

    Dana (86e864)

  4. The Onion strikes again?

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  5. The so-called parents of this little girl need to be arrested for child abuse. Trying to
    force a small child to change sex without the slightest medical evidence is criminal. Note from the story that the “parents” are homosexual males.

    Bar Sinister (c62a89)

  6. It’s s simple solution requiring no lawsuits.

    The people running the center can decide whether they want to keep these employees, and/or whether they want to institute policies about how the children should be treated.

    If the employees don’t like the policies they can leave or be fired.

    If the parents don’t like the policies they can stop sending the child to the center.

    Anyone involving lawyers, on either side, should be . . . fill in the blank.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  7. For an additional comment: The school has failed to report child abuse instead of firing
    the two teachers,

    Bar Sinister (c62a89)

  8. This story also reinforces people’s worst fears about gay parents.

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  9. I cannot think of any better example of “the inmates are running the asylum” than asking adults to cater to the whims if six year olds.

    Hey, kids, the world isn’t there to cater to your fantasies. People are going to disagree with you. You can learn this now, or learn it as a college kid at Mizzou, when the entire nation thinks you are a fool.

    bridget (af6e0d)

  10. That’s a matter for the parents, not the babysitters. The babysitters do what the parents tell them, or both sides exercise their options as set out by Patterico above.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. Well, no. These ladies are dead wrong and since they didn’t quit they should have been fired. It’s none of their business and the kid does not need the grief of being told one thing at home and another at the daycare. As for their Christian beliefs, that’s also 100% the parents’ prerogative and the babysitters should keep their religion, whatever it may be, away from other people’s kids.

    Which is an entirely matter from whether the “parents” are fit to have children in the first place.

    nk (dbc370) — 11/12/2015 @ 6:49 am

    So if a child has a pet rat and the parents tell him it’s a cat, the ladies should go along with it?

    Lying and intentionally confusing the child is wrong. It does not help the child. It will cause further harm to the child. Why do you support doing so?

    And lying about the pet isn’t nearly as harmful as lying to the child about herself. The parents want to permanently damage her.

    NJRob (a07d2e)

  12. Why am I getting bad vibes about pedophile at the child’s home?

    seeRpea (dfa150)

  13. Babysitters should provide care and teach basic courtesy, but parents should teach values. IMO this daycare is forcing its caregivers to indoctrinate a group of very young children with one family’s values, all to avoid a lawsuit by the family with a transgender child.

    Why should the caregivers be forced to recognize the child has changed genders? If a child came to daycare wanting to be Superman or Supergirl, is it now a firing offense to not play along? Young children need stability. It’s fine if one family wants to accommodate their child’s needs or desires, but forcing the others to comply at such a young age is not good for their psyches or their very limited understanding of gender roles.

    There’s one other thing that bothers me about this story. Put aside concerns for the transgender child, the other children, the fired daycare workers, and the daycare owner who is caught between competing legal claims. As the parent of an autistic child, I think this is doing to daycare what has already happened in our schools with special needs children. Specifically, everyone must accommodate the special needs child. Teachers and daycare workers have become unofficial medical and psychological service providers who diagnose and treat complicated conditions. These are the least qualified people in our society to deal with this problems, but they are on the front line and (increasingly) the only people who see and deal with any kind of child with special needs. That is not good.

    DRJ (15874d)

  14. i don’t like tranny children

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  15. don’t they just seem kinda squirrely

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  16. None of this is the kid’s fault. It’s the fault of a society which is forfeiting — maybe has already forfeited — its right to exist.

    nk (dbc370)

  17. i’m not blaming the kid I just think he coulda waited til after red cup seaqson to get all trannied up

    it’s hard enough to shop for normal children

    i’m so glad I don’t have any tranny ones on my list

    ordering this for the lil pickleheads what are coming to visit

    kids are so fun

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  18. *season* i mean

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  19. From what little I know about the law, it seems to me these 2 workers have no place to protest.
    I would think the proper thing is for the two to quit and let people now about the policies of this facility, and let parents decide where they want to put their children.

    I think this is different than forcing a business owner to provide a service for an activity they disagree with,
    and different than ordering a government employee to violate their beliefs when a reasonable accommodation can be made (easily, at that, if not for making political statements).

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  20. I do believe what is being done is misguided and harmful.
    But I am more concerned when this kind of behavior (enabling a child too young to know anything) is forced upon people and those that disagree are harassed out of business and out of professions.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  21. Texas is an at will employment State, which means employees can be fired for any legitimate reason. They cannot be fired for unlawful reasons, e.g., fired because of their race, ethnicity, religion, etc.

    In this case, I assume the fired employees are claiming they were fired for refusing to violate their religious beliefs. Under Texas law, they have the right to an accommodation based on religious beliefs if they can show these are sincerely held religious beliefs and that there is an appropriate way in the workplace to accommodate their beliefs. I don’t know if they can show that but that will one issue in the lawsuit.

    DRJ (15874d)

  22. Does the day care center have the right to turn away a child because the parents are foisting the whole transgendered issue upon him or her? Can they legitimately say, “We think this will cause confusion with the other children and be an unnecessary distraction with our staff” without violating anybody’s rights? My solution in this case would be that the two workers find work at a center that wouldn’t recognize transgenderism in a six-year-old.

    JVW (738b08)

  23. Living far from the Lone Star State, I find comfort in thinking that it still provides an island of sanity in a not-so-sane world. This doesn’t help.

    But why should lawfare be a one-way street? For the right, lawyering up has always been a last resort and we have paid a price for that. Here, especially, in a case that involves religious liberty and accommodation – if this were a pair of Muslim employees, the roles would be recast, wouldn’t they? – fighting fire with fire is the right move. What’s good for the goose . . .

    ThOR (a52560)

  24. And here we thought the Los Feliz Daycare Center was just a parody Twitter account. Who would have guessed that it exists, and in of all places Texas?

    JVW (738b08)

  25. It is also good strategy. This “transgender” thing is so perverse and thinly supported, it is precisely the battle conservatives should be eager to wade in to. Yes, make the Left fight jot and tittle to defend it. Let’s paint the Democrats, first and foremost, as the “Tranny Party” and see how that sits with their other grievance-based constituencies. More lawsuits, please!

    ThOR (a52560)

  26. It would be more fruitful, and beneficial to children and to society, to try to clamp down on adoption and surrogacy by homosexual “parents”. Her two “dads” are the ones turning this little girl into a freak.

    nk (dbc370)

  27. The problem of course, ThOR, is that the “experts” in academia and the professional organizations will take the side of the Democrats and insist that a six-year-old knows exactly what his or her “true” gender is, and that irreparable harm will be done to a tyke if they don’t get properly reoriented tout suite. And because we have way too many people in this country who don’t understand the fallacy of appealing to authority or the rank politicization of science, they will meekly go along with what their “betters” tell him is the wisest policy.

    JVW (738b08)

  28. I wonder what kind of [mot de happyfeet] they bought her from.

    nk (dbc370)

  29. i got the game from the patterico amazon widget for a better price than the link above

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  30. trannies cause way more trouble than they’re worth i think

    the trouble with trannies is it’s all about them them them

    they have no consideration for how other people feel

    they should be ashamed of themselves

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  31. i ordered some tablet accessories for work through the patterico widget

    they’re ugly don’t judge me

    i was told to get these

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  32. ‘defend their dignity’

    These homosexuals and trannies dress up like they’re in a Benny Hill sketch, do things to each other that would make a billy goat puke and then demand their “dignity” be defended. Modern America is a joke.

    CrustyB (69f730)

  33. 8. This story also reinforces people’s worst fears about gay parents.

    Patterico (86c8ed) — 11/12/2015 @ 7:23 am

    Why is a perfectly rational conclusion now a “fear?”

    Children need both a mom and a dad for a variety of developmental reasons. Who is that little girl supposed to model herself on when she has two daddies? Even if one of them is claiming to be her mommy? Of course she’s confused. Of course she wants to be “daddy’s little boy.” She has two daddies.

    Opposite sex parents produce better outcomes precisely because fathers and mothers play with their children differently, their parental love is qualitatively different, and they teach their children different things. Together they provide their children with both a role model for themselves and respect for the opposite sex.

    Same sex marriage requires redefining marriage so that children are no longer part of the definition. The only thing that matters are the sexual desires of the adults. Consequently the kids are mere pawns, no longer central to the purpose of marriage.

    So of course their welfare is no longer important.

    The thing is there has always been evidence that same-sex parenting is inadequate, with children of same-sex couples having a greater incidence of sexual and gender disorders than those raised by opposite couples. The evidence is sketchy and preliminary because homosexual activity was still illegal in some states until Lawrence and same-sex parenting was rare. But the evidence was always there.

    So you tell me, Pat, is this an irrational fear of mine, or a rational conclusion based upon trends in what some wags with a great sense of irony named higher education? But first, look at how the inmates running the asylum are demanding universities become “safe spaces” where they never have to be exposed to thoughts that are among other things “homophobic” and “transphobic.” Look at how little Ms. Korn has been thoroughly indoctrinated in Herbert Marcuse’s cultural Marxist theories on “tolerance” (hint: actual tolerance is not to be tolerated in order to hasten the revolution):

    http://www.thecrimson.com/column/the-red-line/article/2014/2/18/academic-freedom-justice/

    “…In its oft-cited Statement of Principles on Academic Freedom and Tenure, the American Association of University Professors declares that “Teachers are entitled to full freedom in research and in the publication of the results.” In principle, this policy seems sound: It would not do for academics to have their research restricted by the political whims of the moment.

    Yet the liberal obsession with “academic freedom” seems a bit misplaced to me. After all, no one ever has “full freedom” in research and publication. Which research proposals receive funding and what papers are accepted for publication are always contingent on political priorities. The words used to articulate a research question can have implications for its outcome. No academic question is ever “free” from political realities. If our university community opposes racism, sexism, and heterosexism, why should we put up with research that counters our goals simply in the name of “academic freedom”?

    Instead, I would like to propose a more rigorous standard: one of “academic justice.” When an academic community observes research promoting or justifying oppression, it should ensure that this research does not continue…”

    It’s amusing that special snowflake calls debasing science a
    “more rigorous standard.”

    But let’s not focus on one special snowflake. My conclusion is that no social scientist will ever follow the evidence when it comes to studying the effects of same-sex parenting on children. Because an objective study of the evidence wouldn’t be useful for fighting “heterosexism” which is the pre-determined politicized outcome of such research in today’s colleges and universities.

    My “worst fears,” which would be an emotional response, or a rational conclusion?

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  34. gay people and trannies shouldn’t be conflated

    permit me to put you some knowledge

    trannies are squirrely and selfish

    gay people are just gay

    you know, like your mama

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  35. Lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender individuals are treated the same by everyone, happyfeet.

    DRJ (15874d)

  36. I know it’s hard to see this happen when you care about an issue so much. You want the happy ending but this was inevitable. We have traditions for a reason.

    DRJ (15874d)

  37. ThOR,

    This is in a Houston suburb. Houston seems to be in the forefront on these issues.

    DRJ (15874d)

  38. So her parents are male? Who’s on first?

    DNF (ffe548)

  39. Our touchy-feely, participation trophy, Safe Space society is just now reaping what it’s sown at Yale and Mizzou. Wait until the kids being raised to believe their genitals have no correlation to their sex get old enough to go to college.

    L.N. Smithee (e750c1)

  40. These type of stories used to surprise me.

    JD (4ab7ea)

  41. I don’t think this is a hard one.

    a) It’s a private day care, they have the right to teach what they want, and fire anyone not willing to teach it.

    b) It’s a private day care, and if parents want their kids to go to a place that acknowledges and encourages transgender whatever, they have that right and no one who disagrees should send their kids there.

    c) The parents get to inculcate the values of their child. Conservatives who want the parents of the “transgender” child treated as child abusers are sowing the wind, and will reap the whirlwind. Implied in “freedom” is the freedom to make bad choices. And what values do you think the majority of social workers will consider abusive? Be very careful what you wish for.

    Nobody has the right, religious or otherwise, to be employed by a private employer. These Christians are not “being deprived of their livelihood” for being Christian.

    I have no doubt there are any number of private Christian child care centers more than willing to hire these two.

    I’m pretty disappointed in the responses here; but conservatives are generally not small-government types and they do always find ways to remind me of that when I forget.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  42. The child is too young to choose a preferred gender identity. Her parents should be investigated for child endangerment and political activism.

    n.n (ae35ca)

  43. JVW,

    We surely will not succeed among affluent, educated whites. And that’s the point, really. “Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it,” as my man Alinsky puts it. Here is an issue that is so marginalizing, it seems a perfect fit. We want the experts in academia and professional America to announce themselves as being the moral and intellectual peers of the MSNBC Three. I cannot imagine a better vehicle with which to demonstrate that our white collar emporers have not clothes.

    ThOR (a52560)

  44. The irony of coercing a gender identity to mask a biological sex is lost on people who are supposedly “liberal” or “libertarian”.

    n.n (ae35ca)

  45. The MSNBC Three are simply the visible tip of a much large cultural iceberg. Let’s go after all of them by making them own the tranny subculture.

    ThOR (a52560)

  46. oh goodness that’s messed up

    trannies are sui generis

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  47. @n.n.The irony of coercing a gender identity to mask a biological sex is lost on people who are supposedly “liberal” or “libertarian”.

    Libertarians are opposed to coercion generally. I suspect you are using the word “coercion” to mean something very different from how everyone else is using it.

    As far as I am concerned an adult has the right to demand to be treated as any gender he/she likes, or possibly made up–but they have no right to require that treatment from others under penalty of law. Parents have the right to exercise those rights on behalf of their minor children.

    Employers have the right to fire me for not doing what they employ me to do.

    So there’s no “irony” in my position.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  48. @n.n.Her parents should be investigated for child endangerment and political activism.

    Fascist.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  49. “Opposite sex parents produce better outcomes precisely because fathers and mothers play with their children differently, their parental love is qualitatively different, and they teach their children different things.”

    – Steve57

    Clearly all things tied directly to their gender. For my edification, could you please explain the qualitative difference between my mother and father’s love for me as their child? Or what mothers generally teach their children, vs. fathers?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  50. Gabriel Hanna:

    41.I don’t think this is a hard one.

    a) It’s a private day care, they have the right to teach what they want, and fire anyone not willing to teach it.

    Day care is about care, not teaching.

    b) It’s a private day care, and if parents want their kids to go to a place that acknowledges and encourages transgender whatever, they have that right and no one who disagrees should send their kids there.

    My guess is this has nothing to do with what the daycare owner believes and everything to do with avoiding getting sued by the transgender parents.

    c) The parents get to inculcate the values of their child. Conservatives who want the parents of the “transgender” child treated as child abusers are sowing the wind, and will reap the whirlwind. Implied in “freedom” is the freedom to make bad choices. And what values do you think the majority of social workers will consider abusive? Be very careful what you wish for.

    I agree the transgender child’s parents can raise her/him as they please. I also agree the parents of the children can go elsewhere for day care, but they should also be able to encourage the daycare owner to handle this topic in a different way. I think the owner is in a hard place and chose the easy way out. It may end up hurting the daycare’s business more than a lawsuit, but we’ll see.

    Nobody has the right, religious or otherwise, to be employed by a private employer. These Christians are not “being deprived of their livelihood” for being Christian.

    People don’t have the right to be hired but they have the right not to be fired because of their religious beliefs.

    I have no doubt there are any number of private Christian child care centers more than willing to hire these two.

    I agree.

    I’m pretty disappointed in the responses here; but conservatives are generally not small-government types and they do always find ways to remind me of that when I forget.

    I’m disappointed in your comment, too, which is why I took the time to respond to each point.

    DRJ (15874d)

  51. Gabriel, your position is rich in irony. Beginning with the comedic notion that employers are free to make their own hiring and firing decisions.

    The big government types learned long ago that they don’t need to own the “means of production” as long as they can micromanage every aspect of what they call “public accommodations.” In fact, allowing what are now essentially government shop managers to retain title gives them the fig leaf they need to allow you pretend we are still talking about what was formerly known as private enterprise.

    It takes big government to force people to go along with this madness. As if these proprietors are making their decisions freely, uninfluenced by the knowledge that they will be bludgeoned into compliance if they take any position other than the government-approved position on the “transgendered.”

    Ask the proprietors of Sweet Cakes bakery in Oregon whether their business was theirs, or the government’s.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  52. Mothers protect because they are nurturers and fathers encourage independence because they are breadwinners. There are exceptions but we are that way instinctively, although I admit that progressives are doing everything they can to eliminate and make people doubt those instincts.

    DRJ (15874d)

  53. 50. …My guess is this has nothing to do with what the daycare owner believes and everything to do with avoiding getting sued by the transgender parents.

    …I’m disappointed in your comment, too, which is why I took the time to respond to each point.

    DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2015 @ 10:58 am

    That’s my informed opinion as well. Informed by numerous examples, which somehow Gabriel has failed to notice. Which convinces me that he hasn’t been paying attention for quite some time.

    I don’t know if Gabriel is a libertarian, but he makes a fundamental mistake about libertarainism:

    Libertarians are opposed to coercion generally.

    No they’re not. Not if you judge them by the results.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  54. 52. Mothers protect because they are nurturers and fathers encourage independence because they are breadwinners. There are exceptions but we are that way instinctively, although I admit that progressives are doing everything they can to eliminate and make people doubt those instincts.

    DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2015 @ 11:01 am

    You are wasting your breath on Leviticus, but yes that is one of the qualitative differences. Fathers love their children by teaching them to take risks. Mothers love their children by providing them with a sense of security.

    And frankly it’s the over-feminization of our society that has resulted in the spectacle of college students demanding to be treated like their mothers treated them as children. To provide “safe spaces” where they can live in their cocoon of security.

    But Leviticus grew up in this, so explaining it to him would be like explaining to a fish that he’s wet.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  55. This story also reinforces people’s worst fears about gay parents.

    Bingo.

    So let’s see — what are the odds that the kid has a genuine cisnormative issue or the gay parents have an agenda?

    Hmmm… Well, I know how I’m voting. Now these “parents” have put “rational” gay folks in the position of “rational” muslims — that is, they have to defend themselves from the objective damage that irrational people in their own groups are committing. I wish them good luck with that.

    Gads, it reminds of that scene in the original Terminator movie, only now the line applies to liberals:

    “[They] can’t be bargained with. [They] can’t be reasoned with. [They don’t] feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And [they] absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.”

    J.P. (cc46f4)

  56. For my edification, could you please explain the qualitative difference between my mother and father’s love for me as their child? Or what mothers generally teach their children, vs. fathers?

    Srly? Were you raised in an orphanage, poor Leviticus?

    nk (dbc370)

  57. I feel sorry for the child, being used as a pawn and a prop for an activist agenda. The rest of the adults, on both sides, seem to be unsympathetic douchenozzles.

    JD (4ab7ea)

  58. @DRJ:Day care is about care, not teaching.

    Different for different day cares. The one I send my kid do teaches them things. So does this one. But teaching vs care is up to them and their customers, provided basic regulations are met–shouldn’t it? Because I’d very much like to know who you intend to put in charge of forcing their vision on everyone.

    My guess is this has nothing to do with what the daycare owner believes and everything to do with avoiding getting sued by the transgender parents.

    The motive has nothing to do with it: this is about the rights you want to see violated. They have the right to teach children that the moon is made of Camembert, and the parents of children who wish their children to be taught that have the right to send them there.

    I also agree the parents of the children can go elsewhere for day care, but they should also be able to encourage the daycare owner to handle this topic in a different way.

    That’s not disputed but it’s the owner who has the right to decide that.

    People don’t have the right to be hired but they have the right not to be fired because of their religious beliefs.

    There is no right to fire a bacon taste-tester who converts to Islam? He must be paid to do nothing? I find it very very hard to believe that religious accommodation goes this far. If a religious requirement is too extreme accommodation simply is not possible. I suppose we have to argue over whether this case meets that standard, but you must admit that for some religions no accommodation is compatible with employment.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  59. @Steve57:Beginning with the comedic notion that employers are free to make their own hiring and firing decisions.

    They are not totally free, everyone knows it. They OUGHT to be totally free, I would say, and apparently you disagree.

    It takes big government to force people to go along with this madness.

    The only use of government here is by the Christians suing. Plenty of people voluntarily go along with transgenderism, as hard as it is for you to believe. The fact is you are, on this issue, the mirror image of those you condemn on the gay wedding cakes.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  60. @Steve57:No they’re not. Not if you judge them by the results.

    This made me lol. When have libertarians had their way on ANYTHING? When were there enough of them in one place?

    Even the marijuana legalizations are so hedged about with regulation and taxation that libertarians consider them at best half a loaf.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  61. if a tranny got me fired that would just make me hate them even more

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  62. Question for lawyers: can an at-will employee be fired for refusing to participate in child abuse? Even if the policy of the business is to further this kind of child abuse? Even if the policy manual that they agreed to makes no mention of this?

    Are they required to accept their employers legal opinions as to what is or is not abuse?

    Or is this simply retaliation against whistle-blowers?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  63. The obvious point of differentiation: is this a privately owned day care center? If it is, then the employers can set any criteria for employment they wish.

    The capitalist Dana (f6a568)

  64. I would think this is a stupid thing for the childcare center to take on. In Texas. In 30 days, it will be ONLY the transgendered children of gays. I am willing to bet there are more Baptists than gays in the Houston area.

    I also note that we have to read about this in a British paper. Can we get some of them to start American editions?

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  65. “Mothers protect because they are nurturers and fathers encourage independence because they are breadwinners. There are exceptions but we are that way instinctively, although I admit that progressives are doing everything they can to eliminate and make people doubt those instincts.”

    – DRJ

    There are many, many exceptions – so many, that I would think people would start to balk at the degree of generalization. The step that “progressives” are taking to eliminate that generalization is pointing out the many, many exceptions to it. Fairly rational response, I think. How many exceptions can a rule bear before it ceases to become a rule?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  66. “Srly? Were you raised in an orphanage, poor Leviticus?”

    – nk

    I know the qualitative difference. I just want to see Steve take a stab at explaining it, without knowing anything about my parents.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  67. There is more too this than what was stated in the description above. Evidently the little girl/boy appears angry and confused and after it was declared that she was a boy has screamed at the day care center when they tried to use her/his new name and gender that “she was not a boy and that she was a girl”.

    Also to be “declared” transgender it takes time and interactions with a trained medical professional. Parents can’t just cut off a child’s hair and tell the day care they are now a boy without some type of medical discussion and documentation to the facility. Plus the child keeps screaming at times that she is a girl not a boy so it appears to be something that child protective services needs to investigate.

    The women fired did not feel it was their place to teach other parents children about transgenderism without those parents being informed and able to provide input around their own children. The concern was that 1) for the confused girl/boy and how best to handle this and what type of professional input was needed/required and 2) the impact for other parents if their small child comes home spouting all sorts of stuff about gender being taught at the day care without the parents knowledge.

    Frankly it is a mess of a situation. The daycare took the cowardly PC way out and just fired the two women who raised the questions about what needed to be done rather than think things through.

    summerwarmth (4123cb)

  68. The obvious answer is that normal parents of normal children should exercise their economic rights and choose to place their children elsewhere; no normal and caring parent would want their children taught that their sex is anything other than how they were born.

    The capitalist Dana (f6a568)

  69. Dana, they cannot set criteria that require illegal behavior. A bank could not require tellers to cheat customers, for example, and firing them for refusing would be actionable. I don’t know Texas law, but I suspect there might be state regulations regarding day care, and if so it isn’t strictly a private matter. If workers at daycare are licensed, firing them for not endangering their licenses is iffy as well.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  70. 49. …Clearly all things tied directly to their gender. For my edification, could you please explain the qualitative difference between my mother and father’s love for me as their child? Or what mothers generally teach their children, vs. fathers?

    Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/12/2015 @ 10:55 am

    Why are you so anti-science, Leviticus?

    http://www.livescience.com/3808-men-women-differently.html

    Men and Women Really Do Think Differently
    by Bjorn Carey | January 20, 2005 09:12am ET

    Men and women do think differently, at least where the anatomy of the brain is concerned, according to a new study.

    The brain is made primarily of two different types of tissue, called gray matter and white matter. This new research reveals that men think more with their gray matter, and women think more with white. Researchers stressed that just because the two sexes think differently, this does not affect intellectual performance.

    …”These findings suggest that human evolution has created two different types of brains designed for equally intelligent behavior,” said Haier, adding that, “by pinpointing these gender-based intelligence areas, the study has the potential to aid research on dementia and other cognitive-impairment diseases in the brain.”

    …The results from this study may help explain why men and women excel at different types of tasks, said co-author and neuropsychologist Rex Jung of the University of New Mexico. For example, men tend to do better with tasks requiring more localized processing, such as mathematics, Jung said, while women are better at integrating and assimilating information from distributed gray-matter regions of the brain, which aids language skills.

    But it’s just krazeee talke to say that because men and women have brains that are physically different, that the two hemispheres are actually connected differently, that they use different areas of the brain to perform cognitive tasks, that they parent differently.

    Leviticus thinks I’m insane for arriving at that conclusion, even though the different parentlng styles are well documented.

    Actually, it’s heresy for me to point that out. Because the state religion teaches that “gender differences” are entirely “social constructs.”

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  71. Dana,

    You are applying libertarian analysis to a non-libertarian world. You should stop.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  72. Of note: Adam Taylor is responsible for getting the controversial ‘bathroom bill’ put before voters in Texas, which was soundly defeated a week ago.

    So, heck, let’s use our little girl to make a political point! Let’s turn her into a boy!

    Now I’m certain this is child abuse.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  73. and confusion reigns
    when Sally met Billy sans
    future circle jerks

    Colonel Haiku (fabf46)

  74. Given that a six year old child is not considered to be competent to make decisions of this sort by any civilization on this planet, the issue needs to be addressed squarely: should parents be allowed to demand that their child who is biologically one gender be treated as the other gender?

    I’m less concerned about the employment angle here, because I have a feeling that either this particular business is geared towards a certain demographic who actually thinks this is something that should be supported–which would make me wonder why the plaintiffs here hadn’t noticed this before while working for them–or they’re about to lose a large portion of their clients as parents who (quite reasonably) view indulging this as lunacy will vote with their feet and wallets.

    M. Scott Eiland (1edade)

  75. @summerwarmth:it appears to be something that child protective services needs to investigate.

    As an American parent I can think of fewer chilling combinations of words.

    If CPS is going to be involved, there needs to be a damn sight more than “appears to be something” or we are living in a dictatorship.

    My son this morning said he is a giraffe. (Most days he says he’s a cat.) I play along as far as I can without inconvenience. Hate to think that might “appear to be something” for CPS to get into.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  76. My test: how does the little tyke respond to snips, snails and puppy dog tails?

    Colonel Haiku (fabf46)

  77. @capitalist Dana:is this a privately owned day care center

    It most certainly is privately owned, and it’s franchised.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  78. And if parents were in the habit of demanding that other entities start literally treating human children like giraffes or cats, that might be a relevant example.

    M. Scott Eiland (1edade)

  79. If CPS is going to be involved, there needs to be a damn sight more than “appears to be something” or we are living in a dictatorship.

    How about: Parent loses initiative campaign he started regarding transexuals. Suddenly, his little girl is a little boy and he’s pushing businesses to comply with the terms of the failed initiative.

    Using your child as your political bludgeon in a way that cannot fail to have serious psychological impact on the child is abuse. Not a supposition, but a fair reading of the facts. As much as a constant stream of poorly explained bruises is.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  80. @M. Scott Eiland:And if parents were in the habit of demanding that other entities start literally treating human children like giraffes or cats

    Best not give anyone ideas…

    that might be a relevant example.

    It’s relevant when commenters say that another family’s child-rearing is child abuse on its face, knowing nothing about the specific circumstances, and call for a government investigation.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  81. So, the business is caught: either they can risk being the next ex-cake-maker, after this vexatious advocate is done with them, or they can comply and risk their business. Since it’s a franchise, they may be under orders from corporate and have to choose between losing the franchise and losing their customers. Either way, it’s OK for corporate.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  82. @kenvin M:Using your child as your political bludgeon in a way that cannot fail to have serious psychological impact on the child is abuse.

    Fascism. You have no knowledge of the child’s health, you have declared the parents’ politics to be child abuse.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  83. My guess: this will end poorly for the franchising company, who will very soon have a lawsuit by franchisees.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  84. Gabriel, go troll somewhere else.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  85. If “the parents politics” involved the parents demanding that the school start reciting propaganda in favor of female genital mutilation in order to make more people comfortable with the idea, I have a feeling that there would not be an issue about this being out of line, or that the (female) child might be in an unsafe environment even before said surgery happened or was scheduled.

    M. Scott Eiland (1edade)

  86. @Kevin M:Gabriel, go troll somewhere else.

    Not trolling. A lot of people here, including yourself, are calling for government force to be used against parents with no evidence whatever of any harm to the child.

    When you invoke child abuse, that is what you are calling for.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  87. My nephew has an 8 year old daughter who’s an absolute terror on the flag football field. For the first few games, the boys on the opposing teams had no idea she’s a girl. Now that her reputation precedes her, she’s enjoying all the rushing yardage and TDs all the more. Ima gonna tell nephew to keep an eye on that girl!

    Colonel Haiku (fabf46)

  88. @M. Scott Eiland:If “the parents politics” involved the parents demanding that the school start reciting propaganda in favor of female genital mutilation in order to make more people comfortable with the idea,

    Why not go for the full Godwin? What about Nazi day cares? Did I think of that? Yes I did, and choose freedom.

    It sucks that people use freedom badly. The cure for that, however, is worse than the disease.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  89. Seriously though y’all are shooting yourselves in the foot. 99 times out of a 100 it will be a conservative’s kids who are going to get taken away, if thoughtcrime or speech in its support is “child abuse”.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  90. Confusion? When a society or culture “celebrates” psycho-sexual disorder (i.e. homos) instead of helping them there’s a problem. Then when those people with psycho-sexual disorders (i.e. homos) are given access to lawful marriage there’s a problem. Once those people with psycho-sexual disorders (i.e. homos) attain the presumptive right to marry(?) they then have the presumptive right to adopt. Once these people with psycho-sexual disorders (i.e. homos) are permitted to adopt they begin psycho-sexually perverting their adopted children. After all, everybody wants their kids to follow in their footsteps. So we have been told we must accept homos because “they’re born that way”, not made queer, not taught to be queer, it’s somehow in an invisible queer gene. It’s not their fault. But if they’re born that way why are these two forcing a child to “transition” her sex?

    Homos are psycho-sexual deviants, perverts. They have always been so and always will be. Just as Bruce Jenner can change his name, wear a dress and makeup, implant breasts and mutilate his genitals he will always be a male by DNA and his chromosomes. They can be helped. They should be tolerated as citizens and have the same inalienable rights but they should not be celebrated or encouraged nor their lifestyle promoted.

    As I’ve stated before (and this is an opinion and an observation, not a scientific study) today homos account for about 3-4% of the population. With all their new “rights” in ten years homos will “unexpectedly” become 15% of the population because children are being taught to be queer and being manly is no longer an attribute for a male. That’s why we have Pajama Boy, men constantly crying on television and in movies and at least one queer character in almost every new TV show and now even commercials. And as I’ve also stated before the entire idea here is to undermine and denigrate Christianity. It’s just another small hyena nipping at the heals of all that is legitimate to create the New Secular Socialism where government once again rules over men like almost all of history.

    Aggrieved blacks, aggrieved Hispanics, aggrieved moslems, aggrieved women, aggrieved college students, aggrieved unionists, aggrieved homos and aggrieved lesbians. Everybody has a right to be aggrieved except the white, male, heterosexual Christian. He is the ultimate villain for creating a society allowing all these ingrates to have their grievances.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  91. @Rev’m:But if they’re born that way why are these two forcing a child to “transition” her sex?

    I think they would say that the child’s mind, or brain, was born in the wrong gender.

    I have no idea what sort of evidence they would produce–I think gender reassignment on children is one day going to be looked at like lobotomy on mental patients is now. And I have no idea how many parents of transgender children have thought any of this through or how well.

    As usual, Screwtape is right. Humans always rush over to the side of the boat that is gunwale under, and use fire extinguishers to fight a flood.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  92. Given all of the problems in this world, let the folks in Texas sort it out. And the free market. I know if i had a child attending this school, I would have been making other arrangements and would have removed my child (and let the school know why) at the earliest opportunity.

    Colonel Haiku (fabf46)

  93. 65. …The step that “progressives” are taking to eliminate that generalization is pointing out the many, many exceptions to it. Fairly rational response, I think. How many exceptions can a rule bear before it ceases to become a rule?

    Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/12/2015 @ 11:42 am

    No, Leviticus, that is not what progressives are doing. But then the devil’s greatest trick was to convince the world he doesn’t exist. The only way to pull of a con job is to convince the mark that he or she isn’t being conned.

    And you have been conned. Which was the point of the indoctrination you mistake for your education. The designers of that system of indoctrination would be well pleased that you never caught on.

    I turn now to that hotbed of right-wing extremism, Stanford University, and their on-line encyclopedia of philosophy. Which we all know is just a compendium of whacko rethuglican wing-nut conspiracy theories.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/critical-theory/

    Critical Theory has a narrow and a broad meaning in philosophy and in the history of the social sciences. “Critical Theory” in the narrow sense designates several generations of German philosophers and social theorists in the Western European Marxist tradition known as the Frankfurt School. According to these theorists, a “critical” theory may be distinguished from a “traditional” theory according to a specific practical purpose: a theory is critical to the extent that it seeks human “emancipation from slavery”, acts as a “liberating … influence”, and works “to create a world which satisfies the needs and powers” of human beings (Horkheimer 1972, 246). Because such theories aim to explain and transform all the circumstances that enslave human beings, many “critical theories” in the broader sense have been developed. They have emerged in connection with the many social movements that identify varied dimensions of the domination of human beings in modern societies. In both the broad and the narrow senses, however, a critical theory provides the descriptive and normative bases for social inquiry aimed at decreasing domination and increasing freedom in all their forms…

    The person or people who wrote this either failed to understand, or doesn’t want the reader to understand, that there is no broader meaning. All the “many ‘critical theories'” are simply designed to camouflage the fact that we are looking at a theory with a single purpose. The destruction of Western Civilization. So it might appear that all the grievance studies; women’s, minority, gender, trans, whatever, are separate movements, they are not.

    “Emancipation from slavery” means destroying the underlying tenets of Western Civilization. As you put it, the rule ceases to be the rule. When Horkheimer says critical theory “works to ‘to create a world which satisfies the needs and powers’ of human beings” he is talking about establishing a communist system in place of the system he has set out to destroy.

    But he knew better than to come out and just say it, so he and the rest of the members of the Frankfurt School instead couched everything they were about in Orwellian double speak.

    If you want to see what they meant by “liberating … influence” scroll up and read the Harvard Crimson article, subtitled Let’s give up on academic freedom in favor of justice, I linked to @33. That is pure Marcuse, another prominent member of the Frankfurt school. In fact he is sometimes called the Father of the 1960s as he is largely responsible for developing the theories that drove the counter culture. From his 1965 essay on Repressive Tolerance:

    http://www.marcuse.org/herbert/pubs/60spubs/65repressivetolerance.htm

    …By the same token, those minorities which strive for a change of the whole itself will, under optimal conditions which rarely prevail, will be left free to deliberate and discuss, to speak and to assemble – and will be left harmless and helpless in the face of the overwhelming majority, which militates against qualitative social change. This majority is firmly grounded in the increasing satisfaction of needs, and technological and -mental co-ordination, which testify to the general helplessness of radical groups in a well-functioning social system.

    Within the affluent democracy, the affluent discussion prevails, and within the established framework, it is tolerant to a large extent. All points of view can be heard: the Communist and the Fascist, the Left and the Right, the white and the Negro, the crusaders for armament and for disarmament. Moreover, in endlessly dragging debates over the media, the stupid opinion is treated with the same respect as the intelligent one, the misinformed may talk as long as the informed, and propaganda rides along with education, truth with falsehood. This pure toleration of sense and nonsense is justified by the democratic argument that nobody, neither group nor individual, is in possession of the truth and capable of defining what is right and wrong, good and bad. Therefore, all contesting opinions must be submitted to ‘the people’ for its deliberation and choice. But I have already suggested that the democratic argument implies a necessary condition, namely, that the people must be capable of deliberating and choosing on the basis of knowledge, that they must have access to authentic information, and that, on this. basis, their evaluation must be the result of autonomous thought.

    …The very notion of false tolerance, and the distinction between right and wrong limitations on tolerance, between progressive and regressive indoctrination, revolutionary and reactionary violence demands the statement of criteria for its validity. These standards must be prior to whatever constitutional and legal criteria are set up and applied in an existing society…

    … Liberating tolerance, then, would mean intolerance against movements from the Right and toleration of movements from the Left.

    I doubt that the author, Sandra Korn, has heard of Marcuse. The most effective way to propagandize someone to arrive at the desired to conclusion, to indoctrinate them to think what they are supposed to think instead of educating them so that they learn how to think, the best technique is to trick them into thinking they arrived at the conclusion on their own.

    Which is why you believe progressives are behaving rationally, Leviticus. For the exact same reason Sandra Korn thinks she is being rational when she proposes suppressing “reactionary” research and speech. Because Marxism is scientific! Therefore it is rational, other systems are not.

    Somewhere Marcuse and Hokheimer are smiling, despite the flames.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  94. Let’s try a hypothetical that doesn’t make the child’s parents the bad guys: Her parents are both male, so even if they tried they may not have much of a female role model for her. So what if she wants to be like her Daddies? She’s bonding with them and that’s a good thing. Even if it isn’t good, it’s their family’s choice.

    The problem for me is this asks other families to address transgender issues with their very young children. These are probably preschool age children because older ones are in school. This is asking a lot.

    DRJ (15874d)

  95. I am willing to bet there are more Baptists than gays in the Houston area.

    there’s probably a healthy overlap between these two groups actually

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  96. Nothing healthy about that “overlapping”, gayfeet

    Colonel Haiku (fabf46)

  97. you’re ruining red cup season with your surly attitude

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  98. Gabriel – do you really see no difference between indulging your child’s imagination at home to be a giraffe, and forcing a daycare center to treat and address him as a giraffe under the threat of a lawsuit by an activist attorney?

    JD (4ab7ea)

  99. @DRJ:The problem for me is this asks other families to address transgender issues with their very young children. These are probably preschool age children because older ones are in school. This is asking a lot.

    It’s not, because those parents voluntarily send their children there. If they don’t like the policy they are free to send them to one with policies they approve of.

    Freedom is better, really.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  100. @JD:Gabriel – do you really see no difference between indulging your child’s imagination at home to be a giraffe, and forcing a daycare center to treat and address him as a giraffe under the threat of a lawsuit by an activist attorney?

    Yeah, huge difference. But the only “activist attorneys” outside of your imagination are working for the Christians.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  101. @JD:forcing a daycare center to treat and address him as a giraffe under the threat of a lawsuit by an activist attorney?

    See, right there, this thing, you invented all of it out of whole cloth.

    You have no evidence that this child’s parents “forced” the day care to do anything. You have no evidence they hired an attorney to do anything.

    You just made it up.

    The only lawsuit is the one from the Christians.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  102. Wrong, Gabriel:

    “Taylor is a prominent legal figure on gender issues, having fought and won a case to get Texas’ controversial ‘bathroom bill’ put before voters.”

    Regardless of one’s view on the merits, that sort of legal work is by definition activist.

    M. Scott Eiland (1edade)

  103. None of the shouting on either side matters. The only thing that matters is that a little girl is being raised by two men and her life almost certainly will be messed up from this point forward. We are a sick society.

    mark johnson (3fe179)

  104. i’m craving grapefruit juice

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  105. @M. Scott Eiland:Wrong, Gabriel:

    “Taylor is a prominent legal figure on gender issues, having fought and won a case to get Texas’ controversial ‘bathroom bill’ put before voters.”

    He is working for the Christians.

    Taylor added that he is filing a lawsuit with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, claiming that Madeline’s rights as a Christian have been infringed.

    Only the Christians are bringing in activist lawyers.

    Did you not read the article?

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  106. “No, Leviticus, that is not what progressives are doing. But then the devil’s greatest trick was to convince the world he doesn’t exist. The only way to pull of a con job is to convince the mark that he or she isn’t being conned.

    And you have been conned. Which was the point of the indoctrination you mistake for your education. The designers of that system of indoctrination would be well pleased that you never caught on.”

    – Steve57

    So my options are to believe I’ve been conned, and agree with you, or not believe I’ve been conned, which you will take as the best possible evidence of me having been conned… so what are we doing here?

    And how come you get to quote Herbert Marcuse (with a straight face) with impunity while everyone insinuates that I’m some kind of namby-pamby academic for talking about Jurgen Habermas?

    Help! Help! I’m being repressed! Come see the violence inherent in the system!

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  107. We’ve got an endemic double-standard at this blog when it comes to quoting irrelevant Frankfurt School critical social theorists.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  108. This calls for frenetic paranoid theorizing peppered with random quotes from Derrida.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  109. Good allah, you don’t even know what you don’t know?

    narciso (ee1f88)

  110. And now we’ve got a drive-by epistemologist on our hands. I think I know what I don’t know… but do I *know*? Who knows? We can’t all be Socrates.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  111. Shouldn’t the kid be in real school, with professional baby sitters?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  112. 88. …Why not go for the full Godwin? What about Nazi day cares? Did I think of that? Yes I did, and choose freedom.

    It sucks that people use freedom badly. The cure for that, however, is worse than the disease.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/12/2015 @ 12:30 pm

    Then why are you actively collaborating with the cure, while observing it is worse than the disease?

    Libertarians always think they’re striking a blow for freedom when they provide aid and comfort to the totalitarian left.

    What is actually going on with your kids from daycare through college (see Mizzou, Yale, et al).

    …But this is also the essence of the argument that a wedding vendor who wants to remain free to refrain from participating in a same-sex wedding would advance. The question of the definition of marriage is, for many people, a fundamentally religious question. It is, of course, also a civil question in our country. But some religiously orthodox wedding vendors are finding themselves effectively compelled by the civil authorities to affirm an answer to that question that violates their understanding of their religious obligations. They would like to be relieved of that compulsion, but they are being told they can’t be because the larger society’s understanding of the proper answer to the question should overrule the answer prescribed by their religious convictions, and if they want to participate as business owners in the life of the larger society they must give ground.

    They are in this sense more like religious believers under compulsion in a society with an established church than like believers denied the freedom to exercise their religion. Liberals are in this respect right to say they’re not trying to kill religious liberty. They’re trying to take it back to something like the form it had in the Anglo-American world when the Anglo-American world had a formal state religion—except now the state religion is supposed to be progressive liberalism.

    …We who are appalled by the perverse reaction to the Indiana law are not exactly defending the free exercise right; we are in a sense opposing a violation of the prohibition on religious establishment. The point is not that running a flower shop is a way of practicing one’s religion. The point is that, if reasonably possible, people should not be compelled as the price of entry to the public square to honor as true what their understanding of their religious obligations compels them to judge false.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/416421/church-left-yuval-levin

    People confuse religion with a belief in a god all the time. The two are entirely separate. For instance, most Buddhists don’t believe in a god. It is true to say that Buddhism does not require a belief in a god. On the other hand there are people like Einstein who are theists who accept that there is an impersonal, unknowable god out there. But think religion is a silly superstition.

    Chuche is a religion. The NORKs don’t call it a religion, and it has no official god, but it has all the trappings of a religion and everyone who has seriously studied it (in my experience, and I spent a great deal of my time in the Navy studying the NORKs for obvious reasons so I’m very familiar with Chuche) understands what they are looking at; a religion. In fact, many if not most communist countries have had cults-of-personality that were essentially state religions.

    In fact, one of the hallmarks of communism is a religious belief in the notion that Marxism is scientific and rational. Which is why they have to practice the “liberating tolerance” of shielding their adherents/state slaves from sources of contrary information. Also known as heretical opinions.

    This is how cults operate, as anyone who has ever studied coercive persuasion, mind control, brainwashing, whatever you want to call it as practiced on POWs in Korea and Vietnam. First, shake a person’s confidence in everything they ever believed in, convince them that they can not perceive reality or determine cause and effect on their own, through a variety of carrots and sticks compel them to rely on the cult leaders explanation of reality and cause and effect, restrict their access to information, and promise them dire consequences if they leave the cult.

    This is also how religious cults operate, and it’s how our educational system operates. The students at Yale, Mizzou, etc. demanding “safe spaces” free from “triggers” and demanding that administrators and professors be fired and driven off campus because they are not sufficiently in line with the teachings of their cult are simply the natural products of their indoctrination.

    Naturally, the prophets of this state religion aren’t merely going to settle for establishing the state religion in education. That’s merely the seminary; their disciples are supposed to go forth and help enforce it when they leave for the wider world.

    Which brings us full circle to this day care firing these Christians. The fact of the matter is you are not free to have your own religion despite a business being nominally “private.” It isn’t. When there is a state religion, your business already has a religion. And in America that state religion has tenets concerning gay marriage, abortion, contraceptives/abortifacients, global warming, racism, and of course transgendered children.

    Try to run a business as if you were free to operate it in conformity to your own beliefs. Or even a charity, as the Little Sisters of the Poor are discovering. You can tell these elderly nuns are confused, as are many observers, about what is so urgent about making them buy people contraceptives and abortifacients against their conscience. If you understand what is really going on, purging heretics and their heresies from the public sphere, it all makes perfect sense.

    It’s why Obama and his fellow cultists never speak of the free exercise of religion guaranteed by the Constitution but rather “freedom of worship.” It also helps explain why the left and the Islamists are natural allies. Under very tight restrictions you may privately adhere to a different religion other than the state religion. As long as you don’t do it in public. In public you must not let the adherents of the state religion become aware of your existence.

    The idea that as a Christian in the US you can have an opinion about transgendered children that differs from the state religion’s is about as quaint as the idea that as a Christian you can sell cigarettes and wine out of your shop in Raqqah, Syria.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  113. If that activist atty is not pushing this on behalf of the gay parents, I was mistaken. Remove the activist atty part from my hypothetical – do you not see the difference between indulging your child’s imagination at home, and forcing others to do so with the possibility of them losing their jobs in public? Do the reports of the child expressing her desire to not be treated as a boy, contrary to the gay parents wishes, change your perspective?

    JD (4ab7ea)

  114. #33 Steve57 (bcaa38) — 11/12/2015 @ 10:06 am

    #90 Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/12/2015 @ 12:36 pm

    #93 Steve57 (bcaa38) — 11/12/2015 @ 12:49 pm

    Good thoughtful responses. Thank you.

    = = = = = = =

    To my mind, this is like when a little boy announces “When I grow up I’m going to marry Mommy!”. Instead of a chuckle and a pat on the head and “Well, it’ll be a few years before you have to decide who to marry”, this poor kid’s “parents” are doing the equivalent of sending out engraved wedding invitations and getting the reception hall and caterer scheduled.

    And yes, it *IS* child abuse. On the one hand, Gabriel Hanna has a point – do you really WANT to get our totally-biased-against-normalcy government involved in this? And on the other hand, who is going to help this poor little girl?

    Aaargh.

    A_Nonny_Mouse (0bea86)

  115. Leviticus, you haven’t made sense for quite some time.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  116. I was making sense a second ago – enough for you to diagnose my indoctrination, anyway.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  117. Shame on me for not thinking this through at more than face value previously…

    As pointed out, it is entirely possible that this came about because the owners of the daycare didn’t want to get sued by the parents of the “transgender child”

    and now the owner of the daycare is caught in the middle because he/she didn’t want to get slammed as anti-trans and lose his business as bakers have…

    yes, it is a mess no matter what it seems

    but, ignoring any and all details of this case…
    are there any jurisdictions that have transgender protection language in their discrimination law, as they have with sexual orientation?
    I’m guessing if not, there is a stronger legal case for those who do not want to embrace the transgender rights issue in their “personal business” affairs (even if their “personal business is counted as a public accommodation.

    back in Jesus day He often took the approach of answering a “gotcha” question with a “No, I’ve got you” question

    such as, when asked, “Do male and female parents bring different things to parenting?”
    Maybe He would have answered them, “Have you not read, ‘male and female created He them’” and leave it at that.

    politically, at least at the moment, I think arguing against unisex bathrooms is a winner,
    along with a totally reasonable thing to do even if it wasn’t a political winner

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  118. Two points

    1) it is a private day care, so the day care can fire and hire anyone they want.

    2) The vastly more important point deals with the transgender child.
    While I am not a medical doctor, I have serious doubts that issues associated with being transgender appear until the child reaches puberty. Or very unlikely to appear before puberty.

    All that is happening at this point is seriously F’ing up the kid.

    As a side note, it would appear that the transgender bs is some one other than the child with a delusional agenda. That is the person that should be sued and removed from the presence of the cchild.

    joe (debac0)

  119. Where there is selfish ambition there will be all sorts of trouble-
    James 4 or so (From the hip Patterico unauthorized version)

    there is a selfish agenda driving this, no good can come of it,
    unless there is some redeeming miracle

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  120. ) The vastly more important point deals with the transgender child.
    While I am not a medical doctor, I have serious doubts that issues associated with being transgender appear until the child reaches puberty. Or very unlikely to appear before puberty.

    They might indeed appear, but what is certain is that no child of that age group has any real understanding of what the differences between men and women are, or their consequences… And therefore any parental encouragement is abuse of the child, plain and simple. Unless they took the child to a psychologist who told them to do this, in which case that psychologist should be labelled a quack.

    kishnevi (28fa9f)

  121. All this ado amuses me. I recall back in the 70’s I believe, a certain Christian church (ahem, Catholic) decided it was just so important to be “fair” and show how “progressive” and “inclusive” the church was becoming that they decided it was important to encourage gay men to join the priesthood. At that time I was an Episcopalian and I remember saying to my Catholic father: “Has your church completely lost its mind? Have they forgotten the Bible’s admonishment of perversion? Don’t they realize this will set gay priests loose on kids?”. My father informed me in his best, most tolerant way that just because the priests were gay did not make them child molesters. That’s when I gave dad a phrase he never forgot: “Dad, you’ve been brain-phuked by the media if you believe you can lead a queer to kids and he won’t drink”. Twenty-five years later we had the Catholic “Pedophile” Priest scandal. It wasn’t a scandal, it was inevitable. They weren’t pedophiles, they were perverts. Had they been just pedophiles there would have been as many and probably more females assaulted than males. They were after the young boys, that’s all. Some day soon the Boy Scout “pedophile” problem will be “unexpectedly” detected to everybody’s surprise. And in a few years if things keep up this pace we’ll see special classes for all kinds of psychologically phuked-up kids coming from homo and lesbian marriages.

    There are things a good, God fearing Christian American cannot morally be tolerant of: moslems, communists and perverts. All three are bad for Freedom, bad for America’s social and cultural health and very bad for children. On this there can be no compromise, no tolerance and no acceptance.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  122. @JD:If that activist atty is not pushing this on behalf of the gay parents, I was mistaken.

    You are mistaken. But it’s not your fault.

    That attorney is an activist on YOUR side. He brought that “bathroom bill” to the voters so they could vote it down, unambiguously. Houston’s mayor had proposed it, then withdrawn it, and he wanted the record to show that when the voters were given a say they definitively repudiated it.

    It’s Texas, all is not as it appears. :)

    To recap: only Christians so far have brought any lawsuits against this day care on this issue.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  123. Steve57 (bcaa38) — 11/12/2015 @ 12:49 pm

    Well done, sir.

    felipe (56556d)

  124. “Some day soon the Boy Scout “pedophile” problem will be “unexpectedly” detected to everybody’s surprise.”

    – Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie

    The Boy Scout pedophile problem has been around for decades – decades where gay scout masters were categorically disallowed from service.

    The earliest documented evidence of child sexual abuse by Catholic clergy that I’ve seen, personally, is from 1947 – which, mathematically speaking, occurred prior to the 1970s. Also, many of the thousands of children who were sexually abused by Catholic clergy over the decades (before and after the 1970s) were, in fact, girls.

    So… your father was right. It shocks me that this is still a thing.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  125. @Steve57:Then why are you actively collaborating with the cure, while observing it is worse than the disease?

    Defending the right of an employer to fire whom they want is not anti-freedom.

    Which brings us full circle to this day care firing these Christians. The fact of the matter is you are not free to have your own religion despite a business being nominally “private.” It isn’t. When there is a state religion, your business already has a religion. And in America that state religion has tenets concerning gay marriage, abortion, contraceptives/abortifacients, global warming, racism, and of course transgendered children.

    Right, and you want the right to do it the other way. I, on the other hand, deny this power to you all.

    I do not like your Red fascism any more than I like the Blue. Freedom is better.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  126. Thank you Leviticus. If these problems date back that far and I’m sure farther then you point out, it shows the necessity of keeping perverts far away from children. It shocks me too that this is still a thing as you say but apparently the powers that be never learn to keep the pervs away from the kiddies. Perhaps if we treated these perversions as the psychosexual disorders they are and actually treated these poor souls they could be helped and many children’s lives not ruined.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  127. Why is it surprising unless one ignores romans, corinthians, timothy, collosians, and a few others.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  128. There is no federal rule making trannies a protected class in public accommodations, yet.
    There is no State of Texas rule making trannies a protected class in public accommodations.
    There is no City of Katy ordinance making trannies a protected class in public accommodations.

    What there probably are, are 3,000 or so pages of State of Texas administrative regulations for daycare centers. I may be exaggerating the number, there may be only 2,999 pages ;), but as business friendly as Texas purports to be, it has an awful administrative bureaucracy. Remember the case of the hair-braider required to have a full-fledged beauty salon with six sinks? So that’s what the daycare is likely fearing the most, if it “discriminates” against the kid. Not a lawsuit but a complaint, and action against its license.

    nk (dbc370)

  129. Thanks, as always, nk.

    That attorney is an activist on YOUR side. He brought that “bathroom bill” to the voters so they could vote it down, unambiguously. Houston’s mayor had proposed it, then withdrawn it, and he wanted the record to show that when the voters were given a say they definitively repudiated it.
    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/12/2015 @ 3:56 pm

    Well, that was very interesting and something I had no idea of.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  130. Gabriel Hanna:

    To recap: only Christians so far have brought any lawsuits against this day care on this issue

    Because only Christians have been damaged. That’s how the law works.

    However, I looked this daycare facility up and you’re right that it provides after-school learning as well as daycare. Six to twelve-year-olds are grouped together in the after-school facility. The Fort Worth-based parent group says it is the leading values-based educational system in the U.S. The parent promote its academics, character and safety, while the Katy facility’s mission statement says its curriculum focuses on character values, literacy and numeracy.

    It’s also true that the only attorneys who have publicly spoken out have done so on behalf of the plaintiff employees who lost their jobs. It may be they were the only attorneys involved and that the Katy daycare owner acted unilaterally and without advice of counsel. I think it is unlikely he acted without first consulting the parent group and multiple attorneys, but if he did then I think he will regret it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  131. joe:

    it is a private day care, so the day care can fire and hire anyone they want.

    Not exactly. It’s true that Texas law authorizes at-will employment, unless there is a specific employment contract. However, while employees can be hired and fired at will, the hiring and firing process must be lawful, i.e., the employer cannot discriminate based on age, race, gender, religion, etc. In addition, Texas law also requires that potential employees pass background checks in order to work at licensed day care facilities.

    DRJ (15874d)

  132. I may still have been unkind to the daycare center. From my own experiences with the daughter’s pre-school and, later, after-school babysitting, of the daughter in a second-ring suburb similar to Katy, I would venture that the daycare center’s first concern was not the legal issue. That it was that the little girl would not be bullied or harassed and made unhappy. Daycare centers want their kids to go there willingly, smiling and happy to be there. (And so do the kids’ parents.)

    nk (dbc370)

  133. Are you sure that Mayor Parker withdrew the HERO ordinance? I don’t think she did, nor did she have the power to that. My understanding is that the Houston City Council passed the ordinance in May 2014 and the recent vote in Houston repealed it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  134. I endorse the notion of people patronizing businesses that support your values. For instance, shop at Chick-fil-a if you like their values and don’t shop there if you don’t. Parents could and should do that here, but there may not be as many choices in daycare facilities as there are in fast food places. How many parents can or want to drive their kids 10-20 extra miles a day to find another facility, if one is even available and has openings?

    What perplexes me is why this has to be an issue. Lots of kids flirt with changing their gender when they are young, just as they change their names and what kind of clothes they wear. Little boys sometimes want to wear pink tutus and little girls want to wear Dallas Cowboy jerseys and helmets. Part of being a child is pretending to be someone else and I’m sure that has happened at every daycare in America, but this sounds like more than that. This sounds like parents who insisted the daycare facility change their child’s gender status.

    DRJ (15874d)

  135. Leviticus @125 and Rev. H.@ 127

    Paedophile priests were a known problem back in the Middle Ages and Renaissance. One Renaissance cleric was a composer who was sentenced to the galleys for relations with a young boy, survived his sentence, and ended his life in Rome, still a priest and still composing. Back when I was a teenager, c. 1975, it was silently assumed that many priests were gay, because celibacy gave them an honorable way to answer the question, “Why don’t you get married?”. If you ever saw the original French version of La Cage aux Folles, you will remember that the final, wordless, joke in the film was the image of an obviously gay priest presiding at the marriage.

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  136. I quite understand that there have been “pedophile” priests since there have been priests. But the recent scandal of priests was not so much pedophile as they were predatory homosexual priests. The scandal was just sold to a brain-phuked public as “pedophile” so as not to cause a problem for homos. If it was called “Priest queers phuking your little dears” gays would have been hanged.

    Sometimes I think you guys don’t understand how the whole screw America program is being sold.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  137. Psycho marathon running on Chiller.

    This is kind of a life imitating classic horror story isn’t it?

    Mom turning her daughter into a projection of her own penis envy. That’s Hitchcockian.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  138. @DRJ:My understanding is that the Houston City Council passed the ordinance in May 2014 and the recent vote in Houston repealed it.

    You are right, I do not have the full story.

    The council passed it, and Adam Taylor sued and won to make sure that it got on the ballot for the voters to reject. From your article:

    “Almost immediately, conservative activists and pastors began collecting signatures to petition a referendum or repeal of the ordinance. City officials later ruled that they hadn’t collected enough signatures, prompting a lawsuit from the opponents.

    The ordinance had been in effect for about three months when it was put on hold as the legal challenge made its way through the courts. In April, a state district judge ruled in favor of the city, saying opponents of the ordinance had not gathered enough valid signatures.

    The case went to the Texas Supreme Court, which in July told the city council it had to consider a valid referendum petition and repeal the ordinance or put it up for public vote.”

    Gabriel Hanna (3d00f8)

  139. Thanks to all for wanting clarity.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  140. I didn’t have a chance to comment on this post at all, as I literally only had time to throw it up this morning and dash off to work, so I won’t rehash what’s already been said, but I will say that given what we see in the public school system, where a new “doctrine” is introduced (choose any social issue) and a clear “side” is taken and view espoused (which typically contradicts mine), I think that this is a pre-cursor to that. The staff, while wanting to keep the child from being bullied, etc., was also making sure the indoctrination started from the get-go. Why not notify parents beforehand? If they were concerned about keeping parents happy and the relationship with them open, why not send a letter home of the impending “change” and express the school’s pov, and go from there? Why not show respect for the parents and their children by recognizing that it is the parents’ decision on how to proceed? Their behavior reflected an utter lack of respect and concern for any parent other than the two men involved. This is how it works in public schools, this is how it is now working at the colleges: one or two complaints and everyone else has to acquiesce and submit.

    If I were one of the parents, I would pull my kids out of that childcare center simply on the basis of the disrespect shown me and my child. That would be a big red flag. If they’re willing to kowtow to one set of parents’ demands and ignore the others, that doesn’t show me that they regard all families as equal partners in the caretaking of their children.

    Dana (86e864)

  141. Yes, kish, a problem of longstanding… https://t.co/0EVw6gTjOh

    Colonel Haiku (fabf46)

  142. Heh. I like your humor, nk.

    DRJ (15874d)

  143. Wrong thread but I bet nk will see it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  144. Bleech, Haiku! Here’s a palate cleanser folks. https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/4b/0d/91/4b0d918130a995337bb1bb5914181ff8.jpg

    You know, kids are more capable of coming to terms with the world than adults sometimes.

    nk (dbc370)

  145. Gabriel – he is not on my side, and your sanctimonious BS gets pretty tiring.

    JD (34f761)

  146. dear god please to help this squirrely pansy texas child develop some really special and valuable skills and talents

    lil pickle’s gonna need em

    happyfeet (831175)

  147. Still attacking the six-year old instead of her fudgepacking “parents”? Really? Under what logic?

    nk (dbc370)

  148. who needs logic

    trannies are self-centered and creepy

    yuck

    happyfeet (831175)

  149. god i’m so over the whole let’s have compassion for the nasty trannies thing

    happyfeet (831175)

  150. A six-year old girl whose pervert “daddies” decided they wanted a boy is a tranny, self-centered and creepy. Ok, then.

    nk (dbc370)

  151. that doesn’t mean i have to give two craps about this nasty disgusting he/she freak child

    there’s so many more worthy failmericans what I can expend my limited and dwindling stores of compassion and understanding upon

    outlier freaks are outlier freaks

    and that aptly describes both the parents and this weirdo kid

    they don’t represent anything at all

    we call this statistical significance

    happyfeet (831175)

  152. Well, no. These ladies are dead wrong and since they didn’t quit they should have been fired. It’s none of their business and the kid does not need the grief of being told one thing at home and another at the daycare

    The story out of Katy, Texas is an ideological Rorschach test in which depending on one’s gut instincts, the authority figure of the parents, or the authority figure of the teachers/staffers or the authority figure of the boss/administration can be flipped backward and forward, to make one side look good, one side to look bad. IOW, alter the particulars of whose proverbial ox is being gored, and the parents/administration looks good or pathetic or the teachers/staffers look good or pathetic.

    My gut instincts in this case say the parents (and — surprise, surprise — gay leftists most probably?) sound like creeps or weirdos and the school is weird for believing transgenderism should be taught to kindergarten-age children.

    If conservatives at a daycare center (in an alternative universe—since few right-leaning folks would be guilty of such amazingly poor hypothetical judgment) wanted 6-year-olds taught the virtue of abstinence, would liberals deem that a good thing?

    When people snort about someone or something being freaky or weird in this current era, that no longer necessarily is to be interpreted as a put-down or bad thing.

    Obama’s America 2015.

    Next up: America Redux Ancient Greece 400 BC, where the prevailing mentality was so deranged (so sickly weird), that pedophilia was widely practiced and apparently didn’t elicit much of a raised eyebrow.

    Mark (f713e4)

  153. So if your kid is fascinated by Peter Pan, it’s fine to have his left hand cut off so he can be Captain Hook?

    Richard Aubrey (472a6f)

  154. Since this is an after-school daycare program, that means there is a school on Katy that is dealing with the same issue. I doubt the school will fire any teachers who have a problem with this. I also suspect the school district psychologist will get involved, as well as lawyers. I hope it can be resolved privately.

    DRJ (15874d)

  155. Dana (86e864) — 11/12/2015 @ 6:08 pm

    a new “doctrine” is introduced (choose any social issue) and a clear “side” is taken and view espoused (which typically contradicts mine)

    They do that, because it is supposed to be correct – as well as important. </b

    And some people know very well that the truth of the doctrine is not at all clear. Which is why they are so insistent and have noo patience for arguing the merits. In any case, they brook no disagreement (where it matters) and we are seeing more and more of this.

    If you say that it is possible they might be wrong, you’re immediately arguing with them on the substance, which is what you are trying to avoid doing.

    This will go on until they pick the wrong subject to be infallible on.

    But no, they don’t even say they are infallible, both because when that is spelled out it is absurd to claim and because a claim of infallability already admits the possibility of error.

    What they say has got to be accepted as being as clear as the claim that the sun rises in the east, and, what’s more, it is unfair and hurtful to someone to dispute it, so don’t. This is all sometimes backed up by lawsuits, or even court rulings, and sometimes also by protests. Until they, or someone, carries it too far which, inevitably, they will.

    Sammy Finkelman (0a978b)

  156. 116. I was making sense a second ago – enough for you to diagnose my indoctrination, anyway.

    Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/12/2015 @ 1:53 pm

    No, you weren’t making sense. You were just consistent enough to reveal your programming. And I pick up on those sorts of things. For instance.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAQvTFnNNGQ

    Neil Cavuto embarrasses student who wants free college and has no idea how to pay for it

    The national organizing airhead of the “million student march” drags in the “inequitable corporate” system of education by the 34 second mark. And demands a more
    equitable system. Guess what that would be?

    And gee, where have I heard this terminology before? Oh, that’s right. From Barack Obama’s mentor, Bill Ayers, the unrepentant commie radical and bomber.

    http://www.city-journal.org/html/16_3_ed_school.html

    The Ed Schools’ Latest—and Worst—Humbug
    Teaching for “social justice” is a cruel hoax on disadvantaged kids.

    It’s a cruel hoax, but not just for disadvantaged kids. Every kid exposed to what has become a hotbed of systemic child abuse.

    …“homelessness as a consequence of the private dealings of landlords, an arms buildup as a consequence of corporate decisions, racial exclusion as a consequence of a private property-holder’s choice.” In other words, they should turn the little ones into young socialists and critical theorists.

    …Teaching science for social justice? Let Teachers College professor Angela Calabrese Barton, the volume’s principal author, try to explain: “The marriages between capitalism and education and capitalism and science have created a foundation for science education that emphasizes corporate values at the expense of social justice and human dignity.” The alternative? “Science pedagogy framed around social justice concerns can become a medium to transform individuals, schools, communities, the environment, and science itself, in ways that promote equity and social justice. Creating a science education that is transformative implies not only how science is a political activity but also the ways in which students might see and use science and science education in ways transformative of the institutional and interpersonal power structures that play a role in their lives.” If you still can’t appreciate why it’s necessary for your child’s chemistry teacher to teach for social justice, you are probably hopelessly wedded to reason, empiricism, individual merit, and other capitalist and post-colonialist deformities.

    You are, Leviticus, like this young lady, a product of your indoctrination. No, you don’t make sense. But you can’t help but show the symptoms.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  157. 126. …Right, and you want the right to do it the other way. I, on the other hand, deny this power to you all.

    I do not like your Red fascism any more than I like the Blue. Freedom is better.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/12/2015 @ 4:03 pm

    What “other way” do you imagine I want to do it? Get gay-married, I don’t care. But that’s the key point. You back the people who want to use big government to make me care. My other way is I don’t have to take someone’s fake marriage seriously, even if the state signed off on it.

    Go someplace else if you want a freakin’ cake!

    You’re the fascist supporter, Gabriel. Which is why I could never be a libertarian. Because of the willful blindness.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  158. You can not have “marriage equality” without fascists enforcing that false equality, Gabriel.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  159. Mr. Gabriel is not a fascist supporter

    I would know

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  160. Getting back to the topic at hand, the anti-American, anti-Western Civilization has long been fixated on using children to undo what they considered bourgeois morality and values. The current assault on the “bourgeois” idea that there even are such things as boys and girls is just the latest assault on what they rightly recognize as the basic unit of the society that they hate.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/the-sexual-revolution-and-children-how-the-left-took-things-too-far-a-702679.html

    Germany’s left has its own tales of abuse. One of the goals of the German 1968 movement was the sexual liberation of children. For some, this meant overcoming all sexual inhibitions, creating a climate in which even pedophilia was considered progressive.

    Amusing. “Took.” As if any of this is past tense.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  161. @Steve57: You back the people who want to use big government to make me care.

    You see this through an identity lens–if I’m against the Christians on this issue, I must not be Team Red, therefore I support Team Blue and all its works.

    I see this through a principle lens: that of free association.

    If it were a Christian daycare who fired non-Christian employees for using the wrong pronouns and the non-Christians suing, you would be on the other side, against the lawsuit, calling it oppression of Christians. I would be on the same side, calling for the right of free association.

    So you are much, much closer to fascism than I. I am not calling for the government to do anything but butt out. You want its big fat thumb picking winners and losers, provided they pick your way.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  162. *…Getting back to the topic at hand, the anti-American, anti-Western Civilization totalitarian left has

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  163. Gabriel @162. Wow, it’s like you know me. Not.

    160. Mr. Gabriel is not a fascist supporter

    I would know

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 11/13/2015 @ 12:29 pm

    Tell Mr. Gabriel he’s not a fascist supporter. He’s h3ll bent on proving my point.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  164. @steve57:Tell Mr. Gabriel he’s not a fascist supporter. He’s h3ll bent on proving my point.

    Yes, I am calling for the government to ruthlessly leave people alone.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  165. the evil demented narcissistic trannies are tearing this country apart

    they’re turning neighbor against neighbor

    brother against brother

    they’re ruining cup season and they don’t even care

    and it’s breaking my heart

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  166. Well, when you consider that “Western Civilization” has been all about government intrusion into people’s private business for hundreds of years… maybe calling for the government to leave people alone is, in fact, an attack on “Western Civilization.”

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  167. the category error is strong in this one, we all understood the family the church and the school were reinforcing institutions in society, that served as the bulwarks against overweening state power,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  168. 162. …I see this through a principle lens: that of free association.

    If it were a Christian daycare who fired non-Christian employees for using the wrong pronouns and the non-Christians suing, you would be on the other side, against the lawsuit, calling it oppression of Christians. I would be on the same side, calling for the right of free association.

    So you are much, much closer to fascism than I. I am not calling for the government to do anything but butt out. You want its big fat thumb picking winners and losers, provided they pick your way.
    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/13/2015 @ 12:35 pm

    How dense is this guy? When the DoJ is constantly putting it’s thumb on the scale consistently on one side of issues there is no such thing as free association.

    This is why you’re a fascist supporter, Gabriel. This is what I meant by libertarian willful blindness.

    While you’ve been living under your rock, Gabriel…

    http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/supreme_court_considers_whether_fired_lutheran_teacher_may_sue_for_retaliat/

    …Scalia said repeatedly in oral arguments that the school was protected from suit, the Washington Post reports. “It’s none of the business of the government to decide what the substantial interest of the church is,” he said.

    http://www.cnsnews.com/blog/terence-p-jeffrey/doj-feds-can-tell-church-who-its-ministers-will-be

    …In yet another stunning attack on freedom of religion, President Barack Obama’s Justice Department asked the Supreme Court last week to give the federal government the power to tell a church who its ministers will be.

    The case involves a former teacher at Lutheran school, who along with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is pushing a claim that a Lutheran congregation should be forced to restore her ministry position.

    …freedom of association ceased to exist.

    And now you libertarians are splitting the difference between an actual fascist totalitarian left and an some imaginary conservative fascism that exists solely in your own head.

    And you’re the sane one in your fantasy.

    This is why America will never elect one of you loons.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  169. “You are, Leviticus, like this young lady, a product of your indoctrination. No, you don’t make sense. But you can’t help but show the symptoms.”

    – WeirdSteve

    Well… glad to help, I guess. I’m a helpful guy.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  170. Leviticus, that is not a sane understanding of Western Civilization. That’s what I meant when I said that you can’t help but betray your programming.

    As I said, somewhere in the fiery underworld Horkheimer and Marcuse are smiling.

    You know nothing of Western Civilization.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  171. @Steve57:This is why you’re a fascist supporter, Gabriel. This is what I meant by libertarian willful blindness.

    Well, you are the one saying war is peace, freedom is slavery, and opposing government interference is supporting government interference.

    It’s dull, what you’re doing, claiming that I am saying the opposite of what I am saying. It’s pointless too. Anyone can read what I wrote, compare it to what you say, and see that you are lying.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  172. I’m more concerned about what “Western Civilization” knows about me, at this point. Enjoy the fishbowl you’ve built for yourself.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  173. @Steve57:That’s what I meant when I said that you can’t help but betray your programming.

    You are also the one claiming that false consciousness is what prevents your opponents from agreeing with you….

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  174. @Steve57: Here’s another guy you can call a fascist:

    It’s s simple solution requiring no lawsuits.

    The people running the center can decide whether they want to keep these employees, and/or whether they want to institute policies about how the children should be treated.

    If the employees don’t like the policies they can leave or be fired.

    If the parents don’t like the policies they can stop sending the child to the center.

    Anyone involving lawyers, on either side, should be . . . fill in the blank.

    Patterico (86c8ed) — 11/12/2015 @ 7:20 am

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  175. “You are also the one claiming that false consciousness is what prevents your opponents from agreeing with you….”

    – Gabriel Hanna

    That’s Different ™

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  176. this is katy texas, and you can be fired for speaking the truth, that this a tragic case of child abuse, visited by the parents,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  177. 170. …Well… glad to help, I guess. I’m a helpful guy.

    Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/13/2015 @ 12:51 pm

    You are a helpful guy. You have no idea how helpful.

    You do realize, Leviticus, that people die trying to get to Western Civilization from h3llholes where governments really do intrude on every aspect of people’s lives? Where the very idea of privacy is outlawed. It used to be to risk getting killed crossing the Berlin wall. Now it’s still trying to cross the strait from Cuba to Florida. Or across the Yalu River from North Korea to China so they could make it to the reasonably free outpost of quasi-Western Civilization in the South of Korea.

    You’d think it would make a dent that the traffic is almost 100% one way. The only people trying to escape the US to Cuba, for instance, being convicted totalitarian leftist cop killers and fugitives.

    But, no. Your indoctrination has long taken root.

    We are witnessing the suicide of the West, the most free, the highest form of civilization the world has ever seen. And from university chancellors in the US to the chancellor of Germany none of my “betters” can find the words to defend the only civilization on earth that people will die trying to get to.

    Yes, you are a very helpful guy. More than you ever dreamed when you typed those words.
    I can. But then I was career military. The only institution left that knows anything about the rest of the world, apparently. And knows in their bones why this civilization must be defended.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  178. A lot of people here, including yourself, are calling for government force to be used against parents with no evidence whatever of any harm to the child.

    When you invoke child abuse, that is what you are calling for.
    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 11/12/2015 @ 12:28 pm

    So Gabriel Hannah, if you call the police, you are calling for a police state? Why do you advocate raising the bar “a damn sight more” before people can report an issue of concern to CPS? What evidence do you want? Is it the responsibility of the caller to gather evidence? Is concern not enough for you?

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  179. Gabriel, you mean in the same alternate universe where if I don’t want to bake a cake for a gay couple’s wedding, they have no recourse except to go somewhere else?

    What color is the sky in your rubber room, Gabriel?

    Nice appeal to authority, by the way.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  180. Yes, you are a very helpful guy. More than you ever dreamed when you typed those words.
    I can. But then I was career military. The only institution left that knows anything about the rest of the world, apparently. And knows in their bones why this civilization must be defended.
    Steve57 (bcaa38) — 11/13/2015 @ 1:05 pm

    This is an example of the cut and paste errors my optical mouse does all by its lonesome. I would never have deliberately ordered my sentences this way.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  181. 154.

    So if your kid is fascinated by Peter Pan, it’s fine to have his left hand cut off so he can be Captain Hook?

    Well, they’re not doing that, yet.

    It is happening with some adults.

    Sammy Finkelman (0a978b)

  182. Leviticus, I realize you’ve been trained to believe that Western Civilization has failed to live up to your expectations.

    What your indoctrinators left out is that you wouldn’t have those expectations but for the moral superiority of Western Civilization.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  183. 176. “You are also the one claiming that false consciousness is what prevents your opponents from agreeing with you….”

    – Gabriel Hanna

    That’s Different ™

    Leviticus (f9a067) — 11/13/2015 @ 1:01 pm

    Leviticus and Gabriel give you the Psychotic Convergence that portends the apocalypse.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  184. You sound paranoid when you say stuff like that.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  185. You spelled “amused” wrong, Leviticus.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  186. “You spelled “amused” wrong, Leviticus.”

    – Steve57

    Another product of my false consciousness, no doubt.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  187. @188, if that’s what your cult leaders tell you to think…

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  188. 187. meanwhile back at the ranch:

    http://therightscoop.com/breaking-paris-under-terrorist-attack-multiple-explosions-and-deaths-reported/

    narciso (ee1f88) — 11/13/2015 @ 1:51 pm

    This shall not pass!

    Quick. Leviticus. Tell us which American college administrators should be fired.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  189. As I said university chancellors can’t defend Western Civilization. And Leviticus is capable of snark.

    But what of it?

    Turn to, and carry out the Plan of the Day.

    Steve57 (bcaa38)

  190. Time for a world wide round-up of these followers of the pedophile mohamhead.

    mg (31009b)

  191. Patterico needs to close the Leviticus-Gabriel loophole. For sensible comment control. For the sake of Western Civilization. And for the children.

    nk (dbc370)

  192. nonono is red cup season

    we can’t treat people like rudolphs

    except for trannies

    happyfeet (a037ad)


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