The GOP Candidates Talk Future Debates
[guest post by Dana]
This past Sunday found most of the GOP campaign representatives huddled together in an effort to regain control of the GOP debates after last week’s CNBC debacle.
Ben Carson and Donald Trump, the two outsiders currently leading the pack at a combined 50% in polling, reminded the other camps that it is they who bring in the ratings (both in polling and for the networks) as it was Carson who initiated the conference, and it was Trump’s campaign that neatly shut down the establishment favorite’s camp: when Jeb Bush’s campaign manager, Danny Diaz, suggested that the candidates proceed with the already-scheduled, yet currently “suspended” NBC debate (being held in partnership with Telemundo), Trump’s campaign manager said no, “If you do that,” he said, “Trump walks.” According to the report, Diaz dropped his head in apparent defeat.
The meeting did generate some agreement:
Shortly after 8 p.m., the meeting ended with a tentative consensus. No one had figured out how to satisfy 14 campaigns that all wanted prime time spotlights. But everyone agreed that the debates needed opening and closing statements — 30 seconds would be fine. (Several campaigns felt that CNBC had reneged on a similar idea, turning opening statements into a hectoring opening question about the candidates’ greatest weaknesses.) Everyone wanted equal speaking time, untethered to moderator prerogatives or candidates’ polling positions. And everyone wanted the candidates to choose the moderators, reducing the role of the Republican National Committee to logistics and ticketing.
Not agreed on by the frontrunners, however, was Lindsay Graham’s idea to randomly draw names for two separate debates.
Yesterday, bucking his rivals, Trump’s campaign announced that he would go it alone and negotiate his terms directly with the network executives about the upcoming debates.
And how did the networks react to this brash move? Not well:
The maneuvering by Trump and the other Republican candidates was met with annoyance by network executives, who said they have little interest in altering a process they believe was settled months ago.
We agreed to this and now you’re saying you’re not agreeing?” said one executive who was granted anonymity in order to speak candidly.
“Do you want Ben Carson deciding who your moderators are? The answer is no,” said another. “Do you want Bobby Jindal’s campaign dictating how the debates will be run when Bobby Jindal may not even be in the race much longer?”
Suggestions have been made to ditch the networks altogether and broadcast future debates over the internet, as well as having conservatives moderators such as Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck involved.
You can read a copy of the new debate demands compiled by GOP attorney Ben Ginsberg after Sunday’s meeting.
However, as shrewdly observed when it came out that the executive in charge of the CNBC debate formerly worked in the Clinton White House for Al Gore and his wife “donated $2,700 to Hillary For America on June 23, just four months before the CNBC debate”:
The Republican campaigns have agreed to cut the Republican National Committee out of the debate process and instead negotiate directly with the networks. Well, fine and dandy. You’re still negotiating with Clinton hacks. I mean, even after this, it’s like I told you after the CNBC debate, all these stories about how embarrassed everybody was and how negative the coverage seemed to be, don’t kid yourself. They look at this as mission accomplished. Because the questions were what were important, the questions were the bullets, the questions were the attacks. The answers were incidental. The questions were designed to explain to the viewers who these Republicans are. The questions were what was used to be destructive.
The icing on the cake was however they were answered, and even now when the Republicans object to it, the Drive-Bys are saying, “The Republicans are whining and they’re childish and they can’t take a little heat and they can’t take a little adversity.” They got exactly what they want, and they’re applauding themselves behind the scenes, wherever they go to congregate, whatever bar, restaurant, locations they visit, I guarantee you they’re all patting each other on the back for what happened at the CNBC debate.
This is about malice and intent, not tough questions.
To put a further point on it, Joe Scarborough was very good yesterday when he slammed the obvious media bias and poor Mark Halperin got caught in the line of fire:
*Note: The Washington Post’s “concern” about this is, well, amusing…
–Dana
Good morning.
Dana (86e864) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:37 amGood morning, Dana. Don’t blame me, I voted for Dukakis.
nk (9faaca) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:46 amJoe is returning to reasonable. Halperin is a clown, he was the perfect foil for that rant.
JD (957967) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:53 amThe primary debates should be with moderators that are not enemies. Fox News did not do a good job, either. They were like high school kids. CSPAN could do it if they would. For Moderators, I suggest they get older well known Republican media figures, few as they are. I would suggest George Will, Bill Kristol and Hugh Hewitt.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:10 amThere’s a link today at the drudgreport.com to a Youtube video of Hillary supporters saying they wouldn’t mind Sharia Law being implemented in America.
Okay. Give it to them good and hard. And then force them to live in one of the citadels of liberalism (ie, any place where over 90-plus percent of a populace loves liberals/Democrats): Detroit, Michigan.
Mark (f713e4) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:44 amTo Mark Halperin “I am sure there were some very nice Nazis too” does nothing to invalidate “The Nazis were evil.”
“I am sure there are some Republicans in major news media and executives” does nothing in invalidate “Liberals run the media and that bias shows 24 by 7”
Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d) — 11/3/2015 @ 8:25 amThe only conservative guy I can think of at ABC the past 50 years was David Brinkley. I don’t know if he was a Republican, I doubt it, but those were the days when Democrats were not all left wingers.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 11/3/2015 @ 8:48 amWe should just get Brian Lamb to act as the questioner in all the debates.
Joe Miller (64cdc0) — 11/3/2015 @ 9:10 amPunch back
Colonel Haiku (436b69) — 11/3/2015 @ 9:16 amtwice three times four timesfive times as hard.I hear that as saying republicans can’t be objective, only democrats can be objective. And they wonder why so many don’t trust the media.
Tanny O'Haley (c674c7) — 11/3/2015 @ 9:18 amI think the ones who don’t want to participate in the NBC debate should get together and arrange their own competing internet debate along the lines people have been suggesting, i.e. with conservative questioners. Anyone who agrees to be on the NBC debate doesn’t get to be in it. Let’s say it’s only Carson, Trump and Cruz. Which campaigns do you think would get a bigger boost, theirs or the others? The fact they’d each get a lot of speaking time would be huge in itself. Snubbing NBC would be a major positive in the minds of conservative voters.
Gerald A (5dca03) — 11/3/2015 @ 9:25 amI want another CNBC debate debacle. It displays the media bias as left and gives the republican candidates an opportunity to show courage. It gives republicans the opportunity to put the media in their place without the appearance of being whiny.
Every time they get a left wing talking point question, the republican candidate can say, “that was a stupid question, why don’t you ask me about …”, then proceed to answer their own question. This shows the audience what a hack the questioner is and allows the candidate to articulate their campaign position.
Tanny O'Haley (c674c7) — 11/3/2015 @ 9:31 amWith an opening field of at least sixteen legitimate candidates the better format for debates would be DEBATE. One-on-one, head to head, dialog/dialectic between pairs of candidates, in a tournament style series of half-hour broadcasts. Maybe — MAYBE — allow media talking heads a role in “seeding” the contenders, doing introductions, tossing the coin, and keeping time. Otherwise, let the coin-toss winning candidate take a position and advance it for 8 minutes or so, (break for TV commercial) then let the opponent do a rebuttal. After another commercial break, the second candidate chooses and advances a new proposition for 8 minutes; then another commercial, then the first guy comes back to do his own rebuttal. Commercial. Back to a new coin toss, and then each (in order by the toss) gets a chance to offer an “analysis” about his own priorities versus his opponents’.
Viewers at home use reality-TV technology to vote winners. Double elimination rules apply, so even the guy who loses to, say, the front-runner may have a chance to come back against a string of other one-round losers.
Rinse-and-repeat every night thru a Sweet Sixteen season.
I can’t see how this would be any worse than “Dancing with the Stars” or “Survivor”.
Pouncer (d90bef) — 11/3/2015 @ 9:34 am“And they’re half right. There were plenty of problems with many of the questions the candidates got asked. But it has nothing to do with liberal bias.”
It’s always “half right”, never “right” – can’t give any credit. And then comes the bald faced lie. “No liberal bias.”
No sense of self awarenes.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 11/3/2015 @ 10:28 amWell, that can’t be. Liberals who repeatedly support Obama and denounce conservatives insist there is absolutely no left-wing bias in the media. They wouldn’t lie, would they?
😉
tops116 (d094f8) — 11/3/2015 @ 11:06 amThe sad thing is, tops116, I don’t believe they think they’re lying at all. I believe they think themselves moderates with open minds and just as open hearts who believe in fair play. Which is why they can’t be negotiated or compromised with they must be eradicated. (I always wanted to use “eradicated” in a sentence).
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 11/3/2015 @ 11:43 amlets have michael weiner savage alan jones mark levine moderate the republican debates so we can find out who is the most fascistic!
beni (dbd574) — 11/3/2015 @ 12:04 pmSigning up for the MSM debate format was not an accident. Reince and the boys down at the RNC believed – and correctly – that the mainstream moderators, whether liberal or conservative, would go out of their way to shut down out-of-the-fold candidates. What they didn’t anticipate was that a candidate like Trump would actually benefit from the ham-handed bashing that somehow represents modern journalism. Only in retrospect does their strategy seem ill conceived. To them, at the time, it must have seemed like a brilliant stratagem and one that had worked to their advantage in previous campaign seasons. Not such clever boots, are they?
The best way forward for conservative interests is to always and everywhere undermine the authority of the RNC. Right now, it means that out-of-the-fold candidates should organize their own debates and exclude any candidate who refuses to withdraw from the RNC-sponsored debates. The Democrats are our opponents; the RNC and their well-funded puppets are our enemy because we are clearly theirs.
ThOR (a52560) — 11/3/2015 @ 12:51 pmMoney, the mother’s milk of politics, will stop flowing to the RNC if they lose control of their constituency. Without that money, they are nothing.
ThOR (a52560) — 11/3/2015 @ 1:08 pmSeek help, Perry
JD (957967) — 11/3/2015 @ 1:23 pmhttp://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/03/sen-ben-sasses-maiden-floor-speech-since-the-people-despise-us-all-why-even-have-a-u-s-senate/
mg (31009b) — 11/3/2015 @ 1:54 pmSmart flyovercountryman.
The sad thing is, tops116, I don’t believe they think they’re lying at all. I believe they think themselves moderates with open minds and just as open hearts who believe in fair play. Which is why they can’t be negotiated or compromised with they must be eradicated. (I always wanted to use “eradicated” in a sentence).
I heard this discussed this morning: why was Charlie Rose so flabbergasted when Rubio accused Hillary of lying and even in the face of his proof? Because they have truly been stunted by the media bubble they live in. They don’t even consider that other reasonable, smart people might think differently than they do. Rubio went against orthodoxy. Rose’s bubble of info is shockingly narrow and limited. They never think they are lying because, of course, it is they who are the truth bearers. Who else possibly could be??
Rose was less shocked by the accusation than he was that seeing the media narrative not only thrown out, but directly challenged by emails. Play by the rules, Rubio! The interaction was a reflection of the very problem conservatives face every news cycle. This is why the left doesn’t – frankly can’t even grasp why the CNBC debacle mattered so much, and was so telling.
Dana (930b30) — 11/3/2015 @ 2:08 pmcharlie rose, is not the smartest knife in the cubbard, dana,
http://variety.com/2007/scene/markets-festivals/clinton-obama-just-say-no-to-fox-1117962755/
there’s a legendary clip of his ignorance re Obama in 2008, along with brokaw
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 2:31 pmif there were a third, it would have been the three monkeys,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzMas1bVidw
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 2:33 pmDoesn’t matter, narciso, because he has the required creds: Duke-educated professional journalist…. Who are we to argue with that pedigree?
Dana (930b30) — 11/3/2015 @ 2:38 pmthe Dems have pointed no real piercing questions, as they are regaled by the former employees of Tom Harkin (F. Chuck), Chelsea’s mother in law, (Tapper) and whoever they have lined up on CBS,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:14 pm#23 Quite special isn’t it. One Right of Center Channel and they get not one DemoKKKrat Debate. But Republicans must take 80% of their debates on the Liberal channels.
Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:15 pmIt will be genuinely interesting to see how well Trump — the self-proclaimed master of the Art of the Deal (which apparently he defines to include dragging all your investors and creditors through bankruptcy court repeatedly) — does in “going it alone” in these negotiations.
People say Trump is unpredictable. That’s wrong. Trump makes every decision based on what he deems best for Trump and the Trump Brand, 24/7/365. And if he makes a promise to you, you can predict with absolute confidence that he’ll break it the very instant he decides that keeping that promise would be inconsistent with his plans for Trump and the Trump Brand. And he’ll brag about how smart he was to do that (a la “I was smart to get out of Atlantic City” — i.e., leave billions of dollars of creditors with less than a penny on the dollar — “when I did”).
Perhaps he will surprise us now. But Beldar predicts:
Trump will use this “going alone” stunt as yet another device to grab press and public attention, and some piece of the ultimate agreement will be something for which Trump will claim credit (a la “Nobody was talking about immigration before me”). But it won’t actually accomplish anything substantive.
Beldar (fa637a) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:18 pm(I case you’re wondering: No, I’m not warming to Donald Trump.)
Beldar (fa637a) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:19 pmCould he really do worse, then Ginsberg’s bafflegrab, the earlier round the top men, were willing to take the gruel, and like it, then Cain and Trump said no, and we were spared another our of harwood’s harrangue,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:25 pmIt is laughable to think the RNC knows how to negotiate. All they do is grease up and capitulate.
mg (31009b) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:39 pmI think liberals know full well that there are intelligent people who disagree with them, and they also know Hillary (and Bill) are liars. They ignore these facts because they think everyone but them are hopelessly flawed — as opposed to Christians, who have hope for all mankind.
In essence, they are modern-day Puritans who see themselves as the chosen few. If you are chosen, it’s okay to ignore your own flaws while you religiously point out the flaws of others.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:52 pmDRJ – I would go so further to say that *everyone* is flawed. Perfection is impossible for any living system; we all fail in one way or another. The question for me is how to empower people to overcome their failings.
Which is to say: i’m certainly not one of the chosen few, and I don’t think the chosen few, as you describe them, exist or CAN exist.
aphrael (7c2d97) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:54 pmIn essence, they are modern-day Puritans who see themselves as the chosen few.
Yes, this is the key and is not a new phenomenon.
That it is a religion everywhere in America can no longer be in dispute. Judaism is a faith that contains the Orthodox, the Conservative, and the Reformed. Muslims have the Sunnis and Shiites. The Christians have Catholics and Protestants, the latter also split among various branches that include Baptists, Congregationalists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians and more. Hindus are famous for the number and diversity of their gods and goddesses. Buddhists for different sects within their larger faith.
While the religion of liberalism also contains many different gods and goddesses, its adherants are united in a binding faith. No one gets to question The Truth without lawsuits, social isolation, public mockery, and ridicule, the threat of a job denied or lost, a child expelled, and on and on. Examples?
It is a form of Calvinism without, of course, a God.
Today, one of the most powerful religions in the Western World is environmentalism. Environmentalism seems to be the religion of choice for urban atheists. Why do I say it’s a religion? Well, just look at the beliefs. If you look carefully, you see that environmentalism is in fact a perfect 21st century remapping of traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs and myths.
There’s an initial Eden, a paradise, a state of grace and unity with nature, there’s a fall from grace into a state of pollution as a result of eating from the tree of knowledge, and as a result of our actions there is a judgment day coming for us all. We are all energy sinners, doomed to die, unless we seek salvation, which is now called sustainability. Sustainability is salvation in the church of the environment. Just as organic food is its communion, that pesticide-free wafer that the right people with the right beliefs, imbibe.
Heretics will be burned at the stake.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 11/3/2015 @ 3:58 pmyes, we know about them, what deludes our side, supposedly to think they will get a fair shake,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 4:09 pmI think a lot of it began with Jean Jacques Rousseau and his mythical “Noble Savage.”
From Rousseau, we get to Maximilien Robespierre and from Robespierre to the Terror. We are not yet to the Terror. We are only to the Girondin Ministry who were enemies of Robespierre because he was convinced they were corrupt and only he and a few close advisors were incorruptible.
The analogy is that the right thinks the left is mistaken while the left believes the right is evil.
There is nothing new under the sun.
The Terror ended when other members of the Paris Commune burst in upon him as he was writing out an arrest warrant for them.
• July 27: Journee of 9 Thermidor overthrows Robespierre.
• July 28: Robespierre executed, many of his supporters are purged and follow him over the next few days.
He was shot in the jaw and Guillotined the next day.
I would suggest others study the history of the French Revolution and do not give up your guns.
I saw that document in the Musee Carnavalet with Robespierre’s blood on it.
Do not give up your guns.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 11/3/2015 @ 4:14 pmAphrael, you’re definitely to the Left of most people. And that means you’re definitely wrong most of the time. But you are also respectful and willing to see your opponents’ (not enemies’) positions on things. You are a very notable exception to the rule of the Left. And that has earned you a lot of respect from me and from everyone else around these parts.
John Hitchcock (26ae87) — 11/3/2015 @ 4:30 pmAnd Santorum isn’t about Santorum? Or Kasich about Kaisich? Graham about Graham? Bush about Bush?
Even Texas has its Wendy and Rosemary.
That is, if fact, the central rationalization: How could the comic book be any worse than the ongoing reality? Even I have trouble with that one.
ThOR (a52560) — 11/3/2015 @ 4:53 pmguess who will call her on in the next debate, rhetorical,
http://twitchy.com/2015/11/03/oh-sweet-mercy-can-you-guess-what-hillary-blames-for-syrian-refugee-crisis/
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 5:06 pmThe analogy is that the right thinks the left is mistaken while the left believes the right is evil.
I have the general impression that it is the reverse: those on the left see those on the right as being wrong through ignorance, while those on the right see those on the left as doing wrong willfully and knowingly.
One commenter here repeatedly claims progressivism is a form of mental illness. I can’t recall any leftist making a similar claim regarding conservativism. Of course, I no longer read leftist sights with any regularity, so maybe they do and I just don’t know of it.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:05 pmwell it’s not as spelled out, but maher, colbert, et al, certainly believe that view, not to mention the skydragon worshipers, who want to try agw skeptics,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:09 pmLet’s say that Democrats are Vulcans and Republicans are Klingons.
In a Democrat debate, you have Vulcans asking questions of Vulcans, and both the questions and answers make sense to the Vulcans in the audience. Klingon viewers quickly lose interest in the pacifistic navel-gazing.
In a Republican debate, you have Vulcans asking questions of Klingons, and the questions make no sense to the Klingons — to the extent they aren’t just annoying — and the Klingons in the audience are just thinking “Kablah!”. Meanwhile the Vulcans in the audience have their prejudices confirmed about those nasty Klingons.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:12 pmthat is the adverbial form,
http://www.sparkpeople.com/mypage_public_journal_individual.asp?blog_id=3467460
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:17 pmThe point being that in a primary campaign this is NOT ABOUT asking unbiased questions. It is about asking questions that let the primary voters know which of the candidates support the voters issues. IF you keep asking GOP candidates about Democrat — or even general issues — you don’t give the party’s voters the information they are hoping to get.
When this happens, the only winning move is to whip out a bat’leth and slice up the moderators. It took Gingrich from 3% to almost winning it all in 2012, and it sure didn’t hurt Cruz or Christie.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:17 pmnarciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 5:06 pm
There is a thread of rationality there.
The argument is that a drought in the region is causing agricultural problems which in turn causes political instability. On its own that is quite possible–the French Revolution was in part caused by the problems of feeding Paris, witness the most famous phrase Marie Antoinette never actually said.
The flaw lies in thinking that the fact that I commute 25 miles round trip to work has any role in causing the drought.
Speaking of la Revolution: the real cause was the ongoing catastophe known as the French royal finances, when not quite bankruptcy on the part of the king allowed the burgesses of France to begin exerting political power.
Best book I have ever come across on the Revolution, btw, is Simon Schama’s, as much a cultural history as a political one.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:21 pmIf one cannot pass a law, file a lawsuit,
if you can’t win a law suit in a given jurisdiction,
get a fed agency to give a departmental ruling to blackmail into compliance
http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2015/11/03/us-dept-ed-rules-illinois-school-discriminated-against-trans-student
As stated before, I have zero desire to ostracize a person with a transgender identity,
but forcing a lot of teenage girls to shower with a person who identifies as a girl in spite of male genitalia is not that helpful to anyone, except those pushing the agenda.
It wasn’t all that long ago it seemed unbelievable that MA made this a law, now it’s all over.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:28 pmWinik’s the Great Upheaval summarizes it, the mini ice age of the late 18th century, which caused
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:31 pma lower than average harvest, had a fair bit to do with it
A new term:
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:33 pmGender-Confirmation Procedures
I guess that sounds better than “sex-change”
Take some comfort in this, MD: The two governors who appointed this board of education — one of them is in prison and the other got booted out (getting only 46% of the vote in Cook County).
nk (9faaca) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:46 pm‘you ask for a miracle, theo’ hans’s barb about faulty fbi procedures,
http://legalinsurrection.com/2015/11/jeb-surrenders-to-france/
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:51 pmNarciso, thanks. I liked his book on the end of the Civil War, so Patterico will see a sale for $2.47 in his Amazon meter. (The price helped.)
kishnevi (31ba4e) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:51 pm50.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:55 pmQuestion to Derek Hunter.
Do you think Congress should not be insulted?
and his takedown of FDR, 1944, is devastating, probably one of the best history of the whole war period, but it is a real life horror tale,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:56 pmPuts 1944 on the list.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:03 pmanyone here from KY and have a thought on why the polling was so far off?
seeRpea (a484b7) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:06 pmisn’t dana, the one with the adjectives from there,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:19 pmNot from KY, put local polling is often biased Dem. Selection bias?
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:22 pmI notice that the major news organizations don’t have a lot to say about tonight’s GOP sweep. Even pot lost. But little above the fold.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:24 pmI am not from Kentucky but reporting “inaccurate” (to say it kindly) polling data is a nationwide phenomenon. The media always report the polls, regardless of their methodology or validity, which favor the Democratic candidate or the left-wing side of an issue, and ignore polls which favor the Republican or the conservative side of an issue. When the discrepancy is too big to ignore, they call the race “close” which is why I knew, when I saw the NYT call the Kentucky race close, that Bevin was leading by a wide margin.
Don’t believe me? Check out this WaPo story: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/businessman-who-has-been-likened-to-trump-wins-kentucky-governors-race/2015/11/03/8693d97e-8274-11e5-9afb-0c971f713d0c_story.html If the headline is not bad enough, here’s the first sentence:
nk (9faaca) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:24 pmRepublicans stole a key governor’s seat in a hotly contested race in Kentucky on Tuesday, installing an outsider businessman who has drawn comparisons to Donald Trump as the state’s next chief executive.
and it was true in Britain and Israel, just in the last six months, the first leadership challenge to Abbott, in Australia, went the same way,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:27 pmHey
MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (4a071b) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:32 pmThat means the attorney general who refused to defend KY’s marriage amendment and was applauded for refusing to do his duty, unlike mere clerk Davis, lost.
Good for KY
That Dana I believe hales from KY but lives in PA now.
yes, I thought that is an undercurrent, that won’t likely be mentioned,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:35 pmMD, how about some medical advice? I made a pomodoro sauce with shrimp and mushrooms around noon yesterday and had some leftover. Properly stored and refrigerated. I don’t trust seafood to keep long. Do you think it will still be ok by lunch-time tomorrow?
nk (9faaca) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:38 pmWandering a bit off-topic, but following up on the comment and link from in Philly (#46):
With 2/3rd of precincts reporting, it appears certain that the controversial Houston Equal Rights Ordinance (“HERO”) will fail decisively. The current margins are fully 2-to-1 against.
The Left and the MSM are about to declare Houston homophobic. (Some might wonder: Does our lesbian mayor know?) But that’s just spin. Houston is, in fact, one of the most welcoming and open-minded places in America.
But what this decision does, as a practical matter, is strip a very important legal tool from the hands of those who’d very much like to bring aggressive civil litigation against private parties — business, tradespeople — based on claims that those private parties have engaged in “illegal discrimination” in their commercial and even personal decisions.
Houstonians aren’t anti-gay or anti-trans or whatever. But we are, apparently, still anti-statist — or at least, those of us Houstonians who turn out to vote in an off-year city election tend to be.
Beldar (fa637a) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:41 pmThe polls failed horribly at predicting both the last British and the last Canadian elections – I think there’s decent evidene that something has gone horribly wrong with polling in general.
aphrael (4eae3a) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:42 pmyes, they have been atrocious all around, if not in general orientation, by the margins,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:44 pmPollsters are not in business to fluff up or down trend results. If they were and those that are , do not stay in business long. For every election off by a significant amount (more than half a z-score) there are thousands within half the error margin. So when things go awry, it is noteworthy.
By the way, Britain not a good example due to the Parliament seats assignment which do not reflect the popular vote and the total wildcard of the Scots.
Israel and Canada are good recent country wide examples. Quite of few politicals in Israel would tell you the swing away from the Liberals was due to the Obama Intrusion.
So in KY, did something happen to set people off – like maybe the CNBC debate? Or is KY more TeaParty than thought and it seems that TeaParty types do not respond to pollsters.
seeRpea (a484b7) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:45 pmI don’t that was it, but it wasn’t any one factor, the surrender on the budget might have had an effect,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:47 pmNot counting as medical advice,
MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (4a071b) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:48 pmIf I made something with shrimp yesterday
And did not let it sit at room temperature too long
I would eat it tomorrow
I eat left over Chinese with shrimp two days later
But, ummm, what is a pomodoro sauce
Is it cooked?
I would worry more about shrimp not cooked going bad if kept in the fridge too long before cooking
But that is nothing like medical advice
Which I don’t give as my license is retired
Anyone remember the Asimov story about “THE Voter” ?
seeRpea (a484b7) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:48 pmre #68 – ooh, i so hope that enough people got disgusted by it that it did swing it. and that they stay ticked off come Prez election times.
seeRpea (a484b7) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:50 pmI’d say two things, seeRpea. Matt Bevin deported* himself well in the primary against McConnell. Bet you there’s a lot of Republicans who wish they had voted for him instead of McConnell after seeing what it got them with McConnell as Senate Majority Leader. Secondly, what MD said. The Kim Davis affair brought light on Jack Conway who had refused to defend Kentucky in the Obergefell lawsuit.
*Yes, that word means what I think it means.
nk (9faaca) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:52 pmMaybe more people in KY from the hollers voted, people with no phones to answer polls
MD in Philly (not in Philly, and out and about) (4a071b) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:52 pmSaid as a grandson of a Harlan Co coal miner.
I would say in general, but also McConnell’s part in it, in particular,
narciso (ee1f88) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:52 pmI hereby agree, assent etc., etc., etc., that I misspoke when I wrote “medical advice” and I was in fact asking for, and received, culinary advice. A pomodoro sauce is a simple but delicious pasta sauce that can be made entirely with homegrown European ingedients if you substitute hot pepper flakes or a hot pepper for black peeper. The shrimp and mushrooms were my touch.
28 oz can of whole peeled tomatoes
2-3 tablespoons of olive oil
Salt and black pepper* to taste (*Or red pepper flakes or a small chili — fish out the chili when you take off the heat)
A teaspoon of sugar
2 cloves of cut up garlic or 1/4 teaspoon of garlic powder
A sprinkle of basil leaf, fresh or dried, stirred in when taken off the heat
Nothing to brown, nothing to mix, just cook all together pulping the tomatoes with your wooden ladle in the beginning, letting it simmer covered on low-medium heat until it looks like something you’d like on your pasta.
nk (9faaca) — 11/3/2015 @ 8:12 pmFrom what I understand reading adj Dana’s previous writings broaching the subject, Kentucky is Democrat-registered by a large margin, but they’re Conservative Democrat while the party is Socialist Democrat. So, the registered voters don’t stand with the leadership.
With that in mind, national pollsters could have weighted the polling outcome to take into account the registration disparity without looking at the Conservative-Liberal leanings of the state and come up with a too-heavily Democrat-weighted poll output.
Just my thoughts.
John Hitchcock (26ae87) — 11/3/2015 @ 8:23 pmP.S. More or less pulp the tomatoes to your liking.
nk (9faaca) — 11/3/2015 @ 8:26 pmI put in a cup of canned sliced mushrooms (without their liquid) after I had pulped the tomatoes.
I put in 1 lb. of raw, shelled totally (no tail), deveined shrimp at the very end. About six minutes or so for the shrimp to turn opaque and slightly pink at the edges; then took the whole pot off the heat to keep from overcooking them; and stirred in the basil.
40. kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 11/3/2015 @ 6:05 pm
One commenter here repeatedly claims progressivism is a form of mental illness.
That’s saying that this left is mistaken.
There is also the idea that some proposals are wrong willfully and knowingly, but that applis to the originators of the proposals. Overall, the right sees the political candidates on the left as being mistaken (with the exception of Hillary Clinton, and sometimes Obama) while the left attacks positions taken by the right as evil. The candidates have a choice of being regarded as ignorant or as evil. Clark Clifford called Ronald Reagan an “amiable dunce.” The wrongness is supposed to be not helping people. The right regards the wrongness of the left as being unsound, mostly, but occasionally the wrongness is outright knowing and evil, being motivated by self-interest, as for instance, positions taken by the teacher’s unions – and other unions as well, but especially teachers’ unions.
I can’t recall any leftist making a similar claim regarding conservativism.
The claim from the left is that someone is being fooled – the claim from the right you are talking about is errors in thinking.
Sammy Finkelman (3a0a59) — 11/4/2015 @ 7:43 am67. seeRpea (a484b7) — 11/3/2015 @ 7:45 pm
Pollsters are not in business to fluff up or down trend results. If they were and those that are , do not stay in business long.
In fact Gallup has decided to get out of the political polling business. And Gallup is thecompany that started it, in 1936. George Gallup predicted elections in order to prove the validity of his surveys.
Now polling has gotten extremely difficult, because of the huge percetage of refusals, and it is more an art than a science. Someone has to figure out how to adjust for non-response, and enthusiastic (more highly probable than usual) response.
For every election off by a significant amount (more than half a z-score) there are thousands within half the error margin. So when things go awry, it is noteworthy.
By the way, Britain not a good example due to the Parliament seats assignment which do not reflect the popular vote and the total wildcard of the Scots.
Israel and Canada are good recent country wide examples. Quite of few politicals in Israel would tell you the swing away from the Liberals was due to the Obama Intrusion.
So in KY, did something happen to set people off – like maybe the CNBC debate? Or is KY more TeaParty than thought and it seems that TeaParty types do not respond to pollsters.
Sammy Finkelman (3a0a59) — 11/4/2015 @ 7:49 amFor every election off by a significant amount (more than half a z-score) there are thousands within half the error margin. So when things go awry, it is noteworthy.
There have been quite a few elections that polling has gotten wrong.The referendum in Greece is another. This is not the margin of error.
Or is KY more TeaParty than thought and it seems that TeaParty types do not respond to pollsters
They don’t, disproportinately.
Because of the large rise in telemarketing calls since the 1980s, response rates have droped to around 12%. Demographics cannot correct for that.
From 1936 till about 1960, unweighted polls used to have a pro-Republican bias, as Democrats did not trust polls, due to the 1936 Literary Dogest poll (which was probably actually stuffed) From 1960 to about 1988 the bias was even. Now it’s gone pro-Democratic. Above all, the probability of answering a poll is not unrelated to what the answers would be.
Sammy Finkelman (3a0a59) — 11/4/2015 @ 7:56 amI would be cautious taking culinary advice from me, nk…
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 11/4/2015 @ 8:07 amBut we understand each other 😉
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) #80 – as long as you do not doctor the recipés, is there any reason we should not have confidence in your culinary advice ?
Alastor (2e7f9f) — 11/4/2015 @ 12:23 pmJohn Hitchock – thank you for the kind words, AND that wasn’t my point; I was actually interested in the question DRJ’s comment hinted at and was hoping to talk about it. 🙂
That said, I would note that the majority of the liberals I consider friends would also agree with the sentiment I expressed in #33; otherwise it would, I suspect, be hard to maintain a friendship (as opposed to a distant acquaintanceship).
From which it follows that the description of “liberals” as people who don’t do that is a *caricature* – sure, there are liberals who meet the description, and there are also liberals who don’t. And people who are predisposed to believing in the caricature are likely to meet people like me and parse us as not-liberal and be surprised when we turn out to be liberal.
[This is a human failing; liberals do it with their caricatures of conservatives, too.]
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 11/4/2015 @ 4:37 pm