Planned Parenthood Abortion Survivor: “I do not care if I have to crawl to heaven; I will not surrender”
[guest post by Dana]
It was telling, but unsurprising, that Planned Parenthood and its organ harvesting scandal was not brought up during the Democrat debate the other night. To the candidates, and perhaps the moderators as well, abortion through the ninth month is fine and dandy because it is a woman’s right to choose, no matter who else might be horribly impacted by that choice. Such as Gianna Jessen:
Jessen was the victim of a failed saline abortion at seven and a half months’ gestation, during which she burned alive in her biological mother’s womb for 18 hours.
After she was rushed from the clinic to the hospital, doctors said she wouldn’t live. But she did.
Jessen was later diagnosed with cerebral palsy, which doctors told her was a result of the lack of oxygen she suffered during the abortion attempt.
The doctors said she would never walk or even hold up her own head. But she did.
“So much of it is mindset,” Jessen said. “I do not care if I have to crawl to heaven; I will not surrender.”
Here is Jessen’s riveting testimony before a House Judiciary Committee:
Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards studiously ignores the existence of people like Gianna Jessen. Hence, after Jessen’s testimony, Richards continued to deny and look the other way when questioned by Rep. Ron DeSantis at a House hearing:
“If a child survives an abortion attempt, should it be given nourishment and medical care?”
“I’ve never heard of such a circumstance happening,” Richards replied.
Pressed by DeSantis, Richards continued:
“Yes, I mean, I certainly … I can say that at Planned Parenthood, I am aware of no instance where—we don’t provide abortions after viability. So … but it certainly, in my experience at Planned Parenthood, we haven’t ever had that kind of circumstance.”
“But you would say that medical care would be in order at that point? Forget about Planned Parenthood. Just generally?” DeSantis asked.
“Well I’d say, again, I want to be responsible for Planned Parenthood and what we do there, and certainly in that situation in—which, again, has never occurred that I know of, a baby born … that baby should, as the mother, should get appropriate medical care from the physician. And would,” Richards said.
Which is, of course, so ironic given that Planned Parenthood stood firmly against the Born-Alive Abortion Survivors Protection Act which “require[s] any health care practitioner who is present when a child is born alive following an abortion or attempted abortion to: (1) exercise the same degree of care as reasonably provided to any other child born alive at the same gestational age, and (2) ensure that such child is immediately admitted to a hospital.”
Sadly, the harvesting season never ends at Planned Parenthood butcheries. And unarguably, they are most certainly not in the business of saving the lives of babies. Especially the full-term, intact ones.
Watch Jessen’s testimony. She is an inspirational woman of courage who fully understands the preciousness of life. Crawling to heaven, that’s something reserved for the mightiest among us.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (86e864) — 10/17/2015 @ 3:40 pmfor harvest season this year we’re doing a pumpkin beer tasting at the office
happyfeet (831175) — 10/17/2015 @ 3:49 pmhi there my name is Armpit Vagina Potter – I’m The Girl Who Lived!
hi Armpit my name is Ronald Weasley nice to meet you. Would you like to try some vomit candy?
“No thank you Ronald I’m going to talk to the Congress of the failmerican pickleheads!” Armpit said proudly.
“Wearing that?” asked Ronald, not unkindly.
“Good day, Ronald,” said Armpit. and off and away she crawled.
happyfeet (831175) — 10/17/2015 @ 4:15 pmoops that was supposed to be a comma i think i need to clean my screen
happyfeet (831175) — 10/17/2015 @ 4:16 pmjust like a protogen spokesman, promoting their nanovirus would say,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 4:28 pmand hence we see, how one developed the need for unskilled labor, with 55 million Americans no longer existing,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 4:35 pmWe are now entering the 3rd generation of geometric expansion. Some of those aborted babies would have been grandparents by now. It’s not just 55 million cut out. It’s bigger than that. The children and grandchildren are missing, too.
The inhumanity of it is absolutely huge and most important. But the economic loss is staggering. The demand side of the economy has been murderously chopped, as well as the production and innovation side. It is a great evil that has been visited upon us.
John Hitchcock (9c6a34) — 10/17/2015 @ 5:13 pmnota bene: notice how PP has changed. 28 years ago they did ensure the baby got care. Nowadays…..
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 10/17/2015 @ 6:24 pmPlanned Parenthood turned 99 years old this week. Hillary wished them 99 more years in the butchery business.
Dana (86e864) — 10/17/2015 @ 6:49 pmgave the place, a certain live at ‘the thuggee temple’ vibe, all the needed was the trapdoor and the volcano,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 6:51 pmPatterico, your site,
but I don’t understand why you go off on some people but not others
hf seems to try to reach new depths of disgusting revulsion.
Making fun of a person who survived an abortion with disability is quite disgusting.
In spite of your persistent disgusting comments, Jesus was tortured to death on a cross that you could be forgiven of your sin,
are you going to make fun of that too?
Whether you answer yes or no to that, you actually already did.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:02 pmwe’ve established pikachu is soul less strigoi, best chained together with maher, and russell brand, on a sinking freighter, in the Indian ocean,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:09 pmAt the risk of getting booted off myself,
I think it is disgusting that hf is allowed to post such vile garbage.
If I started holocaust jokes would I get chastised?
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:13 pmPP has killed many more millions than Hitler did…
Russell Brand is a serious gimp, but he doesn’t deserve to be punished with having hf around all the time. Not even Rosie O’Donnell deserves that kind of punishment.
John Hitchcock (9c6a34) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:17 pmYes, hf is an evil, bigoted, heartless, heretical bastard.
John Hitchcock (9c6a34) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:20 pmYes, if he were to post half of what he said on a board I ran, he’d be the recipient of my palladium ban hammer.
And no, I have no idea why Patterico would afford him special privileges to shart all over his living room floor.
Hf is a lost cause, and hoping for appropriate reaction to him is also a lost cause.
Making fun of a person who survived an abortion with disability is quite disgusting.
What’s more pathetic and telling is that happyfeet would never make fun of someone with a disability, he would find it crass and cruel, as he should.
But throw in surviving an abortion and the person with the disability becomes fair game.
Because how dare she live to tell and annoy him that way.
Dana (86e864) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:24 pmhe would find it crass and cruel, as he should.
Doesn’t matter what he finds crass or cruel, he has a damnable (literally, seriously) scorched conscience.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:27 pmI was reading Winik’s 1944, which is probably better titled ‘Road to the Holocaust’ and it is striking how this calamity was so clearly spelled out from Mein Kampf on, through the testimony of Schulte, and Karski and Vrba, (the last was a new name to me) and yet the world did next to nothing to stop it,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:27 pmUSC and Notre Dame tied 31 up with 11 minutes left in the 4th. Florida Gators trail LSU 28 to 35, Gators get ball on own 38 with less than 4 minutes left in 4th.
ropelight (36e1be) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:31 pmIt is truly an example of demonic delusions. Corrie ten Boom said her father and the rest of the family new Hitler was serious and would lead to great destruction the first time they heard him ranting on the radio.
Some people, especially of the left, somehow can’t recognize real evil and spend their time howling at the moon, like the current US POTUS.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:34 pmYes, MD, agreed.
My point was to demonstrate that the issue for him isn’t the disability, it’s that she is a living testimony to the grace and power of God. And that is an anathema to those in darkness.
Dana (86e864) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:38 pmResponding to MD at 17.
Dana (86e864) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:39 pmmuch like the downgrading of the ‘jv team’ on a smaller scale, they harvested the retreat from the region, in a blooding explosion of mayhem, which this administration still refuses to confront,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 7:56 pmPOTUS wouldn’t confront Russians, Cuban Russian proxies, Chinese, or ISIS if they were at 1601 Pennsylvania Ave, he would just find a way to escape with his own hide.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/17/2015 @ 8:00 pmThat was the most powerful and moving testimony I’ve watched or heard in a long, long time.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/17/2015 @ 8:07 pmwhich is why bringing ma richards ‘pride and joy’ was a quixotic exercise, you can’t really shame them ‘it isn’t in their nature’ testimony of the likes of gianna should have been widespread, but that is allowed for apparatchiks like sandra fluke,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 8:21 pmA friend of mine once judged a baby too small to survive after a spontaneous “abortion.” This was back in the 60s when there were no neonatologists. He sent the mother up to GYN to complete the “abortion” with a D&C. The baby he tossed into an emesis basin to go up with the mother never dreaming she would survive.
Two years later he was in GYN clinic when this woman came up to him and thanked him for saving her baby’s life. He looked at her and there, standing next to her, was a two year old looking at him, perfectly normal. He used to tell the story on himself.
True story.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 10/17/2015 @ 8:22 pmThe camera was on Gianna Jessen the entire time. How many empty Democrat committee seats was she speaking to? The Democrats won’t even listen. Most of the time, they’re not even in the room. Just like hf refused to even watch the video. They are plucking out their eyes and stopping up their ears so they don’t have to confront the evil they do and permit to be done. It is a great evil we as a nation have permitted, orders of magnitude worse than the holocaust, and the nation will be and has been punished for this great evil.
Galatians 6:7-9
John Hitchcock (9c6a34) — 10/17/2015 @ 8:29 pmhf seems to try to reach new depths of disgusting revulsion.
I originally found him amusing, perhaps a person doing an impersonation of a quasi-libertarian doofus. But I no longer consider him to be anything other than an oddball, committed to remaining a contributor to this forum even though it’s not a jokester-type webpage. That alone is why he apparently isn’t, as the saying goes, playing with a full deck.
Mark (f713e4) — 10/17/2015 @ 8:42 pmIt requires one to watch the entire video to fully comprehend just how disgusting happyfeet’s mockery is.
I will not delete it. I will leave it here, as an object lesson of how deeply pro-abortion fanaticism — like happyfeet’s — rejects the common decency most normal people possess.
Patterico (fecd9b) — 10/17/2015 @ 8:48 pmThe Democrats won’t even listen. Most of the time, they’re not even in the room.
I’m trying to think of as galling a counterpart to this on the right side of the political spectrum, where conservatives refuse to look at, listen to or deal with something that is otherwise very practical, logical and factual, or which goes in tandem with their major modus operandi (as opposed to most liberals’ MO being based on love, humaneness and generosity). But I can’t come up with anything quite as similar and outrageous involving conservatives.
Mark (f713e4) — 10/17/2015 @ 8:53 pmunion pacific, is not as one track as you, mark, it’s only incidentally about politics,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 9:10 pmWhy hasn’t hf at least been moderated yet? It is a continuous thing with him. DRJ and Doc both took a hiatus as a direct result of hf’s sharting all over the place. Every respected person here has called him out, and yet nothing to even slow him down.
John Hitchcock (9c6a34) — 10/17/2015 @ 9:15 pmthat is why I teamed him up with brand and maher, amoral misogynists, and I namechecked the corporation, from the Expanse, a soul less leviathan willing to engage in planet wide destruction for it’s own objectives,
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/17/2015 @ 9:20 pmit’s only incidentally about politics,
Narciso, yep, and while I use the labels “liberal” and “conservative” (incidentally, I generally avoid “Democrat” and “Republican” since those words aren’t specific enough—ie, there is a handful of rightwing Democrats, a small number of leftwing Republicans), it ultimately isn’t a matter of delving into politics but the emotions behind what makes people tick. I could just as easily use the descriptor of “do-gooder” or “benevolent overseer,” meaning that in this case — when humans in the womb are being treated like cheap, inert tissue — there is a particularly ruthless, diabolical quality to people who otherwise fancy themselves as such compassionate souls being the three monkeys of “see no evil, hear no evil…”
Mark (f713e4) — 10/17/2015 @ 10:12 pmexploiting this sad creature for political gain is not decent and kind Mr. Patterico
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:17 amwhen you see hyper-emotive lifeydoodle propagandas like this Dana
you have to use the logics
if you want more botched abortions
if you want more late-term abortions
the best way to achieve this is to drive planned parenthood out of business
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:43 amWould somebody please have the decency to shut hf up?
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:50 amthat said i’m still all in with cutting their federal funding
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:52 amhere is a thought-provoking article for you Mr. Hitchcock
it explores several facets of what we can expect when we make safe professional abortions harder for womens to get
please to enjoy it with a saucy pumpkin ale
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:55 amHF, you are vile, demented, heretical, and your soul is damned. I will not read your murderous propaganda. DRJ, MD in Philadelphia, Dana, JD, narciso, Patterico all said the same thing, that your statements are disgusting. DRJ and Doc took it a step further, and took a hiatus because of your vile filth. Do you not get it? Your filth is disgusting and aberrant and unwelcome.
At the very least, your comments should absolutely be put through a moderation filter, since you cannot clean up your own filth.
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:08 amc’mon just click the link you’ll love it
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:10 amOur Philadelphia physician wrote:
I’d guess that ’tis because happyfoots is a long-time commenter and pretty much of a known commodity; we all know what he’s going to say before he says it.
I’m more tolerant than our host, and the only commenter I’ve ever banned was banned not because of his particular views or how he expressed them, but the fact that he knew, personally, two other regulars and threatened the job of one and claimed that the other was a felon.
The blogger Dana (1b79fa) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:15 amhappyfoots wrote:
‘Twould seem to me that Gianna Jessen chose, herself, to make her story public, to press for just that political point. By doing so, she willingly chose to be the brunt of the vile comments of the pro-abortion forces, a brave act in itself. While she might not know, specifically, of the better-looking Dana’s and our host’s use of her testimony, I’d guess that she would approve of independent bloggers spreading the word.
And it would also seem that Miss Jessen chose to use make her story public, not just to bear the brunt of the vile comments of the pro-abortion forces, but to entice them to make those vile comments, to expose the inherent indecency of their positions, and of their personalities.
In the end, no one can hide from the light of truth.
The blogger Dana (1b79fa) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:24 amIf Miss Jessen wasn’t a living human being when her “mother” attempted to have her killed, at what point did she become a living human being?
The philosopher Dana (1b79fa) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:25 amshe just and simply a propagandist, Mr. blogger D
she wants you to use emotions instead of logic
and she’s willing to exploit her disability/tragedy to do this
she’s no different than James Brady or Cindy Sheehan or various and sundry people what MADD likes to employ
I say no thank you lady
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:29 amMr. philosopher D I have a question for you
how many saline abortions were performed in america last year?
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:35 am1 saline abortion is 1 too many.
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:37 amAnd there were a great many performed.
All of them were murder.
And you didn’t answer his question.
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:37 amthere were a great many saline abortions performed in america last year?
are you sure about that Mr. Hitchcock?
please to make the linkings
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:39 amthese lifeydoodles do not agree with your assertion they say, rather, that
If saline abortions are no longer performed, then I’m misinformed on that subject. But over 1 million abortions are performed each year, less than half of a percent can even come close to claiming life of mother reasons. Thus, over 1 million legalized murders are performed each year. Many of them abortions after birth.
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:48 amAnd again, you didn’t answer Dana’s question.
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:48 ammy feeling is that Mr. Dana’s question is tendentious Mr. Hitchcock
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:53 amIn otherwords, you’re vile and dishonest enough to not want to get pinned down in your own pit of shart.
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:01 amnevertheless
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:04 amTo clarify:
I have never taken a hiatus because of HF, I’ve just been busy and many of the recent topics have been better covered by others than my 2 cents could, I had nothing to add.
Thanks to the plug-in by Tanney nobody has to see hf if they don’t want to stomach it.
I appreciate our host’s view.
If we are leaving hf’s posts available to view to illustrate how corrupt, wicked, vile, and decadent are the views of (some) pro-abortion folks that is fine to me (for what my opinion is worth).
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:18 amI do appreciate making it clear that we are not enduring hf’s views on the topic because we think he has a reasonable opinion that must be tolerated.
Yes, our government should have little power to restrict speech,
but that does not mean the public must tolerate anything, we can cry out against evil and marginalize it,
and should,
instead of letting vocal elements of the left cry out and marginalize common sense and morality.
stinkyfeet wrote:
Thing is, you can’t answer her points, can you?
The astute blogger Dana (1b79fa) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:23 amyes yes yes
i can answer all the points
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:25 amodoriferousfeet asked:
I’m trying to figure out why the number of saline abortions, vis a vis the number ofabortions of any kind, makes a difference; they all kill living human beings.
The astute philosopher Dana (1b79fa) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:25 amsweatyfeet wrote:
In other words, you have no answer.
If we are going to allow, as the pro-abortionists wish, legal abortion right up to the ninth month, and Miss Jessen survived a botched abortion at only 7½ months gestation, does that mean she wasn’t a living human being until nine months after conception?
Indeed, can you prove that you are a living human being today?
The very astute philosopher Dana (1b79fa) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:28 amsee that’s a straw man
i’m perfectly happy with the 20-22 week compromise (with exceptions)
i just think those bans should be passed at the state level not the federal
if we want to be constitutional about it
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:31 amhf,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:40 amyou’ve already declared yourself an inhuman as* about the topic,
don’t go and pretend you are “reasonable”
(as if killing a 21 week unborn baby is bad but a 19 week is ok is “reasonable”, but I guess one cane argue it is not as quite as barbaric)
The machinery of death, must be fed constantly, would that anybody on out side declare such a profound choice.
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:46 amhappyfeet lost it
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/18/2015 @ 7:11 ammodicum of decency
now deathydoodle
Good to hear. Sunshine. Is it happyfoot when you refer to him in the singular, (don’t want to smear innocent penguins with too broad a brush)?
Attacking a woman for daring to survive attempted murder by the government’s agent. She might be the record holder as youngest surviving victim of such an attack.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 10/18/2015 @ 7:16 amIf she we’re 18 and Muslim the media would be pushing to get her a Nobel prize, for getting dosed in acid… and surviving. Those who don’t survive get nothing of course.
If she we’re 18 and Muslim the media would be pushing to get her a Nobel prize, for getting dosed in acid… and surviving. Those who don’t survive get nothing of course.
Good point.
Instead, kind of like the response the crowd gave when Pilate wanted to release Jesus.
Some things never change, until the end, and then they will change profoundly for the good, and stay that way, forever and ever, amen.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 7:29 amDay after day
Alone with his hooch
The man with the ghoulish thoughts is truly screwing the pooch
But nobody wants to hear him
They can see that he’s just a ghoul
And he never gives an answer,
But the ghoul on the blog
Sees the sun going down,
And the thoughts in his head,
Leave his soul spinning around.
Well on his way his head up his ass
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/18/2015 @ 7:40 amThe man with the tasty pancakes
Shows he slept through each class
But nobody wants to hear him,
Talk of lives he wants Them to take
And he never seems to notice,
But the ghoul on the blog
Sees the Sun going down
And he’ll tremble in fear
When The Man comes around
Hey Dude, don’t make it bad
Take a sad procedure and make it rarer
Remember to let life into your heart
Then you can start to make life better
Hey Dude, don’t be afraid
You were made for this and to make the world better
The minute you protect your kin
Then you begin to make life better
And anytime you feel the pain, hey Dude, refrain
ropelight (923c8f) — 10/18/2015 @ 8:06 amDon’t carry the world upon your shoulders
For well you know that it’s a fool who plays the ghoul
By making his world a little colder
Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah
It never ceases to amaze me how hf will attack the virtuous, and apologize for the vile.
JD (1015aa) — 10/18/2015 @ 8:48 amit’s dry in iowa and the field fires is a menace cause of how windy it is
gonna do my rain dance for them ones i check back with you laters
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 8:49 amIt’s pretty easy to just scroll past hf, which is what I do. Reading his/her comments is too much time from my remaining life.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:05 amexploiting this sad creature for political gain is not decent and kind Mr. Patterico
Oh, the irony that you who willfully play deaf, dumb and blind to avoid the truth of Jessen’s words are compelled, nonetheless, to run from her victorious testimony back to the shadows and reduce her to some sort of irrelevancy. She is anything but a “sad creature.”
That you choose to deem her as such only reveals how determined and needful you are to keep her at a position of lowliness, weakness and without relevancy. But you know what’s funny about that, she would be the first person to stand up and say, yes, I am those things. And that is because she is wiser than most, certainly wiser than you and I. Here’s why: she *knows* that it is those who have been brought low in this life who are raised up in glory, and if that means looking foolish before men like yourself for Christ’s sake, then it is with a joyful and wise heart that she does. She understands that those who are weak become strong in His name and that that strength, which is a mystery to those in darkness, penetrates the heart of a man, down deep to the soul. And depending on the pliability of that man’s heart, either the flae begins to catch fire or dies out.
And this is where you are so lost in the darkness: her life had meaning from the very second she was conceived. Her survival of the abortion, her CP, her trials and tribulations and all that she had to overcome – all of it , led up to this moment for you, happyfeet. You were meant to hear her truth. What you do with it is your business. But don’t for one second allow yourself to be so self-deceived to believe that it is Gianna Jessen who is the “sad creature” here.
You are the “sad creature”, happyfeet.
Gianna Jessen is the strong tower of yielded surrender before her Maker.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:13 amMike K (90dfdc) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:05 am
In general I agree, but at times I need to not let his garbage go.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:17 amI am sure there are battle fronts that you are active in that I am not, plenty of work to divide.
Letting too much garbage go the last 50 years is what got us here, one deluded mind by one deluded mind.
Some things do not lend themselves to an articulable response. A skunk’s spray, a snake’s hiss, Comment #3.
nk (dbc370) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:22 amTrue, nk, some of you say things much better than I with fewer words,
but I am what I am and can do what I can do.
If only tomato soup was as helpful for corrupted souls as it is for skunk spray.
But there is a remedy for corrupted souls, and it is also red, “nothing but the blood of Jesus”.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:28 amwhen you see hyper-emotive lifeydoodle propagandas like this Dana
you have to use the logics
if you want more botched abortions
if you want more late-term abortions
the best way to achieve this is to drive planned parenthood out of business
I believe you foolishly and conveniently refer to Jessen’s passionate zest for life as “hyper-emotive”, happyfeet. Perhaps you don’t understand that zest and vigor for life because, like me, you have not narrowly escaped an intended brutal death at the hands of your mother, and as a result, lived a life of untold challenges and struggle.
Tell me, when does one’s life story turn into propaganda? Because I have a life story, and I have shared parts of with people as a way to encourage, give hope to, and even to impact public policy. And you too have a life story, happyfeet. When you share it with others as a ways for them to get to know you, to encourage them, to challenge or help them, does your life then become reduced to propaganda? How does that work exactly?
Further, consider this: Jessen’s testimony may have reached any number of young women contemplating going through an abortion. As a result of her victorious life story, which is clearly one of hope, these young women may have re-thought their original choice to abort the baby they carry. Who are you to arrogantly dismiss and reduce Jessen’s testimony as “propaganda” when it may well be that her words were the saving grace for some young woman out there who needed that last push for the strength to say “yes” to life.
Here’s what I think: it’s not Jessen’s overall life story that repels you in general, it’s just the abortion part of it. Your automatic visceral and illogical reaction point to the fanaticism that our host referred to upthread.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:35 amI have long disliked name calling and insults. My preference for civility—while a guest in Patterico’s blog—has not benefitted me much.
To each their own.
I was as usual sickened by the comments to which many of your referred.
The irony of accusing others of propaganda while engaging in it made me sad and irritated. It wasn’t new, and continues in what I consider to be pretty straightforward misogynist cowardice.
But Dana’s post in particular moved me.
There was a jewel amidst the hateful garbage.
I don’t understand the impulse to repeat hateful comments. But it does remind me of this.
https://youtu.be/efHCdKb5UWc
I think of that a lot these days. I suspect the last line is more accurate than most of us would like.
Dana, thank you again for what you wrote. I suspect that there are many, many lurkers who shake their heads at many comments, but are uplifted by some, like yours. I was.
Simon Jester (71e101) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:37 amnonono i was not meant to hear her truth Dana I don’t have any patience with this sort of tug on your heartstrings propaganda
it makes me nauseous
they trot out sadness here cause they figure sadness has Absolute Moral Authority
but sadness just wants to take away our freedoms that’s her whole goal here
well I say no thank you miss gianna though I wish you the happiest of halloweens
i did some shoppings for some wee lil pickleheads this morning
amazon prime wasn’t doing the trick so I went with the garrett’s halloween tin
garrett’s is unitey for reals
gianna is dividey but you’re not supposed to criticize her cause of she was aborted
well whatever I think she’s a pooper
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:39 amAgain, Dana, even if your point is lost, it is not lost on many of us. Thank you.
Simon Jester (71e101) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:41 amI use it regularly. I have missed nothing. It does, however, highlight the disturbing effect his comments have on those who have read them. My observations of HF carnage on these threads are not unlike those of a lone sober individual at a Bacchanalia. This is my plea for putting HF in moderation.
felipe (56556d) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:42 amif you want more botched abortions
if you want more late-term abortions
the best way to achieve this is to drive planned parenthood out of business
I find this interesting, considering that in the past two weeks two “home” abortionists were arrested for their illegal activity.
So much for Planned Parenthood keeping abortion safe, legal and rare.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:45 amWho are you to arrogantly dismiss and reduce Jessen’s testimony as “propaganda” when it may well be that her words were the saving grace for some young woman out there who needed that last push for the strength to say “yes” to life.
i think her testimony is fine
go tell it on the mountain is what she should do
but her congressional testimony – that’s cheap tawdry and exploitative and I say no thank you
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:46 amOh, I don’t know, felipe. My own opinions are not generally shared.
But I keep coming back to something central: this is an electronic salon in Patterico’s house. Patterico seems to not mind bickering from some of his guests. That’s probably a good thing.
When Patterico does speak up, it should be a reminder to the guests to calm it down, and remember that they certainly can have their own salon…but while a guest, they probably shouldn’t urinate on the houseplants.
So why continue to be so unpleasant. There is something deeper at work, and I suspect Dana has identified it.
I hope things calm down. And I don’t want Dana or anyone else not to post material for fear of nasty comments in response. And I will bet that Patterico feels the same way; he has always been unfailingly polite to the people who are polite to him.
Simon Jester (71e101) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:47 amI find this interesting, considering that in the past two weeks two “home” abortionists were arrested for their illegal activity.
i don’t understand your logics
gianna wants nothing less than a wholesale ban on any and all abortions
home abortion would become the new normal in gianna’s america
see my link at #40
the law of unintended consequences has yet to be repealed
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:51 amnonono i was not meant to hear her truth Dana I don’t have any patience with this sort of tug on your heartstrings propaganda
it makes me nauseous
they trot out sadness here cause they figure sadness has Absolute Moral Authority
but sadness just wants to take away our freedoms that’s her whole goal here
Jessen was nearly burned to death in her mother’s womb, happyfeet. How is that anything but sad? Is she to deny the harrowing sadness of her truth just because you reject it? But, again, it’s not the sadness that you reject – it’s the truth she speaks.
It’s not her sadness that gives her the moral high ground here, happyfeet. That’s a direct result of her mother’s decision. But, if you watch the entire video (did you?), then you would know and see that it isn’t sadness that she’s promoting: it’s joy in life, victory through her Savior, and an unending passion and determination to stop the butchery of abortion.
My question to you would be: Why are you incapable of seeing her life as one of strength and survival and overcoming devastating odds instead of just sadness?
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:57 amSimon, I find it good that you speak well of those who are worthy of praise. I do not advocate silencing opposing views. But it has been written:
Many of the guests are straining to remember their place when one has clearly lost their compass. I sense it is time for the host to intervene. I do not order this, I only plea as a guest on behalf of the others.
felipe (56556d) — 10/18/2015 @ 9:59 amIf she we’re 18 and Muslim the media would be pushing to get her a Nobel prize, for getting dosed in acid… and surviving. Those who don’t survive get nothing of course.
But only if she were a Muslim who had survived a botched abortion performed by a Anglo-white male, pro-Christian American (say, a leftwing one who doesn’t necessarily flinch at doing such medical procedures).
As for if Jessen were a survivor of her mother’s attempted abortion but were also a rainbow-flag-carrying, pro-SSM, pro-GLBTer, fighting the good fight for gay people everywhere, *certain* people in this forum probably would give her plenty of slack, maybe even a big hug and kiss.
Mark (f713e4) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:07 amThat is very well said, felipe.
Simon Jester (71e101) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:08 amDana the way her story et cetera induces you to emote about her story et cetera is exactly why I would label her story et cetera as propaganda
and I’m not real big on that
she wants to curtail freedom and most toxically, she wants the Republican Party to be the vehicle by which women are stripped of legal avenues of abortion to where they have to resort to illegal and risky schemes
this is no bueno
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:11 amIt’s good to hear opposing viewpoints, no matter how offensive or disturbing. They prepare us to do battle when it’s needed.
So, happyfeet, explain to us why abortion should be a matter for the States but SSM was a matter for the courts and federal law.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:15 amOh, DRJ. You are right, but this will not end well. There will be foot stamping.
Simon Jester (71e101) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:17 amabortion is a matter for the states because constitution
SSM was a matter for the states and then the brilliant congresswhores passed DOMA
oops
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:18 amDana the way her story et cetera induces you to emote about her story et cetera is exactly why I would label her story et cetera as propaganda
and I’m not real big on that
happyfeet, again, what is not sad about nearly being burned to death in your mother’s womb and knowing it was her willful decision to make that happen?
Call me crazy, but what is the acceptable response when considering a late-term baby who is being burned alive in what should be the safest place on earth and at the hands of the person who should be protecting them from all harm – not visiting it upon them? Help me out, here.
Consider that the normal response to such an event is to be emotional. But also consider that although one may be emotional, that does not mean there is not logic, rational thought and sound reasoning involved. You just willfully ignore that part, happyfeet.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:18 amhow many saline abortions does Planned Parenthood do?
how many abortions of 7 and a half month old fetuses does planned parenthood do?
come again how is this lady’s testimony relevant
what’s needed is data
cause the overarching the question is how many infants are born alive at Planned Parenthood every year
you don’t know
i don’t know
gianna doesn’t know
you know what I think
gianna’s agitprop is intended to obscure our understanding of what’s happening, not elucidate it
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:26 amcause the overarching
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:28 amthequestionLots of things are intended to obscure our understanding, and promote a particular point of view.
Maybe less weird baby talk would advance your own narrative. After all, Dana and DRJ and many others treat you with respect, consideration, and maturity….even as you insult and repeat your own narrative with little change.
But then, I’m just a “weird stalker.” But at least I don’t try to make jokes about folks burned in the womb.
When you get Patterico irritable with you, you have lost the ability to promote a solid point of view.
Simon Jester (71e101) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:29 amAnd I suspect that point of view has much less to do with freedom than you state.
Simon Jester (71e101) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:30 amthat’s too meta for me right now
i’m a go get a diet red bull
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:30 amWell:
Would it not stand to reason that if there are estimates of 400-500 survivors that the true number is actually way higher?
Further, does it really matter whether it’s saline or scissors to the back of the head?
Then there is this:
And let’s not forget Kermit Gosnell, just one man’s record:
Who knows how many babies his “deputized assistants” killed.
The point being, happyfeet, it happens. Even one is too many. You can read testimony from survivors here.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:45 amI note that you specified Planned Parenthood in your comment at 94, but I’ve taken the opportunity to include various abortionists in order to show that yes, it does happen. Obviously, we know it happens at PP, but it also occurs in other mills.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:47 amBurned to death in the womb. What kind of medieval torture buff came up with that?
The org as a whole thought that was a good idea. Hose the baby down with digestive juices, like a spider. Because painless!
papertiger (c2d6da) — 10/18/2015 @ 10:56 amDoc, someone tell me. What would that do to the mother? Are they clandestinely sterilizing Mom, simultaneously while doing for the baby, as a sort of grisly twofer?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:02 amhf 92,
Using your tit-for-tat reasoning, the fact that a federal court decision legalized abortion means anti-abortion advocates should be free to use any means — State or federal — to oppose it.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:04 amhappyfeet,
There is an utter indecency at directing your disdain and ire at the victim of an attempted brutal murder, rather than saving it for those who willfully, and with great intent, worked to murder her (including her biological mother, the health professional administering the saline, and Planned Parenthood itself).
What do you think that says about you?
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:05 amOh gawd happyfeet.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:08 amAccording to this Pro Choice website, saline abortions are the second most common form of abortion. It is only used on fetuses who are at least 16 weeks old, when there is enough fluid in the amniotic sac.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:11 amThere’s a collective guilt issue that you have to overcome when fighting against abortion.
Probably by now when you count the loser boyfriends involved…you’re outnumbered.
Could explain someone needing a Red Bull, diet of course.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:11 amWhich is interesting, happyfeet, because as I recall, you at least referred to the dentist who killed Cecil the lion as “tacky” and a “murderous lion-killing dentist”, but nothing for those who attempted to kill a real-life person. Instead, you defend them.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:14 am#99 good good Dana I find this appeal to logic through the use of data to be a heartening development
the enlightenment is upon us
your first cite is of Willard Cates
where does this cite come from – meaning, where and when did Dr. Cates make this assertion? You’re right of course that this in no way specifically indicts Planned Parenthood – but not just cause he’s not specifically talking about PP – I say this cause I’d assume that instances of “abortion live births” are more likely (probably vastly so) to happen in instances of late term abortions, most of which don’t happen at Planned Parenthood cause of their policy is not to abort if the fetus has reached viability.
Maybe the rest of Dr. Cates’ testimony could shed more light on this.
Your second data point about the “1,298 cases of infant death” isn’t helpful in quantifying the number of cases.
And Kermit is of course spending his life in jail and I don’t know how we can extrapolate from his clinic in a meaningful way.
For now let’s posit the 500 number is correct.
So, I would ask you, for context, how many cases of infant death does the CDC think would happen if we banned abortion like how gianna wants?
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:20 amUsing your tit-for-tat reasoning, the fact that a federal court decision legalized abortion means anti-abortion advocates should be free to use any means — State or federal — to oppose it.
have at it but please to not hijack the republican party for this quixotic pursuit
there’s big trouble in little china and failmerica desperately needs our Rs to be focused and frosty and five by five
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:22 amCould explain someone needing a Red Bull, diet of course.
i’m about to crack drb numero dos
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:23 amI’ve seen report that Gianna’s mother’s abortion was in one of Edward Allred’s California abortion clinics, not a Planned Parenthood clinic. She may have been counseled in a PP clinic. I think several of Allred’s clinics have closedbut they seem to be based on a similar business model to PP.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:23 amWe are focused, hf, and we are able to focus on several things at once. Do you like what you are seeing here? We are today’s conservatives, not you.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:25 amWhich is interesting, happyfeet, because as I recall, you at least referred to the dentist who killed Cecil the lion as “tacky” and a “murderous lion-killing dentist”, but nothing for those who attempted to kill a real-life person. Instead, you defend them.
oh my goodness Dana this is not true it is a distortion of the truth
i said what the dentist did was tacky and i said he’s a douchebag and et cetera but i never ever said he should be legally sanctioned or that policies should change in any way cause of his lil adventure
whereas I’ve been very clear that i’m ok with changing the status quo to where abortions can’t happen after 20-22 weeks without a good reason
so this is a bad formulation, this one what you contrived
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:28 amWe are focused, hf, and we are able to focus on several things at once. Do you like what you are seeing here? We are today’s conservatives, not you.
nonono I’m the True Conservative these ones are all impostors
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:29 amLet me give you admittedly anecdotal numbers for consideration in this discussion.
I am a neonatologist in a city with a population under 180,000 people, with an average delivery rate in the city of about 4800-5200 infants per year, of which 11-15% end up in the city’s NICUs, of which I get about half. In the last 10 days I have admitted:
1. A 14 ounce infant at 24 weeks (405 grams)
2. A 1 lbs 7 oz infant at 25 weeks (670 grams)
3. A 1 lbs 13 oz infant at 25 weeks (790 grams)
4. A 2 lbs 1.6 oz infant at 28 weeks (956 grams)
5. A 2 lbs 4 oz infant at 28 weeks (1175 grams)
All are doing well growing in incubators, receiving breastmilk, and all but one is breathing sufficiently without being intubated on a mechanical ventilator. None of them have intraventricular hemorrhages – the primary scourge of premature infants – and all should continue to grow well and go home with their parents.
Vicious, nasty, lying, deceitful creatures like Richards and all the other bloodthirsty scum that work for PP (or any other abortuary) want to ignore the murder their ideology is all about. I dare anyone who continues to support the heinous act of abortion to spend a week with me – or any other neonatologist – and look on these most tiny and fragile of HUMANS as they clearly demonstrate their inherent efforts to live. There is absolutely no justification for slaughtering humans in the fetal stage of development, especially when the only reason boils down to the perceived “convenience” for those already having the good fortune to have progressed beyond the fetal stage of the human life cycle – not to mention the Lamborghini-coveting filth who work for Richards.
Pete (012f45) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:33 amAccording to this Pro Choice website
that is not a pro-choice website DRJ that’s a lifeydoodle site with a lot of misinformation on it
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:37 amDr Pete’s excellent comment shows you why you are wrong, hf. Medical advances have left you in the past. Your solutions are from the past.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:40 amOk, hf, then find a better resource if you don’t like the one I provided. Answer your own questions.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:42 amhe’s not really a doctor you realize this yes
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:42 ami did answer my own questions i gave a link to an actual lifeydoodle site at comment 50 what says nobody does saline abortions anymore
there’s also a helpful discussion here
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:45 amYou say you want answers but you refuse to believe anyone who disagrees with you or to acknowledge Congressional testimony that you don’t like. You don’t want answers, hf. You want confirmation of your beliefs.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:46 am“Letting too much garbage go the last 50 years is what got us here, one deluded mind by one deluded mind.”
I guess you are younger than I am and have more time for worthless trash like HF.
Dr Pete, nice comment. I operated on a 1 pound 10 ounce girl in 1968 for duodenal obstruction by an annular pancreas. We did not have guys like you but she survived and went home at 5 pounds. She was the youngest, smallest baby to survive surgery at the time. We were going to report her but were too busy being residents. Two guys in Florida got national publicity a year later for a 2 pound 2 ounce baby.
The story is in my book.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:50 amYou link says salt is often injected prior to a protaglandin abortion (second or third trimester) to make sure the baby dies. Saline abortions are not done in the first trimester.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:51 amyou so mean on a pikachu Dr. Mike
it hurts my feelings when you call me worthless trash
but you know what I still love you very much
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:53 amhow common are protaglandin abortions and does PP do them?
i tried asking the googles and I felt like i was getting in the weeds
maybe Dr. Pete knows
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 11:59 amoh my goodness Dana this is not true it is a distortion of the truth
i said what the dentist did was tacky and i said he’s a douchebag and et cetera but i never ever said he should be legally sanctioned or that policies should change in any way cause of his lil adventure
No, happyfeet, it is not a distortion of the truth. While you have referred to the lion-killer as a “douchebag”, etc., and Jessen as a “sad creature” and mocked her as “Armpit Vagina Potter – I’m The Girl Who Lived” as well as a “propagandist” and all of us here who support life as “lifeydoodles”, you have not used such mockery, judgement or negative terms directed at the people involved in the attempted murder of a baby. Instead, you are defending them and their “freedom” to behave in this way. That is very telling.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 12:21 pmman i just can’t win with you
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 12:24 pmSaline or scissors.
One is being burned alive while still inside their mother; the other is dismembering the baby in the womb first, or pulling the baby out feet first, stopping at the head and puncturing with scissors in order to be able to pull it all the way out.
To quibble over method is to distract from what is taking place. The murder of a baby.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 12:27 pmsaline would appear to have a better survival rate
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 12:31 pmI think some of the posters here are suffering from a form of battered-wife syndrome, except in this case it’s a matter of folks going back to a particular forumer expecting him to finally answer and debate in a serious, mature way, but end up getting burned time and time again.
Paging Dr. Phil.
Mark (f713e4) — 10/18/2015 @ 12:40 pmMark,
Your comment implies we have a different expectation of behavior from happyfeet. I don’t. What I am interested in is pushing back at every ridiculous claim he makes, and not giving up in the face of his self-deception and pro-abort talking points. If Jessen is unwilling to surrender, so am I.
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 1:23 pmHey at least someone hasn’t deployed–hoochie mama yet.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 10/18/2015 @ 2:22 pmI have a slight twist on this. I won’t make fun of that. But I will express disdain for anyone who believes it for bad reasons. Why should anyone believe or care that you believe it?
Gil (4e1585) — 10/18/2015 @ 2:45 pmHer testimony was so powerful, it’s a shame it was wasted on the weasels of Washington.
I would like to see a 30-second commercial of her story, running anywhere they can buy the time.
Patricia (5fc097) — 10/18/2015 @ 2:51 pmwho had rock duty?!?! Yer supposed to keep ‘im under the rock!
Colonel Haiku (136195) — 10/18/2015 @ 2:55 pmhappyfeet ain’t happy, he hates women, Christians, the unborn, and himself. He’s fairly intelligent but twisted and lost. If he wasn’t so arrogant he might find the humility to see himself and from there find his way to redemption. It’s up to him of course, and we can wish him well, but it’s always prudent to hedge your bet.
ropelight (e710be) — 10/18/2015 @ 2:58 pmJust to clear up for the resident troll, neonatologists are physicians, HF, and I most certainly am a neonatologist.
I have no idea how many saline abortions PP does, versus dismemberment (D & E – dilation and extraction) abortions, versus D & X (dilation and extraction, aka ‘partial birth’) abortions. Estimates from places like the Alan Guttmacher Institute are that PP is responsible for roughly 300-500 thousand abortions a year. Given that Roe v. Wade was in 1973, and there are an estimated 55 million abortions that have been committed over the last 42 years, that equates to 1.3 million abortions per year. At an average $250-500 per abortion, (notwithstanding later gestational age abortions rising to $1200 or more per abortion) abortionists are making $325-650 million per year for killing humans in the fetal stage of the human life cycle.
And to your point regarding what would be the reslutant loss of life from back alley abortions should PP close down, that is like arguing narcotics and methamphetamines should be legalized because some people die from buying drugs illegally.
Pete (6d94b7) — 10/18/2015 @ 3:05 pmThe wiser Dana wrote:
I do want more botched abortions, I do want abortion to become something that women fear is as likely to take their own lives as well as their unborn child’s.
The coldly realistic Dana (1b79fa) — 10/18/2015 @ 3:07 pmDana, the indecency is what led me to conclude, in case you haven’t noticed, I can no longer this peron’s membership in civil society.
At first I balked, despite the accumulating evidence.
But what else can you conclude? You can march one of his intended victims right up to his face, and have her tell him she wants to live, and that does happyfeet do?
Make fun of her armpits.
She’s an unperson. We fail when we think we have the moral authority; when whe have living breathing human beings to go up to the happyfeets of the world and declare they are happy the happyfeets didn’t kill them.
Netanyahu clearly intended his moment of silence during his recent UN speach to shame world leaders.
The happyfeet type world leaders were thinking, “How come this Jew isn’t dead already.”
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/18/2015 @ 3:25 pmDoes anyone think, at this point, happyfeet can be shamed?
“And I heard, as it were, the noise of thunder
One of the four beasts saying,
‘Come and see.’ and I saw, and behold a white horse”
There’s a man goin’ ’round takin’ names
And he decides who to free and who to blame
Everybody won’t be treated all the same
There’ll be a golden ladder reachin’ down
When the Man comes around
The hairs on your arm will stand up
At the terror in each sip and in each sup
Will you partake of that last offered cup
Or disappear into the potter’s ground?
When the Man comes around
Hear the trumpets hear the pipers
One hundred million angels singin’
Multitudes are marchin’ to the big kettledrum
Voices callin’, voices cryin’
Some are born and some are dyin’
It’s alpha and omega’s kingdom come
And the whirlwind is in the thorn tree
The virgins are all trimming their wicks
The whirlwind is in the thorn tree
It’s hard for thee to kick against the pricks
Till armageddon no shalam, no shalom
Then the father hen will call his chickens home
The wise man will bow down before the throne
And at his feet they’ll cast their golden crowns
When the Man comes around
Whoever is unjust let him be unjust still
Whoever is righteous let him be righteous still
Whoever is filthy let him be filthy still
Listen to the words long written down
When the Man comes around
Hear the trumpets hear the pipers
One hundred million angels singin’
Multitudes are marchin’ to the big kettledrum
Voices callin’, voices cryin’
Some are born and some are dyin’
It’s alpha and omega’s kingdom come
And the whirlwind is in the thorn tree
The virgins are all trimming their wicks
The whirlwind is in the thorn trees
It’s hard for thee to kick against the prick
In measured hundredweight and penny pound
When the Man comes around
“And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts
Colonel Haiku (136195) — 10/18/2015 @ 3:38 pmAnd I looked, and behold a pale horse
And his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him”
I agree with the bearded Dana. The more dangerous the abortion, the less likely it will take place, thus saving many lives; adult and juvenile.
I also agree with Steve57, except to add “Road to Damascus”.
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 3:39 pmDoes anyone think, at this point, happyfeet can be shamed?
Only if he looked in a mirror.
ropelight (e710be) — 10/18/2015 @ 3:40 pmThe light at the end of his rope wrote:
Does he really have a reflection?
But, let’s face facts: Mr Foots loves this attention.
The snarky Dana (1b79fa) — 10/18/2015 @ 3:49 pmThousands of people are killed in alcohol related events every year. Someone was born with fetal alcohol syndrome and they said alcohol was bad. Therefore, if you *truly* cared about life and healthy babies, you should be for an amendment that bans alcohol. In fact, you are immoral if you disagree. this logic is infallible. Nothing could go wrong.
moral (8b99c1) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:11 pmactually pikachu’s ‘fingertips should be fed to wolverines,’ yes it’s cruel but fair,
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/10/the_democrats_cross_epes_.html
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:18 pmup perryscope!
Colonel Haiku (136195) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:26 pmThousands of pregnant women are killed on their way to doctor appointments. Therefore if Perry truly cared about life and healthy babies, he would call for the abolition of medical schools. In fact, he’s immoral if he disagrees. The logic is infallible. Capisce?
ropelight (e710be) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:30 pmIt’s a ggod thing your mama died givin’ birth, happyfeet… If she’d have read what you wrote, she’d have died of shame.
Colonel Haiku (136195) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:31 pmnonono she’d be super proud of her lil pikachu for standing up for women
mom and dad always taught me that we believe in a woman’s right to choose
they knew stories about the dark days before abortion was legal
they wouldn’t speak of these horrors
but you could see it in their eyes
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:34 pmhappy fascist, champion of (selected) women. Also, the reason we can’t have nice things.
Gazzer (7baf28) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:39 pmHappyfeet,
As Jessen asks in the video, what about her rights? Do you think she chose, or would have chosen to be burned in her mother’s womb and subsequently be born with CP as a direct result?
Dana (86e864) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:48 pmPlease permit me to remind you what you are responding to. More accurately what you are stirring:
hi there my name is Armpit Vagina Potter – I’m The Girl Who Lived!
hi Armpit my name is Ronald Weasley nice to meet you. Would you like to try some vomit candy?
“No thank you Ronald I’m going to talk to the Congress of the failmerican pickleheads!” Armpit said proudly.
“Wearing that?” asked Ronald, not unkindly.
“Good day, Ronald,” said Armpit. and off and away she crawled.
happyfeet (831175) — 10/17/2015 @ 4:15 pm
Don’s spread it. Just wash your browsers with a powerful antiseptic and walk away.
nk (dbc370) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:51 pm*Don’t*
nk (dbc370) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:51 pmman the one time you make a punctuation error everyone copies your stuff
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:53 pm“Good day, Ronald,” said Armpit, and off and away she crawled.
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:54 pmnk, I love you like a brother, but please do not fully quote HF again, it defeats the purpose of my filter! You just tracked HF all over my carpet!
felipe (56556d) — 10/18/2015 @ 4:59 pmAs Jessen asks in the video, what about her rights? Do you think she chose, or would have chosen to be burned in her mother’s womb and subsequently be born with CP as a direct result?
i already said as far as I’m concerned nobody should be having abortions at 7 and a half months
but her experience doesn’t mean women should have to give up their rights
but jeeze it’s just one smarmy propaganda stunt after another with these lifeydoodles
and personally I don’t think they’re moving the dial
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:02 pmSigh. I really admire the folks who try to engage calmly.
After Patterico’s comment, some self-reflection is warranted.
Some guest, huh?
Simon Jester (6258ec) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:05 pmthank you Mr. Jester i try to engage calmly and in good humor whereas a lot of people get really mean and personal
but still I think i get my point across more or less
but that’s not even the key thing
what’s important is not submitting to these propaganda bludgeons where issues are framed in a way where if you disagree you’re a scummy baby killing pooper unfit for civil society
my goodness some of you get a wee little bit overwrought I think
but I understand you have passionate lifeydoodle believes
but I also understand that these believes do not square very neatly with a belief in principles of limited government and individual freedom
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:09 pmMy apologies, felipe.
nk (dbc370) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:20 pmJust a reminder, the post was left by our host for the following reason:
I will leave it here, as an object lesson of how deeply pro-abortion fanaticism — like happyfeet’s — rejects the common decency most normal people possess.
For myself, I generally don’t try to engage hf in conversation, as even if he has the cognitive ability to hold a coherent conversation, which I think he does, his moral compass has been demonstrated to be too far off to assume reasonable conversation.
IMO, engaging hf is useful if one wants to use him as a foil in respect to things he says, as I believe Dana explained her own approach.
My most applicable experience came in medical school one morning, listening to the harried and disturbed 3rd year peds resident tell his tale of the previous night. This was back in the day when hospitals still used overhead paging for emergencies. He heard “Peds resident to such-and-such a place stat”, which prompted the response, “Where the heck is that?”.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:52 pmTurned out it was the gyn ward, when an abortion victim was born alive, terribly premature for the time, below what was considered viable (by 1983-4 standards). I don’t know exactly what he said, but I knew what his response was, “What the f*** do you want me to do”, accompanied by a desire to hit somebody.
a lot of people get really mean and personal
Seems to me trying to kill an unborn child, then mocking her when she survives, is about as mean and personal as one can get.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:54 pmThe “womens’ rights” argument is the rankest hypocrisy for 2 reasons.
One, statistically, half of the fetuses aborted are female. Two, the proabortion crowd isn’t insisting just to have the legal option of killing human fetuses, but in fact are demanding that taxpayers who believe that abortion is murder be required to pay for abortions through taxpayer subsidies to abortion mills like Planned Parenthood via creative accounting scams so they can (falsely) claim taxpayers are not funding the murder of the unborn.
Wait until obamacare finishes collapsing, and the left demands a single payer national socialist government medical system. Think the left won’t insist that the “medical procedure” of killing a human fetus be fully covered by taxpayer funds? Imagine how many hundreds of millions of dollars, given the figures I posted up post,
Pete (6d94b7) — 10/18/2015 @ 5:58 pmOT on the other end of life’s spectrum-
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:01 pmanyone with experience/knowledge selling paid-up insurance policy policies to get a percentage of the cash now? Good references to look up? Any companies to stay away from?
MD in Philly – that scenario still happens all the time. It is particularly common when a couple has done IVF, but the woman goes into labor at 19-22 weeks and wants everything done to try to save a nonviable infant. All we can do is swaddle the child and hand him or her to the parents and tell them how sorry we are that we can’t save their baby. After you experience that just once, knowing that there are people who purposefully kill their child for convenience sake is terribly hard to stomach.
Pete (6d94b7) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:05 pmsomeone linked this recently Mr. Dr. I can’t remember who
it provides some interesting context though it won’t really answer your question
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:07 pmMr. Dr. Pete I don’t think PP should get government monies, in part cause of I think lifeydoodles shouldn’t have to pay taxes for that stuff
but mostly cause of it’s not really a proper government function
i wonder though how many of your later term abortions happen cause of it took a few weeks (or more) after making the decision for someone to get the monies together
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:10 pmThat is different, hf.
There is a process/industry that I think started in the 90’s with AIDS patients, dying, a life insurance policy with no survivors to plan for, and financial need. People/firms buy an insurance policy for a percentage of the death benefit, then recoup their expense and a profit when the person dies.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:17 pmSort of like people who pay a cash lump sum to be the receiver of an extended structured settlement.
yes is different but what’s interesting is it gives you some appreciation of the administrative costs associated with policies
we inherited one of those ones you’re talking about from my dad who got talked into it by a pharmacist friend of his
we let it go when the annual buy-in came around
the whole thing was in some kind of receivership at that point
but also it was sorta … not something we were super comfortable with
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:24 pmit was a “viatical” something or other
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:25 pmhere
happyfeet (831175) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:26 pm‘and now for something different, the larch’
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/10/has-hillarys-last-defense-been-destroyed-by-a-smoking-gun.php?
narciso (ee1f88) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:33 pmThe AARP has a posting on it, too. http://www.aarp.org/relationships/caregiving/info-01-2010/women_life_settlement.html
One caution I would add, look out for double indemnity clauses which pay double in case of violent death. 😉 Lawrence Block wrote a very bad Matt Scudder story (not that he has written anything good in thirty years) based on that.
nk (dbc370) — 10/18/2015 @ 6:38 pmBe vigilant about anything from AARP, they’re just another Democrat front group pretending to advocate for retired people when self-interest and support for leftist politicians comes first. AARP is really no different than the National Organization for Women (NOW) or any of the other do-gooder organizations with 501-C tax exempt status who abuse the public trust to funnel campaign contributions and ‘volunteer field workers’ for Democrat candidates during elections.
ropelight (e710be) — 10/18/2015 @ 7:32 pmYes, it’s really a business venture, making its money from insurance sales, and not accountable to its “membership” since it’s fictional — there are no dues and everybody who turns 50 and gets a letter from them is considered a member unless he publishes a notice in the paper saying he’s not. But it’s an ill wind … Anyhow, your insurance agent will be the best person to talk to about selling your policy. Personally, I would not insure my life for the benefit of someone that I am not 100% sure would rather have me alive. These viaticals only make sense for people with terminal illnesses who want the cash for themselves while they’re still alive to sweeten their last days.
nk (dbc370) — 10/18/2015 @ 7:49 pmAn old (1966) but good book on the insurance industry: Pay Now, Die Later… by James Gollin.
ropelight (e710be) — 10/18/2015 @ 8:08 pmI’ll soon be eligible for AMAC. I’m not going AARP because they’re Leftist and unresponsive to most of the people in it.
John Hitchcock (b8b01a) — 10/18/2015 @ 8:14 pmThe Planned Parenthood corporation is more than just another business in the elective abortion industry. It also offers services for clinical cannibalism to the market.
n.n (4491ff) — 10/18/2015 @ 8:26 pmUnited Healthcare pays AARP to use their name and membership list to enroll newly eligible Medicare patients. You don’t have to be an AARP member for some of United’s Medicare Advantage Plans, and some of them are quite good. Take your time and do your homework. It’s well worth the effort.
Traditional Medicare plus a supplemental policy is the way to go if you can afford it, otherwise go with a Preferred Provider Organization (PPO) if their list of network doctors and specialists meets your needs, lastly it’s a Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) where you need permission from your designated primary care doctor to see a specialist or get lab work or most any other health related service. Both PPOs and HMO’s usually provide Prescription Meds at reasonable co-pays. Check the individual insurer’s Formulary to make sure they cover the Meds you need, especially the expensive ones.
Send for a copy of Medicare and You, (year) from:
Centers for Medicare and Medicade Services (CMS)
7500 Security Blvd.
Baltimore, MD 21244-1850
Ask for CMS Product #10050-28
Or go on-line: Medicare.gov
ropelight (e710be) — 10/18/2015 @ 8:46 pmOr call: 1-800-633-4227
There is no hope for conciliation. The survivors of America will dispatch the fallen where they lie and pursue, run down and destroy those defeated yet mobile.
Be careful not to run only face your assailant and wish him ‘Godspeed’.
DNF (2e827d) — 10/19/2015 @ 4:55 amMr Feet wrote:
And thus we see Mr Feet make the case for government funding of abortions for poorer women.
The Dana who'd rather be a lifeydoodle than a deathydoodle (f6a568) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:10 amWorking backward, I doubt a government agency would place a child in my custody. The judge did give me the choice; navy or prison.
Kidding.
Now, not kidding. Twenty years ago I lost the only child I’m ever going to have. And yet I kept getting your 18 and 19 year olds, America. I thought it my duty to return then unharmed. As long at it was within my power to do do so.
I’ll take the kid!
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:54 amSorry, Steve57
Thanks for the other advice. That AARP link was very helpful, nk.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/19/2015 @ 7:25 amI hope I haven’t embarrassed myself.
The Navy later informed me that since the hospital at Yokosuka isn’t equipped to deal with prenatal complications, they don’t look for them.
This became sort of crucial later on. I checked my wife into a Yokohama hospital.
http://healthyim.com/en/hospital/jp0453661111/review/
And I got treated to a bunch of docs giving me attitude. Until I had the death certificate and the funeral urn and then they were capable of admitting that, despite my lack of medical degree, maybe my wife and I hadn’t experienced first class medical care.
The b@stards.
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 7:29 amMD in Philly, just so you know I don’t include you in that bunch.
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 7:34 amAlso, I didn’t blame the docs for death visiting me.
It was the dishonesty that bothered me. For six months everything was fine. THEN all of a sudden I’m the d!ck wanting to check for problems.
After I was recalled post 9/11 I got really, really drunk one night with my neighbor in the Bachelor Officer’s Quarters (BOQ). Despite the name it’s mixed gender.
So She is a nurse at the Yokosuka naval hospital. She knocks on my door, tears in her eyes. Ten years previous somebody had been tested for cancer. The result came back positive for cancer. And nobody did anything.
This I think puts the VA situation in perspective.
She had to make the phone call, ten years later. See, she was junior.
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 8:02 amShe was a nurse.
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 8:03 amstatistically, half of the fetuses aborted are female.
Actually, I think that more are female if you include China. Of course, the US mostly does not use abortion for sex selection except feminists who want to abort males.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 10/19/2015 @ 10:04 amI don’t think you embarrassed yourself, Steve57 and sorry you had to deal with such an event, and no, I don’t feel like you included me in it.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/19/2015 @ 10:59 amThe truth is, as we know, that some people are really evil and dishonest, some aren’t so bad but can’t stand up for the truth when it hurts them, some don’t care enough to stick their neck out. Some of those people are doctors, lawyers, politicians, and such.
My friend the good doctor from Philly, every profession has a code of ethics that is necessary to publish because lots of people can’t or won’t live up to them.
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 12:13 pm“First do no harm.”
Well, okey dokey. I, cave man that I am, need someone to tell me this before I carve the arrow out of my buddy’s arm.
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 12:18 pmI’m not going AARP because they’re Leftist and unresponsive to most of the people in it.
Me too. Their mailings go in the trash.
Steve, if you want an account of most of the mistakes I made in a 50 year medical life, my book is on Amazon.
Send me an e-mail address and I’ll send you a copy.
I remember most of their names 40 years later.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 10/19/2015 @ 4:18 pmIt’s a great book. Well worth your time, Steve.
Simon Jester (d7211c) — 10/19/2015 @ 4:53 pmIm going to go out on a limb and say I dont think HF tried to kill the unborn child in question. But as far as mocking her, yes I do believe she should be mocked if she believes her imaginary friend will help her crawl into heaven.
Gil (febf10) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:10 pmSo gratuitous
nk (dbc370) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:29 pmMuch nasty
Very Gil
the guy what used to play Buck Rogers was named Gil he married Connie Sellecca who divorced him and hooked up with John Tesh and they both got Jesus in a big way the end
happyfeet (831175) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:35 pmGil and happyfeet sitting in a tree…
It’s just so damn easy to mock those with disabilities and faith. But apparently it’s so much harder to condemn those who kill babies.
You’re but small children.
Dana (86e864) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:37 pmwe are NOT in a tree are we Mr. Gil?
happyfeet (831175) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:39 pmMr. Gil?
happyfeet (831175) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:45 pmDana, I just sent Patterico a message that may make you feel better.
Lots of people appreciate the time, effort, and seriousness that you bring to your posts.
Of course, it is easier, and takes a loss less thought, simply to be a jerk.
Never doubt that many, many people appreciate what you do.
Simon Jester (52b5e8) — 10/19/2015 @ 7:20 pmAnd I guess I am still struck by what Patterico wrote.
Surprising that didn’t moderate Teh Hate and Teh Weird.
But perhaps I should be surprised.
Simon Jester (52b5e8) — 10/19/2015 @ 7:26 pmGil and happyfeet sitting in a tree…
They don’t belong together.
Mr. Feets mocks her because he thinks she is allowing herself to be used as a prop in political theater. He is sneering at her, not you.
Gil mocks her because she believes in God. He is sneering at you (and most all of us here, including Mr. Feets, who believe in God).
kishnevi (59636a) — 10/19/2015 @ 7:29 pmCan you please tell me why you libs have a problem with me killing a few ducks and maybe once in a lifetime a Cecil look alike? Or alternatively can you tell your fellow libs to shut up?
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 10:13 pmThe goal, my medical friend in the city of brotherly love, is the preservation of innocent human life.
Killing is sometimes a consequence in pursuit of that goal. It is never the goal.
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 10:19 pmI believe in a God who is majestic enough to laugh it off.
Steve57 (ab98ff) — 10/20/2015 @ 1:10 amSteve57 (ab98ff) — 10/19/2015 @ 10:19 pm
Agreed, which is why it is logically consistent to be both for capitol punishment and against abortion.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/20/2015 @ 5:06 amOur Philadelphia physician wrote:
Alas! We are truly being punished by the capitol. 🙂
The wryly amused Dana (f6a568) — 10/20/2015 @ 5:55 am206. “I will love whom I will love and hate him who I will.”
“Seek God while He may be found.”
“And God hardened pharoah’s heart.”
DNF (5e0706) — 10/20/2015 @ 6:23 amGod had nothing to do with the mockery of Gianna Jessen. Not the Devil either. It was a deficiency of humanity.
nk (dbc370) — 10/20/2015 @ 6:30 amIt was a deficiency of humanity
People like to invoke “Satan”, and say “Satan is doing this or trying to do that”.
I have never yet found anything that can not be explained by the evil that humans are capable of all on their own.
But I think Steve was thinking of Gil’s mockery of God, not HF’s mockery of Ms. Jessen. Scripture assures us that God does not like that sort of mockery.
kishnevi (870883) — 10/20/2015 @ 9:25 amGil can’t help it he sees everything through the eyes of science like a leftist sees everything through the eyes of politics. He is ignorant of theology and tries to answer theological questions with science. That’s like trying to fix a car by reading Shakespeare.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 10/20/2015 @ 9:35 amI was referring to both happyfeet and Gil, and I meant deficiency of humanity as in lack, or not enough, of.
nk (dbc370) — 10/20/2015 @ 9:57 amI have never yet found anything that can not be explained by the evil that humans are capable of all on their own.
Yes. The Calvinist view of the Devil is foreign to me, too. We’re capable of finding our way to Hell just fine all on our own.
nk (dbc370) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:01 amhmmm
I will ask my friend D to review our conversation here
if I need more humanities he will be for sure to say
we’ll do this after lunch
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:03 amDo show your friends your tasteful description of the handicapped young lady. Don’t just describe it. Show it.
And say words don’t matter, and say something offensive about your friend. It’s a skill set of yours.
Since truth is so important.
But I have a feeling your friend “D” is your left hand in a sock.
You even got Patterico annoyed with you, on his site. And yet you want to ask a “friend.”
Unclear on the concept.
Simon Jester (f42edd) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:28 amI depend on you to be the expert on the Old Testament.
God will not be mocked. But I gather He can put up with a lot.
Didn’t He tell Moses that he would have the promised land, but only after the Malochites or Canaanites or whatever had lived up to the full measure of their blasphemy?
I’m working from memory here.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:40 amOh, wait. That was Abraham.
I’m such a dumb @$$.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:42 amDo show your friends your tasteful description of the handicapped young lady. Don’t just describe it. Show it.
yes yes he’s reading the whole thread
we’ll have to wait and see what he thinks
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:56 amD 12:58 PM
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:58 aml oh effing L
I AM HAND IN SOCK
happyfeet, is it at all possible for you not to be a d*ck?
This is a yes/no question.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:00 amRE: #221
No.
Steve Malynn (b5f891) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:03 amoh my goodness yes yes yes
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:03 amI, for one, am relieved that happyfascist’s behavior is going to be reviewed by the completely impartial, and totally fictional, D.
Gazzer (7baf28) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:05 amwhaaa? I been talking about D forever he gives us lots of good links I probably should credit him more than i do actually
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:07 am“Us”?
Hmmm.
Simon Jester (f42edd) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:10 amyes yes us here at the pontifications
he gives us many links to enjoy
for example here is one he found for the doodles
heartening news!
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:37 amOh, I don’t think you can reasonably speak for everyone.
As for “doodles,” why, this is why people have begun calling you names.
Why don’t you stop it, use a normal writing style, and contribute politely? Even Patterico called you out.
Oh, that’s right: you aren’t here to contribute or discuss. Just troll.
Simon Jester (f42edd) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:44 amAfter all, many people who used to support you no longer do. It should give you pause.
If you actually wanted to contribute instead of being odd and trolling, that is.
Oh.
Simon Jester (f42edd) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:48 amyou’re grumpy
and I’m way way way more polite than a lot of you people
feeding my fingertips to wolverines oh my goodness that’s barbaric
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 12:10 pmHis comments about this particular woman–and his immediate need to degrade her in a particular way may reflect an addiction to something particularly hard core.
Danube River Guide (76b104) — 10/20/2015 @ 12:22 pm“But, let’s face facts: Mr Foots loves this attention.”
– The snarky Dana
And you all continue to provide it. I suspect because you all secretly love it too.
Leviticus (f9a067) — 10/20/2015 @ 12:42 pm“Im going to
go out oncut off a limb and say I dont think HF tried to kill the unborn child in question. But as far as mocking her, yes I do believe she should be mocked if she believes her imaginary friend will help her crawl into heaven.”Gil (febf10) — 10/19/2015 @ 6:10 pm
FIFY
Colonel Haiku (8fd90b) — 10/20/2015 @ 1:23 pmCoronello, Gil would be doing the human race a favor if the limb he amputated wasn’t actually, technically, a limb.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/20/2015 @ 2:38 pmbad news D had to leave early
shoot I was curious what he thought
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 2:39 pmSorry. That was not Christian of me.
I was raised Catholic, but then I went pagan most of the decades of my life, and now I’m working on it.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/20/2015 @ 2:43 pmhappyfascist, perhaps your other friend, Harvey the rabbit, could take a gander.
Gazzer (7baf28) — 10/20/2015 @ 2:48 pmnow you’re just being facetious
happyfeet (a037ad) — 10/20/2015 @ 2:51 pmYou have a limited imagination, Leviticus.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/20/2015 @ 3:27 pmhappy, you continue to prove me correct. thank you.
Steve Malynn (b5f891) — 10/20/2015 @ 4:36 pmrun you clever boy
happyfeet (bcf7da) — 10/20/2015 @ 4:43 pmSteve@217
Your memory is working fine.
But I ran across a verse from Proverbs that fits HF’s comment quite well.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 10/20/2015 @ 7:35 pmPriverbs 17:5
One who mocks a poor man insults his Maker, one who rejoices in misfortune will not be exonerated.
Proverbs. Slaps himself for stupidity of that typo.
kishnevi (31ba4e) — 10/20/2015 @ 7:36 pm“You have a limited imagination, Leviticus.”
– DRJ
I blame television.
Leviticus (028e08) — 10/20/2015 @ 8:15 pmMike K, Simon Jester, the book is on my reading list.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:20 pmLeviticus, I apologize for not being more right about more s**t. Now, take your turn.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/20/2015 @ 10:51 pm@Steve 206
Believe all you want, but you have no rational reason to do so.
@Barack 212
Gil (4e1585) — 10/20/2015 @ 11:31 pmGil can’t help it he sees everything through the eyes of science like a leftist sees everything through the eyes of politics. He is ignorant of theology and tries to answer theological questions with science.
Georges LeMaitre was the Belgian priest who now known as the father of the Big Bang theory.
He didn’t name it the Big Bang theory. An atheist astronomer came up with that name as an insult. Because the atheist realized the potential. If there was a moment of creation, that meant there could be a creator. The atheist then went on to waste his life trying to disprove that. He failed. We remember the priest, not the atheist.
The atheist succeeded in proving one thing. If you can’t believe in God, you have to be prepared to believe in a lot of stupider s*** than I can believe in.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/21/2015 @ 5:41 amThere is no way to reliably understand reality without science / scientific method. – Gil
Thank you for such a clear statement of belief.
Is there no such thing as beauty?
No such thing as love or hate?
No principles of logic?
No mathematical concepts or relationships?
No right and wrong?
Or do you claim there is no math until a human puts one block with another block and says “Two blocks”?
What about cause and effect? Does observation prove the concept of cause and effect, or is cause and effect a philosophical concept that observation is used to determine the relationship case by case?
Is “reality” merely another term for what appears to you to happen when lots of synapses do their thing?
In the past, afaik, the term “scientist” referred to a person who used the scientific method in search of an understanding of the physical world around us,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 5:50 amperhaps now it is an appropriate term for one who believes in scientism,
like “Christian Scientist” refers to one who believes in “Christian Science”.
249. My forthcoming book, “Gleaning Among Tares”, will open with an elucidation of the ‘Book of Ruth’ as empiricism in the walk with God that is the life we’ve been granted.
The motivation will be that God rewards a secular journey in the wilderness running from Hume through Wittgenstein, Nietzsche, Monod, Tillich, et alia, to reveal Himself, Lord of Universes; an epistemology for Bible believing Xians.
After all is said, the Gils and Feets whose hope is circumscribed by their phenome will be manifest as illiterate, cowering Calibans and Nabals, in short fools.
DNF (45ef00) — 10/21/2015 @ 6:12 amSnort. I have a different view of atheism. It’s not because they love science. It’s because they love things that most religions forbid. From the Rhyme Of The Pushy Atheist:
nk (dbc370) — 10/21/2015 @ 6:18 am“Why dost thou, Pushy Atheist, spew bile on every thread?”
Gil held up a hairy palm, “There was a sheep”, he said.
Gil has a deeply religious belief in the godliness of his own mind.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/21/2015 @ 6:32 amI am a scientist, and am also a person of faith. So is the Director of the National Institutes of Health.
I’m quite fond of his book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Language_of_God
Anyway, I well remember my late mother telling me as a young man that I was going to Hell. I asked her why she thought that. She told me that I “believed” in evolution.
Now, I love my mother very much. But I had read the Bible many times, and attended church regularly. I had read widely in theology. She did not, and had not. I had a PhD in genetics, and she had not taken a course in biology since the 1940s. I reassured my mother that I tried to live my life by Christian principles, and had asked for forgiveness, and tried to help others. I also tried to get her to read some C.S. Lewis, with no success.
I love my mother and miss her very much.
From everything I had read and learned, about biology and about my own faith, suggested that “I don’t know” are very important words, and that hubris remains a sin. I cannot understand atheists or fundamentalists who claim to know the mind of God, seemingly unable to conceive of a God greater than themselves. I wish them well and do not fight with them (borrowing from Augustine).
I look through a microscope often, as well as a telescope. I study DNA sequences at work and study how genes are regulated. How can one not feel awe?
And how terrible to stand in judgement of others. No one is perfect, me most of all.
But here is the difference. I have never had an atheist wish me well with kind words when we disagreed over religion. The majority of fundamentalists I have spoken with wish me well and offer to pray for me.
Which is the better person? I know my answer. Yours may differ.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/21/2015 @ 7:05 amnk, I agree that atheism is more an issue of the heart and will than of intellect, and I do not respond to Gil’s comments, if I do, for Gil’s sake,
but for the sake of any onlookers who may have a sincere desire to see the “rationality of belief in God”, as Lewis argued, as Simon Jester mentioned.
No, one cannot prove or disprove the existence of God, but there is enough evidence for a sincere desire for truth to see.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 8:07 amBut then again, apart from the grace of God, we all would rather ignore Him and do our own thing, be it “sinful” or “respectable”.
DNF, are you seriously writing that book?
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 8:10 am255. Seriously. Currently laying out the outline in preparation for the return of my library in Feb.
But, in part thanks to Rico for the practice, i expect to roll, and just pay for the formating thru Clearspace who will print on demand via Amazon.
In the fullness of time, “He makes our way perfect.”
DNF (45ef00) — 10/21/2015 @ 9:05 amLooking forward to it.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 10:45 amSimon, I remember a priest’s response to a charge that the Church’s practice of Excommunication was driving so many believers away. He said:
“Do you know who has Excommunicated more people every year than the Church has in its entire history? Mothers.”
I knew he was right because my own mother had told me I was going to hell for one reason or another. Our mothers love us beyond our comprehension, and sometimes their flawed human nature (or ours)can get the better of them – and us.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 10/21/2015 @ 11:06 amThere is the [very] limited frame-based philosophy of science wherein resides the scientific domain, and everything else is in one of the three remaining logical domains: philosophy, faith, and fantasy. The scientific domain is defined on the premise that accuracy is inversely related to the product of time and space offsets from an established frame of reference. Much of popular science today is actually considered and realized in the philosophy, faith, or even fantasy logical domains. The limiting factor for the scientific domain is the recognition of chaotic processes (and unknown underlying order) that prevent or severely limit accurate forecasts and predictions outside of closely bound frame of reference. Ironically, science server more to constrain secular (e.g. atheism), rather than theistic (i.e. acknowledged) faith.
That said, it is both established by scientific evidence and self-evident reasoning, that the process of human evolution (i.e. chaotic process) begins from conception (i.e. source). The question is not when human life begins and is viable, but if competing humans and interests will recognize the intrinsic or exceptional value of human life, and will they avoid constructing congruences (e.g. pro-choice doctrine) as a moral justification and psychological defense for their personal choices.
n.n (d200a0) — 10/21/2015 @ 11:20 amYou are right, felipe. I miss my mother. At least she isn’t hurting any more.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/21/2015 @ 11:22 amn.n-
Thanks for the comments, but fwiw, full appreciation of your comments requires more caffeine in my system than I have.
That is not meant to be a negative reflection on you, it is the same reaction I had when reading Plantinga’s Where the Conflict Really Lies: Science, Religion, and Naturalism
The basic premise I sought to establish, able to be grasped by most thoughtful people of reasonable intelligence, is that the legitimate realm of human knowledge and study exceeds that of “science” as Gil would define it,
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 11:49 amin other words, “Reality” is a big thing, and “science” as Gil defines it does not “fill up” reality, but is a subset of it. (If I could make Venn diagrams it would be easier).
IIRC, Gil thought it would be a waste of time to read Plantinga, as being a “philosopher” he would not know anything worthwhile about “science”.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 11:50 amBad theology is probably worse than atheism much of the time.
I agree that the mind of man should recognize there is much that is true about God that we cannot fully understand,
probably even so in heaven seeing Him face to face,
but that does not mean the converse, that nothing can be adequately known about God.
(Not that I saying that is what anyone suggested).
I would not want to claim I knew anything about God completely, thoroughly, and that “I don’t know” is a very reasonable phrase.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 11:58 amBut on the other hand, there is quite a bit in the Bible that seems clear in meaning, and if I claim it to be true, I do not think of it as claiming I know about God, but rather than I am agreeing that what God said about Himself is true.
From everything I had read and learned, about biology and about my own faith, suggested that “I don’t know” are very important words
Absolutely ! I consider Atheism to be another, rather mean spirited, religion.
Personally, I am agnostic. I don’t know.
I ran into the fundamentalist nasties over at Ricochet and did not renew my subscription. I read lead articles once in a while but the comments were very mean spirited. Almost as mean spirited as Atheists’
Mike K (90dfdc) — 10/21/2015 @ 12:03 pmYes, orthopraxy in loving one’s neighbor is as important as orthodoxy.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 12:09 pmMD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment):
I agree. That is why I emphasize recognition of logical domains. Science does not compete but rather complements faith. As for religion or moral philosophy established through faith/trust, it should be judged by the principles it engenders. A good philosophy is compromised of principles that are internally, externally, and mutually consistent. Humans, people, myself, are inherently limited in both perception and causation, and so are necessarily confined to operate within the [limited] scientific domain. In this domain, the religious/moral requirement is to reconcile individual dignity, intrinsic value, and natural imperatives.
Mike K:
Atheism creates or reflects a predisposition to narcissism. However, any faith/trust (e.g. egoism) that focuses internally will eventually realize the same effect. It’s probably not a coincidence that humans, beginning with family, are social creatures, and universally acknowledge an omnipotent and omniscient entity, or an unknown, and unknowable, underlying order. It’s also not a coincidence that people will choose a mortal god to represent and provide for them.
I am agnostic as far it’s possible to limit scrutiny to the scientific domain. The moral axioms: individual dignity and intrinsic value, cannot be established in the scientific domain. And while they may be realized through an evolutionary or emergent reconciliation, it’s more appealing to recognize these qualities of fellow human begins and in myself with faith/trust.
n.n (d200a0) — 10/21/2015 @ 2:59 pmI should revise my comment. Each logical domain complements and intersects with each other.
I watched a really excellent episode of The Andy Griffith Show recently. The story was about Andy’s son meeting a man in the woods who was only present intermittently. The boy spoke of his encounter and described the man to the best of his ability. The fantastic description of the man and the inability to confirm his observation, lead the the adults to presume that the man was a figment of the boy’s imagination. However, the lack of “scientific evidence” was eventually, if only fortuitously remedied, when Andy finally met the man, and confirmed the facial description did indeed describe a telephone repairman whose duties required occasional visits to the woods.
The moral of the story is that the other domains do indeed intersect with the scientific domain, even when events cannot be independently observed and reproduced. Whether it is philosophy, faith, or fantasy, it is only legitimate to claim a limited intersection but not exclusion from the scientific domain. Acknowledging and investigating the partitions and overlap of each domain is where and why human development occurs.
n.n (d200a0) — 10/21/2015 @ 3:47 pmYou’ve got some impressive company. Einstein, for instance. He was raised by secular Jewish parents, was irreligious his entire life, didn’t believe in the God of the Bible, and thought the idea of a personal God was silly. But he did think there was a God, but that God was impersonal and unknowable. He just wanted to understand the universe as well as his limited human understanding was able to rather than wasting his time on the impossible question of does God exist or not. He said it angered him that atheists would use some of his statements about religion to support their atheism. He wasn’t an atheist, he just had no use for religion.
He had a point. Science can not answer that question. Science can only answer questions that can be quantified. Purportedly Einstein had a sign in his office that said, “Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.”
Where many atheists go off the rails is thinking science can disprove (or even has already done so). And that is one of the goals of science. But once you’ve decided that it’s the job of science to arrive at a particular conclusion than you are no longer discussing science but a religion.
,
Georges LeMaitre, the Catholic priest and father of the Big Bang theory, and his atheist enemy are examples of the phenomenon. Since LeMaitre was a Jesuit priest he was frequently and falsely accused of letting his religion influence his work; that he developed the Big Bang theory to prove the existence of the Creator. But he didn’t; science and religion were two entirely different, completely separate ways of understanding the universe and existence. And he presented his work and invited scrutiny.
Which already sets him apart from the scientific frauds behind the religion of climate change.
An atheist astronomer on the other hand wasted his life trying to prove LeMaitre wrong. Not because he found any flaw in the theory itself. But if there was a “Big Bang” (the atheist invented that name, and intended it to be derisive) then that meant there was a moment of creation. And a moment of creation implies a creator. And that implication drove him nuts. So there is a reason why very few people have ever heard of him. He stopped being a scientist and instead in a very real sense devoted all his energy to God. But not in worship, rather as a target to be destroyed.
Steve57 (9b30eb) — 10/21/2015 @ 4:51 pmA good philosophy is compromised of principles that are internally, externally, and mutually consistent.
Yes, is a belief internally consistent, does it “hang together”? Do some “hang together” better than others? Is that a logical reason why to believe one over another?
Ever read “Brothers Karamazov”? The trial, “A sword that cuts both ways”, as I understand it, is a wise commentary on epistemology/interpreting data.
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/21/2015 @ 5:19 pmSteve, some people say the Big Bang is described in the Zohar. Which is either by R. Simon bar Yochai c. 130 CE Galilee or Moses de Leon c. 1350 Spain, depending on whether you go with tradition or modern scholarship.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 10/21/2015 @ 7:06 pmBah, filter thought that long quote was spam.
….2nd attempt with no quote
kishnevi (31ba4e) — 10/21/2015 @ 7:11 pmSteve, some people say the Big Bang is described in the Zohar. Which is either by R. Simon bar Yochai c. 130 CE Galilee or Moses de Leon c. 1350 Spain, depending on whether you go with tradition or modern scholarship.
http://www.dhushara.com/book/torah/cardoza/zohar.htm
The pertinent part starts with the heading BERESHITHI Gen. i, i-vi, 8
@MD 249
Who wont answer me but is doing this for the benefit of the echo chamber:
This is not a belief, it is an acceptance of the fact that science and the scientific method has delivered “the goods” whilst ancient books of many types have not. Let me address your red herring questions next
I did not say any such thing, but evaluating something as beautiful is not actually an understanding of reality, but just an opinion.
I never said that, but how else would you discover this without observing / experiencing it?
Of course there is logic. The scientific method relies on it.
No mathematical concepts or relationships?
Of course these things exist. But again, to understand the world we need to hypothesize, experiment, and falsify. Sure math helps to explain scientific observations but math standing alone does not really help you understand reality. For example you can do experiments to determine that force, mass and acceleration are related. No amount of math by itself would tell you F=ma without experimentation / observation.
No right and wrong?
Yes there are rights and wrongs so what?
None of these questions has anything to do with my main point. Theology has nothing to do with reality.
Gil (4e1585) — 10/22/2015 @ 11:38 pmYour fear is palpable.
JD (3b5483) — 10/23/2015 @ 7:42 am263. The day, Jan. 2, 1980, I chose to agree with God an accept His claims at face value, about Himself and about me, was the day I found Joy.
Was i a Xian before that hour? Yes I suppose I met the criterion of confession, but lacked, in particular heartfelt gratitude.
Love ain’t never having to say you’re sorry.
DNF (45ef00) — 10/24/2015 @ 9:30 amYou guys hear that? It’s the sound of a mind closing. I guess for some ignorance truly is bliss.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 10/24/2015 @ 9:49 amGil (4e1585) at 10/22/2015 @ 11:38 pm:
@MD 249
Who wont answer me but is doing this for the benefit of
the echo chamberthose who have not yet learned to identify high-falutin’ BS when they see it:Exhibits A- ZZZ entered as above.
Does anyone need a discussion on the inadequacy of Gil’s “rebuttals”?
Gil reminds me of the dwarfs in Lewis’ The Last Battle
MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 10/24/2015 @ 10:39 amMD in Philly, don’t blame Gill for his inability to open his mind to ideas he never has , or should I say refuses to consider. I’ve known many people in my life who just did not have the mental capacity to wrap their minds around the idea of a Creator yet had no problem believing all the universe is just a big fantastic accident or a big bang if you will.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27) — 10/24/2015 @ 11:18 am