Patterico's Pontifications

10/13/2015

The Democrats Debate – Open Thread

Filed under: General — JVW @ 3:45 pm



[guest post by JVW]

The Democrat candidates for President meet in Las Vegas for the first of the party’s six scheduled debates, a DNC-imposed limit that has stirred up some controversy among party members who believe the limit is designed to help Hillary! Rodham Clinton easily sail through the primary season. Unlike the GOP with its two-tiered debates, the Dems have five candidates (all of them white, heterosexual, and born before the Beatles came to the U.S., with only two of them registering as Democrats in the early years of the GW Bush Administration) who will spend 150 minutes telling us why each of them believes that he or she is the logical successor to the dreary reign of Barack Obama.

Naturally the media is awash with horrible puns on “what happens in Vegas stays (or doesn’t stay) in Vegas” and “rolling the dice” on the candidates and all the other clichés that they can’t seem to leave well-enough alone. Time Magazine (yeah, I too had forgotten it was still around) put together a pretty lame drinking-game which isn’t snarky enough to be mildly interesting. Anderson Cooper of CNN, the moderator for tonight’s free-for-all, may or may not stir up direct confrontation among the candidates, but promises to challenge any statements made by a candidate which conflicts with his or her record.

One of the traditions of the pre-debate ritual is that every submits a list of questions that they would like to see the candidates answer. These questions are oftentimes little more than party talking points recycled as softball questions by lazy and sympathetic journalists to allow the candidates to preen and strut, or pointed and belligerent questions from the other camp which the candidates would never in a million years deign to answer. Still, one of the fun part of these debates is to ask yourself what questions you might have if you were on the panel. Feel free to add these in the comments, but do try to make an effort to include serious submissions that are direct and uncomfortable without being shrill and partisan.

ADDENDUM: And, of course, after the debate begins you are welcome to add your observations on what is said here, unless someone else opens a new post.

ADDENDUM 2: Did Facebook do something similar for the GOP debates?

Facebook

– JVW

184 Responses to “The Democrats Debate – Open Thread”

  1. Sen. Sanders, here is my question to you: Barack Obama has won two impressive electoral college victors assembling a coalition of young people, single women, and minorities, yet your party has been drubbed in two midterm elections when President Obama is not on the ballot. Given that, does your party’s agenda — not its leadership — really have broad-based support across the country and if so, why do Democrats fare so badly in midterms?

    JVW (aa050c)

  2. Sen. Webb, you have in the past talked up the plight of poor rural whites in this country. Does your party marginalize these voters, and do you think the solution is to target them with the same sort of government programs that have been extended towards urban minorities?

    JVW (aa050c)

  3. if i have to guess i’d bet the clotty-headed hoochie gets declared the winner

    i’m kinda wondering if o’malley will bring up lessig

    if I’m a make a prediction it’ll be that idiot simpleton kevin mccarthy’s recent comments will get big play tonight

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  4. ADDENDUM: And, of course, after the debate begins you are welcome to add your observations about what is said here, unless someone else opens a new post.

    JVW (aa050c)

  5. oops i jumped the gun

    [JVW – No, you didn’t. My wording was unclear, and I have tried to fix it to indicate that people can comment about anything debate-related here before the debate, during the debate, and after the debate. Thanks, happyfeet, for pointing out that my wording was confusing.]

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  6. if I’m a make a prediction it’ll be that idiot simpleton kevin mccarthy’s recent comments will get big play tonight

    Yep, and of course everyone will be invited to trash Donald Trump. I’m guessing that at least 2/3 of the questions asked will be absolute softballs.

    JVW (aa050c)

  7. JVW wrote: “… all of them … heterosexual”.
    nk says: Yeah, right.

    nk (dbc370)

  8. i still have to get on the train and get home so I’m not sure I’m gonna get to see any of this thing tonight

    also the anderson cooper experience is really kind of hard for me

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  9. Touché, nk.

    JVW (aa050c)

  10. If I want to see near septuagenarians talking over one another while trying desperately to hide their need for adult diapers, I’ll push my walker over to the Copernicus Center.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. My debate questions:

    Aren’t each of you ashamed of all the white privilege on that stage?

    Hillary! has said that all rape accusations should be taken seriously. Does that include those against Bill Clinton?

    Which of you is promising the most free stuff?

    Predicted actual questions:

    What is most evil about Republicans?

    What Barack Obama’s dreamiest quality?

    What is your favorite ice cream?

    Steve57 (d94282)

  12. Expect broad agreement about the awfulness of evil white Republicans.$19 trillion in debt, nary a mention.

    Bugg (fa64ec)

  13. Senator Webb-what the hell are you doing here?

    Bugg (fa64ec)

  14. Sen. Sanders, you are a self-described Democratic Socialist and a believer that government programs and wealth transfer schemes are the way to address rising inequality. Given the issues that we saw in the rollout of ObamaCare, and the appalling conditions at the Veteran’s Administration, and the ongoing controversies at the iRS, and the pollution spills recently caused by the EPA, why do you have so much faith in government’s ability to effectively deliver services? What checks would you put in place to ensure that government agencies functioned efficiently and how would you hold them accountable?

    JVW (ba78f9)

  15. Senator Webb, you were elected to one term in the Senate because your opponent was an idiot. Is that the basis of your hopes for this campaign?

    nk (dbc370)

  16. The CNN introduction video was indistinguishable from what would have been used for a Thursday Night Football game, or perhaps a mixed martial arts spectacle.

    Maybe they’ll have some Rollerball at the intermission.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  17. Thanks for watching, Beldar. I’m staying with baseball. Would you be so kind as to update us from time to time on all the pearls of wisdom that drop from the assorted donkey lips?

    JVW (ba78f9)

  18. 16. The CNN introduction video was indistinguishable from what would have been used for a Thursday Night Football game, or perhaps a mixed martial arts spectacle.

    Maybe they’ll have some Rollerball at the intermission.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 10/13/2015 @ 5:47 pm

    Intermission?

    Oh!

    You mean the Ensure & Geritol break.

    Steve57 (d94282)

  19. Gov. Lincoln
    Is it possible that funemployment numbers went down on your watch only because most everyone left for Texas?

    MSL (a8c328)

  20. This is kind of funny: I was going to switch over to the debate during the between-innings break at the baseball game, but for the life of me I don’t know where CNN is located on my TV service.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  21. Other proposed debate questions.

    Which one of you stayed up latest past your bed time to be here?

    Mrs. Clinton, does your Secret Service detail cut up your meals into tiny little bites for you or do they just throw everything into a blender and puree your meals for you?

    Steve57 (d94282)

  22. Ugh, I just turned over and Hillary! was bloviating. That voice — that voice. I’m suffering from an ear infection which has partially closed my right year, but she still sounds shrill and hectoring.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  23. Mr. Sanders, what do you miss most about Stalin?

    Steve57 (d94282)

  24. Wow, the Dodgers in the Month of October are up 3-0, my world feels kinda upside down. Except all the Democrats are promising more and more free stuff, so it must be real.

    MSL (a8c328)

  25. Bernard Sanders reminds me of that “U.S. History in the Gilded Age” professor you had sophomore year whose lectures devolved into spittle-flecked rants about Rockefeller, Carnegie, and Vanderbilt (Anderson Cooper’s great-great-great-granddad!) but whose class required pretty much zero effort and was thus popular among the laziest segment of your peers.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  26. O’Malley just said that “none of this is easy” with respect to putting in place police policies that help bring safe street without infringing upon civil rights. Yet he and his party seem to think that there are very easy answers as to how to bring in the tax revenue to pay for their pet social programs while still allowing business to create quality jobs and pay middle-class wages.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  27. The the first 2:00 minute “introduce yourself” round:

    Only one candidate on the stage had no need at all to introduce him- or herself. O’Malley, Webb, and Chafee all genuinely need an introduction — not one Democratic voter out of 100 could pick any of the three of them out of a police lineup. So they all spent their time talking about their fitness, their record, their credentials, and their philosophies.

    Sanders may need an introduction, but obviously decided to just bull ahead regardless. He spent his whole time on a very conventional Angry-Dem rant that didn’t actually mention himself or his plans to fix anything. “This is bad, that’s atrocious, yada yada.” He really is the Dems’ Trump; they mirror each other to the point they meet coming around the other side.

    Hillary didn’t need an introduction but desperately wanted to use her full two minutes telling everyone who already knows her things they’ve known about her for a long time, so that she didn’t have to talk about anything else. She filibustered her own introduction.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  28. Hey, did Facebook do this for the GOP debates?

    [Edit: nevermind. Trying to attach an image of the Facebook status field which has been customized for the Dem debate, but it doesn’t seem to work.

    Edit 2: Added the picture as an addendum to the body of the post.]

    JVW (ba78f9)

  29. Ohhhhh Las Vegas meh
    ain’t no place for a poor boy
    or weak suck debate

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. Here’s teh point guvenuh… Sanders is like Aunt Jemima to the ears…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  31. This Jack Webb guy… he’s got the bodyguard vote locked down!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  32. Chafee needs better dentures.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. Nuclear arms deal, reset, so many travel miles under Hillary!’s Depends. Just tell Putin it’s not acceptable!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  34. Chafee… is he walleyed?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. Webb wanted everyone to know that he has always supported affirmative action for blacks, because of the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow. He’s just opposed to it for other “people of color.” Way to rally the Hispanics and feminists there, Jimmy.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  36. So we’ve come to this: Hillary Clinton, wrapping herself in the patriotic flag of capitalism. This is indeed a strange year.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  37. Ewww 25 times… Obama valued her judgment, he did NOT want to keep his enemy closer!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. Clinton acts like she hasn’t been laid by man or woman in about 31 years.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  39. Tough talk from a former mayor of the Baltimore Wastelands…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  40. Clinton choppin’ it up…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. I’m watching on cnn.com

    I noticed that many camera angles include Hillary! in the frame. Talk about maximizing face-time.

    Yeah this is a set piece for her campaign. also, I noticed how “scripted and prompted the applause seems to me.

    LOL!

    Anderson Cooper: “Sen Sanders would you respond?”

    Sanders: “Huh?”

    felipe (56556d)

  42. That right there was worth tuning in.

    felipe (56556d)

  43. Ah, the “B” word rears it head!

    Clinton:”I’ll address that later!”

    Yeah, like in her memoir!

    felipe (56556d)

  44. I hear that the gun control discussion already took place. Glad to have missed that pointless pander-fest. Hooray for baseball.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  45. O’Malley’s relative youth makes him pop, visually, on this stage. He’s arguing with Sanders now, and (just talking visuals here, not words or substance) he looks like Jack Kennedy in 1960 if Kennedy had been debating Eisenhower instead of Nixon. He’s going to see a bounce of some sort just from that.

    Bernie looks grumpy and defensive and really, really, old.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  46. OMG! AGW is the greatest threat according to Bernie. I’m done. Nothing to see here for me.

    felipe (56556d)

  47. Bernie looks grumpy and defensive and really, really, old.
    Beldar (fa637a) — 10/13/2015 @ 6:41 pm

    Yeah.

    Sanders: When I was a young man – I’m not young anymore (laughter).

    felipe (56556d)

  48. Words unsaid during entire gun control discussion: “Second Amendment.”

    Beldar (fa637a)

  49. Ah — the former Republican Senator finally says “Second Amendment” and is immediately interrupted by someone else (O’Malley).

    (I’m a few minutes behind in my viewing, btw, if the sequence of my comments seems odd to those watching in real time.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  50. Sanders: When I was a young man – I’m not young anymore (laughter).

    Remember how the left and their media allies mocked Bob Dole in 1996 for being old and out of touch? Are any of them going to mention that Bernard Sanders in 2016 will be two years older than Bob Dole was in 1996? And Bob Dole had way more substantial accomplishments by that point in his lifetime than Bernard Sanders has had.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  51. Cognitive dissonance alert:

    Someone brings out the fact that Bernie Sanders was chairman of the Veterans Affairs committee when the Dems controlled the Senate, which is also when the recent and on-going treatment scandals festered and developed.

    But amazingly, it is Sanders himself who brings this out! He’s bragging as if having been head of that committee was a good thing, a selling point in his personal resume. Will anyone call him on this?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  52. Chafee looks like one of those bird who dips over, over, over farther, over all the way — until his beak is in the water-glass, and he starts over. I expect him to start bobbing forward any moment.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  53. But amazingly, it is Sanders himself who brings this out!

    In Bernard Sanders’ worldview a government program is never repetitive, inefficient, or corrupt. All of them are just grand and absolutely necessary.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  54. Hillary! is lying about the tough stance that she took with Wall Street. Now she wants them all to go to jail.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  55. Clayton to Webb: Tell us about Hillary and Benghazi.

    Webb: Let’s talk about China!

    Beldar (fa637a)

  56. I think Clinton was given these questions in advance. I’d put money on it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  57. Sanders: Russian casualty levels in Syria will cause the Russian people to give Putin a strong message.

    Because, you know, the Russians were so famous during WW1, WW2, and every other fricking war they’ve ever fought since the dawn of time because of their sensitivity to casualty levels.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  58. Are you willing to run on Obama’s record?

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  59. O’Malley has some stones talking about a better future in Baltimore… jaysus H. Keerist

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  60. My word, could Lincoln Chaffe be any dumber?

    JVW (ba78f9)

  61. I gotta get me one of those Hillary! Bobbleheads!

    Colonel Haiku (0f4bb0)

  62. I only switched over briefly during a baseball commercial, but did every Democrat on stage just come out in favor of extending ObamaCare subsidies to illegal immigrants?

    JVW (ba78f9)

  63. Two words define them: Taxes and Free. Tax the rich and make everything free. It’s all so simple and easy.

    Dana (86e864)

  64. Yes, JVW, but I think Hillary wants it built into comprehensive immigration reform.

    Dana (86e864)

  65. Yep, Lincoln Chaffe is dumber than a post.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  66. I can’t listen to Bernie Sanders without thinking of “Coffee Twahk”

    Colonel Haiku (0f4bb0)

  67. Wow. Hillary!’s answer to the question as to how her administration would not be a third term for Obama is because she’s a gal. And of course that brought lots of cheers from the pathetic Hillary! crowd.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  68. I liked how they all bowed to the black lives matter question, every other life no so much….

    MSL (a8c328)

  69. Eh, we need a green energy revolution…

    Dana (86e864)

  70. And their renewable energy polices hurt the poor and middle class the most, the very people they are trying to pander to. Making lots of energy off of dead birds cost lots of money, money the poor and middle class can’t afford.

    MSL (a8c328)

  71. Hillary! answered the “why should we elect an insider like you” question by saying because she’s a gal. And of course that brought lots of cheers from the pathetic Hillary! crowd.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  72. Sanders says there are 4,000 pro-Bernie houseparties going on right now with 100,000 participants. So the average Sanders supporter lives in a house that can host 25 people? That’s some really crowded walkup studios in Brooklyn and courtyard apartments in Venice Beach!

    JVW (ba78f9)

  73. As best I can tell, under President Hillary!, any one from Wall Street who forecloses on a mortgage will go to jail.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  74. However: With the sound on, O’Malley’s voice is annoyingly sing-song. He’s a Ken doll.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  75. It’s nuts: work hard to grab your piece of the American Dream and become and economic success and gain wealth- but just know that we will bleed you dry in taxes to pay for everyone else. Why would anyone even want to try, just to get penalized for their success?

    Dana (86e864)

  76. Chafee and Webb may find people waiting to beat them up outside the stage doors. They won few friends tonight among this crowd.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  77. I would bet a large amount of money that all of the people who’re screaming approval during Bernie’s applause lines — they sound quite young — would find themselves with urgent prior commitments if they were asked to speed a weekend alone with him.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  78. Clinton had these questions in advance, she’s way too robotic.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  79. Col,

    That’s her being genuine and authentic. She just practiced a lot.

    Dana (86e864)

  80. She is the recipient of a TimeWarnerCNN gift of an advance draft of the questions.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  81. Economy “does so much better with a Democrat in the White House”, all evidence to the contrary. Clinton is on to something.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  82. Again, with full disclosure that I only switched over to the debate in-between innings of the Dodgers-Mets game, here is my take on each participants performance:

    Lincoln Chaffee: Maybe the debate’s most pathetic moment occurred when he tried to explain away his vote in favor of bank consolidation by saying that he was brand-new to the Senate and still grieving for his dad. Because, you know, we have done so well the last seven years making the Presidency an on-the-job training program.

    Jim Webb: Hey, I’m willing to pander to the Democrat base to some degree, but these socialists up here with me are whack.

    Martin O’Malley: Everything that went well in Baltimore and Maryland over the past 20 years is directly attributable to his leadership, but everything that has gone poorly is not his fault. “Hillary!, I would make a great VP selection if you are willing to go with a straight white male.”

    Bernard Sanders: I’m not only going to win this thing, but my coattails are going to bring in 65 new House Democrats and 10 new Dems in the Senate, and after that my socialist policies will sail through Congress and unite people across America. And I believe in fairy godmothers too.

    Hillary! Rodham Clinton: Maybe I am mis-remembering, but wasn’t Obama a whole lot more subtle about the “elect the black guy” thing back in 2008 than Hillary! is with her whole “vote for the gal” thing this year?

    JVW (ba78f9)

  83. If Sanders were a true socialist wouldn’t he have used a .org domain instead of a .com one for his campaign website?

    JVW (ba78f9)

  84. http://twitchy.com/2015/10/13/legitimate-cop-out-sheriff-david-clarke-explains-why-he-isnt-watching-the-demdebate/

    David A. Clarke, Jr.
    ✔ @SheriffClarke

    @ChristiChat @RWSurferGirl @realDonaldTrump I’m watching Mets/Dodgers. If I want to be lied to I’ll interrogate a criminal.

    8:51 PM – 13 Oct 2015

    Steve57 (d94282)

  85. Let us know if Hillary! can explain how women should have control of their bodies, except for maybe when under sexual assault by her husband??

    And JVW, when the hell did the “Beatles coming to America” become a benchmark…? By that time some of us had already flunked out of college (the first time) and were working in the ready-mix plant.

    I don’t get CNN on Dish, so I’m hangin’ here while I watch Homicide Hunter….

    Gramps, the original (bc022b)

  86. I get so confused watching these Democrats. They spend most of the night talking about sticking it the “rich” guy so everyone can have “free” stuff. Then the gal that would love to be POTUS talks about you working your ass off and you keeping your own stuff. ????
    Man it’s all so oxymoronic.

    MSL (a8c328)

  87. Naturally the media is awash with horrible puns on “what happens in Vegas stays (or doesn’t stay) in Vegas”

    The debate should have been held in Motown, Michigan, where over 90 percent of the electorate is pro-liberal, pro-Democrat and therefore the perfect reflection of what liberalism does to a people and place. Or since the left waxes poetic for that which has a foreign tinge and a somewhat anti-American air about it, the debate should have been held in Venezuela, which is sort of a Detroit (although perhaps not pro-leftwing into the 90 percentile range) beyond the borders of the US.

    Mark (f713e4)

  88. Maybe I am mis-remembering

    He wasn’t that subtle, but he found different ways of saying it, and sometimes injected a bit of eloquence.
    But also remember that Hillary was using the ” elect me because I have ovaries” theme in 2008.

    kishnevi (31ba4e)

  89. BTW, thank you to those who selflessly endured the debate on behalf of those of us who had better things to do.

    kishnevi (28fa9f)

  90. Every time O’Malley says “clean electric grid,” he takes on this Pepsident smile — like he’s just given away the prize behind door number one (“A brand new car!”).

    He’s a very creepy guy. An android, I think. But he’ll get a bounce tonight, couple or three percent at least. I think most of it will come from Sanders or Biden fans.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  91. Beldar-MONORAIL!

    Bugg (fa64ec)

  92. He’s a very creepy guy.

    Anyone who’s over the age of, say, 45 and still of the left — or who has moved to the left — makes me suspicious, makes me think of the type of person who’s a bit more likely to be an out-and-out creep in private.

    Mark (f713e4)

  93. But he’ll get a bounce tonight, couple or three percent at least. I think most of it will come from Sanders or Biden fans.

    Beldar, what’s your take on how the post-debate polls will shake out? I have no sense for what Democrats think, so here’s just a wild guess:

    Chaffee: no traction before the debate, no traction afterwards; his candidacy is over
    Webb: maybe the last one or two moderate Dems who aren’t enthralled with Hillary! will join him; slight uptick.
    O’Mally: the progressive alternative to Sanders’s socialism and Hillary!’s venality? Beldar predicts an uptick of 2-3%.
    Sanders: did he come across as reasonable to Democrats who are worried about a Brooklyn-born Vermont socialist?
    Clinton: did she seem more personable and likable, or was this another nail in the coffin of those lefties who find her to be over-rehearsed and dishonest?

    Either Clinton or Sanders will be down 3-4%, with the other one holding steady. I’m sure the pollsters will also ask how Joe Biden would affect the race, so that will be interesting to see too.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  94. 89. BTW, thank you to those who selflessly endured the debate on behalf of those of us who had better things to do.

    kishnevi (28fa9f) — 10/13/2015 @ 8:11 pm

    Like me. I had better things to do. Like, dunno, deworm the dog. Clip my nails. Hone the straight razor.

    Yeah, that’s it.

    I can’t speak for your morning ritual, kishnevi, but after enduring the life threatening experience of presenting a straight razor to my throat each morning, my day can only get better from there.

    http://www.artofmanliness.com/2014/01/31/how-to-shave-with-a-straight-razor-video/

    For extra points, try this on a rolling, pitching ship.

    Which, by the way, I’d rather do than watch a Democrat debate.

    Steve57 (d94282)

  95. Now Hillary insists that the proof of the harmlessness of paid family leave laws is California — yes, California, which is hemorrhaging jobs and wage-earning population.

    You cannot shame the shameless. They will stare you in the face and insist that 2 + 2 = 7, and never blink, never bat an eye.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  96. Now Hillary insists that the proof of the harmlessness of paid family leave laws is California — yes, California, which is hemorrhaging jobs and wage-earning population.

    And is only even slightly saved by the fact that we have (1) a desirable coastal climate that makes it pleasant to live here year-round which leads to (2) a wealthy class in entertainment and technology whose taxes prop up the failed socialist state.

    Just try to have a California-style social welfare state in Nebraska or Kentucky.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  97. The consensus among the Tweeting of NRO staff is that Clinton handily won the debate and will coast to victory unless the boys step up their criticism of her. O’Malley won’t unless his candidacy gains major traction because he sees himself as a potential VP pick of hers, Chaffee is too dumb, Webb too insignificant. So that leaves Sanders who keeps claiming he won’t go negative against her. I guess time will tell.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  98. I’m thinking some substantial number of Democrats who didn’t know much about Jim Webb have been startled tonight in ways they found very unpleasant.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  99. Steve, I have used a Norelco for almost all my life.

    I’m listening to some of this
    http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Complete-Sonatas-Ludwig-van/dp/B00005UOMP/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1444793942&sr=8-1&keywords=Annie+fischer+Beethoven

    Someone I know insists it is about the best set of Ludwig’s sonatas around. He has over 90 different complete sets, so I figured he would know. It is very good, but I am not sure it really is Da Best.

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  100. In his last 90 seconds, Sanders finally concedes, in a throw-away one-liner: “This is a great country.” Followed by: “But we should not be the country [yada yada] ….” Such a relentlessly ugly, grumpy old man he is! How forcefully, for a man of his years, doth he he slay the rhetorical strawmen!

    Beldar (fa637a)

  101. Okay, I’ve caught up to the ending.

    I think Hillary’s fans will be ecstatic — over the moon. She was at her very best tonight, a virtuoso of Clintonean political stagecraft. I don’t think she’ll improve, but I think she shored up a ton of supporters, for the moment, and the most astonishing moment of the night — Bernie’s “I’m sick of hearing from the Republicans about your emails” — must of felt like a rush of fine cocaine to all the Clintonistas in their crypts and warrens.

    Jim Webb tickled the hell out of me. I rank him higher than two or three of the GOP nominees who haven’t dropped out yet, actually. But he’s nuts, and I expect that the polite applause he got tonight as a ex-Marine will be the last he hears this entire campaign.

    Chafee was also very, very funny.

    Neither Webb nor Chafee laid a glove on anyone else.

    As I’ve said before, I think O’Malley will get a bump, almost entirely at Sanders’ expense.

    Now I’m going to read others’ comments here — I haven’t read any yet — to see if I have any reactions. 😀

    Beldar (fa637a)

  102. kishnevi @99, I’ve been trying to improve my education by listening to 101.1 WRR, the classical station in Dallas. But I’m so doltish I can’t distinguish Bach from Beethoven as of yet.

    Steve57 (d94282)

  103. Good stuff, Beldar. Thanks for participating on this comments thread.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  104. It would be interesting to see Biden and Clinton square off. He can be very nasty. Of course, he also makes stuff up but sounds authoritative when doing so. I don’t know Hillary would respond to any direct attacks. Eventually, Bernie (and/or Biden) will have to.

    Dana (86e864)

  105. @ JVW (#82): Very droll, very apt summary!

    @ Col. H (too many to list): I noticed that too.

    @ Dana (#79): Yes, Hillary is totally at ease and well prepared — “practiced” almost to the point of the reaching the robotic uncanny valley effect, if that means anything to you.

    @ JVW (#93): I dunno re Webb. I think he actually is the last Yellow Dog Democrat left in the party. I think there will be petitions signed saying that his presence on the stage constitutes a micro-aggression, such that if he still qualifies for the next one, he has to be confined in a soundproof booth or something, with trigger warnings. Webb was practically on snowflake assault duty tonight, and I think he’ll have made a lot of active enemies, actually.

    I give Anderson Cooper at least an A-. I thought he was pretty good, as was Dana Bash in her much more limited capacity. The questions during the first hour were pretty peppery; the rest consisted mostly of softballs, but they were softballs well selected to be batted back and forth (i.e., they did bring out some disagreements among the field).

    Beldar (fa637a)

  106. Sanders is just a spectacularly uncongenial man. At best, for some, he might eventually generate some sort of warm and wary response. He’s closer to Archie Bunker than Lou Grant; he’s damned unlovable (in a political sense of the word “love”).

    His poll numbers reflect the absence of another alternative to Hillary for the most part. When Biden gets in, he’ll lose most of those people, and all who’ll be left are the blue-state white Occupy Wall Street-type liberals, who even fully energized are never going to produce more than 10-15% in a Democratic Primary vote.

    Tonight confirmed to me that Sanders has no path to the White House because he has no chance of energizing the non-white turnout upon which the Obama elections depended. It may be possible to turn out those same voters on the issues Sanders is running on, but if so, he is not the guy who could ever possibly do that. He may still have a glimmer of a path to the Democratic nomination, though I still think the Republican Party couldn’t possibly get that lucky. I don’t expect his supporters to crater as a result of this performance, but I don’t think he helped himself, and I think he lost terribly on all the “optics.”

    Biden had to have been hoping that Hillary got beaten up worse than she did tonight. Col. H, re your “keep your enemies closer” comment above (#37): Yes, it was funny to watch Hillary try to claim that Obama’s pick of her as SecState constituted the political equivalent of a presidential pardon for her Iraq War vote, and there were a couple of other times Hillary seemed to me to be conspicuously sucking up to Obama or at least trying to bask in some of his reflected glory. But if Obama has already decided to pull the rug out from under Hillary and anoint Biden instead, then the question becomes how to be secure that result, which in turn becomes very much a question of timing, which is something over which Obama — and his Department of Justice — have a great deal of control. I’ve thought for some time that Biden for sure, and possibly Obama as Biden’s potential benefactor/accomplice, have been waiting to see how Hillary did tonight, and next, how she does in her Benghazi committee testimony, before deciding how best to stage-manage Biden’s last-minute entry into the race. But when you can pull an indictment out of your hat pretty much whenever you feel like it, you’ve got a lot of flexibility, don’t you?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  107. You are a good man, Beldar. I hope you don’t mind the fact I’m the source of the verdict.

    Steve57 (d94282)

  108. Yeah, from what I saw it appeared that Cooper did an OK job. But at the next debate the moderators are going to have to stop letting the candidates pander to the far left of their base and ask questions like this:

    Sen. Sanders, you argue that you plans to expand ObamaCare into Medicare for all will largely be paid for by eliminating waste and duplication in the health insurance industry and negotiating for lower prescription drug prices. If those savings don’t materialize will your plan be scaled back? Will co-pays and deductibles increase? Will the overruns just be added to the deficit?

    Also, Sen. Sanders, given that the Congress will likely be divided between the two parties with Democrats possibly continuing to be a minority in one or both branches, how are you going to get your agenda passed?

    Secretary Clinton, your husband has gone on record as suggesting that corporate income taxes should be lowered to keep the U.S. competitive with other western nations. Given that, and given that you and the rest of the candidates seeking your party’s nomination support requiring paid leave and more vacation time for workers and raising the social security taxes paid on the incomes of the highest earners, shouldn’t any additional regulatory burdens you place on businesses be offset by lower tax rates? If so, how would you make up that lost income?

    Sen. Sanders and/or Sec. Clinton, both of you have discussed making education at public universities and colleges free, with Sec. Clinton believing that part of the costs should come from the student participating in work-study programs. Under what Constitutional authority should the federal government be meddling in the higher education policy of the 50 states? Wouldn’t your plans be disadvantageous to private colleges and universities and perhaps hasten their demise?

    JVW (ba78f9)

  109. By far the most chilling moment of the debate, for me:

    Hillary had been pooh-poohing the email issues, and had just scored her big hit (this was at 9:49pm Eastern, I don’t have a link) when Bernie pointedly refused to discuss the subject. As the audience’s applause over Bernie’s & Hillary’s resulting handshake is dying down, Anderson Cooper turns to Chafee:

    Cooper: That plays well in this room, but I gotta be honest. Governor Chafee, for the record, on the campaign trail, you said a different thing, you said this [the emails] is a huge issue. Standing here in front of Secretary Clinton, are you willing to say that to her face?

    Chafee: Absolutely! We have to repair American credibility after we told the world that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction [WTF?], which he didn’t. So there’s an issue of American credibility out there. So any time someone’s running to be our leader, and a world leader, which the American president is, credibility is an issue. Out there with the world. And you have repair work that needs to be done. I think we need someone that has the best in ethical standards as our next president. That’s how I feel.

    Cooper: Secretary Clinton, do you want to respond?

    Clinton [smiling beatifically]: No.

    The audience went wild. The Democrats cheered Hillary Clinton for refusing to comment on whether someone needs the best ethical standards to be president.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  110. Always glad for kind words, steve57 (#108), thanks.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  111. Is there any state in the Union other than Vermont where Sanders could have been elected? I suppose Jerry Brown is roughly as weird, so maybe California. But it’s not an accident that Bernie Sanders and Howard Dean are both from Vermont. Wouldn’t you hate to have to share a taxi with either of them?

    Beldar (fa637a)

  112. I would love to hear some people in the know spill the dirt on the relationship between Sanders and Dean. I get the feeling that the two of them probably don’t like each other. No real evidence to support that assertion, it’s just the feeling I get when evaluating the two personalities that Dean would see Sanders as an unreliable showboat and Sanders would see Dean as an insider partisan flake. According to MSNBC, Dean has endorsed Hillary! for the nomination.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  113. This is my favorite set for Beethoven Sonatas.

    felipe (56556d)

  114. Beldar, if George W Bush was on the CA ballot as a Democrat, he would win by at lest 10 points.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  115. Sen. Sanders, you argue that you plans to expand ObamaCare into Medicare for all will largely be paid for by eliminating waste and duplication in the health insurance industry and negotiating for lower prescription drug prices. If those savings don’t materialize will your plan be scaled back? Will co-pays and deductibles increase? Will the overruns just be added to the deficit?

    JVW, take that to the next step. If, after you roll Obamacare into Medicare for All, and if those savings don’t materialize will you scale things back, or raise payroll taxes? If you scale things back, will Medicare itself be scaled back? Or will you raise payroll taxes? If so, how much of a tax hike would be too much in your view?

    Sanders is playing with fire with this Medicare scheme.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  116. I’m thinking some substantial number of Democrats who didn’t know much about Jim Webb have been startled tonight in ways they found very unpleasant.

    I’m thinking that there are some old-time Dems who wonder why this hasn’t been said for so long. You know, the ones who elected people like Scoop Jackson. Believe it or not, there are a lot of registered Democrats who believe that all lives matter, that capitalism is basically a good idea, and maybe differ with the GOP on some social issues (but not all of them). As their party heads into the left-statist corner of the Nolan chart they have to view a Jim Webb as refreshing.

    Democrats are members of a center-left coalition that has been hijacked by the far left and I expect Webb to get a bounce. It’s not like he has any competition for the moderate Dems.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  117. The Dem candidate will win. According to FoxNews poll,more than half polled approve of the PotUS
    Presidential Approval
    Approve 51%
    Disapprove 47%

    seeRpea (33fb5c)

  118. seepea

    and Reuters has it 53-40 disapproving Obama.

    Rasmussen has it 53-46 against Obama (and 42-23 strongly against vs strongly for)

    Obama has not been ahead in the RCP average of polls in any time in the past two years.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  119. So Trump had the line of the night, good for him as he seems to care about our wounded warriors.
    Not one pos republican running for president has said anything about how flucked up our V.A. has become under obama. Not only do they not care, they want to keep sending them to wars they won’t let them win. ROE is a flicking joke. Damn the republicans.

    mg (31009b)

  120. that was unwatchable

    the Anderson Cooper robot was a visual marvel but hard to take seriously as a moderator

    i watched a little

    Webb and the Maryland guy squandered the opportunity I thought

    Mr. The Donald really does seem to be the only rational choice what we’re left with

    how did this happen

    i can’t get behind any of the dead fetus humping kim davis butt-snufflers

    that’s just not my thing

    what’s sad is everyone but chafee came across as more prepared and more presidential than fruit loop ben carson

    happyfeet (831175)

  121. So Trump had the line of the night, good for him as he seems to care about our wounded warriors. Not one pos republican running for president has said anything about how flucked up our V.A. has become under obama. Not only do they not care, they want to keep sending them to wars they won’t let them win. ROE is a flicking joke. Damn the republicans.

    mg (31009b) — 10/14/2015 @ 1:09 am

    mg is like Gil. Does he have anything to say other than how he hates Republicans? It’s a monomania. If he was new to this board I’d suspect him of being a Democrat.

    How did the Republicans not let them win?

    What if one of the other candidates says something about the VA? He’d say “He’s just saying that! Damn the Republicans”. Of course we could say Trump is just saying something. He says lots of things.

    Both Romney and McCain backed a constructive voucher proposal to let veterans go outside the government run system. My guess is his guy Trump would oppose it and that’s fine with mg. He’s not interested in specific proposals on this or anything else. He likes how Trump talks and, most importantly (actually the only thing of any importance), the Republican establishment doesn’t like him.

    Gerald A (e1ec12)

  122. mg is perspicacious with a keen sense of the moment

    happyfeet (831175)

  123. In fact Huckabee had the best comments on last night’s debate.

    example: I trust @BernieSanders with my tax dollars like I trust a North Korean chef with my labrador!

    Gerald A (e1ec12)

  124. I watched five people falling all over each other to NOT debate but rather to see how much of our money they can give to people who didn’t earn it.

    They’re gonna have the young voting in droves for free college, Hispanics voting for entitlements for illegals (their relatives), the rich to keep crony capitalism in place and profitable, the unions voting for minimum wage, and the blacks for a continuation of benefits and funding for PP. Throw in the fags, dykes, trannies, mentally ill, drug addicts, prostitutes and the rest of organized crime and I don’t think a Republican stands a chance.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  125. We did not watch the debate; we watched Man of Steel, and probably saw less fiction than was on the Democratic debates.

    The Dana disgusted with all Democrats (f6a568)

  126. I think zac Snyder is just too grim, Chris Nolan has a better grasp on the material.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  127. But Amy Adam’s was better than kate Bosworth.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  128. 110. …The audience went wild. The Democrats cheered Hillary Clinton for refusing to comment on whether someone needs the best ethical standards to be president.

    Beldar (fa637a) — 10/13/2015 @ 9:58 pm

    According to the polls a majority of Americans think Hillary! is dishonest.

    For many if not most rank-and-file Democrats, that is a plus. They hope she is dishonest enough to get away with it.

    Wake up and smell the coffee, boys and girls.

    Steve57 (d94282)

  129. Post debate question:

    Did all the local Walmarts get their electric riding carts back from the candidates?

    Steve57 (d94282)

  130. I watched five people falling all over each other to NOT debate but rather to see how much of our money they can give to people who didn’t earn it.

    Exactly, Rev. Hoagie. I don’t know who is moderating the next Dem debate or who is on the questioning panel, but if there aren’t several questions directed to the general notion of “How are you going to have high taxes, big government, and lots of freebies, but still have an economic climate in which businesses are willing to create jobs?” then we’ll know that the MSM is totally in the bag for the donkey party.

    JVW (ba78f9)

  131. Post debate question:

    Did all the local Walmarts get their electric riding carts back from the candidates?

    Not coincidentally, Walmart’s union ran an ad on the morning cable shows showing various Walmart employees demanding the candidates back the union’s agenda. Name checked Hillary,Betnie and Joe (Biden,I assume) and “you Republicans too”.
    Steve, at least you have a classical station in your area. Reaon I started buying CDs is because there is none here. (Currently, the NPR station offers it only on their HD station, and I don’t have an HD radio. But with all the CDs I have now I could run my own station

    kishnevi (31ba4e)

  132. Bingo!, JVW. How about: You’re for income equality, exactly how much should every person get paid? Who gets to decide? You believe AGW or as you call it now Climate Change, exactly what temperature should the earth be? How much are you willing to spend to get to that Ideal temperature, then stay there? Who will pay this money and how? Do you believe Black Lives Matter more than white lives?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  133. Verdict: last night’s debate winner was Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, who has fought tooth and nail against critics who want more debates.

    After the misery of wallowing through the debate last night, absolutely no one in America is demanding more of the same.

    Steve57 (d94282)

  134. you underestimate the appetite for masochism, Steve,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  135. I’ve got 10 bucks that this woman is voting for Hillary!

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/13/woman-sues-11-year-old-nephew-hug-broke-wrist

    A Manhattan human resources manager is suing her 12-year-old nephew for leaping into her arms when he welcomed her to his eighth birthday party.

    The aunt, Jennifer Connell, claims her nephew acted unreasonably when his exuberant greeting caused her to fall and break her wrist in 2011, the Westport News reported from the courthouse on Monday.

    …She is seeking $127,000 in damages from the boy, whose mother died last year. Westport News also reported that the 12-year-old appeared confused as he sat in the courtroom with his father.

    …“I was at a party recently, and it was difficult to hold my hors d’oeuvre plate,” she reportedly said.

    Of course, since their primary race is essentially a search for the worst human being on Earth, when the Dems find out about her they just may make her the party’s nominee instead of Hillary!

    Steve57 (d94282)

  136. Follow on debate question:

    When asked if black lives matter or all lives matter, everyone except Jim Webb said black lives matter. A question for the other four. Would you like to explain to the 87% of the voters who aren’t black and whose lives don’t matter as far as you’re concerned why they should vote for you?

    Steve57 (d94282)

  137. If this guy had ever dog-sat as a teenager for a Republican this would be on the front page of the NYT, the WaPo, and the lead story at the top of every hour on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, and MSNBC.

    Diversity! In all its left-wing glory.

    http://blogs.rollcall.com/hill-blotter/levin-staffer-arrested-for-allegedly-beating-lover-with-shovel/?dcz=

    Baltimore City Police arrested an aide to Rep. Sander M. Levin, D-Mich., at around 2:30 a.m. on Oct. 8 for criminal domestic violence charges.

    Tim Foster, a native of Henderson, Ky., brutally beat his male lover with a small black and red shovel, according to a police report obtained by CQ Roll Call, leaving the victim hospitalized with abrasions and bruises on his upper back, neck and torso.

    The dispute started around 12:30 a.m. inside a Northwest Baltimore home, when Foster, 32, got into a verbal argument with the 39-year-old black male identified as his boyfriend.

    Foster put his boyfriend in a choke hold and stated, “I want to kill you. Die dirty faggy,” the man later told police.

    As you can no doubt tell from Tim Foster’s prose, Rep. Levin

    Steve57 (d94282)

  138. Gird yer pantsuit, ya sad old grandma… this means war!!!

    THE DEEPER SIGNIFICANCE OF HILLARY’S ‘ENEMIES’ GAFFE: At the Corner, Jonah Goldberg writes:

    “This should properly be considered a Kinsley gaffe in that she accidentally told the truth. For much of the night, she stuck to her focus-grouped talking points, boasting about how she knows how to build consensus and work the system in Washington “to get things done.” And then, in a spontaneous slip, she revealed that she considers Republicans — altogether — not only her enemy, but the enemy she is most proud of. It would have been nice if Anderson Cooper, Jim Webb or one of the pushovers on stage had seized that point and asked, “How can you talk about building consensus when you’ve just boasted that you consider all Republicans your enemy?” Clinton is much more of a Manichean than she usually lets on. That’s one reason she keeps Sid Blumenthal on retainer as a Wormtongue. He says the things about Republican conspirators she wants to hear and believe.”

    Colonel Haiku (0f4bb0)

  139. If this guy had ever dog-sat as a teenager for a Republican this would be on the front page of the NYT, the WaPo, and the lead story at the top of every hour on ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, and MSNBC.

    Diversity! In all its left-wing glory.

    http://blogs.rollcall.com/hill-blotter/levin-staffer-arrested-for-allegedly-beating-lover-with-shovel/?dcz=

    Baltimore City Police arrested an aide to Rep. Sander M. Levin, D-Mich., at around 2:30 a.m. on Oct. 8 for criminal domestic violence charges.

    Tim Foster, a native of Henderson, Ky., brutally beat his male lover with a small black and red shovel, according to a police report obtained by CQ Roll Call, leaving the victim hospitalized with abrasions and bruises on his upper back, neck and torso.

    The dispute started around 12:30 a.m. inside a Northwest Baltimore home, when Foster, 32, got into a verbal argument with the 39-year-old black male identified as his boyfriend.

    Foster put his boyfriend in a choke hold and stated, “I want to kill you. Die dirty faggy,” the man later told police.

    As you can no doubt tell from Tim Foster’s prose, Rep. Levin (D – Michigan) employs the gent in communications.

    And if the story isn’t mind-boggling enough for you:

    …Foster lunged at his boyfriend with the knife. But Foster’s wife “got in the way” and the knife then fell to the floor, the report states.

    No doubt Foster was upset with his boyfriend for always taking his wife’s side in their arguments. Or, err, something.

    Steve57 (d94282)

  140. #118… don’t get yer panties in a wad, seeRpee, it ain’t over til it’s over.

    Colonel Haiku (0f4bb0)

  141. 141. …It would have been nice if Anderson Cooper, Jim Webb or one of the pushovers on stage had seized that point and asked, “How can you talk about building consensus when you’ve just boasted that you consider all Republicans your enemy?”

    They’re democrats, coronello. That means they’re trained seals that bark and clap on demand and never speak out of turn, especially not to the haggard queen.

    …Clinton is much more of a Manichean than she usually lets on. That’s one reason she keeps Sid Blumenthal on retainer as a Wormtongue. He says the things about Republican conspirators she wants to hear and believe.”

    Colonel Haiku (0f4bb0) — 10/14/2015 @ 12:17 pm

    Some people think Hillary! was taking a risk by keeping a scumbag like Blumenthal around, especially after Obama and his inner circle told her in no uncertain terms that he wasn’t to have any role at state.

    Personally, I think it was the other way around.

    Steve57 (d94282)

  142. I just saw that Curt Schilling in a Tweet to Donald Trump stated that ISIS was the winner of the democrat debate. Who can argue that logic?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  143. Again, the idiots speak and prove beyond any doubt they know nothing:

    Bernie Sanders’s Denmark love is another reminder that our Democratic friends, who imagine themselves to be worldly cosmopolitans more at ease with sophisticated European ways, don’t actually know a damned thing about what’s going on overseas. For those of you who are keeping score, the Heritage Foundation, which literally keeps score, rates Denmark’s economy as slightly more free – slightly more capitalistic — than that of the United States. Denmark is in a rough spot just lately, but it has been undergoing a series of deep and intelligent reforms to its welfare state (as have many of the other Northern European countries) to counteract the ill effects of earlier excesses. Its corporate-income tax is much lower than that of the United States. Its regulatory environment is in many ways more free. It is very free-trade oriented. What Denmark does have — what all the Nordic countries have — is relatively high taxes on the middle class, which gets double-whammied with income taxes and a value-added tax. Is that what Sanders et al. are proposing for the United States, to make it more Danish? A big, heavy tax increase on the middle class? Maybe it should be — the Danes have a big welfare state and they pay for it – but no Democrat walking this Earth has the intellectual honesty to say as much.

    Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/425544/somethings-awesome-state-denmark-kevin-d-williamson

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  144. Gerald A – Cruz/West has been my mantra since Cruz became a candidate. Blow me with your establishment hackorama.

    mg (31009b)

  145. The follow up question about Hillary’s! email should have been to both She and Sanders: If it’s no big deal to you then I assume every government employee would be welcome to use their own server, correct? So we no longer need the government system.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  146. Why doesn’t Bernie go to Denmark? I’m sure they’d let him in if he learned the language and applied for admission and waited for his visa, just like almost anywhere.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  147. Russia is where Bernie’s heart is.

    mg (31009b)

  148. Cuba is where Bernie’s heart is.

    FIFY.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  149. Reports are that Cuban boots are now on the ground in Syria. Good job, President Barack-out “Numb Nutz” Obambi!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  150. He honeymooned in Russia, I’m sure he wants to be back. Bernie would look good in one of those funny looking Russian fur hats.
    https://www.winterstyle.com/black-rabbit-full-fur-russian-ushanka-winter-hat-with-hat-badge-p-1916.html

    mg (31009b)

  151. One takeaway from that debate: Lincoln Chafee absolutely reeked of Privilege.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  152. mg, to be exact, he honeymooned in the Soviet Union.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  153. It will always be Russia to me.
    Practice runs to the fallout shelters will do that to you.
    Thanks, Krushchev.

    mg (31009b)

  154. Actually Phillip bump provides some perspective after last weeks squirrel.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  155. Oy… flew in from Burlington in teh coach class.
    Didn’t get to bed last night
    On the way I got a big boil on my ass
    Man I had a dreadful flight
    I’m back in the U.S.S.R.
    You don’t know how lucky you are, oy!
    Back in the U.S.S.R. (Yeah)
    Been away so long I hardly knew the place
    Gee it’s good to be back home
    Leave it till tomorrow to unpack my case
    Honey disconnect the phone
    I’m back in the U.S.S.R.
    You don’t know how lucky you are… oy!
    Back in the U.S.
    Back in the U.S.
    Back in the U.S.S.R.
    Well that Putin guy’s really throwin’ down
    He kick’s Barack’s behind
    And Commie rules make me sing and shout
    your money’s always on my my my my my my my my mind

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  156. In its ideal form, Communism is the workers owning the means of production. In practice, it is the big shots of the Communist regime owning the means of production. Who owns the bulk of the manufacturing capacity of the United States?
    A. The People’s Republic of China
    B. The Communist Party of China
    C. The People’s Liberation Army of China
    D. All of the above

    nk (dbc370)

  157. Gerald A – Cruz/West has been my mantra since Cruz became a candidate. Blow me with your establishment hackorama.

    mg (31009b) — 10/14/2015 @ 1:21 pm

    Putting your obscenity to the side, what did I say that was “establishment hackorama”? Because I said something positive about a proposal supported by McCain and Romney? I guess to not be “establishment” we can never say anything positive about anything they support, or at least we shouldn’t point out that they supported it.

    I’m still waiting for an explanation for how the establishment GOP wouldn’t let our soldiers win. But I’m guessing wanting some logical explanation about your increasingly deranged rants is just more evidence of my being establishment.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  158. well I’ll bite, during the surge, how many of those moderates ran like scalded dogs while Petraeus was doing what had to be done, in the previous four years how many times d oid Rove mime a basenghi, while our operations and our motives in Iraq were being undermined,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  159. narciso I literally have no idea what you’re talking about. Maybe there’s something I don’t know about but you need to provide some specifics.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  160. well I recall my own senator, martinez was one who ran away, you could check murkowski, lugar,
    in that category, right off the top of my head,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  161. What do you mean “ran away”? Did they oppose the surge? McCain was one of the strongest supporters of the surge, and of course it was Bush’s policy. They are “establishment” I believe. Which illustrates the stupidity of this fixation on the word “establishment”.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  162. no not mccain or graham, but most of the rest, they have compounded the error by supporting the Islamist spring,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  163. take this establishment hack, who isn’t even on the committee,

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2015/10/15/Hanna-Benghazi-committee-designed-to-attack-Clinton/9971444900074/

    narciso (ee1f88)

  164. My question was on one particular point narciso. I don’t deny there are idiots like her in the GOP.

    But if you’re using her as an example of the typical establishment Republican, I’m not sure what coherent point you’re making, just as with the surge. Establishment Boehner created and assigned people to the committee in the first place.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  165. they are always to spear the conservatives, and feed them to the dems, we can take Christie doing this to Schundler as another example,

    how did Podlicka get hired, by whom and for what purpose, why is a punk like Hanna, allowed to
    further McCarthy’s malpractice,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  166. Hanna is one of them Meghan’s coward daddy Republican Main Street Partnership whores

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  167. Talk to any soldier, they will tell you political pressure is the only way to change the R.O.E.
    The republicans look the other way. Cowards that they cannot stand up and make an issue out of R.O.E.
    I voted for those two oafs you mentioned, have to take a shower every time I think about it.
    Republicans are obsessed with being occupied by the chamber of commerce, it’s an act of love towards more illegals and lower wages. Pathetic.

    mg (31009b)

  168. What Denmark does have — what all the Nordic countries have — is relatively high taxes on the middle class, which gets double-whammied with income taxes and a value-added tax

    I’ve equated a very liberal society — in terms of both its culture and governance (including politicians) — to a workplace that has a very generous, honor-system policy when it comes to giving away freebies such as snacks, lunch and office supplies or paid vacation time, etc. Such a system will manage to survive (perhaps just barely) if the employees and management are intrinsically stable, trustworthy, self-controlled and responsible. IOW, if they’re not all that typical of the average human out there. But if such a formula is applied to a lot of people who are just the opposite of those traits, too willing to exploit the honor system, too enthusiastic about taking advantage of it, that proverbial light at the end of the proverbial tunnel may be — as the joke goes — an incoming train.

    Simply put, the more liberal or leftwing a society or nation is, the more crucial is the quality of its demographics

    Mark (f713e4)

  169. Or Mark, you could equate it to those of us who have lived in the “fly over” country where we didn’t lock our doors and left the keys in our cars. Would you do that in Detroit, Wash. DC, Balt., Philly? You see those people in fly over are filthy white, Christian, heterosexual conservatives. Very untrustworthy. Oh, and we all own guns. Lots of guns.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  170. JVW, at 72 – to be fair, back when I lived in a 660 sqft apartment in NYC, I could host 25 people, and did on occasion. It was TIGHT, but doable.

    aphrael (4eae3a)

  171. Beldar : O’Malley had the affect of a robot, even when he was clearly (from word choice and word intensity) emotional. I don’t understand it at all; it was quite surreal and off-putting.

    aphrael (4eae3a)

  172. JVW at 78: I *wanted* to like Chaffee, but that explanation of his vote on Glass-Steagall was pathetic and lost him any chance of my support. I mean: he could defend the vote. Or he could forthrightly say, look, I was wrong, and I apologize, and here’s how I’ll do better in the future. But what he did was neither: he strummed at excuses like a teenage boy.

    aphrael (4eae3a)

  173. Beldar – it’s interesting watching your reaction to Sanders, as he doesn’t seem ugly to me; he seems like he’s a good man responding to the ugliness he sees in the world around him.

    He did seem angry and somewhat hectoring, to be sure. But nonetheless, he came across as an idealistic man who is angry because the political world doesn’t live up to his ideals.

    I wonder if this sense of him as ugly (in your view) and not ugly (in mine) is rooted in some difference between conservatism and liberalism.

    I do *not* think O’Malley will get a bump. But I may be more than usually turned off by his affect.

    aphrael (4eae3a)

  174. Beldar, at 110: i took the audience at that moment as cheering at Clinton’s refusal to continue discussing the emails. Sanders had said the American public was tired of talking about them, and while I don’t think he’s right, I think the *democratic base* is bored of the issue and ready for it to go away – and that’s who was in the audience. So Hillary was playing to them *perfectly*: no, i’m done talking about this subject, lets move on.

    [FWIW, I found Chafee’s discussion of himself as scandal-free and highly ethical to be his best moments of the evening.]

    aphrael (4eae3a)

  175. aphrael 174,

    All candidates rehearse so they can speak carefully and avoid gaffes. Unless they are very skilled, that’s probably impacts their ability to seem natural and could even make them seem emotionless or robotic. That authentic, unrehearsed aspect is one reason I think Trump and Carson are doing well in the Republican primary.

    DRJ (521990)

  176. Hey, mg, did you notice all 84 congresscritters who want to bring in Syrian terrorists ar demoncrats? But noooo, they are pro America, love our country, are patriotic ask aphreal. So in the ME they behead Christians, rape and kill women, sell girls as sex slaves and hang homo’s but who do the demoncrats want as “oppressed refugees”? the moslem perpetrators.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  177. Rev – Yes I did, does that mean all republican critters should get a trophy for showing up and doing their job? Now if they would only make a federal case of it. By all having the same talking points going to the media local and national – day in and day out until the liv is informed. Could take decades if you look at how long Issa and Gowdy have taken on Benghazi.

    mg (31009b)

  178. you’re assuming they want to get to the bottom of it, why has Judicial Watch, and Guccifer and Bannon, have been successful while the committee gets scraps,

    narciso (ee1f88)


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