Patterico's Pontifications

9/21/2015

Ben Carson: Sharia Inconsistent with the Constitution

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:50 am



The Hill:

Republican presidential hopeful Ben Carson is standing by his view that a Muslim should not be president of the United States, telling The Hill in an interview on Sunday that whoever takes the White House should be “sworn in on a stack of Bibles, not a Koran.”

Carson ignited a media firestorm in a Sunday morning interview with Chuck Todd on “Meet the Press,” in which he said he “would not advocate that we put a Muslim in charge of this nation.”
“I absolutely would not agree with that,” Carson said.

In an interview with The Hill, Carson opened up about why he believes a Muslim would be unfit to serve as commander in chief.

“I do not believe Sharia is consistent with the Constitution of this country,” Carson said. “Muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life and what you do as a public official, and that’s inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution.”

Carson said that the only exception he’d make would be if the Muslim running for office “publicly rejected all the tenants of Sharia and lived a life consistent with that.”



“Then I wouldn’t have any problem,” he said.

Why are we talking about this, exactly? No Muslim is running for President today. I don’t think we want someone in the White House who advocates the extreme fundamentalist view of sharia that might, for example, justify stoning women for the offense of being a rape victim while married. But what are the chances that such a person would be elected anyway?

328 Responses to “Ben Carson: Sharia Inconsistent with the Constitution”

  1. he’s just a weird dude

    happyfeet (831175)

  2. Why are we talking about this, exactly?

    For the same reason Steph asked Romney about birth control last time around: gotcha questions for Dems to use in the campaign!

    Patricia (5fc097)

  3. Kim Davis feels that her religion is very much a part of her public life and what she does as a public official, and that’s inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution.

    happyfeet (831175)

  4. Dr. Carson is still in that circle of wannabe politicians where any publicity is good publicity.

    nk (dbc370)

  5. … because the Media is hysterically stupid and looking to vilify all Republicans..

    #3 And she went to jail. Unlike Muslims Cab Drivers in Cleveland and Minneapolis. Or for that matter the Leftist Cult which refuses to enforce Laws it does not like.

    Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  6. Anyone attempting to establish religion would be inconsistent with the Constitution.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  7. We’re talking about this because republicans are ignorant bigots and must be mocked so the puritanical left can maintain control and to keep hope alive for the Bush v Clinton rematch.

    crazy (cde091)

  8. For a long time Americans thought Catholicism was inconsistent with the Constitution.

    For a long time Americans thought the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints were inconsistent with the Constitution.

    Tennessee, if I remember correctly, thought being a minister or priest was inconsistent with holding public office.

    Why were these attitudes (presumably) wrong (e.g., Kennedy, Romney, and Huckabee), but Carson’s is not?

    G Green (381030)

  9. This aspect of sharia law is probably news to the Left. They generally blame the poverty and violence that is endemic in muslim lands (those lacking exploitable natural resources) upon the absence of daycare, public health services, and unemployment insurance. The Left doesn’t understand that this is a feature, not a bug, of the system of governance left to the world by Mohammed. Good for Dr. Carson, he’s attempting to educate these fools. The Army, in recognition of the realities of the muslim “religion”, has instructed the troops in Afghanistan to pretend not to notice the abuse of boys by our allies. So reality is taking hold at some level even within this administration.

    bobathome (a52abe)

  10. #8 …. And if a person running for President said the Pope’s words were more important than the Constitution he/she would be unfit to serve.

    So not sure the reasoning makes any sense since no Catholic or Mormon is running around saying their “teachings” are what needs to be LAW.

    Muslims believe Sharia should be Law.

    SMH.

    Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  11. #10 Many Muslims believe Sharia should be law ….. not all thankfully

    Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  12. There are plenty of Evangelical Christians running around who say their beliefs should be law. Do we exclude them?

    Heck, think about it: everyone has beliefs. Is having beliefs a disqualifying characteristic?

    G Green (381030)

  13. The difference is Islam is their form of government. The iron fisted dictator is also the Prophet, richest man, the only conduit to the ear of Allah, the groom of every wedding and corpse at every funeral.
    They name baby bomb throwers in training after him.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  14. GG, muslims believe that your property and even your children (e.g., janissaries) are theirs on demand, assuming of course, that the government is based on sharia and you are not muslim. Read a little history of the middle east in recent times. It’s not uplifting. But you might learn something. Consider, for example, the history of Kosovo and Albania in the last 104 years. You might be surprised to learn that the Ottoman Empire wasn’t expelled from that region until 1912. These places continue to be hell holes for a reason.

    Evangelical Christians are not, and will not, be a problem. We’ve worked our way out from under their blue laws over the last century, and I am unaware of any political activity to reinstate them. It is silly to compare laws that prohibit mowing your lawn on Sunday with sharia.

    I’m sure you did well in your historical reconstruction classes. Continue learning, but build on something. A solid foundation of facts relating to things as they were then would be a good starting point. Don’t overlook the state of ignorance that prevailed in matters scientific and medical even into this century.

    bobathome (a52abe)

  15. The Constitution says “no religious test”. It also says that the only qualifications for President are natural born citizen and at least thirty-five years old. But I don’t follow the Constitution when I vote. I discriminate in picking the candidate any way I please. Those are two very different things. For example, I won’t vote for Carson because he has a beard and wears glasses. And the country needs a neurosurgeon in the White House like it needs a hole in the head.

    nk (dbc370)

  16. Kim Davis feels that her religion is very much a part of her public life and what she does as a public official, and that’s inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution.

    happyfeet (831175) — 9/21/2015 @ 8:06 am

    There you go again, displaying an ignorance of history. When our constitution was created there were laws that put homosexuals in jail. They were still on the books when the Supreme Court ruled on Lawrence v Texas on June 26, 2003. The principals of the United States said that homosexuals should go to jail for over 200 years. Not my opinion, just history.

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  17. “this century” being the 20th century. Although we still have plenty to learn.

    bobathome (a52abe)

  18. I wish people would quit calling Sharia extremist. It is not. It fits perfectly with the Quran. And over 1 billion people proclaim the Quran to be the real deal. That means it is mainstream, not extreme. As such, the mainstream Mohammedan view is inconsistent with Liberty and inconsistent with the Constitution.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  19. Consider the source of the question. Forget it, Jake… it’s Toddlertown…

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55)

  20. 3. Kim Davis feels that her religion is very much a part of her public life and what she does as a public official, and that’s inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution.

    happyfeet (831175) — 9/21/2015 @ 8:06 am

    We have a First Amendment in order to tell fascists like you that you are wrong. The first words of the first amendment to the Bill of Rights:

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…

    Those are OUR principles, happyfascist. They’re not yours. I get that. It is precisely because they are not, and that the founders new vile creatures like you existed and would continue to exist, that they wrote things down. So that when liars like you came along pretending to talk about “our principals” we could refer to the written record and say, “No, those are not our principals.”

    Madison explained why we would have no state religion, and the free exercise of religion. It would be so each of us could do what we believed to be right in the eyes of God, and only we could impose that duty upon ourselves.

    So what Kim Davis did is entirely in keeping with our principles and our Constitution. The creed you would impose on us, happyfascist, on the other hand is not. As others in addition have noticed, your fascist project is essentially the establishment of a state religion, happyfascist.

    You and your ilk just avoid certain words. Your ultimate authority is not called god, for instance. Your religious law givers aren’t called priests but judges. But you have a creed you would impose on us, whether you admit it or not. A creed being a set of beliefs held by a religious community. And that, happyfascist, is against our principles and Constitution.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  21. That was very well said, Steve57.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  22. 19. Consider the source of the question. Forget it, Jake… it’s Toddlertown…

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55) — 9/21/2015 @ 10:09 am

    I see what you did there, you clever old fox.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  23. So that when liars like you came along pretending to talk about “our principals” we could refer to the written record and say, “No, those are not our principals.”

    don’t be a big sillyhead Mr. 57 my comment about our principals is just taking Mr. Dr. Ben Carson’s sentence and substituting poochie’s name for muslims

    “Muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life and what you do as a public official, and that’s inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution.”

    happyfeet (831175)

  24. *principles*

    avocado *smoothie*

    *grubhub*

    happyfeet (831175)

  25. This is one area where I disagree with Bush’s war in Iraq. One of the ideas of rebuilding Iraq was to introduce Democracy so that other Islamic states would see it, become jealous and demand Democracy in their own countries. A reverse Domino Theory if you will. The problem is that Islam is contradictory to Democracy, so you can have one or the other, not both.

    If Islam Democracy, then the US Presidency a Muslim.

    CrustyB (69f730)

  26. The Constitution specifies that there shall be no religious test to hold any office in the government, something I absolutely support. But the voters have the right to take their decisions on any point they wish, and if they believe that a Muslim shouldn’t be President, and vote accordingly, that’s their decisions.

    The left, of course, absolutely support voting on identity: they supported people voting for Barack Hussein Obama because he is (half) black, and they support voting for Hillary Clinton because he (supposedly) has a vagina. It’s just that they think it would be very, very wrong for people to have voted against Mr Obama because he is (half) black or voting against Mrs Clinton because she is (purportedly) a woman.

    Not sure how they squared those two things during the 2008 primaries . . . .

    The Constitutionalist Dana (f6a568)

  27. Happyfascist is an example of the problem, and until more people realize that, the solution will never be implemented.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  28. Islam is unique, and therefore Sharia is unique, in that it imposes obligations on non-adherents.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

    I’m not interested in Buddhism or Jainism because those religions don’t teach their adherents what they must do to and with me. Islam does.

    Well, I have to walk that one slightly back. I’m not as interested, because I expect to survive Buddhism and Jainism.

    I realize that it’s popular in non-religious circles to lump all religions together. Bernie Sanders was at Liberty University pontificating about how all the major religions espouse the golden rule.

    Only in the mind of a secular socialist. Nobody who takes religion seriously could say that. Apparently the students at Liberty University were too polite to make animal sounds.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  29. “Islam is unique, and therefore Sharia is unique, in that it imposes obligations on non-adherents.”

    The blue laws applied universally.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  30. True but baathism isn’t the answer neither was nasserism.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  31. happytoejam wrote:

    Muslims feel that their religion is very much a part of your public life and what you do as a public official, and that’s inconsistent with our principles and our Constitution.

    Almost every political candidate, at every level of government, proudly displays on his campaign literature pictures of his family, with an opposite-sex spouse, so that you know he is a normal heterosexual, and tells you of what church he is a member, so that you’ll know that, too, because they expect these things to make a difference, at least on the margins. They also know that if they don’t do these things, and their opponents do, that marginal difference might just tip the election against them.

    Politicians can’t combitch when people play the games they are being asked to play.

    The very realistic Dana (f6a568)

  32. If you knew what you are trying to talk about, jmann, you’d know the blue laws and Sharia aren’t remotely comparable.

    As per usual, you don’t know what you are talking about.

    Seriously? The blue laws that said liquor stores had to close on Sunday also said non-Christians had to feed and lodge Christians at their own expense?

    More to the point, if I were a GOP candidate I’d answer every question about Sharia with, “You really don’t want to talk about Hillary!’s crimes, do you?”

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  33. Would this also mean that a Christian who felt that the Bible should override laws and guide courts should be excluded from office? I am waiting for Democrat candidates to be asked that question. Holding my breath, I am.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  34. Muslims should be allowed to enter Churches (for shelter) in any time, both in day and night.

    Name the comparable blue law, jmann.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  35. Prohibition against raising a pig next to a Muslims neighbor.

    My HOA won’t let me raise a pig, but it’s not for religious reasons.

    Name the comparable blue law, jmann.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  36. Prohibition against any possession of weapons.

    Actually, I know the answer to this one.

    Jim Crow laws were implemented to disarm blacks.

    Now those same Jim Crow laws are part and parcel of the Democratic party platform.

    Excuse me. What do I mean by “now?” They’ve been part of the Democratic party platform since reconstruction.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  37. Sharia is inconsistent with civilization.

    C. S. P. Schofield (a25953)

  38. The worship places of non-Muslims must be lower in elevation than the lowest mosque in town.

    Name the comparable blue law, jmann.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  39. “Seriously? The blue laws that said liquor stores had to close on Sunday also said non-Christians had to feed and lodge Christians at their own expense?”

    That was slavery, not the blue laws.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  40. #20… well said, Steve. Clear, forthright and should be easy to understand. Only the willfully ignorant would protest.

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55)

  41. happytoejam wrote

    i did NOT write that good grief am I the only one around here who reads the posts

    reading is just so fundamental that’s how I found out about soursop smoothies!

    muy delicioso they are i can’t believe I’ve never had one before

    happyfeet (831175)

  42. Steve I think perhaps you don’t understand the point is that “sharia” is not unique in that it applies to non-believers. Plenty of religious doctrine imposes on non-believers when it becomes law.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  43. 37. Sharia is inconsistent with civilization.
    C. S. P. Schofield (a25953) — 9/21/2015 @ 11:07 am

    S

    No, it’s not.

    On the Sunni side we are talking the Hanbali, Hanafiyyah, Shafiyyah, and the
    Maliki schools. On the Shia side, Jafari’i.

    Yeah, there used to be dozens. And there are minor schools extant. Not all Shia Muslims are twelvers, for instance.

    But to attempt to compare a few blue laws to all this is to advertise your ignorance.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  44. jmann, you have no idea what you are talking about. And the unfortunate fact is you would apply your ignorance as if it were fact.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  45. But what are the chances that such a person would be elected anyway?

    Just keep letting the in and you’ll find out. To your dismay and to the ultimate death of everything you love. It’s what moslems do, now and historically.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  46. 40. …Only the willfully ignorant would protest.

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55) — 9/21/2015 @ 11:07 am

    Thankfully there are none of those around.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  47. It seems from your posts like you think I’m saying there are comparable blue laws to particular edicts in Sharia.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  48. jmann wrote:

    Steve I think perhaps you don’t understand the point is that “sharia” is not unique in that it applies to non-believers. Plenty of religious doctrine imposes on non-believers when it becomes law.

    Oh, that’s certainly true: it was certainly Christians who passed the laws against public nudity. There are a whole host of laws, some of them very recent in origin, which reflect our society’s moral views; is there not a moral view behind those laws which tell us that there are certain things which are perfectly legal to do for free — copulate or donate an organ (pun very much intended) — that we have made illegal to do for money?

    The very Catholic Dana (f6a568)

  49. I think Steve wouldn’t be satisfied by something merely “moral.” I tried to pick something more specifically religious like the enforcement of a particular day for the Sabbath.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  50. Jmann, it seems from your posts you are Perry, PIATOR, imadimwit, blubonnet, et al.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  51. Jmann, in order to find a law that enforces the Sabbath, you would have to understand what following the Sabbath actually entails. Since you do not understand, in the least, you only look more foolish to those of us who actually do understand.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  52. The proof is already in the pudding. Go compare Islamic Countries to Christian ones.

    No one is breaking down doors to go to Muslim Countries.

    The rest is Academic Nonsense and realities are obvious.

    Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  53. #52 I would not want any POTUS who thinks in any way shape of form that Islam would be embedded in our laws and cultures and institutions.

    Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  54. Show me a US law that declared it illegal to cook your own food on a certain day of the week.
    Show me a US law that declared it illegal to draw water on a certain day of the week.
    Show me a US law that declared it illegal to buy or sell gasoline (or, in my case, diesel fuel (which I have bought on December 25)) on a certain day of the week.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  55. What part is Shari law is compatible with womens rights.
    What part of Shari law is compatible with democracy
    What part of chamberlins capitulation at munich saved the world from war
    What part of the Iran capitulation will save us from war

    do liberals lack any sense of reality

    Joe from Texas (debac0)

  56. “Show me a US law that declared it illegal to buy or sell gasoline (or, in my case, diesel fuel (which I have bought on December 25)) on a certain day of the week.”

    Why gasoline and not something like booze or jeans?

    jmann (cfaec1)

  57. Show me a US law that declared it illegal to buy jeans on a certain day of the week.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  58. Because you don’t know what Sabbath laws are, you claim there were laws declaring a Sabbath. There were not.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  59. “What part is Shari law is compatible with womens rights.”

    The would be teh Shari Lewis Law, aka “Lambchop Clause”

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55)

  60. jmann, point me to just one Muslim majority country where non-Muslims are by law equal in status to Muslims.

    Because Sharia says they are not.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  61. If you can buy or sell something, it is not a Sabbath law.
    If you can cook your own food for you to eat, it is not a Sabbath law.
    If you can get water from your well, plow a field, cut your grass, eat at a restaurant, drive a vehicle, it is not a Sabbath law.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  62. Oh I get it you think when religious busybodies were passing laws about things you couldn’t do on the Sabbath then it’s not really a “Sabbath law.”

    jmann (cfaec1)

  63. You again prove you don’t know the Sabbath laws. It’s typical of anti-theists: proclaim they know more about the Messiah than those who have actually studied and worship the Messiah.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  64. 59. “What part is Shari law is compatible with womens rights.”

    The would be teh Shari Lewis Law, aka “Lambchop Clause”

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55) — 9/21/2015 @ 11:33 am

    I don’t know if you’re interested, coronello, but Muslims consistently pull a bait-and-switch when it comes to women’s rights. They’ll point out that Muhammad’s first wife Khadijah was a wealthy merchant. As if that had something to do with Islam. She was Muhammad’s wealthy first wife before Muhammad had his supposed first revelation. All that proves is that in pagan pre-Islamic Arabia a woman could be wealthy.

    The Islamic calendar doesn’t begin until Muhammad’s Hijrah to Madinah, by which time Khadijah was well and truly dead. None of Muhammad’s subsequent wives, including his favorite the child bride Aisha, had it so good.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  65. jmann’s ignorance is self-referential … he’s wrapped himself in it so tightly the truth can’t penetrate. He may find that high buildings, deep water, Alaskan winters, and arid deserts are existential threats since they haven’t been considered in the fabrication of the myths that constitute what he calls knowledge.

    By the way, did you see that 20 “scientists” have petitioned the administration asking that all AGW “deniers” be prosecuted under RICO statutes? Mark Steyn has it here. I was disappointed to see that the U. W. harbors two of these thugs. The GW community is beginning to assume the character of a slightly liberalized sharia.

    bobathome (a52abe)

  66. “You again prove you don’t know the Sabbath laws. It’s typical of anti-theists: proclaim they know more about the Messiah than those who have actually studied and worship the Messiah.”

    It’s like the “No True Scotsman” version of Sharia.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  67. No, you don’t get it. Can you answer the question? Do you remember the question?

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  68. jmann commits the logical fallacy of ambiguity. Again and again and again.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  69. “Oh I get it you think…”

    No, Jmann, we think (and know) that you do not know of what you speak.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  70. Jmann, explain the religious rule regarding the following of the Sabbath. Start from there, since that is definitionally part of everything else you are trying to declare. Until you can honestly do that, you have no honesty in regard to any legal matter surrounding it.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  71. Here comes the cut-n-paste.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  72. Nah, felipe, I don’t think he will take my requirement seriously. He’ll just pontificate about something else.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  73. Western law has its foundation from the Judeo-Christian ethic. Personally I like some of our “religious” law, like don’t commit murder, do not steal, do not bear false witness, do not rape, …

    Now Islamic law tells you not to lie to another Muslim, but it’s okay to lie to a non-Muslim. Islamic law tells the Muslim to murder Jews, if a Muslim meets a non-Muslim they are to tell them to convert to Islam, if they don’t they must pay a tribute (stealing), if they still refuse, murder them.

    In the bible women were judges, heads of industry, lthey ead defensive wars against attackers, … In Islam a woman doesn’t have the same rights as men. In Islam a woman who is raped is punished, not the man.

    Our constitution was created by many men of faith, a bunch who went to seminary.

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  74. if we have to choose between a sharia muslim or a bush I’m a write in Mr. The Donald I think

    but for sure not Mr. Dr. Ben Carson cause of he’s too weird

    happyfeet (831175)

  75. I don’t know what tripped this particular trigger, but I am wired to tell of a particular story. It is not a memory as it is not mine.

    In 1942 the US Navy conducted a series of brawls with the Imperial Japanese Navy. Most of these fights happened at night, and nobody really knew what the h3ll had just happened. It was pretty much a fight across a dinner table in the dark, and the only thing you saw was what was lit up by the muzzle flash of your shot gun. There are three dead sailors off Guadalcanal for every dead infantryman on Guadalcanal.

    One morning they were cleaning up the mess in Iron Bottom Sound and stream of small craft was coming out of Guadalcanal and Tulagi picking up those the could. They were pulling alongside whatever functional destroyers and cruisers they could find to deliver the wounded to competent medical care.

    One small craft pulled up next to an American cruiser and everyone stared in amazement. It was skippered by a Japanese Bos’n’s mate whose ship had been sunk. And he took it upon himself to rescue survivors from both sides. And he had the balls to pull up to an enemy ship and ask for rags so he clean his charges; Japanese, American, and Australian, up.

    I would have given that man a medal.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  76. Jmann, explain the religious rule regarding the following of the Sabbath. Start from there, since that is definitionally part of everything else you are trying to declare. Until you can honestly do that, you have no honesty in regard to any legal matter surrounding it.
    Actually it is an irrelevant point. That is, along with much else, halacha, Jewish law, and Israel enforces some of those rules. But Christianity threw over the Sabbath almost from the very beginning, and the Lord’s Day never had specific rules of that sort. The concept behind halacha/sharia does not exist in Christianity: that there is a God approved way of doing everything, from tying your shoes to making war.

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  77. here is about the teefs the democrats have in they mouf

    it says Bernie lost one of his front teeth somehow and had to get a bridge

    happyfeet (831175)

  78. Islam says it is a sin to not live under Sharia law. Ben Carson is right that Sharia law is inconsistent with the constitution.

    http://louderwithcrowder.com/5-reasons-the-quran-can-never-coexist-with-the-constitution-ever/

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  79. You see, kishnevi, you and I understand that. So do most of the people commenting here. But Jmann, who understands very little about anything religious, has tried to make the point about the Sabbath, and has failed miserably, due to his complete lack of understanding of the Sabbath. And my requirement goes directly to that point: that he understands nothing as it relates to the Sabbath (which he brought up, by the way).

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  80. “Jmann, explain the religious rule regarding the following of the Sabbath. Start from there, since that is definitionally part of everything else you are trying to declare. Until you can honestly do that, you have no honesty in regard to any legal matter surrounding it.”

    So let’s clear this up. You think that, like, when MA has laws restricting business on Sundays, these aren’t “sabbath laws.” I see. No True Scotsman would pass a law like that.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  81. sharia is a fundie thing

    the koran though is definitely not incompatible with democracy we know this cause of there’s so many good muslims what understand democracy just like you and me

    not all muslims are fundies just like how there’s lots and lots of christians what aren’t fundies

    fundies of any stripe have no business in the white house duh

    this is obvious to anyone willing to do the analysis

    happyfeet (831175)

  82. Here comes the cut-n-paste.
    felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/21/2015 @ 11:58 am

    Nah, felipe, I don’t think he will take my requirement seriously. He’ll just pontificate about something else.
    John Hitchcock (e1806a) — 9/21/2015 @ 12:00 pm

    So let’s clear this up. You think that, like, when MA has laws restricting business on Sundays, these aren’t “sabbath laws.” I see. No True Scotsman would pass a law like that.
    jmann (cfaec1) — 9/21/2015 @ 12:41 pm

    Sorry, felipe, I was right and you were mistaken.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  83. The Constitution is negotiable. We violated the First Amendment with the State-establishment of a pro-choice cult. We routinely violate civil rights with excessive (i.e. unassimilated) and illegal immigration. We directed arbitrary institutional discrimination with the vote for congruence (e.g. “=”). We excised the second party, “Posterity”, under the right of privacy, thereby normalizing an unprecedented violation of human rights. It seems that it is, in fact, The Constitution that is inconsistent with the “law of the land”.

    n.n (30a50e)

  84. This is a learning opportunity for Republicans to have explained to them that there can be no religious test for holding office. It takes a gaffe like this for people to learn the basics, so it’s good we have elections every few years. Even though it’s written in the Constitution, they keep inserting THEIR religion into public policy, such as marriage non-equality or abortion bans. At the same time, they denigrate Islam using a brush so broad it assumes every practicing muslim agrees with stoning women to death.

    What should be spelled out for them – very slowly – is that LAWS are very specific, but PREJUDICE is very vague. Ben Carson is smart enough to know that Muslims run the gamut from fundamentalist extremist to casual, non-practicing gentry. But instead of singling out just those muslims that advocate violence, he’ll go with the catch-all that includes people that advocate peace and tolerance, tarring them with the logic seen on the tailgates of many a pickup truck “I learned everything I need to know about Islam from 9-11″.

    The reason Carson does it is because the voters he wants to appeal to are the remaining Archie Bunker types in the country that couldn’t handle a comparison of the violent, backwards rhetoric in both the Koran and the Bible.

    Carson knows that if we direct racism and xenophobia towards Muslims, Republicans are off the hook for hating blacks so broadly for so long. He’s taking their support, as the messenger that it’s okay to judge people by the God they worship instead of the content of their character. And all the Republicans who say Obama got the black voter just because he’s black won’t admit Carson is polling so well because he’s black, the perfect candidate to counter a female or Jew running on the other side.

    Deaf Anime Fan (66ea1e)

  85. Let’s clear this up. Jmann doesn’t want the terms he’s using as a club to be defined, so he can maliciously and falsely use them against people he doesn’t like. Such as a 25th generation Bangladeshi is no true Scotsman.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  86. NICELY SAID MR. DEAF GUY

    happyfeet (831175)

  87. Pandering both sides of many issues makes for an early exit Mr. Walker.
    Cheers

    mg (31009b)

  88. #81, can this fool help himself or no?

    Guessing no.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  89. 84. Castigates conservatives for bigotry with an outpouring of bigotry that dwarfs the bigotry he claims he is attacking.

    My ironymeter just exploded. May be a few days before I find a replacement…have to contact the vendor to see if the warranty covers abnormal wear and tear.

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  90. Kishnevi, not only did he pile on the bigotry, but he filled his rant with lies.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  91. walker couldn’t scale poor lil picklehead

    happyfeet (831175)

  92. Read the effin’ books.

    According to the New Testament Christ was God in the flesh, He was born of the virgin Mary, became man, was resurrected from the dead on the third day in fulfillment of the Scripture for the forgiveness of our sins, and entered into Heaven.

    According to he Koran, it was all something else.

    They can’t both be true.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  93. Strange, congruence (i.e. “=”) is not marriage equality. It is constructed on a pro-choice principle that [re-]established selective or unprincipled exclusion. Proponents of homosexual transgendered marriages are still trying to defend institutional discrimination of other orientations, including those not based on sexual congress. The Rainbow flag is notably lackluster.

    Elective abortion is indiscriminate, premeditated killing of [wholly] innocent human life in a captive environment. The wholesale killing of over one million viable human lives annually in America alone represents an unprecedented violation of human rights. The revelation of torture, harvesting, and trafficking only highlights the degenerate nature of its advocates and activists.

    Only people who place their faith in spontaneous conception or reject the intrinsic (i.e. exceptional) value of human life can sincerely adopt a pro-choice religious/moral philosophy.

    That said, separation of Church (i.e. organized religion/morality) and State is a myth.

    n.n (30a50e)

  94. Deaf guy, my concern is not with the rhetoric in either the Bible or the Koran. My concern is what the established religious institutions make of that language today, and how that translates into action. The muslims have been slaughtering wherever they could in hope of garnering slaves and tribute from the survivors since the establishment of their “religion”, and it hasn’t improved since founding of our Republic. Nothing has changed for muslims in our life time except that nuclear weapons give the more enthusiastic muslims hope of bringing and end to our temporal world.

    The Republicans that hate Blacks managed to free them in 1865; the opposition party, known then and today as the Democrats, instituted Jim Crow laws throughout the South as the Republican Carpetbaggers were sent packing in the 1870s; and although a minority in Congress in the 60s, Republican votes allowed passage of the civil rights legislation that Democrats are so proud of. Those southern Governors who defied the Federal governments demand for integration of their school systems were uniformly Democrats.

    I suppose we should thank you for sharing your knowledge of the world as presently taught in government schools. Now it’s time for you to start reading some real history and reflect on how we managed to make such a mess of things, beginning with JFK’s initiative in Vietnam, and LBJ’s War on Poverty.

    bobathome (a52abe)

  95. John Hitchcock (e1806a) — 9/21/2015 @ 12:46 pm

    Yep! When you are right, John, you are right! Good call.

    felipe (56556d)

  96. It is interesting that happyfascist chose to cheerlead a very clear bigot who lies a lot.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  97. “Read the effin’ books.”

    Goyim gone wild

    jmann (cfaec1)

  98. Imdw is always so special.

    JD (34f761)

  99. John Hitchcock – I don’t know anything about the *religious* requirements regarding the sabbath, in either Judaism or Christianity.

    But I *do* know, as a citizen of the United States, that there are parts of the country where what I (as a nonbeliever) can do on Sunday are restricted *by secular law*, which was adopted in part as a result of political pressure to import into secular law the requirements of religious law.

    Surely I can object to that without knowing the details of the requirements of religious law. :)

    aphrael (9338bc)

  100. the deaf guy is the only one really addressing the question

    Why are we talking about this, exactly?

    Mr. Dr. Ben wanted to put it out there super clear that he don’t hold no truck with no muslim president, which is a pretty gosh darn random way to use valuable tv time Mr. Hitchcock

    granted, Dr. Ben is kind of a fruit loop

    but Mr. deaf guy’s hypothesis is still the most plausible one presented in the thread so far

    but right now i have a sad about Mr. Governor Walker

    not a sharp stabbing knife in the gut sad just a wistful melancholy one

    he really let me down

    he really let ALL of us down

    but worst of all he let himself down

    happyfeet (831175)

  101. aphrael (9338bc) — 9/21/2015 @ 1:57 pm

    You certainly can; I know I do!

    felipe (56556d)

  102. You cannot honestly call it a Sabbath law if you do not know what the Sabbath law is. And if you do know what the Sabbath law is, you wouldn’t even begin to consider it Sabbath law.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  103. I still can’t tell if John understood the “No True Scotsman” reference.

    jmann (cfaec1)

  104. That’s because your brain is pickled.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  105. I disagree.

    On some level, all I need to know is whether the people who originally advocated for such laws believed them to be “Sabbath laws”. It seems fairly well established, as a matter of historical record, that seventeenth century New England’s prohibitions on commercial and recreational activities on Sunday were believed *by the people of the time* to have been enacted in furtherence of religious law – just as the same can be said for the equivalent laws passed by the Long Parliament during the English Civil War.

    I am not competent to comment on whether the people who adopted such laws were *right* that they were required to do so by their religion – all I can do is note that they appear to have believed it.

    aphrael (9338bc)

  106. Laws are enacted by a legislature representing the will of the people, or at least that is more or less how it is supposed to work, so the law in any locale is subject to the attitudes of the local populace.
    If the majority of people in a certain town want to close all bars on Sunday, for whatever reason, I suppose they could make zoning laws to say so, unless some some other authority superseded.

    It should be obvious that anyone who cannot honestly take the oath to uphold the Constitution should not be allowed to become president,
    but we already did that at least once with the current president who is ideologically at odds with much of it and has refused to uphold the laws of the land.

    Islam as practiced in much of the world results in a theocracy, if not direct rule by clerics, the “secular government” rules consistently with the clerics, e.g. Saudi Arabia.

    A Venn diagram should make it obvious.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  107. I can’t buy beer in a grocery store in PA like I can in Ohio. Whether it is because of some religious principle or not is of no consequence.

    I certainly would object if somebody tried to pass a law that said a store must be open on saturdays, as that is potentially compelling a person to do something against their will,
    but if a community can pass laws governing business licenses, etc., it will do so in accordance to the whims of the local jurisdiction.

    Contrary to the old protest,morality is indeed legislated all of the time, it just depends on whose morality it is and whether it is subject to already agreed upon “ground rules”,i.e., a constitution.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  108. Show me a US law that declared it illegal to draw water on a certain day of the week.

    I cannot buy wiskey or a car in Minnesota on a Sunday.

    G Green (8a621c)

  109. G Green, you quoted me asking someone to show me one law, and you pointedly chose not to do so in your rejoinder. You lose.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  110. Yes, I didn’t show you one law. Rather, I showed you multiple laws, across multiple states, across multiple time periods where the line between the religious and the public (profane and sacred) was, at best, blurred.

    By the way, why don’t Sundays count for pocket vetos? What’s so special about Sunday?

    If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.

    G Green (8a621c)

  111. This nonsense is precious.

    JD (3b5483)

  112. I take it there’s a fellow named Green who is green with envy.

    Yes, I didn’t cite by chapter and verse anything like a Sharia law. Because there is none.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  113. So I wasn’t wrong. GGreen is unable to see the difference between sharia law, which requires stoning and beheading for any number of things, with our blue laws, which in most places are historical artifacts not enforced by the police (mowing your lawn on Sunday, for example.)

    This conversation is pointless. The ability to discriminate intelligently is something that we should strive to achieve. It should be assumed that anything we do is imperfect. The question is whether it is good enough for the time being, and will it lead to a better future. This in turn requires a sense of proportion, and a point of reference that includes historical facts.

    We’ve been over this so many times. It gets back to Sowell’s constrained and unconstrained man. The Utopian will find fault with anything that he pleases because he pretends we would all be perfect, but for a lack of unemployment benefits, or a childcare center, or same sex marriage, or whatever cause has captured his fancy. Curiously, these same Utopians are blind when looking over their left shoulder. And worse yet, history has shown that societies that fall prey to their whimsical beliefs crash and burn, witness Venezuela.

    bobathome (a52abe)

  114. So effin’ precious, JD, like the goddamm books.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  115. I can not prove Washington said, “Shift your fat @$$, Henry, you’re going to swamp the goddamm boat” when crossing the Delaware.

    But it’s a nice thought, and I traffic in it.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  116. By the way, why don’t Sundays count for pocket vetos? What’s so special about Sunday?

    G Green (8a621c)

  117. Good Allah, it is like you are trying to miss the point.

    JD (3b5483)

  118. Islam is stealth Satanism, “the Abomination causing Desolation”.

    Still won’t be supporting Carson, his stances are ad hoc.

    DNF (36ae6c)

  119. sharia “law” is inconsistent with civilization and human freedom.

    redc1c4 (15039b)

  120. Listen, at various times in American history Catholics, Jews, homosexuals, Communists, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, Atheists, etc…, have been blacklisted as “UnAmerican”, having beliefs and convictions antithetical to the U.S. Constitution. Those were stupid. This moment, applying this so-called principle to Muslims, is stupid too.

    G Green (8a621c)

  121. The Ku Klux Klan thought that Catholicism was inconsistent with democracy and loyalty to America.

    G Green (8a621c)

  122. ‘dialing to eleven’ JD,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  123. Dialing it up to eleventy, narcisco.

    JD (3b5483)

  124. I am curious as to what about Sharia law is consistent with our founding principles. Maybe Imdw and its new hyperventilating friend could point out the similarities.

    JD (3b5483)

  125. Sunday closing laws are a holdover from establishmentarianism in the common law. Christian establishmentarianism upheld by the British rulers. Catholic then Protestant (Anglicans are Protestants). Nothing Judeo about them; otherwise they’d be Saturday closing laws. Who came up with “Judeo-Christian”, anyway? I first heard it in the ’80s; it wasn’t Reagan but it was somebody inn his circle. Bill Bennett? Newt Gingrich? Because it makes just as much sense to say Judeo-Muslim.

    nk (dbc370)

  126. got a veto in my pocket
    finger in teh socket
    no way fo’ you to stop it
    got to rock it

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55)

  127. Bored with Green.

    Edwin Price Ramsey was interesting, on the other hand.

    http://edwinpriceramsey.com/

    He led the last horse cavalry charge in US Army history.

    http://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/%E2%80%9Ccharge%E2%80%9D-philippine-scouts-and-the-last-horse-cavalry-charge-of-the-u-s-army/

    “Lt. Ramsey in leading his platoon into the battle fought like a hungry tiger. . . .”

    If you’re going to fight, fight like a hungry tiger.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  128. christianity is the fullfillment of the covenant, Islam is some other sect altogether,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  129. Yuz cain’t buy whiskey if yuz cain’t spell it, Green.

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55)

  130. Someday Chuck Yeager is going to die.

    I honestly don’t know what I’m going to do then. I’ve never lived in a world without Chuck Yeager.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  131. I am curious as to what about Torah Law is consistent with our founding principles.

    What religions are consistent with our founding principles?

    Ours is a government founded on the effective truth, not God’s truth:

    Ambition must be made to counteract ambition. The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place. It may be a reflection on human nature, that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.

    G Green (8a621c)

  132. You are special, greenie

    JD (3b5483)

  133. that anecdote in the second chapter of the right stuff, where Wolfe gives that quick vignette about the man,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  134. Bantering with one who is either so willfully ignorant or so young and dumb he must have a PhD in some leftist field is folly. Any person living in our republic with the current ability on line to explore islam who does not see it’s threat to humanity should be shunned. Some people are just too dumb bother with. He either can read the Koran and realize the extent of a religion/form of government that has spent 1200 years trying to subjugate, sometimes successfully, every other faith on earth or not. Hopefully he’ll be one of the first slaughtered so we can get rid of those who would give aid to our enemies.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  135. christianity presumes men are fallen, the separation of powers implies that, in the notion that no one faction can hold power,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  136. Which part of Leviticus is consistent with founding principles? Which part of the Book of Revelations is consistent with founding principles?

    G Green (8a621c)

  137. the nature of this squirrel,

    http://www.investigativeproject.org/profile/113/nihad-awad

    narciso (ee1f88)

  138. Narciso,

    What about a Nazarene who has undergone entire sanctification?

    G Green (8a621c)

  139. So, you are trying to miss the point. Intentionally. Gotcha.

    JD (3b5483)

  140. squirrel, chipmunk, whatever, take keith ellison please,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  141. In any event, the issue has reached the Supreme Court which ruled that no matter its origins, it’s now a workers’ rights type secular custom.

    nk (dbc370)

  142. I mention LT Ramsey’s horse cavalry charge as that wasn’t the last time US forces charged the enemy. Of course, I’m including the Navy. Destroyers charged the Hiei during the 1942 Naval Battle of Guadalcanal. They didn’t kill her. They crippled her, and Marine Dauntlesses finished her off the next day because the lone wolf was limping too badly to escape.

    Navy light forces charged Japanese heavies at Leyte.

    I only bring this up because, I think there were some Jews involved. Who apparently weren’t crippled by the blue laws.

    How does this happen?

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  143. http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3621/t9pn.jpg

    Charge of the Philippine scouts.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  144. 131. Mr. 57 prolly knows this issue cold but the Quran is baldly derivative from the Syrian Talmud ca. 300 AD.

    If the Quran originated with Zayed from the mouth of PBUH reciting the words authored on high a source may have been a nestorian uncle of Kadijah.

    It therefore is a bastard of a number of currents including Arabic lore and Indian polytheism.

    DNF (36ae6c)

  145. Islam is, qua ideology, no special threat to humanity.

    G Green (8a621c)

  146. http://www.wallpaperup.com/uploads/wallpapers/2013/06/10/100472/2d4b0c425eaf7de897f0f9e90ce6be9e.jpg

    The USS Laffey, doing the unspeakable to the superstructure of the Imperial Japanese Naval Ship Hiei.

    Everything a destroyer could do to a battleship, she was doing.

    I think Jews were involved. Blue laws and all.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  147. G Green is not in line to win any intellectual awards or any knowledge-based awards (which are separate things).

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  148. 148. Wiki has Waraka a cousin of both husband and first wife, doubtless cousin and uncle could be accurate simultaneously.

    149. But sheep need beware.

    DNF (36ae6c)

  149. Further to my last, the Laffey didn’t succeed in doing everything.

    http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0568008.jpg

    That was going to be left to the Melvin in Surigao Strait.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  150. Laffey gave it a good try, though.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  151. http://destroyerhistory.org/benson-gleavesclass/usslaffey/index.asp?pid=45904

    U.S.S. LAFFEY
    November 14, 1942.

    From: The Commanding Officer (Acting)
    To: Commander South Pacific Force

    Subject: U.S.S. LAFFEY, Battle Report of.

    Enclosure: (A) List of known survivors.
    (B) List of known dead…

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  152. British immigration official(BIO): Name?
    Syrian Migrant(SM): Abdullah bin Abdullah.
    BIO: Sex?
    SM: Four, five times a week.
    BIO: No, I mean male or female.
    SM: Male, female, sheep, goat, cow.
    BIO: Oh, dear.
    SM: No deer. Deer run too fast.

    nk (dbc370)

  153. Green, it’s a good thing your mama died giving birth to you, If she read the idiotic things you write today, she’d die of shame…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  154. He ain’t Green, he’s yellow.

    ropelight (f3a7c6)

  155. Colonel Haiku, he didn’t have a mother. He’s a test tube baby. And the test was a failure. Kinda like Formulas 1-408.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  156. Greenie – thanks for entertaining me. Your breathless idiocy is beyond parody.

    JD (3b5483)

  157. It may be beyond parody, but he is rather parroty.

    John Hitchcock (e1806a)

  158. norwegian blue ‘he’s just pining for the fjords,’ though,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  159. I’d like to have a few choice words with the idiots who came up with the “‘blood moon’ a sign from the heavens nonsense”. (Some didn’t even get the dates of the eclipse right; they have it on Yom Kippur instead of Sukkot.) My impressionable 13-year old saw it on the intertubes yesterday (may the fleas of a thousand camels infest Instagram) and I’ve been trying to reassure her that the world is not going to end.

    nk (dbc370)

  160. g green brain cells
    way too few to register
    legally brain dead

    http://t.co/POJQsUBeyT

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  161. the problem is we don’t have enough scriptural education, otherwise those blithely ignore Matt 24; 26, would not have a day job,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  162. 156. How about them US trained Syrian counterinsurgents, trained at $ 10 Mil a pop?

    Bet they have the ungulates eating out of they hands.

    DNF (36ae6c)

  163. thank god, for the salary cap, gary,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  164. I find it both amusing and pathetic that people who generally feel resentment towards Christianity — in which its founder in various ways was pretty much a do-gooder liberal — also feel more accommodating towards or forgiving of Islamism, whose founder was a ruthless, bloodthirsty, reactionary SOB.

    I think this will be resolved if all the liberals of the US and Europe enter a Mad-Max Thunderdome-type scenario — “of two men (or, in this case, groups) enter, one man leaves” — in which they’d be facing a crowd of Islamocists.

    May the two sides pulverize one another and may neither one of them leave.

    Mark (8fc594)

  165. Maybe everybody knows this. So I’m guilty of once again reading from the Book of Obvious.

    To turn away from the charge is to slow yourself down, and expose your flank to enemy fire.

    Bad move, tactically speaking.

    It hadn’t been mentioned.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  166. 163.
    Well, they have company. Next year Easter for Catholics and Protestants (not sure about Eastern Orthodox) falls a month early. Maundy Thursday coincides with Purim in 2016. (The new year,5776, is a leap year with 13 months.)
    But the Shemittah year is over, and whatever was supposed to happen does not seem to have happened. (You can pass that on to the offspring.)
    And of course tomorrow is Baggins Day.

    kishnevi (31ba4e)

  167. Greek Orthodox Easter always coincides with Passover. We even call it Pascha, from Pessach. The formula for Roman Catholic/Protestant Easter is the first Sunday after the first full moon after the vernal equinox and they count backwards from there for Lent and Holy Week.

    nk (dbc370)

  168. Looked it up. Passover ends April 30. Greek Orthodox Easter Sunday is May 1. Roman Catholic Easter Sunday is March 27.

    nk (dbc370)

  169. Technically you are a week late (however you work out the crucifixion or Last Supper as being on the eve of Passover)…like Sukkot, Passover comes on the 15th of a lunar month, and therefore the full moon (in theory. Calendrical quirks are involved that may move it off by a day.)

    However a week late is better than a month early.

    kishnevi (31ba4e)

  170. may move it off by a day
    It being the full moon.

    kishnevi (28fa9f)

  171. I’m not sure which is more worrying, you’re ignorance regarding the multiplicity of Islam, or your lack of faith in the American assimilation pressures and their effects on Islam. America has heretofore successfully assimilated every group we have come into contact with (and those that do maintain some separation, like the Mennonites, do so quietly and privately). Why would Islam qua culture be different?

    Every relevant difference and distinction that in different centuries and different climes would have lead to civil war and civic strife exists safely and happily, side-by-side and comfortably in the United States. Why should Islam qua ideology be resistant to these effects?

    G Green (8a621c)

  172. I know the Gospels say the Crucifixion and Burial took place as “Passover was approaching”. There is no reason for the Last Supper to have been a seder. Your rabbis may need to reform your calendar. We use the Julian calendar as the control, and even the Old Calendar Orthodox, Greek and Slavic are onboard. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  173. @ G Green

    First of all G Green, good on you for asking what parts of Torah law, and the bible are consistent with our constitution. Kudos to post 134. No doubt you’ve been branded an idiot who hates christians all the while with no real answer forthcoming. Par for the course. Dont get discouraged.

    With regards to below:

    Islam is, qua ideology, no special threat to humanity.

    I guess your right, Islam doesnt kill people, people kill people. But the problem is people who believe in Islam are killing people. And a lot of them. All the time. Take a look at the terror incidents list on Wikipedia. Sure a minority of muslims are actually carrying out Jihad, but a larger minority support spreading the faith by force or other means, and a larger block of muslims support Sharia. Maybe it isnt a threat to humanity, but Id say it is a threat to the western way of life.

    Gil (4e1585)

  174. You don’t think the concept of human rights — the rights of persons as opposed to citizens — has its root in “love your neighbor as you love yourself” and “do unto others as you would have them do unto you”, Gil? And don’t you think that concept of human rights is the thread that runs through the Constitution?

    nk (dbc370)

  175. Astronomers call it the metonic cycle. Torah law says the month begins with the new moon, and that Passover must come in the spring. So we have a lunar calendar that is adjusted to keep rough synchrony with the solar year. And while creation occurred in the last week of Elul (technically Rosh Hashanah marks the sixth day, the creation of humanity), so the count of years starts on 1 Tishri, the count of months starts with Nisan being the first month (that being the month of the Exodus) and Tishri is always in the seventh month. Usually Nisan and Tishri are equinox months, but not always, this coming year being an example of when they do not.
    And there are four new years …1 Nisan, 1 Tishri, 15 Shevat ( relevant to agriculture awnd trees), and the “new year of the kings”, meaning the secular/civil new year, 1 January for modern times.

    Sorry for doing a full aspie on you!

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  176. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0093416/

    “The Lighthorsemen”

    Once you are committed to a charge, you’re bloody well committed. You can’t blink.

    Much to the pleasure of a USN gunner, when a Mitsubishi G3M or G4M pilot would blink and try to pull off. And give the gunner a nice, fat, slooooow, target.

    Of course, the Japanese pilots didn’t always blink. Which led to a duel between gunners and aviators. And there were plenty of Sailors who lost that fight.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  177. They were f***ing inspirational though. The Sailors who stood by their guns, eyes locked on their sights, and kept firing until the Japanese plane bored in and took out their gun mount.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  178. I appreciate it, kishnevi. You saw my smiley. Do you know the story behind the Julian calendar? Caesar, as Pontifex Maximus, was responsible for adjusting it. Adding a few days once in a while to bring the Roman lunar year in sync with the diurnal year. But he got too busy conquering the world and neglected it to the point where by the time he got around to fixing it — actually he got a Greek astronomer from the Museum in Alexandria to do it — the first adjusted year had 445 days. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  179. Hi nk,

    Yes it is a extreme to suggest no part of Torah law or the bible fit in with the constitution. But just as easily as you can pick the nice parts out, I can pick the not so nice ones where you pay 50 shekels to the father of the woman you raped then marry her, or being permitted to beat your slave and as long as he can still walk a few days later suffer no punishment.

    Also there’s the minor issue with the mass genocides and baby killing that doesnt fit in that great.

    Gil (4e1585)

  180. Gil…it was Pharoah who killed the babies. One of the things that earned him the post of doorkeeper of Gehenna, where he challenges newcomers with the question Why didn’t you learn from my example? (According to the Midrash.)

    kishnevi (31ba4e)

  181. nk, as I understand it the previous Pontifices messed up the adjustments for decades, mostly for political reasons ( to fix the date of elections and length of term for consuls, etc., in a way I don’t remember).

    Of course, the Brits managed to lose a week and a half in the 18th century.

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  182. And then there is Rossini who managed to have a birthday only every fourth year. He was born on February 29.

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  183. it was probably due to the ‘little ice age’

    narciso (ee1f88)

  184. I highly recommend this site.

    http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm

    Why? They have a page devoted to this.

    http://www.combinedfleet.com/Oil.htm

    Oil Fields and Refineries Under Japanese Control

    by Bob Hackett

    © 2014-2015 Bob Hackett
    11 September 2015

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  185. Don’t get me wrong. Tully and Parshall sleuthed out the tale of Midway for which I will be forever grateful.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  186. nk and kishnevi, thank you for your explanations of the various calendars. I doubt I’ll remember it, but it is clear that it is understandable. Have you read about the Antikythera Mechanism? I discovered this subject last fall and have gone so far as to construct a partial replica of a small portion of the device with lego blocks. The Mechanism had a bunch of gears that had prime numbered teeth (47 for example) and the lego model could only replicate these values using differential gears. It was fun playing with that and learning about planetary gears. The best guess is that this device can be traced back to Archimedes. The link I provided above is new to me, but it has references to the other work, and there’s a ton of webpages and youtube videos ranging from historical accounts with pictures of the items recovered by the Greek sponge divers at the turn of 20th Century, to fairly explicit accounts of the completed lego model. I find it fascinating to think how far these Greeks got.

    Too bad it all ended up as nothing but trophies for a few high ranking Romans, or as sunken treasure lost for over two millenia.

    bobathome (a52abe)

  187. Sabbath law in action, for jmann’s benefit.
    http://www.torahmusings.com/2015/09/eating-questionably-reheated-kugel/
    Kugel=noodle pudding
    Melacha=action forbidden on the Sabbath
    Other Hebrew terms are either obvious from content or not necessary to understand the general point of the article.

    kishnevi (28fa9f)

  188. Bob, I remember reading about that discovery a few months ago. Thanks for reminding me about it!

    kishnevi (31ba4e)

  189. My guess is that people are confusing religion, theology, tradition, and history. A large proportion of the Torah and Bible record the folly and consequences of people adopting a secular or pagan pro-choice doctrine and the ensuing progressive corruption. Also, many of the practices are no longer licit without God’s counsel.

    Does the Quran also combine elements of philosophy and secular accounts?

    n.n (30a50e)

  190. Steve, agreed, Shattered Sword is a model of everything that makes a work of history great. I’m looking forward to reading Hackett’s book over the next few days.

    bobathome (a52abe)

  191. yes, as paul points out in romans, the Law by itself, doesn’t save it might actually encourage sin, hence jesus’s sacrifice, which expiated adam’s folly,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  192. Bob, it’s a rare individual who can make petroleum, oil, and lubricants interesting.

    http://www.usni.org/store/books/audio-books/hell-pay

    HELL TO PAY

    Operation DOWNFALL and the invasion of Japan, 1945 – 1947

    By D. M. Giangreco

    And blood. The sheer logistics of pulling off an invasion of Japan, including supplying the blood and the plasma, is staggering.

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  193. Well, outside of a porn star. I opened myself up to that one, didn’t I?

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  194. Steve57 (b3924b) — 9/21/2015 @ 6:01 pm

    I’d say that this is part of the reason so many running backs fail to make first down.

    felipe (56556d)

  195. I’d say that this is part of the reason why so many running backs fail to make first down.
    felipe (56556d) — 9/21/2015 @ 9:06 pm

    FTFM!

    felipe (56556d)

  196. I’m not sure which is more worrying, you’re ignorance regarding the multiplicity of Islam, or your lack of faith in the American assimilation pressures and their effects on Islam.

    I think you’re being naive in that you’re confusing this nation in the year 2015 with this nation in the year 1970, 1960, 1950, 1930, etc.

    A glimpse of our future is unfolding in Europe, with all its socio-economic “Eurosclerosis” and mindless tolerance for tolerance’s sake, and phony compassion for compassion’s sake. The only difference is we’re merely a few years behind what’s going on across the pond. Most crucially, I don’t think our US Constitution or positive socio-political idiosyncrasies will be there (or intact enough) to save us—not this time around, not like what happened in the early 1900s or 1940s.

    It’s impossible to confuse America in the 21st century from America of past generations, when the ethos of “when in Rome, do as the Romans do” and “the nail that sticks out gets hammered down” were a bit more pervasive and influential.

    The choice of a trashy debacle like Barack Obama in 2008 — along with other trends he’s merely the tip of the iceberg of — would have been unthinkable not all that long ago. As such, he symbolizes a sea change we’ll never live down.

    Mark (8fc594)

  197. Indeed Mark. Dr Carson, did not BAN Muzzlims from being President, nor did he advocate such a ban.
    The LIBTARD MFM is pushing a MEME. GUS DON’T PLAY THAT.

    Gus (7cc192)

  198. My dogs, Lolla and Romeo, were looking at me wondering what the h3ll was up. I was doing a forward roll. I formed my arms into a hoop, tucked my head, and went for it.

    I can do it backwards, too. I can sit myself down and kick my legs over my head.

    Yeah, me!

    Steve57 (b3924b)

  199. I guess your[sic] right, Islam doesnt kill people, people kill people. But the problem is people who believe in Islam are killing people. And a lot of them. All the time.

    It would take well over 500 years for the people who believe in Islam to kill as many people as good King Leopold, who presumably believed in Christianity.

    G Green (8a621c)

  200. Oh, go play with your weewee, GG.

    nk (dbc370)

  201. Greenie with red roots, your complete lack of knowledge, understanding, and integrity is showing, once again. Islam has slaughtered well over 10 million people already. They reached that point before Leopold was born. Islam was the cause of the Crusades, and as such, is ultimately responsible. Islam and its murderous adherents are marked in the Marine Corps Anthem. Modern day Islamic rulers were taught by the original Nazis how to slaughter Jews and other unwanteds.

    John Hitchcock (96e9a8)

  202. Greenie, why do you love islam and hate America so much? BTW, islam killed more people than anyone before Moa (no doubt another hero of yours). They’ve been murdering for 1200 years. You really, really need to get informed and stop listening to leftist professors. You really love those “Death to America” guys, don’t you? What is it you like best: raping women, beheading Christians or hanging homosexuals? BTW, whatever Leopold did he did…the moslems have never stopped and are still doing it. Death to Islam.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  203. Bobathame, you made the same mistake Ben Carson made when you said “muslims have been slaughtering” instead of saying “a small % of muslims have been slaughtering”. This is called prejudice, taking something someone in a group does and illogically assuming everyone else in that group agrees with it. You could even say “a lot of muslims” or “too many muslims”, but if I can produce two or more muslims that don’t agree with slaughtering people (not hard, likely the first two muslims I see) then you are misspeaking, just like saying all Irish are drunks or all Republicans are as stupid as George Bush.

    There have been great improvements as muslims have entered modernity in many countries – take the muslims in Dearborn or Paterson, for example. They don’t slaughter anyone, they don’t enslave anyone, they are functioning, peaceful taxpaying Americans. There might be some terrorists sprinkled in, but statistics have shown us that since 9/11, white Americans are more likely to commit acts of violence than muslim Americans, particularly white supremacists who go on mass killing sprees.

    And this brings us to the fallacy of the claim that Iran is seeking nukes in order to attack another nuclear power and ensure their own destruction. In fact, it’s Christian extremists, known as end-timers that believe the world will be coming to an end, believing Jesus will revisit the Earth and be so unhappy that God will destroy the planet. This idiocy, also called armageddon theory, drives some white Americans into many irrational practices, like hoarding canned food in the basement, scaring young children with these stupid lies, or voting for trigger happy Republican war hawks who want to pollute our skies and project American military strength in the world, because after all, nothing matters if the world is going to end anyway.

    We agree that the Republicans used to be great when they fought to abolish slavery. Today, not so much as they fight to restrict voting, espouse anti-muslim and anti-gay hatred, faithfully serve the rich to the detriment of the middle class, don’t believe in evolution, and push their religious view into government policy. The Democrats are not that much better, but at least understand that appealing to racists is a sad way to win an election.

    Deaf Anime Fan (3ae54f)

  204. The Mohammedans in Dearbornistan? You have to be kidding me if you want to hold them up for high praise.

    John Hitchcock (5a318e)

  205. @DeafAnimeFan:statistics have shown us that since 9/11, white Americans are more likely to commit acts of violence than muslim Americans, particularly white supremacists who go on mass killing sprees.

    Two points:

    1) Excluding 9/11 is a hell of a cherry pick.
    2) I can only think of two “white supremacists” who went on mass killing sprees in the last few years, there’s been a lot more Muslims doing that.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  206. if you have a basement that’s probably the best choice for where to hoard the food

    you don’t wanna stack it in the guest bedroom trust me on this

    people judge

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  207. Isn’t it funny how the dork thinks Mohammedans can’t be white?

    John Hitchcock (5a318e)

  208. Akira, There you are.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  209. @john Hitchcok:Isn’t it funny how the dork thinks Mohammedans can’t be white?

    Boston bombers: counting them as “white people” or as Muslims?

    Islam is not a race. I wonder why so many people have a hard time with that.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  210. And the Madrid bomber looked like Michael Moore.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  211. Deaf Anime Fan, you need some learn’in boy. Republicans do not want to “restrict voting”. That’s a lie put ut by people who want non-citizens to vote. Republicans want only people qualified and allowed by law to vote. Do you have a problem with that? Republicans do not “espouse anti-moslem and anti-gay hatred”. More leftist double talk. Republicans understand that moslems by the nature of their theocratic, undemocratic beliefs caused by their religion being their government also have historically refused to assimilate. Mostly they conquer, destroy and murder non moslems. Therefore, there is no logical reason for them to want to live in America and no reason to let them. Unless you hate America. Do you hate America and want to fundamentally change it into a caliphate? Because that’s what moslems want.

    Republicans have never espoused anti-gay hatred, show me. Republicans respect people to be people they just don’t want to be forced to support or celebrate things they don’t believe in. Is that unreasonable to you Deaf? Do you believe you have the right to force other people to bow before your sexual desires whether hetero or homosexual?

    Where do you get that Republicans “faithfully serve the rich to the detriment of the middle class”? How exactly do they do that? Do they tax the money from the middle class hands? No, that would be the dems. Do they add layer after layer of laws, rules and regulations making prices higher for the middleclass for everything from milk to cars to energy? No, again the dems. So exactly how do these nefarious Republicans manage this giant theft, especially when dems are in power?

    Now, my ill informed little guy, who told you Republicans “don’t believe in evolution”? Must be another left wing talking head who never asked, just like you. First of all I and many other Republicans do believe in evolution. Second, you do realize evolution is a theory not a fact don’t you? And what doe believing or not believing in the theory of evolution have to do with being Republican. That’s science, not politics.

    You need to explain exactly what religious views Republicans push into government policy. You mean like murder, rape and theft are illegal? Because what you are saying is that all Republicans are the same religion and ” push their religious view into government policy”. That’s fundamentally a lie. But it amuses me that you live here, where you are free to worship or not any God you want and defend islam and moslems who are theocrats, and who do “push their religious view into government policy”, in fact their religious view IS government policy and accuse us of doing it. You suffer from Liberal Intellectual Acute Retardation, or as I call it LIAR.

    No wonder you leftist love moslems so much, you have a lot in common. First, both of you have converted/perverted you politics into a religion. Second, your hatred of Christianity is only surpassed by your hatred of Judaism. Finally, your inability to play nice with others and to demand, demand I say, they acquiesce to your beliefs and demands make you both raging sociopaths.

    Now go read the Koran and come back and tell me how bigoted we are for wanting to keep out people who belong to a sect that preaches it’s okay to murder non-muslems and has it’s non-terrorist members running around shouting “Death to America” while that “small number” as you call it (by estimate 10-20% of 1.5 billion moslems or 100-200,000,000 killers).

    You should change your handle to Willfully Deaf, Dumb and Blind Anime Fan.

    A school-board meeting in New Jersey descended into chaos when a room full of angry Muslim parents were denied a last-minute request by its members.

    Tempers were so raw last Thursday when the Jersey City Board of Education decided not to close schools for the Muslim holiday of Eid al-Adha that officials had to order security to “take charge.” The holiday falls on Sept. 24.

    “We’re going to be the majority soon!” said one woman into a microphone, WNBC-TV reported Sept. 17.

    In “Stop the Islamization of America: A Practical Guide to the Resistance,” renowned activist Pamela Geller provides the answer, offering proven, practical guidance on how freedom lovers can stop jihadist initiatives in local communities.

    The speaker’s statement echoed a top Islamic preacher, Sheikh Muhammad Ayed, who said during a recent sermon at Jerusalem’s Al-Aqsa mosque of Muslims taking root in America and Europe, “We will breed children with them, because we shall conquer their countries – whether you like it or not,” WND reported.

    Board member Gerald Lyons tried to explain the “undue hardship” closing schools on short notice would cause for up to 10,000 parents, but attendees were not placated.

    Muslim parents are permitted to take their children out of school for an excused religious absence with no penalty, WNBC reported.

    “We feel alienated from the Board of Education, we feel alienated from this system,” added Omar Abouelkhair.

    The National Center for Education Statistics puts the number of Muslim students enrolled in Jersey City’s 38 public schools at 27,000.

    That number may increase if the Obama administration has its way.

    Secretary of State John Kerry said Sunday the U.S. plans to admit 85,000 Syrian refugees over the next year and 100,000 by 2017, WND reported.

    Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/09/offended-muslims-go-berserk-on-school-board/#FS5cZZGyTUw1x6Pt.99

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  212. Wait, what? King Leopold is the only Christian monarch who ruled over mass murders? I don’t think that’s true.

    Islam was the cause of the Crusades

    Oh, really?

    In any case, the point isn’t the adduce a running total of people killed in war, it’s to point out that there’s isn’t anything especially remarkable about the record of Islamic kingdoms or empires in the history of human barbarity and cruelty.

    Read this article from a noted American-hating, Communist about the fundamental misreading of what Islam does and does not teach:

    Here the point I keep making about medieval Christianity and the Crusades can be applied to Islamic civilization as well. Just as it makes no sense to treat the perpetrators of the Rhineland massacres (rather than the many Christian leaders, royal and clerical, who opposed and condemned pogroms) as the “real” face of medieval Christendom, the essential manifestation of everyone who took the cross or fought for Christendom, so too it doesn’t make sense to reach back to, say, the Granada Massacre or any other great crime perpetrated by pre-modern Muslims in order to portray ISIS as essentially faithful to the Islam of the Middle Ages in ways that other present-day Muslims are not. Indeed, one could more plausibly contrast the Islamic State’s barbarity with the conduct of the (zealous, warlike) Saladin, or the norms of many Islamic governments across the centuries we call medieval, and use that contrast to undercut the new caliphate’s claim to deep continuity with its pre-modern predecessors.

    G Green (8a621c)

  213. Did I miss this being declared Progtard Tuesday? Post #215 from the clinically insane g green is Exhibit “A”.

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55)

  214. Oh dear Allah. It crawled back out from under its rock.

    JD (974587)

  215. it’s to point out that there’s isn’t anything especially remarkable about the record of Islamic kingdoms or empires in the history of human barbarity and cruelty.

    Unless you consider moslems, the followers of islam, doing the very same barbaric atrocities today, 2015, they did in 800. That’s special and remarkable. Some people, religions and political positions grow and mature. Others just keep grinding out the bodies of infidels. Wow, what a great and noble religion and people. We should invite them here to live among us. I think every registered democrat should be forced to house a family of “refugee” moslems brought in by their great leader.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  216. Beetlejuice, beetlejuice, jd.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  217. Actually I think Carson’s point was not precisely correct. Islam is not compatible with the general concept of American constitutional government, meaning government with limited powers and guaranteed individual rights like free speech. It’s intrinsically fascistic. Like the left.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  218. Green geek ripping off Douthat at the NYT… lol… http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/18/in-defense-of-islam/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  219. Who cares what Douthat thinks about anything!?!? He works for the NYT.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  220. he’s more like a pet than an employee

    happyfeet (831175)

  221. Read this article from a noted American-hating, Communist about the fundamental misreading of what Islam does and does not teach:

    In which Green demonstrates more of his sheer idiocy, as if we need more examples from this fool.

    Who goes to the NYT for his lessons on hwat Islam does and does not teach.

    I recall being seated at the same table as a NYT reader on my honeymood cruise. The guy learned I lived in Japan, and that my wife was Japanese. He started waxing eloquent about all the reasons he loved Japan. Everything he thought he knew about Japan was laughably wrong. I tried to drop a few hints, gently, but he would hear none of it.

    He had read about Japan in the NYT, you see. He KNEW!

    Finally I gave up, turned to my Japanese wife and said in Japanese, “Listen up, babe, this guy is going to tell us all about Japan.”

    That did it. He got that. So he stood up, said “Good evening, sir,” and stalked out of the dining room. Which was the exact result I was hoping for.

    If you want to be misinformed on a variety of topics, use the NYT as your source.

    Which brings us back to the topic. If you want to advertise your ignorance of Islam, cite the NYT about what supposedly Islam does and does not teach.

    Me, I’ll stick to the original source material; the Hadith, the Sirah, and the Quran. As well as what Islamic cleric’s and scholars teach about Islam.

    http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Traveller-Classic-Islamic-Al-Salik/dp/0915957728

    The Reliance of the Traveller; Milestones Along The Road. Alternate title: A Better Source Than the New York Times. Al-Azhar University approved.

    Or, you could be like Green and go with Ross Douthat and his cherry picked facts. I notice Douthat mentions Saladin while committing the ignoramus’ sin of equating the Crusades with Jihad. There is no doubt that Salah ad-Din lived up to the Christian ideal of chivalry then nearly all Christians. In fact, he may have received a Christian knighthood while he was being held as a hostage during a post-war prisoner exchange and settlement (a common practice among both Muslims and Christians). There is no evidence either way.

    But then Saladin also exceeded the moral example of his own prophet. And there were plenty of Muslim war leaders at that time who comported themselves more in accordance with their prophet’s example. And consequently more in line with ISIS. For instance, the Old Man of the Mountain, the leader of the assassins.

    Amazing how these details escape Douthat’s attention. But if you’re going to offer up that particular defense of Islam you sort of have to ignore certain historical realities.

    When Muhammad defeated the Jews of Khaybar he tortured their leader, Kanina, to death for no higher purpose than to steal the Jews money. He had his followers build a fire on his chest until the man talked. Kanina was the town treasurer. Then one of his followers beheaded the nearly dead Kanina, following which Muhammad raped his 18 year old bride Safiyah (Safiyah Bint Huyayy Ibn Akhtab).

    And it was nothing but rape. One of Muhammad’s followers, Bilal, deliberately paraded the mutilated corpses of their husbands, brothers, fathers, uncles, before the women just to cause them grief and anguish.

    ISIS, anyone?

    When Muhammad was raping Safiyah another of his companion’s stood guard outside his tent all night. He was worried she might try to kill him. And rightly so we are after all talking about a brutal butcher and rapist.

    So while Douthat is correct that the perpetrators of the Rhineland massacre were pi$$ poor followers of Christ, they were damned fine followers of Muhammad. Down to the letter. So you stick with Douthat, Green. You just do that.

    P.S. Fun fact: why do I know the Arabic term for Coitus Interruptus? It’s in the Muslims’ Holy Books as instruction for how to rape captive women.

    http://sunnah.com/bukhari/64

    Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:

    I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Sa`id said, “We went out with Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said, ‘How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah’s Messenger (ﷺ) who is present among us?” We asked (him) about it and he said, ‘It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.”

    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 4138
    In-book reference : Book 64, Hadith 182
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 5, Book 59, Hadith 459
    (deprecated numbering scheme)

    Note Muhammad didn’t advise his followers not to keep slaves (how many slaves did Jesus have, again?) let alone not to rape them. Just that it didn’t matter when they were raping their captives if they practiced Al-Azl or not.

    P.P.S. A Jewish woman at Khaybar did kill Muhammad. It just wasn’t Safiyahh.

    http://sunnah.com/abudawud/41

    Narrated AbuSalamah:

    A Jewess presented a roasted sheep to the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) at Khaybar.

    He then mentioned the rest of the tradition like that of Jabir (No. 4495). He said: Then Bashir ibn al-Bara’ ibn Ma’rur al-Ansari died. He sent someone to call on the Jewess, and said to her (when she came): What motivated you to do the work you have done? He then mentioned the rest of the tradition similar to the one mentioned by Jabir (No. 4495).

    The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then ordered regarding her and she was killed. But he (AbuSalamah) did not mention the matter of cupping.

    Grade : Hasan Sahih (Al-Albani) حسن صحيح (الألباني) حكم :
    Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4511
    In-book reference : Book 41, Hadith 18
    English translation : Book 40, Hadith 4496

    Narrated Abu Hurairah:

    The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) would accept a present, but would not accept alms (sadaqah). And Wahb bin Baqiyyah narrated to us, elsewhere, from Khalid, from Muhammad ibn Amr said on the authority of AbuSalamah, and he did not mention the name of Abu Hurairah: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used to accept presents but not alms (sadaqah).

    This version adds: So a Jewess presented him at Khaybar with a roasted sheep which she had poisoned. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) ate of it and the people also ate.

    He then said: Take away your hands (from the food), for it has informed me that it is poisoned. Bishr ibn al-Bara’ ibn Ma’rur al-Ansari died.

    So he (the Prophet) sent for the Jewess (and said to her): What motivated you to do the work you have done?

    She said: If you were a prophet, it would not harm you; but if you were a king, I should rid the people of you. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) then ordered regarding her and she was killed. He then said about the pain of which he died: I continued to feel pain from the morsel which I had eaten at Khaybar. This is the time when it has cut off my aorta.

    Grade : Hasan Sahih (Al-Albani) حسن صحيح (الألباني) حكم :
    Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 4512
    In-book reference : Book 41, Hadith 19
    English translation : Book 40, Hadith 4497

    You see, the lady was not pleased by fact the prophet and his followers had killed her father, uncles, husband and brothers. And the fool let her cook him dinner.

    The fact the Ahadith mentions that Muhammad felt like his aorta had been severed is important as the Quran says that is how Allah would kill Muhammad if he were a false prophet. He would seize Muhammad by his right hand and sever his aorta.

    Yeah, Green. You just stick with the NYT.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  222. He does have an ot to like insistence on getting it wrong. I imagine douthat didn’t t add take Any courses from Hamilton Gibb.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  223. Or any of his successors, now what be interesting is a real defense of christianity, Harvard was formed as a training school for ministers among other things

    narciso (ee1f88)

  224. http://quran.com/69/40

    Surah Al-Haqqah (The reality) 69:40-46:

    [That] indeed, the Qur’an is the word of a noble Messenger. And it is not the word of a poet; little do you believe. Nor the word of a soothsayer; little do you remember. [It is] a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. And if Muhammad had made up about Us some [false] sayings, We would have seized him by the right hand; Then We would have cut from him the aorta.

    Sunan Abu Dawud 4512:

    I continued to feel pain from the morsel which I had eaten at Khaybar. This is the time when it has cut off my aorta.

    What does Islam teach? Actually, one answer is not much. The Pact of Umar forbade non-Muslims to teach their children the

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  225. Damned optical mouse.

    The Pact of Umar which forbade non-Muslims from teaching their children the Quran was in one sense not discriminatory. Muslim authorities weren’t big on having Muslims learn from their own texts. Muslims were then and are now to rely on their religious authorities to tell them what they’re supposed to know, when they are supposed to know it.

    Sunnis, you will note, are not by name adherents to the Quran. They are adherents to the Sunnah. That’s how important it is. If you don’t read the Sunnah (and Sunan Abu Dawud’s collection is universally accepted among Sunnis; there is a dispute over the Hadith collections of Sunan Ibn Majah and Muwatta Malik, and the Shia are a whole different cat) you don’t know a thing about being Muslim. And 99.9% of American Muslims have no clue who killed Muhammad. It took a few years, and it was painful, but eventually that Jewish lady from Khaybar had her revenge.

    Ask an American Muslim how Muhammad died and they think it was from old age. This is not information their religious leaders think they need to know, and now is not the time to know it.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  226. Steve57,

    First of all, you present the Koran as it was written, not as it has been interpreted.

    Second, Have you seen this: http://www.evilbible.com/Rape.htm or this: http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm

    What do Judaism or Pauline Christianity teach?

    In comparison, is Islam especially evil?

    Gustav (363b7e)

  227. Yes, Gustav, Islam is especially evil. Not I’m not using biased sources like “evilquran.com/rape.htm” or “evilquran.com/slavery.htm.”

    Had I been, you might have had a point.

    So you keep citing your anti-Christian screeds. I will continue to cite texts that Muslims consider authoritative.

    I guess the difference is lost on you. You might as well be citing the NYT.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  228. I thought that part was apocrypha, about the woman from khaybar.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  229. The second link has this:

    In the following parable, Jesus clearly approves of beating slaves even if they didn’t know they were doing anything wrong.

    The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. “But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given.” (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

    That passage has nothing to do with slavery. Anyone who reads the whole chapter, as opposed to taking a couple of lines out of context, can tell that.

    Anti-bible types do this sort of thing over and over.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  230. First of all, you present the Koran as it was written, not as it has been interpreted.

    LOL

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  231. Biased sources? He’s quoting directly from the Bible, Steve57. If you’re point out that his quotations are selective, well sure, but so are yours. It actually says those things.

    For example: Deuteronomy 20:10-14New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

    10 When you draw near to a town to fight against it, offer it terms of peace. 11 If it accepts your terms of peace and surrenders to you, then all the people in it shall serve you at forced labor. 12 If it does not submit to you peacefully, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it; 13 and when the Lord your God gives it into your hand, you shall put all its males to the sword. 14 You may, however, take as your booty the women, the children, livestock, and everything else in the town, all its spoil. You may enjoy the spoil of your enemies, which the Lord your God has given you.

    Small boys being mauled by bears:

    2 Kings 2:23-25New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)

    23 He went up from there to Bethel; and while he was going up on the way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him, saying, “Go away, baldhead! Go away, baldhead!” 24 When he turned around and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two she-bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. 25 From there he went on to Mount Carmel, and then returned to Samaria.

    Plenty of exhortation to kill apostates in the Bible:

    Deuteronomy 13:6-12New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (NRSVCE)
    6 If anyone secretly entices you—even if it is your brother, your father’s son or[a] your mother’s son, or your own son or daughter, or the wife you embrace, or your most intimate friend—saying, “Let us go worship other gods,” whom neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other, 8 you must not yield to or heed any such persons. Show them no pity or compassion and do not shield them. 9 But you shall surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 Stone them to death for trying to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 11 Then all Israel shall hear and be afraid, and never again do any such wickedness.

    Surrender and you get to be slaves. Fight and you’ll be put to the sword and your women will be raped and children will be slaves. Call a crazy old man baldy and you’ll be torn up by bears. What’s the essential difference in terms of violence and degredation here?

    It’s not biased if IT ACTUALLY SAYS THOSE THINGS.

    Why don’t we reject Jews and Christians for high office, given what the Bible says?

    Gustav (363b7e)

  232. Gerald A,

    I see you used a biased source there. No matter. Let me ask you one question: if you can interpret the Bible, why can’t Muslim’s interpret the Koran?

    Gustav (363b7e)

  233. Oh, by the way, according to Islamic scholarship Muhammad is the ultimate expert on how the Quran is to be interpreted.

    Surah An Nisa (The Women) 4:59-69:

    Have you not seen those who claim to have believed in what was revealed to you, [O Muhammad], and what was revealed before you? They wish to refer legislation to Taghut, while they were commanded to reject it; and Satan wishes to lead them far astray. And when it is said to them, “Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger,” you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion. So how [will it be] when disaster strikes them because of what their hands have put forth and then they come to you swearing by Allah , “We intended nothing but good conduct and accommodation.” Those are the ones of whom Allah knows what is in their hearts, so turn away from them but admonish them and speak to them a far-reaching word. And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful. But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muhammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission. And if We had decreed upon them, “Kill yourselves” or “Leave your homes,” they would not have done it, except for a few of them. But if they had done what they were instructed, it would have been better for them and a firmer position [for them in faith]. And then We would have given them from Us a great reward. And We would have guided them to a straight path. And whoever obeys Allah and the Messenger – those will be with the ones upon whom Allah has bestowed favor of the prophets, the steadfast affirmers of truth, the martyrs and the righteous. And excellent are those as companions.

    So, try again.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  234. If you’re point out that his quotations are selective, well sure, but so are yours. It actually says those things.

    It has nothing to do with “selective”. The bible doesn’t say what he says it does. This is clearly shown in #234. He inserts things that aren’t there.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  235. I see you used a biased source there. No matter. Let me ask you one question: if you can interpret the Bible, why can’t Muslim’s interpret the Koran?

    Gustav (363b7e) — 9/22/2015 @ 7:53 pm

    Uh no. Your source creates things out of thin air. For example, he says Deuteronomy 20:10-14 is telling them to rape the women. It’s not there. Period.

    How do you purport to know Muslims don’t interpret the Koran as written? That sounds idiotic.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  236. 236. Gerald A,

    I see you used a biased source there. No matter. Let me ask you one question: if you can interpret the Bible, why can’t Muslim’s interpret the Koran?

    Gustav (363b7e) — 9/22/2015 @ 7:53 pm

    They can certainly try. But here, too, I go to the Muslim sources. I’m not going to go to a non-Muslim interpreter of the Quran. If I want an authoritative examination of the text of the Quran (exegisis) I’ll rely on Ibn Kathir.

    http://qtafsir.com/

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  237. I almost feel guilty engaging in what should be a battle of wits considering Gerald and Gustav are entirely unarmed.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  238. Come now, booty isn’t just pirate treasure, Gerald.

    Gustav (363b7e)

  239. He believes Aristotle was Belgian.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  240. Safiyahh wasn’t the only woman Muhammad raped. There was also, to name but one example, Mary the Copt.

    I’m curious to know, Gustav, what mental disease causes you to think this a joking matter.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  241. This is one of the items from his “God approves of rape” link:

    Death to the Rape Victim (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)

    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

    It is clear that God doesn’t give a damn about the rape victim. He is only concerned about the violation of another mans “property”.

    Again, where does it say anything about rape? It isn’t there.

    From Debunking evil bible:

    Here it is interesting to note than EB has been citing the NLT, and now switches to the NAB for the remainder of the article. The NLT’s verse is even farther away from citing rape, while the NAB is closer, and therefore suits EB’s purpose, deliberate misinterpretation, better. The NLT says “suppose a man meets a young woman, a virgin engaged to a man, and has sexual intercourse with her…” Again, no rape. This is fornication, and both are punished for it. They cannot get married like #4 because she is already engaged, so they must be punished, and God has rules set for that. Also, there is a part EB conveniently left out in the very next verse. It says “But if the man meets the engaged woman out in the country, and he rapes her, than only the man must die.” Sound like condoning rape to you?

    His source is a flat out liar. Did he even read the

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  242. I mean, what the hey, didn’t Jesus and Buddha rape wide swaths across Asia and the Middle East? Didn’t Jesus and Buddha slaughter thousands?

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  243. Steve57,

    If we go to Jewish interpreters of the genocide passages in the OT, what do they tell us?

    Q: Did G‑d once not just promote, but command genocide, including women and children, even infants?

    A: Yes. Not genocide as we know it, since no one spoke of genes in those times, but something that looks quite ugly nonetheless.

    The Israelites were commanded to entirely eliminate the tribes that inhabited the Land of Canaan in their conquest. The reason given was so that they would not assimilate their evil ways.

    That’s one of the reasons it’s not really genocide: If a tribe or a member of one these tribes abandoned the offensive behavior of his or her tribal cult, they were no longer targeted. There is a tradition cited in the Jerusalem Talmud that Joshua sent three letters warning these people and offering a truce if they would keep the Noahide Laws (basic, universal law) and pay a tax to the Israelites—or leave the land.1 Those who did not accept were to be entirely wiped out.2

    In practice, only one tribe accepted this arrangement, with some complications. The Israelites never fully carried out the command to eliminate the Canaanites, although large numbers were slaughtered in battle. And yes, they did end up often ensnared in many of the degenerate practices of these peoples, and these people continued their hostilities for many centuries—as detailed in the Book of Judges and the Book of Kings.

    The Israelites were also commanded to entirely eliminate the Amalekites. King Saul came close to accomplishing this, but it was never entirely fulfilled. (As a result, an Amalekite named Haman came close to annihilating the entire Jewish population many centuries later.) An Amalekite also has the choice to abandon his or her tribe for a civil way of life. The Talmud tells that descendants of Haman (an Amalekite) converted and taught Torah.3

    There was also a war of retribution on the Midianites that sends chills down my spine.

    Gustav (363b7e)

  244. Come now, booty isn’t just pirate treasure, Gerald.

    Gustav (363b7e) — 9/22/2015 @ 8:04 pm

    This is a link to a Beastie Boys song Professor Booty. What?

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  245. When I cite “debunking the evil Quran” we can talk, s***bird.

    Until then I’ll cite the sources Muslims refer to. I realize you can’t acknowledge the difference. It would be fatal to your cause.

    Also, please note I insulted the NYT reader to his face. I’m not a keyboard commando. I really do want you to know what I think of you.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  246. A source. A source that alleges what the God of Israel commanded.

    Thanks for playing, loser.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  247. It’s crazy that someone would think we would take a source named “Evil Bible” seriously when referencing the Bible. Only a deranged person would take a source with such a name seriously.

    John Hitchcock (7d490d)

  248. What is the NAB and the NLT? There are lots of versions of the Bible, and many of them have strayed a great distance from the original text. I have stated before that I prefer the NIV (New International Version) from 1985 or prior, for its readability while maintaining a close relationship with the original text, but the KJV (King James Version) is the most accurate English Language version. Newer versions of the Bible stray much further from the actual text than older versions, as a whole, due to the politicization going on.

    So, what again is the NAB and NLT?

    John Hitchcock (7d490d)

  249. As a practical, legal, and moral matter I am against fighting. So appreciate my opportunity to settle my differences with Gustav and Gerald with words.

    The last physical fight I had was St. Paddy’s Day, 2007. Some drunk/stoned dude came into my restaurant and informed me he was parking in my lot and I was not to let his car bet towed. I informed him to pack sand.

    When he came back looking for his car he figured out a) his car had been towed and b) I was not his friend. I invited him outside as I did not want to get hit with a chair. I lucked out as even though I was just coming off a broken leg and I couldn’t box with him I did take him to ground and grappled with him until the cops arrived.

    There is just so much that can go wrong. It’s not worth it.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  250. Steve57,

    Why you mad, bro? You’re calling me names, saying I lose and other non-arguments, and threatening to fight me. I’m not impressed, mostly because it’s cheap and stupid, but also because it futile and silly.

    Here’s my advice, take it as you will: Just make an argument. Try and be persuasive. See if that works any better for you.

    John Hitchcock,

    I would never denigrate the KJV in terms of its importance to the English language and English literature. However, the most accurate version? You must be joking.

    Gustav (363b7e)

  251. The Israelite by Desmond Pecker

    Get up in the morning, lying for bread, sir
    So that the Soros coffers can be fed
    They blame the Israelite, sir

    Get up in the morning, lying for bread, sir
    So that the Soros coffers can be fed
    They blame the Israelite

    Clinton and Sanders they should pack up an’ leave here
    Their shtick is old they don’t need to be seen
    They blame the Israelite

    Sh*t them a tear up, chances are blown
    I wish they would end up like Bonnie an’ Clyde
    They blame the Israelite

    After a storm there must be a calm

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  252. Jesus was an unarmed prophet. His followers, goodness help us, have killed, raped, tortured, and enslaved millions.

    Gustav (363b7e)

  253. Jesus was an unarmed prophet.

    That is 2 lies in one sentence plus one misstatement.

    First off, Jesus is. Not was.
    Secondly, He was and is God.
    Third, when He was chasing people with a whip, those He chased can assure you, He was not unarmed.

    John Hitchcock (7d490d)

  254. Gustav, when last I left the matter CAIR had petitioned the court that tried the Holyland foundation trial unsuccessfully on a number of matters. For instance, getting CAIR’s name removed from the transcript. For Instance, getting the group’s name removed from the list of unindicted co-conspirators.

    I’m not mad. I would appreciate you directing my attention to a corrected record.

    Please advise. But until you correct the entire record, I can only conclude you are getting your information from Hamas’ unindicted coconspirators.

    I prefer not to. Funny me. Ha ha.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  255. I would never denigrate the KJV in terms of its importance to the English language and English literature. However, the most accurate version? You must be joking.
    Gustav (363b7e) — 9/22/2015 @ 8:44 pm

    I assure you, it is the version that most accurately translates the original text into English.

    John Hitchcock (7d490d)

  256. He’s using CAIR as a source? That’s intentional dishonesty in the continued attempt to isolate and annihilate the Jewish nation.

    John Hitchcock (7d490d)

  257. Source material:
    New Jerk Slimes
    Evil Bible
    CAIR

    No agenda there.

    ////

    John Hitchcock (7d490d)

  258. John,

    Sorry, Strauss’s interpretation of Machiavelli. In any case, I’ll leave you with Flannery O’Conner:

    “Well, I preach the Church Without Christ. I’m member and preacher to that church where the blind don’t see and the lame don’t walk and what’s dead stays that way. … I’m going to preach it to whoever’ll listen at whatever place. I’m going to preach there was no Fall because there was nothing to fall from and no Redemption because there was no Fall and no Judgment because there wasn’t the first two.”

    Steve57,

    I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m wondering, in so far as you believe that you’re making sense, whether your point it germane. Please make an argument.

    Gustav (363b7e)

  259. 256. Jesus was an unarmed prophet. His followers, goodness help us, have killed, raped, tortured, and enslaved millions.
    Gustav (363b7e) — 9/22/2015 @ 8:50 pm

    Yes, because swords were a rare and unknown item in the ancient world.

    Are you trying to mark yourself as a weird dude?

    Matthew 26:52

    51And behold, one of those who were with Jesus reached and drew out his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his ear. 52Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. 53″Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?…

    What exactly are you trying to accomplish, Gustav?

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  260. 262. …I have no idea what you’re talking about…

    Gustav (363b7e) — 9/22/2015 @ 9:07 pm

    I’m sure you don’t.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  261. Chabad.org isn’t a credible source?

    Gustav (363b7e)

  262. From chabad.org (what does this sound like?):

    If a tribe or a member of one these tribes abandoned the offensive behavior of his or her tribal cult, they were no longer targeted. There is a tradition cited in the Jerusalem Talmud that Joshua sent three letters warning these people and offering a truce if they would keep the Noahide Laws (basic, universal law) and pay a tax to the Israelites—or leave the land.1 Those who did not accept were to be entirely wiped out.

    My argument is not and never has been that there isn’t a lot of awful stuff in the Koran. Of course there is. My point is that there is a lot of awful stuff in almost all important world religions (and they have all dealt with this in different and more or less successful ways) and we don’t make a special effort to exclude them from American political life.

    Gustav (363b7e)

  263. Ask a Jew about the teachings of Chabad, Gustav. Not me. Never once have I presented myself as a theologian.

    What I was was an intelligence officer. And I was somewhat proficient when it came to what the jihadis intended to do based upon their references to Muslim history. It meant something. I was capable of understanding what they meant by it.

    Was it the correct understanding of Islam? How would I know? It was theirs. And here’s the bad news. They’re not alone.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  264. These anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, Islamic sh*theeled, catamites blow in and out of here on a daily basis now. Yawn.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  265. I have presented myself as something of a theologian, haven’t I?

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  266. Ask a Saint: What should we do with those who fail to heed the truth of the Risen Jesus? Compel them to enter!

    You know also that sometimes the thief scatters food before the flock that he may lead them astray, and sometimes the shepherd brings wandering sheep back to the flock with his rod.

    Gustav (363b7e)

  267. As a practical matter it’s important to understand what the majority of a religion believe.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  268. I have presented myself as something of a theologian, haven’t I?

    I can’t say you’ve presented yourself as much of anything, except unwilling to make an argument.

    Gustav (363b7e)

  269. Douthat proclaims that theology matters. Yet while citing douthat/the NYT as a source Gustave denounces his own principle.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  270. 273. I have presented myself as something of a theologian, haven’t I?

    I can’t say you’ve presented yourself as much of anything, except unwilling to make an argument.

    Gustav (363b7e) — 9/22/2015 @ 9:25 pm

    If anybody else feels the same way, please add your voices.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  271. Seriously, who can look at this comment thread and say I haven’t presented and argument. I’ve cited chapter and verse from the Quran, from the Hadigh, from the Sirah.

    Go ahead and pretend I’m not the one who failed to present an argument.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  272. Dollars to donuts this geek degenerate Gustav looks like he fell face first into a fishing tackle box.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  273. Coronello, I’m not trying to suck up. I won’t benefit from the answer one way or the other. But I really want to know.

    How is the X/1-9?

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  274. I think you told me.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  275. What is the NAB and the NLT? There are lots of versions of the Bible, and many of them have strayed a great distance from the original text. I have stated before that I prefer the NIV (New International Version) from 1985 or prior, for its readability while maintaining a close relationship with the original text, but the KJV (King James Version) is the most accurate English Language version. Newer versions of the Bible stray much further from the actual text than older versions, as a whole, due to the politicization going on.

    So, what again is the NAB and NLT?

    John Hitchcock (7d490d) — 9/22/2015 @ 8:31 pm

    The NAB is a Catholic translation of the bible. A translation takes the ancient text and translates into the language of choice. The reason we have different translations is because language changes and the Catholic bible has a few more books than the texts used in Protestant versions of the bible. Where the books are the same there is less than 2% difference between the different ancient texts. Most of the differences can be ascribed to clerical errors when the texts were hand copied by scribes. As far as I know, none of the differences change the meaning of the texts.

    The NLT is a paraphrase Which is not a translation. I could read a translation and tell you what I think it means or add words to give better meaning or clarity, that’s a paraphrase.

    Regarding changes in language. We no longer use words like “yea”. We now use “yes”. Gentleman used to be a title, now it means a male with good manners. We have new translations not because the old versions were bad, but because our language has changed. Though sometimes we get a new translation because they think they can do better. The NASB version was widely used, but thought to be very dry in its use of language. The NIV was created with the thought of making it more readable. There is no difference in the meaning between those two versions.

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  276. I think you’re doing fine Steve57. Gustav or GG don’t seem to want to engage you in actual arguments, but seem more interested in talking points. I wonder if Gustav read Debunking evilbible.com?

    Tanny O'Haley (c674c7)

  277. If they engaged me in arguments, Mr. O’Haley, they’d have to acknowledge what exactly their religion states.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  278. That wasn’t supposed to be in quotes.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  279. Assuming Islam is their religion.

    Steve57 (cfaff8)

  280. http://www.amazon.com/Book-Five-Rings-Miyamoto-Musashi/dp/1935785974

    …“In fighting and in everyday life you should be determined though calm. Meet the situation without tenseness yet not recklessly, your spirit settled yet unbiased. An elevated spirit is weak and a low spirit is weak. Do not let the enemy see your spirit.” – Miyamoto Musashi

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  281. My point is that there is a lot of awful stuff in almost all important world religions (and they have all dealt with this in different and more or less successful ways) and we don’t make a special effort to exclude them from American political life.
    Gustav (363b7e) — 9/22/2015 @ 9:18 pm

    My point is the “awful stuff” for every other major religion is history whereas the “awful stuff” in the Koran is current events which is why moslems should not be permitted in America. Just because Americas Judeo Christian history and foundation allows for freedom of religion does not mean we must allow destructive beliefs as some form of suicide to our Republic. A religion that practiced human sacrifice would not be tolerated why should a religion that practices murdering non moslems, throwing gays off buildings, acts of terrorism, stoning women, and many other revolting practices be tolerated, let alone accepted or celebrated?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  282. As a practical, legal, and moral matter I am against fighting. So appreciate my opportunity to settle my differences with Gustav and Gerald with words.

    Steve57 (cfaff8) — 9/22/2015 @ 8:34 pm

    Steve what differences with me are you settling?

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  283. As Islamic expert Robert Spencer notes in FrontPage Magazine:

    In January 2013, the Saudi Islamic scholar Sheikh Abdul Rahman bin Nassir Al Barrak declared: “Electing a president or another form of leadership or council members is prohibited in Islam as it has been introduced by the enemies of Moslems.” The idea of popular elections, he said, “has been brought by the anti-Islam parties who have occupied Moslem land.”…

    Tunisian author Salem Ben Ammar wrote last month: “‘To hell with democracy! Long live Islam!’ One hundred percent of Muslims agree with that. To say anything else is apostasy from Islam. These two competing political systems are antithetical to each other. You can’t be democratic and be a Muslim or a Muslim and be a democrat. A Jew can’t be a Nazi and a Nazi can’t be a Judeophile.”

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/09/carsons_right__islam_is_incompatible_with_the_constitution.html#ixzz3mZ2RVyYa
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

    Tell me about it.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  284. My point is that there is a lot of awful stuff in almost all important world religions (and they have all dealt with this in different and more or less successful ways) and we don’t make a special effort to exclude them from American political life.

    I can’t say you’ve presented yourself as much of anything, except unwilling to make an argument.

    His “point”, with respect to the bible, consists of throwing up links to liars.

    The rest of his “points” and “arguments” consist of random links which randomly pointing out random statements or events, in most cases from one or two thousand years ago, without any logical explanation of what exactly they demonstrate.

    What successful way has Islam dealt with the Koran, past or present? Maybe he has a random statement of some Muslim to demonstrate that too.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  285. According to Gerald Ibn Kathir = random statement about the Quran.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  286. According to Gerald Ibn Kathir = random statement about the Quran.

    Steve57 (6aaa91) — 9/23/2015 @ 5:42 am

    Where did I say that?

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  287. The Sirah of Ibn Ishaq. Just some random statement about the life of Muhammad. According to Gerald.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  288. I AM TALKING ABOUT WHAT GUSTAV IS SAYING.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  289. Are you high?

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  290. #278… the X1/9 is running well, Stve. Thanks for asking. Here’s a pic in all her glory… http://t.co/ZNuH0xHr6t

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  291. The rest of his “points” and “arguments” consist of random links which randomly pointing out random statements or events, in most cases from one or two thousand years ago, without any logical explanation of what exactly they demonstrate.

    I

    Yeah, that’s me. Random links. To just what some Yokel had to say about Islam. That Yokel being Muhammad. And those links being to the holiest books in Sunni Islam.

    But, hey! Don’t listen to me.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  292. Curious. Does anyone other than Gerald think I’m high?

    I did accidentally hit the “I” button.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  293. #296

    I am talking about Gustav. I quoted him in italics. He keeps throwing up random links. Like that link to Evil Bible. Or a quote from Augustine. Etc. Yeesh.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  294. Looking good, coronello! Really sharp.

    Why, I would even say ship shape.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  295. I apologize, Gustav. I had the idea we had a difference. I wasn’t high. Quite the opposite. I was suffering from a caffeine deficiency.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  296. Gerald. The caffeine hasn’t all kicked in.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  297. Steve I recommend the Starbucks. It tends to have a higher caffeine content than other coffees.

    Going off on a bit of a tangent: Speaking of Chabad Judaism that Gustav referenced, they believe in reincarnation!

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  298. My sister in law gave me a Starbuck’s coffee maker last Christmas. I think I’ll start adding a an extra spoonfull of coffee into the basket.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  299. Forget the coffee. Just do a 5 hour energy shot.

    John Hitchcock (7d490d)

  300. Bobathame, you made the same mistake Ben Carson made when you said “muslims have been slaughtering” instead of saying “a small % of muslims have been slaughtering”. This is called prejudice, taking something someone in a group does and illogically assuming everyone else in that group agrees with it

    Taking a lesson in what is or isn’t prejudice or what is or isn’t illogical is both ironic and amusing coming from a person oozing two-faced, ass-backwards leftist sentiment, as you do. But since you appear to be visiting this forum as a drive-by liberal, my bad for even quoting and responding to you.

    Mark (20a705)

  301. http://t.co/icS2hKlLDz

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55)

  302. Forget the coffee. Just do a 5 hour energy shot.

    John Hitchcock (7d490d) — 9/23/2015 @ 7:20 am

    Say… wasn’t JFK fond of those?

    Colonel Haiku (a5ef55)

  303. 1. The contents of the Old Testament (for example) are no more obviously compatible with a liberal democracy (classically liberal or modern liberalism, take your pick) than the contents of the Koran.
    2. As they assimilated to American culture and politics, Catholics, Jews, and Protestants largely accepted the distinction between public and private, allowing them to hold beliefs that were incompatible with modern liberal democracy while actively participating in a modern liberal democracy.
    3. At they assimilate to American culture and politics, Muslims too will accept the distinction between public and private.
    4. Writing Muslims out of American political culture, by saying something like you’d never accept a Muslim as president, retards and prevents the assimilation of Muslims into American political culture.
    5. Furthermore, those Americans who have political beliefs that are outside the mainstream of modern Protestant Christianity will look at Republican alienation/rejection of Muslims and feel that they too have been rejected.
    6. America is becoming more and more religiously diverse.
    7. It’s hard to win national elections without broad basis of support. Republicans cannot afford to alienate large swaths of the American electorate in an ever more diverse country.

    G Green (381030)

  304. No, that was Lincoln. Or Alexander Hamilton. I forget.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  305. @DeafAnimeFan:statistics have shown us that since 9/11, white Americans are more likely to commit acts of violence than muslim Americans, particularly white supremacists who go on mass killing sprees.

    Two points:

    1) Excluding 9/11 is a hell of a cherry pick.
    2) I can only think of two “white supremacists” who went on mass killing sprees in the last few years, there’s been a lot more Muslims doing that.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/22/2015 @ 1:36 pm

    Point 1: Well something obviously changed within Islam since 9/11 so that doesn’t count.

    Point 2: I doubt such a statistic exists. If we are limiting it to mass murder, such statistics don’t take into account failed attempts. For example there was the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber and the Pakistani who put a car bomb in Times Square.

    Notice how he/she goes off on a bunch of unrelated points in combination with his/her discussion of Muslims. I made a post in another forum recently about climate change and some lunatic responded with all these things unrelated to climate change in addition to a typical imbecilic claim that there are no scientific studies contrary to the alarmist AGW claims.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  306. Mark, bobathome should have known the minute a leftist who has never even taken the time to sit down with a conservative to talk about anything gets a chance the labels come out. So bobathome necessarily would have to be prejudiced or a bigot or a racist if he didn’t support bringing a bunch of murdering moslems to America. And you are like me in that when you hear an ignorant, anti American, anti Christian, pro moslem “because it’s chic to be pro moslem”, you want to engage him and hopefully expand his horizons. It rarely happens. The closed mindedness of the left proves how effective their propaganda machine is. They never miss a beat calling others names, then moving on as if they’ve won the conversation. It must be nice to live in liberal world where the actual brutal regimes and theocracies are worshipped and those evil constitutionalist Christian capitalists are so hated. Meanwhile, you leftists live off the fruits created by those you call names and would be slaughtered by those you defend. It pains me knowing I killed scores of commies in Nam so idiots like these can ruin our Republic. Had I known our generation would spawn such idiots molded into fools by the Entertainment/Educational Complex I’d have moved years ago. These kids are just like welfare recipients, they take everything they can from us then instead of showing gratitude they piss on us for giving it.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  307. It pains me knowing I killed scores of commies in Nam so idiots like these can ruin our Republic.

    o

    With your permission I will smoke a cigar in your honor, my elder brother.

    A toast.

    When I joined the Navy it was pretty much commensurate with the Gulf of Sidra and Operation Praying Mantis. I thought the only chance I had of going in harm’s way was to join the Navy.

    And…

    I didn’t do squat. No commies to my credit. As far as I know.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  308. Maybe I aided in the targeting of some commies. Or Islamists.

    Steve57 (6aaa91)

  309. Thanks, Steve57. It’s really not necessary. They were some of the best years of my life. To me there is essentially no difference between a commie and a moslem. One believes the state is god, the other believes allah is god. Both are wrong which is way their god is not capitalized. To both their belief is their “religion” and to both their religion includes murdering anyone who disagrees with it. They both want to come to America and both for the same reason: to help in the destruction of America from a Judeo Christian Republic to a godless dictatorship. That’s the only reason a commie or a moslem could have for being here since they both have absolutely nothing in common with American culture, society, historic religion, law, morality or Freedom and Liberty. So what good are they? If the Nazi’s wanted our destruction would we bring in Nazi “refugees”? no. So why are we encouraging moslem refugees. They are at war with us unless Death To America means something else in islam than in English.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  310. Doubts? There are no doubts. The kid took an old alarm clock apart, put the parts in his pencil box, and called it his invention. The fact that he didn’t pawn it for the price of a joint makes him an Honor Student in the Obama voter set.

    nk (dbc370)

  311. well nk, is what they say, when they want to acknowledge the light outside the cave, without burning their retina, the earlier speaks to why they targeted this particular berg,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  312. My Chemistry teacher taught us how to make smokeless gunpowder with cotton and concentrated nitric acid; and distill alcohol from raisins and sugar. In electric shop we made an engraving pen that both cut and burned the design into the metal. O tempores, o mores, I guess.

    Nowadays, the school cops figure that if the kids know how many grams there are in an ounce, they’re drug dealers.

    nk (dbc370)

  313. I guess it could have been worse, he could have come up with a betamax player,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  314. 1. The contents of the Old Testament (for example) are no more obviously compatible with a liberal democracy (classically liberal or modern liberalism, take your pick) than the contents of the Koran.
    2. As they assimilated to American culture and politics, Catholics, Jews, and Protestants largely accepted the distinction between public and private, allowing them to hold beliefs that were incompatible with modern liberal democracy while actively participating in a modern liberal democracy.
    3. At they assimilate to American culture and politics, Muslims too will accept the distinction between public and private.
    4. Writing Muslims out of American political culture, by saying something like you’d never accept a Muslim as president, retards and prevents the assimilation of Muslims into American political culture.
    5. Furthermore, those Americans who have political beliefs that are outside the mainstream of modern Protestant Christianity will look at Republican alienation/rejection of Muslims and feel that they too have been rejected.
    6. America is becoming more and more religiously diverse.
    7. It’s hard to win national elections without broad basis of support. Republicans cannot afford to alienate large swaths of the American electorate in an ever more diverse country.

    G Green (8a621c)

  315. Argument:
    1. The contents of the Old Testament (for example) are no more obviously compatible with a liberal democracy (classically liberal or modern liberalism, take your pick) than the contents of the Koran.
    2. As they assimilated to American culture and politics, Catholics, Jews, and Protestants largely accepted the distinction between public and private, allowing them to hold beliefs that were incompatible with modern liberal democracy while actively participating in a modern liberal democracy.
    3. At they assimilate to American culture and politics, Muslims too will accept the distinction between public and private.
    4. Writing Muslims out of American political culture, by saying something like you’d never accept a Muslim as president, retards and prevents the assimilation of Muslims into American political culture.
    5. Furthermore, those Americans who have political beliefs that are outside the mainstream of modern Protestant Christianity will look at Republican alienation/rejection of Muslims and feel that they too have been rejected.
    6. America is becoming more and more religiously diverse.
    7. It’s hard to win national elections without broad basis of support. Republicans cannot afford to alienate large swaths of the American electorate in an ever more diverse country.

    G Green (2a65da)

  316. 324. Read the Quran and learn what it states. Ken Boa on kenboa.org has (6) 45min classes that explains a lot about muslims Unless someone is willing to spend the time to learn what is written in the Quran, they have no real understanding and what they say or think is not based on the truth. As I understand it , to be philosophically consistent with the Quran would make it impossible to uphold the Constitution. I suspect most Muslims is the US are not strict adherents to the Quran. Most Christians do not adhere closely to the Bible. I study the Bible frequently. I think Ben Carson is correct. Very few people, (especially t v reporters know what they are talking about. Seek the truth. Contempt prior to investigation can easily place one in ignorance. Spend the time. Read for yourself. (Preferably with a teacher) Seek the truth.

    don roper (1d8f4d)

  317. There’s noticeably a bundle to comprehend this. I assume you have made certain good points in characteristics also.

    Karma (c2b490)

  318. Argument:

    1. The contents of the Old Testament (for example) are no more obviously compatible with a liberal democracy (classically liberal or modern liberalism, take your pick) than the contents of the Koran.

    A. Nobody said it is. It’s also not exclusive to either, obviously.

    2. As they assimilated to American culture and politics, Catholics, Jews, and Protestants largely accepted the distinction between public and private, allowing them to hold beliefs that were incompatible with modern liberal democracy while actively participating in a modern liberal democracy.

    A. Catholics, Protestants and Jews did not need a lot of “assimilation” as they all have the same basic roots. And the distinction is not between public and private but rather religious and secular.

    3. At they assimilate to American culture and politics, Muslims too will accept the distinction between public and private.

    A. No they will not because unlike the C’s, P’s and J’s their politics is also their religion.

    4. Writing Muslims out of American political culture, by saying something like you’d never accept a Muslim as president, retards and prevents the assimilation of Muslims into American political culture.

    A. moslems should not only be written out of American political structure but also written out of America. They retard their own assimilation and seek only dominance.

    5. Furthermore, those Americans who have political beliefs that are outside the mainstream of modern Protestant Christianity will look at Republican alienation/rejection of Muslims and feel that they too have been rejected.

    A. No they won’t and they never have. My wife is a practicing Buddhist and has never had a problem. “Political beliefs” outside the mainstream of Christianity is irrelevant since Protestantism, Catholicism and Judaism are not political beliefs, they are religions.

    6. America is becoming more and more religiously diverse.

    A. Unfortunately, yes it is. That “diversity” that leftists in America love so much is exactly what is “fundamentally changing” this Great Nation into a banana republic. We grew great and strong and powerful and rich following the Protestant Ethic, not the Koran. America has more diversity than any country on earth, we’re made up of immigrants from those countries who came here not to be enslaved by moslem theocracy but Liberated by Christian love and opportunity.

    7. It’s hard to win national elections without broad basis of support. Republicans cannot afford to alienate large swaths of the American electorate in an ever more diverse country.

    A. It will be harder to win elections when there aren’t any. If we keep allowing moslems and socialists into this country there won’t be any elections.

    All you need to do is look at moslem countries. Is there one you would move to? Then why bring them here to do the same thing. What? You think because they move from Darfur to Detroit suddenly they are no longer blood thirsty barbarians stuck in the 8th century? Your mind is so open your brain fell out.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  319. My comment’s in moderation? I didn’t curse.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  320. 6. America is becoming more and more religiously diverse.

    No it’s not. America has been religiously diverse almost since day one. But that diversity is not a suicide pact. Any political or religious belief that professes the end of our Republic has no place here. Only idiots welcome known killers into their home.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)


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