Patterico's Pontifications

Ding.

Patterico (fecd9b) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:53 pm

Thumbs up for Carly!

The very pleased Dana (1b79fa) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:58 pm

Jindal should be next one out I think

lackluster performances at kiddie table debates aren’t gonna get him anywhere good personally or professionally

happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:01 pm

Carly trumps Donald and finesses to make the contract.

kishnevi (31ba4e) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:10 pm

Everybody at the kiddie table should learn from Rick Perry and just go home. And a few of the people at the adults’ debate need to pack up and go home as well: Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul and Ben Carson, at least.

The realistic Dana (1b79fa) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:12 pm

the insufferable kasich too

happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:13 pm

but you’re right

fiorina moved up and they’ve served their purpose

happyfeet (831175) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:15 pm

I think the air has been sucked out of the room for Cruz, Rubio, and Walker, etc.
I hope they can hang in there longer, though.
I don’t want Trump, and I’m not convinced I want Fiorina
they keep giving trump air time hoping he shoots himself, I guess,
but that means little exposure for the others.

I think Carson’s view on afghanistan will make many think thrice

I didn’t listen to much of it, and what i did largely was disheartening,
but i liked what I heard jindahl say about SCOTUS appointees

MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:41 pm

For as much as we don’t want the DC crowd,
I’m not sure I want a business exec as CIC, either.

MD in Philly (f9371b) — 9/17/2015 @ 6:44 pm

You have to realize though that Bush, Kasich, Christie, Pataki and Graham are all the same person, eGOP-man, who has 16%.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:00 pm

Rand and everyone at the kid’s table needs to go home now. Not that Santorum will — he’s still got souls to save. Huck ought to get out too and go back to Fox.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:00 pm

Soon, it will devolve to 4 GOP wings:

The helter-skelter wing: Trump
The tea party wing: Fiorina-Cruz-Walker
The eGOP wing: Bush-Kasich-Christie
The utility VP wing: Rubio

Not sure there’s room for the straight evangelical wing. Huck and Rick poll 3% between them.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:06 pm

And look at that. I keep forgetting Ben Carson.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:08 pm

Rayciss!

Gazzer (8d1b28) — 9/17/2015 @ 7:18 pm

Who wouldn’t look good compared to Trump? It’s still the opening acts. Or the preliminary bouts. Or the sideshow outside the big tent might be more accurate. Sooner or later, we’ll get down to the serious candidates — Bush and Walker. I hope it’s Walker, and sooner rather than later so the GOP can focus on the real opponent, Hillary.

nk (dbc370) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:04 pm

nk, I like Walker a great deal. Efforts have been made to make him radioactive, with jeers and lies and the like. But he is tough. Who do you think should be the running mate?

I REALLY want to see Cruz on the Supreme Court. My guess is that the Republican Senate would agree!

Simon Jester (102cd5) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:12 pm

My guess is that the Republican Senate would agree!

Not so sure about that. Oh, they’d like to see him gone, but more as ambassador to Mongolia. He has, in the view of the establishment, too cramped a view of Congress’ power. As if there were some kinds of limits on federal law or something.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:22 pm

I think this guy nails it as far as the winners of the debate:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/s/73159/winners-losers-from-wednesdays-republican-presidential-debate?mref=home

1) Carly

2) Rubio

3) Christie

Like others mentioned in the previous thread, I thought Carly’s only weakness was that she was a little too serious. She needs to lighten up a bit and smile sometimes. Yes, I’m nitpicking, and we ask a lot of these candidates to fire on every cylinder, but that’s the game these days.

Cruz is a little too pointed in his approach, and too full of conviction. I can totally see how Patterico likes him, because Cruz is a great debater, and would probably rock a courtroom. However, likeability is more important in an election than a pointed argument, so I don’t think Cruz can win over the average voter.

I thought Rand Paul was more tame last night, and less bitter than last time. I like his stances regarding Iraq, Syria, and the futile war on drugs. (He is right that Syrian migrants should go to Saudi Arabia and the other gulf states, not to the West.) But, Republicans are still stuck on kicking ass in the middle east and the drug war, so Paul probably won’t gain traction.

A Rubio-Fiorina ticket could be the path to victory for Republicans. Rubio is young and Hispanic. The Democrat nominee would be old and white (not that there’s anything wrong with that, but again–the game). If it’s Hillary, Fiorina could criticize her without being sexist.

norcal (324d89) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:22 pm

VP for Walker? No preference. If Palin was a lesson that should have already been known, it’s that the presidential candidate has to appeal to the electorate his own self on his own merits, and not rely on the coattails (or petticoats) of his VP whose job should be to have his back during the campaign. To guard the flanks and beat back the harassing skirmishes while he conducts the frontal assault, and not to have any vulnerabilities of his own.

nk (dbc370) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:33 pm

I don’t think the media could do to Carly what they did to Palin. Carly would shred them. She rendered Chris Matthews speechless.

norcal (324d89) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:49 pm

I agree, norcal.

nk (dbc370) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:52 pm

As we now know, they had given up on that campaign by the end of september, so she was the scapegoat, for the surrender.

narciso (ee1f88) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:54 pm

I know the press wants me to not like CF, and think she is not accomplished.

Then I look at the people they want me to like.

Hmmm.

I like that CF fights.

Simon Jester (102cd5) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:55 pm

nk,

It’s not that I think Rubio is better than Fiorina. I just think he would pull in more Hispanic voters if he was at the top of the ticket.

I would rather win with a less than perfect candidate than lose with a perfect candidate.

norcal (324d89) — 9/17/2015 @ 8:58 pm

There are a lot more female voters than Hispanics; Carly is the better choice.

ThOR (a52560) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:18 pm

Thor,

The female voters who are all about girl power will vote for Hillary. The Dems don’t have a Hispanic candidate. They might have a VP nominee who is Hispanic, but Rubio at the top of the ticket would beat that.

norcal (324d89) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:23 pm

Carly Fiorina was encouraged to run by her former boss Mitt Romeny in order to divide the vote and help Bush.

She worked for McCain in 2007-08, ran (and lost) a Senate race in 2010, and worked for Romney in 2012. Fiorina is a loser, nothing more.

Her purpose is to aid the establishment in getting Bush the nomination.

DN (78a7ed) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:26 pm

Hillary is losing her base of female voters, so who will they turn to? Voting with their vaginas but not a chance they’d opt for the other female running. Litmus test fail and all that. Their disingenuousness should shame them.

Dana (86e864) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:27 pm

To the extent that VPs are traditionally thought of as attack dogs, I think she would make an excellent attack dog. Not as convinced about the top of the ticket placement.

Patterico (fecd9b) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:29 pm

Not as convinced about the top of the ticket placement.

Patterico, do you mean you are not sure Carly would be the best for the top of the ticket?

norcal (324d89) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:34 pm

VP for Walker? No preference,

I hate to say this — man, I totally hate to say this — but if the nominee is someone like Carly (or even Walker or Bush or — cough, cough — Trump) does he (or she) need an “experienced Washington hand” as a VP? I mean, when is the last time that someone became President without having a DC insider on the ticket?

JVW (ba78f9) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:42 pm

Patterico, do you mean you are not sure Carly would be the best for the top of the ticket?

Right. Actually I would say I’m pretty sure she’s not. I was just trying to be more polite.

Patterico (fecd9b) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:46 pm

I was thinking the same thing, JVW. In recent memory we have had DC/DC pairs, but governors have been governor/DC. Not necessarily from Congress, though. Bush 41 and Cheney made their bones in cabinet positions.

nk (dbc370) — 9/17/2015 @ 9:54 pm

The eGOP wing: Bush-Kasich-Christie

That’s the wing of the party that I want to see go home, now, pronto!

Voting with their vaginas

If their vaginas were conservative or rightwing, they’d chop them out and vote with something else.

Mark (17f1a2) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:07 pm

I just have to share a funny from today. We have a philosopher-janitor who likes to talk politics. He comes to my office every day to empty the trash, and we usually have a brief discussion. He was talking about Trump (he calls him Rump). He noticed all the faces and physical antics of Trump during the debate. He said Trump is like a Batman villain. Put a hat or some makeup on him and he’s the Penguin, Joker, Riddler, you name it!

norcal (324d89) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:14 pm

Bush 41 and Cheney made their bones in cabinet positions.

Right. Both served in Congress, then both mucked around in the Federal leviathan afterwards, Bush in the CIA and Cheney with cabinet-level positions. Tell me the last time that two Washington neophytes were elected: Wilson & Marshall?

JVW (ba78f9) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:20 pm

The tea party wing: Fiorina-Cruz-Walker

I was at the original tea party rally. Tom McClintock was there. Fiorina wasn’t. She was too busy making light of Barbara Boxer’s hairstyle.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 9/17/2015 @ 10:49 pm

Why would anyone want the inexperienced and gullible Rubio atop the ticket and not use Fiorina — a woman who has made all of her mistakes — to jam the Democrat’s “first woman president” meme down their sexist throats?

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/18/2015 @ 1:59 am

THE original Tea Party rally? Seems to me there were a lot of them.

And while I like McClintock’s politics, he carpet-bagged a safe NoCal district just to stay in office. I’m pretty sure, except for some non-profit sinecures between elections, he’s never had a real job. Fiorina at least tried to stop Boxer. Are we even going to field a candidate for Senate in 2016?

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/18/2015 @ 2:05 am

Trump is like a Batman villain.

Only if Adam West plays Kasich and Bert Ward plays Rubio.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/18/2015 @ 2:07 am

Her purpose is to aid the establishment in getting Bush the nomination.

Yeah, and fire can’t melt steel.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/18/2015 @ 2:08 am

Datum in evidence that Hugh H. Is a myopic goon:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/16/gop-estab-debate-panelist-hugh-hewitt-very-confident-rubio-walker-kasich-will-surge-in-polls/

Walker just hasn’t found the depth yet to roll to victory on an early lead. I am not feeling this quiet surge for Carson. His political instincts are rudimentary.

DNF (42bbf3) — 9/18/2015 @ 4:05 am

39. Seems a sound summary to me.

DNF (42bbf3) — 9/18/2015 @ 4:08 am

It seemed clear when they entered the race that both Fiorina and Graham, and possibly even Kasich, were aiming at a VP slot. But politics is a very strange business, and Trump’s entry has distorted the normal process of sorting-out.

Ironically, those most affected will be those Trump backers who want an “anti-establishment” candidate (they seem to be much like hippies, anyone who doesn’t do things the way they want is “the establishment”). Bush has the money to stick around into March, maybe Fiorina gets enough now too. Trump won’t be the nominee, but he has sucked enough oxygen from the coverage to snuff out the hopes of the other “outsider” candidates.

Estragon (ada867) — 9/18/2015 @ 4:22 am

44. I’m not so sure its the outsiders who suffer most on Trump’s account.

The RNC and its taskmasters.

DNF (42bbf3) — 9/18/2015 @ 4:37 am

and yet at the end of the day, Trump is probably doing more to help the Republican Party than anyone has in at least a decade. There are 10’s of million of people following the debates who otherwise would not, and the younger Republicans running are getting their faces and names known to them.

seeRpea (e32c56) — 9/18/2015 @ 4:40 am

Shapiro’s report card seem’s even-handed:

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2015/09/17/second-debate-grades-carly-fiorina-soars-jeb-bush-tanks/

Romany had a fine debate versus a wasted Crack Whore, but I see no chance any of the estabishment faves will do as well. Roobs is weak brew and he lies.

DNF (42bbf3) — 9/18/2015 @ 5:06 am

Wanting Donald humiliated is the other side of the coin of wanting the Elite Republicans to get praise.

Sorry but a guy who is doing the dirty work that benefits one should not be treated as such by those who claim they support what he is accomplishing. And make no doubt Donald is a tool that can be used to destroy the elites in the Party and their culture of elitism.

So while I don’t want him for POTUS or the nomination, he is better than Kasich, Bush, Christie, Rand, Carson are Republicans with neither the guts or personality to change the Party AND WIN. So in as much as I like them you need a brawler to change the Culture of Republicanism.

Rubio has a chance. Cruz. Fiorina. Trump — at least they have a chance.

Because our nominee must be able to 1) Win and 2) Change the Culture of the Republican Party Elite from Country Clubers to Working Class Grinders unafraid of the fight.

Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d) — 9/18/2015 @ 6:04 am

Electing people with DC Experience = Crap we have now. So count me out with the imbeciles who think DC experience matters in terms of GOOD RESULTS. Or as Einstein alluded to keep doing the same thing then keep expecting the same results.

And the love affair with Cruz (and I donated) is misplaced. His appeal to the camera is a “D” and he comes off 100% scripted in spite of his technical positions on issues (A+). In addition, he is a Harvard douche which means once in power he will become John Roberts like. Tired of electing fugazy Harvard Conservatives.

Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d) — 9/18/2015 @ 6:12 am

well I wouldn’t write him off, he has been a tribute, in the quarter quells,

narciso (ee1f88) — 9/18/2015 @ 6:17 am

As I predicted Trump went Poof. He just couldn’t keep his mouth shut nor be an adult. He started out insulting Ron Paul at the debate. Childish and unnecessary. He made stupid comments about Fiorina’s looks, and now he is running his mouth about how “bad” a CEO Fiorina was. Childish and shows jealousy. Plus, he should be attacking Hildabeast, not Carly. They all should!

Trump reached his High Water Mark when he walked in to the debate. He exited on the downward slide. Thank you Donald for giving the GOP at least one item of identity, illegal immigration. Let’s hope the stupid bastards don’t screw it up or allow the socialists to twist it as a referendum against all immigration (which these clowns are apt to do).

Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 9/18/2015 @ 6:17 am

broadcasting through the tesseract,*

http://theweek.com/articles/577492/gop-debates-bizarro-world

*interstellar reference,

narciso (ee1f88) — 9/18/2015 @ 6:24 am

the wider context,

ttp://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/managers-vs-managed_1028522.html#

narciso (ee1f88) — 9/18/2015 @ 6:52 am

The original Tea Party tour started in Sacramento, worked it’s way across the country, and ended in Washington.

I live in Sacramento, so it was luck of the draw. I have pictures.

while I like McClintock’s politics, he carpet-bagged a safe NoCal district just to stay in office
What districts aren’t gerrymandered? The Dem media did a Tom Delay hatchet job on the former occupant, John Doolittle. If McClintock hadn’t stepped in, we might have had that rarist of rare things, a party change in a congressional district seat from California. In the wrong direction.

papertiger (c2d6da) — 9/18/2015 @ 7:13 am

She worked in the CIA under old man Bush. This is enough for me to think she is a Rove plant.
Cruz/West

mg (31009b) — 9/18/2015 @ 5:20 pm

Happiness is the maximum agreement of reality and desire. — Joseph Stalin*

Be less picky and you’ll be more happy.

*(Not really. Martin Cruz Smith just made it up.)

nk (dbc370) — 9/18/2015 @ 5:38 pm

OT alert
The clock which features in the Irving supposed hoax bomb is apparently itself a hoax
http://blogs.artvoice.com/techvoice/2015/09/17/reverse-engineering-ahmed-mohameds-clock-and-ourselves/

kishnevi (28fa9f) — 9/18/2015 @ 6:33 pm

Good-by Carly
http://townhall.com/columnists/johnhawkins/2015/09/19/the-conservative-case-against-carly-fiorina-n2053948

mg (31009b) — 9/19/2015 @ 3:34 am

CNN/ORC post-debate poll

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2015/images/09/20/rel10a.pdf

Among Republicans or GOP leaners:

(fritst choice/second choice)
Trump 24/8
Fiorina 15/11
Carson 14/19
Rubio 11/13
Bush 9/11
Cruz 6/5
Huckabee 6/8
Paul 4/3
Christie 3/6
Kasich 2/1
Santorum 1/1
Walker 0/2
Graham 0/1
Pataki 0/1
Gilmore 0/0
Jindal 0/0

Among Republics/leaners who watched debate:

“Who won?”

Fiorina 52%
Rubio 14
Trump 11
Christie 6
Carson 3
Cruz 3

“Who lost?”

Trump 31%
Paul 22
Bush 9
Huckabee 7
Walker 6
Carson 4
Christie 3

The GOP voters also think that Trump can best handle the e3conomy, illegals and foreign policy, while Carson leads on social issues.

Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/20/2015 @ 9:03 am

9/17/2015

Poll: Fiorina Neck and Neck with Trump Among Debate Watchers

59 Responses to “Poll: Fiorina Neck and Neck with Trump Among Debate Watchers”

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