Hamid Karzai: Al Qaeda a “Myth”
As we remember the events of September 11, 2001, let us also remember that, according to Hamid Karzai, it wasn’t Al Qaeda’s fault:
Hamid Karzai, the former president of Afghanistan, has questioned the existence of al-Qaida, and denied that the 9/11 terror attacks which killed nearly 3,000 people were planned in Afghanistan.
On the eve of the anniversary of the 2001 attacks, Karzai, who left office last year after 12 years, used an interview with al Jazeera to express his doubt that the terrorist group led by the late Osama bin Laden was responsible for the operation which prompted the invasion of Afghanistan.
“I don’t know if al-Qaida existed and I don’t know if they exist,” said Karzai. “I have not seen them and I’ve not had any report about them, any report that would indicate that al-Qaida is operating in Afghanistan. It is for me a myth […] For us, they don’t exist.”
I have listened to consistent anti-war types who say: hey, Afghanistan simply asked for evidence of who was behind 9/11, and we refused to provide it.
If I have learned one thing in my life, it is this: you cannot persuade people who cannot be persuaded.
This is the mindset we were facing. No matter how overwhelming our proof, it would have been rejected as insufficient. Karzai’s little rant simply reinforces that obvious point.
well he was on Al Jazeera, which removes all doubt, how many times did these ‘non existent’ terrorists go after him,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/11/2015 @ 7:37 amsurely there’s a noob drone pilot or two what could use a practice target
happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/11/2015 @ 7:49 amThat’s how I feel trying to persuade some folks on this blog that not voting for whatever a$$hole is on the Republican ticket will only accomplish letting the dempcrap socialists win!
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:11 amThe greatest feat the devil accomplished was to convince people that he didn’t exist. This guy is pulling a George Costanza; “It never happened.”
felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:15 amhe never gave up his dyncorp protection detail, I guess he thought they were real then,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:15 amFirst off Karzai dresses like a damn idiot. I have no respect for bad dressers. Secondly, he’s a moslem terrorist himself in my opinion and I hope they whack him. And shove that ridiculous hat where the sun don’t shine.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:23 amYou can’t reason someone out of a position that they weren’t reasoned into in the first place.
If anyone is interested in the origins and background to the attacks, they should read The Looming Tower, By Lawrence Wright.
Tangentially related tonight, ESPN “30 for 30” is running a documentary tonight on George Bush’s first pitch during the World Series game in New York in October 2001. That was quite a moment for some of us.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:23 amKarzai knows full well, who is after him, he doesn’t want to meet the fate of Shaj Shuja, the Afghan proxy from the first war there,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:25 amCarlitos, I am surprised how few people have read “The Looming Tower.” Because Hugh Hewitt pushes it, I have heard some people call it “right wing crazy writing.”
Sigh.
It’s getting weird. Sort of like Weimar Germany, and that “Jewish science” business.
Wright’s book is important, today of all days. Thanks for reminding folks.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:28 amScheuer, a UBL fan, was very critical of ‘the Looming Tower’ in part because it showed what a screw up he was during his time in Afghanistan,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:32 amWell, we’re still blaming the Japanese for Pearl Harbor, when anyone who looks at the real evidence knows it was the Germans. John Belushi knew; that’s why they killed him.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:48 amThe Karzai clan are nothing more than scum-sucking opium peddlers. How do we hook up with creatures like those even as our puppets?
nk (dbc370) — 9/11/2015 @ 9:12 amWe miss you Ace.
sickofrinos (31009b) — 9/11/2015 @ 9:12 amYou would be happy to know your granddaughter resembles your lovely wife.
God Bless
There are none so blind as those who will not to see, none so deaf as those who will not to hear.
…
And when you finally open your eyes and ears, and discover the consequences of that, you want to close them again, but that doesn’t help at all. The bell, having been rung, echos in your soul forever.
htom (4ca1fa) — 9/11/2015 @ 9:16 amDenial is simply a defense mechanism of the human psyche, of proles and potentates, alike. We all use it, to some extent. I see little evidence that pols like Karzai are more likely to be honest than common men. I like felipe’s George Costanza reference because it emphasizes what a universal foible this is. It occurs to me that it is a mechanism you, Patterico, must see in your work on a daily basis.
The problem comes from the cultural embrace of the notion that truth is relative – we have given the George Costanzas of this world a seat at the table. In such a world, there is no reason to believe that “at the length truth will out.” It will not will out unless all men of good conscience, but especially our leaders, are willing to stand up for truth. This is precisely the reason Rev. Hoagie is wrong; candidates like Romney and McCain, who refuse to forcefully stand up for the truth, are nothing more than fellow travelers and do not deserve our vote. Just as Patterico is doing in this post, we all must stand up for truth.
ThOR (a52560) — 9/11/2015 @ 9:46 amDoes he mean:
There is no al Qaeda – it’s just Pakistan’s military intelligence agency?
Sammy Finkelman (643dcd) — 9/11/2015 @ 10:12 ami’d like to point out that “Afghanistan” itself is a myth, conjured up in the colonial days…
we should have disbanded the country.
redc1c4 (34e91b) — 9/11/2015 @ 10:17 amThe Karzai clan are nothing more than scum-sucking opium peddlers. How do we hook up with creatures like those even as our puppets?
nk (dbc370) — 9/11/2015 @ 9:12 am
You are right, sir. From now on we’ll just deal with nice people.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/11/2015 @ 10:51 amIt was a choice between those scum-sucking opium peddlers and another group of scum-sucking opium peddlers.
Rarely are dictatorships the cause of a third world country’s problems, they’re more often a symptom.
egd (1ad898) — 9/11/2015 @ 10:54 amthe administration, did try to topple him, back in 2009, and was eager to negotiate with the Taliban, but this beggers belief,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/11/2015 @ 10:55 amKarzai is playing for the public back home, not that he will get much from it. If the facts do not match what he wsnts then he invents new facts.
This is alas not confined to Aghans or politicians.
kishnevi (28fa9f) — 9/11/2015 @ 11:49 amyes, but this level of denial is still extraordinary,
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/11/2015 @ 11:55 amGreat stuff, htom.
sickofrinos (31009b) — 9/11/2015 @ 12:32 pmReally ThOR? We are not voting for Romney or McCain in case you haven’t noticed. But if we had Obama wouldn’t be the damn President and the country wouldn’t be in as bad shape! So all you guys who want “truth” and refused to vote for Romney or McCain because they couldn’t pass your dumbass purity test gave that commie dumbass Obama the WH. Thanks a lot oh truthful and pure ones! If you want to stand up for truth ThOR how’s this? The truth is if we don’t elect a Republican candidate to the Presidency even with flaws then Hillary! wins. How’s that for truth? Want another Obama, or WORSE? Don’t vote if the Repub candidate doesn’t measure up to whatever truth you believe greater than Victory and saving our Republic. I don’t believe you guys.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 9/11/2015 @ 1:13 pmYou are right, sir. From now on we’ll just deal with nice people.
felipe (b5e0f4) — 9/11/2015 @ 10:51 am
Promises, promises.
nk (dbc370) — 9/11/2015 @ 1:34 pmHuman existence is dependent on efficiently functioning feedback processes. There is no better feedback mechanism in politics than the ballot. When voters refuse to vote strategically, the whole process breaks down. The current election cycle is a great example. We can thank Republicans who dutifully voted for Romney for the rise of Trump. Ask yourself, would anyone ever shop at Amazon if the delivery of bought and paid for products was at the whim of Steve Besos? I don’t buy goods from vendors who don’t deliver and I don’t vote for politicians who don’t deliver. To do otherwise is to be complicit.
ThOR (a52560) — 9/11/2015 @ 1:42 pmThere is no better feedback mechanism in politics than the ballot.
That is so 20th century…
2015 version is fundraising and donors. Which is the real problem you point to. Politicos look to the money, not the voters.
In part, that is why Trump is such a threat. He is his own donor and therefore no fedback and restraint when he goes into loose cannon mode.
kishnevi (31ba4e) — 9/11/2015 @ 1:56 pmThOR, did you vote for Romney and McCain? If yes then why the complaint? They lost and hurt no one. If no then in effect you voted for Obama and he delivered! Exactly what you deserved. You do remember him promising to “fundamentally change” America? Perhaps you shouldn’t vote until you understand the important difference between a book from Amazon and selecting the leader of the free world and our dying Republic. Hint: One is much, much more important. And if you believe that any politician is up there to “deliver” only to ThOR your ego is on par with Obama’s.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 9/11/2015 @ 2:21 pmI get your point, kishnevi, but do you honestly believe that money in politics restrains politicians? I think there’s a much stronger connection between money in politics and duplicity. There are prominent Republicans on the national stage who, after years of public exposure, I still wonder and worry about. After about 10 minutes I stopped wondering about Trump, though I still worry. An Etch-A-Sketch man, he is not.
ThOR (a52560) — 9/11/2015 @ 2:22 pm@Thor, Rev, kishnevi:
“It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…”
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 9/11/2015 @ 2:26 pm“You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?”
“No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.”
“Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.”
“I did,” said Ford. “It is.”
“So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t people get rid of the lizards?”
“It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.”
“You mean they actually vote for the lizards?”
“Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.”
“But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?”
“Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, “the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?”
“What?”
“I said,” said Ford, with an increasing air of urgency creeping into his voice, “have you got any gin?”
“I’ll look. Tell me about the lizards.”
Ford shrugged again.
“Some people say that the lizards are the best thing that ever happened to them,” he said. “They’re completely wrong of course, completely and utterly wrong, but someone’s got to say it.”
Hoagie, you seem to be arguing that Presidents are to be held to lower standards than the guy I buy power tools and office products from. On that, we will have to agree to disagree.
ThOR (a52560) — 9/11/2015 @ 2:27 pmthat money in politics restrains politicians?
More precisely, lack of money. Do not say what the donors like, you get no money unless you change what you say or find new donors.
I won’t go into the possibility that politics is duplicity. You are a wise man, a word to the wise,etc.
You do not have to wonder about Trump because he does not need the donors. The feedback mechanism does not work in his case.
kishnevi (9cb6b5) — 9/11/2015 @ 2:30 pmGabriel there is much wisdom in that book.
kishnevi (31ba4e) — 9/11/2015 @ 2:33 pmYou are right, sir. From now on we’ll just deal with nice people.
The problem with Karzai wasn’t that he wasn’t a nice guy, the problem was he wasn’t (or thought he wasn’t) totally dependent on us. So he was a bad choice for a puppet.
But his was just a symptom of a larger problem of totally unrealistic objectives. In my view the war in Afghanistan should have been frankly punitive, a reprisal for 911. We should have decided how much death and destruction was adequate punishment, inflicted it and left. But if for some reason we decided it was a good idea to stay involved our objectives should have been limited to preventing future attacks on us. Otherwise we should have mostly left the locals alone regardless of how repulsive we found their customs.
It is amazing how divorced the foreign policy establishment in DC is from reality. Bush overthrows Hussein thinking this will magically transform Iraq into a liberal democracy. Then Obama does the same thing in Libya with similar results. But there is no evidence that either party has learned anything from this.
James B. Shearer (e8cef7) — 9/11/2015 @ 2:35 pm#9… an excellent book, Simon. It was hard to put down and not read cover-to-cover in one sitting. I took Hewitt’s recommendation and read it and was glad I did.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/11/2015 @ 3:53 pmKarzai’s a pimp.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/11/2015 @ 3:56 pmThe anti-war types are often of the pro-choice or selective variety. Their better judgment and personal integrity is a myth.
n.n (40a3a0) — 9/11/2015 @ 4:14 pm#33: James, the war in Afghanistan was fought by about 150 CIA and special ops types riding horses and calling in airstrikes by satellite phones to support Karzai and his allies. This puts us under some level of moral obligation to support the new government, since our operatives were promising them who knows what. We managed to flub the follow up, but the collapse was a slow-motion affair until the current administration decided to demonstrate how the war should have been lost in the first place.
Other than betraying a bunch of third world warlords who thought we were allies, I suppose your idea of a punitive war is sound. It just would have taken a thousand times the level of our involvement. And a couple of years rolling armored brigades thru those villages that were accessible from the major valleys. Or would air power and napalm suit your purpose?
bobathome (279337) — 9/11/2015 @ 5:32 pmHis handler was as ctually kicked up the ladder, to head regional operations.
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/11/2015 @ 5:47 pmThe russians have their proxy in the caucasus, so did the brits in northern Ireland.
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/11/2015 @ 5:50 pm37.#33: James, the war in Afghanistan was fought by about 150 CIA and special ops types riding horses and calling in airstrikes by satellite phones to support Karzai and his allies. This puts us under some level of moral obligation to support the new government, since our operatives were promising them who knows what. We managed to flub the follow up, but the collapse was a slow-motion affair until the current administration decided to demonstrate how the war should have been lost in the first place.
The Taliban were mostly Pashtun, the largest and traditionally dominant ethnic group in Afghanistan. The Northern Alliance (or United Front) was a coalition of smaller ethnic groups. At the time of 911 the Northern Alliance was fighting a defensive war against the Taliban and had retained control of a portion of Northern Afghanistan. After 911 with as you say US air support it was able to turn the tables and defeat the Taliban armies. At this point Karzai was installed as President. It is unclear to me why since he was an ethnic Pashtun who does not appear to have been an important military commander in the Northern Alliance. In any case he was a poor choice for a puppet because as an ethnic Pashtun he was more inclined to believe he did not need American support than a member of a minority ethnic group would have been.
Other than betraying a bunch of third world warlords who thought we were allies, I suppose your idea of a punitive war is sound. It just would have taken a thousand times the level of our involvement. And a couple of years rolling armored brigades thru those villages that were accessible from the major valleys. Or would air power and napalm suit your purpose?
We weren’t have been betraying anyone, the Northern Alliance were already fighting the Taliban. We could have helped them smash the Taliban as we did and then left without trying to establish some sort of liberal democracy in Afghanistan.
James B. Shearer (e8cef7) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:29 pmwhatever it started out as, afghanistan ended up an expensive failure, which is bad
no two ways around it
by contrast, these days, inexpensive failures are what failmerica calls “a win”
(think m’chelle’s lunch program)
happyfeet (831175) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:34 pmFair enough.
I’ve forgotten. What was the current administration’s reason for surging the Afghanistan force? Wasn’t it something about winning a real victory? Fighting the right war, or something along those lines. It’s been so long since the administration has mentioned this operation that I fear they’ve forgotten we have a few troops still wandering around over there. One of whom is a 2nd cousin-in-law special ops who is one hell of a fighter and who seems to be blessed. He believes he is accomplishing something. And he’s probably right. But you’ll never hear about it.
bobathome (279337) — 9/11/2015 @ 8:58 pmWow. This shyte is easy. Karzai is a stooge and wants to both stay alive and stay in some way relevant. Drone therapy is what he needs. We need to stop focking around and we need to start holding mf’ers accountable. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I know, Captain Mommmy Jeans is going to do NOTHING. He’s a pathetic clown.
Gus (7cc192) — 9/11/2015 @ 11:12 pmBobathome, Obama took 9 and a half months to decide to do HALF of what was necessary. Obama is a clown. Obama doesn’t have the brains, the balls, nor the Patriotism to do what is HISTORICALLY NECESSARY. Hello?????? IRAN DEAL?????
Gus (7cc192) — 9/11/2015 @ 11:14 pmI’ve forgotten. What was the current administration’s reason for surging the Afghanistan force? …
Basically that Afghanistan should be a higher priority than Iraq because the 911 attackers were based in Afghanistan not in Iraq. And that things weren’t going great in Afghanistan. Which were both true but were hard to fix 7 years in. And they didn’t appear to have any more realistic plans than Bush did.
James B. Shearer (fe81ca) — 9/12/2015 @ 9:13 amKarzai was a pashtun, a populzai, briefly he had been affiliated with the Taliban till they killed one of his relative’s.
Obama listened to Biden over Petraeus and so he curtailed the surge a year in. Liberal see good wars in the ones not being fought
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/12/2015 @ 9:58 amI hope that “myth” gets ahold of Mr. Karzai and corrects his misunderstanding.
WarEagle82 (44dbd0) — 9/12/2015 @ 8:06 pmhe’s not serious, but this may be one reason he is resentful.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/10/us-hamid-karzai-afghan-elections-robert-gates
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/12/2015 @ 8:19 pm#48: narsico, Karzai is ahead of the odds given that he is an “ally” of the U. S. in a time of domestic U. S. turmoil. Ngo Diem learned the hard way that a Democrat President has bigger fish to fry than a petty tyrant who won’t play ball. The photo is from this wiki article.
bobathome (279337) — 9/12/2015 @ 9:09 pmSo true about a lot of things.
9/11 truthers are going to continue to believe fire can’t melt steel, when that isn’t the point about how much you need to heat a steel structure for it to lose enough strength to remain standing.
The #BlackLivesMatters crowd is going to continue to believe Trayvon Martin who was old enough (but not good enough) to join the military was just a small, scared child, and Michael Brown died surrendering to the cop with his hands up. A #BlackLivesMatters-type actor quit a play about Ferguson that was based solely on the grand jury testimony because it revealed “hands up, don’t shoot” was a lie from the start, and like all #BlackLivesMatter types he preferred to believe the lie.
Apparently a movie is coming out about counterfeit Texas Air National Guard memos that Dan Rather and Mary Mapes tried to use to discredit George Bush. It’s called “Truth,” and stars Robert Redford and Cate Blanchett. Naturally, from the name you can tell it’s a pack of lies. But it confirms all the lies leftists would rather believe rather than face facts.
Indeed, leftists have told me for years that my preference for facts is just a white male heteronormative patriarchal Eurocentric prejudice.
So, yes, people are going to believe what they want to believe. Which is why leftists can never learn any lessons, and Marxism will never die. Bernie Sanders and now the British Labour party are promising people policies that failed everywhere they’ve ever been tried, and it’s popular.
Steve57 (a07e69) — 9/13/2015 @ 1:38 pmSteve, worse yet, the UK tried all this silly stuff right after WWII when Labour gave Winston a lead (Pb) parachute and told him to get lost. Butter was regarded as an elite privilege, so the lefties required all butter, margarine, and lard to be mixed into one inedible slug that was to be fed to everyone, proles as well as aristocrats, in the interest of what would today be called social justice by our cic. Our food stampers take it for granted that they can have butter, if they forego the filet mignon, but that is a different story. (But it would seem to have some bearing on the issue at hand, if you are willing to consider the benefits of prosperity spread large.) At any rate, even the proles in the UK decided that this was pretty silly, and Labour was finally given the boot. How quickly (65 years) they forget. 1984 was written in this period as a reminder of what communists/socialists/community organizers are really offering. I rather doubt that this is required reading in today’s high school AP classes. They probably have the kids watch Brazil figuring that this will be regarded as a failed action flick, and dismiss the entire premise of the movie. Thus inoculating the students to concerns of an all pervasive state.
bobathome (a52abe) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:28 pmYet their edifice, the nhs still stands as a monument from that era.
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:42 pmProbably they would just show the hunger games as a cautionary tale about a gop president.
narciso (ee1f88) — 9/17/2015 @ 5:43 pm