Patterico's Pontifications

9/2/2015

New Planned Parenthood Video: “It Just Fell Out”

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:35 am

[guest post by Dana]

Yet another Planned Parenthood video has been released by the Center for Medical Progress. In this video, Planned Parenthood’s business of organ harvesting fetal baby parts is discussed in graphic terms:



The video features undercover conversations with Dr. Katharine Sheehan, the long-time medical director of Planned Parenthood of the Pacific Southwest until 2013; Perrin Larton, the Procurement Manager for ABR; and Cate Dyer, the CEO of rival fetal tissue procurement company StemExpress.

Sheehan tells actors posing as a new human biologics company that at Planned Parenthood Pacific Southwest, “We have already a relationship with ABR.” Sheehan explains, “We’ve been using them for over 10 years, really a long time, just kind of renegotiated the contract. They’re doing the big collections for government-level collections and things like that.” When one of the actors negotiates, “We return a portion of our fees to the clinics,” Sheehan responds eagerly, “Right, get a toe in and make it, make a pro–alright.”

Perrin Larton, the Procurement Manager at ABR, is shown describing ABR’s fetal tissue harvesting practice to a prospective buyer. “I literally have had women come in and they’ll go in the O.R. and they’re back out in 3 minutes, and I’m going, ‘What’s going on?’ Oh yeah, the fetus was already in the vaginal canal whenever we put her in the stirrups, it just fell out,” she explains of situations where there has been a great enough degree of cervical dilation to procure an intact fetus.

ABR, founded in 1989 by CEO Linda Tracy, charges $340 per second-trimester fetal tissue specimen, yet seems less concerned about tissue quality than other harvesting companies: “Whenever we have a smooth portion of liver, we think that’s good!” says Larton

Unsurprisingly, Sen. Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said this week that there are not enough Republican votes to defund Planned Parenthood as part of a federal spending agreement:

“We just don’t have the votes to get the outcome that we’d like,” McConnell said during an appearance on WYMT. “The way you make a law in this country, the Congress has to pass it and the president has to sign it. The president has made it very clear he’s not going to sign any bill that includes defunding of Planned Parenthood, so that’s another issue that awaits a new president hopefully with a different point of view about Planned Parenthood.”

Well, there are enough votes for a shutdown, but who wants that, right?

–Dana

67 Responses to “New Planned Parenthood Video: “It Just Fell Out””

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. I have a question for the legal minds here. Is the paying of PP abortuary employees by ABR as “advisors” a violation of the Stark law? My exposure to the law as a physician leads me to ask that question.

    On another blog, I have been debating with an ardent PP supporter over the potential lawsuits PP is claiming to be considering filing against CMP for fraud. Such a move seems like folly, other than as a political tactic. It seems to me that the discovery process would be detrimental to PP, and nothing more than legal harassment of CMP. A quick google search reveals the only lawsuut PP has actually filed is for the purpose of preventing release of the video footage of the NAF (National Abortion Federation) convention. The only other info I can find is a bunch of sabre-rattling defamation by PP against CMP, trying to make the claim that CMP is affiliated with some unnamed, nebulous, nefarious organization that allegedly plots to shoot abortionists. Those public statements seem more likely to be libelous than CMP’s videos showing PP haggling over payment for fetal remains.

    I look forward to any legal opinions that are posted in answer. Thanks.

    Pete (6d94b7)

  3. This, from the third link re McConnell: Even if you disagree, do you still welcome that war knowing that he’s in charge of it?

    Dana (86e864)

  4. Who is Mitch backing in 2016?
    Good going Rand on helping Mitch win his last election.

    mg (31009b)

  5. Barbaric

    mg (31009b)

  6. Again, nothing done to these people is immoral.

    Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  7. Anyone know if Mitch McConnell’s FBI file was part of Hillary’s Filegate stash she kept hidden in the White House basement? The dirt she had on Trent Lott saved Slick Willy’s presidency.

    ropelight (2a96ab)

  8. these are getting boring

    i think i might could’ve gotten desensitized

    all in all fetal tissue research is very good for america i think

    maybe the process can be improved here and there but all in all it seems like these people are very professionally and ethically providing a difficult service what helps all americans including for example sick children and orphans

    for all you do stem cell research tissue procurement people this particular bud light chelada is for you in a frosty mug with celery salt on the rim

    don’t let the h8rs get you down kiddos

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  9. Pete, I doubt that it violates the Stark rule. I don’t think it meets either criterion — designated health service* and paid for by federal funds. Under the Hyde Amendment, which was extended to Obamacare by executive order, federal funds can only use be used for an abortion to save the life of the mother, or if the pregnancy is from rape or incest.

    *I did not read the complete list of designated health services but abortion is not in the usual list. Maybe because it’s a moot issue by reason of the Hyde Amendment?

    nk (dbc370)

  10. Murder. No if’s, and’s, or but’s about it.

    HappyFascist, you are evil.

    NJRob (2cbf9c)

  11. And, if we get a republican president like gramnesty, christie, kasich, jeb, et al, they will claim, we need a republican supreme court.

    These guys pretend to be conservative to run and win elections then they turn into pussies.

    Jim (a9b7c7)

  12. i’m not evil i left carrots out for the bunnies this weekend

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  13. winter’s a-comin’

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  14. With seven billion in the world, the rational course is to sterilize people with hereditary illnesses and extirpate the disease from the human genome. Not to use healthy babies and scarce health money to try to cure them and assist them to propagate.

    nk (dbc370)

  15. all in all fetal tissue research is very good for america i think

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/2/2015 @ 7:53 am

    Why is it good for America?

    Gerald A (e1ec12)

  16. The McConnells and Boehners of the a Republican Party are disgracefully weak and timid and afraid of looking bad. Make the president veto efforts to protect the unborn from infanticide and butchery. My God, if the party cannot unite and rally its mass support and fight to defund PP in light of the grusomeness of their practices, then exactly what will phase these half-wits? And why on earth should we support them?

    Dana (c2a627)

  17. cause it’s science Mr. A

    science is what we do after the enlightenment

    it’s just how we roll

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  18. Happyfeet, you seem to be under the impression that after the Enlightenment science became the be all end all to all life’s problems. It didn’t, I assure you. A lot more contributed to the Age of Enlightenment than just science. And just because science has evolved into a larger part of the human existence than it previously occupied does not mean it answers all questions. And the one thing science has shown itself very poor at is defining morality. Morality falls under the venue of theology and philosophy not science or mechanics. Chopping up baby parts may be valid science but it is perverted evil morality. So as the scientist Thomas Edison would say: There’s a better way, Find it!. We cannot afford to turn humanity into little more than bloodthirsty Nazis in the name of science since at that point we have placed life an death in the hands of a few powerful people. That was not what either the Enlightenment nor the promise of America was about.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)


  19. cause it’s science Mr. A

    science is what we do after the enlightenment

    it’s just how we roll
    happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/2/2015 @ 9:53 am

    Dr. Mengele thought he was helping humanity too, happyfeet. And guess what – he used the exact same excuse that the friends of Planned Barrenhood are using today: “butbutbut they would’ve been killed anyway I’m just making the best of a bad situation”

    no one of consequence (325a59)

  20. i think i might could’ve gotten desensitized
    happyfascist, you were never sensitized in the first place as we are all very aware.

    Gazzer (46b071)

  21. y’all are overthinking it

    there’s no reason people should not be free to donate their aborted babies for research

    done and done

    that government governs best and et cetera

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  22. there’s no reason people should not be free to donate their aborted babies for research

    Well, happyfeet, I assume you’re making that rule all the way up until the birth of the nine-month-old unborn child. Tell us: at what point in the birth canal does an unborn human being change from being a non-person with no rights to a person with rights?

    no one of consequence (325a59)

  23. you’re mixing apples and oranges

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  24. Well, maybe I misinterpreted your comment. Are you saying you’d stop this “freedom to donate” at a certain point in a woman’s pregnancy before nine months? If you are, then I’d like you to say when you think an unborn human being becomes a legal person (as in, can’t be treating them like a discarded skin tag).

    no one of consequence (325a59)

  25. there’s no reason people should not be free to donate their aborted babies for research

    Or for delicious baby tacos.

    nk (dbc370)

  26. the status quo is fine whatever it is I think

    if a woman can have an abortion legally then she should also be free to donate her aborted baby for research

    this is not difficult

    if she is unlegal to have an abortion and has one anyway then she should be severely punished to where she learns he lesson

    i think scientologists in particular like to make afterbirth tacos but this guy did it just for giggles

    effing weirdo

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  27. *her* lesson I mean

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  28. happyfascist does not argue in good faith. It confessed as much in a little seen response to a question from DRJ.
    You have strong opinions (on subjects like SSM and abortion) but you seem to have problems grasping that some people may have other opinions, happyfeet. You don’t have to accept them as your own but it seems to me that an intelligent person could grasp other opinions and discuss them hypothetically — as if they were valid — even if you disagree. Why can’t you do that?
    DRJ (1dff03) — 8/23/2015 @ 6:31 pm


    Why can’t you do that?

    it’s a choice
    happyfeet (831175) — 8/23/2015 @ 6:32 pm

    Gazzer (46b071)

  29. Mr. Gazzer i do too argue in good faith plus I’m pretty gosh darn consistent unlike some people (inconsistent people)

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  30. if a woman can have an abortion legally then she should also be free to donate her aborted baby for research

    She’s not having a legal abortion.

    PP is murdering newborn children and selling their organs to researchers. Not fetuses. Not “products of conception.” Not unborn children. A child is killed after exiting the woman’s body. Even abortion advocates acknowledge, at least before these videos came out, that these were human beings.

    And taxpayers are forced to support this barbarity.

    egd (1ad898)

  31. that makes no sense

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  32. but yes yes tax monies should not go to planned parenthood

    but i gotta tell you

    if Team R can defund Planned Parenthood then they need to get cracking on a whole crapload of other defundings as well, many of which should have a much much higher priority i think

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  33. cause it’s science Mr. A

    science is what we do after the enlightenment

    it’s just how we roll

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/2/2015 @ 9:53 am

    What I’m asking is what has been the actual benefits of fetal tissue research?

    Gerald A (e1ec12)

  34. 16, Dana
    It’s frightening.

    mg (31009b)

  35. Mr. A learning about fetal tissue cells is how we can make it to where we don’t need them no mores someday

    and what i ask you is gained if we abolish the fetal tissue research?

    nothing!

    it won’t save no lil babies

    that’s just a total misread of the cause and effect dynamics what pertain to this situation

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  36. The problem is this forum lacks a good, serious-minded defender of PP and late-term abortions, meaning someone who doesn’t post like a flame-baiter and troll (hey, happyfeet!).

    Beyond that, I wonder how many leftists and rightists overlap in terms of their bringing an Ebenezer-Scrooge mentality and attitude to the issue of abortions (“If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population!”). But Charles Dickens’ famous character presumably was cynical about and disdainful of already-born humans and not human fetuses.

    However, when I think of a real-life, fanatical, cunning, murderous version of Scrooge, Adolph Hitler, and his being a big fan of animal rights and a vegan diet — which is generally the province of liberals — I think of the bloodthirstiness of the left far more than the ruthlessness of the “let them eat cake” right.

    Mark (dc566c)

  37. that makes no sense

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/2/2015 @ 1:18 pm

    What “it” do you think they are referring to?

    Where do you think it “fell out” of?

    These women aren’t being given abortificants. So what do you think the status of “it” is when it “fell out”: alive or dead?

    Egd (1ad898)

  38. it’s kinda like that cat in that box I guess

    happyfeet (f6e814)

  39. “it’s kinda like that cat in that box I guess”

    If I could possibly take you seriously, I might think you were alluding to Schrodinger. But I realize that you meant to say “Cat in the hat.” which is your speed.

    felipe (56556d)

  40. I cannot reply on a train

    happyfeet (f6e814)

  41. As i said upthread…

    happyfascist does not argue in good faith. It confessed as much in a little seen response to a question from DRJ.
    You have strong opinions (on subjects like SSM and abortion) but you seem to have problems grasping that some people may have other opinions, happyfeet. You don’t have to accept them as your own but it seems to me that an intelligent person could grasp other opinions and discuss them hypothetically — as if they were valid — even if you disagree. Why can’t you do that?
    DRJ (1dff03) — 8/23/2015 @ 6:31 pm

    Why can’t you do that?

    it’s a choice
    happyfeet (831175) — 8/23/2015 @ 6:32 pm
    Gazzer (46b071) — 9/2/2015 @ 11:32 am

    Gazzer (46b071)

  42. I know, Gazzer. that is two stakes through the heart of any “normal” vampire. This’un’s an “abby-normal” one.

    felipe (56556d)

  43. Still, “no man is a beast.” So there is hope for HF.

    felipe (56556d)

  44. i d not belieber in the perfectability of this most fallen of whirl’s

    i believe the best we can do is let each man and woman steer his ship by his own stars

    scientists we let them study moms we let them decide their season and men everywhere we let them breath the air of the freedom

    and the pikachu stands alone

    happyfeet (831175)

  45. i *do* not belieber i mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  46. Confess that you are a baby and we will torture, abort, harvest, and sell your tissue, organs, and body.

    Deny that you are a baby and we will torture, abort, harvest, and sell your tissue, organs, and body.

    Silence? Abort the baby!

    The State-established pro-choice cult claims another victim.

    It’s one thing to devalue capital and labor. It’s something altogether worse to debase or destroy the exceptional value of human life. That way lies savagery.

    Who wants to live forever.

    n.n (60df76)

  47. The problem is this forum lacks a good, serious-minded defender of PP and late-term abortions,

    Is that a real possibility?
    There are actually only a limited number of defenses available to PP, and only one germane to abortion: that CMP’s videos are not truly representative of how PP conducts abortions. But given that no one has been fired for misconduct,and no PP person seems to be making such a defense, one has to assume this is how they do abortions, and are fine with it.
    That said, it is still true that CMP filmed “hundreds of hours” of videos (CMP’s phrase) and only plans to release a relatively small amount of it, and the selection and timing ththeis under CMP’s sole control, a general adherence to intellectual integrity demands that some person outside of CMP have access and be in a position to verify the selections are truly representative of the whole. But I take that position in defense of intellectual integrity, not PP. (If PP is not going to make a defense of itself, why should I?)

    There is in fact only one argument against defunding, which is that it will make it harder for women to get actual gynecological care (pap smears, mammograms, etc.) especially in rural counties with large geographical areas, where, unlike where I live, there is not the average of one doctor per city block (or so it seems). But that is a matter which can be determined by actual investigation and an actual program to supply the lack if there is one in truth.

    As for late term abortion, I think only Mr. Feets would defend that here among regular commentators.

    kishnevi (28fa9f)

  48. and what i ask you is gained if we abolish the fetal tissue research?

    nothing!

    it won’t save no lil babies

    i believe the best we can do is let each man and woman steer his ship by his own stars

    happyfeet,

    If fetal tissue researchers didn’t pay all that money for all those babies and their parts, they could be saved. Why don’t you want them to be saved? Why can’t they have equal opportunity to steer their own ships by their own stars? That’s not really fair, is it?

    Dana (86e864)

  49. kishnevi,

    Given that Cate Dyer herself laughed as she told the CMP people that she had seen just about every kind of infection coming out of the clinics, including staph, I’m not buying that PP is *the* place to go for women’s healthcare. At the same time, with all those infectious dangers, PP has the gall to complain that pro-life healthcare centers don’t do a good job in health care for women.

    Dana (86e864)

  50. Dana, I think Mr. Feets has made the point that those babies would have been aborted anyway. The only change was the manner in which they were killed. (The last word there is of course my preferred term, not that of Mr. Feets.) It is a valid point IMO. PP aborts from ideological motives, not just financial.

    Dyers’s remark read to me as if it were referring to abortion clinics in general, not just PP. And I was referring to geographical logistics. Apparently there are places were PP is the only game in town, and where the alternative is an hour or more away, and not necessarily even in the same county, much less the same urban area. At least, so it has been claimed.

    kishnevi (28fa9f)

  51. PP has the gall to complain that pro-life healthcare centers don’t do a good job in health care for women

    You are forgetting that in the ideology of PP, abortion is a sine qua non of good health care. So by PP definition, pro life clinics do not offer good health care.

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  52. Isn’t it true that PP does not perform mammograms. They refer patients to places that do perform them, but they don’t do them at their facilities.

    PatAZ (9d1bb3)

  53. Here’s why there is no need for PP
    file:///C:/Users/Speedy/Pictures/PP%20vs%20private%20clinics.htm

    Gazzer (46b071)

  54. Dammit I screwed it up.

    Gazzer (46b071)

  55. Is that a real possibility?

    I recall a California Republican legislator several years ago — back in the 1990s — on a talk-radio program discussing the pros and cons of abortion with a pro-choice woman activist—and probably dyed-in-wool liberal Democrat. He caught the activist off-guard by not only not opposing her, but saying he thought abortion was a good thing because, to paraphrase, some women were so scroungy they should not have and raise children. Although he didn’t challenge her about keeping abortion legal, his comment nonetheless raised the ire of the woman, causing her to strongly repudiate him.

    20 years later, in today’s era of Obama’s America — in which people are more desensitized and ass-backwards about compassion than ever before — the difference between a pro-choicer (or “pro-choicer”) and a flat-out eugenicist is growing narrower and narrower.

    Mark (dc566c)

  56. PatAZ,

    You’re correct. PP doesn’t do mammograms. It’s a myth perpetuated to make them seem indispensable to women’s healthcare.

    Dana (86e864)

  57. My point at 53, if someone could help me, is that PP is outnumbered about 7-1 by family clinics. In fact, it doesn’t even have an entity in some states at all.

    Gazzer (46b071)

  58. Gazzer, the claim being made is that in some places there are no alternatives.

    kishnevi (9cb6b5)

  59. Well then, how are they the solution. Maybe they are not thee cuz they are not needed?

    Gazzer (46b071)

  60. As for late term abortion, I think only Mr. Feets would defend that here among regular commentators.

    nonono I’m perfectly fine with a compromise where we ban abortion at 20-22 weeks with appropriate exceptions

    so few abortions happen after that anyway, plus rich white people will always be able to have abortions whenever they want cause these laws don’t apply to them

    personally i believe that as science takes its course and we learn more about birth control (especially for men) we’re gonna see a huge shift in the landscape on this whole issue

    If fetal tissue researchers didn’t pay all that money for all those babies and their parts, they could be saved.

    nonono this makes no sense

    these babies were already doomed

    either we let the CMP fanatics force clinics to throw the remains into a medical waste bin and incinerate them (suboptimal solution) or we can let people donate them to scientists who need the tissues for research to where they can learn stuff that might help people (better choice)

    happyfeet (831175)

  61. these babies were already doomed

    either we let the CMP fanatics force clinics to throw the remains into a medical waste bin and incinerate them (suboptimal solution) or we can let people donate them to scientists who need the tissues for research to where they can learn stuff that might help people (better choice)

    happyfeet (831175) — 9/3/2015 @ 3:35 am

    Mengele said the same thing HappyMoloch.

    NJRob (2cbf9c)

  62. i doubt that very much Mr. Rob

    happyfeet (831175)

  63. Mr. A learning about fetal tissue cells is how we can make it to where we don’t need them no mores someday

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 9/2/2015 @ 4:13 pm

    Now you’re making things up.

    Gerald A (e1ec12)

  64. no i’m not Mr. A

    happyfeet (831175)

  65. Despite the long history of using fetal tissue in medicine and research, the practice could be on the way out. Even though it has led to important medical advances in the last several decades, “in the future, the need for fetal tissue will go down because of advances in stem cell [technology] that will take over,” Hyun said.

    […]

    Advances in stem cell therapy, too, could help phase out the practice of collecting cells from fetal tissue.
    Many researchers can now make stem cells by reprogramming skin cells from an adult into a “blank check” stem cell state. These so-called induced pluripotent stem cells can then go on to develop into neurons or any other cell in the body that researchers can grow in labs and study to better understand diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease.

    However, as Hyun explained, research on these stem cells is still in the early stages and scientists need to make sure the neurons or whatever other type of cells they steer the stem cells to become behave like the cells in the body they want them to emulate. So scientists may still grow fetal neuron cells, for example, in a Petri dish alongside stem cell-derived neuron cells as a reference point until they have more confidence in the stem cell technology, said Hyun, who specifically studies the bioethics of stem cell research.

    happyfeet (831175)

  66. You said “learning about fetal tissue cells is how we can make it to where we don’t need them no mores” feets.

    Pluripotent stem cells don’t come from fetal stem cells at all.

    AFAIK there are no medical treatments derived from fetal stem cells other than maybe experimental.

    Gerald A (e1ec12)

  67. you need to read the last paragraph above Mr. A it explains why fetal cells are still part of the process for now

    but does it really matter?

    if scientists want to study fetal issue then they have to get research plans approved and there’s all sorts of checks and balances they have to go through

    it’s all very grown-up and judicious (thank God)

    happyfeet (831175)


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