Two Brave U.S. Marines Foil Terrorist Attack (Update Added)
[guest post by Dana]
Two U.S. Marines are being called heroes tonight for taking down a terrorist armed with a Kalashnikov, a handgun and cartridges on train in France:
The two unarmed servicemen spotted the 26-year-old Moroccan acting suspiciously and heard him trying to arm his weapon in the toilet of the high speed train between Amsterdam and Paris.
The gunman got on the train in Brussels and attempted his attack soon after crossing the French border.
The 26-year-old Moroccan national, who was known to security services, came out of the toilet brandishing the gun and opened fire. Fortunately, two US Marines were nearby and overpowered him before he could massacre passengers.
The suspected terrorist had at least nine full magazines of ammunition holding almost 300 rounds. He was also carrying a knife.
Unfortunately, one of the Marines was shot and is believed to be in a critical condition. It is feared that he was shot in the neck by the gunman.
The terrorist was already known to officials:
French media claim that the suspect was previously known to French security services and was living in Spain. He has already been linked to a number of radical Islamic groups. He was classed, according to FranceInfo.fr as ‘potentially dangerous’.
Amazingly:
Belgian journalist Marin Buxant Tweeted that the US Marines were on leave in Brussels when they spotted the man and followed him on the train. When the suspect went into the toilet, the Marines recognised the sound of a weapon being armed and decided to act immediately.
From the French Interior Minister:
‘Thanks to them we have averted a drama.
‘(The Americans were) particularly courageous and showed extreme bravery in extremely difficult circumstances.’
While French officials claim it’s far too soon to call it a terrorist attack, Belgian Prime Minister Charles Michel, clearly a realistic and rational man, is doing just that, calling it a straight-up terrorist attack.
Spanish newspaper El País says the attacker’s name is Ayoub El Kahzzani, a 26-year-old Moroccan who was known to secret services.
El País reports that Spanish anti-terrorist sources say that he “had residency” in Spain for a year until 2014, when he moved to France. The same sources say he travelled to Syria and returned to France soon after.
From an eyewitness:
I saw the two wounded men being taken off the train by firemen. One had a wound in the neck and the other in the hand. I saw the gunmen and I think he had five Kalashnikov magazines so he could recharge. His rifle had a short handle so it was more compact and he also had a handgun and knives. It could have been carnage if not for the Americans. I saw the gunmen, tied up, lying on the platform. He had blood on his face but didn’t appear to be seriously hurt.
God Bless these two brave Marines and all who wear the uniform. What a wonderful opportunity for President Obama to publicly pay tribute to these heroic Marines and remind the world that the U.S. Marine Corps is the most revered and respected fighting force around. May the president be bursting with pride to be their Commander in Chief.
(h/t VB)
–Dana
UPDATE: Those involved in taking down the suspect were not Marines after all:
US airman Spencer Stone, who on board the train during the attack, spotted the 26-year-old Moroccan acting suspiciously and heard him trying to load his weapon in the toilet.
He was travelling with Oregon National Guard member Alek Skarlatos, 22, who was on leave and travelling through Europe at the time after returning from a tour in Afghanistan.
With the help of their friend Anthony Sadler, from Pittsburg, California, and fellow passenger British IT consultant Chris Norman, they managed to wrestle the attacker to the ground, stopping what could have been a deadly terrorist attack.
And, horribly, this from a passenger:
‘Suddenly, members of the crew ran into the hallway and their faces were pale.’
He said the staff hurried towards their own car on the train and opened it ‘with a special key’ before they locked themselves inside.
Mr Anglade claims he and other passengers banged on the door and shouted at staff to open up, but their cries for help were ignored.
He said: ‘Nobody replied, there was radio silence. It was terrible and unbearable, it was inhumane.
Hello.
Dana (86e864) — 8/21/2015 @ 4:53 pmAmen
JD (3b5483) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:12 pmGod Bless these two brave Marines and all who wear the uniform.
mg (31009b) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:16 pm2nd that.
What a wonderful opportunity for President Obama to publicly pay tribute to these brave soldiers and remind the world once again that the United States Marine Corps is the most respected fighting force there is. Oh that he would be bursting with pride to be their Commander in Chief.
Dana (86e864) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:17 pmDana, I respectfully remind you they’re not soldiers.
Pride of service and all.
And if it were me, I’d just as soon pass on the CinC visiting me in the hospital or showing up for the award ceremony.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:26 pmAmen, Dana. Therefore you know he will hector us on islamaphobia and global warming.
JD (3b5483) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:27 pmMSN online always snubbing the Military, headlined the incident as “2 Americans”
if it happened in DC, it would be right wing extremist subdued on train
EPWJ (ac6e0d) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:31 pmJD, is there a problem?
Marines don’t like to be confused with soldiers.
It’s a fact of life.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:33 pmEPJW,
They’ll snub the military and two males who saved untold lives, but not two women graduating from the Army’s Ranger School.
Dana (86e864) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:34 pmSteve57,
JD was referring to the president hectoring us about Islamaphobia and global warming.
Dana (86e864) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:35 pmThat’s the problem with pronouns, Dana.
I was just curious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pRUGsB1qGY
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:39 pmPeople acting in self-defense at great risk to themselves. Yeah, they are heroes.
Semper fidelis.
n.n (b378dc) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:40 pmTFG would only contact them if they were gay.
Gazzer (feaf20) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:41 pmNot self-defense. In defense of others.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/21/2015 @ 5:47 pmThese brave marines did what the French and Spanish security services are either unable or unwilling to do, at great cost.
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/21/2015 @ 6:20 pmWe may be able to see two Marines in dress blues wearing the Légion d’honneur, the Ordre national du Mérite, or the Médaille d’honneur pour acte de courage et de dévouement. (I’m not at all sure about the DoD process for approving of such awarding and/or wearing, or the French processes.)
I’m sure the Empty Chair will ignore it, or call for more gun laws.
htom (4ca1fa) — 8/21/2015 @ 6:26 pmWiki says it is case by case, and most medals seem to be gilding the resume
kishnevi (91d5c6) — 8/21/2015 @ 6:48 pmhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_foreign_decorations_of_the_United_States_military
I wouldn’t put it past Obama to have the 2 Marines arrested and held for court martial. They crossed and international border in pursuit of a profiled foreign national without authorization, or some similar bogus charge. Such gross miscarriages of justice are exactly the way Obama enjoys thumbing his nose at all that’s good and honorable about America and our brave troops.
ropelight (61d9bf) — 8/21/2015 @ 6:51 pmOn what basis might we think the administration won’t prosecute the Marines for excessive force and ethnic insensitivity? Do we know whether they asked nicely for the Moroccan to stop shooting before assaulting this jihadist? Did they profile him based on his appearance before deciding to act? Did they strike him with their fists, or worse yet kick the SOB? These will all need to be reviewed before the real truth can be known. For every senior officer who is thinking about praising these two, there’s probably ten who look on this as an opportunity to move closer to the CIC by finding fault with their actions.
bobathome (4a2679) — 8/21/2015 @ 6:59 pm19. Maybe. But any one who is capable of that level of nether-end licking is probably already making calculations for 1/21/17.
kishnevi (93670d) — 8/21/2015 @ 7:23 pmOnce more the French can thank America. Our thoughts are with these young Marines
bald01 (f38852) — 8/21/2015 @ 7:46 pmthey should get a refund on their tickets i think
happyfeet (831175) — 8/21/2015 @ 8:03 pmI wonder what set them off to follow him in the first place?
BradnSA (2312b5) — 8/21/2015 @ 8:16 pmAnd here I thought Morocco was one of the saner Muslim countries. Or maybe it is, and that is why this piece of filth left it.
norcal (541872) — 8/21/2015 @ 8:55 pmSo who were kahzannis contacts, we know he didn’t act alone, anymore than the Chattanooga shooter.
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/21/2015 @ 8:58 pmPresident Obama:
Dana (86e864) — 8/21/2015 @ 9:27 pmhe’s just a deeply weird dude, your president
he thinks it’s great when marines end up in critical condition in the hospital stopping a terrorist
then he hands Iran some nukes and says go get your genocide on
pls to explain the nuances
happyfeet (831175) — 8/21/2015 @ 9:32 pmUPDATE:
Injured US Military is USAF Airman and injuries are not critical.
France saying they will award them the Legion Of Merit.
(the highest Award France gives to foreign soldiers.)
They were alerted to the impending attack when they heard him draw back the
jakee308 (c37f85) — 8/21/2015 @ 10:10 pmbolt and load the ak47.
Legion of Merit is an American award, not a French award.
Highest French award is the Order … Legion d’Honnour.
Highest French Honor award is Honor Medal for Courage and Devotion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbons_of_the_French_military_and_civil_awards#Medals_of_Honor<a href
htom (4ca1fa) — 8/21/2015 @ 11:27 pmI may turn out none of these guys were marines.
http://twitchy.com/2015/08/21/pentagon-says-a-u-s-airman-not-u-s-marine-injured-in-french-train-attack-gunman-identified/
I think we need to get off this jag where if someone kicks @## that someone must be a marine or Delta or something.
You just got your @## kicked, Mr. ISIS, by the Oregon National Guard.
Bring it, Beeotch.
Also, maybe we should start a fund where this guy gets a real vacation.
I feel kinda sh&&y this is how it turned out.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/21/2015 @ 11:36 pmThe next time some fool screams, “Prooooooofiling is racist and homophobic and triggering and evil and….” Remember this thwarted Islamic attack.
Of course, the gun control idjits will use this to say it proves we don’t really need guns to stop potential atrocities.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 8/21/2015 @ 11:59 pmMore detail. Apparently not Marines at all:
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-france-gunman-train-americans-20150821-story.html
Kevin M (25bbee) — 8/22/2015 @ 12:57 am***lights match***
Question: Do these two get a participation award simply for being there?
***runs like hell***
Bill H (2a858c) — 8/22/2015 @ 12:59 amYou’re funny, Dana. This is the same skidmark CinC that uses a Marine to hold an umbrella for him during a press conference he just had to hold outside in rainy weather. The same dude who has so little respect for the uniform, he couldn’t even be bothered to learn that a salute he shouldn’t be rendering in the first place isn’t given with a latte in that hand. The same pitiable farce of a President who bows prostrate before foreign leaders.
Sorry Dana, but the only bursting with pride this a**hole is going to be doing will be when he beats Tiger Woods in a friendly round of 18 holes.
Bill H (2a858c) — 8/22/2015 @ 1:12 amDana,
Your link has been updated.
POTUS will have a tough time passing this off as work place violence.
Gerald A 11/2006 (2c96c6) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:11 amAlek Skarlatos. A Greek. From Cephalonia. Also the home of Juan de Fuca (Ioannis Fokas) who explored the Strait of Juan de Fuca and the Olympic Peninsula in the mid-1500s.
No, Ed from SFV, he did not need a gun. Neither did the guys on Flight 93, if you’ll remember.
nk (dbc370) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:53 amReally? If they had guns they may be alive. So apparently “the guys” on flight 93 did need guns.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:09 amAlso sorry to inform you nk, but Alek Skarlatos is from Roseburg, Oregon not Cephalonia. He’s American, not Greek. He’s Air Force, not Marine.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:25 amThey had the “balls” that mattered.
This raghead on the train carried ten magazines full of the artificial ones and they didn’t do him any good.
“A gun without a man is just a worthless hunk of iron, but a man without a gun is still a man.” — Donald Hamilton (or Steve Frazee)
I prefer knives. Most of the time there’s nobody around I want to shoot, but I can always whittle.
nk (dbc370) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:27 amAnd that is the kind of useless information that not only detracts from the story but adds unnecessary confusion to the narrative. IOW, nobody cares about Juan, the Olympic Peninsula or the 1500’s in regard to this story. Keep it short and sweet.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:28 am.
===================================================================
LIES!!! ALL A PACK OF LIES!!!
There are no guns in France, they’ve been outlawed!!
Because, you know… #GUNSENSE!!!!
IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:52 am===================================================================
.
Guess what I’m holding in my hand and I’ll give you a bite.
nk (dbc370) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:55 amI heard about that too, Bupkis, so where did the “outlawed” guns come from? Oh that’s right. They were only outlawed for the potential victims on the train, not the terrorist. Sounds like Detroit, or Chicago, or DC, or Baltimore…..( add leftist city here ).
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:56 amMaybe the senile paranoia up the thread about how the SCOAMF will now abuse these soldiers adds to the story more?
nk (dbc370) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:57 amSpanakopita.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:57 amReportedly, the attacker claims they were not his weapons; he found them in a carry-on bag at the station.
The Telegraph has a photo-filled story, including the detail that the medals are from the city where the attacker was handed over to the police.
A Zoomer! Yea!
htom (4ca1fa) — 8/22/2015 @ 6:37 amDana, I respectfully remind you they’re not soldiers.
I think one of the interesting aspects of this story is that everyone, especially the Europeans, assumed they were Marines because of their actions. They turned out to be a National Guardsman and an Air Force guy. I wonder of Marines are still as hated by the Muslims as they were when the Palestinians terrorists murdered Navy diver Robert Stethem on TWA 847 in 1985. Of course those terrorists were Hezbollah and the Marines had recently been in Lebanon (where many were murdered by Iran) but navy in German, the language of the terrorists, is “marine.”
The Europeans are also, idiotically, assuring everyone, as this commenter did, It’s ironic that what could have been a really nasty attack was stopped in a country that has very restrictive gun laws by people without guns. Seems that maybe there are better ways of safety than everyone runnng around with guns.
Yes, that’s it. Make sure only thew terrorists have guns. Charlie Hebdo could not be reached for comment.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 8/22/2015 @ 6:54 amnk,
I agree these brave men didn’t need guns to stop this, but I bet they would have liked the option.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/22/2015 @ 7:07 amWait a minute. Hold on. I thought trains and other public transit were “Gun-free zones!”
And why were these two American thugs allowed to commit blatant acts of Islamophobia in public?
How long before the National Command Authority brings charges against these two malcontents?
WarEagle82 (44dbd0) — 8/22/2015 @ 7:26 amNo argument, DRJ. I am definitely not a “gun control idjit”. 😉
Arabs always lie, but I’m wondering if the shooter is not telling a partial truth that he “found” the gun on the train. He might have had a less suspicious-looking person, like a railroad employee or a woman, smuggle it aboard for him. (Even the Chicago gangs have their girlfriends keep and carry their weapons for them, and they’re not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier.) Which would mean that the shooter is part of a terrorist cell.
nk (dbc370) — 8/22/2015 @ 7:35 amThe latest reports say the terrorist got n the train in Brussels. It appears there is no security at Thalys train stations in Brussels, just turnstiles.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/22/2015 @ 8:12 amThe Europeans are also, idiotically…
What more can be, or has to be, said?
Liberalism truly is a form of mental illness.
Mark (e187ae) — 8/22/2015 @ 8:21 amSo the terrorists get on where there’s no security and target victims where there are “no guns”. Anybody see a theme here?
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/22/2015 @ 8:36 amGreetings:
Lafayette, we are here (again).
11B40 (6abb5c) — 8/22/2015 @ 8:41 amYay, they’re just ordinary Americans! That’s even better!
Once again our wonderful corn fed American boys save the pale, cowardly French.
They will soon hate us again for another 50 years.
Patricia (5fc097) — 8/22/2015 @ 8:47 amSo apparently “the guys” on flight 93 did need guns.
No, they just needed an attitude that says: “Nobody hijacks an airline.”
The problem wasn’t the lack of guns, the problem was that the hijackers got control of the airplane, killed the pilots, and locked themselves in the cockpit. Those same men, back when the hijackers were threatening stews to get into the cockpit could have handled it much the same as these guys. Especially since there were a lot more of them than hijackers.
But the attitude wasn’t there yet. It is now.
(and if you need weapons on an airplane, issuing a solid rubber mallet to every passenger will suffice)
Kevin M (25bbee) — 8/22/2015 @ 8:56 amHe said the staff hurried towards their own car on the train and opened it ‘with a special key’ before they locked themselves inside.
I suspect that is TGV policy.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 8/22/2015 @ 8:58 amSo true. And the African American young man was with his white buddies, indicating again that we are not a country of racists like the media paints us. I hope France gives them a whopping good parade or something!
Patricia (5fc097) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:00 amA nice solid red ribbon for their dress uniforms would be good. There seems to be no bar to giving the Legion of Honour to Americans — it’s been done about 10,000 times.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:12 amTHe real question is whether the US will honor them with a Silver Star or something. Of course, that would depend on whether Islamic terrorists are still “the enemy” and not just unfound friends like the Iranians.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:15 amAs the Blogfather says:
A pack, not a herd.
Parallel (cea1ac) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:17 amOops. I forgot to note here: Update added.
Dana (86e864) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:41 amThe thought of a confederate hiding a gun on the train brings up the topic of airline security in airports. It is almost nonexistent. No airplane will ever be hijacked again in this country.
The passengers will not allow it.
Bombs are another matter.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:46 amHe said the staff hurried towards their own car on the train and opened it ‘with a special key’ before they locked themselves inside.
I suspect that is TGV policy.
French alert levels:
nk (dbc370) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:49 am1. Run
2. Hide
3. Surrender
4. Collaborate
Waiting for the press conference by the leaders of CAIR denouncing the “islamophobia” of the “American attackers.”
Mike Stewart (95c87f) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:54 amThe self-serving behavior of the train crew seems curiously reminiscent of Captain Coward, Francesco Schettino, of the Costa Concordia. He just got 16 years for abandoning his responsibility for the safety of his crew and passengers – 32 died.
ropelight (859bee) — 8/22/2015 @ 10:29 amnk, and isn’t it amazing that Europeans routinely think that they will be protected by agents of the state. The truth, as we see now, is the “agents” have keys that will allow them to hide in a locked room, thus ensuring that they will be the last to be killed. It’s all a piece of surrendering your personal responsibility in return for accepting the scraps that the elite don’t want. France and Germany (and the rest of the miserable crew) have not changed a bit in the last two centuries. There is something exceptional about our Anglo-Saxon heritage (think about the Magna Charta, for example) and the distillation of that culture that resulted in the United States. We truly have something to fight for and to celebrate. Would that the administration have someone who knew history. The exploitation of infantile grievances is a poor foundation for governing.
bobathome (4a2679) — 8/22/2015 @ 10:38 amhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3206426/U-S-Marines-armed-gunman-onboard-high-speed-train-Amsterdam-Paris.html
mg (31009b) — 8/22/2015 @ 10:39 amnk
The French were invaded three times since our civil war, while their country was in ruins, they still were sending as many troops in the 50’s to fight Islamic extremism in North Africa and the communists in Vietnam as we sent to fight in Korea. Their Airforce in May and June shot almost half the Luftwaffe fighter force out of the skies. Greatly aiding the battle of Britain by their sacrifice.
Today they have arguably the best armored forces far superior to ours, and a standing army surprisingly large.
But they still have the lazy Paris, our San Francisco
EPWJ (69272a) — 8/22/2015 @ 10:52 amThere is something exceptional about our Anglo-Saxon heritage (think about the Magna Charta, for example) and the distillation of that culture that resulted in the United States.
I wonder if that’s a special blessing rather unique to the US, and, if so, how long it will last or can last—certainly in this age of Obama’s America.
When looking around the world, from Europe to Asia, from South America to Africa, from the Middle East to the South Pacific, I have little confidence in the socio-political sanity or decency (or non-leftism, non-reactionary-ism, non-extremism) of most humans, regardless of their race, ethnicity, religion, nationality, gender, sexuality, etc.
Mark (e187ae) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:04 amThis paper paints the French Air Force in the Summer of 1940 as more concerned about its bureaucratic survival than with protecting France from the Germans. Reminds me of today’s Beltway politicians.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:08 amThe Germans occupied the Rhineland with one regiment. That’s about 1,000 German soldiers against the entire French armed forces, and the French were too scared to do anything about it.
nk (dbc370) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:12 amThat’s leaving out the French high command’s divided loyalties, yes they subsequently fought eight years in indochina, and almost as long in algeria, which it took 17 years to conquer
narciso (b4162e) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:17 am#18 & 19
The servicemen absolutely should be prosecuted – for not providing the moroccan with his immediate destiny with his 72 virgins.
Joe from Texas (debac0) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:18 amThe French got their arse handed to them by the Ivory Coast. The next time France fights a war and doesn’t lose will only happen if they fight themselves.
JD (3b5483) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:19 amDRJ
We gave them 150 early model Curtis P36 according to one of my print books, opposing them the Luftwaffe had on strength about 895 me109, the French pilots just in the P36 shot down a fourth of them, that alone was more than the brits had spitfires at the time. But its an old print book, its accuracy is unproven
EPWJ (69272a) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:21 amDRJ
Lots of things happened basically they were beset by parliament arguments, the misapplication of armour, the non massing of artillery for concentrated bombardment, and the lack of ammunition, they had built an army of 80 divisions but only could move effectively a dozen at the time.
EPWJ (69272a) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:28 amMy link confirms the French were getting new planes every day, EWPJ, and also that the Air Force was the German’s equal. But it also claims they sent their best planes and aviators to North Africa to protect them, so the Air Force could retain its strength and avoid coming back under Army control.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:29 amDRJ
No they really didn’t because the plant that made propellers was abandoned, the had too few refueling trucks, sad part was, what planes took off were way outnumbered and still made kills, people forget that numbers, altitude, surprise are crucial factors in air warfare, its like saying College station high school basketball team played Texas A&M varsity, with only three players on the court and lost 89 to 189. Every plane (fighters especially) they shot down was one less that was strafing British airfields in six months.
Imagine having to turn towards the enemy in slower planes, less well armed, out numbered 9 to 6, that’s what the French did for 5 weeks, In the Battle of Britain they used the Big wing they never attacked unless they had the numbers, the didn’t take on the germans un equal ground they used superior numbers by massing themselves
EPWJ (69272a) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:36 amDRJ
But back to the story, maybe this attack is going to start the conversation that carrying a gun in Europe is not a bad thing, most impacted – criminals and terrorists (I always thought that a 5 shot 38 revolver should not need a conceal permit) I got so angry after Sandy Hook that the meme that we needed to get rid of guns when the real story was that we trusted teachers with our kids lives but we sent them one by one to confront a gunman unarmed, if they had a 38 they could have stopped him.
I bet all those people locked out by the staff wished they had a gun
EPWJ (69272a) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:42 amHistory as written by The Onion is more accurate
JD (4ebc00) — 8/22/2015 @ 11:49 amThere is a GRN reporter from Paris on Fox who says the Americans had to run 30 feet — the length of the train car — toward the armed terrorist to confront and disarm him. She also said the Americans are currently being debriefed at a local police station, while outside the French people are cheering for them. Sounds like what happened after WWII, doesn’t it?
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/22/2015 @ 1:08 pmDRJ
I think the people of France were overwhelmingly grateful like the Dutch and the Belgians to the troops, their politicians, not so much
EPWJ (69272a) — 8/22/2015 @ 1:25 pmWhat a striking, but not surprising, contrast: Americans running toward the danger; others running away from the danger.
Dana (86e864) — 8/22/2015 @ 1:27 pmDana
I think our second Amendment instills a duty of self defense, not just a right, but hey I could be also a writer for the Onion (if I was funny)
EPWJ (69272a) — 8/22/2015 @ 1:29 pmThis wasn’t self-defense, it was the selfless defense of others.
JD (3b5483) — 8/22/2015 @ 2:52 pmJD
Absolutely
EPWJ (e1efe6) — 8/22/2015 @ 3:23 pmWell, technically we didn’t give them P-36s. They bought them. And the export variants wouldn’t have been designated P-36s. Like the F2A Buffaloes exported to Finland were B-239s they would have had a separate designation. And they would have varied to some degree from the plane in US service. The export Bell P-39 Airacobras when seized and pressed into US service were not simply P-39s. They were different because they were export variants. Therefore they were P-400s, which the pilots who flew those dogs will tell you meant it was a P-40 with a 0 (Zero) on its tail.
Crap fighter (it would make you cry to learn how the Army ruined the original design; Bell Aircraft had given them a GREAT fighter) but a damned good ground attack plane.
In a way, for the Navy it was a feature not a bug the Army fighter wasn’t much of a fighter. When it became apparent that PT boats weren’t much in the way of torpedo boats, but their highest and best use was as gun platforms, they needed guns. One of the best sources for guns were wrecked Airacobras at airfields up and down the Solomons for their 37mm fire-through-the-propeller-hub M4 cannons. The field expedient proved such an eloquent solution that PT boats began being delivered armed that way from the factory.
But I digress. Also, you’ll have to wait for the rest of the story when I publish my book, Green Dragons and Black Cats, A Love Story.
Point being that in the 1930s technology in the field of aviation was advancing at such a rapid pace that an aircraft design that was cutting edge one year was obsolete the year after next.
Sort of like now, with IT.
The lessons learned then are not obsolete now.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:12 pmSelf defense on a European train apparently involves using the special key to lock yourself into the special crying compartment at the first hint of danger.
Or to use modern college campus terms, the safe space at the trigger alert.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:17 pmSteve they were supposed to be P75a1/2’s the export model, but because of the nature of the urgency some sources say we actually sent them operational P36’s – there was a 100 HP difference
What was interesting is that the French, Polish, Dutch, Swedish, British aircraft purchasing commissions help ramp up our aircraft industry in 37,38
EPWJ (e1efe6) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:21 pmDespite its disadvantages the Armée de l’Air performed far better than expected, destroying 916 enemy aircraft in air-to-air combat during the Battle of France, for a kill ratio of 2.35:1, with almost a third of those kills accomplished by French pilots flying the US built Curtiss Hawk 75 which accounted for 12.6 percent of the French single-seat fighter force.[90]
Facon, Patrick. “Slowing Down Blitzkreig – A Curtiss Fighter Ace in the Battle of France.” AIR FAN International, Publitek, March 1996, pp. 54–62, ISSN 1083-2548
EPWJ (b56031) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:33 pmI didn’t mean to harsh your mellow, EPWJ. I enjoyed your posts.
Having just reread Russell Sydnor Crenshaw’s excellent book on Tassafaronga…
http://www.usni.org/store/books/battleships-destroyers/battle-tassafaronga
…your mention of the aircraft involved reminded me that there are lessons there we should not forget today.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:34 pmOf course, I descend from the service that when called upon to conduct riverine warfare in Vietnam dusted off lessons learned from the Seminole wars a century earlier.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:37 pmbasically he was part of the verviers cell
http://www.lavoixdunord.fr/region/coups-de-feu-dans-le-thalys-ayoub-el-khazzani-avait-ia29b0n3002148
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:48 pmI hear that the Urkel DOD is charging the guys who tackled the innocent jihadi with aggravated assault and RACISSSISSSSM in the first degree. Perhaps the dude from Morocco just wanted to help the passengers by killing bedbugs with his AK.
John Cunningham (303150) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:51 pmYep, them are the same people that would not stand behind Bush after 9/11, nor would they stand with Bush when he made the now fateful decision to go into Iraq. Cowards in the face of terrorism.
Patrick in Michigan (6def51) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:54 pmepwj, the numbers you quote are those that the pilots supplied. In the Battle of Britain, it was fairly obvious that the pilots, both British and Nazi, overstated their kills by about a factor of three. This isn’t to fault the pilots. It is simply a result of the frantic pace of aerial combat. They installed gun cameras to help clarify the issue, which is of significance.
bobathome (6f310e) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:55 pmSteve57
I was trying to write a script of the Destroyer Johnston and its sister ships at the Battle of Taffy3 – Since they had made first Pearl Harbor and then the “Battleship movie”, I thought the opportunity to really teach young people about heorism about a handful of destroyers going up against a rain of steel in the Battle of the Samar Straight defending the vulnerable invasion beach against the main Japanese battle line
EPWJ (a9a964) — 8/22/2015 @ 4:56 pmbobathome.
The Germans, in many sources, said the losses in France were much greater than espected, Hitler was already starting to doubt the Luftwaffe, and slowed the growth of aircraft production in favor of tanks and subs,
EPWJ (a9a964) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:00 pmhe battle for France had cost the Luftwaffe 28% of its front line strength, some 1,236 []— 1,428 aircraft destroyed (1,129 to enemy action, 299 in accidents). A further 323 []— 488 were damaged (225 to enemy action, 263 in accidents), making a total of 36% of the Luftwaffe strength negatively affected.
[239][240]
Luftwaffe casualties
Battle of France amounted to 6,653, including 4,417 aircrew; of these 1,129 were killed and 1,930 missing and captured. A great number were liberated from French prison camps upon the French capitulation.
[241]
http://fileserver.net-texts.com/asset.aspx?dl=no&id=26455
EPWJ (a9a964) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:23 pmI wish you the best of luck, EPWJ.
Just so you know, it wouldn’t have been the first time the USN had hurled itself against an enemy that substantially outweighed it.
http://combinedfleet.com/battles/Guadalcanal_Campaign#First_Guadalcanal
The American sailors under Callaghan went into this convinced they were committing suicide. I’m not going to look up the weight of a Japanese 14 inch shell, the guns on the Hiei and Kirishima, but to provide a comparison.
A light cruisers 6 inch guns threw a shell weighing 130 pounds. A heavy cruiser’s 8 inch guns threw a shell weighing 220 pounds.
A USN battleship with 16 inch guns threw a shell weighing 2,700 pounds.
There was simply no comparison. Cruisers just weren’t designed nor intended to go up against battleships. Callaghan had good intel, he knew what he was going up against, and he didn’t think he was going to come out of it alive. He didn’t.
Whatever criticisms of his command people have come up with over the years shrink besides one fact.
He did his duty.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:26 pmepwj, presumably that’s why he dismissed Goering and launched the invasion barges from Belgium in August in 1940?
[I’m being sarcastic … in case your knowledge of history is a bit on the flimsy side.]
Unlike the Germans in WWI, Hitler managed to capture Paris in the time table that had been envisioned in 1914. I rather doubt he was questioning anything about the Luftwaffe, at least until September of 1940. They’d performed wonders against Poland’s cavalry. I have read that the British had more of their air force (30%) engaged against the Nazis in May of 1940 than did the French (10%.) France was (and is) a cesspool of ancient grievances, and each side thought it had something to gain from a Nazi victory, except, of course, for the poor saps in the armed forces.
bobathome (6f310e) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:32 pmI think the upshot is that if I’m on a train and someone hauls an AK-47 out of a duffel bag, I’m not locking myself into the crying room with the special key and the conductor and the staff.
I think I’ll just haul my fat middle aged @## once more into the fight, with the life time of sprained ankles, arthritic knees, hips that need replacing, and shoulders I damaged trying to improve my swim times and still failing to get into Navy EOD dive training and all.
Big talk maybe, but I’d be ashamed to live if I didn’t.
I’ve been thinking about this since I was a small child. I was a Coast Guard brat, which meant the hospital I went to for routine childhood stuff was the local Naval Regional Medical Center. So I got to see all the horribly wounded sailors and marines.
I learned not to stare. But also not to look away. If I grew up to be a sailor I’d have to deal with these injuries and worse. And fight the ship. I grew up to be a sailor.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:42 pmThis was during and immediately after the Vietnam War.
It inspired a life long interest in fire fighting and first aid in me that continues to this day.
My Red Cross Adult and Pediatric First Aid/CPR/AED card is good until March 2017.
I don’t have a fire pump, but I know where to get one, and how to use it.
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/Products.asp?mi=84651&title=Wick%20250%202-Cycle%20Fire%20Pump&itemnum=93792&redir=Y
If you’re on fire or injured, there are worse people to have around than me.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 5:50 pmSteve57 — I’ll be beside you. They’ll look at us and think “old geezers”, turn their backs, and surprise!
htom (4ca1fa) — 8/22/2015 @ 8:17 pmMom and Dad were WW2 Navy and Army, and all of their kids were expected to get As in all of the first aid & fire & swimming & … anything to do with saving others or yourself. I let my Red Cross certifications slip a decade ago because I was busy; I’m going through the whole Red Cross Adult/Ped FA/CPR/AED course sometime in the next two months.
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2015/08/the-most-pathetic-headline-to-come-out-of-the-terrorist-attack-on-french-train.php
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:16 pmIt won’t be hard to be beside my fat, shackledy @$$, tom. Not like I’ll be moving that fast.
Not like I ever could move that fast. After I graduated from AOCS my DIs let me in on their secret luagh. Most people who have trouble with the obstacle, or confidence, course have trouble with the obstacles.
Not me. I was just running in slo mo between the obstacles.
Then I’d zip up and down or across the obstacle as in real time.
Then I was back to the super-slo-mo “Chariots of Fire” video between the obstacles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=33&v=s8AxwUDMczE
They said it was one of the funniest things they’d ever seen.
What can I say? I’ve always had a problem running in deep sand. H3ll, I’ve always had problems running, period.
Needless to say, tom, even if I was trying to run away you’d not have a problem keeping up with me.
But I don’t think I’d try to run away because, I just can’t. I can wrastle, though.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:41 pmI was so slow one of my earliest callsigns was “Flash.”
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:42 pmI have all the athletic grace and alacrity of a mud slide, especially in the first few seconds when I start what I euphemistically call my sprint. You can hardly tell anything is moving but you can sense deep inside something terrifying is happening.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 9:50 pmbobathome,
Goering wanted the lions share of National GDP, one of the reasons plan z (The German Navy plan for expanded surface fleet) Was that Goering said the Luftwaffe can rule the skies. After Paris, especially after Dunkirk, Hitler BEGAN to doubt Goering, and listened to Keitel and Donnitz more strategic guidance.
I am an expert, I’ve seen the guns of Navarone 4 times, and some Clint Eastwood movies too!
EPWJ (a9a964) — 8/22/2015 @ 10:03 pmIn addition I’ve seen Das Boot.
Maybe we should form a club for fake WWII veterans.
Who have been traumatized by the movies they’ve seen.
Our motto.
They too have almost served.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/22/2015 @ 10:07 pmepwj, but have you seen the Dirty Dozen? Kidding aside, thanks for the net text link. Is it permitted to give us the name of author? And why can’t I add the url to a favorites folder?
bobathome (6f310e) — 8/23/2015 @ 12:24 amMy first handle was “Flash”, a memento of an accident with the power supply of a Honeywell PressMaster 880 Strobonar. My eyes and ears rang for a couple of minutes. It changed the clear lens to amber. “Sun in a box!”, indeed!
htom (4ca1fa) — 8/23/2015 @ 12:52 ambobathome,
its one of those weird internet things I cant reproduce how I even found that link
EPWJ (79e881) — 8/23/2015 @ 1:08 amI don’t begrudge the marines a bit of their reputation.
But it’s nice to know the rest of the world is learning other Americans don’t Pi$$ themselves when some mohammedan freakazoid racks the bolt on an AK.
Your Saturday Afternoon Matinee.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX19sAudmic
I knew one guy who had his feet chopped off by a forklift on the hangar deck. Another lost his legs to a tow line. But nearly all the amputees I met lost their legs to a broken arresting cable.
It doesn’t happen much anymore. Over time you develop a knowledge base and after building in some cushion you can figure roughly how long cable can be expected to last.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/23/2015 @ 2:11 pmSteve57
Why don’t you start a Mil blog?
EPWJ (fa1d91) — 8/23/2015 @ 2:17 pmIt would be boring. It would have to be titled something suitably heroic like:
My War Against Rust, The Steve57 Story.
Then it would be downhill from there.
I’ll let you in on something. Spoiler Alert!
In the end rust wins.
Steve57 (5a07a9) — 8/24/2015 @ 12:05 am