Patterico's Pontifications

7/28/2015

Boy Scouts Of America Bows To LGBT, But Not Enough

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:35 am

[guest post by Dana]

Bowing to pressure from LGBT groups:

The Boy Scouts of America decided Monday to allow openly gay men and women to be volunteer leaders and work in the organization’s offices, a major concession by the group in a protracted battle between the Boy Scouts of America and LGBT activists.

The decision was prodded by gay rights groups threatening lawsuits against the organization and has caused consistent infighting in the organization

An exemption provided for local groups (religious based) will remain in place:

“Chartered organizations will continue to select their adult leaders and religious chartered organizations may continue to use religious beliefs as criteria for selecting adult leaders, including matters of sexuality,” the Boy Scouts of America said in a statement. “This change allows Scouting’s members and parents to select local units, chartered to organizations with similar beliefs, that best meet the needs of their families. This change also respects the right of religious chartered organizations to choose adult volunteer leaders whose beliefs are consistent with their own.

And, as you would expect, LGBT groups remain dissatisfied because of the exemption:

“Today’s vote by the Boy Scouts of America to allow gay, lesbian and bisexual adults to work and volunteer is a welcome step toward erasing a stain on this important organization,” Human Rights Campaign President Chad Griffin said in a statement. “But including an exemption for troops sponsored by religious organizations undermines and diminishes the historic nature of today’s decision. Discrimination should have no place in the Boy Scouts, period.”

–Dana

128 Responses to “Boy Scouts Of America Bows To LGBT, But Not Enough”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. happyfascist will be along shorty to explain why the Boy Scouts weren’t nice enough to the Nazis.

    Steve57 (0412d7)

  3. They forgot “transgendered.”

    Steve B (867a1f)

  4. My first reaction to hearing someone shot Cecil the lion is, “Hey, nice shot. What rifle did you use?”

    My next question would be, who the f___ named him Cecil, and when was the vote on Zimbabwe’s most favorite lion taken?

    And did anyone ask the Zibabweans, British MoFos?

    Steve57 (0412d7)

  5. well the irony of calling him Cecil, in the former Rhodesia comes to mind,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  6. According to some British dweeb, in 2009 I shot and killed Zimbabwe’s most favorite everest’s elephant.

    Shortly after I killed Namibia’s most loved Gemsbok.

    And the beloved freakin’ caribou of Alaska.

    Steve57 (0412d7)

  7. 6. well the irony of calling him Cecil, in the former Rhodesia comes to mind,
    narciso (ee1f88) — 7/28/2015 @ 7:08 am

    The irony did not escape me. Mr. Rhodes was unavailable for comment.

    Steve57 (0412d7)

  8. I suspect a number of people would have been happier if the Roman Catholics had
    discriminated….

    Richard Aubrey (f6d8de)

  9. Now that Cecil the lion is well and truly dead, I think it’s only appropriate to call for a vote for what other country’s most favored animal must die.

    I’m thinking Yogi the bear.

    Steve57 (0412d7)

  10. This will be the end of the Boy Scouts. No surprise as this culture is moving toward banning any traditional value in public.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  11. We pulled our kids from the Scouts last year after the initial decision. Rather we lower risk of someone trying to molest and sexualize our kids than increase it. Bottom line is Pedophiles are drawn to places (and Organizations) where children are.

    If the Organization now willfully accepts people who are openly attracted to kids with the sex of my children then I have to assume the probability they get attacked or preyed upon becomes higher. So, best they not attend.

    This is not to say Gay men are pedophiles, but fact is many pedophiles are gay. And I don’t want to attach a pedo magnet to my kids backs by sending them to a place that for PC Reasons is willing to increase exposure. The straighter and more religious the Men, the more likely I trust them with my kids alone … and even that I want plenty of eyes around cuz Men’s sexual predatory nature is much stronger than women.

    ** FWIW, this reminds me of the BS about AIDS when Gays were saying risks are the same when they never were. Heroin addicts and Gay Men are like 50X more likely to contract it but the politics don’t let you speak the truth.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9225a4)

  12. Gay rights has always been about child molestation. http://askthebigot.com/2015/07/23/the-story-of-moira-greyland-guest-post/

    nk (dbc370)

  13. boy scouts is a stupid anachronistic club with gay uniforms for lazy and or cheap parents what aren’t trying terribly hard to nurture for reals Talent and Ability in their kid
    they just don’t wanna pay a babysitter

    they don’t even have tasty cookies

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  14. @13, I dislike the idea of offending aphrael.

    Now, offending happyfascist doesn’t give me pause.

    But that’s for another day.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qanlirrRWs

    [HOONIGAN] KEN BLOCK’S GYMKHANA SEVEN: WILD IN THE STREETS OF LOS ANGELES

    Steve57 (0412d7)

  15. If it’s good enough for the Catholic church, it’s good enough for the Boy Scouts of America.

    The heroes of America in 2015: Bathhouse Barry (who, btw, says in an interview today he’s been a darn good president and probably would win a third term), Bruce “Caitlyn” Jenner, US military enlistees wearing high-heel shoes in public to show solidarity with women, and, of course, GLBT BSA Troop masters.

    It warms the heart.

    Mark (3ed2ac)

  16. Nk, the story about Moira is awful. And folks in SF covered it up. But the saying about evil and the light finally came true.

    Simon Jester (d199c7)

  17. Gay men are not, for the most part, pedophiles but they often are ephebophiles.

    Some gay men I know, or knew before AIDS, were attracted to adult young men but others are still attracted to teenagers and that cohort was the vast majority of the boys “molested” by priests in the church scandals.

    I expect the next “civil rights” push will be by NAMBLA.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  18. And the urgent push for states should be to raise the age of consent, including the age of marriage, to eighteen. No exception for parental or judicial consent.

    nk (dbc370)

  19. I’m proud to say that I never read anything by Marion Zimmer Bradley, Simon. But I did buy knives from Atlanta Cutlery, one of the sponsors of the Society for Creative Anachronism.

    nk (dbc370)

  20. Greetings:

    Truth be told, that’s the “Homo Rights Campaign”. If there’s anything else on its agenda, I haven’t heard about it.

    11B40 (0f96be)

  21. I expect the next “civil rights” push will be by NAMBLA.

    The history of ancient Greece is one where adult males had young males around for sexual pleasure.

    I recall Richard Nixon joking with one of his aides about the nature of homosexuality, saying that was something associated with ancient Greece. Such a concept, such a type of culture seemed distant, alien and mock-worthy in the context of the US not just back when Nixon was president but even not too many years ago. Today? Nope. We are becoming or have become sort of an ancient Greece—if not sort of a modern-day version of it from also an economic standpoint.

    Mark (3ed2ac)

  22. too bad the BSA didn’t learn from the history of the Catholic Church.

    seeRpea (65ab7f)

  23. And when homos start raping young boys like happened in the Catholic Church who will be sued by the parents? The “LGBT activist groups” (who for some reason remain unnamed in this article) or perhaps the Human Rights Campaign”? No, just like the Church, those who promote the deviancy will tip-toe away financially unscathed while the Boy Scouts are sued out of existence. So it’s a win-win for the pervs. Either we sue you to oblivion now, or the victims sue you to oblivion later.
    The Boy Scouts of America should disband and put all their last resources into a campaign stating the reason they’re closing the doors is to save the children from the pervs. And to point out if this country and its laws continue to treat sexual deviants like they’re some sort of third sex we will be a nation of degenerates in one generation and the only new Americans will be born elsewhere and sneak cross our border. If they’re gonna be sued out of business it behooves them to minimize the trauma and sexual devastation to the boys in their charge.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  24. They have no need to disband. Only gays will send their kids there now.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. i’m so mad about these boy scouts letting in them gays i could spit

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  26. Boy Scouts Of America Bows To LGBT, But Not Enough

    It never is enough, it never will be enough. The goal is to destroy the Boy Scouts and what they represent, and increase Leftist power.

    gahrie (12cc0f)

  27. Your headline is wrong.

    “Boy Scouts of America bends over to LGBT, but not enough.”

    There. Fixed it for you.

    Tragic Christian (813e3a)

  28. Chad Griffin said:

    Discrimination should have no place in the Boy Scouts, period.

    But it will. Even if the BSUSA allows openly acknowledged homosexuals to serve as scoutmasters, those scoutmasters will be leading troops of zero boys. It doesn’t matter how liberal and how inclusive you are, if you are a parent, you have a natural instinct to protect your children. Normal parents are not going to be inclined to send their sons out camping in the woods with a higher risk scoutmaster.

    Some would say that it is unfair to think that homosexual scoutmasters would be any greater risk for abusing teenaged boys, but parents tend to be unfair when it comes to their children’s safety.

    The normal Dana (f6a568)

  29. Toe touchers… begin.

    One and a two and a three and a four…

    What they need is a special alert. Like an Amber Alert only for queers molesting boy scouts.

    The khaki alert, an all points bulletin to remind us how predatory queers bulldozed their way into your children’s nether ya yas. Because that’s what rapists do. Can’t help it. They’re born that way.
    What’s more, you and your antiquated ideas about keeping your children well away from them is a violation of the predator’s civil rights.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  30. # 28 Discrimination should have no place in the Boy Scouts, period.

    But it will. Even if the BSUSA allows openly acknowledged homosexuals to serve as scoutmasters, those scoutmasters will be leading troops of zero boys. It doesn’t matter how liberal and how inclusive you are, if you are a parent, you have a natural instinct to protect your children. Normal parents are not going to be inclined to send their sons out camping in the woods with a higher risk scoutmaster.

    Some would say that it is unfair to think that homosexual scoutmasters would be any greater risk for abusing teenaged boys, but parents tend to be unfair when it comes to their children’s safety.

    The normal Dana (f6a568) — 7/28/2015 @ 10:20 am

    While Gays are only slightly more likely to be pedophiles than the general population, the sub set of gay population that wants to mingle with children/young boys and does not have their own children in the scout troop has a much greater likelihood of being a pedophile. Just look at the problems in the catholic church.

    joe (debac0)

  31. A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, reverent, and well-lubricated.

    nk (dbc370)

  32. So, if I chose to not have my scout in a troop with a gay scoutmaster, can I be sued? What if I am an assistant scoutmaster and chose to leave the troop if the scoutmaster is gay. Can I be sued then?

    Scouting is about the scouts, not the scout masters. But then these groups don’t care about the scouts or scouting, only dismantling one of the most valuable groups for boys in the world.

    Bill Cook (b0e724)

  33. Let’s be brutally honest: even if some parents do allow their sons to join a troop led by an openly known homosexual, their peers in junior high and high school are going to be taunting them mercilessly, because that’s what teenaged boys do. “What, you want to go out camping in the woods with a queer? What kind of homo are you?”

    You might not like my choice of words, but we all know that those words, and worse, will be used by high school boys.

    The Dana who went to high school . . . a long time ago! (f6a568)

  34. on a positive note, opens up a whole new world of scout badges!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. Hmmm. My guess is that scouts and leaders who are openly non-straight are probably less of a risk of being pedophiles than those who are in the closet, or so deeply in denial they don’t know they’re non-straight. Long, long ago the rules were that a male parent could not be the leader of their child’s troop (that is, my Dad could be the Scoutmaster of Troop 127, but not Troop 125, which I and my brother belonged to as Boy Scouts; in a demonstration of complete sexism, Mom was the leader of our Cub Scout Pack (younger than Boy Scouts).)

    I am inclined to agree that the goal of the noisy group of LGBT is the destruction of the Boy Scouts. Which is sad, and a waste of their energy, BSA and GSA are both dying anyway.

    htom (4ca1fa)

  36. we all know that those words, and worse, will be used by high school boys.

    Until they learn about the thought police. Then it will be less open and probably more hostile.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  37. Mr Cook asked:

    So, if I chose to not have my scout in a troop with a gay scoutmaster, can I be sued? What if I am an assistant scoutmaster and chose to leave the troop if the scoutmaster is gay. Can I be sued then?

    In the latter case, yes, there is a possibility that you could be sued, if you stated openly that yuo were leaving because the scoutmaster was homosexual, because it could be alleged that you were taking an action to damage his reputation. And the homosexual advocacy groups would put your name on a list as someone who discriminates against homosexuals, something which might injure your future job prospects.

    A real lawyer might say that no, you couldn’t be sued for the latter action, but I think that ignores the ever-expanding “list” of offenses for which people do get sued these days. You might eventually prevail in the suit against you, but it would cost you time and money.

    The Dana who isn't an attorney (f6a568)

  38. Dana — there were those who made those complaints back in the day, with straight leaders. I always wondered a bit about them doing so, and in some cases, it’s turned out I was right.

    htom (4ca1fa)

  39. Mr Cook wrote:

    Scouting is about the scouts, not the scout masters. But then these groups don’t care about the scouts or scouting, only dismantling one of the most valuable groups for boys in the world.

    Let’s be honest here: homosexuals cannot reproduce, and the only way to propagate the species is through recruitment. The goal is to lessen the natural inhibitions that most people have about homosexual activity, lessening the stigma of being homosexual, which allows people more of a choice of trying homosexual sex.

    Most people really don’t care what other people do in their bedrooms, and if tolerance was all that the homosexual advocates sought, that’d be fine. But tolerance isn’t e goal; a requirement of approval and acceptance is the goal.

    The brutally direct Dana (f6a568)

  40. whorish and molesty public school teachersluts are an exponentially bigger problem in failmerica than the gay scout people i think

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  41. Mr Feet wrote:

    whorish and molesty public school teachersluts are an exponentially bigger problem in failmerica than the gay scout people i think

    That’s certainly true, because school attendance is mandatory, whilst the Boy Scouts are strictly voluntary, but the fact that teachers molesting students is a much bigger problem, and one which ought to be made public far more often — Robert Stacey Stacy McCain covers this well — doesn’t mean we ignore the smaller problem.

    The Dana who wasn't an education major (f6a568)

  42. Long time lurker, both here and on PW back in the bad old days.

    Is happyfascist/feet the conservative blogosphere’s version of a court fool?

    starbuckslover (26ac75)

  43. I don’t really care for the tone of most of these comments. Homosexuality does not equal pedophilia.

    What I find ironic about all of this is that they would never let a guy run a Girl Scout group. These pendulums only swing one way.

    JD (1256a4)

  44. We need to get rid of our “representative” democracy and go to a full democracy so the majority can’t be ruled by the 2% who are gay. Too often a thuggish minority effectively rules the majority.

    Jim (defd88)

  45. Is happyfascist/feet the conservative blogosphere’s version of a court fool?

    i’m rubber and you’re glue

    hah

    no backs

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  46. whorish and molesty public school teachersluts are an exponentially bigger problem in failmerica than the gay scout people i think

    Mr. Feets, did it ever occur that might also be due to the fact the Boy Scouts are not forced to have gay Scoutmasters? Maybe, just maybe those statistics will change when gay Scoutmasters are out-a-campin’ with the young’uns.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  47. To use the leftist argument: “If it saves just ONE child”.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  48. how much camping do scouts actually do in real life?

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  49. JD is somewhat miffed:

    I don’t really care for the tone of most of these comments. Homosexuality does not equal pedophilia.

    As Mr K noted above, the problem isn’t pedophilia, an attraction to pre-pubescent children, but an attraction to teenaged boys. Such scoutmasters might not be actual ephebophiles, in that they could be just as attracted to males above the age of consent, but the attraction to males, period, leads to the increased risk that a homosexual scoutmaster might feel the urges toward a 14 year old Tenderfoot.

    As much as the left would deny that homosexuality had anything to do with the scandal concerning sexually abusive priests, a whopping 81% of the victims in that scandal were male, and usually above the ages preferred by pedophiles.

    I’m not one to mince words, and have certainly been referred to as an [insert slang term for the rectum here] before, but I have to wonder: why would homosexuals go to the wall to push an issue that is bound to raise suspicions? If their goal is to persuade normal people (terminology very specifically intended) that they are just regular Joes like the rest of us, why strive so mightily to gain positions which would give them greater access to teenaged boys out in the woods?

    The vast majority of homosexual men, just like normal men, aren’t interested in becoming scoutmasters, but they are out there, pushing an agenda which would help that much smaller number of homosexual men who would be interested in going camping with teenaged boys. It doesn’t make any sense at all, and when I see people pushing things that don’t make sense, I get suspicious.

    The very direct and unsubtle Dana (f6a568)

  50. 46.We need to get rid of our “representative” democracy and go to a full democracy so the majority can’t be ruled by the 2% who are gay. Too often a thuggish minority effectively rules the majority.

    First of all Jim, it’s a lot easier to get rid of the 2% minority and be done with it. That’s only about 6.6 million we need to relocate to the Middle East or Africa. They seem to screw anything there. Secondly, what makes you think a 50.1% majority is any less thuggish than a 2% minority? You were present in class for the last presidential elections weren’t you?

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  51. 50.how much camping do scouts actually do in real life?

    The only one that matters is the one he’s raped on.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  52. i would think the bigger worry would be ticks and mosquitoes honestly Mr. Hoagie

    and after that bears and fireants

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  53. “La situacion hacer el ladron”

    Translate and you will know why allowing Gay Men as Scout Masters is not a good idea.

    Gay men would make great Girl Scouts however.

    Rodney King's Spirit (9225a4)

  54. My guess is when a muscled Scoutmaster has his d!ck up your a$$ the ticks and mosquitoes seem irrelevant to the whole camping experience.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  55. oh my goodness

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  56. This news makes me sad to be a former Boy Scout.

    This news also makes me happy that I don’t have boy children. On the other hand, I’ll have to explain to my girls why they can’t be in Girl Scouts.

    egd (1ad898)

  57. the boy scouts still aren’t as gay as pinterest

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  58. The Girl Scouts long ago diverted into Lesbian Prep Camp. Now the need for a Christian boys’ group is greater than ever. A shame the end of a very old and proud group is coming near now.

    Estragon (ada867)

  59. Don’t be sad ,egd. I was a Cub and Boy Scout and loved every minute of it. Being from Philly scouting was my real connection to nature, adventure and self reliance. I learned archery, fencing, wrestling, boating and canoeing, how to build a fire, catch dinner and tell scary stories around a campfire. I spent the entire summer at a Scout camp in the Poconos and it was great. Some of my best experiences as a kid were from the Scouts.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  60. Perhaps those of us living in the Keystone State recall a little more intensely the case of former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, and how he started the charity Second Mile, which might not have been done just to give him access to young boys to “groom” for sex, but the results sure made it seem like it was.

    Of course, Mr Sandusky wasn’t homosexual, nosireebob! He was an upstanding member of the State College community, married to a woman, and as straight as he could be! Right up until his upstanding member got him in real, real trouble.

    The Dana in Pennsylvania (f6a568)

  61. boy scouts is a stupid anachronistic club with gay uniforms for lazy and or cheap parents what aren’t trying terribly hard to nurture for reals Talent and Ability in their kid
    they just don’t wanna pay a babysitter

    they don’t even have tasty cookies

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 7/28/2015 @ 7:37 am

    Whasamatter, Happyfeet? Was your application for Cub Scout denied?

    Bill H (2a858c)

  62. It irks me to no end that men having sex with boys is constantly termed pedophilia in an attempt to cover up the truth. Men having sex with boys is homosexual pedophilia. Having sex with kids is pedophilia. But once boys enter the equation the dudes a fag.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  63. they’re just stupid plus scout camp is so ghetto compared to other more expensive private summer camps

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  64. So then you’ve been to Scout camp and that’s your opinion, happyfeet? Or are you speaking without knowledge or experience? Sounds like you prefer Camp Granada, the Jewish summer camp. (apologies to Alan Sherman)

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  65. yes i went to scout camp it had scorpions but it didn’t have any girls there or a golf course or telescopes for to learn about the constellations or bottomless kool-aid

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  66. they’re just stupid plus scout camp is so ghetto compared to other more expensive private summer camps

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 7/28/2015 @ 1:32 pm

    Got it. You prefer not learning to do anything for yourself.

    Bill H (2a858c)

  67. that is hyperbole

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  68. Greetings:

    These days, I wonder if anybody even knows how homosex got out of the diagnostic manual.

    11B40 (0f96be)

  69. Hello Mudda, hello Fadda,
    Here I am at Camp Colada
    Camp is very entertaining,
    What I’ve seen so far is going to need explaining

    I went hiking with Scoutmaster
    It was really a disaster
    He asked if he could wrestle with me
    And the hold he had me in you really should see

    The den leaders all wore dresses
    And a ribbon in their tresses
    The scoutmaster loves these sissies,
    Cuz they don’t complain when they go down on their knees

    Colonel Haiku (c5bbac)

  70. i did not i went to a very very deeply spiritual evangelical summer camp in arkansas where i learned that first is third and we sang many songs about jesus plus also horses were involved

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  71. My guess is when a muscled Scoutmaster has his d!ck up your a$$ the ticks and mosquitoes seem irrelevant to the whole camping experience.

    I guess you could say the same thing about a priest.

    Gil (febf10)

  72. priests don’t go camping jesus christ america

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  73. Gil is a one-trick pony.

    JD (34f761)

  74. Or an atheist A-hole troll…

    Colonel Haiku (c5bbac)

  75. Oh, wait… he’d be the one brushing off the ticks…

    Colonel Haiku (c5bbac)

  76. I guess you could say the same thing about a priest.

    We did mention priests Gil. Don’t let your anti Christian bigotry keep you from keeping up with the grown ups. This thread is about fag Scouts, not fag priests.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  77. # 60 Perhaps those of us living in the Keystone State recall a little more intensely the case of former Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, and how he started the charity Second Mile, which might not have been done just to give him access to young boys to “groom” for sex, but the results sure made it seem like it was.

    Of course, Mr Sandusky wasn’t homosexual, nosireebob! He was an upstanding member of the State College community, married to a woman, and as straight as he could be! Right up until his upstanding member got him in real, real trouble.

    The Dana in Pennsylvania (f6a568) — 7/28/2015 @ 12:59 pm

    A point that both Dana & I have made repeatedly is that homosexuality doesnot = pedophile. However, it is the access to the young children that is the problem.

    Almost all scout leaders, almost all coaches of youth sports come from the parents of the children participating in the sport/youth group. It is the sub set of the population that has none of their own children involved in the activity that has a high percentage of pedophiles.

    joe (debac0)

  78. We did mention priests Gil. Don’t let your anti Christian bigotry keep you from keeping up with the grown ups. This thread is about fag Scouts, not fag priests.

    Ive said many times I dont hate Christians. Yelling at someone that they hate Christians because they disagree with them is about the same as yelling at someone that they hate black people when they disagree with Obama. Dont you think? Why do you do it?

    Gil (febf10)

  79. A point that both Dana & I have made repeatedly is that homosexuality doesnot = pedophile.

    I applaud your keen understanding of social dynamics and tolerance. A truly forward thinking comment that definately need to be expressed in this forumn. Let me just suggest that “doesnot =” is more efficiently written “”

    Gil (febf10)

  80. Gil is projecting again.

    JD (34f761)

  81. It does equal “pederast”. They do like them their young boys. That’s what the term “chickenhawk” means. Like these “guys”: http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/23/politics/terry-bean-sex-abuse-charges/ (Autoplay ad warning.)

    nk (dbc370)

  82. Had a red tailed hawk land in our tree one time. Cleaned out the pigeons I think.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  83. Not “yelling” at you Gil. Just pointing out that one long continuous anti Christian rant from thread to thread to thread is not needed. We get your point. You disagree. You don’t need to attempt to berate Christians, Catholics, priests, nuns, ministers or any one else every time you post. Isn’t there one other thing you think about or one other idea you can contribute without making a remark about God or religion? Or does the existence of God bother you so much you’re pathological about Him? Why else would you expend so much time and print on something you don’t believe in?

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  84. I get squeamish whenever a long-standing policy is jettisoned without anyone acknowledging the good reasons for that policy to exist in the first place.

    The Boy Scouts feature lots of overnight camping. It is completely reasonable that they would want to set up a situation wherein the supervising parents are inherently not sexually attracted to any of the young men they are spending overnights with out in the woods. It’s not that gay men are paedophiles; it’s just that we wouldn’t want men taking a bunch of high school girls out into the woods for camping, either.

    The Boy Scouts have spent a century successfully avoiding a reputation for impropriety, despite lots of alone time between adults and teenagers. That is a very valuable thing in their group.

    bridget (248d93)

  85. #56 dang it… way too autobiographical in tone!!!

    Colonel Haiku (c5bbac)

  86. Gil is more of a zealot than any of the religious nut jobs he wails against.

    JD (34f761)

  87. What he hates is what he has become.

    ropelight (a1c201)

  88. 88.#56 dang it… way too autobiographical in tone!!!

    It was supposed to drive the point home not make me the butt of the statement!!!

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  89. Why else would you expend so much time and print on something you don’t believe in?

    Hoagie (f4eb27) — 7/28/2015 @ 3:47 pm

    It’s simple, Hoagie- Gil is one of those zealously militant atheists who have yet to come to terms with his beliefs. Somehow, he thinks hating on God makes him stronger. All he’s doing here is exposing just how extraordinarily weak he is.

    Gil, I have a suggestion, one atheist to another: grow up. God doesn’t exist for you, bur He does for millions others. You ain’t changing that. You may as well stop now.

    Bill H (2a858c)

  90. that is hyperbole

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 7/28/2015 @ 1:44 pm

    If you don’t want it mistaken, say what you mean. Say what you intend clearly and without hyperbole. Make your intention so that I can’t interpret it incorrectly. Otherwise, with your writing style (yes- it’s almost unique), the difference between correct and incorrect assumption isn’t very much at all.

    Too bad you no longer live in N. Hollywood. I was considering wanting to meet up with you at some point.

    Bill H (2a858c)

  91. that would’ve been fun I miss the old neighborhood something awful

    was just thinking about that vegan place on lankershim

    happyfeet (831175)

  92. That’s just it Bill H. I don’t care if a guy’s an atheist. I have a couple friends who are. So what. It’s none of my business once we get past the obligatory discussion about our belief differences the point becomes moot. I have more of a problem with moslems than atheists. I never met an atheist that posed a threat to our country or our way of life. But with Gil it’s constant din over his atheism and it’s old, very old. It’s not even interesting it’s boring. Like you seem like a nice enough fellow but you don’t wave your atheism like a baseball bat at the head of burglar. I just hope there’s more to Gil than just being an atheist because life’s too short to limit one’s interests. I just wish he’d stay on topic for non-existent god’s sake.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  93. that would’ve been fun I miss the old neighborhood something awful

    was just thinking about that vegan place on lankershim

    happyfeet (831175) — 7/28/2015 @ 5:26 pm

    Yah- I worked the 6900 block on Beck. Just a couple blocks off Lankershim. Oh well. That was a while ago, now…

    That’s just it Bill H. I don’t care if a guy’s an atheist. I have a couple friends who are. So what. It’s none of my business once we get past the obligatory discussion about our belief differences the point becomes moot. I have more of a problem with moslems than atheists. I never met an atheist that posed a threat to our country or our way of life. But with Gil it’s constant din over his atheism and it’s old, very old. It’s not even interesting it’s boring. Like you seem like a nice enough fellow but you don’t wave your atheism like a baseball bat at the head of burglar. I just hope there’s more to Gil than just being an atheist because life’s too short to limit one’s interests. I just wish he’d stay on topic for non-existent god’s sake.

    Hoagie (f4eb27) — 7/28/2015 @ 5:45 pm

    I don’t either. My problem is with atheists who believe that God NEEDS- not just should be, but needs- to be excluded in virtually every instance of public life. It ain’t gonna happen. Those kooks need to be happy with who they are and come to terms with how they feel. After all this time, nobody still cannot explain to me how something that doesn’t exist bothers them so badly. I genuinely don’t get it.

    Bill H (2a858c)

  94. I have more of a problem with moslems than atheists. I never met an atheist that posed a threat to our country or our way of life.

    Yeah… Gil is more a threat to himself than anything. Poor bastard…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  95. I never met an atheist that posed a threat to our country or our way of life.

    Me neither. I’m too young for the Nazis or the Korean War, and never traveled to the Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Southeast Asia ….

    nk (dbc370)

  96. A palate cleanser from the “They Don’t Write Like That Anymore” files:

    “If I take you to the place— they will kill me.”
    Jo Gar shrugged.
    “And if you do not take me— I will kill you,” he said. “It is a difficult position.”
    The driver said: “I am a poor man—”
    The Island detective nodded.
    “Then you have less to live for,” he replied. “Let us start.”

    (2012-05-09). The Black Lizard Big Book of Black Mask Stories (Vintage Crime/Black Lizard Original) (p. 476). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

    nk (dbc370)

  97. Let’s be honest here: homosexuals cannot reproduce,

    Dana, I’m surprised you make that claim when in another post you do point out the story of Jerry Sandusky, and even though all his children were adopted, there are plenty of other cases of self-described gays who’ve had traditional straight relationships and sired children the old-fashioned way. That’s why the “B” in GLBT is worth emphasizing and runs counter to the left’s claim that homosexuality should not be characterized as a matter of free choice, free will.

    Parents involved in the BSA from here on out really need to start forming an informal yet thorough blacklisting or shunning of any troop leader known to be homosexual.

    Mark (e9ce45)

  98. @Hoagie

    Not “yelling” at you Gil. Just pointing out that one long continuous anti Christian rant from thread to thread to thread is not needed.

    No you did not point that out, you claimed I had anti Christian bigotry. Fine you didnt yell. Can you explain why it is ok for you to call me a bigot for disagreeing, but not ok for people to call you a racist when you disagree with Obama.

    Isn’t there one other thing you think about or one other idea you can contribute without making a remark about God or religion? Or does the existence of God bother you so much you’re pathological about Him?

    Sure there is, I posted in that Ted Cruz thread about the sanctuary cities. Also nice way to smuggle in the existence of God. No it does not bother me because there is no rational reason to believe it. Doe the existence of Zeuss bother you?

    Gil (4e1585)

  99. Gil, you might give some thought to moving to Iraq or any other land that Obama has left for ISIL to terrorize. They are like-minded in that they are exterminating Christians, which you should find appealing.

    Colonel Haiku (c5bbac)

  100. It’s simple, Hoagie- Gil is one of those zealously militant atheists who have yet to come to terms with his beliefs. Somehow, he thinks hating on God makes him stronger. All he’s doing here is exposing just how extraordinarily weak he is.

    @Bill

    Hi Hoagie, can you demonstrate where I have “hated on God”? Of course I dont hate him. I just dont accept any of the various God claims. We are almost the same, you dont accept many God claims. Does that mean you hate Zeuss, Osiris, Vishnu etc? I just go one step further. Why is that hate?

    Furthermore, just because I express views on a subject important to me why have I not come to terms with my beliefs? Many people on here repeatedly post on many issues such as gay marriage, does the frequency in which the post also mean they have not come to terms with their beliefs? Why is only a position opposed to yours under attack in this way? Maybe it is you who is uncertain not wanting to hear the other side.

    Gil (4e1585)

  101. Gil, you might give some thought to moving to Iraq or any other land that Obama has left for ISIL to terrorize. They are like-minded in that they are exterminating Christians, which you should find appealing.

    Hi Col.
    This is the best you can do? Make up a position for me and stake me out on it as if I am comparable to ISIL? When have I ever said I was in favor of exterminating Christians? Good grief.

    Gil (4e1585)

  102. Goodness gracious, everyone with a modicum of sense knows this whole farce is nothing but a lefty strategy to dismantle the Boy Scouts. It has nothing to do whether the youngsters may or may not be gay. It has nothing to do with leaders who may or may not be gay.

    You can’t destroy a social construct you disagree with unless you destroy its foundations.

    All-in-all another liberal meddle looking for a government solution. For the children.

    Sorry, happy, but you are wrong on this one and I suspect you have no idea why.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  103. It’s not enough to bow – they are required to bend over.

    John Moore (841e4f)

  104. Correction to 103, it is addressed to Bill, I am not proofreading myself very well. Apologies.

    Gil (4e1585)

  105. Gil… if I ever “stake you out on” anything, trust that you’ll either be drenched in honey and getting better acquainted with a colony of fire ants or peddling your butt on a corner in West Hollywood.

    Colonel Haiku (c5bbac)

  106. You’ll mos def be learning to “turn teh other cheek”, but in a way much more appropriate for an atheist.

    I keed, I keed.

    Colonel Haiku (c5bbac)

  107. That’s the best I got tonight, Gil. For you, anyway.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  108. Sorry, happy, but you are wrong on this one and I suspect you have no idea why.

    I’m not sure if some of that is due to his own resistance in saying casually and forthrightly that he’s never had an intimate relationship with another guy and doesn’t ever plan to.

    BTW, there has long been talk of “closeted gays,” but the life story of quite a few self-described homosexuals suggests that “closeted straights” may be an equally or actually more common phenomenon. A case in point:

    Observer.com, December 2012: Prior to meeting Mr. [Bill] de Blasio [New York City’s current mayor], Ms. [Chirlane] McCray identified as a lesbian and had several long-term relationships with other women. In a seven-page essay she wrote for the September 1979 issue of Essence magazine entitled “I am a Lesbian” she frankly discussed her sexuality and expressed gratitude that she came to terms with her preference for women before marrying a man. “I survived the tears, the isolation and the feeling that something was terribly wrong with me for loving another woman” Ms. McCray wrote. “Coming to terms with my life as a lesbian has been easier for me than it has been for many. Since I don’t look or dress like the typical bulldagger, I have a choice as to whether my sexual preference is known.”

    She added, “I have also been fortunate because I discovered my preference for women early, before getting locked into a traditional marriage and having children.”

    Through a campaign spokesperson Ms. McCray told Capital New York’s Azi Paybarah: “In the 1970’s, I identified as a lesbian and wrote about it. In 1991, I met the love of my life, married him.” It is unclear how she transitioned from a self-described lesbian who was confident that she “had always been more attracted to women, both emotionally and physically, than to men” to a political wife in a heterosexual marriage.

    Mark (e9ce45)

  109. I keed, I keed.

    That’s the best I got tonight, Gil. For you, anyway.

    This reminds me of the way John Stewart flips his “Im only a comedian” switch when he is called out on something. Have a good one.

    Gil (4e1585)

  110. Correction to 103, it is addressed to Bill, I am not proofreading myself very well. Apologies.

    Gil (4e1585) — 7/28/2015 @ 8:37 pm

    Not a problem. Simple mistake, we got ya covered.

    @Bill

    Hi Hoagie, can you demonstrate where I have “hated on God”? Of course I dont hate him. I just dont accept any of the various God claims. We are almost the same, you dont accept many God claims. Does that mean you hate Zeuss, Osiris, Vishnu etc? I just go one step further. Why is that hate?

    Furthermore, just because I express views on a subject important to me why have I not come to terms with my beliefs? Many people on here repeatedly post on many issues such as gay marriage, does the frequency in which the post also mean they have not come to terms with their beliefs? Why is only a position opposed to yours under attack in this way? Maybe it is you who is uncertain not wanting to hear the other side.

    Gil (4e1585) — 7/28/2015 @ 8:26 pm

    But let’s get on with the main posting, shall we?

    This:

    I guess you could say the same thing about a priest.

    Gil (febf10) — 7/28/2015 @ 2:28 pm

    Is an incredibly snotty statement. We’ve all heard the allegations, witnessed the proof, and viewed the punishment and the lawsuits that happens in most of these cases. What I want to know is, why here? What I saw before your post were comparisons, not allegations. Yes, I did read what you referred to- a poorly thought out “of the minute” response itself.

    The real problem I have with this is I see this sort of posting repeated ad nauseum, and it leads me to believe your dislike- I can say that, right?- your seeming dislike of anything related to religion is more than just visceral. It seems to go right to the bone.

    You can express views all you want. However, you shouldn’t act surprised when you get snapped at for those views.

    I make no claims to God or His Grace. I also do not discount it for others. Paraphrasing what was once famously said, that’s well above my pay grade. If being near God works for you, excellence. If not, that’s OK too. But since God is such a personal aspect in other’s lives, how about not so much denigration of it?

    Bill H (2a858c)

  111. Have a good one.

    Gil (4e1585) — 7/28/2015 @ 9:37 pm

    ‘night, Gil. Later on.

    Bill H (2a858c)

  112. Gil, are you like the guy at Salon who thinks believing in God is a mental illness that should be grounds for involuntary placement in an asylum?

    kishnevi (93670d)

  113. @Kishnevi

    Gil, are you like the guy at Salon who thinks believing in God is a mental illness that should be grounds for involuntary placement in an asylum?

    No, I do think people are mistaken or even deluded on the matter but it is not a mental condition. Characterizing opposing beliefs as a mental disorder is something Ill leave to respected radio talk show hosts such as Mark Levin (who I like to listen to by the way)

    @Bill

    Is an incredibly snotty statement.

    You’re right it was, but I was replying to a post about “a muscled scoutmaster with a D in your A” etc.

    and it leads me to believe your dislike- I can say that, right?- your seeming dislike of anything related to religion is more than just visceral. It seems to go right to the bone.

    There you go now this is much more fair. I have disdain for religion. Being told though that I hate God, or dislike God, or am bigoted toward Christians is not. I would say that I also have disdain for the economic mindset that promotes minimum wage laws, but not that I am bigoted toward liberals right? See the difference?

    You can express views all you want. However, you shouldn’t act surprised when you get snapped at for those views.

    I dont mind being snapped at, but lets do it on the merits of the argument.

    I make no claims to God or His Grace. I also do not discount it for others. Paraphrasing what was once famously said, that’s well above my pay grade. If being near God works for you, excellence. If not, that’s OK too. But since God is such a personal aspect in other’s lives, how about not so much denigration of it?

    I dont think any subject should be taboo. I mean you could say the same sentence about anything. Maybe some other outrageous, irrational belief such as 9/11 conspiracy theorists or people who claim fairies exist is a very “personal aspect” for them. Should we not be allowed denigrate that belief? If someone wants to believe in God, great have at it. But I have the right and in my view even the responsibility to disagree. They are affecting me in public life by advocating for public policies based on it. Furthermore they are even affecting society by raising kids who believe it.

    Now im late for work! Doht!

    Gil (4e1585)

  114. a priest and a muscled scoutmaster walk into a bar

    the bartender says what you havin’?

    and they both giggle maniacally and say, “cub scouts please!”

    and the bartender just smiles

    “coming right up” he says

    happyfeet (831175)

  115. She didn’t look like woman who could lead a Boy Scout troop on a three-day camping trip in the Sierras. Not in those 6-inch stilettos and fishnet stocking held up by a garter belt which peeked under the shorts of the Scout Master’s uniform. That’s because “she” wasn’t. He was Bruce Lance, Scoutmaster of Hollywood Troop 69, and “camp” meant something entirely different to him.

    “Alright, Thcoutth”, he called, “today we are going to work on our Pedicure Merit Badge, applying the polithh”. The betht way to do it ith with the buddy thythtem. Everybody pair up with your favorite tentmate. You will be doing each other’th toenailth, taking turnth. No, Dwayne, not in your pup tent. Thatth for later. Out here where I’ll thiow all of you the right way.”

    nk (dbc370)

  116. thank thew, nk.

    mg (31009b)

  117. there’s no such thing as Bruce you made him up!

    happyfeet (831175)

  118. His real name is Horace Fogelmeyer. Bruce Lance is his Hollywood name.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. #82 A point that both Dana & I have made repeatedly is that homosexuality doesnot = pedophile.

    I applaud your keen understanding of social dynamics and tolerance. A truly forward thinking comment that definately need to be expressed in this forumn. Let me just suggest that “doesnot =” is more efficiently written “”

    Gil (febf10) — 7/28/2015 @ 3:06 pm

    Gil – read the entire comment – It is the small subset of the gay population that wants to wants to interact with young boys/young teenagers that is the problem. It is that subset of the gay population that mirrors the other organizations that have had similar and significant problems.

    joe (debac0)

  120. It is Gil’s “responsibility” to fight Christianity and their beliefs. He is more of a zealot than I thought.

    JD (e9d375)

  121. Mark wrote:

    Let’s be honest here: homosexuals cannot reproduce,

    Dana, I’m surprised you make that claim when in another post you do point out the story of Jerry Sandusky, and even though all his children were adopted, there are plenty of other cases of self-described gays who’ve had traditional straight relationships and sired children the old-fashioned way. That’s why the “B” in GLBT is worth emphasizing and runs counter to the left’s claim that homosexuality should not be characterized as a matter of free choice, free will.

    I didn’t think it necessary to point out that homosexuals cannot reproduce without the participation of a normal person, but apparently, I do.

    I’ve heard that the vast majority of homosexuals do wind up having heterosexual intercourse at least a few times, while they are trying to figure themselves out, or whatever, and eventually decide that it isn’t really what they want. Nevertheless, my statement is valid: two homosexuals cannot reproduce with each other.

    The reproductive biologist Dana (f6a568)

  122. Read Moira Greyland’s story linked at my Comment 13 and you’ll see how they do it.

    nk (dbc370)

  123. And why.

    nk (dbc370)

  124. I’ve been involved as a volunteer adult leader in Scouting for the past 18 years, holding a variety of positions, including Scoutmaster. Remember that at the troop level all positions are volunteer.

    My experience has been that the BSA policy on homosexuality has only been an issue for those with no desired involvement in Scouting and/or a misunderstanding of its activities or goals. The last time I checked there is no spot on the youth application for membership or application to be an adult leader to indicate sexual orientation. Most scouts join troops in the middle of or end of fifth grade.

    Adult leaders are required to obtain approval from their chartering organization and pass a background check by the BSA before approval. The Catholic and Mormon churches supply the most chartered organizations in Scouting, so the local exception rule built into the new policy makes sense.

    Adult leaders are required to complete training on youth protection, which in my understanding was developed partly in response to prior instances of youth abuse and litigation. Adult leaders are never supposed to be alone with a single scout not their own son under the policy. Is there still potential for abuse? Absolutely, but adult leaders I know are acutely aware of the policy and act accordingly. Outside of weekly meetings I never meet with a scout to work on a merit badge or Eagle Project in a non-public place with other people around. The policy protects the youth as well as the leaders against false allegations of abuse.

    I agree that the changes were an end result of agitation by outside activists. I have no idea of its ultimate impact on Scouting. The only instances I have seen it become an issue is periodic harassment of my scouts by uninformed adults for policies which the youth neither set and in many cases do not understand while selling tickets to fund raisers.

    I am more concerned over the gradual infiltration of topics such as global warming into the Boy Scout program. Perhaps we will soon have a fetal organ harvesting merit badge.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  125. Read Moira Greyland’s story linked at my Comment 13 and you’ll see how they do it.

    I often don’t click on links but your emphasizing what you had posted convinced me to check it out. I hope Dana (and, yes, I understand what you mean or meant in strictly literal terms), Patterico and everyone else reads Greyland’s text because it should take various assumptions and presumptions that many (or most) people have about human behavior and force it right into the dumpster.

    I recall Patterico a few years ago, when explaining why he was sympathetic towards SSM, theorizing that since sexual orientation is so ingrained and immovable — in his case, for instance — that the same must hold true for most other people and implied it was therefore wrong to assume otherwise. I too was originally rather naive about just how extreme human behavior can become (eg, well before the recent case of Bill Cosby), but all the lurid social liberalism (or leftism, if you will) that has manifested in this culture quite recently has forced my eyes wide open.

    Mark (e9ce45)


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