Patterico's Pontifications

6/26/2015

News Outlet Will Now Very Strictly Limit Op-Eds And Letters In Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage (ADDED: Ironic That Same News Outlet Publishes Op-Ed Scolding People For Needing Safe Spaces) UPDATE: Editor Apologizes

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:49 pm

[guest post by Dana]

The writing is on the wall, or rather in an editorial, “The Supremes got it right – It’s no longer ‘gay marriage.’ It’s ‘marriage.’ And we’re better for it“:

On Friday, the United States crossed a similar threshold, continuing a long road to acceptance of same-sex unions.

And this news organization now crosses another threshold.

As a result of Friday’s ruling, PennLive/The Patriot-News will very strictly limit op-Eds and letters to the editor in opposition to same-sex marriage.

These unions are now the law of the land. And we will not publish such letters and op-Eds any more than we would publish those that are racist, sexist or anti-Semitic.

We will, however, for a limited time, accept letters and op-Eds on the high court’s decision and its legal merits.

The march of progress is often slow, but it is always steady.

On Friday, the United States took another step toward the ideal of equality envisioned by its founders. And we are all more free as a result.

PennLive reaches 3.3 million readers weekly.

Dana

ADDED: Op-ed from PennLive wherein the writer identifies those needing safe spaces from dissenting views:

For myself, when I think of a university, and reflect on my personal experiences, I think of a place to interact and share ideas to become a more educated and cognizant person.

Students can enter these “safe places” to take their minds off of whatever they just saw or heard. These rooms contain items often found in daycare centers, including coloring books, bubbles, play-doh, and videos of puppies.

I may sound inconsiderate, but if you really need to blow bubbles or play with play-doh to handle a different opinion, then my suggestion would be to not attend the event, and furthermore, maybe college isn’t the place for you either.

An educational setting should be a place where people are free to express their viewpoints without fear that someone might need to relapse back to childhood in order to deal with an opinion.

These safe spaces prevent growth. If you are attending a university, then you should expect to encounter different opinions and viewpoints. If not, then in reality it is you who is small-minded.

Even if you do not go to college, there are an estimated 7 billion people in this world, 300 million in the United States alone, it’s safe to say not everyone is going to agree with you, and it’s OK.

In fact, different viewpoints and life experiences is what makes life so interesting. It’s when people try to discount one’s experience and become intolerant to different held beliefs and values that we have trouble.

UPDATE: Editor John Micek, feeling a bit of push back for his decision to censor letters and op-eds in opposition to gay marriage, apologized this morning. After citing his exultation at the decision, and then noting the reaction to his tweets and op-ed regarding the new policy of censorship, Micek tells readers:

What almost immediately followed was an object lesson in the law of unintended consequences. And, sadly, the strongly worded message included in our editorial was lost.

By day’s end, I’d received dozens of emails and several phone calls — not to mention the hundreds of comments appended to the editorial — accusing me (and this news organization) of being “fascists” opposed to both the First Amendment and the right to freedom of expression.

And those were just the polite ones.

And as I rolled it over in my head yesterday, after hearing from professional colleagues and good friends on the right and left who questioned our policy, I reached a number of conclusions:

First: No one at PennLive and The Patriot-News is an opponent of the First Amendment. It’s a right that’s foundational to us as a people. And it’s a right for which many brave and noble men and women have given their lives. And I would never trample on that legacy or dishonor their sacrifice by limiting our readers’ right to express themselves in a civil way.

Second: And I cannot stress this one enough — that’s in a civil way. More than once yesterday I was referred to as “f****t-lover,” among other slurs. And that’s the point that I was trying to make with our statement: We will not publish such slurs any more than we would publish racist, sexist or anti-Semitic speech. There are ways to intelligently discuss an issue. The use of playground insults is not among them. And they are not welcome at PennLive/The Patriot-News.

Third: I fully recognize that there are people of good conscience and of goodwill who will disagree with Friday’s high court ruling. They include philosophers and men and women of the cloth whose objections come from deeply held religious and moral convictions that are protected by the very same First Amendment that allowed me to stick my foot in my mouth on Friday. They are, and always will be, welcome in these pages, along with all others of goodwill, who seek to have an intelligent and reasoned debate on the issues of the day.

These pages, I remind myself finally, belong to the people of Central Pennsylvania. I’m a conduit, I recognize, for them to share their views and to have the arguments that make us better as a people. And all views are — and always will be — welcome.

My mom — and probably yours too — once told me what the road to hell was paved with. Yesterday, I was reminded of the truth of that lesson.

I stand with my gay and lesbian friends who, on Friday, were extended the same protections under the law that the rest of us take for granted.

But for those of you who were offended by what was intended as a very genuine attempt at fostering a civil discussion, I apologize

Which is all fine and well, but PennLive already had an established policy for commenting on its pages, so why the need to go beyond that and actually censor commentators? Unless, of course, Micek’s original reaction was entirely about Something Else other than civil speech in the comments section. In which case, that would make the apology less than noble. And would reveal a dishonest heart.

UPDATE BY PATTERICO: From Alito’s dissent:

Today’s decision usurps the constitutional right of the people to decide whether to keep or alter the traditional understanding of marriage. The decision will also have other important consequences.

It will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy. In the course of its opinion, the majority compares traditional marriage laws to laws that denied equal treatment for African-Americans and women. E.g., ante, at 11–13. The implications of this analogy will be exploited by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent.

Perhaps recognizing how its reasoning may be used, the majority attempts, toward the end of its opinion, to reassure those who oppose same-sex marriage that their rights of conscience will be protected. Ante, at 26–27. We will soon see whether this proves to be true. I assume that those who cling to old beliefs will be able to whisper their thoughts in the recesses of their homes, but if they repeat those views in public, they will risk being labeled as bigots and treated as such by governments, employers, and schools.

And newspapers.

That didn’t take long.

144 Responses to “News Outlet Will Now Very Strictly Limit Op-Eds And Letters In Opposition To Same-Sex Marriage (ADDED: Ironic That Same News Outlet Publishes Op-Ed Scolding People For Needing Safe Spaces) UPDATE: Editor Apologizes”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. My, that didn’t take long.

    JD (3b5483)

  3. didn’t they used to call that ‘epistemic closure’?

    narciso (ee1f88)

  4. The march of progress is often slow, but it is always steady.

    And so, Allah willing, will be the demise of dead-tree publications like yours.

    Mark (a11af2)

  5. Funny, they don’t seem to have any problem publishing op-eds and letters about marijuana use and demands to legalize it.

    Dana (86e864)

  6. PennLive reaches 3.3 million readers weekly.

    That’s 1% of the population of the United States. When they get to 9 million, they’ll have all the LGBTs.

    nk (dbc370)

  7. Numbers are irrelevant, nk, and don’t mean what you think they mean, just like words. It’s all about narrative, perception and optics. Or something like that. The science is settled, the majority of Americans want it, and so it goes.

    Dana (86e864)

  8. Noteworthy to me is that they are openly saying this, instead of just silently sending letters to the circular file.

    I suppose they might simply being honest for a change.

    Or alternatively full of brazen confidence that they will be applauded by The Right Sort of People.

    kishnevi (93670d)

  9. well you see what their real complaint is:

    http://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2014/07/heres_how_the_capitalist_media.html

    narciso (ee1f88)

  10. JD,

    You know what else didn’t take long? Let’s legalize polygamy!

    Dana (86e864)

  11. of course, category error is rife with this publication:

    http://www.pennlive.com/opinion/2014/10/whats_the_matter_with_the_kans.html

    unfortunately Brownback seems to have assimilated it, subsequently,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  12. How long until they try to revoke tax exempt status from religious schools, churches, and organizations that do not go along with SSM redefinition?

    JD (3b5483)

  13. How long until this is an overt attack on religious freedom?

    JD (3b5483)

  14. With all due respect, and I mean that sincerely, this is why I tried to warn well meaning people such as our host and others such as Beldar that you can not have gay marriage and a First Amendment.

    None of it.

    From free speech to fee association.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkpdNtTgQNM

    2001 Obama WBEZ Interview Redistribution Wealth Warren Court

    “If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court. I think where it succeeded was to invest formal rights in previously dispossessed people, so that now I would have the right to vote. I would now be able to sit at the lunch counter and order as long as I could pay for it Id be o.k. But, the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society. To that extent, as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasnt that radical. It didnt break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties. Says what the states cant do to you. Says what the Federal government cant do to you, but doesnt say what the Federal government or State government must do on your behalf, and that hasnt shifted and one of the, I think, tragedies of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think there was a tendancy to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change. In some ways we still suffer from that.”

    Welcome to your fundamental transformation. Welcome to breaking free from the Constitution.

    This isn’t just a big change.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  15. 13. How long until this is an overt attack on religious freedom?
    JD (3b5483) — 6/26/2015 @ 7:28 pm

    What do you mean, “how long?” It already has been. As intended. The legal theory being the equal protection clause nullifies the First Amendment.

    A legal theory advanced by people motivated by hatred for our Bill of Rights.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  16. Dana@10.
    Not so fast.
    Or at least not as long as the primary group identified awith polygamy is schismatic Mormons. Lefties will never accept them as an oppressed group.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  17. well my former stinky fishwrap, had an informal ‘memory hole’ policy, which they made formal by requiring facebook links for comments,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  18. From Breitbart:

    Karen Finney, a top advisor for Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, declined to answer if she believes churches that refuse to perform same sex marriages should lose their tax exempt status. Responding to a question from Breitbart News, Finney dodged with, “honestly today just thinking about what this means for

    Dana (86e864)

  19. category error nearly as vast as ‘Penn still Alive’

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/news-columns-blogs/fabiola-santiago/article25622680.html

    narciso (ee1f88)

  20. Steve – I should have been more clear. Maybe now they will be honest about their overt attack. Until very recently, they still lied and tried to couch it in less objectionable terms.

    JD (3b5483)

  21. “…the majority of Americans want it, and so it goes.”

    Actually, it was five out of nine Americans that wanted it. They just happened to be on the Supreme Court.

    navyvet (c33501)

  22. The critical battles will be at the local level. Real estate and personal property taxes. Those will bankrupt churches quicker than losing federal tax exempt status. As non-profits, they show no taxable income at the end of the year, anyway. It would effect their donors. They would not be able to deduct their donations. But the devout could live with that.

    nk (dbc370)

  23. JD, we all could have been more clear, had we thought it necessary.

    Don’t worry about it.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  24. You know what else didn’t take long? Let’s legalize polygamy!

    As a person who finds SSM to be pathetic (analogous to handing out As and Bs to students who otherwise deserve no more than a C-, or D or F), and am not totally unamused by all the pro-SSM people who snicker at the idea of polygamy (hello, happyfeet!), I also admit to finding the idea of a guy with two or more wives as less cringeworthy than, in particular, a guy with a husband.

    The reason?

    There is more intrinsic human nature among more humans in general (in this case, the male portion) who approach monogamy as difficult or unnatural than the intrinsic human nature of those humans who find themselves sexually and emotionally drawn to members of their own gender. Simply put, there’s something more innately aberrant about Bruce and Bob compared with Bob, Susan and Helen. Of course, the left flips that reality on its head, and, naturally, are purposefully naive about it.

    Mark (a11af2)

  25. I hope you are able to cope, Mark.

    JD (3b5483)

  26. although I don’t see the great polygamist lobby, I know they can gin one up, re the Jenner chimera, but not at this time,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  27. Penn Live? Hah! This is the Newhouse empire, owners of the Newark Star Ledger, the 3 days a week Times-Picabooger and a host of others. Penn Live/Patriot News is the the rag of financially and morally bankrupt Harrisburg PA (Mark, you definitely need to add this place to your list). They also own Conde Nast, where I’m sure this policy has long been in place.

    I worked at a couple of their properties in the 90s and early 00s. What a sh1thole of a company. They keep the doors open with mandatory furloughs and several rounds of layoffs annually. Not long for this world. If you have a subscription to any of their pubs, and are the least bit troubled by their position, now might be a good time to call the Philippines and hasten their demise.

    Matador (1f55cc)

  28. 26. I hope you are able to cope, Mark.

    JD (3b5483) — 6/26/2015 @ 8:25 pm

    Personally I put my faith in our Lord Jesus and the flathead Ford.

    http://www.amazon.ca/How-Build-Flathead-Ford-V-8/dp/0760314934

    There’s hardly anything else you can can count on these days.

    Well, OK, the small block OHV Ford, the Cleveland Ford, the Ronco pocket fisherman, SEAL Team Six, Sweet Baby Ray’s barbecue sauce, the 55 – 57 Chevy, a nuclear aircraft carrier, but it’s a short list.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  29. pretty much any publication, insists on doubleplusgood thinking:

    http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-california-gay-marriage-20150627-story.html#page=1&panel=comments

    I’m sure the Dallas News isn’t far off,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  30. Actually, Jesus had a Honda. But he didn’t like to talk about it.
    “For I did not speak of my own Accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.”

    God had a Plymouth:
    “God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden in a Fury.”

    And a Pontiac and a Geo?
    “Pursue your enemies with your Tempest and terrify them with your Storm.”

    nk (dbc370)

  31. I hope you are able to cope, Mark.

    Washington (CNN)In the wake of Friday’s landmark Supreme Court ruling that allows same-sex couples nationwide to marry, the White House was illuminated in rainbow colors for the evening, a nod to the achievement of the gay rights movement.

    On Twitter, the official White House account displayed a rainbow-colored avatar of the presidential mansion.

    It would have been pure sarcasm not all that long ago to quip that in the near future a sitting (male) US president will come out and announce his holy matrimony to another guy.

    Mark (a11af2)

  32. micek, does not seem the sharpest knife in the drawer,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  33. Steve -‘Big twins. There is no replacement for displacement.

    JD (3b5483)

  34. If you say so, JD. I don’t doubt you.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  35. Any newspaper that writes an editorial with six consecutive single-sentence paragraphs is a horribly-written newspaper and doesn’t deserve anyone’s patronage anyway.

    JVW (8278a3)

  36. well there is that, if they had displayed any insight previously, I submitted the last two links as proof that’s unpossible for them, you would think they would be trawling for hits,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  37. Well, I married a Martian
    And boy, am I sorry

    Well, she came down from the sky
    She couldn’t stand the attitude there
    She took human form, not bad
    She seemed different
    She had a European flair
    And I said, “where you from?”
    And she said, she said, “I’m from Mars”

    I married a Martian
    Her loving is different
    Viva la diff=E9rence
    Every, every night
    I married a Martian
    I took her to Vegas
    I dressed her in ermine
    She had the time of her life

    Though she called me Mister Right
    I could sense something was wrong
    She was hardly home at all
    She’d keep telling me
    She was doing studies of Earth
    She had tendencies to flirt
    And it really did hurt me

    I married a Martian
    Boy, am I sorry
    I don’t recommend it
    To anyone in their right mind

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. I do note in passing that the fourth paragraph of the snippet that Dana provided above is technically two sentences, seeing as how the editorial writer apparently doesn’t know what a compound-complex sentence is.

    JVW (8278a3)

  39. the pride of Manhattanville College,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  40. nk, that was funny.

    Gazzer (be559b)

  41. How long until they try to revoke tax exempt status from religious schools, churches, and organizations that do not go along with SSM redefinition?

    Never.
    But they should do so immediately regardless of stance on SSM.
    Why the hell is the government giving religious institutions tax exempt status in the first place?

    Gil (4e1585)

  42. Why the hell is the government giving religious institutions tax exempt status in the first place?

    Why do colleges and universities have tax exempt status?

    JVW (8278a3)

  43. Thanks, Gazzer. A little humor is worth a bottle of Zoloft.

    nk (dbc370)

  44. I mean government should just be taking money anywhere they want, right Gil?

    JVW (8278a3)

  45. like the Kennedy trust, frankly Buffett doesn’t need of his income, right,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  46. Why do colleges and universities have tax exempt status?

    At least some of their studies are based on reality.

    I mean government should just be taking money anywhere they want, right Gil?

    I didnt say that JD, but to me they should be treated like any other corporation taking in money if they make profit. What makes them special in your opinion?

    Gil (4e1585)

  47. In the opinion of enough people to elect public officials who don’t think they should be taxed.

    nk (dbc370)

  48. Here’s a weird thing I just thought about.

    Citizens United is the absolute worse thing that ever happened according to the left. Regardless, the same court approved same-sex marriage and upheld Obamacare.

    So? I mean, really. Is the Supreme Court the greatest thing that ever happened or the most despicable group of people on the face of the Earth.

    Has any else noticed this dichotomy?

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  49. Santa is nice when he brings you the Gameboy and a big meanie when he doesn’t bring you the pony.

    nk (dbc370)

  50. ag80-@49

    You’re a gifted and credentialed writer. That sounds like an excellent point to make to that Op-ed and Letters to the Editor genius at PennLive during their “limited” period for comment.

    elissa (ea46f3)

  51. i’m a write a letter tell them oh my goodness i can’t belieber all this gay marriage

    happyfeet (831175)

  52. if there is any justice, the majority of their subscription base will cancel service.

    i would

    redc1c4 (34e91b)

  53. Happyfeet now the name makes sense. Weird how he’s lost his usual oriental accent though…

    Putin advisor that secretly admires the United States (48fb95)

  54. I don’t get it. Back when gay marriage was NOT the law of the land they allowed op-eds and editorials on the subject.

    Peter (c60400)

  55. Freedom of speech is for those who own newspapers.

    Freedom of thought ie for everyone, even those without brains.

    htom (4ca1fa)

  56. The only thing missing from the Editor’s censorship screed was a closing flourish of “sieg heil!”

    Guy Jones (173efd)

  57. “Or alternatively full of brazen confidence that they will be applauded by The Right Sort of People.”

    Exactly. This is a flag being raised to see how many salute it.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  58. I’ve updated the post with a new op-ed published in PennLive scolding those who need safe spaces from dissenting views. So ironic.

    Dana (86e864)

  59. Penn live doesn’t mind contrary opinions on the Second Amendment, even though the Supreme Court decided that in Heller 6 years before this op-ed. In addition, it still publishes letters that advocate for limits on those rights. As it should. It’s a shame to see newspapees, of all things, say people should not be able to say certain things.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  60. Good catch, Dana, and good blogging.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  61. Gil,

    I understand the position, BUT.

    Never, NEVER give a government an excuse to collect more taxes. There is no tax-exempt institution so vile that taking money from it and giving it to The Blob is an improvement.

    Also; when you get right down to it, although I favor Gay Marriage, I am leery of political positions too sacrosanct for opposition to be tolerated. They make me itch. That some Churches are going to maintain that Gay Marriage is blasphemy is not cause to visit the wrath of the State upon them. I think they’re wrong. I also think they have a right to be wrong, and that belaboring them over it is a tendency toward fascism that should not be tolerated in the State.

    These Churches have a right to exist, so long as they do not flat out advocate harming people (and hurting their feelings doesn’t count, dammit). The KKK has a right to exist. So does the American Nazi Party. It may be that the only purpose they serve is as mine-canaries, but the State must not be allowed to suppress them.

    C. S. P. Schofield (a196fd)

  62. Gil is just precious

    JD (a17707)

  63. Did Gil just say that government makes profit?

    DRJ (1dff03)

  64. well more partisan nonprofits should have their status reviewed, media matters for one, american bridge for another, but that would occasion vapors, the left wants their monopoly
    on opinion, reinforced,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  65. 1 “All we want is to be out of the shadows.”
    2 “All we want is acceptance”
    3 “All we want is equality”
    4 “Your view belongs in the shadows.”

    – Hale Razor

    teh Science is settled.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. narrative seems to be infinitely malleable doesnt it

    narciso (ee1f88)

  67. Even by normally hyper-sensitive, debate-stifling Leftist standards, PennLive’s editors really can’t countenance dissent, can they?

    The following comment was removed less than two minutes after I had posted it:

    “It’s remarkable how incredibly un-self-aware and unabashed Leftists are with respect to their reflexive, totalitarian impulses for silencing debate and stifling viewpoints at odds with their allegedly inviolable orthodoxies.”

    I guess they basically proved my point, LOL. My God, these people are so thoroughly infantile. This is the attitude that is now prevalent in academia, in law, in government, and, increasingly, in business — dissent from Leftist orthodoxies cannot be tolerated.

    Guy Jones (173efd)

  68. no it’s still there, sometimes they do display their taste for shoe leather,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  69. DRJ – Gil, on his best day, is a mental midget.

    JD (a17707)

  70. 59. 1984, it’s a cookbook:

    http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/26/post-obergefell-dissent-is-now-the-highest-form-of-bigotry/

    narciso (ee1f88) — 6/27/2015 @ 7:20 am

    Would it be inappropriate to note here that the confederate battle flag dust up, is not about the confederate battle flag?

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  71. My God, these people are so thoroughly infantile.

    But, of course.

    “If you are not a liberal at twenty, you have no heart and if you are not conservative at thirty, you have no brain.”

    BTW, most of the people in question are considerably past their 20th birthday.

    Mark (a11af2)

  72. Each day, newspaper editors arbitrarily decide which letters and op-ed to publish and routinely use that power to frame the conversation to suit their agenda. (Remember Ellie Light?) But generally they act like they’re fair. This time the let the mask slip.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  73. How much longer will it be before a new journalism award is named in honor of Walter Duranty? His ghost is alive and well in the American newsroom and in editorial board meeting rooms.

    Guy Jones (173efd)

  74. yes it’s the just designated ‘two minute hate’

    narciso (ee1f88)

  75. Why the hell is the government giving religious institutions tax exempt status in the first place?

    Gil (4e1585) — 6/26/2015 @ 9:37 pm

    Generally the government grants tax exempt status to non-profit organizations. Religious institutions qualify as that. It seems Gil would want to make some exception for religious organizations on the grounds that the gummint should make an official finding that there’s no God and therefore that their beliefs are wrong. I propose we eliminate the tax exempt status of atheist organizations, since their beliefs are wrong – and also on the grounds that they seem to be unhinged.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  76. This used to be the best deal in work gloves.

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Wells-Lamont-2-Pack-Suede-Cowhide-Leather-Palm-Work-Glove/21151526

    The gloves used to come in a three pack for about 18 bucks.

    And for all I know it still may be the best deal in work gloves. I haven’t priced them for a while. I picked up several three packs, and I still have six or seven pair to work through.

    I had occasion to think of this as I was trying to clean up the mess the last wind storm made of my trees. Foolishly, I wasn’t wearing gloves.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  77. Checking John Micek’s (editor)twitter feed, his original statement made about censoring op-eds and letters was:

    From the edit: “PL/PN will no longer accept, nor will it print, op-Eds and letters to the editor in opposition to same-sex marriage.”


    He then tweeted:

    This is not hard: We would not print racist, sexist or anti-Semitc letters. To that, we add homophobic ones. Pretty simple.


    This followed by his updated comments at the link in the post.

    Dana (86e864)

  78. I am updating the post with Micek’s apology to readers this morning…

    Dana (86e864)

  79. Ah “gay” love–which once upon a time “dared not speak its name” is now the love that just won’t STFU.

    Comanche Voter (1d5c8b)

  80. Update added.

    Dana (86e864)

  81. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1993-11-09/news/9311090802_1_condoms-church-service-gay-activists

    When something like this happens at a mosque, please let me know. I’ve got a bottle of cheap port I need a reason to open. Meantime, there’s cardboardeaux.

    Richard Aubrey (f6d8de)

  82. Dana, I’m going to wander off the reservation and offer a homophobic remark.

    Homophobic = fake mental disease

    Homophobic remark = inconvenient truth

    The real problem isn’t that we have people like Hitler or Stalin or Lenin or Pol Pot who are aching to be dictators. The real problem is that we have people like John Micek who are aching for dictators.

    The old Soviet Union didn’t try to find out who was a homosexual in order to blackmail them into betraying their country. They tried to find out who was a homosexual in order to figure out who they didn’t need to blackmail. Who would, like news editor John Micek and the First Amendment, willingly betray their country.

    This is not to say all gay people are traitors. Just that profiling works. And Bradly/Chelsea Manning represents the mother lode. You can not stop someone like Manning from betraying the country even after the USSR goes out of business.

    This also isn’t to say that homosexuality is the only thing someone like Putin is going to look at as an indicator (what’s up, Snowden).

    But it is an indicator. Horses run faster when they genuinely want to run. Ballerinas dance better when they want to truly want to dance. Spies spy better when they really, eagerly want to spy*.

    The reason to bar gays from the military was never that they could be blackmailed into spying for an enemy. The reason to bar them from the military was that they would not have to be blackmailed.

    This is something to keep in mind following the OPM give-away (it was not a hack). The Chinese, and their friends, will not be scouring the data primarily to find some unwilling person to blackmail into working for them. They will first be scouring the data to find someone willing to work for them.

    (*If there is something they need from a specific program that no participant is willing to provide them, then blackmail is the fall back position.)

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  83. Dana – Micek is a liar.

    JD (3b5483)

  84. Second: And I cannot stress this one enough — that’s in a civil way. More than once yesterday I was referred to as “f****t-lover,” among other slurs. And that’s the point that I was trying to make with our statement: We will not publish such slurs any more than we would publish racist, sexist or anti-Semitic speech. There are ways to intelligently discuss an issue. The use of playground insults is not among them. And they are not welcome at PennLive/The Patriot-News.

    I want to see the evidence. Because I don’t believe this dude. I doubt anyone opposed to SSM wrote a letter to the editor calling the editor a “f****t-lover.” I wouldn’t doubt for an instant that the editor and his friends characterized what the letter writers were saying in that way. Because they have no other way of articulating the feed back.

    This is the problem when you have people who should never have graduated from the fifth grade in charge of publishing news.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  85. Nitwits like John Micek tend to be the exact same ones who rationalize away Islamism and its fanatical devotees, if only through such liberals’ adoration of political correctness and the idea that compassion (but as they define it) can never be too excessive.

    The dichotomy and contradictions of such people are both fascinating and repulsive. Consequently, if they end up the victim of their own stupidity, by inculcating Fort-Hood-type events or nurturing ever-widening versions of the city of Detroit or a Mexico (but ones in which they can’t easily pick up and move) or European-ized Sharia Law, so be it. Regrettably, however, they all too often do find the escape hatch at the last minute by voting with their feet and the moving van.

    Mark (a11af2)

  86. Another lying liar reveals himself.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  87. I wonder who it was who told him he had to “apologize”.

    elissa (5d0e3e)

  88. 88. Another lying liar reveals himself.

    DRJ (1dff03) — 6/27/2015 @ 9:29 am

    So, I wouldn’t believe the evidence, unless an independent and disinterested third party could validate it.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  89. he really is a eloi, running for the bunker,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  90. Ah, and this was the KumBaYa moment that Micek admits caused him to momentarily forget he’s supposed to be a professional and unbiased journalist.

    A smile lit up her face and there were tears in her eyes. Up until about 10 a.m. on Friday, my gay colleague sat on pins and needles, waiting to see if nine lawyers were about to throw the life and her and her partner into absolute upheaval.

    We embraced and I offered my congratulations. And then I sat down and thought about what had just happened and what it meant to my other gay and lesbian colleagues who were rightfully celebrating Friday’s ruling as a victory for both love and equal protection under the law.

    elissa (5d0e3e)

  91. He claims now that he was trying to foster civil discussion by banning one point of view from their pages.

    JD (3b5483)

  92. that was a Marcuse hallmark, no, ‘repressive tolerance’

    narciso (ee1f88)

  93. I think his fake lying apology is almost as bad as his initial fascist response. He is dishonest.

    JD (3b5483)

  94. Once again a lying, phony, hypocritical leftist got caught with his pecker in his hand. So now it’s time to double down and lie about the lie in the hope of obfuscating his initial intensions of anti American censorship. Good luck with that, liar.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  95. gay and lesbian colleagues

    The fact that many or most people feel a need to categorize the homosexuality of a male differently from that of a female — in effect, making that entire group sound like a strange sub-species — is by its very nature a reflection of the oddness of that aspect of human behavior, of both the observer (ie, an insistence on calling a male “gay” and a female “lesbian”) and the subjects (ie, the male and female homosexuals) he or she is observing and describing.

    Mark (a11af2)

  96. 94. that was a Marcuse hallmark, no, ‘repressive tolerance’

    narciso (ee1f88) — 6/27/2015 @ 10:00 am

    I believe I owe you an ice cream cone.

    Steve57 (ec1eac)

  97. I stand with my gay and lesbian friends who, on Friday, were extended the same protections under the law that the rest of us take for granted.

    And this is a big damn lie. His “gay and lesbian friends” always had the exact same rights as anyone else since marrying someone of the opposite sex was just as legal for them as us. What they wanted was to twist 10,000 years of human experience into their own perverted definition because a civil union just wasn’t good enough for their needs. Let the buggering of society begin. What could possibly go wrong with legalized pot and queer “marriage”?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  98. Someone posted that this rag reaches 3MM people in Central PA.
    There are going to be a lot of bird-cages that go unlined, and dogs that will forego training.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  99. I read that 3MM number too, askeptic. I’m a Pennsylvanian and there is now wa 3MM people from the most huntin’ist, most drinkin’ist, most shootin’ist part of the state are reading a rag like that. Those guys out there are the classic “bitter clingers” and they’re proud of it.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27)

  100. Sweat’s on the run
    he took his gun and ran and hid
    yeah Davey take your gun and hide
    yourself away
    Sweaty’s on the run

    #SweetBsides #WorstofSweet

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  101. Of course he’s lying.

    Voltaire has been dead for centuries.

    The First Amendment is next along with the NAMBLA agenda.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  102. of course he has a dishonest heart…

    he’s a member of the MFM.

    redc1c4 (b340a6)

  103. A thought I had this morning: At what point did Chinese social justice warriors become the Red Brigades? It’s starting to feel a little tippy.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  104. Did PennLive censor pro-gun control letters after Heller?

    Michael Ejercito (d9a893)

  105. Glad to see he’s walking it back.

    Never go the full Putin.

    By it’s quite revealing isn’t it, scratch most of your media and you find small little despots who can’t handle any variance or rainbow of opinion.

    Putin advisor that secretly admires the United States (48fb95)

  106. The real problem is that we have people like John Micek who are aching for dictators.

    Indeed.

    Liberals are of two types. Those who would rule, and those who would be ruled over.

    Matadors (1f55cc)

  107. Sorry, Steve57. I’m block quoting but it ain’t a takin’.

    Matadors (1f55cc)

  108. Ah, and this was the KumBaYa moment that Micek admits caused him to momentarily forget he’s supposed to pretend to be a professional and unbiased journalist.

    FTFY!

    redc1c4 (2b3c9e)

  109. PennLive is the website for the Harrisburg (PA) Patriot-News newspaper. As Dana’s post states, it claims to reach 3.3 million readers each week:

    Today, The Patriot-News is central Pennsylvania’s award-winning top daily local news source, along with PennLive reaching 3.3 million readers weekly

    The claim cites Adobe’s “Omniture SiteCatalyst May 2015″ for that statistic, which is amazing growth since a January 2014 Patriot-News’ brochure advertised very different circulation numbers (citing SiteCatalyst in December 2013):

    LARGEST ONLINE AUDIENCE in CENTRAL PA

    3.03 Monthly Unique Visitors
    25 million Monthly Page Views

    LARGEST PRINT AUDIENCE in CENTRAL PA

    404,878 Weekly Readership

    Apparently the circulation claim of 3.3 million weekly readers is, at best, based on 3.03 million monthly unique viewers to the PennLive website. It’s certainly not on its printed newspaper circulation of the Harrisburg Patriot-News.

    But let’s dig a little deeper, shall we? In 2005, the Patriot-News was the 99th largest newspaper by circulation in America with 102,710 daily subscribers and 151,583 Sunday subscribers. That yields a weekly circulation of 767,843 — far less than 3.3 million per week. In 2013, the Patriot-News went from a daily newspaper to a 3-times a week publication with an online website called PennLive. Just before that change, Poynter reported the Patriot-News’ circulation was up from its 2012 numbers but significantly down from 2005:

    In March, The Patriot-News reported average Sunday circulation of 118,655 (including branded editions) a 4.5 percent increase over the year before. Its daily circulation was down slightly, to 70,446. It reported about 1.6 million unique Web readers.

    There’s no reason to think circulation increased after the newspaper changed from a daily to a 3-times-a-week publication, and I don’t see any basis to believe the Patriot-News/PennLive/PA Media claim of 3.3 million readers a week.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  110. Moderators, when you have time, I have a comment in moderation because of excessive links.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  111. There is a typo in my comment 112. Note that “3.03 Monthly Unique Visitors” should be:
    blockquote>3.03 million Monthly Unique Visitors

    DRJ (1dff03)

  112. One more time.

    There is a typo in my comment 112. Note that “3.03 Monthly Unique Visitors” should be:

    3.03 million Monthly Unique Visitors

    DRJ (1dff03)

  113. 3.03 million links?

    no wonder it’s in moderation… 😉

    redc1c4 (34e91b)

  114. DRJ,

    I’m sorry, I haven’t released comments before. I can go into the admin page and see the “comments” tab on the left side, but am unsure what to do at that point. I suspect click on it and your comment will be sitting there nicely asking for release. However, I’m afraid of tipping over the entire apple cart by selecting the wrong option. I declined the offer to learn how because the posting was enough for me. Hopefully, one of the guys will be around soon.

    Dana (86e864)

  115. With that, in regard to the 3 million number PennLive lists as its weekly readership, I spoke at length with an ex-newspaper executive who smirked about the claim. He said there are rules in place to prevent newspapers from making up readership numbers, however, the “rules” go something like this: you have one single copy of the newspaper at a local Starbucks, and you guesstimate that at least 10-20 people will read that single copy, thus your readership is 20. Or, if you live in a household of 5 people and one single copy is delivered, the readership number 5.

    Dana (86e864)

  116. Done

    JD (3b5483)

  117. Don’t worry about it, Dana. People don’t need to see my comment.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  118. Thanks, JD.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  119. DRJ, see my comment at 118.

    Dana (86e864)

  120. Dana 118,

    The rules may be loosely followed but the Patriot-News/Penn Live link cited a source for its claim. Furthermore, it cited statistics from the same source a year-and-a-half later in a brochure to its advertisers. The brochure numbers don’t match what the website claims, and the difference is dramatic:

    3.3 million a week (claimed at the website) vs 3.03 million a month (in the brochure)

    And they don’t even come close to the print circulation, which the brochure says is 404,878 a week.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  121. In addition, the claim of 3.3 million a week is still up at the Patriot-News/Penn Live website, so apparently they are still claiming this is correct. But in May 2015, last month, they told their advertisers very different numbers.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  122. Re my 123, that should say:

    Dana 118,

    The rules may be loosely followed but the Patriot-News/Penn Live link cited a source for its claim. Furthermore, it cited statistics from the same source a year-and-a-half later before in a brochure to its advertisers. The brochure numbers don’t match what the website claims, and the difference is dramatic:

    3.3 million a week (claimed at the website) vs 3.03 million a month (in the brochure)

    And they don’t even come close to the print circulation, which the brochure says is 404,878 a week.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  123. Perhaps this website exploded with readers in the past year-and-a-half, and it has 4 times as many readers in May 2015 as it did in December 2013.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  124. But I doubt it.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  125. Yikes. Another correction (math is not my strong suit):

    124.In addition, the claim of 3.3 million a week is still up at the Patriot-News/Penn Live website, so apparently they are still claiming this is correct. But in May 2015, last month December 2013, they told their advertisers very different numbers.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  126. DRJ,

    Readership number includes online edition and print copies. Combined also with the quasi-inflated readership numbers of single copies. This also includes any random hits the website gets.

    Dana (86e864)

  127. Yes, I know. My point is the PA Media people are not consistent in how they describe circulation. Unless weeks is the same as months, and maybe it is after the way the Supreme Court redefines words.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  128. Advertisers are pretty aware that newspaper “circulation” numbers are rigged. It is amazing how many newspapers end up on driveways and porches of non-subscribers right before circulation numbers are announced. Also, there’re all the “free” papers being handed out at train stations and grocery stores around that same time to goose the numbers.

    elissa (9dcf17)

  129. Print circ is universally fudged. Here is one of the most notorious, which cost Tribune over 100 million by the time it was done.

    http://www.justice.gov/usao/nye/pr/2006/2006may30.html

    At a small Penn/JerseyLive paper I worked at, a favorite scheme was “Routebuilders”. The circ vp would have all the district managers pick hundreds of homes and put them on as active subscribers. They’d print the papers, but the carriers didn’t deliver them because the “subscribers” never knew they were supposed to get a paper, and there were never any complaints over the non-delivered, non-ordered newspapers. They would count them under the old ABC 4% rule, which allowed inclusion of home delivery copies actually ordered but not paid for.”

    There were so many tricks, all well known to circulators or, as they are now known, VPs of audience development. I’m sure they’ve got the digital versions down by now.

    Matador (1f55cc)

  130. UPDATE BY PATTERICO: From Alito’s dissent:

    Today’s decision usurps the constitutional right of the people to decide whether to keep or alter the traditional understanding of marriage. The decision will also have other important consequences.

    It will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy. In the course of its opinion, the majority compares traditional marriage laws to laws that denied equal treatment for African-Americans and women. E.g., ante, at 11–13. The implications of this analogy will be exploited by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent.

    Perhaps recognizing how its reasoning may be used, the majority attempts, toward the end of its opinion, to reassure those who oppose same-sex marriage that their rights of conscience will be protected. Ante, at 26–27. We will soon see whether this proves to be true. I assume that those who cling to old beliefs will be able to whisper their thoughts in the recesses of their homes, but if they repeat those views in public, they will risk being labeled as bigots and treated as such by governments, employers, and schools.

    And newspapers.

    That didn’t take long.

    Patterico (3cc0c1)

  131. Matador,

    My source chuckled at your comment while agreeing completely. Dallas Morning News was caught in 2004 and hammered for it.

    (Readership and circulation being two seperate numbers.)

    Dana (86e864)

  132. It seems newspapers have already been tacitly doing this while denying it, and rarely being held accountable. Now, however, I fear they’ve been given a green light, all out in the open.

    Dana (86e864)

  133. 135 is in response to 133.

    Dana (86e864)

  134. From Alito’s dissent:

    Interesting how plain-speak candid his rebuttal is. There’s nothing bloated or nose-in-air-academician about it. It goes straight to the point, which is why his words — since they likely will be quite prescient — will haunt this society well into the future.

    However, if the US eventually does acquire the socio-political dysfunction of a Mexico, then arguing about SSM or GLBT well after 2015 will seem increasingly rather quaint. Quaint when set against the backdrop of varying degrees of interminable corruption, academic mediocrity, crime (headless and limbless bodies strewn about?) and cardboard-shack poverty.

    Brave new world up ahead.

    Mark (a11af2)

  135. Despite Mark’s best attempts to get us all to stick our heads in the oven, there is still humor and laughter to be found in the world. Like this. It has everything! Media, flags, ISIS, gays! Absolutely my favorite post of the day.

    http://www.weaselzippers.us/227619-this-is-cnn-mistakenly-identifies-dildo-flag-at-gay-pride-parade-as-isis-flag/

    elissa (9dcf17)

  136. it’s like ‘funny or die’ but done completely dead pan,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  137. I thought I was cynical but that pales in comparison to you people.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  138. Re #140

    “You people?”

    felipe (56556d)

  139. He was just ahead of the curve, that policy wasn’t to be announced until next Friday.

    Steve57 — gloves and yard work, I understand. I’m temporarily taking blood thinners and a little scratch will bleed for hours. I finally got a pair of welder’s gloves that reach half way up my forearms. I’m thinking of turning an old pair of “fat jeans” into chaps for my lower legs, so I can wear shorts.

    htom (4ca1fa)

  140. Ah, Wells-Lamont. Even after all these years, I can still hear Paul Harvey’s voice intoning the praise of those gloves.

    And it appears he was correct.

    navyvet (c33501)

  141. Gooday!

    navyvet (c33501)


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