Patterico's Pontifications

6/9/2015

Marco Rubio And His Fabulously Extravagant “Luxury Speedboat” (UPDATE: Rubio’s Response To NYT)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:03 pm

[guest post by Dana]

Marco Rubio’s financial history is the latest focus of the New York Times’ effort to smear analyze candidate Rubio. As such, the paper of record claims that Rubio, upon receiving an $800,000 advance for his book, splurged on an $80,000 “luxury speedboat”.

Except that isn’t entirely accurate:

Rubio spokesperson Alex Conant sent POLITICO a link to a website showing the make and model of the boat Rubio owns: an EdgeWater 245CC Deep-V Center Console. The manufacturer, Edgewater, notes that the boat is perfect for “safety-minded family boaters and avid anglers.” In a place like Miami, home to billionaires and stars who have multimillion-dollar yachts, an “$80,000 luxury boat” can seem like a contradiction.

Rubio’s campaign said his boat purchase included two new 150-horsepower 4-stroke Yamaha engines, a relatively standard amount of horsepower. According to eBay, each engine could cost as much as $16,000 — making the value of the boat hull itself less than $80,000.

Here is the “luxury speedboat” – commonly known as an offshore fishing boat:

Untitled-1

Further, according to the NYT, the Rubios shockingly “struggled under the weight of student debt” until it was paid off.

What a couple of suckers. Am I right, Lee Siegel?

At the least, they could have started a foundation. I hear those are fairly profitable.

Clearly, these Rubios are not creative thinkers.

And just an fyi: John Kerry’s yacht is 87 times more expensive, and over 3 times the size of Rubio’s “luxury speedboat”.

Dana

UPDATE: Marco Rubio is now fundraising off the New York Times’ hit pieces (traffic tickets and personal finances). Seems to be working out well for the campaign:

[T]he Rubio campaign attributes $100,000 in online fundraising in the past five days to a backlash against NYT articles about Rubio’s driving record and personal finances.

Here is Rubio’s letter sent to supporters:

Untitled-1

83 Responses to “Marco Rubio And His Fabulously Extravagant “Luxury Speedboat” (UPDATE: Rubio’s Response To NYT)”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. he is descended from the island people, this marco rubio

    the sea calls to him

    happyfeet (831175)

  3. As noted Kerry’s boat cost $7 million. Not only that but by docking it in RI he avoided purchase tax of $500,000! And annual excise fees of $70,000! He “voluntarily” pais up after being busted, of course. Rubio’s boat cost around 15 minutes work for Hillary! on the speaking circuit.

    Gazzer (be559b)

  4. $80,000? Really? I would have guessed no more than half that much.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  5. Ah, but that’s not even the best part.

    The best part (h/t Ace) is Eric Lipton of the Times getting all pissy about his paper having to be corrected after blindly transcribing some remarkably shoddy oppo research, and trying to cover for it by declaring Byers to be a Kept Journo flacking for his “patron”.

    Cannot tell if this is ballsy, or just hilariously self-unaware and hypocritical.

    PCachu (5376c0)

  6. POW! Thanks Dana.

    in_awe (7c859a)

  7. It appears the media see Rubio as the greatest threat to Hillary! I think they are on to something. As the last two elections have shown, elections are more and more about identity politics. The Republicans probably cannot win with a ticket of two male WASPs again, even if they are the most qualified. Sadly, it’s no longer about the content of one’s character. Color, ethnicity, and gender must be given equal weight if not more.

    Rubio, with Fiorina as the VP, or vice-versa, would give the Republicans a chance to beat the Democrats at their own game. Cruz, Carson, and Jindal could also be plugged into the equation.

    norcal (e98cec)

  8. The astonishing thing is that La Donna Gris is not trying to resurrect these two things

    During his time as Speaker of the Florida House, Rubio shared a residence with another Florida State Representative, David Rivera; the two men co-owned the property in Tallahassee. The home later fell into foreclosure after deferring months of mortgage payments. This issue surfaced in June 2010, during Rubio’s run for the US Senate but was considered resolved according to Rubio’s spokesman.[34]

    In 2010 Rubio was questioned about charges of nearly $110,000 made to his Republican Party American Express card during his two years as House speaker. The records listed some personal items, including grocery bills, wine, and plane tickets for his wife. Rubio said the charges were legitimate Republican Party expenses and that he personally paid American Express more than $16,000 for expenses unrelated to the party.

    From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marco_Rubio

    kishnevi (adea75)

  9. 2 Yahahammer 150s would be considered significantly underpowered. 3 or 4 350s would be about right.

    ropelight (c08270)

  10. guess “stop digging” doesn’t resonate at NYT.

    seeRpea (b2f97d)

  11. I found this 2015 model, also with twin Yamaha 150s, listed for $99,000. So maybe he was prudent after all. A 2006 was $54K at the same site.

    Gazzer (be559b)

  12. Marco Rubio’s niece once wore white after Labor Day

    SaveFarris (c9975d)

  13. Kerry pays more in docking fees and taxes on his yacht than Rubio’s fishing boat cost. One of the NYT hacks that transcribed this hit piece lives in an apartment that costs almost 14 times what Rubio’s boat cost. Rubio’s boat cost the equivalent of 10 minutes of a Hillary speech, or $20k less than the clinton’s bribe of the NYT for an endorsement.

    My favorite is the slap fight between NYT and politico, since that is the go-to hack for the NYT when they get asked tough questions.

    JD (3b5483)

  14. I bet Hillary’s “Scooby van” whatever the f@ck that is, cost more than Rubio’s luxury oceanliner.

    JD (3b5483)

  15. See my 3 for more Kerry details.

    Gazzer (be559b)

  16. All this oppo research being dutifully regurgitated by “mainstream media” on all these candidates should backfire in the general. The GOP candidate should say “remember when you said this about that Republican candidate and it turned out to be completely false?” and keep repeating all the falsehoods that get debunked. Should be a very good form of shuttuppery and eye opener for the LIVs to see.

    John Hitchcock (06b8ef)

  17. 17.
    You are assuming the LIVs would notice. After all they depend on the MSM telling them the “facts”….

    kishnevi (adea75)

  18. $80,000? Really? I would have guessed no more than half that much.

    Kevin M (25bbee) — 6/9/2015 @ 6:35 pm

    Naw, I can see that. 45 for the boat and trailer, 20 to kit out the electronics and another 15 for misc stuff. It’s too easy to check the right option boxes and spend that on a boat. Or anything related to pleasure transportation, really. Especially when you get a windfall and buy yourself something you’ve always dreamed about.

    Bill H (2a858c)

  19. It would be interesting to compare this luxury-liner to the average Miami luxury speedboat.

    JD (3b5483)

  20. Easy enough.
    http://www.showmanagement.com/fort_lauderdale/event/

    Unless you want to wait for the Miami Beach show, which us March-ish.

    kishnevi (adea75)

  21. Hilary’s first book deal after leaving the White House was worth $8 million.

    And her next one was worth $14 million.

    So it seems an $800,000 advance is fairly modest.

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  22. Is there a tipping point when the NYT is so shamed by liberals like Dylan Byers and non -liberals thatt the public takes notice and demands some journalistic integrity?

    Perhaps the real question is whether the NYT can actually *be* shamed?

    Dana (86e864)

  23. He bought a descent boat for the stated purpose, appears to have gotten a descent deal (depending on the electronics installed), adequate power, sufficient for safely and inexpensively using that boat in that area for a family fun and fishing craft. The motors are about a third of the total being talked about; he could have easily spent $150k-$200K for an identical boat with huge motors that might go twice as fast while burning four or ten times the fuel. The boating community I hang with mostly sneers because it’s not a wooden boat, but to each their own folly.

    htom (4ca1fa)

  24. I think we all know the two best days of a boater’s life.

    Gazzer (be559b)

  25. I’ve been no great fan of Senator Rubio, but the more the NYT writes about him the more I like him. The best political consultant in the land couldn’t have dreamed up a biographical vignette better than the fishing-boat-as-presonal-reward for connecting with rural White voters (heck, I’d like to own one of those myself). And what’s not to like about Sra. Rubio?

    ThOR (b81f2a)

  26. The striking thing about the NYT is how out of touch they are. Somehow, the great newspaper of the land has become a paper tiger. To borrow a metaphor, they’re nothing more than a JV team.

    For most of my life I was a devoted fan of print journalism. More than anything else, the ongoing decline in journalistic standards saddens me.

    ThOR (b81f2a)

  27. He bought a descent boat for the stated purpose, appears to have gotten a descent deal (depending on the electronics installed), adequate power, sufficient for safely and inexpensively using that boat in that area for a family fun and fishing craft. The motors are about a third of the total being talked about; he could have easily spent $150k-$200K for an identical boat with huge motors that might go twice as fast while burning four or ten times the fuel. The boating community I hang with mostly sneers because it’s not a wooden boat, but to each their own folly.

    htom (4ca1fa) — 6/9/2015 @ 9:29 pm

    It’s just like when I built street rods. Speed on the street didn’t mean a damn thing. It was always a competition to see who could piss away the most money in the least amount of time. 200K for a fiberglass bodied ’36 Ford with the Ego Autostroke option was not uncommon.

    Bill H (2a858c)

  28. How many speeches or QUID PRO QUO’S with Yemen, Saudi, Kuwait, Russia, Emirates, CLINTOONISTAN, CUTTER….HAHAHAHAHAHAHA….CUTTER…QATAR, LEWINSKYLAND, and or SWEDEN, did Marco Rubio have to BE BRIBED WITH??? Did RUBIO take his KERRY-ESQUE-YACHT to EPSTEIN’S “FANTASY ISLAND”??
    THIS SH!T IS ABSURD. The LEFT is 100 percent TURGID FULL COMMIE.
    Btw. Scott Walker owns a VW of some sort, and a canoe.

    Gus (7cc192)

  29. Rodham COLLLLLECTS MILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLIONS from foreign governments, as Benghazi burns. Rodham and her (sort of) husband, have a SERVER at their home. Billy’s MILLLLLLLLIONS in GRAFT and those deals ARE ON THAT SERVER. The MFM asks not a fugging single question vis a vis BILLY the RAPISTS DATA on that server. NOT A FUGGING WORD. The CLINTOOON SERVER, was set up for the purposes of avoiding scrutiny. Rodham BENEFITTED FINANCIALLY from her BELOVED HUSBANDS, INFLUENCE PEDDLING. His INFLUENCE PEDDLING was SERVED by HER. BY RODHAM. But THEIR SERVER is sleeping with the fishes and with JIMMY HOFFA now. AND THE MEDIA HASN’T EVEN connected the dots….THAT I JUST DID.

    Gus (7cc192)

  30. WTF?? Serioualy WTF? The CRIMINAL CLINTOONS, recieve HUNDREDS OF MILLLLLIONS OF DOLLARS for their “CHARITY”. While collecting these HUNDREDS of MILLLLLIONS of dollars, RODHAM is SEC STATE and an utttttter fuk up. HER “CHARITY” is taking in MILLLLLLLLLLLIONS from NATIONS that are doing BIZ and/or NEGOTIATING for favors or positions vis a vis THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA.
    IN OTHER WORDS. The PATHETIC ALCOHOLIC, DISHONEST UNETHICAL SOCIOPATHIC RODHAM has been PERSONALLLLLLLY benefitting from HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN CASH, from NATIONS that she had a CONFLICT OF INTEREST WITH. WE ARE SCREWED. When our COUNTRY and even GOP’ERS do not GET IT.

    Gus (7cc192)

  31. Let them have Rubio, fricking gang of eight member who knows about Benghazi.

    mg (31009b)

  32. Let me know when the times tells the truth.

    mg (31009b)

  33. Cruz and Rubio on their knees with oboenher trade deal.
    Pathetic. I hate these people. No Arugula for you.

    mg (31009b)

  34. I’m a thinking my new choice for president is Trump. Lots of money and gives people the grief they deserve. This is about REVENGE. republicans are the charlie browns of America.

    mg (31009b)

  35. yes yes marco scarface sleazio and his modestly-priced narco-boat are not the future

    happyfeet (831175)

  36. he might would make a decent veep though

    happyfeet (831175)

  37. Gus, your points would be a lot easier to understand if you would just unglue the capslock key.

    Bill H (2a858c)

  38. happyfeet, as usual your logic amuses me. So Marco would make a bad President unless just one person in the whole world died? The guy ahead of him.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  39. every doggy has his day Mr. Hoagie

    happyfeet (831175)

  40. You’re Machiavellian, my friend.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  41. Deck boats are primo here in lake country where surf is nonexistant and and the hoi polloi are boaters.

    Power to pull skiers, boarders and tubers yet having shaded flat space for entertaining.

    Rubes is an obvious amateur.

    DNF (208255)

  42. Yeah, every Saturday morning, now, one drives by here on a trailer going down to the Lake. Just like Rubio’s, but I can only see one engine from where I am.

    nk (dbc370)

  43. Here is the “luxury speedboat” – commonly known as an offshore fishing boat:

    I gotta throw in my two cents here Dana. Being a boat guy for years this little boat of Rubio’s is really not an “off shore fishing boat”. It’s a close to shore fishing boat. Especially with the underpowered motors. I sold my last boat in 2008 when I sold my place in Boca. It was a 51′ Bertram 510 Convertible. She had twin 1360’s and I could cruise to Bermuda, the VI or just about anywhere in the Caribbean (if one has the money for fuel!). THAT is an off shore fisherman! Rubio’s boat is cool for fishing the waterways or close to shore in the sea but not more. I used to park my boat next to boats like his to give me contrast. (snark). Oh, and $89,000? Cute.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  44. And Cigarettes are the narco boats, happyfeet. Do they still make them?

    nk (dbc370)

  45. $80,000? Really? I would have guessed no more than half that much.
    Kevin M (25bbee) — 6/9/2015 @ 6:35 pm

    As the article notes, the outboard engines alone are pricey.

    Rubio’s campaign said his boat purchase included two new 150-horsepower 4-stroke Yamaha engines, a relatively standard amount of horsepower. According to eBay, each engine could cost as much as $16,000 — making the value of the boat hull itself less than $80,000.

    I think you’re getting ripped off if you pay $16k for the engine alone but it isn’t that far off if you include sales tax.

    http://www.outboard-engine.com/enginespecs.php?recordID=209

    YAMAHA
    150 HP 4-STROKE
    F150 – F115

    PRICING
    US 14,420 – 15,050 dollars

    They have different versions; Rubio would have bought the models with the counter-rotating props because he’s using a twin engine configuration. And when his campaign calls it “a relatively standard amount of power” they should have been clearer. That’s what the manufacturer offers as the base engine package.

    http://www.ewboats.com/boat-models/center-consoles/245cc

    ENGINE PACKAGE

    Yamaha Twin F150 Four Stroke w/ SS Props, Fuel/Water Separator (2) Group 29 Battery & Tray (2), Digital Tachs (2) (w/ Engine Trim, Hours, Trip & Warning Lights), Digital Speedo (w/ Fuel Level, Trip, Time, Volts & Low Fuel/Volt Alarms)

    Yamaha Twin F200 Four Stroke w/ Command Link Plus Electronic Controls, Digital Command Link Plus Multi-function Engine Display, Stainless Steel Props, Fuel/Water Separators (2), Group 29 Battery and Box (2)

    Yamaha F250 or F300 Four Stroke w/ Command Link Plus Electronic Controls, Digital Command Link Plus Multi-function Engine Display, Stainless Steel Props, Fuel/Water Separators (1), Group 29 Battery and Box (2)

    Keep in mind the minimum MSRP for one of these engines is $14,420 (I’m sure they charge more for the counter-rotating prop models). That’s what you’d pay if you were replacing an engine on a boat already outfitted with all the equipment to run it. All of the equipment included in these engine packages are also optional equipment. Imagine buying a car in which only part of the wiring for an engine is standard equipment. You have to pay extra for everything else that goes under the hood. In fact, everything that goes under the car to make it go, including the drive train, tires, and wheels. That’s how these boats are sold.

    A good rule of thumb when you look at big outboard engines is that you pay $1k/horsepower. So Rubio’s 300hp twin 150 combo set him back $30k. The optional twin 250hp engine package would have cost around $50k. Then toss in the boat.

    This is why I do all my “yachting” in a canoe.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  46. 25. I think we all know the two best days of a boater’s life.
    Gazzer (be559b) — 6/9/2015 @ 9:49 pm

    Yes, the day you buy it and the day the NYT confuses it with John Kerry’s multi-million dollar luxo-yacht.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  47. That would be my $300 off-of-Craigslist canoe.

    Unfortunately it’s not trailerable. I have to haul my “luxury yacht” on the roof-rack of my Tacoma.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  48. The NYT article is to get all the leftys who can’t afford an $80K boat all worked up and indignant. Envy is what motivates the left….

    dee (f93efc)

  49. S’funny Steve57!

    Gazzer (be559b)

  50. It seems a bit much to me, too, narciso. Maybe that included the trailer (not an insignificant expense) so Rubio can endanger more people’s lives on the road by handicapping his ability to slow down the entire rig when speeding around in the F150 SUV/Luxury speedboat combo.

    But boats are expensive. Check out the prices for a 12.5, 17.5, or 21.5′ Norseboat. They’re just good, high quality, rugged, but very basic boats that you can either row or sail (go to purchasing to access the PDF file).

    http://norseboat.com/NorseBoats.html

    The basic rowing versions for the 12.5 and 17.5 foot open rowing boats are $5,995 and $7,495 respectively, and if you add the sliding rowing seat (recommended it you’re going to do any serious rowing, like the Everglade’s Challenge) that tacks on another $695.

    These boats, standard production version, with the sail kit are $14,995 for the 12.5′ boat, $19,995 for the 17.5′ boat, and for the 21.5′ either $42,495 for the open version or $49,995 for the version with an enclosed cuddy cabin. With options the prices skyrocket from there.

    And that’s why if I ever have a sailboat it’ll be one I build myself from commercially available plans and hardware kit.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  51. Don’t focus on the boat. Look at the big picture. This made my jaw drop:

    “Mr. Rubio earned $2.38 million from 1998 to 2008 but ended up with an estimated net worth of $53,000 (slightly more than Mr. Rubio disclosed himself). His savings rate during that period was about 2 percent.”

    That’s an amazing amount of not living in your means. The guy needs to read “Millionarie Next Door.” It’s highly flawed, but it could help.

    stir (0f0dc1)

  52. Concerned reminds me of Connor f, who was concerned because the huntress had a plane, even though it was the best way to traverse alaska ‘ s vast expanse.

    narciso (b4162e)

  53. “Stir” -‘ your concern is noted. Thank you.

    JD (3b5483)

  54. Stir also does not understand the concept of living within one’s means. If Rubio earned 2.38 million over ten years, then as long as he spent no more than 2.38 million during those ten years he was by definition living within his means.

    Since he saved some money, he apparently was doing that.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  55. 53. …That’s an amazing amount of not living in your means. The guy needs to read “Millionarie Next Door.” It’s highly flawed, but it could help.

    stir (0f0dc1) — 6/10/2015 @ 4:16 pm

    Perhaps he should form some fraudulent charity so he could have a slush fund to help defray his expenses.

    Not that I take anything at face value that’s printed in the Old Grey Lady Red Army Camp Follower, such as those earnings/net worth figures.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  56. Yep, Rubio paid off his student loans, which puts him a leg up on the vast majority of young leftwingers. Unlike Hillary, he has a soul. And unlike Obama, it does not appear he’s had smoke blown up his ass his whole life. And again unlike Obama, he came from a humble background and he made something of himself.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  57. Here’s a headline that’s just as accurate as “Marco Rubio and His Wife Racked Up 17 Traffic Violations.”

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2922773/Newly-released-flight-logs-reveal-time-trips-Bill-Clinton-Harvard-law-professor-Alan-Dershowitz-took-pedophile-Jeffrey-Epstein-s-Lolita-Express-private-jet-anonymous-women.html

    “Hillary Clinton and Her Husband Racked Up Eleven Flights On Convicted Sex Offender Jerry Epstein’s Lolita Express, Many Of Them To The Sex Offender’s Private Caribbean Pedophilia Rape Island.”

    Of course, there’s no evidence Hillary! was on any of those flights, just Billy Jeff, but since now the standard is to look at a couple’s combined totals to smear the candidate, that would be a fair headline.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  58. Steve 57@57 (nice touch)
    Works out to a little under $240,000 a year. Believeable for a high power politician/lawyer especially if that is before taxes, and if it includes his wife’s income (whatever that may be, or if she even has one, since I know nothing about her).

    Of course since it is La Mujere Gris, skepticism is appropriate.

    kishnevi (adea75)

  59. If you intend to buy a boat, carefully consider the option of buying a used boat. If it’s a fishing boat like Rubio’s, both motors will have built-in meters that track hours of use, and if the boat is built in the more-or-less traditional fiberglass method, then the failure modes (gel coat blisters, rot in sandwich portion of deck and hull, etc.) are understood and easily identified and fixable at reasonably predictable costs. A power boat that lists at $55K can be purchased for $15K-$20K, and another $5K will correct most problems, and another $5K will upgrade the instruments to a fairly nice standard. The only real consideration is that the engine(s) should have a low number of hours, which isn’t unusual as many boat buyers quickly learn that the reality of using a boat is somewhat different than the dream of having a boat. I found an 8-year old 22′ Trophy with 90 hours on its 135 HP 2-cycle, and its been a rock solid crabbing and fishing platform for 3 years. But don’t overlook the MPG issue. There’s a 32′ twin, inboard, gas-powered cabin cruiser on my dock that is selling for $28K, but I’d be surprised if it got 1 MPG at 25 mph (22 knots.) So with my 22’er, which cruises at 35 mph in calm water, I can buzz up to Seattle to see the fools “picketing” the Shell oil drilling platform and return to the marina in about an hour and a half, and it will only cost me $60. The 32’er will take two hours, and it will consume about $150 of gasoline.

    And if you love sailboats, as I do, then the used market is amazing. You can get a decent used sailboat at around $1K per foot. It will be heavy and slow, in comparison to modern racing yachts, but most of the gear and the diesel engine (of course) should be functional. And you can upgrade the sails and the gear, the prop in particular, as your budget permits. But then there’s the dock fee at the marina, and the haul-outs every year or two. And the puzzle that surrounds the electronics … 30 years of fixes and upgrades will create a puzzle that you will find very challenging. So this isn’t for dreamers. Reality will rear its ugly head rather quickly, and if that isn’t your cup of tea, don’t bother to get involved. But there is the satisfaction of making 7 or 8 knots under sail (or power) in fairly ugly seas that turn the power boats into wallowing, smashing, pounding, stamping mills that test their owner’s commitment to a nautical adventure.

    And as for the NYT claim that Rubio had a luxury speed boat … not even close. Luxury speed boats are “cigarettes” that go 60 or 70 knots (maybe more) with fully cavitating props. These things burn gasoline by the ton, not the gallon, but they are amazing. We were headed back from Bremerton at around 33 mph, and we saw a small dot five or ten miles off in the haze. In about a minute the dot became a boat and in 3 minutes the cigarette blasted by us at over 60 mph. With closing speeds of over 90 mph, narrow channels, and more than a few boats wandering around with little evidence of any recognition of the situation, it was easy to see how small mistakes could lead to big consequences.

    bobathome (5b5810)

  60. I once worked for a guy who sorta invented the fast boat moving cocaine scheme out in Miami.
    He did his time, had his cash seized and somehow came out of it living like a multi-millionaire.
    Because of how wisely he’d invested in coin and cash enterprises outside the reach of the feds.
    I read that the feds claimed they found $10M squirreled away in the Caymans and his attorney said “take it” so sorry. There was money stashed all over the world and my client lost track of it all”

    His story illustrates the need for excellent representation throughout the process. Drug dealers need attorneys who specialize in recovering seized cash and properties BEFORE the property is seized.
    These days I guess you also need some kid to be in charge of social media so the dumbasses who “support” you don’t upset the judicial branch so much as to see you buried

    steveg (fed1c9)

  61. kishnevi, also consider that amount could conceivably include the total value of their combined compensation packages, such as health insurance.

    I also don’t know about their debts; student loans, home loans, and any of their own money they may have put up for Rubio’s campaigns.

    But I’d be willing to put all that aside and accept the numbers at face value if, for clarity’s sake, instead of talking dollar amounts we put everything in the context of the Clinton crime family’s speaking fees.

    Instead of saying they earned $2.38M over the ten year period from 1998 to 2008, say they earned what NBC would have paid Chelsea Clinton got in payola from NBC if only she did one more six minute fluff piece. That amount averages out to slightly less per year what Hillary! charges at her “discount rate” for one 30 minute speech at a university. Along the way they purchased a home that would cost what Bill Clinton charges for a single speech. And a boat that cost’s less than what Chelsea charges for a single speech.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  62. Oh
    Not advocating drug sales, import or export.
    Just noting that if you want to test the envelope on what is and is not legal it’d be smart to get the best on board before the sh*t hits the fan.. and it will

    steveg (fed1c9)

  63. I’ve added an update to the post: Marco Rubio is now fundraising off the New York Times’ hit pieces (traffic tickets and personal finances). Seems to be working out well for the campaign:

    [T]he Rubio campaign attributes $100,000 in online fundraising in the past five days to a backlash against NYT articles about Rubio’s driving record and personal finances.

    Also posted is a copy of Rubio’s letter sent to supporters.

    Dana (86e864)

  64. 62, …And if you love sailboats, as I do, then the used market is amazing. You can get a decent used sailboat at around $1K per foot. It will be heavy and slow, in comparison to modern racing yachts, but most of the gear and the diesel engine (of course) should be functional. And you can upgrade the sails and the gear, the prop in particular, as your budget permits. But then there’s the dock fee at the marina, and the haul-outs every year or two. And the puzzle that surrounds the electronics … 30 years of fixes and upgrades will create a puzzle that you will find very challenging…

    bobathome (5b5810) — 6/10/2015 @ 8:54 pm

    So true. The dirty little secret is that a lot of guys end up selling sailboats because sailing them involves some work. And a lot of times their wives find out they weren’t exactly told about that, and they dislike it. Not slamming the ladies; the guy envisions the family being his crew, and then the crew mutinies when it becomes clear the “captain” wasn’t exactly forthcoming.

    So, cheap used sailboats. Not like maintaining them is cheap.

    The fact is the price of admission isn’t the only cost or even the major cost. It’s also true for, say, Ferraris and horses.

    I haven’t checked Ferrari prices lately, but a couple of years back you could get a used 308 for about $22k. Ferrari aficionados laugh at the idea it’s a “real” Ferrari as by Ferrari standards it was a mass-produced fake. But, it’s a Ferrari in one meaningful way. Maintenance costs are staggering, and woe to you if you need to buy repair parts. The same is true for “real” supercars. But “real” supercars tend to have enough collector value that the people who buy them can afford to keep them up. Not always. But the $22k Ferrari 308 was only ever an invitation to take somebody’s problem off their hands, please. It’s a money pit.

    Around here in N. Texas ranchers will sometimes advertise they’re willing to take horses for free. And people give them horses for free because they A) bought cheap then B) found they couldn’t afford to stable, feed, shoe, and pay veterinary fees for.

    Like a Ferrari 308, they didn’t realize that whoever sold them that horse cheap was just trying to get rid of a financial problem.

    It’s one thing if your horse makes you money. Like, if you’re a working cowboy. There still are some. There are other elements of the horse business which make sense. But most people pretend they’re in the horse business; if you look at their books they’re in the money losing business. And for most people who ride for recreation it makes zero sense to own a horse.

    If you look under the hood of my ’76 International Scout you’ll see a textbook case of the 30 year electronics fixes and upgrades puzzle. Fortunately I made most of those fixes and upgrades, kept the documentation, and between the factory shop manual and my records the guy who’s buying it is confident he knows what he’s looking at. Plus he’s not novice under the hood, so that helps.

    You can find bargains on the used market. I’d still rather build my own (I’m an old hot rodder at heart). I’m enamored of this design.

    http://www.stevproj.com/IntroWkndrPg1.html

    The Weekender is eminently trailerable, as the site goes on to explain.

    …The very first Weekenders had a centerboard that slipped down out of the full-length keel. But then we began to get letters from builders who were leaving the centerboard off-and wondering why we’d used it in the first place. They were still getting good performance to windward, and the boat still tacked on a dime.

    We went back and retested without any board in place. They were right. The shallow full-length keel and the hard chine of the hull bottom bit into the water and kept the boat sailing well into the wind. We could find only one condition it seemed to have trouble handling: sailing to windward in very light airs. Then someone remembered to induce the same angle of heel the boat would have in a breeze by sitting on the downwind side of the cockpit, and the boat took off upwind on the spot. So, with one little sailing trick, we can forget about centerboards that take up cabin room, that get caught in the kelp, and that leak and cause drag. We can let the kick-up rudder kick up, and then sail right up on a beach without touching another line.

    The Weekender design is built with a single flat plank as the bottom, with a shallow full length keel as her backbone. But the thing is, when you’re sailing you spend so much time heeled over that flat bottom forms a V that bites into the water. So you don’t need a deep keel, a centerboard, or one of these inconvenient and impractical trailer contraptions…

    http://sailtrailers.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/soverel33.8960202_std.jpg

    …where there’s no way you can launch that boat by backing your rig down the launch ramp or pass under a low bridge.

    Plus I’d know the wiring.

    The only drawback is the girls who want to star in rap videos aren’t going to be impressed with my boat. It’s just for sailing and maybe inshore/coastal cruising.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  65. Also, the New York Times Public Editor Margaret Sullivan looks in the question of oppo research being used as a source in the Rubio stories.

    The question she posed to Matthew Purdy, one of The Times’s deputy executive editors:

    [W]hat is the ethical obligation of The Times to level with the reader and report the genesis of such negative items? Or does The Times consider that once something of that nature is confirmed, there’s no need to be transparent about how it got on the trail in the first place?


    Purdy schools readers:

    “It’s perfectly ethical to take information from anywhere and to check it out,” he said. “That’s the basis of our job. That doesn’t mean that we’re going to write it.”

    He added: “Most information comes from people with an agenda, and that includes environmental groups, gun-rights groups, community advocates, politicians, and all kinds of others.” He acknowledged that there is a “burgeoning oppo research industry that is trying to get the press to write certain things.” Given that, he said, skepticism is even more important.

    Regarding the need for transparency regarding the source:

    “[I]t depends on what the information is.

    What’s important is that we’re giving you verified information. Our job is to take the agenda out of it.

    Where the source is relevant, we should say so,” he said

    Dana (86e864)

  66. Our job is to take the agenda out of it.

    Sez the political operatives advancing an agenda.

    H8ers gonna h8. Lying liars gonna lie.

    Steve57 (48418e)

  67. I am from the gang of hate, which is more honest than the gang of eight, who I hate.

    mg (31009b)

  68. Very classy letter. I’m still not supporting him, mostly because Walker seems so much more suited to the job, but he hit exactly the right tone.

    Milhouse (a0cc5c)

  69. “If Rubio earned 2.38 million over ten years, then as long as he spent no more than 2.38 million during those ten years he was by definition living within his means.”

    You see the flaw in this right? Someone that reaches 65 with 1 dollar in net worth in their retirement accounts is living within their means? This is like when a misbehaving kid thinks they are clever when they argue against common sense.

    “Perhaps he should form some fraudulent charity so he could have a slush fund to help defray his expenses.”

    That’s another point you’ll get from “Millionaire Next Door.” You’re not going to get out of your lack wealth building by thinking that you need more money to cover more expenses.

    stir (5e65ed)

  70. He paid off debt. How is that living beyond his means? Almost no matter what happens, his future earning potential is much greater than his past; now is not the time he has to be putting money aside for retirement, at the cost of continuing to carry debt (and paying interest). And really, what extravagances do you think he’s been spending on? Where can he reasonably be expected to cut spending?

    Milhouse (a0cc5c)

  71. I was talking about Net worth, so debt is taken into account whether it is paid off or not.

    ” And really, what extravagances do you think he’s been spending on? Where can he reasonably be expected to cut spending?”

    There’s lots of books he can turn to besides Millionaire Next Door. But it is possible to build wealth in this country with less than 2.8 million income in a decade. Somebody with this kind of income has no business cashing out an IRA. That’s just madness.

    stir (5e65ed)

  72. His net worth did go up. It went from negative to positive. Where did you get the idea that it didn’t? And you seriously underestimate what it takes to raise a family nowadays. Especially without abusing the children by sending them to public schools.

    Milhouse (a0cc5c)

  73. I was talking about where his net worth ended up at the end of having 2+ million in income. Maybe I’m underestimating what it takes to build wealth for retirement and college expenses for a family in America, but then again maybe we can go back to talking about the boat.

    stir (0941f5)

  74. His net worth ended up in the black. That’s a huge deal. What more did you expect?

    Milhouse (a0cc5c)

  75. Iamadimwit’s mendoucheity is astounding.

    JD (3b5483)

  76. Remember, this is the combined student debt of two people, plus the necessary expenses of raising a family in a modest middle class lifestyle, and maintaining a residence in the state capital so he had somewhere to sleep while the legislature was in session.

    Milhouse (a0cc5c)

  77. FWIW, for questioning observers,
    at best, stir may have a point about liquid funds, but not at all about net worth,
    student loans gone, big increase in net worth
    owning a house, I presume, equity is net worth.
    nurturing children, big increase in intangibles

    spending 10% of additional income above his salary that he is living on for a treat for himself and his family (that is an asset, btw),
    you are really going to argue about that???

    If that is the best the NYT with help from partisan groups can find to attack Rubio with,
    well heck,
    put him up for sainthood while you’re at it

    it is way too bad that too many are in some kind of delusional haze to look at this and laugh at the NYT

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  78. MD, 78.

    nk (dbc370)

  79. 😉

    nk (dbc370)


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