Patterico's Pontifications

5/22/2015

President Obama Re-Makes Police Forces

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:05 am



[guest post by Dana]

In a continuing effort to make law enforcement officers more “user-friendly” to certain communities and help ease tensions, President Obama has announced several impending changes as part of an executive order:

The Obama administration on Monday moved to prohibit federal agencies from providing local cops with certain kinds of military equipment such as grenade launchers, high-caliber weapons and bayonets, in the wake of controversy over a “militarized” police response to unrest last summer in Ferguson, Missouri.

“We’ve seen how militarized gear can sometimes give people a feeling like there’s an occupying force as opposed to a force that’s part of the community that’s protecting them and serving them,” Obama said in Camden Monday. “It can alienate and intimidate local residents and send the wrong message.”

The list of prohibited equipment includes: tank-like armored vehicles that move on tracks, certain types of camouflage uniforms, bayonets, firearms and ammunition of .50 caliber or higher, grenade launchers, and weaponized aircraft.

However, there will be some leeway as local police will still be able to buy the equipment from private sellers.

Along with the ban on various equipment, the president also wants to “soften” the look of police officers on the street.

According to Fox News reporter Brian Kilmeade:

…Obama also thinks that police officers should have “softer looking” uniforms.

Kilmeade explained that Obama thinks that police officers are “making things worse” when they show up to inner city communities wearing military-style equipment and riot gear.

“They’re concerned about the helmet. They’re concerned about the shield. It’s sending the wrong message,” Kilmeade stated. “I used to think from the civilian point of view that that would be a reason not to riot, because the police were ready and ready to act.”

Better that citizens not be offended by the sight of police officers wearing gear specifically designed to protect them and potentially save their lives – from the very people who might be offended by it. Message received.

–Dana

67 Responses to “President Obama Re-Makes Police Forces”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. .50 cal mounted machine guns, tanks, grenade launchers and attack helicopters are not gear designed to protect people. They’re designed to conquer and destroy enemies.

    JWB (52a414)

  3. The militarization of the police is a huge problem, and it has not just been about keeping officers “safe”, and Dana you ought to know better.

    Obama bears his share of the responsibility for contributing to this problem, and I give him 0.025 cheers for working to dial it back a bit, but he gets -3 cheers for trying to do it by decree from his royal mouth.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  4. “I used to think from the civilian point of view that that would be a reason not to riot, because the police were ready and ready to act.”

    Remove the “reason not to riot” and there will be more riots, not less.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  5. Also, if we have less aggressive community policing and leave more criminals on the streets and release more criminals early from prison were are certain to have less crime and violence.

    Liberal logic.

    What a freaking maroon.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  6. Yes, the militarization of the police is a huge problem. De-escalation may or may not result in a de-escalation in tension. I think 40 years wandering in a desert is what is called for, if you know what I mean.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  7. I’m all broken up about the feelings of people who are concerned about the “militarization” of police. Perhaps we should be training our officers to hand out bouquets of flowers as a way of defusing conflict situations.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  8. I am not for “less aggressive community policing” nor releasing more criminals early as mentioned by daleyrocks. However, I don’t believe non violent offenders should necessarily be jailed. For example, people behind on child support or ticket scofflaws or weed smokers. BUT, as JWB noted: “.50 cal mounted machine guns, tanks, grenade launchers and attack helicopters are not gear designed to protect people. They’re designed to conquer and destroy enemies.”. Civilians are not “enemies”, they’re your neighbors. If we have reached the point where the police need that kind of weaponry then we are in a civil war, and the police are the enemy.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  9. I say we remove all these militarized police from minority neighborhoods, and move them to white neighborhoods, Then we could see if all these people with their heads up the police’s ass would enjoy having armored cars and police dressed like the SS, patrolling their neighborhoods. Because you see, I believe that a lot of these people in favor of that type of policing, assume it’s only going to take place in “those” neighborhoods.

    Mike Giles (ea55d1)

  10. Ad absurdum, daleyrocks? Nobody is saying the cops should hand out flowers. I’m saying the cops don’t need the equipment I used in Nam to control Bobby and Tony at the CVS. That stuff is not to keep the peace, it’s to impose power.

    Hoagie (f4eb27)

  11. Does anybody have any actual stats on how many police departments deploy tracked vehicles with mounted .50 caliber machine guns, let alone whether one has ever been fired in public?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  12. We’ve moved from the nationwide property destruction and violence of the Occupy Movement to ginned up violence and destruction of media hyped police shootings. Paid agitators and protestors are routinely employed.

    Somebody has to take the side of the business and property owners and peaceful members of communities as well as the safety of the police rather than appeasing the delicate snowflake thugs.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  13. “I say we remove all these militarized police from minority neighborhoods, and move them to white neighborhoods, Then we could see if all these people with their heads up the police’s ass would enjoy having armored cars and police dressed like the SS, patrolling their neighborhoods.”

    Mike – We can rely on the strict gun control laws which work so well in large cities to control violence then, right?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  14. “That stuff is not to keep the peace, it’s to impose power.”

    Hoagie – I disagree. Imposing power allows the police to keep the peace. I think people are hyperventilating over unicorns.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  15. Do you have objections to any of the specific equipment in question being prohibited, daley?

    JWB (52a414)

  16. Is there any examples of misuse of .50 cal guns and tracked vehicles by the police? I don’t see any particular need for these for the police, but in recent riots, some of it seems better safe than sorry. Mike Giles – I couldn’t care less if they wanted to send patrols with .50 cals on tracked vehicles with officers dressed in riot gear through my neighborhood.

    JD (3b5483)

  17. JWB – I think it should be up to the individual departments and Washington should stay the heck out of local decisions. Police policy was one of Obama’s pet projects when he was an Illinois State Senator and he managed to pass extremely unpopular legislation then. He’s just continuing a theme as he has been with a number of his policies during his administration.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  18. JWB – I think the “militarization” of the police meme is overhyped nonsense pushed by those with an agenda if that helps.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  19. How exactly does the federal government have a role in how a local police force chooses to equip themselves?

    JD (3b5483)

  20. @11. Good point.
    To hear our Idiot in Chief speak one would think that across the country patrol shifts are put on the street in cammies, riding tracked armored vehicles sporting Ma-Deuce. I would ask that some verifiable evidence be produced to support that contention. We do see that when the riots occur and the modern version version of the Mongol hoards descend on the local strip mall, but not in day-to-day activities.

    In many cities the residents of the “well to do” neighborhoods who pay the lion’s share of the taxes would be happy to have a major police presence… at least if you believe their pleas to the city government.

    The local police should be locally controlled. Period. And the old saw for them, just like with the US Military holds true: The police, your best friends or worst enemy; your choice.

    Gramps, the original (9e1415)

  21. 19. Excellent point JD. So, do the feds offer this over-the-top gear to local enforcement in hopes that they go all “Barney Fife?” To create the militirization that enabled th feds to make a power grab in order to reign in these overly equiped police forces, i guess, is the master plan.

    felipe (b5e0f4)

  22. if i were running a police department, i’d avoid tracked vehicles like the plague… and MRAPs too.

    they are huge resource hogs, prone to breakdowns (usually at the most inconvenient time), and vulnerable as hell to anyone with a bit of knowledge. milspec weapons are NOT required to disable or destroy them.

    what’s almost amusing is that Obola has been sending this sort of “aid” out all over the nation for the last 6 years, hand over fist, and now he’s butthurt over it. guess he finally read about it in the news.

    what we need to do is stop the militantization of the Free 5hit Army.

    redc1c4 (269d8e)

  23. Obama’s big on “reforming” the police, but what I want to know is where does he stand on reforming thug behavior and entire communities? What has he done to improve conditions in cities that have been run – and run-down – by inept Democrat governance, in some cases for over a half century, in all cases, several decades. What has he done to improve the circumstances and the behaviors that pave the way to criminal lifestyles and perpetuate more of the same?

    Until he and like-minded politicians, activists and community “leaders” demonstrate the desire to promote behaviors that facilitate good citizenship and honest, productive lifestyles, they are enablers of this LCD culture and destroyers of civil society.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. Well, at least now we know that the old A-10, Warthogs, would be going to local police forces

    Neo (d1c681)

  25. the Hawgs need to stay in the Air Force…

    no matter what the idiots on charge of it say.

    redc1c4 (269d8e)

  26. “Obama’s big on “reforming” the police, but what I want to know is where does he stand on reforming thug behavior and entire communities?”

    Colonel – We cowards are supposed to be listening to a national lecture on that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  27. He is a malevolent, empty suit, daley. What remains of good-hearted, critical thinking, informed people… people who understand where this far-leftwing attempt at fundamentally transforming America will leave us had better start pushing back in a big way or these unconstitutional executive actions will continue to tear this nation apart.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  28. the militarization of the police is a huge problem.

    I don’t know of many examples in local police activities. I hear more about the lunatic militarized forces of the EPA and various federal agencies, especially DEA.

    For Example.

    “Agents with body armour showing up at a gold mine to enforce the Clean Water Act is an invitation to disaster. A confrontation between unannounced armed agents and armed miners could end in a hail of gunfire,” writes blogger Chris Bennet.

    The agency has not denied its law enforcement officers wore body armours and carried firearms, as it says the agents are always required to do to perform their duties. However, EPA told The Alaska Dispatch it was never a “raid.”

    “Environmental law enforcement, like other forms of law enforcement, always involves the potential for physical, even armed, confrontation,” said the EPA in a statement e-mailed to Fox News.

    Yup. Those darned miners defending their own property. Can’t have that.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  29. The less capable of enforcing the law that the police become, the more Democrats can get away with. That’s a quick summary of their plan.

    David Longfellow (8cba7a)

  30. He’s seeking to flip control of the streets to the people he has sought to lead his entire adult life as a community organizer. The compassionate majority will learn what it’s like to be ignored and oppressed or pay up to be left alone. Transformation, reparations, redistribution all rolled into one.

    crazy (cde091)

  31. Strikes me as the usual Obama straw man technique.

    Were tracked vehicles, .50 caliber machine guns, bayonets, or weaponized aircraft ever given out to police departments. If they were, have they ever been used?

    Seems like an opportunity for the administration to make a flashy announcement that they are “doing something” by not distributing these weapons when, in fact, they may never have given any of these weapons out in the first place.

    Mustang (2dd274)

  32. You want militarization of local law enforcement, here ya go:
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080118/

    I think body armor and helmets are good things, as long as visors are clear. I would think every bit of defensive gear an officer would have might give people an extra moment to comply before an officer has to make a life or death decision.

    Part of the issue in the “bombing” of the West Philly neighborhood back in 1985 was the claim that the “MOVE” compound had “bunker” like structures to hide behind. Obviously SWAT teams already have military-similar gear, and there needs to be some ability to respond to terrorist type assaults when necessary.

    I do think bayonets send the wrong message.

    Speaking of “the old days” and especially you folks who have military background, I’ve heard good talk about the “Ride the Thunder” movie that has been released.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  33. Were tracked vehicles, .50 caliber machine guns, bayonets, or weaponized aircraft ever given out to police departments. If they were, have they ever been used?

    That information isn’t hard to find. Plenty of police departments have and use tracked vehicles. Like a small town in Iowa

    Here’s a salient quote from that article:

    Now those tanks will be on American streets, some never before used in combat. Grenade launchers are part of the program, too.

    “I think some of (the residents) are in fear that we’re gonna get these vehicles and we’re gonna go house to house and take everybody’s guns,” says Greg Goodman, the police chief of Washington, Iowa. “We don’t believe in that at all.”

    That’s not what they’re worried about.

    They’re worried about an Albuquerque Police Department that shot more people than the NYPD in the last four years, then brought these kinds of vehicles when students went to protest against them.

    They’re worried about the 30-year-old who was shot and killed by the LA County Sheriff’s Department this week while he was trying to save a stabbing victim. They’re worried about the stabbing victim they shot, too, in the same incident, while the actual attacker remained safe in the house. They’re worried about the lack of consequences, since all three officers on the scene will return to duty next week.

    And they’re worried about how much worse it would have been if the police had tanks and grenade launchers.

    Yes, I am worried about militarized police. I understand that they have a job to do. But there are lines that shouldn’t be crossed. And when the cops look more like soldiers than community servants, this small-government advocate gets worried.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  34. with lawmakers like Leeland Yee, i can understand why cops want body armor and AFVs…

    redc1c4 (269d8e)

  35. the working name for this executive order in the white house is “making it easier for cops to be cannon fodder so we can get a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded as the military”

    sound awake (beb21b)

  36. A police force that’s equipped like a military force and patrols like one is one, and posse comitatus should apply. The whole point of posse comitatus is to prevent that sort of thing.

    Milhouse (bdebad)

  37. I am not grasping why local PDs “need” tracked vehicles, auto weapons, grenade launchers, 50 cal. and more like that. Our cops are not soldiers, and we should not equip them as soldiers, and increase the already disturbing distance between them and us.

    Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82)

  38. Why would police forces even want tracked vehicles?

    Even if you were evil and intent on imposing martial law on an unwilling population.

    Steve57 (fb1453)

  39. http://www.1-87vehicles.org/images/Military/m1070_tank_rs_lg.jpg

    Seriously folks. There’s a reason for this.

    Steve57 (fb1453)

  40. You want something with wheels for imposing martial law.

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7DT3ES_Oj0o/TAxFoTMRrKI/AAAAAAAAAAY/VCuOybJ-k0Y/s1600/Stryker_ATGM_Anti-Tank_Armoured_Vehicle_USA_03.jpg

    They’re more nimble and don’t tear up the roads.

    Steve57 (fb1453)

  41. “That information isn’t hard to find. Plenty of police departments have and use tracked vehicles.”

    Chuck – Nobody is questioning whether tracked or wheeled surplus vehicles were purchased. The vehicle pictured in your Huffpo link is wheeled, not tracked. What I and others are questioning is what police departments are deploying vehicles with loaded .50 caliber machine guns and whether they have ever been used. Same with grenade launchers.

    Find some easy info on that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  42. Huff Po!?!?!? Ye Gods, who are we dealing with?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  43. Militarized is a bad term… the military does not use the tactics that police use.

    In Fergusun, after the “gentle giant” was killed in what I believe was a completely legit shoot, the locals started to protest. At the time, the protest was peaceful. The cops showed up in full riot gear, so clearly the cops being “ready for the riot” isn’t enough to stop a riot. But they brought in a (wheeled, not tracked) APC. A cop in camo (not urban camo, served no useful purpose but to look like the military not the police) sat on top of the APC. His whole body was exposed, so clearly he felt no need for armor. He wanted elevation. And he surveiled the crowd through the scope of his rifle.

    From the camera angles I’ve seen, I cannot tell about his trigger finger discipline. But a cop peering at a crowd through the scope of a rifle does not say “to protect and serve.” It does not say “I support your first amendment rights, I’m just here to enforce the law.” It says “give me a reason and I will blow you away.”

    For the record, if I took a rifle, loaded or not, or even an Airsoft, and put a scope on it and surveiled the bleachers of my local Little League team, do you think the cops would arrest me? Why is it different when it is a cop pointing a rifle at people who are doing nothing wrong?

    Dr_Mike (caacfc)

  44. More than 8,000 law enforcement agencies around the country participate in 1033. Since the program’s inception, the Pentagon has transferred property worth $5.1 billion. Last year, half a billion dollars’ worth of gear was transferred, according to the Defense Logistics Agency, which manages the transfers.

    Equipment is free, but law enforcement agencies must pay maintenance and transportation costs.

    Some of the items — Humvees, mine-resistant ambush-protected (MRAP) vehicles, aircraft (rotary and fixed wing), boats, sniper scopes and M-16s — raise eyebrows.

    But only about 5 percent of the equipment is weapons, and fewer than 1 percent is tactical vehicles, according to the defense official.

    Much of the gear is non-military items, such as office equipment, blankets and sleeping bags, computers, digital cameras and video recorders, binoculars, flashlights, extreme weather clothing, repair tools, first-aid supplies and TVs.

    The official said all tactical vehicles are “stripped down” before they are given to law enforcement, and are without weapons.

    http://www.stripes.com/how-and-why-local-police-departments-get-military-surplus-equipment-1.299570

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  45. as long as the piggies get their pensions they don’t much care about all these fancy toys i imagine

    but…

    good luck with them pensions piggies

    happyfeet (831175)

  46. All of this is leftist trickery where they exert pressure for radical change from below (riots, protests) and from above (new laws, selective law enforcement, executive action). Create the illusion that people (clear-thinking, productive members of society who are the real majority) are hopelessly outnumbered by this “new” America, while they relentlessly push the “racist America” narrative and foment disunity and discord.

    All orchestrated by Barack Obama, “the Great Uniter”.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  47. ‘a civilian national security force, just as large as the Pentagon, and just as well funded’

    narciso (ee1f88)

  48. Btw the guy arrested for the brutal killings in DC camefrom Guyana in 2000. Illegal?

    patricia (5fc097)

  49. The vehicle pictured in your Huffpo link is wheeled, not tracked.

    First, it wasn’t HuffPo, it was Esquire; get your facts straight. Second, just do a Google search for “police using tanks”. There are all kinds of pictures of tracked vehicles with police insignia.

    Gosh, Here’s one from Tampa Police, and it only took me about 2 seconds to find.

    What I and others are questioning is what police departments are deploying vehicles with loaded .50 caliber machine guns and whether they have ever been used.

    Given that the proposed law bans tracked vehicles regardless of whether they are mounted with machine guns or grenade launchers, your quest is unfairly narrow. But here’s a picture of what looks to be a large-caliber rifle attached to a police tank

    The point shouldn’t be whether these items have been misused by the police, but whether civilian law enforcement should be using them at all. You seem to be okay with that. I’m not.

    Chuck Bartowski (3e0e89)

  50. “That information isn’t hard to find. Plenty of police departments have and use tracked vehicles. Like a small town in Iowa”
    –Chuck Bartowski@ 34

    Chuck, did you actually read your own link? Look at the picture?

    I suspect not, because what they are referring to as a “tank” is a wheeled armored truck with no main gun, automatic weapons or any other obvious offensive weapons…In other words, it has nothing that makes a “tank” a “tank”

    Here is the money quote from your own link:

    It’s a military-issued MRAP and they don’t really want you calling it a tank. . They don’t want you to call it a tank, because it isn’t a tank. Calling that vehicle a tank would be like calling a Brinks truck a tank.

    So, I am moved again to ask…are there any actual examples of the Federal Government giving tracked vehicles, .50 caliber machine guns, grenade launchers, or weaponized aircraft to plice departments or is this just Obama administration baloney?

    Mustang (2dd274)

  51. here is the problem, in Ferguson the police did not react to the first wave of lootings, but the second, I figure the CRS, probably had something to do with it, then the MRAPs did come in a week or so later, then certain people got the vapors,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  52. Given that the proposed law bans tracked vehicles regardless of whether they are mounted with machine guns or grenade launchers, your quest is unfairly narrow. But here’s a picture of what looks to be a large-caliber rifle attached to a police tank

    You see, Chuck, this is a prime example of why I do not trust anything that you post.

    I will lay aside your obvious distortion of calling an armored truck a tank for the moment. In a thread dealing with the issue of the US Government giving tracked vehicles, .50 caliber machine guns and weaponized aircraft, you post that link in an obvious effort to mislead the readers.

    The link that you posted is to a Dingo 2 vehicle made by a German firm and sold to security forces in Afghanistan and other world hot spots. There is no record of these vehicles being given to any US Police Agency nor being used by any police agency…and especially in the configuration that your link depicts.

    Pretty low, Chuck…

    http://www.kmweg.com/home/wheeled-vehicles/dingo-family-part-1/dingo-2-police/product-information.html

    Mustang (2dd274)


  53. here is the problem, in Ferguson the police did not react to the first wave of lootings, but the second, I figure the CRS, probably had something to do with it, then the MRAPs did come in a week or so later, then certain people got the vapors,


    If the police acted from the get-go with a controlled yet effective response to looters and taking control, then perhaps it would have never escalated to the point of MRAPs being brought in.

    Dana (86e864)

  54. R.I.P. Harlem Globetrotters great Marques Haynes, dead at 89

    Icy (797871)

  55. “First, it wasn’t HuffPo, it was Esquire; get your facts straight.”

    Chuck – My mistake. With respect to the rest of your BS, again where are the machine guns, etc. you were getting your panties in a wad about in #34?

    Since it’s so easy to find that info, why am I still waiting?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  56. My sheriff has one of those MRAP things… It makes wonderful shade for the rabbits that inhabit the yard where it is parked, apparently for a long time since the grass around it is long. The last time it “rolled” was about a year ago when a rancher wigged out and started shooting the neighbor’s dogs, and when the neighbor took issue, shot at him. The MRAP provided excellent cover for the officers who had to go in and remove the neighbor to a safe place for the Paramedics to take over.

    The shooter was apprehended by more traditional means and is under care for his mental problems and evaluation for suitability to prosecute. The MRAP went back to its primary job as a heavy-duty rabbit hutch.

    Another city had one of these MRAPs and when people complained, the city council got its panties in a wad, so the cops gave it back to the Fed…. Several months later they had one of those barricaded domestic disputes that ended in hot lead and death of a participant and the cops had to borrow a neighboring jurisdiction’s MRAP to get close enough to deal with the problem. No one is talking about what effect if any the delay in getting the borrowed MRAP to the scene had on the final outcome. Which was 2 dead, neither at the hands of the cops.

    @44– Doc, next time you have a chance, scan the roof tops and building parapets around a large demonstration. You will note that the crowds are being watched, often through a scope. Its been like that for years, if not decades. The guy in the “tank” (your word) was just a better photo op.

    Gramps, the original (9e1415)

  57. @57- Gramps

    Yes, I am aware that cops frequently surveil groups of people by pointing rifles at them and using the scopes. I am aware that the guy on the APC was more obvious than most. And I did not use the word “tank” I used the term “APC.”

    So am I supposed to feel good about a guy clearly sweeping a crowd of US citizens with a rifle? Should I feel better because he was obvious about it, or because they do it all the time they just usually aren’t as obvious? I think this was a clear attempt to intimidate a crowd that was, at the time, peaceful.

    And again, if I got out a rifle and started looking over a crowd through the scope, would I or would I not get arrested? Why is it OK for the cops to do, but would be considered brandishing, and probably assault, if I were to do it?

    I routinely see cops driving 30 over the limit, rolling through stop signs, tailgating, and other traffic offenses that they would arrest me for (this is without lights and sirens, if the turn the lights on to respond to an emergency they move into a different legal category.) Am I also supposed to be fine with that becuase it also has been going on for decades?

    Dr_Mike (caacfc)

  58. I have no problem with police officers having the equipment needed to protect themselves as they do they bidding of the community at large, but, c’mon, it IS a civilian police force. Why do they need weaponized aircraft, or bayonets..?? It’s also hard to think of a good reason to have tracked vehicles. Hard to imagine where a powerful, all wheel drive wheeled vehicle would not suffice in a civilian police force.

    NeoCon_1 (0a21d6)

  59. “Why do they need weaponized aircraft, or bayonets..?? It’s also hard to think of a good reason to have tracked vehicles.”–NeoCon

    As I have asked…is there any evidence that any US Police Department or Sheriff’s Office has ever received weaponized aircraft or bayonets from the Federal Government? If not, isn’t this just grandstanding by the Obama administration–solving a problem that doesn’t exist just for the bragging rights to having done something?

    Calfed (2dd274)

  60. As I have asked…is there any evidence that any US Police Department or Sheriff’s Office has ever received weaponized aircraft or bayonets from the Federal Government? If not, isn’t this just grandstanding by the Obama administration

    No, it’s more likely the administration clarifying and/or narrowing the DOD’s Program 1033. That stuff may not have been given to civilian police departments, but it also wasn’t prohibited. This is just providing guidelines on what is allowed.

    Chuck – My mistake. With respect to the rest of your BS, again where are the machine guns, etc. you were getting your panties in a wad about in #34?

    I don’t check this blog regularly, I’ve got better things to do with my life, and I’m certainly not in any hurry to rush to your every demand.

    For your information, my panties aren’t — and have never been — in a wad. I really don’t give a crap about what you think of me. And I did provide a picture of a police vehicle with a gun mounted on it. Apparently you didn’t check the link. Go back and look again.

    You see, Chuck, this is a prime example of why I do not trust anything that you post.

    Yeah, I’m all hurt that some unknown person on the internet doesn’t trust anything I post. I think I’m going to go curl up in a ball and cry. Woe is me.

    Hey, if you all really love the police having military equipment, that’s fine by me. Just don’t pretend to be small-government advocates. You love that the state has gobs and gobs of power, you’re just arguing over who should have control of that power: you or the Democrats.

    Chuck Bartowski (11fb31)

  61. “Yeah, I’m all hurt that some unknown person on the internet doesn’t trust anything I post. I think I’m going to go curl up in a ball and cry. Woe is me.”–Chuck Bartowski

    LOL…the old “I don’t give a damn if you caught me phonying up my arguments, I don’t know you” defense.

    The only thing you could have added was “So there!” to the end of your post.

    Mustang (2dd274)

  62. Yes Gramps, the original, I know about people on rooftops.

    George HW came to our immediate neighborhood in Philly back in the day when he was visiting inner cities. It was interesting to see the people up on the neighborhood buildings, and the fake motorcades and such.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  63. Oh, maybe you were making reference to a comment from another “doc”.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  64. Better that citizens not be offended by the sight of police officers wearing gear specifically designed to protect them and potentially save their lives – from the very people who might be offended by it. Message received.

    Sorry, Dana, not with you on this one.

    Don’t see cops as needing any of the following, under ANY circumstances (if the circumstances are so dire as to need these things, then that’s what the NATIONAL GUARD is for):

    grenade launchers
    bayonets
    tank-like armored vehicles that move on tracks
    firearms and ammunition of .50 caliber or higher
    weaponized aircraft

    Seriously? Cops need GRENADE LAUNCHERS to defend themselves?

    If they do, then they should be calling in the national guard for assistance. Not going from an law enforcement group to a full military organization.

    IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d)

  65. Perhaps we should be training our officers to hand out bouquets of flowers as a way of defusing conflict situations.

    I could be mistaken, but grenade launchers do not strike me as designed to “defuse conflict situations”.

    Yes, they’ll do it… but not in the manner generally desired.

    But maybe that’s just me.

    IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d)

  66. “I could be mistaken, but grenade launchers do not strike me as designed to “defuse conflict situations”.”

    IGotBupkis – You mean you believe what Obama says? What if they launch tear gas?

    How do you feel about the machine guns?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)


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