Patterico's Pontifications

5/6/2015

New York Times’s “Muslim Man on the Street” Has . . . Unusual Background

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:57 pm

The New York Times has a piece titled Shooting Clouds Life as Both Muslim and Texan, which examines the reactions of Typical Muslims from the Dallas area to the shooting in Garland. Extended attention is given to one Mohamed Elibiary. You can tell he’s a Regular Muslim Guy whose opinion is worth ten paragraphs in an article in the nation’s largest newspaper. Why, just look at the guy, with his Texan shirt:

Screen Shot 2015-05-06 at 10.12.37 PM

I am going to quote the entirety of the paper’s discussion with Elibiary, starting with his introduction to the reader:

Mohamed Elibiary, 39, a founder of the North Texas Islamic Council — and a former member of the Homeland Security Advisory Council, which provides advice and recommendations to the secretary of Homeland Security — said he, too, found the idea behind the event in Garland on Sunday insulting. But, he added, that did not mean it warranted a reaction.

“It’s a gimmick,” he said. “Pamela Geller and people like her have no power. All they can do is cause commotion and bait people into things.”

I don’t know about you, but a guy who gave advice to Homeland Security seems like a guy we want to hear from. Wow. Hey, I wonder if he ever wore that Texas shirt while giving the advice? It’s like the New York Times knows that I want to hear more from this fella — and man, do they ever accommodate me:

Caricatures of the prophet are offensive to him and to others, Mr. Elibiary said, but reactions vary. Not everyone is interested in the arguments of Ms. Geller, who has defended herself by arguing that her enemies are simply trying to crush “truth and freedom.”

Mr. Elibiary said, “You’ve got to remember, I live a middle-class lifestyle in a first-world country.”

“I have plenty of opportunities to express myself,” he said, “and I’m in no way disenfranchised. People who usually react violently to that have a totally different life experience.”

Mr. Elibiary, who was born in Egypt and grew up in the Dallas area, runs a security consulting firm from his home in Plano, a suburb of Dallas that is a short drive from Garland. On Tuesday afternoon, he was wearing a button-down shirt emblazoned with the Texas flag.

Many of those who attended the Garland event were not from there, he pointed out, or even from Texas.

“These aren’t native Texans that are gravitating to picking a fight with their neighbors,” he said.

Similarly, he added, Muslims in the Dallas region view the two gunmen — who lived in the same apartment complex in Phoenix — as outsiders.

“Their actions don’t go into our calculus,” Mr. Elibiary said.

Don’t mess with Texas Muslims! This guy is clearly the salt of the earth. Runs a security firm. Advised Homeland Security. And need I remind you about the shirt?

If your spidey sense — something about my tone, perhaps? — suggests that there is another shoe about to drop, then your spidey sense is spidey indeed. Because as it turns out, this guy has some very unusual friends and opinions.

For one thing, he is pals with at least one terrorist. In a 2013 interview, Elibiary described his long, “tight friendship” with Shukri Abu Baker of Garland, Texas, now serving a 65-year sentence in federal prison for providing material support to a designated foreign terrorist organization, money laundering, and other crimes. (Elibiary thinks he’s innocent — natch.)

Hmmm. The New York Times didn’t mention any of that.

Remember the detail in the New York Times piece about how Mr. Elibiary is a “former” DHS advisor? Yeah, well, it appears the “former” part is no accident. Here is a Pajamas Media piece on our friend Mr. Elibiary from January which explains:

In September, Elibiary was unceremoniously removed from his fellowship position with the Department of Homeland Security, which he tried to spin as a “resignation,” but letters sent to members of Congress by DHS officials indicated he would not be reappointed.

The Pajamas Media piece lists other several troubling facts about Mr. Elibiary’s history of support for radical Islam, including speaking at a conference honoring the Ayatollah Khomeini as a “Great Islamic Visionary,” boasting of the “inevitable” return of the Islamic caliphate (a prediction celebrated by ISIS), putting a Muslim Brotherhood icon on his Twitter account, and so forth.

The New York Times didn’t mention any of that either! Hmmmmm . . .

It’s almost as if the NYT reporter went to CAIR in Dallas and said: “hey, give us a nice Muslim guy to talk to” –and was directed to Elibiary. And so, without any investigation into his disturbing past, they did what they do best: stenography for PC opinions.

That’s the best spin they can put on this: that they didn’t bother to Google this guy.

The worst spin would be that they did Google him, and just decided not to tell you about what they found.

Either way, you won’t learn this information from reading the trained journalists. They have their agenda to spread, and they’re not going to let a little thing like facts get in the way.

P.S. Times editors, if you want a real Man on the Street, let me know. I know a guy who will give you some dynamite quotes — and as far as I know, has befriended zero convicted terrorist supporters. His name is Greg Packer. Just say the word and I’ll hook you up.

84 Responses to “New York Times’s “Muslim Man on the Street” Has . . . Unusual Background”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. he doesn’t even live in Garland

    happyfeet (831175)

  3. Wow! And they dressed him up in a Lone Star State shirt.

    How impressed could I be?

    Not enough to subscribe to the NYT.

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  4. …And need I remind you about the shirt?

    If your spidey sense — something about my tone, perhaps? — suggests that there is another shoe about to drop, then your spidey sense is spidey indeed. Because as it turns out, this guy has some very unusual friends and opinions…

    Have I mentioned the mule thing with the kick and being slow on the uptake?

    Steve57 (818fa4)

  5. looks like Tex’s daddy is a big player in the islamist sandbox as well

    Nabil Elibiary is the Director of Islamic Association of North Texas, Incorporated…

    It appears that the director of IANT, the group building a Muslim neighborhood, is the father of the DHS advisor:

    My oldest son Mohamed Elibiary became politically active, and started a political empowerment organization, for Muslims and non-Muslims “The Freedom and Justice Foundation (F&J)”

    The Freedom and Justice party is also the name of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

    i hope they’re not doing on Texas what they did on Michigan

    but there’s very little i can do about it

    happyfeet (831175)

  6. but I do worry

    happyfeet (831175)

  7. If money is speech, then shouldn’t people be able to donate their money as they see fit? Without going to prison? Shouldn’t it be unconstitutional to throw someone in prison for exercising their right of free speech by supporting a Terrorist Organization?

    Leviticus (14cc4f)

  8. What has this guy done wrong, in the eyes of a pro-speech crowd?

    Leviticus (14cc4f)

  9. Mr. Leviticus NYT propaganda sluts Manny Fernandez & Laurie Goodstein use our friend Tex to insinuate that Pamela and Co. had no business in Texas – they’re suggesting that Pam picked Texas cause of there were vague and thinly sourced “tensions” there to exploit … a huge chunk of the propaganda piece is devoted to this idea

    The shooting in Texas, showcasing that there are Islamic extremists in the United States encouraged by radicals overseas, comes just as Muslims here have been confronting suspicions about their faith and loyalty.

    An imam who gave a nondenominational prayer at the Fort Worth Stock Show and Rodeo in Feb, at the invitation of organizers seeking to be more inclusive, received so many hateful comments on social media afterward that he canceled a second scheduled appearance there .

    In Jan, at an annual lobbying day in the State Capitol for Muslims, Molly White, a state representative, told her staff members that any Muslim who entered her office must be asked to pledge allegiance to America and its laws and to renounce Islamic terrorist groups.

    The Texas Legislature is also considering a bill, similar to ones passed in other states , that would prohibit basing decisions in state courts on foreign legal codes. It was proposed by conservative activists who contend that the goal of Muslims in the United States is to gradually impose Islamic law, or Shariah – an assertion that Muslims say is false.

    Supporters of the Texas bill say that it is not anti-Muslim because it would prohibit the use of all foreign laws, not just Shariah. But for many Muslims here, the bill and other recent episodes amount to painful local evolution, with the old power structure of Texas struggling to make sense of a complicated, more diverse present.

    Many Muslims here defy easy categorization. They embrace their many identities – as Texans, Muslims and Americans. Many of them are registered Republicans. One former community leader, a Syrian-American businessman with ties to Garland, served in 2013 as prime minister of a Syrian opposition coalition’s interim government.

    For some, the shooting in Garland led to fear; the day after it happened, a 59-yr-old man at a mosque in the neighboring city of Richardson was punched and kicked by two men as he left a prayer service. Although the man told investigators that he believed he was most likely not targeted for his religion or ethnicity, the attack remains under investigation and has added to tensions.

    Many of those who attended the Garland event were not from there, he pointed out, or even from Texas.

    “These aren’t native Texans that are gravitating to picking a fight with their neighbors,” he said.

    Similarly, he added, Muslims in the Dallas region view the two gunmen – who lived in the same apartment complex in Phoenix – as outsiders.

    “Their actions don’t go into our calculus,” Mr. Elibiary said.

    But what do the propaganda sluts and their pal Tex fail to mention?

    Geller said on Fox News that she chose the Garland venue for the art exhibit because it was where American Muslim leaders held a conference on combating Islamophobia a week after the Charlie Hebdo attacks.*

    tex and his propaganda slut friends are disingenuous fiends

    this is obvious to anyone willing to do the analysis

    happyfeet (831175)

  10. oops i was supposed to have a transition sentence after the bolded “tensions” and before the “Many of those who attended the Garland event were not from there” part

    that’s where they bring in Tex to make it sound like Garland was just minding its own business when Hurricane Pam blew in all with all its fight-picking devastation

    happyfeet (831175)

  11. The NYT propaganda sluts frame the story like this:

    “The discussion we have to have is: When does free speech become hate speech, and when does hate speech become incitement to violence?” Ms. Salem said. “Free speech is not the same as responsible speech.”

    Here is some unusually helpful context for this assertion from the Associated Press. I’m copying the whole thing for in case it goes away.

    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150506/us-homegrown-terror-threats-other-cases-9db7932059.html

    Recent Examples Of Arrests In ‘Homegrown Terrorism’ Cases

    May 6 2015 6:51 PM ET

    This week’s attempted attack on a cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, raised concerns about the threat of terrorist activity by individuals in the U.S. inspired by the propaganda of the Islamic State group and other extremist organizations. Some other recent cases:

    – A Topeka, Kansas, man, John T. Booker, was charged April 10 with plotting a suicide bomb attack at Fort Riley, an Army base 70 miles away, as a gesture of support for the Islamic State group. Prosecutors allege he told an FBI informant he wanted to kill Americans and engage in violent jihad on behalf of the terrorist group. Another Topeka man, Alexander Blair, was charged with failing to report Booker’s plans to authorities.

    – Two New York City women – Noelle Velentzas and Asia Siddiqui – were arrested April 2 on charges they plotted to wage violent jihad by building a homemade bomb and using it for a Boston Marathon-type attack. Officers searching their homes recovered items including three gas tanks, a pressure cooker, handwritten notes on the recipes for bomb-making and jihadist literature, court papers said.

    – An Illinois Army National Guard soldier and his cousin were arrested in March on charges of plotting terrorist attacks in support of the Islamic State group. A federal complaint said Jonas Edmonds planned to attack an Illinois military facility while Hasan Edmonds joined Islamic State fighters.

    – In February, federal authorities charged three New York City men with planning to travel to Syria to join forces with the group also known as ISIS. Abdurasul Hasanovich Juraboev, Akhror Saidakhmetov and Abror Habibov were indicted on charges of conspiracy to provide material support to a foreign terrorist organization and travel document fraud.

    – A Ohio resident, Christopher Lee Cornell, was arrested in January and accused of plotting to attack the U.S. Capitol. He later said in a television interview that he wanted to shoot President Barack Obama in support of Islamic State militants.

    – Mufid Elfgeeh, a naturalized American citizen born in Yemen and living in Rochester, New York, was arrested last year on charges of trying to aid Islamic State extremists. Investigators said he tried to arrange for other individuals
    to travel to Syria to fight there.

    happyfeet (831175)

  12. You know your argument is bad when happyfeet is tearing it apart with his lily-soft fingers.

    Toastrider (4c0340)

  13. So what we can say with assurance is that Mohamed Elibiary is the NYT token Muslim. And that means that the NYT is practicing tokenism.

    Okay then.

    Dana (86e864)

  14. The NYT thinks you are stupid. This is not a new thing.

    JD (3b5483)

  15. It’s a sign of the Times.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  16. You’re really not paying attention, young whelp.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  17. His name is Greg Packer

    I waited in line for three days to buy this Texas flag shirt, and by the time I got to the front of the line, all they had were these Chilean flag shirts.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  18. Mohamed Taqiya Elibiary. Yes, I’ve read accounts written by his many, many moderate brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, cousins, neighbors, from here in the States, Britain, Cairo – all over.

    Sarc/off

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  19. You’re luck it wasn’t a Che shirt carlitos.

    Hoagie (58a3ec)

  20. Soooo… what has this guy done wrong, in the eyes of a pro-speech crowd?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  21. I welcome his speech and hope he does a lot more of it, especially putting the Muslim Brotherhood logo up. I want everyone to know what he thinks.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  22. OMG!!11! The New York Times has an agenda! Stop the dirty biased presses!

    Or we could, you know, talk about the issues of free speech that actually seem to be at the heart of this hoopla.

    Like, for instance: If speech is a constitutional right, and money is speech, then why does the US government lock people up for contributing money to overseas political causes that are unpopular in the US?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  23. (22 is not specifically directed at you, DRJ – just a cross-post)

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  24. Because America has foreign policy and national security interests to protect?

    DRJ (e80d46)

  25. “Like, for instance: If speech is a constitutional right, and money is speech, then why does the US government lock people up for contributing money to overseas political causes that are unpopular in the US?”

    Oh, you mean “political causes that are unpopular in the US”, like terrorist activities? Those kinds of “political causes”

    Mustang (2dd274)

  26. Hmm, because giving money to terrorist organizations is, conceivably going beyond political speech to funding action, action that is legally and morally wrong. You’re not being dumped in the slammer for exercising your free speech rights or for giving to political causes, you’re getting dumped in because you gave money to fund terrorist activities.

    lurkingestlurker (26ac75)

  27. If we don’t care about media sloth and bias — and Leviticus apparently doesn’t — maybe a better question than “why is funding terrorists wrong?” is “why are taxpayers funding Hamas?” It is, after all, the same organization Mr. Texan Shirt’s pal is serving hard time for supporting.

    Btw, “go murder that guy over there” is speech. It’s just criminal speech. Same with “oh, you’re off to the store to buy guns to murder that guy? Capital idea! Here’s some cash to help you in your mission.” Speech can be criminal, as can the provision of money to known killers. The link above begins with the observation: “The 1988 Hamas Charter explicitly commits the Palestinian terror group to murdering Jews.” And Hamas does murder Jews. I don’t have a problem with a law saying that helping Hamas is off the table.

    What I do have a problem with is Obama giving Hamas cash himself, however indirectly he may do so.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  28. what has this guy done wrong, in the eyes of a pro-speech crowd?

    Leviticus, I suggest you read the piece with more focus.

    “The discussion we have to have is: When does free speech become hate speech, and when does hate speech become incitement to violence?” Ms. Salem said. “Free speech is not the same as responsible speech.”

    Do you agree ? Should those Nazis not been allowed to march through Skokie ?

    “It’s a gimmick,” he said. “Pamela Geller and people like her have no power. All they can do is cause commotion and bait people into things.”

    Caricatures of the prophet are offensive to him and to others, Mr. Elibiary said, but reactions vary. Not everyone is interested in the arguments of Ms. Geller, who has defended herself by arguing that her enemies are simply trying to crush “truth and freedom.”

    What was his opinion of “piss Christ ?” What was your opinion ? Art or provocation ?

    Mike K (d85405)

  29. “Speech can be criminal, as can the provision of money to known killers.”

    – Patterico

    Speech can definitely be criminal, as can the provision of money to known killers, if the message is “go murder that guy over there” or “capital idea on the murder guns!.” Of course, we don’t worry about proving that that was actually the message. What is the message of a monetary donation?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  30. Mike K,

    I do agree that “free speech is not the same as responsible speech.” Free speech has to come first. It was right to allow those Nazis to march through Skokie. I have no opinion of “piss Christ,” and I say that as a Christian. It’s not a provocation unless it provokes, and it provokes nothing in me.

    What am I missing?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  31. I think we have foreign policy interests in restricting funding of foreign nations that threaten our and our allies’ national security. That’s why we prevent Americans from doing business with Iran and why we’ve asked for UN sanctions against Iran. Further, America also has an interest in preserving America, which is why we don’t allow foreigners to vote or donate to political campaigns. Yes, individuals have rights but they can be trumped by America’s interests.

    On the positive side, the courts have finally ruled the NSA spying went too far, so there are times when national security doesn’t trump individual rights.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  32. “On the positive side, the courts have finally ruled the NSA spying went too far, so there are times when national security doesn’t trump individual rights.”

    – DRJ

    Agreed. Having been reminded that it is possible for the government to cross a line in pursuit of national security, the task (in my opinion) shifts to inquiring as to where that line should be drawn.

    To say, though, that we don’t allow foreigners to vote or donate to political campaigns because “America has an interest in preserving America” seems to beg a pretty crucial question about who and what “America” is.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  33. “what has this guy done wrong, in the eyes of a pro-speech crowd?”

    Leviticus – I don’t see anybody from the pro-free speech crowd claiming he has done anything wrong, unless he has funded terrorists. The complaint is the NY Times should be more open and transparent about who the forker really is and that is not your run of the mill Muslim on the street.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  34. “The complaint is the NY Times should be more open and transparent about who the forker really is and that is not your run of the mill Muslim on the street.”

    – daleyrocks

    I think that’s a fair complaint.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  35. America is for Americans.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  36. I think we should send absentee ballots to everyone in Pali, Syria, and Iran.

    JD (bb5ba5)

  37. “America is for Americans.”

    – DRJ

    America is an idea that people embrace all over the world, and a force that injects itself all of the world whether the world likes it or not.

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  38. Who says the Obama administration isn’t sending those absentee ballots, JD?

    John Hitchcock (edaf0f)

  39. Water is an idea.
    Oxygen is an idea.
    Trees are ideas.

    John Hitchcock (edaf0f)

  40. America is for Americans.

    DRJ (e80d46) — 5/7/2015 @ 8:57 am

    When I read this, I thought that maybe you are ironically making fun of xenophobic types. But then I recalled your comment the other day about online sarcasm detection. Please – what do you mean by this?

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  41. That’s wonderful, isn’t it? I’m proud to live in such a wonderful country. I’d be happy to expand legal immigration so more people can come here legally. In the meantime, they can hope and dream — just as I hope and dream about going to Europe — but that doesn’t mean I get to live or vote there.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  42. I am not being sarcastic, carlitos, but I’m glad you asked. It is hard to tell sometimes.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  43. I believe America is for Americans. If you want to come here legally and become an American, welcome. But if you want to come here and practice Sharia, that’s not American. Just stay where Sharia is practiced. Just like I said about the question “Should I move from California to Texas?”, if you’re a Leftist, stay in the California you helped destroy, but if you’re Conservative, by all means, move to Texas.

    John Hitchcock (edaf0f)

  44. America hasn’t injected itself into the rest of the world under Obama (if you don’t count drones). How do you think the world likes slumbering America now, Leviticus?

    DRJ (e80d46)

  45. Wow. I like to think of my city / state / country as being for everyone. Interesting POV.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  46. But if you want to come here and practice Sharia, that’s not American.
    John Hitchcock (edaf0f) — 5/7/2015 @ 9:28 am

    Good point. It’s not like America was founded by religious zealots who were booted out of Europe for their beliefs, and who enshrined a separation of Church and State in our Constitution.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  47. I think of my city/state/country as not welcoming of Pol Pot or Joseph Stalin. But that’s me. I like being free, and being allowed to wear an American Flag t-shirt on every day in May if I so choose.

    John Hitchcock (edaf0f)

  48. There is no “separation of Church and State” enshrined in our Constitution.

    John Hitchcock (edaf0f)

  49. The “Separation of Church and State” clause sits right beside the “Abortion on Demand” clause.

    John Hitchcock (edaf0f)

  50. and Conyer’s ‘good and plenty’ clause,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  51. A number of Muslim majority countries have been supporting the creation of international anti-blasphemy laws and the movement has been actively aided by the Obama Administration State Department. That movement has not gotten sufficient notice inside the U.S., but it would prohibit criticism of Islam, exactly what the anti-free speech movement wants.

    If people are not free to criticize the more extreme aspects of Islam without fear of violence in this country, even with cartoons, is it any wonder so-called “moderate” Muslims are so few and far between or cowed into silence?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  52. “There is no “separation of Church and State” enshrined in our Constitution.”

    – John Hitchcock

    So how would the imposition of Sharia law be un-American, then?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  53. it’s the entire OIC, daley which is proposing those rules,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  54. from the other thread,

    http://patterico.com/2010/08/20/accepted-wisdom-on-the-ground-zero-mosque/

    seeing the involvement of the NAIT in this affair,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  55. James Madison, on separation of church and state:

    J.P. (cc46f4)

  56. apparently, there are no ambulances to be found in New Mexico.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  57. Aniconism in Islam is a proscription in Islam against the creation of images of sentient beings. The most absolute proscription is of images of God in Islam, followed by depictions of Muhammad, and then Islamic prophets and the relatives of Muhammad, but the depiction of all humans and animals is discouraged in the hadith and by the long tradition of Islamic authorities, especially Sunni ones.

    I question the man’s Muslim credentials assuming he allowed his picture in a newspaper.

    Neo (d1c681)

  58. NT Times is a rag. Has been for a very long time.

    Rodney King's Spirit (b31520)

  59. and Conyer’s ‘good and plenty’ clause,

    narciso (ee1f88) — 5/7/2015 @ 9:43 am

    Or Conyers’ “good and plenty” clause, even.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExSlyoVTX3I

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  60. apparently, there are no ambulances to be found in New Mexico.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/7/2015 @ 11:58 am

    Did you ever think:
    Where are New Orleans’ busses?
    Not New Mexico

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  61. YOu mean the town run by Mister Chocolate, who is now in prison?

    John Hitchcock (edaf0f)

  62. carlitos,

    I said “America is for Americans” and I think your statement that “45.Wow. I like to think of my city / state / country as being for everyone. Interesting POV” was made in response to that. If you are willing, and I hope you are, then let’s discuss our views by stating each other’s position in a way we each think the other person would agree. I’ll start:

    I think you believe America should be a welcoming nation as demonstrated by the Statue of Liberty, a “living symbol of freedom to millions around the world,” and the iconic Emma Lazarus poem that welcomes all immigrants. American communities shouldn’t care about immigrants’ legal status because we are a nation of wealth. America can afford to be welcoming and morally should be welcoming.

    Have I correctly stated your point of view? If not, please correct me.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  63. I’m not sure if you agree with Leviticus’ point of view. If so, you might also say that legal status shouldn’t matter when it comes to rights. America recognizes the natural rights of all people, so America should extend its citizens’ rights to all.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  64. I live in a city founded and developed by immigrants, from Jean-Baptiste Point du Sable to my Danish grandparents. Most of the latter immigrants from Europe went through Ellis Island, and I think that this was a good thing. I’m not a big fan of the leaky Southern border, and yes I do care about immigrants’ legal status. I think that, if we were so motivated, we could fix the whole problem with the following:

    Secure Southern border. Seriously, secure.
    Many, many more visas for skilled workers that we need, like engineers, computer programmers, etc.
    2 or 4 year automatic visa extension for anyone completing post-graduate degrees in the US.

    So, while “America for Americans” strikes me a little too John Birch Society, maybe you and I aren’t so far apart in this regard?

    In my opinion, we should certainly extend our rights to folks who are here, irregardless of how they or their parents arrived.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  65. I’d add that I agree with Patterico’s “deport the criminals first” stance, and that I’d eliminate sanctuary cities.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  66. I appears you aren’t interested in a Patterico-style discussion. That’s fine, but I am. Perhaps someone else wants to take on carlitos’ position?

    DRJ (e80d46)

  67. However, we do have one thing in common: Danish ancestors. So we got that going for us.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  68. carlitos,

    Maybe you aren’t familiar with Patterico’s discussion rules. If so, I apologize.

    If you want to engage in this discussion, then you first need to respond with whether you agree or disagree with my statement of your position (my comments 65 and 66). If my statement is wrong or incomplete, you can tell me where I’m wrong and ask me to restate your position.

    Once I’ve correctly stated your position, then we do the same thing in reverse for my position — you state your understanding, I agree or disagree and, if I disagree, I tell you why and you restate my position.

    Interested?

    DRJ (e80d46)

  69. The reason to do this style of discussion is that it’s much easier to address a subject in good faith if we’ve shown we understand the other person’s point of view.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  70. But does Greg Packer have a Texas Flag shirt?

    Dejectedhead (4bfcf6)

  71. Oh Sorry DRJ, I missed the part about the rules. That might have happened while I was on a Patterico hiatus. Reminds me of Dennis Prager’s radio show – clarity rather than agreement.

    Let me get back to you.

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  72. tell me why must he
    now why must he chase teh bus?
    must be dog in him

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  73. Sure thing, carlitos. It can be fun and often we find we agree more than they disagree.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  74. Oops. We disagree, not they.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  75. DRJ – I do apologize but there is a hockey playoff game and we have some personal stuff going on.

    I think you believe America should be a welcoming nation as demonstrated by the Statue of Liberty, a “living symbol of freedom to millions around the world,” and the iconic Emma Lazarus poem that welcomes all immigrants. American communities shouldn’t care about immigrants’ legal status because we are a nation of wealth. America can afford to be welcoming and morally should be welcoming.

    Yes, I believe that we should be a welcoming nation. No, I disagree that we should not care about immigrants’ legal status. The issues that I have with immigrant status are:
    “Wet foot, dry foot” – this is stupid. If Cubans get here, we should welcome them. We’d be better off if Cuba was the 53rd state, after Puerto rico and Guam.
    Porous Southern border.
    Lack of understanding that we need skilled labor from other countries.
    Sanctuary cities.

    So, maybe you could state my position as:
    Borders should be open, but controlled. Free movement of labor is a good thing. America, the country and the ideal, should indeed be welcoming.

    I’m not sure what else to add?

    carlitos (c24ed5)

  76. carlitos,

    First, life always comes first so please don’t apologize or explain. Second, that is a great response. We can resume at a later time if you want, but I can already see there are several areas we on which we agree. Thank you and enjoy the game.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  77. Greg al Packer? You know him?

    ras (9fc4b2)

  78. The USofA no longer believes in defeating her mortal enemies on foreign soil.

    We invite the in give them EBT cards subprime home and car loans and wait for them to attack civilians at a place and time of their choosing.

    Belief that these are bad people that want to hurt us is intolerable and must be expunged from our midst.

    While a midst still persists.

    DNF (208255)

  79. “America is an idea that people embrace all over the world, and a force that injects itself all of the world whether the world likes it or not.”

    The first half of the 20th century is what the modern world was like before America injected itself. I’ll give you a hint, other countries did much more than ‘inject themselves’ to their neighbor on a very regular basis.

    Its ironic that American hegemony can be made seem wrong against the canvas of relative peace and security and independence that America played the major part in providing the world. But that period is over. Enjoy getting what you wanted.

    jpm100 (5250bd)

  80. That’s not very good trolling, Leviticus. I rate it 2/10.

    This kind of thing doesn’t happen by accident. The NYT is no longer just promoting a narrative, it is now actively deceiving its readers in furtherance of a murderous ideology.

    Walter Duranty would be proud.

    TallDave (533ad3)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.5928 secs.