Patterico's Pontifications

4/18/2015

Surprise Live Chat — Actually, Open Thread!

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:11 pm



It’s been more than three years since I did one of these, but what the hell.

UPDATE: The software sucks and is too expensive. Use the comments — consider it an open thread but understand I will be live with you for the next hour or so at least. I’m tucking the crappy expensive widget beneath the fold. Ignore it.

UPDATE x2: I have moved the live chat (now closed) to this page for archival purposes. It is slowing down this thread too much.

This is now just an open thread and nothing more.

Except you have me live until probably 11 p.m. Pacific.

270 Responses to “Surprise Live Chat — Actually, Open Thread!”

  1. Ding, just to get it in recent comments. But don’t comment. Chat.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. What about the WordPress Live Chat? Is that what you were using?

    DRJ (e80d46)

  3. UPDATE: The software sucks and is too expensive. Use the comments — consider it an open thread but understand I will be live with you for the next hour or so at least. I’m tucking the crappy expensive widget beneath the fold. Ignore it.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  4. Do we have a topic?

    luagha (1de9ec)

  5. Um, OK, for me, the chat comments just changed from latest at the top to latest at the bottom, but there is no way to add new chat comments. I think that’s why the silence?

    JVW (a1146f)

  6. Hello everyone. Let’s talk.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  7. He closed the Live Chat and we’re talking in these comments, JVW.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  8. Oh, these comments. Thanks DRJ.

    JVW (a1146f)

  9. Well, hello there. Comment section is now the chat. Sorry you’ll have to refresh so much, but there is no decent client out there. Bah.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  10. So, how bad is Hillary! anyway?

    No, that’s too easy.

    JVW (a1146f)

  11. OK, raise your hand and let me know you’re there. DRJ and JVW are there. luagha? BK Watch? Dana? “Wee Willie Keeler”? Let me know you’re there!

    Patterico (9c670f)

  12. Here are 2 topics to discuss: The mysterious Walmart closings OR the Bush campaign leaking dirt on Rubio. The Bushes know how to play dirty politics.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  13. Sigh. It’s not the same.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  14. I have not seen the stuff about Bush/Rubio. Shoot us a link.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  15. If we talk they will come, Patterico.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  16. The WalMart closings are weird.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  17. If you had the choice of the following:

    Hillary!’s wealth
    Ted Cruz’s intellect
    Marco Rubio’s youth and good looks
    Al Hirt’s trumpet playing ability
    Rand Paul’s collection of fine bourbons
    Elizabeth Warren’s media protection,

    which would you choose?

    JVW (a1146f)

  18. Here!

    Dana (86e864)

  19. I am here, I have a comment in moderation. As for Hillary, I think she will not make it to the nomination. Her health has been poor and it might well be the excuse they use to get her out. But once the serious travel and flying starts, it will wear on her old stroke-ridden bones and she will look worse and worse, just physically.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  20. Clever choices, JVW. Hm…

    Dana (86e864)

  21. Dana!!!

    Patterico (9c670f)

  22. DRJ said on the McHenry thread:

    Do I detect a hint of nullification, Patterico? Surely not!

    I’m keeping all my comments here for now, so I’ll respond here. No nullification at all. I don’t like lawsuits and see no lawsuit based on what I know now. And “you cut out the provocation” does not equal false light or defamation to me.

    Of course, as a two-time defendant in frivolous lawsuits, I have no doubt become more cynical about civil plaintiffs.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  23. Walmart closings: Standard Wal-mart anti-union tactics. Maybe true, even, but still standard. Wal-Mart will happily close down a store rather than have it be unionized or controlled.

    Rubio: He gave in on amnesty and he showed wearkness in the wrong place and the wrong way. I know he’ll roll over again and I just can’t hack that. I’ll vote for whoever gets through the primary but I can’t vote for him in the primary.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  24. SEK wrote a truly wretched piece in slate or somewhere in the last few days. Don’t remember the subject (does it really matter)? He doesn’t really comment here any longer does he?

    JVW (a1146f)

  25. If you had the choice of the following:

    Hillary!’s wealth
    Ted Cruz’s intellect
    Marco Rubio’s youth and good looks
    Al Hirt’s trumpet playing ability
    Rand Paul’s collection of fine bourbons
    Elizabeth Warren’s media protection,

    which would you choose?

    As a personal attribute? or for a President?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  26. Wal-Mart closing for plumbing problems? Seriously?

    Dana (86e864)

  27. Next time, may I recommend a program like TeamSpeak or Curse Voice for an *actual* live chat?

    JWB (6cba10)

  28. SEK wrote a truly wretched piece in slate or somewhere in the last few days. Don’t remember the subject (does it really matter)? He doesn’t really comment here any longer does he?

    I defriended him on Facebook. Don’t really care to go into it in detail, but it was a combination of a) his unfairly calling me intellectually dishonest at the outset of a discussion and b) a realization that I don’t enjoy reading him at all any more.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  29. Hopefully Brett Kimberlin starts experiencing more real consequences for his wrongdoing.

    Statistically, he’ll probably be alive for at least another 20 years, and I get the feeling he’ll be cheating and suing people that whole time if others don’t intervene to stop that from happening.

    BKWatch (499875)

  30. Wal-Mart closing for plumbing problems? Seriously?

    For . . . six months?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  31. @DRJ, for as awful as the Bushies can be on matters of principle, they certainly know their way in the political arena. I know it’s trendy to hate on Karl Rove, but all the guy ever did was win elections.

    JVW (a1146f)

  32. BK Watch!!!!

    So you are not Kimberlin Unmasked?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  33. Where is luagha? And Wee Willie Whatever?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  34. What did Bushies dump on Rubio?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  35. I defriended him on Facebook.

    Yeah, I knew that. But in his petulance he stops engaging with us?

    On the other hand, I would never bother to respond to one of his slate pieces so I guess I can see it from his lens.

    JVW (a1146f)

  36. It’s very risky to bring a defamation lawsuit because you put your entire reputation and everything you’ve ever done into play. So I would counsel anyone to think very hard before pursuing a defamation claim. But put aside that case and your own case. In theory, it seems to me that manipulating someone’s words to make them look bad is flirting with a false light claim.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  37. My other comments were in moderation. Trying another broswer.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  38. I like to live the sort of life so that it’s impossible to defame me. Saves me the legal fees.

    JVW (a1146f)

  39. I’m not Kimberlin Unmasked and don’t know him. I do sometimes send him positive feedback on his posts, though. I think Brett Kimberlin tips his hand with the way he reacts to some of these negative media portrayals.

    BKWatch (499875)

  40. Yeah, I knew that. But in his petulance he stops engaging with us?

    SEK has not commented here in a while. I can check how long it’s been. I predict 6-8 months.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  41. I would sue if someone tried to offame (that’s not really a word, is it?) me.

    JVW (a1146f)

  42. See my link at 22 for the Bush-Rubio story. There aren’t many details. My guess is some Bush allies are saying Rubio’s record isn’t as conservative as he claims.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  43. SEK has not commented here in a while. I can check how long it’s been. I predict 6-8 months.

    Don’t bother. It’s not like anyone misses his bon mots. What is his background? Was he always a journalist, and why did he start commenting here to begin with?

    JVW (a1146f)

  44. See my link at 22 for the Bush-Rubio story. There aren’t many details. My guess is some Bush allies are saying Rubio’s record isn’t as conservative as he claims.

    Something that could be said about literally any GOP candidate ever.

    JVW (a1146f)

  45. Five Walmart stores across the country closed for 6 months each. All of them were closed on the same day, with no notice to employees, and there were no reports of plumbing code violations in any of the cities. Does that make sense to anyone?

    DRJ (e80d46)

  46. Why is it that the Maryland justice system is so hesitant to make someone a frivolous litigant? Is there any way to figure who is helping him out so much?

    luagha (1de9ec)

  47. Wal-Mart suddenly closed five stores in four states on Monday for alleged plumbing problems.

    The closures could last up to six months and affect roughly 2,200 workers in Texas, California, Oklahoma, and Florida, CNN Money reports.

    Local officials and employees have questioned Wal-Mart’s reasoning for the closures.

    According to ABC News, “no plumbing permits have been pulled in any of the five cities where the stores were suddenly closed for at least six months.” The cities where locations were closed include: Brandon, Florida; Pico Rivera, California; Livingston, Texas; Midland, Texas; and Tulsa, Oklahoma.

    Dana (86e864)

  48. True, JVW, but I think it surprises some people to see this happen since Bush and Rubio have reportedly had a close relationship for many years.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  49. Someone explain to me what is impressive about Rubio. I don’t see it.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  50. True, JVW, but I think it surprises some people to see this happen since Bush and Rubio have reportedly had a close relationship for many years.

    Again, the Bushies don’t play Marques of Queensbury rules. Rubio is a blocker, and he must be defeated.

    I like Jeb Bush, and I like the family (the new Bush Museum is so-so, but that’s another story), but I would prefer Rubio because I am tired of the same old Washington families.

    JVW (a1146f)

  51. He speaks Spanish, has a nice family (with a cheerleader wife and darling kids), is articulate and can handle the media, and is cute and likeable. He’s also a babe magnet.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  52. Rubio is bright, pleasant, and articulates conservatism in a cheery, positive, Hispanic, Reaganesque fashion.

    But he hasn’t been betrayed enough and he isn’t suspicious enough and doesn’t have the knives it’s gonna need to get the job done.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  53. More here on Wal-Mart. No, it doesn’t make any sense at all. That’s a lot of people suddenly out of work. Wal-mart already has a negative reputation with the important people who don’t rely on their low prices. No telling how the media will skewer them over this.

    Dana (86e864)

  54. maybe WalMart found out that something unsafe was used in the plumbing systems??

    seeRpea (d1cf05)

  55. As far as I can tell, SEK’s last comment was in July 2013. He promised to respond to a post I had made about George Zimmerman and shockingly never did.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  56. Someone explain to me what is impressive about Rubio. I don’t see it.

    Rubio is our side’s Obama, but infinitely more palatable. Young, inexperienced, great speech maker, ethnic, handsome, hip, etc. I am fine with him as long as he is shrewd enough to build a strong team around him (e.g., no Joe Biden or Kathleen Sibelieus or Janet Napoliatano).

    JVW (a1146f)

  57. I know Bush 41 and 43 play hardball but Jeb likes to say he’s different. Still, it’s early in the process to do negative stuff. Jeb must really be hurting from the loss of his Texas backers to Cruz and Perry and Paul, and from his Florida backers to Rubio. I figured he had problems when he told people to stop giving because he had enough money for now. Politicians never have enough money.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  58. He speaks Spanish, has a nice family (with a cheerleader wife and darling kids), is articulate and can handle the media, and is cute and likeable. He’s also a babe magnet.

    Has the bar ever been set so low?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  59. You see the National Review piece on Rubio? Cynical, sure, but probably accurate. We could do a lot worse (read: Hillary!).

    JVW (a1146f)

  60. Hi!

    Al Hirt, of course.

    I’m inclined to think it’s a D leaking op-research so that it looks like the Bushes are doing it.

    htom (4ca1fa)

  61. The Bush-Rubio split was inevitable with both of them in the running. It’s just that Bush made the first move.

    I don’t understand his appeal. He’s middle of the pack for me. The amnesty turn was a big red flag. He has a lovely family and seems a very committed father and husband. But every time I watch him speak, he seems a bit weak, or perhaps unsure of himself, or, like he could be easily swayed.

    Dana (86e864)

  62. The tin foil hat theories on the Walmart closings are booming, and frankly I’m wondering if they’re right.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  63. Jeb came out for Loretta the new AG, he comes out for Common Core; what does he have other than some Establishment backing and not much of that? Who wants to vote for him?

    luagha2 (1de9ec)

  64. Oops, referring to Rubio. I’m just not convinced.

    Dana (86e864)

  65. (all my other posts are in moderation, tried changing my name and using a different email.)

    luagha2 (1de9ec)

  66. luagha! (2)!!!

    htom!!!!

    Patterico (9c670f)

  67. I know Bush 41 and 43 play hardball but Jeb likes to say he’s different. Still, it’s early in the process to do negative stuff. Jeb must really be hurting from the loss of his Texas backers to Cruz and Perry and Paul, and from his Florida backers to Rubio.

    I’m the all-time worst political prognosticator, but I don’t see any path to the nomination for Jeb. He’s a good man — honest, smart, virtuous — like the rest of his family, but nobody outside the country club set wants a third Bush Presidency. And this year there are frankly a bunch of other top-tier candidates who bring everything that Jeb does minus the baggage that comes with the name.

    JVW (a1146f)

  68. Luagha,

    Just approved about six comments. No idea why they were in moderation. Sorry!

    Patterico (9c670f)

  69. I like Rubio and always has, because he does such a good job articulating the American Dream. He reaches people when he talks but I don’t see his path to the nomination. He’s not the Tea Party’s favorite or the Establishment’s. He’s not the first choice of evangelicals or social cons. But he has enough positives — he’s young, personable, articulate, good with the media, is Hispanic, and he’s from a battleground state where he’s reasonably popular — that most people could live with him on the ticket. That makes him the ideal VP, and I think that’s what he’s running for.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  70. How weird, JVW. We posted the same idea at the same time.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  71. Except I was talking about Rubio and you were talking about Jeb.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  72. luagha,

    Go back to your original comment info.

    I found the problem.

    Some troll used an email that used part of your email address. I deleted that entry from the moderation software and you should be fine now. Try it out. Again, my apologies.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  73. I was having this discussion with an old college friend…

    During the campaign, the job of the VP is to be an attack dog and to say the harsh things that the person trying to be President shouldn’t say because they are too harsh.

    After the campaign, the job of the VP changes pretty drastically. To nothing, really, but what the President gives him to look over and stand in on.

    Personally, what I would love to see is when the traditional media asks various Repubs to knock down other Repubs, say, “He would make an excellent Vice-President.” Never say anything negative.

    luagha2 (1de9ec)

  74. DRJ + JVW,

    Let’s say you’re both right and Rubio and Jeb have no path. (Seems questionable for Jeb but that’s conventional wisdom talking.)

    Who’s our likely candidate? Not your favorite but likely? Walker?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  75. @ JVW

    And this year there are frankly a bunch of other top-tier candidates who bring everything that Jeb does minus the baggage that comes with the name.


    Absolutely. He is almost irrelevant in the midst of the other candidates.

    Dana (86e864)

  76. Hey DRJ (and others), you’ve got me really thinking:

    Remember back in 2000 when a lot of Republicans were saying that it was a shame that it was George W. Bush rather than Jeb Bush that was running for President because Jeb (1) had compiled a more conservative record, (2) was a better public speaker, and (3) was a better administrator? Leaving aside how much of that was true, the idea was that the only reason is was George rather than Jeb was because Jeb has narrowly lost the 1994 Florida governor’s election by just a few votes (because of Democrat chicanery, naturally). How different might history have been?

    JVW (a1146f)

  77. Testing…

    luagha (1de9ec)

  78. I’m just going to go ahead and say this because we’re all friends here and nobody will bite my head off — right?

    Walker . . . just looks dumb. In every picture I see of him, he looks dumb. Honestly. I’m not saying he is. He just looks that way. He looks dumb.

    Am I the only one who thinks this?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  79. JVW,

    I hope most people don’t want a third Bush but I’m not convinced that’s true. It’s a brand name and some people want that in products and in politics.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  80. How weird, JVW. We posted the same idea at the same time.

    Naw, we’re just the two smartest here.

    (everyone else would use a smiley emoticon here, but I don’t roll that way)

    JVW (a1146f)

  81. To prove my point, I am going to go to Google Images (I swear I have not looked yet) and upload and embed the first five images I see.

    If he doesn’t look dumb in at least three, I will admit I’m wrong.

    I’m off . . . talk amongst yourselves.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  82. I wouldn’t say he looks dumb. I think he looks like a Boy Scout. And I think he *is* a Boy Scout.

    Dana (86e864)

  83. But I think he’s a Boy Scout in that he walks the straight and narrow, is wholly committed to his principles and is fearless in standing up for them.

    Dana (86e864)

  84. Walker . . . just looks dumb. In every picture I see of him, he looks dumb. Honestly. I’m not saying he is. He just looks that way. He looks dumb.

    Oh yeah? Oh yeah? Well Ted Cruz looks. . . .

    Nah, just kidding.

    Both Cruz and Walker are younger than you and I, Patterico, so maybe that’s what is bothering you (for Walker at least; Cruz has that prenatural old man look — kidding, kidding!).

    JVW (a1146f)

  85. Walker is white bread. Small town. But we know he will fight for us because he has.
    Cruz is Harvard, city, lawyer. You would think that that would preclude the usual ‘He’s mentally deficient’ attack that the press will try, but it won’t. They’ll call any Republican stupid. He’s credentialed and citified. Sadly, it’s a weakness with the flyover states, though it might be what we need.

    It has long been said: There are two working presidential campaigns: ‘back to basics’ and ‘a brand new day’.

    Obama used ‘a brand new day’ aka hope and change, while he used the race card to deflect criticism and the willing press corps to conceal his background.

    Most of the current Republicans are using ‘back to basics’ because that’s what we need right now.

    Hillary is using ‘I’ll fight for you!’ and ‘I’m a woman!’ The first of these makes her sound like a late night lawyer commercial and the second could be a tool in a campaign, but not a campaign in itself.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  86. OK. I’m gonna say I win, but it’s not obvious. Maybe like 2 1/2.

    Screen Shot 2015-04-18 at 10.25.06 PM

    Screen Shot 2015-04-18 at 10.25.17 PM

    Screen Shot 2015-04-18 at 10.25.27 PM

    Screen Shot 2015-04-18 at 10.25.36 PM

    Screen Shot 2015-04-18 at 10.25.46 PM

    Patterico (9c670f)

  87. I think Walker is the favorite now, but I expect that to change as the primaries go forward. Walker may end up winning but there is so much that can affect who wins and who loses, especially in a race like this. Normally the race is about who has money but this time I think it will be about who does the best with the primary voters. That suggests to me two factors will matter — who has the best political strategy and which candidate performs the best.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  88. To me that’s:

    1) dumb
    2) not too dumb
    3) dumb
    4) not too dumb, and
    5) kinda dumb.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  89. That first picture sums up the way I am used to seeing him. And in that picture I say he looks dumb.

    OK, I will now leave this topic.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  90. In those pics, He looks like an awkward nice guy to me.

    Dana (86e864)

  91. But I think he’s a Boy Scout in that he walks the straight and narrow, is wholly committed to his principles and is fearless in standing up for them.

    Ehhh, he’s a politician and there is at least some scuttlebutt that he plays fast and loose by the rules (I’m not saying that I buy into the whole Democrat corruption allegations). I don’t care if he is a combination of Abraham Lincoln and George Washington, I just care that he seems to understand how to take the fight to powerful interests and how to win elections in bluish/purplish states.

    JVW (a1146f)

  92. No one is mentioning Rand Paul.

    Dana (86e864)

  93. I hadn’t heard that about him, JVW.

    Dana (86e864)

  94. JVW,

    Re: Jeb vs George W, the media likes to say it but I don’t think those factors mattered at all. George W has always been the one who is driven. Jeb wasn’t. I wonder if Jeb really wants to do this or if he feels like this is his destiny.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  95. Both Cruz and Walker are younger than you and I, Patterico, so maybe that’s what is bothering you (for Walker at least; Cruz has that prenatural old man look — kidding, kidding!).

    I’m not defending Cruz’s looks. There is some kind of odd baldness issue going on there, and he’s clearly not classically handsome. This is a superficial comment I had about Walker and Cruz does not stack up favorably. But I know Cruz is smart as a whip, and it’s just something that occurred to me, and . . . oh, never mind.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  96. While I would crawl through broken glass to vote for Rand Paul in the general election, I think he is too easy to tar as a crazy and paint with the same brush they paint his Dad with and that’s too dangerous. I find it unlikely he’ll get traction. I think he can still do many great and useful things from where he is.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  97. Uh, P, try your little test with Ted Cruz and let me know what you think.

    JVW (a1146f)

  98. No one is mentioning Rand Paul.

    I like Rand Paul. I like Cruz. I like Walker. I like Perry. Rubio . . . he’s there. Maybe he’s OK, I don’t know.

    But I like a lot of these people.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  99. Uh, P, try your little test with Ted Cruz and let me know what you think.

    I said. He’s not a looker.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  100. In his first five Cruz images, two of them have that weird fill out the lower part of your mouth with air frustration thing that Obama does all the time.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  101. Ted Cruz has a good radio voice and recorded voice. All that debate training. He’s great for listening to in the car.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  102. Jindal has appearance issues, too, and appearance matters in politics. But Hillary isn’t that pretty so it won’t be like JFK vs Nixon or even Obama vs anyone, where one candidate out-pretties the other. I think this election is going to be about who connects with voters and who doesn’t mess up.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  103. I’m concerned that Republicans nominate a single term Senator. After all, the last one elected didn’t turn out too well. I think I’d rather see someone with some sort of executive experience. Bush, Walker, Christie all meet those criteria. Are they the best choices? I don’t know. All have strengths and weaknesses. They aren’t perfect. But then no one is. Whoever is nominated eventually, we all need to unite behind them. This country can’t survive another Democrat in the White House after the last mistake. Nobody sits out this election in a fit of pique because their preferred candidate didn’t get selected. So before we tear our potential candidates apart, let’s keep our eye on the big picture.

    Bill M (906260)

  104. Scott Walker probably looks like a Boy Scout because he was one; an Eagle Scout. Makes me curious as to how many other national politicians were.

    Spice says it’s bedtime here in Minnesota, and while I like you all … good night!

    htom (4ca1fa)

  105. Perry had the look that can win elections. Too bad he messed up.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  106. While I would crawl through broken glass to vote for Rand Paul in the general election, I think he is too easy to tar as a crazy and paint with the same brush they paint his Dad with and that’s too dangerous. I find it unlikely he’ll get traction. I think he can still do many great and useful things from where he is.

    I think maybe it’s time someone stood up for Ron Paul around here. He’s nowhere near as crazy as he has been portrayed — and I include the Patterico of three years ago in that denunciation. He’s 90% on the money and 10% a little questionable. I’d take him today over almost any of the candidates and I’m ashamed I treated him the way I did when he was running.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  107. Spice says it’s bedtime here in Minnesota, and while I like you all … good night!

    Night, htom! Nice to see you!

    Patterico (9c670f)

  108. I’d need a double latte before I got out to the polls for Christie. His sucking up to Obama after the Hurricane and his treatment of firearms rights is a killer for me. I hope he doesn’t get in the race at all, but just gives a killer speech like we know he can.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  109. People even criticize Paul for his curly hair. It must be awful to be in politics unless you’re Obama and the only people you see adore you.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  110. I’m concerned that Republicans nominate a single term Senator. After all, the last one elected didn’t turn out too well. I think I’d rather see someone with some sort of executive experience. Bush, Walker, Christie all meet those criteria. Are they the best choices? I don’t know. All have strengths and weaknesses. They aren’t perfect. But then no one is. Whoever is nominated eventually, we all need to unite behind them. This country can’t survive another Democrat in the White House after the last mistake. Nobody sits out this election in a fit of pique because their preferred candidate didn’t get selected. So before we tear our potential candidates apart, let’s keep our eye on the big picture.

    It’s weird. Collectively, our votes matter. Individually, they mean nothing. I find that hard to wrestle with. I have pulled the level for the Republican in every election save my first, when I voted for Perot because of the deficit. But I have never once been excited about it. Give me Cruz this time and I will pull it (OK, ink it) with gusto.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  111. In his first five Cruz images, two of them have that weird fill out the lower part of your mouth with air frustration thing that Obama does all the time.

    No, to me they look like that face you make when you have just made a great point and you can’t conceive of anybody coming up with an adequate rejoinder.

    I note too that it appears to be a left-wing meme to compare Cruz to Joe McCarthy, and they do unfortunately have similarly shaped heads and proportional faces.

    JVW (a1146f)

  112. I hate to be overly defensive about the press, but well. They are a known evil. They have to be punished for their actions in some useful manner. I agree that Ron Paul is 90% great and 10% questionable and that I would be happy to vote for him.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  113. It’s no joke; if the readers of the this blog ran the nation or even had the only votes, the country would be way better off.

    Way better.

    No joke.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  114. Perry had the look that can win elections. Too bad he messed up.

    DRJ (e80d46) — 4/18/2015 @ 10:38 pm

    I wholeheartedly agree. He has the looks and masculinity and presence. What do you think of his chances this time around (if he decides to run)?

    Dana (86e864)

  115. Ron Paul is a dear man and a principled politician, but unfortunately his foreign policy ideas are suspect. That’s fine in a Congressman, but not so much in a President. Unfortunately his son seems too much like him, but Rand Paul makes an excellent Senator.

    I know how people feel when they say Cruz should be a Senator, too, or a Supreme Court Justice. They like him but not enough to trust him to be President, which is how I feel about Rand Paul. So I respect those opinions but I disagree, because Cruz is the candidate who best understands the American system, Constitution and rule of law and is willing to govern based on those principles.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  116. Perry had the look that can win elections. Too bad he messed up.

    I say this in the full flower of heterosexuality: Perry strikes me as quite a handsome man. I think that matters in a general election, but I won’t guess how much.

    JVW (a1146f)

  117. No, to me they look like that face you make when you have just made a great point and you can’t conceive of anybody coming up with an adequate rejoinder.

    Maybe, I was doing my description from memory, and now that I go back and look I don’t see the air, just the funny mouth shape.

    Let’s face it: Cruz is generally the smartest person in the room.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  118. It must be awful to be in politics unless you’re Obama and the only people you see adore you.

    Isn’t that why Obama has turned into such a snively little bitch (and I do apologize for the language, but I couldn’t think of a better description): since becoming President, for the first time in his entire life he isn’t insulated from people who actually have ideas opposed to his own, and who don’t fall at his feet in supplication.

    JVW (a1146f)

  119. Perry has a desire to run and significant funding from Texas donors, so I think he will run. I don’t think he can win because I don’t think he is smart enough to handle the debates or to put together a good campaign strategy. I’m not saying he isn’t smart but it takes a special kind of political savvy to successfully run for President, and I’m not sure he has it.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  120. Ron Paul is a dear man and a principled politician, but unfortunately his foreign policy ideas are suspect.

    I know. The thing is, and I know this causes you and I to diverge, which is rare, but I sympathize with an awful lot of what he has to say.

    It’s just that, ultimately, I think he’s too naive.

    But I think almost everyone else is too bloodthirsty.

    Honestly, I can tolerate Cruz because a) he’s smart and b) while he talks very tough, often that is necessary to avoid actual bloodshed. Reagan talked way tougher than Bush, but how many soldiers died under each President? Sometimes other nations need to fear you so that you don’t have to actually go around starting wars everywhere.

    I hate war. Hate it. I wish more conservatives expressed that sentiment as clearly. I think it’s a conservative sentiment. At least it used to be.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  121. Let’s face it: Cruz is generally the smartest person in the room.

    Just tossing this out there: the other side said the same about old-what’s-his-name. Seriously, though, I think Cruz could run circles around Obama in a debate on Constitutional law, or, really, most anything.

    JVW (a1146f)

  122. I say this in the full flower of heterosexuality: Perry strikes me as quite a handsome man. I think that matters in a general election, but I won’t guess how much.

    JVW (a1146f) — 4/18/2015 @ 10:43 pm

    It’s okay, JVW, this is a safe zone. No judgement, Would you like a blanket?

    Dana (86e864)

  123. Part of intelligence is knowing when you don’t know about something.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  124. Two things I think I have learned in the last couple of years:

    * Economics is far more important to freedom than people generally recognize.

    * Almost everyone in politics is too tolerant of government interference in the economy.

    Justin Amash totally gets it. Ted Cruz does too, I think. And while we don’t hear it from him enough, Rand Paul has spent enough time around his dad that he gets it too.

    I can’t even say Walker doesn’t. I think maybe he does.

    So I’m pretty happy with this field.

    Romney didn’t have a clue on this front, and I am not convinced Rubio does either.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  125. It’s okay, JVW, this is a safe zone. No judgement, Would you like a blanket?

    He’ll be in his bunk.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  126. It’s okay, JVW, this is a safe zone. No judgement, Would you like a blanket?

    I’m going to retire to a safe space where I can doing some coloring in coloring books.

    JVW (a1146f)

  127. Just tossing this out there: the other side said the same about old-what’s-his-name. Seriously, though, I think Cruz could run circles around Obama in a debate on Constitutional law, or, really, most anything.

    Obama is a smug empty suit. Cruz would destroy him in a debate. But our chuckle-headed electorate would probably not realize that he had.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  128. Sometimes other nations need to fear you so that you don’t have to actually go around starting wars everywhere.

    This is precisely why it upsets me to see how much Obama has degraded our military might before the world. The mere threat of a strong and invincible US military presence before the world keeps others in line and at held at bay. Remove that and we become vulnerable.

    Dana (86e864)

  129. And that’s it for me. Good night all, do enjoy, and thanks for all the content over the years. 🙂
    I’m still putting the last bits of the killer cold-flu that’s been going around to bed.

    luagha (1de9ec)

  130. luagha,

    Great to see you. Feel better. I have a lingering cough myself.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  131. I doubt we disagree as much as we have different reactions to the threat of war. Maybe it’s because of our genders or maybe it’s because of other factors, such as where we live. I think geography matters more than we realize. It’s too complex to get into here but I think there’s a reason most of our troops come from rural areas and states like Texas, and it can’t be explained solely by saying those folks are more patriotic.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  132. This is precisely why it upsets me to see how much Obama has degraded our military might before the world. The mere threat of a strong and invincible US military presence before the world keeps others in line and at held at bay. Remove that and we become vulnerable.

    Is our might that degraded? Again, I think I will find few here who agree with me, but I think the Pentagon’s budget is way overinflated. We could do just fine with far less.

    What Obama has done is weaken our image. I’m torn on that. We have done a lot of aggressive and anti-democratic things over the years. I understand why some countries hate us. Iran. Guatemala. And so forth.

    I think Ted Cruz gets it, though. I really do. I hope so.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  133. OK, two thought about a hotly-contested GOP primary:

    (1) GOOD!
    The GOP has a robust and vigorous debate where the party figures out what the unifying principles are. The candidate who emerges is practiced in dealing with the media, debating, and making a coherent message to voters who might not share the party’s vision. Our candidate trounces a lazy, content, and unlikable Hillary! in the general election.

    (2) BAD!
    The GOP has a robust and contentious debate and the party is divided by factions (Constitutionalists, social conservatives, business interests, etc.). Hillary! runs unopposed and thus gets to husband (what an ironic term!) her money and bury the GOP with negative ads in a spending orgy. That, combined with the cultural left’s desire for the first female President, builds an impenetrable firewall in the key states and propels her to victory.

    JVW (a1146f)

  134. re Walker photos – i think the ‘dumb’ look comes from the eyes not being as aligned as most peoples eyes are.

    re WalMart – hard to understand what is going on. ‘plumbing’ seems a cover story, an anti-Union move seems incorrect as they are giving all employees 2 months salaries and there are other expenses they will need to cover. Could a gov’t agency really be using those stores for the agencies own purposes?
    are they keeping TSA people there to train and then bombard we the people with?

    seeRpea (d1cf05)

  135. Obama is a smug empty suit. Cruz would destroy him in a debate. But our chuckle-headed electorate would probably not realize that he had.

    That’s just it: you never win when the other side gets to keep score.

    JVW (a1146f)

  136. Remember that Republicans need to defeat the Democrat candidate and the MSM. They will be on the Democrat’s side, regardless of whom Democrats nominate. The Republican candidate must be able to stand up against both. I don’t think Rand will be able to survive that because they’ll go after him because of his father. Jeb will have similar problems due to George W. Christie enjoys poking them and making them look bad. They will be out for revenge. It’s going to be an interesting year and a half.

    Bill M (906260)

  137. I doubt we disagree as much as we have different reactions to the threat of war. Maybe it’s because of our genders or maybe it’s because of other factors, such as where we live. I think geography matters more than we realize. It’s too complex to get into here but I think there’s a reason most of our troops come from rural areas and states like Texas, and it can’t be explained solely by saying those folks are more patriotic.

    I know this: you and I agree that the only clear justification for government is to protect its citizens.

    We can disagree, perhaps, on the particular steps that need to happen for us to be protected. But I don’t sign onto the Ron Paul “let the world do whatever” plan and I don’t subscribe to the McCain/Graham “shoot down gyrocopters and abolish the First Amendment at the drop of a hat” approach either. Ted Cruz says he is triangulating between those positions and I think some amount of triangulation is appropriate. I might fall a bit more on the peaceful side than Cruz does, but I’m good with his general approach.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  138. There have been budget cuts made that have impacted the military. And those are happening when external threats are increasing. You mention “might”. Is that measured in numbers or “presence”?

    Dana (86e864)

  139. Setting aside funding issues, I think Obama has severely undermined the military, not only in who he has chosen to promote but also in who he has run off. Many high-level officers have been demoted, forced into retirement, investigated and charged with crimes, or simply benched. In addition, morale in the ranks is very low. And then there’s recruitment and retention. It’s a mess.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  140. I know this: you and I agree that the only clear justification for government is to protect its citizens.

    I’m not totally against building interstate highways. But we could probably say that’s part of national defense if we stretch the term.

    JVW (a1146f)

  141. I don’t want to say a U.S. with Ted Cruz as President would be a Shangri-La.

    But something in me says that a U.S. with Ted Cruz as President would be a Shangri-La.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  142. The wife and i are going to see john hiatt and lyle lovett at the akron civic theatre april 26. it’s the 1st concert we’ve seen in ages. can’t wait.

    scott (c53a5d)

  143. re Walker photos – i think the ‘dumb’ look comes from the eyes not being as aligned as most peoples eyes are.

    From an aesthetic point, facial symmetry equals attractiveness. That is not Walker. But who wants a handsome president anyway? Why the distraction from substance – because it would be.

    Dana (86e864)

  144. In addition, morale in the ranks is very low.

    I don’t understand. Your link says they have spent $287 million to make the troops more optimistic.

    If it is not working, the only explanation I can see is that we have not spent enough money.

    Someone please hand me an eyes-rolling emoji?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  145. re Reagan , show of strength, war – remember the joke about bombing the USSR in 5 minutes? it was no mistake that the microphone captured it. the soviets really were worried that Reagan would do proactive, offensive military operations. The Soviets took the military space program seriously, even though the MSM didn’t , and spent a lot of resources to counter it.

    seeRpea (d1cf05)

  146. I don’t want to say a U.S. with Ted Cruz as President would be a Shangri-La.

    Did someone say Shangri-La?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK1-u0yHNSU

    JVW (a1146f)

  147. Then I’m not sure where we disagree because I’m not demonizing the Pauls’ foreign policy views. I also think it’s naïve to be isolationists, especially now. We do agree that the government’s primary function is national security and we also agree that Cruz understands that, but I don’t think anyone (even the candidate) can know what they would do in response to specific events. That’s why principles matter in a President. In a crisis, he or she will rely on their core beliefs to respond. I trust Cruz’s core beliefs.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  148. OK, switching topics:

    (Kind of)

    Do we need to risk American soldiers’ lives because some barbarians like to make videos where they cut off random people’s heads?

    Is there something else going on here?

    I think we need to question this more.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  149. You’re being sarcastic, right? You know I’m terrible at spotting that, but morale is low because of Obama’s poor decisions. He’s spent too much time social-engineering the military and not enough time on leadership, Rules of Engagement, making good equipment choices (the Warthog decision, for example), etc.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  150. Let’s say we hate Syria and we hate ISIS.

    Any problem with letting them kill each other?

    Patterico (9c670f)

  151. As an old military guy (20 yrs – USAF), it’s not always the amount of money. Don’t underestimate the impact of morale, which has been adversely affected by the actions of the current administration. Morale in any organization is one of the strongest legs supporting effectiveness. It’s easy to loose and difficult to rebuild. We are facing a reduction is strength due to lowered morale; and our enemies know it.

    Bill M (906260)

  152. I think of beheadings as terrorists’ propaganda, and stopping the enemy from propagandizing is important.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  153. You’re being sarcastic, right? You know I’m terrible at spotting that,

    On the morale issue? Yes, of course. Spending money to improve morale? Laughable.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  154. As an old military guy (20 yrs – USAF), it’s not always the amount of money. Don’t underestimate the impact of morale, which has been adversely affected by the actions of the current administration. Morale in any organization is one of the strongest legs supporting effectiveness. It’s easy to loose and difficult to rebuild. We are facing a reduction is strength due to lowered morale; and our enemies know it.

    I can imagine a Ron Paul style message that says: we are cutting the military budget like crazy. We don’t need huge bases in Germany and Saudi Arabia etc. and I will only send you off to war if the country really needs it. That said, you are the most important part of our government, and I will never forget that and I will never trivialize your function.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  155. Do we need to risk American soldiers’ lives because some barbarians like to make videos where they cut off random people’s heads?

    Well, I think we need to look at two options:

    (1) We say “Hey, this is none of our concern, but neither is economic development, or clean water, or family planning, or AIDS prevention, or any of that stuff. Good luck, rest of the world, we wish you the best. Oh, and by the way, we aren’t taking any more of your refugees.”

    (2) We say “You exist outside the boundaries of established world norms, and those norms are so important that they justify our involvement.”

    Of course, there are shades of grey in there, but those seem to be the two bookends. What I don’t like is Obama’s attitude of, “Well, sometimes we care, sometimes we don’t; sometimes we’ll draw lines in the sand without meaning them; sometimes we’ll send a few drones; but always we’ll worry about my approval ratings.”

    JVW (a1146f)

  156. I think of beheadings as terrorists’ propaganda, and stopping the enemy from propagandizing is important.

    Lot of beheadings in Mexico. We don’t invade there. Propaganda is one thing, but we can’t let other people dictate our actions.

    When we were attacked on 9/11, going to Afghanistan was the right thing to do. As I recall, Ron Paul voted for that! It was an act of war.

    A lot of the stuff we did since, I think, was a mistake.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  157. seeRpea,

    All but one of the stores is in a right-to-work state so I don’t think it’s about a labor problem. However, the 6 month closing period does overlap with the government’s Operation Jade Helm.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  158. We invade Mexico daily down here in Texas, and they invade us. It is a war down here already.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  159. (1) We say “Hey, this is none of our concern, but neither is economic development, or clean water, or family planning, or AIDS prevention, or any of that stuff. Good luck, rest of the world, we wish you the best. Oh, and by the way, we aren’t taking any more of our refugees.”

    (2) We say “You exist outside the boundaries of established world norms, and those norms are so important that they justify our involvement.”

    Of course, there are shades of grey in there, but those seem to be the two bookends. What I don’t like is Obama’s attitude of, “Well, sometimes we care, sometimes we don’t; sometimes we’ll draw lines in the sand without meaning them; sometimes we’ll send a few drones; but always we’ll worry about my approval ratings.”

    I’m a #1 guy. But I believe in private charity and in free trade, which is the best thing that could happen to any country in trouble.

    Foreign aid typically props up crap regimes. Free trade is their best hope, honestly.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  160. We invade Mexico daily down here in Texas, and they invade us. It is a war down here already.

    Please elaborate. Surely not in the way we are fighting ISIS.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  161. JVW,

    Are you #1 or #2?

    Dana (86e864)

  162. I don’t know if Walker looks dumb, but he appears lost to me.

    mg (31009b)

  163. I’m a #1 guy. But I believe in private charity and in free trade, which is the best thing that could happen to any country in trouble.

    So many of us are #1 guys now. I was a #2 guy probably 15 (or even 10) years ago, but now I am so jaded that if there were a massive earthquake in Indonesia or Pakistan or Somalia or lots of other incubators of Islamofascism, I wouldn’t give a tinker’s dam and wouldn’t bother to send them a nickel, let along a warship or army division.

    JVW (a1146f)

  164. I’m not a foreign policy expert but I think we need to pick and choose our battles, so I wouldn’t draw a red line in Syria unless I was willing to go fight there and I’m not. But there are many things I would do to protect American interests around the world, and I don’t think it’s prudent to take an isolationist view about everything — if only because sometimes it saves lives and money to take small actions now instead of large actions later.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  165. Are you #1 or #2?

    Dana, I’m trying so hard to hold on to some #2 ideals. But it’s hard.

    JVW (a1146f)

  166. Walmart 5
    unions 0

    mg (31009b)

  167. So many of us are #1 guys now. I was a #2 guy probably 15 (or even 10) years ago, but now I am so jaded that if there were a massive earthquake in Indonesia or Pakistan or Somalia or lots of other incubators of Islamofascism, I wouldn’t give a tinker’s dam and wouldn’t bother to send them a nickel, let along a warship or army division.

    Oh, I think private charity should absolutely help other countries if they are hit with a natural disaster.

    I just want government out of it.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  168. I get it. I’m torn. I lean more toward #1, but #2 has an emotional element in it that is hard to ignore, especially, to narrow it down, in light of ISIS and its barbarity.

    Dana (86e864)

  169. It’s not a matter of not caring. I just want government out of everything unless it is absolutely critical.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  170. I wouldn’t draw a red line in Syria unless I was willing to go fight there and I’m not.

    Yeah, but that’s just Obama being so unequal to his position and such an unserious poseur, not any real thought-out ideological strategy on his part. I don’ think Obama is so awful that he actually sabotaged us with his Syria dithering; he just got caught saying what he thought polled well without being willing to back it up. He’s not too different from Bill Clinton in that regard.

    JVW (a1146f)

  171. I get it. I’m torn. I lean more toward #1, but #2 has an emotional element in it that is hard to ignore, especially, to narrow it down, in light of ISIS and its barbarity.

    I know, but there are always barbarians, everywhere. Does that mean young American men have to die? I don’t think it does.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  172. What about maintaining bases around the world?

    Dana (86e864)

  173. #165 I don’t think it’s prudent to take an isolationist view about everything — if only because sometimes it saves lives and money to take small actions now instead of large actions later.

    Exactly DRJ. For the same reason, those bases overseas are part and parcel of being able to respond when necessary. It’s easy to withdraw too far and hard to respond when you don’t have the support network in place to do so.

    Bill M (906260)

  174. It’s not a matter of not caring. I just want government out of everything unless it is absolutely critical.

    Oh no, I agree. Government should never “care” (meaning: be willing to cough up huge sums of money with respect to) about the living conditions in other parts of the world; private citizens should. I wouldn’t give money to a Somalian Red Cross relief effort, but I would give one to a Christian Church relief effort earmarked for Somalia. The difference? I don’t want one cent of my donation to get diverted to some Shariah-loving imam who is training true belivers for a suicide attack on the west.

    JVW (a1146f)

  175. OK, I think I will turn in. Please don’t take that as a signal that you must, although it often seems to work out that way with these threads. It’s an innate response when the host says he is going to bed that everyone else automatically says they must as well. But you’re not in my house. This place will continue running even when I sleep.

    I say this, but I think the social convention is too ingrained. We’ll see.

    Patterico (9c670f)

  176. Good night Pat.

    Bill M (906260)


  177. I know, but there are always barbarians, everywhere. Does that mean young American men have to die? I don’t think it does.

    Patterico (9c670f) — 4/18/2015 @ 11:26 pm

    I understand there will always be evil in this world and that innocent people died because of it. And that is difficult, however, I don’t think the question of whether we should get involved should be based on an emotional response. That’s why I want our foreign policy decides to be able to see the bigger picture and strategies necessary to make sound decisions made in the best interest of our country.

    Dana (86e864)

  178. There’s been a rolling gun battle in several Mexican border cities for almost 2 weeks, and the violence is spilling across the border. It is particularly violent right now but the cross-border problems are not uncommon.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  179. Good night Pat.

    Yeah, I’m calling it a night too. This was fun.

    JVW (a1146f)

  180. JVW is proving you right, Patterico.

    Good night.

    Dana (86e864)

  181. 179- God Bless Texas

    mg (31009b)

  182. This was fun, wasn’t it? Night all.

    Bill M (906260)

  183. Good night all, it was fun.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  184. Again, I think I will find few here who agree with me, but I think the Pentagon’s budget is way overinflated. We could do just fine with far less.

    I totally agree with you, and I also wouldn’t mind a president who is a principled, savvy, wary isolationist. So when I hear Republicans being a bit too aggressive and enthusiastic about using the US military in foreign interventions, I feel both exasperated and annoyed.

    Mark (6c31df)

  185. Jindal has appearance issues, too, and appearance matters in politics.

    Which is why Scott Walker’s face (ie, dorky or dumb, per Patterico) does have some relevance, while Ted Cruz’s face with its large hook nose doesn’t exactly make Cruz the most photogenic politician out there.

    The superficial aspects of Republicans in general are silly to scrutinize, but the electorate is so full of squish-squish voters, who tend to give more leeway to even ragged, wrinkly Democrats/liberals (eg, Hillary!), that nothing can be taken for granted or ignored.

    Mark (6c31df)

  186. Hillary!’s wealth
    Ted Cruz’s intellect
    Marco Rubio’s youth and good looks
    Al Hirt’s trumpet playing ability
    Rand Paul’s collection of fine bourbons
    Elizabeth Warren’s media protection,

    which would you choose?

    Well, Ted is smarter than me, but not ALL that much, never cared to play the trumpet, don’t care what the media writes about me, and stopped drinking a lifetime ago. So…

    Youth and good looks vs nine-figure money. I’d take Hillary’s money, I think, because of the added bonus that she wouldn’t have it anymore.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  187. open thread – love this take.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vifUaZQL8pc

    mg (31009b)

  188. I’m not sure we’re that far apart on national security issues. For instance, I’m sure we agree America must defend itself in the event of an attack. I also agree with the Bush Doctrine that America doesn’t have to wait to be attacked if the threat is immediate. Perhaps where we disagree is I think the threat is immediate and you may not.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  189. Rand Paul is using stronger words against the GOP hawks, suggesting things will be worse under them than they are under Obama, yet supports military action against ISIS:

    “There’s a group of folks in our party who would have troops in six countries right now — maybe more,” the Kentucky senator told hundreds of activists at a GOP cattle call that has drawn every major presidential aspirant. “This is something, if you watch closely, that will separate me from many other Republicans. The other Republicans will criticize Hillary Clinton and the president for their foreign policy, but they would have done the same thing – just 10 times over!”

    “Every time we’ve toppled a secular dictator, a secular strongman, we’ve gotten chaos and the rise of radical Islam,” he said. “We have to decide when getting involved is good and when it’s not so good. There’s a group of folks in our party who think it’s always good … There’s people in our party who supported giving arms to [Muammar] Gaddafi before they supported giving arms to the ‘freedom fighters,’ who turned out to be al Qaeda. I’m not saying don’t be involved in the world. I’m not saying don’t defend our interests. But think about it. As a physician, we’re taught: first, do no harm.”

    “Yes, ISIS is a threat. But I would also put ISIS into the context of things,” Paul explained. “If we don’t do this, we’re never going to learn. How did ISIS grow stronger? Well, we put 600 tons worth of weapons into the Syrian civil war. You’ve got Assad on one side. You’ve got two million Christians living under Assad. And then you have the Islamic rebels. All the weapons we gave to the Islamic rebels … a lot of them wound up in the hands of ISIS.”

    “There’s nobody good in that civil war,” he said. “There’s not one Islamic rebel group that would recognize Israel … The next time you come across somebody who is either from Syria or is a Syrian Christian or related to one, you ask them, ‘Which would you pick: ISIS or Assad?’ No question, they’d pick Assad because he’s tolerated Christians to a certain extent. He’s not a great guy – he’s a tyrant – but compare that to ISIS.”

    “But now we do have to do something,” he concluded, “so I support military action against ISIS.”

    Dana (86e864)

  190. Rand Paul is trying to thread the needle on foreign policy, especially military intervention. I don’t think he can do it.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  191. Since this is an open thread, I wanted to discuss the conclusion of “Justified”, but I haven’t seen JD around to commiserate with. Suffice it to say, this is a fairly decent overview of one unique show’s wrap-up (based on Elmore Leonard’s classic short-story “Fire in the Hole”).

    I’m still in mourning.

    Dana (86e864)

  192. ISIS is not the product of an interventionist US. It’s the product of a half-assed interventionist US. Or, in Obama’s case, quarter-assed. He aspires to half-assed.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  193. My husband loved that show and I watched some of it. I like the fact they actually wrapped up the storylines at the end. Jumping forward 4 years let us actually know what happened to the characters. But I have some questions: Was that Boon’s hat Raylan was wearing at the end? Do you think Boyd believed Raylan that Ava died?

    DRJ (e80d46)

  194. I agree, Kevin M. It’s not as if the Middle East was a calm, reasonable place before Bush invaded Iraq. The worst people can say about Bush is that he did in Iraq what Obama did in Libya — overthrew a dictator — but it was Obama who left Libya to the wolves and Obama who let Iraq go, too.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  195. Obama wants radical Muslims to be able to govern themselves, but they can’t. It’s ironic since Obama himself is largely secular. If only he would embrace the secular Middle Eastern leaders and nations, such as Egypt and Jordan. Those are the places to go if you want peace for Israel and the rest of the Middle East.

    DRJ (e80d46)

  196. ISIS is failmerica’s gift to the whirl not just Obama’s

    elections, they have consequences

    happyfeet (831175)

  197. happyfeet,

    I didn’t realize you shared the liberal elite view that America is at fault for what goes wrong in the world. Did you learn this in school or somewhere else?

    DRJ (e80d46)

  198. #196 well said, DRJ. Over the course of the next few months, we may see even more disastrous results from Obama’s feckless incompetence and inaction.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  199. 193- In mourning Dana
    My wife and I just finished watching all six seasons in three months. Great show.
    A few spinoffs could be made. Tim chasing Duffy I read was a possibility. Some stellar character actors throughout all six seasons.

    mg (31009b)

  200. My husband loved that show and I watched some of it. I like the fact they actually wrapped up the storylines at the end. Jumping forward 4 years let us actually know what happened to the characters. But I have some questions: Was that Boon’s hat Raylan was wearing at the end? Do you think Boyd believed Raylan that Ava died?

    DRJ, It was Boon’s hat. Yes, I think Boyd believed Raylan, hence his tears. However, given how cunning and smart Boyd is, I think that after his emotions subsided and he started to think about it more, he would smell a preemptive strike.

    I thought the closing lines between Boyd and Raylan hit the perfect tone of melancholy, poignancy and honesty. The viewer was left with a warm glow, not unlike the kind you feel after a sip or two of good whiskey.

    Dana (86e864)

  201. i’m gonna make this it’s a simple lil soup Mr. newrouter linked the other day

    that is what i am going to do

    happyfeet (831175)

  202. mg,

    I agree there were some excellent characters developed. I particularly loved Tim and his quiet observance of all going on around him, and when he spoke, he was wry, smart and always spot-on. I would like to see more of him. It was a great ensemble cast, and although the background characters were necessarily heard from a lot, they certainly had a presence – amazing how developed they were and yet weren’t heard from all that often. Excellent writing and acting.

    Dana (86e864)

  203. Obama wants radical Muslims to be able to govern themselves, but they can’t.

    For Obama to acknowledge this would be tantamount to crushing all the hopes and dreams he has for the ME. It is impossible for the man to admit what we all see and know. He has far too much of the personal invested in this and far too little of the nation’s security.

    Dana (86e864)

  204. I fall toward the side of bookend #2. Free trade is not possible on a global scale if we allow piratical entities to operate at all the maritime choke points. Nor is it possible if we allow terrorists to prey on civilian (commercial or private) transport. And if we prove to be weak and ineffectual as a country, our trade activities will be held hostage by any number of strong men.

    Britain’s colonialism needs to be reevaluated in light of what we now can see might have replaced it. The tribalism and slaughter unleased by Obola may well turn out to be the future for a substantial portion of humanity (all survivors being sworn shia or sunni, depending.) This isn’t to say the British model is the right one, but it did provide order based on laws that could be understood and complied with. We also know that “well meaning” aid is a disaster to the recipient. Communities that could marginally feed themselves were neutered by gifts of food, and this struck at the heart of what those communities needed to develop … an ability to be productive.

    During the 19th Century, particularly after the Civil War, our Navy was quite active suppressing piracy in Asia (Korea and Indonesia were both visited by warships that killed tens of thousands of soldiers and blew up things like capitols in response to attacks on commercial vessels.) But modern commerce requires more than reprisals. Banks have to be confident that they can conduct business, and this means that their agents have to be protected. Controlling our borders is also something that is essential if we intend to conduct business in a meaningful way. American laws must be sensible, simple, and enforced. Our descent into international agreements like Basel I,II and III, are crazy. By seeking to protect all us helpless investors, they create an opaque monstrosity that only results in making us more helpless.

    Economic strength is complemented by military strength and vice versa. Our march to some weird feminist/gay Orwellian utopia is being watched by the rest of the world with great interest and anticipation. Many are just waiting for the day when they can feed on our carcass.

    bobathome (ef0d3a)

  205. that Daredevil show finally got sort of engaging on episiode 5

    the soup is a win – i spicered it up with cayenne and used that odem consommé stuff and I did NOT drain the tomatoes and barely cooked the cabbage, which i did not core, and then cut the heat so it’s crunchy and tasty

    i had some pulled pork to the side in case it wanted it but it’s just fine as it is

    free trade is a great way to build wealth, if you’re a lil planet in want of such

    happyfeet (831175)

  206. *episode* 5 i mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  207. Dana, Neil McDonough as Robert Quarles from Detroit was out of control – good. Great acting. I agree Tim was superb.

    mg (31009b)

  208. mcdonough is a great villain, and he got what was coming to him,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  209. The tin foil hat theories on the Walmart closings are booming, and frankly I’m wondering if they’re right. — DRJ (e80d46) — 4/18/2015 @ 10:15 pm

    I just watched a Youtube video taken by a person who visited the shuttered Walmart in Pico Rivera, a community several miles to the east of Los Angeles. Police cars are stationed at the entry points of the store, including apparently the rear loading area too.

    The windows in front have been tarped over, but apparently people with prescriptions needing to drop by the store’s pharmacy are being allowed in through at least one passageway. However, the area around the pharmacy has been walled off with empty shelves, presumably to prevent people from wandering (and also seeing) beyond that location.

    Peculiar. Somewhat Orwell-ian or Venezuela-ian, but a fitting scenario in Obama’s America.

    Mark (6c31df)

  210. narciso – Dewey Crowe being murdered looking at those photos made me jump.

    mg (31009b)

  211. Boyd just didn’t want to take any more chances, frankly he has as much blood on his hands, as Papa Givens, so the ending was somewhat unsatisfying,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  212. i had some pulled pork to the side in case it wanted it but it’s just fine as it is

    This being a lazy Sunday, I had to re-read the beginning of that post, happyfeet…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  213. and I am going to miss “Justified” and want to thank whoever it was on this site who’s strong recommendations got me to start watching it. Watched “The Apostle” again a few years ago and was amused to see Walt Goggins in such a different role. An excellent actor, as were many others on Justified, e.g., Jeremy Davies, the aforementioned McDonough, Mykelti Williamson, etc.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  214. @206, nothing says “I do not approve of piracy” like a 25mm chain gun.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfXLEURxozc

    Not even Ma Deuce. Much as I love her.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  215. yes yes i got the pork on sale at jewel

    no i’m not feeding the neighborhood thanks for asking

    happyfeet (831175)

  216. I’m getting shown around the An Yang. A coastal patrol craft, predecessor to the Cheonan. Which is why I’m so PO’d about the NORKs sinking her. I may have known some of those sailors.

    So this guy is showing me around. And we’re down poking around the 76mm gun mount. And I ask “How many rounds do you keep in ready service?”

    The guy looks at me like I tried to rape his sister. “That’s a secret.”

    I’m like, “Dude, I was just trying to make polite conversation about your boat.”

    He wasn’t buying it. But it was the truth. In all honesty I couldn’t have give a rat’s @$$ about his three inch gun.

    Later, at lunch, the skipper kept apologizing because they didn’t have the special food for foreigners. No matter how many times I said I was cool with Korean food.

    It was all so awkward. Until 5:00 p.m. and we had the Soju experience. And all was forgotten.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  217. Sorry, feets. Something you said about feeding the neighborhood reminded me of lunch on the An Yang. The memory works in mysterious ways.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  218. From the wikipedia entry:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donghae-class_corvette

    I put this here because I realize I get lots wrong working from memory.

    The Donghae class corvette (Hangul: 동해급 초계함, Hanja: 東海級哨戒艦) is a class of four ships of the Republic of Korea Navy used for coastal patrol duties. Each corvette is armed with one Oto Melara 76 mm compact gun, three AA guns, six torpedoes and twelve depth charges for anti-submarine operations. The ships resemble the later Pohang class, but have slightly different armament.

    Each ship was built by a different shipbuilder. ROKS Donghae (PCC-751) was the first to be launched, in 18 November 1982, and ROKS Anyang (PCC-755) the last in 1983. Each ship is named after a Korean city while Donghae is a port city itself.

    All this time I thought An Yang was two words.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  219. ah yes the Koreans

    they made my mopping robot

    it’s not nearly as well-engineered as the neato, but i’m happy with it

    happyfeet (831175)

  220. Kaitlyn Dever {Loretta McCready} has impressed me in a few roles. Lots of talent in that kid.

    mg (31009b)

  221. Ace writes:

    http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=356247

    Leftist Writers: We’re Here to Abolish White People

    Inspirational messages for “straight white men” from the Assn of Writers & Writing Programs https://archive.today/zRB16

    Dan Greenfield wrote the other day:

    http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-deconstruction-of-marriage.html

    The only question worth asking about gay marriage is whether anyone on the left would care about this crusade if it didn’t come with the privilege of bulldozing another civilizational institution…

    it is about the deconstruction of marriage between men and women. That is a thing that many men and women of one generation understand but have trouble conveying to another generation for whom marriage has already largely been deconstructed.

    The statistics about the falling marriage rate tell the tale well enough. Marriage is a fading institution. Family is a flickering light in the evening of the West.

    …Every aspect of marriage is deconstructed and then eliminated until it no longer means anything. And once marriage is no longer a lifetime commitment between a man and a woman, but a ceremony with no deeper meaning than most modern ceremonies, then the deconstruction and destruction will be complete.

    …Gay marriage was never the issue. It was always marriage.

    …The left’s deconstruction of social institutions is not a quest for equality, but for destruction. As long as the institutions that preceded it exist, it will go on deconstructing them until there is nothing left but a blank canvas, an unthinking anarchy, on which it can impose its perfect and ideal conception of how everyone should live.

    (Read the whole thing, as the saying goes.)

    I’m curious about those who think one thing is not connected to another thing. Who think I’m only fixated on gay marriage because I must hate teh gays. Who think like Kevin M. that if I don’t attend the gay marriage of my child I am “spurning” my kid and outside of ISIS I couldn’t be elected.

    What is there in Western civilization you can defend? Because you missed your chance. Marriage was it, and you gave it up without a fight. You didn’t even know you lost the war before the first shot was fired. Which just shows how brilliant the preparation of the battlefield through deconstruction was.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  222. Leftists don’t protest when ISIS or Iran throws gays off of buildings or hangs them from cranes for a reason.

    They’re not for gay rights. They’re against something.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  223. Steve @223
    As an extremely conservative Catholic I know likes to say, the battle for marriage was lost when people accepted nofault divorce. Gays are just demanding a piece of the ruins.

    I myself view it differently. We are in the end stage of a process that began about 1600…when marriage started to change from being focused on continuing the family by producing children to something focused on love between the two partners. The true change came in the 19th century. Gay marriage and no fault divorce are merely logical sequelae of that great change.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  224. i blame this , http://www.avclub.com/article/surely-you-cant-be-serious-oral-history-airplane-218043
    (Don’t feel bad if your first thought was Otto, many people did)

    seeRpea (d1cf05)

  225. This isn’t about gay marriage. It’s more like, reviewing the vid to figure out why you lost a football game. The ugly truth.

    Obama keeps talking about the “freedom of worship.” I came across a quote last night, while I was wondering if I had amnesia or what, from a long time ago from a gay marriage supporter. He said no one’s rights were threatened because clergy wouldn’t be forced to do anything against their will.

    A pizza shop in Indiana begs to differ. Also, if anyone has a copy of the Constitution handy, where does the First Amendment mention churches, and it only applies to clergy?

    This is how fights are lost. This is how rights are lost. It really has nothing to do with gays or religion.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  226. 225. …Gay marriage and no fault divorce are merely logical sequelae of that great change.

    kishnevi (91d5c6) — 4/19/2015 @ 7:20 pm

    There was never this great break between child bearing and marriage until it was court enforced. And the only logical sequence it can attach to is this society shall not continue to exist. It must be abolished and replaced.

    And we are in the process of doing that.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  227. …As Orwell understood in 1984, tyranny is essentially about definitions. It is hard to fight for freedom if you lack the word. It is hard to maintain a marriage if the idea no longer exists. Orwell’s Oceania made basic human ideas into contradictory things. The left’s deconstruction of social values does the same thing to such essential institutions as marriage; which becomes an important impermanent thing of no fixed nature or value.

    The left’s greatest trick is making things mean the opposite of what they do. Stealing is sharing. Crime is justice. Property is theft. Each deconstruction is accompanied by an inversion so that a thing, once examined, comes to seem the opposite of what it is, and once that is done, it no longer has the old innate value, but a new enlightened one.

    To deconstruct man, you deconstruct his beliefs and then his way of living. You deconstruct freedom until it means slavery. You deconstruct peace until it means war. You deconstruct property until it means theft. And you deconstruct marriage until it means a physical relationship between any group of people for any duration. And that is the opposite of what marriage is…

    The next thing will be gender. You people who abandoned the last hill, thinking marriage wasn’t worth fighting for. Will the next hill be?

    Is it really worth fighting over the fact I hold up four fingers, and the powers that be tell you to see only three? What’s the diff?

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  228. http://www.thecrimson.com/column/the-red-line/article/2014/2/18/academic-freedom-justice/

    In the name of inclusion, we can exclude anything.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  229. 225. …I myself view it differently. We are in the end stage of a process that began about 1600…when marriage started to change from being focused on continuing the family by producing children to something focused on love between the two partners. The true change came in the 19th century. Gay marriage and no fault divorce are merely logical sequelae of that great change.
    kishnevi (91d5c6) — 4/19/2015 @ 7:20 pm

    I myself view it as the opposing force successfully manipulated you. We are at the end state of a process? Really? Where are you getting this from, other than the people who want to abolish marriage?

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  230. The whole point of the marriage abolitionists was to convince people marriage was just dying on the vine.

    And kishnevi comes along and says he’s convinced marriage just died on the vine. There was a natural trajectory that led to this place.

    Of course.

    The fact that so many of you won’t see through this makes me fear for the future. More than ISIS.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  231. They’re not for gay rights. They’re against something.

    In general, people on the left — not all, but many, if not most — are lousy judges of people and situations. In their effort to be supposedly loving and caring (or tolerant—at least as they define that word), they end up transposing the true underdog with the actual top-dog, aiming their sympathies so recklessly (or idiotically) that they continuously illustrate the meaning of “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

    americanthinker.com, April 19, 2015: A high school principal in Ohio was forced to cancel an event where female students would wear a hijab to celebrate “diversity.” This counterintuitive event was the target of outrage on the internet at the cluelessness of a principal who believed celebrating diversity by allowing young women to wear a symbol of anti-diversity was just fine.

    ——–
    Cleveland Plain Dealer: Intense criticism has prompted an Ohio high school’s principal to cancel a student event in which girls would celebrate diversity by spending a day wearing a Muslim headscarf.

    Mason High School Mindy McCarty-Stewart also issued an apology in an email Thursday to district families, saying the intent of the April 23 student-led event was meant to be positive, the Cincinnati Enquirer reported. The event, dubbed the “The Covered Girl Challenge,” was designed to combat stereotypes women face wearing head coverings. Similar events have been held on college campuses and other high schools. McCarty-Stewart said she decided to cancel the event because it was clear it was not reaching its goal of teaching tolerance, the Dayton Daily News reported.

    ——–
    Such is the ignorance of this principal that she didn’t think it inappropriate for American girls to imitate the oppression of Muslim women. Someone that dense should be fired. Instead, she will probably get a raise.

    ^ I may be wrong, but Mindy McCarty-Stewart probably — probably — is a big fan of characters like Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, etc, etc.

    Mark (6c31df)

  232. Steve, I believe in viewing ideas through the filter of history: how people actually lived and thought. History shows that people began thinking differently about marriage c. 1600, and by 1900 the change was complete. All you need do is to read literature, and note the difference among writers over time for evidence.

    Marriage did not die on the vine. It changed over the centuries like almost everything else.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  233. kishnevi, should this society reproduce itself? And if so how, since marriage will no longer be the mechanism?

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  234. If marriage is so irrelevant, why is it we are denying gays an elemental right when we say they can’t get married? Is it nothing, or something?

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  235. Humans being humans will continue to know each other carnally, and produce children. Many of them will even be married to each other.
    IOW you are putting words in my mouth. You think marriage is dying. I do not. I merely think it has changed.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  236. kishnevi, you are describing your acceptance of the process of deconstruction. Yet while engaging in the act of deconstruction, you are trying to explain to me I must be off my nut for saying what is happening, is happening. HELLO!

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  237. kishnevi. Got it. Transmission not received.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  238. 237. …Humans being humans will continue to know each other carnally, and produce children.

    kishnevi (91d5c6) — 4/19/2015 @ 8:23 pm

    As will Chimpanzees. I think if you look at my earlier comments I made mention of societies.

    But if you deconstruct terms sufficiently you can arrive at these conclusions.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  239. Define marriage, kishnevi. And tell me you haven’t adopted the abolitionist definition from 20 years ago.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  240. 241.
    That is easy. Genesis 2:24.
    Which, you may notice, does not mention begetting and raising children.

    kishnevi (adea75)

  241. What Torah are you reading?

    23 The man said,

    “This is now bone of my bones
    and flesh of my flesh;
    she shall be called ‘woman,’
    for she was taken out of man.”

    24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

    25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame.

    And then Jesus said, should you lean that way:

    2 Some Pharisees came and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?”

    3 “What did Moses command you?” he replied.

    4 They said, “Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce and send her away.”

    5 “It was because your hearts were hard that Moses wrote you this law,” Jesus replied. 6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’[a] 7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,[b] 8 and the two will become one flesh.’[c] So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

    Please explain in all hilarity what parts you find “easy?”

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  242. kishnevi illustrates my point. The abolitionists who think you shouldn’t exist start by saying, no, no, they only want the Sudetenland. They want the whole f***ing thing.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  243. Context. I’m all about the context.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  244. kisnevi and Steve, my take on “gay marriage” is that it is the result of our welfare system and tax laws, and nothing more. If a man and woman love each other and want to have a family, what the two guys across the street are doing isn’t of any significance … until one of them wants to be your son’s Scout Master. And that isn’t anything new, the problem is just a little more identifiable, which might be a good thing.

    They may demand that you treat them like husband and wife, but that is just a joke. The important thing for them is that they get all the goodies that have been built into our welfare state.

    Change the welfare state, and the impetus for gay marriage will disappear.

    And I think kisnevi is off by about 50 years. The revolution in the status of marriage and presumed fidelity occurred with the discovery of DNA in 1953 and the subsequent development of genetic methods for determining parentage. This has a lot of ramifications for traditional societies.

    bobathome (ef0d3a)

  245. Mr. Bobathome, I respectfully submit I disagree. And with the passage of time it will become clear. I will expound on it on the You Asked For It series.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  246. Steve, that 25 mm chain gun looks like the accessory I’ve been meaning to get for my sailboat. It would take up the entire cockpit, but what a surprise for the guys that try to board me in their 25′ outboard. I’d need a bigger generator too. Maybe 10 KW?

    It looked like they were training the 50 caliber gunner to walk the splashes onto the target. This is fine for daylight work, but he’ll have problems at night. The range was rather small also. If they intend to let the Iranians get that close, they may never get a chance to fire. I looked up the Hellfire missile, and it can be deployed on small craft and it has a range of 8000 m. It will be a matter of a few months before the Iranians are training with their portion of the 1700 Obola sent to Iraq.

    I really enjoyed Dog Boats at War and Gunboat 358 by Leonard Reynolds. The battles were all fought at night and at ranges of a few hundred yards. The Germans had 88’s and 20 mm cannons mounted on their lighters, and the British had 20mm, 40mm, and 3″ guns. The Germans had reinforced concrete shields and tended to hide behind them. The British gunners were exposed, so they had a great interest in placing their rounds where they would do something significant as soon as possible. And although the MGB’s could go 30+ knots, the successful intercepts occurred at very low speeds with little or no wake or motor noise, often guided by radar mounted on U. S. PT Boats. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be dueling with 20mm cannons at 200 yards!

    bobathome (ef0d3a)

  247. Make that Gunboat 658 …. sigh … short term memory is shrinking by the minute.

    bobathome (ef0d3a)

  248. It looked like they were training the 50 caliber gunner to walk the splashes onto the target. This is fine for daylight work, but he’ll have problems at night. The range was rather small also. If they intend to let the Iranians get that close, they may never get a chance to fire.

    I could be misinterpreting your words, and if so forgive me, but the Navy realized after Tassafarongo that chasing the splashes was a fool’s game. Not all at once. We lost a lot after that battle before we figured it out.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  249. You mean watching the columns of water to walk the fire onto the enemy, as opposed to allowing the columns of water to mask the presence of the enemy on radar so you walk the fire where the enemy isn’t.

    Which seems like a Simpson’s moment to most peeps.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  250. I have to confess and leave the field to bobathome. I have no personal experience when it comes to naval gunnery. Or artillery in general. I’ve heard about it. Never done it.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  251. re #243: and steve57 points out one of the reasons the Rabbis kicked out the Paulinian Jesus Group.
    But the basic question is really a good one: what is marriage?

    Does it need to be a holy matrimony? according to the Torah, no! However, it is much preferred that it be such a union. Catholics would not agree with that, pretty sure all Protestants would for once agree with the Catholics. Not so sure about the Muslims and have no idea about the Budhists and Hindus. Though it is interesting that the concept of marriage was among the Ameridians when the Spanish arrived to the Americas.

    seeRpea (d1cf05)

  252. The important question is, according to the Constitution, does the Constitution get a say.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  253. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deYOGf1gnqk

    Black Eagle “Send Me On My Way”

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  254. Warriors all. Bet you couldn’t pick them out of a line up. Especially the guys down on the mess deck.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  255. I am only an honorary Hormel Hawg. VAW-114.

    My first love is the F-14.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fdI6wtARfE

    Nothing worth having comes easy.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  256. e pleb nista, Steve,b’it’s over a hundred years old’ institutions are made for permanence, with the raw exceptions when they cannot be, is it a coincidence that the Soviet Union was among the first to institute no fault divorce,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  257. Since very early on, the plan on this earth was to warp and deconstruct what God had created, in near infinite variations of one simple theme:
    instead of trusting in and depending on God,
    depend on yourself or some other man-made “structure” that we can control,
    whether that structure is a physical one or social/political one.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  258. truly, the world has one focuses on oneself, on idols of various types, the Tower of Babel,
    the Golden Calf, money, status, everything but God,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  259. #258: Doc, Wow! I thought Walker should have stepped in after the St. Francis animal shelter raid in Kenosha, and now I find out that Walker and his supporters have been the target of these kinds of raids since 2009. My gosh!

    It shows how important our local district attorneys and judges are. Between the goof ball in Austin, Texas, and the Gestapo in Milwaukee County, we have a vision of the progressive future. It’s interesting to see the imaginative kinds of abuse the left can dream up when they are given just a smidgen of power. I guess if there are no rules, and no heritage, anything is permissible.

    The destruction brought down on these families because they supported the Club for Growth and Walker is a lesson we should pay careful attention to. And the obstruction rendered by the Federal District court is just another reaffirmation that whom we elect for President is a crucial choice.

    How on earth are we going to root out all the rot that has infested our government?

    bobathome (ef0d3a)

  260. I see in Wisconsis the Gleichschaltung continues apace.

    All for exercising their First Amendment rights. Essentially, for being conservatives.

    Which is where my interest lies. Gay marriage is just one chess piece on the board. I was looking back through the various lies the gay marriage activists used over the years. Many of which people found convincing. The first of course was just after the Lawrence decision and they started pushing for civil unions. So the the first lie was that they weren’t pushing for gay marriage at all, and it was just a loony right wing nutter hallucination that they even wanted to get to gay marriage.

    Yes, I was crazy for thinking so.

    But other lies involved First Amendment rights, which were in no way threatened by gay marriage. But first they had to redefine those First Amendment rights. They weren’t threatening anyone’s freedom of worship. It was just a right wing delusion that the freedom of religion of clergy was under threat by gay marriage.

    So, since pizza isn’t made inside a church, and the pizza shop owner isn’t an ordained minister, the First Amendment isn’t involved at all. Clearly the First Amendment doesn’t protect anything of importance. Freedom of speech? Well, just like the freedom of the press that belongs to recognized and licensed members of the media. And it doesn’t protect hate speech. Who determines who is a member of the press, and what is hate speech? Why, the left. Freedom of association? As long as it’s done inclusively. The right to petition your government? As long as you’re properly vetted and cleared by Hillary! and her campaign staff.

    Only nine amendments left to go. Eight, really, since the Tenth is meaningless. And regarding the Second Amemdment, we see another tool in the leftists shed. Brainwashing, mind control, coercive persuasion, whatever you’d like to call it. Public school is organized child abuse. These people know that no safety issues are involved when a child chews a pop tart or draws a picture. That’s not the point. The huge, towering over reaction and the sheer repetitiveness would be familiar to anyone who has ever deprogrammed a cult member. By the time these kids are out of high school most of them have been indoctrinated to let the system do their thinking for them. Which is the point.

    It’s a multi-axis attack on the Bill of Rights. Earlier I compared gay marriage to a chess piece. Really, it’s more like a boulder in an avalanche. You might dodge one, or even two or three. But if he mountain sends thousands your way you’re eventually screwed.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  261. More Gleichschaltung news.

    http://acecomments.mu.nu/?post=356278

    Playwright Tom Stoppard: “A Frightening Time” For Free Speech

    …If you don’t know how the game is played, the new magic word is “unsafe,” because if you claim someone is making you feel “unsafe,” that sets in motion Title IX protections. That is, if you want to censor someone, just claim not that you disagree with them or find them disgusting, but that they make you feel “unsafe;” then administrators are under legal peril if they do not act swiftly to restore your sense of chill.

    … They give the game away by being so blatant (and dumb) in dropping the fake pretext that this is about “protecting rape victims.”

    With the “Trigger Warning: Anti-Feminist,” they straight up admit: This is just about protecting women from disagreement.

    — but it seems like Sommers’s experience with Oberlin students will be the same. In fact, the Oberlin students who wrote a piece for the school newspaper protesting the invitation preceded it with a trigger warning–� apparently, they consider Sommers to be so dangerous that even talking about her talking could traumatize someone.

    “Her talk is happening, so let’s pull together in the face of this violence and make our own space to support each other,” the students wrote in the piece, which was titled “In Response to Sommers’ Talk: A Love Letter to Ourselves” and had been signed by more than 150 students and campus groups as of noon on Friday. “It is valid and necessary to both create alternative spaces for healing and to directly challenge the violence that is happening,” it continued.

    Note, again, that “violence” here means “a 130-pound academic giving a speech at a venue I am not required to attend.”

    So, non-conformist thought is violence. What are the state sponsors of SWATting supposed to do about that?

    I realize it may appear I’m obsessed with the subject of gay marriage. Because it’s the wolf closest to the sled at the moment. If that weren’t the issue, it would be something else. The left has a lot of irons in the fire. But to take a step back, what I’m concerned about is the atomization of society. So that there is no family, is no marriage, is no church, no God, and no free associations. There is only the individual and the government. There is no counterweight, no source of morality or authority, no support or source or obligation of loyalty, besides government. Which is the goal. And in that situation, guess who always wins?

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  262. I agree with the main point.
    For the state to be the major force in everyone’s life,
    it means that other institutions have to have their roles minimized,
    including the family and the church.
    And there has to be economic freedom to have real freedom,
    otherwise one is left with the freedom to disagree and starve to death.

    Of course, then one is getting into apocalyptic stuff like needing the mark of the beast in order to buy or sell anything.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  263. There’s nothing particularly apocalyptic or conspiratorial about noticing the boulders marked “gay marriage” and “economic justice” and “trigger warning” and “hate speech” are all part of the same avalanche.

    The left would like you to think so. In a “how dare you figure out what we’re up to” sort of way.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  264. The left has always been full of braggarts who couldn’t help but crow about what they intended to do, and how they intended to do it.

    And one of the key elements was to label anyone not sympathetic to their cause who actually read the crap they published of being a paranoid delusional.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  265. 265. …including the family and the church.

    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 4/20/2015 @ 6:36 pm

    It’s not just family and the church. In Kali, a judge can not be a member of the Boy Scouts.

    So, say goodbye to that First Amendment right of free association.

    Which, again, is the point.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  266. Note to Chicago contingent. Good work.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-uber-driver-shoots-gunman-met-0420-20150419-story.html

    Authorities say no charges will be filed against an Uber driver who shot and wounded a gunman who opened fire on a crowd of people in Logan Square over the weekend.

    The driver had a concealed-carry permit and acted in the defense of himself and others, Assistant State’s Attorney Barry Quinn said in court Sunday…

    A big and heartfelt howdy from Texas. Welcome back to the fold, Land of Lincoln.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)

  267. The Uber driver, a 47-year-old resident of Little Italy, provided police with a valid concealed-carry permit and a firearm owner’s identification card, Quinn said.

    Unlike much of the news emanating from Chicago, there is nothing I don’t like about this story.

    Steve57 (cd6f9a)


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