Saving The Lost Boys Of ISIS
[guest post by Dana]
State Dept. spokesperson Marie Harf, in discussing the ISIS situation with Chris Matthews, said this:
We cannot kill our way out of this war. We need in the medium to longer term to go after the root causes that leads people to join these groups, whether it’s a lack of opportunity for jobs.
We’re not going to be able to stop that in our lifetime or 50 lifetimes,” Matthews interrupted. “There’s always going to be poor people. There’s always going to be poor Muslims, and as long as there are poor Muslims, the trumpet’s blowing and they’ll join. We can’t stop that, can we?”
In return, Harf suggested a soft power-like approach: “We can work with countries around the world to help improve their governance,” she said. “We can help them build their economies so they can have job opportunities for these people.
After a facing a barrage of criticism, Harf got on her high horse, ostensibly to clarify her comments, but instead ended up insulting the intelligence of the American people:
“I’m not the first person to say something like this,” Harf said. “Military commanders that we’ve had throughout many years here fighting this war on terrorism have said the exact same thing, that in the short term when there’s a threat like ISIL. We’ll take direct military action against these terrorists. We have done that. We are doing that in Iraq and Syria. But longer term, we have to look at how we combat the conditions that can lead people to turn to extremism.”
“So you suggested that maybe if you find these young men jobs, they might not become terrorists?” Blitzer asked, echoing her critics, prompting Harf to call his statement a “gross oversimplification.”
“We cannot kill every terrorist around the world, nor should we try,” Harf said later. “How do you get at the root causes of this? It might be too nuanced an argument for some, like I’ve seen over the last 24 hours some of the commentary out there, but it’s really the smart way that Democrats, Republicans, our partners in the Arab world think we need to combat it.”
This administration continues to embolden the enemy through this incredibly naive and clueless outlook. If we don’t say the “I” word, if we don’t provoke them in any way, if we “feel their pain” and respect them and if we understand they’ve been humiliated and damaged in life, then all will be well and they will not see us as their enemy. How else to explain this inability to recognize nonredeemable evil and call it by its name – even as we witness the despicable, barbaric and heinous acts of evil being committed against humanity on a daily basis?
I don’t know what the administration’s mission plan is to combat ISIS. I don’t know that they even have one yet. But what I am compelled to believe, right here and right now, is that this president is on a mission – a holy mission and that is to be the savior to the Lost Boys of ISIS.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (8e74ce) — 2/17/2015 @ 5:41 pmYeah, right Marie. Whatever.
elissa (3ae774) — 2/17/2015 @ 5:45 pmOf course, if unemployment was the main motivation to join ISIS, then most of the ME would already be controlled by ISIS. Might as well throw in Mississippi and Georgia, too.
Dana (8e74ce) — 2/17/2015 @ 5:49 pmYes, it’s all because they are denied work.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 2/17/2015 @ 5:50 pmPerhaps we should set up some sweatshops over there.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 2/17/2015 @ 5:53 pmImpeach this bastard of a president
mg (31009b) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:03 pmIt’s clearly the new meme.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/vice-president-joe-biden-calls-steps-force-fight/story?id=29032199
elissa (3ae774) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:07 pmBut longer term, we have to look at how we combat the conditions that can lead people to turn to extremism.”
Can we start by figuring out the root causes of your empty-headed liberalism?
Quite sincerely too, as that question really isn’t purely a matter of being glib. Why various people — particularly once they’re well past a certain age — gravitate to leftist or rightist proclivities should evoke the theory of nurture or nature, or probably mainly the latter more than the former, and deserves scrutiny.
Oh, and if economic deprivation were the source of socio-political fanaticism, there would be few to no terrorists incubated in the relatively cradle-to-grave-creature-comforts setting of Saudi Arabia, with all its oil-fueled wealth.
Mark (c160ec) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:09 pmfailmerica has had 6 years under food stamp to go after root causes
result?
fail.
happyfeet (831175) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:11 pmTypical liberal dogma. I recall growing up hearing in school this same liberal dogma that all of our (USA) problems were caused by the same things, lack of jobs, poverty, lack of education or whatever excuse they can dream up.
I always thought our problems were caused by our nature for sin and such. All these years later and all these liberal programs later, and they still have not solved nor reduced even one problem. Matter of fact all they have done is add to them, yet they keep claiming if they only had just a bit more, then and only then could they solve the problem.
MSL (5f601f) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:16 pmEh, skip the sweat shops, Kevin M, and jump right to the unemployment checks.
Dana (8e74ce) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:27 pmHarfn’Psaki are just the face to put on the Obama admin’s foreign policy, which is in Full-Lock-Sillycunny mode… pathetically clueless, and they invite ISIL agression every time they open their moronic cakeholes.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:34 pmheh, lucy and ethel
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/398803/lucy-and-ethel-take-foggy-bottom-ian-tuttle?
elissa (3ae774) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:37 pmThe 9/11 hijackers were not poor. They participated in their suicide mission for their religion.
Can’t the MSM push back any of this BS?
AZ Bob (34bb80) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:42 pmDon’t you wish these characters were as understanding toward their political opponents?
Simon Jester (67f823) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:47 pmas shown in dana’s thread intro, both blitzer and matthews did push back.
elissa (3ae774) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:49 pmNo, Simon, I honestly don’t. I’ve no use or time for airheads.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:56 pmElissa,
I was surprised to see Chris Matthews push back, but apparently there is a level of stupid that even he won’t stoop to.
Further, even Ed Schultz is getting tired of the games:
Dana (8e74ce) — 2/17/2015 @ 6:57 pmThe more I read about the people in this administration, the more I think we need to get them on the battlefield pronto. They NEVER quit and NEVER give up.
Dejectedhead (4bfcf6) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:00 pmStrategic patience, people.
Don’t do stupid stuff.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:04 pmLiberal action plan:
Step 1. Make it worse.
Step 2. Claim you made it better.
Easy 2 step process.
Dejectedhead (4bfcf6) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:04 pmRAH, of course.
I’m becoming convinced I know the long-term plan: Surrender.
htom (4ca1fa) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:10 pmas shown in dana’s thread intro, both blitzer and matthews did push back
Matthews actually buys into the premise that poverty is the cause. He just says that we can end their poverty in our lifetime.
He should have asked whether religion is the cause.
AZ Bob (34bb80) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:12 pmIf Ms. Harf and any of her superiors (up through and including John Kerry’s boss) wants to volunteer to be ISIS hostages so they can patiently and cheerfully explain all this to them, I won’t try to talk them out of it.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:13 pmI’m surprised Obama has yet not suggested implementing gun control over there. Just grab all the guns from the extremists and peace will reign. They believe it will work in this country. Why not there?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:19 pmWho said Obama didn’t institute gun control? Didn’t he try to take guns away from Iraq and Israel?
Dejectedhead (4bfcf6) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:21 pmIslam. It’s Islam. Not poverty. Not a lack of jobs. Is. Lam.
Edoc118 (8b952d) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:27 pmOk, which one of you guys said, a while back, that Betas never hire Alphas? Obama is a clueless weak sister and, ergo, his people will be clueless weak sisters. His great political luck was to come along at a time when the Republicans are likewise chock full of clueless weak sisters and whiny old men.
nk (dbc370) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:28 pmOh! for the days of a SecState like TR’s, the immortal John Hay! Hay’s career as a public servant began with sleeping outside Lincoln’s bedroom in 1861, and ended a half-century later in 1905, a few months after he’d sent the memorable cable in reply to the Islamic regime in Morocco that was urging negotiation with a bandit who’d kidnapped an American citizen: “Perdicaris alive or Rasouli dead!” TR had already sent seven U.S. Navy warships to patrol the coast with an invasion force of several companies of American Marines.
(By the way, don’t believe what you read about the Perdicaris incident in Wikipedia, it’s all bollixed up by revisionist-progressive historians. Read John Taliaferro’s genuinely brilliant 2013 biography, All the Great Prizes: The Life of John Hay, from Lincoln to Roosevelt; I highly recommend it!)
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:30 pm28-nk- message received.
mg (31009b) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:46 pmHarf is right. It would get go complicated. Or, nuanced, if you need to stick to two syllable words. Mostly for the State Dept. Spokeswoman/Senior National Security #Hashtag Adviser/WH Freshman Dorm Sorority Spring Rush Chairwoman (D-Nordstrom Rack) attempting to string words together.
Sigh. On the bright side, if she’s in DC then at least I don’t have to deal with the dumb broad screwing up my lunch order at Applebee’s.
These people just can’t figure out that maybe, just maybe, the terrorists really are motivated by Islam.
Steve57 (6b5a38) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:51 pmSo, Beldar,
1. Ion Perdicaris was not an old draft dodger who had run off to Greece and renounced his U.S. citizenship to avoid fighting in the Civil War, living thereafter the life of an expatriate playboy, with his only remaining connection to the United States being the wife of an American businessman he was running around with?
2. The ultimatum was more than TR’s version “read my lips, no more taxes” at the Republican convention to clinch his renomination?*
3. The Sultan of Morocco did not negotiate with Raisuli, did not meet Raisuli’s demands, and did not buy Perdicaris and his “stepson” back?
4. The only actual U.S. military to land in Morocco was more than a small detail of Marines accompanying the diplomats?
Not that I did not enjoy the movie with Sean Connery and Candace Bergen very much.
nk (dbc370) — 2/17/2015 @ 7:52 pm*I will not quibble over whether it was subsequently communicated by Hay to the Sultan of Morocco.
“Who said Obama didn’t institute gun control? Didn’t he try to take guns away from Iraq and Israel?”
Dejectedhead – He was just resisting supplying armaments to the people theoretically allied with us. That’s different than taking them away from his enemies.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/17/2015 @ 8:06 pmIts technically different, possibly theoretically the same.
Dejectedhead (4bfcf6) — 2/17/2015 @ 8:28 pm1. The Plan shall be strict ROE’s. You may return fire after being shot yourself. Mortally wounded is a safe reference for return fire. However, if you have the temerity to survive, you may be prosecuted by vaunted war veteran Beau Biden
steveg (794291) — 2/17/2015 @ 8:35 pm2. Weaponry. All rifles shall be State of CA compliant. 10 round magazines. Magazine to require a tool to change “bullet button” style. (note bullet button may not remain legal in this campaign so please check twice hourly updates on what is compliant).
3. Night vision right now is not compliant until we get word the opposition has received their shipment of superior night vision accessories. Also, war is hell, so ISIS needs a fixed 8-10 hours a night of high REM sleep. Night raids and dawn raids are not acceptable.
4.Your new commander is Leeroy Jenkins. Good luck.
Ya know , it is the Muslims who are the ones suffering the trials and tribulations of living in Europe,
seeRpea (6c0f9a) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:15 pmshould muslims give up on France
“Let them hate, so long as they fear.” The Romans also went to the next level after that, as well. “They made a desert, and called it peace.”
tweell (da8094) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:20 pmI don’t know what’s stooopider.
Marie Harf thinking ISIS terrorists just need good paying jobs.
Or the rest of this administration thinking they can help other countries provide good governance, build their economies, and give people economic opportunity.
Steve57 (6b5a38) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:24 pmnk, read the book I linked. The author spends a lot of time and goes into great detail on most or all of these subjects, especially the citizenship point, and he persuaded me that there’s doubt, or at least complicating detail, regarding each of those assertions. Goodwin’s recent TR book repeats those same assertions IIRC — I read it within weeks after reading Taliaferro’s book, and I was struck by the contrast — but Goodwin’s cites are old and she apparently ignores or didn’t know about Taliaferro’s well-footnoted and researched arguments. That’s my take, anyway.
I agree that the movie is indeed a hoot but an extremely loose retelling of tall tales. I enjoyed it not just for Sean Connery playing a North African bandit with a Scottish brogue, and for Candice Bergen’s mature but still-young and always-striking beauty, and also for Brian Keith’s ridiculously over-the-top TR, and for the wonderfully evocative and haunting theme music. John Huston made a fine and entirely apt John Hay as well.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:31 pmAnd speaking of TR, there was a POTUS who actually deserved the Nobel Peace Prize he won! Taliaferro’s book left me rather more impressed with TR’s handling of the Sino-Japanese treaty than I’d previously been, and persuaded me that it was indeed more TR’s own doing than Hay’s; although Hay was involved early on in planning the strategy that led to the convening of the conference, by the time of the actual negotiations he was sickly and mostly out of the loop.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:38 pmMeh. Everybody wants to fight the power, but nobody steps up.
Ag80 (eb6ffa) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:40 pmSteve57,
It’s not the stupidity that’s so telling, it’s the utter arrogance of believing that it is ours to provide good governance, build their economies, and give them economic opportunity.
Dana (8e74ce) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:42 pm“It’s not the stupidity that’s so telling, it’s the utter arrogance of believing that it is ours to provide good governance, build their economies, and give them economic opportunity.”
Dana – I thought we were out of the nation building business.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:50 pmIt’s all about shovel-ready jobs, Daley.
Dana (8e74ce) — 2/17/2015 @ 9:51 pmD’oh! Russo-Japanese, not Sino-Japanese. I denounce myself. Great TR’s ghost, forgive me!
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/17/2015 @ 10:14 pmHeh! Since you’re still on the subject, Beldar ….
I thought Brian Keith played an understated Teddy Roosevelt. My picture of him has always been one of a swashbuckler. Was the blindness in his one eye a retinal detachment or some infection he contacted on one of his safaris, does the book say?
nk (dbc370) — 2/17/2015 @ 10:31 pmWell, on second thought, it may be impossible to overact when playing TR. The Library of Congress has both silent movie clips and a few audio recordings of TR, and they’re interesting but they can’t match the contemporaneous descriptions of his personality and forcefulness of will from both his friends and foes. The blindness in his left eye was from a 1905 boxing session at the White House with a military aid, I’ve read in several different places, including TR’s NYT Obit. Taliaferro’s biography of Hay has lots of interesting things about TR, but I don’t recall it mentioning TR’s blindness in particular, and alas my Kindle version is “not yet indexed,” so I can’t word-search through it.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/17/2015 @ 11:50 pmObama’s action plan:
1. Hope it goes away.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 2/17/2015 @ 11:57 pm2. Claim it did, regardless.
With all respect to the ladies, this is what comes of letting too much
estrogen get spread around into areas they can’t fully comprehend due to
their sheltered lives and limited real world experience.
Some women can make the jump but it takes more than a degree and a job
description for them to be leaders.
Neither of the latest representatives of the WH or State Dept. qualify.
When war is in the offing it’s time to call in the warriors. (doesn’t matter what
jakee308 (f0aa61) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:05 amgender they are, it’s a state of mind.)
nk, I re-read the portions of Taliaferro’s book about the Perdicaris Incident to refresh my recollection. Taliaferro reveals that the “dead or alive” ultimatum had been jointly drafted by Hay and TR weeks earlier in the crisis in a slightly weaker form, but that it had been repeatedly set aside as the situation changed (while the Brits were trying to get the Moroccans to placate or pay off Raisuli), and that it was coincidental (but concededly very helpful to TR) that Hay’s telegram to the American consul-general in Tangier was made public just in time to be read aloud at the 2004 Republican convention. He quotes the New York World‘s headline for its description of the convention reaction when the telegram was read aloud: “Fee, Fi, Fo, Fum, give me the blood of the Mussulman!”
Re Perdicaris’ citizenship, Taliaferro writes that there were reports during the crisis from a North Carolina cotton broker named A.H. Slocum who claimed to have met Perdicaris in Athens during the Civil War; Slocum claimed that Perdicaris had come to Greece to renounce his U.S. citizenship (he was born in New Jersey of a South Carolinian mother and a Greek father) as a way to keep the Rebs from nationalizing property Perdicaris had inherited from his mother. But despite an interim report from the American consul in Athens that “one Ionnas Perdicaris” had been made a naturalized Greek citizen on March 19, 1862, the State Department didn’t get final confirmation that this was indeed the same person — it’s apparently a not-uncommon Greek name — until several weeks after both Perdicaris’ release and TR’s re-nomination.
The actual “dead or alive” telegram also instructed the consul-general that, in fact, he was not to arrange for the landing of the nearby Marines or the seizure of Moroccan customs houses “without specific direction from the [State] Department,” so that at the same time the U.S. was making a public demand on the Moroccan sultan to secure Perdicaris’ release instantly, at the same time the U.S. was reducing the likelihood that its own military force might accidentally be drawn into carrying out the threats. But they didn’t read those lines from the telegram at the convention.
And by the time the telegram was received by the consul-general, Raisuli and Perdicaris were already grand friends and Raisuli had agreed to his release in exchange for $70,000 and the sultan’s release of some of Raisuli’s imprisoned tribesmen.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:26 amBlearg, I meant of course the 1904 Republican convention, not George W. Bush’s renominating convention in 2004.
Beldar (fa637a) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:27 amOh, if ONLY The Stupid truly burned…. :-S
http://www.skeptinerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/stupid_it_burns.jpg
IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d) — 2/18/2015 @ 3:56 amI think it comes down to the fact that some people just aren’t good people.
IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d) — 2/18/2015 @ 3:59 amAnd some people aren’t necessarily bad people but, when fed a lifetime of “it’s not YOUR fault you’re a total and abject failure“, well, they .become. bad people….
Especially for Teh One and Kerry, who are very busy shoveling SOMETHING at the American People….
IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d) — 2/18/2015 @ 4:03 amthe minute we get them all jobs some high class state department pickleslut will be calling for raising their minimum wages
you know it
i know it
happyfeet (a037ad) — 2/18/2015 @ 5:43 amThank you, Beldar. The difference in the names in significant. “Ionnas” is Jonah, like swallowed by a big fish, from the Old Testament. “Ion” was the progenitor of the Ionians, from Greek mythology. Perdicaris would be the Greek form of Partridge, not very uncommon. Like Napoleon might or might not have said: “History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon.”
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 5:56 amThis is the same “liberal” solution or analysis of “root causes” that they have of the causes of crime. It’s not true. If it were true, ISIS, and the Syrian Civil War, by destroying the economy of Syria, cannot be defeated.
It is possible that ISIS thinks a little bit this way. Back in the days when it was al Qaida in Iraq, they used to knock out the electricity, or sabotage and destroy projects the United states funded.
It’s even more a commonplace “liberal” idea that education is the way to counter radical islamic ideology.
Well, if so, they’re on to that.
Sammy Finkelman (e806a6) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:26 amThis whole idea is premised on the idea that terrorist leaders won’t realize that jobs and education will defeat them, so they won’t interfere with our efforts.
Sammy Finkelman (e806a6) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:29 amI, for one, appreciate the lovely Miss Harf and her statement. As far as I am concerned, she told the truth. No, not the real world truth; she’s just amazingly stupid as far as that is concerned. But she told the truth about the Obama Administration’s mindset; what she said is how the only significant people in the Administration think.
And yes, I’m pimping my own site with that link! 🙂
After earning her BA in Political Science at Indiana, and her MA in Foreign Policy at Virginia, Miss Harf was hired by the CIA as an intelligence analyst specializing in the Middle East; this may explain a great deal about just how good our intelligence assessments of the Middle East were.
The blogger Dana (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:34 amMr 57 wrote:
Hey, they think that they’ve done a great, a marvelous, an outstanding, job of building our own!
The snarky Dana (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:40 amMiss Harf is the poster child for why we need Scott Walker. Two feet firmly planted in reality and no head up his butt. Idiots like Harf are the exact reason why in today’s world a college education can be a detriment rather than a benefit. Colleges today seem to teach people how to think dysfunctional with a heavy dose of fantasy and cognitive dissonance. And these fools think they should lead us. God save the Republic.
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:55 ami like how his firmly planted feet don’t got no stupid bread bags on them
this is something i look for in a candidate
happyfeet (a037ad) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:13 amLord have mercy, do these Obama appointees have no interest in reading any history? There have been several studies of the economic backgrounds of Islamic terrorists, and as Princeton-trained economist Claude Berrebi put it:
Walter Cronanty (f48cd5) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:44 amMr Cronanty asked:
No, because to read history, indeed to look at anything which might upset their ivory tower mindset, would be to do something really radical and expose the silliness of their positions. American progressivism cannot stand exposure to the truth.
The historian Dana (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 8:10 am==“It’s not the stupidity that’s so telling, it’s the utter arrogance of believing that it is ours to provide good governance, build their economies, and give them economic opportunity.” (Dana)
Dana – I thought we were out of the nation building business. daleyrocks (bf33e9) —2/17/2015 @ 9:50==
Do not overlook that the possibilities for unionizing are almost endless, though.
elissa (8749d9) — 2/18/2015 @ 8:29 amelissa and Dana – You need to remember that we did not win WWII by killing the enemy and bombing the crap out of their infrastructure, but by offering them high quality job opportunities.
The past is prologue.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 8:40 amMr Rocks wrote:
[slapping forehead] Well, of course you’re right! It was all of those construction jobs that became available when the cities had to be rebuilt!
But, wouldn’t that also mean that by bombing the crap out of Da’ish, we’d be creating construction jobs for them? Oh, wait, I’m sorry: all you have to do is sew canvas together to rebuild a tent.
The Dana with a sore forehead (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:14 am“But, wouldn’t that also mean that by bombing the crap out of Da’ish, we’d be creating construction jobs for them? Oh, wait, I’m sorry: all you have to do is sew canvas together to rebuild a tent.”
Adjectival Dana – I’m going to take a wild guess and propose that the part Marie Harf and Obama are missing is that usually something called a “victory”, which they may need to look in a dictionary, precedes the creation of those shovel ready or needle ready jobs, but that’s just me. YMMV.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:26 amMr Rocks wrote:
Victory is a cisheteronormative white patriarchal concept.
The multiculturally progressive Dana (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:31 amAgain, the Marxist view of life governs each and every situation.
Radicals don’t want good governance! They don’t want jobs! They want pure sharia! With all its commonalities with socialism, you might think Marie would almost agree with them.
Patricia (5fc097) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:31 amI think the Obama foreign policy prescription of “not doing stupid stuff” should have extended to “not saying stupid stuff”, but with the quality and experience of the thinkers in this administration that’s a very tall order.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:32 amPatricia wrote:
While I can’t be certain, I’m guessing that Jen Psaki and Marie Harf really wouldn’t want to have to wear the hijab, much less the niqāb. However, when it comes to Michelle Obama, the burka should be obligatory!
The Dana who thinks that the women in the Obama Administration might have a problem with this (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:43 am71. daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:32 am
You have to remember, when he says not doing something stupid, that means stupid according to him, and that mainly means violence.
Barack Obama may be taking his philosopy from Isaac Asimov. In “the Foundation” he has a character (Salvor Hardin) say:
Obama thinks he is Salvor Hardin (not the Mule)
And he doesn’t think he is incompetent, or doesn’t want to be.
Sammy Finkelman (e806a6) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:43 amThey probably need insane houses more than jobs.
seeRpea (6c0f9a) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:46 amhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvor_Hardin
The last three really sound like they are ideas adopted by Obama.
And Obama, or some advoser of his, does seem to know about Isaac Asimov, and at least somebody thinks he has read some of hios stories:
http://www.pixel51.com/blog/archives/1933 Obama:
Sammy Finkelman (e806a6) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:53 amAfter re-reading the article I cited above, and reading a few more, I’ve come up with a modest proposal.
I believe that Marie Harf is on to something, albeit upside down in her logic. She’s right – 1) we don’t have to kill them all; and, 2) terrorists do seem to come from largely similar educational and economic backgrounds.
Walter Cronanty (f48cd5) — 2/18/2015 @ 10:22 amSince the studies show that most terrorists come from above families that are above, to well-above, average in wealth and education, we should ensure that middle east Muslims spend at least 2-3 generations in complete and abject uneducated squalor. I’ll let Ms. Harf decide how we do that, although I do have a few suggestions.
The last war we won-won was Panama. The one before that Grenada. The one before that WWII. Our armed forces these days are a substitute for welfare and a way to get sex change operations. And our enemies are finding that out.
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 10:28 am“Our armed forces these days are a substitute for welfare and a way to get sex change operations.”
nk – Go f*ck yourself!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 10:41 amits called “nation building” (remember, the thing that bush got castigated for) except these buffoons forgot about the “first burn it to the ground” step
sound awake (a5c9f1) — 2/18/2015 @ 10:45 amThe crux of Marie Harf’s recommendation letter to the State Department from her high school cheerleading coach:
“Marie Harf is silly and ignorant, but she’s got looks, and looks is enough.”
sound awake (a5c9f1) — 2/18/2015 @ 10:47 amI vaguely remember that, when the Iranian hostage crisis took place 35 years and some months ago, one political commentator at the time remarked that had the hostages been soviet citizens instead of Americans, and had they not been released within twenty-four hours, the Soviet premier would have turned Tehran into a crater. Carter did nothing. Obama is Carter, writ large.
Jimpithecus (a3c1bc) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:03 amMr awake wrote:
Alas! ‘Twould that were true, but the lovely Miss Harf earned a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from Indiana University, and a Master of Arts in Foreign Affairs from the University of Virginia. With those degrees, she was hired by the CIA as an analyst on Middle Eastern intelligence, which may well explain just how bad some of our intelligence on the Middle East was.
She was just smart enough and just sophisticated enough to get hired, and good enough to be made the CIA’s spokeswench for awhile. And that speaks to another problem: there really is a liberal bias in the CIA itself, in the career officer field, because so many of them come from Ivy League and other “elite” schools. (The degree from IU wouldn’t have gotten her anywhere, but the one from UVa gets her noticed.) Mouthing all of the right liberal platitudes keeps her going in that career field, and her looks certainly do help.
Then she signs on for the Obama campaign . . . .
The Dana who looked up her curiculum vitae (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:07 amWe simply thank the Lord that Miss Harf went to IU, and not UK; ‘twould be a stain on our school were it otherwise.
The University of Kentucky alumnus Dana (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:09 amOk then, daleyrocks. We’ve been getting our asses kicked almost everywhere we’ve been because ….
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:12 am. . . we have rotten leadership, a society that thinks that war can somehow be sanitary, and politicians who cater to that.
The Army daddy Dana (f6a568) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:14 am. . . we have rotten leadership, a society that thinks that war can somehow be sanitary, and politicians who cater to that.
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:22 am… and who think that the armed forces are a laboratory for social experiment and an equal opportunity/affirmative action/ADA compliant employer.
“Ok then, daleyrocks. We’ve been getting our asses kicked almost everywhere we’ve been because ….”
nk – You tell me Mr. Knowitall? Is it because of the recruits who choose service over welfare or because of stupid ROE or policy decisions from civilian leadership? Go f*ck yourself with a swordfish sideways.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:45 am“We’ve been getting our asses kicked almost everywhere we’ve been because ….”
nk – Where, Gulf War I, No. Iraq II, eventually no. WTF are you talking about?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:47 amForget it, daleyrocks. I’m very well aware of your uniform fetish.
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:49 am“Forget it, daleyrocks. I’m very well aware of your uniform fetish.”
nk – I’;m well aware of your anti-military views which strangely conflict with your overall fascistic philosophy, but insulting our soldiers by calling the military a welfare substitute is crossing the line even for a douchebag like you.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:00 pmit’s hard to make the case that these “armed forces” thingies deliver a return that’s in any way reasonably proportionate to the amount of resources they consume
i’m a healthy skeptic, which is healthy
happyfeet (a037ad) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:01 pmMr. Feets – Lemme know when you get that figured out.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:07 pmThis is the same CIA, remember, that insisted that Valerie Plame could live inside the Beltway, commute from her home everyday to CIA HQ in Mclean VA, and still maintain her cover as a NOC. As in, non-official cover. An agent who had no discernible connection to the CIA.
Except for the daily commute, when she drove back and forth to the CIA from her home.
And then even though she had been back in the US far longer than necessary to make revealing her connection to the CIA no crime at all (how the CIA director himself wasn’t arrested, since he revealed her connection to the CIA when HE ASSIGNED HER A DESK JOB THERE) the CIA insisted she still used her cover on weekend trips to Europe.
A part-time NOC; the government kept her association with the CIA completely concealed. No one could have figured it out unless Scooter Libby talked. Or, err, if somebody followed her to work Monday through Friday.
My head hurts from the cognitive dissonance. But the LHMFM bought it! So they and Harf are perfect for each other.
Is it any wonder world events keep catching us with our pants down. Intel reform would start with taking a wrecking ball to the CIA, bulldozing the place into the ground, then salting the earth.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:10 pmMr. daley i have a pickle his name is gilroy
one day gilroy said hey happy I’m a join one of america’s armed services
and i said you’re a silly pickle
“nevertheless,” said gilroy, and in his voice I heard a determination I had never heard before
and so he applied
but in the end he wasn’t accepted why because he’s a pickle and none of the armed service accept pickles so he got a job down at the jiffy lube
happyfeet (a037ad) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:15 pmMaybe it’s all the pot I smoked sitting around watching Maury Povich collecting those welfare checks, but could you remind me of all those times the US military got its ass handed to it?
Just the dates and places of the battles lost, ships sunk, and planes shot down.
And the USS Cole doesn’t count because the machine gunners who could have fired had to be directed not to fire because they had to take fire first.
So they had to wait until the bomb went off? Well, yes and no. They couldn’t fire at the first boat because it hadn’t fired at them. Once it had blown itself up, putting a huge hole in the ship, then they could fire at the first boat. But it had blown up.
When a second boat approached, according to one of the ships gunners, a chief directed him to turn his gun away because that second boat hadn’t yet fired. So, covered in blood, he had to comply.
Those were Clintoon’s ROE.
Pesonally I wouldn’t have picked Aden as a port to refuel or replenish but nobody listens to us welfare queens. That was Clintoon’s choice, too.
Other than that, nk, refresh my memory about all the defeats the US military suffered.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:18 pmI said won-won, Steve. Did we win-win Korea? Did we win (just one win) Vietnam? Did we win-win Gulf I? Did we win-win Gulf II? Have we won-won Afghanistan? We go in, kick a baby, smash up its playroom, and bug out to nurse our PTSD. Nothing conclusive, nothing to be proud of.
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:32 pmhappyfeet, I found a picture I think you’ll like. Safe for work and very cute. Bottom right. http://imgur.com/7NeYSqk
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:37 pmI actually feel sorry for you, nk. What you’ve written here is a string of pathetic untruths.
Just be happy that people are willing to join the military and face a reality you can’t.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:49 pmAnd what’s this “we” s***? You weren’t there.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:49 pmNeither were nine out of ten of our uniforms.
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 12:53 pmhe’s awesome
happyfeet (a037ad) — 2/18/2015 @ 1:09 pmWell, I guess there’s only enough room in a child’s playroom for about 10% of us, nk.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 1:20 pmOh, gawd. I just heard an excerpt of Obama’s “
Covering-Up forCountering Violent Extremism” valedictory. It turns out Marie Harf is the smart one in the group.Listening to Obama speak kills more brain cells faster than chugging a pint of bathtub gin ever could.
To paraphrase, he said ISIL doesn’t speak for more than a billion Muslims who “reject their ideology.”
Yeah, sure. They reject it. But that wasn’t the really stupid part. He went on to say that ISIL no more represents Islam than a crazed madman killing in the name of God represents Christianity, or Judaism, or Buddhism.
You could tell even over the radio, by the sound of his voice, that he was really pleased with himself for thinking that one up.
Figure the odds; tens of thousands of crazed madmen just happening to run into each other at airports, I guess, and saying to each other, “Are you a crazed mad man? Me too! Let’s see if we can change our tickets from Carneval in Brazil to Turkey and take over Syria and Iraq.”
Yup. We’re just dealing with crazed mad men. Why, it could happen to any religion. We’ll probably be seeing this phenomenon all over the non-Muslim world any day now. Crazed Buddhist mad men taking over parts of Indo-China. Crazed Christian mad men declaring new papal states in South America.
Our preezy. What a genius.
The wronger he is, the further he shoves his head up his own arse.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 4:00 pmNow not only are the victims randomly selected, the crazed mad men who are randomly selecting them just randomly form themselves into groups and could have randomly come from any religion.
There are no patterns here at all, per the Freshman Dorm administration Resident-Assistant-in-Chief.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 4:05 pmI’m sure Ms. Harf thinks all this poor boy needed was an education and a job. Unfortunately, he had both but was too nuanced and left them to join ISIS:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/from-a-private-school-in-cairo-to-isis-killing-fields-in-syria-with-video/ar-BBhII7I
Walter Cronanty (f48cd5) — 2/18/2015 @ 4:14 pmYou know, maybe it isn’t so much that they need jobs. Maybe the poor ISIS terrorists just feel “marginalized” (serial groper Putting-the-Vice-into-Vice-President Sloe Joe Biden’s word) because they never dated a cheer leader in high school.
I think that’s something we could confidently put Marie Harf and Jen Psaki in charge of fixing. They can call up their sorority sisters and maybe do an on-line dating service. We could make a movie about it. “Lethally Blonde.”
As for the rest, it isn’t like we weren’t warned back in 2008.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/2139573/Barack-Obama-aide-Why-Winnie-the-Pooh-should-shape-US-foreign-policy.html
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 4:26 pmDana Perrino said today (in so many words) that Harf really should shut up. Perrino said that if the deputy spox for the U.S. Department of State is herself the story for three days running, there’s “a problem”.
elissa (898575) — 2/18/2015 @ 4:40 pmhey Marie guess what i have in my pocket
why would i have a pickle in my pocket damn girl you dumb
happyfeet (831175) — 2/18/2015 @ 4:45 pmSteve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 4:26 pm
Walter Cronanty (f48cd5) — 2/18/2015 @ 5:01 pmSeeing Jarie Harf and Jen Psaki in burkas dating ISIS guys … Hmmm. That would be quite the mixer.
Good grief I started reading your Telegraph article and had to stop. That’s one thing I hadn’t heard before. And we didn’t get Winnie-the-Pooh, we got Eeyore.
I remembered it because I linked to it here back in 2008. It was a foretaste of the dumba$$ery we were going to be in for.
http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/obama-with-his-national-security-adviser-winnie-the-pooh-t2067.html
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/06/19/the-obamapooh-photoshop-collection/
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 5:13 pmBattle lines being drawn
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 5:28 pmPope dude was right
Obama is wrong
Jen Psaki speakin’ her mind
won’t see what she sees
dumb b*tch has gone totally blind
you better stop! hey what’s that sound?
EVERYBODY LOOK WHAT’S GOIN’ DOWN
what could go wrong:
http://counterjihadreport.com/tag/nabeel-khudairi/
narciso (ee1f88) — 2/18/2015 @ 5:29 pmBarack Obama… the Leaning Tower of Appeasement
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 5:44 pmdid he get the memo:
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/saudi-cleric-the-sun-revolves-around-the-earth/
narciso (ee1f88) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:30 pm“We do not want to believe that anyone elected president would act against the nation’s best interests. But he has.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:37 pmHe stopped calling it the Global War On terrorism.
He tried to close Gitmo, Medal of Honor recipient Dan Inouye stopped him.
He refused to reach a Status of Forces agreement in Iraq.
He outed the killers of Osama bin Laden.
He changed the subject to the Crusades when the Islamic State burned a pilot alive”
http://donsurber.blogspot.com/2015/02/why-obama-doesnt-want-to-win-war.html
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:38 pmFrom narciso’s link:
Gee, I wonder why he would, reportedly, tell or suggest anything of the sort to Muslims.
Hmm. Let me think. Tis a puzzlement.
Oh, I think I know.
http://quran.com/5/51
Depending on the English version “allies” can be “friends.” And if a Muslim “is [one] of them” that means the Muslim is an apostate. And we all know what ISIS does with those.
Somebody needs to b**** slap this Sheikh Yasin, though. He goes to easy on women.
http://quran.com/4/34
According to the Quran men aren’t supposed to wait until the wife disobeys (or rebels, or becomes arrogant, depending upon the English version). That allows women to slip into bad habits. You’re supposed to reprimand her if you merely suspect, or “fear” in this case, that she’s even just thinking about it.
Fun fact: if your wife denies her husband sex he can also starve her. After all men “spend [for maintenance] from their wealth.” What does she think he’s paying for? Chop, chop, baby. Get in that bed right now if you feel like eating sometime soon.
Bonus verse:
http://quran.com/2/223
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:41 pm“They (Coptic Christians) were slain in the knowledge that they could escape their fate by publicly converting to Islam. Of twenty-one captives, it appears twenty-one refused. It is the more remarkable that even little Christian boys captured by the Jihadis in Iraq refused to deny Christ, directly in sight of the butchery that awaited them. Take that in, O we of little faith, in our fey and emasculated culture. This is an aspect of the case that Western journalists overlook — often do not even bother to report — because they find anything but cowardice incomprehensible.”
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:43 pmhttp://www.davidwarrenonline.com/2015/02/17/martyrdom-revolved/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:44 pmI’ve never been one to give much credence to the idea that Obama is a Muslim, but this is interesting:
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2015/02/obama_and_the_muslim_gang_sign.html
Then again, maybe he is just trying to see whether he or his VP can be most “inappropriate”.
hey colonel, who knew we’d be singin’ Buffalo Springfield 50 years later about what their generation hath wrought.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:47 pm#106 hf
Well if asked that question “what do I have in my pocket”, this dunce would probably start panting and have to fan herself… so to speak…
I think employers all over Europe are thanking God, Allah, et al for the grace given in not inadvertantly hiring homocidal maniacs. Lets say unemployment is at a negative number and there are more jobs than there are people 18-72 y/o… so you get the otherwise ISIS decapitation guy to run the vacuum at the old folks home. Next thing you know some old lady’s head is found in the chapel amongst the flowers… but thank God or whoever, for the great news that ISIS has jobs for Europe and US ass****s.
steveg (794291) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:58 pmThey have guys running refineries, oil pumping stations, trucks, excavators, rifles, tanks, and acting as executioners. ISIS has done more for the unemployed in 24 months than Obama has done in 6 years
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:44 pm
Excellent article.
Walter Cronanty (f48cd5) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:06 pmSo, where’s Hillary on this? It’s her mess, you’d think she’d have an opinion on how to clean it up.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:10 pmPractically speaking, do Egypt and Jordan have enough air fire power to drive ISIS to Tunisia?
seeRpea (9e531f) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:19 pmItaly is really worried.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/17/italy-fears-isis-invasion-from-libya.html
elissa (898575) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:21 pmI’ve never been one to give much credence to the idea that Obama is a Muslim, but this is interesting:
I’ll say, once again, that if anything good does come out of the lunacy of leftists like Obama being major enablers to the generally reactionary theology of Islam and its biggest adherents, is that when the doors are opened and “progressives” help Nidal-Hassan types waltz right on in, Western liberals will be among the first in line when the whippings, if not beheadings, begin.
Mark (c160ec) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:21 pmDoc, there are many different kinds of deceit allowed in Islam. The most famous is taqqiyah, which is simply not practicing one’s religion openly. And that would be what Obama is doing, if indeed he is a Muslim.
Then there’s also tauriya, which is to use a word, a phrase, or a gesture in a way that has an obvious meaning knowing your audience will take it as such, but using it in such a way that it actually, secretly means the opposite. The story of King Negus of Abyssinia, who converted to Islam but kept it secret from his Christian people to keep his throne, is perhaps the most famous example of tauriya in Islam.
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/negus.html
The various ways Muslims are allowed to lie to their enemies (and this includes other Muslims) can be summed up as “outwittings.” Every Muslim from childhood is familiar with the concept. Obama would be, whether he is or isn’t a Muslim.
I always thought Obama was practicing tauriya when he said, back in 2008, words to the effect that no nation had ever kept its military supremacy unless it maintained its economic supremacy. Since he was focusing so much on his economic policies that he was promoting as a way to bring America roaring back (but I and most sane people knew would be counterproductive) his fans in the LHMFM and the commentariat said, “See, he wants a strong America.”
That’s not how I took it. Victor David Hanson didn’t either; I recall he wrote a piece about how that was proof positive Obama was going to throw a monkey wrench or two in the economy because, since when has Obama wanted a militarily strong America.
Hows that tauriya working out for everyone?
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:24 pmThanks for the info. I knew a little of the role of deceit in Islam, not to the subtleties you explain.
One thing about Islam which is similar to Christianity, is that the pure form is rare, and is often intermingled with other aspects of the surrounding culture. Obama’s surrounding culture was/is Marxism, economic factors is what determines human behavior and history, which is the soil of the recent nonsense about needing to find jobs and productive behavior to solve extremism. There is no right and wrong, only humans responding to economic factors like rats in a maze, so fix the economic factors in the march of history.
In the meantime, leftists and Islamists are in league against a common enemy.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:45 pmyes, Walter, that one both touched and steeled my heart.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:46 pmand it”s one of the most coherent denunciations of this jackal in the White House I have read.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:48 pmHe’s a Saudi cleric. The last memo he got was from Muhammad in 632 A.D.
It’s interesting; Muslims do believe the Quran is a science book. And Muslims are required to take it literally. There is no room for interpretation if Muhammad has already interpreted the verse. Logically, and as a doctrine of Islam, Muhammad as the recipient of the “revelation” is therefore the foremost authority on it.
So Muslims are required to also believe the earth is flat, there are seven earths below it each separated by a “journey of 500 years” (the same distance that separates the seven heavens) and at the very bottom are a giant fish and a giant bull, the sky is held up by pillars and would crash down on earth if Allah permitted it, the Sun sets in a pool of muddy water and Dul-Qarnayn (reputedly Alexander the Great) went there once, there are people living besides the pool where the sun sets, shooting stars happen when Allah throws a star at a demon who tries to eavesdrop in on heaven, Satan urinates in the ears of believers so they won’t hear the morning call to prayer, Satan can also hide in believers nostrils so when Muslims perform their ablutions to purify themselves for prayer they have to put water up there nose so they can snort Satan out, procreation is due to both men and women ejaculating, the child will look like whoever ejaculates first, …
Is there any wonder no Muslim scientist in the Islamic world has ever won a Nobel Prize for science?
I don’t know if it’s funny or sad, but the vast majority of Muslims (particularly in the west) have no idea of any of this. It isn’t like Islamic religious leaders trumpet this kind of information because they’re not exactly proud of it. But then every once in a while a Saudi cleric or what have you will issue a fatwa that goes viral on YouTube, reminding Muslims that they do have to believe something like the Earth doesn’t rotate. And then they’re shocked to find out that, no kidding, as a Muslim the do have to believe it as an article of faith.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 7:57 pmThey both despise western civilization. Another thing they have in common is they both gots some luv for instituting reins of terror when they take power. Barack Obama doesn’t lie about how ISIS is in fact very Islamic, mainstream Islam, with any more zeal than Walter Duranty lied in his reporting in the NYT to cover for Stalin and the Holodomor. Probably the worst kept secret in the world is the NYT won’t return that Pulitzer because they’re proud of Duranty’s work.
Try to build a monument to the victims of communism; the left won’t let you get away with it.
From Lenin’s Red Terror to the killing fields of Cambodia the left loves communist dictators because of the terror regime. Sean Penn when he visited his friend Hugo Chavez said anyone who called Chavez a dictator should be thrown in prison. I believe he was talking about he US, as that was already happening in Caracas.
https://nyoobserver.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/albright.jpg?w=635&h=416
There really isn’t much difference between living in the caliphate and a NORK gulag.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 8:10 pm* they’re proud of Duranty’s work on behalf of the cause.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 8:11 pmre: Muslims and the Earth not revolving – this gets (or did get) complicated. The Arab world used to in the forefront of what we now call science. Problems came when Arabs started converting to Islam. For at least a few generations , the Arabs who had to deal with the real world went with a line of thinking sort of like:
“Quran says Sun revolves Earth, we as mere peons can not deal with that truth so make up a work-around of that allows us to deal with what we can deal with.”
Arab astronomy and shipping , among other things , don’t work so well with Sun revolving Earth.
Over the centuries the conflict couldn’t be wrapped over, and the Quran with sword won over science.
This really is in contrast with the Church, which didn’t have a problem with accepting Earth revolving but did with how the message was being relayed to the people. (Earth revolving actually made figuring out when their holy days should be scheduled much easier)
seeRpea (9e531f) — 2/18/2015 @ 8:42 pmThat’s way off, seeRpea.
The Arab world had zero accomplishments to speak of before it began its conquest. Which is generally attributed to its conversion to Islam and therefore its zeal to spread its new religion by the sword. I have my doubts.
But it was only after raiding into places like Alexandria with its libraries that it encountered vast troves of knowledge. Naturally, the Arabs wanted to destroy them. The Jews and Christians living there saved what they could (if not for the Arabs, we’d probably have 90% of what was in those libraries instead of 10%). It was only when the Jews and Christians translated what they had from the Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, Syriac, etc., into the Arabic and were able to convince their conquerors that just because something isn’t in the Quran it is still worth knowing that the Islamic world had their brief “golden age.”
Of course, that wasn’t just because of what was going on in North Africa and the M.E. The same thing happened with the Mughals in India. They too conquered civilizations with vast stores of recorded knowledge. They too wanted to destroy it. The locals saved what they could, and the Mughals eventually absorbed some of it.
The prevailing attitude then was if it was worth knowing it was already in the Quran. And if wasn’t in the Quran it wasn’t worth knowing. Burn it. Boko Haram isn’t just the name of a 21st century East African terrorist group. It’s the pre-conquest attitude toward education. Non-Islamic learning really is haram; forbidden or unlawful.
It’s also the post-conquest attitude toward education. The reason why the brief flame of the Islamic “golden age” burned out is because they stopped conquering people who already knew more than they did. That was always how they acquired knowledge. It isn’t like they developed it on their own.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:07 pmWho said that? John Kerry or nk?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:10 pmIt was a joint statement by Chelsea Manning, Bowe Bergdahl and Nidal Hassan.
Our thin red line of heroes, complete with picture: http://nation.foxnews.com/2015/02/17/tattoos-prescription-drugs-obesity-hinder-army-reserves-recruitment-effort
nk (dbc370) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:21 pmhey colonel, who knew we’d be singin’ Buffalo Springfield 50 years later about what their generation hath wrought.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 2/18/2015 @ 6:47 pm
Who knew, indeed, MD. We have seen the enemy and he am us!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:25 pmSteve57, you are letting your animosity get in the way. It was what it was, the Arabs were seafaring before they became Muslims and they were quite good at it. To deny they had any methodologies or ways of doing math and geometry is just plain silly. Their recognition of the usefulness of zero, Algebra and astronomy maps did not come from nowhere.
They did not destroy all libraries they came across, in fact they used the Greek works they found to enhance and improve their methods of critical thinking and trigonometry.
Making them out as barbarians is just as wrong as the Chinese attitude to non-Chinese.
seeRpea (9e531f) — 2/18/2015 @ 9:54 pmNo, they didn’t come from nowhere. They came from somewhere else. You can’t point to any original Arab accomplishments to speak of prior to their conquests. That’s not animosity. That’s just the blunt truth.
For instance while zero wasn’t exclusively an Indian concept, most of the credit for the work has to go there. The same for Algebra. The only reason we use a Arabic derived name for that particular branch of mathematics is because the Islamic world functioned mostly as a conduit. Not as the developer.
I’m not making anything up. The people they conquered left copious records.
The early caliphs, to bring up another example, had Christians and Jews as physicians. Why? because Christians and Jews were the ones who were learned in the medical arts, not the Arabs. Because the Christians and Jews could read the texts, not the Arabs.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 10:10 pmThe Taliban’s attitude toward the Buddhas of Bamiyan isn’t a fiction, or somehow an effect that I produced through my supernatural mental powers by producing hostile vibrations that I wafted toward Southern Asia. It’s real, and it has a source in Islam. It is the same attitude the early conquerors had toward relics of what they call Jahiliyyah. The age of pre-Islamic ignorance. It wasn’t a gentle attitude that led the Muslims to want to preserve anything.
Steve57 (e16ed8) — 2/18/2015 @ 10:17 pmNot everybody wants to be a lawyer.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:21 pm“Our thin red line of heroes, complete with picture”
nk – Sort of proves the error of your comment if you actually read the link, but we already know you are not big on facts when it comes to matters about the military.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/18/2015 @ 11:24 pm