Patterico's Pontifications

2/14/2015

Attack In Copenhagen At The “Art, Blasphemy, And The Freedom Of Expression” Event (UPDATED: Yet Another “Random” Attack in Copenhagen – Near A Synagogue)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:35 am



[guest post by Dana]

At a cafe in Copenhagen which was hosting an event focused on free speech, gunmen shot more than 30 bullets through the cafe’s windows, leaving one person dead. Swedish artist Lars Vilks, who over the years has been threatened because of his 2007 cartoons of Mohammad, was in attendance. Also in attendance was François Zimeray, the French ambassador to Denmark. Both survived the attack.

Helle Merete Brix, one of the event’s organizers, told The Associated Press that Vilks was at the meeting but not injured.

“I saw a masked man running past,” she said. “A couple of police officers were injured.”

“I clearly consider this as an attack on Lars Vilks,” she added, saying she was ushered away with Vilks by one of the Danish police guards that he gets whenever he is in Denmark.

Copenhagen police are saying the suspects were wearing black clothes and masks, and speaking Danish.

Via Hot Air, Danish authorities are already calling this a terrorist attack.

The authorities are still in pursuit of the suspects.

–Dana

UPDATE:

Danish police are reportedly searching for an ‘Arab-looking’ male in connection with the Copenhagen cafe shooting.

According to Danish journalist Morten Frich, the cops are searching for an Arab-looking male, aged 25-30 years old, of athletic stature who is 180cm tall.

He has a “light” skin tone and black hair.

UPDATE 2: Another shooting reported in Copenhagen near a synagogue:

One person was reportedly hit in the head, and two police officers suffered arm and leg injuries. The attacker is believed to have fled.

It is not clear whether the shooting is connected to an earlier attack on a cafe in the city.

“We cannot say anything about the condition of the injured yet,” the Danish police were were quoted as saying by the AFP news agency.

“The perpetrator fled on foot,” they added.

From Danish journalist Tinne Hjersing on Twitter:

1 shot in head, 2 wounded cops Nobody has died No suspects apprehended

UPDATE 3: Danish media have released the name of the alleged suspect who has been shot and killed by the police: Omar Abdel Hamid El-Hussein, age 22.

Further:

Danish police say the gunman believed to have attacked a free-speech debate and a Copenhagen synagogue was 22, born in Denmark and known to them because of past violence.

Police believe the gunman was acting alone.

He was known to them in connection with criminal gangs and had convictions for violent offences and dealing in weapons.

“It was the case that when the suspect was shot and killed during police action, he was armed with pistols,” police commissioner Thorkild Fogde told a news conference.

He also said police had found a weapon which may have been used in the first shooting.

268 Responses to “Attack In Copenhagen At The “Art, Blasphemy, And The Freedom Of Expression” Event (UPDATED: Yet Another “Random” Attack in Copenhagen – Near A Synagogue)”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  2. Let me guess, it was two joos from the Mossad. Right? Right?

    Those bastard jooos. Always causing trouble.

    Then blaming the poor Muslims.

    Either them or the skinheads.

    jakee308 (f0aa61)

  3. jakee308 (f0aa61) — 2/14/2015 @ 9:39 am

    Those violent Amish, actually it was!

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  4. New show on WE TV coming soon is. “Amish With AK’s!”

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  5. Naturally I have a strong suspicion what ideology is behind this. I truly hope I am wrong, but I know where I would place my bets.

    Is it time to start worrying about the “anti-Muslim backlash” that is sure to sweep Denmark?

    JVW (854318)

  6. It’s quite amazing that this could have happened, what with Denmark’s tight gun control laws and all. Clearly those laws are supposed to prevent this from happening. I wonder what went wrong.

    JVW (854318)

  7. More random violence.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  8. Dana i believe your title opposed to say “Random Attack…”

    just for to be accurate

    happyfeet (831175)

  9. It would not surprise me to find out these are radical Danes, zealously protecting tolerance.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  10. yes yes like how Mr. M is saying

    happyfeet (831175)

  11. Jehovah Witnesses With Weapons?

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  12. Methodists with machine guns?

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  13. Mormons with Mac 10’s?

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  14. Unitarians with Uzi’s?

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  15. Mennonites with Mausers.

    redc1c4 (34e91b)

  16. the artist in the article one time he drew a picture of Mr. Prophet Muhammad except instead of making him look like a person he drew him like he was a dog

    lol!

    talking dogs is funny

    Family Guy has a talking dog on it and he’s got a very dry sense of humor but he’s still really funny (if you get all his jokes sometimes they go over my head) but maybe not as funny as prophet muhammad

    happyfeet (831175)

  17. Catholics with carbines.

    JVW (854318)

  18. Presbyterians with pistols.

    JVW (854318)

  19. A truly enlightened Western liberal would consider the shots through the window protected symbolic speech. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_v._Johnson

    nk (dbc370)

  20. Some people say all art is a lie. Remove the glass from the building, bullet holes and all. Frame it, and hang it in a museum. Inscribe a title on a little brass plate, such as, Muhammed Objects (pieces be upon him), and tack it to the frame. Whatever school of art you think originated the concept, though, it ain’t abstract expressionism. That shit is real and it illustrates a metric shit-ton of Truth.

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  21. The cafe is a workplace. An act of violence happened. The victims were clearly hit at random. Ergo, an act of random workplace violence.

    Eliot (fdf2d8)

  22. I’ve updated the post:

    Danish police are reportedly searching for an ‘Arab-looking’ male in connection with the Copenhagen cafe shooting.

    According to Danish journalist Morten Frich, the cops are searching for an Arab-looking male, aged 25-30 years old, of athletic stature who is 180cm tall.

    He has a “light” skin tone and black hair.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  23. Religion of Peace just wants to be left alone, after the shooting of course.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  24. The French ambassador was there and made it out alive. I admire him and his country greatly for showing the backbone to attend. They know what is happening and what is at stake and are acting accordingly.

    Obama, open your eyes.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  25. AG Eric Holder decries Danish police profiling of disadvantaged Persons of Sandy Places…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  26. Hindus with Howitzers?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  27. Patricia,

    The president is very busy this weekend and won’t have time to open his eyes.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  28. Hmmm….another random act of violence.

    Jim (84e66d)

  29. Jehovah’s Witnesses with javelins?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  30. Sounds like the suspect is a Coptic Christian. I mean being Arab and all.

    JVW (854318)

  31. Hunters with handgrenades.

    mg (31009b)

  32. Gardners with Glocks.

    mg (31009b)

  33. Mennonites with missiles.

    mg (31009b)

  34. Is it time to start worrying about the “anti-Muslim backlash” that is sure to sweep Denmark?

    The ethos of we-are-the-world liberalism has grown so ingrained throughout Western civilization, that it will take a heckuva lot to upturn the lunacy of Nidal-Hassanism. So a “backlash” may be no more than many people in Scandinavia proclaiming that a terrorist into the virtues of Mohammed, instead of his being a “crabby man with a gun!,” is a “bad man. A mean, bad man with a gun! Grrr.”

    Mark (c160ec)

  35. Lutherans with lugers.

    mg (31009b)

  36. Seventh Day Adventists with Stinger Missiles.

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  37. Rastafarians with RPGs…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. lutherans with lutefisk

    happyfeet (831175)

  39. Quakers with quesadillas.

    mg (31009b)

  40. You killed them with the lutefisk.
    Good shot, happyfeet

    mg (31009b)

  41. Baha’is with b’ombs

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  42. Baptists with bazookas and bacon.

    mg (31009b)

  43. quakers with savory oats dishes!

    here is the story of the savory side of steel-cut oatmeals

    and here you can learn how to make shrimp n grits except with oatmeals!

    make cornbread not war

    happyfeet (831175)

  44. Baha’i with Berettas.

    felipe (56556d)

  45. Taoists with TOW missiles

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  46. Llammas with lances.

    felipe (56556d)

  47. Dervish with dirks.

    felipe (56556d)

  48. Zoroastrians with Zastava M21s

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  49. Pentecostals with pork.

    mg (31009b)

  50. Yogi’s with Yentls.

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  51. Too bad Copenhagen is not well versed in U.S. Second Amendment rights. Might have made a difference.

    Dirty Old Man (0e8026)

  52. It was Wiccans with Winchesters.

    nk (dbc370)

  53. Copts with Colts?

    nk (dbc370)

  54. Good grief, our leader is gallivanting this weekend!

    Patricia (5fc097)

  55. george will is high like he got into jeb bush’s stash or something

    happyfeet (831175)

  56. Rethuglicans with Rhinos*

    *which are not to be confused with “RINOs”… trust me on this. 😎

    redc1c4 (269d8e)

  57. my new mechanic for chicago, today when i left my car

    he said you got everything? your wallet? your gun?

    and bam i love my new mechanic more than beans

    happyfeet (831175)

  58. How many more attacks need to happen before people realise how dangerous radical Islam is becoming in our today’s world? It’s only gonna get worse. Ban Islam. Outlaw it. Make the adherents either denounce it or be deported to mecca or anywhere in the desert. Every Muslim is a potential terrorist waiting to be activated. The bomb is ticking…

    The Emperor (0af4a6)

  59. Re #21:

    Mrs. PPs43, the retired art teacher, points out that the work of art in question would never make it into a museum. Some liberal corporate head would pay millions for it and hang it behind his desk at corporate headquarters. None of the six or so folks who would ever see it would be unable to grasp the verisimilitude and it would eventually be removed because some muslim lawyer would consider it haram because a muslim had created it and sue to have it removed because the title implied that islam wasn’t a religion of peace.

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  60. Protestants with PPs43s!

    nk (dbc370)

  61. And when they find him, they’ll note that docs in his possession show that he spent considerable time in Syria or Yemen the past few years.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  62. Is it time to start worrying about the “anti-Muslim backlash” that is sure to sweep Denmark?
    JVW (854318) — 2/14/2015 @ 9:59 am

    If past is prologue, the King will come out of the palace wearing full Arab gear, with the Queen in a Burkha….
    and that will be the end of that.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  63. and bam i love my new mechanic more than beans

    but not as much as pickles?

    :-)

    redc1c4 (dab236)

  64. we’ll see Mr. red…

    dude replaced the alternator tricklecharged the battery did an oil change and gave me 2 new rain-x wiperwipers and a windshield treatment all for under $500

    this is where you start to see the cost of living dif between LA and Chicago

    happyfeet (831175)

  65. Scientologists shooting Sigs.

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  66. The Next time you hold one of these Free Speech seminars, make sure you have snipers on surrounding buildings. You know the IslamoNuts will show up and this is a chance to pick a few off. If they’re suicide bombers they could really go out with a bang!

    Mike Giles (ea55d1)

  67. Good point. @Mike Giles.

    The Emperor (0af4a6)

  68. CAIR and other HAMAS front groups who are demanding that Hicks, the Chapel Hill killer, be charged with a hate crime because they know he was motivated by anti-Islam bias will be along shortly to demand no one say that the Copenhagen killer was motivated by Islam.

    Kuffar kills Muslim = everything to do with Islam.

    Muslim kills kuffar = nothing to do with Islam.

    Steve57 (2430ba)

  69. Off course. Islam is a religion of peace. Well, peace after all enemies of Islam are eliminated.

    The Emperor (0af4a6)

  70. Buddhists with bazookas

    Colonel Haiku (0b9b35)

  71. This being Denmark

    Mennonites with Madsens.

    nk (dbc370)

  72. Nuns with guns.

    The Emperor (0af4a6)

  73. Amish with air rifles.

    mg (31009b)

  74. Hare Krishna with airport take over.

    mg (31009b)

  75. Pentecostals with Parabellums.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. Guys, there is a glaring omission on this thread, I think!

    felipe (56556d)

  77. Voodoo with voodoo.

    mg (31009b)

  78. 5 shekels to the first.

    felipe (56556d)

  79. Wesleyans with Walthers.

    (Don’t be a thread-killer, felipe.)

    nk (dbc370)

  80. Or a dreidel, your choice.

    felipe (56556d)

  81. Those violent Amish, actually it was!

    Did they use flintlocks?

    Michael Ejercito (d9a893)

  82. Moi, a tread killer?

    felipe (56556d)

  83. seventh day adventists with six-shooters

    felipe (56556d)

  84. Yanks with tanks

    felipe (56556d)

  85. Atheists with athames.

    felipe (56556d)

  86. Theosophists with Tokarevs.

    nk (dbc370)

  87. climate-deniers with pliers

    felipe (56556d)

  88. Aztecs with AKs.

    nk (dbc370)

  89. Hittites with lead pipes

    felipe (56556d)

  90. Etruscans buskins

    felipe (56556d)

  91. Pagans with Parkers.

    nk (dbc370)

  92. Wiccans with whips

    mg (31009b)

  93. Druids with Derringers

    felipe (56556d)

  94. That’s the spirit, felipe.

    nk (dbc370)

  95. Rasta-toughs with fisticuffs

    felipe (56556d)

  96. Mayans with Mausers.

    nk (dbc370)

  97. I was off the rails. Thanks for the correction in course.

    felipe (56556d)

  98. Looks like this Copenhagen business may not be over just yet.

    RT
    00:38 GMT, Feb 15, 2015

    Breaking news

    Copenhagen synagogue shooting: 1 shot in head, 2 police injured, gunman at large

    Conflicting reports of people injured in gunfire at a synagogue are coming from central Copenhagen, with a nearby railway station evacuated and police deployed to the scene. It comes hours after a deadly shooting in the city at a free speech debate.

    Danish police have confirmed to Reuters that the shooting took place near a synagogue on the Danish capital’s Krystalgade Street. They added that it is too early to say whether the incident was connected to the attack at Krudttonden cultural center in northern Copenhagen, in which one person was killed and three police officers injured.

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  99. Manchus with mad gnus

    felipe (56556d)

  100. It will always be “too soon” with some people. Lord have mercy on us all.

    felipe (56556d)

  101. Confucianism with a catapult.

    mg (31009b)

  102. Shots were fired at a synagogue there too.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  103. Palladists with peashooters.

    mg (31009b)

  104. Luciferianism with landmines.

    mg (31009b)

  105. Gypsys with tramps and thieves.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  106. Brahmins with Brownings.

    nk (dbc370)

  107. Satanists with Saomis.

    nk (dbc370)

  108. *Suomis*

    nk (dbc370)

  109. There’s been another shooting, this time at a synagogue not all that far from the coffee shop. One person hit in the head and two others with lesser wounds. My bet is it’s the same gunman, but no proof of that yet.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1)

  110. Wonder why nobody is shooting back?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  111. Epicureans with explosives

    mg (31009b)

  112. 6. JVW (854318) — 2/14/2015 @ 10:03 am

    It’s quite amazing that this could have happened, what with Denmark’s tight gun control laws and all. Clearly those laws are supposed to prevent this from happening. I wonder what went wrong.

    Vladimir Putin.

    This is an almost exact repeat of what happened in Paris, and in the same order.

    The motive would be to show how dangerous Islamic terrorists are, that Assad should be supported in Syria, and that Russia is not what Europe needs to worry about, and Russia can help.

    And, it’s too exact a repetition.

    Amedy Coulibaly got his guns from a group in Belguim, which was supposed to be Isis. Their superiors were Chechens. That much is known.

    Putin has been known to use Chechen terrorists – that’s how he actually first came to power, and talk about that the reason someone in London was assassinated with polonium some years ago. Some Chechens in syria were suspected of being Russian spies. A Chechen group splintered off from ISIS. Putin is a former KGB colonel. Russian hackers and others are connected to an underworld. Before no no terrorists were not able to smuggle in weapons to Europe or the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (e806a6)

  113. Anglicans with Atomic bombs.

    mg (31009b)

  114. Moravians with muskets.

    mg (31009b)

  115. Maldivians with mortars.

    felipe (56556d)

  116. There’s been another shooting, this time at a synagogue not all that far from the coffee shop. One person hit in the head and two others with lesser wounds. My bet is it’s the same gunman, but no proof of that yet.

    How long ago was this? Have the two suspects really been on the lam in that neighborhood for the last eight hours? That doesn’t speak too well of the Danish police.

    JVW (854318)

  117. Moett with Chandon

    felipe (56556d)

  118. Gnostics with Garands.

    nk (dbc370)

  119. Caterpillars with catapults.

    Gazzer (964803)

  120. Monkeys with machetes.

    Gazzer (964803)

  121. Baboons with b-bombs. (Sorry for the stutter)

    Gazzer (964803)

  122. Chicks with d…hey now!

    Gazzer (964803)

  123. Zorosters (sic) with toasters

    felipe (56556d)

  124. woodchucks with nunchucks

    felipe (56556d)

  125. Philistines with poisoned spleens

    felipe (56556d)

  126. gays with hair dryers

    steveg (794291)

  127. T-rex’s with witch’s hex’s

    felipe (56556d)

  128. Gondoliers with bandoliers

    felipe (56556d)

  129. Biznatches with teh patches

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  130. Covenants with catapults

    steveg (794291)

  131. Lhasa’ns with lassos

    felipe (56556d)

  132. Timbuktu’ans with Milwaukee Bruins.

    felipe (56556d)

  133. “I know sh*t’s bad right now… with all that ISIS sh*t, global warming and runnin’ out of French fries and burrito coverin’s… but I gotta plan… I call it “Strategic Patience”, y’all. ”

    – President Barack Camacho

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  134. Sikhs with six shooters

    steveg (794291)

  135. concubines with landmines

    felipe (56556d)

  136. Missionaries with miquelets.

    nk (dbc370)

  137. Shakers with Sig Sauers…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  138. tea-partiers with tar and feathers

    mg (31009b)

  139. Professor Plum @ the Freedom Rally, with a candlestick.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  140. nascarites with nukes.

    mg (31009b)

  141. Gary seven with that Teri Gar chick.

    felipe (56556d)

  142. Malankarans with matchlocks.

    nk (dbc370)

  143. Quakers with butterchurns

    felipe (56556d)

  144. Mongols with a beef

    steveg (794291)

  145. Hessians with hatchets

    felipe (56556d)

  146. steveg (794291) — 2/14/2015 @ 5:51 pm

    Lol.

    felipe (56556d)

  147. Gurkhas with Gustavs

    steveg (794291)

  148. Eckists with explosives

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  149. Zorosters (sic) with toasters
    felipe (56556d) — 2/14/2015 @ 5:34 pm

    Try: Zoroastrians with zip guns.
    Or: Baptists with Bolo’s.

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  150. Wookie’s with womp rats.

    felipe (56556d)

  151. Several British police forces have questioned newsagents in an attempt to monitor sales of a special edition of Charlie Hebdo magazine following the Paris attacks, the Guardian has learned.

    Free Speech in Britain: police tracking people who bought Charlie Hebdo

    Keeping track of the victims of random violence. Don’t want THOSE GUYS getting away.

    Sorry for the off topic. As an act of contritian;

    Guardians, with other people’s billyclub

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  152. Quakers with Q-tips.

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  153. Bengalis with bangalores

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  154. Martians with a parabolic mirror of unknown composition

    felipe (56556d)

  155. Rastafarians with ray guns.

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  156. Samoans with scimitars

    felipe (56556d)

  157. Mexicans with machetes

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  158. Gojira with flame breath

    felipe (56556d)

  159. Singaporeans with slings

    felipe (56556d)

  160. chopra center peeps with yoga mats.

    mg (31009b)

  161. Nicaraguans with flamin’ hot-assed nachos

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  162. More of that “random” violence again. “Da hood” in Copenhagen is one bad place….

    WarEagle82 (b18ccf)

  163. Stop calling it radical Islam, we must! According to ex-muslim, Ali Sina they are not radical, they are fundamentalists!

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  164. Liberals with limp-wristed, Low-T sissy-slaps

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  165. I’ve updated the post again with report of another ‘random’ attack near a synagogue in Copenhagen:

    One person was reportedly hit in the head, and two police officers suffered arm and leg injuries. The attacker is believed to have fled.

    It is not clear whether the shooting is connected to an earlier attack on a cafe in the city.

    “We cannot say anything about the condition of the injured yet,” the Danish police were were quoted as saying by the AFP news agency.

    “The perpetrator fled on foot,” they added.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  166. …so police have allowed for a headstart.

    felipe (56556d)

  167. Bellichiksters with psi gauges.

    mg (31009b)

  168. Candy Crowley and a pole dance

    felipe (56556d)

  169. Can the Danes shoot back? Or is it a gun free country?

    mg (31009b)

  170. The pole needs an apology Felipe.

    mg (31009b)

  171. Apparently the cops are not allowed to shoot back, but they are “very put out.”

    felipe (56556d)

  172. felipe with the “Gary Seven” reference.

    I tip my hat to you sir!

    Russ from Winterset (1db69d)

  173. And therapy, mg.

    felipe (56556d)

  174. Thank you, wise man of winterset.

    felipe (56556d)

  175. mg,

    According to this report:

    Since 1965 all Danish police officers are trained in, equipped with and must carry a personal police pistol when performing their duties. Until the year 2000 the Danish police used Walther PPK 7.65 mm as the standard pistol, and then the Heckler and Koch 9 mm was introduced. The Heckler and Koch is loaded with hollow-point RUAG Action 3 rounds. Danish police officers are also equipped with a short truncheon, a set of handcuffs and (from 2008) a pepper spray. The Danish police also have semi-automatic Heckler and Koch submachine guns at their disposal. These are available for riot squads or special or high-risk situations as well as other specialized firearms.

    16
    . (1) The police may use force only if necessary and justified and only by such means and to such extent as are reasonable relative to the interest which the police seek to protect. Any assessment of the justifiability of such force must also take into account whether the use of force involves any risk of bodily harm to third parties.
    (2) Force must be used as considerately as possible under the circumstances and so as to minimise any bodily harm.
    17
    . (1) Firearms may only be used:
    (i) to avert an on-going or imminent dangerous assault on a person;
    (ii) to avert other imminent danger to the lives of persons or of such persons incurring grievous bodily harm […]
    (iv) to secure the apprehension of persons who have or are suspected on reasonable grounds of having commenced or committed a dangerous assault on another person unless the risk that such persons will commit another such assault is deemed not to exist;
    (2) Before the police fire shots involving a risk of harm to a person, the person must be informed in so far as possible,first by shouted warnings and then by warning shots, that the police intend to fire if police orders are not observed. It must also be ensured, in so far as possible, that the person is able to observe the order.
    (3) In case of an obvious risk of hitting third parties, shots may only be fired as a last resort […]
    (5) If police shooting has caused harm to a person, the person must immediately be examined by a doct

    Dana (8e74ce)

  176. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2011501/Germany-calls-boycott-Denmark-country-defies-open-borders-agreement-frontier-checks.html

    Denmark said it had been awash with smuggled guns, black money and drugs in recent years and that the measures at the border were aimed at stopping these illegal activities.

    They blame Germany and Sweden. The guns are illegal there, too, I think.

    Sammy Finkelman (e806a6)

  177. A nearby tran station had already been shut down.

    It’s not clear how close the two shooting sites were.

    Sammy Finkelman (e806a6)

  178. 109. There’s been another shooting, this time at a synagogue not all that far from the coffee shop. One person hit in the head and two others with lesser wounds. My bet is it’s the same gunman, but no proof of that yet.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1) — 2/14/2015 @ 5:09 pm

    Oh noes! More randomly selected victims of senseless, non-denominational violence violence committed by some killer with no discernible motive.

    Steve57 (2430ba)

  179. by shouted warnings and then by warning shots, that the police intend to fire if police orders are not observed.

    My warning shot goes to center mass it does! Waste blaster ammo Yoda does not!

    Yoda (bb7c24)

  180. Lutherans with a Lugar

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  181. Lutherans with a Lugar

    Sorry mg. Does this mean I lost?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  182. Thanks Dana.
    ROE stink in Denmark.

    mg (31009b)

  183. Patriots with underinflated balls

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  184. Evangelicals with Enfields.

    nk (dbc370)

  185. Mg,

    I was surprised to find out that the Danish police are armed.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  186. The Danes are pretty explicit that this is terrorism.
    Meanwhile HuffPo seems to have the most detailed account, including a map showing the location of the coffeeshop and synagogue, which do not look terribly close together to me. But I have never been in Denmark. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/14/shooting-copenhagen-synagogue-_n_6685512.html

    kishnevi (adea75)

  187. Dana- I did not expect them to be armed either. But all the rules for engagement only helps the criminal.

    mg (31009b)

  188. More:

    Danish police have said one person has been shot in the head outside a synagogue in Copenhagen as they hunt a ‘lone wolf’ gunman on the run in the city.

    Two policeman have also been shot in the arms and legs close to the city’s Great Synagogue. Locals have been warned to be vigilant and stay indoors after the suspect fled on foot.

    Armed police are now flooding the area and helicopters are circling overhead as the city goes into lockdown.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  189. Papertiger- I know Julian Edelman had his under inflated.

    mg (31009b)

  190. The synagogue, btw, is the Great Synagogue, built in 1833, apparently seat of Denmark’s Chief Rabbi. The website is down now (gee, I wonder why?), but for reference purposes it is: http://www.mosaiske.dk/english/visit-jewish-copenhagen-synagogue.

    The accounts talk of the second shooting happening near the synagogue, not at it. Also two injured there were police. Possibly they fended off an attack directed at the synagogue…or it may have nothing to do with the synagogue.

    kishnevi (adea75)

  191. Catholics with cat o’nine tails.

    mg (31009b)

  192. Mormons with mitt.

    mg (31009b)

  193. Update from Danish news Twitter feed:

    What we know about the #cphshooting
    2 attacks
    2 civilians killed
    5 police officers wounded
    Suspects still at large

    Dana (8e74ce)

  194. Grazers with lasers

    Gazzer (964803)

  195. Puppies with yuppies.

    Gazzer (964803)

  196. Secular humanists with abortifacients.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  197. Sikhs with Icy machine

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  198. Shlubs with clubs.

    Gazzer (964803)

  199. Geezers with tweezers.

    Gazzer (964803)

  200. Gazzer with Tazer?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  201. You betcha!

    Gazzer (964803)

  202. Cat with gat.

    Gazzer (964803)

  203. Kids, kids. Haven’t you had enough fun? We have terrorists on the loose, lives have been lost and the danger is not yet over. Oh well….

    The Emperor (b304c8)

  204. On the surface they may appear to be Muslims, (fasting during Ramadan, pilgrimages to Mecca etc.) but according to our wise leader and other very wise people, they’re just “using” Islam to stop anyone from saying anything negative about Islam. Or something like that.

    Gerald A (6b504a)

  205. If the Danes nicely, we Texans will ask the Texas Rangers to send the Officer that killed a terrorist here, in Austin, with one shot from his revolver at over 100 yards while holding the reins of several horses.

    felipe (56556d)

  206. this guy.

    felipe (56556d)

  207. Sadly, the guy shot in the head in the synagogue has apparently died.

    JVW (854318)

  208. Instaunit: “Before the Danes get on their high horse let’s recall the many Viking atrocities.”

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  209. correction

    Instapundit

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  210. Given how often Vikings targeted churches and monasteries in their raids, the parallel is not as farfetched as it might sound.

    kishnevi (426b6a)

  211. Yes they targeted them for the gold and silver. Not so much for not being Muslim.

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  212. The Viking menace is under control.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  213. We have the Raider Nation to protect us from the Vikings.

    What do you do out there in flyover country? Rely on geography and hope for the best?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  214. We hope the invaders are discouraged by the poor quality of the plunder and slaves they find on the coasts and go home.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  215. Another example of “random workplace violence” by “extremists.”

    Nobody knows nuthin’.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  216. re #49: pork as an anti-muslim weapon is actually effective.
    Years ago there was serious problem in Israel with Arab Muslim Terrorists putting bombs on the public buses they were riding. The Israeli gov’t started open discussions of putting bags of pig blood in the buses so that if a bomb went off the AMT would get pig blood on them (even Ultra-Ultra Religious Orthodox Jews only have problem with eating pork , not anything else about the pig).

    The bus bomb planting stopped.

    seeRpea (aa8044)

  217. @ daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 2/14/2015 @ 9:33 pm

    No worries then.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  218. I’m of course worried about it happening here, but I’m really worried about ISIS catching US soldiers in Iraq. I think they were trying to do that at the Afghan base, and with the ridiculous ROEs, I wonder if the Marines are allowed to fight back at all. Obama simply cannot allow that to happen.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  219. Luthers with Lex.

    Brooks (03c0d6)

  220. Police in Denmark engaged in a gunfight with some perp near a train station, and killed him. Not yet released whether he was the one who killed those people.

    Also, the one hit in the head at the synagogue has died.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1)

  221. i’m glad the bad guy is dead… anyone who *bleeps* up the narrative like this needed to die before there was any further embarrassment to the once great office of the presidency.

    the entire world from Holder’s fiasco in ferguson to the latest nonsensi cal attempt at nuance at a Paris kosher deli and then back to chapel hill where the white extremist turns out to be another part of obama’s base that won’t stop pissing the bed.

    they’ve been feverishly scouring the crime blotters for some hint of tea party hate crimes, but they are only finding their own.
    black students planting nooses, flukistas walking around with matresses fabricating a war on women because there is none etc etc.

    If obama didn’t have the press on his side he’d be a complete laughingstock, but then what makes me think obama could ever grade higher than incomplete at anything

    steveg (794291)

  222. Out here in flyover country, we find that the Packers and the Lions are your best options for Viking supression.

    Russ from Winterset (30a992)

  223. Patricia- roe on my property goes like this-
    Hands up or I will shoot. Screw obama and his posse.

    mg (31009b)

  224. All this for a D*mn cartoon. And there will be more. Many, many, more. In Garland Texas on May 3rd. It’s the 1st annual Muhammad Art Exhibit and Contest, Sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative. Should be interesting. If you’re going to be the area, if you support our 1st Amendment, and if you enjoy the finished products of the creative process, you might want to stop by.

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  225. No, come to my exhibit of “The Secret Gay Life of Sam Houston and Stephen Austin in Pictures and Hentai, Including The Orgy With Bowie, Crockett and Travis”, on that same day. Rated XXX, leave the kids at home.

    nk (dbc370)

  226. It does not help that the West’s response to radical Islam can be summed up by the lyrics of Gee, Officer Krupke

    quasimodo (1e0b87)

  227. Sadly, nk, your exhibit will probably have more visitors and better press.

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  228. Well, it seems they got him.

    Another random act of violence. I do wish those Jews would stop jumping in front of peaceful Muslims just doing some target practice.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  229. They got him, but this is not a war on Islam according to the Prime Minister:

    Prime Minister Helle Thorning-Schmidt of Denmark had earlier on Saturday called the shooting at the Krudttoenden cafe a terrorist attack and said that the nation was on high alert. “We feel certain now that it was a politically motivated attack, and thereby it was a terrorist attack,” Ms. Thorning-Schmidt said.

    Speaking to reporters in Copenhagen on Sunday, according to Danish television station TV2, Ms. Thorning-Schmidt said: “This is not a war between Islam and the West. We will do our best to defend our democracy and Denmark.”

    The Swedish cartoonist, Mr. Vilks, was unharmed in the attack but said that he thought he was the target. “What other motive could there be?” he told the Associated Press.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  230. Speaking to reporters in Copenhagen on Sunday, according to Danish television station TV2, Ms. Thorning-Schmidt said: “This is not a war between Islam and the West. We will do our best to defend our democracy and Denmark.”

    She’s correct. This is not a war between Islam and the West. This is a war between Islam and everybody else. Call it what it is, WWIII.

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  231. these people are totally insane… warning… http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=597_1423922928

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  232. @haiku. Religion of peace.

    The Emperor (359dcf)

  233. I see war coming. It will be a war between true Islam (radical Islam)and the world. But the first casualties of this war will be the so called moderates (non violent Muslims) who refuse to choose a side.

    The Emperor (359dcf)

  234. “This is not a war between Islam and the West…”

    I wouldn’t mind such comments if they were at least paired by an observation that the founder of Islam, Mohammed, was a very vengeful, pro-assassination figurehead, who had people who merely mocked him killed.

    Mark (c160ec)

  235. Why are our people in govt always in a hurry to jump to the defence of Islam once another terror attack like this happens? Yet true Islam teaches violence and death to infidels. Wonder which Koran they are reading. All Islamic terrorists used to be so-called peace loving Muslims until they read the Koran.

    The Emperor (359dcf)

  236. Of course it’s not a war on all of Islam. Unfortunately, we have more to fear from one radical than the great majority.

    I guess the PC answer is we just accept a Pakistan-like level of terrorism in the West. Like Obama termed, like big city crime control. No way!

    Patricia (5fc097)

  237. From this morning’s Chicago Tribune:

    Danish police shot and killed a man early Sunday suspected of carrying out shooting attacks at a free speech event and then at a Copenhagen synagogue, killing a Danish documentary filmmaker and a member of the Scandinavian country’s Jewish community. Five police officers were also wounded in the attacks.

    Jens Madsen, head of the Danish intelligence agency PET, said investigators believe the gunman was inspired by Islamic radicalism.
    The Danish Film Institute said the 55-year-old man killed at the free speech event was documentary filmmaker Finn Noergaard. The institute’s chief Henrik Bo Nielsen said he was shocked and angry to find out Noergaard was gunned down while attending a discussion on art and free speech. Noergaard directed and produced documentaries for Danish television, including the 2004 “Boomerang boy” about an Australian boy’s dreams to become a world boomerang champion and the 2008 “Le Le” about Vietnamese immigrants in Denmark.

    Denmark’s Chief Rabbi, Jair Melchior, identified the Jewish victim as Dan Uzan, 37, a longtime security guard for the 7,000-strong community. He was guarding a building behind the synagogue during a bat mitzvah when he was shot in the head. Two police officers who were there were slightly wounded.

    elissa (397550)

  238. It’s a shame they don’t have a dead Muslim guard to point to in their bid to justify the religion of peace. “Look, they are shooting Muslims too…”

    The Emperor (281638)

  239. I notice that “controversial” is a sort of code word meaning “did something that a primitive thug dissapproved of and issued a death warrant to other primitive thugs over”.

    controversial Swedish cartoonist Lars Vilks

    In our society it is the issuing of death threats that is the illegal act. What is it called when you use public forums to urge others to carry out a murder? It’s a particular criminal act with a name and specific penalties. Can’t think of it.

    I do know that when a Westerner tries to hire someone to kill their significant other the newspapers don’t affix the appalation “controversial” to the target’s name.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  240. Just giving the crime a nice, easy to include in newsprint shorthand name for “somebody kill that guy” doesn’t make the crime go away. At least it shouldn’t.

    Calling it fatwas doesn’t convey immunity on the crook, but it seems like the authorities and media want it to.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  241. Chimperor… have your politics changed since your daze as a lefty? If so, what caused the change, Your Flatulence?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  242. PPs43 (6fdef4) — 2/15/2015 @ 7:58 am

    This is a war between Islam and everybody else.

    They don’t seem to be doing anything, or talking about doing anything, in China or Russia (Chenya excepted maybe. China keeps accusing people in what used to be called Sinkiang oof being connected)

    Sammy Finkelman (e806a6)

  243. I noticed that too papertiger. He is only “controversial” to the enemy.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  244. I’ve updated the post for the third time:

    Danish media have released the name of the alleged suspect who has been shot and killed by the police: Omar Abdel Hamid El-Hussein, age 22.

    Further:

    Danish police say the gunman believed to have attacked a free-speech debate and a Copenhagen synagogue was 22, born in Denmark and known to them because of past violence.

    Police believe the gunman was acting alone.

    He was known to them in connection with criminal gangs and had convictions for violent offences and dealing in weapons.

    “It was the case that when the suspect was shot and killed during police action, he was armed with pistols,” police commissioner Thorkild Fogde told a news conference.

    He also said police had found a weapon which may have been used in the first shooting.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  245. @haiku, “have your politics changed..”. Really?

    The Emperor (64d34d)

  246. the alleged suspect who has been shot and killed by the police: Omar Abdel Hamid El-Hussein, age 22.

    Obviously, a natural born Dane with centuries of Danish family connections, to mystify all as to why he might do such a thing… Inquiring minds want to know!!

    Daneland Uber Alles!!

    IGotBupkis, "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses." (225d0d)

  247. nk
    Have your art show on March 27th, which I believe is the date when Santa Anna executed the Texans who surrendered at Goliad. You won’t get shot, but your art might.

    Muslims need to figure out that cartoons with a dogs head on their prophet are only powerful when they react.
    The best response is *yawn*, but their religion does not allow for yawning. Their religion seems to demand a brutal response to blasphemy or else they are seen as complicit and subject to death themselves.

    When Christians are subjected to things said to be outrageous to God, we have an example of how God handled things directly through the Christ part of the triune God. The Passion of the Christ involved a long humiliating beatdown. Peter tried to intervene beforehand, cuts off the ear of a Centurion and Christ says no and heals the Centurion. The message from God is: No need for violence over insults and injury to me, I’m God and I’ve got this.
    That is a message to have faith and hope.

    The message from Allah and the Prophet seem to be: You must avenge all perceived insults with gruesome death.
    That is a message of desolation.
    I don’t see the path Islam can follow to pull itself into having faith that Allah has got these insults and blasphemers without wanting or needing human intervention. I don’t see a path out of the Dark Ages as long as even moderate Muslims have to look down, shuffle their feet and say “yeah it is true, that you are supposed to be killed for that, but I don’t want to be the one to do it… fund it maybe, but do it directly… ummm not at this time”

    steveg (794291)

  248. one time i saw this cartoon of Jesus where he was all satirized and stuff and then i ate some soup but i forget what kind it was

    happyfeet (831175)

  249. hf
    exactly

    On a different note, it seem to me like the Danes shouln’t rush their troops in via large buses like that unless they are prepared to deal with car bombers.
    ISIS loves to further the festivities with complex attacks involving suicide bombers and car bombs and it is only a matter of time before they start sending bomb makers back to their European country of origin who are welcomed back under lame excuses like “I ran out of Nicorette gum”

    steveg (794291)

  250. Allah probably can’t stand up for himself, it seems. Yet the Christian God says clearly not to avenge ourselves because “vengeance is Mine says the Lord”. But Allah needs help in punishing those who draw funny pictures of him. Stark difference.

    The Emperor (64d34d)

  251. 232. Why are our people in govt always in a hurry to jump to the defence of Islam once another terror attack like this happens? Yet true Islam teaches violence and death to infidels. Wonder which Koran they are reading. All Islamic terrorists used to be so-called peace loving Muslims until they read the Koran.

    The Emperor (359dcf) — 2/15/2015 @ 9:24 am

    The short answer is that these leaders are just as hostile to western civilization as the Muslims. Some of them actually believe what they’re saying when they defend Islam as a religion of peace. Because, like those in the Obama administration, they have Muslim terrorist apologists and propagandists from the Muslim Brotherhood/Saudi government front groups like Muslim Student Association, the Institute for Muslim Minority Affairs, CAIR, etc., advising them. And lying to the kuffar about the true nature of Islam is viewed as a noble thing to do.

    Others, similarly, know better but view their defense of Islam as a “noble lie.” Because what the terrorists may be doing is bad, but we’re worse.

    Also, be careful with the Quran argument. For two reasons. First, Muslim propagandists will argue that you have to read the Quran in Arabic to understand its meaning. This goes over well with the morons in the media. But it’s laughable because the vast majority of Muslims in the world don’t speak or understand Arabic. Yet they’re required to pray in Arabic. So they learn their prayers phonetically. So the the Quran has been transliterated from the Arabic into just about every language on earth so that Muslims can understand what the prayers they’re reciting in Arabic mean. Some of these transliterations are approved by religious authorities, including Al Azhar. So if you have one of those versions you can simply ask the objector, “Are you a higher religious authority than Al Azhar university or the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia?”

    Second, they’ll say you’re quoting the Quran out of context. And in a way they’ll be right, because the Quran provides on context. When you read it you’ll find it has no rhyme or reason to it. It’s not in chronological order, it’s not ordered by topic, it’s just a jumble. Often, even inside the same Surah, it will be discussing one topic, then jump to another with no transition whatsoever. The closest thing to any logical order is that it generally goes from the longest chapter (surah) to the shortest. But not entirely consistently.

    That’s why you really have to argue from the Sunnah. After all, in Arabic Sunnis will call themselves Ahlus Sunnah wal Ja’maah. The adherents of the Sunnah and the congregation. It’s where the name Sunni comes from.

    The Sunnah consists of the Ahadith (the lessons and example of Muhammad) and the Sirah (biography of Muhammad) literature.

    In early Islamic history the Sirah was most important. But after a couple of centuries certain Muslim “scholars” compiled the Ahadith and that’s primarily what Sunnis rely on now. Which is fortunate because the Sirah isn’t available online.

    The Ahadith is; I’ll link to one site when I give a specific example later. What’s nice about arguing from the Ahadith is that Muslims can’t make the same objection about having to read it in the Arabic (bogus in any case), and that Sunnis have to accept it as authoritative as the Quran. The first two collections are the two Sahihs. Sahih means authentic or genuine. Those collections of hadith are on par with the Quran in their entirety. The other collections are slightly less authoritative because they include hadith literature which is on shakier ground.

    For instance, recently we had Hamas front group propagandists and our Islamic-Theologian-in-Chief Prom Queen lying to our faces how it’s somehow unislamic to kill people over cartoons that insult Muhammad. Really? If we turn to Sunan abu Dawud’s collection of hadith literature (the third most reliable after the two Sahih’s we find this in the Book of Prescribed Punishments:

    http://www.sunnah.com/abudawud/40

    (2) Chapter: The ruling regarding one who reviles the prophet (pbuh)

    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

    A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (ﷺ) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (ﷺ) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (ﷺ) was informed about it.

    He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

    He sat before the Prophet (ﷺ) and said: Messenger of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

    Thereupon the Prophet (ﷺ) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

    Grade : Sahih (Al-Albani)

    So that hadith is sahih or genuine. It’s just as authoritative as the Quran. So the approved punishment for insulting Muhammad is death.

    But the next hadith is this:

    Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

    A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (ﷺ) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood

    Grade : Da’if in chain (Al-Albani)

    Da’if means questionable. It lacks something in the chain of transmission going back to Muhammad. Hadith scholars include it because of the possibility that later those problems may be resolved. It can’t be dismissed entirely out of hand, but it’s the weakest of the Ahadith that can be included (hasan, or good, is a mid-grade hadith).

    But one sahih hadith is enough to establish that Muhammad himself approved of killing people who insult him.

    Shias have their own versions of the Ahadith as well as literature from their divinely inspired Imams that’s considered just as authoritative as the Quran, but that gets too complicated.

    If you argue about the nature of Islam and what it teaches, never argue just from the Quran.

    Steve57 (e8b1a9)

  252. A thorough exposé you did. Very helpful I must say in throwing further light on the subject. Great job, Steve.

    The Emperor (64d34d)

  253. 244. …The message from Allah and the Prophet seem to be: You must avenge all perceived insults with gruesome death.

    That is a message of desolation…

    There is nothing “seem to be” about it. That is the explicit message of Islam. Hence my lengthy post @248 regarding the Sunnah. Which raises an interesting point; you can insult Allah, and Muslims won’t go bats**t crazy. You can insult any other prophet, and they won’t go insane. Muslims are theoretically required to follow all the prophets, and Muhammad is theoretically just a man, and just another prophet. But despite their denials, it’s clear when you read the Quran and the Ahadith the Muslims deify Muhammad. They even pray directly to him, as required by Allah. Hence the reaction. Hence the fact that early western observers of Islam used to call its adherents Mohammadens.

    …I don’t see the path Islam can follow to pull itself into having faith that Allah has got these insults and blasphemers without wanting or needing human intervention. I don’t see a path out of the Dark Ages as long as even moderate Muslims have to look down, shuffle their feet and say “yeah it is true, that you are supposed to be killed for that, but I don’t want to be the one to do it… fund it maybe, but do it directly… ummm not at this time”

    steveg (794291) — 2/15/2015 @ 1:22 pm

    Neither do I. I know westernized Muslims who try to work their way out of the conundrum by rejecting the Sunnah and claim to be “Quran only” Muslims. That way they can apply their own, less violent interpretation to the Quran. The problem is, Islam headed them off at the pass centuries ago. That’s heresy. All Muslim authorities, Sunni and Shia, agree. You have to follow the example of Muhammad or you’re an apostate. And the Quran doesn’t support that, either, no matter how many times it claims to be complete and clear.

    http://quran.com

    3:31

    Say, [O Muhammad], “If you should love Allah , then follow me, [so] Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

    That’s a purported command from Allah to Muhammad, telling him what to tell his followers, in those exact words.

    4:64

    And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah . And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.

    There is no forgiveness of sins in Islam except through Muhammad. Even now; that’s one reason Muslims pray to Muhammad.

    4:65

    But no, by your Lord, they will not [truly] believe until they make you, [O Muhammad], judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full, willing] submission.

    Islam, as is often noted, doesn’t mean peace but submission. And a Muslim is one who submits absolutely and without reservation. But to whom? Allah? No, to Muhammad.

    Even now, Muslims have to make Muhammad the judge in all things. But he’s been dead for 1400 years or so.

    Just like you can’t know how to follow Muhammad without the Sunnah (verse 3:31) you can’t know what judgements Muhammad made without the Sunnah. And if you follow the Sunnah of Muhammad (the well-trodden or clear path of Muhammad) then you must wage jihad. And there’s no other way to be a Muslim.

    A moderate Muslim who doesn’t want to be the one to kill to avenge the prophet or to wage jihad is in fact no Muslim at all.

    2:216

    Fighting has been enjoined upon you while it is hateful to you. But perhaps you hate a thing and it is good for you; and perhaps you love a thing and it is bad for you. And Allah Knows, while you know not.

    Steve57 (e8b1a9)

  254. 249. A thorough exposé you did. Very helpful I must say in throwing further light on the subject. Great job, Steve.

    The Emperor (64d34d) — 2/15/2015 @ 2:48 pm

    Thanks. It shouldn’t be surprising. When I graduated from college I had enough credits in Islamic studies to double major in poli sci and religious studies (I was lazy, and since a lot of my poli sci classes concerned the M.E. and the varous ‘stans that formed the then-Soviet Union’s southern tier I could use the same term papers twice). I declined the offer from my Islamic studies professors. Then I spent the next 20 years in the Navy and really only dealt with two problems. North Korea and violence in the Islamic world. Iran, Iraq, and Somalia.

    So who would have thought? I actually did learn something useful in college. And added to my base of knowledge out of sheer necessity.

    Steve57 (e8b1a9)

  255. Yea right. “You hate a thing while it’s good for you.” They hate watching or participating in beheading but it’s good for them. They just don’t know it yet.

    The Emperor (64d34d)

  256. No knowledge is a waste. We need more people like you on this blog to give us an educated view on this.

    The Emperor (64d34d)

  257. I think someone upthread noted that 20 some Coptics were beheaded in Libya yesterday?
    I saw the background photo and saw it was done at the beach. So if you think about it, it is kinda like when a surfer dies and everyone paddles out in remembrance, gets in a circle and sprinkles flower petals and other stuff in the water in the water and passes him off to the gods. Except for the beheading thing I mean

    steveg (794291)

  258. As long as we’re quoting religious verses, I’d like the Marines at Ayn al-Asad to use a bull-horn to convey this sentiment in Arabic just before opening up on the ISIS boys with multiple quad Ma Deuces and Specter gunships:

    Ezekiel 25:17 (The Pulp Fiction version)

    “The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness. For he is truly his brother’s keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know I am the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon you.”

    (Yeah, yeah, I know. ROE and all that. But it’s coming down to this at a fast gallop.)

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  259. Well, yes, but I wasn’t quoting verses of the Quran or from the Sunnah for inspirational or devotional purposes but “know your enemy” reasons. And I’d have to lump those western leaders who are lying about someone hijacking Islam. No one is hijacking Islam.

    And to provide sources. Not the propaganda sources from MB front groups, which is designed to fool the Kuffar, but the sources Muslims themselves use.

    Here’s another good primer on the Islamic terror threat.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhZe7eZK4dw

    Stephen Coughlin, Part 1: Lectures on National Security & Counterterror Analysis (Introduction)

    If I recall correctly it has six parts and is about six hours in total. It’s worth watching.

    I go further than Coughlin, in that I don’t know of any mainstream understanding of Islam that’s different from the way the jihadists understand it. I only qualified for an undergraduate degree in Islamic studies. But I winded up years ago with the same understanding of of Islam as the leader of ISIS who has/had a PhD in it. Which is the same understanding as the Iranian Mullahs. Which is the same understanding as all four of the major Sunni schools of Sharia. Which is shared by the Jafari school (Twelver shiism, i.e. Iran) of Sharia, which the Sunni schools recognize as a valid source of Sharia.

    I could go on, but the Muslim theologians and jurists have all their doo-doo swept into one nice neat little pile. All roads lead to the same conclusion. It’s the Muslims who have some other, peaceful understanding of Islam who don’t know what they’re talking about.

    Which is understandable. In the west Muslim religious leaders (who do know what they’re talking about) who mislead and deceive their followers as much as their as much as they mislead and deceive unbelievers. Until they reach critical mass.

    Steve57 (e8b1a9)

  260. Oh, my quote was very definitely for inspirational purposes, even if it wasn’t exactly scripture!

    PPs43 (6fdef4)

  261. FYI, I didn’t quote anything I consider scripture, either.

    Steve57 (e8b1a9)

  262. did you have to learn Arabic, for the coursework, and how hard was it,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  263. It’s the Muslims who have some other, peaceful understanding of Islam who don’t know what they’re talking about.

    Nurtured by misguided, naive people like George W Bush and his “religion of peace” statement. Or the type of politically-correct nonsense that, in some ways, is a bigger danger to this nation and the Western World than the Islamicists themselves.

    Mea culpa, btw, since I myself didn’t realize just how ruthless and vicious Islam’s own founder was until not too many years ago.

    Mark (c160ec)

  264. 264. did you have to learn Arabic, for the coursework, and how hard was it,
    narciso (ee1f88) — 2/15/2015 @ 7:28 pm

    No, because the idea that you have to learn Arabic to study the meaning of the Quran is a canard. It’s a ridiculous objection that you only hear from Muslims when you’re actually telling the truth about Islam.

    If you’re agreeing with them about what they’re telling you about the Quran, in English, then it’s not a problem that you don’t read, speak, or understand Arabic. Then, it’s perfectly possible to explain the Quran in languages besides Arabic. That’s how all Islamic religious instruction in countries outside of Arabia is conducted. And 80% of Muslims do not understand Arabic, spoken or written.

    But if you start citing the Quran and noting the actual nature of the religion, making people uncomfortable, then all of a sudden Arabic is the one language that can’t be translated into any other language.

    Then there’s another little problem. The Quran isn’t written in modern Arabic. It’s written in 7th-8th century “classical” Arabic (actually there’s good reason to believe much of it wasn’t written in Arabic at all, and that much was written later).

    So of the 20% of Muslims who do speak various dialects of Arabic, they don’t speak that dialect of Arabic. Really, only scholars do.

    But if I did have to learn Arabic I wouldn’t have taken the Islamic studies courses. Arabic is a Defense Language Institute Category 4 language. That requires 88 weeks/2200 hours of classroom training and a year of in-country study. It’s the only language category that requires in-country study.

    Categories 2 and 3 are grouped together in that they only require half the classroom training time as category 4.

    Category 1 only requires 23-24 weeks/575-600 hours of classroom training.

    I did end up learning Japanese, which is a category 4 language. And in two years time, which is the same amount of time had I gone through the DLI program. But I was stationed ashore in Japan so I had the advantage of immersion training. And I transferred into a billet coded for a DLI graduate (I took the Defense Language Proficiency Test and I scored on par with DLI graduates). But both I and the DLI grads still needed interpreters when we met to work with our Japanese counterparts because while we had working proficiency and were perfectly fine in a social setting we were no where near fluent.

    That’s how hard Arabic would have been.

    Steve57 (e8b1a9)

  265. Surat Yūsuf 12:1-2:

    Alif, Lam, Ra. These are the verses of the clear Book. Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur’an that you might understand.

    The Quran proclaims itself in several places to be written in Arabic. I can’t read the Old (Septuagint) or New Testaments in Greek, but I’m positive at no time do either proclaim themselves to be written in Greek. It’s self-evident.

    But from what I understand from people who have studied the manuscript evidence, the Quran contains a lot of text that wasn’t originally written in Arabic. And in fact has been poorly transliterated into Arabic. Which is why the authors of the Quran had to keep insisting on the Arabic nature of the Quran. Because it’s also self-evident…

    that it’s not.

    Steve57 (f51145)


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