Patterico's Pontifications

1/18/2015

Empowering Middle School Students…With Canned Food

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:03 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Public schools in America. I thought nothing coming out of them could surprise me, but then I read about this. In Alabama, the actions of one middle school appeared so ridiculous that even Snopes was compelled to confirm the veracity of the story.

As reported:

In a letter Friday, W.F. Burns Middle School Principal Priscella Holley asked parents to have each student bring an 8-ounce canned item.

We realize at first this may seem odd; however, it is a practice that would catch an intruder off guard,” she wrote in the letter, published by TV station WHNT in Huntsville.

“The canned food item could stun the intruder or even knock him out until the police arrive,” Holley wrote. “The canned food item will give the students a sense of empowerment to protect themselves and will make them feel secure in case an intruder enters their classroom.”

When asked about the canned food empowerment, Superintendent Kelli Hodge explained:

This plan is the result of an active shooter school training program called ALICE: Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Counter, and Evacuate.

Using cans or other items as weapons would be a last resort for students unable to evacuate, Hodge told the AP.

Teachers are taught to barricade classroom doors if an intruder is in the school, but if that fails, the cans and items such as textbooks could be used, she said.

“If somebody is going to force their way through, then as the last resort you would start throwing any objects you could get your hands on,” Hodge said.

Asked whether throwing cans of food could make a student a target, Hodge said they would already be a target at that point.

“If it comes to the situation that they are forced to do that, then they are a target because they’ve not been able to evacuate,” she said.

From the ALICE website:

The web site for the ALICE Training Institute explains the program was created after the Columbine High School shootings in 1999 when a police officer and his wife, a school principal, began to look into active shooter protocols for schools and found recommendations to protect staff and students between a 911 call and the arrival of police officers were scant.

Further:

The purpose of ALICE (Alert, Lockdown, Inform, Counter, Evacuate) training is to prepare individuals to handle the threat of an Active Shooter. ALICE teaches individuals to participate in their own survival, while leading others to safety. Though no one can guarantee success in this type of situation, this new set of skills will greatly increase the odds of survival should anyone face this form of disaster.

So, if and when an armed intruder makes his way into the classrooms at W.F. Burns Middle School or other schools that have undergone ALICE Training, he better look out. Those flying cans of food just might find their target.

Sigh. This is what public schools have come to.

–Dana

94 Responses to “Empowering Middle School Students…With Canned Food”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  2. You can have my can of cream of chicken soup when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

    gahrie (12cc0f)

  3. This is the greatest advancement in the history of individual empowerment since the gun-grabbers in Colorado advised women instead of carrying firearms they’d be better off vomiting or peeing all over themselves to counter a rape attempt.

    What wonders will our new overlords think up next?

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  4. I’ve heard of whirled peas, but hurled peas?

    Gazzer (c44509)

  5. ok kids throw one can of regular corn and one can of creamed corn then throw a stick of butter and a cup of sour cream then when he’s down sprinkle on a box of jiffy corn bread mix and bake at 350 for 45 minutes or so then sprinkle on some cheese and bake for 5 more minutes!

    Paula calls it Paula casserole but I call it Newtown casserole you can call it whatever you want

    just don’t call it late for dinner!

    happyfeet (831175)

  6. Canned food has lots of sodium. Even if there were merit to the idea of throwing canned food at active shooters, the FDA inspectors Uncle Sugar has started sending in to schools to inspect the edibles kids are bringing from home would never allow it. That canned food would violate Queen Michelle’s national nutritional guidelines.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  7. Books would work even better. But I guess the idea of books in a school is rather unrealistic.

    snarky kishnevi (3719b7)

  8. If this school is saying that the students should be armed, should have weapons handy just in case there is an armed intruder, then it has already crossed the threshold into saying that students, and teachers, should be able to resist. Obviously, if the ability to resist is valued, then the most efficient type of resistance should be more valued . . . and that has to mean having teachers having and trained in using firearms.

    The Dana who sees the obvious (1b79fa)

  9. The speed of a flying can of food versus a flying bullet…

    Dana (8e74ce)

  10. you know what else is good is iced angel food cake, but not for throwing

    happyfeet (831175)

  11. Fruitcake would work, wouldn’t it, Mr. Feets?

    kishnevi (3719b7)

  12. go ask alice

    happyfeet (831175)

  13. no way do i want a whole school of youngsters armed with guns. And this is better than stones. Thrown cans of veggies can do quite a bit of damage, not so sure good idea with a bunch of 8 year olds.

    seeRpea (3cc998)

  14. I hope the parents who comply don’t waste their money on organics. Regular or even generic canned food should do just fine, wouldn’t you think?

    elissa (dc39ef)

  15. Somebody should prolly force Principal Holley and Supt. Hodge to watch the movie “Blackboard Jungle” before teachers start getting carted off in ambulances.

    elissa (dc39ef)

  16. This is in Alabama, y’all! We’re canned beets all the way down…

    Beasts of England (15487b)

  17. What are they supposed to do if the Army is not there to protect them?

    Michael Ejercito (45f52b)

  18. 8. …the most efficient type of resistance should be more valued . . . and that has to mean having teachers having and trained in using firearms.

    The Dana who sees the obvious (1b79fa) — 1/18/2015 @ 5:29 pm

    No, no, no! Projectile vomiting works better than firearms. The self-defense experts in Colorado told women that when the Dems in that state passed sweeping gun control legislation after Newton.

    You clearly aren’t aware of the cutting edge scholarship in the field, Dana.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  19. OT but food related. We bought a spiraliser last week and it is awesome. You can make all sorts of tasty pasta like dishes with veggies like turnips and sweet potatoes. You can even twirl it on your fork like real sketti.

    Gazzer (c44509)

  20. @ The Dana who sees the obvious:

    Obviously, if the ability to resist is valued, then the most efficient type of resistance should be more valued . . . and that has to mean having teachers having and trained in using firearms.


    Rather than the risking small children (or even teens) getting their hands on a teacher’s gun in the classroom, I would rather see schools hire armed security officers. While some states already have armed school personnel, including teachers, there are some states where children grow up with guns (the Dakotas, Texas, etc) and other states where they don’t. I think that familiarity breeds respect for the weapon. If there hasn’t been that exposure and the state is a blue anti-gun state, the combination of fear and ignorance would be a huge problem to overcome. Of course, armed school personnel would never fly in NY or California.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  21. http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/20/justice/colorado-rape-prevention-guidelines/index.html

    …The list of 10 tips by the University of Colorado at Colorado Springs was billed as “last resort” options to deter a sexual assault.

    “Tell your attacker that you have a disease or are menstruating,” read one tip.

    “Vomiting or urinating may also convince the attacker to leave you alone,” read another…

    The people who came up with this list are true bada$$es cuz they have doctorates in Sociology and Medieval French Literature and Cinema and stuff. I used to think guns were the best tools for self-defense, but everybody knows the nastiest street-fighters and bar room brawlers come from the mean streets of places like Vassar or Oberlin or Yale.

    So when they tell me these things have made firearms obsolete I listen to them. And you should, too, Dana.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  22. Of course, armed school personnel would never fly in NY or California. Sadly. for the kids involved, it is natural selection.

    Gazzer (c44509)

  23. The Dana who sees the obvious, I mean. That Dana.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  24. Taking the idea seriously, wouldn’t baseballs be the perfect defensive throwing item? They’re meant for throwing, and some people are even good at it.

    LTEC (f3a329)

  25. There’s something about this whole effort that strikes me as wrong-headed.

    If Charlie Hebdo brought that shooting down on themselves by offending Muslims with their cartoons, aren’t students also really to blame for offending school shooters by by going to school?

    I’m just doing my best to think like a liberal. And only a liberal could have come up with this canned food idea. But if I grasp the essence of liberal logic from recent events, if you do anything to provoke angry, unhinged lunatics then its your own damned fault about the consequences when nature runs its course.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  26. Spam in a tube sock has to give the terrorists pause… hooray America!

    steveg (794291)

  27. that’s why I referenced Python, earlier in the thread/

    narciso (ee1f88)

  28. i was talking about guns in the classroom with neighbors who teach. They stated they would never want the risk. They mentioned that they have friends who wear shoulder holsters in the class and when I asked about the risk of a kiddo pulling the trigger or pulling gun out of holster, they said the guns had a fingerprint sensor and if the print didn’t match, it wouldn’t fire. They all said they felt that having primary level students poses more problems as they tend to be affectionate and give hugs and lean on teachers when they’re sitting, etc. That, and their natural curiosity would cause more fear for their safety and the teachers’ liability than the remote possibility of an intruder.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  29. Won’t Michelle O have to approve the contents and nutritional value of each can?

    And wouldn’t it be “cruel and unusual” to hurl a can full of high fructose corn syrup and preservatives at an intruder?

    And if it is Muslim, would the students need pork-free cans to remain “culturally sensitive?”

    It almost looks like they haven’t fully thought through this plan.

    I would expect this in Tuscaloosa, but not in Huntsville…

    WarEagle82 (b18ccf)

  30. pretty sure that possession of the cans for self-defense would violate the “weapons free” zone of the school, and leave everyone eligible for arrest, and the principal for conspiracy as well, for proposing the idea (to use a term loosely)

    a proposal so stupid, only a professional “educator” could have proposed it.

    redc1c4 (cf3b04)

  31. Hey, at least the kids will have something to eat when they can’t stomach the cafeteria food. Of course they will be expelled and the police called if they have a can opener…

    Roy in Nipomo (8c3b61)

  32. Visualize hurled peas, Gazzer.

    nk (dbc370)

  33. All they are saying is give peas a chance.

    nk (dbc370)

  34. What is the penalty for carrying concealed canned goods in a school zone?

    This could really lower the graduation rate in this county.

    WarEagle82 (b18ccf)

  35. Stole both from SayUncle’s thread on this. This was my contribution there. A rubber band powered, magazine fed, repeating, pump action pencil shooter. And it would make a good craft project too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYJ2zj1SB5Y

    nk (dbc370)

  36. I am hoping that most of the comments are in jest. What can be wrong about teaching our kids that there is nothing wrong about fighting back, by whatever means might be available. That may cause some problems with other policies where kids who are attacked by other kids fight back only to be punished by the school as if they started the fight.

    I see where some security “professionals” recommend keeping a can of wasp spray handy to ward off direct attacks as it has greater range and effectiveness that OC or mace. I have always advised women (I am a security “amateur”) keep a can of hair spray available (aerosol); anyone who has been exposed to the aerosolized Aqua-net knows what I mean.

    We have seen how effective cowering under a table in the library can be when confronted by a shooter. There is nothing wrong with fighting back… Don’t start fights, but feel free to end them.

    Gramps, the original (9e1415)

  37. I suppose a medium to heavy book would do as well as a can of food, but to Principal Priscella Holley this is an indignity and disrespectful use that a book should not be subjected to.

    Or is it the shape and the size of the can? Small enough to be held in one hand, but heavy and bulky enough to be thrown with sufficient force to knock out a bad guy?

    Should this be studied, and the ideal shape and size of the object arrived at? Should students get some training in its use

    Why the assumption that this will only be used in cases of necessity, and never to bully and hurt other children? Because it is a departure from its normal use and you would only think of it when the situation demanded it? Would that still be the case if students were deliberately carrying a can of food for no other? Or would that use in self defense is normative and prescribed help ensure that that would be the only use of the can of food?

    Maybe cans of food, or bricks, should be positioned within the school at strategic places, maybe even hidden, or disguised as part of the architecture, with it not being obvious to strangers that they are detachable?

    This shouldn’t be entirely derided – there might be something to this sort of thing. You could also create elevated platforms where people could run to with pre-positioned bricks or maybe something better.

    Sammy Finkelman (be6791)

  38. The kids can’t gnaw a pop tart into the shape of a gun and shoot the intruder with their tasty pastry gun these days, so they have to find other ways to be prepared.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  39. We should, however, have reasonable restrictions. No armor-piercing, cop killer cans. Universal background checks for legume allergies. And we should close the food pantry loophole. I see that the 8 oz. can capacity limitation is already there. Good. Nobody needs 16 oz assault style cans. And no shoulder thing that goes up, either.

    nk (dbc370)

  40. 14. seeRpea (3cc998) — 1/18/2015 @ 5:38 pm

    And this is better than stones.

    I don;t know. Stones might be pretty good, with the addition of one piece of equipment.

    The later King David did pretty good against Goliath armed with a slingshot.

    http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt08a17.htm

    מ וַיִּקַּח מַקְלוֹ בְּיָדוֹ, וַיִּבְחַר-לוֹ חֲמִשָּׁה חַלֻּקֵי-אֲבָנִים מִן-הַנַּחַל וַיָּשֶׂם אֹתָם בִּכְלִי הָרֹעִים אֲשֶׁר-לוֹ וּבַיַּלְקוּט–וְקַלְעוֹ בְיָדוֹ; וַיִּגַּשׁ, אֶל-הַפְּלִשְׁתִּי. 40 And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in the shepherd’s bag which he had, even in his scrip; and his sling was in his hand; and he drew near to the Philistine.

    Of course, Goliath only had a sword- David had the advantage of being out of range, while Goliath was within his range.

    Sammy Finkelman (be6791)

  41. Err, Sammy. The intruder would have heavy armor and a sword or a boom-boom thingie?

    nk (dbc370)

  42. מח וְהָיָה כִּי-קָם הַפְּלִשְׁתִּי, וַיֵּלֶךְ וַיִּקְרַב לִקְרַאת דָּוִד; וַיְמַהֵר דָּוִד, וַיָּרָץ הַמַּעֲרָכָה לִקְרַאת הַפְּלִשְׁתִּי. 48 And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came and drew nigh to meet David, that David hastened, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine.
    מט וַיִּשְׁלַח דָּוִד אֶת-יָדוֹ אֶל-הַכֶּלִי, וַיִּקַּח מִשָּׁם אֶבֶן וַיְקַלַּע, וַיַּךְ אֶת-הַפְּלִשְׁתִּי, אֶל-מִצְחוֹ; וַתִּטְבַּע הָאֶבֶן בְּמִצְחוֹ, וַיִּפֹּל עַל-פָּנָיו אָרְצָה. 49 And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slung it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead; and the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell upon his face to the earth.
    נ וַיֶּחֱזַק דָּוִד מִן-הַפְּלִשְׁתִּי בַּקֶּלַע וּבָאֶבֶן, וַיַּךְ אֶת-הַפְּלִשְׁתִּי וַיְמִתֵהוּ; וְחֶרֶב, אֵין בְּיַד-דָּוִד. 50 So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David.
    נא וַיָּרָץ דָּוִד וַיַּעֲמֹד אֶל-הַפְּלִשְׁתִּי וַיִּקַּח אֶת-חַרְבּוֹ וַיִּשְׁלְפָהּ מִתַּעְרָהּ, וַיְמֹתְתֵהוּ, וַיִּכְרָת-בָּהּ, אֶת-רֹאשׁוֹ; וַיִּרְאוּ הַפְּלִשְׁתִּים כִּי-מֵת גִּבּוֹרָם, וַיָּנֻסוּ. 51 And David ran, and stood over the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw that their mighty man was dead, they fled.

    Sammy Finkelman (be6791)

  43. And Goliath, Shmoliath. How did Richard the Lionhearted die? Agincourt? Mantinea? Long range missiles work. They work real good. That’s why fire sticks that go boom.

    nk (dbc370)

  44. nk (dbc370) — 1/18/2015 @ 7:43 pm

    Err, Sammy. The intruder would have heavy armor and a sword or a boom-boom thingie?

    I think you also need the element of surprise – the person with the stone (much more reliable than a book or a can – the force on a concentrated point counts more than the total force) would be hidden or in a place where he;s not looking.

    But I think the principal is envisioning a mass simultaneous attack – too many children would be attacking for him to mow them all down before he got hit, or the objects coming at him would distract him, or make his aim go wild – and this is really when he’s already shooting – the idea being there would be a higher number of survivors.

    Sammy Finkelman (be6791)

  45. At least it’s not “shelter in place”, that is “Wait for the man to come and kill you.”

    JWB (6cba10)

  46. Yes, Sammy, the principal’s principal principle is “fight back”.

    nk (dbc370)

  47. …That may cause some problems with other policies where kids who are attacked by other kids fight back only to be punished by the school as if they started the fight…

    Gramps, I somehow think we won’t have to worry about the kid fighting back, since we live in a society there CPS threatens to remove kids from a family if anyone ever sees them outside the house without parental supervision.

    http://patterico.com/2015/01/17/parents-questioned-by-authorities-for-letting-children-walk-home-from-park/

    As Pat said on that thread, “It’s a cowardly new world.”

    So now the children who are traumatized when CPS visits their homes if their parents allow them to have a normal childhood not to mention by the schools themselves, with their out-of-control zero tolerance policies (don’t chew your poptart into the wrong shape, kid, or kiss a girl, little boy, you’ll have a criminal record) run by teachers and administrators that think boys acting as boys is some sort of dangerous disorder that requires drug therapy, are supposed to be the front line of defense against a school shooter? Well, them and their canned food items.

    I hope you see the absurdity in all this, Gramps.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  48. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-06-26-recess-bans_x.htm

    But several experts, including Donna Thompson of the National Program for Playground Safety, verify the trend. Dodge ball has been out at some schools for years, but banning games such as tag and soccer is a newer development.

    “It’s happening more,” Thompson says. Educators worry about “kids running into one another” and getting hurt, she says.

    In January, Freedom Elementary School in Cheyenne prohibited tag at recess because it “progresses easily into slapping and hitting and pushing instead of just touching,” Principal Cindy Farwell says.

    The ironically named Freedom Elementary School.

    But in any case I can see how the experts believe that children have to be raised in bubblewrap and need round-the-clock adult supervision (or CPS must investigate the “abuse”) is the way to produce children who will fight back by any means necessary. Not.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  49. I could be convinced to support this idea of having the kids learn to throw cans at somebody for self-defense on one condition.

    Schools have to bring dodgeball back, since it’s obviously the best form of training for that sort of action.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  50. About 100 years from now they will all be speaking Arabic and Farsi and nothing will work or be manufactured. They will live in darkness and rubble. By which time I will have departed this mortal coils knowing that I lived in the best of times. For the most part, anyway. Buy goat futures.

    Gazzer (c44509)

  51. Dodgeball? We had an indoor rifle range in my high school in 1971. Under the stands of the football stadium. Sponsored by the NRA. With a free subscription to American Rifleman. I’d love to see the kids in my daughter’s school riding their ponies (ok, bikes) to school, with their rifles slung on their backs which they hung up along with their coats when they entered the classroom.

    nk (dbc370)

  52. You miss my point Mr 57. I think fighting back, by any means available, is a good thing. Teaching kids at an early age to do this is a step in the direction of breaking that “cowardly world” model. Sadly there is a great population of adults who do not understand that… either breaking the model, or actually fighting back.

    Maybe this will catch on and the kids can practice by throwing the canned goods at those CPS workers… make them “pay the price”. I feel that the CPS concept is the most onerous of recent government inventions. But we digress… [I saw that post & comments, but thanks for the link anyway.]

    Gramps, the original (9e1415)

  53. nk (dbc370) — 1/18/2015 @ 7:46 pm

    And Goliath, Shmoliath. How did Richard the Lionhearted die?

    According to the book “A history of the Crusades Volume III” by Steven Runciman (Cambridge University Press 1951..1993) page 75, ‘a stray arrow shot from the rebel castle in the Limosin’ on March 16, 1199.

    Agincourt? Mantinea? Long range missiles work. They work real good. That’s why fire sticks that go boom.

    Even in the time of the kingdom of Israel they were already using long range missiles.

    http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt25b18.htm

    לג וְאִישׁ, מָשַׁךְ בַּקֶּשֶׁת לְתֻמּוֹ, וַיַּךְ אֶת-מֶלֶךְ יִשְׂרָאֵל, בֵּין הַדְּבָקִים וּבֵין הַשִּׁרְיָן; וַיֹּאמֶר לָרַכָּב, הֲפֹךְ ידיך (יָדְךָ) וְהוֹצֵאתַנִי מִן-הַמַּחֲנֶה–כִּי הָחֳלֵיתִי. 33 And a certain man drew his bow at a venture, and smote the king of Israel between the lower armour and the breastplate; wherefore he said to the driver of the chariot: ‘Turn thy hand, and carry me out of the host; for I am sore wounded.’

    The king of Judah, Jehoshaphat, almost got killed in this battle. After the prophet Micaiah had said, after being cross examined almost, and in contradiction to all the other prophets Ahab had there, something to the effect that Ahab would die, the king of Israel has decided to disguise himself, but he told the king of Judah, Jehoshaphat, to wear his usual robes, and look like the person in charge. Now the king of Aram had told his men to fight only with king of Israel, calculating, that if he was killed, the battle was over. So when they saw Jehoshaphat, they started pursuing him, and he barely escaped with his life. They let off when saw it wasn’t Ahab after he cried out. And after that Ahab was mortally wounded by someone who, if I understand this correctly, didn’t even know who he was. They took him off the battlefield, and his men propped him up in his chariot till about sunset, when he died from loss of blood.

    This is also in I Kings 22.

    Sammy Finkelman (be6791)

  54. My wife took a pistol to school back in the 70s, as did every other kid, in order to be taught safety and marksmanship. Rode the bus to school with it and no-one died!

    Gazzer (c44509)

  55. Winning is bad sportsmansship. http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/01/16/girls-basketball-coach-suspended-after-defeating-opponent-161-2/ But the good news is that’s in California, not America. If we can contain the disease.

    nk (dbc370)

  56. In one way, if a madman with a gun came into a room intending to shoot everybody, a barrage of 30 cans flying all at once would at least be a distraction and allow for more heroics…
    but the odds of it really helping are low, and the odds of it going wrong are likely higher. A false sense of being able to defend oneself may lead to taking an unwise risk.

    But, hey, if the principal knows she isn’t going to get any better security than classrooms filled with fully functional canned-good launchers, maybe it’s worth a try.

    On the other hand, maybe the person proposing this knows just how absurd the idea is and hopes others will decide something better needs to be done.

    WarEagle, good to see ya…
    Your boys sure put a hurt on Melvin Gordon, just like they said they would…

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  57. Surgical tubing, say two pieces 8′ long, a doggy dish, two stout students to serve as props, and one stretcher/aimer, and a can of tuna could be fired with deadly results at 50 to 150 feet. Five squads of 3 students suitably located and thusly equipped could serve as the indirect fire support group. The wealthier kids could bring their wham-o slingshots and some lead fishing weights to school, and they could be deputized as the mobile reaction force. Radios, go-pro drones, bicycle helmets, camo pants and shirts, and you could make the school a decidely hard target.

    But heaven help the child who points her finger at a friend and say “bang”. Expulsion and a permanent criminal record are about the best she could hope for with good legal representation.

    bobathome (f208b6)

  58. nk, I saw mention of that and I think the thing is that the winning team played a full court press the whole game, so it wasn’t just that they won, but that they did go out of their way to punish and humiliate.

    In martial arts, as far as I know, a superior fighter is to compete at a level of their opponent to some degree, at least when they are sparring for training. A black belt doesn’t want to demolish a yellow belt, but to challenge the yellow belt to do their best.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  59. I predict a debate arising over the relative stopping power of peas versus peaches versus tomatoes with the traditionalists loyally promoting their cherished military issue K-rations in chipped beef on toast caliber.

    nk (dbc370)

  60. Thera-Bands, bobathome. And they can also be used as exercise equipment. Check out the slingshot guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYJ2zj1SB5Y He’s got one like you say that shoots Christmas tree trunks.

    nk (dbc370)

  61. I understand, MD. I was never into team sports, either, and I’m glad my daughter chose swimming where personal best does not depend on the strength or weakness of an opponent.

    nk (dbc370)

  62. hey, my boys paid for fencing lessons for me for a Christmas present. fun.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  63. Nk,

    Thera-Bands can be dangerous! I used them in PT for a year and during one exercise for shoulders, I had it folded in half, knotted and held in place in closed door. With either end in my hands and facing away from the door and stretching bands to capacity, I started my butterfly pulls forward and unfortunately for me, the door wasn’t secure enough and when I pulled it tightly forward, the knot popped out and soundly whacked me in the back. About knocked me on the floor. Anyway, they could come in handy as a serious slingshot.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  64. The slingshot guy https://www.youtube.com/user/JoergSprave makes some pretty serious weapons from then. And me jealous. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  65. I get your point, Gramps. I think teaching kids to fight back is a good thing at any age. He!!, the nuns who ran the school thought so, too. Not to mention the parish priest, a pre-Vatican II model who captured eleven NORKs at muzzlepoint of his .45 when he was an Army chaplain in Korea. If you didn’t fight back, everyone thought there was something wrong with you.

    Now, if you’re in the category of kid who’d stand up for yourself and fight back the school thinks there’s something wrong with you. Show me a kid likely to fight back, and I’ll show you a kid the school wants on Ritalin or something.

    http://backup.bookwormroom.com/2013/09/10/has-public-schools-war-on-boys-led-to-the-increase-in-gun-crimes/

    …The schools’ anti-bullying programs also persecute boys. Often, bullies are testing out their competitive and pack instincts. Schools could address this by giving boys meaningful competitive and pack opportunities, with strong expectations about honorable behavior, or they should work to teach other students how not to become victims. (This would be akin to teaching home owners how to lock doors. There are bad people out there, but you certainly lessen your exposure if you take responsibility for protecting and defending yourself.)

    Instead, schools out-bully the bullies by bringing the full weight of the school to bear on a kid who is, as likely as not, just testing boy boundaries. The victim learns that people should never defend themselves because, if they do, they’ll get in trouble, and if they don’t, they’ll be celebrated for calling in the heavy-hitters. The “bullies” learn that the best way to win is to be the biggest bully of them all.

    When boys do not respond to this constant hammering away at them in an effort to wipe out their biological imperatives, they get labeled as “problem” students, or ADHD kids. The schools then start pressuring the parents to put the boys on psychotropic drugs. It seems appropriate to mention here that, in every one of the school shootings in the last twenty-years, the shooter has been on psychotropic drugs. The “turn boys into peaceful girl” drugs and the fact that the boys’ families have Democrat political identities are the ties that bind these youthful mass murderers.

    I understand that there are boys who are violent and angry, and that bad things happen. I’m not blaming everything on the schools. I am saying, however, that in their efforts to feminize boys, including taking away the pretend war games in which boys engage to test what they can do, the schools are creating boys who do not know how to harness their boy energy in a healthy way, and who too often become dependent on psychotropic drugs that have strong links to murder and suicide…

    I imagine if there was an incident and the school found out you had actually taught your kid to fight back, you’d have CPS attempting to take your child away. It is truly a cowardly new world, Gramps.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  66. 58. …but the odds of it really helping are low, and the odds of it going wrong are likely higher. A false sense of being able to defend oneself may lead to taking an unwise risk.

    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 1/18/2015 @ 8:31 pm

    The irony of ironies, Doc, is the above is precisely what the gun grabbers say about trying to defend yourself with a gun. It won’t help, the perp will just take it from you and use it on you, etc.

    But the same brain trust thinks canned goods will work better.

    Also, I wouldn’t want to give anyone ideas, but in the Crimean War the British Cavalry found their swords couldn’t cut through the Russians’ heavy winter coats. They also provided sufficient protection to the wearer that they weren’t greatly bothered by the impact of the sword blows. So canned goods are supposed to do better?

    Like I said, I wouldn’t want to give anyone any ideas. But given that so many school shooters are students at their schools or alumni, if this is actually the plan then they probably can figure out that they already own what they need to defeat it. If not a trip to a Walmart, a sporting goods store, or a Home Depot would fill in the gaps.

    I agree; this plan, if it is the plan, would just give the kids a false sense of being able to defend themselves. And if in fact the schools have a better and secret plan in place, then it’s still just self-defense theater to give the kids a false sense of being able to defend themselves.

    But I’d still be OK with it if it meant the kids got dodgeball back.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  67. It’s not as bad an idea as it sounds.

    Not many of these school shooters, who are very cowardly people, would stand in as thirty ten year olds pelt them with cans of Green Giant peas. Think of them as good-sized rocks that can be occasionally recycled to the shelters and food pantries.

    And no one even died by accidentally setting off a can of creamed corn that I recall.

    What is the alternative? Let all the kids openly carry firearms? What could go wrong?

    Estragon (ada867)

  68. I have used slingshots to successfully repel javelinas from my yard.

    Gazzer (c44509)

  69. Oh, and spiralizers everybody

    Gazzer (c44509)

  70. 64. hey, my boys paid for fencing lessons for me for a Christmas present. fun.

    MD in Philly (f9371b) — 1/18/2015 @ 8:49 pm

    Good for you. I started fencing a few months back. Not modern sport fencing, but a different style. HEMA, or Historical European Martial Arts. We don’t use foils or epees but long sword wasters of wood or aluminum. Our group works from Fiore de’ Liberi’s treatise Fior di Battaglia.

    Both styles have much to recommend them. If you like fencing and are interested, I’m sure you can find a lot more opportunities to try the HEMA style in the Philly environs than I have in Dallas. And the good thing is generally they’re informal and either free or just a nominal fee.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  71. Disgusting. This makes me sick. School shootings are a terrible threat and these people put together some mystical, mythical cartoon-based plan that will GET KIDS KILLED.

    This is negligence of the worst variety. There is no person on earth with any sort of tactical firearms experience who imagined this being a good idea in any way shape or form.

    And they will think of it as security. This is negligence, pure and simple, and anyone who let that plan go forward needs to be fired for cause immediately.

    Robert C. J. Parry (cdd6a8)

  72. I received an A in 7 th grade Archery.
    c in math.

    mg (31009b)

  73. To commenter # 73 and others : You all miss the point. I am 76 years old, a former Ranger Instructor, and, among other subjects, I taught the fundamentals of unarmed defense. Ths plan is one form of what I taught. If you are unarmed, use improvised weapons. In a schoolroom, throw books, laptops, cellphones and anything else available and attack en masse. If you don’t, you are going to be killed or wounded anyway. If a number of eight year olds attack an adult (nice game that I played with kids at the swimming pool) they can overwhelm the adult. The profile of the schoolroom shooters indicates that they will shoot themselves if attacked – even by eight year olds. If the children were Spartan, Persian, Apache or Zulu, they would have been taught this.

    Michael M. Keohane (a62dc7)

  74. To have any chance to work, it seems kids should be told to attack in unison. In other words, teach them to be a pack of bullies. It’s great if it works but somehow I don’t see today’s PC teachers and administrators doing that and, if they did, I suspect some of the kids might try out their new “skills” on their classmates and/or teachers.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  75. I don’tthink this is a real plan, because I’m pretty sure Principal Priscella Holley would give students zero amount of training or preparation – it’s just something to alter the odds a bit.

    I’m not sure of the schoolroom shooter would shoot himself. When they are surrounded by police, they do, but they expect to lose to police.

    That brings up another idea.

    What about playing somewhat loud recordings of police sounds, maybe coming from several different places?

    Sammy Finkelman (e806a6)

  76. DRJ @76, I couldn’t agree more the PC administrators and teachers pulling this off, when they spend all their time trying to put a stop to this kind of behavior. Schools today are hostile to anything remotely resembling aggression, i.e. little boy behavior. I don’t see how you focus on “anti-bullying” curriculum throughout the academic year, ban any play on the playground that might possibly get rough. Like tag and soccer?!?! And then after all that expect the kids to respond exactly opposite to years of indoctrination on cue in an emergency.

    I was only half-joking about letting the kids play dodgeball and justifying it as a form of training. I admit I would see that as a hint they might be seriously contemplating this.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  77. Mr 57 wrote:

    I was only half-joking about letting the kids play dodgeball and justifying it as a form of training. I admit I would see that as a hint they might be seriously contemplating this.

    To train thusly, the kids would have to change it from dodgeball to dodgecan. I can see a real incentive for the kids to develop quickness and agility as a can of Green Giant corm is flying at their pumpkin heads.

    The wryly amused Dana (f6a568)

  78. The wryly amused Dana @79, when I was in the Nav and we did ship’s reaction force training we used paintball guns so we could shoot at each other without killing each other. You don’t want to use actual ammo in training. Think of the dodgeball as a big paint ball.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  79. Howzabout a modified version of dodgeball where the kids use balloons filled with colored water. That way, if the kid gets hit, everyone can see it, the kid is eliminated, and there’s no way the kid can try to claim he wasn’t really hit. That’s why we used the paint ball guns.

    Steve57 (2baf2d)

  80. I fear for the child who draws a can of beans. Off to the principles office with him for posign a threat to his peers.

    Pious Agnostic (7eb3b0)

  81. Yes, we can!

    nk (dbc370)

  82. What about the granola family which is organic foods only? Do they make organic canned food?

    nk (dbc370)

  83. And nobody said “food fight” yet? It’s been too long since we’ve been in a school cafeteria for all of us?

    nk (dbc370)

  84. Not only are Liberals insane, they are stupid, too.

    PCD (39058b)

  85. The only people I’d be afraid of throwing cans of peas at me are Randy Johnson, Brett Favre, and Aaron Rodgers.

    PCD (39058b)

  86. Mr Keohane:

    I’m a combat experienced infantry officer. Imparting in children the idea that a gunman can be battled with canned foods would be absurd if it weren’t so dangerous. Implying to their parents that they are safe because of it is a dereliction. Field-expedient methods of self defense are fine for individuals as a last resort. But this is a prepared primary method of defense, not a worst case contingency.

    Robert C. J. Parry (cdd6a8)

  87. i’m sorry to inform you Mr. and Mrs. Picklehead

    the canned goods defense failed

    yes ma’am I’m sorry

    Sally won’t be coming home today

    but it was really close there for a second it looked like he was going down but then he rallied and, well, what can you do

    happyfeet (831175)

  88. I personally would be looking for an 8 ounce can of aerosol WD40 … and a BIC lighter.

    Pouncer (415203)

  89. hello Mr. and Mrs. Goopyface

    bad news about Dylan

    yes ma’am you heard right we had a code blue today and I’m afraid Dylan didn’t make it

    one question for you though… when we found Dylan he still had his can of Dinty Moore in his backpack

    oh. You’re pacifists. Yes I understand.

    happyfeet (831175)

  90. 90, Lighters are not allow in student’s possession in schools. Only in the Teacher’s Lounge to light the blunts.

    PCD (39058b)

  91. One morning about 35 years ago when I was in high school, I walked over to the local convenience store. The manager told me there had been an attempted robbery the night before. The perp pulled a knife, and the female clerk reached under the counter for a can of peas she kept there. Apparently she had anticipated this type of situation. She hurled the can and knocked the guy out cold. Paramedics had to use ammonia ampules to rouse him after the cops cuffed him.

    What is funnier – the clerk’s aim may have been a bit off. She did not give him a concussion. Instead, the can struck dead center on his family jewels!

    David (099e1f)

  92. 93, who said she missed?

    PCD (39058b)


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