Patterico's Pontifications

12/31/2014

Chief Of Police Responds To Resident’s Letter Asking Why Protesters Are Being Allowed To Disrupt Their City (And Being Served Hot Chocolate And Coffee)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:13 am

[guest post by Dana]

In what is being lauded as a remarkable letter, chief of police Steve Anderson of Nashville responds to a concerned resident’s letter inquiring why protesters are being continually allowed to disrupt the city:

I wanted to send you this email to express my frustration and outrage at how the situation of these protesters is being handled in Nashville. The first night protesters marched here after the incidents in Ferguson they never should have been allowed to shut down the interstate. Instead of at least threatening to arrest them, they were served coffee and hot chocolate. I don’t feel that is an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars. It sends a message that they can do whatever they want and will be rewarded. Then, this past week, more protesters march around downtown for 3 or more hours and once again, no arrests, and it took THP to keep them from getting on the interstate again. Saturday night, marching and “die ins” at Opry Mills mall. How long are we going to allow these people to disrupt our city?

I have a son who I have raised to respect police officers and other authority figures, but if he comes to me today and asks “Why are the police allowing this?” I wouldn’t have a good answer. If any other group of people wanted to march around the streets they would have to get a permit weeks or months in advance, and I know it’s not possible to get a permit to obstruct traffic and walk on the interstate.

The writer also urges the chief to ask himself: “Am I following or giving orders that help or hurt the community?” .

I am highlighting portions of the chief’s response:

Has consideration been given as to whether the response of the police department “help or hurt the community.”

It is our view that every decision made within the police department should be made with the community in mind. Obviously, there are some matters in which we have no discretion. On matters in which we do have discretion, careful consideration is given as to the best course of action, always with the welfare of the general public in mind.

That has been the consideration on this issue. Certainly, in comparing the outcome here in Nashville with what has occurred in some other cities, the results speak for themselves. I stand on the decisions that have been made.

“These actions are putting the department at disharmony from the majority of the citizens.”

While I don’t doubt that you sincerely believe that your thoughts represent the majority of citizens, I would ask you to consider the following before you chisel those thoughts in stone.

As imperfect humans, we have a tendency to limit our association with other persons to those persons who are most like us. Unfortunately, there is even more of a human tendency to stay within our comfort zone by further narrowing those associations to those persons who share our thoughts and opinions. By doing this we can avoid giving consideration to thoughts and ideas different than our own. This would make us uncomfortable. By considering only the thoughts and ideas we are in agreement with, we stay in our comfort zone. Our own biases get reinforced and reflected back at us leaving no room for any opinion but our own. By doing this, we often convince ourselves that the majority of the world shares opinion and that anyone with another opinion is, obviously, wrong.

It is only when we go outside that comfort zone, and subject ourselves to the discomfort of considering thoughts we don’t agree with, that we can make an informed judgment on any matter. We can still disagree and maintain our opinions, but we can now do so knowing that the issue has been given consideration from all four sides. Or, if we truly give fair consideration to all points of view, we may need to swallow our pride and amend our original thoughts.

And, it is only by giving consideration to the thoughts of all persons, even those that disagree with us, that we can have an understanding as to what constitutes a majority.

“I just want myself and my family to feel that our city is safe, and right now we don’t feel that way.”

I have to admit, I am somewhat puzzled by this announcement. None of the demonstrators in this city have in any way exhibited any propensity for violence or indicated, even verbally, that they would harm anyone. I can understand how you may feel that your ideologies have been questioned but I am not aware of any occurrence that would give reason for someone to feel physically threatened.

“I have a son who I have raised to respect police officers and other authority figures, but if he comes to me today and asks “Why are the police allowing this?” I wouldn’t have a good answer.”

It is somewhat perplexing when children are injected into the conversation as an attempt to bolster a position or as an attempt to thwart the position of another. While this is not the type of conversation I ordinarily engage in, here are some thoughts you may find useful as you talk with your son.

First, it is laudable that you are teaching your son respect for the police and other authority figures. However, a better lesson might be that it is the government the police serve that should be respected. The police are merely a representative of a government formed by the people for the people—for all people. Being respectful of the government would mean being respectful of all persons, no matter what their views.

Later, it might be good to point out that the government needs to be, and is, somewhat flexible, especially in situations where there are minor violations of law. A government that had zero tolerance for even minor infractions would prove unworkable in short order.

Although this is unlikely, given your zero tolerance stance, suppose that, by accident or perhaps inattention, you found yourself going 40 miles per hour in a 30 miles per hour zone and that you were stopped by a police officer. Then, after making assurances that licenses were in order and that there were no outstanding warrants, the officer asked you not to speed again and did not issue a citation, but merely sent you on your way.

As you have suggested, a question may come to you from the back seat, “How can I respect the police if they will not enforce the law?” In the event this does occur, here are some facts that might help you answer that question.

H/T Weasel Zippers

–Dana

118 Responses to “Chief Of Police Responds To Resident’s Letter Asking Why Protesters Are Being Allowed To Disrupt Their City (And Being Served Hot Chocolate And Coffee)”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  2. Hello, Dana. I like this guy. Heh!

    nk (dbc370)

  3. Certainly, in comparing the outcome here in Nashville with what has occurred in some other cities, the results speak for themselves.

    yeah… criminals and thugs running all over the city, disrupting peaceable citizens and breaking the law with impunity.

    the chief is s political idiot in a police uniform.

    redc1c4 (4db2c8)

  4. I will be interested in reading what Glenn Reynolds has to say about this. This fellow would appear to be better-suited to be the Chief-of-Police of Berkeley, Ca. than Nashville.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  5. Collective discomfort and inconvenience is to be prized over expecting those that have political disagreements to observe the rights of others manifest in the laws that they pass to regulate conduct.
    WhataCountry!

    askeptic (efcf22)

  6. poor Nashville.. Another lost city in a nation of lost cities.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  7. I like the way he gently says “Have you tried not being a racist?”

    Pious Agnostic (7eb3b0)

  8. So when some driver snaps and drives over a few of these @$$h@t$, who’s the police chief going to blame? He’s in the wrong job. Paved roads were meant for automobiles, and sidewalks are for pedestrians. Nuff said.

    hadoop (657247)

  9. Except for the coffee and hot chocolate, we pretty much did the same thing in Chicago. Massive police presence, including cavalry, kept the “protesters” on a parade route in the Loop. No burning, no looting, nobody beaten or shot. It’s called keeping the peace, and there’s more than one way to do it. We had done it before the same way with the G-8 meeting.

    nk (dbc370)

  10. G-8: Well, doing better than Seattle is a pretty low bar to clear.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  11. Let’s see ’em “keep the peace” on the southside, nk.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  12. They do keep “the peace of the South Side” in the South Side and don’t let it spill over to the Loop and North Side.

    nk (dbc370)

  13. That police chief is made of Boehner-material and should find a job that suits him better. McDonals is probably hiring.

    jorgen (e4538e)

  14. but… but… BUT ALL BLACK LIVES MATTER!, nk. Making sure the dead bodies are piled on one side of the line is not success.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  15. Translation: “Since black people cannot control themselves in public, we are suspending the law for tonight.”

    Patricia (5fc097)

  16. The tl;dr of that response is “Because I don’t want Al Sharpton to say mean things about me”.

    So, what the original letter-writer should tell his kid is that the Nashville Chief of Police is a gutless dissembling twink who fears the Wagging Finger of Sharpton above all else.

    PCachu (e072b7)

  17. At 11 minutes left in the 2nd qtr TCU is up 21 zip over Ole Miss and lookin’ darn good doin’ it.

    ropelight (d73ec0)

  18. Protestors clogging the interstate is mass civil disobedience. If it’s peaceful, then disrupting it by force is going to cause more violence and delay than just letting it be.

    I’d be mad if I couldn’t get to work my usual way too. Maybe mad enough to organize a counterprotest that would peacefully block the onramps so that only cars that lookeed like they were on their way to work could go through.

    The chief of police didn’t need to be so condescending. Civil disobedience is not violent crime and should not be handled in the same way.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  19. Did anything happen in Nashville worse than a Fourth of July parade?

    I mean besides them there uppity n***ers and outside agitators not getting their heads bashed in?

    nk (dbc370)

  20. Let someone die in an ambulance because demonstrators blocked the Interstate and then the police chief can explain why his officers were serving donuts and hot chocolate instead of doing their jobs.

    ropelight (d73ec0)

  21. The mass exodus of black folks from the north to the south that has been happening for the last several years may reflect that they find the south far less racy-racy-racist than you may, nk. Just sayin’…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  22. And the moral of the story is if enough people decide to break the law the cops will look the other way. Good to know.

    f1guyus (9cbd15)

  23. Go for it, nk. Play the race card.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  24. The mass exodus of black folks from the north to the south that has been happening for the last several years may reflect that they find the south far less racy-racy-racist than you may, nk. Just sayin’…
    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/31/2014 @ 10:38 am

    That’s what I said, Haiku.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. @ropelight:20.Let someone die in an ambulance because demonstrators blocked the Interstate and then the police chief can explain why his officers were serving donuts and hot chocolate instead of doing their jobs.

    Let someone die in an ambulance who gets injured while the police put down a peaceful protest by force. And if that someone is black, we can have another Ferguson. Nobody will die in the resulting rioting and looting I’m sure.

    @f1guyus:22.And the moral of the story is if enough people decide to break the law the cops will look the other way. Good to know.

    They have little choice when the number is large enough. Laws can only be enforce with the tacit consent of a supermajority. There’s no law that can be enforced if enough people choose to ignore it.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  26. oh… you should know by now you canNOT be subtle or nuanced, nk!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  27. The mass exodus of black folks from the north to the south that has been happening for the last several years may reflect that they find the south far less racy-racy-racist than you may, nk.

    Or maybe they just want to live in a place where they can find jobs, instead of big cities run by northern liberals who figure they will be just fine with an unemployment or welfare check.

    JVW (60ca93)

  28. wringing out the old
    low-T keyboard warriors
    HuffPo teeth gnashers

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  29. DRJ, I don’t know if it’s a Tennessee saying but it was said by a Tennessean and a lawyer to boot. “Don’t kick less’n you’re spurred”. What Nashville did worked it seems to be, and there’s no real basis to be second guessing the chief.

    As for my phrasing, I just printed out my letter of good standing. It’s an official fact, from the Illinois Supreme Court, that I have never been disciplined.

    nk (dbc370)

  30. …except for that li’l missy with teh whip and spurs…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  31. Protestors clogging the interstate is a mass civil rights violation of everyone trying to use the public roads.

    FTFY!

    redc1c4 (269d8e)

  32. teh foppish prince barry doth prance… http://ace.mu.nu/archives/354080.php

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  33. Did anything happen in Nashville worse than a Fourth of July parade?

    parades are scheduled & pre-announced, so that citizens and the government can make proper arrangements and plans.

    comparing a parade to an illegal denial of civil rights by a criminal mob is a tacit admission that your argument is flawed.

    redc1c4 (269d8e)

  34. @redc1c4:an illegal denial of civil rights

    There is no civil right to drive on the Interstate. There is no civil right to drive, as anyone who refuses a breathalyzer quickly discovers.

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  35. 30- that wasn’t a ‘missy’, but a “M’mam!”

    askeptic (efcf22)

  36. Chiefs of police, like superintendents of schools are politicians first–and police and educators last. Some are a bit smarmier than others.

    Skeptical Voter (12e67d)

  37. there IS a freedom of movement, and to travel unmolested.

    or doesn’t the name “Reginald Denny” mean anything to you?

    redc1c4 (269d8e)

  38. Check out the Gateway Pundit’s post on Ferguson demonstrators getting maced and cuffed for holding a sit-in at the St Louis police station.

    ropelight (d73ec0)

  39. @redc1c4:there IS a freedom of movement

    Protestors confined no one to their homes. There are other roads besides the Interstate. They did not besiege the city.

    and to travel unmolested

    Who was molested?

    doesn’t the name “Reginald Denny” mean anything to you?

    He was pulled from his truck and beaten. Who did that happen to in this case?

    Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1)

  40. 39- No One, Yet!

    askeptic (efcf22)

  41. Bless the hearts of our special snowflakes.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  42. Here’s a similar topic, the fainting couch:

    http://pjmedia.com/eddriscoll/2014/12/30/2014-fainting-couch/?singlepage=true

    Why do people cater to such losers?

    AZ Bob (7d2a2c)

  43. Police and politician have the same root, polis, “[of] the City”.

    nk (dbc370)

  44. 21. 24. 27. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/31/2014 @ 10:38 am

    The mass exodus of black folks from the north to the south that has been happening for the last several years may reflect that they find the south far less racy-racy-racist than you may, nk. Just sayin’…

    The last several years?

    That’s been going on since about 1970.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-Ed/2012/09/30/The-Great-Reverse-Migration-African-Americans-are-abandoning-the-Northern-cities-that-have-failed-them/stories/201209300228

    I don’t know that it has accelerated much, or that much, in recent years. It has a little.

    http://www.frey-demographer.org/reports/R-2004-3_NewGreatMigration.pdf

    Where do you think all the people from Detroit went? Not just to the suburbs.

    Also see: http://www.inmotionaame.org/print.cfm;jsessionid=f8302188861420052400438?migration=11&bhcp=1

    Sammy Finkelman (7cd5f4)

  45. A public servant ought have a servant’s heart, and sufficient wisdom and patience to enable him to deal with, and appreciate, the multifaceted schizophrenic principals whom he serves with principle.

    Beldar (fa637a)

  46. They waited until the shutdown of the aerospace industry in SoCal (Bubba’s Peace Dividend) to abandon CA, selling those cottages and single-family detached homes for the appreciation, and moving back to their roots in the Deep South where they could buy 40-acres and recreate the old homestead, living comfortably for considerably less.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  47. Is there a right to assemble on an interstate highway?
    Sounds rude to me.

    At the very least they could have had coffee and hot chocolate only for those who stopped blocking the highway.

    Really, there are other roads other than the interstate, but if you’re driving from Florida to Indiana you probably don’t know which they are, in which case you will try to be reading your GPS while driving and hit a pedestrian on some city street,
    all because somebody wouldn’t move to the side of the road to drink their coffee.

    Parade route through the Loop
    did you mean they let the protesters block the interstate and force people to drive through downtown Chicago neighborhoods?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  48. Is it just me or is the italics key a little off?

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  49. MD, the police delineated a route with their bodies and their horses through Grant Park, Lake Shore Drive, and downtown Chicago. Lake Shore Drive is part of US-41 which goes to Nashville, BTW. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  50. And if you take it north it goes through Fond du Lac, Oshkosh, and Appleton on it’s way to Green Bay,
    well, that certainly was considerate of them.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  51. I hope no one told the neighborhood thugs that the entire police force was either directing traffic or waving to protesters.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  52. Think it’s time to play what if this were the tea party? Would they have gotten the same treatment?

    mgrlno (46a5b3)

  53. I like the discussion here. I can certainly see both sides of the issue. I’d like to believe that people would move aside for an ambulance, and it’s annoying to be inconvenienced. Still, they are peacefully exercising their right to assembly. Even if they moved it off the major streets, an assembly that big will cause disruptions. People exercising their rights will sometimes inconvenience those of us who disagree.

    I definitely like the letter the Police Chief wrote. Very professional and well stated.

    JB (a0e12c)

  54. They would have all been arrested for a minor typo on the Parade Permit Application.

    askeptic (efcf22)

  55. Clearly, this Steve Anderson guy needs to get a little bit of police work under his belt before he goes shooting his mouth off about what the role of a police officer is.

    What does he even do for a living, anyway?

    Leviticus (f9a067)

  56. ==And, it is only by giving consideration to the thoughts of all persons, even those that disagree with us, that we can have an understanding as to what constitutes a majority.==

    This is a sentence from the Chief’s letter. Can someone please explain what it means, you know, in real life practical English and with respect to the citizen’s actual written concerns about law enforcement policy.

    And here’s another snippet:

    “I just want myself and my family to feel that our city is safe, and right now we don’t feel that way.”

    I have to admit, I am somewhat puzzled by this announcement. None of the demonstrators in this city have in any way exhibited any propensity for violence or indicated, even verbally, that they would harm anyone. I can understand how you may feel that your ideologies have been questioned but I am not aware of any occurrence that would give reason for someone to feel physically threatened.

    This would have been a primo moment for the chief to add to that sentence, “however, if you or any of your neighbors have specific instances where you were threatened by protesters, saw any property damage, or were approached in a manner that made you fear for your safety I want you to share those examples with me, personally and privately”.

    I actually think the chief’s intentions were good. I think he wants to appear neutral and thoughtful and non-reactionary. I believe he probably wants his city and all it’s citizens to have a fair shake. But anybody who does not see that several sections of this point by point response are pap, a wholly unnecessary public put down, and a blow-off of the original letter writer’s legitimate concerns as a citizen, is not reading with a very careful eye.

    elissa (afc74d)

  57. A government that had zero tolerance for even minor infractions would prove unworkable in short order.

    Unless they’re selling “loosies” on the street, then we hammer them.

    I know, different city, but the protests are a result of the situation where idiotic liberal laws result in death, then those who have to enforce those idiotic laws take the brunt of the abuse.

    arik (02de93)

  58. i can see how people would get tired of protestors being all disruptive but i can see the chief’s point of view too cause he has to pick his battles

    he didn’t explain about the cocoa though

    i wonder what kind of cocoa it was, and whether or not it had marshmallows i like mine with marshmallows almost always unless it’s trader joe’s sipping chocolate which is kind of a treat precisely cause how not-too-sweet it is

    but if i was outside protesting about how all lives or just about how some particular lives matter for sure I’d want marshmallows cause of the marshmallows help keep the cocoa hot longer

    happyfeet (831175)

  59. I don’t see the anarchist left targeting this bozo for assassination. Chief Bozo helps their cause.

    PCD (39058b)

  60. #57… SHOCKA!!!, DRJ.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  61. Nashville Cops by teh Lovin’ Spoonful

    Nashville cops, they clean as country water
    Nashville cops, they wild as mountain dew
    Nashville cops, been policin’ since they’s babies
    Nashville cops, serve hot cocoa for ye, too
    Well, there’s thirteen hundred and fifty-two
    of them coppers in Nashville
    An’ they could kick more ass than the number of ants
    On a Tennessee anthill
    an’ there’s thirteen thousand and fifty-two
    hard cases in Nashville
    but Chief Anderson says can’t touch ’em
    or yer asses kick I will

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  62. Nashville cops, they clean as country water
    Nashville cops, they wild as mountain dew
    Nashville cops, been policin’ since they’s babies
    Nashville cops, serve hot cocoa for ye too

    Chief was just a lawyer you might say he had his head up in the sky
    Then he saw Al Sharpton raise Hell and knew he was a-skeered of that black guy
    Then them demonstrators decided they’d pay a visit to Nashville
    Chief knew up North weren’t nobody bending over and he said, “but I will”

    Nashville cops, they clean as country water
    Nashville cops, they wild as mountain dew
    Nashville cops, been policin’ since they’s babies
    Nashville cops, serve hot cocoa for ye too

    Well the crazies decided they’d block the interstate up in Nashville
    All their friends held up they arms and said “please don’t shoot us to kill”
    Because they knowed the crazy Chief would serve hot bevs up in Nashville
    And I sure am glad I got a chance to say a word about the MotherF-ing Police Chief from Nashville

    Nashville cops, they clean as country water
    Nashville cops, they wild as mountain dew
    Nashville cops, been policin’ since they’s babies
    Nashville cops, serve hot cocoa for ye too

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  63. THIS is how you deal with the “protestors”…

    redc1c4 (a6e73d)

  64. I have to admit, I am somewhat puzzled by this announcement. None of the demonstrators in this city have in any way exhibited any propensity for violence or indicated, even verbally, that they would harm anyone. I can understand how you may feel that your ideologies have been questioned but I am not aware of any occurrence that would give reason for someone to feel physically threatened.

    while “no justice, no peace” and all the other BS may not sound like “get whitey!”, it’s a dog whistle of racial hatred.

    or a micro-aggression, or a “trigger” or whatever

    regardless: since the usual suspects would be OUTRAGED if white people were saying it about a colored population, the same holds true in reverse.

    knives cut both ways, even if that offends black privlege.

    redc1c4 (6d1848)

  65. @zyanpratama07 occupied. protested. maced. treated. evicted. #WINNING!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. it apparently fart-triggered my dog, red. Jaysus!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  67. Please read the Chief’s bio that DRJ linked. He’s been a cop for 39 years. Along the way he picked up a law degree and he used it as an instructor at the police academy. He also served a stint in the Air Force, the fancy flyboy.

    nk (dbc370)

  68. chief of police Steve Anderson of Nashville

    I wonder in which direction Anderson’s ideology leans?

    BTW, is the Pope Catholic?

    Is the sun hot?

    Do birds fly?

    Finally, on this last day of 2014 — and in honor of Nashville’s police chief touting that we “subject ourselves to the discomfort of considering thoughts we don’t agree with” — a big shout out and warm hello to Nidal Hasan!

    Mark (c160ec)

  69. I think the Pope is a Communist and the secret leader of the Illuminati who are trying to impose a New Order For The Ages through their manipulation of the soybean market which is a staple food in the Asian world and a principle source of protein because everybody knows the Asian population is the largest and fastest growing and protein rich foods are vital to soldiers in training for the world conquest starting with Bhutan then proceeding to Surinam and then to Equatorial New Guinea which are the world’s three most strategic places for directing an attack from the Moon where the Henry Ford Foundation has built particle accelerators that will disable any car which does not contain 666 in its VIN number because the Devil is everywhere and is trying to bring on the Apocalypse even though he knows he will lose because he is sick and tired of all the stupid s**t floating around on the internet.

    nk (dbc370)

  70. Elissa, the translation is simple. You have to pay attention to other people, and figure out if they agree with you. You need to know how many people disagree with you before you can truly decide if your view is indeed the majority view.

    May 2015 be better for you all than 2014. And to those of Catholic/Eastern Orthodox persuasion, Happy Circumcision.

    kishnevi (a5d1b9)

  71. 64 Notes that the picture linked in your link of protesters before macing are almost all white women, and most of them middle aged or older.
    Notes the young black woman shown in the after mace picture is wearing a kippah and wonders what that’s about.

    kishnevi (b9b7a2)

  72. So, every time Obama vetoes a reform bill from the GOP Congress (should that occur), the TEAs ought to go out and block all the Interstates? I’m sure they will be afforded the same latitude by the powers that be.

    After all, police in my town hardly ever use nunchackus against demonstrators: http://articles.latimes.com/1991-06-12/news/mn-523_1_operation-rescue

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  73. I think it is great that the police chief didn’t just send back a form letter but had not only read the whole letter sent in , also took the time to respond within the context of the letter.

    Like others here, I can see both sides of the story except for the coco part which seems cuckoo.
    I think a better way of dealing with it would have been to ensure that there was still the ability for traffic to move through the area. similar to Chicago North Side, i suppose.

    seeRpea (303c15)

  74. I think the Chief largely missed the point in his response. It’s entirely irrelevant whether the protesters’ opinion is or is not shared by a majority of the community, and the part of the letter devoted to that subject comes across as preachy and condescending.

    He should have simply responded that the decision not to make mass-arrests for blocking traffic was based on considerations of public safety, and the safety of the officers at the protest. As long as the protesters’ only offense is blocking traffic, arrest is discretionary, not mandatory. The police made a judgment call that, absent violence or property destruction, the likelihood of people getting hurt (including police and innocent bystanders as well as the petty offenders) would be greatly increased by an aggressive police response. Whether that judgment was right or wrong, it was within the chief’s discretion.

    I think the chief was right to be concerned that the protest might not remain nonviolent if the police tried to round up and arrest everyone blocking traffic. When it comes to crowd control at an emotionally charged public demonstration, the primary concern is immediate public safety. Concern about what sort of message you might be sending is secondary.

    Michael (33997a)

  75. Michael (33997a) — 12/31/2014 @ 9:39 pm

    . It’s entirely irrelevant whether the protesters’ opinion is or is not shared by a majority of the community, and the part of the letter devoted to that subject comes across as preachy and condescending.

    The Nashville chief of police chose to address just that little point, and indeed he went on too much about that.

    Probably because there the chief of police had a point, so he was going to get maximum mileage out of it.

    That part was justified by the remark in the letter that said:

    “These actions are putting the department at disharmony from the majority of the citizens.”

    The thought in the response was that maybe the letter writer wasn’t part of a majority. he wrote to him almost like he Pauline Kael in 1972 who said something close to that she didn’t know any people who voted for Nixon.

    That part about narrowing associations to those persons who share our thoughts and opinions could better have been adressed to the protesters, and that’s probbly not being said to them by anyone anywhere.

    The rest, as you said, was OK.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  76. I think the letter writer’s appeal to a ‘majority’ was wrong and gave him an opening which he harped on like a concern troll, rather annoyingly. What the majority thinks or doesn’t think is immaterial to maintaining order, which is his job, not judging or weighing public opinion. But more dishonest to me is his moral equivalence between letting someone go after a traffic stop with a warning and failing to control a group having an unpermitted protest in an unsafe location and blocking traffic.

    In the first case, he has apprehended the speeder and stopped the behavior, at least for the moment, by pulling them over. He has determined, from record checks, and his assessment of the individual’s behavior at the time that a specific larger danger that needs enforcement against, by choosing to let them off the hook after that fact, not simply ignoring it. In the other case he’s basically making a judgement call that letting the crime continue is better than escalating it into violence thru arrests, which means his assessment is that they are a danger, the exact opposite of the casual speeder…so may as well congratulate them with a nice cup of java?

    That’s not like letting someone off the hook for a minor speeding violation after a stop. That’s turning on your lights and siren and escorting them to let them continue. (Which again I can see happening in time of need – getting someone to a hospital w/ a pregnant woman in the car for the banal example – but doesn’t seem indicated for a bunch of phoney protests ginned up by a bunch of falsehoods and professional agitators.

    That said, I’d really rather see the agitators themselves in the law enforcement spotlight. Take someone in for his continued tax evasion and failure to comply with mandated settlement payments, for example, vs. focusing on the ignorant individual useful idiots. But I guess someone else’s point earlier about all law enforcement requiring the consent of the masses is well taken in that there are far too many useful idiots out there these days.

    rtrski (2e2489)

  77. I would have said, “I’m not going to send my officers out there to rough people up and get roughed up back so you’ll feel safer, you self-righteous, whining, petulant old woman. What I did kept every person and every person’s property safe with some temporary inconvenience to some motorists. So shut up!” But that’s why the Mayor passed me up as Chief of Police.

    nk (dbc370)

  78. I still think they could have at least made the effort to give hot chocolate and coffee only to those who moved out of the way.
    Or at least access to the cream and sugar.

    There is one thing to judge the cost-benefit and another thing to coddle the communists and new black panther party members who had come to foment trouble with tax payer money.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  79. MD in Philly – I hope the Police Chief gave participation ribbons to the protestors along with the hot chockit and coffee to help them feel good about themselves.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  80. Did you see the pictures from Gateway Pundit linked up the thread? They were middle-aged women. With or without the coffee, Port-A-Potties would have been called for too.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. The Chicago PD has an Intelligence Unit. Spies, informants. I bet Nashville has one too. I think it very likely they had a good picture of who the protesters would be and what they were likely to do.

    nk (dbc370)

  82. I’m sure the police were worried about injuries to citizens and the police, but they also have to think about the precedent they set. Time will tell us whether Nashville made the right decision, but compare that to Milwaukee authorities who arrested over 70 protesters who protested the death of a Milwaukee man in April. The protesters blocked the interstate the weekend before Christmas:

    Authorities had strong words for protesters on Saturday. Milwaukee Police Chief Edward Flynn called the highway disruption “a clear breach of trust that had a direct, dramatic and negative impact on the lives of literally hundreds of thousands of Milwaukeeans.”

    Flynn said if protesters are willing to “go on an established route that we can safely manage, we’ll do that. But if they insist on breaking the law, and going into streets unanticipated causing a safety hazard, we’ll make arrests. We can’t guess anymore what they’re going to do.”

    ***

    Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke said Saturday that it was important to get the protesters off the freeway because a traffic jam could have prevented medical emergency vehicles from getting those in need. It also was important to keep the freeway open because people are trying to get to the airport in time for holiday travel.

    The article says the protesters had to pay over $40,000 in fines as a result of their arrests. In response, the protesters moved their protests to Chicago, led by Jesse Jackson.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  83. No I didn’t nk,
    and I’m too worked up about a number of things to look at it now.
    But I also know that editing the view of a picture is as easy as editing a story.
    I would have to be there to see it myself to believe a lot of middle aged ladies from Nashville blocked the Interstate.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  84. Sheriff Clarke and Giuliani to share the next AG post.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  85. =And, it is only by giving consideration to the thoughts of all persons, even those that disagree with us, that we can have an understanding as to what constitutes a majority.==

    elissa (afc74d) — 12/31/2014 @ 12:59 pm

    This is a sentence from the Chief’s letter.

    Can someone please explain what it means,

    I don’t think it makes sense, because he’s combining two different ideas – that to determine what is right, you should listen to other people, and by listening to a lot of people, you may get an idea of what constitutes a majority.

    He’s conflated the idea of what is right, with what is a majority, but then, so did the original letter writer!!

    you know, in real life practical English and with respect to the citizen’s actual written concerns about law enforcement policy.

    One thing that’s goling on here is that the chief of police is avoiding any criticism of the demonstrators’s beliefs and actions. And, in the reply letter, also avoiding the question of whether or not they are a majority, because I think he pretty much knows they aren’t.

    Now he is probably working with the organizers of the demonstrations or protests – even though they deliberately do not get permits or try to, partly because, nobody would ever get a permit for some of the things they are trying to do, and partly because demonstrating without a permit is the point, nevertheless he in fact is probably working with them informally.

    And one thing that is required is never to challenge any of the assertions of the demonstrators, and especially not, to try to alienate them from the promoters of the demonstrations.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  86. “The Chicago PD has an Intelligence Unit. Spies, informants. I bet Nashville has one too. I think it very likely they had a good picture of who the protesters would be and what they were likely to do.”

    nk – The shows of force you describe the Chicago PD putting on and which I have also witnessed, lining both sides of streets and bridges, shoulder to shoulder, in full riot gear, are exactly what the Ferguson protestors describe as driving them into mostly peaceful paroxysms of burning, looting and rioting, even though the police there borrowing from neighboring communities could not a fraction of the manpower of the Chicago PD.

    Seems almost like the Ferguson agitators had their minds set on a course of action.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  87. “In response, the protesters moved their protests to Chicago, led by Jesse Jackson.”

    DRJ – Bless Jesse Jackson’s heart.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  88. * (comma in the wrong place) Should be: “…and especially, not to try to alienate them from the promoters of the demonstrations.”

    And here’s another snippet:

    “I just want myself and my family to feel that our city is safe, and right now we don’t feel that way.”

    I have to admit, I am somewhat puzzled by this announcement. None of the demonstrators in this city have in any way exhibited any propensity for violence or indicated, even verbally, that they would harm anyone. I can understand how you may feel that your ideologies have been questioned but I am not aware of any occurrence that would give reason for someone to feel physically threatened.

    The letter writer doesn’t have the benefit of personal contact with and secret negotations with the protest leaders, so, based on some things that happened in other places, he might have some fear. The chief of police, however, tries to make him look stupid. Becauyse he has to hide that there is a secret reason that he chief is not worried about any of that. More than just several days worh of exoerience.

    This would have been a primo moment for the chief to add to that sentence, “however, if you or any of your neighbors have specific instances where you were threatened by protesters, saw any property damage, or were approached in a manner that made you fear for your safety I want you to share those examples with me, personally and privately”.

    He could have done that, if he’d thought of it, but that would admit that it was a possibility and his whole point is to argue “nothing to see here” and to avoid maligning the demonstrators in any way.

    I actually think the chief’s intentions were good. I think he wants to appear neutral and thoughtful and non-reactionary.

    I think he wants to stay om the good side of the organizers of the demonstrations – that’s how he keeps the peace – and maybe his job, depending on what the political sitation is in Nashville.

    I believe he probably wants his city and all it’s citizens to have a fair shake. But anybody who does not see that several sections of this point by point response are pap, a wholly unnecessary public put down, and a blow-off of the original letter writer’s legitimate concerns as a citizen, is not reading with a very careful eye.

    The whole point of it is to blow things off and have no questions asked. Because he did something that he feels he needs to keep secret.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  89. MD
    The Gateway Pundit linked pictures of the sit-in at the St. Louis PD, the one where people were actually arrested. I made a similar comment up thread. A smaller group than the Nashville protest, and going by the pictures, it would seem that while Angry Young Blacks were present, they were seriously outnumbered by Older White Females Looking For Someone To Be Angry At. A hundred and twenty years ago they would undoubtedly be followers of Carrie Nation.

    kishnevi (294553)

  90. Some mostly peaceful clashes with police at 2012 G8 and NATO Summit in Chicago:

    Protests dwindle in Chicago as NATO summit concludes

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/21/us-nato-summit-protests-idUSBRE84I09X20120521

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  91. From the e-mail by the chief of police:

    ==It is readily apparent that their thought processes are driven, not by what has occurred during the demonstration, but more by the social positions taken by the demonstrators. Clearly, they are more angry at the thoughts expressed by the demonstrators than how the demonstrations are being conducted.==

    True, but notice how neutral he is trying to be. A lot more than 5% think this is nonsense.

    Anyway, he says, which may be very correct, that the resentment against the demonstrators stems from disagreement with them, rather than what they are doing.

    Then he argues that the letter writer probably doesn’t really believe in his principle of zero tolerance:

    ==In the year 2013, our officers made over four hundred thousand vehicle stops, mostly for traffic violations. A citation was issued in only about one in six of those stops. Five of the six received warnings. This is the police exercising discretion for minor violations of the law. Few, if any, persons would argue that the police should have no discretion. ==

    Of course, the difference is, many traffic violations are ignored throughout the year, but what’s going on with the demonstrations has no recent precedent in Nashville.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  92. So with respect to the Nashville chief/protester dealio you’re going strong with the “sooper secret” theme once again, Sammy?

    elissa (ed1a24)

  93. MD,

    There are photos from the Nashville protest in this article by The Tennessean. The protesters appear to be overwhelmingly black.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  94. Because he did something that he feels he needs to keep secret.

    Well, of course he did. All the protesters have been now photographed from several angles; many of their names have become known; of those who accepted the beverages the police have their fingerprints and DNA from the cups. All that is going into the government’s files.

    nk (dbc370)

  95. I would say predominantly black, not overwhelmingly. There are plenty of white faces in those pictures. Interestingly the one cop shown close up is apparently himself a black.
    BTW, given the diuretic effects of coffee, maybe the police were trying to disperse the crowd through stealth.

    kishnevi (3719b7)

  96. daleyrocks,

    It seems Sharpton and Jackson are competing to be the official representative of the black grievance movement, and I think Sharpton is winning given his relationship to Obama. But you’d think Obama’s ties to Chicago would make him lean toward Jackson. What’s the story on the Obama-Jackson relationship?

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  97. I think we should go to Nashville and block traffic,
    demanding that coffee and hot chocolate NOT be given to protestors
    unless they move off the interstate
    and then proceed to demonstrate what we are demonstrating.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  98. DRJ, the local ties might work the other way: O. as local upstart moving in to take over turf J. meant for his Congressional progeny.

    kishnevi (294553)

  99. I would say predominantly black, not overwhelmingly. There are plenty of white faces in those pictures.

    Regardless of their race or ethnicity, 100% of them likely of liberal persuasion—and an infinitesimal amount of common sense.

    Mark (c160ec)

  100. 97. DRJ (a83b8b) — 1/1/2015 @ 10:17 am

    What’s the story on the Obama-Jackson relationship?

    Some or most of Jesse Jackson’s backers are getting tired or distrustful of him, and have been for years, and they’re switching to Sharpton, whose only problem is his debt, which they can gradually pay by making relatively small cash contributions at fundraisers allegedly for other causes, and if that’s taken care of, he might be as “legitimate” as Jesse Jackson Sr. and he might even have less baggage, in spite of several notoriously known false causes.

    And he’s almost 11 years younger.

    And Sharpton can bring more money and support to politicians.

    And Boss (Bill) Clinton is behind him.

    Jesse Jackson is very much a has-been.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  101. 93. elissa (ed1a24) — 1/1/2015 @ 10:03 am

    So with respect to the Nashville chief/protester dealio you’re going strong with the “sooper secret” theme once again, Sammy?

    Not “sooper secret”, which also means, spelled that way, the information the CIA had was all wrong.

    Just ordinary secret, like closed door negotiations. Not classified or even legally protected.

    They might even start talking about it, or at least start alluding to it, in one context or another, as soon as in six months or so.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  102. The leaders of the demonstrators would definitely, right now, not want any hint to get out that they are co-ordinaing things with the police – yet it is very much in their interest to do so.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  103. Sometimes the outline points to a piece of the jigsaw puzzle that isn’t on the table.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  104. “What’s the story on the Obama-Jackson relationship?”

    DRJ – I think Jackson may be too establishment for Obama. His death toll is not as high as Sharpton’s. Plus I don’t think Jackson has his own TV and radio show for exposure.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  105. According to this report, protesters overwhelmed security at the Nashville courthouse:

    An incident report says a group of protesters entered the plaza-side entrance, “overrunning the Security (sic) on site and forcing their way in.” One officer with the security company, G4S, reported being pushed, according to the report.

    One protester, Rondriquez White, said the group went inside to demand the mayor’s office form a citizens review board for investigating police misconduct. The group included protesters from Nashville, Ferguson, Mo., and other states who were in the city attending a conference at American Baptist College, White said.

    Dana (8e74ce)

  106. How to deal with these idiot children:

    1) Funnel the protesters onto a long, straight stretch of Interstate.
    2) Drop a few dozen napalm canisters on them.
    3) Have bulldozers standing by to shove the charred remains into the gutter, so the real citizens of Nashville can go about their business.
    4) Repeat as needed.

    This police officer is a condescending joke. He should be relieved of duty and hung from a very high lamppost for refusing to do his damn job.

    Morbs (dc0278)

  107. What the police did in Nashville was brilliant. The protesters, and I’m being generous in calling them this, were looking to start a fight, if not a riot. They were looking to create a violent confrontation with the police so that they could cast the cops as villains.

    The cops refused to play along. By offering the protesters hot chocolate, blankets, etc, the cops refused to grant the protesters their desired status as victims, instead casting them as foolish children in need of looking after.

    Lee (5b9229)

  108. Has consideration been given as to whether the response of the police department “help or hurt the community.”

    I’m confused… how does allowing protesters shut down and interstate “help the community”?
    Which community is helped by shutting down roads?
    Which community is helped by aiding lawbreakers in breaking laws (as the police did)?

    Are there laws that police will NOT help criminals commit to broaden community outreach?
    Or could there be circumstances where any/all laws are subject to violation with police officer aid?

    If someone could clarify these points; I think I might have a better understanding of the Police Chief';s viewpoint here… and know if it’s as farking stupid as it appears on its face.

    ertdfg (d305b1)

  109. Does an apple a day really keep the doctor away?
    Is three actually a crowd?
    Does research support that you should feed a cold and starve a fever? What do colds eat, anyway?
    Why do peanut butter and jelly bread slices always fall sticky side down?
    How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

    nk (dbc370)

  110. 1.) yes

    2.) when you want to make special hugs with someone yeah

    3.) drink lotsa fluids

    4.) yum!

    5.) seben

    happyfeet (831175)

  111. 4. because they are heavier on that side. It’s the same principle as loaded dice.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  112. What galls me is serving the protestors refreshments. Unless the refreshment were drugged or something, that’s just rewarding uncivilized behavior.

    I really can’t stand protests in general, and they rarely accomplish anything out of being media theater. Also, protests on the left tend to attract professional protestors, who are worthless barbarian thugs who I have zero sympathy for.

    OmegaPaladin (8399d1)

  113. 3. What I can tell you about infections, is that a person has a much higher chance of getting them if he or she feels cold, arguments by some medical professionals to the contrary notwithstanding, and hospitals have even killed people with infections that resulted from being too cold.

    It might make sense to “starve” a cold – that is don’t eat, because I think production of antibodies declines when the body is busy digesting things – it is hard to do too many things at once. Now to find research supporting that…

    “Feeding” a fever – makes sense. A fever happens when the body is fighting an infection, eating reduces the fighting, so maybe the fever goes down – but should it?

    Well, sometimes what the body does is not right.

    In too great injuries the body triesd to do too much.

    And you really need to lower the body temperature to stop cell suicide.

    Mayor Bloomberg ordered the ambulances only take people to hospitals that put people into an induced coma.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/04/nyregion/04cool.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Starting on Jan. 1, New York City ambulances will take many cardiac arrest patients only to hospitals that use a delicate cooling therapy believed to reduce the chances of brain damage and increase the chances of survival, even if it means bypassing closer emergency rooms.

    The move by the city’s Fire Department and Emergency Medical Service, after a year of preparation, indicates a shift away from the prevailing view among emergency workers and the public that how fast critically ill patients reach the hospital is more important than which hospital treats them.

    It amounts to an endorsement by the Bloomberg administration of a labor-intensive, often expensive and still-developing therapy that smaller community hospitals say they lack the staffing and financial wherewithal to provide.

    Some hospital officials fear that the policy could be unfair to these smaller hospitals, depriving them of income from emergency-room patients and

    ..does anyone really want to finish this sentence?

    It doesn’t matter if the patients die, or suffer from more diability than they would otherwise, as long as the hospitals are healthy.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  114. They didn’t come close to doing the right thing with Eric Garner. Just checked his pulse, maybe.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  115. what all the protesters, or the organizers of the protests want, is less policing, because it interferes with certain businesses, and also, in the long run, will change the demographics of black neighborhoods – and you know what that might do to people who have cozy arrangements with governments through politicians?

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  116. 109. It’s doubletalk. I need to study it more to decrypt it.

    Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be)

  117. I just wonder who this condescending pompous political hack hangs with and it probably ain’t the rank and file. Retired LEO.

    Kevin Van riper (ba4f80)


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