Cuba: Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
To those who oppose the steps I’m announcing today, let me say that I respect your passion and share your commitment to liberty and democracy. The question is how we uphold that commitment. I do not believe we can keep doing the same thing for over five decades and expect a different result. Moreover, it does not serve America’s interests, or the Cuban people, to try to push Cuba toward collapse. Even if that worked — and it hasn’t for 50 years — we know from hard-earned experience that countries are more likely to enjoy lasting transformation if their people are not subjected to chaos. We are calling on Cuba to unleash the potential of 11 million Cubans by ending unnecessary restrictions on their political, social, and economic activities. In that spirit, we should not allow U.S. sanctions to add to the burden of Cuban citizens that we seek to help.
“In the same way that we have never demanded that the United States change its political system, we will demand respect for ours,” the president said in a televised speech.
Of course the president would never be honest about what’s really at play: closing Guantanamo:
I think Obama restored relations with Cuba because he wants to close Guantanamo. This way he can leave the prisoners in Cuba without violating US laws that prevent him from returning the dangerous prisoners to their home nations. Instead, he can leave them in Cuba and let the Castro regime deport them. –DRJ
As President Obama told Candy Crowley last night regarding Guantanamo:
“I’m going to be doing everything I can to close it,” Obama said in an interview with CNN’s Candy Crowley that aired Sunday on “State of the Union.”
“It is something that continues to inspire jihadists and extremists around the world, the fact that these folks are being held,” Obama said. “It is contrary to our values.”
Until then, the president can continue to release prisoners:
Those released this year included five Taliban to temporary custody in Qatar in exchange for the release of POW Bowe Bergdahl, the year’s most controversial release; six Arabs to Uruguay, the first to South America in the history of the detention center; the first former forever prisoner whose status was downgraded by a parole board and returned to his native Kuwait; and five men resettled in Europe.
–Dana
“It is something that continues to inspire jihadists and extremists around the world, the fact that these folks are being held,” Obama said. “It is contrary to our values.”
Jihadists are all in an Islamic Rage Boy rage over Guantanamo, but they care not a whit about Obama’s fun time drone war that is killing their family and friends from a thousand feet in the air.
JVW (60ca93) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:07 pmI do not believe we can keep doing the same thing for over five decades and expect a different result.
omg what a stupid vapid whore
our cubano loser friends have been free free free to take a different course anytime they wanted
it’s not about what YOU believe anyways – you’re just a stupid skankwhore american president
happyfeet (a037ad) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:13 pmSome comments about Cuba.
askeptic (efcf22) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:13 pmPresident Obama is stating that a lot of these restrictions are not necessary for the Communist Party to remain in power.
He’s telling the Castro brothers to look at China.
Or he could even tell them to remember Generalissimo Francisco Franco, whom Fidel Castro was close to.
In fact I think Fidel Castro became a Communist solely because he thought it was the type of dictatorshiip that had the least chance of being overthrown, As of 1960, none had ever been overthrown, except in Hungary, twice. (1919 and 1956)
Many Latin American dictators had lasted 20 or years, but then been overthrown. Castro didn’t want that to happen to him.
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:15 pmThe policy change toward Cuba is the right thing to do, but, as always, President Obama fouled up the way he’s doing it. If he had gone to Senators Ted Cruz and Bob Menendez first, and discussed it with them, he might have gotten them on board with a change in policy, and this whole thing could have gone more smoothly.
The embargo has done absolutely nothing to either help the Cuban people get rid of Communism, nor helped us after all of this time. If fifty years of embargo haven’t helped get rid of Communism, maybe something really radical like freer trade and tourism might work better.
But closing the Guantanamo prison is a wholly bad idea. We already know that around a quartert of released prisoners have returned to the battlefield, and the number might well be higher. I’m somewhat surprised that we haven’t had one of the released prisoners claim to be the one who killed an American soldier on the battlefield — not that such a claim could be proved, I suppose — but if one hasn’t done so directly, by returning to the battlefield they are making our enemies’ jobs easier, and ours harder and more dangerous.
The foreign policy Dana (f6a568) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:23 pmI thought of something with regard to this, and I wonder what others think.
I wonder, if Charlie Crist had won the Governor’s race in Florida, would Obama have moved to lift the Cuban embargo?
Am I a crazy cynical hater for wondering this?
Pious Agnostic (7eb3b0) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:24 pm29 Electoral Votes may hinge on splitting the Cubano vote.
Pious Agnostic (7eb3b0) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:25 pmA “quartet”?
askeptic (efcf22) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:27 pmDo they sing a-Capella?
Of course, I wouldn’t object in the slightest to releasing the jihadists if we had some sort of covertly implantable chip we could stick in their skulls to aid in the targeting of terrorist groups. That would be a winner!
The double-nought spy Dana (f6a568) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:34 pmAt this point, what difference does it make?
My care-o-meter is broke. Overwhelmed.
I just don’t give a ****.
He is hell bent on wreaking havoc and destruction upon
institutions which may turn out to be a necessary part of our ability
to defend ourselves. But there is no one or no group that seems
capable or willing to stop him. Therefore the only rational thing to
do is to hunker down and hope that the destruction doesn’t reach far enough
or takes more time than is left in his term to do it’s damage.
Michelle was never proud of this nation and now that she and her husband
are almost done, there’s little to be proud of left.
It would take years and dedication for any other executive to restore America
and frankly I don’t see anyone with the vision or charisma or political acumen
on the current or future scene able or willing to do so.
If we aren’t witnessing the end of America, we’re witnessing the beginning
jakee308 (f0aa61) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:35 pmof the end. (to paraphrase Winston Churchill)
Cuban Side
Remember the nights they cried
Obama movin’ to the Cuban side
legacy he tried and tried
fellow traveler cut n’ dried
R’member the nights they bled?
beaten senseless and left for dead
Ev’ry night he goes to sleep.
Lawd Almighty he’s such a creep
[Chorus]
AIy YI AIy Ya he wanna dance but his wife won’t let him
AIy YI YI AIy He wanna dance but the days are so grim
AIy YI YI Ya He wanna score but his shot’s off teh rim
AIy AIy Ya
Last night he had a dream
drinkin’ Cuban coffee with no cream
gave Raul and Fidel what they want
Smartest man? he’s no savant
[Chorus]
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:42 pmjust pretendin’… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsPu3cTdX0c&sns=em
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:44 pmHello.
Can anyone tell me if the Cuban-Americans in Florida were pro-Obama in 12 an 08?
Denver Todd (5f001f) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:51 pmI’m with the foreign policy Dana in that I think overall this is the right move, provided that we don’t go willy-nilly for propping up the Cuban government with “economic aid” and “loans.” But I’m sure the UN will now move to start throwing money that everyone’s favorite Marxist regime, and Obama won’t have the good sense or courage to tell our UN ambassador (what poor sucker is stuck with that job) to veto it. It’s the proper policy if executed correctly, but no one expects Obama to execute it correctly. Pity that.
JVW (60ca93) — 12/22/2014 @ 12:58 pmUN Amb is still Samantha Powers, aka Mrs. Cass Sunstein.
askeptic (efcf22) — 12/22/2014 @ 1:01 pm@12
Gazzer (ae5179) — 12/22/2014 @ 1:17 pmSadly Colonel, two of those three are no longer with us. Great little band though.
Yep, Gazzer, that Honeyman-Scott was a hot guitarist!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/22/2014 @ 1:28 pmOpen the gate. Let the brothers deal with them.
crazy (cde091) — 12/22/2014 @ 2:45 pmClosing Guantanamo is a whole different matter and Republicans will fight that to the end. It is a major naval base and is important in our defense of the Caribbean. Obama, of course, knows nothing about this.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 12/22/2014 @ 5:38 pmThe few people of Cuban background I know are not happy with anything that would put one additional penny in Castro’s pocket. The US can maintain sanctions forever until there is change as far as they are concerned.
And the reports I’ve heard is that human rights abuses have increased in Cuba in recent years.
If US sanctions have done little over the years because Cuba has been bailed out by the Russians and then Venezuela, just at the time those supports are gone does not seem to be a good time to remove sanctions, unless you want to through the Castros another life line.
BTW, Gov. Christie today said there is a murderer of a NJ State highway patrol officer in asylum in Cuba, and he doesn’t want one bit of relaxation of any sanctions until that person is deported for trial.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/22/2014 @ 5:40 pm14
We can only veto what goes through the Security Council. Most UN money is funnelled through agencies and voted on at the General Assembly and other fora in which dictators and corrupt counties dominate by sheer numbers.
But also note that Canada, Spain, and several other countries that usually line up on our side have been investing and trading with Cuba for a long time, and feel that if we are stupid enough to give up potential profit, that is our problem, not theirs.
On a more general note, I would say imposing the embargo was an example of Patterico’s unconstrained vision. But that does not mean lifting it now us a move towards constrained.
kishnevi (294553) — 12/22/2014 @ 5:54 pmThe killer to whom Gov Christie refers is JoAnne Chesimard, now 67 years of age. She is also known as Assata Shakur.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/cuba/article4789359.html#storylink=cpy
elissa (8d2124) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:08 pm6
kishnevi (a5d1b9) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:08 pmI do not know for sure, but I think Crist was in favor if loosening the embargo, at least.
20
Cubans seem divided by age on this. The earlier they left Cuba the more they support the embargo, but support is much weaker amon those born here. To illustrate, my immediate supervisor is about 30, and came here as a child with his family. He remarked today that he has absolutely no interest in visiting Cuba, no matter what changes take place there.
Remember that Christie is working in a state with a large Cuban community.
Last May, Crist, while still condemning the Castro regime and state oppression, discussed wanting to see the trade embargo and travel ban lifted. When a Republican he says he held the company line against the embargo, but that has changed:
Dana (8e74ce) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:38 pmHere’s another little tidbit about the convicted New Jersey cop killer who has been hiding out in Cuba. — a tidbit featuring one of our favorite rocket scientist level congresswomen.
elissa (8d2124) — 12/22/2014 @ 6:46 pmAnd of course since Chesamard was a ’70’s era domestic terrorist there’s a Bill Ayers connection too!
http://www.jammiewf.com/2013/friend-of-bill-ayers-added-to-fbis-most-wanted-list/
elissa (8d2124) — 12/22/2014 @ 7:01 pmLifting the embargo annoys me only because it’s in the context of the overall mindset of President “Goddamn America.” Simply put, he’s one of those leftists who believes a tyrannical, dictatorial Communist, because such a person is supposedly into the welfare of the common man — and provides free healthcare to the masses!! — deserves kid-glove treatment, deserves a million benefits of the doubt.
Mark (c160ec) — 12/22/2014 @ 7:18 pmOne more, what clarity!
http://youtu.be/44cH_T8-lbA
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/22/2014 @ 7:41 pmThat be Tupac’s mama…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/22/2014 @ 7:52 pm“I do not believe we can keep doing the same thing for over five decades and expect a different result.”
————–
Interesting. The very same logic could be applied with respect to the Left’s (and, Obama’s) unwavering fealty towards, and, their zealous, reflexive belief in, the infallibility of Big Government.
Guy Jones (173efd) — 12/23/2014 @ 1:07 am“I do not believe we can keep doing the same thing for over five decades and expect a different result.”
That’s something that Bill Clinton used to say.
Of course, he was lying.
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/23/2014 @ 6:27 amThanks, elissa, for the additional info.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/23/2014 @ 6:37 amI wonder if Holder had any ties or documented sympathies for the BLA.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 12/23/2014 @ 6:38 amThanks elissa. I had no idea that was Tupac’s Godmother.
I don’t share the outrage about the Common invite to the White House, despite his lyrics. I’ve been a fan since he was known as “Common Sense,” and he’s a credit to Chicago. I try to separate my enjoyment of the art from the artists’ typically vapid beliefs. Whether Dixie Chicks, Charlie Daniels, Common, Charlie Sheen, whatever. It’s a waste of outrage, IMHO.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 12/23/2014 @ 6:58 amSome have no problem whatsoever with people who rail against what used to be called “miscegenation” back in the Klan days.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:16 amI think the outrage in some circles about Common’s invite to the White House was that his Song for Assata praised and seemed to glorify a living convicted murderess and person on the FBI’s ten most wanted list. Sort of a tone deaf disconnect all around–no?
elissa (1a1817) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:16 amIt’s really a waste of money to patronize anti American, anti Freedom a-holes. IMHO.
Hoagie (4dfb34) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:20 amI seem to remember NWA’s “F#$& the Police” song. Very hip. Very edgy.
Of course, now the surviving members of that band, well, have called the police several times.
It’s all about the money.
Simon Jester (cbb38f) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:21 amIt is illegal for Cubans to have Internet access at home.
This is essentially what Alan Gross was imprisoned for. I suppose that, at worst, he expected to be caught and expelled.
He was trying to set up Internet access for the small Jewish community there, so they could be in contact with the outside world. (it was actually a U.s. government initiative)
I suppose the Vatican, being a country with an embassy, has its own unsupervised (but not necessarily unmonitored) Internet access.
Sammy Finkelman (1b38fa) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:30 amThere seems to be a negative correlation between talent and political publicism among popular entertainers. The more never-weres they are or the more has-beens they become, the more they publicize their politics. Kristofferson, Springsteen, Mellencamp… as their new stuff became suckier they became leftier.
nk (dbc370) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:31 amAnd “typically vapid beliefs” pretty much describes it, carlitos.
nk (dbc370) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:37 amInstead of confining captured terrorists at Camp X-Ray in Guantanamo, why not confine them into a brazen bull for the rest of their lives?
Michael Ejercito (45f52b) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:48 amLike I said, I separate the art from the artist. The political beliefs of an artists are not very well thought-out.
See Reese Witherspoon, Jenny McCarthy, Danny Glover, etc.
If I were the President, inviting Public Enemy or Rage Against the Machine to the White House would be cool, despite their lyrical content. Common is milquetoast compared to those guys. You may disagree, and that’s cool with me.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 12/23/2014 @ 7:57 amWhen I bought that album (on cassette), I have to admit – I thought to myself — holy crap, these guys have gone too far. Straight Outta Compton was a very uncomfortable listen to me, back in the early 90’s. Then again, Salome, Tannhauser, or Jerry Springer – the Opera follow the same mold.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 12/23/2014 @ 8:03 amWell, if the standard that we must follow is to avoid inspiring jihad, why doesn’t he just order us to convert to Islam by EO?
What a coward. He’s just going to do everything he can by EO and leave the mess for the next president. He doesn’t have the guts to face Congress, much less the tyrants of the world.
Patricia (5fc097) — 12/23/2014 @ 8:06 amEO?
carlitos (c24ed5) — 12/23/2014 @ 8:17 amAre racist beliefs like Common holds “cool with you”, carlitos? Are you down wit’ dat?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/23/2014 @ 8:18 amYes, Maybe you didn’t grow up as a black man. It probably changes your POV.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 12/23/2014 @ 8:23 amso if my late aunt, who lived in Compton from the late 40’s to ’67, experienced targeted robberies, vandalism, verbal abuse, dead bodies left behind her sporting goods store, etc., she would be justified in holding racist views against all black folks, carlitos?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 12/23/2014 @ 8:36 am